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How Macallan Became a Luxury Icon with Ken Grier · Whisky Unfinished

• 0:00
  If there's one question you ought to ask somebody from the Macallan who never could. What would it be?
• 0:06
  If you could go back in time, one thing you would not have done that you did.
• 0:13
  It's a good job they can't fire me, because I'm going to have to answer your question.
• 0:19
  Today is a very special day for me because we've got an old friend here, Ken Grier, who worked at Macallan as Creative Director.
• 0:27
  I kind of went for three years and stayed for 20 because I fell deeply in love with the brand. 40 year old Edrington blend here.
• 0:33
  Do you want to know the Bond story?
• 0:34
  Everyone wants the Bond story. I was invited to the world premiere at the Royal Albert Hall. And later on, this scene happened.
• 0:41
  50 year old Macallan. A particular favourite of yours.
• 0:45
  We got half a billion dollars worth of PR for six months.
• 0:48
  Springbank, 1996. What's the one thing you would steal from the Macallan playbook, the Macallan storybook, that you'd give as a piece of advice to the founders and marketers who are listening right now?
• 1:01
  So you asked me, and I'm going to tell you.
• 1:02
  Thank you for being here.
• 1:02
  Please don't fire me.
• 1:04
  I don't work for you anymore.
• 1:04
  Whisky chief, raise the glass.
• 1:16
  Hey guys, Rickesh here, the Whisky Chief.
• 1:18
  Firstly, thank you so much for watching this.
• 1:20
  I really appreciate it. If you could like and subscribe below, it really helps us bring the best whiskies to you and keep doing this show the best we can.
• 1:27
  Thanks.
• 1:28
  Welcome to whisky Unfinished, where the whisky is never done and neither is the conversation. Today is a very special day for me because we've got an old friend here, Ken Grier, who worked at Macallan from 1998 to 2018, mostly as Creative Director, so responsible for a lot of the Macallan or the huge majority of the Macallan that all of us have enjoyed over the last 20, 25, 30 years.
• 1:53
  We're gonna focus today a little bit on how you build or how you built rather a relatively small brand, Scottish brand into a global luxury icon.
• 2:05
  I think everyone in the world has heard of the Macallan before.
• 2:08
  So I'm very excited to dive into a bit of a conversation.
• 2:13
  I really appreciate your time. Well, Rickesh, it's a pleasure just to tell a little bit about the story.
• 2:17
  I mean, it was really.
• 2:19
  Team effort. There were so many people involved in taking that brand forward, but it really was kind of a at all time. I mean, I joined Edrington to look after famous Grouse, ran the business in Europe for the guys, and then really fell in love with the Macallan 98 and 99. And it really was a very special time of my life and something quite unique, and something I'm incredibly proud of and still love to this day.
• 2:44
  I mean, I retired about eight years ago, founded a little business called De-Still creative limited. I worked with a bunch of really interesting clients helping them with.
• 2:53
  Their brands and for them to be all they can be, but this is always a very special time. The time at Macallan was very unique.
• 2:58
  Well, along those lines, we hope to, as we were discussing right before we started, try a few different Macallans. It's hard to prepare a whisky tasting for someone of your stature, but we've tried to pick some unique things, hopefully.
• 3:11
  That's the goal for today. So, from a whisky theme perspective, we're gonna try three Macallan-involved whiskies.
• 3:19
  Let's put it that way. So, we'll get through them.
• 3:21
  One of them is a blend that we know has some Macallan in it.
• 3:24
  One is a Macallan-style whisky, so not a Macallan, and one is a Macallan.
• 3:29
  So, we've got three very different whiskies.
• 3:31
  And then just for fun, I threw in a Springbank'cause I love Springbank and I wanted to share a Springbank with you.
• 3:36
  And this is a single cask of 1996 Springbank.
• 3:40
  So turning 30 years old later this year.
• 3:42
  And I thought right before you have a very long flight home, you could enjoy a little 30-year-old Springbank. I think that's what they should serve in business class on on flights. They don't do enough of that.
• 3:52
  I think that's right. And as somebody who really loves Scotch whisky, I mean, it's great to discover one old friend here.
• 3:59
  Couple of different riffs on where we were.
• 4:01
  And something again that I think is a very well-respected brand in Springbank with some of the different characters.
• 4:07
  That's the idea. Anyway, converse.
• 4:09
  What do you want to talk about?
• 4:10
  Well, let's start with the whisky.
• 4:11
  I think we can't go too long without, you know, first trying a whisky.
• 4:20
  So here we are. 21 year old Macallan, we know that.
• 4:23
  Distilled sometime in the 1970s.
• 4:26
  We know that. Bottled sometime in the 1990s at 40% ABV.
• 4:31
  This is the Glen Fraser.
• 4:34
  Independent bottling of Macallan.
• 4:37
  You know this whisky. What can you tell me about this whisky?
• 4:39
  Well, the guys had a relationship of longstanding with Gordon & MacPhail around the Speymalt product. This Glen Fraser, I believe, came about because how funny is this? Uh Gordon & MacPhail had a surplus of older Macallan.
• 4:53
  So they simply bottle it up under a trade name of Glen Fraser.
• 4:56
  I love this liquid. This would be one of my top 10 drams.
• 4:58
  I find it.
• 5:00
  On the nose, I get modelling clay, I get gym shoes, I get yacht varnish, this sort of lacquer note. There's a little bit of oxidation there.
• 5:09
  It certainly has that grapiness that I would associate, you know, with sherry casks without any. Huge tanning about it.
• 5:17
  It's just simply a sumptuous whisky.
• 5:19
  It is delicious. What do you know about?
• 5:22
  The distillation method or anything that would have been different in the nineteen seventies when they had you know, when they first made this whisky, when they first filled it, or was it the casks that were different?
• 5:33
  Sorry, remember that, you know.
• 5:36
  Just probably making it sketchy, but I was never really um sort of distilleries, so she need to see your old friend David Robertson for that.
• 5:43
  But what I would say would be Golden Promise barley.
• 5:47
  You know, an older barley variant which would have a very traditional taste to this.
• 5:52
  So you are getting what I would say is a classic traditional Scotch whisky flavour profile.
• 5:58
  The yeast in that as well, there was actually distillers and brewers yeast used at the time. So that would be different.
• 6:04
  The stills would have been direct fired, so you kinda get like boiling a pan of soup. So you get this little baked good snow coming through there.
• 6:13
  And I love soups. So you get this kind of really heated up intensity coming through there. I think we had a lot more people.
• 6:22
  In the warehouse at the operation, right?
• 6:24
  This was the 1970s, so very little technology.
• 6:27
  Little bit of boil over. Yeah. You get some.
• 6:33
  Consistency because it's very much a craft product then.
• 6:36
  There were things that were done then with a specific purpose that was about heritage, the way we've always done it.
• 6:42
  I think it's just a beautiful time capsule of a whisky.
• 6:45
  Slàinte. Slàinte, cheers.
• 6:45
  Cheers, good health.
• 6:47
  Thank you. And you want me to rate this out of 10?
• 6:49
  I would give this a solid 8.7 out of 10.
• 6:52
  8.7. High rating coming out the block.
• 6:54
  So, just as a reminder, one is utter shite.
• 6:57
  10 is Scottish Freedom. 8.7.
• 6:57
  I think we're pretty high.
• 7:01
  I'm going to go a little higher than you can on this one because, and I'm biased.
• 7:05
  I'm going to have to give up my bias here because this is my go-to if I'm having a great dram. I'm going to go with a nine.
• 7:13
  I'm going to say this is up there at nine for a while.
• 7:15
  I've got to see, I've got to tell you about my top shelf, bottom shelf.
• 7:18
  Philosophy. Playing in my cabinet at home, my wife is allowed to drink anything on the top shelf. The bottom shelf is mine.
• 7:25
  This is you've reversed it. You've kept the good stuff at the bottom.
• 7:28
  I have basically got this in the back left-hand corner of the bottom shelf.
• 7:32
  This is here. So, this is my rating.
• 7:34
  Right. So, I think this is a stupendous whisky.
• 7:37
  This is one, if you get a chance to buy this, buy.
• 7:41
  Open, drink and enjoy. But yes, it is.
• 7:44
  You know, just I don't think there's much out there in the world, to be honest.
• 7:47
  No, I don't think so.
• 7:47
  It's very hard to find.
• 7:48
  It's beautiful, which is why my heart sang when you had that as the first dram tonight. Yeah, because you know, baby, come to daddy.
• 7:56
  This is just gorgeous. It's beautiful.
• 7:58
  There's the bite we were looking for at baby, come to daddy.
• 8:01
  So take us back to 1998, right?
• 8:05
  You're just starting at the Macallan.
• 8:07
  What was the Macallan known for, not known for, and when you came in, what were some of the things you saw as opportunity?
• 8:14
  Well, I was kind of in the 98, beginning of 99, and whatever on that.
• 8:18
  The factory within that. The brand had always danced to its own beat because, you know, it had a little bit of a history.
• 8:26
  But mostly sold to blends, would that be fair to say?
• 8:28
  Yeah, it it was. And when the the second still houses opened probably 1960s, early 70s, it was because Macallan was always seen as a great top dressing malt.
• 8:37
  It was kind of little bouillon that would be put in there to just give you that little kick in the blend. But you know, if you look at what had happened around there, it had a strong history of.
• 8:48
  Doing its own thing of the whisky making team at that time chose casks they thought were great, that they were right.
• 8:55
  There was really little adherence to early the age in the bottle.
• 8:57
  It was about what do we think should be in here.
• 9:00
  So they really were very passionate, very proud.
• 9:02
  It was known really for great quality. Great idiosyncrasy, a high degree of you know, with Allan Shiach and whatever in particular, Allan, of course, was a brilliantly involved in the film industry, wrote the script for don't look now under the nom de plume Allan Scott. He was very flamboyant and still is a lovely man.
• 9:23
  And he gave this a real chutzpah, real character, a real point of difference.
• 9:29
  So exceptional liquid, focus and quality.
• 9:32
  The sherry backbone to the brand was renowned.
