Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Dan Pinn about his choice of Paradise Towers (2/4)

Transcript

Talks to Dan Pinn about his choice of Paradise Towers (2/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:23
None. Hamster with.
0:34
A blunt penknife for doing. Quicker, quicker, quicker.
0:39
Quicker Hello and Build High for Happiness because we're here for
0:44
the Ice Heart Hamster and a Blunt Penknife podcast.
0:50
My name is Dan, and I'm here with our wonderful host, Joe.
0:55
Hello. I didn't realise you've got all
0:57
those bits. How wonderful.
0:59
Nice. Hot.
1:00
Is that what you think this podcast is?
1:01
I thought. It's one of my favourites.
1:04
Yeah, we're not. You're the elster, then?
1:06
No, no, no, no. I I mean, I I struggle to keep
1:08
up with it because you produce so much.
1:10
That no one can listen to all my that is a life's work.
1:16
You are. I mean, I think it's one.
1:17
Or two that do. But they're only let.
1:19
Out the asylum on a Sunday. OK.
1:22
OK, fair enough. Fair enough.
1:23
But yeah. Come on, this is all yours.
1:26
You can introduce what we're doing and all that.
1:28
I'll put my feet up. Oh, yes.
1:30
Right. OK.
1:32
Yeah. Forgive me, listeners, I'm I'm
1:34
new to all of this. So yes, so we're discussing
1:38
Episode 2 of Paradise Towers, if you hadn't have guessed from the
1:42
intro. Yeah, so here we go.
1:46
Well, I mean, shall we? We had a long preamble in
1:49
episode one. Should we just jump straight
1:51
into two? Yeah, let's do it.
1:53
And see and see. How did we end the episode?
1:55
I can't even remember. We we did phrases question
2:01
about. Oh no, I meant the actual
2:02
episode. Oh Oh yeah, Chief caretaker,
2:07
isn't it? Yes, yeah, because he he he want
2:11
he feels that the Doctor reckons the Doctor is the the chief, not
2:16
the chief architect, the great architect, and wants to wants to
2:20
kill him. What should we do with him now
2:23
then, Chief? Yeah.
2:26
It's like. This is so quotable this story.
2:28
I'm so sorry. OK, well, shall I count as in
2:31
then, You introed? OK, yeah, let's do it.
2:34
In 3/2, one off we go. Well, I suppose this is an
2:39
appropriate time to talk about Richard Briers and his eccentric
2:44
turn as the chief caretaker. Yeah, I mean, I until he becomes
2:52
possessed, I think it's a really good performance.
2:56
But I may be the no. No, come on, tell me why.
3:00
Yeah, no, because you know it. It's he's a guy that we've kind
3:06
of worked with people like this haven't we you know throughout
3:09
our careers that are jobs worths that, oh.
3:13
Currently. Oh yeah they you know they they
3:17
adhere to the to the rule book all else, you know the the
3:21
everything else you know that that goes along with their job
3:24
can go to the wayside. But as long as they stick to
3:27
that, to that rule book and and I kind of I kind of like the way
3:33
that he does that because I think around about this time he
3:37
was in a a sitcom called Ever Degrees in Circles.
3:41
I don't know. Oh.
3:41
Yeah, of course, yeah. Where he was like he was like
3:45
the chairperson of this residents association or
3:48
something wasn't it And and he was very much like that in in
3:52
and and so I can see why they would go.
3:55
This is a brilliant bit of casting We've got Richard
3:58
Breyers in. If he can lift that character
4:01
from Never Decrease some circles and kind of put it here as the
4:04
chief caretaker, then then you know that's great.
4:08
It's his decision what to do when he becomes possessed that I
4:14
have issue with. I'm going to fight you on that
4:18
when it comes, and I know no one likes that version of the
4:24
character, but I'll save it till we get there because I think
4:27
there's something more interesting going on there than
4:30
other people. Even JNT was dragged Briers to
4:34
his office with Clyde Merrison and was like you are taking the
4:38
piss like he really laid into him.
4:42
Yeah, because I I mean there are bits of it that I, I I get
4:47
because fundamentally he he is a a reanimated corpse at that
4:51
point. That's been, you know, so how?
4:54
Do you play? That the the the kind of like,
4:58
you know like he's very stiff and in his movements and stuff.
5:02
I think that's fabulous. But I yeah, there's just just
5:08
something that just it kind of takes you out the story a little
5:12
bit. It's it's it's embarrassing as
5:15
well, like it's a point where you.
5:18
Wouldn't want to be watching with anyone else, you know.
5:21
No, no, Yeah, you're definitely happy with the first three
5:24
episodes. I think it's sort of, you know,
5:26
like if this is the panto season, you know that would be
5:29
the panto that you go to that you're too embarrassed to watch.
