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Michigan Waves The White Flag: Jim Harbaugh's Suspension Continues · Buckeyes TomOrrow Morning

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Hey guys, it's Tom. This is a special bonus episode a little live
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emergency podcast that Kevin Noon that I did on Thursday afternoon after the news that
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Michigan was going to be dropping its temporary restraining order and Jim Harbaugh would not
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be coaching against Maryland or Ohio State in exchange for the Big Ten not pursuing
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the case against them. Now, it later came out that there's a little
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discrepancy in terms of what exactly that means, so we'll kind of continue to
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follow that. But this was sort of the immediate reaction, instant reaction show
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from Kevin and I. It's going to end a little suddenly when I drop
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off, but that was restrosured. That was my fault. I hit the
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wrong button. It's okay. You will get a good fifty minutes of conversation
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about the news, what we sort of think it might mean, and don't
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worry. We'll continue to follow this story as it continues to develop. Tony
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Gartaman and I will will we do something on Friday about it if there's some
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new developments on the Buckey Weekly podcast feed. But for now, enjoy this
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special bonus episode. How's it going everybody, Welcome to the Big Me kickoff.
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I am your host, Kevin Noon. I will be joined momentarily by
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one tom Or, who I already see in the green room. I just
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texted out I'm going live, and he's like, be right there. So
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let's bring in tom Or without any further ado, who is from some undisclosed
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jungle location. It appears, Tom How are you doing man? Yes,
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Kevin, I am coming to you live from one of Central Ohio's many ice
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rinks, the only place I spend all of my free time. So yes,
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there is music playing inside right now, which will probably be annoying and
1:45
distracting. So I am taking my chances with the Wi fi OUs Well we
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will. We will riot or die with that. I understand how that goes
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doing doing stuff out in the wild. I don't know why you're not being
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fed into my ears, So I will work on that as we kind of
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talk about things. But right off the bat, breaking news within the last
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couple few minutes, Jim Harbaugh will not be on the sideline the next two
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weeks. Very different statements. If you read what Michigan put out versus what
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the Big Ten put out. We have graphics for both of those. We
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will get to that wording here in a second. But Tom first initial thoughts.
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I mean, obviously it is big news. It's not big news when
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it came out that it was going to be a three game suspension, but
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he was going to be able to coach everything but the game. Everybody kind
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of thumb their nose at it. And then Michigan puts up a fight about
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it, and it seems they didn't have much fight in them, as they
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withdraw less than twenty four hours before the case. Well, it's interesting to
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see, you know, there has been this extreme you know, maintaining that
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there's absolutely nothing to see Jim Harbaugh, nothing linking Jim Harball. Michigan's statement
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says the conference is confirmed, it is not aware of information is suggesting coach
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Rpaul's involvement in the allegations. They were gonna fight. They're gonna fight to
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the death. No one is a bigger fan, no one is more innocent
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Jim Harbaugh, and no one is a bigger fan of due process than Michigan.
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The University of Michigan, Santa onno is going to go to bat Forum.
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They are ready to go to the mattresses and then here we are a
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day before the hearing. They didn't get their emergency reporter last Friday. We're
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a day away, and all of a sudden, history's biggest fans of due
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process now are going to just punt on all of this and listen, it's
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only two more games. How bad could it be? And you know what
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I think is most interesting to me is part of this statement is Difference agreed
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to close its investigation and the University of Coach Harbaugh agreed to accept the three
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game suspension. To me, that certainly raises Yeah, here's the statement.
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I'll just read it in its entirety. This morning, the University, coachar
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Ball, and the Big Ten they're pending litigation. Conference free to close its
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investigation. The university and coach Arba agreed to accept free game suspension. Coacharball,
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with the university support, decided to accept this sanction to return the focus
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to our student athletes and performance on the field. The conference has confirmed that
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it is not aware of any information suggesting Coach Charbro's involvement in the allegations.
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The university continues to cooperate fully with the ncuba's investigation. Okay, so my
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question would be, you know, what else are they concerned if there's nothing
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else out there? You know, if Jim Harbour's completely and this has all
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of an enormous violation of his rights and due process and all that kind of
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stuff, and they're not concerned there's anything else out there that's going to blow
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up, blow up? Why make this move now? Why why wave the
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white flag and say, okay, he's going to serve this two game suspension
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that just last week was history's greatest injustice? Why is why did this all
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change now? And you know, we have been very very careful not to
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speculate on things, but the fact that Jim Harbaugh waving the white flag on
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this this fight that they were going to fight to the death twenty four hours
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ago, it feels like the Big ten is going to close. This investigation
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is certainly related in some way to the Jim Harborough suddenly doing a one to
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eighty on waving the white flag here. And if you're extremely confident there's nothing
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else to be found in the short to medium term that might be significant enough
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to impact this season, I don't know why you would do that. Well,
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I'll throw two things as I'm scrambling trying to get graphics put in here
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for this. This show was not planned to go at this point. Was
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not expecting this. I was expecting to hear all sorts of details as I
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was going to be driving somewhere tomorrow around the time of this court case.
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It's you figure that a Michigan does not want to go through discovery on this.