• 9:35
  And I came into something that really kind of our ambition at that point was to be number one in Scotland.
• 9:41
  And that was kind of it, you know, and it had been sold and.
• 9:45
  Bars, it had done some interesting, you know, work with things like the Atlantic Salmon Monthly, arcane publications like that.
• 9:52
  It had these incredible little ads from Holmes Knight Ritchie.
• 9:56
  So it was a very quirky, interesting thing.
• 9:58
  You're saying the quality was there, but what was the conception from a brand?
• 10:02
  If I was a consumer back then, it was quirky, that's how I would have thought of me.
• 10:06
  The conception was to have a quirky humour.
• 10:10
  To have a perspective in the world, to do things that they thought were interesting.
• 10:15
  It really was Willie Phillips, it was Hugh Metcalfe who were the team at the time.
• 10:20
  Doing it. And kind of my role coming in was the view that I thought: well, the vision for me should be even bolder, even bigger, even greater.
• 10:27
  This is too big. Just to kind of be within the bounds of Scotland.
• 10:31
  We kind of started, it was a guy called Matt Turner that worked with me on this at the time. And we kind of got to the view that two things.
• 10:37
  One is we thought of our way of encapsulating where we wanted to go, which is about making the world's most precious whisky.
• 10:44
  Because things that are precious to you are actually quite emotionally connected.
• 10:47
  They're not only very rare, which Macallan was, and it was under allocation, not only very finely wrought. But obviously they are emotionally very pretty.
• 10:55
  The emotional connection, that's so important.
• 10:56
  So this idea of the world's most precious whisky was was kind of our watchword.
• 11:00
  We also looked at thinking about those people internationally might not have known the brand, that probably are highly discerning people.
• 11:08
  Um they can afford the best.
• 11:10
  Macallan was always quite deliberately priced a sensible level, reflected all the great ingredients, the craft, the time.
• 11:19
  So people thought it was something worth paying more for.
• 11:22
  So we kind of said, okay, if we're world's most precious whisky, we gotta take it out there. And a lot of markets have been about blend, blend, blend.
• 11:29
  We said, well, you know, this is kind of a little bit like chateau bottled wine, it's something that's single malt.
• 11:35
  Was not as well known as it is now.
• 11:37
  Was it known anywhere? Was it known in the UK and the US at that time?
• 11:40
  I mean, known in the US, a lot of good work could be done with the brand in the US.
• 11:44
  The brand wasn't actually terribly well known in Asia.
• 11:47
  We had a really good relationship then with Suntory and still do.
• 11:50
  So Japan it had got a bit of a foothold.
• 11:53
  The brand had this reputation of being great quality, really interesting, doing its own thing. But also, I think really through the 18 years old product, in particular with the vintages, it was seen as something that people collected, appreciated, discussed the merits of different age.
• 12:08
  Well, some might say, I would probably agree, Macallan was the brand, at least for me growing up, kind of learning about whisky, that really made age important.
• 12:19
  Would you agree with that in the sense that obviously ages always existed in in whisky, but but Macallan had an emphasis on eighteen, Macallan eighteen.
• 12:29
  I would say even in today's world, Macallan eighteen means something.
• 12:32
  I think it's interesting. I think to me it's it's slightly different in that I think all great brands have an iconic showcase.
• 12:39
  Um and eighteen just happened to be that sweet spot because the liquid is superb at that, and it'll always be in my top three whiskies through my whole life. You know, Macallan 18 is very, very iconic, finely wrought.
• 12:51
  And I think because people had appreciated this vintage, this 18.
• 12:55
  It had gained that sort of fame around that.
• 12:58
  I think what we tried to do within that is.
• 13:01
  To really bring it out to more people around the world.
• 13:04
  Particularly, I think Asia was, apart from Japan, was relatively underexploited.
• 13:09
  The US, the UK were fine. There were parts of the world like Italy, France, where we had some great distributors and built it.
• 13:16
  So the first place we started was saying, look, let's think about this as a very precious thing. Let's say it's not something everyone can necessarily find because we're a limited amount. We talk about being finely wrought, but we also wanted to do something that captured the imagination of consumers.
• 13:31
  So that was really when this thing began.
• 13:34
  The new bottle in 1994, which set it apart.
• 13:38
  Building on the shoulders of giants because in the Shiach regime, the guys had a very creative take on the brand.
• 13:45
  They weren't afraid to do interesting, challenge, different things.
• 13:48
  So the narrative they had around it, the things that were interesting, different.
• 13:52
  And it was kind of building that.
• 13:54
  And I think there's a confidence in marketing.
• 13:57
  Where if you don't just go in.
• 13:59
  People used to say it was redesign, relaunch, resign, and people would move on to another brand.
• 14:06
  I kinda went for three years and stayed for twenty because I fell deeply in love with the brand. And really had a passion for making it all it could be.
• 14:13
  And because of the great fundament we had, it was kind of then.
• 14:18
  Permission to do things in a very different way.
• 14:20
  And if you look at it firstly, you know, if you took to China, for instance, you know, we would do a blind taste test.
• 14:26
  You know, against leading products whenever they say, Oh my God, that sherry character, it's amazing, it's great.
• 14:32
  It was about something that was very rich, resonant.
• 14:35
  We knew that we had that we bought about 90% of the sherry casks in the industry and we paid 10 times more for them.
• 14:42
  Therefore, we had to celebrate the quality, the quirky personality, be an international brand in the hottish, spottish around the world.
• 14:51
  And that was kind of what we was trying to do.
• 14:52
  And my nature is to be.
• 14:55
  Slightly flamboyant. To be quite creative.
• 14:58
  So I had really the permission.
• 15:00
  And Edrington were great with me.
• 15:02
  You know, guys like Bill Farr, I worked with, you know, Ian Curle, the CEO, they were great people who really appreciated that we had to have a bit of panache, a bit of swagger and to do things differently.
• 15:12
  When you look back and for yourself personally, where do you think this creativeness comes from I think I'm a bit of a non-conformist, to be honest.
• 15:21
  Somebody that consumes and stimulus, whether it's movies, whether it's books, whether it's poetry, whether it's photography, everything, I think I've always consumed that, repurposed it, used it. And I think that's always been innate and will always be thus.
• 15:39
  But I think I kind of, everyone kind of finds the meti, and I found something that I loved.
• 15:46
  Something where I had my place.
• 15:48
  And something also people appreciated and were comfortable with.
• 15:52
  And I think nowadays we're we live perhaps in a different time in Scotch whisky where people are finding challenges in affordability.
• 15:59
  There are a lot of brands out there, there's a lot of different styles.
• 16:02
  The media has changed and the way you can tell the story and I think it's a good thing. So I think at that time I was kind of in the right place at the right time.
• 16:10
  And the liquid stuff. We're all very grateful you were there.
• 16:14
  No, I'm grateful. I'm incredibly grateful I had that opportunity.
• 16:17
  It was a wonderful part of my life that shaped me and hopefully helped shape the brand considerably. It definitely did.
• 16:23
  I mean, we're all thankful for all the different releases we saw through Macallan.
• 16:26
  If you could think back over those 20 years, and I know this is a difficult question, but if you had to pick one.
• 16:33
  Creative decision that you made that most changed Macallan's trajectory, good or bad, whatever that is. What do you think if you could pincer?
• 16:43
  I can't give you one. I'll give you three.
• 16:44
  All right. I mean, give me three quickly.
• 16:46
  And I know they were. Slightly time constrained because I would sit here with wonderful waste because that is for at least six hours and we've we've got enough whisky.
• 16:53
  There's no lack of whisky.
• 16:55
  It's your flight.
• 16:58
  Yeah, well I'd love to. But you would probably drop off because it's so dull.
• 17:01
  But I would say there are three things.
• 17:03
  One is it was an appreciation of us building the real collector's market in Scotch whisky. And I think it was about finding.
• 17:11
  Fine and rare. And fine and rare was the brainchild of, David Cox, or Jason Craig, so David Robertson, a lot of great people that were involved within that.
• 17:19
  I mean, I helped hopefully facilitate an environment where they could be all they could be. And we come up with a great idea.
• 17:24
  And nothing like that had ever really been done at that time.
• 17:26
  We're talking about early 2000s, the Macallan fine and rare.
• 17:30
  Yeah, except probably it was about 2002.
• 17:33
  Yeah. The Macallan fine and rare.
• 17:34
  And we had a lot of cyclonic. We had a lot of friends out there, like Sukhinder, like Giuseppe Benone, some of the great Zagattis, the great collectors, and whatever within it. And I think the thing about appreciating and volume, the real scarcity.
• 17:47
  Of whiskies that were kind of beautifully sleeping, evaporating away, bringing them to the world. So I think the first thing was to have the courage to really embrace the fact that these were.
• 17:58
  Much more akin to the great fine wine brands like Pétrus were over there.
• 18:02
  And to make sure that we were careful about the way we nurtured them, we were creative in the way that we got them out there.
• 18:10
  And it became a ceremony, a pleasure and a joy.
• 18:13
  So I think the way that we built and we really did build the collector's market, and I think the brand still has 45 to 50% by value all of the collector's market.
• 18:22
  I think we set out to do that very deliberately.
• 18:25
  So there was a purpose, and that established the cachet, it used the scarcity, and it meant we celebrated great whisky.
• 18:31
  So that was thing one. I think thing two was about doing things where we've swung the bat in a way that was about narrative.
• 18:38
  So we built on the background from the Shiach era about creativity.
• 18:42
  Zaninas quirky, and we did great things.
• 18:44
  And I'll always love Masters of photography.
• 18:46
  I adore photography. My father was a photographic retailer.
• 18:51
  Camera dealer, we shot from when I was a small kid.
• 18:54
  And I kind of was out with the Absolut guys and saw the only person that had really done stuff. You know, and there it was, was these people.
• 19:02
  They did a great project with Helmut Newton and the Isaatel.
• 19:04
  And I thought, oh, that's cool.
• 19:06
  They might see our very dear friends at chateau Mouton Rothschild and this kind of idea of them using artists for the labels thought was interesting.
• 19:13
  But yeah, they've done that forever, right?
• 19:15
  There's every Mouton vintage is a new artist.
