Latest / Adult Child of Dysfunction / E 361: How Childhood Trauma Became Autoimmune Disease with Holly Haag

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E 361: How Childhood Trauma Became Autoimmune Disease with Holly Haag · Adult Child of Dysfunction

• 0:00
  hello everybody.
• 0:00
  Welcome back to another episode of Adult Child of Dysfunction.
• 0:03
  Today we have with us Holly.
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  Haag.
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  She's a holistic health coach with a focus on autoimmunity.
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  She has to face her own multiple autoimmune disease, so she took that knowledge, learned to help others and get their health back.
• 0:16
  Welcome Holly.
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  I am super excited to talk about this because like I was saying right before we got on here, when you go through that childhood trauma which is everybody I deal with, it affects not just your mind but it
• 0:27
  affects your body.
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  And you are living proof of that.
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  So let's jump right in.
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  How are you today?
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  Great.
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  Thank you for having me.
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  I appreciate what you do and having a voice for people like me because for many years I didn't have a voice at all.
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  Thank you for doing what you do.
• 0:45
  Oh, you're very welcome.
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  So you, I read, I...
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  It's not just even in your bio but I was reading later on in something that you wrote that you grew up sounds very much like me with the...
• 0:57
  talk a little bit about your childhood just so people can get a background of what you went through when you were younger.
• 1:03
  Sure.
• 1:04
  So I'm the third generation in my family to be diagnosed with multiple sclerosis.
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  My mother would be the second.
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  And she was diagnosed when I was three years old.
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  So that in itself was very traumatizing for me 'cause even though I didn't understand the concept of death, I thought she was dying 'cause she was very sick.
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  And so my father had to take more care of, do more of the things to care for me during that moment.
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  And my, my grandmother, which was my saving grace in the story, she had to step in and so she did.
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  She, I always referred to her as a second mom because she was such a big part of my life.
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  But during that time my father started molesting me, started, He was verbally abusive, physically abusive.
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  And fortunately he was a truck driver so he was not always there.
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  He worked nights a lot, so he'd go from working nights to working mornings.
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  So I didn't have to deal with him all the time which helped me too, but when I did it was a scary place to be.
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  And because I was an only child I didn't know.
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  I didn't know that what was happening wasn't supposed to happen.
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  It just, I internalized the fear that this is scary.
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  Oftentimes I'd play in my closet because there were walls behind me 'cause it felt safe.
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  So it was a scary situation despite I think people have a hard time understanding that you didn't know you were being abused.
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  Especially back then.
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  Like back then there wasn't social media.
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  I had Oregon Trails eventually.
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  There...
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  We didn't even have computers.
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  Eventually we got to, I think, junior high, maybe high school, we had Oregon Trails.
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  I don't even remember what age it was.
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  But, that was the extent of what we got.
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  Now you have a computer in your hand every day.
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  So it's hard to take somebody in today's world and place them in the times that I was in.
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  But there just was not a lot of awareness around sexual abuse.
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  And back then you also, especially, like specifically in my family, you stayed quiet.
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  You didn't talk about it.
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  It was not...
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  So there was no, there's no awareness.
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  None.
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  And- how old were you when it started?
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  I was...
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  so EMDR, it happened sooner, but my first actual solid memory, I was three.
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  Oh, wow.
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  I was three years old.
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  So my, the first memory of my father giving me a shower is when I just playfully grabbed, like I'd never seen up close in my mind his genitalia, and I just "Oh, what's that?"
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  Just playfully.
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  And he was a tit for tat person.
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  So he had injured his hand.
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  He used to work for the Alaska P- Pipelines, and so they were almost like a Captain Hook.
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  They were crooked fingers 'cause that's how they healed.
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  And so he just took them and shoved them up inside me.
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  Wow.
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  And that's my very first memory.
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  And then I did tell my mother, but now having children myself, I don't know how realistically I translated that at age three and how it was heard or received.
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  But as a parent, I would have also then been In the back of my mind, huh.
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  That's whatever I had, I'd verbalized.
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  I don't remember the exact words.
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  But I did he put the, his fingers- and then, and h- his defense was that he must have just scratched me, like, when he was washing me.
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  So it w- that was how he was, though.
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  They, my parents, they're both very intelligent, so he was i- really able to s- to sell the, the, the lie, you know, that everybody else is dysfunctional.
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  Not him.
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  You were three years old.
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  I was three.
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  Like- Yeah anything he said that he was going to be able to find a way to out-manipulate you.
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  You were three.
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  Oh, yeah.
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  Yeah, I was three.
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  There wasn't- Yeah there, you didn't have much of a, a ground to stand on when it came to having the say and the That's crazy.
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  And your mom, she just just bought into it and went on, so of course you felt 100% unsafe.
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  Did your grandma know?
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  Or what, at what age did you tell your grandmother?
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  So I don't remember ever saying anything to her- even though she was my safe person.
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  So it wasn't until I was 12 that I had a name for it, and I know that sounds ridiculously old to not understand what's happening to you, but I didn't.
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  I had no, my mom was the helicopter mom.
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  My family came from generational trauma, so it wasn't anything new to any of them.
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  Which- W- in one sense you think would give you a more of an awareness that it's happening, but it also gives you sort of a blind spot because you're used to it.
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  Definitively I don't know that my mother knew, I don't know that my grandmother knew, but I'm positive they did.
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  Just because of, one, my third grade teacher had reported something.
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  I don't even know what.
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  So I was I thought it just, I had trouble reading when I was little, so I thought it was for that, but I was tested.
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  I went to a psychologist off the school campus, and they had to d- go do a report.
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  And so my aunt found that report when my grandmother passed away, and apparently my grandmother also took notes.
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  So she, every day she had a diary.
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  Oh, wow.
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  And so my aunt came to me before she died, and she had told me, "Hey Holly, I think they knew."
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  And I'm like, "I do, too."
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  And my mother, she was really good at manipulating things.
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  So I thought my mom loved me so much and I was so special to her until I realized as an adult she was manipulating the whole thing.
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  She was such a great, masterful manipulator.
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  So she would always get drawn into, she'd have a book cover and she'd always be reading these romance novels, yet she had no romance in her life.
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  None.
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  The, the actual idea of intimacy for her was scary.
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  It was unattainable.
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  She didn't actually physically want it, but she desired it in her books.
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  And then really she used me, because I was the one that was intimate with her husband, right?
