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Men's Inner Battles · Is Your Way In Your Way?

0:25
Cassandra: out there to all of my listeners and I'd like to welcome you to Is your Way In your Way podcast and I'm your host.
0:32
Cassandra: My name is Cassandra Crawley-Mayo and, for those new listeners out there, let me just share a little bit about this podcast.
0:39
Cassandra: Today is going to be a different twist.
0:42
Cassandra: You know I am all about grounded and empowering women to understand the internal barriers that's preventing them from living their best life on their terms.
0:53
Cassandra: But I'd like us to talk about a different topic that they're still about empowering, but it's actually about empowering you guys to understand the internal I say the internal battles men face is crucial to achieving a holistic personal growth.
1:13
Cassandra: Many women encounter emotional gaps in their relationships not because their partner doesn't care, but because societal norms have taught men to suppress vulnerability by exploring the mental health and relational challenges that men face.
1:31
Cassandra: This episode offers deeper insight into how both men and women can break generational cycles, improve connection and stop being in their own way individually and together.
1:47
Cassandra: And I have a special guest on today and we were talking.
1:51
Cassandra: She's in the orange room and we were talking before I sent her back to the orange room that you know a lot of times our relationship can be very distracting and it can prevent us from living our best life because we can be so fixated on that relationship, fixated on our marriages, fixated on being single and you want a man, just simply fixate it, ok.
2:14
Cassandra: So we want to help you to get unstuck with this so that we can move on with our best life on our terms.
2:21
Cassandra: So, I am going to introduce you to Kristal DeSantis.
2:25
Cassandra: Hi, Kristal.
2:27
Kristal: Hi, cassandra, thanks for having me.
2:33
Cassandra: Yes and welcome to, is your Way, in your Way, and what I'd like to do is I want to read your bio to the listeners so they will get understand, or have a better point of reference, why you are an expert in this field.
2:45
Cassandra: So, Kristal DeSantis is a licensed marriage and family therapist.
2:52
Cassandra: She's an author, a creator of the Strong Model of Relationship Therapy.
2:57
Cassandra: She's based in Austin, Texas, and she specializes in trauma-informed and attachment-based therapy, particularly for first responder couples and men navigating emotional challenges in today's world.
3:13
Cassandra: Her book, strong a relationship field guide for the modern man, offers men practical strategies to foster healthier, more connected relationships, and she is a passionate advocate for men's mental health and recognized voice in international and national platforms like Newsweek, huffington Post and the Good Men Project.
3:41
Cassandra: So here we go, empowering couples to forge connections that withstand the test of time.
3:49
Cassandra: Wow, guys, check this out.
3:51
Cassandra: This is amazing to me Because you know, when we talk about relationships, we're just like, oh yeah, let me hear about that.
3:57
Cassandra: And to have an expert on the podcast today, I'm just super excited about this.
4:02
Cassandra: So, Kristal, first question for you, I am curious, and when I'm curious, so is my audience.
4:09
Cassandra: For you, I am curious, and when I'm curious.
4:12
Cassandra: So is my audience.
4:13
Cassandra: I'd like to know your background or your backstory that triggered your curiosity about relationships.
4:19
Kristal: Yeah, so I grew up with a very traditional family.
4:23
Kristal: So my dad was a full-time worker, dad was a full-time worker and my mom was a full-time stay-at-home mom.
4:36
Kristal: So I grew up in this kind of very traditional kind of gendered script of what relationships, what marriages, look like.
4:40
Kristal: And you know, I was growing up and I'm one of six girls in my family- oh, wow.
4:48
Kristal: And yeah.
4:49
Kristal: So it was great, it was fun.
4:51
Kristal: But one thing I kind of realized is that, you know, I didn't really see necessarily the path that my mom took as the path for me.
5:03
Kristal: My younger sister, she really, you know, she really kind of saw herself in that path and she got married quite young and but I really, just I thought I was like, well, you know, I've put in my time changing all my little.
5:21
Kristal: You know my, as the oldest daughter, I'm like I've got all the under siblings, I've done the diaper thing, I've done the bottle thing.
5:27
Kristal: I've, you know, as many of your female listeners can identify with this, right, it's like, as the oldest daughter, you do get a lot of responsibility.
5:35
Kristal: And so what I really wanted was to, you know, explore my career, do something else.
5:42
Kristal: So, long story short, what ended up happening is I just didn't really date, I didn't have time for it.
5:47
Kristal: You know, I was, you know, just doing all the sports and those.
5:52
Kristal: You know all of that.
5:54
Kristal: But then my younger sister got married and so when my younger sister got married, it really kind of highlighted that, oh gosh, I didn't have any relationship experience, I didn't know anything about anything when it came to dating and growing up with all girls.
6:08
Kristal: I didn't really know anything about boys, except you know they're over there.
6:12
Kristal: So I ended up dating and it was terrible.
6:17
Kristal: So I was like, wow, I don't know how to do this at all.
6:20
Kristal: So I ended up, going to therapy, met with a marriage and family therapist and I was fascinated because I was like, oh, I didn't even know you could learn how to do this.
