Latest / The Morning Edition / Trump and the Washington attack: This shooting is different

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Trump and the Washington attack: This shooting is different · The Morning Edition

0:03
S1: Within hours of the shooting, right outside where Donald Trump
0:06
S1: was dining at the Hilton Hotel in Washington, the American
0:10
S1: president was venting his anger.
0:12
S2: You're you're horrible people. Horrible people.
0:15
S1: Not notably about the gunman firing shots in the lobby
0:18
S1: of the hotel, but at a journalist who read out
0:21
S1: what the suspected shooter allegedly thinks about Trump.
0:25
S3: Excuse me, excuse me.
0:27
S2: I'm not a pedophile. You read that crap from some
0:30
S2: sick person. I'm not any of those things. Mr. president,
0:33
S2: I was never. Excuse me. Excuse me. You shouldn't be
0:37
S2: reading that on 60 minutes. You're a disgrace.
0:40
S1: I'm Samantha Salinger, Morris, and you're listening to The Morning
0:43
S1: Edition from The Age and the Sydney Morning Herald today.
0:48
S1: Bruce Wolpe, a former American congressional staffer and now a
0:51
S1: senior fellow at the United States Study Centre, on why
0:55
S1: this shooting differs in such a crucial and dangerous way
0:59
S1: from the two attempts on Trump's life in 2024 and
1:03
S1: the reckoning that is now spreading throughout Washington as a result.
1:07
S1: It's April the 28th. Bruce, welcome back to the podcast.
1:16
S4: Thank you. A very momentous day. Thanks so much, Sam.
1:18
S1: I mean, it really is. Let's start off by you
1:21
S1: just telling us what actually happened at the Washington Correspondents Dinner.
1:24
S1: We know this took place Sunday midday Australian time, and
1:28
S1: obviously the global headlines just went berserk because this was
1:32
S1: so momentous. Tell us what happened.
1:34
S4: This is an annual dinner of the white House Correspondents Association,
1:37
S4: which was formed in the 1920s of. In recent decades,
1:40
S4: it's always been held at the Washington Hilton because it's
1:42
S4: the biggest ballroom in the city and everyone wants to go.
1:46
S4: What was making this special was that Trump accepted it.
1:48
S4: I mean, this is the mainstream media and everybody else
1:51
S4: in the lamestream media and the fake news, they're all there,
1:55
S4: many of whom Trump has contempt for. But he says,
1:58
S4: I want to come and I have some messages to deliver.
2:01
S4: So at the dinner course around 9:30 p.m. Saturday night,
2:05
S4: Washington time, uh, food is being served. And then suddenly
2:08
S4: there are noises coming from outside the room. Uh, the
2:12
S4: CBS correspondent, uh, who was the chair of the session,
2:16
S4: she immediately looked like something was up, and then many
2:19
S4: people rushed to the podium, protected the president. One agent
2:22
S4: stood in front of him. So no one, if there
2:25
S4: was an attack, it would have to go through physically
2:26
S4: his body to get to the president. And then he
2:29
S4: was hauled out. Uh, the immediate purpose was to get
2:32
S4: as many cabinet officers and members, significant members in the
2:35
S4: official rankings in Washington out. And, uh, and that's what happened.
2:39
S4: So the whole thing was about three minutes, but it
2:42
S4: was probably the most dramatic three minutes. A lot of
2:44
S4: people will live.
2:45
S5: Good afternoon. US President Donald Trump has been rushed from
2:48
S5: a Washington ballroom after a man opened fire in the
2:51
S5: hotel's lobby.
2:54
S6: The sound of several gunshots sent the president, ducking security detail,
3:01
S6: leapt over tables. As a swarm of officers surrounded the
3:06
S6: president and the First Lady, rushing them from the stage.
3:17
S1: And so do we know how this unfolded? Like, how
3:20
S1: close did this gunman actually get to getting inside the ballroom? Because,
3:25
S1: you know, it was chaos, right? Like many of the
3:27
S1: reporters that were there, they've since written accounts that they're
3:30
S1: under the tables, right? They've ducked under the tables. It's
3:32
S1: difficult to see what's happening. So what do we know
3:34
S1: about how close this gunman actually got to the ballroom
3:38
S1: and therefore to President Trump?
