Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Poppy Lister (Part 1 - Poppy Discusses Her Music) | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #104 |

Transcript

Poppy Lister (Part 1 - Poppy Discusses Her Music) | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #104 | · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian Reef
• 0:04
  podcast. Today's guest is a musician and
• 0:06
  writer all the way from the UK, or say, all the way we're on the
• 0:10
  same II. Think I'm just used to saying
• 0:12
  that because I get so many International guests.
• 0:14
  She's all the way from South friend on.
• 0:16
  See, a name is Poppy Lista. Welcome to the show.
• 0:18
  How's it going? Hi, it's good, thanks.
• 0:21
  How's it going? Not too bad.
• 0:23
  Not too bad and it's a pleasure to have you on the show.
• 0:26
  Obviously you've been in my kind of network for some Um, time now
• 0:31
  and, you know, obviously, I always go and do extensive
• 0:35
  research on every guest I have on the show.
• 0:37
  And sometimes I do a bit more sometimes I do bit less.
• 0:41
  I literally have like two sides of a 4 here and I to be honest,
• 0:46
  I could have done even more, there was just so much so this
• 0:50
  people will be a long one in a good way.
• 0:53
  And I personally prefer the longer episodes.
• 0:55
  I mean, they are obviously pain in the ass to edit but Is more
• 1:00
  content, there is more to dissect and generally comes out,
• 1:04
  you know, better versus just doing like a straight interview
• 1:07
  or whatever. And I always try to aim for that
• 1:09
  kind of discussion, based style of podcast, but enough about me,
• 1:15
  I want to just get straight into your music because, you know,
• 1:18
  you'd mentioned a few times. And some of my streams that you
• 1:21
  were a musician and you did and you're in a band and stuff and
• 1:24
  you kind of kept it under wraps for some time.
• 1:26
  And then you obviously approached me and said, hey Al
• 1:29
  let's be On the podcast. Yeah, this is like, I've changed
• 1:32
  the set up in my room so now at least.
• 1:37
  Yeah. Just like Anyway, back to you.
• 1:40
  So, yeah, you'd mentioned in your streams in my stream.
• 1:43
  Sorry. Quite a few times that you were
• 1:45
  in this band and obviously, I took some time to look into it.
• 1:49
  The band is called death guns. Awesome name.
• 1:55
  So, yeah, tell us about that band how it came to be and your
• 1:59
  plan. For that bug.
• 2:01
  Well, this band is kind of a new thing for me and basically, I
• 2:06
  was quite good friends with the lead singer, I knew she had a
• 2:09
  band and, you know, things always happen with, you know,
• 2:12
  bands, especially in the beginning.
• 2:14
  Like, you know, people leave people find other stuff to do,
• 2:17
  you know, people go and get jobs because it's not working out
• 2:20
  straight away and they don't work out straight away.
• 2:25
  But yeah, so she was online and she was asking people.
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  You know, does anyone know any musicians that might want to
• 2:32
  join in on this project? And I was like, you know what?
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  Yeah, why not? It sounds like fun.
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  So we just kind of started from there and I went to my first
• 2:43
  rehearsal and they had this song that was pretty much darn.
• 2:47
  I mean there's a few bits that needed doing and there's still a
• 2:50
  few bits that we can, like, clean up on now, but I really
• 2:54
  like the song, and from that point, it's just kind of like,
• 2:57
  taking off with Ben. So these Rehearsals, you know,
• 3:01
  few times and there's songs pretty much done.
• 3:05
  The thing is like, we've got one song that is good and ready to
• 3:08
  go. Like we're so happy with it.
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  And there are like loads that are half done or ones that were
• 3:13
  completely done with scrapped. So it's a lot of work that we've
• 3:17
  got to do now because we keep changing our minds.
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  Basically, I'm a little bit confused about your position in
• 3:23
  the band because I remember a few times, you'd said that
• 3:26
  you're a singer in My Stream. So I Assume that you the lead
• 3:31
  singer. And then I saw on the Facebook
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  page, I think all the Instagram. The Instagram is says that
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  you're the second guitarist was like, okay.
• 3:40
  But then I looked up the videos and there is definitely one of
• 3:44
  you. I'm pretty sure it's you, right.
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  It says, basically like there's like a drama or guitarist
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  playing and then there's a girl at the far end of the room
• 3:52
  singing and it wasn't sure if that's you or if that's the
• 3:56
  singer. Can you clear that up?
