Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #323: Anne Cleary – Iowa Central Community College | From Heptathlete to Leader of Many Hats

Transcript

#323: Anne Cleary – Iowa Central Community College | From Heptathlete to Leader of Many Hats · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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You're listening to the Gil Athletics Connections podcast
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with host Mike Cunningham. Track and field world UNL tuned
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in to our humble servant Mike Cunningham for another
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extraordinary message or Gil Athletics connections.
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All right, welcome back here the Gil Athletics Connections
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Podcast. Just again, you know, I say it
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every episode and I mean it. I'm just so humble that you
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pressed play today, not only because I'm glad you know you're
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here and one of listen to the podcast and support the coaches,
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but also because I love sharing these guest journeys here and
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I'm really excited about this one.
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So let's get right into it. Help me welcome from Iowa
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Central Community College, the Wise, the wonderfulness, and
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Cleary. And how are you today?
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I am doing well, Mike. Thank you.
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I'm excited to be here. I've been listening for a long
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time. You've had a lot of really
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phenomenal guests, so hopefully someone listens to my podcast.
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Oh, you know what? It's my mom, Will.
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There you go. A lot of people say that, you
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know, hopefully jokingly, because you know, a lot of
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people do listen to the podcast and I always tell them it's like
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you'd be surprised from you know, our number one is Boo
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Shack Snyder, our 300 and something is usually whoever the
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most recent one because it's got to catch up and everything.
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But people are interested in other coaches stories and one of
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the reasons one of the the values that we we wanted to
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bring here to the podcast too, and this fits perfectly you with
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you here and at Iowa Central is, you know, we wanted to make sure
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that we also were showing all levels of track and field,
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right. It's very easy, almost like, you
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know, the whole we're having this discussion on Twitter
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literally real time over the last 48 hours about D1 or bust
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and things like that. So it's really easy to go out
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and get these phenomenal, by the way, we have them amazing men
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and women from Division One. We've had Carol Smith Gilbert at
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Georgia, she's awesome. We've had Mouse Holloway, he's
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amazing. Love these guys and gals, but
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they're not the be all end all. They're not the only people that
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can coach and they're not the only level that is appropriate
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for all track and field athletes, right?
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And so it's very, very important for us to D2D3 junior college,
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NEIA high school, middle school pros even, and we've had the the
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whole gamut. So, and I'm a former junior
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college coach myself and I'm in fact, I was just having this
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conversation this weekend and at a convention I was at, it
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changed me. I have such a love now for
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junior college athletics after coaching it and being involved
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with the people, the athletes and coaches and, and athletics
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and professors that are that that are at that level that I
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just I'm in love with junior college.
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It really is my favorite all time level.
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So I'm super excited to dig in with you and learn more about
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that as well. So remind me, because I'm
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terrible. Where is Iowa Central?
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Fort Dodge, IA. Ford Dodge.
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So if I OK, so if you're watching on YouTube, this square
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is Iowa. Yeah, yeah.
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Here is Des Moines, right in the middle.
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Where am I going? It's got to be central.
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Yeah, you're going North East. East.
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OK, All right, So I'm going back towards Cedar Rapids, Ish.
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No, not towards Cedar Rapids. Nope.
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Am I going West then? A little bit.
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We are. I'll just look at a map.
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Only been here for two years, is that fair?
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Oh, that's very fair going. Towards Sioux.
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City. OK, there you go.
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Sioux City. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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No, we're northeast. We're just not very Far East.
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OK. All right.
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OK, Yeah. We're going towards, you're
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going north through Ames, we're past Ames and then we're going,
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you'd take on 20, you would pass Fort Dodge going to Sioux City.
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I wonder, did I pass you? I just went to Iowa State a week
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ago and and did that like to to get to Ames.
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Is it 20? Is that the road you just said?
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Is that the road? So you wouldn't have made it all
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the way to Fort Dodge. You would have turned on 35.
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OK, that that. Was Fort Dodge was probably the
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sign you toward turned towards Des Moines.
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Fort Dodge would have been straight.
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Got it. Yep.
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OK, that makes sense. That makes sense.
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I always forget where I know it's central because again, I,
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you know, it makes fun of air quotes, makes fun of directional
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schools, but I'm also like, you know, it's also very helpful to
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find, you know, north, east, South.
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We know exactly where where Central is and you mentioned
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you've only been there for two years, so I'm excited to we'll
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put a pin in that 'cause we're gonna work up towards that.
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So why don't we just get started here getting our way back
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machine and somewhere assuming you were an athlete.
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And we have certainly learned after 300 amazing, unique
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interviews here that not everybody was a track athlete
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that gets into track and field coaching.
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Where does track and field begin for you?
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So I was a track and field athlete, Yes.
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Go back when I was nine years old, my sister, older sister,
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they did an AAU or USA, Sorry, I don't remember which one, you
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know, basketball camp or something.
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So they had the, you know, they remembers the USAA, you whatever
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membership. And there was a track meet that
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was going to be close. So a bunch of members of her
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basketball team were going to go do this track meet.
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And I'm nine years old at the time.
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So my parents signed me up because I'm going to do it too.
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And we know I don't want to say no nothing.
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My mom did track obviously, but you know, like 9 years old.
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There's not, I mean, it's, it's blown up now, but over 30,
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almost 30 years ago wasn't, you know, there wasn't, I didn't,
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wasn't a part of a track club or anything like that.
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And they entered me in the long jump and I think it was the 100
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and 200 and I won the long jump and then I just got rolled in
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the one and the two. And that will be a theme as we
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go on in my track and field career.
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But after that I was sold and I have loved track ever since.
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What? First of all, I love your future
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humility of that. That's going to be a theme.
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Thank you for that. What as you think back to nine
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years old, It's interesting. I it's going to be hard maybe
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for you. I was thinking about, I was on a
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long drive this weekend and I was trying to think of my first
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coaching job where I was coaching high school up in
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Chicago and I was watching the movies, you know, as you think
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about memories and it felt almost like an antibiotic like,
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like I know I did that. It was me.
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But boy, that feels like 2 lifetimes like two other people.
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You know, I just, I, I couldn't, it was hard for me to conceive
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that I actually was doing those activities.
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Do you remember as a nine year old, you said you were hooked.
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What was it? Was it competition?
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Was it other kids? Was it, you got a medal?
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Sometimes that that's a big deal.
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I think it was my mom and I don't really remember.
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I guess. I guess what I'm remembering is
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stories I'm told is my mom says, you know, they made some comment
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about future Olympian or something, and then they put the
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metal around my neck and then that was it.
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It was not a future Olympian. Yeah.
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I always tell people, you know who is nobody?
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I mean, that's why when I meet Olympians, I'm like, dude, you
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are in a club of nobody. You're out the charts.
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Yeah, that's interesting. It reminds me we had Willie
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Banks. Do you remember Willie Banks?
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Great triple jumper, American record holder, the inventor of
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the clap and everything. And you know, we like to.
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I I probably forgot to tell you, Anne.
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I'm kind of a tangent interviewer, so I'm just yeah,
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yeah, we're gonna get to story. Like I said, I am a big fan of
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the podcast. So, OK, good, good.
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So you're familiar with this. We, we eventually do get to the
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story, but it reminds me of all these other amazing things.
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So we rail on this, you know, ribbons for everybody type of
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thing and trophies for everybody.
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But I was, it just kind of made me change my mind a little bit.
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Willie Banks, who again becomes, you know, American record
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holder, gold or Olympic medalist, etcetera, etcetera.
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And when I asked him how he got into track, he talked about he
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went in very similar, maybe not at 9:00 but very similar.
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Went to a meet and triple jumped and did real well, but got like
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8. I got maybe 12th.
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Like did not win it by any stretch of the imagination, but
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he got a ribbon for it. And that was the first time that
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someone had said like your word, like you like you have potential
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you can do so you're good. And that set him on the path to
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greatness and it made me think like, oh, forgiven and not this
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is necessarily not your story as far as you know, you won the
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long jump for kind out loud. But but if we're giving 9/10/11
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year old kids trophies on stuff and it's like, you know, who
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cares? But if that motivates that kid,
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all the best. I don't really think it makes
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kids like think, well, I should, you know, I'm a winner every
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time. It's like, no, you still know
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you're 9th or 13th or whatever, but I don't know, just just
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interesting about youth athletics and what that can and
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cannot motivate them for the future.
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But so but but but similar someone said, you know, future
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Olympian or something again, something that, you know, that's
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ludicrous to say to anybody really, but to a nine year old.
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But but in your head you're kind of like maybe me.
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Wow, that's interesting. I love that.
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OK, so you're hooked. So what does that mean?
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Do you join the the local track club and going so.
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I did. There was.
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I grew up in Vermilion, South Dakota.
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The University of South Dakota is so and again, I don't know at
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what point, I think I was in high school by that point, but I
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was in in a track club that was based out of Sioux Falls.
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So it was about over 45 minute drive for practice and stuff
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like that. So eventually was part of a
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track club, but that did take some time just because you know
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that that's, you know, my parents weren't driving me to
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Sioux Falls multiple times a week and stuff and they're
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working full time and stuff like that.
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But I continued to do all the AAU and USA and, you know, the
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rec track and field and the Hershey track meets and all that
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type of stuff. So yes.
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Any any other sports? Yeah, I played through middle
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school, high school and stuff. I played volleyball and
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basketball. I ran cross country just my
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senior year. And again, as the the theme I'm
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running is not a strong point, but I was an individual South
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Dakota state qualifier. So I like to throw that out with
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my cross country kids that yeah. And then they remind me it was
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South Dakota. So those there's probably only
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like 25 people in the whole state.
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So but still but. Yeah, you, you can't.
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It wasn't your fault. You didn't pick where you live,
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so you just had to do what you do and you got it done.
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Yeah, I love it. I love it.
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You mentioned, I think you said a sister, other family in
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sports, track or anything like that.
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So older sister and younger brother and we're all pretty
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active. I'm the only one that you kind
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of went on to college and stuff and did athletics and stuff, but
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they're still very, my sister works in like special education
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and stuff and is an adaptive or a unified high school coach and
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my brother is an athletic trainer and currently works for
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the Savannah Bananas. Oh, shut up.
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Yeah. Is that right?
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Uh huh. Technically he works for the
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party animals, the other team. Is that the is that the
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Washington Generals of the Savannah?
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Do you know the Washington Generals?
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They always played the Harlem Go Trotters.
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Is that the they actually though?
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Like in Banana Ball, in banana land, they have followers and
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stuff. And like, my husband and
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daughter are Party Animal fans, not banana fans.
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Wow. So all the teams kind of have
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their own following. It's very interesting and very.
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And I mean, you wanna talk about marketing and all that?
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Jesse Cole is a genius. 100% agree.
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I absolutely maybe don't wanna go too strong over here but do
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not like baseball at all. However, I want to go to a
11:08
Savannah Bananas, but you can't. They're just all sold out
11:11
everywhere. I mean just.
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Yeah, I, yeah, my whenever people say, I just say anywhere
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close to your house, just get in the lotteries and get in because
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it is, it is. Awesome.
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So you've been yes multiple times.
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Yes. So we've also been, we've went
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out to Savannah where my, you know, my brother and
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sister-in-law live and have been at Grayson Stadium and stuff,
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which also if you're in Savannah and you can go to Grayson
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Stadium, it is, it's phenomenal. But yeah, they put on the show
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and then my 6 year old daughter, she is like on cloud 9 and they
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make every kid feel like they know him personally and stuff.
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Like it is crazy. That's so cool.
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Just how good they are and how, you know, like the the players,
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the you know, the stuff they do with, you know, the marketing
11:53
and the fan first. It's phenomenal.
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So yes, if anyone, if you can go to Savannah Bananas game or a
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party Animals game, yeah, they're awesome.
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It's amazing to me that people that come up with these really
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ludicrous ideas like, you know, I think it's Jesse Cole, is that
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right? That's his name.
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You know, go back 10/15/20 years when he first had the idea, hey,
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I'm going to create this fake baseball team.
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We're going to, you know, we're going to break all the rules and
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it's basically going to be a party.
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He centered around a baseball game.
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Everybody. He had to be told no a million
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times. Like what?
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You're an idiot. No one's gonna do this, blah,
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blah. And he has created a he's
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created a culture. It's phenomenal.
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Speaking of culture, So brother and sister, while may not have
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gone on to do college athletics, which we'll learn more about
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from you here in a little bit, but still in the athletic world,
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she's coaching adaptive. He's an athletic trainer.
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So sports is a big deal for the family, it sounds like.
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Yes, yeah. Very cool.
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So talk to us about high school track and field.
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Did you stay as a long jumper? I was curious with people so.
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I was Yep. So I long jumped, triple jumped,
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high jumped, would run on some relays and stuff.
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Like I said, I was not fast. It was probably, well not
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probably definitely a huge limiting factor in my long jump
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was my lack of speed and then through and South Dakota doesn't
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have the multi events, but through the summer I did
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heptathlon, pentathlon and stuff like that.
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So. How did you get into that?
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Because I'm curious about that because you know, we don't have
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many states that have that at all.
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So how did you figure out to do multis?
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So I'm, I'm probably going to tell this story wrong again
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because I wasn't very old. So don't you know USA or AAU
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track and field or whoever it is, don't come after me.
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But I want to. Say it was after the state meet.
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Remember, and we, we didn't have tiefers back in our day.
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So no one, no one can look up anything.
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That's right, we're good. Yeah, so I want to say it was
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after the state meet. They, you know, you had to
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register maybe before you left for the regional meet or
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something. And again, like I said, don't
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come after me if I if I have this all wrong.
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So I'm remembering it and they said, you know, like, will we
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see she, you know, long jumped or triple jumped, high jumped,
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you know, I probably didn't triple jump yet at that point.
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We didn't, we didn't have anybody do the multi event.
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Does she want to do, do you want to go a couple days early?
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And it might have only been like a a try or something at that
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point, Like not a fool. And my mom was like, Oh yeah,
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she can do that. And there we go.
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So. Mom was like go.
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Yeah, yeah, she'll do that. She can do that.
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So there we go. And then I loved the multi ever
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since That definitely the multi is definitely my baby.
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It's definitely my my favorite event and favorite yeah, as an
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athlete. Back in I think it was 2024,
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these all kind of start running in together.
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I went out and interviewed 1 high school coach from every
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state about their outdoor state meet series and you know, how
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they qualify. And one of the questions
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actually kind of to your sister and to you, One of the questions
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that I, I didn't have initially because it just wasn't in my
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head. And I did them alphabetically.
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But after, you know, you know, Alabama, Alaska, whatever,
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Arkansas, it became really quick.
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Like, oh, adaptive is a part of high school trek more than I
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thought. Like it's not just one state.
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Like it's there are multiple states that had adapted unified
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handicapable. Like it was, it was really
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interesting. So I thought that was
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fascinating. But in that same interview I did
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because Alabama was the first one and I'm from Alabama, I know
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some states do unofficial multi state championships or something
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like that. And I was actually blown away at
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how many states, a few states, a handful of states actually have
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it as part of their state meets series.
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Tennessee and Boston and I are about Boston, MA and things like
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that, but they're a lot of unofficial or, you know, AAU and
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things like that. There, There's, there's more
15:28
multi going on out there than I initially thought, which I, I
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loved, even if they don't go on to become multis in college,
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just makes them more athletic. So I, I just love that aspect of
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it. What, what did you like about
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it? Was it that you could, you know,
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spread yourself over, you know, more events or was it, you know,
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you like the combine? You know, I get to, I don't have
15:44
to be the best at anyone, but I, if I'm pretty good at all of
15:46
them, I, I can be good here. Yeah, probably the second part
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is that I wasn't phenomenal at any, you know, individual event,
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but I also didn't necessarily have bad events.
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And also I think it just maybe my, I mean, undiagnosed ADH, you
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know, like they just, you know, I didn't have to sit, you know,
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I didn't have to sit and do one event for a long time.
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I could bounce around. I could do different things.
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I could it, it helped with not getting bored.
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That's a, you know, that's a good point.
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I wonder how many kids we lose because you know, we, they do
16:16
the two mile at the very first event and then we say, hey, you
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know, 4 hours later you'll do the mile or whatnot and it's
16:20
like 4 out in a basketball game. I'm, I'm always subbing in, I'm
16:24
doing something and I'm not 4 hours.
16:25
You're crazy. I wonder how many kids we lose
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because of that. That's interesting.
16:29
So tell me about your high school experience, your high
16:31
school coaches. Was there a, a good
16:33
relationship? A you know, did they just do
16:36
their thing? You did your thing.
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Tell us about that relationship. No, I, I absolutely, you know,
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loved my high school coaches. And I think that was a big
16:43
reason in staying in track and field is that the coaches I had
16:47
all the way through through college and stuff like that is
16:49
that I just always, you know, loved the coaches I had in track
16:53
and field. And I felt, you know, that they,
16:55
you know, pushed me to be better, that, you know, they let
16:57
me be me, that, you know, like I had a lot of energy and have a
17:01
lot going on and stuff like that.
17:03
And maybe that isn't always great for team sports.
17:07
I wasn't always able to kind of stay laser focused and stuff,
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you know, at a basketball or volleyball practice.
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I just kind of wanted to do my own thing.
17:16
I'm, I'm not a great team player.
17:18
My husband says that all the time.
17:19
That's why individual sports are for me 'cause I'm such a bad
17:22
team player. I just like to do my own thing.
17:25
I don't need other people to mess it up.
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So no, I had phenomenal coaches that continued to be supportive
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and I went on to college and stuff.
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And then one, actually, she was maybe just my freshman year
17:38
again, remembering back. You're making me remember way
17:40
back. I ran into her at a meet this
17:43
past year. Like she thought I was back at
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she. She's not in Vermilion anymore.
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She knew I was back at Iowa Central and stuff.
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But yeah, just ran into her at a meet, so super cool.
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And this was a coach who was only your coach for your
17:55
freshman year. I think she was just my freshman
17:57
year. It definitely wasn't in later.
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It definitely wasn't in like my junior, senior and stuff year,
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but yeah. That's that's amazing.
18:04
I mean, that's a real indication of the impact she made on you.
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It'd be one thing if, you know, she'd coached you your whole
18:10
four years and was your main jumps coach or whatever.
18:12
It's like, oh, OK, you guys, you know, talked every day for four
18:14
years. Here's someone that you had
18:15
interaction with for maybe a year and yet impacted you and
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you remembered her and vice versa.
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Like that's that's what you do honestly, as track coaches.
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That's why when people talk about it being a thankless job
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and you know, I'm not sure why we do it.
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It's like, man there, you know, there's so many people that are
18:30
grateful for what you do and they won't tell you thank you
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and they won't tell you the impact just because we don't we
18:36
don't do it either. By the way, you know, as adults,
18:37
we don't tell every barista and store clerk and DMV person
18:42
thanks and appreciate what you do, you know, because if they
18:45
don't do what they do, you can't do what you do.
18:46
So so it's easy for us not to say something, but there are so
18:49
many people, so many eyeballs that have you've affected that.
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It's amazing. So I love this, you know, just a
18:55
tiny part of your track career and it was an impact.
18:59
You mentioned your coaches pushed you and, you know,
19:02
motivated you. Can you think of a story of a
19:05
time in high school where, you know, it's funny because we're
19:08
different people, right? Who we were 1418 year olds is
19:10
not who we are now today is, you know, 30 and 40 year olds was
19:15
there. Can you think of a story of, you
19:16
know, where there is you didn't want to be motivated that day
19:19
or, you know, thank God they were there or I was going to
19:22
quit. Track anything that comes top of
19:24
mind. Yeah, so there's a story I've
19:26
I've told it quite a few times and I was triple jumping triple,
19:29
you know, you have the long jumps and then you have the
19:31
triple jumps and the meet had gotten way behind or whatever.
19:34
I was the last one still going and my parents read almost every
19:38
meet, like a lot of times went home with them afterwards and
19:40
stuff. And the coach just, you know,
19:42
said I probably said something to my parents or whatever first.
19:44
It was done completely tactfully and you know, good and
19:46
everything, but you know, like, hey, can, you know, can the bus
19:48
go home and then you take it, you know, whatever.
19:50
Because everyone's. And I made a comment about,
19:53
well, I want the whole team to come watch me.
19:55
I've had to be here all. I want everybody to come watch
19:57
me. And my coach told me if I wanted
20:00
people to watch me, I should play basketball.
20:03
Which I did play basketball, by the way, but it did just kind of
20:06
put in perspective a little bit it's you know, and, and that is
20:10
a little bit track and field. There's definitely been times in
20:12
my life as a coach and stuff. I said, you know, I, I wanted
20:15
administrator here. I want more people, you know,
20:17
and it just well, then I guess I should have been a better
20:20
basketball player. And it is just and I think we
20:23
can take that into life in different instances and stuff
20:25
like that. Like we all want a crowd.
20:27
We all want. And you, like you said,
20:29
everybody wants to be told thank you and everybody wants to have
20:33
eyes and stuff on them. You know, like everybody wants
20:35
that type of stuff. And like you said, we work a
20:38
thankless job and there's times, you know, I think we do things
20:41
as coaches and things. And you think like, well, it
20:43
would have been nice if they would have just said thank you
20:45
or they would have. But you know, I it's Ron Swanson
20:51
on Parks and Rec made the comment.
20:52
You can't work a thankless job and expect to be thanked.
20:56
Oh, first of all, I am pretty sure in 300 episodes it's the
20:59
first time Ron Swanson has been quoted.
21:02
So bravo, there's always. He should be more often we
21:05
should in our everyday life. He.
21:06
Should be and that is a really good like that's kind of when I
21:09
was like, Oh yeah, I am. If I'm in a thinkless job, I
21:12
shouldn't be expected to be thanked.
21:13
Yeah. Yeah.
21:13
I think that says something about like what intrinsic
21:16
motivation versus extrinsic motivation.