5:34
Yeah, you go by yourself. Oh God, this bit here I'm a.
5:39
Finely tuned fighting machine. Damn.
5:42
Oh, aren't we all looking at him?
5:46
I think we are. Oh.
5:48
Bless him. I do like their relationship
5:51
though, where she is sort of chiding and deriding him for
5:55
destroying things all the time and him wanting to stick with
5:58
her because he's too afraid. Her then finding out why he's
6:03
there, his redemption story and her sort of building a
6:07
friendship with her. I like all of that.
6:10
Yes. No, I I think it's it's a it's a
6:12
great little double act for this, for this story and and
6:17
obviously like like you say, there's a lovely redemption arc
6:20
with him because he was obviously this coward that ran
6:23
away from from going to war. I'm thinking we was honest.
6:29
Oh, we all would it. Would be ours.
6:30
Yeah, I think. I think like.
6:32
You know, we wouldn't be those brave.
6:35
Soldiers going. No, no.
6:37
Way I'll be the one hiding in the shadows going.
6:39
Are they gone yet? OK.
6:42
Yeah. Oh boy.
6:43
Dan, what do you think about this scene where he uses the
6:46
rule book to bamboozle the caretakers?
6:52
It's brilliant. It's fantastic.
6:54
It's one of those things where you go that's Mccoy's doctor,
6:57
isn't it, like. Crystallising, isn't it?
7:00
Yeah, because you know, like like you've got that in
7:05
happiness portrayal where he talks those two snipers out of
7:10
killing and and even in remembrance he talks the Supreme
7:14
Dalek to death, doesn't he? And and I think that that's
7:18
Mccoy's Doctor he's he's a I mean I know he's he's like this.
7:23
You know we kind of get this impression of him towards the
7:26
end of being this this galactic chess player where he's moving
7:29
the pieces into position. But he's one that uses his mind
7:35
rather than his than his fists. He's he's a doctor of of of
7:40
intelligence and reasoning rather than one that that's sort
7:44
of one of violence and action, I suppose.
7:48
Are you suggesting that if he talks his villains to death, he
7:52
is in fact the Captain Kirk of the Doctor Who universe?
7:58
Oh. Kirk used to do that all the
7:59
time with the robots and things, didn't he?
8:02
But he also could. He wasn't afraid of the, you
8:06
know, getting into a. Scuffle, was he?
8:07
There's another pecs for you. He thought he was a muscle man,
8:10
but he had a bit of a thumb. Is that episode where he's
8:13
walking around with his top off? Oh my.
8:15
God. Suck it in a bit, Shatner.
8:20
Yeah. Oh shut great about this scene
8:23
is the doctors figured out how to use their sort of rule bound
8:30
ways against them. So he sort of figured out these
8:34
people now. And yeah, I just think it's
8:38
really, really clever and and it's funny.
8:41
Yeah, because because I think, like, what makes it funny is, is
8:45
is the deputy caretaker because he's he, he thinks, you know,
8:52
we've got him where we want him, you know, But the Doctor just
8:56
plays in. It's the way he goes.
9:00
But if we do that and the quiet goes I.
9:03
Know, I know, but it is in here. He's in the rules.
9:05
Yeah. That, that, that, that bit later
9:08
on where he then goes, he just gives the prisoner long enough
9:12
and he goes, oh, long enough to do what?
9:14
And he goes, oh long enough just to, you know, take your card and
9:17
and unlock the door. And he goes, hey, what?
9:21
There he goes. Roles are supposed to make
9:24
sense. It's really funny.
9:29
Do you know? Did you watch the Behind the
9:30
Sofa on the Blu-ray of this one? I don't think I have.
9:34
I've I've got, I've got it on the shelf.
9:36
I'm really terrible. I buy it and then don't watch.
9:38
It as well. I mean, who has the time to
9:40
watch all 500 hours of special features that you get?
9:44
But it's of the four stories this season, it's like, you
9:47
know, you've got Davison in there.
9:49
Janet Fielding They can be hypercritical of some.
9:51
Stuff. They fucking loved all of this.
9:56
They loved all these amazing character actors in these quirky
10:00
roles just clearly having a ball.
10:02
And you know, I I Weirdly enough, sometimes when you watch
10:06
reaction videos and things like this, you get endorsement when
10:09
they like something you like. And when heated over sort of,
10:12
Janet Fielding are enjoying something that's the highest.