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  What was your position about? D sing are you backup singer, is
• 4:01
  that the deal or I can sing and I do sing but not in this band
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  plans. I am much more comfortable just
• 4:10
  behind the guitar and occasionally, if I need to do
• 4:12
  like a doo. Doo doo!
• 4:13
  Oh, no, no, that's fine. But you know, when I sing, it's
• 4:19
  like my music and, like, my personal music and that I
• 4:24
  haven't really reported or gotten out yet, but I've kind of
• 4:27
  started to get some ideas for it and making plans for or it.
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  But in this band, I am Rhythm guitarist for the main part.
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  So yeah, that's my part in it. That wasn't me in the video.
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  I wish it was. I wish I could sing like her but
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  I'm not quite at that level. Okay, cool.
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  Cool. Cool.
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  Let's it, that's interesting. So obviously you've got solar
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  work and what and we'll get into that.
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  But is this kind of your main focus right now?
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  Or are you going to do it? Kind of like spend some time on
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  this, take a break, spend some time on your solo work that
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  what's kind of how To manage the two projects.
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  So my main focus is this band at the moment and we're on from has
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  a really good like rock music scene and that's why I think
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  that, you know, this has potential to do so well which is
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  why I'm focusing on that. And also my solo music, it's not
• 5:18
  polished. Its kind of stuff that I was
• 5:20
  doing in my free time, especially throughout lockdown
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  and then have recently got the idea that actually.
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  Yeah, I could record it and I could do stuff with it.
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  So, Sin. It's very very early stages.
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  Hmm and you mentioned him to me in confidence that obviously I
• 5:38
  know there might be things you can and can't say but the way
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  you put it to me was that this band is close to maybe breaking
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  out, get getting somewhere gettin an opportunity.
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  I don't know what people say these days but let's say
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  breaking up. So what's the deal?
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  Are you you Close to getting signed or is it kind of like a?
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  I know you've got some music out.
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  So presumably you're kind of working for an EP or something I
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  do maybe a first record. So talk to us a little bit about
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  the sort of the label situation and where we stand as far as
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  pertains to like a first record. So I guess we're working towards
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  our first EP as I say this is quite a new band we've only got
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  a couple songs really At the moment that are kind of done but
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  working towards this and we have this guy and he's amazing and he
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  like helps us out with all of our tracks and, you know, he's
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  got quite a big interest in producing an EP and her first
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  record I believe, but it's still win, like the talking stages.
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  We're kind of going through it as a group of figuring out, you
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  know, what works best for us, because he is, he used to live
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  in the UK, he lives over in America now, so, it's quite
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  difficult. To sort that out.
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  But that's, that's kind of where we're at at the moment.
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  Obviously being a noob and we haven't been able to Gig, right?
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  And, you know, that's one of the things that you need to do.
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  You know, before anything you need to build up a fan base and
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  luckily, we've got quite a lot of people that are interested
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  our music. But really we want to get to the
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  gigging stage first and see how that goes down and, you know,
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  try and get some people on board with it but obviously the UK is
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  I mean right now at least is opened up for digging.
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  So are you digging anytime soon? I mean you must have a couple of
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  kind of gigs lined up already. Still practicing and get ready
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  for that at the moment. So fingers crossed it will be
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  soon but we do have a new Drummer that's literally just
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  joined so kind of you know get him used to the music and you
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  know, all start learning to play together because with bands you
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  have to you can't just In someone in and then like start
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  because it takes a while to get that kind of group together and
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  playing together and being all in sync, I think just because
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  you're all musicians that you can just straight away go on
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  and, you know, it doesn't work like that.
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  And how would you describe the band's sound?
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  Like, I know I don't label suck, but sometimes it does help
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  people, to at least have a rough idea.
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  What, what, what, what, what, what bands would you compare
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  yourself to? What's the sound like for Deaf
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  guns? I think it's a mixture of
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  different things. I mean, all of us are in two
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  different kinds of music and, you know, it's all kind of come
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  together. And so, you know, the guitarist,
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  he writes, you know, his guitar riffs Inspired by the band's.
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  He likes nothing there. Sings like something sounds that
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  she enjoys. So it's kind of a collection of
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  a lot of different stuff, but, you know, they've put it under
• 8:59
  this term of like easy call Rock easy.