• 19:19
  I remember distinctly, I moved to Hong Kong in 2009, which was when into the 2008 vintage en primeur came out, was the first time they Mouton had ever used a Chinese artist, right?
• 19:31
  Which is cool. And that was a big, that was a big.
• 19:33
  Big piece of news. And the thing about this to create a season is that not only was wonderful whiskies, it fitted the theme.
• 19:41
  Had a different story to tell to use the medium of photography to it.
• 19:45
  Was with great. So I settled on something quite controversial and used Rankin.
• 19:50
  The fashion photographer, he's a great guy.
• 19:52
  And we actually shot his delightful wife, Tuuli.
• 19:54
  Uh with no clothes on.
• 19:57
  In the distillery, when we're kind of between redeveloping Still House Two and bringing it back alive again, and we use this beautiful analogy of a wonderful person, a highly tasteful, gorgeous, and aesthetically wonderful way as an analogy.
• 20:13
  And my very dear friend Valerie Wicks, who's a wonderful Creative Director, she us with the story. Originally it was going to be one image and it was an image of this beautiful girl with the shape of her shoulder lying down in the still house aping the line arm on the still.
• 20:29
  And the night before we met with Rankin to agree the deal, Val called me and she said, look. Don't do one image, do a thousand images.
• 20:36
  We went, this is crazy. We made it even crazier because there was a lady called Alyssa Conan, who was Rankin's agent, she went, no, no, and Rankin went, no, no, listen. So he said, I'll do it.
• 20:46
  But only if I can do it with Polaroid.
• 20:48
  And that was when Polaroid was about to be discontinued because people are moving from film to digital. So he said, I'll do it if I can shoot it all in Polaroid.
• 20:55
  So we kind of had this crew up.
• 20:57
  We bought all the remaining Polaroid film in the UK.
• 21:00
  Wow. And we put it into a couple of trucks.
• 21:02
  We moved it to Macallan. Why did he only want to do Polaroid?
• 21:04
  Just because it was one off. It was one off.
• 21:07
  Yeah. Because truly, there within it, once you have this artifact, it's a dying.
• 21:12
  Process at that point has been revamped a bit now, but you know, it was dying then, it was a one-off thing, and we thought it should be a one-off.
• 21:19
  So we shot 6,000 images in a weekend, but we needed about 10,000 to get through to get a thousand.
• 21:26
  Pictures. Great ones. So he said I'll come back.
• 21:28
  And his wife was one picture.
• 21:31
  But his wife loved to ride horses, so we had a batch, they'll come back and we'll ride in the beach.
• 21:37
  So we did another 4,000, spend up over 10,000 images.
• 21:40
  And because it was a highly aesthetic project, we had to get permission from the Portman group, the Scotch whisky Association, spend out with 1,046 images, which we called down to 1,000. Were you part of that selection process for that?
• 21:53
  And what was that process like?
• 21:54
  Even trying to lay them all out even though the guys shot like maniacs.
• 22:00
  Okay.
• 22:01
  We'd also say put a dressing gown on and we came in and we threw them on the table at Macallan. And then we went, I like that, I like that, I don't like that.
• 22:08
  So we kind of edited as we went along there, which was so energising and interesting. And we came up with something which I think was sublimely beautiful.
• 22:15
  And we created a book which is like a house brick, I still have one at home.
• 22:19
  And we did something which was truly, truly amazing.
• 22:23
  So that was again another creative intervention.
• 22:25
  So we'd had the building of finery and collectible whisky.
• 22:28
  We had they're really establishing us as the created narrative force doing things that were interesting, talked about, and people loved them.
• 22:37
  So that was number two. The third thing really was the distillery.
• 22:40
  Because I sat down at a little table next to my desk and the sales and marketing office in Perth.
• 22:46
  And I sat down with a guy called Robin Gillis, who's Director of Distillation.
• 22:50
  And we said, this is going so incredibly well.
• 22:53
  We just don't have enough liquid.
• 22:55
  It's kind of like the Jaws moment.
• 22:56
  We need a bigger boat. So we said, what do we do?
• 22:59
  And we said, okay, do we build a subtle wiggly tin shed somewhere in a field?
• 23:04
  I looked up and it was a book.
• 23:06
  On my bookcase, and it was called great Wineries of the world.
• 23:09
  It was actually not my book, but it had a picture of Bodegas Ysios by Calatrava.
• 23:15
  I said, no, let's not do that, let's do this.
• 23:18
  So what? So the Edrington board were great and our partners at Suntory and Grant's were great and they said okay explore it.
• 23:23
  So we kind of went out there and we'd had a competition with some of the world's great architects.
• 23:28
  And we ended up working with Rogers Stirk Harbour + partners, and they came up with a beautiful building that was, I always think of it kind of like the Bond villain's lair out of Thunderball, you know, or you only live Twice, particularly the volcano and you only live Twice. We kind of had this underground style.
• 23:46
  Distillery. The only thing we were missing was the missile silos.
• 23:49
  And so we kind of had it based out of what was a landform called a Broch, which is like an ancient burial landform.
• 23:57
  So we kind of had this great underground distillery with this incredible.
• 24:02
  Wooden framework, the most complex roof structure in the world.
• 24:05
  This amazing Cave Privée. I mean, the roof structure almost looks like, I think there was some connection almost like an airport terminal in the top.
• 24:14
  And there was something to do with the landscape as well, right?
• 24:17
  How it fit into the landscape fits beautifully into the Speyside land.
• 24:20
  So it was the only named architect design distillery ever built.
• 24:25
  And it was huge in its audacity, its beauty.
• 24:28
  And it was set. And its cost.
• 24:28
  And they ended up £140 million.
• 24:33
  And within that, it was a statement for the brand.
• 24:36
  It gave us more capacity to produce more so more people could enjoy the brand.
• 24:40
  It gave us great production facilities to ensure superb whisky.
• 24:44
  It made a statement about the position of the brand, its sumptuous nature, its aesthetic beauty.
• 24:50
  And we had the the the guys who did Jean-Michel Jarre's light shows.
• 24:56
  Um came and did the light show.
• 24:57
  And if I could go back to God, we did this thrice.
• 25:02
  If I go back to five minutes in my life when we did this with Bob Stair, put these incredible spider lights. We did it three times for five minutes.
• 25:12
  It was the most incredible thing I've ever been involved in.
• 25:14
  You can still see it online. So those things really about building the brand's rarity, the audacity of being highly creative.
• 25:24
  Um sheer.
• 25:26
  Vision or bringing together an entirely new distillery in a different way.
• 25:29
  I think all of these things helped us.
• 25:32
  To use the great liquid appropriately.
• 25:36
  To do things that met different needs.
• 25:40
  Built the brand not only as an icon, but as something which became truly investment grade at that time, and something that had a freedom.
• 25:47
  Beauty and really I'm so gratified now to see the way it has become.
• 25:52
  The definitive you know, benchmark for luxury whisky.
• 25:56
  It was a good time. Absolutely.
• 25:57
  Thank you so much for those of those stories I'd never heard before.
• 26:00
  So I love it. Let's try whisky.
• 26:02
  I think you've earned it. Whisky number two.
• 26:08
  Whisky Unfinished! So 40-year-old Edrington blend here.
• 26:13
  I don't know what's in this blend.
• 26:15
  No one tells me what's in this blend.
• 26:17
  This was a single cask we had as part of the purchase of a much larger cask portfolio. We know it was 1976 distilled, and we bottled it in 2016 and at 46% ABV. There's definitely some.
• 26:32
  Highland Park, some Macallan. Well it's it's interesting coming through from that.
• 26:36
  Again, you get this kind of gym shoe note.
• 26:39
  Like an old training room or whatever, within that, you get that oxidation, you get the unctuous.
• 26:44
  Nature of the sherry coming through.
• 26:46
  You can tell that this has been in a probably a butt because there's that kind of long, languorous, rich feel to it.
• 26:53
  But I do get the Highland Park.
• 26:55
  I get the heather honey, a heather-peat honey coming through.
• 26:59
  On that. It's there's definitely some Highland Park in there.
• 27:01
  Which you wouldn't get obviously in in Macallan by itself.
• 27:04
  So I mean it kind of is interesting to to see it.
• 27:07
  I think there might be some other stuff in there.
• 27:08
  I think there's probably some Glengoyne in there, maybe a little bit of Glenrothes.
• 27:11
  So it's absolutely delicious. As blends go, this is top grade.
• 27:15
  All right. What are you giving this one out of 10 then?
• 27:17
  Let's give it a 10. I would give it eight and a half out of 10.
• 27:20
  I would agree. I would give it eight and a half.
• 27:23
  It's a stunning example of why people fell in love with blends.
• 27:27
  I was always told that. A great blend is like having pasta and sauce.
• 27:32
  The greens, but it is the pasta.
• 27:35
  And the malts, the spaghetti sauce, and that.
• 27:38
  And I think this is a great example of how both are working together with great balance, one improving the other.
• 27:44
  It's an epic blend. That's what I think.
• 27:46
  And I think when it hit 40 and you taste that, you go, we're not going to try to go any further. I mean, this is this, it's not necessarily getting any better than that. Maybe it would have, but we felt this is just fantastic.
• 27:57
  I think it's something interesting because I think also many whiskies hit a sweet spot at certain ages.
• 28:01
  Yeah. I mean, I'll be.
• 28:03
  Depending on the cask, right? Yeah.
• 28:05
  And when I.
• 28:08
  Non-age statement whisky. It was with a very specific purpose.
• 28:11
  It was about saying that whiskies are very often like apples in a tree.
• 28:15
  You know, when you think, okay, it's gotta be a certain date to hit an age statement bottle.
• 28:20
  Kind of when you have an apple tree in your garden, you pick the apple and it's ripest, juiciest and best. And some casks can go a long way.
• 28:28
  40, 50. Other casks reach the peak at 8, 9, 10, 14, or whatever it is within that.
• 28:34
  And I think it's a real art. And Bob Dalgarno, who's a great whisky maker, you know, Bob and I work very closely on that.
• 28:40
  We're still very proud about some of the work we've done.
