Latest / The You Project / #1957 Start With What You Don't Want - Bobby Cappuccio

Transcript

#1957 Start With What You Don't Want - Bobby Cappuccio · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: Okay, I agree, because it's it's the self help pantidote.
0:04
Speaker 1: That's exactly what it is. It's also, oh yeah, it's
0:06
Speaker 1: also the You project. It's Bobby, it's Craig, Anthony harpratsass you.
0:11
Speaker 1: It's the whole bloody kitten kaboodle. As my mum says,
0:15
Speaker 1: I don't know what the kitten kaboodle is, but that's
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Speaker 1: what this is. Is that an American term as well?
0:20
Speaker 1: Kitten kaboodle?
0:23
Speaker 2: I gotta ask my cat.
0:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, the kitten caboodle. It's the whole bloody thing.
0:30
Speaker 1: How are you?
0:32
Speaker 2: I'm doing okay, I'm doing good.
0:33
Speaker 1: You know.
0:33
Speaker 2: I interviewed the other day it's not coming out for
0:35
Speaker 2: a while doctor Cam McDonald's. I think he's been on
0:38
Speaker 2: your show. He's just such a he has been on
0:41
Speaker 2: your show. Actually, such a really great guy. And what
0:43
Speaker 2: he was talking about, how sad is it in our
0:45
Speaker 2: society today that we are so busy that sometimes we
0:50
Speaker 2: just go on each other shows to hang out and connect,
0:53
Speaker 2: Because like, after the show, I'd be like, you know,
0:55
Speaker 2: I really thought you had something specific you wanted to
0:58
Speaker 2: talk about, because he's like, yeah, I really want to
1:00
Speaker 2: come on your show. It was like there was nothing
1:02
Speaker 2: really specific that you seem keen about. It is like, well,
1:05
Speaker 2: I'll tell you the truth. I really just wanted to
1:07
Speaker 2: come on your show because we have no time to
1:08
Speaker 2: hang out and I just wanted to hang out and
1:10
Speaker 2: spend some time with you. I'm like, God, I don't
1:12
Speaker 2: know if that's the coolest thing or the saddest thing
1:14
Speaker 2: I've heard in a while, but I am grateful that
1:17
Speaker 2: they get to come hang out with all of our
1:19
Speaker 2: listeners and you every single week. Crag. It's like, it's
1:22
Speaker 2: kind of like our thing. You know. I feel like
1:24
Speaker 2: I should be having a cup of coffee if it
1:26
Speaker 2: wasn't late in the afternoon my time, and it would
1:28
Speaker 2: keep me out you know what.
1:29
Speaker 1: That sounds totally cheesy, but it's totally true. I'm the same.
1:32
Speaker 1: It's like I look forward to this, yeah, because I mean,
1:36
Speaker 1: you and I have been friends for over twenty years.
1:39
Speaker 1: I don't you know, You're on the other side of
1:41
Speaker 1: the world. You're busy over there. I'm busy over here.
1:43
Speaker 1: And if nothing else it I mean, hopefully we share
1:46
Speaker 1: a few thoughts and ideas and messages and stories that
1:49
Speaker 1: are of value to our listeners. But yeah, I enjoy it, mate,
1:53
Speaker 1: And it's funny because I don't I don't have to really,
1:59
Speaker 1: not that I put too much prep or thought into
2:02
Speaker 1: any podcast, let's be honest. But I know I can
2:05
Speaker 1: just sit down and go to you, what do you
2:06
Speaker 1: want to talk about? Or you ask me, or and
2:08
Speaker 1: we just go. Invariably, we don't talk about what we
2:11
Speaker 1: thought we might, but hopefully sometimes we produce something that's
2:16
Speaker 1: of value to the audience. But what's going on on
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Speaker 1: planet Bobby? What do you want to talk about today?
2:22
Speaker 1: Because what was the idea you had about clarity? We
2:25
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about that?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, because you know what happens like because we're on
2:29
Speaker 2: these calls. This is not a call. These shows every
2:32
Speaker 2: single week. She's how old am I? Nobody does calls anymore.
2:37
Speaker 2: I'm always thinking in the back of my head, I
2:38
Speaker 2: wonder what Craig would think about this conversation right now.
2:41
Speaker 2: I wonder what his take would be. So I was
2:43
Speaker 2: speaking to a colleague earlier in one of these in
2:46
Speaker 2: prim TU meetings, and she is just brilliant, like you
2:49
Speaker 2: would absolutely love her. The two of you get on
2:54
Speaker 2: a house on fire and we were just talking about
2:57
Speaker 2: projects at work and roll our and all of this
3:02
Speaker 2: clarity and strategizing, and I had the thought in my
3:06
Speaker 2: head and I threw it out there and she's like,
3:08
Speaker 2: you know, tell me more about that. Where I think
3:12
Speaker 2: maybe it's because I've had some experience as an entrepreneur.
3:16
Speaker 2: I know you're you know, you've been a lifelong serial entrepreneur.
3:21
Speaker 2: I'm wondering if, in life, not just business, if this
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Speaker 2: whole pressure around clarity is overrated, Like like, what do
3:29
Speaker 2: you think, Craig, Like everyone's like out there pursuing this
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Speaker 2: sense of clarity, Like I know exactly what I'm doing
3:35
Speaker 2: and I'm clear on it, like bros and cons Yeah.
3:39
Speaker 1: I think clarity and kind of certainty like what I want,
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Speaker 1: what I want to do that you create change what
3:44
Speaker 1: matters to me, you know, just just just figure out
3:47
Speaker 1: what your values are and then that gives you clarity
3:49
Speaker 1: and the decision making process moving forward and all of that.