10:15
Endorsement you could. Possibly give it, but they
10:18
adored this scene. Yeah, I I mean, you know, I I
10:23
know like again, JNT is is very much a a Marmite kind of persona
10:32
of Doctor Who, isn't it? Yeah, but Doctor Who just wasn't
10:36
popular at this point. I mean you know this this was
10:38
going out against Coronation Street wasn't it, mid midweek,
10:42
but I don't know he he managed to get such good actors in, you
10:48
know, to to give the show a bit of gravitas that it wouldn't
10:53
have had otherwise All throughout is all throughout the
10:56
80s really. And then you know people often
11:00
then point the finger at him about stunt casting and all this
11:03
sort of thing. But, but it was necessary.
11:05
But, but I think a lot of those actors he got in that were stunt
11:09
casting. Oh, that's a great, that's a
11:12
great image, isn't it? With that window behind
11:15
Sylvester and he's just that silly.
11:17
Yeah, Amazing. Yeah.
11:20
I want to talk about Nick Mallet, but let's.
11:22
We'll get there. We'll get there.
11:23
Yeah, but but I think, I think like with the like, like I say,
11:28
there's there's not many of those those actors that were
11:31
cast because of their status that don't give a fantastic
11:35
performance. It's but but it's something
11:38
that's used to kind of smash JNT over the head with.
11:41
Let's dispel one of those myths again then, because I don't
11:45
think he puts a foot wrong with casting.
11:47
I I I think even the ones where it's left field like Belle Reed,
11:51
the story is more enjoyable for that performance.
11:55
I think Trial of a Time Lord is basically lifted high by it's
11:59
incredible guest cast and that's all JNT.
12:03
Yeah, yeah, I think. He went to a party, didn't he?
12:05
And got Bellingham, Jason, Tony Selby all at the same party.
12:10
Yeah. Oh yeah.
12:15
No, absolutely brilliant. We'll come in, then we'll talk
12:18
about Clive Mirrorson then, and why you think he's so fabulous
12:21
in this? I I I he's he's brilliant from
12:28
that you know we we've talked about you know that these guys
12:33
kind of live by this rule book that they'll live by it they'll
12:35
die by it and and that's the beyond end all but he's he's
12:40
just I I just think that he's played quite straight but
12:49
because of that he he's very very funny and I just think it's
12:57
a fantastic performance from from him and and for me you know
13:04
he he he he's one of one of the best things about it.
13:08
I just think it's it's you know where is this question marks
13:11
over Richard Breyers and some of his choices.
13:14
I I don't think I've got any of that with with Clive Merrison.
13:17
I think he plays that downtrodden subordinate really,
13:22
really well. It's a good double act, isn't
13:24
it? It is.
13:26
And and because that devotion that he's got to the chief, you
13:30
know, because he's like, hey, chiefy and all this sort of
13:32
stuff, you know, it's just, I just love it there's.
13:36
One line. He's got that I memorize.
13:38
You know, I can't believe it, but it's like, what is it?
13:41
Report from floor 109, Chief. Two of the ulsters have gone
13:45
down the standard H12 waste disposal unit.
13:50
I mean, he just says his lives in the most insane ways.
13:54
It's so. Funny.
13:56
And they've got that. They've got that.
13:58
Both him and Bryce have got that kind of, yes, this kind of way
14:02
that you expect trainspotters and and people in that kind of
14:06
position to kind of talk like. But I think that's one of the
14:09
reasons we go back to what we said at the start of the
14:11
Coventry why people don't like this because it looks like
14:14
they're taking the piss. I don't think they are.
14:17
No, no, no, definitely. Not but it can.
14:19
Kind of. It's like tryst in Nightmare of
14:22
Eden again, You know, it's putting on a weird accent.
14:29
Yeah, again. Like, jump forward to 26, You
14:32
just don't have none of that anymore.
14:34
No, they've they've dialled down the fun, haven't they?
14:38
Definitely. But don't I just spot Hyacinth
14:44
Bouquet's sister into the fray. Yeah, Onslay's wife.
14:49
Judy Cornwall Oh my God, don't you love it when she's really
14:52
horny in the bed? Oh, Onslow she.
14:56
And he's just, he's just not bothered, is it?
14:59
She's the she's the nice Resi isn't she the?
15:03
Yeah, Maddie. Maddie, isn't it?
15:05
What is it? She says.
15:06
Some have been worse than others.
15:08
So is the idea. Then that she hasn't been eating
15:11
people. Yeah, I get.
15:16
Yeah. I assume that's that's what
15:18
they're trying to imply that they're they're obviously
15:20
there's a there's a group of the resi's that have resorted to to
15:23
being cannibals and and therefore eating kangs.
15:26
As as you know, Resy's are full of lies and full of kangs.
15:35
Full of kangs. I couldn't eat another thing.
15:37
Sorry. I've got a yoga for dessert now.
15:40
I'll pass. Thank you.