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  Cool. Yeah.
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  So I guess that's kind of the gist of it but, you know, it's
• 9:09
  kind of a mixture of all sorts of stuff at the moment.
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  So I'm not exactly sure what I'd clasp.
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  It has will give us some examples.
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  Samples, what kind of bands do you think you sound like, when
• 9:19
  you, when you guys jamming? Do you hear certain influences
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  in that or are their direct influences that you're drawing
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  inspiration from? You know, we have songs that are
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  so all of us kind of came from this same.
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  You know, when we started, we're all kind of like these.
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  Emo kids, right? So, it's all those kind of
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  bands. You know, that we take our
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  inspiration from because that was when, you know, that was the
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  music we listen to when we start to get into like, playing music
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  and stuff or starting to go to gigs.
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  So it's difficult to say like one particular band because
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  there's just all sorts, it's like a Frankenstein of all these
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  emo bands. And lots of different stuff as
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  well. I mean, obviously, we don't want
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  to copy anything or be exactly the most, you know, anything
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  else. Because then you know, what's
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  the point it's already been done.
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  So I think it's difficult at the moment and especially with like
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  only having limited music out and still deciding.
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  You know, we're kind of still deciding what our sound is going
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  to be because, you know, some of our songs are completely
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  different to each other and we don't know what kind of Music's
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  going to follow because you know the quite indecisive we can't
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  choose what we like what we don't like you know, I know I
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  know that that's feeling. I remember my first metal band,
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  it was the same way. If you listen to our first EP
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  there's bits and pieces different ideas here and there
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  and then and unfortunately we never actually got a second EP
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  out, but by that point, we'd written five or six more songs,
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  which were like, okay, this is us and it's Sounded changed it
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  went from more like contemporary metal, thrash metal to
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  post-hardcore. I guess that kind of vibe.
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  So it's very different but it happened over the course of
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  gigging and slowly, but surely working together.
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  So yeah, I know exactly where you're coming from on this.
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  And I think what I'd say to you is just wait for that moment
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  where it clicks and you're like, yeah, okay, this is, this is the
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  vibe because the whole band up into it'll be like, okay, this
• 11:31
  particular song This is what we need to replicate.
• 11:34
  This is the vibe kind of thing, but yeah, right, everyone knows
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  it's right, you know, it's interesting.
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  Like, the amount of bands I've listened to, you know, you
• 11:43
  listen to, like demo versions of songs that they had penned and
• 11:49
  and the demo. I mean, sometimes the demo sound
• 11:52
  better than here later originals, but most often than
• 11:55
  not, it's like an idea and then your are K.
• 11:58
  So they spent a long time, tweaking this until they got to
• 12:01
  the point where it's like, Boom. But I would say it's very good
• 12:05
  that you're working with a producer because it was the same
• 12:08
  for us. I remember when we recorded that
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  first EP that the producer we work with, there's obviously a
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  professional musician as well, and they really helped kind of
• 12:18
  give us some idea shapes and things make some suggestions
• 12:21
  here and there which we used and we actually changed some of the
• 12:24
  songs here and there a little bit and it was easier for us to
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  play live as a result. So that when you get a good
• 12:30
  producer and they know what they're doing, and they're
• 12:32
  passionate. It's an invaluable tool in it.
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  Really super good way of educating yourself and growing
• 12:37
  as a band. So, yeah, best of luck with that
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  band, death guns. And I believe that you guys do
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  actually have released the first single as an unbreakable is that
• 12:49
  the tune. Yeah, so that's unbreakable.
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  That's our first song that we're all happy with and it's
• 12:54
  basically done. And a lot of that is actually
• 12:56
  over to the produces a when the song Started, there were just
• 12:59
  two people in the band and that was stinger.
• 13:02
  And The lead guitarist and this producer was amazing.
• 13:07
  He kind of like for everything together and like, Decided how
• 13:13
  the song would go according to what they wanted and then once
• 13:16
  they bought in, you know, other musicians to complete the band,
• 13:18
  then, you know, we could obviously work on it from our
• 13:22
  point of view and what works for us, but we had a base there.
• 13:25
  You know, we knew kind of like how the song was going to go and
• 13:28
  how he wanted to play it. But yeah, no.
