Latest / The UNWavering Podcast / How Phones Shape Our Relationships | Professor Laura Watkins

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How Phones Shape Our Relationships | Professor Laura Watkins · The UNWavering Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey everybody, it's Monty.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_05: And Cassie.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: And welcome to another episode of the Unwavering Podcast.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: All right, Cassie.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just going to jump straight to the chase.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, I'm ready.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: I need you to pull out your mobile phone.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_05: It's out.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: I want to know the truth.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: How much time do you spend on your phone a day and how much have you been on?
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: How much screen time today?
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I'm going to be honest, it ranges, but usually, and I I Are you looking at your phone?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: How much time?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_05: Usually about four hours a day.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_05: Four Yep.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_05: Four hours a day.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_05: Not today though.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, where are you at today?
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_05: Today we're at one hour 28 minutes.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you're a little bit ahead of.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm at 121.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, sounds like nighttime is a a good time.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_05: That's when I'll really rack up the hours.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: We spend a lot of time on our phone.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_05: It's convicting.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's convicting.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um this is especially relevant today because our guest, uh Laura Watkins, who is a professor here at Northwestern, is passionate about the topic of mobile phone usage and their impact on relationships.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: So this should be a really good topic for us, Cassie.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_05: We're gonna come away learning some things.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do it.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_04: Let's go.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_04: Join as we highlight the people, the purpose, and the pulse of Northwestern.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_04: This is the Unwavering Podcast.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: When people are on their phones, we share and communicate on a less deep level.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: We're not going to share our deepest dreams.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: We're not going to tell the details of that story from the day, even if the person doesn't seem to be paying attention.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so because the conversations are less deep, our relationships become less deep.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: As people created in God's image for relationship and to communicate with one another and relate with one another when we are not doing that to the full extent of what God created us to, that's a problem that we need to resolve.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_05: Our guest today is Laura Watkins.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_05: She is the instructor of communication in the Department of Media Arts here at Northwestern.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_05: Laura received her BA and MA in communication from Bethel University.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_05: She began teaching at the collegiate level in 1999 and has enjoyed instructing a variety of topics ranging from speech to Spanish to spreadsheets.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_05: Laura's research interests include topics within interpersonal, nonverbal, and cross-cultural communication.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_05: Her most recent research examines technology's impact on human communication and relationships, specifically the effect of mobile phones' presence on mealtime conversation and subsequently relationship depth.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_05: And also the effects of listening to podcasts at a sped up rate on student focus in the college classroom, which seems very relevant today, as we are on a podcast.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_05: We're so excited to have you.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you for having me.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is gonna be so much, so much fun.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm already convicted looking at your intro.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I know, Cassie, you were gonna ask this question, but is it bad to listen to the podcast at a sped up rate, to be honest?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: Well, bad, not necessarily bad, but it does appear that it does have an impact on the way that we view people speaking at people speed, if that makes sense.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: And so with the study that I did, which was that that study was a little bit uh more of a minor study, not going outside of the campus, but just looking at a couple of hundred people and what they thought on this topic, it does appear that when you listen to podcast sped up, listening to a person at normal speed is more boring.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so that is the result of that.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_03: And also the ability to focus seems to be affected.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_03: So when you uh are in that situation where you are listening to someone at a normal speed, your brain wants more faster.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm guilty.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Guilty as well.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, for sure.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_05: Same with audiobooks.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_05: Got them at 1.5 or 2.0.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_03: So what happens when you listen to it just at 1x?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, it's terrible.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_05: It's like torture.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 4:23
