Latest / Conspiracy! The Show / The UK Spycop Scandal

Transcript

The UK Spycop Scandal · Conspiracy! The Show

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Winter in.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna check out both get at your things.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Wait, hey, everybody, welcome to Conspiracy The Show.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: I'm Adam Todd Brown. Who are you.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: I'm Laura Crawford.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: We are your fucking hosts.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: This week, someone in the comments said, I say fucking
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: too much.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: You've gotten that. You've gotten that before.
• 0:45
  Speaker 4: People have said it before, and the response is always
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: fuck you, you fucking.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Fuck yeah, funk off, fuck face.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: I'm not I'm not.
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: Like, we're not like saying it angry.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: No, fuck these.
• 0:57
  Speaker 5: Fucker you know.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: It's it's my version of uh, even though I say
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: uh a lot too an um and sometimes uh and
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: um comes out as fucking.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: I feel like, if.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Anything, we're just kind of warning people because we're probably
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: gonna use the word fuck a lot on this episode,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: because we're talking about cops who like the fuck, specifically
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: cops in England, so not like cops with guns, just
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: bullshit England cops.
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they don't need a penis metaphor. They're using their
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: actual dicks.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: They use their actual dick as a weapon.
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: Is their actual dick as a weapon, not a dick metaphor?
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: Because what's very important here, You know what I'm saying.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: We're talking about the UK spy cop scandal, which is
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: a thing that has been in the news in England
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: like as far back as like ninety seven, ninety eight.
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, spy cops, man, mom about this buying unused by cups.
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: That's the song I came up with for it.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: Spy Cops.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: That was pretty good. I saw you in your notes,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: you said you're you titled your notes the second worst
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Spy Kids movie. You're not implying Spy Kids is a
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: bad movie, are you spi kids?
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: The first one is not that bad.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: I went to see not that Bad.
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: It's not that bad.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: It's got a ninety three percent on Rotten Tomatoes. That
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: movie fucking rules.
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: That movie raps. I'm a big rocket.
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: I haven't seen it since I went to go see
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: it in middle school, so I'm biased. You know, I'm
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: a hater. I'm a young hater at heart, but this one.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Is a hater.
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: These police see I that's really bad. But I always
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: knew that. When we talked about this, I was like, Oh, yeah,
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: the UK they love spying and wire taps. I'd heard
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: some cases before that above the police and wire taps
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: and the daily mail, and it was always like what
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: member of Parliament Washod on camera saying that he's shocked.
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: His suck, you know whatever.
• 2:53
  Speaker 5: Oh.
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: I knew that they had a big issue with surveillance,
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: but I don't know this was going on.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: I know idea.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: I think people under estimate how similar the United States
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: and England are when it comes to shit like this,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Like everything we're going to talk about today, the United
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: States did also at the exact same time, just in
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: slightly different ways, and we don't even know how different.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Like I'm sure some of those co Intel pro dudes
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: did some activist fucking in their day, like.
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: I don't doubt it, like we I think it was.
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: It was Bahrenheim nine to eleven. Michael Moore had a
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: movie where he was talking about all of the post
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: nine to eleven people who were infiltrating groups like peace groups.
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: It'd be like moms for Against Law in Iraq and
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: they would just make like, you know, doves knit them
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: and it'd be like and then this SETPI agent was
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: in the group and we found out later he wasn't
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: really Dave Sanders. So I remember him saying that, and
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: remember thinking that's very bizarre that you would infiltrate peace groups,
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: but I didn't know that it was this global.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the thing about the United States. In England, they're
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: part of this group called the Five Eyes, and the
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Five Eyes is an alliance between Australia, Canada, New Zealand,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: the United Kingdom and the United States.
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: And so there's some blue eyes, right, the Blue eyes,
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: and there's some white eyes.
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: You see the whites up their eyes, you know what
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: I mean.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Well, and here's the thing that seems like a joke.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: But when you find out what this particular group is
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: doing and compare it to what the United States was
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: doing at the time, I don't think the fact that
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: they're all white nations is unimportant. I think it's very
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: fucking important.
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: They're also although the US didn't have it as extreme,
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: they're also like post colonial nations. I guess you could
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: say like third nations that had a large post colonial
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: population growing within them by the sixties that they were like,
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: well it could be a problem, you know, like with
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: the UK. Obviously they had all their former countries in
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: Caribbean and Africa. You know that people were starting to
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: go to the motherland to reap the resources, you know,
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: and that were denied them or like in the US
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: and Canada and the sixties again, yeah, a lot more
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: non white immigrants coming in, so I guess they were like,
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: oh Jesus Christ, this is a problem.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in their mind, this group that we're talking about today,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: they targeted the same people that the FBI targeted in
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: the US in the sixties and seventies, which is activists.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Like it's the exact same thing, and that's what the
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Five Eyes is. They share not only intelligence but like
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: intelligence techniques. So like if you see something happening in
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: Australia and you're like, holy shit, they're taking rights away
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: from people in Australia, it's coming here soon. Like they
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: test this shit out before it comes to the United States.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: But we do all of this same shit, and it's
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: relevant to twenty twenty because we're kind of living in
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: almost the exact same world we were in in nineteen
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: sixty eight. It's just that instead of the protests being
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: about the Vietnam War, they're about police violence. That's really
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: the only difference. And acid is harder to find, not
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: for me.
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: Daddy, Actually I know that Fell's acid on Instagram.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, we'll talk about that after the pod but to.
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: Say there are market similarities, and of course, you know,
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: like when you think about the UK and handed on
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: the US and the sixties, they were still they were
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: all kind of experiencing the same issues, which is they
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: had a large population of university students who are very
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: woke and very you know, turning into being out of
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: control and not really under the thumb of police and
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: security the way they once were. And you know, obviously
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: Richard Nixon turned a lot of people off to the state,
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: and I think in present day were seeing the same
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: thing where if people hate the president very much more
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: socially turned on gen Z whatever new hippies. But yeah,
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: see the issue is then we're not saying that since
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: nineteen sixty eight that people have been infiltrating groups. They
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: used to infiltrate groups, but they infiltrated them with informants.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: That's the difference.
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: So like they would put in they would have informants,
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: They would have a man on the inside and they
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: would pay him to get them information. But starting around
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: the late sixties, these countries like the US and Britain
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: and Canada and you know whatever, they were like, ah,
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: you know, I don't know if this is good enough
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: to get these informants, because we don't even know if
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: it's you know, steady information. We want our own guy
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: on the inside.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Right, they stopped using I mean, I'm sure they still
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: use informants, but they do. Yeah, if you can infiltrate,
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: that's way easier because the information you're gonna get is
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: going to be.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: More accurate and you can trust it because.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: It's a cop in there doing cop shit and coming
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: back to the cops and being like, BROV.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: You won't fucking believe what this bird was up to.
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: These people, they doubt will animals, can you believe it?
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: It is enough the fucking pigs, Oh my god, they
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: don't need pigs off.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: They ain't even had of a's so citroll.
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: But I mean the groups that they targeted, I think
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: I have this in my notes, but so we don't
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: will never know exactly how many groups were targeted, Right,
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: We'll never know. But the estimate that they give is
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: that it was over a thousand different political groups. Right,
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: and guess how many they found out confirmed are right wing?
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: It's oh, it's like four three, it's three. Well, I
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: feel like we're getting a little ahead of things there.