15:42
Oh, that's such a it is such a grim idea.
15:46
I mean, I thought we'd cannibals were out from season 22, you
15:50
know? But yeah, yeah.
15:53
It's dark, isn't it it? It it is.
15:56
I mean like we obviously we haven't got to it, but the the
15:59
the the second time that Mel encounters them and it's it's
16:02
much more darker shall we say, but it's like, you know the
16:07
brandishing knives and hosting forks as weapons and stuff.
16:11
It's just like, whoa, but. They still get lines like see if
16:15
you could spot the basil, you know.
16:17
Like. It's it's it's so huge.
16:20
Story It's that dark black man. And I and again, I'm going to
16:25
say I do think that's an issue people have with this is that so
16:28
much of this is played for laughs.
16:30
And I think other people can see a version of this that is it
16:33
like that is like high rise, you know the the Ballard's story,
16:38
which is completely serious. I don't know.
16:42
Would that be Doctor Who though? No, no, I don't think it is
16:46
certainly not 1980s to do. I mean, even something like
16:50
Ghost Lie is full of gags. The yeah, I mean that's the
16:55
thing, you know, like the the cream of Scotland Yard because
16:58
he's just been turned into a soup, you know, and it's,
17:00
there's so many subtle gags, I think, I think that.
17:05
Our baby. That's it.
17:06
Yeah. I I think that that's the thing
17:08
they they haven't necessarily dialed down the fun on the
17:12
humour. They they've made it more subtle
17:14
and you know. Maybe a bit more sophisticated?
17:18
Yeah, yeah, More cerebral, isn't it, you know.
17:20
To less obvious, yeah. Yeah.
17:23
Like was it I wanted. To see how it worked, so I
17:26
dismantled it. With a mate arm.
17:29
What the? Hell.
17:32
Oh dear. But this is witty though, I
17:35
think. Yes, yeah, definitely.
17:38
And what's it? Sorry.
17:42
No, no, no. You go.
17:43
First, what's great about Mccauley's doctrine this is he's
17:46
meeting all the individual elements so and he's putting
17:51
together the mystery as he goes, as he's running away from
17:54
cleaners and falling down holes and all this stuff.
17:57
And he's reading the Wall sprawl and he's taken from that plot
18:01
elements. So come the end of Episode 3,
18:03
he's put the whole jigsaw together and he knows he's got
18:07
to assemble all those factions on Paradise Towers and that's
18:12
how they'll defeat Crackdown. It's a really neat script.
18:15
Yeah because I I hope I'm not getting confused with with the
18:19
happiness patrol. But I know in the happiness
18:21
patrol he he sort of says or he's heard things about this
18:24
place but doesn't he isn't that his reason why he doesn't
18:27
doesn't want to leave in the beginning because like Mel goes
18:30
oh this place looks horrible is there anywhere else with and and
18:33
you know he he's you know he's wanting to stay because he he's
18:37
heard. Now that that is a line from the
18:40
happiness between, but you, like, clearly senses something's
18:44
up because you've just seen that advert for Paradise Towers,
18:48
which is Gleaming Towers. There's a right that needs.
18:51
There's a wrong that needs writing, isn't it?
18:52
Yeah, yeah. So Colin Baker's the one who who
18:55
wrongs rights. Oh.
18:57
No, Hang On did. I get round that right, the
19:01
right. Way I think I did.
19:04
Oh, I love this bit with the the vending machine, their their
19:08
little faces when they taste the sugary drink for the first time.
19:12
I do believe you know you could buy Fizz Aid at one point on
19:15
eBay. Oh really?
19:16
I think someone have just made a can and just let a cheaty label
19:19
and put it. On Oh God.
19:24
See. Now look, we've got brides.
19:25
In a minute going Oh, my beauty, my lovely, What's the matter,
19:29
you know? I love it because I love a bit
19:34
of camp, you know, This is custom built for me.
19:38
But but also the fact that it's undercut by he fears this he
19:44
he's he's he you know he sees it as his pet but he he he there's
19:49
a there's a fear that undercuts everything that he's he his
19:52
performance in this is is yeah why have.
19:56
You been eating people. I've not been.
19:57
Sending you to eat, so he says to me, he's.
20:00
Like he's stammering some of the lines, isn't he?
20:02
You know as well, And it's. He he's a performer.
20:05
So like, I think people just think he's phoning it in.
20:07
I don't think so. I think it's it's deliberate
20:09
what he's doing. Yeah I I I mean that's the thing
20:11
the the the the the only part I have issue is is is when he's,
20:15
when he's played is the possessed sort of zombie thing
20:20
this this for me I I don't understand why people have got a
20:23
problem with this because because it feels you know like I
20:26
say it feels like he's lifted that character from ever
20:30
decreasing circles. He has dialled it up a little
20:33
bit, you know, but but then this is a, this is, you know, a
20:37
family fantasy show, not a sitcom, you know?