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I mean, obviously, once you get in there and you put your
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cards out on the table, that is an issue, and be the Big
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Ten lays out things because even though this isn't necessarily I guess, I mean,
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and I, as I've said on the show before, I slept through
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journalism law the first time. I had to take it a second time,
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but I didn't take any real law courses. You know, the Big Ten
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has its hand and Michigan is able to see parts of it of what's going
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to be there, and it's like, eh, Chari Moore is pretty good
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at doing this stuff. Let's not get ourselves dragged here. But you sit
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there and you look at what the Big Ten statement is, and certain pieces
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of the Michigan statement are are omitted from what we see in the Big Ten
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statement, and you know that's not necessarily a case of you know, the
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Big Ten didn't say that they were completely closing their investigation or the I mean,
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I guess they are, but that you know that there was no evidence
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of Harbaugh's involvement. Let's, you know, let's pull that one up here
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really quick as I try to close off my my DMS as people are blowing
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me up right now, and I'll read it because I'm not outside of a
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rank right now. The Big Ten conferences commitment to student athletes, sportsmanship,
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and the commissioner's duty to protect the integrity of competition will never waiver. To
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Day's decision by the University of Michigan to withdraw its legal challenge against the conferences
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November tenth notice of disciplinary action is indicative of the high standards and values that
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the conference and the university seeked up bold. The University of Michigan is a
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valued member of the Big Ten Conference, and the conference will continue to work
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cooperatively with the university and the NC two A during this process. So I
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don't know about you. I may be a small town pizza law but that
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doesn't sound really you know, like the same statement, or am I am
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I blinded for the you know, for in the forest for the trees.
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Yeah, I mean the absence of the Big Ten in its own statement talking
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about giving up, you know, closing its own investigation. That's interesting.
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I mean, that's I guess Michigan putting that in there as part of their
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explanation as to why. And there's an important distinction here and if if my
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signal is going out, punched me out of the show, and I'll I'll
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try and find a better signal. But if you know, I think that's
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indicative of Michigan maybe sort of telling the Michigan fans who are wondering, hey,
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why are you stopping fighting right now? If you are going to fight
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to the death twenty four hours ago? That feels like that as a no,
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only here's the why, like and we're not gonna speculate on exactly what
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the you know, what else is out there that might be causing them to
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do that, But that sure feels like the logical explanation to me. And
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you know, there are a couple of people in the comments asking, yeah,
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Patri says, NCUBA still investigating, investigating, I believe, and JJ
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says, so the conference closer investigation. But I'm guessing the NCAA is not
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done. That is all correct. The Big Ten was sort of the immediate
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here, and now we can we can levy a punishment under the sportsmanship clause
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immediately with us and Tom Froze will give them a second. Yeah, the
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full ninety day response from the NC Double A or from the school to the
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NC DOUBLEA, where that process is going to drag out six, twelve,
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eighteen months, whatever it is, the Big Ten can do it now and
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have an immediate punishment. That's the Big Tens role as compared to the NC
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double hit role. So yes, none of this has any impact on the
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NC DOUBLEA investigation. That just that just is something that would impact potentially the
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twenty twenty four season and beyond. The Big Ten punishment is just twenty twenty
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three. And to me, this is certainly suggestive of Michigan wants to make
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sure the punishment for twenty twenty three ends at a three game suspension for Jim
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Harbaugh and doesn't you know, doesn't get any further than that, and the
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investigation doesn't dig any deeper than that at least right now, trying to you
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know, keep the twenty twenty three season as much intact as possible and trying
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to win a championship now, and you know, twenty twenty four, you
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know, that's that's next year, next year, Santa onno A, next
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year ward manual, the next year. Jim Harbaugh's problem, and you know,
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and that's the thing is that the NC two A is not done.
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You know, there's certainly a lot of various versions of things that are going
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on out there, things that we cannot coroborate. So you know, we've
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certainly tried to give a wide berth, I mean, talk about the things
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that you know or that you have pretty well and not get involved in some
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of these other aspects. But you know, the n C two A certainly
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moves at a glacial pace in terms of how it goes about things. As
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common mentioned ninety days, I mean, we cut off on there, so
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maybe it didn't come through to everybody, but you get ninety days on the
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notice of allegations, and it's I mean, it's it's a process. And
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three games from the Big Ten ends at the end of the Big Ten regular
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season. So if Michigan were to win its next two games, which obviously
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would mean a win over Ohio State prevailing knowledge would say then there would not
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be a suspension for a Big Ten championship game, and essentially the way that
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the NC two A works, there wouldn't be anything in place there. So
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it would be something of if Michigan were to win the Big Ten et cetera,
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et cetera, et cetera, all of that stuff would be handled in
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the rears as opposed to kind of moving forward. But again, the you
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know, I want to kind of focus on the conversation about the Big Tens
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investigation being done, and you know that's coming from Michigan and not coming from
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from the Big Ten, so you I mean, there is I think some
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room for at least for discussion on what that means. And you know,
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I really wish that it were a situation of where we could dial in Tony
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Batiti and say what exactly does this mean, or at least a media relations
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person who could sit there and and and sort that out, because again,
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it does sound like there are several things in play if the Coco's coming to
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get the guy. Uh, you know, there are several things in play
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of what you know, what would be happening here over and above just the
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Connor Stallion thing. And we're not that far removed from some people saying that
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Michigan was exonerated for Connors Stallions never never filed an expense report. With the
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course of all the reports out there, we know the expense report is by
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far the most sacred and binding of all of those. Yeah, you know,
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there there are You get the sense that people are looking for whatever they
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can get to support whatever, you know, pre existing position they have entrenched
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themselves in. And that was one where I mean, yeah, that's certainly
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better than if he had had expense reports like signed by Jim Hart that said
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illegal scouting. But I don't think I was really expecting that. So,
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you know, an interesting statement this is from Dan Wetzel, who has you
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know, if we're I'm not going to say he has been on the pro
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Michigan side, but a lot of his reporting has sort oflined with having sources
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in Michigan, and this is, you know, sort of how they're going
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to probably spin this Big Ten slash Michigan slash Harbaugh agreement essentially ends the battle,
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at least for now. Big Ten gets his three game suspension of Harbaugh.
