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Steph and Laura's 'Shameless' Rebrand · Outspoken the Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Outspoken. It's your dose of the
0:06
Speaker 1: hottest influencer and pop culture news twice a week.
0:10
Speaker 2: I'm Kate Torber.
0:12
Speaker 1: And I'm Sophie Torber and coming up on today's show,
0:16
Speaker 1: Hilary Duff teases a Lizzie McGuire reboot. The explosive claims
0:20
Speaker 1: by Princess Diana's brother and could Chloe.
0:23
Speaker 2: Zett be bringing back her activewear brand?
0:26
Speaker 1: The first, Steph Clare Smith and Laura Henshaw have announced
0:29
Speaker 1: a new era of their podcast empire. On Wednesday, the
0:32
Speaker 1: fitness founders revealed their new podcast artwork with a surprising twist. Now, Kate,
0:37
Speaker 1: before we get into it, can you bring listeners up
0:39
Speaker 1: to speed with what's prompted the change? Yeah, so back
0:43
Speaker 1: in June, the Kick Pod and Kick Bump podcast signed
0:46
Speaker 1: a multi-year partnership deal with Shameless Media. Now, prior to
0:50
Speaker 1: that deal, the podcasts were being represented by Australia's largest.
0:54
Speaker 2: Podcast network, Listener.
0:56
Speaker 1: Now, it created quite a buzz at the time because
0:59
Speaker 1: this was Shameless Media's first ever acquisition.
1:02
Speaker 2: While they have.
1:03
Speaker 1: Expanded their podcast offering from their flagship show over the
1:06
Speaker 1: last couple of years, all of their shows up until
1:09
Speaker 1: this point have been created in-house.
1:12
Speaker 2: There was a little bit.
1:12
Speaker 1: Of confusion at the time about what the acquisition actually meant.
1:16
Speaker 1: Shameless Media ended up having to release a statement saying
1:20
Speaker 1: that Steph and Laura still own their shows, but Shameless
1:23
Speaker 1: will officially license both of the podcasts.
1:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, and as part of.
1:27
Speaker 1: This licensing deal, Shameless Media said it will supply a
1:30
Speaker 1: production team to curate each episode of both podcasts, as
1:34
Speaker 1: well as represent the show to advertisers. The statement went
1:37
Speaker 1: on to say, Steph and Laura will bring their hosting
1:39
Speaker 1: flair and incredible audience to us, and we will work
1:42
Speaker 1: with them on this next era of content. They finished
1:46
Speaker 1: up by writing, brimming with ideas of what this next
1:48
Speaker 1: chapter of content might look like. I religiously tune into
1:51
Speaker 1: the kickpot and the kickbump, and I am so curious
1:54
Speaker 1: to see the changes that the shameless media are going
1:57
Speaker 1: to make. As someone who obviously produces a podcast, when
2:01
Speaker 1: I listen to it, there are obvious areas.
2:04
Speaker 2: That I think could be improved.
2:05
Speaker 1: Even though I enjoy the show, I just have some
2:08
Speaker 1: frustrations as a listener, and I think it has a
2:11
Speaker 1: lot to do with caveats that constantly get mentioned. I
2:14
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of worry about how opinions are
2:17
Speaker 1: going to be interpreted when I just rather them say
2:19
Speaker 1: what their opinion is. I mean, since they've been with Listener,
2:22
Speaker 1: they've definitely moved into producing more controversial content. I mean,
2:27
Speaker 1: their podcast was really put on the map and got
2:29
Speaker 1: a lot of attention when Steph opened up about the
2:31
Speaker 1: 30-day sex challenge she was doing with her husband. As
2:34
Speaker 1: you say, then there are a lot of caveats and
2:37
Speaker 1: disclaimers and it seems like They're holding themselves back from,
2:41
Speaker 1: particularly Laura, is holding herself back from saying what she
2:44
Speaker 1: thinks because I think she's so concerned about getting cancelled.
2:47
Speaker 1: I can sense a little bit of tension in recordings
2:50
Speaker 1: because I think Steph's getting really frustrated by Laura having
2:54
Speaker 1: to add in all of these disclaimers. For instance, when
2:57
Speaker 1: Laura was recently starting an episode and saying good morning
3:00
Speaker 1: and everything, she literally burped and she had to go
3:04
Speaker 1: on about this burp for so long and go off
3:07
Speaker 1: on this tangent.
3:08
Speaker 2: And I could just tell that Steph was like, can
3:10
Speaker 2: we just fucking get into the topic?
3:12
Speaker 1: And as a listener, there have been so many times
3:15
Speaker 1: when I have screamed in my car just being like, fucking.
3:19
Speaker 2: Get on with it. I've also done the same, to
3:22
Speaker 2: be completely honest.
3:23
Speaker 1: But I still keep tuning back in because what I'm
3:25
Speaker 1: so interested in is hearing about their lives, which is
3:28
Speaker 1: why this recent move is so interesting. So as we
3:32
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, on Wednesday, Steph and Laura dropped a sneak
3:35
Speaker 1: peek of what to expect next. from this new era
3:38
Speaker 1: of podcasting and unveiled their podcast artwork in a reel
3:41
Speaker 1: that's gone viral at the time of recording. It's got
3:44
Speaker 1: around 600,000 views. We need to first talk about the
3:47
Speaker 1: photos because they are absolutely stunning. It made me want
3:51
Speaker 1: to reshoot our cover artwork. And then I remembered, well,
3:53
Speaker 1: we're not actually models. We're not that good at posing
3:56
Speaker 1: in front of the camera. These photos could literally belong
3:58
Speaker 1: in a magazine.
3:59
Speaker 2: The artwork is very different to their original format.
4:02
Speaker 1: In the original format, they were sort of staring directly
4:04
Speaker 1: at the camera and they had very bright backgrounds, which
4:07
Speaker 1: is what you generally do see for podcast artwork. Whereas
4:10
Speaker 1: their new artwork, as you said, Kate, is very editorial.
4:13
Speaker 1: It's very, it looks like they've shot the front cover
4:16
Speaker 1: of a magazine. It's an interesting move by Shameless Media
4:19
Speaker 1: because if you look at some of their other podcasts,
4:21
Speaker 1: I mean, Shameless being a main example, they use graphics
4:24
Speaker 1: as their cover photo rather than an image of Michelle
4:27
Speaker 1: and Zara. Well, that moves us into the most intriguing
4:30
Speaker 1: part of this announcement, which is the fact that they
4:32
Speaker 1: have dropped Kick from the names of both of their podcasts.