21:19
Yeah, yeah, I was kind of thinking something similar to
21:22
that this weekend too, where, you know, some coaches will rail
21:26
on the other aspects of our jobs that we don't necessarily like
21:28
paperwork and compliance, maybe things like that.
21:31
And it's like, oh, then I don't think you knew what the actual
21:34
job was then, because that is part of the job.
21:36
The the the job is not. You're just only on the track or
21:38
at the throwing ring. Like you.
21:40
There are recruiters. Actually, coaching is the reward
21:43
of the job. Going to practice eating to go
21:45
to meats, that's the fun part of the job.
21:48
Yeah, the other stuff is the job.
21:50
Yeah. And we think we get into it to
21:52
just do those fun things and it's like, Oh no, no, that's a
21:54
part. But there are other aspects of
21:56
the job. Yeah, that's a good point.
21:58
That's a good point. All right, so as you're going
22:00
into senior year and you start thinking about colleges and
22:04
maybe competing and things like that, talk to me about so that
22:08
process of, of, of college and picking it.
22:11
And what I'm really interested at this point in your life is
22:14
what are you thinking about majoring in so that you can
22:16
become like, oh, I'm going to be, I'm going to major in
22:18
business because I'm going to own a business.
22:20
Like I, I, I don't necessarily hear that, you know, coaching at
22:23
this point. And I could be wrong that that's
22:25
even in your mind. Yeah.
22:26
OK, so talk to you about the college kind of choosing aspect
22:30
and what were you thinking as a 1718 year old?
22:32
I want to become. Well, I thought I wanted to be a
22:34
nurse. OK, I'm not smart enough to be a
22:38
nurse. And I say that in the most
22:40
respectable way of all nurses, not the the student athletes
22:44
I've had that go through nursing and go through are brilliant.
22:48
You know, the nurses you know we deal with when we go are
22:50
brilliant. And I thought I wanted to be a
22:52
nurse. And good thing before I even
22:55
started, I got pulled out of that because I wouldn't have
22:58
made it there. But I did start looking at
23:01
schools with nursing programs. That is what I started and I
23:04
wanted Division 2. I knew I wasn't I, you know, I
23:08
thought that's the level I could compete at.
23:10
I knew I wasn't going to be Division One.
23:13
You know, I didn't think that was the case and I thought
23:14
Division two I was looking for nursing programs and then
23:18
looking for good multi coaches because I knew I wanted to be a
23:21
multi and that wasn't necessary. You know, that's not something
23:25
that every school necessary. They may have them and stuff
23:28
like that, but I wanted a multi coach.
23:31
So, so pause right there for a second because you just said two
23:34
things like some I'm trying to picture Anne as a 17 year old
23:37
kid and you know, I give a lot of grace to young people because
23:40
they need it and I need it and I certainly know I needed it as a
23:43
17 year old. You just kind of said two things
23:46
that are pretty a large self-awareness that I'm not sure
23:51
I don't think I had as a 17 year old, but I'm not sure many 17
23:55
year olds 1 is the aspect of like okay, I like nursing, but I
24:00
don't know to your words, I'm not smart enough.
24:03
You certainly are, but all the other aspects into it.
24:06
That's a pretty. I think my parents told me I
24:08
wasn't smart enough, so maybe I shouldn't.
24:10
I was lucky in the sense that I have parents that are extremely
24:13
honest with me and they definitely didn't sugarcoat
24:16
stuff and tell us that. I think they stepped in and said
24:20
no, that's not. Not a surprise that they raised
24:23
at least three kids. Very.
24:24
They're all successful now. They were right there.
24:28
OK, so hey, for self-awareness, we need to have help with that.
24:30
So I love that. But then on your college choice
24:33
one, and again, this is a conversation that's, you know,
24:35
it's ongoing every day. And I was just in the muck of a
24:37
conversation on Twitter over the last 24 hours about the Dewarner
24:41
bust. You kind of right off, right off
24:43
the bat, self assessed said, OK, probably not, you know, so you
24:46
must have done some research of like, OK, this is kind of what
24:48
it takes to jump or do multi Division One.
24:50
Here's what it takes to division two.
24:51
You probably maybe look to Division Three.
24:53
You know, where are you growing up?
24:54
By the way? I didn't even ask that you said
24:56
that. Vermilion, South Dakota.
24:58
Yep, so so you know, grade D3 in any IE school.
25:01
So maybe you're looking at all those and you kind of like OK,
25:03
division two and then here's another extra little step you
25:06
took, though, Anne is you were like, OK, it seems like combined
25:11
events is not necessarily like, you know, maybe air quotes.
25:14
I can go anywhere to long jump, but combined events.
25:16
Maybe there's some specialty I need to look for that speciality
25:20
again for a 1718 year old kid, this is a little I just know it
25:24
just feels like this little higher thinking here.
25:26
So I. University of South Dakota is in
25:28
my hometown, which up until that point was a division two, but I
25:34
knew they were going to move over to Division One in anyways.
25:37
I probably would have went to the University of South Dakota.
25:39
Lucky Huber, phenomenal coach. They had good multis and stuff
25:43
like that. I went to all their camps and
25:46
stuff like that. So I think that was a huge, you
25:48
know, a huge help in seeing that.
25:51
That's what I wanted. But I, I also knew that I, you
25:55
know, I knew I didn't want to go Division One.
25:57
I'd wanted, I wanted to be able to go to national championships
26:00
and hopefully contend for national titles and do things
26:03
like that. And I didn't foresee that being
26:07
possible at that next level. Again, I think I mean you just
26:12
described the majority of track athletes, right, Not, you know,
26:15
the majority of track athletes are not Division One out of high
26:18
school, but a lot of those kids still think they're going
26:21
Division One, you know. Remember there wasn't really
26:24
social media when I was, I didn't have a Facebook till I
26:27
was in college. And I think that was a huge
26:30
thing is that I didn't have people chirping in my ear.
26:32
Well, what do you mean you're not going to go Division One?
26:35
What do you mean you're not going to go?
26:36
You know, like, and I, and I think that's, I think it's a
26:39
huge deterrent to some kids. I mean, I know we talked to kids
26:42
and you know what, you know, at the junior college level, I'm
26:45
coaching Division One level kids.
26:47
We had three kids at the in the Division One finals that were at
26:50
Iowa Central in the last two years.
26:52
You know, we are coaching Division 1 caliber kids.
26:54
There are Division 1 caliber kids at D2 and D3 in NAIA and
27:00
there are Division One kids, kids at Division One schools
27:04
that wouldn't be the top kids at NAI in Division Three in
27:07
Division 2. So I just think this D1 in
27:10
bustmental, like you said, it really both because you got to
27:13
pick, I mean the best school for you, the best coaches.
27:15
There's so many other things that go into it.
27:18
And I think you made a great point about people chirping in
27:20
your ear. Again, we're talking about 17-8
27:23
year old kids. I think like I, I think about
27:26
sitting around parent circles. And if I'm sitting around on my
27:29
parent, my parenting friends and I, you know what sounds better
27:33
for me as the dad in this scenario that, hey, my kids
27:37
going to Harvard or my kids going to our local community
27:41
colleges, Parkland Community College, Which one do the other
27:43
parents go? Oh, Harvard, you know, they
27:45
don't go. Oh, Parkland, I'm sorry, they
27:47
don't. So I wonder sometimes because we
27:50
keep railing against the kids having the do you wanna bus?
27:52
But then I wonder like, well, first of all, what, what are
27:55
the, what are their parents chirping at them and uncles and
27:57
aunts and and then their other 17-8, you know, friends who
27:59
maybe aren't athletes. They just know, again, use that
28:02
example. Harvard and Parkland, you know,
28:04
I, I wonder again, I just give them so much grace and I'm like,
28:06
man, I don't care if a kid thinks he supposed to go to Iowa
28:10
and Iowa State and and he only jumps 21 feet, you know, it's
28:13
like, OK, it's cool that he attains to go.
28:16
That reality is you're not. So maybe you need to go to
28:19
junior college developer. Maybe you need to go to Division
28:21
Three or any whatever. I've certainly I'm not going to
28:24
kick the kid for wanting to go to Iowa or Iowa State.
28:27
I just I don't know. I don't know.
28:29
No, and I think, you know, you didn't have the people doing the
28:33
gear reveals. Online.
28:35
And you know, you didn't have all that stuff.
28:36
You know, that's a question we get all the time.
28:38
What am I getting is gear I get you want to get gear you want to
28:41
get. But like there wasn't any of
28:43
that exposure back. We'll just say back when I was
28:46
getting ready to go to, you know, like none of that type of
28:49
stuff was on my radar. Yeah, that's another great
28:52
point. And who is creating this stuff?
28:55
Who's creating the problem? Is it the kids?
28:58
Because they think they wanna go Power 4 or whatever or all the
29:02
schools? And I know Power 4 does this but
29:04
I know a lot of other non power fours I do this that do the
29:07
uniform reveals and it's like wait a minute, you're adding to
29:10
the the same problem here guys. No, but I think there's
29:14
definitely stuff in coaching and things and things with our
29:16
social media that we do that I don't necessarily love, but at
29:19
the same it's everyone else is doing it.
29:20
And that's what the, you know, our social media is for recruit.
29:24
As we say, our number one thing is to connect, you know, with
29:27
our alumni and keep up with our alumni and stuff.
29:30
But it's it's for recruiting purposes as well.
29:33
And yeah, sometimes I wish kids, you know, we talk about and we
29:35
can get into the deep dive of Community College and you know,
29:39
I, I know you are, you know, you're a fan and stuff and how,
29:42
but like, how do we convince these kids to come to Community
29:44
College and that developing for those two more years and stuff.
29:48
And, you know, there's definitely the stigma that, you
29:50
know, people only go to Community College because they
29:52
can't get into a four year college and stuff like that.
29:55
I I just what I was doing right before we got on was making our
29:58
graphics for the coaches association academic all
30:00
Americans. And we have multiple kids, 4
30:03
point O's that are going on and maybe not even doing track and
30:06
field and stuff and are going on and going to the major Division
30:09
One schools and stuff now. And they were smart out of high
30:12
school. And isn't it way smarter to come
30:15
to Iowa Central where it is going to cost them way less to
30:18
get their Gen. eds and stuff and then go on and they're, they're
30:21
getting the best of both worlds and stuff.
30:22
And you know, I don't know how we sell that though, because
30:25
there's so many people we talked to and so many.
30:27
And I talked to coaches and stuff too.
30:28
They're like, you know, that kid would be a great fit for junior
30:31
college, but their parents won't even right.
30:34
They're not, it's not like you can talk to them, but it's not
30:36
worth your time. Yeah, because parents.
30:38
That's not what the parents. Want.
30:39
That's what I think. It's the ego of the parents
30:41
what's best for the kid, right? Yeah, absolutely.
30:43
And they just don't see, you know, they don't see what we
30:45
have to offer. Yeah, until they absolutely drop
30:49
dead needed. And then sometimes it's too
30:50
late, boys and girls, that's the problem.
30:53
OK, so where did you end up going to school and multi?
30:57
What is your major name? You know, it's funny when you
30:59
said I was looking for a place that had culture, I was like, I
31:02
was like, I almost said, so you looked at Central Missouri then,
31:04
right? Yeah.
31:05
So you're you're a Jenny. I am a Jenny, yes.
31:09
Oh, I've never actually been able to call an A Jenny.
31:12
That's awesome. There we go.
31:13
Yes, So I am a Jenny. Yes.
31:14
So to Central Missouri and I majored in public relations with
31:19
a minor in corporate communications and then
31:21
ultimately got to my masters in Mass communications and now I
31:25
coach nothing. Nothing in the coaching realm
31:27
whatsoever. Why communications though?
31:30
What were you thinking? So when I decided I well, I had
31:34
already decided I was going to Central Missouri and I wasn't
31:36
going to do nursing anymore. And my parents are like, well,
31:39
just go look at the majors and pick one.
31:40
I guess. Like I.
31:43
Love your parents dude. Yeah, you should have them on.
31:45
Yeah, no. Joke.
31:47
But yeah, so you know, I looked and again with the University of
31:50
South Dakota being in my hometown, a lot of family
31:52
friends that were professors and worked at the university and
31:54
stuff like that. And it was actually my pastor's
31:56
wife was, I don't know, she was chair of the communications
31:59
department at the time, but she was at times and stuff and she
32:01
was in communications and she's like, you'd be perfect, You'd be
32:03
perfect. Go into communication.
32:05
She goes, it can, which is so right.
32:07
It can go in so many different, you know, like so many different
32:10
ways you can go with communication, so many different
32:12
industries you can work in with communications and stuff.
32:15
So that's, that's why, yeah. And I, I picked my major at
32:20
before I started and I stuck with the same thing the whole
32:22
way through. Didn't switch, didn't pick my
32:24
mate, might not have picked my minor right off the bat, but
32:27
once I had my minor I didn't change it.
32:29
Name a name a profession that communications isn't important
32:33
and improved communications wouldn't be a huge help.
32:35
I can't. But not a single job, right from
32:38
president to my waste management guy, Communications is essential
32:42
to all that we do. So I do love that.
32:45
I was a I was in the communications department, print
32:47
journalism and public relations. So same, you know, agent to
32:50
that. OK, so you get to Central
32:53
Missouri. So it's Kip, your coach.
32:55
Yep. Oh dude, wow, that tells me a
32:57
lot about you. Positively right off the bat.
33:00
That's awesome. Love him.
33:02
You get there. So you go focus all in on
33:05
combined events then. Yes, I was going to be a multi
33:07
eventer from the. That's what I was going to be
33:08
from the get go. Any setbacks that's a those are
33:11
that's a any one event is tough. The combined event as one event
33:15
is extremely tough. Any setbacks during the career?
33:19
Yeah, I mean, I think every injuries and you know, different
33:22
things I ultimately in. So I redshirted because we knew
33:31
they were gonna add the pentathlon.
33:33
So the pentathlon at the division two level was not an
33:36
event when I indoor pentathlon was not an event.
33:39
So my freshman and sophomore year, it wasn't an event.
33:42
I redshirted so then I could have two years ultimately went
33:48
on and got my masters and stuff because of that.
33:50
So it ended up being, I mean, maybe didn't have everything
33:53
figured out before, which maybe my parents weren't very happy
33:56
about and I didn't maybe listen to him in that sense.
33:59
But it ended up it ended up working out great.
34:00
So maybe again, not don't listen and everything will still work
34:03
out, but I had some things figured out.
34:06
But yeah, I, you know, I got mono, which it is hard because a
34:10
lot of it takes a long time to figure out.
34:11
That's what you have. You're just tired, you don't
34:13
feel good and it takes a long time to recover, you know.
34:16
So that was, you know, probably one of the lots of little
34:18
things, little hamstring things and stuff.
34:20
But I had done all the events and I think that was the huge, a
34:25
huge change. You know, I I turned into a
34:27
spinner from a glider in the shot put so that that, you know,
34:30
that took a lot and stuff, but. That's interesting.
34:34
How was that for you? Because you know, I know for I'm
34:40
going to say true throwers, sorry and you know what I mean,
34:43
somebody doing shot put, you know I'm.
34:45
Yes 100% you are fine. The changing from glider to
34:49
spin, like there's I think someone's putting together like
34:52
a an educational thing about Chase Ely, who I guess went from
34:58
all through college. I think she was a a power
35:02
thrower, glide thrower and then move to suspend analysis.
35:07
You know what number two ever or something or two in our country,
35:09
something like that maybe #1 and I think, wow, that's going to be
35:13
really hard. Like, you know, it's the it's
35:15
same event, but two totally ways to skin the cat, if you will,
35:19
for someone who doesn't specialize in it.
35:23
You're you're, you are also learning.
35:25
You have all these other events that you're learning, the
35:26
javelin, the the hurdles, maybe things like that.
35:29
How was that for you to to learn going from a glide to a spinner?
35:34
Yeah, it definitely, I mean, there was definitely a lot of
35:37
frustration with it and a lot of times and it is and talking to
35:40
some throws coaches and stuff, you know, it is it's harder to
35:43
line it up, it's harder. It's maybe a little bit more
35:45
inconsistent and stuff, especially like you said,
35:48
somebody that's maybe throwing one or one, maybe 2 * a week.
35:51
I'm not. Luckily we had, he just retired
35:55
phenomenal throws coach and Tucker Wosley at Central
35:59
Missouri, so I was able to work like with him a lot too.
36:01
And you know, we were lucky for the most part, our multis and
36:07
throwers got along, which in the time I've been and talking to
36:10
other isn't always the case, but they loved like taking us on,
36:14
you know what practice and stuff.
36:15
So maybe we were done for the day, but the throwers were just
36:17
getting started started Tucker taught full time.
36:20
So they didn't get started at the high school level.
36:23
Maybe the middle school in the not at the college taught full
36:27
time. So they didn't throw till later.
36:28
So sometimes we'd stay after and throw and stuff.
36:30
And very lucky, one of my roommates was a national
36:34
champion shot putter and stuff too.
36:36
So very, you know that we had that extra work and stuff that
36:39
we could do. I think sometimes, you know,
36:42
people learn in different ways and I think one of the ways that
36:45
you start working on mastery of stuff is you start teaching even
36:47
though you're not a master of yet.
36:49
I bet you guys, you multis who were learning, you know, I feel
36:54
like these like like fledgling birds trying to learn how to
36:56
fly. And here's these eagles and it's
36:58
like, oh, them help, you know, kind of giving you cues, help
37:00
them understand what they needed to be doing as well.
37:04
So I could see that kind of mutually beneficial relationship
37:06
there. I would, I mean, I've never
37:08
thought about it like that way, but like it definitely yeah, I
37:10
would definitely say that that probably yeah to break down and
37:14
and maybe sometimes too. I think it's good for now as a
37:17
coach, student athletes, when they're helping other students
37:20
seeing like the frustration that comes in the coaching realm to,
37:23
you know, like, like, you know, you, you're trying as hard as
37:26
you can and you can't figure out why the coach is mad at you
37:28
because you're trying as hard as you can, but they're trying as
37:31
hard as they can too. And we're all just people.
37:33
And you know, you know, as a, from a coaching standpoint, you
37:36
know, I've explained it three different ways.
37:37
I don't know why you don't get it.
37:38
And from the athletes standpoint, it's like, well, I,
37:40
I, I swear I'm doing what you're saying.
37:42
Right. But you say I'm not.
37:45
Yeah, that's a great point. And and and every did every
37:50
multi. Was it automatic that they
37:52
learned how to spin there or no? OK, good.
37:55
OK, Because I was thinking like, you know, friend of the pod and
37:59
friend of mine, Ashton Eaton, you know, he famously not only
38:02
did he, he didn't even do the sly like he, you know, did a
38:05
what did I don't know what they call it the crow.
38:06
Hop back or step back or step back.
38:09
But I don't know if that's what it's called.
38:10
And it was like, you know, there was no one more athletic than
38:13
Ashton, but him and Harry, you know, made a decision of like,
38:16
well, we only have this much time and we we need to be, you
38:19
know, we can get way better in the 100 and the long jump and
38:21
things like that. So let's do the absolute best we
38:24
can with the limited amount of time.
38:26
I think he would have been a phenomenal, you know, when I say
38:28
phenomenal, not in the context of Joe Kovacs and Ryan Krauser,
38:32
but you know, would have been a a very good capable multi shot
38:36
putter if he would have just done shot put.
38:38
But then he wouldn't have, you know, run 10/1 and long jump 20,
38:41
you know, 8 meters plus and things like that necessarily.
38:44
So it's interesting that when you talk about that frustration
38:47
of coaching that each athlete is different, even though they may,
38:50
you know, they say you get to have athletes there.
38:53
Six of their events could be the exact same.
38:55
They both they both long jump the same, they both 100 meter
38:57
hurdle the same, etcetera. But in the shot put it's like,
39:00
Oh no, maybe 1 is ready to try to learn the spin and the other
39:02
one needs to stay where she is. There.
39:05
They are different people. Every one of your kids are
39:06
different people, right? Yeah, that sucks.
39:09
Sometimes That's like right here.
39:11
I'll be the same. The good one, be like the good
39:13
one. So at any point it's amazing you
39:16
had Kip and you know, I know Central Missouri had many, many
39:19
other amazing coaches there as well.
39:21
So you're kind of in like a not just a track.
39:25
I don't say Mecca necessarily, but like a, a a like you had
39:27
strong track coach like coaches, coaches, coaches there at at any
39:32
point during college. Is is the idea of coaching
39:35
coming into mind at all well? Kip would tell me that I should
39:38
be a coach. Oh, and I'd say, no, I wanted,
39:42
I, like I said, public relations.
39:43
I wanted to go into crisis communication.
39:46
I wanted to work for my kind of ideal job.
39:49
I thought I wanted to work for a firm that did crisis
39:52
communication. So major companies have crisis
39:54
communication. People write in a crisis
39:57
communication firm would go into like a company that didn't have
40:00
one or maybe step in when things got, you know, really crazy.
40:03
And again, the idea of it's different all the time.
40:05
That's what I need. I can't.
40:07
Sit in an office and have things and that's what I liked, so
40:10
that's what I thought I was going to do.
40:11
How did you find that that was even a job though?
40:15
You know what I'm saying? Like.
40:17
Like also I had very good, a lot of our communication professors
40:20
had been had worked out in the workforce and then came back
40:23
into teaching and stuff. So I would say it had something
40:27
to do with that. I guess I don't really know.
40:29
Yeah, I was curious, you know, when you get past like the top
40:32
five most maybe not the most common jobs, most commonly known
40:35
jobs, lawyers, doctor, you know, maybe sales guy or something
40:38
like that. When you get into like this is a
40:39
you get a very specific path or vision anyway of like, oh,
40:43
crisis control, Love that. Oh, I need to be not necessarily
40:47
in this the one big company waiting for the crisis to have.
40:50
I need to be somewhere like like, oh, there's crisis over
40:52
there. OK, I'll go over there now.