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Michigan slash Harbaugh don't have to fear future suspensions should they get into playoff
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and further evidence where allegations arise. So, you know, I think that's
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basically what what I said earlier in terms of like what what the explanation would
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be from their side, And that to me suggests there's a sense that other
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stuff is out there that you know that you can say I didn't have anything
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to do with it. I didn't know anything about it. No one,
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no one notified this office of anything, you know, the you know,
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the uh John Candy outside of Wally World. I you know that, that
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to me is certainly suggestive of there is at least a very real concern from
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Michigan that there is some other there other is other unexploded ordinance around and they
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don't want anyone know, digging around with the mind the mind seeking equipment to
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try and find it. That's you know that you don't you don't won eighty
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on something like that where this is a deeply held matter principle during your Monday
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press conference and you went to civics class and you remember the you know,
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the innocent until proven guilty and you're you know, you're totally innocent, and
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then that's on Monday, and then here we are on Thursday and you're waving
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the white flag like that. That to me suggests more than just a theoretical
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you know, hey, hypothetically there might be something else out there. That
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to me suggests there probably is a real sense that there's something else out there
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and you're just trying to get through this season and then you deal with it
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after the season. Is that's certainly how it feels to me. I got
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a couple of thoughts, but I want to get to the to the super
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chats. We've got Ja M three T, Jim's or Ben we Tom Pop
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popped out for a second, but we got Jim and BTFO. You're just
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gonna have to go to Urban Dictionary to see what that means. But it
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means that he's in trouble. It's Jim over. So thank you for the
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super chat. I'm not going to use the full acronym there. It is
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a bit of a family show, so we will do that. Let's go
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here to Jeff Hines. I understand that this move by UM comes on the
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heels of mcqua investigating interviewing players and potentially granting immunity. Now I've heard that
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story I you know, I can't confirm it. I don't know necessarily everything
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that's going on there. Tom has punched himself back into the show. But
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I will reread this while Thom is here, and I have a feeling he
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has kind of the same stance I do. Here. I understand that the
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group by Michigan excuse me, comes on the heels of mc QUA interviewing players
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and potentially granting community. Yeah, you know, there's a lot of moving
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pieces here, but that certainly felt like it could potentially be a consequential one.
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And we don't know right now who they've talked to, if they've talked
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to anyone, you know, what those players might know, what those players
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might have said like that. This is all very much in the realm of
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the speculative. If you're looking for what has changed between Monday and Thursday,
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where something has changed. Obviously, if the position of the university and the
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position Jim Harbal has changed as much as it seemingly has, that's certainly one
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of the things that you could put on the list of potential explanations. You
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know that something else has come up. Either their attorneys were telling them last
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Friday, this is a cakewalk absolutely you'll be fine, and then decided for
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some reason that something had changed or something else has come up that they don't
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want to you know, they don't want people going down that path right now.
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That is certainly to be a possible explanation. It's certainly far from a
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proven explanation. But you know that that's typically how the n C double A
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operates is you go in, you talk to people, you offer immunity,
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and that's you know, that's how a lot of the NCAA investigations go because
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the NC double A doesn't have subpoena power. So the n C double A
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can only offer you know, the n C DOUAA can't compel you to talk
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under you know, the punishment of going to prison or something like that.
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They can only say, hey, if you talk anything you say, if
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you might have worked in a violation, you're not you know, you won't
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get punished for it. It's you know, it's like being a you know,
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being in the court and you know, flipping on your co conspirator or
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something like that. That's that's the leverage that the n C double A has
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is well, you know, we could suspend you for fill in the blank
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violation or whatever, but we won't if you cooperate. That's that's what that
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is. We don't know, you know, we obviously don't have any idea
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right now who they talk to, what they're talking about, whether they got
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anything related to this, whether that's you know, whether that's related it all
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to the change in tone, But you know, the timing is interesting,
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to say the least. Super chat from uptown Daniel next step Harbaugh will resign.
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Well, I don't think there's any reason for him to resign until Michigan
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plays its final game this season. He's going to set out these couple of
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games. Is there really any difference whether or not he resigns after the Ohio
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State game or you know, after a bowl game, after a Big ten
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championship game, whatever, whatever that may be. I don't think that.
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I don't think we're going to see that range there, And I think personally
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it's more likely that you know, I've had everybody in their uncle tell me
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multiple times, NFL don't care about this stuff. But then again, we've
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seen some stories from writers NFL dot com or whatever that that penalties, if
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there were suspensions issued, could follow them. There is precedence for that.
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I mean, we've certainly seen that before of penalties following you from one level
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to the next level. But you know, I'll let Tom comment on that.
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But then I want to kind of get into university President Santa Onna going
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all in on everything and just now everything kind of having an about face.
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But your thoughts on on uptown Daniels super chat there. I don't see any
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real reason, but now this has been resolved at least through the balance of
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the regular issues, because the NCAA can't again can't punish him short term.
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The only the only entity that could have punished him, other than the University
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of Michigan, which has not seemed overly inclined to be real aggressive with punishments
20:52
on its own folks, it is the Big Ten, and as the Big
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Ten has agreed to push, you know, to take the three games,
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the existing three games, and not keep digging, not keep going further.