20:41
Do you think his casting was, oh, we've got Richard Breyers,
20:46
one of the most popular actors on British television, or do you
20:50
think his casting was? This works into how this is a
20:54
satire on the sort of stuff that he's normally in.
20:59
I I think at the time it probably was, yeah.
21:01
We've got Richard Breyers. You're right as well, yeah.
21:05
But I I think, you know, looking looking back at, you know,
21:08
something that was, you know, 30 odd years ago, you can kind of
21:12
see there may have been like, yeah, he's perfect for this,
21:18
this part. Sort of deconstructing the
21:21
domestic fantasy. So, oh God, where did that come
21:24
from? Jesus.
21:25
I'm trying to be Very wow. Where's the evening as well?
21:29
Going on too much of coffee, You know who's.
21:33
There, in those kinds. I don't know if she's a red or a
21:35
blue. It's the woman who plays the
21:36
controller from Bad Wolf and partner the ways.
21:39
No way. You know that beautiful Asian
21:43
lady? Yeah, yeah, the one who goes,
21:45
oh, shut up and she's there with her gunman, you know, she's one
21:49
of these. And she also plays someone put
21:51
it in the comments Elaine, the Pain from BBCCBBC show.
21:55
So she got her own show later on as well.
21:58
But this was JNT cherry picking the hot young talent that was
22:02
coming out of drama school at the time.
22:04
No, I don't. Mean that in a roof way.
22:06
I mean in terms of sort of performance, you know, he, he, I
22:09
think he saw plays and things. I thought, we'll give that
22:11
person a chance, yeah. But, but I think that was, you
22:16
know, it feels like certainly with this, this era of Doctor
22:20
Who that that, you know, they they were giving young actors a
22:24
chance, you know, their first go at TV, but they were also with
22:29
the writers as well. You know, especially when you've
22:31
got like the previous era, you've got the script editor
22:35
going. It was hard to find people that
22:38
could write for Doctor Who and then Cartmel comes in and basic
22:44
other than other than Pip and Jane, everyone's new to Doctor
22:47
Who that writes a story for this this era.
22:50
And you know, so it's kind of giving these young, hungry
22:56
creative minds a a a chance to to have a go at their trade.
23:00
You can tell they were angry, weren't they?
23:02
Because they produced these amazingly creative scripts.
23:06
Although Dan, I do have to say one thing to you.
23:09
You have broken so many rules from this podcast, it will take
23:12
me several weeks to enumerate them.
23:15
Wait outside, please, would you? OK.
23:18
Sorry, I'm sorry. Oh, now here we go.
23:21
Back to Tab again, Tilda. Oh, this stuff is gold.
23:25
But like, how entertaining is this?
23:28
Oh, it's very. Like, effortlessly entertaining
23:30
to watch. I mean that's what that's what,
23:34
you know, like we were saying at the beginning when you were
23:35
asking me which, which season is this the worst one.
23:39
But I would I I prefer stories in 25.
23:44
But this here, I think from from episode one of Time and the
23:49
Rowoney right to the end of of Dragon Fire.
23:52
It's so easy to watch it it it's just, you know, whereas there
23:57
are some Doctor Who's that you that are are lauded as being
24:02
these amazing bits of TV and I can see that and they are
24:05
brilliant, but I don't watch them very.
24:07
Often. Are you talking about heaven
24:09
sent by any chance? I am talking about that one.
24:12
I'm also talking about midnight and turn left and things like
24:17
that. Oh, I love that pair.
24:18
But you know, at the end of a long day, I wouldn't stick them
24:20
on, no. No, I'd.
24:21
Much rather put on time. With the Ronnie or dealt with
24:23
the Bannerman. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
24:25
That's what you know, this this is kind of that.
24:28
It's got that joyful escapism about it, Whereas those are the
24:31
two. Oh, that.
24:33
Is the perfect discreet, joyful escapism.
24:37
Yeah, Tagline for the story. But it really is it.
24:41
It it's going off somewhere else and having an adventure full of
24:46
excitement, full of laughs, you know, full of great acting.
24:50
You lose yourself for four episodes.
24:52
You're right. They're all, I tend not to watch
24:56
very serious Doctor Who stories. Like recently I absolutely
25:00
crushed the Curse of Fenerick in Strictly Come Hamster, which has
25:04
been released now. So I can say that.
25:07
And you know, everyone thinks, probably thinks I'm completely
25:09
mad, but it's so serious, like you've got to be in a mood,
25:14
right? I'm always in the mood for this.
