Latest / The Permission Slip / S2 | E10 Christopher Solomon

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S2 | E10 Christopher Solomon · The Permission Slip

• S2 • E10 - Solomon === Christopher Solomon: Screen 1, 2, 3. How is my audio? Matt Kosterman: Sounds good here. Am I seeing the little line? Which is good. Come. Hi, welcome back. the permission slip. This is Matt, and today I'm here with Christopher Solomon Christopher's coming to me from the beautiful Mendocino County, California, and he is a somatic salvia guide, and we're gonna dive into what that means. 'cause I'm betting that many, if not most people listening, have never heard of the plant called Salvia, which is salvia de NorAm. Matt Kosterman: Is that correct, Christopher? Yeah. Salvia de Norm. Yeah. Uh, so welcome Christopher. Thanks for being here. It's good to Christopher Solomon: Yeah, Matt Kosterman: And Christopher Solomon: good to be here. Thanks for having me. Matt Kosterman: yeah, of course. I love this stuff. So, um, you are, uh, and have been for many years now guiding people with this, uh, teacher. Christopher Solomon: Right, right, right. Yeah. And as you said it, it's one that, um, many people either know nothing about or the things that they do know about it. Just make it seem as if it's some weird, terrifying substance that has no practical application. And so I, I, I like to educate and teach people that there's a much different and better way in which to engage with Salvia. Matt Kosterman: I love that. And I've seen some of your, um, exchanges on the, on the, the boards that we're on, and it's, it's, um, it's amazing, amazing stuff. Um, it's one that I haven't tried, not, uh, could be on the, could be on the horizon. I like to, you know, to pry all the things. Christopher Solomon: Mm-hmm. Matt Kosterman: but, um. Tell, tell, uh, tell us how did, how did you get into this? Matt Kosterman: Tell a little bit about your origin story. You said you're from South Africa and came to the States as a young boy, and Christopher Solomon: Yep. Yep. Matt Kosterman: your path been to, to working with this, uh, beautiful teacher? Christopher Solomon: Yeah, it's been a long winding organic path that's just happened naturally over the years. Um, you know, I was born in South Africa in Johannesburg, lived there for the first 14 years of my life and then moved to America when I was 14. And, you know, when I was going through school, you know, I was me, I was going down the track of. Christopher Solomon: Psychology and finance and technology and all, all the things that, um, I, you know, were very career worthy. And so, you know, after I graduated college, I had an internship that turned into a, like a finance database job, which I really thought was terribly boring. And I think some people get enjoyment and pleasure out of working with databases, but it just wasn't my bag. Christopher Solomon: But, you know, all, all along, for many, many years, since I was in high school. I've just been working with Salvia personally and so, you know, I was in high school when I first, uh, found out about Salvia. Um, and at first it was just kind of a random, meaningless experience that just felt bizarre and didn't really seem like it had much practical application. Christopher Solomon: But then when I learned about exploring much, much lower doses versus higher doses and incorporating meditation into it, it completely turned into a different substance. And, um, so Matt Kosterman: So, so just lemme just back up for a second. So coming from like South Africa, and I think you said you moved to Texas, to the Dallas area, right? So Christopher Solomon: mm-hmm. Matt Kosterman: that had to be a bit of a culture shock, um, Christopher Solomon: was definitely, Matt Kosterman: the weather Christopher Solomon: yeah. Yeah, it was, um. Yeah, it was, um, it was a strange, uh, experience moving there, but I was also kind of excited to move to America as a young kid, you know? So it was, um, I was like, oh, I'm moving to the place where movies are made and everything was new and different and everyone spoke funny, at least according to me. Christopher Solomon: And then they thought I spoke funny and, Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Christopher Solomon: um. So there was some culture shock for sure, but it was more of an excitement of culture shock, more than, uh, more than a, oh my God, what have I gotten myself into? Matt Kosterman: Okay. So it was, yeah, home life was fine. Like growing up Christopher Solomon: Yeah. Yeah. No, home life is fine, you know? Um, no, no major turmoils or, or, or anything like that. I mean, Matt Kosterman: okay. Christopher Solomon: yeah, I mean I had more when I was younger, I had more physical, um. Challenges 'cause I was run over by a car when I was a kid and that needed like seven reconstructive surgeries and broken bones and arms and stuff like that. Christopher Solomon: And um, so, you know, while, while the home life was fine, it was more about getting, overcoming, uh, physical. Health challenges. And actually one of the, one of the main things that got me started on my path with realizing that Salvia was a healing plant, was a, um, unexpected, spontaneous healing experience that I had from smoking salvia. Christopher Solomon: And we can get into the details of, of all that later. But, um, Matt Kosterman: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing. Were you, was the accident in South Africa or in Dallas? Christopher Solomon: it was, yeah. Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Africa. Okay. So it Christopher Solomon: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: cat, it wasn't like a big Cadillac with with horns on the front of it or anything Christopher Solomon: No, no, no, it wasn't. Um, and I mean, I, I didn't really, I don't remember what the car looked like at all actually, because it came with me pretty quickly. And then, you know, I was completely unconscious for a good, long while and woke up in the back of the ambulance with, you know, just a very traumatic, bad, bad accident. Christopher Solomon: Um, but I've healed very well and, you know, um, they were very. South Africa at the time. And so, um, but it, it's been more about, you know, um, you know, so salvia can be helpful with physiological ailments, but then also, you know, the clients that I work with, I work with people with PTSD and addiction problems, or people who want to use it for meditation. Christopher Solomon: So there's a wide range of, um, uh, use cases for why stelvia can be helpful. Matt Kosterman: So you were, so you're just, you're in high school down in Dallas, and it was like, somebody's like, Hey, like we got this, we got this cool plant that'll get you high. Was it this kind of like, Christopher Solomon: Yeah, pretty much. I mean, I was, I was in my, um, 11th grade physics class and um, this kid that was sitting in front of me turned around and he was like, Hey, Chris, have you, and this is where Salvia was legal everywhere. Um, Matt Kosterman: yeah. Christopher Solomon: so. So currently SA is federally legal and it is legal or illegal in certain states. Christopher Solomon: So it's legal in California, legal in Oregon, but then there's some states like now Texas, where it's illegal. So a lot of that. Matt Kosterman: think, Christopher Solomon: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. A lot of that was outlawed in 2009, I believe. But um, yeah, no, this kid was like, Hey, there's this stuff called salvia and you can get it at the local smoke shop and you just smoke it and it's a really intense five minute trip and then it's over. Christopher Solomon: And I was like, Hmm. That sounds appealing. Matt Kosterman: like a Christopher Solomon: Like, Matt Kosterman: whip it, Christopher Solomon: like a natural whip. Yeah, exactly. You're like, Ooh, something to alter my consciousness, you know? 'cause I just recently learned about cannabis and I was like, oh wow. There's actually quite a lot to explore in this internal mental mindscape that we have. And, um. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Christopher Solomon: So, you know, I went to the smoke shop and I bought some salvia and, you know, I asked the guy like, how much do I use? And he was like, well, it's not for human consumption. It's in like, in incense use only. Um, so we can't really tell you how much to use. Um, but then they, he proceeded to go on and say like, but all you gotta do is load a big bowl and just smoke as much of it as you can. Christopher Solomon: And you've only got like. One chance to do it right and you need to use a torch lighter. And so, um, which was still unfortunately much of the common advice that people are given. And the opposite is true. I mean, Salvi is one of the most potent, naturally occurring hallucinogenic substances on the planet. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Christopher Solomon: And so, so when you, so I went home and smoked a big bowl, and I just kind of felt myself being turned into a two-dimensional plane and being stretched out and rolled up like a carpet. And it was just weird. And it was like five minutes of feeling. Um. Like my body was physically being contorted and twisted, and then I like got plopped back into my body and I was like, wow, that was weird and I don't want to do that again. Christopher Solomon: Um, so, but then, you know. Matt Kosterman: if that, I wonder if that was related to your, you know, if that was the beginning of the, the healing that your butt, you know, it was like ironing you out from all of your, your injury. Christopher Solomon: Right. You know, I mean this is, this is what I've noticed with the clients that I work with many times when you know, 'cause again, I use much lower doses with my clients. You will find salvia going to places in their body where they had an injury, even if it's an injury that's really, really old. I was. Christopher Solomon: Working with someone recently, and Salvi just kept going to their elbow every single time, and they just were, it was very localized. And they were like, yeah, like the only thing I'm aware of is just this like wave-like water massaging body work type, fascial release stuff that's happening on my elbow area. Christopher Solomon: And they didn't really even. Associated with the injury that they had. 'cause it was so long ago. Um, and so yeah, the, the salvia can be a really informative body worker. Matt Kosterman: Interesting. Oh, so you, okay, so you have this magic carpet ride as it, Christopher Solomon: Right? Right. Matt Kosterman: it were, right. Christopher Solomon: Magic carpet rye that just kind of felt sort of dysphoric and alien. Um, and then I didn't do it for a while and then I came back to it again. Um, 'cause by then I was in college and I smoked some with my college roommates and all leopard happened is, you know, you just all. Laugh hysterically for a couple of minutes, um, be kind of confused. Christopher Solomon: Um, and then there would also be maybe the presence of like, other presences in the room with you, but you couldn't quite see them. Um, Matt Kosterman: but you Christopher Solomon: and so, Matt Kosterman: You knew somebody was like, you knew there was a being there. It just, but it wasn't visible. Christopher Solomon: yeah, but it was kind of, it was vague enough to where you thought like, maybe it was just the presence of my roommates that, that were with me at the time, you know? Um. So it was weird though because even though that these experiences were, um, not necessarily pleasurable or even very insightful at all, there was still something that kind of kept me going back. Christopher Solomon: There was some every like. Four to six months or once a year, it would kind of like come up again like, Hey, why didn't you explore some salvia? And, um, it all changed when I was still in college at the time, and this was the same batch of salvia that I'd had for years. Um, I was like, oh, I haven't had salvia in a long time. Christopher Solomon: Let me have some salvia. And right before I smoked the salvia. And an almost intrusive voice came into my head and it stopped me right as, as I was about to smoke it. And it said, wait, meditate first. And I was like, oh, wow. That was, that was a surprisingly intrusive thought. Matt Kosterman: Yeah, Christopher Solomon: and Matt Kosterman: like almost like a higher self. Would you characterize it as Christopher Solomon: yeah. Yeah. Matt Kosterman: aspect? Another aspect of your being in this Christopher Solomon: Other aspect of my being, um, or some other being that was communicating with me. I didn't even think about it that much at the time. I was just like, I was like, Hmm. You know, I mean that was, that was kind of intrusive enough to where I might as well listen to what it has to say. And so all I. Matt Kosterman: you have a meditation? Did you have a meditation practice? Like did you, because if at that age, I didn't even know what meditation was. Christopher Solomon: Yeah. Um, I used to have a meditation practice when I was younger, and then I kind of stopped and then, um, so in this particular case, all I did was I just took 10 slow deep breaths, and on the 10th inhalation I inhaled the salvia. Held my breath and exhaled. And that experience, even the way that came on, was radically different. Christopher Solomon: It was a lot more visual. It was a lot more, um, uh. Like stereo, um, all, all surrounding stereo with these colorful grid lines were coming in. But the thing that was really amazing was that then about a few feet in front of me and to the left out of these energetic lines that were in my room, I saw this female salvia entity appear in front of me. Christopher Solomon: And, and I'd never had a entity experience like that. You know, I mean, maybe, you know, I've been doing mushrooms recreationally and I just, you know, seen the world around me morphing with visuals. But this was something that, there was this full being outside of me looking at me. And, um, what I said was, I said out loud, I said, oh, there you are. Christopher Solomon: Um, which was, and that's just what I just automatically said. And, and this being said back to me, it was communicating telepathically with me, and it said, yes, here I am. And I've always been here Matt Kosterman: Uhhuh. Christopher Solomon: like, almost like I've been with you, like since even before this life. Like she, she was, she was talking about, you know, multiverse, timelines there Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Christopher Solomon: and, um, Matt Kosterman: In is, as Christopher Solomon: always, yeah. Christopher Solomon: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Yeah. All the time. Christopher Solomon: Free 3D Timespace type thing. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Christopher Solomon: And um, and so then it just then trans transformed into this felt telepathic communication of just love and smiles. Matt Kosterman: Mm. Christopher Solomon: And it felt like I was being wrapped in a ribbon. And the ribbon was constructed of smiles. Matt Kosterman: mm. Christopher Solomon: And, um, and so we, you know, we, I looked at her, she looked at me for a couple of minutes and then it, then it kind of faded away and the experience faded away. Christopher Solomon: But I was extremely moved after that. And um, and that really keyed me into one thing that makes Salvia so different is. I was aware that it's, it seemed as if the plant itself, that there was this some intelligence behind the plant and the intelligence within Salvi was aware that I'd meditated beforehand and had taken it seriously and it was like, alright, now I can show myself to him. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: taking, yeah, he's listening. Christopher Solomon: he listening. Right, right. Yeah. So. Matt Kosterman: this, and this was a, a fairly lar This was like a bowl, like a, like a bong bowl full of, sounds like a still pretty high dose. Christopher Solomon: Yeah. Um, well by that point, I, I was doing less high doses just because that had some sort of scary experiences as well, but, so, but it was a medium, it was a medium high dose. It, it was Matt Kosterman: yeah, yeah. Christopher Solomon: higher than the doses that I start my clients on when I did the guided sessions. Matt Kosterman: Sure. Christopher Solomon: Mm mm. Matt Kosterman: And so, so now you had established the, the connection, the handshake, if you will, the, Christopher Solomon: Right, right. And I was like, well this is fascinating because how I approach this makes a radical difference. Um, whereas with. Matt Kosterman: set and setting. Christopher Solomon: Setting. Um, but with mushrooms, you know, I could go to mushrooms recreationally and just have a great time. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Christopher Solomon: but with salvia, even though it can be pleasurable and it can be, uh, be a wonderful experience, um, it kind of demands that you. Christopher Solomon: Approach it from a place of reverence, respect, um, silence and stillness. So it's a great, it's more of a relational plant that you get in a relationship with it over time, and it really appreciates silence and stillness. So meditation in a quiet room, um, not, not music in the background, or not looking at like a black light poster or watching clips of family guy on your phone, or all the things that people do when they take other substances. Matt Kosterman: Right. Sounds sim similar to the toad medicine to bufo in that it, it demands a, a reverence. It's definitely not a recreational Christopher Solomon: Right, Matt Kosterman: of a, people do it and I can't even fathom, but um, Christopher Solomon: right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I would say, you know. Toad medicine takes more physiological, surrendering. You really have to let yourself go into it. Matt Kosterman: yeah. Christopher Solomon: Um, Matt Kosterman: Okay. Christopher Solomon: but with salvia, especially at the light doses, um, it's more of a gentle emergence into another space that opens up inside oneself. Matt Kosterman: Oh, Christopher Solomon: So, Matt Kosterman: Okay. Christopher Solomon: you know, with Salvia what's really nice is even if you go quite deep into salvia space, there's a type of clarity and lucidity that remains, that's not there with other medicines. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Christopher Solomon: There's um, you know, there's this authentic connection with self that gets very clean and very pure on salvia, and that can be. For all sorts of reasons. Like, um, you know, getting in, getting in touch with your unconditioned authentic self that is the real you versus the you that's been living for others. Christopher Solomon: And so you, you know, you can use it for, um, just reconnecting back to a eternal rooted sense of yourself, um, and just getting of that inner voice of clarity. So it's a, it's excellent for listening deeply to yourself. Matt Kosterman: Right. Which would explain why the meditation is Christopher Solomon: Right, Matt Kosterman: sort of a pre pret tuning in. Christopher Solomon: right, right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Matt Kosterman: So this, so this is in college when this happens, uh, when you have this experience and you're, you're studying to be a finance and database kind of guy. Christopher Solomon: Yeah. In college, I went to University of Texas at Dallas and I got two degrees, one in psychology and the other in finance. Matt Kosterman: Hmm. Christopher Solomon: And, um, so. So at that point I was just using salvia just for, again, personal exploration. Um, and then, you know, I then after that, every time I smoked Salvia, I met other entities and then the entities sort of started to present themselves to me in much more tangible forms. Christopher Solomon: Um, but there was this one particular slv experience that I had, and I. We've spoken about it in great depth in some other podcast interviews that I've done. But, um, basically I had ear plugs and eye shades on and I smoked a large bowl of extract and, um, I. Long story short, just went way too far and just thought I'd killed myself and thought the universe no longer existed and everything was an illusion. Christopher Solomon: And I just became a, a, a pure vibrational wave at the height of the experience. And I was just, everything that there always ever was. Um, Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Christopher Solomon: was at the peak. It was actually extremely lonely because there was no other to relate to anymore. It was only my own awareness and my own consciousness. Um, and so. Christopher Solomon: And that was a, a hole that, that was a very, very life changing experience. But it was after that, that, um, I realized, okay, so, you know, that kind of scared me away from Salvia for a couple of years actually. Um, and then I, Matt Kosterman: As it as it would. Christopher Solomon: right, right. Matt Kosterman: pretty, Christopher Solomon: Yeah. Yeah. No, Matt Kosterman: pretty Christopher Solomon: I mean. Matt Kosterman: the bend. Christopher Solomon: Right, right. Yeah, no, it was extremely meaningful and extremely profound and again, taught me a lot. Christopher Solomon: Um, but I was like, oh, I don't want to ever do that again. Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Christopher Solomon: And, um, but then, you know, a couple years went by and, um, uh. And this was, this was in 2011 or 2012 at that point. Um, I got, um, like I got strep throat and a sinus infection and I went on some antibiotics and that sort of cleared up, but it didn't quite fully clear up. Christopher Solomon: And what remained was this, um, swollen lymph node that was in my neck and acid reflux that was just not going away for months, many months. I. Tried every single antibiotic and I did a super clean diet and I stopped drinking coffee and stopped eating meat. And I just tried. I was like, you know, I don't know what's going on. Christopher Solomon: And I couldn't figure out what the problem was. And I went to a bunch of doctors and they're like, well, it's probably just recurring tonsillitis. And so you have to have your tonsils removed. Um. And so I was in Santa Barbara at the time and um, I very randomly out of the blue was like, oh, salvia, I remember that stuff. Christopher Solomon: There was just very randomly, it was just like, smoke some salvia, give that a go again. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Christopher Solomon: And, um, I was like, Hmm, okay. And so I loaded a little bit in a pipe, like a small pinch of extract and um, I smoked that and then. What happened then was, you know, usually with salvia, I, I would feel energies moving through my body and outside and away from my body. Christopher Solomon: But in this particular experience, what happened was all the energy in my body, kind of like little marching ants, like marched up towards where the swollen lymph node was in my neck and um, and my hand automatically picked itself up. Um, and the thought I had at the time was, oh, why don't I just quickly heal myself? Christopher Solomon: And so what I did is I took my hand and I, I pressed the lymph node and, you know, which I'd been doing for months. You know, when you have like a, a painful part in the body, you can't help but poke it and jiggle it around and stuff like that. And, Matt Kosterman: Right. Christopher Solomon: and so in this case, what I did though is I, I rubbed the lymph node in a circle and then I felt it split in two, and then I did that again, and that split into four. Christopher Solomon: Then I did that again, and that split into eight. And so every single time I rubbed it, it was splitting smaller and smaller like a cell dividing until it just got to the size of tiny grains of sand. Um, and then when I could no longer feel it anymore, the energy that had congregated around the lymph node just kind of dispersed out my body and it went through my body. Christopher Solomon: Poof. And then out my body, I felt it going outta my body. And then I lay there for like another, you know, 10 minutes. So this was all in the span of, you know, five minutes and, um, Matt Kosterman: it's very quick. Quick in and quick out. Christopher Solomon: yeah, exactly. Exactly. And, um, yeah, so I lay there and then I kind of came to outta my meditation and I thought like, what the hell? Christopher Solomon: And I, I felt where the lymph node was and I didn't feel it anymore. And I remember jumping out of the bed and going to the bathroom and opening my mouth and looking down the throat to see if I could see it, and I couldn't see it anymore. And the lymph node was gone and it stayed gone and it never came back. Matt Kosterman: Swollenness of the node was, yeah. All the swelling was gone. Christopher Solomon: Yeah, completely gone. And I was like, what the heck? This was a physical nodule in my body that the doctors said needed to be surgically removed, you know? And um, and I was completely blown away. 