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: Just like so, if you're wondering did they spy on
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: right wing groups, they sure did, three of them.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's like I said, it's very similar to
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: what's happening in the country right now.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: The differences.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty eight, the protests were about the Vietnam War,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: and in the UK, as these protests were kicking off,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: the Home Office and the Metropolitan Police Service teamed up
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: to figure out a way to cut these protests off
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: at the knees. And what they came up with was
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: we'll just infiltrate them. We'll send cops in pretending to
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: be them and cause all kinds of chaos and we'll
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: see what happens. And for our American listeners who aren't
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: as cultured as Laura and I, I will, I feel
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: like we should explain Home Office is like the law
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: and order wing of the British government. They're like our
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Department of Justice or Homeland Security. They deal with law
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: and order, they deal with immigration shit like that. The
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Metropolitan Police Service think of them as like London's NYPD
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: if the NYPD had no jurisdiction over Manhattan, because the
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: Metropolitan Police Service they policed the thirty two boroughs of London,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: but there's one. They call it the square Mile of London.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: That part is police. They call it the City of London.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: That is policed by the much smaller and appropriately named
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: City of London Police. But everywhere else in the London
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: it's the Metropolitan Police Service. You've probably heard them referred
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: to as the met which is what we're gonna call
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: them because it's short and that's fucking awesome. Or Scotland
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Yard if you've ever heard Scotland Yard. That's who it is.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: They They're referred to as Scotland Yard because that was
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: their original headquarters. It was called Scotland Yard. But it's
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: the Metropolitan Police Service.
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it sounds like from reading this, it just to
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: me Scotland Yard always sounds like who you call if
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: someone's been kidnapped, Colt Scotland Yard on the double, cut
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: them out of hair, you know what I mean? Uh,
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: it sounds like strictly to respond in a hurry, like
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: we need Scotland Yard call them.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: See I've always I've always pictured them as like a
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: bunch of Sherlock Holmes motherfuckers.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: Yes, but they have bloodhounds. They have pipes.
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they're like, oh, Shirley's we found a body cold
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: Scotland yard and they show up in a way, is
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: this body? But you don't think of them as being
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: like the biggest problems in Britain. By the way, when
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: it comes to like problems, teen stabbings. Stabbings are out
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: of control.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, guns aren't as much of a problem in
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: other parts.
• 11:07
  Speaker 5: Of the world.
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they've like a lot of teen gangs and teen
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: boy gangs around there. There's a lot of stabbing. So
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: this is not we're talking about. These are like the
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: regular po These are the street guys. These are the like,
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: you know, you New York City cops, you beat cops.
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: You're Jeffreys, you John's, you Joe's. You're out there, you know,
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: being like hey Johnny, staying out of trouble whatever, missus Gillespie.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: How's that neet.
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: These are supposed to be these guys, they're supposed to
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: be nice guys. We're out patrolling the streets whatever, keeping
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: them safe. But they're it's a little more, it's a
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: little more to it.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: It's not just that, like the NYPD isn't just beat cops.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: They have detectives and like really high level units that
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: do really intense intelligence service type shit, and sometimes those
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: police departments collaborate with the fucking government. I think the
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: LAPD is a great example, the NYPD for sure, Like,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: when you have a police department that big as a government,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: why wouldn't you fucking collaborate with them, because all, like,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: especially if you're talking protests, those are going to be
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: the biggest in the biggest city, So of course you
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: want the fucking police on your side.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: So in nineteen.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Sixty eight, the Metropolitan Police Service, the met teamed up
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: with the Home Office and they formed this new unit
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: called the Special Operations Squad, which later became the Special
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Demonstration Squad, which sounds way more British it does.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: The Special Operations Squad.
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: Oh, I'm on the suspros, that's what I think, or
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: the SDS. But it was a very stazzy like group
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: if you understand, like you know, the comparison to East Germany.
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: So this is like imagine, imagine if this is a
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: Los Angeles that it's like the London Cops or like
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: the West Hollywood cops, but we're talking to like the LAPD,
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: like the scary police to kill everybody in like the
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: Sheriff's department.
• 12:58
  Speaker 5: That's like more of this account of that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, So.
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: We're going to talk about a lot of brit stuff.
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: We're gonna talk about MP's whatever. So they had to
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: work on They had to gather information about protests and
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: justice move so justice.
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: Is like really broad.
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: We we'll talk about that.
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: It's going to be like annal rights, socialism, environmental stuff,
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: or even like people who have been victims of violence
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: by the cops, or people who have felt like their
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: investigations might not have been thoroughly investigated by the police
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: because of I know, corruption, racism or anything. So it's a
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: huge swath of issues that they're investigating. And they did
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: this for like nearly fifty years. So you got to
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: imagine how much I don't even know how you calculate
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: how much money they probably spent on this. The yearly
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: budget must have been pentagon levels, but at least several million.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Ye wouldn't it be penton levels? Like no reason?
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: The only reason it wouldn't is because England is smaller
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: than us. But I bet in terms of budget, like
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: percentage of budget, I bet it's up there with all
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: the other craziest shit we've done, because, like you said,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: they operated for nearly fifty years and they were the
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Progress Police. That's what I think is a good name
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: for them, because all they did was any group that
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: was working on progress of any sort, environmental groups, animal
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: rights groups, like we mentioned, if a loved one was
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: killed by the police and you were thinking of having
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: someone investigate the police, they would target those people. Anyone
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: who might have caused any change to the status quo
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: is who they investigated, which I think is another good
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: reason to bring up the Five Eyes and those five
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: very very white nations that all work together and collaborate
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: on shit like this, And it's just weird how in
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: a lot of cases what they collaborate on is keeping
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: people of color oppressed. It's like these are like the
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: white supremacy police, basically, and they're not.
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: Just targeting small protest groups. I think we've all heard
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: of green Peace or most people have like at least
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: a passing familiarity to what they do. They infiltrated green
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: Peace in the eighties, which so they're like international groups
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: in some case that were infiltrated, and these are activities
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: that could be as benign as you were protesting fracking
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: near your house. If you said, man, I don't really
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: like them, I don't want them to frack have a
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: fracking project near my house, which I'm sure anyone can understand.
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: You would be investigated.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: So it's a huge.
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: Range of activities. Anything that's basically not explicitly pro government
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: or pro business makes you a suspect.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's anything that balance that threatens the current balance
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: of power in the world. That's who this group investigated.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: And we'll talk about this more in detail. But we
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: only know about this because of a whistleblower. That's like,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: had one dude not come out and talked about this,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: we would have no idea that this was happening in England.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: So who's going to be that whistleblower who comes out
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: and tells us about this happening in the United States.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: That's what I want to know. I hope it happens
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: at some point. But their misdeeds are so extensive that
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: we can't get into all of them. I'll link to
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: a bunch of articles. There's a lot of information out
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: there about this, and this is all confirmed, like it's
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: on Conspiracy the show. Because this was a conspiracy. Yeah,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: the police and the government conspired to do this, But
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: it's not a theory. It's not like we know it happened.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: It's like MK Ultra, we know it happened. Because there's
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: so much to cover, we're going to focus on I
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: have in the notes too. But actually three of their
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: biggest crimes basically or abuses of.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: Power gainst humanity.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Entering into sexual sometimes child bearing relationships with activists they
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: were spying on. Two spying on and attempting to discredit
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: families of victims of police or racial violence. And three
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: stealing the identities of dead children, which they did so much.