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And you know, at least according to the Michigan statement, So assuming that's
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accurate, then there's really no reason for him to bail on the season or
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to bail on the team. You know, you get through the Maryland game
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without him, you get through the Autistic game without him, and then either
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they're going to Indianapolis, so they're not, but if they are, then
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he's going with them. And then you know, wherever they're going for a
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bowl or a college football playoff or whatever after that, he's going with them.
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So there's no really no reason for him to bail now because the Big
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Ten, again, assuming the Michigan statement is accurate, the Big Ten has
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agreed to not pursue anything else and not pursue any further punishment. So therefore
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the Big Ten can't do it. The NCAA can't do it based on their
21:45
bylaws and the timetables set forth on all this stuff. So then the only
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entity that could, you know, other than Jim Harboss, you know,
21:55
stepping down himself, the only entity that could punish him at this point would
21:59
be Michigan, you know, the University of Michigan itself, which I don't
22:03
get the sense they would be overly inclined to do. We'll get to my
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Santa ownA thing after we get through the super chat from David Greenshield. Any
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thoughts on why the Big Ten didn't go after Jeron Moore or Jesse mentor they
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were directly involved with Stallion. Well, you know, I don't know if
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we necessarily know how the flow chart works when it comes to whose Stallion was
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involved with and who's not. If you listen to certain people on the other
22:29
side of this, he was a lone wolf. I mean, you know,
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we've certainly seen him images of him standing next to coordinators and and you
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know plays apparently being changed at that point. But do we have the the
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entire picture, do we know the entire story? But you know, it
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certainly would feel like that there are more things involved. I know Chris ballas
22:51
of the Wolverine part of the On three network was saying something about an assistant
22:56
being involved. I mean, but there's there's a lot of there's a lot
22:59
of speculation. I think there's a lot of leaping to conclusions and just things
23:03
that, you know, to go back to something that the market X post
23:07
is being appreciative that we're trying to stick to the facts, and that's you
23:11
know, just kind of where where we are. I mean, it's we
23:14
all come from news backgrounds, and it's not you know, this isn't necessarily
23:18
you know, Super Fan ninety nine fan page in terms of that, and
23:22
you know, there's a place for those and you know, people seem to
23:25
enjoy them, but we enjoy coming at this maybe more from from our backgrounds.
23:30
Were comm and I both worked in television for for quite some time,
23:33
so we you know, we kind of had that all beaten into us three
23:37
years and years of employment. Yeah. And and I think having followed college
23:45
football and having followed college football message boards and message board culture and Twitter and
23:52
all of that over the last several decades, I think the one thing that
23:56
has been the consistent threat in all of this is if you just buy into
24:03
everything you see immediately, that is a very good way to be you know,
24:07
feel very stupid, very quickly. And you know, go and check
24:11
when you see something on Twitter, go and check it just because you see
24:15
a screenshot, go and check the primary source of it like that. That's
24:18
just sort of the responsible way to do this, because otherwise what happens is
24:22
you get your brain filled with so many different pieces of that information and conflicting
24:27
that information that you don't have a clue what's true and what's not. And
24:33
you know, I think also understanding how the reporting on this works, because
24:37
when I talk about you know, for example, Dan Wetzell earlier I talked
24:42
about Dan Wetzel. A lot of Dan Wetzell's reporting has seemingly been coming from
24:47
the Michigan side of things, just based on the sourcing, based on the
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topics of his thing, based on some of the tone of his reporting,
24:53
it's clear that he's getting most events of information from the Michigan side of things.
24:56
Pete Fammeill very clearly is getting his stuff more or from the Big Ten
25:02
or non Michigan side of things, and Richard Johnson has tent from Sports Illustrated
25:07
to tend to be more on the Michigan side of things. It just,
25:08
you know, the Washington Post report came out that was very obviously the Big
25:11
Ten side of things. Understanding who people are talking to and where their information
25:17
is coming from, and then why is this information coming out now? Like
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that's that's an important part of sort of analyzing all these stories and taking a
25:25
little bit of time to think that through and not just chasing every last little
25:29
thing and just immediately buying anything you see that happens to agree with your preconceived
25:34
side of the story. Like that's that's an important part of not looking like
25:40
an idiot long term. So that's part of that as far as the coordinators
25:45
and why aren't the coordinators the previous super chat In terms of why aren't the
25:48
coordinators suspended, there is you know, yes, they were on the sidelines
25:53
next to Connor Stallion's and very clearly were interacting with him. And that's you
25:59
know, I put those pictures out a couple of weeks ago, which feels
26:03
like three months ago now. But the point of putting those pictures out was
26:08
this is not some low level nobody Conner Stallions, because that was the narrative
26:11
at the time was this is some low level nobody. Nobody even know who
26:14
this guy was, And it didn't matter the fact that he's talking to the
26:18
coordinators in the sidelines. That means he's not a low level nobody. You
26:22
do not have low love of nobody's talking to coordinators, especially play after play
26:26
after play during course of the game. So that's what that established. That
26:29
did not establish that Sharon Moore and Jesse Minter were knowingly supporting the breaking of
26:37
the rule. That's because you could theoretically be stealing signs in advance. You
26:41
can theoretically from TV copy from MUL twenty two, whatever it is, you
26:45
could theoretically be steeling the steins in game. That doesn't necessarily establish that those
26:49
guys had direct knowledge of the illegal portion of this, which was the in
26:55
person scouting and the electronic scouting. They're very well made, but that probably
26:59
is going to involved electronic, you know, an electronic pathway to it.