'cause I didn't know. I wasn't, I didn't know that a spontaneous healing like that could happen. Matt Kosterman: Uh Christopher Solomon: Um. And so, you know, and then one of the things I thought about as well is like, why aren't more people talking about this, like this plant, like something about the salvia just fixed me right up when nothing else that I tried was fixing me. Christopher Solomon: And um, you know, I was trying all sorts of other herbal conclusions as well and just nothing was working. And so, Matt Kosterman: there's a, there's a reason it's been made illegal, right? I mean, Christopher Solomon: yeah. Yeah, that could very well be one of them. Matt Kosterman: not particularly profitable if it yields you in Christopher Solomon: Right. Matt Kosterman: minutes. Christopher Solomon: Yeah, exactly right. And so, um, yeah, I was like, why didn't the doctors tell me about this? Or why isn't anyone from the medical community talking about this? And so then I went online and I, I, you know, I googled like, um, salvia healing illness or something like that. And, Matt Kosterman: Sure. Christopher Solomon: know, then I found some forums online. Christopher Solomon: It was only then that I found out that the serum Azteca Eros, outside of Oaxaca use Salus mainly specifically for healing physical illnesses. Matt Kosterman: Oh, no kidding. That's the lineage. Christopher Solomon: That's a lineage. Yeah. And um, I also saw it was some, one of these old forums online, like a Blue, blue light or DMT next forums that were early back in the day. Um, and there were Matt Kosterman: A A and those, Christopher Solomon: mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, and. Yeah, so I saw people, a few people there saying like, yeah, whenever I get sick I smoke salvia and then I'm not sick anymore. Christopher Solomon: And then someone, someone else posted and was like, yeah, I have, um, I have aids. And whenever my T-cell count gets too low, I smoke salvia and it brings my T-cell counts back up. Matt Kosterman: Wow. Christopher Solomon: and so I was like, okay, I'm not the only one that's experienced some sort of physical healing from this. Um, and so then that really keyed me into the fact that, okay, so here's this plant that it knows when you meditate and take it seriously and it can get you in touch with entities that communicate with you telepathically, or it can use you to boost your immune system and heal physical illnesses. Christopher Solomon: Um, Matt Kosterman: Wow. Christopher Solomon: yeah. Matt Kosterman: cla it like it knows when you've been naughty and when you've been nice. It's, it's, Christopher Solomon: Yeah, exactly. And if you've been naughty, it'll let you know that it knows and tell you to get your shit together. Matt Kosterman: yeah. Yeah. Right. Christopher Solomon: Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, so salvia can either be an extremely warm, loving, nurturing presence, or it can really be quite stern and just let you know what's what. But it's coming from a place of love at the end of the day. Matt Kosterman: Sure. Christopher Solomon: And, um. Matt Kosterman: had that experience with mushrooms. I, I took too much in a ceremony and I had been working through this pelvic thing and it just beat the ever living daylights outta me like three hours, just shaking me and just deep, deep pain. And it was, yeah, it was, was not happy with me. Christopher Solomon: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, sometimes we need, we need a lot to listen, you know? Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Christopher Solomon: Um, yeah. And you mentioned Arrowwood. Um, this was kind of exciting like a couple of months ago, Arrowwood actually published one of my salvia trip reports, which I, I think is just fun to now be, have an article on arrowwood, because you know, that's OG and Matt Kosterman: Yeah, it's Christopher Solomon: Yeah. Christopher Solomon: Yeah, it was. Matt Kosterman: just for, for the listener, for the listeners. It's E-R-O-W-I d.com. It's an old, old Christopher Solomon: Or org. Matt Kosterman: oh.org, sorry. arrowwood.org. Christopher Solomon: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: line psychedelic resource. It's been around for, I God, at least 20 years, if not more. It's a really dated Christopher Solomon: Since the nineties, I think. Matt Kosterman: the nine. Yeah, and, and I Christopher Solomon: Yeah, Matt Kosterman: changed the website since Christopher Solomon: no, not at all. So if you, if you wanna have a nostalgic view for what web design looked like in the late nineties, go check out era. Matt Kosterman: I think, yeah, I Christopher Solomon: This was, Matt Kosterman: is more modern. Christopher Solomon: yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, this is, um, uh, the good old days. No, this was, um, no, they, they published the experience report of, um, I was one of the participants in Johns Hopkins study that they did on Salvia, and they gave me a, a high dose of Salvia while I was in an MRI machine. Matt Kosterman: Oh, oh, cool. What Christopher Solomon: Um, Matt Kosterman: it show? Christopher Solomon: um, so. Matt Kosterman: they, did, did they, did it, I mean, you had obviously an experience that you wrote about, did they get data out of it? Christopher Solomon: Yeah, they did. They did. Um, yeah, the, so the experience you can read about, um, either on Arrowwood or on my website, on my, which is, um, salvia healings.com, I have it listed there. Matt Kosterman: Yeah, and I'll put it in the, I'll put it in the text below. Salvia healings.com. Christopher Solomon: yeah. And what they found was, um, that mainly that salvia affects the default mode network more than any of the other classic psychedelics. Matt Kosterman: Oh Christopher Solomon: Um, much, much more than any of them actually. So, you know, one of the things that our default mode network is responsible for is our autobiographical sense of ourself. Christopher Solomon: And so, and that's why I feel like it can be such a useful therapeutic tool because when you use salvia with mindfulness, you kind of start to lose the story of your identity and that helps you just fall into the present experience of what's actually alive in you right now. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Christopher Solomon: And, um, so yeah, there's, Matt Kosterman: is, which is ultimately sort of, if there's a point to meditation, that's, that's one of them, right? Is to Christopher Solomon: yeah. Matt Kosterman: Right. To bring you Christopher Solomon: Right, right. Matt Kosterman: They talk about the monks when they meditate and they go to gamma waves, and Christopher Solomon: Mm-hmm. Matt Kosterman: default mode network basically shuts down. Christopher Solomon: Right, right. So salvia, uh, like a light dose of salvia drops you into a meditative space like nothing else. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Christopher Solomon: and so, so now when I say a light dose, you know what I was, you know, my, from my years of working with Salvia, I realized that, okay, this is fascinating, but scary. So then I kind of asked myself the question, um, what is the least amount that I need to smoke at all in order to feel anything? Christopher Solomon: And so, um, that's when I started to, um. Essentially see what's the lowest dose that I needed. And I started smoking teeny tiny doses. And these teeny tiny doses then, uh, led to me realizing that you can actually slowly and gently use the plant. And so the, the. Common knowledge of smoke a lot and you got a rush was completely wrong. Christopher Solomon: What you actually should do is smoke a tiny amount, wait a few minutes, and then if you wanna go deeper, then you can smoke another tiny amount and then go a little bit deeper. So you can slowly work your way into the experience. And there's different benefits, um, depending on how deep you go. Matt Kosterman: Wow. Okay, so just titrate your way in and, Christopher Solomon: Mm-hmm. Matt Kosterman: in a little bit more control of, of things Christopher Solomon: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Mm-hmm. And, and you're more able to have agency and autonomy during the experience. So at the, at the very high dose, your agency and autonomy is kind of completely taken away 'cause you just ripped to this other dimension and this other land, which people call salvia land, which is a, it, it's a, uh, place that exists that. Christopher Solomon: Even if one hasn't read anything about Salvia, you go to Salvia land and you're like, oh yeah, I saw that. Same thing. It's actually a place where people are seeing the same things. Matt Kosterman: Oh, interesting. It's like the, uh, they talk about the, especially non nonverbal people on the spectrum. They all go to the, the hill. So they're, they're all, they're meeting, they all have the same description of this place where they meet in non-physical reality called the Hill. Christopher Solomon: I've not heard that. That's interesting. Matt Kosterman: It came up in the telepathy tapes, and then on one of my other podcasts with Theresa Rowley, who's, um, able to communicate with nonverbal, nonverbal humans and, and, and, um, yeah, they go to the hill. So, so you're gonna salvia land, which is next to Candyland, I'm sure. Uh, Christopher Solomon: Right, right. Yeah. There's this candy land. The Soviet land is kind of, can be a little bit cartoony and circusy. There's lots like carnivals and circus tents, but then there's also things like, um, school houses and day laborers and, uh, villagers and, um. Town squares and little huts and. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Wow. You know, I was in, uh, when I went to Ecuador um, an ayahuasca retreat back in 2019. I happened to swing through an, uh, a gallery exhibit in Kuka. By, uh, uh, Chaco. Jorge Chaco is the artist, and he must have gone to Salvia land because he, he painted this like 40 foot long mural of this amazing carnival. Like, Christopher Solomon: Oh, Matt Kosterman: I'll, I'll send you a, I'll send you a picture I took of it, and it's just the colors and the depth and all these different things were Christopher Solomon: oh yeah. Yes. Send me that because Matt Kosterman: just fascinating. Christopher Solomon: I recognize it. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Yeah. See if it's familiar. And I, it was just so funny 'cause it was, you know, the way the universe works, I think my daughter was down there at the time and I was visiting her and she's like, oh yeah, go. Matt Kosterman: There's a museum over there. And I walk into the whole museum was filled with this guy's work and it was all super trippy. I mean, I was, it was before I had done the ayahuasca, but it was definitely, know, a step on the ladder. Christopher Solomon: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. So, so now, so now you've, so this is like what, 10 years ago? Matt Kosterman: 15 years ago. So you've figured out that you can titrate with it and, Christopher Solomon: Yeah, that, that was like 14 years ago. That was in 2012. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Christopher Solomon: Kind of crazy to say that 2012 was 14 years ago. Right. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Christopher Solomon: And so, uh, scary, but, and so, um, yeah, so then I just started, um, working with it at these low titrated doses and I noticed that you didn't have to. Go deep into a big experience, you could actually just dip your toe into the space and come back feeling really refreshed. Christopher Solomon: So, you know what some people like to do is they like to have just, um, like when I work with people with salvia, I send them the salvia and these little pre doses amounts. And, um, I also make this five volt water pipe that you use to preload all your doses beforehand so you don't have to reload your, um, your, uh, pipe mid journey. Christopher Solomon: So you can just stay connected with the experience Matt Kosterman: Like a, Christopher Solomon: and Matt Kosterman: like a revolver, right? Like an Christopher Solomon: like revolve. Exactly. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so, um, multidimensional, um, gravitational force field revolver. And, um, and I say gravitational force field because many times people can feel the forces of gravity while they're on salvia. They call it salvia gravity. Christopher Solomon: So you can actually feel these forces like kind of pulling down on your body. But oftentimes what that does as well is you can feel it pulling your awareness into your body. And so you can go really, really deep inside your internal felt somatic sense. So that's why it pairs nicely with, with somatic medicine. Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Christopher Solomon: But I was, I was still, you know, I was still doing my database consulting job at the time, but still really feeling more cold to doing this work with Salvia. Um, and then, you know, I, um, there was some lay layoffs at the company that I was in and I got laid off and I was like, oh, thank God I got laid off. Christopher Solomon: 'cause sometimes when you have a job that's comfortable, even though you hate it, it's kind of difficult to make the switch because, um. Money is necessary in this world we live in Matt Kosterman: Yep. Christopher Solomon: and still is. Yeah. Yeah. Imagine that. Um, and so, so then after it was laid off, I was like, oh, thank God. Finally I can actually start to shift my, my focus in life. Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Christopher Solomon: uh, then I went back to school for somatic psychotherapy and, um, first started educating people on salvia. Before I started guiding people on salvia, I started giving salvia lectures and, um, I was just like, I just need to. Let people know that this plant exists and that you can use it for a wide variety of reasons, and that it's, um, it's not scary. Christopher Solomon: It's actually can be quite euphoric. Um, so I still do salvia lectures, you know, and I, I still educate people and you know, that's what part of this podcast interview with as well is like, I really think it's vital to provide correct harm reduction, um, mindful information about this plant and. Yeah. And, Matt Kosterman: seen, I've seen, I've seen some of your events posted. That's, that's amazing. Christopher Solomon: mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so then it was through the course of giving these lectures that then people started to come up to me and they were like, Hey, you wanna guide me in a solving session? And, um, and. I was like, yeah, why not? And so, you know, I just started working with people and, you know, doing these low doses and incorporating what I learned from somatic psychotherapy. Christopher Solomon: Um, but then also a lot of what I learned was just directly from my many years of experience having a direct relationship with the plant. And, um, Matt Kosterman: you, are you working on people hands-on, uh, touch while they're, while they're