4:35
Speaker 1: So KickPod is now called Steph and Laura, while KickBump
4:39
Speaker 1: is just Bump. So this is a massive move. This
4:42
Speaker 1: isn't just a case of dropping a word from the title.
4:44
Speaker 1: They're separating the podcast from the Kik brand and focusing
4:48
Speaker 1: purely on Steph and Laura's personal brand, which, as I said,
4:52
Speaker 1: is huge when you consider that the Kik pod actually
4:55
Speaker 1: started as an extension of their wellness brand kick. It
4:58
Speaker 1: was a way to deepen the relationships with their existing community,
5:02
Speaker 1: which signals to me that this podcast must be a
5:05
Speaker 1: big moneymaker for them. The fact that they are willing
5:07
Speaker 1: to separate it from their fitness empire or that Shameless
5:12
Speaker 1: see it as a huge potential moneymaker. Well, I also
5:15
Speaker 1: think from Shameless's perspective, if they have acquired the podcast
5:21
Speaker 1: and they're not making any money from Kick, the wellness
5:24
Speaker 1: app themselves, they do want to differentiate them. And as
5:27
Speaker 1: a listener, the name is quite confusing because you would
5:30
Speaker 1: assume that it's a fitness-based podcast, not a lifestyle-based podcast,
5:35
Speaker 1: which it clearly has become. So I think that the
5:37
Speaker 1: change of name had to happen.
5:40
Speaker 2: I agree, Sophie. It makes a lot of sense to me.
5:42
Speaker 1: And I think this is quite a strategic move from
5:44
Speaker 1: Shameless because they have a whole portfolio of podcasts that.
5:47
Speaker 2: They now represent.
5:49
Speaker 1: And by removing Kik from the podcast names, it sits
5:53
Speaker 1: much more naturally within that portfolio. And when you think
5:56
Speaker 1: about it, if you're trying to sell advertising, the name
5:58
Speaker 1: Steph and Laura has a much more broader potential appeal
6:03
Speaker 1: than the Kik pod because when you've got Kik in
6:06
Speaker 1: the name, it's really pigeonholing themselves into products related to
6:10
Speaker 1: health and fitness. I actually wonder if it comes down
6:13
Speaker 1: to more of a business decision by Kik because I've
6:16
Speaker 1: heard Laura and Steph talk a lot about in different
6:19
Speaker 1: podcast interviews when they've been asked to talk about their
6:22
Speaker 1: business and how potentially they may be interested in selling kick,
6:27
Speaker 1: you know, how Kayla Astinas sold sweat back in the day.
6:30
Speaker 1: And if they do sell kick, then their podcast would
6:33
Speaker 1: form part of that business acquisition. So it's quite clever
6:37
Speaker 1: because Steph and Laura have obviously seen how well shameless
6:41
Speaker 1: media are doing and have gone, My goodness, we need
6:44
Speaker 1: to separate these two business entities. Well, we have discussed
6:48
Speaker 1: in the past how we wonder if the move to
6:51
Speaker 1: sharing really like personal and controversial stories actually has a
6:56
Speaker 1: negative impact on Kik's brand. So maybe that is a
7:00
Speaker 1: part of the strategy. What I find particularly interesting about
7:03
Speaker 1: this move is it's almost as if Steph and Laura
7:05
Speaker 1: are returning to their original personal brands. Steph actually hinted
7:09
Speaker 1: this was the case earlier this year. when she revealed
7:12
Speaker 1: she was getting back into bikini modeling. Now that was
7:14
Speaker 1: quite controversial at the time because it was really in
7:17
Speaker 1: stark contrast to Kik's core messaging. And what is particularly
7:22
Speaker 1: fascinating about this move is it's not like Kik made
7:25
Speaker 1: Steph and Laura famous. It was their existing personal brands
7:28
Speaker 1: that actually initially gave Kik its audience. So it's interesting
7:32
Speaker 1: that they're now making the decision to put that focus
7:35
Speaker 1: back on building their personal brands. I mean, potentially that's
7:38
Speaker 1: because Kik is now a substantial business that they're trying
7:41
Speaker 1: to separate themselves from. And now the focus is turning
7:45
Speaker 1: themselves into media personalities. I think that this is a
7:49
Speaker 1: really clever move to separate their own personal brands from
7:52
Speaker 1: Kik because as you touched on, Kate, Steph in particular
7:55
Speaker 1: has been receiving a lot of pushback whenever she speaks
7:57
Speaker 1: about her modelling career because it does seem to be
8:00
Speaker 1: in contrast to the messaging that she and Laura push
8:04
Speaker 1: at Keep It Cleaner. It also makes me more convinced
8:06
Speaker 1: that the end game is to eventually sell Kick to
8:09
Speaker 1: a large investor. What I also find really intriguing is
8:12
Speaker 1: the choice of the name, Steph and Laura, as a
8:14
Speaker 1: new podcast, because they're effectively turning their friendship itself into
8:19
Speaker 1: a brand. They're positioning themselves as a duo. And this
8:22
Speaker 1: is a really powerful move we've seen from a lot
8:25
Speaker 1: of radio stars and podcasters. You've got Hamish and Andy.
8:28
Speaker 1: You've also got the Carl and Jackie O show. You've
8:31
Speaker 1: also got Tony and Ryan, which is an incredibly popular show.
8:34
Speaker 2: The name is very radio. I saw a few people saying.
8:37
Speaker 1: Gee, how did they come up with that name?
8:38
Speaker 2: But I actually think it's clever.
8:41
Speaker 1: Well, it's very generic and I suppose that's where one
8:43
Speaker 1: of the risks lie because they're removing the name of
8:46
Speaker 1: an established brand that they've spent years and years building
8:49
Speaker 1: audience recognition around. So from a discoverability perspective, there is
8:53
Speaker 1: a little bit of risk involved there. It would kind
8:56
Speaker 1: of be like us renaming Outspoken to Kate, Amy and Sophie.
8:59
Speaker 1: I mean, you'd lose a lot of meaning and recognition
9:02
Speaker 1: and equity that you've built over the last seven years.