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  So I replaced that uncomfortable part that she didn't wanna do.
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  And I have to believe at this point it was on purpose.
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  There was one argument that my grandmother and her had at my grandmother's house saying, "I'm not raising another child."
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  I think my, my mom maybe tried to leave or was looking for a different option.
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  But I, it always stuck with me.
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  It always stuck with me, because I was like what is she talking about raising another child?"
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  I didn't understand.
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  And my mom was crying.
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  I, we stayed there for a couple weeks on a pulled-out futon bed that my grandmother every morning made us make, like you had to fold it up to make s- make it look like nobody was there.
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  So those always stuck with me.
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  And- and in EMDR they knew.
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  Like, when I did EMDR, they knew.
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  And it was y- they both had gone through trauma themselves, and I don't know their full story 'cause they were quiet about it, right?
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  But I know it happened.
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  So it's just, it's sorta tragic that They didn't feel safe enough to get the help to have that self-worth to fix themselves a- and then not to do it for your child.
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  I mean- Because- Yeah, and that's exactly why generational trauma exists.
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  But I feel like- Yeah we're in a different world now.
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  I don't know how old you are.
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  Yeah.
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  How old are you?
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  If you don't mind.
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  I'm 44.
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  Okay.
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  44.
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  I, I have, I don't care about that stuff.
• 9:23
  Yeah, no.
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  So I'm- Ask away.
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  I'm 57, and it was the same thing.
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  It was, my mother was a child psychiatrist.
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  Oh.
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  So you talk about being manipulated by the best.
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  Oh, yeah.
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  She was also an alcoholic and a drug addict, and her father was a psychiatrist.
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  And when she started cutting at 13 and was bulimic, he sent her to boarding school for four years and said, "Come back when you're well."
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  Obviously you don't come back after being kicked out of your house when you have so- you know, mental health issues.
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  So it's just, it's just a, it's a cycle of tragedy is really what it was.
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  But I like to think that now it's like now there's so many cycle breakers because now- Yeah there is the internet, there is computers, there are- Yeah All this social media.
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  We see we hear something on TikTok and we're like, "Whoa, that's me."
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  Yeah.
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  That's how half my clients come to me is from a podcast where I say one little thing and they're like, "Whoa, I felt like you were in my brain."
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  We didn't have that when we were younger.
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  No.
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  And so our parents most certainly did not have that.
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  No.
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  No.
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  So it's a whole different...
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  I remember the day that I went through so much inner child work and healing my inner child and doing all that stuff, and then it was like one day all of a sudden my therapist was like, "Can we
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  try something different?"
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  And I'm like, "Yeah."
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  "Can we flip it?
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  Even though you were your mother's caregiver and you did hold her head back and hold her hair back while she was vomiting into the toilet, can we flip it and try to look at her as the wounded child?"
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  Yeah.
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  And I was like, "Whoa," "Blah."
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  That was my initial- Yeah reaction.
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  But it wasn't until I could look at her and the trauma that she had been through that I was like 180, all of a sudden it was like, wow, it wasn't any of her fault.
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  No.
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  It wa- it just wasn't, and that was a, whoa, that was eye-opening.
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  But what I wanna jump in, 'cause I'm sorry you went through all that, it sounds- Yeah shitty.
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  That's all right.
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  To say the least.
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  But I wanna jump into the mind-body and just, you said you were the third generation MS.
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  Yeah.
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  Now, multiple sclerosis, I know.
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  I've always been with the understanding once I started healing my own issues was that mind-body connection, thought, eating habits can overcome heredity any day.
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  What do you think about that?
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  Genetics have to be expressed.
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  So I studied everything because I knew there was a genetic link.
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  I skipped my grandmother, but she had many strokes and she ultimately died of a massive stroke, and so she fits into that equation as well.
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  She more than likely had rheumatoid arthritis, whether sh- whether she told me about it or not.
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  That's the thing with her, she, her lips were sealed.
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  You didn't know.
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  You didn't know what was going on but genetics always play a role.
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  S- they always play a role.
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  So you're expressing your genetics, and what has to happen for that is stress.
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  Some sort of stress, whether it's a physical stress, whether it's an emotional stress that has to happen for those genetics to express.
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  So that's your environment.
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  That might be childbirth.
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  It might be...
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  A lot of women it is childbirth, actually.
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  It's such a great stress on the body, and that's ultimately when the majority of my symptoms expressed was after I had my first child.
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  You're depleted of nutrients.
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  So there's so much going on.
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  It's a the, the vagus nerve, right?
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  Where it's getting, like, when you have a baby especially "Hey, something's wrong."
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  And then if you're already...
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  Say you go into that pregnancy and you're depleted and you're toxic and your body is all full of heavy metals and now microplastics, and it's just not healthy.
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  So you're going in as this- Not really a whole person, and then you're coming out, you're depleted 'cause the baby's taking from you.
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  If you're breastfeeding, you're gonna be depleted even more.
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  And so it's just this cascade.
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  And we think, "Oh, where did this come from?"
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  For my family, we expressed genetics.
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  So we have the celiac gene.
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  We have MTHFR.
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  We don't methylate well.
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  APOE4, Alzheimer's, that's the bad four alleles in the brain.
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  So we're not processing saturated fats well.
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  So there's a- the genetics, you cannot remove genetics as much as functional med- medicine tries.
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  And I'm part of functional medicine, but I disagree that we don't pay attention to our genetics.
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  It's the blueprint of who we are.
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  But that emotional part of...
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  that we don't deal with, that part that we try to ignore and package up and "I'm fine.
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  I'm fine."
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  I said I was fine until I had my child.
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  That's when I broke.
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  Like completely broke.
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  Like completely numb, completely y- unable to human, is what I would say.
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  So basic needs, showering, making food, like I...
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  brushing your teeth.
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  I was unable to do basic needs for myself.
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  I was able to care for my son as much as I could, and that was it.
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  My body completely shut down when I had him because he was a twin.
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  He was born sick.
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  I had hyperemesis gravidarum.
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  I had pre-term labor.
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  It...
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  the worst f- if you could think of the worst first pregnancy scenario, I had it.
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  It was horrific.
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  It took an emotional toll.
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  It took a physical toll.
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  And so I had him, and I realized it took that, all of that I need to change.
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  I need to be better.
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  I am responsible...