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: If I can add just a little fourth one, which
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: is covering up information that could have led to people
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: being freed or not prosecuted for crimes because it would
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: have revealed their position as spies.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: They would even sometimes go to court in their undercover
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: cop personas like they would go to court not as cops.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: They'd be like, Hey, I'm just regular Joe Fish and
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Chips here and I'm here to testify, and they would
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: send innocent people to prison.
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: I also think they encouraged people to far more radical
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: action than they would have, which caused a lot of
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: people to get into more trouble than they would have
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: probably before.
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: But that's more speculative.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Well it's speculative, but it's a thing that from history
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: we know happens, Like the FBI does that in the
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: United States, there were all those cases is where they
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: would infiltrate a group and be like, want to build
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: a bomb, and then they would bring all this bomb
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: making equipment and they would help these people assemble a
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: bomb and then they'd go, all right, you're under arrest
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: for building that bomb, and it's like, thanks for keeping
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: us safe. That was really a good expenditure of federal
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: tax dollars.
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this is the worst episode, mister Wizard ever. You
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: want to build a bomb.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Kids in New York at least once, I think in Buffalo.
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: So excessive radicalization.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So let's talk about Stephen Lawrence. Stephen Lawrence was
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: a black teen who was very brutally and publicly murdered
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: by a group of white teens I believe in nineteen
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: ninety three. And the murder and the subsequent investigation into
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: that murder revealed you might want to sit down for
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: this systemic racism within the Metropolitan Police service, and just
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: kind of in the UK in general, there were five
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: teens who were tried and acquitted despite a friend of
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Lawrence who was there when the murder happened, Dwayne Brooks,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: he identified all five of them in court, and all
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: five of these kids still were acquitted, And there were
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: all these allegations that the met helped not only kind
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: of derail the investigation because they barely investigated it at first,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: and so people were like, hey, are you going to
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: fucking look into that kid who got stabbed at a
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: bus stop? And then when they did look into it,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: it seemed like they were kind of shielding the teens
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: who did it from being prosecuted, like they just tried
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: to sort of hide it all, and it culminates in
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: these five teens getting acquitted, and people were so outraged.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: The Daily Mail in nineteen ninety seven published photos of
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: all five of these kids under a headline that just
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: said murderers. The male accuses these men of killing. If
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: we are wrong, let them sue us. None of them
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: ever sued, which I feel like is always like we
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: don't take that into account enough in the United States,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: But like, why hasn't Courtney Love sued Tom Grant, the
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: private investigator who's been saying for like twenty years now
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: that she was involved in the murder of Kurt Cobain.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Like you would think you'd not want someone out there
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: spreading that kind of information.
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: I think she did try to press legal action in
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: the case the film court and Courtney, if I'm not wrong,
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: but I don't know that definitively. But no, she's not
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: pursued every form of action because if she did, then
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: I would imagine she would have to prove that she
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: didn't in some form of another, you know what I mean, Right, Yeah,
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: I don't know if she can legally definitively prove that,
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: but yeah, like yeah, it just stands the reason. It's like, well,
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: why did you come out? But no, I mean I'm
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: sure she's done something, or she might have even offered
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: him like a private settlement.
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: I don't know. Nothing would surprise me. She's a very
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: violent Buddhist.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Or there's a comedian right now who constantly he
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: used to work with Donald Trump on the Miss ten
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: USA pageant and I think The Apprentice also, And he's
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: also a comedian, and he's got like a five minute,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: very detailed bit about how Donald Trump crushes up and
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: snorts adderall ooh, and he's like, if I'm lying, sue me.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Trump's never sued him. And Trump does seem like he
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: maybe snorts adderall oh, oh, of.
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: Course, yeah, he definitely does. Oh yeah, for real, that's
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: always what I think, my lot. Oh, you were correct though.
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: In the year that Stephen Lawrence has killed in the
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: race attack, it was nineteen ninety three, and just looks
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: it up.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah it was.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: It was ninety three, and then this acquittal happens in
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven. And after that acquittal they open an
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: inquiry into this investigation. Yeah, and that's kind of what
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: kicks off the spy cop scandal.
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: So the judge concluded that I just loved this description
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: that the investigation and marred by a combination of professional incompetence,
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: institutional racism, and a failure of leadership. That's like a
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: judge who works for the system, when I look at
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: this case, looks like you, guys, kind a smudge of
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: institutional racism here and a lot of competence.
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: What a scathing description.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: What I like is how England managed to take this
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: inquiry into a heinous racial crime and still find a
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: way to use it to strip the people of England
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: of a little bit more of their rights, but in
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: a way that the people of England were like, yeah,
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: fucking do it please. Because what happens as a result
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: of this inquiry is they changed the law to where
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: if you've been tried for murder and acquitted, you can
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: be tried again, which that's a huge, huge deal. They
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: eliminated double jets in the UK over this case, and
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: two of the people who attacked Stephen Lawrence, David Norris
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: and Neil a court they were tried again and charged
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: and convicted.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: So on the one hand, it's like, cool, are you
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: gonna put double jeopardy back in place?
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: Or is that just gone forever?
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: This was this is an extraordinary case, extraordinary legal change.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: One of the things that comes out of this inquiry
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: is not only did the police bungle this investigation horribly,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: but after Stephen Lawrence was killed, they sent a Metropolitan
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: Police Service officer from this SDS unit, the Special Demonstration Unit,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: to infiltrate not only groups that were fighting for justice
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: for Stephen Lawrence, but also his fucking family. They spied
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: on his family with the intent of digging up dirt
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: that they could use to smear them and discredit them.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: And this isn't like, this isn't even a case of
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: the police killing a black person. This was just a
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: bunch of fucking racists that killed a kid at a
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: bus stop. And the police are like, why is that
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: family bitchin go find out everything you can about them
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: so we can discredit them in public.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: It's nuts.
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: So his parents are a Doreen and Nevil Lawrence, and
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: they were just regular, not very political people, and they well,
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: it's like in terms of what info, they're like, well,
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: you know, the relationships falling apart, and they're just keeping
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: it together for the camera as well. They investigate their
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: son's murder and it's like, why the fuck does the
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: government need to know that?
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well they also spied on Dwayne Brooks, the other
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: teen who was there when Stephen Lawrence was murdered and
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: who witnessed it and who testified to the identities of
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: these five attackers in court. They fucking spied on him too.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: There was a cop named David Hagen who was responsible
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: for spying on him. Uh Anthony Lewis. He spied on
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: the parents and the family and the only reason we
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: know about this is because the third cop, a guy
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: named Peter Francis, eventually came forward as a whistleblower and
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: he admitted that all three of them were tasked with
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: collecting any and all dirt they could on the family,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: on Dwayne Brooks and any groups that supported him, and
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: then they passed that information onto their superiors. Even Peter
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Francis was like, I don't know what they did with
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: that intelligence. Who knows, Like we just collected it and
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: gave it to them. And I don't think he was
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: saying that in a I'm just doing my job kind
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: of way. I think he was saying it in a
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: holy shit, I wonder what they did with that. And
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: the SDS also carried out similar investigations into the families
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: and associates of Ricky Real, who was another victim of
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: racist violence in London, and Jean Charles Jean Charles Domnace.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: He's a Brazilian man who was killed by Metropolitan Police
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: after they mistook him for a suspect.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: In a crime he had nothing to do with.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: So that is an obvious abuse of power like that
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: is not what you expect from the government and police
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: force that is ostensibly supposed to be protecting you.