25:16
I'm occasionally in the mood for the Curse of Fenrik.
25:19
Yeah, I I really love the Curse of Fenrik.
25:26
But yeah, I don't tend to watch it too often, but I think that
25:31
was because when I got the VHS cassette of it, I played the
25:35
bugger to death. I really did.
25:36
I It was like, oh. You said you can, Overwatch.
25:39
Things. Yeah.
25:40
And and now now because I know what's, but I mean the great
25:44
thing is, is that with because of Henry we've had so many
25:47
different versions of it. It's almost like the five
25:49
doctors and charter, isn't it, that the the directors cut
25:53
special editions, the movie version and all this sort of
25:55
stuff. But but yeah, that that VHS
25:59
tape, I I I I'm surprised I didn't wear it out because it
26:03
was on at least once a week because I just it for me as a
26:07
teenager that was brilliant. We've just talked over the
26:12
really sinister. What do you think about a
26:15
cliffhanger featuring Bonnie Langford having a knitted shawl
26:19
thrown over her head and being menaced by two cannibalistic old
26:22
ladies? I mean, on paper it sounds nuts,
26:28
doesn't it? What you mean on paper?
26:31
On the screen? It's nuts.
26:33
But it's it's got a the yeah there's a there's a real
26:40
darkness to it and and I think it you know again it's like
26:44
turning something that that you would find in everyday life.
26:50
These these doddery old ladies with their their knit in their
26:53
crochet and and then turning that on their head and having
26:58
them using their their crochets and net to trap someone and then
27:02
threaten them with one of their kitchen utensils.
27:05
He's he's just brilliant. You know, I I, yeah, I mean.
27:10
Played completely straight as well.
27:13
That's the only way you can do it, to sell it, I think.
27:17
For sure. I mean, they're having a bit of
27:18
fun. In the next episode.
27:20
It is great as they're. Flittering about the kitchen,
27:23
sorting the part, waiting for. Bonnie Langford to go in here.
27:26
Or I don't know. What part are they going to
27:28
cook? I'll leave that to your
27:30
imagination. But at the end of this, they
27:33
just look vicious, don't they? Yeah, it's that is it like a it
27:37
is what the toasting for toast. You think the crumpets earlier
27:41
on? Bloody could stab her in the
27:43
car. Or something, Because it's
27:45
almost like a mini Trident, isn't it?
27:47
And it's it's weird because it is going back towards the sort
27:51
of things that the show was kind of put on hiatus for and that
27:55
sharp instruments being wielded and cannibalism, you know, and
28:00
all those things in 22. But the emphasis, I feel, is
28:03
really different. Yeah, but you know, it's I think
28:10
when you kind of look back on on that story of of the
28:15
cancellation, the hiatus and then this, this final period of
28:21
of Classic Who, it felt like the BBC were looking for anything
28:28
that they could cancel Doctor Who for.
28:30
So they went for the the violence, they went for the the,
28:35
you know, the the Mary Whitehouse approach, I suppose.
28:39
And then you know, they they they said, oh, you know you've
28:41
got the only sort of constructive criticism that they
28:49
could throw at it was that basically when it came back
28:51
you've got to make it more fun, more, you know, family.
28:57
And then at this point, I mean I'm sure we've all all read the
29:02
script up to by Andrew Cartmell but but basically the BBC
29:05
weren't even watching the, you know, the first, the rough
29:10
copies of it. So basically I I don't really
29:13
think that they were kind of looking you know that anyone was
29:16
watching that there were knives and cannibals and things like
29:19
that in. This well, interestingly there's
29:20
a scene later, isn't there? Where a knife is thrown at Peck
29:23
'cause I think it's coming up in Part 3 which was heavily edited
29:28
from where where it originally was, but that was JNT saying too
29:32
much. Yeah, yeah.
29:34
Like I'm not stupid. Let's not give them a reason to
29:36
counsellors. Yeah, they've done that already.
29:39
Let's yeah. Well, I'm going to head back to
29:42
Twitter now if I can Scroll down the length of my page to find
29:45
the comments because I've fortunately.
29:47
I've done, but I've also done. A lot of retweeting today, yes.
29:50
Well, so please talk amongst yourself.
29:54
Oh, no way I found. It Hang on.
29:55
OK, so I'm going to go for a couple this time because we've
29:57
got a few phrase? The Gregory asked.
29:59
Quarks or Crotons? Oh, quarks, definitely.
30:05
It's a foregone conclusion, isn't it?
30:07
Yeah. Could you do please an
30:08
impression of the quarks? I don't think I could.
30:14
I haven't watched that one for a long time.
30:17
Destroyed, Shall we? Destroyed.