3:52
Speaker 1: And it's kind of true. But I think, as you
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Speaker 1: also alluded to before we went live, sometimes it's in
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Speaker 1: the middle of just doing stuff, not necessarily searching for
4:03
Speaker 1: meaning or certainty or clarity or some kind of light
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Speaker 1: bulb moment, but just in the middle of doing stuff
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Speaker 1: that something reveals itself to you, where you go, oh,
4:13
Speaker 1: this is amazing, this is empowering. Is this kind of
4:18
Speaker 1: lights my fire a little bit? Maybe I'll open this
4:20
Speaker 1: door and walk through and see where it goes. So
4:23
Speaker 1: think I think both, you know, whereas you can try
4:27
Speaker 1: to seek certainty and clarity about certain things so that
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Speaker 1: you consciously, Like, on the one hand, we want to
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Speaker 1: live consciously and intentionally, but I think perhaps the pendulum
4:40
Speaker 1: swing of that is where we are constantly analyzing and
4:44
Speaker 1: reanalyzing and dissecting and quantifying and qualifying our life in
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Speaker 1: a way where we're not just living, you know, we're not.
4:53
Speaker 1: It's just like this ongoing kind of almost unhealthy experiment
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Speaker 1: and analysis where now you stick your head up and
5:02
Speaker 1: you're two years down in the project, but you haven't
5:05
Speaker 1: had a laugh, you know, or you haven't Yeah that
5:08
Speaker 1: you haven't really been living, You've just been observing and
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Speaker 1: dissecting and interpreting. So I feel it's got to be
5:15
Speaker 1: a little bit of both.
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Speaker 2: I think I think everything falls into that category. Like
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Speaker 2: clarity can open up possibilities, but it can also close doors.
5:25
Speaker 2: Here's a perfect example. So, yeah, I went to a
5:31
Speaker 2: seminar a long time ago, and I ended up going
5:35
Speaker 2: with these two people, right that I kind of knew,
5:40
Speaker 2: and we just we're sitting down in this seminar. I
5:43
Speaker 2: didn't know them very well at the time. And one
5:46
Speaker 2: of the things, it's one of those three day seminars
5:48
Speaker 2: where it's like ten to twelve hours a day, you
5:50
Speaker 2: know those, right, Yeah, And they charge you something like
5:54
Speaker 2: that's extremely reasonable because they're going to sell you on
5:57
Speaker 2: much bigger stuff, or at least they hope some point
6:00
Speaker 2: within the three days. One of the exercises that we
6:02
Speaker 2: did was we were getting really clear on exactly who
6:06
Speaker 2: we wanted to be with, like who's the partner of
6:08
Speaker 2: your dreams? And they had us write this thing down
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Speaker 2: in minute detail, like exactly what they would look like,
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Speaker 2: how tall they would be, what color hair, what color
6:18
Speaker 2: eyes like, you know, what would be their sense of humor,
6:21
Speaker 2: their occupation, like everything in minute detail. And I'm going
6:26
Speaker 2: through this and it just I don't know, it didn't
6:30
Speaker 2: feel right to do that. Long story short, the person
6:34
Speaker 2: who I was sitting next to doing all of these
6:36
Speaker 2: exercises with, you know, how they partner you up. We
6:39
Speaker 2: actually ended up dating for six months after that, and
6:43
Speaker 2: what occurred to me, very very soon into the relationship,
6:48
Speaker 2: is if we had taken that exercise seriously, I know
6:52
Speaker 2: we weren't anything close to one another's list. There was
6:56
Speaker 2: just no way that I wrote down her, although she
6:59
Speaker 2: was pretty spectacular, and I know she didn't write down
7:02
Speaker 2: anything to do with me. It was just a matter
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Speaker 2: of it was that lack of clarity and coming together
7:09
Speaker 2: in the exploration that the exercises and talking openly about
7:14
Speaker 2: what we might want, but not having a clear idea
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Speaker 2: and discovering that together where I think at the end
7:20
Speaker 2: of the second day we were kind of looking at
7:21
Speaker 2: each other a little bit differently, and I thought, God,
7:25
Speaker 2: thank Heavens, I didn't follow all of those exercises because
7:29
Speaker 2: it would have robbed me from having a great relationship
7:33
Speaker 2: as long as that lasted.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent, and a lot of great relationships
7:37
Speaker 1: on paper don't make sense, but in life and experience,
7:41
Speaker 1: in living, they make all the sense. Like I think logic.
7:46
Speaker 1: Logic is a really interesting topic. I've been talking about
7:48
Speaker 1: it lately a little bit, like what makes sense? What
7:51
Speaker 1: is logical? And you know, you think about what, especially
7:56
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five where everyone's all about the science, Well,
7:59
Speaker 1: science tells us, and science does it, which science, whose science,
8:03
Speaker 1: Who ran the science, who designed the science, who interpreted
8:05
Speaker 1: who financed it? All that shit, right? But I think sometimes,
8:10
Speaker 1: you know, what makes sense, or what we think makes sense,
8:13
Speaker 1: or what we think is possible or what we think
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Speaker 1: is likely, is really just based on us looking through
8:20
Speaker 1: our window of understanding and possibility and comfort. Like I
8:25
Speaker 1: had this conversation the other day, may have even mentioned
8:28
Speaker 1: it on the show. But you think about two hundred
8:31
Speaker 1: years ago, you and me chatting sitting outside our cabin
8:34
Speaker 1: in the bloody wilderness in Colorado, talking about three hundred
8:40
Speaker 1: people flying overhead in a metal tube. We would have gone, well,
8:45
Speaker 1: you're sick in the head. We need to burn you
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Speaker 1: at the stake. You know, it's like the idea of
8:51
Speaker 1: an aeroplane full of people two hundred years ago, or
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Speaker 1: you and I talking to each other face to face
8:59
Speaker 1: kind of like we are now in real time while
9:02
Speaker 1: being on the opposite sides of the world. Well, that
9:05
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. That's not logical, that's not rational, that's
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Speaker 1: not reasonable. But it was all of those things, to
9:13
Speaker 1: be honest, but just wasn't to us in that context
9:16
Speaker 1: at that time. So I just think that, you know,
9:20
Speaker 1: when we go through these little exercises of oh, this person,
9:25
Speaker 1: do they meet that criteria? They do how it's all
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Speaker 1: what do they do? What are their interest? Wow, this
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Speaker 1: is my dream partner, and then you spend six minutes
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Speaker 1: with them and you're like, fuck you, we don't connect
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Speaker 1: at all.