• 28:43
  Not just in some of the non-age ranges, but in things like the M Decanter.
• 28:47
  That we did there, which is a beautiful piece.
• 28:49
  Thank you, Silvio Denz and the team at Lalique.
• 28:52
  But I think the whisky in that is a great example of some extraordinarily old whiskies, more than 60 years old, but also some whiskies that have give a vibrancy.
• 29:01
  That they are not quite as old as that.
• 29:04
  And I think there's an art to that.
• 29:06
  And we've always been unafraid with Macallan to push the boundaries.
• 29:10
  This is maybe a controversial question or not, but at least I've always wanted to ask you. So, was there any push at that point to create a non-age statement?
• 29:18
  Because Macallan 18 was so-called running out, or there was not enough demand, sorry, not enough supply from Macallan 18.
• 29:26
  We got to put something on the shelf kind of came from.
• 29:30
  Ends of the telescope.
• 29:32
  Because it came from the end of there's some really, truly great whiskies in there.
• 29:37
  That maybe they didn't fit the conventions of standard age statements, and therefore we thought they should be given a chance to be enjoyed at their best. And absolutely, there was a view that the brand was pounding ahead, hugely successful.
• 29:50
  And we want to have the opportunity of finding ways to allow more consumers around the world to enjoy the brand. So it was this positive push, push-pull.
• 30:00
  But the thing I would say within it: I'm a whisky guy.
• 30:03
  You know, I love to drink. Great whiskies, and therefore, nothing Bob would ever allow to go out, nothing I would ever allow to go out.
• 30:13
  Would ever be anything less than fit for them to do.
• 30:17
  And you talked about, obviously, the consumer and how important that was.
• 30:21
  What did Macallan understand about?
• 30:24
  Collectors and super fans that other brands didn't.
• 30:28
  Let's fast forward to the late 2000 decade or getting into the 2010s, even where whisky was taking off. Macallan was definitely ahead of the pack already, but other brands could see this happening and they were not able to, in my opinion, capture that super fan and that. That dedication, you know, going back even 10 years, right?
• 30:49
  Full disclosure, we have an investment in whisky Hammer.
• 30:52
  You go back, not even 10 years, I think six out of 10 bottles at every auction was a Macallan, right? So there was something about the brand that captured people in a way that other brands couldn't.
• 31:04
  Well, let's kind of unpack how that came about.
• 31:07
  The first thing was.
• 31:08
  Um because brand.
• 31:12
  Has this very strong new make spirit, which is quite butyric.
• 31:16
  About the way it's actually put together.
• 31:19
  It was meant to be a racehorse that is capable of running a long way.
• 31:23
  It's not a short-term thing.
• 31:27
  The brand gets into its stride.
• 31:29
  You know, through time. And that's because the the extremely small onion shaped stills, it's because the strength and power of the distillation and whatever within that. It's able to withstand the power of the sherry cask and they walk.
• 31:41
  Together. So the first thing is, we kind of had liquid that was capable of being older. And and really delivering.
• 31:48
  Don't you you don't think other brands have that?
• 31:50
  No, some did, right? At the same time.
• 31:52
  Some did, some did, some didn't.
• 31:53
  And it's a funny thing, you know, in my opinion.
• 31:56
  It's only a personal opinion. But, you know, some brands can take a lot of wood, other brands collapse.
• 32:02
  Other brands of spirit really the balance between wood and spirit begins get lost and you end up chewing a piece of wood.
• 32:08
  So the brand, because the strong spirit still retained the spirit character, but it also was enhanced by the wood. So the first thing was the intrinsic nature of it.
• 32:15
  The second thing was the brand was really scarce.
• 32:18
  We didn't have a lot of supply.
• 32:20
  So we had to think: how do we use it creatively to produce expressions that people would love? And how do we therefore use that as a benchmark for?
• 32:29
  So we had to think: Uh connoisseurial whisky.
• 32:31
  So we had to think: So that was the second part. The third thing is we very deliberately cherished.
• 32:35
  So we had to think: Having the team resource with very capable people and a strong focus on rare whisky.
• 32:41
  So we had to think: The danger I think with some businesses is that the business can be so much about the core, the big brand, the standard SKUs, that this almost gets lost as a kind of afterthought.
• 32:52
  So we had to think: Because we love to have the dialogue with collectors and buyers, because we love to do creative things. This was a wonderful talking point.
• 33:00
  So we had to think: To tell the story about the brand, its beauty, its quality, whatever.
• 33:04
  So we had to think: So, those were some of the factors that made us different.
• 33:07
  So we had to think: And then the rest of it is really, as they say, in history, because with strong support from many whisky experts, with great retail supports and great bar support.
• 33:18
  So we had to think: People then discovered it, loved it.
• 33:23
  So we had to think: Forward to that.
• 33:24
  So we had to think: Grabbed it as much as they can collections wherever they could.
• 33:28
  So we had to think: And it's lighting a blue touch paper.
• 33:29
  So we had to think: All we did was light the blue touch paper.
• 33:31
  So we had to think: The firework went up in the air, and people loved the firework and the bottom.
• 33:34
  So we had to think: But do you think it was the communication, or it was just the brand strategy, or all of these things? Or obviously, you had so many partnerships from Bond to Masters of photography to Lalique.
• 33:47
  So we had to think: Do you think if you look back, do you think there was something that?
• 33:50
  So we had to think: Somehow grab people's attention more than others.
• 33:53
  So we had to think: Do you want the Bond story? Yes, of course.
• 33:56
  So we had to think: Okay, everyone wants a Bond story.
• 33:57
  So we had to think: Well, always a Bond story. Um I love photography, as you know.
• 34:01
  So we had to think: We did great work with Masters of photography.
• 34:03
  So we had to think: We also helped out the Royal photographic Society and I met an absolutely wonderful guy called Michael Wilson. Michael was in charge of Eon Productions.
• 34:12
  So we had to think: Cubby Broccoli's stepson, you know, his stepbrother two, Barbara Broccoli, lovely guy, lovely family. And they'd done an amazing job in that.
• 34:19
  So we had to think: So I was at Royal photographic Society awards, and I met Michael.
• 34:24
  So we had to think: And he likes whisky. So he said, you know what?
• 34:26
  So we had to think: Come around to my house tomorrow.
• 34:27
  So we had to think: He has one of the great photographic collections.
• 34:29
  So we had to think: So we went around, we talked about some pictures.
• 34:31
  So we had to think: I sent him some stuff.
• 34:34
  So we had to think: Um because I knew he liked whisky and so did Barbara.
• 34:36
  So we had to think: And she's very much a Macallan drinker and they were super nice people.
• 34:40
  So we had to think: So we talked, had a mutual liking and a couple of weeks later to Michael's secretary phoned me and said, would you speak to Michael?
• 34:47
  So we had to think: I would say, yeah, of course I'll speak to Michael.
• 34:50
  So we had to think: He phoned me and said, would you like me?
• 34:51
  So we had to think: Sorry, who is for the audience?
• 34:53
  So we had to think: Michael Michael Wilson, who owned Eon Productions.
• 34:58
  So we had to think: Yeah, just very much.
• 35:00
  So we had to think: So Michael said, look, Ken.
• 35:02
  So we had to think: Loved tapping it down, looking at my photographs, thank you for the whisky.
• 35:05
  So we had to think: Would you like Macallan in the Bond film?
• 35:08
  So we had to think: Just offered it. This was Skyfall.
• 35:10
  So we had to think: And I said, okay, so they came through with a bit of a script idea.
• 35:14
  So we had to think: And the script idea is, of course, it was, you know, 1962 whisky.
• 35:19
  So we had to think: It was Daniel Craig with Javier Bardem, does the William tell thing with Bérénice Marlohe.
• 35:26
  So we had to think: And went down, saw the shooting, we thought it was really really great.
• 35:30
  So we had to think: And it was fine. And then I was invited to the world premiere at the Royal Albert Hall, so I showed up there. And early in the movie, the Macallan is seen in a bar seat. And I thought that was nice, they've obviously not used it.
• 35:42
  So we had to think: Later on, this scene happened. I fell off my chair.
• 35:47
  So we had to think: Because Javier Bardem then says, I have your favourite Scotch from Macallan 1962, Mr Bond.
• 35:52
  So we had to think: And I think that was a great example of quality of the liquids. But also I think personally I loved going out, telling the stories, making connections, cutting deals and doing things that were different.
• 36:04
  So we had to think: We got half a billion dollars worth of PR in the first six months.
• 36:09
  So we had to think: Delighted. I've still got letters from Barbara and Michael thanking me for Macallan being involved in it. Thank you guys.
• 36:15
  So we had to think: And we did stuff that was different.
• 36:17
  So we had to think: So we kind of had an edge of creativity.
• 36:20
  So we had to think: We're on a roll and we love to do cool stuff.
• 36:23
  So we had to think: The brand is a very cool brand, the brand dances to its own beat, the brand is of supreme quality, the brand has a licence in its DNA to do things that are interesting. And that's just the stoke.
• 36:34
  So we had to think: And I think I'm going to simplify all of those things.
• 36:37
  So we had to think: I definitely agree with. And one of the most beautiful things about Macallan, it's easy to pronounce, especially in this part of the world, in Asia, right?
• 36:44
  So we had to think: Would Bruichladdich have made it to, you know, the Bond film?
• 36:48
  So we had to think: I don't know.
• 36:50
  So we had to think: Or our good friends, Bruichladdich or Bunnahabhain.
• 36:53
  So we had to think: I think there is something, and especially in Chinese culture, right?
• 36:56
  So we had to think: Macallan, it's relatively easy to say.
• 36:58
  So we had to think: Oh, no, you're hundred. You're 100% right.
• 37:01
  So we had to think: In a way that Lafite. You know, Lafite was the top you know, generally speaking, was the top Bordeaux wine that kind of took off above even the rest.
• 37:08
  So we had to think: I'm going back to 2007.
• 37:12
  So we had to think: There's a simplicity there that works.
• 37:14
  So we had to think: They were taking nothing away from everything else. We did this with a purpose, but we also recognised what was at the basis of the brand. And the basis of the brand was sherry cask where there's something to sherry cask malt. And we we owned the the kind of mind space for that.