9:04
Speaker 1: In saying that though, the difference is that Steph and
9:07
Speaker 1: Laura are already have very strong personal brands online. But again,
9:12
Speaker 1: is their brand strong enough as a duo? Because you're
9:15
Speaker 1: dropping their last names from it. I don't think three
9:18
Speaker 1: names works as well, just putting it out there. I
9:21
Speaker 1: always thought the kick pod and kick bump sounded a
9:23
Speaker 1: bit naff. And even when you really think about the
9:26
Speaker 1: name Kick Bump, it sounds like someone kicking a pregnant belly.
9:29
Speaker 1: Like I think Shameless would have instantly been like.
9:31
Speaker 2: We got to get rid of that. That has some
9:33
Speaker 2: bad sort of undertones, that name.
9:35
Speaker 1: Well, Steph and Laura aren't strangers to a name change.
9:37
Speaker 1: Like Kick actually used to be called Keep It Cleaner.
9:40
Speaker 1: And they obviously had to pivot because there are negative
9:43
Speaker 1: connotations associated with clean eating in the diet industry. Now
9:47
Speaker 1: that we've got the new artwork and the new name,
9:50
Speaker 1: I am just fascinated to see how Shameless Media are
9:53
Speaker 1: going to reformat this show. I think that it's going
9:55
Speaker 1: to be a lot pacier. There's going to be less
9:57
Speaker 1: caveats and we're going to to hear more about Steph
10:01
Speaker 1: and Laura's personal lives. I mean, I know they've already
10:04
Speaker 1: told us a lot, but I think that they're going
10:05
Speaker 1: to dive into topics that we haven't yet heard yet,
10:08
Speaker 1: which I can't wait for. Chloe Zepp has teased a
10:12
Speaker 1: potential comeback for her beloved activewear brand Zepp. The OG
10:17
Speaker 1: influencer who shut down the brand in April last year
10:20
Speaker 1: has finally opened up about the reality of the business closure.
10:24
Speaker 1: I just loved how vulnerable she was in this post.
10:28
Speaker 1: She shared a carousel of lessons that she learnt as
10:31
Speaker 1: a founder that cost her more than money. She captioned
10:34
Speaker 1: the post, I founded my first two, what I would
10:37
Speaker 1: call successful companies at 19. Then I had two children
10:41
Speaker 1: back to back. My frontal lobe has since developed and
10:44
Speaker 1: Here's the mistakes and sometimes they are rough, but it's
10:47
Speaker 1: about learning from them, building your confidence back, letting them
10:50
Speaker 1: build wisdom and strength in you, then eventually coming back stronger.
10:55
Speaker 2: Now, even before reading.
10:56
Speaker 1: This carousel, I was like, wow, this is the most
10:59
Speaker 1: real I have seen her be for a very long time.
11:02
Speaker 1: I think it was really clever of Chloe to preface
11:04
Speaker 1: just how young she was when she started her businesses
11:07
Speaker 1: because I had completely forgotten that. And I think a
11:10
Speaker 1: lot of people don't realise that Chloe is now 27
11:14
Speaker 1: because she seems so much older because she has shared
11:18
Speaker 1: her life online from such a young age. Yeah, I mean,
11:21
Speaker 1: she and Mitch were only teenagers when they first started
11:24
Speaker 1: dating and she had her first child at 21. So
11:27
Speaker 1: I think that people often assume, as you said, that
11:29
Speaker 1: she's a lot older than she is. It's wild to
11:32
Speaker 1: think that she only started these businesses when she was
11:34
Speaker 1: 19 and she did have a.
11:36
Speaker 2: Lot of early success with them.
11:38
Speaker 1: I also thought the last line was very telling where
11:41
Speaker 1: she spoke about building confidence and strength to eventually come
11:45
Speaker 1: back stronger and To me, I feel like this post
11:48
Speaker 1: is testing the water to.
11:49
Speaker 2: See if there's interest in Zep making a return.
11:52
Speaker 1: This post was absolutely fascinating because as you touched on,
11:55
Speaker 1: it was so honest. So in the first slide, Chloe
11:58
Speaker 1: spoke about how the Zep rebrand costs the company dearly.
12:01
Speaker 1: So she admitted that the company made a massive mistake
12:05
Speaker 1: removing its logo off everything. And she said they did
12:08
Speaker 1: that because minimalism was the trend. So they were essentially
12:11
Speaker 1: following the crowd. She also revealed that they backed themselves
12:14
Speaker 1: a little bit too much as a business without having
12:17
Speaker 1: proven success in which led them to over-order by thousands
12:21
Speaker 1: and thousands. I would actually love to know how much
12:24
Speaker 1: stock they ordered because we've spoken in the past about
12:27
Speaker 1: how often you see these influencer brands say that they've
12:30
Speaker 1: sold out the first drop and you're like.
12:31
Speaker 2: Well, did you release a hundred products or did you
12:33
Speaker 2: release 10,000 products? You never actually are sure.
12:36
Speaker 1: Another admission I found particularly fascinating from Chloe is how
12:40
Speaker 1: she said it was a massive mistake moving everything in-house
12:44
Speaker 1: and building this big internal team. So she actually made
12:47
Speaker 1: that move in the middle of 2022. So she set
12:51
Speaker 1: up this dedicated ZEP headquarters and it looked absolutely incredible.
12:55
Speaker 2: She revealed that the.
12:56
Speaker 1: Fit out cost $ 250, 000. And she said, while that looked
13:00
Speaker 1: absolutely amazing, The reality was they didn't actually own the offices.
13:05
Speaker 1: And she warned people, make sure you don't get carried
13:07
Speaker 1: away with making sure the aesthetic is beautiful when you
13:10
Speaker 1: actually don't own the building because it's a massive financial
13:13
Speaker 1: loss to you. It's interesting because she prefaced that for
13:16
Speaker 1: most people, moving everything internally isn't a bad business move.
13:20
Speaker 1: But for her, it was just the wrong model for
13:22
Speaker 1: her lifestyle and the way that she worked at the time.
