Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / Winter meetings wish list! Plus, Sonny Gray's comments

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Winter meetings wish list! Plus, Sonny Gray's comments · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinals Territory.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Jim Hayes joined by lancelin and Matt Holliday. We expect
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Kyle Gibson will be with us later on in the program.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Not a lot going on in terms of moves by
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: the Saint Louis Cardinals, but gentlemen, there are some interesting
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: tidbits that I thought worthy of discussion. And by the way,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: nice to see you guys.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Hello everybody, Happy every birthday.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Jam thought I didn't think we'd be able to get
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: that in there yet. One hundred, one hundred and forty
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: two years old. Anyway, Suddy Gray, who signed with the
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Red Sox, had his introduction news conference with the Boston media,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: and during that he took shots at the Yankees. He
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: was part of the Yankees for parts of two seasons,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: and he basically unloaded, saying I didn't want to go there,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: and he also said it's nice to go to a
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: place where it's easy to hate the Yankees. Now, Lancelnne
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Matt Holliday both former Yankees. First, Lance, you were teammate
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: with Sonny. We all like him, and we're.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: We forget forget. I was actually teammates with him in
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: New York.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: So go on, go on.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Uh, you were Lance, your teammates with with Sonny as
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: a cardinal in his cardinal's territory, and Uh, I don't remember.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Him saying anything negative. First off.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Were you surprised that he sort of unloaded on the Bronx.
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: Uh?
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: No, I wasn't surprised at all. It's because you never
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: asked him. That's why I never said anything negative about
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: New York. To be honest with you, Sonny's time in
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: New York and mac And contested this when he first
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: got over there. Sonny has a way of that he
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: likes to do things and the way he goes about it,
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: and I think he was in the process of learning
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: that when he got to New York. And then I
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: think his time in New York halted some of those
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: things and put him in a situation where he kind
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: of got lost in a sense. And then I will
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: say this, and I think he alluded to it in
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: the press conference. And also his time in New York,
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: he didn't enjoy it, he didn't want to go there,
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: but it also helped him in his next chapter of
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: his career, going to Cincinnati and Minnesota to Saint Louis
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: and then now back to Boston to figure out who
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: he was, so he didn't have that problem again. He
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: can go in. He lays out when he came to
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: Saint Louis, he laid out to Dusty. He's like, here's
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: the things I like, here's the things I don't like.
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: Here's how I go about pregame, post game, in between, starts,
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: all of it. And if you have anything you'd like
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: to talk about it, I'm all for it. But this
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: is me And he learned that by his failures in
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: New York, which has made him a great picture since.
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: So I understand where he's coming from, because when you
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: play your worst in a spot, naturally you're not going
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: to have good feelings about that spot. And that's what
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: he's telling you. And they kind of made him do
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: things he was uncomfortable with and he failed doing them,
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: and he just didn't enjoy his time there. And you
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: know what a better place to go to when you've
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: reinvented yourself and had a great career to go to
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: Boston and then try to shove it down New York's throw.
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: So I think Boston fans love it. New York fans
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: already didn't like him, so he didn't care. That's the
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: way he thinks. So all in all, it's this is
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: this is the beauty of the game too. You stink
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: in one spot. You go to their rival and you
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: do well and beat him, and they hate you even more.
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: So that gives fans something to boost some more about.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Well, the fact that he doesn't like the Yankees will
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: make him instantly popular with the Red Sox. But man,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: as I recalled with my old man memory that you
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: were part of the Yankees, had a health issue there.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: But I also recall you you do you enjoyed your
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: time in New York, didn't you?
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: I mean, look, I think it's an it's an interesting place.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: It's it's certainly different than any place that anybody else
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: will play. I mean, uh, you know, the New York
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: Yankees is is just it is different, like the how
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: you travel, the all the things that go into it.
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's a it's a place where you know,
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: it's different and a lot of things as far as
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: family goes, as far as like, uh, what the access
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: that you have for your family?