6:29
Kristal: I thought it was just you know, some people are born with the gene of like, they want to settle down, they want to get married, they want to have babies, and some people just they don't.
6:37
Kristal: God skipped them in the lineup and so when I realized it was a skill that I could learn, I just, you know, started learning myself going to therapy, and then I started going to school to become a therapist.
6:52
Kristal: And then here I am.
6:54
Cassandra: Wow, that is so fascinating because I didn't think dating and relationship took a skill.
6:59
Cassandra: But you know, based on you know what I've gone through in my relationships and I'm sure many of the listeners like, well, you know what, I should have gone therapy before I even started dating so that I can acquire this skill Like Kristal was talking about.
7:12
Cassandra: So now I'm going to find out what I could do differently now.
7:16
Cassandra: That's going to help me.
7:18
Cassandra: But one thing before we move forward you talked about the path your mom went through.
7:24
Cassandra: What was that path?
7:24
Cassandra: What was that path?
7:27
Kristal: What was that?
7:27
Kristal: So she I mean basically she never really had her own career.
7:34
Kristal: When she was young, you know, she knew she wanted to get married.
7:39
Kristal: She was engaged and then, you know, just got married and started having kids and she was a stay-at-home mom and you know that was her life and she was a fantastic mom, ihome mom and, um, you know that was that was her life and she was a fantastic mom.
7:52
Kristal: I mean, literally she is the best mom you could ever ask for.
7:54
Kristal: But and again, like my dad is also, he was a great parent to me, but he was not a good husband to her, and so I saw that she was, you know, very dedicated a mother.
8:08
Kristal: She was very dedicated as a wife and she did not have a partner who was matching that energy.
8:15
Cassandra: Wow, that's.
8:15
Cassandra: That's interesting and a well-known story, I'm sure, that type of behavior so tell us about.
8:28
Cassandra: Well, let me say, do you mind sharing what your journey to love was like?
8:35
Kristal: Yeah, that was uh.
8:36
Kristal: So I guess that after my, after my younger sister got married, it kind of highlighted that as the oldest daughter, I was not dating, um, and also my mom is Asian, and so there in the Asian culture it's like you do kind of you know, start in order when you do get married.
8:54
Kristal: And so it kind of highlighted like okay, well, what's going on with her?
8:59
Kristal: Like why is she not?
9:00
Kristal: So I was like fine, I guess I'll date.
9:03
Kristal: And so literally the next time I went out and there was a guy that was attractive and asked me out, I was like okay, because usually before that I would just kind of have a standard line like oh, I don't date.
9:34
Kristal: Like you know, we could be friends, but I'm kind of pursuing this or pursuing that Dating is not really on my radar.
9:40
Kristal: And so I dated this guy and it was just like I was like what is the point of this?
9:46
Kristal: Like I don't, we're both, you know, like I'm attracted to him, he's attracted to me.
9:51
Kristal: But like what are we doing?
9:54
Kristal: Like yeah, and so that it didn't last very long it lasted a couple of months because I was like I just don't understand how to do this.
10:02
Kristal: Like what is what is happening here, and maybe partially because, you know, I was so ambitious in other areas of my life, I was like just to kind of like hang around with a guy just because, yeah, I have male friends, like I could do that with anybody.
10:20
Kristal: Why, why, why this?
10:22
Kristal: So I didn't date after that.
10:25
Kristal: For a while, after breaking up with him, I was like I just don't, I just don't get it, like until I'm ready to get married, what's the point?
10:30
Kristal: Yeah, I came up with him.
10:37
Kristal: I was like I just don't, I just don't get it, like until I'm ready to get married, what's the point?
10:40
Kristal: But then I did end up, you know, when online dating came out and so one of my friends she made a profile for me and I ended up matching with my husband on the dating app and I met him and I was like, oh my gosh, I really like this guy.
10:47
Kristal: This actually might be the one, but once again.
10:49
Kristal: I was like oh my gosh, I really like this guy.
10:51
Kristal: This actually might be the one, but once again I was like but I don't have any relationship skills Like what do I do?
10:59
Kristal: And so that's when I went to therapy and that's when I started working through my attachment stuff.
11:08
Kristal: I started working with my fear of ending up like my mom or being in that kind of situation.
11:11
Kristal: You know, I didn't even realize like I had underlying trust issues when it came to relationships.
11:17
Kristal: And so really working through all of that, and that is what then?
11:23
Kristal: My story of love was.
11:25
Kristal: I really wanted to.
11:26
Kristal: You know, I matched with my husband.
11:28
Kristal: I wanted to keep him, but I didn't know how.
11:30
Kristal: I matched with my husband.
11:31
Kristal: I wanted to keep him, but I didn't know how.
11:34
Kristal: And now, gosh, we've been together now 15 years.
11:41
Cassandra: Wow, oh my gosh, that's incredible, what a great story you talked about.
11:44
Cassandra: So before you got married, you went to a therapist, correct?
11:51
Cassandra: And then during that time, is that when you started your practice, or?
11:57
Kristal: No, no, I've.
11:58
Kristal: I've been a therapist since 2014.