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: It's horrifying.
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: And the fact is, all of these revelations this case
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: came out in like twenty fourteen, So this murder happened
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: nineteen ninety three, and his parents have had to live
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: with this. You know, obviously they still live with it.
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: They're not very old, they're not like old people, and
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: they didn't get any sort of justice, not really, I
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: mean total completion about what was going on until twenty fourteen,
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: and so that's I don't know, it's just mind boggling
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: that they had to go through this and find this
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: out later. So they have to then in their minds
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: go over everyone they met around the time that they
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: were trying to get justice for their son and think, oh,
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: I wonder if it was that guy. I wonder iful
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: z that guy would if this friend talked to him.
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: So it craates a sense paranoia that you're never done
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: with the psychological trauma finding that out is something you
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: can never really compensate someone for. And what bother me
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: is the government's investigation of it in twenty fourteen. The
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: Teresa May ordered still concludes like, oh, he was investday
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: in the campaign, their campaign, and it's like it's the family.
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: They keep acting like they have. It's like it's not
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: like a campaign to run someone fucking office.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: These are these people.
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: It's just it's so they're so detached. They still refuse
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: to fully engage in the issue.
• 27:32
  Speaker 5: You know what I mean.
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: They're still distancing the stuff. Oh you investay in the campaign. No,
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: you're investigating individuals. So they still have not really come
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: around to, you know, accepting their role in this or
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: the damage that it's done, or how inappropriate it is.
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: They're like, no, they were just looking at the organization.
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: It seems to me like it's part of a psychological
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: experiment in a sense, because think about it like this.
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: It's like it's like the police are sort of saying, well,
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: when a racial murder happens, are there patterns that we
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: can pred that a family will go through, and can
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: we take certain actions that will keep them from campaigning
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: at a certain point, or what can we do police
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: wise to get them to abandon campaigns once they get started,
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: you know what I mean? Because it seems like there's
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: just like running experiments with these families because they know
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: what's going to keep happening. So they're trying to think
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: how it's a best silence.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what you mentioned about them having to play back
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: all the people they met during this time. I think that, like,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: if you are a person doing anything even sort of
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: radical or progressive, don't underestimate the fact that you should
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: be very suspicious when new people show up in your life.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Like if someone just shows up out of the blue,
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: really enthusiastically wanting to help, and you're like, where did
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: you come from? You have every reason to be suspicious
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: because that is what the fucking government and law enforcement does.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: They send spies to infiltrate shit. And I don't think
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: that there's any like what this is also a good
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: example of, is there's no group small enough that they
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: won't show up and see what you're up to.
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: It's true as life advice, I would say, especially if
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: you're a young person and something like this happens when
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: you're in a group, be very wary.
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: But also when you go to college.
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: Or whatever, if you meet people who are like, oh
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: my god, come to this group. It's so amazing, and
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: they're way too enthusiastically like you, way too much, you
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: might be in a fucking cult. Because I knew people
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: who went to college with who wound up in yoga
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: cults and stuff like that, or I was just watching
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: some of the evxium today. If someone is way too
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: kind to you too fast, beginning you in the group,
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: there's nothing good that's going to come from it. Comparing
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: to you. Pretty much, it's a scam. You're being scammed.
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: People are out to scam you. You're not paranoid.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: One of the side effects of that eventual inquiry into
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: the handling of the Stephen Lawrence case was that some
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: of the undercover aliases of these cops started coming out,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: and as they did, there were women who were like, wait,
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: I did guy. Some of them were like I dated
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: that guy for years, and some of them were like
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: that's the father of my children. And what ends up
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: happening is all these women in the UK find out
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: they had been in long term, committed relationships with what
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: turned out to be undercover cops pretending to be someone else.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: It's the kind of shit you see on the television
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: show The Americans all the time, but those are spies.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Like it's one thing if a government is doing that
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: to another government, like that's just that's just world espionage. Baby, Like,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: if you're in Russia and hooking up with a random
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: woman at the bar and you work for a big
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: tech firm, you're an idiot, right, you are a fucking
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: idiot and you're about to at best get your intellectual
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: property stolen. But you don't do it to your own citizens,
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: Like that is such a line to cross. And that's
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: what they did in England, Like they would not only
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: infiltrate these groups, but they would form actual sexual romantic relationships,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: sometimes have kids with women, and then just fucking disappear.
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: You notice it's never.
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: It's never.
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: They never are like well you called big athursy more Australian. Sorry,
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: They're never like mo, you gotta blow with God. He's
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: big of the Amal Liberation for honest, they never make
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: anyone be gay that I know of. I do love that.
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: That that's always like, oh no, I had a bang
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: in twenty two year old woman.
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: Oh no.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: Eventually every law enforcement agency in the world came around
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: to the fact that, oh, we should hire everyone, like
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: we shouldn't just like at one point the FBI only
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: hired white people, and like, good luck, fucking infiltrate in
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: the Black panthers, if you only have white agents. That's
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: why they had to use informants. But eventually they were like, oh,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: we can hire black people too, and then they can
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: go do some infiltrating. Yeah, and there is absolutely no
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: way women didn't enter into that equation at some point.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: I guarantee you there are in women cops infiltrating progressive
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: groups all the time.
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: Haven't been exposed yet in this case, it seems like
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: it's a bunch as scuzzy dudes. But yeah, they did
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: do it, and I would like to say too it.
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: But the people who they targeted or who were being investigated,
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: these were not people who this was their only thing
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: they did. Usually these people were volunteers, part time volunteers
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: at some of these groups. They had wheeler jobs. They
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: weren't living an underground bunker. It was weather underground. They
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: weren't an isis. They didn't like all shave their heads
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: or whatever. I mean, they were pretty normal people.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: There's one instance where a guy takes a girlfriend and
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: then has the police raid her house just because he
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: knew it would make him look more important to the
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: people he was trying to infiltrate, right, Like imagine being
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: that woman and finding that out, and it's like, I
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: loved this dude.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: It's like the dentist system.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he had the fucking police raid my house just
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: so he like. It's fucking sociopathic, is what it is.
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: Like.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: I get that all of these dudes are like, oh,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: I was just doing my job.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Like, motherfucker.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: The Nazis were just doing their job. That doesn't mean
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: they are not complicit in what happened, and it doesn't
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: mean they're off the hook morally.
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: Also, you applied for that job. It wasn't boor You
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: weren't drafted into the police service, right. You chose to
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: become a cop, and you chose to become an undercover cop,
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: and you chose to take that assignment. And I don't
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: think they told you you have to fuck Brandy. I
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: think that kind of chose who they wanted, right For
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: the most part, I think it was just kind of
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: like everyone's open season, and they could have just been
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: friends with people and found out the same. I don't
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: know what information you get inside a woman's vagina, What
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: state secrets are hidden up in someone's cervix?
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: You tell me, I mean, there might be some up there.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: I'm not a doctor. So these people, these women usually
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: who were targeted in these greens, It starts in the
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: late sixties. A lot of these relationships that we're going
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: to talk about that were were fieled are in the eighties,
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: and it's when it was mostly I think, focusing on
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: environmental groups and animal rights activists, you know, the big scaries, right.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: The people that are really a threat to society. Yeah.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: One example is a guy named Mark Bob Robinson, which
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: right off the bat, we're kind of nickname is Bob.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: That's fucking stupid.