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Speaker 2: There's so much there. It's almost like that exercise where
9:43
Speaker 2: you look around the room and you're like, okay, notice
9:46
Speaker 2: everything in the room that's blue, and then close your
9:51
Speaker 2: eyes and rather than trying to recall everything that's blue, okay,
9:56
Speaker 2: now tell me everything that's green or red or yellow.
10:00
Speaker 2: I don't have a clue, and I'm wondering. It's like
10:02
Speaker 2: we get so clear on that the person of our
10:05
Speaker 2: dream sits down next to us, starts talking to us.
10:08
Speaker 2: We feel this incredible chemistry. But no, I'm sorry. It's
10:11
Speaker 2: it's just like, you know, your hair's too blonde. It
10:14
Speaker 2: wasn't on my it wasn't on my on my human
10:16
Speaker 2: being wish list, as if like I'm ordering something off
10:20
Speaker 2: of Amazon, so that too. You know, you're talking about
10:25
Speaker 2: how myopically we look through our own lens of reality.
10:29
Speaker 2: I mean, we can't help it. So it would make
10:31
Speaker 2: sense that one you can have a level of clarity
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Speaker 2: and start to pursue a certain number of steps. But
10:38
Speaker 2: if we if we admit that our lens is unavoidably myopic,
10:43
Speaker 2: it lends itself to go out and do a bunch
10:46
Speaker 2: of shit, explore, experiment, be uncertain, and then you might
10:52
Speaker 2: but be open to if something like really catches your attention,
10:56
Speaker 2: it gets you all hot and bothered, don't dismiss that.
11:00
Speaker 2: Pay attention to it like you don't have to. You
11:02
Speaker 2: don't have to like commit to it, but pay attention
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Speaker 2: to it. Like improv I wasn't clear on anything that
11:08
Speaker 2: I wanted to do with improvisation. I have no interest
11:12
Speaker 2: in being an actor. I don't know. Maybe like thirty
11:15
Speaker 2: years ago, I would have tried something on stage performer,
11:18
Speaker 2: but that's not anything that I'm interested in now. I
11:23
Speaker 2: just went because I was curious, and a couple of
11:25
Speaker 2: friends of mine said, hey, we love this. We think
11:28
Speaker 2: you'll like this as well. Do you feel like putting
11:31
Speaker 2: yourself in a challenging learning environment for five days? Yeah?
11:35
Speaker 2: And then I went there and I was like, this
11:37
Speaker 2: has so many parallels with coaching. There's no way I
11:44
Speaker 2: would have known that, and there's like reading a book
11:47
Speaker 2: by Sam Wasawson, improv Nation, on the history of improv.
11:50
Speaker 2: Turns out improv was originally a form of counseling, not
11:56
Speaker 2: a theater art form. Originally when Viola spoiled and first
12:00
Speaker 2: started doing it back in the forties, working with Russian
12:03
Speaker 2: immigrants in the inner City of Chicago who were experiencing
12:07
Speaker 2: what would we would now recognize as trauma being completely
12:12
Speaker 2: ostracized from their homeland. They can never go back to
12:16
Speaker 2: see anybody that they loved. They were in a place
12:18
Speaker 2: where it wasn't very invading, they felt disconnected it. It
12:22
Speaker 2: was a form of counseling. How would I have known
12:24
Speaker 2: all of that if I was clear on what I want.
12:26
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, that that doesn't line up with my
12:29
Speaker 2: career aspirations one hundred percent.
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Speaker 1: I think like sitting at home, sitting on the couchs
12:33
Speaker 1: trying to get clarity. It's it's borderline impossible. Like I think, well,
12:38
Speaker 1: maybe you can start the wheels turning, but I feel
12:41
Speaker 1: like when we're in the middle of experiences and places
12:45
Speaker 1: and people and cultures and events and outcomes and life
12:50
Speaker 1: and movement and the dynamic nature of our existence, and
12:55
Speaker 1: you're just in that things reveal themselves, like I get
12:59
Speaker 1: often asked, not so much these days, but still, you know,
13:03
Speaker 1: would be personal trainers always say to me, do you
13:06
Speaker 1: know where somewhere that I can go to do my
13:11
Speaker 1: field work? Because as probably in the States are the same,
13:13
Speaker 1: but when they do a certificate three and four out
13:15
Speaker 1: here in fitness, they've got to go and do you
13:18
Speaker 1: know work hours or work experience hours? And they always
13:22
Speaker 1: want to go to the best place with the best
13:24
Speaker 1: people and the best this and the best that I'm like, well,
13:26
Speaker 1: one that I don't really know. I don't know that
13:28
Speaker 1: place and two and two and two, why don't you
13:34
Speaker 1: just go wherever? Because even if you know, if you
13:37
Speaker 1: go somewhere where there's say ten trainers slash fitness professionals,
13:41
Speaker 1: and one or two of them are great, and a
13:43
Speaker 1: few of them are pretty good, and one or two
13:45
Speaker 1: of them are complete shit. You're going to learn as
13:48
Speaker 1: much from the shit ones as the great ones, because
13:50
Speaker 1: you're going to figure out what you don't want to be,
13:51
Speaker 1: and who you don't want to be, and how you
13:53
Speaker 1: don't want to treat people, and how you don't want
13:56
Speaker 1: to do that job. So whether or not. We're around
13:59
Speaker 1: people that are great at their job or not great
14:02
Speaker 1: at their job, or people that are pleasant to be
14:04
Speaker 1: around or difficult to be around. I think all of
14:07
Speaker 1: those things are moments that can provide clarity and certainty,
14:13
Speaker 1: you know. For me, this is analogous to my idea
14:15
Speaker 1: of anti goal setting, where we try to figure out
14:19
Speaker 1: what we don't want. First, we'll just get clear about
14:21
Speaker 1: what you don't want. And I realized when I was young,
14:25
Speaker 1: I don't want a job. I want to work, but
14:28
Speaker 1: I don't want a job. I don't want a boss.