40:53
I got to go over here like you again, kind of self-awareness of
40:56
you. You knew like, oh, I need to be,
40:57
I need to have 10 things on my plate.
40:58
I can't handle one thing on my plate.
41:00
I need to the. It was a multi eventer.
41:02
I didn't do one event, I did. Seven.
41:04
I need 7, right? Yeah.
41:05
Yeah, exactly. OK, But you got, I mean, I
41:09
almost feel like ordained, knighted by the coach, Kemp
41:13
says. You should be a track coach and
41:16
you kind of push back a little bit.
41:18
Yeah, I just didn't think that's like I said, I I thought I knew
41:20
what I wanted to do, right? So when did it?
41:23
When did it start turning? So it's December, I'm going to
41:27
graduate with my master's in May, and I have my parents tell
41:31
me I have to go find a job. So I start applying for jobs and
41:33
I don't want to do anything I'm qualified to do.
41:37
Now I have, you know, this bachelor's degree, I'm going to
41:39
have a master's degree and I don't want to do any of the
41:43
stuff. And the job at Edinboro,
41:46
Pennsylvania pops up early. So it was I in like April, I
41:51
went and interviewed, which is very early for a track coaching
41:54
position and stuff. So that position popped up and
41:57
Kip just, and I said I don't know.
41:58
I don't know if I want to coach. I don't.
42:00
Kip said just go do it. Go do it for a couple years.
42:02
Go do it for a couple years till you figure out what you want to
42:04
do and what. Here I sit 15 years later.
42:06
Yeah, yeah, he's so good. He knew he's like, well, just
42:10
get her hooked, we'll be good. Because in track, you think
42:11
about it the way you're explaining, you know, your kind
42:13
of your thought press and stuff. I mean, that is track coaching
42:17
there. There is no one single thing
42:18
only on your plate at any one time.
42:20
If you are, you're only coaching.
42:21
I don't know, one kid somewhere. I don't you're pro coach of a
42:24
marathon or I guess I don't know even that has a lot of stuff on
42:26
their plate. You you have not only the kids
42:29
in front of you, but office work, recruiting, I mean,
42:33
billion, billion things. So, so he knew he was like,
42:35
yeah, just go, just try, just try.
42:37
It was one of his best recruiting jobs actually to get
42:40
you into coaching for. Crime.
42:41
There we go. Yeah.
42:42
But you didn't do any. Like a lot of times similar
42:46
esque stories of yours I'll hear.
42:48
Like, you know, I helped. I'd go home for the summers and
42:51
help out with the local club. Or you know, they're in Central
42:55
Missouri. Was it Warrensville,
42:57
Warrensburg, Warrensburg. In Warrensburg, I'd go over and
43:01
help out the local high school. I'm not hearing that you did
43:03
any. So I, you know, I did my four
43:07
years of my undergrad and then in my fifth year, I had my red
43:10
shirt year. So I was still competing in my
43:12
fifth year and then in my like sixth year when I was finishing
43:15
up my master's program, then I was a volunteer coach, but I
43:18
still competed and stuff like that.
43:20
So yes, I I did do, I did coach then.
43:25
But not when you started doing that six year, you know, help
43:28
out because, you know, you're done with your eligibility, your
43:31
grad school, see those classes, things like that.
43:33
I'm not hearing or even feeling that like, Oh, you know what,
43:36
Mike? And that really like when I
43:38
started, when I turned from, you know, and the athlete to coach
43:41
Cleary, like I felt I didn't. I'm not hearing that
43:44
necessarily. No, and I also my, I had a grad
43:48
assistantship, but I, my grad assistantship was in the
43:49
communications department and I taught public speaking.
43:52
So I wasn't like not that I mean, I had some jobs and things
43:56
I got and you know, things like that, but I wasn't like the grad
43:59
assistant in the communication. I mean, sorry in the on the
44:01
track and field team or anything like that.
44:03
So. So Edinburgh comes available
44:05
Kip, you know, almost like the the little bird in the nest,
44:08
like no, no, just go, go, go, go try it.
44:10
So you now that's far away from home 2.
44:13
Yes, it's all yes. No concerns.
44:17
I guess not really and there probably should have been cuz
44:19
I'm kind of a homebody and that, you know, like, but I just made
44:22
that my home so I could be a homebody there.
44:25
So no, I was all yeah. So you take the job in Edinboro
44:29
and now was it cuz that you know now is your this is your first
44:33
full time coach you you are coach Cleary.
44:35
This is the job the. Assistant women's track and
44:38
field coach. So how?
44:39
How did that go? I think all right.
44:43
You know, when I asked that question, I don't mean I don't
44:46
mean like how many all Americans do you coach?
44:47
So how was, you know, now the lifestyle changes, you know,
44:51
longer student athlete that itself transitioning from
44:55
athlete to non athlete can be a very I think in and to some
45:00
degree it is hard for anybody to one day, you know, Friday you
45:03
show up at practice, maybe at a meet or whatever, and then on
45:05
Monday you just don't because you're not on the team anymore.
45:08
You know, the season's over. That can be hard because we we
45:11
make it our identity. You know, we're we're I'm I'm a
45:13
hip athlete. That's an identity, right?
45:15
We forget like no, I'm Ann, I'm Ann 1st and I do the hip Athlon,
45:18
but it becomes our identity. Now you become coach Cleary,
45:21
which is another identity. By the way, you're still Ann
45:23
First you happen, your profession happens to be
45:26
coaching, but now you are the coach.
45:28
So you're you're out there. You, you had your own group
45:31
Maybe so you don't have Kip, you know, hey, go give them this
45:36
workout like you, you have to write the workouts that that's
45:38
when I say, how'd it go? That's what I meant.
45:40
How did that transition? I think it's interesting you
45:42
made the comment earlier is that I think, you know, a lot of
45:44
people that are in coaching don't realize everything that
45:46
goes into coaching. And I've always said in every
45:49
step, you know, from being just the student athlete to being
45:52
kind of the volunteer assistant, we'll put in quotes.
45:55
You know, I got exposed to a little bit of the office work
45:57
and a little bit of the backside and a little bit of the, one of
46:00
my least favorite things that I've been working on here
46:02
recently, hotel reservations and things.
46:05
And just, you know, I got brought in a few times on, you
46:08
know, issues with student athletes and stuff.
46:11
And you know, as a student athlete, obviously you realize
46:14
there's issues, there's things, but you never have to like solve
46:17
the problems or not solve the problems, you know, and I feel
46:21
like that probably takes place more than not.
46:24
Is that like there maybe isn't a real solution to the problems
46:29
and stuff like that? And every step, you know, from
46:32
going to that volunteer assistant to going to the
46:36
assistant coach, then and then I, you know, took over after two
46:40
years, I became the director of cross country and head track and
46:43
field coach and again, another, you know, jump.
46:46
And I just think you don't know. And I, I don't know that there's
46:49
any way that to prep people or like, you know, I've tried to
46:52
summarize this, but it just, there isn't because some of that
46:55
stuff pops up and you do it. And I think some of this stuff
46:57
we don't even realize necessarily that we do because
47:00
we just do it. Right.
47:02
And then I think that's a maybe not a big issue.
47:07
Maybe that's not the right word. That's an opportunity for our
47:11
coaches. I, I see this a lot, you know,
47:13
and you know, kind of what I do, you know, my whole thing is
47:15
advocacy of coaching in the profession of coaches.
47:17
So the people that become coaches and how do we make that
47:20
better? How do we make your job better,
47:22
which pay and all that job satisfaction is all part of
47:25
that. And my experience talking to,
47:28
you know, coaches around the country every day is we're not
47:31
doing a we're not doing an adequate job of preparing our
47:36
assistant coaches for future head coaches jobs, right even
47:39
down to the Gai. Don't know that.
47:42
You know, GA to me should be a very try outish period.
47:45
Like I wish more people when they finish their GA in track
47:48
and field didn't go into coaching.
47:49
That sounds terrible. But what I mean by that is it
47:52
should be like you should have the option to go or no, go to
47:56
that profession. You're getting a grad program in
47:58
something that, you know, biology teaching, whatever.
48:01
That should also be an option for you.
48:03
It it is. But we we just automatically
48:05
assume like, Oh, you GAD for a track.
48:06
Well, that means you went on to become a track and field coach.
48:10
But there should be an out there.
48:11
But even in the GAS, I think they should be more involved in
48:15
well, hey, you know, here's what I do as the head coach or here's
48:17
what I do as the position coach that, you know, you're assigned
48:20
to scheduling, budgeting, equipment purchasing, academic,
48:26
whatever. So they start seeing like, oh,
48:28
wait a minute, I thought I just had to be on the track and, you
48:32
know, yelling splits and writing that stuff down.
48:35
I thought when I went back to the office, all I had to do was
48:36
write workout. That's what the office is for.
48:38
That's where I write the workouts.
48:39
Like, oh, no, no, buddy, that's that's I think you said earlier,
48:42
that's the fun part of the job. You know, writing workouts and
48:44
implementing them. The job is these other hundred
48:48
things that you have to do. So you were at Edinburgh for two
48:52
years and then became the head coach, the director.
48:55
OK, I love this. First of all, you know, OK, you
49:00
have great self-awareness and so let's see how you answer this.
49:02
Were you ready? No.
49:04
OK, good. Thank you.
49:05
But I will say I, I, you know, so I worked under Doug Watts,
49:10
phenomenal, phenomenal coach. So I mean, like I said, I had
49:13
Kip, I had Doug, I, I worked under Dee Brown.
49:16
Not like I so lucky for the people.
49:20
And you know, you talked about like stuff in, you know, you're
49:22
I know you're big in coaching education and the coach
49:25
association stuff. People that were so big in that,
49:28
like just kind of the behind the scenes and the inside I've
49:31
gotten because of them. No, I think I knew I wasn't
49:36
necessarily ready, but you just hear Horror Story, you know,
49:40
like I knew who I was going to work for when I went to work
49:43
for, you know, like I interviewed or that position
49:46
with him as a head coach. If they just brought in another
49:49
head coach, I don't get a say in who my boss is.
49:51
You know, when you go to be an assistant coach, to an extent
49:55
you get, you know, like I could have turned, I could have said I
49:57
don't want to work there. I don't have any choice.
49:59
Yeah, You know, I think maybe didn't vet it as much as I did
50:02
when, you know, two years ago when I came to work for Dee
50:05
Brown where I called multiple people and asked about, you
50:08
know, and things like that. But you have that choice.
50:10
And yeah, I was just kind of worried.
50:11
So I just kind of said, you know, you know, take it or leave
50:14
it. You either need to promote me or
50:16
I'm going to leave. And and no hard feelings either
50:18
way. You know, I was what, 26 years
50:20
old and and actually phenomenal AD Bruce Bumgardner.
50:24
I don't know, you follow wrestling at all.
50:25
Yeah. Yes.
50:27
So he was my AD. I was going to say I know that
50:29
name. So really, is that right?
50:31
Big legend? I mean, legend.
50:33
Legend. Yeah, four times.
50:35
Wait a minute. Wait a minute.
50:36
So this is a big dude. And, you know, it could probably
50:38
beat me up with this pinky. And you looked at him and was
50:40
like, look, man, do you promote me?
50:41
Don't hit me or that. Probably wasn't that cocky, but
50:45
that's kind of the way it went. But Bruce also, Bruce is a
50:47
phenomenal ID and I always felt like I could actually talk to
50:51
him. That's.
50:51
Cool, that's great. So it was and it, you know, I
50:54
was just, but he brought me in after they had promoted me and,
50:58
you know, said very, you know, like, you know, he's like, I've
50:59
been to conventions. I've done, he goes.
51:01
One of the biggest reasons for women getting out of coaching is
51:04
because we promote them too early to too young and too early
51:08
for jobs they're not prepared for and we burn them out And we,
51:11
you know, like, and he's like I, I kind of feel a little bit like
51:14
we did that with you. So come and talk to me.
51:17
Always come and talk to me. My doors always open.
51:19
I might tell you no, any what there was times I went in and
51:22
I'd get done and he'd be like, OK, are you venting?
51:25
Are you like, yeah, are you looking for a solution?
51:28
Are you like, what are you? And I'm like, I don't even know.
51:31
But like, I, I never felt like I couldn't go and talk to him.
51:34
And I, you know, I still have something would come up.
51:37
I still feel like I could pick up the phone and call him.
51:40
I I was just this weekend was at a convention for athletic
51:44
directors and I don't have a lot of necessarily contact.
51:46
You know, obviously coaches, right, but this was 100 ADS of
51:50
colleges around the country and was really struck by some of the
51:54
speakers about like, hey, we're leading coaches and athletes and
51:59
and what you just said there about like for him to have that
52:03
awareness of like, hey, I don't know if we're doing that
52:06
necessarily here with you, but I'm concerned you.
52:08
Probably said we did, yeah. But but I'm saying like instead
52:12
of just like, hey, Anne, I gave you the job.
52:13
Go do the job like I could. I could easily see an AD saying
52:15
that, right? Like, hey man, you wanted the
52:16
job? You do all the time.
52:18
Right, you told me you want the job, go do the job like you
52:20
know, but even the like the that form of question of like here.
52:23
So are you venting? Are you wanting to like, I love
52:26
that. Like, so let me know what you're
52:28
looking for me and I can operate in them.
52:29
Like that's that's some high level empathy for your coaching
52:33
staff there. That's that's respectful from
52:35
him and he could have just body slammed him.
52:36
That's the amazing part. He could just be like, get out
52:38
of here. Yeah, my project is stiff.
52:40
Yeah, it wouldn't have. Yeah, it wouldn't have taken
52:42
much. How many years did you spend as
52:44
the head coach of Edinburgh? I was 10 years. 10 years, OK, My
52:49
favorite question I ask this of everybody when they get their
52:52
first head coaching job, when we get to that part of their
52:54
journey, the 1st and they're very similar questions.
52:56
The first question is, as you look back now, what was
53:00
something as you stepped into the head coaching position?
53:03
What was something you thought was going to be hard that ended
53:06
up actually being easy? Oh gosh, something I thought was
53:13
going to be hard. So as you're thinking about
53:16
that, so you know, you went in thinking like, oh, you know
53:18
what? I got to set my own budget.
53:20
I've never set a budget before. And then you got.
53:21
My budget was ridiculous. I almost got in trouble couple
53:25
times my first couple years. I hear that not almost.
53:27
I think I probably did get in trouble.
53:29
And then something you thought like, oh man, I didn't know I
53:32
was going to have to go sit on committees to hire the coaches.
53:34
That's then you got there and you're like, oh, actually I kind
53:36
of have a knack for that. I think it's, it was a lot of
53:41
like the transportation and like travel and stuff like that.
53:45
Hotels, there's just so much to goes into it.
53:48
Like I say, I feel like all we do when we go on trips, like
53:51
national trips and stuff like that is roommates and feed.
53:56
All we do is feed them. All we do is eat the entire
53:58
time. I swear I'm like.
53:59
Scheduling meals? Yeah.
54:01
Can't we take a meal off? How can you guys be hungry
54:04
again? But I think it was some of that
54:06
stuff. And maybe, you know, like I
54:07
said, not realizing it to the aptitude now, you know, I sit
54:10
down and do my itinerary and it's every lunch and every, you
54:13
know, like breakfast usually at the hotel and then every lunch
54:16
and every dinner. And there were a couple times I
54:19
forgot meals early on. You can forget a lot of things.
54:22
Don't forget meals. They all survived.
54:24
They all, you know, they all always survived.
54:27
That's right. That's right.
54:28
OK, the inverse is my next question.
54:32
So you get named the head coach. You, you, you think you know
54:35
what that means? You've had head coaches.
54:36
You're like, oh, I know what Kip did you know?
54:38
And you thought like, oh, you know what's going to be easy?
54:42
I'm gonna just this budgeting, it's gonna be super simple.
54:46
And then you got into it was like, oh, I didn't know.
54:49
This is what the real job was. What what, what did you think
54:51
was gonna be easy? And you like, oh, I, I had to
54:53
learn something about that. I think and I, I still, I still
54:56
struggle with this at times is kind of managing assistance is
55:01
that I don't, you know, say be friends be but like, I think
55:05
because I'm so much, I'm gonna go do stuff and I'm gonna go
55:08
that I'm not always great at giving instructions and giving.
55:12
And sometimes it's like, well, what do you mean you didn't do
55:14
XY and Z? Like I didn't, you know, I talk
55:16
about, you know, we talked about before that, you know, like you
55:19
couldn't even write down all the things you do.
55:21
If somebody said write down your job so we can give your job
55:24
description, you could never do that.
55:25
And I think that's at times that I'm, I'm, you know, managing my
55:29
assistants. And that is an aspect when I
55:33
talk about. I don't, I believe it's a missed
55:35
opportunity of helping assistant coaches become future head
55:39
coaches is when you become a head coach, there's no training
55:43
of hiring, firing, evaluating staff.
55:46
It's like, oh, hey, you're the head coach.
55:49
Maybe you have to immediately start answering the question,
55:51
like, what do you want to do with the people that are hired
55:53
right now? You get the choice.
55:54
You can let them go. You can keep them.
55:55
Oh, you got a A slot open. Yeah, go hire someone like, I
56:00
mean, what, what what does that mean?
56:02
I mean, I know, OK, I know I need a throws coach.
56:03
OK, that helps. But what am I looking for?
56:06
Am I just looking for someone who's nice?
56:07
Like I get along with that might be a part of the, the, the, the
56:12
once, but that can't be the only part of the description that
56:16
matches, you know? But we, we don't do any training
56:18
of that with our track coaches. And I'm probably afraid that we
56:21
don't do that with any of our sport coaches, but track
56:24
specifically, we don't, we just put you out there and say go
56:26
hire. Oh, and and figure out how to
56:27
fire if you, if you have to get to that, you know, evaluation, I
56:30
should really say evaluation that fire, but evaluation so
56:32
that if you do have to get to that point, you've done all your
56:35
ducks in a row of what that means.
56:37
None of that is in training until you're in the muck and
56:39
have to actually do it. And then it's that's a little
56:41
too late. You're up against the pressure
56:42
at that point. Yeah, I heard and I, I'm pretty
56:44
sure it was another sports coach they always talked about.
56:46
You know, you always have to have in mind who your next
56:48
assistant's going to be, who your next.
56:51
And I'm like good luck with that because I don't know any track
56:52
coaches that can do that. I could tell you who I wanted,
56:55
but do they wanna come to Fort Dodge?
56:58
Is our pay better? Is our situation?
57:01
You heard them say that. I don't remember.
57:02
And I think it was a basketball coach.
57:05
And I just kind of laughed. I'm like, well, that's great.
57:08
That's that's great if you're at Duke and everybody wants.
57:10
That job, that's great. I was like, that sounds like a
57:13
power for like, okay, I got some options when I'm at Vanderbilt
57:17
or Georgia or whatever. When I'm at Iowa Central, it's
57:19
like, okay, I know who I'd love to hire, but you know what the
57:22
pay is X or we're in Fort Dodge. Fort Dodge is not for everybody.
57:25
Yeah. There's just so many things that
57:27
go into and I think hopefully a lot of coaches, you know, I talk
57:30
to a lot of people that I'm happy where I'm at.
57:32
I don't need 5000 more dollars. I'm happy.
57:34
And there's so much that goes into and I talk to coaches and
57:36
talk to, you know, do you like your administration?
57:38
Do you like, you know, things like that?
57:39
And I don't need a $10,000 raise to be miserable.
57:43
I don't need, you know, like if you're in a good position, if
57:45
you like where you're at, like, you know, don't young coaches
57:49
don't leave a good situation for a few extra $1000.
57:52
It will not be worth it. Dude, this convention that was
57:55
just at and probably by the time you're listening to this, this
57:59
is maybe already run as a bonus episode.
58:02
I got to record a few of the ADS and their presentations that I
58:05
thought would be applicable to our to our audience, to some of
58:08
our audience anyway. And the first one, the very, in
58:11
fact he was the very first presentation of the whole show
58:14
was Mike. I think it's Herman.
58:16
He's the athletic director at University of Illinois
58:18
Springfield. And he was talking about the
58:21
things that he requires from his staff and his head coaches of,
58:24
you know, they they have to be involved in some kind of charity
58:27
in the area United Way, whatever Salvation Army you get to pick
58:30
for his basketball coach as an example, he makes the basketball
58:33
coach, you have to know every head high school basketball
58:37
coach in the county like you, you know, all these kind of
58:40
things, right? And I was like, oh, I wonder and
58:42
I meant to ask him this. I was like, I wonder if that
58:46
type of community engagement with his staff and coaches that
58:50
that just has to have a, a positive effect on, on coaching
58:55
retention. Like when I, when I think about
58:57
like the way you said that just a minute ago, maybe think about
59:00
it when you're like, oh, I'm waiting to take this other job
59:02
for 5000 and I'm not, you know, for some people, you know, kind
59:05
of where you're on that pay scale.
59:06
And trust me, I know track coaches, this may be doubling
59:08
your salary, sadly, but instead of, you know, $5000, which at
59:12
the end of the day after you take out taxes is, you know,
59:15
we're talking about a couple hundred a month is what you
59:17
really are netting. Is it worth it?
59:19
I built a community. I built neighbors.
59:22
I know, you know, I know people at the church.
59:23
I know people at this charity that I sit on the board or
59:26
whatever, you know, I know all the high school coaches in the
59:28
county. I think it helps keep your
59:31
coaches, your retention rate until the hopefully, you know,
59:35
I'm getting a $50,000 raise pay. That's real money.
59:39
You can go find community somewhere else too, brother.
59:41
Good luck. Go.
59:41
God bless you for that. You know, but it just makes me
59:43
think about that, you know, I guess it goes back to, you know,
59:47
what's the old saying? Grass is greener, their sides
59:49
like, yeah, well, maybe because there's a lot of manure over
59:51
there. If you got a good situation,
59:53
man, you got to really start thinking hard about at the end
59:56
of the day, what is really 5000 for the year again?