27:04
Other emails, are their techs are there? You know, do they have
27:07
access to something like that. That's the kind of stuff that's going to ultimately
27:10
get those guys in trouble. And right now, I don't think the investigation
27:12
has gotten to the point where it has been proven that either of those guys
27:15
did or didn't have that kind of access or that kind of knowledge. So
27:22
that's that's why those guys aren't being polished right now. Harbaugh, as the
27:25
head coach, is responsible under NC double A rules where everything happens with this
27:30
program. So that's why he's into this. You know, even though the
27:33
Big ten says, you know, Michigan says that there's no knowledge, you
27:37
know, the Big Ten says there's no direct link between Harbaugh and Stallions or
27:41
any rule breaking, he as the head coach under NC double A rules,
27:45
is still responsible for everything that happens in this program, so he would be
27:49
responsible for that. Michigan had previously, in one of their legal filings argued,
27:53
well, that's not a Big ten rules, so you can't apply that.
27:57
But now if they're punting this case, obviously they don't. You know.
28:00
One of the possible explanations is they don't feel like they have a winning
28:03
legal case, which means that that argument may not end up holding water.
28:08
Yeah, and I don't think that they want to sit there and get into
28:11
a situation where what we're putting down a three game suspension and you do get
28:15
something and we get to a point where you're on the sideline from Maryland,
28:21
does you know what to carry over? I mean, I don't know.
28:22
I do want to get to the Santono thing. But here, but as
28:26
you know, super chats get you to the top. And with over seven
28:29
hundred of you here on this chat right now, this very impromptly chat,
28:33
I'm certainly not going to be able to see every question that comes through.
28:37
Superchats do get noticed because they turn colors in my little chat que So,
28:41
Brian Cooker, the only thing that changed to make this deal happen is they
28:45
ten agreed to drop the matter ensuring that the Michigan season won't be effected.
28:52
Yeah, I mean that certainly does seem like a pretty clear, you know,
28:57
line to draw between those two things. That's a you know, what's
29:02
the what's the A good A good compromise league evil and unhappy? Well,
29:06
the Big Ten, you know, it gives Michigan something, assuming this is
29:10
this the real stakes of the deal. It's Michigan something to say, Okay,
29:14
you want, that'll be it and you'll get We'll get through this season
29:17
because that was the big that was their big thing and totally unfair to impact
29:19
the season and these these kids have worked too hard and YadA, YadA,
29:22
YadA. So now, based on the Michigan statement, it seems like this
29:27
season is not going to be impacted beyond just Jim Harbaugh and not being of
29:30
the pops the next two weeks. Okay, so that's their side. The
29:33
Big Ten doesn't have to have a public court fight with Michigan, which is
29:38
probably in everyone's best interest anyway. And till last week, there was a
29:45
I think it was a Michigan player who had a jersey with four and Harbor
29:52
in the back and flee Harbaugh and go in front of the jersey with a
29:55
tape over the Big Ten logo. And that's something that like Indiana did for
29:59
their bowl game in twenty twenty after the Big Ten didn't let them play in
30:03
the Big Ten championship game that year. You know, that's just a big,
30:08
ugly public fight between one of your teams and your conference. Is not
30:12
a good thing. That is not a good thing for anyone involved. I'm
30:15
sure no one was super enthusiastic about going into Discovery for you know, whatever
30:22
might come out of that. And I'm sure for Michigan, you know,
30:26
having this wrapped up for this season with it just being a Jim Harball thing
30:30
and nothing else, that's probably you know, I mean, you don't know
30:36
what the downside is. They had. I remember someone telling talking to me
30:40
at one point, the financial guy I knew talking to me at one point
30:45
about a you know, one of the big federal bailouts, and he said,
30:48
you know, what's the cost of doing this? And the cost was
30:52
whatever the cost was, and it was like, what's the cost of not
30:55
doing this? And you know, this is like the two thousand and seven
30:59
financial crisis, what's the cost of not doing this? And that the answer
31:02
to that was unknown, could be theoretically unlimited. So for Michigan, what's
31:07
the cost of doing this no more Jim Harball for the next two days.
31:10
What's the cost of not doing this? Unknown? Could be Jim Harbaugh for
31:15
thrust the season, could be someone else gets implicated, could be players,
31:21
could be who knows to call you know. So that's why you know,
31:26
if you are concerned that there could be something else out there, that to
31:30
me is why you're looking at making this, you know, at making this
31:34
deal to make whatever theoretical future downside there could be for the rest of this
31:40
season. Make that go away as a super chat here in a second,
31:48
but I want to welcome everybody once again here to make me kicked off.
31:51
I'm Kevin Newton and joined by Tom Moore. We're here on breaking news.
31:53
Jim Harbaugh will not see on the sidelines for the Marrowing game or the Ohio
31:57
State game, as Michigan has with drawn it's court case against the conference in
32:04
Ostra Saw County, where Ann Arbor is in Michigan. Do us a favor.
32:08
If you're watching on YouTube, hit that thumbs up. Be sure to
32:12
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32:23
So all of that is much appreciated. Helped us with our distribution to everybody.