14:31
Speaker 1: I don't want to wear a suit, I don't want
14:33
Speaker 1: to go to an office. I don't want to sit
14:34
Speaker 1: at a desk, I don't want to sit at a cubicle.
14:38
Speaker 1: And not that those are bad things, but they were
14:41
Speaker 1: not the things that I wanted. And I got really
14:44
Speaker 1: clear about that, and then that kind of eliminated a
14:49
Speaker 1: whole bunch of potential jobs and roles and realities. And
14:53
Speaker 1: I went, well, that's what I don't want, So what's
14:56
Speaker 1: on the other list.
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Speaker 2: That's helped me more than any thing, Like with things
15:01
Speaker 2: where I was like, I don't know exactly what I
15:04
Speaker 2: want out of this or I'm not clear in this sense.
15:07
Speaker 2: Asking myself what would you absolutely not want and then
15:12
Speaker 2: working backwards from that has helped me at many points
15:15
Speaker 2: in my life and get a bit of clarity. When
15:18
Speaker 2: I was struggling to kind of grasp it, I read
15:22
Speaker 2: a post by Angela Duckworth. You know Angela Duckworth is
15:25
Speaker 2: you know she did the research behind grit. She's just
15:28
Speaker 2: she's brilliant. Angela Duckworth.
15:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, I haven't read her, but I know of her.
15:32
Speaker 2: Yes, I am going to completely stuff this up, but
15:36
Speaker 2: she wrote a post today about you know, sometimes grit
15:40
Speaker 2: is not like driving harder within your within your environment
15:45
Speaker 2: and trying to make it work for you. It's restructuring
15:48
Speaker 2: your environment to fit what works best for you. So
15:52
Speaker 2: rather than you trying to struggle against your environment, change
15:56
Speaker 2: your environment to something that kind of supports you and
16:00
Speaker 2: elicits a behavior from you. I thought, Yeah, that's that
16:04
Speaker 2: is fantastic, And it's consistent with like James Clear and
16:07
Speaker 2: bj Fogg when they talk about in environment and a
16:12
Speaker 2: sense of identity versus just doubling down with willpower traditionally,
16:19
Speaker 2: and sometimes it's just shaking things up and getting into
16:22
Speaker 2: a different environment, like one of the things that like
16:24
Speaker 2: I work, I'm a hybrid. I go out there and
16:26
Speaker 2: I speak to people and i'm you know, i'm face
16:29
Speaker 2: to face, but a lot of times i'm home, you know,
16:32
Speaker 2: virtually like we are now. And you know, Amy, my
16:36
Speaker 2: wife is, you know, she's she's not living here anymore.
16:40
Speaker 2: She's over on the East Coast because we have like
16:42
Speaker 2: family issues to attend to. And I've noticed I've been
16:46
Speaker 2: stuck a lot in the house and it's like I'm
16:49
Speaker 2: trying to like force myself and I got to be creative. Okay,
16:53
Speaker 2: let me just get up pace, I'll come down, let
16:55
Speaker 2: me just double down. And I realized, you know, idiot,
17:00
Speaker 2: you've got a whole building here with all of these
17:02
Speaker 2: little nooks and all of these places like go up
17:06
Speaker 2: on the roof, like change your environment and see if
17:09
Speaker 2: that does anything. So sometimes doing the same thing in
17:13
Speaker 2: a completely different environment gives you that inward shift that
17:17
Speaker 2: you need, or sometimes external insights because you're getting all
17:20
Speaker 2: these inputs from every place else that kind of you
17:23
Speaker 2: wouldn't be getting if you just tried to double down.
17:26
Speaker 2: So something to be said for that as well.
17:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you. I'm so much more productive from
17:32
Speaker 1: six thirty to eight in the morning at the cafe
17:35
Speaker 1: than I am in my office by myself, you know, like,
17:39
Speaker 1: which seems funny, Like there's obviously I spend a lot
17:41
Speaker 1: of time in my office through the day, but it researching,
17:45
Speaker 1: but you know, UNI stuff will be at work stuff.
17:48
Speaker 1: But I'm here a lot. But it's I get up early,
17:50
Speaker 1: go for my walk, which is great, and then by
17:52
Speaker 1: the time I get there, I'm ready to caffeinate the
17:55
Speaker 1: shit out of myself and just kind of open my
17:57
Speaker 1: brain for ninety minutes to figure out what I'm going
17:59
Speaker 1: to do, create, change, think about pursue for the day.
18:03
Speaker 1: But it's funny that in that environment of really like
18:07
Speaker 1: the staff where I work. I love the staff, that
18:10
Speaker 1: the staff are great, they have beautiful energy, they're nice people.
18:14
Speaker 1: I love. You've been to the Hampton's Cafe with me,
18:17
Speaker 1: Hampton's Bakery Cafe with me many times when you hear
18:20
Speaker 1: I love the energy, I love the light, I love
18:24
Speaker 1: like it's just I like being. It's funny doing as
18:27
Speaker 1: you said, the same thing in a different environment equals
18:30
Speaker 1: a totally different experience for the doer. And it's oh,
18:33
Speaker 1: who knew that I could and you would think, if anything,
18:36
Speaker 1: you'd be less productive because of all of the distractions.
18:39
Speaker 1: But I don't know. There's just like this hum there's
18:42
Speaker 1: just like this resonance.
18:43
Speaker 2: It's almost like it's almost like people generated weite noise.