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  It was the first time I realized I was responsible for something other than myself.
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  I really had never...
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  I'd been so selfish before, 'cause it was all about me.
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  It was all about me, and my husband better be doing, like, all the things.
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  Oh I'm awesome, so why aren't you treating me better?
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  Why aren't you...
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  and then I realized too, I picked a husband that's not very good, I realized that right away after my son was born, and I'm like, "Okay how does this work?"
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  So that sort of crumbled and fell apart because I realized how dysfunctional my life was, and the choices I had made, and why I had make, made them.
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  I had all these answers of...
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  or not answers, but questions as to, like, how did I get here, how did I get here?
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  Why, what i- what is happening right now?
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  I already went through all this crap.
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  Why d- why isn't it over?
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  Why isn't it over?
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  Why is this happening to me?
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  That's how I initially took that, and so I had to do therapy.
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  I ha- I did EMDR.
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  I did 15 years of therapy, and therapy was good in the sense that I got to verbalize it.
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  I got to talk with somebody that was safe, that gave me tools so I could handle my stress, because I had none before.
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  I had no ability to handle stress, because nobody had given me anything other than dysfunctional ways to handle stress.
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  And I ha- I wasn't really super dysfunctional on paper.
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  I, I went to dental school.
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  I had a good job.
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  I I bought my first house at 22.
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  I had nicer cars, for my age.
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  I didn't look like a hot mess, but I felt like one inside.
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  I think my marriage would eventually show that, that was crumbling.
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  That was eventually gonna show the dysfunction, the cracks, so to speak.
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  And even after all that therapy, here I get diagnosed with MS at 38.
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  I have my new marriage.
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  I'm thinking gosh what like, I have to do more, i'm not done?
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  My, my big pile of crap isn't over?
• 17:32
  What else do I have to work through?
• 17:35
  And I think that's the part that needs to really be understood is- There's so many layers to abuse and to healing that there is no set end point.
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  And I realize that now.
• 17:56
  There's still not an end point, right?
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  So I started to do, like you s- you suggested, inner child work.
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  I started to view my self and l- I literally would go to the park and go for walks and pretend to hold her hand and say, "Do you wanna go with me?"
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  And I...
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  And here's the other truth.
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  I went a lot of my life, a lot of my life not trusting myself, because I couldn't protect myself.
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  Couldn't protect myself as a child.
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  I blamed myself as an adult that I wasn't safe.
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  Wasn't able...
• 18:31
  I always compare myself to Runaway Bride, 'cause what eggs do I like?
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  I would s- sit in front of a rack of clothes and go, "What color?"
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  Because I didn't know myself.
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  No.
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  It, I did not, and I was so separated.
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  And so I had to get to know myself.
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  I had to love myself.
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  I had to become my safe person.
• 18:52
  I had to, just like you mentioned, I, one of my core values, I figured out my core values, and one of my core values is compassion.
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  And so when I was able to see my mother as the broken person, the the little girl that never grew up.
• 19:10
  She was in an adult body but a child inside, and she acted like a child inside.
• 19:16
  Y- some of the arguments we were getting into, I felt more of an adult than she, she was when I was a teenager, and I'm like, "Why is she treating me like this?"
• 19:24
  Because she wasn't an adult inside.
• 19:26
  Absolutely.
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  And so I, when I saw them for what they were and who they were and where they were stuck and stunted, it allowed me to heal a part of me that was unable to heal be- at that point.
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  And when my mo- mother passed away, there was...
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  Here I thought I'd, I'm done.
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  I did all the work.
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  I did, I've done the energy healing.
• 19:51
  I've done the inner child healing.
• 19:53
  I've done all this stuff, and then she passed away, and there was another layer.
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  Here was all of this guarded trauma that I had to have the armor up in order to have the relationship.
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  Because I kept the relationship because she's sick.
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  She has MS.
• 20:14
  I was told by my grandparents, both sides.
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  My grandparents were divorced.
• 20:19
  "It's your job, Holly.
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  You're the only child.
• 20:21
  It's your responsibility."
• 20:23
  Here my grandfather's a millionaire, and he's telling me that I need to take care of his kid, and he doesn't take...
• 20:30
  he maybe the whole time that when my parents got divorced, he bought us a toilet.
• 20:34
  Here's this guy calling me up.
• 20:37
  Here I, what I'm working at Blockbuster, and i- it's your responsibility making $7 and 10 cents an hour to take care of your mother.
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  And- Oh, my gosh.
• 20:46
  That reminds me.
• 20:47
  That's so crazy 'cause my grandfather, who was my mother's mother or my mother's father, same thing.
• 20:52
  He literally...
• 20:53
  I was living with her for a while, and it was the most dysfunctional environment ever.
• 20:57
  Yeah.
• 20:57
  We were living in someone's garage.
• 20:59
  She was lending me to her drug dealers to pay her debt.
• 21:03
  There was no food in the house and he was sending her $10,000 a month.
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  And I was like She's not feeding me.
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  I'm literally walking to the grocery store.
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  So he t- completely enabling her to just snort everything she could get up her nose.
• 21:20
  I was like, "Are you kidding me?"
• 21:21
  Yeah.
• 21:22
  But he's like she's your responsibility.
• 21:23
  You're there with her."
• 21:24
  I was like, I was 16 and starving to death.
• 21:28
  Yeah.
• 21:28
  Cut me some slack, man.
• 21:31
  Yeah.
• 21:31
  And that...
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  So my mom, it was always about her MS and her nervous system, not ever worrying about anybody else's.
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  And so when I was a child, I oftentimes would go unfed, and so I would climb the ca- the cabinet and then there was a counter right behind, so if I fell, I could have seriously been hurt.
• 21:49
  But I'd climb 'cause I knew my dad kept candy up there.
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  So you know, what does the kid go to?
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  They go to the candy.
• 21:55
  And one time I went...
• 21:56
  I, my mom, she would, if you didn't like what she liked, sh- you could not like things she thought were gross.
• 22:05
  And so one day I'd gone into the fridge to get ranch dressing, and I just was eating the ranch from the bottle because I was that young and that was food, because she was either sleeping on the bed
• 22:17
  or engulfed in her romance novel, and wasn't...
• 22:20
  I was just this little kid by myself r- in the house.
• 22:24
  Yeah.
• 22:24
  And she got enraged.
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  Enraged.