3:40
S4: From everything that I could see, he wanted to storm
3:43
S4: the doors of the ballroom and get in. He didn't
3:45
S4: do that. He raced past. He he ran through a
3:47
S4: magnetometer like an airport thing with Secret Service. He ran past.
3:52
S4: And then they started in pursuit. Shots were fired. One officer,
3:56
S4: one Secret Service agent was hit but had a bulletproof vest.
3:59
S4: And apparently he's okay. They had guns and other weapons
4:04
S4: from him, threw him on the floor, stripped him, checked
4:07
S4: and so forth. So while it was a terribly vicious attempt,
4:13
S4: there was no direct threat in terms of a weapon
4:15
S4: being fired at the president in the room. So but
4:18
S4: everyone is scared. I mean, you have, you know, Charlie Kirk,
4:21
S4: you had the president in Butler, Pennsylvania, a guy with
4:23
S4: a gun outside his golf course near Mar a Lago.
4:26
S4: So this is the third attempt on the on Trump
4:30
S4: in the past two years.
4:32
S1: It's absolutely just astonishing. And tell us what do we
4:35
S1: know about the gunman? Because we know that the New
4:37
S1: York Post published a copy of the alleged manifesto written
4:40
S1: by this gunman. So what do we know?
4:43
S4: We'll find out a lot more. But apparently he had
4:45
S4: strong anti-Trump feelings. And but you know how he reached
4:49
S4: a point where he wanted to express them? We'll find
4:51
S4: out in due course. But it seems he was motivated
4:53
S4: more by political issues as opposed to people like to
4:57
S4: do these terribly violent things just for attention or to, uh,
5:01
S4: just show I'm out there. Hey, look at me. So
5:03
S4: it seems more focused. And I think that actually gets
5:06
S4: to something pretty important here. President Trump is the is
5:09
S4: a divisive figure. He is a divider in chief of
5:12
S4: the country. He is not the uniter in chief. He
5:15
S4: stirs passions among people. And so there is this mood
5:18
S4: that will continue through the duration of the Trump presidency,
5:22
S4: of things being tense and people being upset and believing
5:25
S4: that wrong things were done and wanting to fix them.
5:28
S4: And so I think we'll see. I believe we'll see
5:31
S4: more of this.
5:32
S1: And you mentioned, of course, that there's been two prior
5:34
S1: assassination attempts on Trump only recently. And this is notable,
5:39
S1: this one, right? Because Trump wasn't the only apparent target.
5:42
S1: Is that right? Because again, in that manifesto that's been
5:45
S1: obtained by the New York Post, the alleged attacker wrote
5:49
S1: that he was after, quote, administration officials in brackets, not
5:52
S1: including Mr. Patel. That is, of course, the head of
5:55
S1: the FBI. They are targets prioritized from highest ranking to lowest.
5:59
S1: So I guess tell us how significant it is that
6:02
S1: this gunman wasn't allegedly just going for Trump, but rather
6:06
S1: a number of administration officials.
6:08
S4: He was on a mission. And and I think there
6:10
S4: are many people across the country who feel that, you know,
6:13
S4: people who have lost, lost their mind, you know, become
6:16
S4: distorted individuals. And I think there are a lot of
6:18
S4: people who harbor these feelings. So then the issue is
6:21
S4: what kind of security is provided here for this event
6:24
S4: and the Hilton Hotel itself. Anyone could walk in, including
6:28
S4: on Saturday night. It was a functioning hotel. There were
6:31
S4: there were these the electronic, the magnetometers, the wands and
6:35
S4: all that stuff to get into the room. But I
6:39
S4: think there's a judgment made as to whether that was
6:41
S4: really sufficient. So if it ever is redone in another
6:45
S4: hotel in Washington, I think many further steps will be
6:49
S4: taken to clear the building with, you know, 48 hours
6:52
S4: before anything happens and let people go about their business.