18:47
Speaker 2: I am far more creative and focused fitting in a
18:53
Speaker 2: coffee shop a cafe working than I am even in
18:58
Speaker 2: a beautiful surrounding all by myself. I feel like I'm
19:02
Speaker 2: more tuned in when I'm surrounded by people.
19:06
Speaker 1: You know what's ironic, I'm less distracted with the people
19:09
Speaker 1: around us than when I'm sitting in a fucking room
19:12
Speaker 1: by myself. In a room by myself, I'm so distracted
19:15
Speaker 1: by bullshit. But in a busy room of that you
19:18
Speaker 1: know that human white noises you so eloquently described it. Yeah,
19:22
Speaker 1: I'm I just fucking zoom in.
19:26
Speaker 2: I've spoken to managers and they're like, well, you know,
19:28
Speaker 2: if I'm this is this is one of the rationales
19:32
Speaker 2: for returning to work, which you know, I'm in the middle.
19:36
Speaker 2: I see it as pros and cons. I get very
19:38
Speaker 2: nervous when anyone has an absolute opinion on what works
19:43
Speaker 2: for everybody, regardless of any context. But I've heard managers
19:47
Speaker 2: say things like, if I'm paying an employee to work
19:51
Speaker 2: eight nine hours, I want them where I can see them.
19:54
Speaker 2: I want them in their cubicle or at their desk
19:57
Speaker 2: in their office. And in my mind, I'm going, well,
20:00
Speaker 2: what if they can get twice as much work done
20:02
Speaker 2: and be far more effective if they're sitting in a
20:06
Speaker 2: coffee shop, or if they're out in a library, or
20:09
Speaker 2: or or if they're in like a room somewhere of
20:12
Speaker 2: their house, Like why do you care? If you do,
20:15
Speaker 2: you not trust that they're going to be working. I mean,
20:17
Speaker 2: that's that's a hiring issue too. It's like, what if
20:21
Speaker 2: they're producing the outputs that you want them to produce?
20:25
Speaker 2: You know, it's like task versus output. I know one
20:27
Speaker 2: thing drives another, but it never made sense to me
20:31
Speaker 2: because I think we adapt those rules and we don't
20:33
Speaker 2: know we're adapting those rules. It's like, well, no, I
20:36
Speaker 2: have to be in this environment and I have to
20:38
Speaker 2: do this, and I have to force it, and you know,
20:41
Speaker 2: there's something to be said for that. But going back
20:44
Speaker 2: to one of my projects that you know, it just
20:49
Speaker 2: popping into my head. It was so hard for me
20:52
Speaker 2: to create an enormous amount of content and curriculums. And
20:57
Speaker 2: when I went and I sat in one of my
20:59
Speaker 2: favorite coffee shops in Southeast Asia or you know, or
21:04
Speaker 2: another coffee shop that reminded me a lot of home.
21:06
Speaker 2: It's it was originally a New York based franchise coffee
21:10
Speaker 2: shop that became a franchise that energy in that room
21:14
Speaker 2: in three hours, I can get nine hours of work done. Yeah,
21:18
Speaker 2: And I was like, wow, this is stupid. Rather than
21:21
Speaker 2: sitting here trying to squeeze water from stones, let me
21:24
Speaker 2: just go somewhere where I can turn the tap on.
21:27
Speaker 2: And I got a lot of water pressure cognitively.
21:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so interesting that I was in Queensland on
21:34
Speaker 1: Monday Tuesday, and we're recording this Thursday everyone and I
21:38
Speaker 1: was doing some work and I was up in my room,
21:40
Speaker 1: beautiful room, but it's so quiet, like just absolute total silence,
21:47
Speaker 1: which there are times when I want that, but I'm like, God,
21:53
Speaker 1: I need some I need something other than just the
21:56
Speaker 1: silence of this room. And I went down in to
22:00
Speaker 1: the main kind of for a you know, ground floor,
22:03
Speaker 1: and there's a myriad of cafes and sitting areas and
22:06
Speaker 1: beautiful lounge chairs and you know, I sat in this beautiful,
22:10
Speaker 1: big leather chair, and all around me there was just
22:13
Speaker 1: that human white noise of which you speak grasshopper. And
22:18
Speaker 1: it's so funny. I enjoyed myself so much more. I
22:24
Speaker 1: was happier, I was more productive. Yeah, I don't know
22:28
Speaker 1: what that is, but I think what is really also
22:31
Speaker 1: interesting for us is realizing trying to come to understand,
22:37
Speaker 1: like we started on the clarity, you know, conversation, but
22:40
Speaker 1: trying to get clarity about what works for you, you know,
22:44
Speaker 1: because for some people, sitting at a cafe with a
22:46
Speaker 1: computer or a phone or an iPad or whatever, trying
22:49
Speaker 1: to crank out and be creative and productive, and you
22:52
Speaker 1: know is the worst idea. Some people excel and thrive
22:56
Speaker 1: in silence. Depending on the task, I may may not write,
23:01
Speaker 1: but I think that, you know, figuring out as we
23:05
Speaker 1: talk about with everything, with training, with food, with medication,
23:08
Speaker 1: with lifestyle, with hours of sleep, with the job that
23:11
Speaker 1: you do, with the environment, trying to figure out not
23:14
Speaker 1: what's the best anything, but what's the best anything for you?
23:18
Speaker 1: You know, I'm more productive like when I It's changed
23:22
Speaker 1: over time. But when I'm studying, I like to depending
23:26
Speaker 1: on what it is that I'm reading, or trying to
23:28
Speaker 1: dissect or understand or disseminate into a file thirty to
23:34
Speaker 1: forty five minute installments. I'm pretty switched on and focused
23:40
Speaker 1: when it's academic literature. Beyond that, my brain's like a
23:44
Speaker 1: four year old. Once I hit the forty five minute
23:47
Speaker 1: mark or forty minute mark, I'm like a three year
23:49
Speaker 1: old in a candy store, you know. So it's just
23:52
Speaker 1: figuring out. And also for me knowing that, like I'm
23:57
Speaker 1: clear about, I prefer to listen and read. So if
24:02
Speaker 1: I can turn something that I would normally read into
24:06
Speaker 1: something that I can listen to while I'm out walking,
24:10
Speaker 1: I process it better. I remember it better. And if
24:15
Speaker 1: I process and remember better, I can operationalize better.