12:02
Kristal: So so I went to therapy first for a couple of years, and then I realized like, oh gosh, this is something you could learn, this is something you could do.
12:10
Kristal: So then I went to you know, gosh, this is something you could learn, this is something you could do.
12:13
Kristal: Then I went to grad school for a couple of years and then started.
12:16
Kristal: I graduated in 2014.
12:19
Cassandra: OK, ok, ok, all right, I am really interested in what you learned and what my listeners could learn.
12:28
Cassandra: What skills do you believe we, as women, should have?
12:33
Cassandra: And also, there is a perception of masculinity Like what is a man like?
12:41
Cassandra: What should we think, what should they be like?
12:44
Cassandra: And when they're not like what we expect, then it's like nope, absolutely.
12:50
Cassandra: Can you tell us a's like nope, absolutely.
12:51
Cassandra: Can you tell us a little bit about that?
12:54
Kristal: Absolutely, and I'm happy to share my own story.
12:57
Kristal: And then what I use in my practice is understanding your attachment style and then understanding any relational trauma that you've experienced.
13:10
Kristal: These two things right.
13:12
Kristal: So for me, going into therapy myself and kind of unpacking what my fear of marriage, what my fear of you know, ending up kind of like my mom or being in a situation with a man who was not faithful to me.
13:27
Kristal: You know that was all attachment, injuries and trauma from seeing what I saw with my parents and I didn't even realize how much it had affected me, right.
13:39
Kristal: So I was really mistrustful of men.
13:40
Kristal: Um, you know, as probably a lot of women are right, if you grow up and you know also my husband, he is kind of the opposite of me.
13:51
Kristal: He grew up with five brothers and I grew up with six sisters and then he was in the Marine Corps and so he's also this very like masculine and I, you know, I went to an all women's college, so we could.
14:03
Kristal: You know, we're kind of like a cross-cultural couple as well.
14:13
Kristal: You know my parents were cross-cultural and sometimes that worked really well for them.
14:15
Kristal: You know of all the things that didn't work in their relationship.
14:18
Kristal: That was something that I did see my dad really make an effort to understand my mom's culture, and so that was something.
14:26
Kristal: And so those kind of three core things are.
14:29
Kristal: What I use in my practice is helping people understand attachment, helping people understand the impact of trauma and it could be, you know, vicarious trauma, right, it doesn't necessarily mean it happened to them, it could be watching their mom get cheated on, or you know all of that, right.
14:47
Kristal: And then also understanding that you know men and women are socialized very differently and then ending up in a relationship together, approaching it almost like a cross-cultural couple yeah, it's going to set you up for greater success than assuming that men think like women or women.
15:06
Kristal: You know, because it's just not, it's not the same at all.
15:10
Kristal: Because it's just not, it's not the same at all.
15:13
Kristal: You know, even when I was in college, like I said, I went to an all-women's college and we would go socialize, you know, with the frats and with you know the boys and I just remember thinking like okay, you look at a sorority house and it's beautiful and it smells nice, and all the girls are like they take pride in it.
15:37
Kristal: And then you go to a frat house and you're like don't touch anything, like yeah, you know, the floors are sticky, there's mold in the fridge, and I was like how are these people supposed to end up together, like how are they supposed to co-create an environment that feels good if this is the standard that is acceptable, right?
15:47
Kristal: Um, so all of those things again just really is kind of core in the work that I learned, you know, going to therapy myself through my own experiences, and then also what I teach couples now is like you got to understand.
16:02
Kristal: you know what your attachment style is.
16:03
Kristal: You got to understand how trauma has impacted you and you got to recognize that if you're in a heterosexual relationship, you are in a cross-cultural relationship.
16:13
Cassandra: Okay, okay.
16:14
Cassandra: So in your bio you stated you specialize in trauma-informed therapy, particularly first responder couples and men navigating emotional challenges in today's world.
16:31
Cassandra: Now what is okay and specialized in trauma?
16:46
Kristal: is that the attachment, what is specializing trauma?
16:47
Kristal: So I am trained in EMDR, which is a specific type of therapy that is used specifically for PTSD.
16:51
Kristal: Yeah, okay, yeah.
16:52
Kristal: So I got trained in that through the police department because I wanted to work with officers and also with veterans, because EMDR is a very, very effective tool for working through trauma.
17:07
Kristal: But it can also be used for people with complex PTSD, right, and so that might not be like I was in a car accident or I was in a war.
17:17
Kristal: It can be also used with like I was, you know, maybe exposed different things as a child or I had this really traumatic experience in my past relationship.
17:27
Kristal: So that's what I use primarily, okay, as my trauma-informed modality, but also just in general trauma-informed approach.
17:36
Kristal: It kind of recognizes that you know your mind and your body are connected, Because I see this with a lot of really high-intelligent and high-functioning women is they're like I know up here something, something, but I don't feel it in here, if that makes sense, right.
17:54
Kristal: So there might be saying like I know this partner didn't cheat on me, but I just have this sense in here that men are not to be trusted, right.
18:03
Kristal: And so the trauma-informed work is saying you know, let's listen to the story that your body is holding and let's, let's make room for that and process it and let's so.