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: And I understand, like, look it you know, it's it's
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: the Yankees.
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: And they have a lot of policies in place that
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: have been in place forever. But it's different, Like it's
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: different from where I came from at that point, coming
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: from Saint Louis and the access that I had with
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: my family and my kids. And I'm sure it was
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: different from Sonny coming from where he was coming from.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: It's just like you know, and anybody that that it
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: goes from a place that you know they've been a while,
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: and then you go to the Yankees. It is certainly
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: a shocking. It's a culture shock. And where you live
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: as a family. When we lived in the Upper East
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: Side and an apartment, uh, the kids learned how to
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: hail cabs, they rode the train. I think there was
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: certainly some positives just from a life experience for for
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: our family, but it is, it is. It is certainly
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: a different animal. And and like Lance said, when uh,
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: you don't get off to a good start, and you know,
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: he didn't pitch exceptionally well there, it it leaves a
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: bad taste in your mouth. And and I think that
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: that's I think where this is coming from.
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: I I'm anxious.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: I like it.
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: I mean, I like good like baseball kind of drama
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: a little bit where the first time Sunny pitches at
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: the Yankee Stadium with the Red Sox, he's gonna be
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: amped up. Uh, the Yankees fans are gonna be all
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: over him. He's I like it, Like, I think that's
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: it's good for baseball. I want to tune in, like
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: after hearing this, like, I'll be watching that game and
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: so I just think it's a it's a it's a
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: place where guys you kind of usually love it or
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: hate it. It's uh, it's it's just a different animal
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: than than every other team in the league.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: The two fan bases, Yankee fans Red Sox fans have
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: one thing in common. They hate the other fan base.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: They hate the other team. Probably more hatred between those
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: two fan bases than any other baseball rivalry, at least
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: from what I've seen. But the thing about Red Sox
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: fans and make them similar to Yankees fans, is you
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: go out there and you don't pitch, will they will
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: turn on you? Like that Lance, You've pitched in Boston
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: quite a bit. What's the fan base like in in Boston?
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Because I would I would hardly say there's similarities. Say
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: to Cardinal fans.
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: No, there's not similarities to Cardinals fans. That's for sure.
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: You're looking at I got lucky. I gotta play in La,
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: so I got the La Dodger rivalry, and then the
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: San Diego was a little whatever, and then you know,
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: you had Saint Louis in Chicago, New York and Boston
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: New York, and Boston is a different animal. I will say,
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: when you're in Boston, when you're warming up in the
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: fence and that that guy's right here just kind of
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: screaming clam chowder in your ear and stuff like that,
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: it gets a little You're just like, all right, dude,
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: like head on back up there, eat some crab cakes
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: and keep your mouth shut, like we're good to go.
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: But I loved it, like those those rivalry games are
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: my favorite times to play. Were my favorite. Uh they
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: you just it up for it. I love pitching in
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: New York. I love like you know you like you
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: love pitching against Boston when you're in New York. You
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: love pitching against the Giants when you're in LA. You
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: love pitching against the Cubs when you're in Saint Louis.
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: Like that's what the game's about. Those are the games
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: that are fun and easy to get up for. And uh,
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: that was why I played the game and enjoyed playing
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: a game with stuff like that.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: You talk about Giants Dodgers fans don't like each other
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: from those two groups gets violent sometimes Yankees.
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: That's probably the scariest one, to be honest, I was
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: going to say, we've got we've got murders and the
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: Giants Dodgers, I think trumps the Red Sox Yankees.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you have the Cards and Cubs and
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: they say they hate each other, but it's really a
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: friendly rivalry. But Matt just the Red Sox fan in general,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: that's sort of a different animal.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Those East Coast fans. It's it's a different animal, isn't it.
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: Honestly, I always loved playing in Boston. I felt like
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: it was a little different. I I felt like the
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: Boston fans were I wouldn't say I didn't think.