• 37:29
  So we had to think: Bulletros were payless. We deliberately, because we didn't have a lot of it, set at a price that was fair and still is, but respects the fact it is very scarce.
• 37:38
  So we had to think: We stood on the shoulders of giants and celebrated our creative heritage.
• 37:42
  So we had to think: We were pronounceable. But we also really focused on the key cities in the world.
• 37:49
  So we had to think: Poor. We'd be able to enjoy and buying it from great liquor stores and great bars or you know, being able to access it there.
• 37:58
  So we had to think: And that was a core part. So the strategy was well wrought.
• 38:02
  So we had to think: Yeah, the Taiwans, the Hong Kongs, it kind of appreciated.
• 38:09
  So we had to think: The brahmas we need to fire. But it also was deliberate in trying to build on what was a great liquid. Absolutely.
• 38:16
  So we had to think: You know, we had a lot of people involved in it.
• 38:19
  So we had to think: You know, we worked very hard. We told the story to a lot of people, but the strategy is still very much about that storytelling.
• 38:27
  So we had to think: And there might be different channels now to do that.
• 38:30
  So we had to think: But it's still essentially that very, very personal.
• 38:33
  So we had to think: Passion. Commitment. Uh wish I've always told my kids to be interested and interesting. And it's still a little bit about that, hopefully the people you see today. And I wish them all the best of luck.
• 38:44
  So we had to think: You know, all our still cherishing the brand, still being good storytellers, still being engaging.
• 38:50
  So we had to think: Just loving the product. I think it's about the product at the end of the day, right? As we agree. So it's so funny because I had a long conversation with Bob Dalgarno about this and you know, it's kind of not good, better, best and whatever within it. It's whatever in the glass doesn't make you stop.
• 39:07
  So we had to think: Pause and think.
• 39:09
  So we had to think: And I've had so many great Macallans where I kind of go, oh my God, this is a privilege effectively communing with, you know, at times a piece of history.
• 39:18
  So we had to think: At other times I'm just enjoying the unctuous nature of the product, the nose, the flavour of the whole thing, but it makes you stop.
• 39:27
  So we had to think: Consider. And I think it makes you stop and consider ideally with a small group or with friends you're sharing with.
• 39:33
  So we had to think: And then that small piece of time gets etched in in the in the fabric of history in a way that you can remember the first time you had a forty year old something or the first time you tried a twenty one year old something and who you were with and where you were and the smells in the room because most people that I talk to at least whisky collectors now or let's say people who are whisky even fanatics, there was a whisky.
• 39:59
  So we had to think: They can actually go back to, I don't know if you've had this experience, they most people can tell me a single whisky, a single moment, a single group they were with that where their mind was blown and they go, oh, I didn't know that was possible.
• 40:10
  So we had to think: I didn't know this kind of flavour style or explosion was possible.
• 40:14
  So we had to think: It's kind of interesting because brands are not set in aspect.
• 40:19
  So we had to think: Brands have to evolve, they have to pivot, they have to move.
• 40:22
  So we had to think: It's a bit like in football. You've got to.
• 40:25
  So we had to think: Run to where the ball is going to be you didn't stand still and we realized that you know we'd produced something quite marvelous with the world's most precious whisky.
• 40:33
  So we had to think: We believed that then that we had to move on as the brand's fame grew, as more people accessed and whatever. And we kind of thought very deeply, and we spent two years. It sounds ridiculous to spend two years in one sentence.
• 40:45
  So we had to think: But you know, we did that.
• 40:47
  So we had to think: And I'll tell this story, I don't think anyone's ever told this story, but we said, okay we've got to evolve it, we've got to move it forward.
• 40:52
  So we had to think: What do we mean in naive?
• 40:54
  So we had to think: And we had a lot of walk with consumers and we thought deeply about where we were to get to. And there was one particular image and it was a photograph.
• 41:03
  So we had to think: Just encapsulated it, and I can see it now.
• 41:05
  So we had to think: It was with Annie Leibovitz, and I worked with Annie, she's a wonderful person, great photographer. And it was a shot of her standing on the gargoyle on the Chrysler building in new York. And she's reaching back for a camera bag from her assistant. And you're going, this is nuts, because you're a very famous person, you don't need to do it, but you're committed enough to go without a safety harness onto the end of this to take a picture.
• 41:27
  So we had to think: And that resonated with everybody.
• 41:29
  So we had to think: And we came up with a very simple sentence, which is with Macallan, you can live a life beyond ordinary.
• 41:35
  So we had to think: And that's where the people are funnier, the memories are greater, everything's in more in full colour. And it is these really, really precious moments that some of the brand are. And that was kind of a bit of a guiding star for us because we really appreciate and love our drinkers.
• 41:50
  So we had to think: We want them to have a super time, want to be.
• 41:53
  So we had to think: The fulcrum or the catalyst for things that are special and interesting in them.
• 41:59
  So we had to think: When my eldest daughter was married, we did a Macallan miniature.
• 42:02
  So we had to think: And yeah, that was.
• 42:05
  So we had to think: And a one of one and you know, she's only getting you know married once obviously and that was you know, you you encapsulated that moment, right, with something very special. You know, at times when you're my family are very special times with great friends.
• 42:18
  So we had to think: Macallan was very much a part of that and at the heart of it.
• 42:21
  So we had to think: And so I think within that you've got to appreciate that.
• 42:24
  So we had to think: And the interesting thing is, although some of the channels we have now are different, whether you have much more prevalent social media, it was much more PR-led.
• 42:33
  So we had to think: We didn't have huge budgets, and we effectively said we've got to tell the story.
• 42:37
  So we had to think: In the days, it would have been press, and we worked very, very hard.
• 42:40
  So we had to think: But it's still storytelling, but it's storytelling.
• 42:43
  So we had to think: And now, I guess the things that have changed are maybe the channels, but it's not the strategy, is this intimacy.
• 42:49
  So we had to think: About sitting with somebody telling a story about how great it is, how it came about, some of the war stories.
• 42:55
  So we had to think: Freeballing and the creativity.
• 42:56
  So we had to think: But whereas before it would have been with key publications, you know, key stories, key images. Now it can also be with movies.
• 43:05
  So we had to think: I mean I was lucky enough to work with our good friends at Suntory.
• 43:08
  So we had to think: I did the Willem Dafoe Laphroaig.
• 43:10
  So we had to think: Project last year with my partner's Suntory, and he was a lovely guy.
• 43:15
  So we had to think: And we had something very natural in the idiom of that brand that's been a huge success.
• 43:20
  So we had to think: So you you take this idea of telling a well-wrought story that's interesting, relevant. Um appropriate, probably as people at the heart, and it's quite distinctive.
• 43:32
  So we had to think: And then you just freeball with people to do that.
• 43:35
  So we had to think: And it's as if we're sitting here together, which we are just having a dram, telling some stories. That's still a really important part of it.
• 43:43
  So we had to think: You know, um I'm still not photography in my.
• 43:48
  So we had to think: Massive Leica fan, and whenever people see my camera in the street and we talk about it, it's that thing. It's a communion. It's a connection.
• 43:55
  So we had to think: It's a sharing connection.
• 43:58
  So we had to think: And I think that's truly important.
• 44:00
  So we had to think: Absolutely. Well, let's move on to on that note, whisky number three.
• 44:04
  So we had to think: Hey guys, Rickesh here, the Whisky Chief.
• 44:06
  So we had to think: If you made it this far in the episode, firstly, thank you so much.
• 44:09
  So we had to think: As you know, it takes a lot to put on these kinds of episodes.
• 44:11
  So we had to think: So if you can like and subscribe below, it really helps us bring the best whiskies to you and keep doing this show the best we can.
• 44:18
  So we had to think: Thanks.
• 44:19
  So we had to think: So this was made by a mutual, very good friend of ours, David Robertson, who was Master Distiller at Macallan for many years and was part of the fine and rare project with you. David and another good mutual friend of ours, Andy Simpson, back in 2020 actually, right before COVID, visited Borders distillery, did some contract distilling, and their aim was to create a Speyside.
• 44:43
  So we had to think: Macallan-style.
• 44:45
  So we had to think: Cherried whisky. So we're trying it today.
• 44:47
  So we had to think: We're six years in. This is at 62%.
• 44:51
  So we had to think: ABV. So let's factor that in. The goal was using Golden Promise barley, using Miguel Martín sherry casks, and just to see.
• 45:02
  So we had to think: What could be created, recreated maybe in some way.
• 45:05
  So we had to think: So, this is to be clear, not Macallan in any way.
• 45:08
  So we had to think: Nobody's saying it's Macallan. I think it's meant to be a, let's say, typical sherry style whisky, and that's it. It's not a Borders and it's not a Macallan for legal reasons. I just want to say that.
• 45:19
  So we had to think: So, nobody's saying that. Yeah, and I think it's kind of interesting because.
• 45:24
  So we had to think: It is a cousin.
• 45:26
  So we had to think: You know, there's in the family tree.
• 45:27
  So we had to think: Yeah, there's a DNA there. It's not a son, it's not a daughter, it's kind of a cousin. Um what would I say about it?
• 45:33
  So we had to think: And then I was I had never encountered this whisky before, so it's perhaps a little bit brighter.
• 45:39
  So we had to think: They would normally see so it's a little bit shinier, it's a little more orangey.
• 45:43
  So we had to think: Than I would say the typical Macallan.
• 45:45
  So we had to think: So the noise to me.
• 45:49
  So we had to think: It's kind of carrying some sherry elements, but it's not Macallan.
• 45:53
  So we had to think: You're getting some of the dried fruit.
• 45:54
  So we had to think: But it's interesting. I'm getting some of the character.
• 45:56
  So we had to think: I begin to get..
• 45:58
  So we had to think: Ginger, cinnamon. Um some of the some of the sherry grapiness coming through, a little bit of tannin.
• 46:06
  So we had to think: Now, the two things, obviously, it's quite high strength, it's 62.3, but also it's still relatively young in its journey.
• 46:12
  So we had to think: 100%. I think it's a really interesting homage.