24:19
Speaker 2: You know.
24:19
Speaker 1: So it's just knowing. We've spoken before about, you know,
24:22
Speaker 1: optimal learning styles and all of that as well.
24:26
Speaker 2: I mean, and ideally it's saturating yourself with multiple learning styles.
24:30
Speaker 2: But think about somebody listening to this right now, and
24:32
Speaker 2: I've seen post on this. Listening is not reading. Reading
24:36
Speaker 2: is far more vigorous. There's almost like a morality an
24:39
Speaker 2: attribute attached to it. Meanwhile, you learn more from listening,
24:44
Speaker 2: So you're going to double down on a learning pathway
24:48
Speaker 2: that's not optimal for you. Not saying you shouldn't read,
24:53
Speaker 2: you should even if you learn from listening, but you're
24:56
Speaker 2: going to miss all of those opportunities to learn in
25:00
Speaker 2: an environment that's enjoyable for you. And you've got to
25:04
Speaker 2: love the way you approach things. I was listening to
25:07
Speaker 2: Jimmy Kaw. I love Jimmy Kaw. His just rhythm, his timing,
25:12
Speaker 2: it makes perfect and he's doing he's doing a lot
25:15
Speaker 2: of podcasts now and you get to like listen to
25:18
Speaker 2: the man behind the persona and I find him quite insightful.
25:23
Speaker 2: And he was talking about the need to I disagree
25:27
Speaker 2: with this, but he was saying, enjoy every aspect of
25:31
Speaker 2: what it is that you do, because you can't take
25:34
Speaker 2: pieces of it. You've got to take everything that comes
25:37
Speaker 2: with that choice. And I'm thinking back because he was
25:41
Speaker 2: talking about being on the road a lot, and you
25:43
Speaker 2: know that sometimes being on the road is not glamorous
25:46
Speaker 2: and it really sucks. I'm talking about sucks to the
25:51
Speaker 2: deepest degree. Something could suck to where I'm looking back
25:55
Speaker 2: a few of my road shows and yeah, there's like
25:58
Speaker 2: the five star hotels and there's the resorts in the
26:00
Speaker 2: convention centers, and that's great. But then there's I landed
26:05
Speaker 2: in a certain place and now I'm driving for fifty
26:09
Speaker 2: minutes in a rental car to the middle of nowhere.
26:12
Speaker 2: And I literally I've had hotels across the motorway from
26:18
Speaker 2: a cornfield in the middle of the winter. And the
26:22
Speaker 2: second I checked into this shite hotel, the first thing
26:26
Speaker 2: they told me is, oh, we have no other rooms available.
26:30
Speaker 2: In your room, the heat's not working. Well, it's seventy
26:35
Speaker 2: thousand degrees below zero. Like it's literally I think it's
26:40
Speaker 2: warmer on planet Neptune than it is out there, And like, oh,
26:44
Speaker 2: we've got this little space heater and you're sitting there
26:47
Speaker 2: shivering next to a space heater in a bed, smelling
26:51
Speaker 2: a room that reeks of mold and like drapes that
26:55
Speaker 2: haven't been cleaned since nineteen twenty three. That sucks, and
27:00
Speaker 2: that's not enjoyable. But to Jimmy CON's point, I loved
27:04
Speaker 2: it all. Like did I enjoy driving out to the
27:08
Speaker 2: middle of nowhere? Nah, not at all. I didn't enjoy
27:12
Speaker 2: so many But did I love it? Yeah? I loved it.
27:15
Speaker 2: And sometimes I loved walking across the motorway to a
27:19
Speaker 2: petrol station and buying a soggy sandwich because there's nothing else,
27:25
Speaker 2: and it's like, guess what, that's what you're eating tonight.
27:28
Speaker 2: I loved every piece of it, and I think you
27:31
Speaker 2: got to restress.
27:32
Speaker 1: What a lot of that stuff for some people in
27:35
Speaker 1: the world would be a fucking luxury, right.
27:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean if we're talking about relativism, absolutely,
27:43
Speaker 2: and there was that. It's like, I'm going through all
27:46
Speaker 2: this and you know, most planes, like, I don't know
27:49
Speaker 2: why we can't get domestic travel, right, It seems like
27:52
Speaker 2: when you're traveling internationally, things work so much smoother and
27:55
Speaker 2: it's easier than traveling inside of your own country. But
28:01
Speaker 2: all of those headaches. It's like, yeah, but I'm going
28:03
Speaker 2: to do something that I chose to do that I love.
28:06
Speaker 2: But within that, one of the things that I learned
28:09
Speaker 2: is you don't have a stable environment when you're out
28:11
Speaker 2: on the road, so you have to make the best
28:13
Speaker 2: of it. You have to take a look around and
28:15
Speaker 2: go where like if I'm here for three days and
28:18
Speaker 2: I'm only working two of them, but I still got
28:20
Speaker 2: projects I got to work the third how do I
28:23
Speaker 2: use this new novel environment to kind of energize me
28:27
Speaker 2: and engage me. And that's how I started learning about
28:30
Speaker 2: breaking up your day. And what that does for me
28:34
Speaker 2: is you've got to get from one place to another.
28:37
Speaker 2: I've been so effective just going you know what, Today,
28:40
Speaker 2: I'm going to work at three different coffee shops, and
28:42
Speaker 2: that's going to give me a full day of productivity.