59:58
It's, it's, it's, it's $100 a month.
1:00:01
I mean, is that, is that really worth it?
1:00:02
Does that, is that worth the gamble?
1:00:03
You're really gambling because you don't know what you think
1:00:05
that other situation is. Well, that's, you know, during
1:00:08
interview processes, just like you are, everyone's on their
1:00:10
best behavior. You're not learning anything
1:00:12
about people through that, you know, So that's again, you know,
1:00:16
I talked about, you know, I but you know, when you go somewhere
1:00:19
that you don't call you, you should be interviewing them as
1:00:22
much as they're interviewing you and you should be doing kind of,
1:00:26
I don't want to say background checks, but reference.
1:00:28
There we go. That's the word reference, you
1:00:29
know, kind of your own reference checks on, you know, people in
1:00:32
your community, you know, and track and field, But I don't
1:00:35
think any sports community is that bit, you know, people know
1:00:38
people and you know, how do they how do they act when things
1:00:41
didn't go their way at the meet? How did they act when an athlete
1:00:44
didn't do what they were supposed to do, you know, like,
1:00:46
and and is that are those values going to line up with your
1:00:49
values? I've been, you know, very lucky,
1:00:52
you know, with Doug Watts and now with Dee Brown, that I feel
1:00:56
like our our values and the way we wanted to treat athletes and
1:00:58
the way we were. You know, we're looking to, you
1:01:01
know, develop the entire athlete, not just trying to, you
1:01:05
know, make them better athletes and ship them on.
1:01:07
Especially at the Community College level, there's some
1:01:09
places that they're doing that. They're just trying to push
1:01:12
people as high as they can so that it looks good on their
1:01:15
school. That's definitely not what we're
1:01:16
trying to do, and I just think that's so important that you
1:01:20
know your staff's values align because it's not going to work
1:01:24
if they don't. I think more people should pull
1:01:27
themselves out of the job interview process than they do.
1:01:30
No one does. They get told, Hey, we're not
1:01:31
moving on, but more people to your point about they should be
1:01:35
interviewing the job as well that the the job giver and and
1:01:40
be real. Like when you say you, I mean,
1:01:42
gosh, understand you, you nailed it because what you, what you
1:01:45
deal with there? As you know, hiring and
1:01:47
evaluating assistant coaches, we same thing when I'm hiring and
1:01:50
evaluating our, our, our sales team here when we get into
1:01:53
interviews and I'm just like, all right, so I've got Anne, the
1:01:56
interviewee in front of me. I don't want to talk to Anne,
1:01:59
the interviewee, the Anne and the interviewee is sitting up
1:02:01
straight and is trying to figure out what is this person looking
1:02:04
for so I can act like that. And it's like, dude, I just want
1:02:08
to know Anne, because if Ann isn't gonna fit in here, I don't
1:02:11
wanna give her the job because she's gonna be miserable.
1:02:13
I'm gonna be miserable. No one wins.
1:02:15
But if I get the real Ann, it's like, yeah, man, Ann's gonna
1:02:18
kick butt here. She's gonna be happy.
1:02:19
We're gonna be happy. Like, we need to get to our real
1:02:21
sales, even if that air quotes cost us the job.
1:02:25
You know what I'm saying? Hopefully in the long run it's
1:02:27
better for every. Like you said, it's better for
1:02:29
everyone. It may.
1:02:30
And both yes, be. Better for some people to not
1:02:33
get jobs and to not because they're definitely yeah.
1:02:36
And both the interviewer, we're playing a stage a Broadway here
1:02:41
is like, well, I'm the interviewer here, so I need to
1:02:44
you know, and you know, when we look at our long jump coaches,
1:02:47
we let you know who are you like, Hey, Anne, so tell me
1:02:50
more, Tell me how you coach. Let me hear that.
1:02:52
Like be yourself so that again, Anne can be like, oh, I don't
1:02:55
like, I'm not sure I could deal with Mike style every day.
1:02:58
And you know, it's coaching. We're going to be pretty into
1:03:00
it. We're going to be see each other
1:03:01
a lot. I'm not sure this is the right
1:03:02
job for me because again, you're not going to be happy, which
1:03:04
means I'm not going to be. We just need to start being more
1:03:07
real in our interviews and again, telling our removing
1:03:11
ourselves. Like, hey, you know what, coach?
1:03:13
I mean? I'm so grateful you thought I
1:03:15
need to bring you in. I'm gonna take myself out of the
1:03:17
running. It's just not the right fit for
1:03:19
me today and move on. I'd have so much respect.
1:03:21
Someone said I'd actually probably beg them for another
1:03:23
interview. Like, whoa, this is the kind of
1:03:25
attitude I want in life. Hold on, man, let's go through
1:03:29
around 2. All right, It's just, it's
1:03:31
amazing. This game we play for very high
1:03:34
stinks, by the way, This is your career, your profession as a
1:03:36
paychecks that help you know, your family and passions and
1:03:39
charities and things. So it's it's amazing to me.
1:03:41
All right, so you're Edinburgh, you're the head coach.
1:03:43
What is what's the first thing you do?
1:03:47
And and when I say that, I mean like, you know, you knew you
1:03:52
want to either be the head coach or you know, or I need to go
1:03:54
somewhere else. So was there, did you already
1:03:57
start having a vision of what Anne Cleary's head coach of
1:04:01
Edinburgh, what that program looks like?
1:04:03
Did you already start having that and what was maybe some one
1:04:04
of the first things you put into motion?
1:04:06
So with Doug and you know, Doug was the had track and field head
1:04:10
cross country, but he was cross country and I was track and I
1:04:12
was very fortunate, even though I was young and he, he let me
1:04:16
run my program. So I, you know, he, you know,
1:04:18
for the first couple months and stuff, he wanted to see
1:04:20
workouts. There was times he said which
1:04:22
100%, you know, I had no problem.
1:04:24
I would have no problem with giving him everything all the
1:04:26
time. You know, that's when you're the
1:04:27
assistant coach that that comes with it.
1:04:29
But he let me run my program and let me.
1:04:31
So from kind of that track and field side of things, I don't
1:04:34
want to say maybe there wasn't as many major changes because I
1:04:37
was already getting to at least run my event groups and stuff
1:04:42
like that. And it was only the two of us.
1:04:45
So I ran the 400 meters in Dow Wow.
1:04:48
In the field events we did have, we had a volunteer pole vault
1:04:50
coach. Yeah.
1:04:52
So I was doing it all. So I hate that.
1:04:56
Yeah, you know. What I'm saying like not not
1:04:58
giving you the support you need. You need that.
1:05:00
That'd be like saying, yeah, we're gonna have a football
1:05:02
team. You're the offensive coach,
1:05:03
you're the defensive coach. Go yeah, no one ever does that.
1:05:07
But yet we do have track and field all the.
1:05:08
Time track and field all the time.
1:05:09
There's so many, you know, there's so many, Yeah.
1:05:11
And it's, and, you know, obviously there's no way a coach
1:05:15
can't be. There's only so many hours in
1:05:17
the day. But at the same time, depending
1:05:18
on your school, there's only so many hours you can really
1:05:20
practice too. You know, I, I was fortunate
1:05:23
some semesters that we'd get, you know, small pockets of kids
1:05:26
and we'd be able to have a practice at 11:00 in the morning
1:05:29
and, you know, 2. And then there's times that I
1:05:31
wasn't, and we were running two different practices that should
1:05:34
have each had a coach at him at the same time, you know, things
1:05:36
like that. So, But yeah, it is, you know,
1:05:39
it is too bad in our sport that yeah, that, you know, we can.
1:05:43
When a school talks about the desire to have a great student
1:05:46
athlete experience and then does that, and I'm sorry, I'm not,
1:05:49
I'm not picking on Edinborough, but I also don't allow for the
1:05:53
excuse to be like, well, you know, we, we don't have the
1:05:56
resources that Penn State had. And it's like, I don't think
1:05:58
that I agree with that, But you have priorities.
1:06:00
I guarantee you there was a, an extra staff member at this sport
1:06:03
that didn't need it or an extra amount of budget over here that
1:06:06
you didn't need. Like it was priorities on what
1:06:08
they did for, for their budget. And, and by the way, you can
1:06:11
insert Edinboro, you can insert a lot of other institutions.
1:06:15
I just feel like if you are going to have a team, any team,
1:06:18
specifically track and field we're talking about here in
1:06:19
cross country, but any sports team, you should support it.
1:06:23
That is, that is my pet peeve with institutions is the ones
1:06:27
that say, yeah, we, we've got track and they've got 2 coaches.
1:06:29
Oh, and by the way, I expect you to have 100 kids.
1:06:32
Oh, and I expect you to be on this committee and I expect you
1:06:34
to balance your budget, which doesn't sound like you did and
1:06:36
but others. I just didn't do that.
1:06:38
Parks didn't have time. That's so that's why I just
1:06:40
didn't do that. That's right.
1:06:42
Oh, and by the way, we would love for you to have a personal
1:06:44
life and maybe have a spouse and children, things like that, that
1:06:47
that you know, that's just free time, right?
1:06:48
That you just don't even need to count for those hours.
1:06:50
No, that those are big hours as well in your life and high
1:06:52
priority. So that's just my pet peeve.
1:06:54
You were saying something. I cut you off.
1:06:57
I don't remember, oh, but you know, from that standpoint,
1:07:00
maybe I got to implement a little bit more of me.
1:07:03
But one of the things that, you know, I really enjoyed is, you
1:07:07
know, I was the assistant women's track coach, but then
1:07:09
when I took over, I was the director of cross country.
1:07:11
We had a cross country coach as well.
1:07:13
I got to be so much more involved in the cross country
1:07:15
side of things and so much and I, you know, like I always kind
1:07:18
of say it's, you know, when I'm with the track kids, I kind of
1:07:20
have to be the mean coach and we have to do things, you know, we
1:07:22
have to, you know, do what we're supposed to do and all this
1:07:24
stuff. And then the cross country, I'm
1:07:26
just like hanging out and I was usually getting yelled at by the
1:07:29
head track coach or the head cross country coach because I
1:07:31
was the one having side conversations with the kids and.
1:07:34
Stuff because you're not coach. Because, yeah, because I'm not,
1:07:36
you know, like. Yeah, I've seen it.
1:07:39
It's not your. You're not like, OK, I get ready
1:07:40
for the workout. No, you're just there to assist.
1:07:42
And you tell me I'm just. There, Yeah.
1:07:43
Oh, you need me to hold a stopwatch.
1:07:44
You need me. I'm just here.
1:07:45
So. Yeah.
1:07:46
So there were lots of times All in all, my assistant coaches,
1:07:49
like we hate when you're at practice.
1:07:53
It's more you're more of a distraction than you are help.
1:07:56
But that's kind of, you know, that's that's you know, it kind
1:07:59
of gets to be the fun side of things because when I'm, you
1:08:01
know, at my long jump practice at my it's, you know, we're you
1:08:03
know, we're going to warm up and we're going to do this.
1:08:04
I'm just shouldn't say I'm the mean coach, though.
1:08:06
My athletes probably feel that way too.
1:08:08
But but yeah, but that's like kind of, you know, when I get to
1:08:11
do the fun stuff because I'm not the one in charge at that time.
1:08:15
So that was, you know, kind of a fun change and things like that
1:08:19
and something the way we're structured and stuff.
1:08:22
I still got to do some stuff with the cross country team and
1:08:24
stuff, but with our larger team and things like that, I don't as
1:08:26
much at Iowa Central. It's definitely something I
1:08:29
miss. I like just hang it getting to
1:08:31
go hang out. As you, you said 10 years at
1:08:34
Edinboro, I think right. As you look at those 10 years,
1:08:37
look back at it now, how did you grow as a coach during that
1:08:40
time? What are some things?
1:08:41
And you look back like, oh man, at the end of 10 years I was
1:08:44
better at X or Y&Z. I think I was much better at
1:08:49
listening and kind of taking constructive criticism even from
1:08:53
athletes. I think that's very important.
1:08:55
It needs to be constructive in the right way.
1:08:57
And I always tell kids is that I also get like, if what you're
1:09:02
like, 'cause you know, sometimes you get kids.
1:09:04
Well, you're never at our practice and you're always at
1:09:05
this practice. And I'm like, well, that's
1:09:07
actually not true. If you look at this, I'm at this
1:09:10
practice three days a week and this practice two days a week,
1:09:14
and then we practice it another time.
1:09:15
So just because I'm not at your practice two days a week and
1:09:18
when I'm not at your practice, I'm at this practice.
1:09:20
So I always said, you know, like it's, it's not fair to get, you
1:09:23
know, to say, you know, to say things and not get to see the
1:09:26
bigger picture because like you said, as a student athlete, as
1:09:28
anybody, as an assistant coach, you don't see the whole picture.
1:09:30
As, you know, I go in and complain to my AD that, you
1:09:32
know, football and basketball have this and I don't.
1:09:35
And they're like, well, no, that's not true, you know,
1:09:37
because again, I don't see everything.
1:09:40
But I think I've become so much better at being able to sit and
1:09:43
listen, even, you know, to athletes, you know, assistant
1:09:46
coaches, athletes and stuff is, you know, where, where can I
1:09:49
make changes? How could I have done that
1:09:51
different things like that? Again, all within reason.
1:09:55
But I think I've become much more understanding and grown in
1:09:59
that that I can listen and we can make changes and stuff.
1:10:02
And maybe again, you know, what kind of goes the same, but like
1:10:05
if there's athletes that have done something a certain way, a
1:10:08
thing that I definitely would not have done 10 years ago, 12
1:10:12
years ago, if there's an athlete that's struggling now, I bring
1:10:14
him in. And what did you do in high
1:10:16
school that worked? What did you do at your other
1:10:18
school that worked and why? You know, why is it just growing
1:10:22
pains? Is it just your freshman year
1:10:25
and everything's different and everything, you know, is it just
1:10:28
that or is it that you don't work in my, you know, like my
1:10:33
program doesn't work for you And is there, is there adjustments
1:10:36
we can make that make it work for you?
1:10:38
And I don't have a problem doing that.
1:10:39
Any, you know, like whereas, yeah, 1012 years ago it was, you
1:10:43
know, kind of the my way or the highway and this is the way
1:10:45
we're gonna do it and you fit into my program or you leave.
1:10:48
Well, that doesn't necessarily need to be the way it is 'cause
1:10:51
we can make adjustments and we can not that we can run 15
1:10:54
different practices, but you know, you can be a little bit
1:10:58
different and you can do things a little bit different than
1:11:01
someone else. Share with me a story of how you
1:11:05
learn that. And what I'm thinking about here
1:11:07
is it's probably not something that was acute, meaning
1:11:10
something, you know, very specific, like, oh, athlete X
1:11:14
came in and I was ready just to tell him or her.
1:11:17
Well, then this is not the program for you.
1:11:19
And I, you know, I was struck by lightning and I realized, wait a
1:11:22
minute, I should listen to this person.
1:11:24
It's usually like, you know, after a frustrating season, I
1:11:27
took a step back or I had a mentor.
1:11:29
I was talking to a mentor. My AD was like, hey, here's
1:11:32
something I'm noticing when I observe, share the story of
1:11:34
like, because you had to learn that you talked about you're
1:11:36
better at the end of 10 years as you were in a year 0 from that.
1:11:39
How did you how did you learn that?
1:11:41
So I used to try to always do and now it's a little harder
1:11:44
with the way our we're set up, but and I have so many more
1:11:47
kids, it becomes a little harder.
1:11:48
But I used to do, you know, exit interviews at the end of every
1:11:50
year with students and with the kids that were graduating.
1:11:54
And, you know, I kind of said, you know, you're leaving now.
1:11:56
Be brutally honest. And I think at that point too,
1:12:00
they're older and more mature. You know, it's not an 18 year
1:12:03
old that thinks, you know, it's a 22 year old that says, you
1:12:05
know, you did this, this and this really, really good.
1:12:08
But this is what we were missing, you know, and if you
1:12:09
could just tweak. And I had a couple different
1:12:11
kids, you know, come in and say, you know, at times and I was
1:12:14
really struggling. I, you know, I didn't feel like
1:12:16
I could come in and we know when and, and I don't feel that way
1:12:19
now, but when I, you know, was a freshman or I was a sophomore, I
1:12:21
felt that way. And as I got to know you and we
1:12:24
got a better relationship then I didn't feel that way.
1:12:27
But like, you know, what can we do to make me feel that way when
1:12:31
I'm a you know, when I'm early on, like I said, and something
1:12:35
with freshmen are growing pains too.
1:12:37
Freshman year, the high school to college jump is a big jump
1:12:41
and there's so many things that go into it that have nothing to
1:12:45
do with track and field. Right.
1:12:47
How? You know, I like to say that ego
1:12:49
is not bad. Bad ego is bad, right?
1:12:52
Ego helps us, you know, dress better, one more responsibility
1:12:59
job. You know the ego, you know
1:13:01
that's good ego. Bad ego is my way or the highway
1:13:05
and things like that. So how did you, when you you
1:13:08
start getting some of these, you know, brutally honest and, and
1:13:11
I'm sure you're the type of person that, as you heard a
1:13:13
senior say this go man, I wish you would have had, and I get it
1:13:16
that you didn't, but I wish you would have had the maturity to
1:13:18
tell me that in your freshman year, like maybe we could have
1:13:21
had a, you know, the first couple years could have been
1:13:23
great, like the last couple years were.
1:13:24
So how did you, as you, you hear this, because sometimes that's
1:13:27
hard. You know, that's hard to even
1:13:28
for a kid. You're like, man, I don't care.
1:13:30
Are you gone? I'll never see you even for
1:13:32
that. It's like I, you know, there's
1:13:34
still like a little bit of an arrow that comes at you.
1:13:36
How did you stave off the defensive side of it of that
1:13:42
person's wrong? Why they are so wrong?
1:13:43
They they don't get the whole pic.
1:13:45
They don't know everything that I'm going through and really
1:13:48
open up the oh, I should listen to this.
1:13:51
And maybe there's they may be wrong.
1:13:53
That's still absolutely, you know, maybe that individual, but
1:13:56
maybe they're right. So maybe I should look into how
1:13:59
did you, you know, stay away from the defensive.
1:14:02
I'm right, you're wrong and really be open and humble
1:14:05
yourself. How did you do that?
1:14:07
Well, I think it was, you know, a couple of them came in and,
1:14:09
you know, we kind of talked about the good and the bad.
1:14:11
So it wasn't, you know, you always talk about when you try
1:14:13
to go tell somebody you need to make it a sandwich, you need to
1:14:15
tell somebody something good, then tell them something bad and
1:14:17
then sandwich it. So I think it was done because
1:14:19
it was done in that way. And then they were athletes at
1:14:22
that point. You know, they've been there for
1:14:23
four or five years. And I'd had such a good
1:14:26
relationship with them that I knew we grew past that.
1:14:30
And then it's just figuring out, you know, like you said, how can
1:14:33
that happen earlier? And so a question I like to ask
1:14:38
now a lot in sometimes it's in disciplinary situations,
1:14:41
sometimes it's in other situations and just kind of get
1:14:44
their perspective of things. If how you know, question is,
1:14:50
you know, you pretend you're the head coach now, what do you
1:14:52
think your punishment should be? What how do you think I should
1:14:55
punish your teammates? How do you think?
1:14:58
And sometimes, too, that helps me see, you know, like in some
1:15:02
cases, one, do they really understand the gratitude of
1:15:06
what? Because I've had kids before.
1:15:07
They're like, I had a kid a couple of years ago that was,
1:15:11
well, if other kids did it, they should be punished.
1:15:13
But I shouldn't because I didn't understand.
1:15:16
And I was like, OK, you just proved to me that you don't
1:15:18
like, you still don't understand.
1:15:20
You don't. Understand.
1:15:21
Yeah. And those kids, I think you said
1:15:23
you don't understand. But, and I've also have kids
1:15:25
that are like, you know, I should sit out of a meet or I
1:15:28
should sit out or I should sit out.
1:15:29
And then in some cases that opens up to have a conversation
1:15:33
and maybe they don't even need a punishment at that point because
1:15:36
they get it. And that's something, you know,
1:15:38
what 26 year old Coach Ann would not have done, you know, like it
1:15:41
would have been you're sitting out of a meet.
1:15:43
This is a rule. And obviously some some things
1:15:45
we do, we have some black and white rules that aren't it.
1:15:48
It doesn't matter that you admitted that what you did was
1:15:50
wrong. And what you know, we have some
1:15:51
black and white rules, but a lot of what we do is not black and
1:15:54
white. And I always tell kids that, you
1:15:56
know, every, every situation is handled differently because
1:16:00
every person is different and every person handles a situation
1:16:03
differently. Had great example that happened
1:16:05
one time when I was at Edinburgh.
1:16:06
We had morning practice a lot and I had two kids that miss
1:16:09
morning practice. One of them text me.
1:16:12
It was I think the first time they've ever missed practice.
1:16:14
They text me about 10-15 minutes after practice.
1:16:17
I'm so sorry, I overslept. I already checked your calendar.
1:16:20
The you know the schedule and there's another group in there
1:16:23
at 11:00. I don't have class.
1:16:25
Can I come make up the workout? Yes.
1:16:27
Another kid. Nothing all day long.
1:16:30
They've missed lots of practices.
1:16:31
They've this is a common they show up to practice the next
1:16:34
day, all practice nothing. I have to pull them aside at the
1:16:37
end of practice and say, why did you miss practice yesterday?
1:16:40
Those two situations were not handled the same.
1:16:43
The you know, the the initial thing they did wrong was exactly
1:16:46
the same. But, you know, the one kid, I
1:16:49
bet him waking up and realizing he was late was probably
1:16:53
punishment enough. And then the whole situation was
1:16:56
resolved. The other kid, the situation was
1:16:58
technically never resolved. He never made-up that practice.