• 46:16
  So we had to think: I think it is a very good addition to the family tree.
• 46:20
  So we had to think: You know, David and Andy are super guys and both very skilled at what they do.
• 46:23
  So we had to think: I think it's a decent whisky.
• 46:23
  So we had to think: I would give this about.
• 46:26
  So we had to think: 6.5. Yeah. So it's, I'd love to notice this again when it perhaps is further on its journey. And I'm sure that we'd be getting up to the sevens, eights, and whatever.
• 46:35
  So we had to think: I think it's very decent whisky.
• 46:37
  So we had to think: It's not Macallan. It never was meant to be.
• 46:38
  So we had to think: No, never meant to be. But it is inspired by the style.
• 46:42
  So we had to think: I think that's the way I always say it.
• 46:43
  So we had to think: It's inspired. It's in the family tree.
• 46:45
  So we had to think: And I think what's interesting about it is it is approachable now.
• 46:48
  So we had to think: I think if we had watered it down and we diluted it to, let's say, 43%, even 45%.
• 46:54
  So we had to think: It's very drinkable as a six-year-old single malt whisky.
• 46:59
  So we had to think: I agree with you. What will this be at 10, 12?
• 47:03
  So we had to think: 15, 18, I think it's gonna really mellow out.
• 47:06
  So we had to think: I think it's gonna be. I think it'll be very interesting.
• 47:08
  So we had to think: And the thing I'll go back to before, despite the fact I've launched some of the oldest whiskies in the industry, we've set some world record prices.
• 47:14
  So we had to think: I think we've sent two or three world records along the way.
• 47:18
  So we had to think: Um I still think it's a boke was in the glass.
• 47:20
  So we had to think: At the end of my whisky going.
• 47:22
  So we had to think: I drink whisky every week. My wife has probably got an even better nose than me.
• 47:26
  So we had to think: We drink together. And there's something that's a joy about exploring, celebrating, whatever. So I applaud the audacity of what's been done here.
• 47:35
  So we had to think: I love the homage. And you judge it the way it is.
• 47:38
  So we had to think: I think we're looking at something and trying to anticipate where it will be.
• 47:42
  So we had to think: As much as what it is now.
• 47:42
  So we had to think: Yeah, I agree with that.
• 47:44
  So we had to think: And I think it's great to just appreciate what can be done now.
• 47:50
  So we had to think: In a different way, right? In a completely different way.
• 47:52
  So we had to think: I think there's kind of a category of responsibility and incumbency in Macallan.
• 47:56
  So we had to think: Um the great iconic brand it is. There's a bit of a responsibility for the industry, the segment, to champion.
• 48:04
  So we had to think: Quality to inspire other people.
• 48:06
  So we had to think: And I think there's a lot of great distilleries now, and I think there's some really cool projects. And I want nothing but seeing the success ongoing of all types of whisky, Scotch whisky, new disruptive styles of whisky to come in and provide an experience in the glass that excites, thrills, causes debate because that's kind of what it's about, isn't it?
• 48:28
  So we had to think: Let's delve into that. So we were lucky enough before we started the podcast to try some very, very interesting Copenhagen Danish whisky, which is a company you're involved with. Tell us a little bit more about that and why you're involved.
• 48:41
  So we had to think: Well, it's kind of interesting because to me, it's about what's in the glass, but it's also about the people.
• 48:47
  So we had to think: My macanum is very stronger than that.
• 48:48
  So we had to think: I'll number my clients my little business giving specialist advice.
• 48:53
  So we had to think: I like that. And, um, my son-in-law Joel Harrison, the whisky writer and brand consultant just two major drinks trading awards this year from Fortnum & Mason house great Icons, which is great.
• 49:06
  So we had to think: I'm very proud of him.
• 49:06
  So we had to think: And also, my daughter is.
• 49:08
  So we had to think: A very well-renowned travel writer.
• 49:10
  So we had to think: In Gourmand.
• 49:12
  So we had to think: They kind of introduced me. They've been out to see the guys at Copenhagen.
• 49:15
  So we had to think: They say these are really cool people.
• 49:16
  So we had to think: They're smart people, nice people.
• 49:19
  So we had to think: And I think they're very much about disruption with a purpose.
• 49:22
  So we had to think: I look back to the gastronomy of Denmark, you know, great restaurants like Noma, like Geranium, like the Alchemist over there.
• 49:31
  So we had to think: And it is about this innovative, disruptive search.
• 49:35
  So we had to think: And it is disruption with a purpose.
• 49:37
  So we had to think: It is back to flavour.
• 49:37
  So we had to think: It's back to enjoyment.
• 49:40
  So we had to think: It's back to saying in this particular instance there is perhaps more freedom.
• 49:46
  So we had to think: Explore in certain dimensions in the process, in the wood.
• 49:49
  So we had to think: So you're talking about the Scotch whisky laws, of course, and what you're allowed to do and not do to be called Scotch whisky.
• 49:56
  So we had to think: Which have a great purpose because the Scotch whisky Act is a great thing in many ways because it maintains the consistency and quality of what is a fantastic product category. But nonetheless, this gives the very, very talented Master Distiller Lasse. The really looks so bringing together art, the craft of putting the best ingredients together, but interestingly enough, the scientific precision from his.
• 50:24
  So we had to think: Previous life. To produce whiskies that I think personally are absolutely delicious.
• 50:30
  So we had to think: So R.
• 50:31
  So we had to think: Incredible spectrum of flavour that really begins to stimulate your mind.
• 50:36
  So we had to think: And it's doing things that are different to perhaps some of the more traditional categories. So I was intrigued by the excellent quality of the liquid.
• 50:46
  So we had to think: The spectrum of flavours that come out there and interest enough to have a friendship relationship with the guys.
• 50:53
  So we had to think: Well, we've been out in Hong Kong this week.
• 50:55
  So we had to think: Lasse and I doing a master class together.
• 50:57
  So we had to think: And it's really interesting because I love whisky.
• 51:01
  So we had to think: I love great product in the glass.
• 51:04
  So we had to think: I love to see that Damascus Road moment where people get it.
• 51:08
  So we had to think: And I think it's great to see that.
• 51:09
  So we had to think: So kind of a little bit of this podcast has been about how we took a moment in time, how we celebrated something amazing and made it into a legend. And I'm very privileged and proud of helping that process.
• 51:22
  So we had to think: I kind of think I've written my chapter in the book of Macallan.
• 51:25
  So we had to think: You definitely have. But now it's kind of good to see as well, to share, to encourage, and some thinking that perhaps it's just different.
• 51:32
  So we had to think: Agreed. And I think talking about different, what's your perspective today?
• 51:36
  So we had to think: Obviously, you had an amazing career, and we 100%, I think, everyone listening would agree you've more than made your mark on the Macallan.
• 51:44
  So we had to think: And we thank you for that. If you were looking at, you know, not this specific Danish brand, but if you're looking at a new whisky brand today, what do you think are some of the priorities that would be important in the 2026 world?
• 52:00
  So we had to think: Well, how has the world evolved and different from a branding point of view, from a creative point of view?
• 52:06
  So we had to think: We touched on, you know, some obviously mediums have changed.
• 52:11
  So we had to think: What else would you say are your priorities for starting a new brand today?
• 52:14
  So we had to think: I think it's a really interesting time.
• 52:16
  So we had to think: Because obviously the geopolitical situation that we experience at the moment is its challenges and its opportunities.
• 52:24
  So we had to think: I think there's also a focus to some extent on affordability.
• 52:28
  So we had to think: People, you need to have great value.
• 52:30
  So we had to think: I'm not saying price. It's about something that is product you will cherish and enjoy that's priced appropriately there.
• 52:39
  So we had to think: So I think that's interesting. I think there has been such a growth.
• 52:44
  So we had to think: In interesting distillation, not only within Scotland, but around the world.
• 52:48
  So we had to think: There's a lot more choice out there.
• 52:50
  So we had to think: I do think, within that, now, what would I say?
• 52:53
  So we had to think: I've kind of learned five things in the last eight years.
• 52:56
  So we had to think: Let me share the five things. The first thing is, I do think it's important to have a compelling, interesting, authentic narrative because you've got to know what you are. Is all great brands have a view.
• 53:08
  So we had to think: They have a view on what they set out to do.
• 53:09
  So we had to think: They have a view and makes them different.
• 53:11
  So we had to think: And I think it's really important to have a perspective.
• 53:15
  So we had to think: I think the saying is and I've said this before and I'll repeat it.
• 53:18
  So we had to think: And thanks to Bob Dalgarno for this because it is about what's in the glass.
• 53:22
  So we had to think: It's easy to get someone to look at it, to know it for the first time.
• 53:26
  So we had to think: The really important thing is to get someone to want to do it again.
• 53:29
  So we had to think: To want to recommend it to friends, to want to share it in those really important and special occasions when. You know, whisky is the the fulcrum of discussion.
• 53:39
  So we had to think: So you gotta have something that walks in the glass. The third thing I think within that is it's about being distinctive.
• 53:45
  So we had to think: You gotta be confident.
• 53:47
  So we had to think: We always did this at Macallan.
• 53:49
  So we had to think: We had our own style.
• 53:51
  So we had to think: You know, I had a panache. You know, we had a style, we had a perspective that was born out of what we thought was interesting and right.
• 54:01
  So we had to think: Um to engage people. So I think that's important.
• 54:03
  So we had to think: I think it is interesting I still talk slightly of the power of perversity because kind of if a lot of these things are quite precious, quite small, not able to be got hold of, just the joy of snagging a bottle.
• 54:17
  So we had to think: You know, I bought my Laphroaig Willem Dafoe bottle last week whenever I was in the ballot and I got one. I thought, great, I was involved in it.
• 54:23
  So we had to think: Happy super. Wait, did you even get one?
• 54:25
  So we had to think: You had to ballot for this?
• 54:27
  So we had to think: You know, at the end of the day, I'm just Joe Schmo.
• 54:30
  So we had to think: You know, I buy my way skill like everybody else.
• 54:32
  So we had to think: And I think it's good when you have that feeling of being able to get hold of something. You know, we are a very odd.