18:15
Kristal: It's kind of what's called in the therapy world like a bottom up approach rather than a top down approach, cause the top down approach is like hey, change your thoughts, you change your life and cognitive, and it's like sometimes that works but not always.
18:28
Kristal: If there's a story of trauma, it's stored in your body but not always.
18:32
Cassandra: If there's a story of trauma, it's stored in your body.
18:40
Kristal: So do you believe most men and women experience some type of trauma?
18:44
Kristal: No, it's pretty common.
18:48
Kristal: I would say that you know.
18:48
Kristal: As a therapist and as a supervisor and as a trainer for other therapists, I always encourage therapists to have an understanding of attachment and trauma because you know, most likely you will have a client that will have had some form of trauma.
19:03
Kristal: Because, you know the world is I mean, it's not always a safe place.
19:08
Cassandra: Yes, yeah, yeah.
19:09
Cassandra: So tell us about when you talk about what are the unique challenges faced by men in today's society.
19:19
Kristal: Yeah, the unique challenges faced by men is that the script has changed or the needs of women have changed but the script has not, but the script has not.
19:36
Kristal: And so you know, for generations and this is kind of the preface of my book right For generations, men have been taught that their value is in being a protector, a provider and a procreator right.
19:45
Kristal: So if you could protect your woman, if you could give her food you know, bring home the bacon and if you could give her babies, you were a top-notch guy.
19:55
Kristal: All the moms wanted you for their daughters, like they were fighting for you.
19:58
Kristal: And now that's not exactly what a modern woman wants.
20:04
Kristal: She's like I have my own job, I mean like I want you to have a job, but you don't need to provide for me, necessarily.
20:10
Kristal: And then protection.
20:12
Kristal: I don't want you getting in fights with every guy in the neighborhood, like that's not attractive to me, maybe.
20:19
Kristal: I want some emotional protection, right.
20:22
Kristal: And then procreation same thing, like I don't want you to just give me a baby.
20:27
Kristal: I want you to be an equal parent with me, right.
20:30
Kristal: And yet there aren't scripts for that for men.
20:34
Kristal: I not yet right.
20:37
Kristal: And so we're still in this really transitional period where what women want is different from what men are being taught is valuable yeah, yeah, yeah and I'm seeing a lot of men have this mismatch of like.
20:51
Kristal: I was raised to believe that you getting a good job and being physically fit and then making sure that I you know I can do this, why aren't I finding a woman that wants to match with me?
21:02
Kristal: It's like well, if you don't have any emotional skills, if you don't have any, you know conversational skills, if you cannot handle conflict, well, it doesn't matter how much money you make, she doesn't want you.
21:16
Cassandra: Right, and that's kind of why you hear you know, when there's friction in the relationship, I call it an intense fellowship.
21:24
Cassandra: It's like you indicated I feed you, I give you whatever you want, I have this money, but that's not what they are Women are looking for.
21:35
Cassandra: They think that's enough.
21:36
Cassandra: So, Kristal, what happens, you know?
21:39
Cassandra: Because society has changed and even individuals that get married Do you believe they can?
21:49
Cassandra: You heard the saying this relationship no longer works for me because one of them have grown in this way and the other one's still stagnant.
22:00
Cassandra: Is that happening a?
22:02
Kristal: lot today.
22:03
Kristal: It does happen a lot Because, again, you know, I don't think we have intentional conversations about relationships.
22:12
Kristal: There is kind of this myth that you fall in love and then love magically makes everything happen.
22:18
Kristal: You find somebody you're attracted to, there's chemistry, and then happily ever after and it's like absolutely not.
22:25
Kristal: Relationships take a lot of skill, a lot of intentionality, a lot of communication, a lot of conflict management and unfortunately we really don't set people up for success, like we don't teach those skills in school.
22:43
Kristal: And I do see a lot of couples I mean, thankfully I'm seeing a lot more couples now that are coming in early.
22:49
Kristal: I'm seeing couples now that are in the dating phase, that are in the premarital phase, because they recognize like love is just not enough.
22:57
Kristal: It's not when people say right, like what is that?
23:13
Cassandra: You know, when you hear that, yeah, I'm not sure what that is.
23:21
Kristal: Sometimes you know it's one of two things.
23:24
Kristal: So I talk about in my book the difference between function-based relationships and connection-based relationships.
23:30
Kristal: Right.
23:30
Kristal: So there are relationships that are based relationships right.
23:32
Kristal: So there are relationships that are based on function, right, and that can kind of look like almost transactional.
23:38
Kristal: Yes, yeah, where you pick a partner not necessarily because you deeply connect with them but because they have something that you want.
23:46
Kristal: All right, oh, they're a doctor, I want to marry a doctor, right?
23:49
Kristal: there you know they right, um and yeah.
23:53
Kristal: And those relationships are fragile because when the function ends, let's say they come home one day and they're like I decided I quit.
24:00
Kristal: I don't want to be a doctor anymore, I'm going to be an artist yes, that's max.
24:06
Cassandra: All my my listeners know about max.
24:08
Kristal: I'm so sorry well, when the relationships are based on function, they're fragile right, because the relationship ends when the function ends.