13:25
Speaker 1: She had two really young kids who she most likely
13:28
Speaker 1: wanted to be at home with. And for her, a
13:31
Speaker 1: working from home situation would have cost her a lot
13:34
Speaker 1: less money and given her a lot more flexibility. What
13:38
Speaker 1: I really liked is she took personal responsibility for most
13:41
Speaker 1: of these mistakes. One of them being that she found
13:43
Speaker 1: herself always wanting to create something new that really excited her. However,
13:48
Speaker 1: she said it would have been better if she focused
13:50
Speaker 1: on what the customers already loved. I feel like that
13:53
Speaker 1: was in reference to the Zep bike shorts that everyone
13:55
Speaker 1: was obsessed with. Yeah, because even now people rave about
13:58
Speaker 1: those bike shorts and really it would have been easy
14:01
Speaker 1: to concentrate on maybe making more colorways of them or
14:04
Speaker 1: thinking of ways to make them slightly better. She also
14:08
Speaker 1: reflected on what she could have done better as the
14:11
Speaker 1: business owner. She said that she was always people pleasing
14:14
Speaker 1: instead of actually leading the team. She also said she
14:17
Speaker 1: didn't speak up when she knew she wanted something done
14:20
Speaker 1: differently and let a lot of things slide because she
14:23
Speaker 1: didn't want to upset anyone. And I think that that
14:25
Speaker 1: is very normal for a lot of young people when
14:28
Speaker 1: they do find themselves in a leadership position like that? Well,
14:31
Speaker 1: not even specifically just young people. If you're in your
14:33
Speaker 1: career and you have always been managed by someone else
14:37
Speaker 1: and you haven't had the opportunity to manage others, it
14:39
Speaker 1: can be really difficult. I found that in my old jobs,
14:42
Speaker 1: I always thought that I wanted to be in charge
14:44
Speaker 1: of people. But whenever I was put in charge of anyone,
14:47
Speaker 1: I found it really awkward to tell them what to do.
14:50
Speaker 1: And I actually much prefer working as a part of
14:53
Speaker 1: a team rather than leading one. I think it would
14:55
Speaker 1: also be really intimidating if you didn't have a formal
14:58
Speaker 1: education in business and you've hired a lot of great
15:01
Speaker 1: people around you, you probably feel like it's not your
15:03
Speaker 1: place to tell them what to do, even though you
15:06
Speaker 1: are essentially the boss. She said that she always wanted
15:09
Speaker 1: everyone to be happy with her. And sometimes that came
15:12
Speaker 1: at the expense of what was actually best for the business.
15:15
Speaker 1: What stood out to me the most is this is
15:16
Speaker 1: the first time that Chloe has actually publicly addressed the
15:20
Speaker 1: liquidation of her business. She said in the slide that
15:23
Speaker 1: over the years, the company was structured by whoever she
15:26
Speaker 1: hired at the time. And she admitted that she had
15:29
Speaker 1: very little understanding of the operational side of the business.
15:33
Speaker 1: So when the business started to struggle and it came
15:36
Speaker 1: time for her to work out what could be saved
15:38
Speaker 1: from rebuilt or changed. She said she didn't actually have
15:41
Speaker 1: enough knowledge of her own business operations to confidently navigate it.
15:46
Speaker 1: She wrote, I was advised the cleanest path forward was
15:49
Speaker 1: to voluntarily liquidate the structures completely. There were multiple trusts
15:53
Speaker 1: and companies, which I've learned a lot more about now.
15:57
Speaker 1: One of my biggest lessons is that a founder needs
15:59
Speaker 1: to understand the foundations of their business. Tax systems, financials
16:03
Speaker 1: is super important, even if they hire other people to
16:06
Speaker 1: manage them. It ultimately falls back onto you. So you
16:09
Speaker 1: want to ensure you're covered. I think there would be
16:12
Speaker 1: a lot of other creators and even just regular people
16:15
Speaker 1: that would be in a similar position to Chloe who
16:17
Speaker 1: have had a business idea. Maybe they're more creatives and
16:21
Speaker 1: they just follow what their accountants or business mentors tell them.
16:25
Speaker 1: And then they get to a position where they're having
16:27
Speaker 1: to make this big decision. And they actually don't know
16:30
Speaker 1: what to do because it sounds like Chloe's got quite
16:32
Speaker 1: a lot of regret about closing Zep down.
16:34
Speaker 2: I mean, again, it seems like she's hinting it could
16:37
Speaker 2: be returning.
16:38
Speaker 1: I also think this was a way of her trying
16:40
Speaker 1: to distance herself from the failure of this business because
16:43
Speaker 1: when the liquidation was reported at the start of the
16:46
Speaker 1: year by the Gold Coast Bulletin, the report showed that
16:49
Speaker 1: the company wasn't able to pay its outstanding tax debt
16:53
Speaker 1: in full. So at the time this article was published,
16:55
Speaker 1: it said that Zep owed $ 113 thousand three hundred and fifty.
16:59
Speaker 2: One dollars to the ATO.
17:01
Speaker 1: The report also identified potential offences of insolvent trading. I
17:05
Speaker 1: want to add that no findings have yet been made
17:08
Speaker 1: by ASIC and no criminal charges have been laid yet.
17:11
Speaker 1: But I really think that this was Chloe's way of
17:14
Speaker 1: distancing herself from the operational side of the business and
17:17
Speaker 1: suddenly trying to clear her name, particularly if she does
17:20
Speaker 1: want to make a comeback with this brand. It was
17:23
Speaker 1: quite interesting because there was an overwhelming amount of support
17:26
Speaker 1: in the comment section after Chloe's post. Steph Gless-Smith wrote,
17:30
Speaker 1: I still love wearing my OG ZEPP, Chloe. What you
17:33
Speaker 1: built was incredible and you should be very proud of
17:35
Speaker 1: all of these lessons. Lino Holler, who's a transformation coach, wrote,
17:40
Speaker 1: I still see so many women wearing these ZEPP shorts.
17:43
Speaker 1: When I see that, one, I'm proud of you. Two,
17:45
Speaker 1: I figured these things must really last. There are also
17:49
Speaker 1: a couple of followers who begged Chloe to bring Zep back,
17:52
Speaker 1: saying that Zep was their favorite activewear brand. Chloe responded
17:56
Speaker 1: to those fans saying, these comments with crying and heart.
17:59
Speaker 1: And that was my why. So grateful for the support.
18:02
Speaker 1: Do you think that all of this hints to a
18:04
Speaker 1: return of Zep activewear? Oh, she is definitely paving the
18:07
Speaker 1: way for a return. Also, when you consider Chloe's personal situation,
18:11
Speaker 1: it makes me think even more that this brand is
18:13
Speaker 1: coming back because recently her and her fiance, Mitch Orville,
18:16
Speaker 1: have broken up. And when Chloe first announced that Zep
18:19
Speaker 1: was closing down, she had this whole spiel about how
18:22
Speaker 1: it was because she wanted to be at home with
18:24
Speaker 1: her family and that's where she felt she was needed
18:27
Speaker 1: the most. But let's be real, she now needs to
18:30
Speaker 1: pay her bills. She doesn't have the support of Mitchell Orville.