28:45
Speaker 2: Walking from one coffee shop to the next gave me
28:49
Speaker 2: a chance to completely disengage and not focus and let
28:53
Speaker 2: my mind wander, you know, use my default mode network
28:56
Speaker 2: to kind of organize and make sense of everything else
28:59
Speaker 2: I was doing and learning. Then when I sat down,
29:02
Speaker 2: that break made me so much more effective at my
29:04
Speaker 2: next whatever, like Maine a minute, two hour about in
29:08
Speaker 2: the next coffee shop. So like that?
29:13
Speaker 1: Do I recall accurately you and I being in London
29:20
Speaker 1: twenty years ago doing some work for PT on the
29:24
Speaker 1: net where we were doing a series of lectures for
29:28
Speaker 1: I think it was Holme's Place and Virgin Fitness or
29:31
Speaker 1: one or the other chains of gyms, and it might
29:36
Speaker 1: have been me and Body. It was either me and
29:38
Speaker 1: body or me and you, and we stayed in this
29:41
Speaker 1: fucking butthole of a of a hotel. It sounds like
29:48
Speaker 1: the one you were describing in the middle of nowhere,
29:52
Speaker 1: And it was also was that me and you or
29:54
Speaker 1: was that me and someone else? Because you and I
29:57
Speaker 1: have presented over.
29:58
Speaker 2: So no, it may have been me and you. You know,
30:00
Speaker 2: it's interesting, as I was talking about going from one
30:02
Speaker 2: coffee shop to the next, you popped into my mind.
30:06
Speaker 2: But it was if maybe it's just we've done so
30:09
Speaker 2: many events. It was Butler's Wharf definitely not a shithole,
30:13
Speaker 2: amazing part of London. But I imagine me and you
30:18
Speaker 2: at Nero's Cafe get some work done together in Butler's Wharf, Yeah, right,
30:24
Speaker 2: And I think I was like, yeah, I was thinking
30:26
Speaker 2: about that.
30:27
Speaker 1: I think you and I did. I think we did
30:30
Speaker 1: ten gigs in ten days at ten different gyms or
30:33
Speaker 1: something like that. Anyway, we've got to wind up. But
30:35
Speaker 1: before we do, I want to hit the brakes on
30:39
Speaker 1: all of that insight around, you know, clarity and so on,
30:43
Speaker 1: and just backtrack to something that you said about grit.
30:48
Speaker 1: Was that lady's name again, Angela Duckworth. So tell me
30:55
Speaker 1: in the best Bobby understanding and use a friendly language
31:00
Speaker 1: about the difference or connection and or similarity or dissimilarity.
31:07
Speaker 1: He's very good. By the way, everyone this is completely
31:10
Speaker 1: questioned without notice, the intersection of grit and or tenacity
31:17
Speaker 1: and or resilience. How are they like? Do you see
31:21
Speaker 1: any real difference between those? If so, what is the difference?
31:25
Speaker 1: What is the similarity? So the three terms are grits, tenacity, resilience.
31:31
Speaker 1: They all kind Are they first cousins in this space?
31:34
Speaker 2: I think they're all interconnected and mutually reinforcing, but I
31:38
Speaker 2: believe they're a little bit distinct from one another. I
31:42
Speaker 2: believe grit is finding the fortitude and the mental discipline
31:47
Speaker 2: to sit down and do something that you might not
31:50
Speaker 2: want to do. So I want to do something else
31:53
Speaker 2: in the moment, but I'm going to have the grit
31:55
Speaker 2: to push through that and do it needs to be
31:57
Speaker 2: done what's necessary, rather than where my distract take me.
32:01
Speaker 2: I believe tenacity is what happens when you do that
32:04
Speaker 2: in a way that's sustainable and consistent. But resilience is
32:08
Speaker 2: what happens when you start to balance continual tenacity with
32:14
Speaker 2: self awareness and modulation in your life. Resilience is about adaptability.
32:19
Speaker 2: I don't think it's about putting your head down and
32:22
Speaker 2: grinding through. As a matter of fact, sometimes resilience is
32:26
Speaker 2: knowing when to put the accelerator all the way down
32:30
Speaker 2: and when to hit the brakes, get out of the
32:32
Speaker 2: car and go for a walk in a field and
32:35
Speaker 2: just chill out for a little bit. I think that
32:38
Speaker 2: people confuse resilience and use words interchangeably. Resilience is not
32:44
Speaker 2: always about grit. Like if you think about burnout, grit
32:48
Speaker 2: will make you less resilient in that situation, where in
32:52
Speaker 2: other situations grit is the thing you need to engage
32:55
Speaker 2: in to get yourself into a state of flow where
32:57
Speaker 2: you are performing optimally in your enjoying the process. Like
33:02
Speaker 2: after the fact, you probably if you're enjoying it that much,
33:04
Speaker 2: you probably disappear once you're fully engaged in it. But
33:08
Speaker 2: one is a pathway into another state.
33:12
Speaker 1: I feel like that's when hubanman e l talk about
33:17
Speaker 1: the anterior mid singulate cortex, you know how how that
33:20
Speaker 1: bit of the brain that expands when we do shit
33:23
Speaker 1: that we don't want to do but we need to do.
33:26
Speaker 1: I think that's that's tied into grit as well, Like
33:30
Speaker 1: there's that bit of the brain that actually grows or
33:32
Speaker 1: develops new neurons when you there's something that you know
33:37
Speaker 1: you should do, but in the moment don't want to do,
33:39
Speaker 1: but nonetheless do it anyway.
33:43
Speaker 2: You know that. It's almost like if if you have
33:47
Speaker 2: that knowledge, because that's true about most things, right, if
33:50
Speaker 2: you do something continually and you do it with focus, yeah,
33:58
Speaker 2: you'll get better at it. So if we take out
34:03
Speaker 2: all of the emotion, which I know is very hard
34:06
Speaker 2: to do, but we take out all the conversation, because
34:09
Speaker 2: I think what stops us a lot. It's not laziness,
34:12
Speaker 2: like every one of us has shown that we're not
34:16
Speaker 2: lazy in certain areas. I think it's the conversation. I
34:19
Speaker 2: think one it's the distractions too. It's like, oh my god,
34:23
Speaker 2: I don't want to do this, this is going to suck.