• 22:28
  I never liked ranch again after that because she came out screaming and yelling how gross I was, how "How dare I get into that.
• 22:38
  That's disgusting.
• 22:40
  You'll never eat that again."
• 22:41
  And I never did.
• 22:42
  But it's funny that every food she didn't like was white.
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  Ranch, butter.
• 22:49
  So you say, "Oh I don't know her story completely."
• 22:52
  You sorta do.
• 22:54
  Y- you sorta do, 'cause it's okay you obviously were molested.
• 22:59
  You obviously...
• 23:00
  and the stories I do know of my grandfather, of my grandmother's father, he was an alcoholic.
• 23:09
  My aunt in, in her last year, opened up to me that possibly, through her therapy, that something had happened with the grandfather there.
• 23:21
  And so you can see the line of abuse- that, that just unfolds, and it's like it's not a coincidence you don't like foods that are white.
• 23:33
  So it...
• 23:35
  I had to be the detective in my family too, so I had to want to heal enough to dig and find out their stories as much as I could.
• 23:45
  You do.
• 23:45
  And- Of course you do.
• 23:46
  Yeah.
• 23:46
  So because you're not gonna under- fully understand what- Yeah you're going through unless you fully understand where they came from.
• 23:52
  Yeah.
• 23:52
  Honestly.
• 23:53
  Yeah.
• 23:54
  And it- That makes 100% sense.
• 23:56
  Yeah.
• 23:56
  And it...
• 23:56
  it's heartbreaking.
• 23:57
  It really is.
• 23:58
  It's heartbreaking.
• 23:59
  It's it's tragic, but at what point does it end?
• 24:03
  At what point- But it's- Somebody has to stop it.
• 24:06
  A- absolutely, and that's why we're here today, because you have the story of the hope and the healing and all of the- Yeah good stuff and moving forward.
• 24:13
  I'm gonna jump back in into the physical stuff- Sure because I'm fascinated with you healing your own body.
• 24:21
  Yeah.
• 24:22
  So first of all, let's talk about how you think you g- didn't get MS until you were 38, you said, right?
• 24:28
  And you said it was kinda...
• 24:29
  it's triggered by the baby, and all of this stuff is triggered.
• 24:32
  Did you not have any physical symptoms of anything before that from trauma?
• 24:38
  No.
• 24:38
  So I had signs as a child that there was something off just 'cause I'd have itchy throat, sinus issues.
• 24:48
  So there was signs there that something was off.
• 24:51
  19, I ate a pack of...
• 24:54
  I got a, a box of fruit snacks that I had eaten when I was a child, and I ate one pack, and here I'm blonde, extremely good shape.
• 25:03
  I used to be a high-performance athlete.
• 25:07
  Tan.
• 25:08
  I look like the picture of health.
• 25:12
  I, my blood sugar crashed so bad I had to take a four-hour nap.
• 25:16
  I woke up and my, internally my body was shaking so bad.
• 25:21
  I thought...
• 25:21
  I went to my mom, I'm like, "Mom, am I shaking?"
• 25:25
  Couldn't see it, but it felt like somebody was just violently shaking me inside.
• 25:30
  And so I went to the doctor thinking, "Oh, maybe I have diabetes.
• 25:34
  Maybe I, what could this be?"
• 25:36
  "Nope, everything's fine.
• 25:37
  You're fine."
• 25:38
  And then I wouldn't really have major symptoms.
• 25:41
  I started to have constipation issues.
• 25:44
  I had an eating disorder at age 13, 'cause that's the only thing I could choose to do, 'cause my mom had moved in my boyfriend.
• 25:51
  So I was in this, not on paper, but an, basically an arranged marriage without the marriage.
• 25:58
  Because she had to keep me in the abuse.
• 26:00
  Got divorced, my father's not there, but we gotta keep Holly, gotta keep her working, I don't even know what else to call it.
• 26:08
  Which I cared for my boyfriend, but I didn't wanna live with him.
• 26:10
  I didn't wanna, be forced to have sex and- I don't mean to interrupt isolated from my kids.
• 26:14
  I don't mean to interrupt you, but I'm like, your story just keeps going down these things, and I'm like, you got so many layers, girl.
• 26:20
  Of course.
• 26:20
  You'll never have them unpacked.
• 26:21
  But, not all of them.
• 26:24
  Of course.
• 26:24
  But that's okay.
• 26:25
  So- Because it's okay.
• 26:27
  Yeah.
• 26:28
  The, so the physical part there was so much to that.
• 26:32
  So t- 24, literally a week after my 24th birthday, I deliver my son.
• 26:39
  And that's when the issues started, and I kept asking to be tested for MS.
• 26:45
  I suspected it 20 years before I got it.
• 26:48
  So they wouldn't test me.
• 26:51
  They would not...
• 26:51
  Oh, there's no neurological symptoms.
• 26:53
  But bladder issues came, vision in and out.
• 26:56
  Never did I test that there was anything wrong with me.
• 27:00
  Thyroid's fine.
• 27:02
  Weight gain, extreme weight gain.
• 27:04
  So here I go from being, I don't know, in today's world maybe I was a size two or a size four, because the numbers are way off.
• 27:12
  Like- size two today was probably a size six or eight when we were y- little.
• 27:18
  But, I went from that to gaining 100 pounds effortlessly.
• 27:23
  N- no reason for it, and there it is.
• 27:25
  Every- everything was just out of balance, and that is so- Everything that is just so stress related anyway, those imbalances.
• 27:32
  I actually do a biofrequency energy scan with your voice that detects a hu- oh yeah.
• 27:38
  It's really fun.
• 27:39
  It's 171,000 different frequencies it detects in your body, and it detects imbalances.
• 27:45
  So it doesn't, it's not diagnostic, but when I get blood work done, I love to put it up next to it because- Yeah it's spot on.
• 27:53
  And those are the things, I love doing it for clients.
• 27:55
  I'll have to let you do one.
• 27:56
  It's free.
• 27:57
  Yeah.
• 27:57
  Yeah, it's totally free.
• 27:59
  But it's fun because what it does is it, like I said, your body is amazing at compensating.
• 28:04
  Yeah.
• 28:04
  So that's why, and if your cortisol is high, something else will kick in, but your digestive juices will stop flowing because they don't wanna wear this out, and it's all connected.
• 28:14
  But this thing that's, that shows these imbalances, it shows stressors.