18:33
Speaker 1: So she will need to do something that brings in money.
18:37
Speaker 1: And I think potentially in the right hands, Zep could
18:40
Speaker 1: do that for her. Now let's get into what's been
18:44
Speaker 1: blowing up our group chat. And I forwarded this one
18:46
Speaker 1: to you guys so quickly. Hilary Duff has teased that
18:50
Speaker 1: a Lizzie McGuire reboot may be on the horizon. Now
18:53
Speaker 1: the singer shared a video of her throwing a coin
18:56
Speaker 1: into the Trevi Fountain as she made a wish. And
18:59
Speaker 1: OGs will know, that this is her recreating a scene
19:02
Speaker 1: from the iconic movie. She was also rocking her signature
19:05
Speaker 1: blonde fringe, which I was wondering if it was a
19:08
Speaker 1: wig or one of like a clip-on fringe extension. It
19:11
Speaker 1: was a wig and it was clearly done to differentiate
19:14
Speaker 1: herself and Lizzie McGuire. I mean, even her outfit was
19:17
Speaker 1: giving Lizzie vibes. She had this pink handkerchief top on
19:21
Speaker 1: and these sort of 90s jeans. I don't even think
19:24
Speaker 1: she needed to differentiate herself. Her just in front of
19:26
Speaker 1: the Trevi Fountain, that is complete Lizzie McGuire vibes. Like
19:29
Speaker 1: I remember when I went to Rome, I was playing
19:31
Speaker 1: Hey Now to my husband and he's like, what the
19:34
Speaker 1: hell is this? I'm like, this is the song of Rome, okay? Look,
19:38
Speaker 1: the fans were picking up what she was putting down.
19:41
Speaker 1: So many people were saying, oh, it's a Lizzie McGuire reboot.
19:44
Speaker 1: Even Disney Studios got in on the action. They wrote
19:47
Speaker 1: Hey Now while Disney Plus wrote We're Expecting deja vu.
19:52
Speaker 1: And this isn't the first time we've had a reboot teased.
19:54
Speaker 1: It was back in 2019 when we thought one was coming,
19:57
Speaker 1: but the following year, Hillary confirmed it had been cancelled.
20:00
Speaker 1: Now it was Disney Plus who scrapped this idea. Apparently
20:04
Speaker 1: there was some contention around the fact that Hilary Duff.
20:07
Speaker 2: Wanted to explore more mature themes.
20:10
Speaker 1: Now that, you know, the character was in her late
20:13
Speaker 1: 30s and Disney was like wanting very much to still
20:16
Speaker 1: make it PG. The thing that's interesting is that they
20:20
Speaker 1: actually filmed two episodes of Lizzie McGuire in 2019. But
20:23
Speaker 1: when the cast returned for filming in 2020, that's when
20:26
Speaker 1: Disney pulled the pin on it. presumably because of the
20:29
Speaker 1: different direction that Hilary Duff wanted to go in. Look,
20:32
Speaker 1: I really hope she is teasing a Lizzie McGuire reboot,
20:35
Speaker 1: but I think this actually could be promotion for her
20:38
Speaker 1: new docu-series, which she announced was coming late last year.
20:41
Speaker 2: Don't put that out there, Amy. We want both.
20:44
Speaker 1: Like, I'm sorry, as OG Hilary Duff fans, we have
20:47
Speaker 1: been waiting a long time for this return. I am
20:51
Speaker 1: hoping that there is the Lizzie McGuire reboot. I'm hoping
20:54
Speaker 1: there's the docu-series and... I am desperate for her to
20:57
Speaker 1: bring back her with love perfume. Oh yeah. Ever since
21:00
Speaker 1: that went out of stock, I have not found, like
21:02
Speaker 1: that was my signature perfume.
21:03
Speaker 2: I used to get so many compliments about it. Now,
21:05
Speaker 2: I don't even know what to wear. It's so confusing.
21:09
Speaker 2: I can't find anything that matches it.
21:11
Speaker 1: Now, something else that's been blowing up our group chat
21:14
Speaker 1: is the explosive claims that have been made by Princess
21:17
Speaker 1: Diana's brother, Charles Spencer. And this is in his new
21:21
Speaker 1: memoir entitled Swan Song, Diana, My Sister. I have never
21:25
Speaker 1: been so quick to download a book on Audible. Oh
21:28
Speaker 1: my God, this is like my bread and butter. I
21:30
Speaker 1: am obsessed with Princess Diana. Can I say before we
21:33
Speaker 1: dive too deep into this, can we refer to him
21:35
Speaker 1: as Earl Spencer? Because it's just so confusing to That
21:38
Speaker 1: she married, obviously, then Prince Charles and her brother's called.
21:41
Speaker 2: Charles as well.
21:42
Speaker 1: Like, obviously, this is a very upper class name and
21:45
Speaker 1: one that's moving in those sorts of circles, but it's confusing.
21:48
Speaker 1: And also, a lot of what we're going to talk
21:50
Speaker 1: about is claims that Elle Spencer has made about King Charles,
21:54
Speaker 1: because that's all everyone can talk about. So the first
21:57
Speaker 1: big story to come out of this book. was Earl
22:00
Speaker 1: Spencer's claim that King Charles told him during an argument
22:04
Speaker 1: over Diana's funeral, we'll forget her soon enough. I had
22:10
Speaker 1: shivers down my spine when I read this.
22:12
Speaker 2: If this is true, this is absolutely fucked.
22:14
Speaker 1: According to Earl Spencer, this conversation took place just days
22:18
Speaker 1: after Diana's death. And they clashed over whether William and
22:21
Speaker 1: Harry should walk behind Diana's coffin. Yeah, and in the book,
22:24
Speaker 1: Earl Spencer said he knew that Diana would be really
22:27
Speaker 1: against this because she wouldn't want to have her sons
22:30
Speaker 1: having to grieve so publicly. Now, this is when Earl
22:33
Speaker 1: Spencer claimed Charles said, rest assured, we'll forget her soon enough.