• 13:32
  It's I like the song, excellent. And yes, we can find you on
• 13:38
  Instagram. Where else can we find Deftones
• 13:42
  Facebook, as well? But I think we're going to work
• 13:46
  on getting a bit of a bigger social media presents some
• 13:49
  point. But the moment Instagrams, I'll
• 13:52
  go to you guys on Tick Tock yet. He thought about know, I went on
• 13:57
  Tick-Tock yet. That is something that is kind
• 13:59
  of divided us a little bit deciding whether or not
• 14:04
  Interesting. Ok, ok.
• 14:05
  So to give people context for those who don't use Tick-Tock.
• 14:08
  There are a lot of bands out there that have been using
• 14:12
  Tick-Tock as a way to build their fan base successfully as
• 14:16
  well. There's a metal band called
• 14:18
  Raised by Wolves. I believe their name is who are
• 14:20
  doing pretty well and they started just doing like meme
• 14:23
  type videos specifically in the metal kind of genre and they've
• 14:29
  had relative success with it. There's also a band I think
• 14:33
  probably The, the arguably, the most successful band least in
• 14:36
  the metal sphere is oh horror. I think they're called O Hara
• 14:40
  bands. And they obviously played at
• 14:41
  this year's Fest, download festival and they literally just
• 14:45
  built up their kind of following through Instagram, by just
• 14:49
  playing all of those songs that were trending on Tick-Tock and
• 14:52
  doing that their own little mini versions.
• 14:55
  And they've basically leveraged it in a good way because
• 14:59
  obviously people mainly come for the covers and the fun and the
• 15:02
  means and stuff, but People stay some people like the band and,
• 15:06
  and we'll stay and, and that has actually been proven by if you
• 15:11
  look at that people's Spotify monthly listens and stuff, there
• 15:15
  is a direct correlation between that before they started to
• 15:17
  talk. And then afterwards, there is
• 15:18
  that kind of, let's say evidence that it does actually help in
• 15:23
  some shape or form. But it's interesting that you
• 15:26
  say that your band is divided on that, I'd like to know why what
• 15:29
  what are the kind of reasons for and against at the moment, as
• 15:33
  far as I found this concerned, I think it's a useful tool,
• 15:37
  definitely. You know, loads of people are on
• 15:40
  it and as you say loads of musicians, have used it to, you
• 15:43
  know, build their platform a bit.
• 15:45
  But the problem is that people obviously worried that you're
• 15:49
  going to get stuck in this box of Tip-Top, you know, band or
• 15:55
  Creator or something. And it's it's difficult because
• 16:00
  you know it is so useful and you know there You can build a lot
• 16:05
  from that but it's whether you want to risk being like known as
• 16:10
  that band from Tick, Tock or whatever.
• 16:13
  So, you know, it's it has it's good points and it's bad points.
• 16:17
  Definitely. Okay.
• 16:18
  But Playing devil's advocate for a second because I know we are
• 16:21
  coming from, and I think that's a very smart kind of response to
• 16:25
  that and I would be nervous of that too.
• 16:28
  But there are many instances of people who, you know, they
• 16:31
  started at one point and they've sort of Grown and changed, and
• 16:36
  come to a very different point. Like, for example, Justin
• 16:39
  Bieber, famously started on YouTube.
• 16:41
  Not many people actually remember this, or even know
• 16:43
  this, but, yeah, he was originally posting videos on
• 16:46
  YouTube. Okay.
• 16:47
  Fair enough when YouTube was not really, as big as I think this
• 16:51
  was a would have been like, anywhere from 2005 to 2007,
• 16:56
  because I think he was discovered in want to say, 2008,
• 16:59
  2009 by Usher, but point is he was just like, What else?
• 17:03
  Just posting videos on the internet, hoping to get sign.
• 17:06
  If some young kid, and all these years later is a massive
• 17:10
  worldwide known artist, but my point is no one ever mentions
• 17:15
  the whole YouTube thing. I never hear that in
• 17:16
  conversations, like if anything, whenever they talk about his
• 17:19
  Beginnings, mostly what they say is, oh well, I should discovered
• 17:22
  him, that's about it, you know. So do you not think that?
• 17:28
  That could work out that way for you.
• 17:29
  I mean, maybe is it, is it more a question of how you manage
• 17:32
  that versus tournament? Because if it's something that
• 17:36
  you wear as a banner like, yeah, where that band from Tick?