  unknown: Yep.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Is that why you get bored when I'm talking to you in the office?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_05: Well, there's a lot of reasons for that.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Nevermind.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'll talk faster.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um but before we get further into this, uh, you in your in your bio, it says you've taught everything from speech to Spanish to spreadsheets.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Are you a fellow spreadsheet nerd like me?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: I love spreadsheets for budgeting.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: I do financial coaching just for fun with couples and things.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_03: And so I love a good spreadsheet.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_03: Budget, Christmas list, vacation plans.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have a favorite function?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know I I don't have a favorite function, but I do have to say, of all of the things that I have taught, teaching Excel at an intermediate level to help people make their days so much more efficient is one of my favorite things to do in the world in all of time.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: So all of the tips and tricks, that that's my sweet spot.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: Next episode.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: That is really nerdy and wonderful.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: And do we have a line outside my office door now or inside?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_05: Do you like to color code your spreadsheets?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: To a point.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: It needs to remain aesthetically pleasing.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: I am not the fluorescent yellow and bright red user that makes things stand out.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: It just hurts to look like softer colors.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 5:46
  unknown: Okay.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Cassie's trying to throw a little shade my way, I think, here with this.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_05: Well, just that one time you deleted all my colors.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_05: That meant something to me.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_05: That's okay.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_05: We've moved past it.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: We did.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Cassie also highlights her to-do list in reverse order.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So she has an empty, blank, boring black and white to-do list.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then when she finishes something, she highlights it.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: The color and reward.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't work for me.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: The color is a reward.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_05: Look at all the color I brought to the world today by finishing these tasks.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yep.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_05: It makes sense.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's good.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: All right, we digress.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_05: All right.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_05: So before we go into your research and just what you've learned from studying technology, we're so excited to hear.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_05: We want to learn about what the Lord has been teaching you lately.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: You know, one of my big focuses that I've been looking at is just really being in tune to, okay, what is the Lord doing around me and having my eyes open and just prayerfully asking him to show me where he is at work around me so that I can join him in that.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: So really making a shift from living to do what I want to do and instead living to look and see what he is doing and join him in that.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_03: Because ultimately, I want his plans to be what act out in the world.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I know I don't have very many answers at all.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: And so I want to be joining him in his his plans and his ways instead of running down roads that I think might be a good idea.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: So what does that what does that look like for you today?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I am a planner.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_03: I love having the lists and things, but doing so prayerfully.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: And um my favorite kind of prayers are okay, God prayers.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: So planning with the Lord alongside of me, kind of as just, okay, God, what do you have for me today?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: What's where where should I work on this?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then just making sure that all of my numbered and Roman numeraled and alphabetized uh lists and things I'm I'm remembering and holding in in open hands.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that one of my favorite things to do is literally just to look up around me and see the people that I come in contact with and see how I can interface with them and just connect.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: So that's it.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: So you're just really inviting him into your day.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: He's already there, but you're just inviting him and surrendering yourself to him and giving him your day every moment.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's really neat.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for sharing.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, how did you find your way to Northwestern?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like what what originally brought you here?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's interesting because it was a number of years before I started working here.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: I had submitted an application just to do adjunct teaching, which I had done some at Bethel, and I've taught for Minsky in the past as well.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so we had moved back to this area after having attended Bethel.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: My husband and I lived away from this area for about a decade, and I thought, well, teaching at the university level is what I love to do, so I should apply here.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I almost had an interview, but then it must have been the last time that they canceled classes on campus because of snow, was the day I was supposed to have my interview.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so it was canceled.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: And then about two or three, or maybe even four years went by, and I got a call to see if we could schedule an interview because there was a research methods class that was going to be taught spring of 2019.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: And all of a sudden, at the beginning of December, there was no one to teach it.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_03: And so I interviewed for it the week of finals for y'all here on campus, and then started teaching in the middle of January, which, as someone who had taught as at an adjunct level many, many years before that, that wasn't all that atypical.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so, but that was what first got me in.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_03: And interestingly, it was a 4,000-level class of research methods.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I love research.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's not a typical normal adjunct level class, but I had so much fun coming on campus and it was a huge class, normally about a dozen students in it.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_03: That semester, I think it had not been taught.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_03: It was, there were over 25 students.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was 28 or 29 in that class.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so I just got to jump in here and meet all of these great people.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you you were high demand from the beginning, is what I'm hearing.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: I guess.