6:56
S4: These are look, these are scary times for the country.
6:58
S4: And the country is tense. I've been there for six weeks.
7:01
S4: I'm going back for a couple months in July and August. And, um,
7:05
S4: people are not happy. And, uh, and so actually there's
7:09
S4: no surprise here. There's always shock when someone tries to
7:12
S4: attack the president and others. But, but we're not surprised
7:15
S4: by it anymore. And we're going to see more of this.
7:18
S7: Okay. So then as a layperson.
7:20
S1: Watching this unfold and hearing all of the reporting about it,
7:24
S1: I'm a little astonished because even this gunman in this
7:28
S1: alleged manifesto, this is bananas to me. In a postscript,
7:32
S1: he actually expressed surprise at what he described as a
7:35
S1: lack of proper security at the hotel. And you mentioned
7:38
S1: just before that the nickname for this Hilton hotel is
7:40
S1: the Hinckley Hilton, which is, of course, because John Hinckley Jr,
7:45
S1: the attempted assassin of Ronald Reagan, I think it was
7:47
S1: in 1981, was outside the same hotel. So does this
7:51
S1: point to stupidity? That this dinner is still held there,
7:55
S1: and that there's such a lack of security that anybody
7:58
S1: can just walk into the hotel?
8:00
S4: That's the way it's been since the Hinckley shooting. Reagan
8:03
S4: almost lost his life. Um, he was taken to the hospital.
8:07
S4: It turned out he was bleeding quite heavily. And he
8:09
S4: gets on the operating table and it's Ronald Reagan saying,
8:12
S4: tell me, are all you guys, all you doctors? Are
8:13
S4: you Republicans? You know.
8:15
S1: That's right. He was famously joking, although he almost died.
8:18
S4: I think if Reagan if this was Reagan's night on
8:20
S4: Saturday night, he would have said, you know, I had
8:22
S4: some great material and I didn't have a chance to
8:24
S4: use it in my speech, so I. That's right. But
8:27
S4: Trump was not like that. But, uh, just looking at
8:30
S4: there's video of the gunman rushing towards the door and
8:33
S4: he's running through the magnetometer to get there. So I
8:36
S4: think he rehearsed, he apparently checked into the hotel two
8:39
S4: nights earlier, and I think he knew he had a plan,
8:42
S4: and I think he was executing on the plan.
8:46
S1: After the break.
8:47
S4: Why was this not just the room itself, but the
8:50
S4: area around the room so vulnerable to someone penetrating it?
8:58
S1: Okay. Well, you mentioned just there before that, uh, Ronald
9:01
S1: Reagan was famously joking to doctors that he hoped they
9:03
S1: were Republicans when he was, you know, had lost so
9:06
S1: much blood from his attempted assassination. Obviously, like you said,
9:09
S1: he almost died. Do we know about Trump's response? Because,
9:13
S1: of course, certainly when he was nearly assassinated in Butler, Pennsylvania,
9:18
S1: I think it could be argued that he used that
9:21
S1: for political gain. He amassed a huge amount of support
9:25
S1: in the wake of that. You know, that photo became
9:27
S1: iconic and it was used for political means. What do
9:31
S1: you think about this moment, Bruce?
9:33
S4: I think this is a replay of sorts of that moment.
9:37
S4: I mean, what impressed everyone, of course, when he was
9:39
S4: shot in Pennsylvania was his determination to fight, fight, fight,
9:43
S4: holding up his fist as there's blood on his face and, uh.
9:47
S4: So what's he projecting? Strength and courage. And I'm not afraid.