22:37
Speaker 1: If he did say this, I don't understand the response
22:39
Speaker 1: that he was expecting to get from said woman's brother. Yeah,
22:43
Speaker 1: but have you seen how Prince Charles lost it when
22:46
Speaker 1: he couldn't get that ink pen to work?
22:48
Speaker 2: Remember that? During and when it was the Queen's, he
22:50
Speaker 2: was trying to sign.
22:51
Speaker 1: Some book around the time the Queen died and he
22:53
Speaker 1: went absolutely nuts and they captured it on camera.
22:56
Speaker 2: So you're saying he has a pretty bad temper?
22:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm saying he clearly has a temper and he
22:59
Speaker 1: would have said it in the heat of the moment.
23:02
Speaker 1: Earl Spencer also claims that Charles sounded giddily elated when
23:06
Speaker 1: he spoke to him shortly after Diana's death. He even
23:10
Speaker 1: compared his mood to someone who would won the lottery.
23:13
Speaker 1: This comes in stark contrast to how other historians have
23:16
Speaker 1: reported that Charles responded following Princess Diana's death because we
23:20
Speaker 1: know that he flew to Paris to identify her and
23:22
Speaker 1: also brought her body back home.
23:24
Speaker 2: A lot of people said he was quite emotional about it.
23:28
Speaker 1: I know anger is a normal emotion in grief, but
23:31
Speaker 1: generally you're not saying, oh, let's just forget about this
23:33
Speaker 1: person and move on. Yeah, and there's debate raging online
23:35
Speaker 1: whether people actually believe Earl Spencer's account of events. I've
23:40
Speaker 1: got to put it out there. I 100% believe him.
23:43
Speaker 1: I buy into everything he has been saying. I mean,
23:46
Speaker 1: what's added more fuel to the fire is the fact
23:49
Speaker 1: that the palace hasn't actually denied the allegation. So in
23:52
Speaker 1: an unprecedented move, they actually put out a statement addressing it.
23:56
Speaker 1: So they've said grief can affect memory and judgment. So
24:00
Speaker 1: they're obviously implying that he has misheard or he's got
24:03
Speaker 1: the wrong interpretation. But they haven't flat out said this
24:06
Speaker 1: did not occur, which I think speaks volume. Yeah, well,
24:10
Speaker 1: I mean, the palace didn't even put out a statement
24:12
Speaker 1: when Harry released his book that this is very.
24:15
Speaker 2: Unprecedented, as you said.
24:17
Speaker 1: I mean, this is essentially Charles saying in, you know,
24:20
Speaker 1: I suppose nice terms, you're lying.
24:23
Speaker 2: I didn't fucking say this. Or you've twisted what I've said.
24:25
Speaker 1: I mean, the whole irony is, though, that nearly 30
24:28
Speaker 1: years on from Princess Diana's death, there is no way
24:31
Speaker 1: she has been forgotten. She is still one of the
24:33
Speaker 1: most recognizable women.
24:35
Speaker 2: In modern history.
24:36
Speaker 1: Somebody who was, how old were we? Like seven when
24:39
Speaker 1: she passed away. Listening to Earl Spencer's book, I have
24:43
Speaker 1: felt like breaking down into tears so many times. She
24:47
Speaker 1: has affected so many people in the most amazing and
24:50
Speaker 1: special ways. So to think that Prince Charles actually thought
24:53
Speaker 1: potentially that she might be forgotten, it just shows how
24:57
Speaker 1: ridiculous he is. I mean, it shows the bubble that
25:00
Speaker 1: he was in. And I mean, he would have so
25:01
Speaker 1: many yes people around him. In terms of why people
25:05
Speaker 1: were skeptical about Earl Spencer's claims, he has recently just
25:09
Speaker 1: gone through his fourth divorce. And obviously divorces, they're not cheap,
25:14
Speaker 1: are they? You end up dividing most of the time
25:16
Speaker 1: your assets. So people are saying, oh, is he just
25:18
Speaker 1: making this book to make money? Because he's spoken before
25:21
Speaker 1: about never wanting to denigrate Princess Diana's memory. And it's
25:26
Speaker 1: only now that he's finally doing a book about her.
25:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I just think, I mean, who's pushing this narrative?
25:33
Speaker 2: The palace, perhaps?
25:34
Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of interviews with Earl Spencer and
25:37
Speaker 1: journalists have put this question to him and he has
25:40
Speaker 1: eloquently answered saying, look.
25:42
Speaker 2: He's in his 60s now.
25:44
Speaker 1: His parents didn't make it to their 70s. And as
25:47
Speaker 1: a historian, he wants to put the accurate facts out there.
25:51
Speaker 1: He said a lot of people have been approaching him
25:53
Speaker 1: to be involved in different documentary series leading into the
25:57
Speaker 1: 30-year anniversary of Diana's death. And he said he doesn't
26:00
Speaker 1: want to be a part of those because he doesn't
26:02
Speaker 1: have control over the outcome. He said there's a lot
26:04
Speaker 1: of producers that are wanting to push one-sided things and
26:07
Speaker 1: he wants to set the record straight. And if you
26:10
Speaker 1: actually listen to the book, it's not this salacious hit
26:12
Speaker 1: piece on King Charles. I mean, Earl Spencer himself has
26:16
Speaker 1: come out and said, look, If he wanted to do that,
26:18
Speaker 1: he's got a lot of stories and that's not a threat,
26:20
Speaker 1: but he could have said way worse. I mean, this
26:22
Speaker 1: story has a lot of historical information about the Spencer
26:25
Speaker 1: family in it. Well, in terms of Elle Spencer essentially saying, hey,
26:28
Speaker 1: I had a lot more dirt that I could have
26:29
Speaker 1: included in this book about King Charles, that came in
26:32
Speaker 1: response to critics saying, well, aren't you upsetting William and
26:36
Speaker 1: Harry by including all of these details about their father
26:39
Speaker 1: and also their mother?
26:40
Speaker 2: Um, Have they read Spare?
26:42
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think Harry gives a fuck. Harry
26:45
Speaker 1: is apparently very close to the Spencers. Obviously, William, not
26:49
Speaker 1: as much. I think that Harry and Meghan would have
26:51
Speaker 1: been absolutely cheering in the corner saying, fuck it.
26:54
Speaker 2: King Charles.
26:55
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Earl Spencer said that Harry reacted positively to
26:58
Speaker 1: the book, whereas he didn't really touch on William's reaction.