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: They were as cutthroat, if you will, I didn't.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: I didn't.
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: I didn't think that they were as personal or maybe
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: as uh, you know, I thought they they like to
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: boo you, they like to tell you suck, you know,
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: the standard.
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: But I loved playing in Boston.
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: I thought that was I thought that was probably one
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: of my favorite road places to play. I love the environment.
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: I love the I mean, outside of the locker room
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: being tiny. But I really liked playing there. I mean,
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: I think it was a good environment. I thought it
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: was a I thought it was a healthy hatred for
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: the other team.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: And maybe.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: I honestly I think, you know, as a left fielder
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: in Boston, maybe I was was shielded from a little
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: bit of it because of the Green Monster. You know,
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: I got some of the fans from the side a
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: little bit above the Monster. But I always felt like,
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: that's just a great sports city and it wasn't really Uh.
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: They weren't getting personal. They weren't you know, diving into
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: stuff that that they knew.
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: Was you know, personal.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: I think, and and and again, this is generally speaking.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: I'm sure you know, some guys have had some really
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: horrors and his experiences there. Just like every other venue
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: in all of sports, you're gonna have the outliers. Uh.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: But I thought, in general, I liked playing in Boston.
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: I thought it was in Philadelphia the same way I
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: liked playing there. I thought the fans were harsh, but
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: not overly, you know, kind of what I had all
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: heard about with with the with how they were had
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: the other team. I thought it was it was good,
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: you know, clean uh banter for the most part. Like
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: I said, every stadium. I mean, you can go to
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: Pittsburgh and find a guy, uh that's willing to say
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: stuff that makes you want to jump in the stands
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: and rip his head off. But uh, these are these
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: are generalities of fifteen years of playing in these different places.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's no stabbings like in Philadelphia. So that's
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: a good thing, no question about it. And there are
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: good fans in bad in every fan base. So I
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: do think the most vile things I've heard yelled at players, managers,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: coaches have come from San Francisco Giants fan That's just
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: my experience. They are vile. Another interesting thing that I
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: saw in the Athletic Katie Wu had this writing about
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: the Cardinals and she said basically that talking to other teams,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: other teams felt the upside for Lars Newbar was higher
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: than say Brendan Donovan or an Alec Burlson. And I
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: thought that was interesting because we've seen good from Lars
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: when he's on the field. He's had some injury issues
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: coming off two heel surgeries now, But when you look
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: at the numbers, I would think Burlison would be the
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: guy that you're most interested. I think he's a year
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: younger than new Bar. I know Donovan's younger than both
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: of them. But the season that Burlison put together eighteen homers,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: two ninety batting average, and you've got the sense that
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: he's just scratching the surface. So Lance, I'll ask you,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: when you look at those three guys and who has
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: a better upside or the best upside?
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Who would you say?
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: You know, it's tough because they're all three bringing different
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: aspects to the game for you. So for me, I
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: understand why people might see that in Lars. I think
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: you're looking at a guy gets healthy. You're looking at
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: maybe a change of ballpark. You're looking at a twenty
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: five to thirty home run possibility. Guy with a very
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: good idea of the strike zone, takes his walks, plays,
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: can play all three outfield positions. So there's a little
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: bit I think that's why they see more of the upside.
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: And you know, and history of injuries, as you know,
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: kind of kind of hurts. You know, his trajectory so far,
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: Brosen's just a hitter. I think in people's eyes, I
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: think he can play good first base, but first basement,
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: he swings a lot, so there's not a whole lot
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: of walks and stuff like that, so I can see
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: where it might be. And I don't think he's hit
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: over twenty home runs yet right at twenty both years,
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: so it's not like a first baseman that hits thirty,
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: So they don't I don't think they project a thirty
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: five home run guy. He is kind of who he is.