9:51
S4: And if you look at his face as this unfolded
9:53
S4: on the dais, um, he wasn't, uh, he wasn't he
9:56
S4: wasn't ducking under a desk or anything. He was he
9:59
S4: was pretty calm and I think, uh, and everyone kind
10:01
S4: of noticed it. And so this kicks in again, another
10:04
S4: thing that happened in the immediate aftermath of Butler, Pennsylvania,
10:09
S4: the following week was the Republican National Convention, where he
10:11
S4: was renominated for a second term. And he gets on
10:14
S4: and he talks. He talks in spiritual terms that he
10:16
S4: believes God is is with him and wants him to
10:19
S4: become president again to save the country. And I think
10:22
S4: we'll hear some of that, this mortality issue and spiritual forces,
10:27
S4: I think we'll hear from that. Him again, I expect
10:29
S4: he will get he is really underwater in his approval
10:32
S4: rating because of the economy and because of the war
10:35
S4: in Iran. I think he will get a a slight
10:37
S4: bump in his approval because of this. Most Americans do
10:41
S4: not want violence against elected officials, and no one wants
10:44
S4: him to come to an end like this. So I
10:47
S4: think there will be an uptick at a time when
10:49
S4: he really needs it of people saying, yeah, you know,
10:52
S4: we wish you well. Mr. President.
10:54
S1: I'm just wondering, is there any chance that there might
10:56
S1: be the opposite as well? Because we know that in
10:59
S1: the wake of this shooting incident that Trump said that Melania,
11:05
S1: his wife, reacted more quickly than he did, and he
11:08
S1: said he didn't react as quickly as she did. And
11:10
S1: I wonder whether some people might actually interpret that as
11:14
S1: feebleness or not having, you know, just his instincts or
11:17
S1: his reactions being slowed because of his age. Obviously, there's
11:20
S1: a lot of focus at the moment on what some
11:24
S1: are seeing as mental deterioration. Just in terms of the
11:27
S1: social media posts he's been sending out that seem to
11:29
S1: be a bit deranged. Do you think anybody might interpret
11:31
S1: it that way?
11:32
S4: I don't I don't think so. And he went back
11:34
S4: to the white House first. He said he wanted to
11:36
S4: continue the event. And let's come back in 30 minutes
11:39
S4: after the break. And and and and so he could
11:42
S4: he could do his program.
11:44
S1: I think he needed it pointed out to him from
11:45
S1: his own people that people might not be so responsive
11:48
S1: to jokes after what might be an attempted assassination.
11:51
S4: I think it was pretty good advice.
11:54
S1: I'd say.
11:54
S4: But when he when he went back to the white
11:56
S4: House and did the press briefing, I found him to
11:58
S4: be very strong, matter of fact, down to earth. Knew
12:01
S4: what he was saying in control. In other words, it was.
12:04
S2: It's always shocking when something like this happens. It happened
12:07
S2: to me a little bit, and that never changes. And again,
12:12
S2: the performance of the Secret Service and the police, all
12:16
S2: of the law enforcement, I thought was really good. So
12:18
S2: it was very quick. There wasn't a lot of time
12:20
S2: to be.
12:20
S1: A lot of people have been writing about that this day, after,
12:23
S1: which is that so many people who would have been
12:25
S1: in succession if, God forbid, Trump had actually been assassinated
12:28
S1: were in the same room. So is there much discussion happening,
12:32
S1: do you think, this morning, either among the Secret Service
12:36
S1: or more broadly in the white House, that something seriously
12:38
S1: needs to change? Like, just tell us how risky that
12:41
S1: was because I saw someone report that if catastrophe had
12:44
S1: struck control of the U.S., nuclear codes would have passed
12:48
S1: to Senator Chuck Grassley, who is 92.
12:51
S4: Well, think about it. America's at war, and every senior
12:54
S4: member of the cabinet was there. And in terms of
12:56
S4: presidential succession, the vice president was there. The speaker of
13:00
S4: the House is next in line. He was there. So imagine.
13:02
S4: And again, with the war on, let's say someone had
13:04
S4: bombs on them and was a suicide bomber could get
13:07
S4: into the room and explode the whole room. It would have. Um, yes,
13:10
S4: that's a catastrophe. So I think all this is going
13:13
S4: to be looked at and that's all to the good.
13:16
S4: But I think there are a lot of questions. Why
13:18
S4: was this not just the room itself, but the area
13:21
S4: around the room so vulnerable to someone penetrating it?