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, they yeah, no, I I I came to them and I was so happy to have them.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_03: And still today I run into some of them within the community or at at different events when alum are back on campus, and they're just fabulous people.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: And how cool that you get to start with research method methods of all topics.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like right down your alley.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: When was that?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: When did what year was that when you started?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: Spring semester of 2019.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: So you're coming up on what, seven years of teaching here, something like that?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, exciting.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, uh, we know, but students just love having you here.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: We hear that from a lot of students and a lot of our young alums.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: So well, what classes are you teaching right now?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: And and of them all, which are your favorites?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's a difficult question.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: The first question is easy.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'm teaching research methods this spring, as well as gender and family, mass media and society.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I will be teaching in Quad 4, nonverbal communication and culture.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: And that is a really hard mix to ask my favorite of because I do love research, but I also love family communication because it is so much of has an impact on every day of your life.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: And mass media and society is looking at the intersection of media and humanity and society and how they impact each other.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_03: So that's my area of research.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, when I was interviewed by I was the very first person that President Hornbeek interviewed for faculty positions, so uh for a full-time position.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_03: And he asked me, if you could teach any class, what would it be?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, without missing a beat, nonverbal communication in culturally diverse settings.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so looking at hand gestures and how close we stand to each other and even the olfactory side of how do we smell and say, for instance, a normal French perfume versus an American perfume.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: And so I I can't, I can't pick one.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: They are all like my children, and I cannot tell you which was my favorite.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_05: This is really being bringing me back to my own schedule roster as a communication major here.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_05: Like, oh, I took all those classes and I remember I still remember what I learned.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_05: So professors like you.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell Does it excite you to want to take them again?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Just hearing my own.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_05: Still interesting.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_05: It's fascinating always.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_05: Communication is always relevant.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: If I had to pick one though, if I really did, it would probably be nonverbal communication and culture.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't even know if you can count it as that you work here then.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like you're just having fun all day teaching all these classes.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: I really do.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: What's the most rewarding part of of teaching communications to this generation?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: I get to see the fact that we actually have a ton of hope.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of bad going on in the world, but there are some really great younger brothers and sisters in Christ that are coming uh up and growing into the ability to lead our world well.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: And so I love that.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: I love being able to learn together with them and see what they have to say and experience and just see things from their perspective and from their learn all of their vocabulary.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: All the vocabulary.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_05: Whether they want you to use it or not.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_05: Valid.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: So other than the vocabulary, are students changing?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Are they any different today than they were when you started seven years ago or so?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: And if we're going all the way back to when I started in 1999, absolutely.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: So so many things that have entered the world since then.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: The smartphone was invented FaceTime in 2010.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: Just all the whole world has changed.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, a few years ago, back in 2023, the World Health Organization declared a that loneliness was a major health crisis in the world.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I do see that.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: I see that students, even though they are living close together, uh, oftentimes they struggle with loneliness.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I also see, especially post-COVID, a really high level of adaptability.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: That there are a lot of things that they can handle and that they are able to adjust and switch in ways that I certainly would have struggled with as a student in the 90s, just to change and adapt and roll with things.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I do think that they have a heart to want to serve the Lord, our students here on campus, and it's really great to help them see how they might be able to do that.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Would you say that adaptability is that the same as resiliency or are those two different things?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: I think that resilience is not letting it crush you, and adaptability is knowing the next steps to take to be able to step forward, not having been crushed.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: If that makes sense.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_05: So your current study, and let me know if I get this right, is the effect of mobile phone's presence on mealtime conversation and subsequent relational depth.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_05: Is that correct?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_05: That is correct.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_05: That's so cool.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_05: So tell us more.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_05: Where did that idea of studying phones and mealtime conversation come from?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_05: Sure.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_03: It first originated back, I think, the first time that I was in Europe.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I had been about two decades before, but in 2019 I spent a good chunk of the summer in Europe and then have traveled there since a number of times.