• 34:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: He was an SDS agent who in nineteen eighty three
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: befriended a woman named Charlotte and shortly thereafter became her
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: first long term boyfriend ever. Except Bob Robinson was just
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: his cop name. And I don't know if we've ever
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: figured out this guy's real name. Well, we'll get to
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: that part later, but this is a quote from Charlotte.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: He told me that he worked as a gardener in
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: North London. Wherever I turned, he was there trying to
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: make himself useful, trying to get my attention. And then
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: a friend of Charlotte's comes in with another quote. One
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: day Bob wasn't there, and then he was everywhere. I'm
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: telling you, people listening to this at home, when Bob
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: Robinson shows up at your door, fucking send him packing.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Be very suspicious all the time. So as their relationship progressed,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Bob started pushing Charlotte toward more radical activities and groups,
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: all with the aim of eventually infiltrating the intensely secretive
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: and hardcore animal rights group called the Animal Liberation Front ALF.
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: Will we that's kind of a group that you know,
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: if you've seen what is it twenty eight days later,
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: remember at the beginning of that, who they're not parroting.
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: I guess that's who that those characters are based on.
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: Those people who are like, we need to let him
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: out of the lab, you know, like you know, yeah,
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: people who let out lab animals, people who throw buckets
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: of red paint on people who were for That's who
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: they're gonna talking about when they say animal liberation from
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: Those people actually are kind of hardcore. I don't think
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: they straight up like slit anyone's throat or impregnated someone
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: and then left them their hardcore Well, no.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: I think the thing they were worried about then is
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: the same thing we're worried about now, which is, well,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: what if they hurt buildings exactly?
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: What if they blow up buildings?
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: They didn't want to have them.
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: Do you remember there was this It was on the
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: California ballot and change things like cage laws for birds
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: and stuff like chickens. We like, yeah, that was on
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: the ballot her, But they don't want that. They don't
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: want you to vote on what kind of cage shantems
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: can be and God forbid.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it's it's again, any threat to the current
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: balance of power where corporations work with the government to
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: keep everyone oppressed. Yeah, that's what this unit was fighting for.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: They were fighting for the man, right like the man.
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: And you got to consider also that the UK in
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: the nineties had that major, major pr scandal and you
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: know everything else with mad cow disease which almost brought
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: Oprah town if you could imagine, I mean, her whole
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: court case and everything with like the Beef Farmers of
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: America where the fuck it was Texas beefman or whatever,
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: and they suit her because she was like, oh my god,
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: I'm scared. That's how strong the beat industry. The meat
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: industry almost took out Oprah.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: So this guy also, Bob Robinson also befriended a guy
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: named Jeff Shepherd as part of his attempt to infiltrate
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: the Animal Liberation Front. This is a quote from Jeff Shepherd.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: I believed in him and I liked him. I thought
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: he was a friend of mine. Have you ever seen
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: Jesse Ventura's conspiracy show?
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: Yes?
• 37:29
  Speaker 5: Yes?
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Do you remember the episode where he talks about his
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: first meeting with the CIA after he was elected governor
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: of Minnesota.
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: I do not, But he was like, I met with
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: this CIA. They talked to me about being governor of Minnesota.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: I got He was like, here's the thing about him.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: They look like your neighbors. Like you have an image
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: in your head of what the CIA looks like, and
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: it's wrong. What these undercover motherfuckers look like. Are your
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: or your friend or the fucking cashier at the corner store.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: You will not notice the CIA or any group the
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: fucking SDS. You're not gonna notice them on site. You're
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: not gonna look at them and go, oh, you're a fed.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: They're good at what they do. Correct In nineteen eighty five,
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Bob Robinson, who was actually married with kids, had a
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: child with Charlotte.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: This is a quote from her.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Bob was there by my side through the fourteen hours
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: of labor. He seemed to be basalted with the baby.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: He was a great dad, and I had no reason
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: to believe that our son was not his first was
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: not his first child. I didn't realize then that he
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: was already married with two other children. This is one
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: of four secret relationships this motherfucker entered into while he
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: was an SDS agent.
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: Do you think he was secret to his wife and
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: his family too, his kids? Do you think like his
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: friends knew what he was doing, Like his friends who
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: were friends with him and in his cop persona.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine he would have told too many people,
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: like because he kept this thing with Charlotte going by,
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: making excuses about having to go do gardening jobs or
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: visit his sick father. Yeah, so that's way easier when
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: your family already knows you're a copy and you can
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: just be like, I'm on a fucking deep cover assignment
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: for the next five days. Because she said he spent
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: five days of the week with her.
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what gets me because he so he has
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: his wife and kiss do he thinks she's like, hey,
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: do you have another family where she's he's like baby
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: puke on him.
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: Or she's like, hey, why do you smell like a baby?
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: You know, well, I mean she might have asked questions,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: but in that situation, all he's got to say is
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: it's a work thing.
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: Well, what's wild about this is that this whole experience
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: of info coming out is also traumatizing his family, his
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: cop family. I'm gonna call him his cop family, Like
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: they're a family of cops, A baby cop, a brother cop,
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: sister cop.
• 40:00
  Speaker 5: Anyway, So yeah, so.
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: It's traumatizing to them too to be like, oh my god,
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: my dad was this person doing these horrible things all
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: these years and I had no idea what a nightmare.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: But here's the thing.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: Does his family even know, Like we don't. I don't
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: think we know Bob Robinson's real identity. We know some
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: of these cops real names by now, but not all
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: of them. That's that's still a really big sticking point
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: with this. So how would his family even know, like
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: unless they I guess some of these women would have
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: had pictures or something to show the media and maybe
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: the family would notice it that way, but otherwise, like
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: he's not gonna fucking like, no cop is going home
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: and telling his family about all the dirt he's doing
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: on the job, Like, oh, honey, you won't believe all
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: the cocaine I stole out of this guy's trunk today.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: What a great day at work. Like he's a fucking cop,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: He's an asshole. He probably didn't even talk to his
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: goddamn wife. He probably had another family on the side
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: that he wasn't spying on, Like he's a fucking cop
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: who knows it depravity.
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: I don't have the depravometer, which just like we're like
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: a sore written penis goes up and down.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Two of those relationships he was in were long lasting
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: and serious, and he ended them both by sending a
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: letter postmark from Spain saying he was never coming back.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: Like they these dudes not only infiltrated these women who
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: were activists, you know, in an attempt to infiltrate the
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: groups they were associated with, but they followed the same
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: playbook where they would get in and get really deep
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: in and once they had like all the information they
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: thought they were gonna get they would start like kind
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: of provoking the woman to try and get her to
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: end the relationship, and if that didn't work, they would
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: pretend they were having like a breakdown, and then they
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: would just go to another country, send a letter and
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: they would say, oh, you can come if you want.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: But like one guy sent his letter from South Africa,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: so the woman's not going to be like, oh, yeah,
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: I He'll pick up and move to South Africa with
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: this lunatic who just deserted me. So it was like
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: a cover so they could like end it in a
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: way that seemed realistic, right. And meanwhile, one these women
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: are just fucking devastated before they even know that the
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: person they were dating as a cop.
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: Oh of course, I mean, yeah, they're shattered. They've been
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: living with these men, they're their partner. They are deeply
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: entrenched in their political life and their social life and
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: their friend life and their romantical life. Yeah, it's it's
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: as horrible as you can imagine. It could be the
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: only thing that comes close to this which I can
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: imagine in terms of feeling as bad about this is.