• 28:19
  Yeah.
• 28:19
  So it will s- it showed me I wanna say about seven months before my doctor told me that my A1C was high, that my A1C, my glucagon, my glucose, that, my sugar, my metabolism, like it told me all
• 28:33
  of that.
• 28:34
  And had I listened and fixed it, my sugar then before I had the actual blood test, I probably could have avoided it.
• 28:40
  Yeah.
• 28:41
  Yeah.
• 28:42
  It- But you don't listen, and your body- You don't your body whispers before it screams.
• 28:47
  And with people like me, w- we are so good at faking life, at putting the face on, at separating from our bodies.
• 28:58
  And so what it took for me is to go and do the uncomfortable work of being part of my body, being part of my body, feeling everything.
• 29:09
  You have to feel to heal.
• 29:11
  You have to feel to heal.
• 29:12
  And doing vagus work, tapping, I love tapping, and I used to tap to try to get rid of the dysfunction.
• 29:22
  What is my attachment to potato chips?
• 29:24
  Tapping for that.
• 29:25
  But then it became about...
• 29:28
  I tap now.
• 29:29
  I sing this little song that it's oh, how does it go?
• 29:32
  All my cells are healthy and happy.
• 29:34
  But I sing this little song telling my body that I'm healthy and I'm happy, and I tap, and I do it every day.
• 29:40
  It's a non-negotiable.
• 29:42
  And so I started practicing things like that.
• 29:46
  I...
• 29:47
  Anytime I have negative thoughts, I ask myself...
• 29:51
  I don't comple- I used to just dismiss them and say "Cancel" or, "Nope, we're not gonna think of that.
• 29:56
  Nope."
• 29:57
  And sometimes I'll do that if it's really I don't wanna give the energy to a b- a negative thought.
• 30:02
  But I accept them now, and I go why am I thinking about that?"
• 30:06
  Why am I thinking about that?
• 30:08
  I might pray about it and say, "You know what?
• 30:11
  I don't really wanna think about this.
• 30:12
  I wanna understand why it's here, but I don't wanna have these emotions attached to it," and I don't.
• 30:17
  I just release them.
• 30:18
  I'm like, "Okay it's your job, God, not mine."
• 30:21
  "Your stress, not mine."
• 30:23
  And so- Surrendering.
• 30:24
  Yeah, surrender- Surrender and just give it up, and- Yep you have to do that sometimes.
• 30:28
  But the tapping is actually amazing, and- It is if nothing else it's refocusing.
• 30:32
  But telling your body over and over again.
• 30:34
  Yeah.
• 30:35
  I talk to people all the time, and they wake up in the morning, and they literally make a mental inventory of everything that hurts.
• 30:42
  Yeah.
• 30:42
  I'm like, you literally just spent 10 minutes bringing all of the negative energy and pointing out all the things that hurt.
• 30:48
  Manifesting pain.
• 30:48
  Yeah.
• 30:49
  Yeah.
• 30:49
  How about waking up in the morning and thanking God that your feet don't hurt?
• 30:53
  Like- Yeah my feet feel great this morning.
• 30:55
  But it's like, where our attention goes, energy flows.
• 30:59
  So- Yeah Oh, it's and I truly- It's so true I truly believe, There's no, I guess you could say coincidence, or there's no...
• 31:07
  There is no coincidence that people that have a, a horrible divorce that their rates of breast cancer are high.
• 31:14
  Yeah.
• 31:14
  It's like that's...
• 31:15
  all of the mind-body connection is so real, and now it's like you just have to believe it, though, because then you have to believe that what you put into the universe is what you get out.
• 31:26
  So when you're talking to your body, like you say, you're tapping and you're saying, "All of my cells in my body are whole and healthy"- Yeah then you're speaking it into the universe, and the universe is gonna look
• 31:36
  for experiences and anything to evidence to show that what you said was true, 'cause it wants it to be true.
• 31:44
  Yeah.
• 31:45
  And and that's the way I started looking at praying, too is we pray for a little bit of time, "Oh, I want this," right?
• 31:54
  And then we think we're done.
• 31:55
  We're done.
• 31:56
  But then all day you're, like you said, you're focused on, "Oh, my knee hurts.
• 32:00
  My knee hurts.
• 32:01
  My head hurts.
• 32:02
  Oh, I'm sick."
• 32:03
  You say these things to yourself.
• 32:05
  I don't say, "Oh, I have," I say, "I was diagnosed.
• 32:10
  I was diagnosed with this," because I believe your body's meant to heal.
• 32:14
  I believe your body can heal.
• 32:16
  And there's so many of us.
• 32:19
  It's not just me.
• 32:20
  There's so many of us that have done that, and it's about feeding your, anti-inflammatory diet.
• 32:27
  There's such a focus on anti-inflammatory diet, but what is that?
• 32:30
  That's you actually taking care of yourself.
• 32:32
  It's you not picking the food.
• 32:35
  I used to comfort myself with food, comfort myself with a chair.
• 32:39
  The chair would hug me because I needed a hug.
• 32:42
  You can put your hand on your heart and make practices where you hug yourself or you actually literally hug yourself.
• 32:49
  I was looking for that attention.
• 32:51
  And what was that?
• 32:52
  That was my little self, the little me that needed somebody to be there for me that wasn't there.
• 32:59
  I was all by myself.
• 33:00
  Talking about abandonment issues.
• 33:02
  When you are in a big house all by yourself with a pool, like a lot of scary things can happen.
• 33:10
  And then the house is scary.
• 33:12
  My, my parents, they slept separately, so my dad, when he'd have to work nights, he completely blacked out with reflective tape the window.
• 33:21
  And it stunk in there because it was just so musty 'cause the window was never open, and so I called it the dungeon because it felt like one.
• 33:31
  And so here's this scary place with this scary person, really, in, in the house.
• 33:37
  And so I didn't even...
• 33:39
  I would never...
• 33:40
  When he wasn't there, I wouldn't go play in there.
• 33:42
  I wouldn't go in there.
• 33:43
  Sometimes I was curious, and I'd go- Navigate a little bit, but I stayed out of there 'cause it was just, it was scary to me.
• 33:49
  And so when you're trying to heal your body it's There's so ma- much to it.
• 33:57
  It's what are you feeding yourself?
• 33:59
  Are you feeding to fill in a void and try to fill in the comfort with the har- hot macaroni and cheese?