30:19
I don't know if I can reach. That high or kicky in the nuts
30:24
All of Time and Space podcasts are very bizarrely Which is
30:29
best, Exeter or Plymouth? What the hell does that mean?
30:33
Well, we're both Devon boys, don't mean me and Mark.
30:37
So I would go Exeter and and I and I know Mark would be pleased
30:41
about that because that's where he lives.
30:43
Is that what a a critique on the towns?
30:46
There there's a rivalry between Plymouth and Exeter.
30:50
There's a there's a big rivalry, I mean.
30:52
Is it like the red kangs and the blue kangs?
30:54
It's definitely like the red kangs and the blue kangs, except
30:57
it's red and white and green. Oh really?
31:01
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
31:03
So they have when there have been.
31:08
I mean, I don't want to bore you with football, but when?
31:11
Oh, is it football? That is part.
31:14
Straight blokes I might have known.
31:16
Yeah, so when when Plymouth Argyle play Exeter City that it
31:20
can get quite, quite tasty afterwards they've.
31:23
Been Really. Come on, I'm listening.
31:24
Now what? You've been tasty.
31:26
Yeah, there's been been a a quite a few scuffles and fights
31:30
break out between rival fans. Oh, sorry, your definition of
31:34
tasty and mine are two very. Just for a second there this
31:41
podcast. Was.
31:43
Vaguely heterosexual and then I'll spoil it.
31:45
I'm so sorry. Oh, OK, it was.
31:47
It was about football teams. I well, it it it is a it's not
31:51
just, it's beyond football but it's just because they're the
31:54
two biggest bits of of Devon and.
31:59
That's the straightest thing I've ever It's beyond football.
32:06
What? OK, I'm going to give you
32:07
another. Question here then this is
32:09
actually about the story. OK, phrases in again he's he's
32:13
phrased on. For me it's.
32:14
On fire, yeah. Good Paradise Towers have been
32:16
given one of its episodes today or In The Bannerman to make both
32:20
stories better based. I are going to draw a line in
32:28
the sand here and say no, because purely from the fact I
32:34
really, I mean I do love. Don't get me wrong, I love, I
32:37
love Paradise Towers as as I've been talking about it.
32:41
But Delta and the Bannerman is almost perfect and I wouldn't
32:46
want to spoil. I wouldn't.
32:47
And part of the perfection of it is that kind of pace of it.
32:52
So I wouldn't want to add another episode in it to kind of
32:54
slow it down. I just love that because even
32:57
like you've got is it the, the, the piece of music that he plays
33:04
quite a lot throughout Kef is is a piece of classical music,
33:07
isn't it like, is it like the dance or something?
33:10
Like that. You're not about.
33:15
That's the one and and I think that suits it suits the pace of
33:19
the story as well you know sort of thing.
33:21
So I I I wouldn't I wouldn't touch I wouldn't touch Delta and
33:27
the bannermen. The question is, would A1 less
33:31
episode help Paradise Towers? I don't think so.
33:34
I think this is perfectly structured, I think.
33:38
I feel like the the the various elements are introduced for
33:42
episode one and two. They're put together in episode
33:45
3, which then presents a solution in episode 4.
33:48
It's almost a pitch perfect four part Doctor Who story.
33:53
Which which is unusual for cartmel because normally they're
33:59
either over running or under running, aren't they?
34:01
Well, normally over running, but you know you've almost got like
34:04
for latest stories, you've almost got a whole new episode
34:07
to add to. It haven't you?
34:08
Well, Cursive Ferry. There was enough material for
34:10
Five, wasn't it? And one of my criticisms about
34:12
that, because obviously we're talking about the transmitted
34:13
story, is that it just makes no fucking sense when you watch the
34:18
original version with character scenes and plot points actually
34:21
edited out of the story. Yeah.
34:24
Well, Daniel Rosley has a a suggestion for a new television
34:28
show for the two of us to watch. He's calling it The Fresh Prince
34:32
of Paradise Towers pitch for an alternative universe, Brand new
34:36
weekly Doctor Who sitcom starring the 7th Doctor, Melanie
34:39
Bush and the chief caretaker, complete with an opening song.
34:43
Changed my mind, he says. Oh, I'm probably the last person
34:50
to ask because I don't like The Fresh Prince of Bel Air.
34:55
Neither do I. It's not.
34:57
It's not so. I mean my the rest of my family
35:01
in this flat, if you would ask them, they would love that
35:03
they'd be all over that because they they love old Will Smith
35:06
and they love the The Fresh Prince.
35:09
But for me it's not something that kind of I I was aware of
35:13
it, but I never watched it because it just just.
35:16
Know it. I heard that theme tune and I
35:18
was like, no, I'm out. Yeah, yeah, I'm out.