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: I think I mentioned this on the show before, but
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: Harry Belafonte found out that the FBI had an agent
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: pretending to be a psychiatrist that treated him and his
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: wife for years and recorded him. They turn out his
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: psychiatrist was an FBI agent, So yeah, that level of
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: intrusion is definitely psychologically damaging.
• 42:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah, for these poor women. Yikes.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: And also in the cases of the relationships that produce children.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: There are a couple of children whose father just disappeared
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: into the night. Like, that's real psychological damage that they
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: are doing to people, all in the name of fucking
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: stamping out animal rights activists. It's so fucking egregious. Yeah,
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: it's insane.
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this woman, Charlotte, I mean, she eventually tried to
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: track him down just to get some basic kind of
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: child support, because you're also thinking he's they're leading these
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: women with no support and no means to get support.
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: But she couldn't find them because his identity was not
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: his identity, because he didn't exist, so of course he
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: can't find him in Spain. What's also funny about this
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: to me is like they're in Spain, which is like
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: if you were in the US, and so I was like,
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: and he looked in Florida, So I was like, oh
• 43:41
  Speaker 4: my god, I gotta go to Saskatchewan. I can never
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: see you again. It's like Spain and the UK aren't
• 43:48
  Speaker 4: that far away actually, but anyway, are I digress?
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Spain is just a vacation spot if you live
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: in the UK. I'm surprised she didn't go looking.
• 43:55
  Speaker 5: For him exactly.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Let's go to a beez Abrove.
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, mageloop.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: Not only is Bob Lambert known to have done all
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: of these things, he's also suspected of planting an incendiary
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: device that damaged a London department store, a crime that
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: another activist was jailed for. He also co wrote this
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: really famous London Green peace leaflet that was really disparaging
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: toward McDonald's. And because England's libel laws are the way
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: they are, like, it's really easy to sue someone for
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: libel in England, McDonald's was like, you know what, fuck it,
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: We're gonna sue him, and let's see if they just
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: they're probably just gonna apologize and withdraw it because they
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: can't fight us. And two of these fucking activists were like,
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: yeah we can. We'll we'll make this a fucking court case.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: And it turned into like they call it the McLibel case.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: It was one of the biggest cases in England. And
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: Bob rob Vinson wrote the leaflet that started that, or
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: co wrote it. And then they sent another agent in
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: who became the boyfriend of one of the women who
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: was the activist fighting McDonald's, So one of the two
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: activists who actually stood up to McDonald's. They were able
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: to send someone in and infiltrate that fucking group. That's insane.
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: It's a really interesting case, the McLibel lawsuit. I was
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: just watching it's weird, like four or five days ago.
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: A lot a video on it on I like the
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: cy called business Blades. It's this YouTuber makes it. He's
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: from the UK. But it's an interesting case, one of
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: the few cases where regular people actually did sort of
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: win a case against McDonald's, you know. But it took
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: a very long time. It took multiple cases. It was
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: not over quickly. This was a legal slog. It was
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: a horrible case for everyone involved. It took up like
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: their whole lives. Yeah, because McDonald's was not going to
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: give up and all. But when we talk about it,
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: I don't know if it's clear what we're saying. There's
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: a group that stood outside of the McDonald's restaurant in
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: London and handed out leaflets exposing them for, you know,
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: being damaged into the environment and being generally bad for
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: the planet. That's all they did. They didn't burn down
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: to McDonald's, they didn't kidnap at McDonald's employee, they didn't
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: throw a bucket of blood at the at the you know,
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: window or whatever.
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: They didn't fucking actually, they didn't even.
• 46:16
  Speaker 5: Step foot inside the McDonald's.
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: They were outside the building.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: But Bob Lambert had to know how McDonald's would react.
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: Oh no, he knew.
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: I'm just saying, if your terms like side, like, this
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: is how hard McDonald's reacted, and this is what they
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: were doing, standing.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: Out like that's not I don't give a shit about
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: what McDonald's did. Like we'll talk about their crimes at
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: another time. But you know, Bob Lambert knew McDonald's would
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: react like that, and he's like, Bruv, this is how
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: we're gonna squash this group. I'm gonna write this leaflet,
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: We're gonna stand in front of McDonald's and hand it out.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: McDonald's will sue and these motherfuckers will be done. And
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: they were not done, so they had to send another
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: cop to infiltrate the two activists that decide to stand
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: up to McDonald's insanity.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: God damn. The woman involved in that McLibel lawsuit, her
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: name was.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: Helen Steele and she was infiltrated by a guy named
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: John Dines. That's his real name. We know his real name.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: And he struck up a long term relationship with her,
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: ended it in much the same way, except he's the
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: one who went to South Africa and sent his letter.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: This is a quote from her. He said he wanted
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: to spend the rest of his life with me. In
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: a short space of time, I fell absolutely madly in
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: love with him in a way I had never fallen
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: in love with anyone before or since.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: And here's a thing like it.
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: Seems I'm chuckleye, but I'm closing my eyes because it's
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: so painful.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: Well, what you also have to take into account is
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: it's not like they're just hoping these agents are good
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: with women. They're gonna be trained on that shit Like
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: pick up artists are a thing, and some of them
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: do a lot of fucking. And there is undoubtedly any
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: number of techniques that federal law enforcement agencies know and
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: can employ when it comes to trying to do shit
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: like this, like you're not You're gonna send the right
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: man for the job when it comes to befriending Helen Steele,
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: and he's gonna know what the fuck to say to
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: Helen Steele to get to her heart. And that's obviously
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: what happened, and that's what makes it so much crazier.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: Like the level to which they get involved with these women.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know how any government agency could have been like,
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: this is good now, this is what we should be doing.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: This seems right. No way are people gonna find out
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: about this someday.
• 48:42
  Speaker 4: I just don't see how it makes sense from a
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: budgetary's perspective. I think it's a horrible use of resources.
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: It's what I come down to on this. I just
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: don't know what fucking high grade information you're getting from
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: Helen Steel that you need to do this tour Blake, Yeah,
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: you know, you know, what are you really getting out
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: of the stable anyway?
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: But yeah, So.
• 49:03
  Speaker 4: If you think that you could not be made to
• 49:06
  Speaker 4: fall in love with a government agent, I think you're wrong.
• 49:08
  Speaker 5: I think we all could.
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: I mean, there's obviously how to win friends and influence
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: people is not a best selling book for no fucking reason, right, right, right,
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: These techniques work because it's study, because people are fairly simple,
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: and you know, love bombing and all that shit, and
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: Tomkruse people still join Scientology Adam people still join.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: So so his alias also love these aliens, is John Barker, who.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: Right, And that's where, against all odds, the story gets
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: even fucking crazier because Helen Steele decides to go look
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: for John Barker, who is John Dines. His undercover alias
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: was John Barker, And at one point she actually finds
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: his birth certificate that sure enough matches up with his story,
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: which was that he was born I forget in what
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: part of England, and it all matches. But then she
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: checks death right and realizes John Barker is a kid
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: who died of leukemia at the age of eight. Yes,
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: and that produces another scandal. From this situation, it turns
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: out that was where most SDS identities, at least early on,
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: were coming from. It like right up until they started
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: digitizing death records. Like up to that point, every SDS
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: fake identity was an identity they stole from a dead child,
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: a dead child that still had a family out there.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: Like one of the things Helen Steele brings up that
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: I didn't put in the notes is she said, I'm
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: so glad I never found John Barker's parents, because imagine
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: if they got that phone call where some woman is
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: calling you you have every reason to believe your son
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: died at the age of eight, and now out of
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: the blue, this woman's like, your son's a piece of shit,
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: who got me pregnant and moved to fucking South Africa.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: So she's like, she has said that she's very glad
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: she never found the parents because that would have fucking
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: traumatized them. And it did traumatize all these parents because
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: they're like, well, my kid died, and now you're using
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: them to fucking get active as pregnant and bring down
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: peace groups.