34:26
Speaker 2: Is this even going to be Is this even going
34:29
Speaker 2: to be good? Am I gonna be able to do it?
34:31
Speaker 2: Just stop that, Just do it, do it poorly, like
34:35
Speaker 2: do a shit job at something at first, because after
34:39
Speaker 2: about after about seven to ten minutes, you start now
34:43
Speaker 2: that you're in it and you're becoming more engaged, then
34:47
Speaker 2: you could start to pay attention to sensations. What am
34:51
Speaker 2: I liking about this? What is enjoyable about this what
34:54
Speaker 2: am I curious about? I think sometimes the antidote for
34:58
Speaker 2: so many things in our life. And I'm learning this
35:00
Speaker 2: through a one year coaching course I'm on with an
35:02
Speaker 2: amazing group of people. It's about curiosity. Curiosity is truly
35:07
Speaker 2: the antidote for so many things we bump up against
35:11
Speaker 2: in our daily lives.
35:13
Speaker 1: I was sitting here as you're talking. I always, as
35:17
Speaker 1: you probably do with your podcast, I start to, towards
35:21
Speaker 1: the end, think about, while still listening to you and
35:24
Speaker 1: being fully engaged, of course, I think about, Of course,
35:27
Speaker 1: of course, I think what am I going to call
35:29
Speaker 1: this episode? And I just wrote down getting clear, and
35:33
Speaker 1: I'm like, what's that? I go scientology, I'm like, isn't
35:37
Speaker 1: that the process that? Don't they have that? That that
35:42
Speaker 1: label for a name for a process that they go
35:44
Speaker 1: through of getting clear, getting rid of all the thetans
35:49
Speaker 1: or whatever it is.
35:51
Speaker 2: Well, you don't want too many thetans around. I don't know,
35:55
Speaker 2: I don't know what. I don't know what. I don't
35:57
Speaker 2: know what thetans are, but just the sound of it
36:00
Speaker 2: sounds like something I want in my life.
36:02
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I know that that's something they
36:04
Speaker 1: talk Maybe it's like some you know l Ron Hubbard
36:08
Speaker 1: who created it, as you know better than I do, probably,
36:10
Speaker 1: but it's such an interesting But there's actually a movie
36:14
Speaker 1: about scientology called Getting Clear, and I think that's one
36:18
Speaker 1: of their kind of steps or one of their rituals
36:20
Speaker 1: or processes that they Anyway, we're digressing, Bobby, it's been
36:24
Speaker 1: bloody terrific. Tell people how they can connect with you.
36:27
Speaker 1: Where you live, your home address, your personal phone number
36:30
Speaker 1: because we know you lonely, and what times you are
36:33
Speaker 1: actually on the roof of the building if you would, Well, I'm.
36:37
Speaker 2: On the roof at all random times, which right now
36:40
Speaker 2: they say that out loud. There's a lot of problems
36:42
Speaker 2: with that statement. But to connect with me for ee,
36:45
Speaker 2: comp and.
36:46
Speaker 1: Tell me about the binoculars that you take up there.
36:48
Speaker 1: What's that about?
36:50
Speaker 2: Oh I was, I was thinking about something more and morbid.
36:53
Speaker 2: That's just like really creepy, Like I hope, I'm glad
36:56
Speaker 2: this guy's not my neighbor. Nope, I'm up there without
36:58
Speaker 2: any binocles. And you know, at my age, I can
37:01
Speaker 2: hardly see three feet in front of me. I just
37:04
Speaker 2: you know, my work day is different day to day anyway,
37:06
Speaker 2: I know that's more information than you're actually asking for.
37:09
Speaker 2: So basically, you can contact me at Robertcapuccio dot com
37:17
Speaker 2: for a completely Thetan free experience. You can find me
37:22
Speaker 2: at the self help antidote dot com. Uh, we've been
37:25
Speaker 2: we've been Thetan free for a while. It's it's one
37:27
Speaker 2: of our core values. And you know you can find
37:30
Speaker 2: me on LinkedIn same ridiculous things.
37:34
Speaker 1: I'm trying to open up. I've got the world's slowest Internet.
37:37
Speaker 1: I'm trying to open up. Hang on, just before we go, what.
37:42
Speaker 2: Is just get off dial up?
37:44
Speaker 1: Dude, what is it? What is it? Is it in?
37:48
Speaker 2: Yeah?
37:49
Speaker 1: What is a Thetan?
37:50
Speaker 2: Hang on? Here we go.
37:51
Speaker 1: A thetan is a concept from scientology, essentially their version
37:55
Speaker 1: of a soul. Okay, I knew nothing. It's their version
37:59
Speaker 1: of a solo te self, the immortal spiritual being that
38:02
Speaker 1: each person really is. Okay, we're all Thetans trapped in
38:06
Speaker 1: humans bodies. El Ron Hubbard said, you don't have a Thetan,
38:10
Speaker 1: you are a Thetan.
38:11
Speaker 2: And I just said I wanted to get rid of
38:13
Speaker 2: all thetans.
38:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you soul, you soul.
38:17
Speaker 2: This podcaster, well.
38:20
Speaker 1: We just you and I just learned what a Thetan
38:22
Speaker 1: is clearly I didn't fucking.
38:24
Speaker 2: Know, and this is a This is a very educational episode.
38:27
Speaker 2: I feel like my knowledge base is expanding. I'm going
38:30
Speaker 2: to go share this next time. I'm going to bit
38:32
Speaker 2: this into conversation somewhere somehow.
38:36
Speaker 1: I want you to say, to at least two people
38:37
Speaker 1: in the next week, Hello Thetan, And if you don't
38:41
Speaker 1: know what that is, look it up. Hey mate, say
38:44
Speaker 1: goodbye for here. It's been good.
38:45
Speaker 2: Thanks again, Thank you everybody. Thanks Hops,