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I noticed a difference in the way that people didn't primarily use phones at tables in Europe versus in the United States.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: And before that, I had noticed the sad situation where you'd see a couple sitting across the table from one another, and one of the two is on their phone, completely distracted, and the other is just kind of disassociating, looking across the room, not doing much of anything.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: And so I it was the contrast though that when I saw, oh, this isn't universal throughout the entire world, that it made me think, why not?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: What we need to study this, we need to look into it more.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_05: So you're saying that Americans in general would have more of a habit of looking at their phones than our European counterparts.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I would say that.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: Now, since I have studied it, I would have more details.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: I know everything in me is like, why?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to know why.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: I know we're gonna get there, but yeah, maybe we can find out.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, that's great.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_05: So uh why is mealtime such an important space for studying relationships?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think there are two parts to it.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: As far as a study goes, it is an easy containable time frame.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: So it's easy to bring people's minds to that setting instead of looking at all of life and your phone use throughout the whole day.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_03: Because, like you said, your phone use during work time is different than the evening, and so it encapsulates a particular time of the day.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: But then also mealtime is something that needs to happen at least a couple of times, usually three times per day.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so it is something that is a given in our schedules, and it is something that traditionally people have done together.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think there are a few reasons for that.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_03: We are supposed to remember the Lord when we do break bread and eat that together, and so there's that component of it.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: But then additionally, our stomachs just keep us going for food, and food is usually prepared in a communal way.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: So uh and I I don't know.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: In my family growing up, mealtime was something we did together.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: Did you both grow up in homes where that was the case too?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_05: We did every night, except I think Friday night, we would we would watch a show together while we ate.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_05: But other than that, we were at the table together.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was an important priority for us too.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: There may be exceptions when there's a a game or something going on.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: But even to this day, if we have food together as a family, we linger for a long time and eventually we'll do the dishes, right?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_03: And so since that is something that isn't everyone's experience, but it is a lot of people's experience, it is a time for a lot of family connection and connection with our loved ones or our friends if we're on campus, even in a dining set center situation.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so I thought that is a time where relationship development happens a lot, and so it would be a high impact area with our phones.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_05: Interesting.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_05: I feel like this conversation is going to be convicting for many of us.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_05: Um when you started researching, was there a problem you were hoping to better understand?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know I I think even more so than a problem, I wanted to figure out what the solution was as far as how can we change our phone use patterns to make sure that we are keeping those table times times that we are connecting with people, and then hopefully with the the aim that it would spread beyond the table to other times of the day as well.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: And do you know, do you want to know what my hope has been for it?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_03: Please I do.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: My hope for it has been that we we kind of turned a corner when it came to smoking cigarettes and tobacco.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_03: When I was a child, a whole lot of people smoked, and now a whole lot fewer people smoke.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: And if that addictive substance can be overcome societally, where there's a big difference in our trend with cigarettes, we can do the same thing with cell phones too.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_03: We there is hope.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: There is hope that we can actually step away from the phone.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: So does that mean the first step is gonna be there's a a cell phone-only dining area, like a smoking only that is drifts.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_03: Phones are not the sound of the notifications drift over that.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_03: Or somebody calls somebody in the non-cell phone seating.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_05: On a personal level, I've seen that you know, my husband and I spend more time on our phones than our kids do now.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_05: We're as millennials, we're on our phones maybe more because it's this newfangled thing that came along in our lifetime.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_05: But for them, my my daughter will see somebody walking around on their phone and she'll call them a screenager.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_05: Uh so she's she's already judging them based on their focus.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Weren't you sharing that she came into your room the other day and she also calls me a screenager?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Mom, get off your phone.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's time to go to bed.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_05: It's you know, my doom scrolling time at night.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_05: It's my time.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_05: Not taking the focus off anyone else, but mom, get off your phone, go to bed.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_05: But so I am not a research per researcher personally.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_05: Um I don't I have no idea how you even begin to study something like this.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_05: So what was that process like?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I started with the first year just thinking, okay, how is it that I can best examine this?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: So studying communication is interesting because when we do just solely observation, we can see what we're seeing, but we don't necessarily know the motives behind it.