• 34:07
  You're...
• 34:08
  And that is what you have to recognize and pull away from, because it's damaging your health, and you become part of your abuse because you are abusing yourself every day when you're doing those things, and you're not taking
• 34:22
  care of your body the way that it deserves to be taken care of because you don't deserve...
• 34:27
  That you think, "I don't deserve to be taken care of," when the truth is you do.
• 34:32
  You do.
• 34:32
  You deserve to be taken care of.
• 34:34
  You deserve to love yourself.
• 34:35
  You deserve the work that it takes, and it takes a lot of work.
• 34:40
  It's...
• 34:41
  I'm not gonna ever lie and say that this journey was easy for me.
• 34:44
  It was not.
• 34:46
  And then pulling away from the relationships, because other people's energy is just as bad as your own.
• 34:51
  So if you s- are surrounding yourself with people that are feeding you this negative energy, that are feeding into that you can't do it, that are feeding into that you need to be exactly where you're at I knew
• 35:07
  at a certain point in my journey that all of my relationships might have to dissolve.
• 35:13
  Not my children, 'cause I have to take care of them.
• 35:16
  Not them, but my marriage, my...
• 35:19
  Even though I love my husband and he's the better, way better version of a husband than the first one.
• 35:29
  And thank the Lord he decided to do the work with me, right?
• 35:33
  'Cause I approached him at a certain point.
• 35:34
  I'm like, "Hey, I'm gonna be changing, and I need you to be okay with that, number one.
• 35:40
  But I also need you to change because we're not healthy right now.
• 35:44
  I'm not healthy.
• 35:45
  I don't really think you're healthy.
• 35:47
  We need to make some changes and some shifts, so do you wanna do it with me?"
• 35:52
  That's how I approached that.
• 35:54
  And when- so what steps did he and you together take, for the audience so they can get some- Yeah practical stre- steps to re- start regaining your health?
• 36:02
  So where are you at with your MS?
• 36:04
  Like, how are you feeling?
• 36:06
  What did you do?
• 36:07
  Talk about that.
• 36:08
  Lesions, the second MRI I got, they all were going away.
• 36:13
  They all...
• 36:13
  So I had three remaining, and they were all shrinking.
• 36:16
  So at this point I have to believe that they're gone, so they're gone.
• 36:20
  You go do testing.
• 36:22
  Do I have demyelination?
• 36:23
  No.
• 36:23
  If I went to a doctor today, could I be diagnosed?
• 36:26
  Probably not.
• 36:27
  Based on my history they're always gonna diagnose you, right?
• 36:30
  Because, oh, you have a history.
• 36:31
  It doesn't go away.
• 36:32
  You can't heal.
• 36:33
  You have to go to a doctor that actually believes you can heal.
• 36:35
  So if you're going to one that the, quite literally the last neurologist I went to, "I prescribe drugs.
• 36:43
  Why are you here?"
• 36:45
  I'm not gonna take your drugs.
• 36:46
  So you have to go to somebody there's only one neurologist I know of, Dr.
• 36:50
  David Perlmutter, that is in functional medicine that believes that things can shift.
• 36:55
  Like- that is the only doctor I would agree to go to somebody like him again that believes that, and the truth, really.
• 37:03
  It's the truth.
• 37:05
  And changing your diet.
• 37:06
  We started by changing just that.
• 37:08
  We started by sh- shifting our diet The Plant Paradox, i- by Dr.
• 37:13
  Steven Gundry.
• 37:14
  And when we did that, man, within three weeks my numb face So my face had e- eventually went numb, so that's my neurological sign finally.
• 37:27
  20 years later I gotta get tested.
• 37:31
  Within three weeks my face woke up and I could taste food again, and I knew we were doing the right thing.
• 37:36
  And my mom unknowingly had taken a holistic approach, so I watched her health get better through that.
• 37:42
  So I already trusted it and knew that it was It works.
• 37:48
  And then- Okay, so you changed your d- diet.
• 37:49
  What else?
• 37:49
  Changed my diet.
• 37:51
  Figuring out, getting to know myself, really.
• 37:53
  That was huge.
• 37:54
  Getting to know myself and my core values understanding my, my daily thoughts.
• 38:01
  Really being more of a positive person versus negative talk and that includes other people, right?
• 38:08
  So it's And then that's hard.
• 38:10
  My husband and I, we've always liked to people watch and there's some interesting individuals out there.
• 38:15
  And that was always a fun game for us, but it's it's shifting your mindset into who you are and going, hey, maybe this isn't a positive game that we're playing.
• 38:26
  And shifting the behavior, and being more active, physically active.
• 38:32
  Of course with autoimmunity, that comes when it's able to because that is a stress, so you can make things worse.
• 38:42
  So you want to lower inflammation then add activity s- so that way you're not adding too much of a heavy load.
• 38:50
  And then I really focused on why did my family get MS, right?
• 38:54
  Those genetics.
• 38:56
  So I support, I can't eat folic acid, so grains.
• 39:00
  All grains in the US are fortified.
• 39:03
  So I stay away from grains for the most part.
• 39:07
  I make sure they're organic.
• 39:09
  I make sure they're not fortified.
• 39:11
  If I get them I don't want them fortified with crap that my body can't process.
• 39:15
  MTHFR was huge.
• 39:17
  That is passed down by the mother.
• 39:19
  So these are things we shared.
• 39:21
  The celiac gene, the one that I have, is the HLA genes in general are problematic.
• 39:30
  But mine was overreactive, overresponsive.
• 39:35
  So not only d- are the grains fortified, so my MTHFR, my methylation's not processing right.
• 39:41
  So that, your methylation is huge.
• 39:44
  It not only processes toxins out of your body through your liver, it also gets out your excess hormones.
• 39:51
  So- estrogen dominant, it's your liver.
• 39:55
  Yep.
• 39:57
  Yep.
• 39:57
  So I do liver flushes.
• 40:00
  I do regular parasite cleanses, infrared light, being out in the sun.
• 40:05
  My family has a history of skin cancer, I don't care.
• 40:08
  I...
• 40:08
  you eat high antioxidants, you make more melanin.
• 40:11
  You chlorophyll's excellent for, you do these things that help, that where your body helps protect your skin on its own.
• 40:20
  And you go out and you get your vitamin D the right way.
• 40:24
  That's how our body's supposed to get it.