1:17:00
He never, you know, it just went on with his day like nothing
1:17:05
happened. So but yeah, I think that's, you
1:17:08
know, when talking to some of these kids and then realizing,
1:17:11
yeah, that sometimes, you know, sometimes the stress of them
1:17:14
having to come and tell us what they did wrong and stuff is, is
1:17:17
punishment and and. It, it's hard to teach ourselves
1:17:22
like it's, it's rare that we can actually teach ourselves stuff,
1:17:25
right? It has to, you know, in a
1:17:26
traditional sense of education has to come from a book or
1:17:29
professor. Some things have to come through
1:17:31
a life experience. But a lot of times in our
1:17:34
profession of coaching, it comes from because we have people who
1:17:38
made those mistakes before us. We have mentors, whether it's an
1:17:41
athletic director, a former coach, coach that you've gotten
1:17:45
to know through your own career. As you think about I love this,
1:17:49
you know, I really appreciate your just openness and
1:17:51
authenticity, authenticity over this growth that you had
1:17:54
specifically here at Edinboro because because I can see where
1:17:57
it is. It is paid, paid off in spades
1:18:00
for the rest of your career, like here at Iowa Central and
1:18:03
will continue like this was a, you know, maybe you don't think
1:18:07
of it every day of like what a pivotal part of my career.
1:18:08
But this is an obviously pretty important growth for Anne, for
1:18:13
Coach Clary here was there was there that that mentor?
1:18:18
Was there someone? You know, you're like, man, I've
1:18:20
got a couple of arrows slung at me.
1:18:23
Hey, coach, you know, you know me better than anybody or, or
1:18:26
mom, dad, you know, there's mentors come in all form of
1:18:29
fashion. Was there someone or is there
1:18:30
someone today? Like you're like, Oh yeah, you
1:18:32
know who's on my speed dial, man?
1:18:33
I call Joe up because he'll let me talk his ear off.
1:18:38
And then he gives me that one word nugget advice that just
1:18:41
sets me off. Anybody like that during this
1:18:42
time or I don't? Know that there's I've been 1,
1:18:45
you know, I've been fortunate when I had some assistant
1:18:47
coaches, stuff like that. And I'm still really big on
1:18:49
telling kids, you know, like I need to go talk to the other
1:18:52
coaches or I need to go talk to. And sometimes it's just, you
1:18:55
know, even saying it out loud or it just helps to either one have
1:19:00
somebody say, you know, you're in and many of them you know
1:19:03
you're overreacting and that's, you know, and like you've got to
1:19:06
have people in your corner that will be honest with.
1:19:08
You kind of a a gut check is what I'm hearing.
1:19:10
Like, hey, assistant, here's what I said.
1:19:13
You just made a face. You think I stepped over there?
1:19:16
Let me know now, OK? Yeah.
1:19:17
So I'm also very lucky. My husband was a Division 2
1:19:20
basketball coach for 23 years. Wow.
1:19:22
So yes, so a lot of, you know, all of the same, we all have the
1:19:26
same issues. We all you know, so obviously
1:19:29
some of the track and field things, maybe not as much, but
1:19:32
yeah, some of the kind of personnel or the disciplinarian
1:19:34
stuff like. They're kids, they just play a
1:19:36
ball instead of front track. Yeah.
1:19:38
Yeah, exactly. You know the difference there.
1:19:40
But I, I do try to always, I don't even necessarily want to
1:19:44
say sleep on it. Maybe that's not always, you
1:19:46
know, but you know, I, you know, I need to run this past someone
1:19:49
else and I'll get back to you or I need to.
1:19:50
I try not to unless, like I said, it's some of our black and
1:19:53
white, you know, we have. A0.
1:19:54
Alcohol policy on Iowa Central's campus if you were caught with
1:19:57
alcohol, you were out of the next meet, no questions asked.
1:20:00
No, there's no, you know, there's.
1:20:02
No due process. There was alcohol in your dorm.
1:20:05
That's it. There's no say.
1:20:06
There's not a due process, but it's black.
1:20:08
And white, it's already processed.
1:20:10
Yeah, I don't have to run that past anyone and stuff, but yeah,
1:20:13
some of the other issues. And like, like, you know, like,
1:20:15
you know, we said that everybody is different and every situation
1:20:17
is different and how kids handle situations are different.
1:20:20
You know, it's it's interesting and kind of special to me when
1:20:25
we have someone who's a coaches kid, you know, their their mom
1:20:27
or dad was a coach. Here's a pretty unique and I I'm
1:20:31
sure we've had this before, but it just it kind of really just
1:20:33
strikes me with you. So you're a almost at a coach's
1:20:38
spouse, but he's a coach's spouse too.
1:20:39
You're you're a, you're a coach's couple.
1:20:42
There we go. Yeah, now that's work.
1:20:43
He now he works in academic advising now, but yes.
1:20:46
But but we're give me a little bit of a timeline.
1:20:50
So cuz I'm kind of like in my head, I'm in the middle of
1:20:52
Edinburgh. We're getting close to.
1:20:53
Yeah, no, we were in. We were married for six years
1:20:57
when I was at Edinburgh. OK, so during.
1:20:59
So we met at Edinburgh. Yeah, yeah.
1:21:01
So that's interesting because, you know, I think of, you know,
1:21:05
I have so much respect for spouses of track coach and all
1:21:08
coaches. But, you know, again, I I focus
1:21:09
on track, right. Like, I remember meeting, you
1:21:13
know, Pat Henry, Texas A and MI met his wife.
1:21:15
I know of him. Yeah.
1:21:16
Yeah. I believe her name is Judy.
1:21:19
I think she was Mrs. Henry to me.
1:21:21
But I met them in a elevator once and I looked at her and I
1:21:25
said, you know, because, you know, they've been married
1:21:27
forever. I love it.
1:21:28
It's just, I mean, it's the sweetest thing in the world.
1:21:29
And I asked her. I was like, so did you, you
1:21:33
know, were you into track before you and and Pat met?
1:21:36
And she's like, oh, no, never. And I was like, I sure, surely
1:21:40
hope you have like, learned to love track because she's at all
1:21:42
the meats, you know, she's there.
1:21:43
I was like, like, do you like it?
1:21:45
Now she's like, oh, yeah, it's so great.
1:21:48
And I was like, man, you know, Missus Henry, you've been at all
1:21:52
of the, you know, Pat's been there and he's working, you
1:21:53
know, he's, he's coaching and, you know, hustling and bustling.
1:21:57
She's, and I'm sure she could probably help the team out.
1:21:59
But you know, I just picture her just, you know, she's sitting in
1:22:01
the stands watching the, you know, whatever team LSUANM,
1:22:04
whatever team, you know, she was at the time and, and, and just,
1:22:07
you know, being there and supporting Pat in many, many
1:22:09
ways. And so for spouses of coaches,
1:22:11
like I have a, a huge part in my, of my heart for them and,
1:22:15
you know, and they're gone. And for she went to, I think, I
1:22:17
don't know when she started, but she goes to all the meets now.
1:22:21
But I think about just spouses that can't, you know, whether
1:22:23
it's children or they got their own jobs and things like that.
1:22:26
So, so a coach is gone all the time and you're, you know,
1:22:30
you're, you're left holding the bag.
1:22:31
You're the one that's holding the household down.
1:22:32
So spouses are amazing. Here are two spouses.
1:22:36
One's track basketball has its own, They're gone a lot.
1:22:38
There's a lot of freaking basketball games.
1:22:39
And they got a freaking recruit and everything too.
1:22:42
How did, how did you 2? I always kind of ask things
1:22:47
crudely, how did you handle this?
1:22:48
Like, how did you find your groove?
1:22:50
Maybe that's the right way to say it.
1:22:52
You know, like, man, you're gone for these three days because
1:22:54
you're recruiting and you got a tournament.
1:22:56
I'm going to be Drake Relays. I'm gone for the week or
1:22:58
whatever. Like how did how did, how did
1:23:00
you find groove with another person who we know how busy
1:23:03
coaches are. They're also that busy then.
1:23:06
A lot of babysitters, a lot of so you know, we're fortunate
1:23:10
it's, it's a different, you know, we're at a four year
1:23:12
school. We lived .8 miles from campus.
1:23:16
So it was super easy for kids. You know, even if somebody had
1:23:19
to walk over somebody had to, you know, you do things like
1:23:22
that. You know, it was super easy for
1:23:25
us to have sitters and stuff. But yes, had to be very
1:23:27
organized with babysitters and things like that.
1:23:30
It is it is much easier now that he's in academic advising and is
1:23:34
off every day at 4:00 and I am not.
1:23:40
So it has made our our lifeway way easier in that aspect.
1:23:44
But yeah, it just was a lot of yeah, of organizing and figuring
1:23:48
out, you know, babysitters and things.
1:23:51
And you mentioned babysitting. I appreciate that you kind of
1:23:54
give me the door open then to ask that.
1:23:57
I don't know if it's an obvious question, 'cause I, I sometimes
1:23:58
wonder and maybe struggle is the right word.
1:24:02
You know, I sit in the seat that I sit in, meaning I'm a white
1:24:05
male, all right. And so like one of the question,
1:24:09
I think I've, I think I'm betting 100% on this because I
1:24:12
kind of made it on my mission that every time I interview a, a
1:24:17
coach who's a female that I don't ask.
1:24:20
So what's it like coaching guys? You know, because I would,
1:24:22
because it never would occur to me to ask a guy coach.
1:24:25
Well, what's it like coaching women, right?
1:24:27
So I've like made it my mission. Don't ever ask that.
1:24:32
However, I, I, you know, in society, I don't think this is a
1:24:36
bias. I think this is society, whether
1:24:37
it's right or wrong, and maybe it tends towards the wrong side.
1:24:42
There is. I don't know if it's undue.
1:24:46
Maybe it's undue Expectations is the right word of the woman in
1:24:49
the relationship, though, to be of the mom of the relationship.
1:24:54
Yeah, the mom, the wife who becomes the mom.
1:24:56
I'm asking so awkwardly now, and that's OK, You're OK.
1:24:59
Is is that there's expectations of the.
1:25:00
Well, first of all, there is a maybe undue expectations of just
1:25:03
the wife itself, you know, dishes, dinner, etcetera.
1:25:07
And then with the mom, it's even more of like, well, yeah, dad's
1:25:10
there to support, but you take care of the child, right.
1:25:13
So how how did you and were there discussions of maybe not
1:25:18
how did you handle as you start, you know, family planning,
1:25:21
having child children? I'm going to keep a career.
1:25:25
I'm not going to keep a career. Boy, you're a basketball coach.
1:25:28
Maybe I don't need to work. Hey, I'm a track coach and I
1:25:30
don't know that I could do anything else but that.
1:25:32
So I am going to stay working. How did whatever you feel led to
1:25:37
share? How did you handle And that's
1:25:39
see that sounds bad because it's your child.
1:25:40
How did you handle having a kid like?
1:25:42
No, but it is it, it is, it is. It was way easier before, you
1:25:47
know, because now you have somebody else to worry about all
1:25:49
the time and they have to they have to eat again.
1:25:52
All these all this eating we do all this eating we do.
1:25:55
But no, me not working was never again all over the place.
1:26:00
More respect in the entire world for stay at home moms.
1:26:03
But that is not Amen. That is not my jam.
1:26:08
And I, I'm not great at the housekeeping.
1:26:11
In fact, one time we were talking with my daughter about,
1:26:15
you know, how girls can do anything, you know, and you can
1:26:17
be anything you want to be when, you know, whatever.
1:26:19
We're giving her that spiel one time and she goes, yeah, but
1:26:21
girls don't clean. It's like, you're right, they
1:26:25
don't. So I like that should be a flex
1:26:28
for my husband. Yeah.
1:26:31
That that's, I think he feels like all he's ever doing is
1:26:35
cleaning up our house and things like that.
1:26:39
But I think we very much just kind of both we were older when
1:26:44
we got together. I was 30, he was 41 when we got
1:26:47
married. So we both already kind of lived
1:26:49
our lives and knew what we were good at and bad at.
1:26:53
So I think we kind of naturally fell into roles at home of what
1:26:56
we did and stuff like that. And you know, some of that
1:26:59
continued, but I think we knew, you know, we knew me not
1:27:02
coaching was not going to be an option because or not working at
1:27:06
least, because I there's no way I could said more power.
1:27:10
It's not you know, but it's not it's not for me.
1:27:12
I can't. He probably would have been a
1:27:15
phenomenal stay at home dad when she was little, though.
1:27:18
He is great at that type of stuff.
1:27:20
Great it keeping up. He that probably would have been
1:27:23
more of his jam. But I will say, you know, one of
1:27:27
the things I always laugh, you know, and, and I get it, you
1:27:29
know, but there's always what coach's wife's posting things
1:27:32
about how the hardest job in the world is being a coach's wife,
1:27:35
the hardest thing. Well, like we, we got to flip
1:27:37
that both ways because if there's the coach's husbands
1:27:40
too. And I, I feel like in general,
1:27:42
there's probably less support out there for that side of
1:27:45
things because the women come together and do things, you
1:27:47
know, but are we doing that same thing for the husbands and for
1:27:50
the, you know, the other side of things?
1:27:52
Like, we're very fortunate here, you know, at Iowa Central and he
1:27:56
hangs out with a lot of the other coaches and things like
1:27:58
that. He works the scores table for
1:28:00
basketball games and does some of that stuff.
1:28:01
So he's still involved. Dee keeps our families very,
1:28:05
it's very much a family atmosphere that they're always
1:28:08
welcome. He doesn't ever want to be on a
1:28:10
bus ever again if it's up to him.
1:28:11
So he doesn't necessarily travel on the bus, but when we're close
1:28:15
and they're at meets and things like that.
1:28:17
So but I think, yeah, it's just that balance of and that was a
1:28:21
big thing that, you know, Kip and then Kirk Peterson is our
1:28:23
distance coach. Both pushed like when I went
1:28:25
into they're like, if you stay in coaching and you, your your
1:28:28
spouse, your husband's got to be involved and you got to have
1:28:30
your kids involved. Girls, you don't see them.
1:28:32
You know you don't. Does that conversation happen a
1:28:37
lot now? It happened with you, but I've,
1:28:39
it feels like a, a, a I always, I don't ever know how to say it.
1:28:46
I want to say a woman coach, but that makes me feel like I'm
1:28:48
saying a, you know, somebody coaches women.
1:28:50
So a coach who's a woman. That sounds so clinical, but it
1:28:54
feels like it's something we don't talk about when it comes
1:28:57
to motherhood in regards to like, like I've got a teammate
1:29:03
here. She just had a little baby girl.
1:29:05
So sweet. She's, she went on maternity
1:29:07
leave. She, you know, I think we give
1:29:09
12 weeks or something like that. Good for you guys.
1:29:11
I know I haven't seen it for her.
1:29:12
Oh yeah. We, we pay for maternity leave.
1:29:15
So she gets paid during those 12 week.
1:29:17
We, we, we're, I mean, you talk about family centric.
1:29:20
This, this, this place. It's amazing.
1:29:22
Now do you do something for? No, and no one does cuz on the
1:29:26
same thing, I have another teammate who just Nick who just
1:29:29
had a baby last Friday and it's like I was like, so what's your
1:29:33
plan? He's like, yeah, I'll probably
1:29:34
stay home for a week, you know, use vacation and then I'll
1:29:36
probably work from home. But I'll be working and they'll
1:29:38
be back in the office. And I was like, Oh, yeah, I get
1:29:41
it. But you know, I had two myself
1:29:43
and I was like, I get it, but. Yeah, my, my husband was at
1:29:45
media day that day. She was born at 2:40 in the
1:29:48
morning and he was at media day at like 11 AM or noon.
1:29:52
But I got that because, like, it was never even a conversation.
1:29:56
You know? You talk about having
1:29:57
conversations, right? Well, a lot of those things were
1:29:59
never conversations. Yeah.
1:30:00
Because like, of course you have to be at media day, right?
1:30:02
Right. Like you're the head coach,
1:30:04
you're the face of the program and stuff.
1:30:05
Like had there been an issue and I've still been in like, you
1:30:08
know, stuff like that, that would.
1:30:09
Have been right. What was he gonna do, sit in the
1:30:12
chair next to me like? Right.
1:30:13
Yeah, so. What I'm wondering is that, you
1:30:15
know, it's like we don't talk about.
1:30:17
We don't have the conversation around.
1:30:18
OK, so you had baby. That's awesome.
1:30:21
You're a mom now. Well, there are things that mom
1:30:24
does that no one else can do, not just with the baby, but just
1:30:29
your own, you know, your body, you just have a baby, things
1:30:30
like that. But when you talk about track
1:30:34
and track coaching, these are, you know, 12 hour days is not an
1:30:38
that's not abnormal. That's normal in our lives and
1:30:41
having a baby with you is that's hard and things like that track
1:30:45
traveling to track meets the track meet itself.
1:30:47
How, how did you navigate? OK, I've got this little life
1:30:52
I've got to take care of. Oh, and I have my job.
1:30:55
I have my kids that I, you know, my athletes.
1:30:56
I need to take care. Oh, by the way, I'm a spouse.
1:30:58
I have a husband that I want to be with, you know?
1:31:00
How did you handle still being a track coach and being a mom?
1:31:05
Yeah. So there were times that like I
1:31:10
would bring her along and stuff like when she was little.
1:31:12
That gets harder as they get more mobile and say, you know,
1:31:14
you have, you know, like and track meets her long.
1:31:17
It's not hard. We would, if I was on the road
1:31:19
and she had a sitter, that sitter in the basketball game
1:31:22
was at home. The sitter would take her to the
1:31:23
basketball game, but on that flip side, it's not really fair
1:31:28
to ask a sitter to hey come spend 12 hours at a track mate
1:31:31
like nobody. Had to lose a sitter.
1:31:34
Yeah, but every now and then when she would, she'd sometimes
1:31:36
travel with us and I would bring a sitter and stuff so that, you
1:31:40
know, if there was, you know, if something was happening and I
1:31:42
couldn't be there at the time, you know, like she needed a
1:31:45
diaper change. But we're long jumping, you
1:31:46
know, like there was a sitter there and stuff like that.
1:31:50
Now she's six years old now. She loves to be around the team.
1:31:54
She likes to be at practice. She likes to she thinks she's a
1:31:56
coach, though. She's not a member.
1:31:57
Every now and then people are like, oh, are you on the team?
1:31:59
She's like, oh, no, gross. I'm a coach, Not I'm not equals
1:32:03
to these guys. You serious?
1:32:06
But she doesn't necessarily have an interest of being at a track
1:32:09
and field meet all day long. So that's.
1:32:12
Yeah. She did, yeah.
1:32:13
She she came to the Iowa State track, meet high school, meet
1:32:17
with me for a day. So that was fun.
1:32:20
So she does, you know, some of that stuff.
1:32:22
And then she was mad we couldn't be in the infield.
1:32:23
She was like, how am I supposed to recruit?
1:32:25
She likes to hand out business cards.
1:32:27
How am I supposed to? Yes, how am I supposed to
1:32:29
recruit in the stands? And I'm like, well, honey, they
1:32:32
don't let us down in the infield.
1:32:33
But isn't. Yeah, she was mad.
1:32:37
So no. She loves it and stuff and I you
1:32:40
know, I think having her around the kids as much as possible is
1:32:44
great. You know, I having my husband
1:32:46
around as much as possible. And I think sometimes, you know,
1:32:48
I like to think we have a really great marriage and things like
1:32:51
that. And you know, every kid hasn't
1:32:53
been exposed to that. Every kid didn't have mom and
1:32:56
dad in the household, whether that's they still had mom and
1:33:00
dad and everything was great or mom or dad was never a part of
1:33:03
the, you know, like everybody comes and I think it's important
1:33:06
that they see that healthy relationship and that healthy.
1:33:09
You know, like I said, I, I think, I think that's what we
1:33:11
have. And you know, we, we try to show
1:33:14
that to, you know, to the athletes and to, you know, and I
1:33:17
talk about my husband and think, you know, I talk about, you
1:33:19
know, I got it. You know, I got to check in with
1:33:21
Pat or no, I have to do this today.
1:33:22
I can't go do this because, you know, Pat, Pat needs to go do
1:33:27
something because I was gone all weekend.
1:33:28
You know, he had the baby by himself all weekend long.
1:33:32
He needs a night to go out and do something or you know, and
1:33:34
just that balance and how that works and in a healthy
1:33:37
relationship and stuff. So I think it's very important
1:33:41
that they don't know. They see me as a mom and a wife.
1:33:43
And because not all kids had that growing up and have seen
1:33:49
that, you know, displayed for them.
1:33:52
Yeah, that's, that's a great point.
1:33:53
That's the that's the role models that we play in.
1:33:57
You know, most of us are playing very positive role models and
1:34:00
some of us aren't. And we got to remember
1:34:01
everybody's watching at all times, good and bad, and
1:34:04
modeling off of that. Quick context question to set up
1:34:08
my next question here. So you're at Edinburgh for 10
1:34:11
years from Edinburgh to Iowa Central?
1:34:13
Yep. OK.
1:34:14
And Iowa Central Four, I think you said 3.
1:34:16
I'm just finishing my second year.
1:34:17
Second year, OK. End of July is will be the start
1:34:21
of the third year. Perfect.
1:34:22
And you've been a mom now for six years.
1:34:25
Are you seeing, do you have other female coaches coming up
1:34:31
to you saying, hey, so how did you do it?
1:34:34
I've thought about getting out when we're about to start a
1:34:36
family or hey, I've been watching you and I see she's
1:34:39
there and she's actually seems like a recruiter of yours.
1:34:42
But you know, how are you doing it?
1:34:44
Because I want to be able to. Are you like is is is the
1:34:47
discussion amongst women happening as well or or do women
1:34:50
more feel like they're on their own to figure it out?