• 17:38
  Tock, then that's obviously, your kind of potentially
• 17:42
  shooting yourself in the foot in the future but if you just you
• 17:45
  sort of acknowledge it but you move on and you just keep kind
• 17:48
  of focusing on the next thing. Maybe it's the sort of thing
• 17:51
  that you can sort of leave behind and if it gets mentioned
• 17:54
  you can be like. Yeah.
• 17:54
  But like you don't kind of play on it, if that makes sense.
• 17:58
  Yeah. No I'm just wasn't a great.
• 18:00
  I think that would be a good idea personally because you
• 18:03
  know, there are so many people on there.
• 18:04
  And you know with the whole lockdown thing, lots of people
• 18:08
  took to tick tock to find music stuff and you always find new
• 18:12
  stuff you know popping out of nowhere with all these songs so
• 18:16
  it's a good idea definitely but I think there's I think there's
• 18:19
  also a little bit of a stigma around it.
• 18:21
  You know the whole you know Tick-Tock thing you know lots of
• 18:25
  people for ages were like Well, I've never download Tick-Tock or
• 18:29
  whatever, I was doing that kind of like mindset.
• 18:33
  And to be there, I was like that.
• 18:35
  I was like, why would anyone use Tick-Tock?
• 18:37
  And now, I scroll on it. But our orders it's interested.
• 18:41
  I kind of had a similar mindset, although my mindset wasn't so
• 18:45
  much that Tick-Tock didn't have any value.
• 18:47
  Because I just saw it as a music version of Vine and I thought
• 18:50
  Vine was excellent too. But I always saw it is like, oh
• 18:54
  well, this is just for the younger generation teenagers.
• 18:57
  Young kids stuff, you know, that's all it is.
• 19:00
  And then I discovered all these amazing creators on there and
• 19:03
  you know, people basically using it as like YouTube in a way or
• 19:09
  maybe that's the wrong way of putting it, but using it in
• 19:12
  YouTube, in the sense that they were creators of solely on this
• 19:15
  app and even me like Tick-Tock has become the most successful
• 19:19
  platform for me and that's just purely, just by chance.
• 19:25
  Really, to be honest, I mean I posts Post equally across all
• 19:29
  different platforms that I'm on. You know, I never stopped doing
• 19:31
  YouTube for instance, but Tick-Tock just seems to be the
• 19:35
  one that's worked me, but I don't know.
• 19:39
  I've got a hot take on this. I don't actually think Tick-Tock
• 19:42
  is going to last, to be honest. And the reason why is, you know,
• 19:47
  I'm an elder on the internet. I always are as around in the
• 19:50
  times of my space Bebo, you'd be.
• 19:53
  I think you'd be a bit too young for that, but yeah.
• 19:57
  And And they were kind of fads and okay, technically Myspace
• 20:00
  does still exist but no one uses it like, come on but at one
• 20:04
  point Myspace was the most successful social media website.
• 20:09
  And it had I think as many as 500 million users may be more
• 20:15
  and within the space of three or four years, it just died, died a
• 20:19
  death, you know, and that's down to poor management and many
• 20:21
  other things. But you know, let's be real
• 20:25
  Instagram and YouTube, you know, they stuck around Evolved,
• 20:28
  they've changed with the times Vine.
• 20:30
  I mean, I still don't understand the decision for Vine being
• 20:34
  being closed at. I guess they just didn't find a
• 20:36
  way to make money from it. Maybe there could be many
• 20:38
  reasons, but Vine was still successful at the point at which
• 20:42
  it was closed. And they still decided to delete
• 20:45
  that and get rid of and end it. And I feel like Tick-Tock is
• 20:50
  kind of like the spiritual successor in many ways and
• 20:54
  obviously used to be called musically, and then they changed
• 20:57
  it to Telecommunications. Tick Tock and In fairness, it's
• 20:59
  been around awhile. I think, as long as I want to
• 21:02
  say 2018 was really, when it kind of came into its own and
• 21:05
  obviously all these years later we're still it's growing, its
• 21:10
  getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
• 21:11
  And I think the pandemic was played a huge part in that as
• 21:15
  far as you know, encouraging people to do because they're
• 21:18
  suddenly everyone has loads of time why don't mess around this
• 21:20
  app and then people discover all actually I quite like this and
• 21:23
  some people even get successful from it so you know but yeah.