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: Or for instance, just to observe people in a restaurant setting, we d I don't know if they've known each other for three decades or 30 minutes.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so the implications of that on their relationship depth, I can't see.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: So one of the most effective forms of just knowing how people feel about the way that they communicate, where things are at, is truly to ask them.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so a Survey is one of the best ways to actually get that information.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: And the nice piece of phone use at tables, and hopefully in the way that I worded it, I think it accomplished this, is to not put people on edge scolding them and making them feel like they shouldn't be on their phones, but just examining the state of it.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: So I created a survey that looked at, okay, if the other person across the table from you is on their phone while you are telling them a story, would you be less likely to continue to share that personal story with them?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: And if they just had their phone sitting on the table, would you be less likely to tell them something deep?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_03: Or if they are just completely absorbed in it or glancing at it.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: So different different levels of questions.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: And so that that was one component of it.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: So the first year that I studied it, it was with surveys.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: It was in multiple places within the US where I was able to distribute that and took a look at the data there.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_03: Then I really did want to get to the piece of, but are people in Europe viewing this differently?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: And so I modified the survey very slightly, just adding elements of just being able to capture where people were from more concretely, and then distributed the survey throughout some places in Europe as well.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_03: And Europe specifically, just because that is where I both had exposure and access.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was able to interact with people well in Europe.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I ended up having 450 participants across those two years with the survey, and was able to get enough numbers in order to have the statistics be valid in multiple locations in Europe and in the US.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: And interestingly, our perspectives are quite similar.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I wanted to get further and deeper into okay, so then what do we do about that?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: So this year and and especially this fall, I really focused on two additional techniques, and that being interviews and observation.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was able to conduct a number of interviews of people in Europe from a number of countries, and then additionally, some in the US, I have a few more to do here, as well as just spend time sitting in restaurants and observing the rates of phone use to confirm that what I thought I was seeing truly had been happening, that truly the phone use is less in Europe than what it is.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Was that kind of a fun part of the process?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Observing like go check out some restaurants and just look around.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_03: And do you know I I have learned a few things technique-wise about the differences that are a little bit different than what I thought that they would be, but it it's fascinating nonetheless.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I'd love to hear more about what you found out.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_05: So can you tell us more about your key findings within the survey?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_05: And then as you dove deeper into those interviews, I'd love to hear about that.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think my strongest key finding is that indeed 70% of participants agree that using mobile phones during our meal times negatively impacts how deep our closest relationships are.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: And so the sequence that I logically progress down and confirm with questions is okay, when people are on their phones, we share and communicate on a less deep level.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: We're not going to share our deepest dreams.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: We're not going to tell the details of that story from the day, even if the person doesn't seem to be paying attention.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Something something shuts down.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, you're kind of talking to somebody else here at the same time as I'm sharing this.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: Or checking on the game or watching a cat video or whatever it might be, something is more important to you on that phone.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: And and so because the conversations are less deep, as a result, our relationships become less deep.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: It impacts the depth of the relationship.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: And ultimately, I might sound melodramatic here, but I do think that then we'll have a societal impact as we have many people with less deep relationships, like the World Health Organization has confirmed.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: We have a lot of lonely people in the world, even though we are in some of the same relationships and categories of relationships that we have been, they may very well be less deep.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: And then as we have a society of people that are feeling lonely, this is a problem.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: As people created in God's image for relationship and to communicate with one another and relate with one another, when we are not doing that to the full extent of what God created us to, that's a problem that we need to resolve.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's a big problem.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you're you're so you're finding finding this correlation that if the phones are out, 70% agree that the conversation just they just go less deep, or they have an unwillingness to go as deep as they would have had the had the phone just simply been put away.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a desire for deeper relationship.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: So the desire is still there.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: But the phone is almost like a blocker to that deeper relationship, which then leads to s eventually to societal impact because of the impact and we don't have as many deep relationships.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_05: So you talked about having just the presence of a phone.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_05: How does that impact conversation if it's just nearby?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: So there are two different elements there.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_03: One is distraction for self.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_03: When you see your phone, you may think, oh, wait, I I never texted that person back.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I didn't send that email at the end of the day, right?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_03: It serves as a physical reminder of things that distract us from being less good listeners, that we're not as good at listening when our phones are out.