• 40:26
  And s- Isn't it funny?
• 40:27
  There's so many things and people are like, "What are you talking about?"
• 40:30
  My husband's a fisherman, and one of the biggest things with fither- fishermen is they eat, to keep the skin cancer down, because we're in Florida, you're in the sun all the time- Yeah a lot of watermelon.
• 40:39
  Oh, okay.
• 40:39
  Because watermelon has that protects the skin from rotting from- Yep so it's literally, it's like we...
• 40:46
  I always was like, "Why do we always eat so much watermelon?"
• 40:50
  Yeah.
• 40:51
  I mean- It makes sense.
• 40:52
  Yeah it was just...
• 40:54
  And it's practicing these things every day, it's a daily practice.
• 40:58
  Every day I'm cleaning up the penile gland in the beginning, getting the heavy metals out.
• 41:03
  When I tested my body, I was toxic.
• 41:07
  I had heavy metal.
• 41:09
  All the heavy metals that I had six in the beginning.
• 41:11
  They were all way past the toxic level.
• 41:15
  I had Lyme.
• 41:16
  Oh, that was a pain in the butt.
• 41:19
  I had to hire a functional doctor to actually get the proper Lyme testing, 'cause the Western Blot is ab- absolute crap.
• 41:26
  Don't trust that.
• 41:27
  It has a 50% fail rate.
• 41:30
  Oh, the test?
• 41:31
  Yeah.
• 41:31
  Oh, yeah.
• 41:32
  And it's not, and it's not...
• 41:33
  Once the- It's crap yeah, once the first, once the actual initial bam of the Lyme, it's like the testing doesn't test anymore, but it still- No continues to destroy all of your organs.
• 41:42
  Oh, yeah.
• 41:43
  So I had finally years later, but there's the antibodies for Lyme, so they're...
• 41:48
  Like, and also, I just was bit.
• 41:51
  It wasn't in me.
• 41:52
  I thought it was a spider.
• 41:53
  It was very large.
• 41:54
  So wherever that bug is in its recycling phase so if it's been on another host and it's ready to regurgitate and it bites you, if that juice gets in your system, it's in your blood now.
• 42:08
  So it doesn't have to be implanted and in you, obviously, because I got it.
• 42:13
  And I suspected, 'cause a month after that happened, my face went numb, so I knew those were related.
• 42:20
  But of course I'm crazy, and he's the specialist, so what do I know?
• 42:26
  Yeah.
• 42:26
  It's really ha- it's really hard, too, because there's so many, and especially, my daughter went to a functional medicine doctor and he s- I, to this day, say he saved her life.
• 42:35
  But she ended up taking all of her blood out and putting ozone in it, shaking- Yep it back up and putting it back in her body, because she had probably mono in first grade or something- Yep and never
• 42:45
  got rid of it.
• 42:46
  So she literally had no immune system, so she had E.
• 42:50
  coli in her body, she had botulism, she had all the- Yeah things that a normal, healthy immune system is exposed to every single day but we fight off.
• 42:59
  Yeah.
• 43:00
  Yep, I did ozone too.
• 43:02
  I love now that was insane because here I'd By the time I did a 10 pass, and then I did ozone dialysis, which I recommend more.
• 43:11
  It's called EBOO.
• 43:12
  It's more expensive, but it filters out.
• 43:15
  She, yeah, she did EBOO.
• 43:16
  It- She did EBOO the second go around after she had the freaking vaccine and she got all jacked up again.
• 43:22
  Yeah.
• 43:22
  Oh, yeah.
• 43:24
  But that, definitely EBOO over the 10 pass, because the 10 pass puts the die-off back in your system.
• 43:30
  And so when I did my 10 pass, I think it was maybe the third treatment, here I'd been detoxing for years at that point, thought I was, doing amazing.
• 43:42
  And then I had a Herxheimer reaction on the third one, which is horrific.
• 43:47
  It's the worst flu you could think of.
• 43:49
  You just feel absolutely horrid, and that's when I realized, oh, it didn't get it all.
• 43:56
  I hadn't gotten it all because the ozone definitely got something there.
• 44:01
  But then every one after that was fine.
• 44:04
  But I was thankful that I had done that treatment because when my, when I did get my Lyme testing, there was 12 co-infections.
• 44:11
  Yeah.
• 44:12
  12 co-infections.
• 44:13
  Every animal I owned w- there was one linked to every animal.
• 44:18
  Yeah.
• 44:21
  Great.
• 44:21
  So me kissing my little dwarf hamster on the nose And again, if you're out there listening, this is not to scare you.
• 44:28
  This is to- No show you that really the big picture.
• 44:31
  You just wanna do what you can do.
• 44:33
  Yeah.
• 44:33
  Obviously people can't run out and get ozone treatment or EBOO treatment- No at the drop of a dime.
• 44:38
  It's unrealistic.
• 44:39
  It's- Yeah tens of thousands of dollars for some- Yeah of the treatments.
• 44:43
  But what you can do is you can, like she said, Holly just said it flat out, is you can start taking care of your body the best way you know how.
• 44:51
  Yeah.
• 44:52
  And it's just making small changes every day.
• 44:54
  When you go to pick up that cookie, go maybe not."
• 44:57
  Yeah.
• 44:57
  You know what I mean?
• 44:58
  When your doctor tells you your A1C is a 6.4, don't pick up the cookie.
• 45:03
  Pick up something else.
• 45:04
  Just start making those little changes and finding things.
• 45:08
  Honestly, if you're trying to make those small changes and it seems overwhelming, find those things, those little things where the replacements can still give you that little dopamine hit because if you grew up in dysfunction and you grew
• 45:20
  up in that kind of trauma, you still need that reward center.
• 45:24
  Your brain needs it.
• 45:25
  Yeah.
• 45:25
  That's why it's a comfort food.
• 45:27
  That's why it's a comfort game or whatever your drug of choice is, and I don't mean drug, but you know what I'm saying.
• 45:34
  But- and with food, I learned how to make the things I liked with whole foods.
• 45:39
  So it's not about avoiding classes, the the cookies or the brownies.
• 45:46
  Make a resistant starch.
• 45:48
  Sweet potatoes make a great base for baked goods Bake it, put it in the refrigerator, make it a resistant starch.
• 45:58
  Now you're feeding your gut bugs, right?
• 46:00
  Yeah.