13:24
S1: And I want to ask you about how you think
13:27
S1: it's perhaps been resonating in Washington this day after the
13:30
S1: fact that the response by the Secret Service to protecting
13:35
S1: who they protected in the room that evening has really revealed,
13:40
S1: I guess, who's important and who isn't because you and I.
13:43
S1: Before recording, we spoke about the fact that the former
13:46
S1: Goldman Sachs CEO, Lloyd Blankfein. He wrote on social media
13:50
S1: after attending the event, quote, I noted a new litmus
13:53
S1: for status among the government elite. Whether you were whisked
13:56
S1: away by Secret Service or left to fend. So first
13:59
S1: of all, Bruce, let's just go into who was left
14:01
S1: to fend because there's some there's some highly notable people
14:04
S1: that were just like left behind.
14:07
S4: In the immediate aftermath, it was clear the government was
14:10
S4: not in the room. There were no shots fired in
14:12
S4: the room. And so people were not going to die
14:14
S4: by gunshot. These are very quick calculations. Maybe it's just
14:18
S4: and people are under table. So maybe it's just who
14:20
S4: you see and you and you get them out.
14:23
S1: We do know that, for instance, obviously Secret Service people
14:26
S1: of course went straight for the president. Obviously, we know
14:28
S1: they're going to do that. We know that Health and
14:30
S1: Human Services Secretary Robert F Kennedy Jr was body blocked
14:33
S1: by three agents as he walked from the ballroom. His wife,
14:36
S1: Cheryl Hines, was left to follow alone, a few feet behind,
14:40
S1: climbing over barriers in a ball gown, apparently speaker Mike Johnson.
14:45
S1: He had to send armed officers to retrieve his wife.
14:49
S1: So I'm just wondering whether this could be sending some
14:52
S1: shockwaves through the Trump administration, maybe even impact their loyalty
14:55
S1: towards him or Maga.
14:58
S4: The only other time when there's such an assembly of
15:00
S4: high officials is when the president addresses a joint session
15:03
S4: of Congress, and everyone is in that room, and the
15:06
S4: generals and the and the Supreme Court and so forth.
15:10
S4: And there is a designated survivor cabinet official who is
15:13
S4: at another location in case a catastrophe of such magnitude occurs.
15:18
S4: And I think they want to replicate that situation as
15:21
S4: often as possible. So, so yes, but at the same time,
15:25
S4: the Secret Service under Homeland Security, there's been chaos in
15:29
S4: the department, including funding. And, uh, there's a lot to
15:34
S4: examine there. It's not being run as tightly as it
15:36
S4: should be.
15:37
S7: And so what do you think.
15:39
S1: Is happening now? Are you hearing any conversations from anybody
15:42
S1: involved in this or any, any politicians whatsoever with regards
15:46
S1: to how this might impact things in advance of these
15:49
S1: just momentous midterms in November? You know, for which a
15:52
S1: lot of people are saying, okay, the Democrats are going
15:55
S1: to gain control of the House, maybe, possibly even the Senate.
15:59
S1: Does this change things?
16:01
S4: You know, everything in Washington is political, Sam, and everyone
16:04
S4: looks at it through a political lens. And going into
16:07
S4: that night, the polls were terrible for the president. His
16:10
S4: approval rating is in the 30s. That's a death zone. Um,
16:13
S4: the war in Iraq is very unpopular. Approval of how
16:17
S4: the president is handling it is also under 30%. Inflation
16:21
S4: is at a record high. Petrol gasoline prices are at
16:25
S4: record highs. And and he's really unpopular. So again I
16:29
S4: think a slight a slight bump because of how he
16:31
S4: comported himself in the midst of this, uh, of these events.
16:35
S4: But the Politics are unchanged. The Democrats are in a
16:39
S4: wave situation where they can take back sufficient seats to
16:42
S4: take the House and even the Senate, which has a
16:45
S4: favorable tilt towards Republicans. And what senators are up for.