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: And then also just the act of looking at the notifications and such.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: And so again, even if the the study has shown that even if people are not actively on their phone, if they're passively on their phone, if it is sitting there and they're just glancing at their phone while you are talking to them, you will start, you will share less deeply when it appears that they're distracted by whatever is going on on their phone, checking the score or looking to see if the person has responded to the text message yet.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell Did you find that the setting mattered with this?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like if somebody's, if it's a couple having dinner in Paris or whatever, and you're hoping for maybe more relational depth in that setting versus maybe a group of people, maybe there's a game on TV as well.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Does that impact relational depth, or does it, would you say impacts in both of those settings?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Powell I think there's some sort of an impact in both, but I do think that you are right, Monty.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_03: There is a difference.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_03: And especially when I interviewed and spoke with people from Europe, they had a very big distinction between if it's a group of friends hanging out, kind of like you, it's you said watching a game, or if there's a group of 10 teenagers hanging out, they're more likely to check that thing on their phone to see if another friend is coming.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_03: And it doesn't negatively impact the interaction as much as if the family has gone out to celebrate dad's birthday, and everyone is there in a more formal setting to do something where it has a greater relational significance.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: Additionally, you are correct that the people that I interviewed, I interviewed a handful of people from the United States that were in Europe, a few of them traveling for pleasure, as well as a couple of people traveling for work as well.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: And those traveling for pleasure just said, you know, when I'm on vacation, I don't use my phone as much.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: I use it to take pictures and things, but they're just chins up experiencing it more often.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: And then on the opposite side of it, both on the European side and on the American side, people did confirm that when they are alone in a restaurant, they will use their phone.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: And both sides see that as completely acceptable.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_03: If you are alone in a business person conducting business on a business trip at breakfast alone in the hotel uh lobby restaurant, that that's fair game.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Do your thing just by yourself.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: There might be times when maybe that's such an ingrained habit that maybe you should just take a meal without your phone as well.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: But depends on the setting.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_05: It's interesting that vacation impacts our screen time too.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe it's an escape.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_05: You've already escaped.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_05: So you don't need to escape into your phone.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I think vacations are often viewed as special family time.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so it is viewed in a different category, just like you might be less likely to be on your phone playing a game, sitting on the sofa by the Christmas tree on Christmas Eve, hopefully.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: But this is a problem, right?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because even if you just take a data point in from one meal, it's probably likely that that's not just the only meal when that's happening.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it's probably recurring and really eroding the relational depth.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: So how do we turn this to application?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: And how do we start to unpack?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so we're thinking about what this means for us as individuals and as a culture.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: How does this change our behavior?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like what are what are some ways that we can turn the tide on this?
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's a good question, Monty.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: That is what this spring I'm going to be putting into very eloquent words.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_03: But my my initial observations with this, as I have asked the people that I've interviewed those exact questions of what does the ideal look like?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_03: How do we fix this?
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: What is the setting like when we set it up to have great depth of conversation and great depth of relationship?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: Over and over and over again, people said, well, put your phone away.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: Keep your phone away and just make sure that it is not out.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: One European practice that I find to be something that we could benefit from adopting is that it is more common in Europe to only take your phone out when the person that you are dining with goes to use the bathroom.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: So over and over again, one of the observations that I would make, and this was confirmed with interviews, is that when the person they're with leaves, then they will take their phone out and they'll check the notifications and maybe send that quick text that they need to then.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_03: And interestingly, I I very consistently saw people put it back away long before they the person came back into sight.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_03: So it was not only not being on your phone, but even give not giving the the impression that you really wanted to be on your phone, but they were crunching your style a little bit.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: And now that they're coming back, you're putting it away quickly.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: But they would put it away as soon as they sent that message or something and just wait for the person to return.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: You're using it with intention, not just because.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: You said put your phone away.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's like memes out there with like therapists and whatever, like when they somebody has a behavior that they should stop, and then they it becomes a lengthy answer, and there's like jokes that it a therapist will answer, just stop.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: Just stop it.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: Things aren't necessarily that easy, but if you're a family or just an adult and you want deeper relationships with your kids or just with your friends or the people in your life, how can you do better than having mobile phones steal from that?
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: Put the phone away.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Is it is it as easy as that?
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_03: Or almost, but I do think that it reminds me of scripture where the demons are cast out and then they returned and brought friends with them, right?