24:23
Cassandra: He's having some type of trauma.
24:25
Kristal: right now I'm not quite sure what it is, his attachment figureheads, right, okay.
24:36
Kristal: And then the other kind of relationship is connection-based relationships, and those are the ones that are deep, they're soulful, they're fulfilling, but they do take a lot of work and, unfortunately, what ends up happening sometimes is people that had a strong connection in the beginning right, let's say they met in college, yeah, relied deeply intellectual, they stayed up all night, or they were deeply spiritual, or they had a great chemistry.
24:57
Kristal: But then what happens is that we, they put the relationship on autopilot and the next thing, you know, they end up only operating on a function level.
25:07
Kristal: Right, so let's say kids come, let's say careers happen, and next thing, you know, they just end up talking about logistics all the time.
25:15
Kristal: And then this is very common.
25:18
Kristal: Then you see them in their 40s and they're like I don't have any deep connection to my partner, I just talk to them about logistics.
25:25
Kristal: What are the kids doing?
25:26
Kristal: What time are you going to be home?
25:27
Kristal: What should we eat for dinner?
25:28
Kristal: What are your parents doing?
25:29
Kristal: And that's where it stops feeling fulfilling and that's where people start feeling like I don't think we want the same things, I think that we've grown apart, when, unfortunately and sometimes they have right.
25:42
Kristal: Sometimes one person is like oh, this is great, I don't want to have any more deep connections, I just want to focus on function, function, performance, performance, right, um.
25:50
Kristal: But then the other person is like I missed the connection, I want it back.
25:54
Kristal: And so that's often where I see people in my office saying can we get it back and, if so, what kind of work will that take?
26:01
Kristal: And unfortunately, sometimes people come in and it's too little, too late.
26:06
Cassandra: Yeah, exactly, Exactly so.
26:10
Cassandra: The fundamentals for you of a healthy relationship is it connection?
26:17
Cassandra: Is it anything else Like?
26:18
Cassandra: What are the fundamentals of a healthy relationship?
26:22
Kristal: That's the fundamentals, so strong.
26:25
Kristal: So that's the title of my book, but it's also the six pillars of a healthy relationship.
26:31
Cassandra: Okay.
26:32
Kristal: So the first thing is safety.
26:34
Kristal: All healthy relationships are safe.
26:37
Kristal: Okay, that means you can express yourself freely.
26:40
Kristal: You can have conflict, that you know you can disagree, but it still feels safe and you feel safe in your shared goals.
26:47
Kristal: You don't have to question does this person want the same things I do?
26:52
Kristal: You feel safe in we have a shared vision.
26:55
Kristal: Because then T is trust trustworthiness right Again, the next pillar of a healthy relationship.
27:03
Kristal: But you cannot trust somebody you don't feel safe with.
27:07
Kristal: You're going to always second guess somebody you don't feel safe with.
27:11
Kristal: So safety is the foundation and then we go trust.
27:14
Kristal: And then the R is respect.
27:16
Kristal: Every healthy relationship respects differences, respects boundaries, and that's environment of mutual respect.
27:26
Kristal: Right.
27:27
Kristal: Whether one person is a stay-at-home parent or the working parent, these people respect what they each bring to the relationship.
27:35
Kristal: And then O is openness open communication, openness about the stages of growth, right the person that you meet when you're 25 is not going to be the same person at 55.
27:46
Kristal: And being open to you know what do we need to do to support our best selves.
27:51
Kristal: And then N is nurturing that right, nurturing the connection between the two of you, not letting it fade into oblivion, saying what do we need to do to be our best selves and how can we support each other in making sure that we don't feel like we're settling being in this relationship.
28:10
Kristal: It's like the power couple.
28:12
Kristal: The power couple is the goal right, but I need to nurture you and I need to feel nurtured by you Right, and that's on both ends, both sides, absolutely.
28:22
Kristal: And then the G is generosity, which is that little extra of you know what.
28:28
Kristal: What can I do to make my partner's day a little bit better?
28:31
Kristal: How can I go out of my way?
28:36
Kristal: But again, you don't want to be generous with someone you don't trust.
28:39
Kristal: You don't want to be generous with somebody you don't respect.
28:41
Kristal: You don't want to nurture somebody you don't feel safe with.
28:43
Kristal: So it really kind of starts with safety, trust, respect, and what I find is that when couples are in crisis, it's usually because safety, trust and respect are not stable.
28:55
Cassandra: Right.
28:56
Kristal: However, when couples are, you know they feel safe, they trust each other, they respect each other, but they're kind of stagnant.
29:05
Kristal: They kind of hit a lull, a plateau and they're like is this it?
29:08
Kristal: That's where I work with couples on the O-N-G.
29:12
Kristal: How can we stay open, how can we look for new possibilities, how can we explore, you know, new things to do together at this stage of our lives?
29:19
Kristal: And then how can we nurture our continued growth?
29:22
Kristal: And maybe that's also nurturing our friend groups right, Making sure that we're staying connected.
29:27
Kristal: And then generosity is what really helps a relationship thrive.