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: Well, it's also disgusting hypocrisy.
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: Right, we're fighting crime by stealing the social security numbers and.
• 51:23
  Speaker 5: Names of children.
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: They're stealing them.
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: They don't have the permission from these parents. It's theft.
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: They're committing identity theft. They're constructing new identities. They are
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: thieving the legacy, the names, the home plate, the hometowns.
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: They're stealing this data from these people, They're stealing an identity,
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: they're committing mass fraud. Not to mention, I mean it's
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: one of the women in these cases described it as
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: being raped by the state, and that's not wrong.
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: Like, if you were to tell me they were killing
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: the kids so they could steal the identities, I'd be like, yeah,
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: I believe that too. What they figured out a way
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: to give John Barker leukemia? Sure, mk ultra was a thing,
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: by then, why not.
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: I mean, people who put on the badge and gun,
• 52:02
  Speaker 4: I think you have a dignity as low as the
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: Marianna's trench.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: So whatever, right, it's believe they stole the identities of
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: more than eighty dead children and use them to issue
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: passports in IDs for SDS agents. One SDS officer who
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: participated in this using the alias identity of a dead
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: child named John Black, said the operation was almost stossy
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: like which Laura mentioned earlier. This is a quote from him.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: He said, Well, first off, he said SDS officers would
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: even go so far as to visit the childhood home
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: and hometown of these dead kids so they could bolster
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: their cover.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: This is a quote.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: It's those little details that really matter. The weird smell
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: coming out of the drain that's been broken for years,
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: the location of the corner post office, the number of
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: the bust you get to go from one place to another.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: That is the level of detail and investigation that's going
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: into just the dead kid part of this fucking scandal.
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: So imagine the effort and resources they're putting into infiltrating
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: these groups and convincing these women that they are in
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: an actual loving relationship.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: It's mind blowing. Like the scope of this is bonkers,
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: and it's so much the time, and we're.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: Just talking about London. We're just talking about London, one country. No,
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: we're talking about one city in England. There is no
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: doubt that this happened. One of the things that the
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: groups that are fighting for more information about this to
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: come out, one of the things they want is for
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: the investigation to extend to Scotland, because it's assumed this
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: happened a bunch in Scotland also, where there was also
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: tons of yeah protests.
• 53:48
  Speaker 4: It's like a crime being committed in the Connecticut and
• 53:50
  Speaker 4: you want to go to Rhode Island to investigate a
• 53:52
  Speaker 4: little further, it's not that bad anyway. So the problem,
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: the real problem with this too is also, I mean
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: we keep bringing this up, is the full scale of
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: this has not been revealed.
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: We know a bit, we know a few of the.
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: Groups, we know a few of the names, and only
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: in the last ten years or so for the most part,
• 54:11
  Speaker 4: you know what I mean. And these people are still
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: relatively young, the people who are victims, they're still relatively
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: young people, and they're probably going to spend their whole
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: lives fighting to get this information out right.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's one of those things that, like we
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: said at the beginning, it's been in the news like
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: this is. I only heard about it because someone on
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: the Young Pop's discord posted it in a conspiracy thread
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: and was like, hey, you should talk.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: About this, And that's how I found out about this.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: It took someone actually like hand delivering this information to me.
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: But it's been in the news in the UK for
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: since the late nineties. So it's one of those things that,
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: it seems, at least from my looking into it, that
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: sort of falls in and out of the news and
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: people like care about it for a while and they're like,
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: oh what whatever, happened with that? Do yeah, did we
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: ever get all those cops names? And it's like, no,
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: we didn't.
• 55:05
  Speaker 4: We're talking about in twenty eleven, this guy who was
• 55:07
  Speaker 4: his member of green Peace and he had been filtrated
• 55:09
  Speaker 4: in the group and he got confronted by his old
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: members of his green Peace group when you're speaking at
• 55:15
  Speaker 4: a conference and they're like.
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: Hey, Bob, what the fuck? So in some of.
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: These cases, it's taken very brave people in small cases
• 55:25
  Speaker 4: to go up and confront individuals like how about how
• 55:29
  Speaker 4: brave you have to be?
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Bob Robinson went on like lecture tours in London
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: after this, and you're right. Eventually one of the groups
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: was like, Bruv, you're the guy that fucking was part
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: of my group?
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and like are you a cop?
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: And yeah, he's a cop. He's a cop.
• 55:47
  Speaker 4: Can you imagine finding out that some guy you were
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: in a group with is actually somebody else? They must
• 55:51
  Speaker 4: have felt like they were losing their goddamn minds. And
• 55:53
  Speaker 4: it took him two years. Even after that, I would
• 55:55
  Speaker 4: need two eleven. It took him two years to actually
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: admit that he had been in four fake relationships and
• 56:01
  Speaker 4: he said that he made serious mistakes that he should
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: regret and.
• 56:05
  Speaker 5: Always will do.
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: What the fuck does that mean?
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Thanks, that apology really helps John.
• 56:11
  Speaker 4: What a mistake, What a horrible mistake I made over years.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: And what a hero to admit his mistakes. You know what,
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: we're not even putting this episode out. Everything's fixed, it's fine,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: but it's not fine. And it's really interesting how this
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: came roaring back into the public consciousness In London in
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, fucking UK cosmetics company Lush posted an article
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: on their website called Spy Cops Scandal Why police spying
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: on campaigning citizens should be exposed, which is like if
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: fucking Goop took down all their vagina egg listings and
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: just put up a fucking article about police brutality, Like
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: that's kind of what happened.
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: It's weirder than that.
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: It's like, okay, it's like a bedpath and beyond was
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: subtly like why fluoride if you're drinking water eating your
• 57:06
  Speaker 4: brain or something like that, or like like Blush is
• 57:10
  Speaker 4: for people who might not know offhand. They're the company
• 57:13
  Speaker 4: they make bath bombs, so those colorful bombs that not bombs,
• 57:18
  Speaker 4: colorful collections of essentialis that you put in a bath
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: and they sort of fizz and stuff.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: They're a huge cosmetics company. They make all kinds of
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: shit that the article mentioned bath bombs.
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: But yeah, I had a friend who used to work
• 57:28
  Speaker 4: for them and she told me a lot about the
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: company and yees, So it's kind of how like yeah,
• 57:32
  Speaker 4: like how Ben and Jerry's is very wildly supportive of
• 57:36
  Speaker 4: the Black Lives Matter movement and correcting a justice. The
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: Blush is the Ben and Jerry's of the UK on
• 57:41
  Speaker 4: this issue, and.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: They took it a step further after that article went up.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: They changed all of their storefronts to look like crime
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: scenes and put up police tape that said police have
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: crossed the line. And then they had these posters where
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: it was a dude who half of his face looked
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: like a regular person and then the other half he
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: was clearly a cop and it said paid to lie
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: on the posters. And they did this all around fucking
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: London with their storefronts. They dedicated their fucking storefronts to this,
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: and people weren't happy. People were like, that's anti state,
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: that's anti police, and they were like, fuck you, we
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: don't care. This is what we do in addition to
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: making cosmetics. This was their quote from pr rep Eva cook.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: As a global campaigning company, we believe in using our voices, shops,
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: and online presence to bring awareness and support to a
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: variety of issues, some of which vary regionally. Fuck yeah,
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: I'm into that. And they've previously backed the Black Lives
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: Matter campaign in US in the US and a hunger
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: strike in support of Guantanamo Bay prisoners. So the fact
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: that they would back this isn't that crazy, but the
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: degree to which they did it right in the heart
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: of where it's happening, I think is commendable.