as if called Christopher Solomon: generally not, no. Um, Matt Kosterman: No. Okay. Christopher Solomon: yeah. Matt Kosterman: somatics is kind of a wide, Christopher Solomon: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: you know, umbrella term. I was just Christopher Solomon: Right, and it's sort of a word that's just getting bandied about a lot now, sort of like mindfulness was as well, that people are talking about mindfulness and somatics. And so in my particular instance, what I mean by somatics is just having the awareness and tracking the felt sensations that are arising during the salvia experience and engaging with those. Christopher Solomon: 'cause I do all my, um, I do most of my guided svia sessions via Zoom, and so there's no. Matt Kosterman: right, right, right, right. Christopher Solomon: Yeah, so there's, there's no hands on. But then also salvia is different from say, MDMA, where one might want a handhold or you might need a hug or a back, a hand on the back for support. Um, but salvia is kind of a private personal experience where you don't really want touch and you don't need touch and you just kind of want to go, go deep within, um, or you can explore movement and motion. Christopher Solomon: Um, and so. Matt Kosterman: these low doses, you can still, you can be standing potentially, I Christopher Solomon: Yeah. Yeah. Matt Kosterman: dancing a little bit, moving, flowing. Christopher Solomon: Right, right. And but many times, you know, people are seated during the experience and you know, you can feel maybe like waves moving through you or you can feel your body moving through space while you're stationary. So it's almost as if you have. More freedom in these spaces because you can be sitting completely still with your eyes closed, but feel as if you're spinning up and out of your body, and you can do astral projection. Christopher Solomon: You can have out body experiences. So you can either use salvia to travel out of your body or you can use Salva to travel, travel deep within the body. Matt Kosterman: Back in. Yeah. Christopher Solomon: Yeah. Mm mm And Matt Kosterman: ultimately we're, we're all of it, right? I mean, ultimately Christopher Solomon: exactly Matt Kosterman: above and below and Yeah. Christopher Solomon: Right, right. And then you can see Matt Kosterman: Out. Christopher Solomon: what is, what is my personal relationship with internal versus external. Um, let me use that to get clear on what boundaries are, what are the boundaries of my being? Christopher Solomon: What are the boundaries that I also set up in other areas of my life as well? And so it's through the felt somatic lens that you can then engage with a psychological. And the metaphysical and, um, some of the story. But again, salvia doesn't really care too much about the story of our past, and it's more about just dropping into, um, you know, I like to say, at least from my first couple of sessions with people, you're just presenting yourself to salvia and you're learning what Salvia is like, and Salvia is learning what you're like. Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Christopher Solomon: And, um, then, and you know, sometimes people have a lot of physical sensations on it, but then other times people just go to a place of feeling nothing but pure deep stillness, like they're floating in a, a vast void. Um, but it's mm-hmm. Quite right. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Yeah. On uh, yeah. It's interesting 'cause I, I went there on Ayahuasca and it was, uh, it was the same place I went in back to back Dreams when I was like six years old. It was the void. I mean, it was just utter, complete and utter blackness. And there was just a knowingness that it was infinite, like way that you can't describe. Matt Kosterman: So, Christopher Solomon: Right. And the, the nice thing with salvia when you do go to the void is so you can sit there and you can be feeling in this still void space, but then if you want, you can open your eyes and you can kind of make yourself snap out of it and come back to reality. And then you can close your eyes again and kind of dip back in. Matt Kosterman: And Christopher Solomon: So Matt Kosterman: in. Christopher Solomon: yeah, it does give you, you know, if you use it with this titrated manner, it does give you the sense of agency and, um, ability to almost like co-create your experience with Sylvia. Matt Kosterman: Okay. And are you, are you tracking the timing and giving suggestion as to Okay. I think, you know, you want to go with another top, top up. Top up with another dose. Christopher Solomon: Exactly, exactly. You know, I like the weight at least five minutes between doses. Um, and then, you know, so the first couple of sessions are getting your timing right, getting your dosage dialed in, um, just showing you the various ways in which it can show up, because sometimes it shows up differently, even between bowls. Christopher Solomon: Like you'll smoke one bowl, you'll have your five minute experience, and you'll go in again, and it's just. Very different. It's, it's not, it's not always necessarily progressive Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Christopher Solomon: and so. Matt Kosterman: Interesting. Christopher Solomon: So I'm, I'm there, you know, taking notes, keeping track of the time, um, helping you to see where your awareness should be going. Christopher Solomon: 'cause sometimes people are looking for colorful visuals or they're looking for cannabis like thinking, and that's not really gonna be there. Um, so it, it, it's, it's. A combination of guidance, um, mindfulness as far as the fact that you're dropping them into the present experience. Um, and then, you know, a little bit of, you know, psychoanalysis and dream interpretation as well. Christopher Solomon: Um, it's, and I noticed Sylvia seems to present itself in the way that which the practitioner can most understand it. So for example. You know, when I work with people who've done a lot of parts work or IFS Salvia shows up almost like an IFS guide, and they can have different dialogues with different parts of themselves, um, or people who are body workers, salvia shows up as a body worker and they can feel their fascia being worked on. Christopher Solomon: Or people who are longtime meditators, salvia shows up as a meditation and breathing teacher. And so, um. And then I'm there to just work with, work with whatever's coming up between you and Sylvia. Matt Kosterman: And then from a, from a harm reduction standpoint, do the person doing the journey you do, they have somebody. Around somebody they can call if like somebody physically nearby. What's your recommendation there Christopher Solomon: Yeah. Um, at the low doses, it's generally not that imperative. Some people, some people like to have, um, they like to have their, um, you know, friend there or a family member just for support if need be. But it's, it's not imperative. But if you were to do a, a deep dive with LV and have a big dose. Um, then you definitely want someone around because you can get up and start walking around without realizing it, and then you just can fall and trip and hit your head and stuff like that. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. But, but really what I'm, what I'm hearing is that, and from what I've in a couple of incidences that I've seen on the internet is to really avoid the high doses because there's Christopher Solomon: Yeah, Matt Kosterman: the risk reward is, is out of balance. Christopher Solomon: Right, exactly. And if you do wanna go deep, titrate your way into the depths versus just jumping straight in. Mm. But many people feel like they need a big, deep experience, but then they start ex exploring light doses with salvia and they're like, oh, wow. I thought I needed some big aha blowout mo experience, but actually what I needed was just to. Christopher Solomon: Have a little bit of a reconnection with some other part of myself that I maybe haven't been paying attention to. So these, these soul experiences seem to, um, linger longer with people and, um, they kind of go a little bit deeper than the big, big, deep experiences. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Christopher Solomon: Yeah, yeah. Matt Kosterman: sure. Oh man. It's fascinating. Yeah. I'm, I'm in. Will you send me some, I I'm meeting it right now. Christopher Solomon: Yeah. Gladly. Matt Kosterman: It's, uh. Yeah, that's very cool. And, and, uh, and so you're for your own, for your own practice, then it's something that you commune with on a regular basis for and meditative purposes. Christopher Solomon: Yeah, I kind of use it as needed. Um, you know, you know, people always ask like, well, how often should I do it? And, you know, I like to say that, um, everyone finds their own rhythm and groove. Like sometimes people go through a period where they use it like. Once a week for a couple of months, and then they're like, okay, that's, that's good enough for now. Christopher Solomon: And then it kind of fades into the background and then they come to it again. Yeah. And so, um, you know, I use it. Uh, I mean some people use it a lot for insomnia as well. Um, if you smoke a little bit before bed, it does a really good job, especially if your insomnia is related to anxiety. Um, 'cause, um, low doses of salvia are amazingly helpful for anxiety and depression. Christopher Solomon: Um. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. So yeah, that, that brings up a good point, is like what, I mean, it's, it sounds like it's very, it's very somatic, but I know in one of our exchanges you talked about, working with people with Lyme disease, um, and helping them overcome the symptoms and, and getting clear, you know, getting clearer of the Lyme. Um, what are, what, what sort of things have you, what what, what have you with, with people and, and, and where have people been helped? Christopher Solomon: Yeah, it's, it's been a, a broad range. So, um, you know, there are some people who are just curious psycho notes and they just wanna explore salvia and see what it's like and then there are. Mm-hmm. Right. And then there are other people that, um, are like, oh, you know what? I've crippling depression and crippling anxiety, and so. Christopher Solomon: Um, you know, it's sometimes it, it's amazing. You'll see someone that they're almost like rocking back and forth with the amount of anxiety that they have, and the idea of sitting still with their eyes closed is, you know, might as well be torture. Um, but then we start with just these half doses of saling. Christopher Solomon: You just see everything in their nervous system settling and so. I like to say that solve you is a really great neutralizer. If you're down and lethargic and depressed, it'll bring you up. If you're kind of anxious and manic, it'll bring you down. So it just does a very good job of bringing you to a place of homeostasis Matt Kosterman: Mm. Christopher Solomon: and, um, so Matt Kosterman: yeah, which ties back to the whole default mode network. Right? Christopher Solomon: Right, exactly. Matt Kosterman: bringing you into the now. Christopher Solomon: Right, right. Yeah. Um, and then there are some people that it's really helpful for, um, inflammatory disorders, um, just in the gut specifically. Um, it's very, very good for GI issues and um, and also for just systemic inflammation. It's very helpful for that. So there's been a few people that I've worked with who got incredible relief from their arthritis after smoking salvia. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Christopher Solomon: um, because it affects, um, receptors in the brain called the kappa opioid receptors, and those are very closely tied to immunity and inflammation. Matt Kosterman: Yeah, Christopher Solomon: And then, um Matt Kosterman: any, anybody with rheumatoid arthritis Christopher Solomon: mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, um, yeah, there was this one particular lady I was working with, she was, she had a practice of smoking once a week and she just said her arthritis pain was gone. Christopher Solomon: And, um. And so, yeah, so inflammation, depression, anxiety, um, also, or just using it to deepen your meditation practice, um, or using it to, many people find that when they start working with Salvia, um, they find themselves being more productive in their life and having less resistance to getting things done. Christopher Solomon: So. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Christopher Solomon: So there's something about, um, you know, when smoke salvia, there's this pulling and pushing and forward movement experience that people can have. And I think there's something about feeling these movements go through the body that just seems like it's quite clearing and it kind of clears stagnant energy in one. Christopher Solomon: Um, you know, there's been a few people who they'll smoke salvia and even after their first session, our next session, they're like, you know what, like this past week I just started all those projects that I've been delaying forever. But the nice thing about it is it's not coming from a place of mania. Christopher Solomon: Sometimes, you know, you can, you can go to a retreat and you can have a huge experience and then you come home and you're like, oh my God, everything's amazing. I'm gonna do everything. Um, then you kind of. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Christopher Solomon: Exactly. And then you overextend yourself and then you crash and then you go back to normal. Christopher Solomon: Um, so what I like is with salvia, there's this forward movement experience. There's this feeling as if you're, there's less, um, obstacles in your way and synchronicity seen to line up, and it just sort of gets one back in sync with one's natural flow. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Okay. Christopher Solomon: mm. Matt Kosterman: what about, what about contraindications with like, uh, SSRIs and SNRIs and other Christopher Solomon: good question. Yeah. Right, right. So it's nice because, um, it doesn't work on the serotonin receptors, and so you can be on SSRIs and take salvia. Um, there's, you know, or you can be on, um, like antidepressants or you can be on Xanax or you can be, um, on Suboxone, um, on Rexel. Matt Kosterman: or, yeah. Christopher Solomon: Yeah. Yeah. Just the only thing that it's sort of, and I wouldn't even really call this a contraindication, but there is, um, a substance called Naltrexone, which also works on the capa opioid receptors, and that can dampen the effects of salvia a little bit, but there's, Matt Kosterman: like heroin, typically heroin users, right. Will be on naltrexone. Christopher Solomon: And, and some people are using low doses of naltrexone for chronic pain. Um. Yeah. Um, and so, but yeah, so salvia plays nicely with other substances and it also plays nicely with other planned medicines. Um, it's, so, it's very useful at helping integrate experiences, so you can take it after experience. Christopher Solomon: Um. Matt Kosterman: Like post, post mushroom journey. Christopher Solomon: Yeah, post mushroom or post MDMA, it's very good post MDMA because with MDMA you kind of get that like wired but tired experience afterwards where you're exhausted but you can't fall asleep. Um, and so salvia just kind of like settles that and Matt Kosterman: Brings you, brings you back down. So it, it sounds in many ways, like a, better and natural version of ketamine some of the sim some of the similar kind of characteristics. It sounds like not having the experience of it, but it works well. It works and plays well with others. Christopher Solomon: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Matt Kosterman: it's a bit of a dissociative, but it's also kind of can bring you into the now. Christopher Solomon: Exactly. Yeah. Matt Kosterman: uh, oh, uh, so go ahead. You were gonna say, Christopher Solomon: Oh, just, um, so with salvia there's something called reverse tolerance, so you actually need