29:32
Kristal: So I kind of divide it into surviving and thriving.
29:34
Kristal: Survival is the basic STR, thriving is the ONG.
29:40
Cassandra: Wow, that is awesome.
29:43
Cassandra: I love that.
29:44
Cassandra: The safety, safety, the trust, respect, being open, nurture and um, generosity.
29:50
Cassandra: I love that.
29:51
Cassandra: So now, uh, as you indicated, you know you've been married for a while and I think sometimes in marriages you take your partner for granted.
30:03
Cassandra: You know like, yeah, you know yeah, how, and you don't want to wait until it's too late.
30:11
Cassandra: Like you indicated, you can have an opportunity and see things just aren't right and you're telling your partner and they're not communicating, they don't want to talk about it anymore.
30:22
Cassandra: I'm kind of thinking, as you said, sometimes it's too late, it's just too late.
30:33
Cassandra: And then there are people that are in a relationship not happy.
30:37
Cassandra: They don't leave because of the kids.
30:39
Cassandra: Okay, then when the kids leave, then it's a whole new dynamic.
30:45
Cassandra: So I guess I'm just my question is how do you sustain that?
30:52
Cassandra: And it sounds like it's hard work.
30:56
Cassandra: Relationships are work.
30:57
Cassandra: If you want them to work, you got to work them, period.
31:00
Cassandra: So how do you sustain that to continue to have a healthy relationship, or or can you continue that?
31:11
Kristal: yeah, you absolutely can.
31:13
Kristal: But this is also where you know part of me coming on this podcast and like talking, and it is changing is having more awareness that therapy can be proactive.
31:23
Kristal: Don't just wait until you're using it as like the er for your relationship, right?
31:28
Kristal: Don't rush in like, oh, our using it as like the ER for your relationship, right?
31:31
Kristal: Don't rush in like, oh, our relationship is, you know, flatlining.
31:32
Kristal: Can you help save it?
31:34
Kristal: It's like be proactive.
31:36
Kristal: Start, you know, doing things with your partner.
31:39
Kristal: Go to communication workshops, go to couples events, find other couples that could be mentors.
31:44
Kristal: Be proactive because that way, you know I have couples that they came in at, you know, premarital, and then you know they come and check in every year or when the next big phase of life, when they have a baby, they come check in.
31:58
Kristal: When they're thinking about buying a new house or making a new big financial decision, they'll come back and check in and really that's that proactive approach of like we don't need to always come in when we're struggling.
32:10
Kristal: We come in proactively because we care, because we want this to last a lifetime, so we're going to treat this like the most important thing in our lives.
32:22
Cassandra: Wow, okay, that's good, that's good.
32:25
Cassandra: I want to talk about sex.
32:27
Cassandra: A lot of people like they laugh when you say the word and you are a sex therapist as well.
32:34
Cassandra: Is that correct?
32:35
Cassandra: Yeah, what are some of the common misconceptions about sexuality and intimacy?
32:42
Kristal: Ooh, there are lots of common misconceptions.
32:46
Kristal: I think there's two basic ones.
32:49
Kristal: One is that men are always up for sex, right, and then the second one is that women have to be convinced into sex right these are kind of the, the scripts, right, even if you think about, like when you're a teenager, where it's like the boy is always going to try to push that line and girls you got to hold the gates, you know, and so that dynamic, it really it really doesn't set couples up for success, because then, often too, what I see later on is what's called kind of desire discrepancy, right, whereas, like, one partner has a higher desire, the other person doesn't, and they don't quite know how to get past that, and so that's a lot of you know.
33:31
Kristal: One big thing I love sharing with couples, which I'm happy to share with your audience, is, you know, the two different types of desire.
33:38
Kristal: There's spontaneous desire and there's responsive desire, and so even just talking about that of like you know, there are some people that are spontaneous when it comes to desire.
33:49
Kristal: It's like microwave right, they can turn it on bing, it's done, they can go along with their day.
33:54
Kristal: Other people are like ovens they need the preheating, they need to warm up, and they access their sexual desire in response to pleasure.
34:04
Kristal: That's already happening.
34:06
Kristal: So it's the pleasure first model, and so even just talking about that with couples, we don't talk about that much at all in our society, right?
34:16
Kristal: And so really just understanding that, when it comes to a healthy sexual relationship, the main goal and this is from the work of Emily Nagoski and she talks about pleasure is the measure.
34:27
Kristal: People don't say no to things that are pleasurable, so is the focus on performance, is the focus on obligation or is the focus on pleasure?
34:40
Cassandra: Interesting.
34:40
Cassandra: Yeah, that's, that's good.
34:42
Cassandra: That's good, that's awesome.
34:45
Cassandra: Wow, okay, okay.
34:53
Cassandra: So what are some advice do you have for individuals to navigate the complexities of the modern dating and relationships?
35:13
Kristal: relationships.
35:14
Kristal: So I would say so, you know, in my, in my model, the first um the first pillar is safety and the first part of safety is self self-awareness okay, right, because I also think that you know in in this culture there's a lot of emphasis on like and like you mentioned in the beginning, like are you in a relationship, are you looking for a relationship?