16:47
S4: Election can also slip to the Democrats. So. And there's
16:52
S4: no end to the war, and there's no off ramp
16:55
S4: is now the most favored expression in Washington. Do you
16:57
S4: have an off ramp? And he doesn't. And as long
17:01
S4: as that goes on, it's killing him politically. So we'll
17:04
S4: be back to normal normal transmission very shortly.
17:08
S1: Bruce, you're American. Of course, you lived for a large
17:10
S1: period of your life in the States, and you said that, yes,
17:14
S1: this is shocking, but not surprising. Yeah. I mean, was
17:18
S1: any part of you surprised by the fact that this
17:20
S1: was happening or really not? Is this just one more
17:23
S1: mark towards wow, we are really in a different time
17:25
S1: just with regards to you, of course, mentioned the previous
17:28
S1: attempted assassinations on Donald Trump. Then of course, there was
17:31
S1: the Charlie Kirk assassination. There's been a lot of violence
17:35
S1: against elected members of Congress. Then there was, of course,
17:38
S1: the CEO of that health insurance company who was shot
17:42
S1: in broad daylight. I mean, yeah, is there any part
17:46
S1: of you that's like, what the hell?
17:48
S4: We don't we don't. You know what? Trump is not
17:50
S4: going to mention gun control. He'll never mention gun control.
17:52
S4: And there are too many guns. And we're way beyond that.
17:55
S4: Horse has bolted. Decades ago, I thought when Barack Obama
17:59
S4: was president that he was really I was scared to
18:01
S4: death that he would be assassinated, but he wasn't. And
18:04
S4: there's no known attempt during the eight years that he
18:06
S4: was president. So we have this. But but I think
18:10
S4: another aspect of this to look at is the war
18:12
S4: in Iran. The United States took out the supreme leader
18:16
S4: in Iran and two tiers under the Supreme leader. I
18:20
S4: believe Iran wants to assassinate Trump and assassinate as many
18:22
S4: cabinet officers as possible, so they better be ready for that.
18:26
S1: Wow, that is really stark. And that's so interesting, what
18:29
S1: you mentioned, that contrast to Barack Obama's eight years in
18:32
S1: power and no attempt at assassination of him, which I
18:36
S1: think is quite incredible given how much racism there is
18:39
S1: in the country and that people were quite nervous, I think,
18:42
S1: about his safety, given that he was the first person
18:44
S1: of color who was president of the United States. So
18:46
S1: do you just chalk this up to just how divisive
18:49
S1: President Trump is, or just how divisive, how even further
18:53
S1: divisive he is in his second term as president than
18:56
S1: the first?
18:57
S4: This is where we. Yes, because he came back. And
19:00
S4: this is where this is where we are. And it's
19:02
S4: going to take a while for the culture and the
19:04
S4: country to change.
19:05
S1: Like you've mentioned before, recording, he's even angry at the Pope.
19:08
S1: I mean, you know, there's no end to his anger
19:10
S1: in terms of who he will target, right?
19:13
S4: The divider in chief. So he makes enemies and and
19:17
S4: they will hold him to account. One way or another.
19:20
S1: Well, a shocking day for the United States. Thank you
19:22
S1: so much, Bruce, for your time.
19:24
S4: Thank you. A pleasure, as always. Thank you so much, Sam.
19:31
S1: In other news today, driven by jobs, figures, housing supply
19:34
S1: and increase in interest rates. Australian house prices could fall
19:38
S1: by 11% by 2030, according to new modelling. One third
19:43
S1: of childcare workers are yet to complete government mandated child
19:46
S1: safety training, with the deadline for this training expiring at
19:50
S1: the end of August. And young Australians are unlikely to
19:54
S1: be worse off than their parents over their entire lives,
19:57
S1: according to groundbreaking research into intergenerational inequity. You can read
20:03
S1: more at the age.com.au or smh.com.au. Today's episode was produced
20:11
S1: by Kai Wong. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills, and
20:15
S1: our podcasts are overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick.
20:19
S1: If you like our show, follow The Morning Edition and
20:22
S1: leave a review for us on Apple or Spotify. Thanks
20:25
S1: for listening.