1:34:53
I think it depends on, I think people that maybe know me a
1:34:57
little bit more. I had a friend who and her
1:35:00
sister was a volleyball coach, but she I, I maybe this is TMI,
1:35:03
but I pumped for a year after and you know, she said she goes,
1:35:07
you know, she's going back to work, she's coaching and stuff,
1:35:10
the rundown, everything. What did you do?
1:35:11
How did you do it? How do you know?
1:35:13
Like it's, you know, it's and I am more than happy now.
1:35:17
I'm probably too far out if somebody would call me tomorrow
1:35:20
to remember all the details and stuff.
1:35:21
I was only about a year out at that time, but I think it's
1:35:24
important, you know, things keeping, you know, there were
1:35:26
meets. We went to Youngstown State,
1:35:29
phenomenal. They put me up in, I think it
1:35:31
was like the Gulf student athlete lounge area where I
1:35:34
could pump. They asked me if I wanted a
1:35:35
bottle of water. They asked me.
1:35:36
They were phenomenal. The school, the host at the.
1:35:39
School at the school, yes, the host school, I went and found
1:35:42
his and I should know his name. I'm sorry, but his wife, they
1:35:46
generally where she was, I'd go and find her, she would go open
1:35:49
up this room for me. She would ask me if I I went
1:35:51
another place and it, it was an outdoor place where, you know,
1:35:54
every year we'd go and the bathrooms would overflow and
1:35:57
they were and it's like I, I can't, you can't do that in a
1:35:59
bathroom stall. It needs to be somewhat sterile
1:36:01
like I don't have problems doing it and a very clean nice but I'm
1:36:04
not doing it in the public and I asked if I could use the coaches
1:36:07
offices and they told me no and put me in the one stall bathroom
1:36:12
that was for the officials and it was 1 stall.
1:36:15
A pump can take anywhere like up to 1/2 hour and I would have
1:36:18
officials banging on the door and stuff.
1:36:19
And it just, it was, you know, so as simple as having a place
1:36:23
and you don't need to get them a bottle of water.
1:36:25
Truthfully, being in the coach's office would have been, I just
1:36:28
need to shut the door. If they need to pop in or they
1:36:31
need to, they can knock. And like, you know, like it's
1:36:33
not like it's, you know, and more power to the, you know, the
1:36:36
women that breastfeed out in public and stuff and all that
1:36:38
thing that, that wasn't my jam. But like having a place for moms
1:36:42
to do that because it's something already probably a
1:36:46
little uncomfortable for some people and things like that, and
1:36:49
just having, you know, obviously they're still going to have to
1:36:51
ask. I'm not asking you to put it in
1:36:52
your meet information. Yeah, but every school should
1:36:56
have a. Place that.
1:36:58
A coach can do that. And and like I said, I don't
1:37:01
think it's a problem having it be a clean nice bathroom or an
1:37:05
office or something. But yeah, for it to just be
1:37:08
like, Oh yeah, you can go use that bathroom stall or why?
1:37:11
Why is this a problem? I, I feel like if I were to ask
1:37:16
100 coaches and, and they could be, you know, the makeup could
1:37:19
be 100 males, it could be 5050. I feel like 100% would say,
1:37:25
yeah, I care about keeping more women in our profession.
1:37:29
Like, you know, when I look at our our athletes, you know, big
1:37:33
generalizations here, but it's roughly 50% of our college track
1:37:38
athletes are male and roughly 50% are women.
1:37:41
When I look at the coaching profession, it's not 50 and it
1:37:44
isn't necessarily. I'm not one of those guys who
1:37:46
believes like, well, the percentage should be the exact
1:37:47
same as the athletes because it's a profession.
1:37:49
We all have our choices to go do whatever job we want, but there
1:37:53
maybe should be more percentage of our coaches being women than
1:37:58
lower. In fact, the same.
1:38:00
I have the same thoughts and feelings when I look at race as
1:38:03
well. And again, big journalization is
1:38:05
going to leave out a lot of races here, but roughly when I
1:38:07
look at athletes, it's 50% white and 50% black.
1:38:09
And I look at our coaches, but I don't see that number being
1:38:12
close. You know, So I feel like if I
1:38:14
were to, you know, ask 100 coaches whether they're all
1:38:16
males, all females, 5050, I think extremely high percentage,
1:38:20
the 100 would say, yeah, I, I feel like, you know, I, I would
1:38:24
like to be part of the positivity of keeping women in
1:38:27
our profession. And then you have an opportunity
1:38:32
to like let another coach who, who's a mom, who's maybe
1:38:36
nursing, feel very supported and you just drop the bomb.
1:38:40
And we don't need to know that school or anything like that.
1:38:42
This is more of like APSA to anybody who's listening of like,
1:38:45
hey, just be conscious of it. Like if a because I agree,
1:38:50
because I was also thinking like, oh, So what should we like
1:38:52
when we invite I was central to a meet.
1:38:55
Do we put on every question? Hey, do you have anybody on stat
1:38:58
or athletes by the way, let's you're.
1:39:00
Right. Yeah, be real here, any babies?
1:39:04
So maybe that's not the question, but and you were
1:39:07
probably more back then proactive like, hey, we're going
1:39:10
to Youngstown State. I think Brian Riggins I think is
1:39:13
his name. There we go.
1:39:14
Yes. Yeah, hey, Brian, you know, just
1:39:16
boy and and I, you know, I can just see you, man.
1:39:19
It's not like you're like, hey, Brian, do you have a castle
1:39:21
with, you know, completely sterile?
1:39:24
You know, it's like, hey, Brian, do you have any place that, you
1:39:26
know, I might be able to? Oh, yeah, absolutely.
1:39:28
You know, and Brian gets somebody to take care of you.
1:39:31
That's I think, I mean, that's minimal.
1:39:33
Like I think that's just like you were like completely like
1:39:36
effective sound like they went overboard.
1:39:37
Like I don't need any water, but that's amazing to me, right?
1:39:40
But it's like, oh, guys, when I say guys, I don't mean males.
1:39:43
I mean all coaches and administrators that are involved
1:39:45
in our sport. It's like we have an opportunity
1:39:47
to to not just say, I'd really like to keep women in our
1:39:50
profession, but to show, hey, if you're a woman and you become a
1:39:55
mom in this profession, there, there's still a place for you.
1:39:58
This is not an automatic. You need to go stay home with
1:40:00
the child or go find another job.
1:40:02
This is a profession that coaching track and field is a
1:40:05
profession for women who choose to be mothers.
1:40:09
Are welcome and supported and valued just like a guy is the
1:40:15
women who aren't moms black men, Asian women this is a place this
1:40:19
is a profession for you. So we need to kind of put our
1:40:22
actions in front of just our our words.
1:40:25
So I love hearing that some did and I, you know, I love hearing
1:40:29
someone don't cuz that means we have room to grow.
1:40:30
So you know, maybe we get better then but.
1:40:33
No, I think yeah, helping. And I try to make a point, you
1:40:36
know, when I see young moms and stuff and you know when they
1:40:40
have their kids is just telling them like, hey, you're being a
1:40:42
great role model. Keep it up.
1:40:43
Are. We, one of the great programs we
1:40:46
have in our profession is the Women's Coaching Forum.
1:40:50
I'm not sure the exact name of it, but that USTFCCCAI know a
1:40:54
lot of the leaders there. They're amazing leaders, amazing
1:40:57
women are are y'all? Are you involved in that at all?
1:41:00
Like have you attended or anything?
1:41:02
Yeah, I've attended. Yes, I have attended I I think
1:41:05
twice. Are you having those?
1:41:06
Are those? I don't know, I'm not in the
1:41:10
forum, no one's invited me yet. But are those the type of like
1:41:14
is this because there's 100 plus women coaches there?
1:41:17
So are y'all having these conversations together or?
1:41:19
No, I don't feel like, yeah, there's as much as about being
1:41:22
moms. And I think when you look at
1:41:23
some of the, you know, coaches and stuff is that they're
1:41:27
younger and maybe not moms yet or even they're older and they
1:41:30
don't have kids. That's the the younger ones are
1:41:32
the time to have the conversation, yeah.
1:41:34
But yeah, but then you need people that are older that are
1:41:37
still in coaching, and I think so many of us get out of it.
1:41:40
Yeah, that's that's and. Maybe there isn't the people.
1:41:42
Why? We've got to talk to the, you
1:41:44
know, think about their age when they get out of GA or call it 22
1:41:47
years old, 23 to 40 year olds, You know, I haven't had children
1:41:51
yet, but are thinking like, well, I might want to start a
1:41:53
family. That means I got to get out.
1:41:54
That's when you need, we need to have mentors with them that say,
1:41:57
hey, no, no, no, no, you don't. You don't have to get out that
1:41:59
you can sure that's an option, but you don't have to.
1:42:02
Here's here's how I successfully navigated and here's someone
1:42:05
else in their experience goal. Here's how I successfully
1:42:07
navigated it. We got to get to them then not
1:42:10
when they're pregnant and starting to look for another job
1:42:12
because they can't. They, they in their, you know,
1:42:15
all they've been, all that they have seen is, yeah, you can't do
1:42:18
this, you know, either have to have no children or you need to
1:42:20
go get a different job. If you're a woman who's a track
1:42:22
coach. And that's not true.
1:42:23
It's not true. Cool.
1:42:26
I love it. We need to have those
1:42:27
conversations, I think more and more.
1:42:28
And again, I also realize I'm a dude saying that.
1:42:30
So maybe we don't think we're having the right thing, but I
1:42:32
just I want to support. But I, you know, like you like
1:42:36
the the majority needs to push the yeah, needs to push the
1:42:41
topic and needs to push and you know, and that's, you know,
1:42:44
that's where it needs to come from.
1:42:45
And sometimes it's just knowing that that that is a topic out
1:42:48
there. We get very in our zone.
1:42:49
And it's like, you know, I don't think about women coaches who
1:42:52
become moms because I don't know, I'm coaching long jumpers.
1:42:54
Mike, you know, it's like, well, this is again, this is part of
1:42:57
the, you know, the fun part being on the track is, you know,
1:43:00
this small amount of the job, the other job is people and
1:43:02
communications. And that's your staff and future
1:43:05
staff and the future health of the profession.
1:43:08
OK, 10 years at Edinborough. Why leave and why come to Iowa
1:43:12
Central? So I am now two and a half 2 1/2
1:43:15
hours from my parents. Homebody, you said?
1:43:17
Which is, yes, which is, is phenomenal, is phenomenal.
1:43:20
And having a, you know, young kid also, we have a, a staff of
1:43:27
five and a half and part timer. I I only coach the jumps in the
1:43:32
multis. Oh, you went from?
1:43:34
Two to, I went from a lot to and that, you know, I guess I
1:43:41
thought because, you know, I, I was at a division two school
1:43:43
that that had more resources and had multiple coaches and stuff.
1:43:46
But, and then, you know, I was at, I just kind of and I loved
1:43:49
the, I loved division two. I thought I would never leave.
1:43:51
I thought Division 2 is for me. I love it, but I, I thought I
1:43:56
would never have the opportunity to coach such a small group.
1:43:59
You know, I think it's a question people ask a lot is,
1:44:01
you know, what's your ideal group to these coaches that
1:44:03
coach? And I'd always say, you know,
1:44:05
multis, jumps, multis, and now that's what I get a coach.
1:44:09
What did you what was your experience with junior college
1:44:12
and what did you think junior college coaching would be like
1:44:15
and what's the reality? My experience Nothing 00.
1:44:19
In fact, this job was sent to me by multiple different people
1:44:23
multiple times saying like this, like this reads like your
1:44:27
resume, like you need to apply. And I'm like, I can't go to
1:44:30
junior college. I don't know.
1:44:32
And, and a lot of you know, like we said, a lot of the, the
1:44:35
stigmas and things you know, about I won't, I won't name ATV
1:44:39
show, but ATV show I watched about, you know, junior colleges
1:44:43
and I thought I said, I can't be a part of that, right?
1:44:45
I can't. And that's not what it is at
1:44:47
all. By the way, tell me you're
1:44:48
talking about. Oh my God, now I can't even
1:44:50
think of it. The last chance you.
1:44:53
Yes, of course for because there has there needs to be a last
1:44:56
chance you for track and field there there needs to be I mean
1:45:01
to see reality of what junior college needs.
1:45:03
To be and I'm not saying that wasn't reality, but like there's
1:45:07
so much other things that go on. There's so many good kids and so
1:45:10
many like, you know, like every place has their trouble has
1:45:14
there. And yes, we, you know, we are
1:45:15
giving kids second and third and fourth chances that we we
1:45:18
definitely are. We are taking on kids that can
1:45:21
only go to junior college because of the way our academic
1:45:24
stuff is set up. And they will not get into any
1:45:27
other, you know, we, we are doing that.
1:45:29
But a lot of those kids that they're grateful for that chance
1:45:32
and they go on and they do great things.
1:45:34
And there's the, you know, the things that our kids go on to
1:45:36
do. And.
1:45:37
But No 0, nothing I knew nothing about, you know?
1:45:42
You knew. You knew there were junior like
1:45:44
junior college athletics. Yes, yes, yes.
1:45:46
I'm sorry. Yes, but I had you.
1:45:47
Didn't you didn't recruit any junior college?
1:45:50
I want to say we had two or three junior college kids the
1:45:53
entire time I was on. We didn't recruit.
1:45:55
Junior college, you were like, you were like flying into Kansas
1:45:57
to do the the Jayhawk conference circuit and all that stuff.
1:46:00
It was just like. I should have been though.
1:46:02
Yeah, well, that's why he's coaching the Jayhawk.
1:46:04
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I should have been.
1:46:06
That's so NCAA schools, you should be at our national
1:46:09
championships and our regional championships and so, and a lot
1:46:12
of them are. As I say, if they don't know
1:46:14
that by now, I'm not sure you do actually, because you're just
1:46:17
not. You don't want to be successful
1:46:19
or your Ivy League, whatever. Ivy League.
1:46:22
What did you think? Like, like, like when you OK,
1:46:25
you read the job description, you know, someone says, oh, it's
1:46:27
read like your resume and you're like, yeah, it's cool and all,
1:46:29
but man, I don't want to two years.
1:46:34
I I'm a, I'm a coach that needs that likes four years of
1:46:37
development or, you know, a small city, right?
1:46:41
Well, you kind of grew up in small.
1:46:43
Cities. Actually Fort Dodge is the
1:46:44
largest place I've ever lived so.
1:46:46
Is that right? Yep, about 24,000 people.
1:46:49
Largest place I've ever lived. Didn't you say you lived in
1:46:52
Vermilion? Vermilion is like 11 now.
1:46:55
It was like 10 when I. Thought that was a little bit
1:46:57
bigger for some reason in my head in Edinburgh.
1:46:59
Yeah, I'd imagine that's that's kind of small. 4 dodges a big.
1:47:02
That's funny, actually. OK.
1:47:03
So that's yeah, all the time. You know, I talk about being a
1:47:05
yeah, a small town. It's the biggest place I've ever
1:47:08
lived. That's.
1:47:09
Funny. OK, so it did it cause you to
1:47:13
hesitate? Like did you wait six weeks to
1:47:15
apply or? Yes, Yeah.
1:47:17
Yes, I wait. Yeah, and even after and like
1:47:20
kind of like when I finally did it, I just OK, I'm going to
1:47:23
apply, but I'm probably not going to take the job.
1:47:25
And, you know, I was kind of told by people again, you'll go
1:47:28
to and make, you know, I'm a female who has head coaching.
1:47:31
You know, I was kind of they're like, you're going to get an
1:47:33
interview. You know, I'm not, you know,
1:47:35
like just take the interview and see like just, you know, like.
1:47:40
But Dee Brown called me right after I applied and, you know,
1:47:44
we talked some and things before and I I really liked him and
1:47:47
liked and, you know, I was pretty honest that, you know, I
1:47:49
had some reservations about junior college and, you know, I
1:47:53
thought it was all trouble and stuff like that.
1:47:54
It's not anywhere close to what it is like it's not what, you
1:47:57
know, a large majority of our kids are not on their last
1:47:59
chance, right? They're not even on their second
1:48:01
chance, right? Very, very large majority.
1:48:04
And you know, you were there and stuff and.
1:48:06
You know, all my kids were on their last chance, just so
1:48:08
you're aware. Yeah.
1:48:09
Yeah. Yeah.
1:48:09
I was last chance. You before I was around.
1:48:12
Absolutely. Yeah, I used to.
1:48:13
Here's the thing I didn't like about coaching junior college
1:48:15
because I felt a little bit like a pariah when, you know, because
1:48:19
I was I was in The Jayhawks. So this is when Barton was the
1:48:21
bee's knees. And I mean, everybody, Garden
1:48:23
City, Hutch, all, you know, top ten at nationals was 9.
1:48:27
We were the SEC. This is probably the best way to
1:48:29
put the SEC of of JUCO track and field.
1:48:32
The the conference was. And so to and you know, I just
1:48:35
you know, I can't help myself. I'm like, well, I just want to
1:48:36
win. So I mean, I can't I can't deal
1:48:38
with good kids. I got to get the same kids
1:48:39
they're getting right. So I just went after all the the
1:48:41
top kids. And so every kid that I
1:48:43
recruited was so good that if they were a qualifier, well,
1:48:48
they're not kind of majuco, they have plenty of offers, Clemson,
1:48:51
Florida State, Florida, Miami, etcetera.
1:48:53
So I would call the school 1st and say, hey, I'm thinking about
1:48:57
recruiting so and so could you send me their transcripts with
1:49:00
test score? And so you know, most of them
1:49:02
back, I don't know how it is. This is back in 2000, 2001, so
1:49:05
things were a lot more looser back then, but they would just
1:49:07
fax me the transcripts and as the fax is coming through and by
1:49:10
the way, boys and girls, a fax, we used to send paper basically
1:49:13
instead of an e-mail, we'd send paper.
1:49:16
So I'd get the fax and I would be just hoping like, oh, let me
1:49:19
see a 1.40. Let me see that 12 on that ACT
1:49:22
baby, because then I would I could be able to recruit him.
1:49:25
I had a shot if I saw, you know, there's some kids.
1:49:26
It was so funny. I'd get into like, man, you got
1:49:28
a four O and a 32. God bless you, brother.
1:49:30
You ain't coming here, you know. So I felt a little like like a
1:49:33
shark of like, I really hope they had good grades because
1:49:36
they didn't. You don't want to come to
1:49:38
Chanute KS and great Ben, can't you want to go to a great
1:49:41
school? But if you didn't, you needed me
1:49:44
and I needed you. And so I that that was the only
1:49:46
part. So literally 90 out of all my
1:49:49
kids, 99% were non qualifiers. I had one kid who wasn't very
1:49:52
good at a high school. It was a qualifier came and
1:49:55
ended up going to Kansas State for a track.
1:49:57
So that worked out, but I just. I don't know our percent, but it
1:50:00
is not. We have a lot of kids that could
1:50:02
go. I think it's different today.
1:50:03
I don't know why, because I hear this a lot because because I'm
1:50:05
still stuck like and when you said, you know, most of our kids
1:50:08
aren't on their even their second chance, I'm like, and
1:50:11
come on, you're JUCO. 100% of your kids didn't qualify.
1:50:13
Like that's just JUCO. No, that's not.
1:50:15
And I'm hearing that story a lot lately.
1:50:17
That's not true at all, actually, Yeah.
1:50:20
So, and that's, you know, and it's, and you know, I'm, it's
1:50:22
kind of a weird kind of reverse like I'm, you know, people are
1:50:25
asking, you know, what do we need to do to get high school
1:50:29
coaches, to get parents, to get people to just look at like
1:50:32
junior college. You know, we are a small
1:50:34
university. We have 1200 students that live
1:50:37
on campus. 80 to 85% of them are student athletes.
1:50:41
We have 33 varsity athletic sports.
1:50:43
We have a whole campus. Holy crap. 33 varsity athletic
1:50:47
sports. OK, hold on, pause real quick.
1:50:48
We're getting close. Don't ask me to name them all.
1:50:50
No, no, no. Yeah, no, no, I, I that
1:50:52
convention I was just at a school Adrian up in Michigan.
1:50:57
The Sid goes yeah, we we're the school with 51 sports.
1:50:59
And I was like, I mean I know Harvard has a crap ton and like
1:51:02
AUSC has a crap ton because of, you know, rowing and scullery
1:51:06
and all that kind of crap like you're in the Midwest.
1:51:08
It it was amazing. Anyway, 2 quick questions.
1:51:11
We're near our time. Are you OK for us to continue?
1:51:13
OK, two before we get to because you know first of all me and you
1:51:16
could do 2 hours just on junior college because of our passions
1:51:20
and and love for that role. But before we get there, take me
1:51:24
to So what changed your mind? You said you called and
1:51:27
everything. What changed your mind of like
1:51:28
okay man, maybe this is right. Yeah.
1:51:31
So, you know, and I interviewed and I, you know, I whatever my
1:51:35
interview was at 11:00 or whatever, it's going to be an
1:51:37
hour. OK, Right.
1:51:38
Whatever. My husband comes home like an
1:51:40
hour and a half afterwards and he like, starts coming upstairs
1:51:43
and I'm, I'm still on the interview.
1:51:46
Yeah. And he was like, wow, that must
1:51:48
have went well. And I was like, yeah.
1:51:49
Like it didn't feel like an interview.
1:51:50
It felt like a conversation, you know, like, and it was, you
1:51:52
know, like I, you know, I liked these people.
1:51:54
I liked like what they were, you know, selling because, yeah,
1:51:57
they still are, you know, like, and I was like, it's it's maybe
1:52:00
not what I think like and then called some of my friends that
1:52:04
went to cuz I had friends at Central Missouri that came from
1:52:07
junior call, you know, called them and stuff.
1:52:08
And you know, and some of them too are like, no, it's not, it's
1:52:12
not what you know, it's not what it.
1:52:14
And, and ultimately when you're the coach, it is what you make
1:52:16
it too. Yeah, yeah.