32:29
Jeff Hines on the super Chat themes, the Big ten would seems that
32:32
Big ten would mention if the investigation is over, and I mean, yeah,
32:37
I guess you would think they would say that, But I think they're
32:39
also trying to put their own message out at this point. To Tom's earlier
32:44
point before we reset at the half hour, the Big ten is also thinking
32:51
about the big picture, down the line of making sure that it is a
32:57
whole conference, a conference that is growing to eighteen ten teams with the addition
33:00
of the four West Coast teams. You know, they can be angry at
33:06
Jim Harbaugh, and they can be angry at Michigan and everything else. But
33:09
on top of that, you have to think about what life afterwards is going
33:15
to be like. You can be at war in World War two, you
33:20
know that you're going to have to drop a bomb on your enemy, but
33:23
there's going to be life after war as well too. You do not want
33:28
to sit there and send everything into smoldering ruins beyond repair. I'm gonna throw
33:32
things at Tom because I know his time is limited because he is at hockey
33:37
or is it is it hockey or is it figure skating practice. I know
33:39
both your kids are are are rink rapt. I am at one rink right
33:44
now for figure skating, and then I have to jump off in about twenty
33:47
minutes, and then I have to drive home and pick up my other kid
33:51
and drag him to a completely separate rink of completely separate other side of town
33:54
for hockey. So yes, this is welcome, Welcome to my life.
33:59
I saw your teach message come through, but I'm blind as a bat,
34:01
so I couldn't read it. So I just but I want to throw things
34:05
to you. I want to get through a couple of points. I can't
34:07
promise that we're going to do a two hour show. I mean I could
34:09
probably go for a half hour forty five minutes on questions if I have to
34:13
go solo. But Tom has been on top of so much of this.
34:15
He's been our ten point three point two guru with all of the rules.
34:19
Somebody said they wanted you to read that in your ben Stein voice. We
34:22
will get to all of that at some other point, but you know,
34:27
defines a statement, and then we'll kind of get into Michigan going all in
34:30
and then kind of having to withdraw a little bit. Yeah, So Jeff
34:35
Hines says, seems the Big Ten would mention if the investigation was over,
34:37
and can you punch up the Big Ten statements for us? Because that was
34:42
that was interesting because I had not seen the Big Ten statement until you punch
34:45
it up earlier. But yeah, Michigan very prominently mentioned in their thing that
34:49
the Big Ten has agreed to kind of close the investigation for now. The
34:52
Big Ten Conference statement says the Big Ten's conference's commitment to student athletes, sportsmanship,
34:57
and the Commissioner's duty to protect the integrity propeliction will never waiver. Today's
35:00
decision by the University of Michigan withdraw its legal challenge against the conferences and without
35:05
the tenth notice aar disiplinary action is indicative of the high standards and values that
35:08
the conference and the university seek to hold the University of Michigan as a valued
35:13
member of the Big Ten conference in the conference will continue to work cooperatively with
35:15
the university and the NCAA during this process. So yeah, very conspicuously absent
35:22
from that is any mention of the Big Ten closing its investigation right now,
35:29
which is really interesting to me. I guess that it probably is. I
35:36
mean, you would certainly assume that that Michigan statement would be accurate. I
35:39
don't. I think it would be very really really stupid for them to lie.
35:45
And that's the kind of thing do we get called out on very immediately.
35:46
So you know, the Big Ten is not necessarily inclined to give you
35:52
the why behind why this got resolved the way it did, whereas Michigan,
35:58
you know, this is a this is a win for the Big Ten,
36:00
and you know, just in terms of the top line of the appeal was
36:04
going to be dropped, the temporary restraining MOTAR request is going to be dropped,
36:07
so that the top one is they win for the Big Tens, and
36:08
the Big doesn't really need to explain the why behind it. The Big Ten
36:12
can just go, you know, fly the w as the you know,
36:15
as the folks on the North side of Chicago do, like you know,
36:20
fly that w flag. We have to win and that's it. And for
36:23
Michigan, this isn't this is the top line. That's an l for them
36:29
because this is they were going to fight. This was going to be you
36:30
know, this is an innocent man. This is due grievous violation of due
36:36
process. So they have to give you an answer as to why, because
36:38
otherwise it's you know, otherwise the why is everyone starts really speculating on Okay,
36:45
well why would they do this? And they have to give you some
36:47
kind of a reason that gives that gives you a reason that gives you a
36:52
tangible Okay, here's what we got back in exchange for you know, you
36:57
know the you know, we have given you the island of manhatt and look,
37:00
beads and trinkets and that. You know, you have to have something
37:05
to show your people if you are the ones who are kind of superficially on
37:08
this one taking a pretty big L back to you know, the point I
37:15
wanted to make. And of course super chats we'll get to the top of
37:17
the queue. But Santa Dono, the university president, came out. He
37:22
was one of the people to hashtag bet along with all the other players in
37:27
terms of not the type of betting that you know you're going to think of,
37:30
but the current hip vernacular. And it's already kind of started on social
37:36
and I'm not really being able to monitor social because I'm doing six things at
37:38
once. Michigan fans are like, I thought you were all in and you're
37:43
going to go to the mat, and now you know you're backing off.
37:45
So so what what kind of message does this send? And I mean,
37:51
how did Michigan really try to spin control this maybe over and above its own
37:54
statement by I say, look, you know, the season isn't ruined.
37:59
You know, every think all of our goals are still in front of us,
38:01
all of everything we're going for. But they really kind of painted themselves
38:07
into a corner and now it's like, all right, well, you're going
38:10
to have to fight your way out of it one way or the other because
38:15
you've all you've all gotten onto this boat and been set adrift and it's taken
38:20
on water. Yeah. I want to get to this real quick. From
38:27
the College Football Modes Twitter account, those guys have had, I mean,
38:30
those guys have had some pretty strong news on this, and they have not
38:31
been pro Michigan News for any reason. But this is an interesting way to
38:37
frame this. Realize this quote unquote settlement was Michigan saying, quote will accept
38:42
the full penalties you levied if you agree to stop the investigation and not forced
38:45
us to testify. This points to Michigan realizing one they're screwed on the merits,
38:50
and two they really don't want to testify under oath. And that's that's
38:57
a you know, there's been a lot of talk about discovery and you're not
39:00
wanting stuff to come out, and Discovery not want to testify under the oath
39:05
is an interesting point to this because here's the thing. We don't know what's
39:09
still to come out. There's a lot of stuff that we don't know.