35:28
Kristal: You know like the beginning, like are you in a relationship, are you looking for a relationship?
35:29
Kristal: You know like the idea that you're supposed to be in a relationship and if you're not, that something's wrong with you.
35:35
Kristal: And I think really just recognizing like, hold on Relationships are really hard work and they're also a choice.
35:45
Kristal: You can also choose to be in a relationship, or you can choose to not be in a relationship until you're ready to look for a partner who will elevate you, not just somebody who will like fill an empty space on your couch.
35:57
Kristal: And again, there's nothing wrong with just finding somebody for companionship, but really, that would be the first thing of having that self-awareness.
36:07
Kristal: Am I just looking for a companionship or am I looking to build a true partnership?
36:11
Kristal: Do I just want somebody to go to the movies with and have sex with, or am I looking for someone to build a life with?
36:20
Cassandra: Okay, Okay and building a life with.
36:24
Cassandra: Does that have to be marriage?
36:25
Cassandra: No, not at all.
36:28
Kristal: No, but you do have to have a shared understanding of what that looks like, right?
36:34
Cassandra: Uh-huh, okay, okay.
36:36
Cassandra: So you know, a lot of times when people are getting ready to get married, they have a lot of the churches have premarital counseling and uh, some, I don't know, a month or two, some six months, um, and you know, and then one of the things they say is don't have sex before marriage.
37:06
Cassandra: That's another big thing.
37:08
Cassandra: Don't live together, you know, unless you're married.
37:18
Cassandra: Now, that's, that's a, I would say, a core belief with certain people.
37:23
Cassandra: You know, but one of the things I've learned since I've been married is and I haven't been married that long is you never know a person until you marry.
37:35
Cassandra: That's, that's me, you know, and I mean you really don't.
37:41
Cassandra: And you see stuff that, oh my gosh, I didn't think.
37:44
Cassandra: Oh my goodness, oh my, my God, what is this?
37:48
Cassandra: What did I do?
37:48
Cassandra: What do you think about that?
37:52
Kristal: You know, it is really interesting, and this is where I'm very, very much advocate for premarital counseling, because dating somebody and being married to them are very different, right.
38:03
Kristal: We have different internal expectations for boyfriends versus husbands, right, and so I think that's something else Like, yes, I'm an advocate of premarital counseling.
38:14
Kristal: As far as going to a church and doing it, just know there are other options, right.
38:19
Kristal: So if your faith is really important to you, that's great, but if not, there are secular premarital counseling options that will help you.
38:27
Kristal: And then, as far as you know, sex or not, that's, you know, personal preference, all of that.
38:34
Kristal: But the moving in together, and that one is actually a really interesting one, because there is some data, some science that says that people that live together sometimes have higher rates of breaking up after marriage, and so you know.
38:51
Kristal: So I wanted to understand that because I was like, ooh, so what is that?
38:56
Kristal: Like you know.
38:57
Kristal: But what they find is that really it's about the intentionality of taking the relationship to the next step, right, and so it's called sliding into commitment.
39:07
Kristal: If people end up living together simply because it was convenient, somebody's lease was up and they didn't really make that intentional next step, sometimes they end up staying in a relationship for too long because they have now a lease together, they have a pet together, and that's where, then, those relationships can be less happy.
39:26
Kristal: So whether or not you choose to live with your partner before marriage, that's totally up to you, but make sure that you're making that choice intentionally and make sure that you're both on the same page about why you're living in together, and is it a practical decision or is it a relational one?
39:42
Kristal: And that really is the difference.
39:45
Cassandra: Okay, that's good, we're almost done.
39:49
Cassandra: This is just fascinating to me.
39:51
Cassandra: I kind of wish that, as you indicated, mean you'll stay together forever or you break up.
39:58
Cassandra: You know it's.
40:10
Cassandra: I just think it's very important because it opens up, you become more aware and your thought process is a little different, like, hmm, this is, this is serious.
40:20
Cassandra: You know it's like to death.
40:21
Cassandra: Do you part?
40:22
Cassandra: Like, oh my gosh, now all this technology and social media.
40:32
Cassandra: This is relatively new you know, and do you think all of that impacts a relationship and, if so, in what way?
40:44
Kristal: It absolutely can.
40:45
Kristal: I mean, first of all, people are just addicted to their phones, you know.
40:51
Kristal: And so what I see often is that it, just regardless of what you're actually looking at, being not present is one of the biggest eroders of connection, right?
41:03
Kristal: It's like, oh, you're in the same house, you're spending all weekend together, but you never actually really connect because you're both on your phones, or you go out to dinner and you're just on your phones, and so that is really, I would say, you know.
41:15
Kristal: Of course there's, like you know, measuring, you know comparison, there's the possibility of, like you know, cheating, but ultimately the big thing is not being present.
41:27
Kristal: And it also impacts children, right, because when parents are on their phones all the time, the kids are trying to get their attention.
41:34
Cassandra: Yeah.
41:37
Kristal: So, really, this is where I see the biggest issue.
41:43
Cassandra: Okay, all right, okay.
41:46
Cassandra: So this book, I love it already.