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_03: There's always that vacuum, that hole that we need to fill.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so filling it intentionally with something positive.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_03: So it could be, depending on your family, some families will utilize some sort of a very standard you can expect to hear the same questions that everyone needs to go around the table and answer.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_03: So having a a habit or a pattern of at least a start to that conversation, or having it be that, okay, we don't want to just sit all evening and scroll individually on our phones.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_03: So saying, okay, if if we're going to be playing games, let's get out of board game, let's play a game.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_03: So intentionally choosing other activities to fill the time that we were on our phones.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_03: And so physical activities, things that are in time and space, because ultimately a phone is just a a few inches, what, three inches by five inches or so sheet of glass with pixels behind it.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_03: And we give so much of our lives to that little rectangle.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so if we can get up and move our bodies, go out in the backyard, throw a football around, tackle each other, risk the broken arm.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: And actually move together and be in time and space together and not just fall into that little rectangle and come back out and realize, oh, there's someone sitting on the sofa next to me, and I didn't even haven't said anything to them for 45 minutes, but just interacting and choosing intentionally what we're going to do with them.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_03: Another thing that is helpful is if you are going to be on your phone, if there's something you just really love to do on your phone, do it together.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: So my husband and I are known for racing with the New York Times games.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_03: So we will pull up connections and on your market set, go, and we will see which of the two of us can get it done faster and then have a conversation about how weird that one combination was or whatever it is, and then move on.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, wordle, here we come, and go.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so if you if there are things that you do really enjoy, figure out how to make it a social thing.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, one piece that I like to do family-wise with phones, keep your phone the tool that is used when it must be used.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so, especially if you have small kids in the house, get your Bible out and read out of your Bible.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_03: Because to a small child that's moving around the room, you are looking at your phone and a phone and they cannot see if you are looking at your Bible and reading your Bible about 30 minutes a day, or if it is something else.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: And so if you can show them the physical object of what you are doing, if there's another way to do it other than on your phone, yes, it's convenient.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, you can highlight things, but um having it be the actual, especially the word of God, that's a very visual way of changing it up.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's super good.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're teaching your you want to teach your kids to you wanna be an example of being in the word, not an example of just being on your phone all the time.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, which brings me, I was gonna ask you, is there have you seen a connection in your observations, a um connection between phone use and spiritual attentiveness?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_05: Does that impact maybe how in tune we are to what the Lord's telling us or our time with the Lord?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Ross Powell That's not something that I have researched.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_03: So from a research perspective, I can't speak to it, but I do think that truly, surely, yes, that anytime our attention is drawn elsewhere, it is going to make it more difficult to hear the Lord.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: Anytime you're listening to anything else is the that still small voice that is not going to scream over whatever you're on your phone with.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_05: Those phones are loud.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_05: Mm-hmm.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like kind of like the worst friend ever.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like if we had a friend that just always interrupted and buzzed at us whenever it needed us, or they ever had a thought, or like, hey, hey, hey, hey.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like uh the phones have great purposes, like they like you were talking about.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: They could even be used as a great social tool in your family.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: But if they're just constantly interrupting or trying to demand your attention or focus, yeah, no bueno.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_05: Have you with your with the research, has this impacted your own phone use?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_03: I think it has.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things that I like to do is signpost my phone use.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_03: No matter who is in the room.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: If it's one of my children or my husband, hey, I'm going to send a quick email back to a student that sent a message to me that I'd like to let them know this.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_03: And then I'll I'll be right back with you.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_03: And just let the individual know what I'm doing and the fact that it is intentional.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so that is one piece.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_03: I think the just playing the games together instead of separate, that's been something that has been an intentional piece.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: But I think that it might have bothered me as well because I already had that thought that my phone isn't a very good friend.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_03: And while I love the few things on it, it is annoying.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_03: It is an annoying tool.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_03: But it has impacted the way that I parent the things that I want my children to do on their phone and not do on their phone in making those decisions together as children become teenagers, become adults and that transition, and how do we step through that?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: Because our parents did not have to do that with us.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_03: And so it is a first go-round with this process of how do we help adults form that are going to be great at regulating their use and making good decisions most of the time with it.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's interesting, because I think that conversation comes out a lot into like really practical ways, is usually the first question is like, how do you monitor kids' usage or how do you use your your phone around your kids?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I think what's striking me in this conversation is the bigger issue is actually the presence or the the relational depth.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: That like really that's what's on the line.
• 40:39
  unknown: Right.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is the convert the right conversation, maybe not right or wrong, but like a another way to approach the conversation is how do we prioritize cultivating deep relationships with our kids?
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: And how is the phone going to be a part of that or not a part of that?
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_03: Because every child is different as well.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_03: Some of our kids don't want anything to do with a phone.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not necessary to set up regulations as far as how much screen time they can have per day or anything like that.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: So the phone conversation is very different with that child than the one who loves all the TikTok videos, right?