1:52:18
What you bring in, you know, but it's, you know, how do we, you
1:52:21
know, and then we came on a on a visit, you know, because we
1:52:26
wanted to see it. You know, if we're going to move
1:52:28
out, you know, we're moving from Pennsylvania, We're moving, you
1:52:30
know, we're moving our whole life, you know, we're all coming
1:52:32
and stuff. And I was.
1:52:33
Where's did you say? What did you say?
1:52:35
Husband's name was Pat. I knew it was sure.
1:52:38
I almost said Sam. Pat Is Pat from Pennsylvania?
1:52:41
Yes, he is. So this is a move for him.
1:52:43
This is I know. He never lived out of
1:52:45
Pennsylvania, and you know what? He was made for Iowa.
1:52:47
Now we say. Is that right?
1:52:48
That's. Loves it, yes, and but I know
1:52:50
that what is a concern. You know, part of the decision.
1:52:53
Yeah, that. I mean, I knew I could live in
1:52:55
the Midwest and stuff. Like I knew that, you know, Fort
1:52:57
Dodge made, I don't know anything about Fort Dodge.
1:52:59
I don't know anything about but, you know, like, but that could
1:53:01
be anywhere unless you're moving back.
1:53:03
But you know, he's never been, never lived out of Pennsylvania.
1:53:06
Wow. So, you know, he'd went to
1:53:09
school at Edinboro and then had been there for 23 years.
1:53:12
So that was a bit, you know, that was a big.
1:53:15
But he loves it. He's an academic advisor now on
1:53:18
campus and he loves it and he is phenomenal at.
1:53:22
It did. He end his time at Edinboro as a
1:53:24
basketball coach and became an academic advisor when he moved.
1:53:27
He didn't have a job when we first came.
1:53:29
That's what I'm saying. So like he he wasn't, he wasn't,
1:53:31
he didn't move from basketball to academic advising at
1:53:33
Edinburgh. No, no, no.
1:53:34
This kind of precipitated, OK, OK.
1:53:36
All right. So you get to Iowa Western.
1:53:39
I was central. No, I knew.
1:53:41
I knew it. I knew it.
1:53:42
I knew it. And you know, I'm not even edit
1:53:43
that out. I'm just, I make, I make
1:53:45
mistakes. Yeah.
1:53:46
Yeah. No.
1:53:46
It's OK. They're good guys there.
1:53:47
They're good guys too. I wish, I wish we could not like
1:53:50
each other, really not like each other, but I can't.
1:53:52
And the two head coaches are very good friends, by the way.
1:53:54
Yes, like best friends, the whole like yes, because it's
1:53:57
funny. Every now and then our kids try
1:53:58
to like, play us, you know, and we're like it.
1:54:01
It might. They talk to each other multiple
1:54:03
times a day. Every conversation I've had with
1:54:05
both of them I think has included both of them.
1:54:07
Like I don't think I've ever actually had a separate.
1:54:09
It's always, they're always together anyway, Iowa Central.
1:54:12
So when you got there, you know one of the things, so coaching's
1:54:14
coaching, you know, coaching long jump at in Fort Dodge is
1:54:17
the same as coaching long jump at Edinburgh, being in all the
1:54:20
very variety and stuff like that.
1:54:21
Kids at Iowa Central, a lot of them are jumping quite a bit
1:54:23
farther. Though that sure, sure.
1:54:24
Sure, that is fun. When but one of the things that
1:54:28
I, you know, I stress upon people at junior college, it's
1:54:31
so funny. I literally just, I was talking
1:54:32
to the AD of Lansing Community College at this event and I was
1:54:35
like, you know, the thing that, you know, just draws me into
1:54:37
junior college coaching is, you know, when you're a high school
1:54:40
coach, you're coaching and you're always trying to get your
1:54:43
kids recruited, whether it's athletically or just
1:54:46
academically. Hey, I just want you to go to
1:54:47
college. That's hard.
1:54:48
That's hard getting your kids recruited when you're a four
1:54:51
year institution. You're always recruiting kids to
1:54:53
your institution. You're always trying to get kids
1:54:55
to transfer in or freshmen come in.
1:54:57
That's that's hard. It really is hard.
1:54:59
Junior college coaches are doing both of those all the time.
1:55:03
You are constantly trying to get kids to your program and you are
1:55:07
constantly trying to get your kids out to four year schools.
1:55:10
That is the part where I think when people look at junior
1:55:13
college and go, oh, you know, only two years, whatever.
1:55:15
But it's like, dude, they're doing twice the work.
1:55:17
They're doing both your job and your job in in that respect that
1:55:20
that's hard. You, you think you're always
1:55:22
recruiting as a four year college.
1:55:24
You are always in the recruiting game at junior college.
1:55:28
It is so much different so much because the number of kids, you
1:55:30
know, we, we say we probably estimate that we turn over about
1:55:33
70 to 75% of our kids because especially in Iowa, there's a
1:55:37
big push at the high school level to be taking college level
1:55:40
classes. So we start recruiting kids and
1:55:44
we'll have kids out of high school that will have their
1:55:46
associate's degree when they graduate high school.
1:55:48
We bring it is common. I had one kid at Edinburgh that
1:55:51
brought in like 30 some credits and it was like crazy.
1:55:54
That is a common thing here that we are bringing kids in that we
1:55:58
know when they come in, they will only be here for one year
1:56:01
because they'll graduate with their associates in one year.
1:56:04
We also have a few, we have quite a few trades, but a few of
1:56:06
our trades are also only one year programs.
1:56:10
So even if our kids like, yeah, we're not like you know, we say
1:56:13
well they're, you know, they're freshmen and sophomores.
1:56:15
How are you turning over 70 to 75%?
1:56:17
Well. We we're bringing in a lot of
1:56:20
kids that no, yeah, some are transferring out.
1:56:22
Yeah, some are transferring out before they're for all sorts of
1:56:26
different reasons. But yeah, like, you know, we're,
1:56:28
you know, we have the kids that go through in two years and get
1:56:30
their associates, but we have a lot of them that are coming in
1:56:33
that know they're only going to be here for one year.
1:56:35
So how are you adjusting? Because in Edinburgh you didn't
1:56:37
have that. You're no, you're recruiting was
1:56:39
probably 90 percent was new freshman and some transfers, but
1:56:44
it was mainly I'm talking high school seniors every day and now
1:56:47
you're talking high school seniors every day.
1:56:49
Plus you're talking to coach just for your schools.
1:56:51
Like, hey, man, I got this gal next year she graduates, here's
1:56:54
her marks, blah, blah, blah. You're always, like I said,
1:56:56
you're always in recruiting mode.
1:56:58
Yeah, and it's it's no, it it, it's definitely something that's
1:57:00
been different. That was one of the things now
1:57:02
with COVID, I'd experienced a little bit.
1:57:05
I had a couple kids that did like grad transfers.
1:57:08
So they finished their four years at Edinboro, but they had
1:57:10
another year. And and they're, you know,
1:57:11
obviously, like with some of them, I said, you know, we want
1:57:13
you to be here, but if you can go somewhere and get a grad
1:57:15
assistant and get it paid for and stuff like that.
1:57:17
So like, you know, like, I'm not going to stop a kid from doing
1:57:20
that. So I had maybe this much
1:57:22
experience. That was one of like the
1:57:23
questions on my interview. And I like said that.
1:57:25
And they probably, like, laughed to themselves.
1:57:27
And they were like, yeah, not a good answer, but no, it is.
1:57:30
That's so cute. Little four year school coach.
1:57:33
02/2 and 10 years. That's awesome.
1:57:38
To grad programs, by the way, that's also different.
1:57:40
Yes, exactly. The transferred on Yeah, that
1:57:42
got their four year degree and we're grad program.
1:57:44
Yeah, it was not the same at all.
1:57:46
I look back and I'm like DJ did you guys like laugh at me after
1:57:48
I said that? You guys get off the call and
1:57:50
make fun of me. You should have, but it is like,
1:57:53
and that's been one of the biggest.
1:57:54
And like you said, like just the year round the, and the number
1:57:57
of kids, our program, you know, we have 120 kids on our roster.
1:58:01
We have a large, large program. We have a lot of coaches too.
1:58:04
So it's not, but the number of kids we are recruiting is so
1:58:08
much different. Just the pure, you know, the
1:58:11
volume and stuff like that. And it is, it is all like, it's
1:58:14
like you said, we're kind of always recruiting, always trying
1:58:16
to sell myself, always trying to sell my program, always trying
1:58:19
to, because you never know who you're going to run into or who
1:58:22
you're gonna who's gonna be. And now that I'm closer to home
1:58:25
and stuff too, and my kid isn't very old yet, but I have high
1:58:29
school classmates and stuff like that that have kids that are
1:58:32
going into college and stuff like that.
1:58:34
And you just never know who you're gonna be running into and
1:58:37
who you're gonna be talking to that ultimately there could be a
1:58:40
recruit there at some point. Is that part of your culture
1:58:44
there at Central to have 100 and plus kids?
1:58:46
What why? Why?
1:58:47
So that seems like, I mean, I I know of programs with more, but
1:58:51
that's a lot. I mean, once you get to the 100
1:58:52
range, that's a lot. Yeah, well, we have like we have
1:58:55
5 1/2 coaches too. So we have a lot of coaches and
1:58:58
stuff like that. But yes, we are very
1:58:59
athletically driven. Our our on campus, like I said.
1:59:03
Yeah, you said 80% or something. Yeah, so 100 and they said 100.
1:59:07
I'm sorry, 1200 student athletes on campus.
1:59:09
We do have we have on on campus apartments and dormitories and
1:59:12
stuff like that, which is different than a lot of not
1:59:14
where you were. You're very Iowa and Kansas.
1:59:16
Those schools are very similar. But if you just talk about
1:59:19
nationwide, there's a lot of we have the on campus and then over
1:59:22
5000 people that are taking Iowa Central classes at any given
1:59:27
semester. But that could be like you or me
1:59:29
taking one class. That's the high school kids that
1:59:31
are taking a couple classes. But yes, there is a lot, you
1:59:35
know, that that that reach, it's a huge reach of people that are
1:59:40
taking Iowa Central classes. So what?
1:59:44
I don't know if I've ever asked a junior.
1:59:45
I don't know if I've thought about this with myself either.
1:59:48
What do you, which part of that recruiting do you enjoy the
1:59:51
most? Do you enjoy the, you know,
1:59:53
selling yourself in your program to get kids to your program or
1:59:56
the selling the kids? This sounds terrible, honestly.
1:59:58
Selling the kids. Yeah.
1:59:59
But you know, promoting, promoting, promoting, promoting
2:00:03
the kids to a four year. I think right now, just because
2:00:05
the promoting the kids to the four year is such a different
2:00:08
new thing for me, I would say that, But I I still do enjoy, I
2:00:12
like going into high schools. I like, truthfully, actually, I
2:00:15
prefer going to practice. I don't love when I go sit in
2:00:17
the library or the cafeteria and I like, but I like getting to go
2:00:21
to high school practices. I don't want to be a high school
2:00:23
or middle school coach again. That's another area.
2:00:27
Thank God for you people and what you do.
2:00:29
That is not for me, but I enjoy getting to, you know, go to
2:00:32
practice and stuff and just kind of see how everything is running
2:00:35
and see all the different and talk and get to talk to the
2:00:37
different kids in their element. That's the thing.
2:00:39
And you know, we kind of talk about the best behavior.
2:00:41
I mean, I'd hope they're on a little bit better behavior when
2:00:43
I'm standing right there, but I'm in their element at that
2:00:46
point. It's not, they're not coming
2:00:48
into the counselor's office and meeting with me or, you know, at
2:00:51
the cafeteria. I'm not sitting down at their
2:00:52
lunch table. They're coming over to me and
2:00:54
stuff. It is a different, but you get
2:00:55
to see them more in their element when you go to practice.
2:00:58
So I actually I prefer getting to go to practice.
2:01:00
I don't get to go to as many as I want because obviously this is
2:01:03
the same time as ours, but that's what I, you know, prefer.
2:01:08
But for right now, I would say, yeah, it's, it's, you know, it's
2:01:11
promoting our kids to the next level.
2:01:13
It's getting to say, you know, look what they've done so far,
2:01:16
but what they could do. And then, you know, them
2:01:18
getting, you know, those scholarship offers or just those
2:01:21
opportunities. Some of our kids come to Iowa
2:01:23
Central with the plan to do 2 years of track and they're going
2:01:26
to be done because nobody wanted them.
2:01:27
People wouldn't even return emails and stuff like that.
2:01:30
You know, you had you had kids that said you literally the only
2:01:33
school that returned my e-mail, which, yeah, it's heartbreaking
2:01:35
stuff. And then they end up going on to
2:01:39
an AI or Division Three or something like that.
2:01:41
And it's like that is as big as those kids were sending to those
2:01:45
power for schools because that's probably almost more of a
2:01:48
success story with some of those kids, you know, especially the
2:01:50
international kids or the, you know, the kids with the
2:01:52
ridiculously bad grades. They had no other option but us.
2:01:55
But they were already phenomenal.
2:01:57
You know, they would have had they had the grades or, you
2:02:00
know, if it was a little easier for some of those international
2:02:02
kids to go NCAA, they would have done that, right?
2:02:05
Like it's nothing I did. I just kind of didn't mess them
2:02:07
up for two. Years, Yeah, Hey, which which is
2:02:10
its own skill, by the way. Honestly.
2:02:11
Honestly. Yeah, but those other kids it.
2:02:14
It just made me think about the the dual recruiting is perfect
2:02:17
for you for someone who needs to always have 100 plate spinning.
2:02:23
It's like, cool, I got 50 on this side of recruiting.
2:02:24
I have 50 over here and they're not going to drop baby.
2:02:26
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's I literally was just like, yeah,
2:02:28
this you're made for this, man. You're just tik toking back and
2:02:30
forth and this is made for you. Yeah.
2:02:33
So what is it? Why can't I'm not going to ask
2:02:40
you why? Because you know, we I don't
2:02:43
know that we know the answer, but what what can we be doing as
2:02:46
junior college coaches? And you know, there's high
2:02:48
school coaches listening right now.
2:02:49
There's junior I think 4 year colleges maybe get it in the
2:02:55
academically challenged. I don't know that they are
2:02:57
encouraging the athletically challenged, meaning, you know,
2:03:02
I'll I'll use you know, I'll use a good friend of mine, I'll use
2:03:04
Dennis Shaver at LSU. I think when a, a, a really good
2:03:08
kid who's of an LSU caliber calls Dennis and has that one
2:03:11
point GPA and that, you know, whatever test score.
2:03:14
I, I, I know, you know, Dennis came from the junior college
2:03:16
route. So I know Dennis is like, hey,
2:03:18
let me talk to you about junior. We'd love to have you at LSU,
2:03:20
but you know, academically you're not going to make it.
2:03:21
So maybe junior college. Here's something that I
2:03:23
recommend, whatever, blah, blah. I'm not sure, in fact, that, you
2:03:26
know, I'll just go out on a limb and Dennis, you can call you,
2:03:28
you know, we talk. You can call me, text me, tweet
2:03:30
me and tell me I'm just dead wrong here.
2:03:32
I don't know that a a 12500 meter girl calls LSU calls
2:03:38
Dennis says, oh man, you know, I grew up a, you know, I'm a
2:03:41
tiger, you know, I want to get inside.
2:03:42
You know, I don't know that Dennis is returning that call or
2:03:45
returning that e-mail saying, hey, you know, not where we need
2:03:48
you to be today. But junior, you know, there's
2:03:50
great junior college. You know, maybe you can go 2
2:03:52
years of junior college and you might turn into an 11411 three.
2:03:54
You know, we've it's happened. That's not crazy.
2:03:58
I don't know that he's doing that.
2:03:59
So, but I think 4 year schools are maybe more inclined on the
2:04:03
academic side to talk about a junior college.
2:04:07
We talked a little bit, you know, we talked about the
2:04:08
parenting ego of, you know, does my kid go to Harvard or
2:04:11
Parkland? I think coaches and this is not
2:04:14
a judgement. I think coaches had that same
2:04:16
thing. Is it, is it cooler for me to
2:04:18
tell my coaching buddies that, you know, I sent a kid to
2:04:19
Harvard or Parkland Community College, right?
2:04:22
So I think they're sometimes less inclined academically and
2:04:27
athletically to recommend junior college.
2:04:29
What do we need to be doing on the junior college side to help
2:04:33
coaches see like, hey, you know, the academic Whether it's
2:04:36
academic issues or not, junior college might be the right place
2:04:40
for more of you, more of your kids than you think.
2:04:44
Well, and I think another thing to look at too is you have, you
2:04:46
know, the kids that you know, they don't have the academic
2:04:49
problems they don't have in a lot of cases, we're going to be
2:04:51
less expensive too, to knock out those Gen. eds and things like
2:04:55
that. That also the safety Nets and
2:04:58
things that I know we have and many other junior colleges have
2:05:01
that. So if you have a kid that maybe,
2:05:03
you know, maybe they were a A3132, but you know, every
2:05:07
single night mom and dad were sitting down helping them with
2:05:09
their homework, making sure. So that kid is going to go to a
2:05:12
four year school and get lost because nobody is going to sit
2:05:15
down. Now, I may not sit down with
2:05:17
them and do their homework, but I have direct access to all
2:05:19
their grades and things like that.
2:05:21
And, and we'll see immediately when they're slipping, you know,
2:05:25
depends on the school, the level of, you know, study halls and
2:05:28
tutoring and things. But I think at the junior
2:05:30
college level, there's probably more of that type of stuff.
2:05:33
So even with those kids that maybe did well, like I was just
2:05:36
saying, when I was at my four year, the kids I was most
2:05:38
worried about were the kids that were good enough students that
2:05:41
they didn't need to study or do things like that in high school,
2:05:44
because in college you're going to need to.
2:05:46
And they, they don't have those study skills and they don't
2:05:48
know, they don't have those study skills.
2:05:50
The kid that didn't have the study skills and you know,
2:05:53
barely made it through high school, they know that.
2:05:55
They at least know they don't have the study skills.
2:05:57
But the kids that could just show up and ace the test so they
2:06:00
didn't do the homework and stuff like that.
2:06:02
You may make it out of your entry level classes and stuff,
2:06:04
but you're not working your way up and you're definitely not
2:06:06
meeting your full potential. And those were always the kids.
2:06:09
I always just say those are the kids that I was most worried
2:06:11
about because they don't know how to fail a test and what they
2:06:15
do after they fail a test because they've never failed a
2:06:17
test. They don't like in some of their
2:06:19
cases, they barely know how to do homework and stuff because
2:06:21
they barely did it because they didn't have to, because they
2:06:24
were good enough to get by. And you know, we're, we're
2:06:27
checking up on that and checking, like I said, I have
2:06:29
access to my kids. Great.
2:06:30
If my, if something has been entered in the grade book, I
2:06:32
have access to it. I didn't, I didn't have that at
2:06:34
the last school I was at. I don't know that a lot of
2:06:37
people when I tell a lot of coaches that they're like,
2:06:38
they're like, what do you mean? I have, I have access to their
2:06:41
grade book. So I can and some of those
2:06:44
safety Nets and things like that are really, really good for some
2:06:47
of those kids that maybe are the 3132 student, but you know,
2:06:51
they're gonna need that extra push and things like that.
2:06:53
And just, you know, like there's just so many kids that are here
2:06:56
in their first year and stuff like that.
2:06:58
It's a great transition into college and like I said, and
2:07:02
less expensive if all you're doing is knocking out jet eds
2:07:04
anyways. That's what I was gonna say.
2:07:05
I'm surprised and maybe overall junior college enrollment is up,
2:07:10
but I am surprised that it's not more of a thing in, you know, in
2:07:13
2025 right now. I mean, you know, things are
2:07:17
more expensive and our wages are not keeping track at all with,
2:07:21
you know, inflation and all that kind of stuff.
2:07:23
It, it, it, it just makes it like, you know, I just thought
2:07:26
about this because I was like, Oh, I've, you know, I have, we
2:07:28
said we have a great Community College of Parkland right here.
2:07:31
And my kids already and my kids just about to become a freshman
2:07:34
in high school and a 6th grader. So they're, you know, young.
2:07:38
I have talked about junior college since we started talking
2:07:41
about anything at all about college.
2:07:42
Like I'd be like, oh man, man, I don't know why, you know, U of I
2:07:44
is great school would be love it if you'd go to U of I That's
2:07:47
awesome. But you know, they got a program
2:07:49
at Parkland. You do these two years there and
2:07:51
it's automatically transferred like, and it's like not even
2:07:54
half the cost. It's way less than the cost.
2:07:55
So I'm just surprised that junior College in the track and
2:07:59
field world hasn't caught on just for that alone, because
2:08:01
it's not like we're football where it's like, Oh well, you
2:08:04
know why? It's because every track
2:08:05
scholarships is a full ride. Maybe we're talking about books
2:08:07
and 25%. That's a big scholarship.
2:08:10
So why not go to a junior college where you'll pay less?
2:08:17
I don't know. No one can say anything to me
2:08:19
about the competition level because it's like, well, that's
2:08:21
just dumb. First of all, all the Juco's are
2:08:23
going to all the same meets that every other school's going to
2:08:26
and the national go look at nationals and tell me that that
2:08:28
it doesn't make sense our. Nationals are insane.
2:08:30
I can't believe you. Cannot believe.
2:08:33
How fast? It's, it's unbelievable.
2:08:35
Yeah, but it's insane. It used to be so when I was
2:08:38
there for the 2001 season, there were still a couple of events
2:08:41
that weren't that javelin wasn't all that.
2:08:44
Like, you could get a kid and you didn't have to be that great
2:08:46
of a coach. You could get an eighth place at
2:08:47
nationals, but now when you go, it's like, Oh yeah, go find the
2:08:50
weak link. There is no weak link. 8th place
2:08:52
in the javelins. Really freaking tough Eight in
2:08:53
the hammer relay. You know, all the relays have
2:08:56
always been good, but it's just it's just crazy.