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: He's going to hit two seventy five to two ninety
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: with twenty ish home runs and not walk a lot
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: and play first base most likely. So and then Donnie's
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: the guy that can play anywhere on the field, hit
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: anywhere in the lineup. So I truthfully probably put him
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: as the most most valuable out of the three. But
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: I can see the intrigue by by Lars and if
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: that's the case, in my opinion, with with Donovan and
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: Lars with going and in their second year of arbitration,
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: and then kind of the window you're in with the
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: CBA and this and that, I would try to get
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: as much as I can for him if those two
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: guys are up that high on people's list, and go
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: for it and then kind of restock your double, a
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: triple A big league team with young guys if you
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: can get three or four good players because you've got
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: two years of control over both of them. That's a
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: very intriguing thought for maybe what him can do.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: And back to how are you?
• 14:29
  Speaker 5: Hey, hey, gentlemen, what's up?
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah? You just a big road of wood at his house.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: You had some wood delivered. Is that what we're doing here?
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: Kyle?
• 14:43
  Speaker 5: I was delivering. I was delivering the wood to the
• 14:47
  Speaker 5: mill so that we can get a cut.
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: And that's.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: Well, it's good to see. We were talking about upside
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: and comparative.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Lead between I get to answer that question.
• 15:02
  Speaker 5: Are you just going straight to Kyle?
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: No?
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: I just want to get him up to speed so
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: we can formulate his uh his answer.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: Between New PARKI give him a chance.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Donovan Between between Newpark, Donovan and Burlison. But Matt, I
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: understood Lance made some good points about newpar and the upside.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: First of all, his numbers weren't great last year, But
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize he was playing on two bad heels.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: But the ability to have some power, which he has
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: and also a lot of walks that sort of differentiates
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: you from a lot of guys out there.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think that the thing that they
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: they really like about Lars is I think he hits
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: the ball hard, Like he's in the top percentages of
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: of exit velocity in a day and age where guys
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: are looking at that stuff, they might see something they
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: could maybe tweak in his swing that might unlock because
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: he does. I mean, I don't know exactly what his
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: bat speed is. I know they can track all that
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: stuff now, I don't know what his exact bat speed is,
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: but I know he hits the ball and hard and
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: like the high percentages of hard hit you know speed.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: So I would think it has a lot to do
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: with teams seeing an upside of if we can just
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: maybe tweak this guy's mechanics a little bit, maybe get
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: him out of Saint Louis, maybe a more hitter friendly park.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: You could be looking at a at a thirty to
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: thirty five home run type of power, and like the
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: metrics would say that he should probably hit more home
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: runs if you know, maybe his his angle of his
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: bat is maybe slightly changed because if you look at
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: the numbers, they shouldn't that shouldn't say that, right, Like
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: his numbers weren't as good as as Donovan, he doesn't
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: have as much, you know, obviously positional flexibility as Donovan.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: You know, Burlson won a Silver Slugger, and like Lance said,
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: he's he's positioned limited. So's he's a first baseman or DH.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: But if you just looked at the raw numbers, you
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: would you would put you would put him third. But
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: I think people look at and I don't know anything
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: about the injury, you know, the heels and all that stuff,
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: and and and I don't know you know how much
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: that affected his his numbers this year. So certainly don't
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: want to discount him playing uh somewhat hurt uh. But
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: I do think people look at like the raw material
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: of of Lars and and uh, you know some of
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: the stats that that are kind of the new age stats.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: I think he shines in some of those things. And
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: so I think that's probably where you're getting maybe some
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: of this interest that maybe doesn't add up if you
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: just looked at the kind of the basic numbers.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Certainly, Kyle, with Lars being healthy is the main thing.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: We know, he's a good player when he's healthy and
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: he's dealt with some stuff. But when you look at
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: those three guys, who's the guy you would pick as
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: a guy with the greatest upside in terms of attracting,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: you know, the best deal if the Cardinals were not
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: going to make a trade.
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think there's reasons why all of
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: them are obviously very you know, desired pieces to have, right.