27:01
Speaker 2: You know what?
27:02
Speaker 1: Harry's probably happy that someone's taking the heat off him
27:04
Speaker 1: and his book. It's funny because I keep seeing all
27:06
Speaker 1: the comments online saying how much Prince George looks like
27:09
Speaker 1: Earl Spencer.
27:10
Speaker 2: I think it's the hair.
27:11
Speaker 1: I remember when Prince George was little and there was
27:13
Speaker 1: an Instagram account made where they kind of characterized him
27:16
Speaker 1: as being this evil kid.
27:17
Speaker 2: Oh, that's very nice. Do you remember that? I do
27:19
Speaker 2: remember that. This is the disturbing thing.
27:21
Speaker 1: This is why a lot of people don't share their
27:24
Speaker 1: kids online because of these strange narratives that people build. Now,
27:28
Speaker 1: so I think we need to move on to quite
27:29
Speaker 1: possibly the most explosive claim that was made in this book.
27:33
Speaker 1: So Earl Spencer went on to allege that the reason
27:36
Speaker 1: Diana wanted to divorce Charles was because she believed he
27:39
Speaker 1: was in love with his valet. Now, Earl Spencer didn't
27:42
Speaker 1: name the valet, but media publications are now speculating he
27:46
Speaker 1: may have been referring to the King's former principal valet,
27:50
Speaker 1: Michael Fawcett. Now, I want to point out, These are
27:53
Speaker 1: just allegations. But what's really interesting is it's not the
27:57
Speaker 1: first time questions have been raised over Fawcett and Charles'
28:01
Speaker 1: close relationship. Yeah, so in 2004, Diana's biographer, Andrew Morton, wrote,
28:07
Speaker 1: she started to feel that Fawcett had an unnatural hold
28:10
Speaker 1: over her husband, becoming increasingly concerned about the intimacy of
28:15
Speaker 1: their relationships. Now, these rumors reportedly originated from a man
28:19
Speaker 1: called George Smith who worked as an assistant valet to
28:22
Speaker 1: the then Prince Charles. In 1996, he alleged that he
28:25
Speaker 1: was raped by a senior aide to the then Prince
28:29
Speaker 1: and that he had also witnessed a sexual incident involving
28:32
Speaker 1: Charles and a servant. Now, what's really interesting is that
28:36
Speaker 1: according to Diana's former butler, Paul Burrell, Diana got involved
28:40
Speaker 1: in the case by supposedly recording Smith's account of what
28:43
Speaker 1: had occurred and keeping the tape in a locked mahogany
28:47
Speaker 1: box in her apartment. Now, Paul Burrell claims that he
28:50
Speaker 1: saw the box in Diana's apartment, but that the contents
28:53
Speaker 1: vanished after her death.
28:55
Speaker 2: It's a bit fishy, isn't it?
28:56
Speaker 1: Now, Fawcett wasn't explicitly named in this article, but it
29:00
Speaker 1: was revealed that he saw an injunction against the story
29:03
Speaker 1: prior to its publication. He has since denied the allegations
29:07
Speaker 1: and described the former assistant valet as an unreliable alcoholic.
29:13
Speaker 1: In a statement, the palace said the assistant valet had
29:15
Speaker 1: made other unrelated allegations which the police have fully investigated
29:20
Speaker 1: and found to be unsubstantiated.
29:22
Speaker 2: I mean, these are some pretty big claims.
29:24
Speaker 1: I don't know how I feel about someone's sexuality being
29:28
Speaker 1: potentially outed in a book like this. Well, from a
29:31
Speaker 1: legal perspective, Earl Spencer has cleverly weaved this piece of
29:35
Speaker 1: information in. It's obviously damaging to Charles.
29:38
Speaker 2: Well, he said a lot without satisfaction. much, didn't he?
29:40
Speaker 1: Because he can just claim that he's relaying a conversation,
29:44
Speaker 1: but everyone knows what he's insinuating. Yeah, and everyone has
29:46
Speaker 1: been Googling who was Prince Charles's valet at the time.
29:50
Speaker 1: And this is how we have discovered this information. I
29:53
Speaker 1: think Princess Diana would have loved this snippet in the book. Oh.
29:57
Speaker 1: she'd have a big smile on her face. She would
29:59
Speaker 1: be enjoying every second of this. It's interesting because over
30:02
Speaker 1: the years, I've watched a lot of royal documentaries and
30:04
Speaker 1: consumed a lot of biographies. And you do get the
30:07
Speaker 1: vibe that Prince Charles, sorry, King Charles is a bit
30:11
Speaker 1: like a big kid. He sounds like he doesn't really
30:13
Speaker 1: know how to do things for himself because didn't he
30:15
Speaker 1: have someone like dressing him?
30:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, they all do. But how weird is that? I mean-
30:22
Speaker 2: It's weird.
30:23
Speaker 1: It would be weird if you had someone dressing you,
30:25
Speaker 1: but this is what these people have grown up. They've
30:28
Speaker 1: only known having people serve them. I mean, the interesting
30:31
Speaker 1: thing about Charles's valet is there's been a lot of
30:34
Speaker 1: press around just how close they were and some of
30:36
Speaker 1: the things that he would do for Prince Charles. So
30:38
Speaker 1: it's been reported that he would put toothpaste on Prince
30:42
Speaker 1: Charles's toothbrush, that he'd lay out his towel for him
30:44
Speaker 1: after his bath. There was even apparently an incident where
30:47
Speaker 1: he held a little like urine container for Prince Charles
30:51
Speaker 1: to wee in after he was involved in some kind
30:53
Speaker 1: of injury. Wasn't it in The Crown that they showed
30:56
Speaker 1: one of his servants putting his teddies on his bed in.
30:59
Speaker 2: The right order as well? That's Prince Andrew. Oh, sorry. Oh,
31:03
Speaker 2: that says enough, doesn't it, about that family?
31:05
Speaker 1: Now someone else who isn't thrilled about this book is
31:07
Speaker 1: Piers Morgan. I mean, he wasn't painted in the best light.