35:21
Although on that no. Daniel has provided us with the
35:24
first line of The Fresh Prince of Paradise Towers.
35:28
I shan't wrap it though, because, you know, I don't want
35:31
to be as embarrassing as the Ringmaster in great Show in the
35:33
Galaxy. Or even worse, Sophie Aldridge.
35:36
Reading of it in the target version of.
35:39
Great show. Oh, she does it?
35:41
She tries, wrapping it at the start of the audio target.
35:45
It's the oh, I've sent it to you.
35:47
It's awful. Anyway, he says.
35:49
In Emsworlds house, We're born and raised in the basement where
35:53
I spend most of my days. That's how it started.
35:56
OK. OK.
36:00
One last question then, because we've got a few to get through.
36:02
How do you think this story would be different if Colin had
36:05
been kept on for season 24? Yeah, wow.
36:17
Would Colin work in this? It'd be a very different story,
36:21
wouldn't it, if it if it was, you know, because like, I think
36:25
he works really well in time in the Rani.
36:28
But like we say, it's it's very much a Colin Baker script that's
36:32
kind of like we've got nothing else the covers bare, so we just
36:36
make this and put Silve in it. Of an assault of colour in time
36:41
in the Rani. I figured if Colin was in that
36:44
it's the the only story where the actual story around him is
36:47
more colourful than that bloody coat.
36:49
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because because, I mean, like we
36:56
say, Colin was very much a kind of up and at him kind of kind of
37:07
character, wasn't he? He was, he was straight in
37:09
there. He was very confrontational.
37:12
So I think you would kind of lose like, like like what we
37:15
were saying with that lovely little piece where where
37:18
Sylvester's kind of doctor has worked out that he can use the
37:23
rule book to his advantage and against these guys that live by
37:26
it. And I don't know whether that
37:29
doesn't feel like Colin's Doctor.
37:30
Does it? No, we're just open the scene
37:32
with the two of them on the floor in a bloody hebow.
37:34
What happened? The fella beat the shit.
37:37
Out of us around, yeah. Although it's kind of full of
37:42
weird grotesques like Doctors and Revelation of the Daleks,
37:47
and he does do well with we're sort of over the top theatrical
37:51
characters. Yeah.
37:54
Maybe. Maybe.
37:58
I mean, he's not in it, so we ain't got to worry.
38:01
But, like as an intellectual exercise, it's quite
38:04
interesting. No, I I mean yeah, I mean I
38:09
think season 24 because it is that transition we're going from
38:12
Colin to to Sylvester and and you know Cartmell's still trying
38:20
to find his voice and and kind of direct it you know in in the
38:24
direction that he wants it to go.
38:27
But yeah I mean I think it yeah you could have Colin Bay if if
38:33
if they kind of you know things have worked out differently and
38:36
and they said OK Colin we'll give you one more season then
38:38
you regenerate at the end which. Is what he asked for, yeah.
38:42
I think if they've given him that, I, I, yeah, I I can see
38:46
him in season 24 because it isn't it isn't quite the McCoy
38:51
era yet. It isn't quite the you know,
38:54
Carmel's vision. He he he's he's still feeling
38:58
his way into it. And I I think he you don't
39:00
properly get that until remembrance, I don't think.
39:04
I think his Colin can be so charming like you.
39:07
Listen to his Big finish performances.
39:09
He can be gentler than McCoy when he wants to be.
39:12
Yeah, I mean, I think I I think he would get on well with the
39:17
Kangs. I think.
39:19
I think he would. I don't know.
39:22
I don't know if he would have a very good relationship with Peck
39:26
slow. I think he would find him
39:28
straighting and. Bit like Herbert in time, Lash.
39:31
Yeah, yes, yeah. You know, he'd be very short
39:34
with him and and whereas whereas Mccoy's quite understanding and
39:37
kind of treats him quite you know, gently whereas whereas I
39:40
think like Colin would be, you know, he'd be a bit more.
39:45
Although. I'd love to see that.
39:47
Scene in Delwood the battle Man. You know where McCoy confront
39:51
the Scav Rock. I'd love to see Colin come along
39:54
with that white flag, get up the stairs and just punch the lights
39:57
out of him and take the prisoners.
40:01
Away. It probably could work.
40:02
Yeah, 24 could probably work, yeah, yeah, one of those.
40:05
What if? Because, you know, that was a
40:08
decision taken out of their hands and if they had the the
40:11
choice J&T would have, we continue with Colin.
40:15
Yeah, yeah. Well, look, let's let's steer
40:19
away from speculation and go and watch Episode 3 of Paradise
40:24
Towers starring Sylvester McCoy, shall we?
40:26
OK.