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: You know. The thing about Lars that I think stands
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: out and even was in twenty twenty four as well,
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: was I mean that is his floor. I mean his
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: floor to me is is an average hitter. I mean
• 18:30
  Speaker 5: his struggle has been you know, I want to say,
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: either a seven hundred or an over seven hundred ops
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: the last two years battling injury and and uh not
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: playing his best. So I think that's one thing that
• 18:42
  Speaker 5: really intrigues people. You kind of know what you're getting
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: when he's you know, just at his base. Donnie to
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: me is like a Tommy Edmond that doesn't switch in.
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: I think he's extremely valuable. So I think he's probably
• 18:58
  Speaker 5: the guy that has the most value of all three
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: of them.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: So all three guys are exceptional, and I think there's
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: a lot of teams would like to have any all
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: of them. Those kind of decisions could be made sooner
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: than later. With the Winter Meetings coming up. When we
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: come back from break, I'm going to ask you, guys,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: what should the cardinals number one priority be at the
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Winter meetings. You are watching Cardinal Territory. Summer is in
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: the rearview mirror. But imagine this your own backyard, an oasis,
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• 20:24
  Speaker 2: To be nice.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: I'd like to have one of those things. Of course,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: I have a postage stamp for a backyard.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: So gentlemen, Jim, thank you.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Not to not too chevy, a little, a little shaky,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: but fine for me. I'm a senior citizen.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: After a thank you. Before the break, we talked about.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: What what the Cardinals may or may not do at
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: the Winter Meetings, which coming up next week. I'm gonna
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: start with Lance on this one. So I think it
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: was Lance's question, what should the Cardinals, I'm bloom his staff,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: what should their number one part to be the priority
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: be to try to get done at the Winter Meetings.
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: I think the main thing is to see where you
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: where you're at with Donovan and Lars on the trade block,
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: because if you look at what's going on, Aaron Otto
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: is gonna kind of be a slow play like last
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: year because of the Bregman situation. So you're gonna have
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: to figure out that probably at a later date, unless
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: you're a teams knows they're not in the Bregman situation
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: and then they know what what money the Cardinals are
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: going to throw back to get the job done with
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: with Nolan. So it's figuring out, Hey, if I'm in
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: a boat where I know that I'm going to probably
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: like we said, or like I said earlier, if you know, hey,
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: these two might be on the trade block. They're in
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: their second year of our our windows probably this way,
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: and we're not going to sign them to an extension.
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: Now's the time to maximize their value. So I'm seeing
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: what's on the table and what I can get for
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: those two from various teams, and you know, even if
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: it's a young, controllable top of the rotation arm and
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: stuff like that, and see where you can go. Because
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: you get rid of those two, you get three or
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: four prospects and you see where you're at, or maybe
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: even two and they're just two big league ready, like
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: you know, with a lot of service time available or
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: with a least amount of service time possible, so you
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: can keep them for a while. That's a that's a
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: good jump start to your youth movement.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: What about you've met, Yeah, I mean.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: I think you're always gauging. I think as you head
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: into the winter meetings, I think you want to try
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: to meet with as many teams as possible about pretty
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: much every player on your roster.
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think the contrarasts opportunity to see.
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: What gauge what people, what interests people have in him.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: I think obviously, like he said, you're trying to move
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: on the aeronauto.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: You know, maybe you make a.
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: Preemptive strike with Boston or you or you try to
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: find a team that's looking for a third baseman. You
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: try to maybe work something out. I think, like Lance said,
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: you you you take a you know, you just take
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: a gauge on what people are willing to give you
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: for new Bar and Burlson and Donovan, and if it
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: matches your window, which I think we would all agree
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: is probably not this year and maybe maybe even not
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: next year. If it matches your window to try to
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: win a World Series, which would you know, just in
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: my opinion is at least two years away. If it
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: matches your window better to trade Donovan, Burlson or or
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: a new Bar, then then you listen. And like Lance said,
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know what the other with.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: You know, the other teams think of them as far
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: as what they would give up. But I think you
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: listen and if it matches your window, then I think
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: you consider moving all of them, and so that that
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: would be That would be what I would probably go
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: into the Winter Meetings thinking, Kyle.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: First of all, tip of the cap to you for
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: delivering the wood. Also making sensational points while driving a vehicle.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: Maybe dangerous, but you're handling very nice.