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's true.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's every they're all different.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a couple years ago we had a a distinguished alum or alums, Jim and Kathy Yost, and they were anthropologists to a tribe in South America or Central America.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: And they summed up their whole life's work as the mission of presence.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: As anthropologists, it wasn't about them just proclaiming and teaching.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was being and becoming and getting to know them, and they earned this sweet relationship, and they did end up impacting people for Christ because they were present and were there.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I see this in a different angle as you've been sharing.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: Just the phone can really get at the presence that we have with people in our lives, whether they're our kids or our friends.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there's a mission of presence in how we decide to use our phone or to not use our phone.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: And the the impact is going to be significant both on our hearts and our relationships and expanding the kingdom of God.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: You're right.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot in this.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: It seems like a at the top, it seems like a simple study of how do mobile phones impact just our relationships over meals.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: But you've led us down this deep hole of relational depth.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_03: A couple of the things I found interesting was just like you had said, uh, that oftentimes it is the parents at the table that have their phones out more than anyone else.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that is something that I find to be true too.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_03: I found when my husband and I sat at tables in Europe, it was us that had our phones out more than anyone.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought, I'm the one studying this.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_03: But it is indeed so much more typical for us as Americans to have our phones out because our son texted us or something like that.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: That we have categories and reasons why it is okay for it to be out.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: I think that that intentionality as adults that did not have this when our children, when we were our children's age, learning how to both model it well, but then also just live it well for our own benefit as well, and just put the phone away and enjoy those beautiful kids that are around our table while they're still there.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's really good.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what's next for your study on mobile phones?
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: I know you talked about your really you have a presentation coming up here in a little bit just on a lot of the application side of things, but what's next for the study?
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_03: So this is year three of three of this particular study.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I am summing this up.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: I would like to have some Some sort of a publication that goes out with it as well.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_03: So I will be capping that off.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_03: I as far as mobile phones go, I'm very fascinated with and have written recently on mobile phones within the classroom and the impact that that has on student learning, on student relationships with those around them and such.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_03: And so that is an area I'm interested in.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_03: But I actually think I'm going to zoom out a little bit and take a look not at phones and relationships, but look at the impact of chatbots.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_03: And don't don't quote me on this yet, but I'm I want to explore the idea of what do the parasocial relationships, where we've got individuals that are having relational needs met by computer-based and computer-generated relationships, how does that impact their human-to-human relationships?
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_03: So not so much about the relationships that they have with AI or the various chatbots, but are they having fewer human relationships then?
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_03: And how do we help people value relationships with actual humans when it's so easy to make friends with a chatbot?
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: So easy.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: No risk.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_03: No risk at all.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: Laura, thank you so much for joining us today for this conversation.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's a fascinating topic, and I think everybody listening can relate to this topic for sure.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully you haven't been on your phones while we've been having this discussion, right?
• 45:36
  unknown: No.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um but thank you for sharing what you found.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: And um just one question to close with.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Unwavering podcast, after all, but what does it mean to you personally to be unwavering?
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_03: I love this question because I I loved this word when it was first spoken, when I first heard it.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so, and it has been my word since then.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_03: I haven't chosen another.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_03: And the idea of constancy and unwavering are very similar.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so, with that, the parts that I have focused on do have to do with just day in and day out having that constancy, especially relationally, so that I am loving the Lord, yes, and loving others around me as well.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_03: And so just being constant in that.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it follows along with our savior.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: He is the ultimate um example of constancy and faithfulness.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for sharing that.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we will make sure to post some resources in the description of this episode and uh like the death of silence in the classroom, the article that you were just referencing with mobile phone and the impact in the classroom, and maybe some other resources that we find too.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: But thank you all for uh for listening to this episode.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: And Laura, thank you again for joining us.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: And um, we'll see you again in another episode very soon.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for listening.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_04: To hear more, subscribe and leave a rating wherever you listen.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_04: And if you know an alum, faculty member, staff, or student of Northwestern doing amazing things out in the world, let us know at alumni at unwsp.edu.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_04: The unwavering podcast, highlighting the people, the purpose, and the pulse of Northwestern.