31:10
Speaker 1: In a chapter discussing Princess Diana's funeral, Earl Spencer spoke
31:14
Speaker 1: about his horror at hearing that the editors of all
31:17
Speaker 1: of the UK tabloids, including Piers Morgan, had been invited
31:20
Speaker 1: to her funeral. Yeah, because Earl Spencer is adamant that
31:23
Speaker 1: the press were responsible for Diana's death. And he said
31:27
Speaker 1: about uninviting them all, which I love, because he said
31:29
Speaker 1: like Princess Diana would not want them in attendance. He
31:32
Speaker 1: told this absolutely horrific story in the book about how
31:35
Speaker 1: one member of the paparazzi had chased Diana and had
31:39
Speaker 1: told her that he would follow her until the day
31:41
Speaker 1: she died and then spit on her grave. Like this
31:43
Speaker 1: is how horrendous some of these people were to her.
31:46
Speaker 1: That makes me feel sick and that almost makes me
31:48
Speaker 1: feel ashamed to be a journalist.
31:49
Speaker 2: Like how low can you go? That is disgusting. I'm
31:52
Speaker 2: so glad to hear that they weren't actually invited.
31:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was interesting to hear how he actually rung
31:57
Speaker 1: them all up and he said that most of them
31:59
Speaker 1: sounded quite embarrassed, the editors, about being uninvited.
32:03
Speaker 2: But he said that when he called Piers Morgan, who
32:05
Speaker 2: was the editor at The Mirror at the time, Piers
32:08
Speaker 2: just snarled at annoyance at his request and then hung
32:11
Speaker 2: up on him. He went on to.
32:12
Speaker 1: Say that he assumed that Piers Morgan was must have
32:15
Speaker 1: been feeling particularly guilty because four years earlier he had
32:18
Speaker 1: published photos of Diana which were taken with hidden cameras. Yeah,
32:22
Speaker 1: these were photos of Princess Diana in a gym. I
32:24
Speaker 1: think that the guy who sold them made something like
32:28
Speaker 1: $ 300, 000 off them. But the issue is that Piers Morgan
32:32
Speaker 1: was actually working at The Sun the time that those
32:35
Speaker 1: photos were published. He only joined The Mirror as an
32:38
Speaker 1: editor in 1995. So this is why Piers is pissed off.
32:43
Speaker 1: So on the day of the book's release, he threatened
32:46
Speaker 1: to sue Earl Spencer and he labelled his statements as
32:49
Speaker 1: incorrect and fabricated inaccuracies.
32:51
Speaker 2: Now, Earl Spencer has since.
32:53
Speaker 1: Apologised for the error, but he has stood by his
32:56
Speaker 1: account that Piers Morgan was surly and annoyed when.
32:59
Speaker 2: He spoke to him over the phone.
33:01
Speaker 1: This is kind of bad though because making a mistake
33:03
Speaker 1: like this does bring into question the other accuracies of
33:06
Speaker 1: this book. It unfortunately does. But for me, this is
33:10
Speaker 1: a fact-checking error. This isn't an error around a conversation
33:14
Speaker 1: that was had. Earl Spencer himself said he just assumed
33:17
Speaker 1: that he was working as the editor because there was
33:20
Speaker 1: a huge court case that ensued.
33:21
Speaker 2: So it would have gone on for years.
33:23
Speaker 1: It's true because it is very different to relaying a
33:25
Speaker 1: conversation that you had, particularly a big conversation like this,
33:28
Speaker 1: you know, your sister coming to you saying that.
33:30
Speaker 2: She's about to divorce the future king of England.
33:33
Speaker 1: I love when the journalist followed up after the valet
33:35
Speaker 1: comment saying, you know, you're an historian. Do you feel
33:38
Speaker 1: uncomfortable putting in a claim like this considering you can't
33:42
Speaker 1: back it up?
33:42
Speaker 2: And he's like, hey. I literally can. This is a
33:45
Speaker 2: conversation that I had. Like this is a conversation that
33:48
Speaker 2: I had with my sister.
33:48
Speaker 1: Can I just quickly point out, in case anyone comes
33:51
Speaker 1: for us, Sophie and I did have a debate whether
33:53
Speaker 1: it's pronounced valet or valet in Australia. So in England,
33:58
Speaker 1: I swear on shows like Downton Abbey, they call them valets.
34:01
Speaker 2: But in America, they say valet. It's valet. I'm pretty adamant.
34:05
Speaker 1: Anyway, I think that's all we've got time for today.
34:09
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to another episode of Outspoken.
34:13
Speaker 1: If you have enjoyed today's show, could you please make
34:15
Speaker 1: sure you are subscribed on Apple Podcast and also Spotify
34:18
Speaker 1: and leave us a five star review. Now on our subs,
34:21
Speaker 1: you may want to listen if you have a reunion
34:24
Speaker 1: coming up. Someone just messaged me before saying that they
34:26
Speaker 1: have their 10 year school reunion coming up and they
34:31
Speaker 1: sympathize with us because we spoke about our I'm going
34:34
Speaker 1: to say that, our 20-year school reunion. It's coming up
34:37
Speaker 1: in a couple of weeks and I've been absolutely haunted
34:39
Speaker 1: because someone has decided to make up an Instagram account
34:44
Speaker 1: reliving all of the fun moments from high school. It's
34:47
Speaker 1: literally giving me PTSD. I'm not going to name our
34:49
Speaker 1: school because I don't want anyone looking for it. Do
34:51
Speaker 1: you know what's just popped up now is a scene
34:53
Speaker 1: from the dance floor. I mean, luckily we were not
34:56
Speaker 1: on it. I literally screenshot it to send to our
34:58
Speaker 1: best friend.
34:58
Speaker 2: I spotted our best friend in it. Oh, my God.
35:02
Speaker 1: It's literally every day there's something that fucking haunts me
35:05
Speaker 1: from this page. But anyway, if you want to hear
35:08
Speaker 1: more about that, that is on our subs channel. No
35:11
Speaker 1: one from high school, listen, please. We did go ham
35:13
Speaker 1: a bit on there.
35:14
Speaker 2: Didn't we? There's a bit of a pop culture twist
35:16
Speaker 2: to it too.
35:17
Speaker 1: One of the people at our high school is now
35:19
Speaker 1: appearing on a new reality TV show.
35:22
Speaker 2: We won't go into it. Or an old reality TV show, really. Yeah,
35:25
Speaker 2: we won't go into further detail. You've got to go
35:26
Speaker 2: subscribe to find out. That interesting nugget.
35:30
Speaker 1: This episode was recorded on the traditional land of the
35:32
Speaker 1: Kaurna people of the Adelaide Plains.
35:35
Speaker 2: We pay respect to elders past and present.