39:12
Right now. We have it feels like we have, you know, publicly,
39:15
about three percent of the information we're going to have by the time the
39:19
NCAA investigation is over. So what else is there in the whatever computer records,
39:25
in the emails, in the text messages, you know, we we
39:30
know, boy did they get the Baya back real quickly on Connor's Diane's eapense
39:32
reports, so that that was lightning speed. What else is in there?
39:37
And what do they know is in there, if anything that would be incriminating
39:42
that they don't want to testify in you know that that might you testify and
39:46
then that turns out not to be true later And what do they not know
39:51
that's in there? And we don't know any of that? These are you
39:53
know, this is the old uh, you know, the known unknowns and
39:57
the unknown unknowns. We have known unknowns and unknowns right now on all of
40:00
this stuff. And that might be a little bit of a you know law.
40:07
Yes, it mitigates your short term downside by presumably keeping Michigan from getting
40:15
punished any further during the twenty twenty three season. Now the twenty twenty three
40:20
season plays out and they get to, you know, make their run at
40:22
the big name championship, the national championship and all that kind of stuff.
40:27
But also it potentially limits your liability down the line. And I am not
40:30
an attorney, and I thought that was an interesting point there that you don't
40:36
necessarily want to go on the record before you really know all the information.
40:42
And I don't know that they know all the information, and so I mean,
40:47
there's so much to come there. And again, the Big ten really
40:52
only has the purview right now to put this in on the sportsmanship policy.
40:57
There's no I've not sat there and go on through all of the big ten
41:00
bylaws and everything else, but the n C two A certainly has much wider
41:06
scope and everything else that are that are going on there. You know,
41:08
things, things are happening fast and furious. My text messages are blowing up.
41:13
I can't get to them right now. Your your text message is Tony
41:15
saying that he can be he can hop on shortly after I have to leave.
41:20
Well, I saw that one, and so we're going to try to
41:22
go before that happens. I know, we'll we'll, we'll, we'll,
41:25
we'll, we'll keep it. We'll keep it going for sure. You know,
41:29
maybe we do end up with the two hour show, and when when
41:31
Tom tags out and Tony tags in, you know, at some point everybody's
41:36
going to have to have a nourishment break and we'll see, you know,
41:38
more news comes out, maybe another show this evening. I know I would
41:42
like to have a couple of pops, so you know, we'll see,
41:45
we'll see where this goes. But I think everybody is processing everything that's coming
41:50
out right now. I know that there are certainly three sides. I mean,
41:53
they're they're they're very definitive camps. There's the Michigan camp of where they
41:59
this hasn't been big deal. We're absolutely going to get this temporary restraining order.
42:02
This you know, just just wait till we counter sue. I mean,
42:07
and now you know the Big Ten comes or the Michigan comes and pulls
42:10
out of this situation. Obviously, there's the Ohio state side, and I
42:15
think there's split sides on there. There's certainly a group of Ohio state people
42:17
that want Jim Harbaugh on the sideline. They want every possible thing there for
42:22
a potential Ohio State win. And then you have this huge group of people
42:27
who are on the national side. And I've had a lot of people like
42:30
I don't care about this. I'm like, and you're lying to my face
42:34
right now when you say that, because this is one of the most interesting,
42:37
intriguing, unprecedented things that we see. And and I just see that
42:42
Tom posted something from l Suzabo, a longtime friend of the show. Stuart
42:45
Mandel just put out a statement to be clear, there was no settlement between
42:51
the Big Ten and UM. This was straight up capitulation by um. Well,
42:57
so this is I assume she's referring to twenty three minutes ago a tweet
43:07
from Catherine Briley, who is the freelance editor of the Athletic College Football says,
43:15
per the Washington County Courthouse, the University of Michigan Harball voluntarily dismissed their
43:20
complaint against the Big Ten. But the last thing that Stu Mandel has up
43:23
there is it's win win for all parties. The Big Ten gets up called
43:28
the suspension, Michigan is assured nothing more comes out in discovery, and the
43:30
lawyers collected we're a week's worth of Bible hours. So that's not necessarily the
43:37
same thing. Yeah, he he deleted a tweet at some point somewhat recently,
43:45
so that may be inaccurate that he is. You know that that's not
43:51
true. So so yeah, that's so glass Wind Butterfly said she missed the
43:59
news. Just news is Jim Harball and Michigan have given up. They've waived
44:02
the white flag and are withdrawn their temporary restraining order for the suspension for his
44:09
the next two games, so he would be out. He will be out
44:13
for the Michigan the Michigan Maryland game this week and then the Michigan Ohio State
44:17
game next week, and then after that he would be back. So that's
44:22
that's where that is right now. That's the that's the news. And I
44:28
was going to punch him up Menmax says. It sounds like the Big Ten
44:31
isn't going to promish further even if something new comes out. I guess they
44:35
follow Double Jeopardy. I mean, that's this is not a mission, This
44:40
is not a Jim Harbor and Michigan are out of the woods by any means.
44:45
The fact that we're talking about this already, that you know, the
44:49
fact that Michigan is willing to wave the white flag on this in exchange for
44:53
you know, according to their statement, the Big Ten kind of getting rid
44:57
of the investigation and you know, putting the paws on investigation and not digging
45:00
before there. That certainly is suggestive that they are concerned that there may be
45:05
more out there. But none of this has any impact on the Ncuba investigation,
45:08
which is just barely started. They are just starting to work right now.