41:50
Cassandra: I love the strong.
41:52
Cassandra: It's kind of like the title the Way to your Strong Relationship.
41:57
Cassandra: Show that book one more time.
42:01
Cassandra: It's by Kristal DeSantis and I think it's a game changer.
42:09
Cassandra: I'm not ready yet, but I'm going to.
42:11
Cassandra: I'm going to get that book and I encourage my listeners to get that book.
42:16
Cassandra: Whether you are in a relationship or you want to be in a relationship.
42:22
Cassandra: You're not in a relationship.
42:25
Cassandra: I think it is a game changer.
42:28
Cassandra: Just listening to the conversation that we, crystal and I, have had her experience I think it's.
42:36
Cassandra: I just encourage my listeners to get that book Now.
42:41
Cassandra: Would you now the book?
42:43
Cassandra: When I saw the title and I mentioned to you when I let you out and in and back and forth on the um, I was curious to know.
42:55
Cassandra: I can't say men are not readers, but how would you get a man to you know a relationship unless they have the strong acronym you know, how would you get?
43:09
Cassandra: You would recommend this for women to read the book, but you also would like a man to read the book.
43:16
Cassandra: How do you get men to read the book?
43:18
Kristal: podcast.
43:19
Kristal: They, you know they like driving, so I put it on Audible for men Also.
43:22
Kristal: You know I've had a lot of men read it because you know it's been recommended to them either by their partners, by another male friend or by their therapist.
43:40
Kristal: And you know, part of the reason I wrote this book for men even though I recommend women read it too is because there just isn't that much out there for men when it comes to self-improvement and improving their relationships.
43:52
Kristal: And I know that there are very high functioning, like high performing men that are looking for self-improvement, but unfortunately what they end up finding are finance books, fitness books, and not relational books.
44:08
Kristal: So what I've found is that for a man who is kind of really looking for self-improvement, he will absolutely read the book, and so that's a good sign as well.
44:17
Kristal: It's like, you know, a man that's looking to improve himself.
44:22
Kristal: And then, as a woman, if you want to read it and just kind of, I've had some female clients read it and say, oh, this is the kind of guy I'm looking for, and so this is also then my marker.
44:32
Kristal: As I'm going out there and dating, I'm going to look for these, you know, these six green flags.
44:37
Kristal: Is he safe, is he trustworthy, does he respect my boundaries, is he open, does he know how to communicate, does he nurture my dreams when I tell him about what I want in my life.
44:49
Kristal: And is he generous, and not just financially, but, you know, is he generous with his time.
44:53
Kristal: Does he, you know, make it a point to text me back.
44:56
Kristal: Does he, you know, send me a meme that says, hey, thinking about you.
44:59
Kristal: And so these are all the green flags that a woman can read this book and also start looking for Right.
45:06
Cassandra: I love the green flag thing because we talk about red flags all the time, so these are green flags.
45:12
Cassandra: I love that concept.
45:13
Cassandra: Crystal, how can my listeners get in touch with you?
45:21
Kristal: I am on Instagram at ATX Therapist because I'm in Austin, texas, so ATX Therapist, or my website, is just stronglove.
45:31
Cassandra: Okay, okay, and of course you do virtual therapy right.
45:38
Kristal: Yes, in Texas.
45:39
Kristal: I'm licensed in Texas right now.
45:40
Kristal: I will be expanding to doing some coaching nationally, but I'm not quite there yet.
45:47
Cassandra: Okay, okay.
45:48
Cassandra: Do you have like training?
45:49
Cassandra: Do you offer training?
45:52
Kristal: I do for therapists.
45:53
Kristal: Yes, I do trainings for therapists, especially on working with men.
45:56
Kristal: So yeah, I'm happy to be a resource.
46:01
Cassandra: Okay, Well, it was a pleasure to have you on, is your way, in your way and, Crystal, you have conveyed, I say, a lot of good points, nuggets that can help build strong relationships.
46:23
Cassandra: You know what to look for, guys, when you think of strong.
46:26
Cassandra: Remember the acronym and, more importantly, if you got the book, it would kind of be in your head.
46:35
Cassandra: I mean, I think you know most people like Audible, like I'm an Audible person but I do get the books too.
46:41
Cassandra: But just you know, like this podcast, I encourage you to share it because I know you have friends, acquaintances or somebody that's experiencing some relationship challenges and also want to build a healthy relationship.
47:02
Cassandra: I encourage you to share this, listen to it over and over and you know how to get in touch with Crystal, and I just want to thank her again and my audience.
47:14
Cassandra: You've gained some insight into navigating modern relationship challenges, so I'm hopeful that you're leaving more aware and equipped to foster healthier dynamics through understanding and addressing men's situations.
47:31
Cassandra: We didn't talk a lot about mental health for men, but I think Kristal addresses that as well and that's addressed in your book as well, and it's not just women that have mental health challenges.
47:45
Kristal: Absolutely.
47:46
Cassandra: Right, yes, so thank you so much.
47:49
Cassandra: Thank you as I tell my listeners bye for now, and God bless you all, and thanks again, Kristal.