• 21:27
  I And this kind of brings it back to what we were talking
• 21:31
  about before with regards to using it for music purposes.
• 21:35
  I think that in five years from now it will be something like oh
• 21:39
  yeah, I remember that website Tick Tock.
• 21:41
  I honestly don't think it's going to last.
• 21:43
  I think it's a fad thing. I think the next thing will come
• 21:45
  along and you know, maybe I'll be wrong, I'd had I'd happily be
• 21:50
  wrong on this. But I'm just saying, I just
• 21:51
  don't see it lasting and for that reason, I don't think it
• 21:55
  would affect people that much if they got a success.
• 21:57
  From originally, from, from ticked up because, you know,
• 22:00
  there's many artists that got famous from from places like my
• 22:03
  space. For instance, Lily Allen often
• 22:06
  describes herself as well. Used to as the queen of my
• 22:10
  space. I think it's still on our
• 22:11
  Instagram bio and you know, that was that was in the to in the
• 22:16
  mid to late 2000s and you know obviously it died a death and
• 22:20
  you know she was already in the music industry.
• 22:21
  Her family was already big. A big proponent in pushing and
• 22:25
  getting those connections and stuff but that was where she
• 22:27
  That following initiative. So it's interesting.
• 22:32
  I don't know what were your thoughts on that?
• 22:36
  Tick Tock. Well I think that I think that
• 22:38
  you're right. I don't think it's gonna last
• 22:40
  forever and especially like the last few months maybe I'd say
• 22:45
  it's been all these people criticizing it about obviously
• 22:50
  problems that it has caused and problems with like the Creator
• 22:54
  fund and stuff and you know Shadow Banning which I just
• 22:58
  found out what it meant the other day, all right.
• 23:02
  But yeah, I think that there's been a lot of problems with And
• 23:06
  at some point, something very similar but you know, new and
• 23:10
  better is going to come along and it's going to have pretty
• 23:12
  much the same journey. I don't want to stray too far
• 23:16
  because I do want to get back to you but I just want to mention
• 23:19
  since you brought that up. Yeah.
• 23:20
  I mean obviously I got banned the other day from doing
• 23:23
  Tick-Tock lives which came out of nowhere.
• 23:26
  I was always very surprised but now I've had time to think about
• 23:30
  it. I'm not that surprised.
• 23:32
  I mean Tick Tock is a broken app and I actually started doing
• 23:37
  lives on my Instagram because there's little.
• 23:40
  So I've got this regular audience audience.
• 23:42
  Sorry that like and look forward to the streams and that was what
• 23:46
  I was most upset about. It was less about me.
• 23:49
  It was more about oh, but, you know, people look forward to
• 23:52
  these live. So I want to give back to this
• 23:55
  community. That gives so much to me, you
• 23:56
  know, like it means something to me and it's a space for them and
• 24:00
  obviously, Tick-Tock don't care about stuff like that when they
• 24:02
  ban you for no reason. But as soon as he On Instagram,
• 24:06
  and I did that first live. I was blown away by like the
• 24:10
  camera quality and just how good everything looked, and everyone
• 24:14
  in the chat was like, wow, the audio quality is excellent and
• 24:17
  the camera quality like, wow. And it almost kind of felt like,
• 24:20
  wow, like is Tick-Tock really that bad?
• 24:23
  Like for instance, I don't know if many people know this but
• 24:26
  Tick-Tock whenever you go on a live they automatically apply a
• 24:30
  filter to your face. I don't know what exactly the
• 24:34
  filter does. Some people say that it improves
• 24:36
  the way you look or I don't know, It makes you look thinner
• 24:40
  or something like that, but I bet you can sort of see it
• 24:43
  sometimes, your camera if you move it glitches.
• 24:45
  And it's y. Let's try to apply the filter
• 24:48
  whereas Instagram and other places.
• 24:49
  Don't do that. Like you're on your own.
• 24:51
  Now you got to stop your own space to try and make yourself
• 24:54
  look better. I suppose.
• 24:56
  But yeah and also I recently obviously left the create a fund
• 25:01
  and I've said I've experienced an increase in views, which is
• 25:08
  interesting. Most people tend to say that,
• 25:12
  you know, you actually lose views when you go into it, which
• 25:17
  I kind of didn't I didn't, I had a few videos that did well, but
• 25:20
  mostly they were sort of capped around to 300 views.