less of it over time. Matt Kosterman: oh, that was gonna be my next question was what's a, is there like an addiction profile? Christopher Solomon: Yeah, no, it. Matt Kosterman: a bit of a shadow side to ketamine. Christopher Solomon: Right. I know, unfortunately. Right. And so, um, yeah, so, you know, with ketamine you build tolerance very quickly and it can be quite addictive. Um, salvia you need less overtime. And, um, it's also, um, there's, um. I'm kind of thinking salvia experience I had where I smoked salvia and um, salvia kind of came in and I'd been using Ketamine more than I feel I should have been. Christopher Solomon: And Salvia came in and she said to me, she said, isn't it nice that I don't offer diminishing returns? And she was, she was talking about ketamine and I just had to start laughing. I was like, diminishing returns. What is this? You know? Um, Matt Kosterman: So, oh, I'm, I'm getting a, I'm getting a warning here that your storage is critically low Christopher Solomon: I see that too Matt Kosterman: Um, is there maybe empty or trash? Are you on a Mac or a PC or. Christopher Solomon: on a Mac. It says my browser storage is low. Uh, let's see what I have here. Matt Kosterman: I will let you do that so it doesn't run out while we're talking and then we'll just start it up and I'll have my audio guy put it together. Okay. Christopher Solomon: Okay. Matt Kosterman: So, so just go, you can just leave, leave and then come back when you have some free space Christopher Solomon: Okay, well, I emptied the. Matt Kosterman: or do. Christopher Solomon: Lead browsing data. There you go. Matt Kosterman: Unknown error occurred. Please try again. You see that one. Christopher Solomon: Oh yeah. Mm-hmm. Matt Kosterman: I always love the unknown errors. Christopher Solomon: I know, right? I just deleted. Okay, so I think that Did it. Matt Kosterman: Cool. Okay. So, um, going back to we, sorry, we had a little technical issue going back to the, um, uh, diminishing returns. I find that funny 'cause it's a bit of a finance, you know, Christopher Solomon: I Matt Kosterman: finance, uh, statement. Right. Christopher Solomon: I know. I've been, Matt Kosterman: Came Christopher Solomon: like, I haven't thought of diminishing returns in long, and I was Matt Kosterman: it's, yeah. Christopher Solomon: it Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Christopher Solomon: on actually. Matt Kosterman: Actually, I had an experience with ketamine. I was also doing a little bit too much of it recreationally. Um, just over the course of a couple weeks just getting into sort of a bad rut. And I remember going in one night I was with a woman and I was dating, and I heard very clearly this voice said, be careful. Christopher Solomon: Hmm. Matt Kosterman: And so I backed off. Yeah. I was like, okay, if I'm not, listen, if I'm not listening to that voice, then what are we doing here? Christopher Solomon: Exactly right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Uh. Christopher Solomon: so, um, yeah, and then also Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Christopher Solomon: the negative effects like on the lining of your bladder that Ketamine can have. And so, Matt Kosterman: Right. Christopher Solomon: you know, I, you know, ketamine has helped a lot of people and there's a lot of benefit to it, but there is a dark side to it. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. I mean, they all, they all have dark sides of course. I mean, you do too much sal and you can, you know, jump a timeline as people have done can be de deeply unsettling. But, uh, yeah, and it's, it seems as though the dark sides of ketamine are now. And then, you know, like we do as humans. We'll, you know, overplay all of that and forget about the fact that it actually can help people. Matt Kosterman: But it, it, uh, it sounds like, uh, I mean this has just been fascinating 'cause it sounds like s is a, is a wonderful compound and legal in many states, as you said, federal, federal, federally legal, Christopher Solomon: federally Matt Kosterman: but, but illegal in some states like Louisiana, Texas. Christopher Solomon: Yeah, there's, I think the, the lists on Wikipedia and, um, so, but no one's ever been, you know, one's checking for salvia, you know? Um, Matt Kosterman: right. Christopher Solomon: but still, you, you just also wanna make sure you follow your state's local laws. Matt Kosterman: Sure, sure, sure, sure. Um, but there was another Lyme disease. There was another, something I wanted to, so it sound, it sounds a, you know, it sounds like a very, uh, useful application for, uh, attention deficit condition. Christopher Solomon: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Matt Kosterman: Uh, anxiety, um, body pain. You brought up HIV. Um, just a whole monopoly of, of applications Christopher Solomon: Right, Matt Kosterman: and, and, and are there, are there others? Matt Kosterman: Do you have a community of other people who are serving, uh, uh, the medicine. Christopher Solomon: Um, not really. I'm kind of one of the only people that I know that's doing it. There's, there's someone else up in, um, I believe they're in Oregon, um, Mira Funk um. I also see Matt Kosterman: Okay. I've, Christopher Solomon: Um, and then there was someone, uh, named Peter Addie. He did some research on Salvia, but he hasn't really been serving it to people. so there's, you know, there's not too many salvia practitioners. I mean, again, I, I'm, I'm the only one that I know of that's doing it in this low controlled, smoked multiple doses with somatic therapy and so. And it's, um, it, it's a, it's a unique medicine to work with for guides as well. And so, um, I did one training where I did some training with some guides and, Matt Kosterman: Okay. Christopher Solomon: so, but I, I wanna start doing more of that, but yeah, I'm kind Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Christopher Solomon: the, the lone one out here banging my drum with, uh, with all the benefits of salvia. Christopher Solomon: And then when I introduce it to people, they're like, wow, why is no one else? Like, why, why are people Matt Kosterman: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Christopher Solomon: engaging with this plant? Matt Kosterman: for sure. Yeah, I think it's just, uh, awareness, which I hope that this will, this episode will help build that, um, further. Um, and so you said it's, uh, um, salvia healings plural.com Christopher Solomon: Yeah, Matt Kosterman: is a way to get ahold of you and, and, um. Christopher Solomon: the, um, somatic Salvia Network. It's a little online community that I set up. Um, and that's Matt Kosterman: Okay. Christopher Solomon: salvia network.com. And we have like biweekly integration sessions and, uh, chat Matt Kosterman: Oh, nice, nice. Christopher Solomon: share their salvia experiences and connect with other salvia notes. Um, Matt Kosterman: Okay. Christopher Solomon: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Christopher Solomon: Mm mm. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Talk about salvia land and Yeah. All the. Christopher Solomon: Or be like, Hey, like I'm running into this, you know, experience. Well how do I integrate it or what do I do with it? Or, it's just helpful to Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Lovely. Christopher Solomon: have gone through. Matt Kosterman: Yeah, for sure, for sure. Um, well, beautiful. Amazing. Chris, thanks so much for, uh, taking the time outta your day for this. Christopher Solomon: What a problem. Yeah, it's been really great to talk to you. Matt Kosterman: I appreciate it very much and uh, we'll get this, we'll get this up there and so everybody, you know how to reach him and, um, cheers. Best, uh, best wishes. Hope to maybe connect with the out, uh, out in that beautiful part of the world one day. Christopher Solomon: I look forward to it. Thank you so much, Matt. Matt Kosterman: Alright, Chris, cheers. Christopher Solomon: Bye. Matt Kosterman: Cool it.