• 59:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: I think that's something that we're going to have to
• 59:03
  Speaker 4: kind of accept moving more into the twenty first century.
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: Is that I think we.
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: Naturally have an assumption that people who run large companies
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: or a very successful business people all have a sort
• 59:14
  Speaker 4: of common mindset or a certain political viewpoint.
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: And that I mean, we saw recently with the people who.
• 59:20
  Speaker 4: Were connected to CrossFit turn out to be insane, like
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: anti vaxxers, and people are like, huh, like the people
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: who run CrossFit are insane and like libertarians and stuff.
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: So we're going to see a lot more companies I
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: think that have more particular character to the people who
• 59:35
  Speaker 4: own them and run them, and are much more you know,
• 59:38
  Speaker 4: like bold like this, Whether for good or bad, we
• 59:40
  Speaker 4: can't really say than we did I think in the
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: twentieth century where people wanted to have more anonymous corporations
• 59:46
  Speaker 4: like GM you know or something like that. So we're
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: going to see more companies like Lush I think doing
• 59:50
  Speaker 4: this sort of thing hopefully.
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: And the thing Lush and everyone campaigning over this once
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: is three things they want. Fourth, actually, they want the
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: investigation and inquiry to extend to Scotland. They want the
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: cover names of the officers, the names of the groups
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: they spied on, and the personal files of the victims.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: And the reason they're not getting it is something called
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: the mosaic effect. That is a term the Metropolitan Police
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: Service used in a report that was submitted to the
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: inquiry panel assembled by Teresa May. And their argument is
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: that absolute secrecy must be maintained around these units and
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: individual officers. Why because even comparatively small leakages of information
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: can be pieced together like a mosaic to enable identification
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: of the officers by those whom they targeted, but also
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: by journalists and researchers, and the theory of the mosaic
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: effect is that officers would run the risk of becoming
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: targets for violence by those they spied and reported on. Also,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: and this is so rich, hmmm, that identifying the officers
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: in question would be an unacceptable intrusion into the private
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: and family lives of the officers.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: Laura, I am choking on irony right now.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 6: Oh, it's I mean, I would love to be the person.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 6: I would love I would love to meet the person
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 6: who wrote that report, just to get a little window
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 6: into this six six sickle mind.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: What a sick pop Jesus fucking Christ.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: That takes some gumption to be like, no, we can't
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: tell you who was spying on you. That would be
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: like you're spying on us.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: That would be route to their families.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 4: Don't you have any standards?
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: Don't you have any class?
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: People through this to further your political gains.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry, these men have been going out and fucking
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 4: other women and making new families. We don't want to
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: make their families feel bad. That's the last thing we
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 4: want to do is make these families feel bad. You know,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: the families and the men that been going out and
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 4: having secret families. Hey, we would hate that, We would
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 4: hate that.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: Jesus Christ.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: Well, it's an interesting thing because when we think about
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 4: what the main issue is here, which is again consent.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 4: In the US is one of these countries where the
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 4: police can say that someone under arrest consented to have
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 4: sex with them. We obviously know that's ridiculous, but you
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: can't consent to have sex with Olwen who's in prison.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: Let's say I would argue that if you are lying
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: about your identity, the person who is sleeping with you
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 4: cannot consent to have sex with you because they don't
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: know who.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: The fuck you are.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah right, does that seems.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 4: So it is like being raped by the state over years?
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, definitely in it. I don't know, it's it's
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: a It is quite the goddamn scandal. I'll we'll link
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: to a bunch of articles about it. The Guardian in
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: the UK has covered this really well. Sometimes that happens.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: The Miami Herald, if you look into their reporting on
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein, woof top notch, Like they won awards for
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: that shit, and the Guardian should probably have won some
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: awards for their reporting on this. So we will link
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: to a whole bunch of Guardian articles and a whole
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: bunch of other articles.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: And you can read more about it.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: And it's just such a widespread thing, Like there's like
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: seven women that have come forward and that they know
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: about that these relationships happened with. But we know there's
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: eighty dead kids whose identities are out there, which means
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: there were at least eighty of these motherfuckers doing this
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: and they probably just haven't been found out yet. Like
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: this is a huge scandal that the government is not
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: going to just own up to.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 4: No, we'll never know the truth said of it, and
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: it's obviously a lot. I feel that empathy for the
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 4: women involved, but even people if you're not directly fucking someone.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: I mean, there is a sense if I was friends
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 4: with the comedian for years and then I found out
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 4: that they were a cop, that would fuck me up.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: I guarantee there are cops doing comedy in La. Absolutely
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: no way that's not happening.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, the moral bar for comedy is you know,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 4: you know, Nazi scoff at it, so then nothing would
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 4: surprise me. But you know, uh but yeah, no, I mean,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 4: so to just know to be in this person's web
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 4: of any kind is to be damaged by them.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: So there are so many victims.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 4: That we can't even get into beyond the beyond the obvious,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: which is that these women were basically raped and impregnated
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 4: by the state.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: There's no reason for those kids to exist.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 4: Think about that. We made people for no reason.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they made people in the name of stamping out
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: the animal Liberation Front. Like, my god, So I think
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: that's our episode.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: Dating's tough? How you guys dating?
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the one that's the main theme of this episode.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: Dating is rough.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: I know, this.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 4: Guy's got herpies, this guy's a cop. I just want
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 4: someone to go to this candlelight vigil with me.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: Jesus.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: Uh, do we have anything to plug before we get
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: out of here?
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 5: No?
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 4: If you want to see something I worked on professionally,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 4: a show I worked on is on streaming.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 5: Can I promote that?
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Why not? I don't know.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 4: We're on a show called The Unexplained, host by William Shatner.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 5: You guys want to see.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 4: Some of my sick research work.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 3: It's finny put it so, I don't know.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 5: Check out the show.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: It's not a bad not a bad show.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: It's not a bad show.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 3: That a show. I wouldn't put it down by any means.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: You can follow this show on Twitter at Conspira Pops.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: I'm not really on Twitter anymore, so don't follow me.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 5: Thank god.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: I mean you can follow me in like up that
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: follower count, but I just won't talk to you or
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: interact with you or tweet anything because Twitter is a
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: fucking nightmare. But follow this show on Twitter at Conspira
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: Pops and uh on popsnetwork dot supercast dot tech or
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: Patreon dot com slash on pops. You can go there
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: and to either of those places and subscribe and get
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: all sorts of bonus content from the network and from
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: this show.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, jerks, whoa.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: I'm also on cash app and venmo at Laura dash
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 4: crawforddsh too. You want to send me money or I
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 4: can tell you how to buy mushrooms off the internet.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: And now we're getting investigated by.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: Doctor hat Laura.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: All right, let's get the fuck out of here. Laura
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: say goodbye bye, goodbye everybody.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: We love you.