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: That's the thing here. I was not watching the camera,
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: all right. I was being unprofessional to the podcast, professional
• 24:32
  Speaker 5: to myself. Watching the road is a two point seven
• 24:35
  Speaker 5: mile drive, all right, So let's not bring up the
• 24:38
  Speaker 5: fact that I was being dangerous. Okay, there's people that
• 24:41
  Speaker 5: do interview all the time and drive. Okay, Jim, fair enough.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Let's say you're not driving lumber around, but you're at
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: the Winter Meetings and uh, you're in the role of
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Hein Bloom. What would be the number one priority for you?
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah? I think they obviously have an idea. Matt has
• 25:01
  Speaker 5: brought up about the window, right if their window to win,
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: and I think it's I think it's really tough when
• 25:09
  Speaker 5: teams talk about this is our window to win the
• 25:10
  Speaker 5: World Series?
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 25:12
  Speaker 5: Winning the World Series is just you know, there are
• 25:15
  Speaker 5: times where it looked like the Dodgers were not gonna
• 25:17
  Speaker 5: win the World Series, and they were a shoe in
• 25:19
  Speaker 5: to win it, right, So I mean, I think I
• 25:21
  Speaker 5: think we're looking at a window to make the playoffs.
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: As I would probably go a little bit less specific
• 25:27
  Speaker 5: and say, Okay, if our window to make the playoffs
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: is next year, then if we don't get something for
• 25:33
  Speaker 5: any of those three players that makes that more of
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: a possibility next year, then you don't move them, and
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: you figure out two of the three that you're gonna
• 25:42
  Speaker 5: give extensions to and you start working toward that. That's
• 25:46
  Speaker 5: what I would do, because ideally I wouldn't trade any
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: of them. I think they're all winning baseball players that
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: make your team better and will be on your team
• 25:55
  Speaker 5: when you try to make that playoff push. And then
• 25:59
  Speaker 5: you know, twenty will it's twenty twenty seven. You know,
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: then Donnie's in his what that'd be is last year?
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: Am I right there?
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: Donnie's in his last year? And then that is actually
• 26:10
  Speaker 5: the year for me that you do like the Minnesota
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: Twins did in twenty nineteen. You go find those one
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: year deals that supplement your team and you give yourself
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: to make a chance make the playoffs. But then you
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: also have a plan B that you can pivot and
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: trade guys if you need to. So that would be
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: the year you have Donnie going into free agency. You've
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: got three or four other one year deals that make
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: your team better, and if they don't reach their ceiling
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: and you're five or six out at the deadline, then
• 26:36
  Speaker 5: you pivot and you go get players back for him.
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: But if it works out like it did first in
• 26:40
  Speaker 5: twenty nineteen, you go and you make the playoffs and
• 26:43
  Speaker 5: you give the Cardinals fans playoff baseball again. But you
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: haven't given away guys to mortgage the future. But those
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: three guys, to me, those are core guys that I
• 26:52
  Speaker 5: think create a culture. And I think it also shows
• 26:57
  Speaker 5: the young guys that if you do things right way
• 27:00
  Speaker 5: and you play hard, then you're gonna get rewarded. And
• 27:03
  Speaker 5: that's who we want to have around.