• 54:40
  So we had to think: Whisky was fascinating. They ended up being bottled uh through an independent as old Perth.
• 54:47
  So we had to think: Which are kind of Macallan.
• 54:49
  So we had to think: Park thing. And I was able to snag one of the last bottles for that.
• 54:52
  So we had to think: And I've opened it and poured it.
• 54:54
  So we had to think: So there's kind of this bit of it as well.
• 54:56
  So we had to think: So it's not only the narrative, it's not only what's in the glass.
• 54:59
  So we had to think: It's a little bit about not everybody can always get hold of it.
• 55:02
  So we had to think: But then I think it is about you being distinctive and confident, about your tone of voice, what you are.
• 55:08
  So we had to think: I think very often brands should be inside out.
• 55:11
  So we had to think: Not xenophobic and not inward looking, but be confident about knowing what they are and putting their stall out. Because you know what?
• 55:19
  So we had to think: We all have views. You will like whiskies that I want.
• 55:21
  So we had to think: I'll like whiskies that you want.
• 55:23
  So we had to think: So everyone's palates different.
• 55:24
  So we had to think: And the final thing about it, I think, is.
• 55:27
  So we had to think: Remember that this, and I'm going to use a horrible word here, it's kind of experiential. And I mean that it's.
• 55:33
  So we had to think: Sometimes you want to sit down, have a toot when you're on your own and just chill out and relax and enjoy. Other times you want to be with some close friends and go, Jim, I've got someone really interesting.
• 55:42
  So we had to think: What do you think? And other times you want to be out.
• 55:45
  So we had to think: You want to be with people, you want to share that.
• 55:48
  So we had to think: So I think the experience of it.
• 55:50
  So we had to think: So that's kind of what I've learned.
• 55:53
  So we had to think: The way we tell the story, because it is about storytelling.
• 55:56
  So we had to think: The way we give great liquids that people are going to prize and enjoy, that really doesn't change.
• 56:02
  So we had to think: But the way and the ability we can do that globally now.
• 56:05
  So we had to think: Has changed. I think it's a great thing.
• 56:08
  So we had to think: Scotch whisky has been very good to me.
• 56:11
  So we had to think: Macallan has been great to me. It's been a privilege and a joy.
• 56:17
  So we had to think: Every moment to be involved and touch that band.
• 56:19
  So we had to think: It is a privilege and joy now to work with other.
• 56:22
  So we had to think: People's whiskies, other people's spirits, other people's brands.
• 56:26
  So we had to think: And I think what I would say within there is.
• 56:28
  So we had to think: Explore enjoy. Keep an open mind, work out what you like, celebrate with your friends.
• 56:35
  So we had to think: Have fun because at the end of the day, it's a fun.
• 56:37
  So we had to think: That's what it's all about. And I think the big thing that I notice, at least in whisky drinkers versus other alcohol or other spirits, is people do like to share, do like to try new things, and they're open to that.
• 56:48
  So we had to think: And that's one of the beauties of our industry.
• 56:51
  So we had to think: So, on that note, I can't remember if I ranked the or scored the six.
• 56:57
  So we had to think: No, you didn't, you didn't score six.
• 56:59
  So we had to think: I gave it six point five. What do you think?
• 57:01
  So we had to think: I'm gonna go with 6.8. I think there's a strong potential there, and maybe I'm a little bit biased because I know the guys that.
• 57:09
  So we had to think: Did it right? But I think this is going to be something.
• 57:12
  So we had to think: I think it's going to be something pretty interesting. You've chosen wisely, Rickesh.
• 57:16
  So we had to think: I'm interested in the journey.
• 57:16
  So we had to think: And it's all about the journey.
• 57:19
  So we had to think: I mean, owning a cask is not about waiting 18 years to the or 20 years or whatever to bottle it. It's about seeing that evolution, right?
• 57:28
  So we had to think: And enjoying that evolution. So I like for something like this, which I've followed since 2020, it's hard for me to describe to you how different that whisky is than.
• 57:38
  So we had to think: Two years ago, four years ago, five years ago, because this is like a little baby growing up. And I do have a six-year-old actually.
• 57:44
  So we had to think: So this is. In in line with that and it's a lovely thing to see this this ev evolution of this beautiful whisky.
• 57:59
  So we had to think: Gonna end with a Springbank 1996.
• 58:03
  So we had to think: This is in a sherry butt, turning 30 years old later this year.
• 58:07
  So we had to think: This is one of our casks that we've drawn a sample from, actually very fresh sample from, 53.3% ABV. This has been in its sherry cask, I think, most of its life actually, which is quite rare for Springbank, as you know, always in bourbon traditionally.
• 58:24
  So we had to think: Yeah, the thing the thing about this in a sherry cask. The thing is interesting, I do admire the Springbank people.
• 58:31
  So we had to think: I was actually in Campbeltown earlier this year and I'd never been Springbank, so I'm sort of going to swing by.
• 58:36
  So we had to think: And the passion they have, the extreme craft they have.
• 58:40
  So we had to think: Yeah.
• 58:41
  So we had to think: Attitude in terms of we just want to make stuff we like that's great.
• 58:44
  So we had to think: I think would you say they have a cult following?
• 58:47
  So we had to think: That's what I would say. Would you sure?
• 58:49
  So we had to think: Yeah. I mean, I think you're now finding the only tragedy I think in it is that very often products go straight to the auction market.
• 58:55
  So we had to think: Yeah. You know, and it's difficult to buy.
• 58:57
  So we had to think: It's the ballot system. It's you know, it's difficult.
• 58:59
  So we had to think: The liquid's great. And again, it's what I would describe as a very traditional whisky. The thing that's interesting for me.
• 59:05
  So we had to think: To be controversial because not everybody likes this, it has what we call a struck match note.
• 59:11
  So we had to think: Because sometimes when you get this slightly sulfurous struck match, there is a little bit of sulfur. I love that because to me, it gives it energy.
• 59:16
  So we had to think: I know certain people hate it. Andy hates it.
• 59:19
  So we had to think: Our good friend Andy Simpson, I think, is it.
• 59:21
  So we had to think: Jim Murray doesn't like it, you know.
• 59:23
  So we had to think: I know that and big debates over the years, but I like it.
• 59:26
  So we had to think: I think it gives a little bit of edge, a little bit of vibrancy, a little bit of dynamism to it. So I really like that coming in.
• 59:32
  So we had to think: So it is sherry, but it's sherry in a quite feisty way, which is good.
• 59:36
  So we had to think: Um, I think the spirit is heavy, traditional.
• 59:39
  So we had to think: Um I think it's an excellent product.
• 59:41
  So we had to think: I would be d to be really controversial, you want me to be controversial to please.
• 59:45
  So we had to think: Let's do it. That's a solid night.
• 59:47
  So we had to think: Wow. Okay. So, this is your this.
• 59:49
  So we had to think: We found this to me. We found Ken's style of whisky.
• 59:52
  So we had to think: Okay. No, listen, I love all the Macallans that we've had earlier, and that Glen Fraser is always one of my go-to.
• 59:57
  So we had to think: I haven't tasted this Springbank and sherry before.
• 1:00:00
  So we had to think: That's a keeper. I want to buy a bottle of this.
• 1:00:02
  So we had to think: Well, this is absolutely bad. This is one of one, and I will happily send you a bottle, Ken, just for coming here and taking the time with me.
• 1:00:09
  So we had to think: I'm lucky enough to still own that cask.
• 1:00:11
  So we had to think: So the one thing I can do is definitely send you a business.
• 1:00:13
  So we had to think: I would love that, Rickesh. It's a fine.
• 1:00:15
  So we had to think: If you scored it a nine, yeah, I would agree.
• 1:00:17
  So we had to think: I'm going to go with nine as well.
• 1:00:19
  So we had to think: For me, this is.
• 1:00:21
  So we had to think: Well structured. It's the structure, and for me, it's the lingering.
• 1:00:25
  So we had to think: I like to for me, it's a whisky 30 seconds, 45 seconds after I've had that sip.
• 1:00:30
  So we had to think: Can I recall the flavour?
• 1:00:30
  So we had to think: Is it still happening?
• 1:00:34
  So we had to think: It's really interesting. You know, I'm a big Bowmore fan, you know, big Balvenie fan, you're but lot of stuff, you know. I love Potine and it's, it's, it's, it's, it's case.
• 1:00:43
  So we had to think: So I like really good whiskies, but there's something about this which is about the structure and the laying.
• 1:00:50
  So we had to think: Because how do you create that?
• 1:00:52
  So we had to think: What do you know about creating structural minds just some sort of hack marketing guy?
• 1:00:58
  So we had to think: But you know, within that, you know, what I would say, I think you've got to have.
• 1:01:03
  So we had to think: Great ingredients.
• 1:01:05
  So we had to think: Gotta be retentive about the craft and the purpose.
• 1:01:09
  So we had to think: You've got to have good people that feel the soul of this.
• 1:01:12
  So we had to think: And then you gotta be patient.
• 1:01:15
  So we had to think: Everything today in life, you know, is rush, rush, bustle.
• 1:01:19
  So we had to think: Instant gratification. Yeah, the thing about this is intrinsically, you know, there is still an element of time.
• 1:01:27
  So we had to think: Yeah.
• 1:01:28
  So we had to think: Resting in the right warehouse.
• 1:01:31
  So we had to think: Would um just waiting and times good things come to those people who wait.
• 1:01:38
  So we had to think: And the thing that's interesting about this.
• 1:01:40
  So we had to think: Is that I can see the intent in this whisky.
• 1:01:43
  So we had to think: It is an appreciation in the right way of a lot of the crafts school.
• 1:01:48
  So we had to think: Uh that's made in whisky. It is about we're gonna do our way.
• 1:01:52
  So we had to think: It is slightly slightly edgy because I wouldn't have anticipated normally Springbanks.
• 1:01:57
  So we had to think: I've had to play. It's not a typical Springbank in any way.
• 1:02:00
  So we had to think: And I like that. I like the fact that they've had the confidence to play.
• 1:02:04
  So we had to think: To appreciate with the sherry cask here.