2:08:58
But but I am surprised that more and I think the and this isn't a
2:09:03
slam at the coaches that were there when I was there in 2001
2:09:07
because we had amazing coaches that a lot of them are now.
2:09:08
I mean, Lance Brahman, good friend now, you know, is a
2:09:10
professional coach with no one. He was at Spartan and you know,
2:09:13
Dave itself is kicking butt at Sam Houston.
2:09:15
So there's a lot of amazing coaches.
2:09:16
But I think overall the quality well, in this probably actually
2:09:20
goes to the overall track and field coaching body.
2:09:22
But the coach, I was going to say the coaches at junior
2:09:24
college overall are much better, like as a as a group, But that
2:09:28
might actually just be the whole because I think all track and
2:09:30
field coaching has really stepped up.
2:09:32
Like there's just, you know, we have way more very knowledgeable
2:09:35
track coaches today than we did in 2000 and it is certainly
2:09:38
Juco's not amiss of that. It is JUCO has stepped up with
2:09:41
that as well for the quality of coaches as well.
2:09:43
So it is interesting. Is that your number one?
2:09:47
I don't say frustration. Oh, but yes, yeah.
2:09:49
Is that right? And like I said, well, well,
2:09:53
maybe 2-2 years and a month ago, that was me.
2:09:56
You know, I was the one that wasn't applying for.
2:09:58
And then I don't even know how do I convince myself other than
2:10:01
get here and meet the people and see that Like, I'm blown away by
2:10:05
Iowa Central's campus. It's a whole campus.
2:10:07
I'm blown away with yourself awareness because that is a
2:10:09
great point that you know, 2:00-ish years ago, Mike, I was
2:10:12
in that same boat. That's that's a great point.
2:10:15
What what when I when I said you know, is that your number one
2:10:18
frustration and you agreed is the frustration that when you
2:10:22
call a kid or a coach, they don't know about you and or the
2:10:27
junior college opportunity or they think they're above that
2:10:31
they. Think I'm I'm above because
2:10:33
there's definitely people that I've never heard about Iowa
2:10:35
Central, but I'll give it a listen or and one of the first
2:10:37
things now I say when I do my initial recruiting calls and
2:10:40
stuff like that, it's one of my very first questions.
2:10:43
Do you know what junior college is?
2:10:45
Because there are some kids depending on where you're at and
2:10:48
where they don't have a clue where they kind of think they
2:10:50
do, but they don't, right? And there's times, a couple
2:10:52
times I've kind of gotten into and they're like, well, what do
2:10:55
you mean? I'll only be there for two
2:10:56
years. Well, what do you mean?
2:10:57
And it's like, well, this is a community and they just don't
2:10:59
know. And that's not, that's not a
2:11:01
shot at anyone or anything. Depending on where you're at in
2:11:04
the country and things like that, there's not a lot of
2:11:06
community colleges and stuff. I'm a, I'm a, I'm a culprit of
2:11:09
this. But I wonder because I call it
2:11:11
junior, I call it JUCO. It's just easier to say and it's
2:11:13
just what I know. I wonder if we do ourselves a
2:11:15
service by calling it junior college versus Community
2:11:17
College. Cuz junior is automatically
2:11:20
there's junior level and senior level and it's like, no, it's
2:11:22
not bad. It's two years instead of a four
2:11:24
year, but it transfers into a four year.
2:11:27
So yeah, maybe I need to start being part of the solution.
2:11:29
Maybe he's calling it, but I'd say JUCO and I don't think Coco.
2:11:33
Yeah, that doesn't sound right. Well, and the kid like that's
2:11:36
the big, the JUCO product and stuff is a lot of our kids
2:11:38
that's a big chip on their shoulder that that's So I don't
2:11:40
think that's. But I just, yeah, like I said,
2:11:42
it's more the frustration that they immediately shut it down
2:11:45
than they not understand. Because I can, if somebody wants
2:11:47
to learn, I'm all about. I have no problem with that.
2:11:50
Like, you know, like wanting to learn, lack of knowledge, but
2:11:52
wanting to learn is awesome. Yeah.
2:11:54
Just not just thinking that you're better is just.
2:11:56
Ignorant the shutdown of like, yeah, yeah, thanks.
2:11:59
But that almost like the when you're saying, yeah, I had a
2:12:03
couple of transfer kids like that's cute.
2:12:04
Four year school. It's almost like now it's like
2:12:06
that's cute. Junior college.
2:12:09
Iowa State's gonna call me any day now.
2:12:10
And it's like, oh bro, it's they're not.
2:12:13
I'm sorry. I know the coach at Iowa State
2:12:15
he doesn't want you like. That's the other thing.
2:12:20
And I give a lot of grades to 1718 year old kids, but a high
2:12:22
school coach is like, you're a fully formed adult here,
2:12:24
hopefully, right? And it's like, wait a minute, do
2:12:27
you think these junior college coaches don't know every one of
2:12:30
these supposed four year schools that they're gonna be calling
2:12:32
any day now? Like what are you doing here?
2:12:34
You're going to dismiss the person that's very valuable to
2:12:37
the four year school. By the way, I know four year
2:12:39
schools are calling you everyday.
2:12:40
They they understand the power. It's like, man, what are you
2:12:42
doing? All right, start wrapping up
2:12:44
here. But I am curious about your
2:12:47
thought. And I don't think it's official.
2:12:48
I was talking again a couple of a DS this weekend, this whole
2:12:52
that the junior college eligibility doesn't count
2:12:55
towards the four year. And I didn't think about this
2:12:57
because I'm dumb. I thought of it in the
2:12:59
traditional sense. I was like, yeah, that's kind
2:13:01
of, I mean, I kind of get it by the way, when someone's the talk
2:13:04
about, you know, junior colleges and count towards NCAA four year
2:13:07
because it's like they're two different organizations.
2:13:09
I I my pee brain. I get that.
2:13:12
I thought about it in the traditional sense of like, OK,
2:13:14
so kids going to be able to go to Iowa Central for two years
2:13:19
and then go on to, you know, because you're in Iowa.
2:13:21
I keep using Iowa and Iowa State.
2:13:23
Iowa, I would say Drake. I got to be fair to my my guys
2:13:26
at Drake and to go four more years to use up their
2:13:29
incidentally eligible like that's that's cool.
2:13:32
That's kind of crazy, but that's awesome because maybe that means
2:13:34
more people will get grad graduate degree.
2:13:36
So I kind of like that. And as I was telling this to, I
2:13:39
think it was the Lansing AED when the Community College he
2:13:42
goes yeah, he goes no, it was a different Community College.
2:13:44
He goes, yeah, OK, think about this, though.
2:13:46
Kid goes to a four year school, doesn't like it after the red
2:13:50
shirts his first year, now goes to a junior college and does
2:13:54
their two years there and now goes back to a different school.
2:13:56
So they're in their fourth year of school, but they're still a
2:13:58
freshman. And I was like, well, I never
2:14:00
thought about the 242 or 424. I was like, I didn't think about
2:14:04
that. That's like, that's kind of
2:14:05
crazy when you say it that way, but I don't know.
2:14:07
What do you think about this possibility?
2:14:09
Like I said, I in the positive aspect, I thought about the grad
2:14:13
school right off the bat is that, you know, you know, and
2:14:18
now that everybody and not, you know, but like bachelor's
2:14:21
degrees are kind of becoming, you know, they're not as high as
2:14:24
they were in it. It's just going to keep
2:14:26
happening and things like that. The idea that kids can go
2:14:28
through and get, you know, in the kids that need to, I don't
2:14:31
want to use athletic scholarships like a bad thing.
2:14:33
Like, oh, we're just throwing this money away, but they're
2:14:35
getting an education that they need and they're going to turn
2:14:38
around and use that education to get a job and give back And do
2:14:41
you know, it's a phenomenal thing.
2:14:42
So I look at that, you know, we talk about the people, the
2:14:46
career student athletes going to have that no matter what.
2:14:49
And actually at Community College you have two years in
2:14:52
every sport. It's not like the NCAA.
2:14:56
Yes, I have. The only sports I have exhausted
2:14:59
my eligibility with in at the junior college level is indoor
2:15:03
and outdoor track and field. Hold on.
2:15:05
I can. I can go if I'm a full time
2:15:07
student, I can go play softball for two years and then I can
2:15:10
play soccer for two years and I can do shooting sports for two
2:15:12
years and I can do, I can't do rodeo for two years, but I could
2:15:15
at Iowa Central. Yes, I learned that, Yes.
2:15:19
So is not to. Be a full time student, a full.
2:15:21
Time student. And you have, Yeah.
2:15:23
And you have to be, you know, pursuing a degree.
2:15:25
But there isn't like the 10. Semesters, but you can get
2:15:28
multiple associates degrees, so it's not like you get one like
2:15:30
well, you already got that one. You can.
2:15:32
OK, now I'm going to work on my computer science.
2:15:34
Yeah. Is that right?
2:15:36
So there are already workarounds to people being like career
2:15:39
student athletes that they don't use.
2:15:41
Yeah, Yeah. So I mean, I don't know that
2:15:43
that is a great like a good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:15:46
Because there are workarounds to that already and.
2:15:49
Yeah, that's right. In today's world, what we just
2:15:51
have the Miami punter lineback, somebody who was, you know,
2:15:55
their 8th year and 8th year and it's like because of COVID year
2:15:59
and then medical, a couple of medical red shirts.
2:16:02
It's like that happens today. I mean, that kid did go JUCO,
2:16:05
you know? Yeah, yeah.
2:16:06
So there already are, you know, like I don't, we don't have
2:16:09
anyone that at Iowa Central, to my knowledge, that's bouncing
2:16:11
around and getting every single degree to continue to play
2:16:14
college sports. Wait, so.
2:16:16
Oh, wait, no. So I can still run cross
2:16:17
country? I use no cross country
2:16:19
eligibility. So you can't you can't do the
2:16:21
sport at all once you exhaust. So we can't have a kid in two
2:16:24
years. He wins the 100 meter dash the
2:16:27
freshman sophomore year and then decides to go back and get a
2:16:29
different degree and joins the basketball team but still does
2:16:32
track on the he can do basketball he can't do do.
2:16:34
Basketball can't do track, Yeah. You have to be a phenomenal
2:16:36
athlete because again, you go athletics are really good, so to
2:16:40
make another team and that wasn't your main sport like
2:16:42
that, you gotta be. That's crazy.
2:16:45
Because I don't think anyone's doing it, but I'm just there
2:16:47
already is that workaround. So to make the argument, and
2:16:50
you're always going to have those cases.
2:16:52
There's always going to be that one kid that somehow is on their
2:16:55
ninth year of college, NCAA college athletics, and nobody
2:16:58
can figure. So that's the problem is we like
2:17:00
to take that one or two people and now we got to make 10
2:17:04
different rules or we got to hammer the whole system because
2:17:07
look at that one kid. It's like, man, that's one kid.
2:17:09
This isn't a theme. It's it's an outlier.
2:17:12
You know what we do with outliers?
2:17:13
We go, that's cute, move on. So I don't know, you know, I
2:17:18
don't know. I think it will change.
2:17:20
It'll change stuff for us a lot. I think community colleges will
2:17:23
grow because as soon as that court case went through, which
2:17:25
is not a blanket thing, by the way, it's not, we were
2:17:29
immediately getting calls. Kids that had said they're gonna
2:17:31
go for it immediately getting calls.
2:17:32
Well, I'm gonna come to you Co now because it won't count
2:17:34
towards my eligibility. And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa,
2:17:36
whoa, whoa, like. Yeah, you had to dispel the
2:17:39
myths of like, not exactly. Yeah, I don't.
2:17:41
I couldn't even tell you how many times I've explained that.
2:17:44
That right? Yes, because I don't want to be
2:17:46
the coach and I hope nobody out there is doing it.
2:17:48
I don't want to be the I'm not going to lie to a kid.
2:17:50
And then they go on to their four year school and they say,
2:17:53
what do you mean? I only have two more years.
2:17:54
I you know. What do they say?
2:17:57
Any publicity is good publicity. This is a good publicity.
2:17:59
Like more people started paying attention to us, OK.
2:18:01
Yeah, there we go. It's not there yet, but OK,
2:18:04
that's cool. That's cool.
2:18:06
Well, and appreciate your time. You know, you're so graciously
2:18:09
allowed me to go over time. So I have one more question for
2:18:11
you here. As you look, you're staring your
2:18:13
third year in the face here getting ready to to to do that
2:18:17
there at Iowa Central. And you know, you get to answer
2:18:20
this, you get to define future however you like.
2:18:23
Could be next year, could be five years, 10 years.
2:18:25
What's get you excited about the future there at Iowa Central?
2:18:29
So I just think is athletics is such a push here and we have so
2:18:32
much support and things like that.
2:18:33
And you know, Dee Brown has won a lot of national titles.
2:18:38
I always tell people when they come, he's won 40 national
2:18:41
titles and cross country, half marathon, indoor and outdoor
2:18:43
track and field. So no other no other Community
2:18:46
College has done that that, you know, he has these suitcases
2:18:50
full of national championship rings.
2:18:52
Always tell, tell people about he won't tell you, so I'll tell
2:18:55
you. But, you know, it's just, you
2:18:57
know, it's, it's, it's what happens here people.
2:18:59
You know, we're very successful and all of our athletic teams
2:19:02
too. It's not just, you know, I I
2:19:04
really would just want to keep pushing towards 1, you know,
2:19:07
bringing home a trophy. We were, we were 5th on the
2:19:09
men's side and outdoors. So we're we're climbing back up
2:19:13
and stuff. But yeah, it's just to continue
2:19:14
to push to, you know, bring home trophies and hopefully a
2:19:17
national title back to Iowa Central.
2:19:19
That's. Awesome.
2:19:20
Well, I tell you it's I'm just floored with your really young
2:19:26
journey. I mean, you're, you know, I
2:19:29
always like to use like a 400 meter dash as kind of the
2:19:31
example, you know, you're in your what, going into your 13th,
2:19:35
14th ish year. It's. 15th.
2:19:37
Yeah, 15 years, it can easily to be able to look at me like, you
2:19:43
know, I know I'm not retiring tomorrow, but I've done a lot
2:19:47
and things like that. And and I think about it, it's
2:19:49
like, man, if I were to use a 4M analogy, you might be in the
2:19:53
blocks. Like it's easy to say like I'm
2:19:55
around the corner for the final stretch.
2:19:56
Like, no, you're so early. I kind of hope I'm at least 200
2:20:00
meters into a four. 100 you're talking about you know what
2:20:02
you're not. You know why I'm glad you said
2:20:04
that? Because 200 meters is halfway.
2:20:07
Yeah, and that would be 30 years.
2:20:08
You've been coaching 15 years, right?
2:20:10
Yeah. You're not.
2:20:11
You're not even, you're not gonna coach just 15 years.
2:20:14
I hope that you make so much money that you're able to retire
2:20:17
at that age that that would be a young early retirement.
2:20:20
You're gonna coach maybe 20 more years.
2:20:22
And with today's, you know, we keep getting the healthcare
2:20:25
advances of what we're doing. You may coach for the next 25
2:20:28
years. OK.
2:20:30
What you think you're halves like, oh, you're about to do
2:20:32
that again. You've coached for 15.
2:20:33
That's been a long time and it certainly is.
2:20:35
You're going to do that again. And by the way, the second-half
2:20:38
of that 15 in 20 years, you're ahead of the game and ain't like
2:20:41
when you first got into it And you're like, I mean, I got to
2:20:43
figure out where the I don't even know what eligibility
2:20:45
means. I got to figure out how to make
2:20:46
a kid eligible. You're already you're so far
2:20:47
advanced, man. It's just so cool to see what
2:20:50
you've accomplished the the young people that you positively
2:20:54
impacted in this short amount of time that I know at times can
2:20:56
feel long, but in this short amount of time, what it's going
2:20:59
to be the next 1020, maybe 30 years, man, It's just so cool to
2:21:03
to see. And you know, I think I think
2:21:05
you might have been a little bit more successful these 15 years
2:21:09
than the average coach of 15 years because yourself awareness
2:21:12
is off the chart. And I mean, I think a lot of
2:21:17
people the way you explained of like, Hey, I was that person
2:21:20
when, you know, when the job came open at at Iowa Central and
2:21:23
I was like, I don't want to think about you could you goes
2:21:24
this but and, and I don't think people would have said that
2:21:28
they'd been like, you know, it's a different route, blah, blah,
2:21:31
blah. You had the awareness of like, I
2:21:32
was that person. I I, I get when someone calls me
2:21:35
and tells me or I call them and they don't understand, it's
2:21:36
like, yeah, me neither. I didn't either, you know, so
2:21:39
you're yourself awareness just off the charts.
2:21:41
And I think that's got to be not only a huge blessing to your
2:21:44
athletes, I got to imagine you're an amazing teammate of
2:21:48
your staff there at Iowa Central and the athletic department.
2:21:51
You got to be, I bet you if I went and asked all of them.
2:21:54
So tell me about Anne. How do you like working with
2:21:55
her? I bet people are like, oh man,
2:21:57
you know what? Anne makes me better.
2:21:59
Like I just see you as that self-awareness is just a big key
2:22:02
to help keep yourself in check. So you're a good you know, you
2:22:05
yourself are doing the right things for your team and you're
2:22:07
helping your teammates. And that's just, that's so cool
2:22:09
to see from the sidelines here. Well, thank you.
2:22:11
My husband would argue that I'm not a good teammate.
2:22:14
Yeah, well, you know that. That that's why I'm a track and
2:22:17
field. Coach as I'm blessed that my
2:22:19
wife does clean. Thank you, Amy.
2:22:21
Love you. Yeah.
2:22:22
I could see him be like yeah, dude, listen, man, I got to pick
2:22:25
up everything but you know what? And I'm sorry, not Sam.
2:22:30
Sam want to see Sam? It's.
2:22:31
OK. Pat, I'm sorry because I know
2:22:33
you're listening. Pat, thank you.
2:22:35
You know you're you're helping balance the scales because I'm a
2:22:38
guy who doesn't pick up anything.
2:22:39
You're the guy who does it all. Love you, brother.
2:22:41
Thank you so much for doing that and being such a great dad and a
2:22:44
great spouse for a track and field coach as well, my man.
2:22:47
And thank you so much. You know the this was awesome.
2:22:50
I this is well worth the wait. You know, we've been talking
2:22:53
since what, March or something like.
2:22:54
I kept thinking I could just keep putting it off and you
2:22:57
didn't know when your boss signs.
2:22:59
When your boss signs you up, it makes it hard to say no.
2:23:02
Yeah, when I was like, you know who said who actually nominated
2:23:05
you? That guy you think so much of
2:23:07
your boss, he thought you should be on it.
2:23:09
And you know what? Because I know Dee, I know
2:23:10
you're listening as well. Brother, you nailed her brother.
2:23:12
She's she's awesome. You're lucky to have her on your
2:23:14
staff. And I know, I know you know that
2:23:16
and know the Iowa Central Athletic department knows that
2:23:19
as well. But, and thanks so much for your
2:23:21
time. That is the most valuable thing
2:23:22
you can give me. You're busy.
2:23:23
I, I, you know, you talked about you're going on vacation soon.
2:23:25
You deserve that. You've got a six year old.
2:23:28
I know what that's like that. It's its own full time job.
2:23:31
You're recruiting does not stop. I know you probably had 10 calls
2:23:34
come in when we've been here just recording this.
2:23:36
So just so grateful for your time.
2:23:38
So grateful for your openness and authenticity.
2:23:41
I hope you had a good time. I know I certainly did, and I
2:23:43
know the the listeners did as well.
2:23:45
Well, thank you very much for your time as well.
2:23:47
Awesome. So guys and guys, thank you so
2:23:48
much. You know, I, I, I tried to, we,
2:23:52
we allot 2 hours for these interviews and I try to be
2:23:54
around an hour and a half hour and 40 depending on what it is.
2:23:57
I've noticed because I remember. So the, the person we're talking
2:23:59
about who's good friends with Dee is Mark.
2:24:01
He's over at Iowa Western, not Central.
2:24:03
I get those things mixed up all the time.
2:24:05
I know when I talked to Mark, I probably called him Iowa Central
2:24:07
too, but his was over 2 hours as well.
2:24:10
I, there's something with the junior college coaches.
2:24:12
I told my heart is there guys and gals, So you can just, if
2:24:15
you see a future episode with a JUCO coach on it, just know we
2:24:19
banging for two hours, man. We, we got to get into it
2:24:21
because it's just so, so critical to not only our track
2:24:24
and field environment and, and society, but to our to our
2:24:27
college society. I think it's super important.
2:24:30
Thank you again for being here this week.
2:24:31
Join us next week. We'll do it all over here.
2:24:33
Thanks guys. The goals to appreciate the
2:24:38
coach the ones that pour people most every season needs a voice
2:24:41
of reason speaking the growth you got to prep before you carry
2:24:44
the load ice coffee to the soul For those of us stay on the go
2:24:48
proper handoff to stay in the zone which you packing for the
2:24:51
road. There's more than one way to go
2:24:53
taking those that's paying you're told it ain't practice if
2:24:55
you're perfect Saint Clair it can't happen until you listen
2:24:58
with both is you can't mentor without a mentor of experience.
2:25:02
You can reinvent those years. Every plan's got to stand and
2:25:05
deliver to the price sacrifice. Can you give up you.
2:25:09
It's a choice and a fight, not a win or lose.
2:25:11
It's not a ploy boy device. Y'all can make more moves.
2:25:14
It's not about how to, it's all about why.
2:25:16
You don't know till you know who you are inside 6 when you waste
2:25:20
the time, choose none. So y'all of course finish line,
2:25:22
the work ain't done so we learn from the experts, but y'all got
2:25:25
to put in the leg work. Guil athletics use the network.
2:25:28
It's all about connections put together for the profession to
2:25:31
where every track coach could be blessed.