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Last thing, I'm just gonna get your guys take on
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: it real quick. I agree with you. I don't want
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: to see any of these guys go. But if I'm
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: I'm Bloom my number one priority because I'm trying to
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: do it exactly as Lance phrased it to me, right,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: I would say, all right, we have worrying about long
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: term and short term. Short term, what do we have
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: that fans are excited about jj weatherhol He's also part
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: of the long term. He's controllable. We think he's good
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: enough where he's gonna be a key part of the team.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: I would try to find a sustainable position for him.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: I believe that second base. Now that means maybe Donovan
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: could play. I'll feel I don't care who goes, but
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: that's one of my priorities is getting him that that
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: spot because he he checks both both boxes near future
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: for the fans but also long term and at the
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: same time pitching. They're gonna need more starting pitching.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: They got to make a deal. So Lance will tell
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: me where I'm wrong. Lance tell me if I'm on.
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: No, I think you're right. I think you're looking at.
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: The sense of where we're at is they need a
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: frontline ish young starting pitchers if they can give it
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: in the trade, and if you can't, then you supplement
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: it with some you know, guys that you know are
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: going to give you some innings. And that's that goes
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: to the same boat that Kyle's talking about. If you
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: get big league starters and they do what they're supposed
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: to do with the deadline, you trade him, and then
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: you just kind of keep adding prospects. I think, JJ,
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: you got to make a spot for him at second
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: or third, you know, whatever, which one that you ever
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: think that he's best positioned to be successful defensively, so
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: he doesn't have to worry about defense while he's trying
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: to figure out how to hit the big league level.
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: So whatever his most natural spot defensively, second or third,
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: he that's where he goes. And then you say, all right,
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: you're playing that position, and then now I'm going to
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: fill in around that with whoever I have left on
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: my roster. And I'm with Kyle too, is like, hey,
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: if you have all these guys available and then you
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: can figure out how to get them on extensions and
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: this and that, you're in a good spot, especially if
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: Nato and Contraras get traded this year and then you
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: figure out, Okay, who's a one year veteran, right handed
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: hitting bat that I know can teach these guys how
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: to be big leaders. A lah Hoskins is one of
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: Kyle's number one guys that he loves. That's a great
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: fit for Saint Louis and where they're at, and he
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: had an injury plagued season last year. That'll be a
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: great one year deal guy that can come in and
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: teach Burlson, Donnie all those guys what you know. They
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: can just be there for those guys as the year
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: goes on, and he can supplement as a right handed
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: bat against lefties because they're very left handed dominant. But
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: those guys are left handed dominant, but can play every
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: day and should play every day, every one of them.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: JJ Weatherholt Matt People say, seems like a fitted second base,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: maybe third base. Some people have said in the outfield,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: what do you see for him?
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: Well, I think he's played second has been the thing
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: that he's played the So anybody that's I mean, the
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: position that you've played the most in your life is
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: where you're gonna be the most comfortable. So if their
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: plan is for him to be of the opening day
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: roster next year, I think he would tell you the
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: position that he's most comfortable being in would be second base. Now,
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: I haven't seen him play enough defense in the minor
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: leagues to give you a, you know, a scouting report
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: on whether he should move to third or you know,
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: I have not seen him turn double plays enough to
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: tell you whether it's it's you know, it's efficient enough
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: to play second base. I think his you know, his
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: most value would be if he could stay at second.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: If you have a you know, a second baseman that
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: can hit you know, two to eighty with twenty, you know,
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: the kind of on the If that's what his you know,
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: he could do for you in the next couple of years,
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: that's a big weapon to have. So I would leave
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: him a second if if that was again, I have
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: not evaluated his defense enough to tell you whether he needs,
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: you know, to slide over to third or potentially to
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: left field or wherever. But I think he's played the
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: most second base in his life, and so that would
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: be probably where where he would be most comfortable if
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: he's the opening day roster next year.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Gentleman, Kyle did a fine job driving safely safely apparently
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: people do that all the time, and did the podcast.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: We appreciate it.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: We appreciate your guys input, and that's gonna do it
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: for this edition of Cardinal Territory. We'll have another one
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: in the near future, and hopefully that one won't suck