45:14
That is an investigation that was going on before the Big Ten investigation.
45:17
That investigation was going on before the before the you know, any of this
45:22
came out publicly because the NCAA gave its you know, some of some of
45:28
the tiktoks that have come out. The NCAA gave their results of their investigation
45:32
to the Big Ten. And look, the Big Ten sort of takes some
45:35
immediate action on it because the the ncuble A has to go through a very
45:40
specific process. They have to do the investigation, then they have to issue
45:45
a notice of allegation that there's an official document saying here is all the bad
45:49
things that you did or that we say that you did, and then the
45:52
school that's ninety days to respond. So this is not to say this is
45:58
it Jim Harpo just gets games and that's the only punishment. Mission that that
46:01
is absolutely not the case. That is this is you know, according to
46:06
the Michigan and say that this is all that is going to happen right now.
46:12
That doesn't mean, you know, there could be a whole mess of
46:14
other stuff that comes out next year. The nc double A is you know,
46:19
reportedly talking to players, reportedly talking to other folks about you know,
46:24
uh, you know, granting immunity and all of that kind of stuff.
46:29
So all of that is still to come. So that that's a very important
46:34
distinction. That Big ten punishment and investigation are entirely separate, you know,
46:38
from NC double A. Uh, you know, potential punishments to still to
46:43
come. And you know, the thing is that a metomch uses the term
46:47
double jeopardy, which obviously is very valid in terms of the legal system,
46:53
but that we're not while the US legal system was involved in terms of trying
46:59
to get the cro to, you know, to get the injunction and everything
47:02
else, when it comes to the investigation that the Big ten does or the
47:07
n C two A does, there's not double jeopardy. And the thing is
47:10
is that, all right, maybe the Big ten is like, well,
47:13
we're done looking at the Connors Stallions thing. But what happens if something else
47:16
comes out? There could be another set of penalties that come out out of
47:21
that. So to Tom's point, Michigan is not out of the woods.
47:23
Jim Harbaugh's not out of the woods. This is you know, this is
47:28
just a chapter break. This is not the end of the book. I
47:30
mean, I mean this this really could just be a paragraph break if we're
47:35
being quite honest in terms of where this whole journey is going to go and
47:39
I'll let you read that one. Yeah, I don't have very many rules
47:44
in life, but if you make an outstanding, very minute niche Arrested Development
47:50
joke in the comments, who are going to get punched up on the screen
47:52
market X rest Development taught me you can't convict two coaches of the same crime.
47:55
That was an old fit from Rested Development, like fifteen twenty years ago
48:00
now where George, the patriarch of the family, leans in he's in prison
48:07
and leans into his son Michael played by Jason Bateman, and says, you
48:13
can't convict a husband and wife of the same crime. And he goes,
48:15
that's I don't think that's true, and it's the worst lawyers. And these
48:21
lawyers played by Henry Winkler defauns a so, yes, that is, you
48:27
can, in fact convict two coaches of the same crime. You may have
48:30
bad lawyers if you think that. So tremendous, tremendous, tremendous reference there
48:37
I am going to do. I am going to have to jump off in
48:38
just a few minutes. But just you know, just sort of recap things
48:42
a little bit. Is this does not mean anything in terms of the NCAA
48:50
investigation. This is not the end of the road. This is a this
48:54
is a temporary you know, armistice are to use a word that has been
49:00
in the news quite a bit this week. This is a ceasefire between the
49:04
Big Ten and the and the Michigan University of Michigan for them to just wait,
49:12
Okay, we will, we will laid on our arms. We will
49:15
not fight you on the three game suspension if you apparently based on the Michigan
49:19
statement, if you stop investigating right now and you know, let the season
49:23
play out. And that's you know, a lot of what has been done
49:28
here and a lot of the way that Michigan has handled this all along has
49:30
sort of felt like they're trying to kick the can through the end of this
49:35
season. Get to the end of this season with you know, try and
49:37
get a Big Ten championship, try to get a national championship, and then
49:42
you'll deal with the you know, you'll deal with the fallout later. And
49:44
it does the more of this, you know, the more this plays out
49:47
like this, the more it feels like everyone sort of knows there's going to
49:51
be some pretty consequential fallout. Like the people who are just telling you,
49:53
no, this is nothing. No, this is nothing. No, this
49:55
is nothing. You do not voluntarily accept a three game suspension orlier head coach,
50:01
including the game, the biggest game in your season, one of the
50:07
biggest games in the history of the greatest rivalry in all sports. You do
50:12
not accept that if you think there's nothing, this is not a nothing burger.
50:15
People who are trying to float this as anything, they are lying to
50:20
me. Recognize that you are not getting the truth from people who are trying
50:23
to spend this as a nothing. You need to recognize this now, like
50:30
we have been trying to tell you, like, hey, we're not We're
50:32
not getting this way out into the fantasy land. But you have to recognize,
50:37
like read the room, my dudes, like there is some stuff out
50:43
there right now. We don't know exactly what it is. It is not
50:46
nothing. There is you know, the train is coming down the track right
50:50
now. Recognizing that, I think would probably be good because you know,
50:55
the longer you're in denial on this, the worse it's going to be when
51:00
reality hits exactly and you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna thank Tom for being
51:06
part of this. He's got to go run Tom's Taxi service between ice drinks
51:09
ice drinks, So Tom, thank you for joining us.