• 1:02:07
  So we had to think: I think the balance point is really good.
• 1:02:10
  So we had to think: Because the cask does not overcome the intrinsic nature of the spirit.
• 1:02:14
  So we had to think: But the biggest comment I would say, as well as the skill that's gone into creating this structure.
• 1:02:20
  So we had to think: I think it's the layering that's interesting.
• 1:02:22
  So we had to think: Yeah, I agree. I think there's something there where I can appreciate in a number of different dimensions from.
• 1:02:28
  So we had to think: Quite vibrant nose.
• 1:02:31
  So we had to think: To um body and the layer. The thing that actually strikes me most about it is it has got an extraordinarily long finish.
• 1:02:38
  So we had to think: That's what's hitting me. I'm still able to.
• 1:02:40
  So we had to think: And I'm going to be in that aircraft later.
• 1:02:42
  So we had to think: I'm still going to be exposed. We'll send you a little flask with your for the flight.
• 1:02:50
  So we had to think: What are you allowed to take? 20 ml?
• 1:02:51
  So we had to think: We'll get you a 20 ml. That would walk up a little two to that and I'll sleep like a baby, drooling and snorting. But I think the great thing about it, again, it.
• 1:03:01
  So we had to think: Shows me how I fell in love with Scotch whisky in the first place.
• 1:03:06
  So we had to think: Kind of fell in love with Scotch whisky through Macallan.
• 1:03:09
  So we had to think: And I kind of think, oddly enough, you probably remember this was Gran Reserva.
• 1:03:14
  So we had to think: Lovely whisky. Which was phenomenal.
• 1:03:16
  So we had to think: And I wish I'd known what I knew then because, you know, you should have bought all the Gran Reservas. Well, the funny thing about it was I bought a bottle of Gran Reserva then and do you know what I drank it.
• 1:03:24
  So we had to think: And for a couple hundred quid or less, probably.
• 1:03:27
  So we had to think: Oh, no, it's less. And the thing about it was.
• 1:03:30
  So we had to think: The box then became the pencil case for my kids' colouring crayons.
• 1:03:34
  So we had to think: And um God, I wish I kept it now. But but I'm allowed to tell a sort of indiscreet story about my mother-in-law.
• 1:03:42
  So we had to think: Please. When the kids are sitting there.
• 1:03:43
  So we had to think: Your wife probably won't see this, so you're fine.
• 1:03:45
  So we had to think: Yeah, I'd uh tell you apologize for this, but um we were away for a weekend. My mother-in-law babysat the kids and I of course did all what good people do in life for a bottle of famous Grouse.
• 1:03:55
  So we had to think: And I came back and the bottle was untouched.
• 1:03:59
  So we had to think: Oh my god, she's sick. What's wrong?
• 1:04:01
  So we had to think: What's happening? And then I observed something else.
• 1:04:04
  So we had to think: She went. That was nice, but I found something else.
• 1:04:07
  So we had to think: So.
• 1:04:09
  So we had to think: Found this one in a blue box. Oh no.
• 1:04:12
  So we had to think: It was it was Macallan. 30 year olds.
• 1:04:14
  So we had to think: Macallan 30.
• 1:04:16
  So we had to think: And she had wonderfully drunk. Nine tenths of my bottle of Macallan thirty, and I thought, oh. Yes, this is the power of the brand.
• 1:04:27
  So we had to think: How wonderful that was.
• 1:04:27
  So we had to think: And I was so happy.
• 1:04:32
  So we had to think: Yes, of course. With celebrations.
• 1:04:35
  So we had to think: So to me, I think you've stretched my mind as you always do, Rickesh.
• 1:04:39
  So we had to think: You've shown me new things. We've discovered some old friends.
• 1:04:44
  So we had to think: I hope some of the story's been interesting.
• 1:04:46
  So we had to think: I want to ask you something. Sure.
• 1:04:48
  So we had to think: If there's one question you want to ask somebody from the Macallan who never could, what would it be?
• 1:04:54
  So we had to think: Do I get to ask it to you? You got to ask it tomorrow, yeah.
• 1:04:57
  So we had to think: Well, what's the uh what's the one thing?
• 1:05:03
  So we had to think: You really regret that you you shouldn't have done.
• 1:05:07
  So we had to think: There was the thing that somebody let you do it in the creativity of the moment and the whatever and the budgets and all of that. And you look back and go, yeah, we probably shouldn't have done that.
• 1:05:19
  So we had to think: Looking back now, with retrospect, not out of any disrespect, but completely in retrospect, which is what life is about.
• 1:05:26
  So we had to think: You go, if you could go back in time, I'll rephrase it.
• 1:05:29
  So we had to think: If you go back in time over that 20 years, one thing.
• 1:05:32
  So we had to think: You would not have done that you did.
• 1:05:35
  So we had to think: It's a good job they can't fire me, because I'm gonna have to answer your question, haven't I? The one thing I wouldn't have done is do Macallan gold.
• 1:05:41
  So we had to think: Why? Because we did a non-age range, and actually, and the funny thing about it was we did. Gold, Amber, Sienna, Ruby.
• 1:05:49
  So we had to think: And gold was superb.
• 1:05:49
  So we had to think: Sienna was outstanding.
• 1:05:52
  So we had to think: I still got a bottle. Ruby was beyond it.
• 1:05:54
  So we had to think: Ruby is one of my favourite things.
• 1:05:55
  So we had to think: And the lovely thing about it was some of our competitors who actually work with now, lovely people, described it as Ken Grier's Stripper Series.
• 1:06:02
  So we had to think: You know, a gold, Amber, Ruby. And gold to me.
• 1:06:05
  So we had to think: I shouldn't have allowed that to go out.
• 1:06:07
  So we had to think: Because I didn't think it met my personal flavour profile.
• 1:06:13
  So we had to think: So you asked me, I'm gonna tell you.
• 1:06:14
  So we had to think: Thank you for being please don't fire me, I don't work for you anymore.
• 1:06:18
  So we had to think: I'll I'll end on one last question from my side.
• 1:06:21
  So we had to think: What's one thing you learned from Macallan that for let's say the founders or the marketers listening to this podcast today, spirits or or non?
• 1:06:30
  So we had to think: What's the one thing you would steal?
• 1:06:32
  So we had to think: From the Macallan playbook, the Macallan storybook, that you'd give as a piece of advice to the founders of marketers who are listening right now.
• 1:06:41
  So we had to think: Well it it's not actually kind of a Macallan thing.
• 1:06:43
  So we had to think: I'm gonna give you a quote. And a kind of really good book that I enjoyed was Walter Isaacson's book on Steve Jobs. And this is going to sound really, really contrarian.
• 1:06:52
  So we had to think: But Steve Jobs famously said the consumer knows nothing.
• 1:06:55
  So we had to think: You should understand.
• 1:06:58
  So we had to think: Consumer in great depth.
• 1:06:58
  So we had to think: You should value them.
• 1:07:01
  So we had to think: You should try and give great products that they enjoy.
• 1:07:04
  So we had to think: But the interesting thing that Jobs did was, and I think particularly the part about Gorilla glass, about having a phone that didn't have a bezel, that was really important because he had a vision.
• 1:07:12
  So we had to think: And I think what I would say is.
• 1:07:15
  So we had to think: Kind of starts with a narrative.
• 1:07:17
  So we had to think: Got to have a vision in your mind about what you want to do.
• 1:07:20
  So we had to think: And actually, you know more about your whisky and what you're trying to do than anybody else. So be true to your principles.
• 1:07:28
  So we had to think: You know, look at the five things I said earlier, not going to repeat them.
• 1:07:31
  So we had to think: But basically within that, you've got to have something that makes people stop and think in the glass. And it's got to be true to you.
• 1:07:37
  So we had to think: It's got to be authentic.
• 1:07:37
  So we had to think: Don't pander to other people.
• 1:07:40
  So we had to think: Don't think about a price point or a style or a pack or whatever.
• 1:07:44
  So we had to think: Yeah.
• 1:07:46
  So we had to think: I think they call it flow.
• 1:07:47
  So we had to think: Do what comes from your heart.
• 1:07:51
  So we had to think: Do what is in your soul. Do you do something you're proud of?
• 1:07:56
  So we had to think: I was incredibly grateful, and I still love the Macallan and then still praise it and will always support it. I was lucky to be part of a continuum, to write a chapter and what I hope will be a long-standing and interesting book.
• 1:08:11
  So we had to think: The brand was very good to me.
• 1:08:11
  So we had to think: I hope I was good to the brand.
• 1:08:15
  So we had to think: And I think be true to your principles.
• 1:08:17
  So we had to think: The one thing I would say is work out your story.
• 1:08:21
  So we had to think: And stick to.
• 1:08:22
  So we had to think: Great advice. And we thank you so much for your time.
• 1:08:25
  So we had to think: And we thank you for the amazing stories.
• 1:08:27
  So we had to think: I've learned a lot, as I always do, hanging out with the legendary Ken Grier and the stories of not only Macallan, but your journey, brand, be authentic.
• 1:08:38
  So we had to think: I think at the end of the day, is the most important thing.
• 1:08:41
  So we had to think: And to look at the brand partnerships and to look at how consumers reacted to that.
• 1:08:46
  So we had to think: I loved everything, maybe the whiskies, even more than I usually do, because I handpicked these for. Our special occasion, and thank you so much for your time.
• 1:08:57
  So we had to think: I really, really appreciate it.
• 1:08:59
  So we had to think: As always, the whisky is never done, neither is the conversation.
• 1:09:03
  So we had to think: And I say slàinte to my very good friend Ken.
• 1:09:06
  So we had to think: Cheers. Rickesh, thank you, and I hope you've enjoyed it.
• 1:09:11
  So we had to think: Drink whisky. That's it. Hey guys, Rickesh here, the Whisky Chief.
• 1:09:14
  So we had to think: Firstly, thanks so much for watching this episode.
• 1:09:17
  So we had to think: It really means a lot to us. If you can like and subscribe below, it just really helps us to keep bringing you the best whiskies in the world.
• 1:09:24
  So we had to think: Slàinte, and I'll talk to you soon.