• 46:00
  You're healing your gut.
• 46:01
  Leaky gut is attached to all autoimmune disease, so you're healing your gut, you're reduce...
• 46:07
  the, the basics is what I...
• 46:10
  Which seems simple, but it's doing the basics for seven years in a row, right?
• 46:14
  It's every morning waking up and saying positive things to yourself.
• 46:18
  It's every morning getting out and getting in the fresh air.
• 46:22
  It's earthing.
• 46:23
  It's making sure you're active and you're moving your calf muscles.
• 46:27
  Really, your calves.
• 46:28
  So after you eat a meal, there's three exercises you can do to move that glucose.
• 46:33
  Walk for 10 minutes, 30 jumping jacks, or 10 lunges.
• 46:37
  Those have all equally been proven to move that glucose to where it's supposed to go.
• 46:43
  So it's about doing these things on a regular basis every day because you're worth it.
• 46:49
  And I don't have it on me right now, but I usually wear a bracelet that says, "I am enough," because some days I do need a reminder.
• 46:57
  Some days, like, when somebody says something that I don't like to me or there's, something bad happens that I can't control, sometimes I need that reminder, and it's right there on my wrist every day.
• 47:09
  I just came back from the beach, that's why it's not on.
• 47:14
  I am enough.
• 47:14
  I, and I know that about myself.
• 47:16
  I know that some days I need the support, and it's like me being that support system for myself ahead of time.
• 47:24
  Yep.
• 47:24
  Because sometimes my husband might be at work, my kids are at school.
• 47:28
  I don't have them here to support me in the moment that I feel weak.
• 47:32
  And so it's, I'm enough, and then I'm that person for myself.
• 47:36
  And that's the most important thing, and I've said that all the time, is like we spend our whole lives not getting what, the validation we needed from the outside.
• 47:44
  Yes.
• 47:44
  And it's now it's like all of a sudden as adults, why do we think we're gonna get it any...
• 47:48
  we're not.
• 47:48
  No- there's no knight in shining armor that's gonna rush in.
• 47:50
  No.
• 47:51
  You, I always say between me and my God, we got it all.
• 47:54
  We just- Yeah we just have to know we got it all.
• 47:56
  We c- we have e- all the tools we need to make ourselves ha- healthy, to heal our own bodies.
• 48:02
  Yep.
• 48:03
  We have it all.
• 48:04
  We just have to learn the tools to access it.
• 48:06
  Yep.
• 48:06
  And so much of it am mi- is mindset.
• 48:09
  But Holly, this has been super fun.
• 48:11
  Yep.
• 48:11
  But if people wanna work with you, tell them the...
• 48:13
  I could talk to you all day- but I know people are like, "Okay, I gotta go eat."
• 48:17
  Tell people where they can reach you if they wanna work with you.
• 48:20
  Sure.
• 48:20
  So my website is The Healing Haul, so it's T-H-E-H-E-A-L-I-N-G, and then Haul, H-A-U-L, at, oh, .com.
• 48:33
  I was gonna give you my email.
• 48:35
  But it, thehealinghaul.com.
• 48:37
  Okay.
• 48:37
  And all of my socials are linked up top, so you just click on them.
• 48:41
  And I do daily reels.
• 48:43
  It's my way to give back to try to help people with autoimmune disease get their health back.
• 48:49
  Perfect.
• 48:49
  I absolutely love that.
• 48:51
  And if you could leave, you're not off the hook yet 'cause I- so appreciate you coming on.
• 48:54
  But if you could leave the listeners with one, something tangible or words of wisdom or piece of advice to walk away with today to make their day a little more positive, what would it be?
• 49:06
  My favorite, one of my favorite sayings that I always say is, "If you have breath, God has a purpose for you."
• 49:14
  And in the Bible it says to fast and pray.
• 49:18
  Fast and pray.
• 49:18
  That's it.
• 49:19
  Fast and pray.
• 49:20
  That's how you get better.
• 49:21
  And whether you're religious or not, you can say a prayer.
• 49:26
  You can say a prayer.
• 49:28
  We can restrict food in a healthy way, and I think we eat too much in today's world, and too much of the bad things.
• 49:36
  But you have a purpose.
• 49:38
  I truly believe everybody has a purpose.
• 49:40
  There's so many times in my journey I thought I didn't, and so many times I came close to ending my own life because I didn't see the value in myself.
• 49:52
  And today there is over 100,000 people that follow me.
• 49:57
  I am linked in the UK on a platform, and I have no idea how many people follow me over there, but they found value, right?
• 50:07
  Don't give up on yourself because your journey is hard.
• 50:11
  It is meant to be hard to build you to who you're supposed to be.
• 50:16
  I am so thankful that I went through all of what I went through to be who I am today, because God built me to be this, and now I have a purpose, and I share that purpose.
• 50:30
  So that would be, that's it.
• 50:32
  And how do you get that?
• 50:33
  You love yourself.
• 50:34
  You listen to your intuition.
• 50:36
  You do small steps, right?
• 50:38
  You...
• 50:38
  We can a- we can all pick to eat whole foods, right?
• 50:42
  We can eat the whole food.
• 50:43
  We can make recipes.
• 50:44
  It takes a little bit more work, but you're loving yourself in that action.
• 50:48
  There's love being put into that food for you to eat, to nourish who you want to be.
• 50:55
  Amen.
• 50:57
  Very well said.
• 50:57
  Thank you so much.
• 50:58
  And for everybody else out there listening, you heard it.
• 51:01
  Just love on yourself.
• 51:02
  Treat yourself like your own best friend, and know that you are so worth it.
• 51:06
  You hear me at the end of the podcast.
• 51:07
  If you listen all the way through the end, it always says, "And know that you are enough.
• 51:10
  You are way more than enough."
• 51:12
  That's how I end my podcast every time.
• 51:15
  But it is true, and you deserve every good thing that's out there for you, and you need to know that.
• 51:21
  So if you doubt that, and you need somebody, and you need a backup, you got Holly.
• 51:25
  You got me.
• 51:26
  Yeah.
• 51:26
  You got all the support in the world out there.
• 51:28
  Go and just nourish yourself.
• 51:30
  Just nourish yourself and love on yourself, and It will be so worth it, I promise you.
• 51:35
  So you all have a very blessed week, and we will see you back here tomorrow for Tammy Sakes.
• 51:41
  Have a great day.