• 25:24
  Whereas now they're getting a lot more.
• 25:29
  And yeah, I mean like you said you mentioned Shadow Banning and
• 25:32
  things like that, I'm not sure necessarily if that exists I
• 25:35
  think that Tick Tock just likes to play around a lot and and
• 25:40
  kind of test things out at the expense of creators.
• 25:44
  I think the trouble is people people.
• 25:48
  I think that Tick Tock should be a platform where, you know that
• 25:52
  Tick Tock is a business. It's just like YouTube when
• 25:55
  people get annoyed at all, I can't believe that they're
• 25:57
  imposing all these rules. Well, the reason that YouTube
• 26:00
  does that is because of sponsors and advertisers, and that's how
• 26:04
  they make their money. So they want to please them,
• 26:06
  they don't care about the creators, they care about,
• 26:08
  pleasing the sponsors, you know. And so the creators have to
• 26:12
  adhere to the rules in order to get, you know, their slice of
• 26:15
  the action but YouTube is solely focused.
• 26:17
  On that. And I feel like Tick-Tock is
• 26:19
  kind of the same because they, obviously, there are advertisers
• 26:21
  on Tick. Tock now as well, but I think
• 26:26
  people assume that Tick-Tock cares about its creators and
• 26:30
  owes a lot to its creators. And I don't think that they care
• 26:33
  at all or at least that's the impression I get.
• 26:35
  I mean, I've been banned from doing lives now for I did, I was
• 26:40
  a two or three days and I haven't had any correspondence
• 26:43
  with them. I know that I've sent a message,
• 26:45
  I know that at least eight to ten other people in my community
• 26:49
  has sent a message. Nothing, no correspondence, not
• 26:52
  even, not even information as to why and I'll quickly just cover
• 26:59
  why I got banned. Just so that, you know, people
• 27:02
  are like, what did you get bad? Here's why.
• 27:04
  So we were doing a live and we were talking about
• 27:08
  advertisements. A successful advertising in the
• 27:11
  UK. And obviously, many people know
• 27:12
  that I have a marketing background.
• 27:14
  I love marketing and advertising.
• 27:16
  So we were talking because I know there's what I had.
• 27:19
  And I have an international audience and some of my viewers
• 27:22
  obviously, like to ask about well, what is UK advertising
• 27:26
  like what's this most successful advert?
• 27:28
  And some some examples that came to mind for the John Lewis
• 27:31
  Christmas, advertisements. Some of some of the supermarket
• 27:35
  ones we have and then I mentioned the word poor, and I
• 27:40
  said, obviously, They had a fantastic advertisement
• 27:46
  somewhere I think 2016 2017 something like that it was a
• 27:49
  Christmas advert and it was absolutely excellent.
• 27:52
  And there was nothing expletive about it.
• 27:55
  Neither in the way that I've recounted this story or indeed
• 27:58
  the actual advertisement self if you Google it totally fine.
• 28:01
  It's just a funny advert where like a grandkid gives a card to
• 28:05
  his grandfather or something and there's like a little cheeky
• 28:08
  smile and then that's it. That's it.
• 28:10
  As literally it and it became really successful.
• 28:13
  It was very tongue-in-cheek, everyone knew what it was about,
• 28:17
  but it was the first time we'd ever really seen anything like
• 28:19
  that from a company like that. So that's what I said in my life
• 28:24
  and literally I'd say within a minute, boom, because you don't
• 28:29
  get any information. This is what happens when you
• 28:30
  get banned on Tick-Tock. You don't get any information.
• 28:32
  It just suddenly ends. And it doesn't tell the viewers
• 28:35
  either. So they assume I have people
• 28:37
  messaging me going. Did you kick me out?
• 28:39
  Did it get blocked? I might know it.
• 28:42
  I just got bad. And I like, why am I?
• 28:45
  And the official reason that Tick-Tock gave was adult nudity
• 28:50
  and sexual activity. Your thoughts are not because
• 28:59
  I'm always there when it happened.
• 29:03
  And obviously I thought I got booted out and I was like why
• 29:05
  did I get bitched out? But yeah it just automatically
• 29:08
  like it was like as soon as you said the word it took like I
• 29:12
  don't know 20 seconds and then it was like nope done and I
• 29:15
  really actually just they're talking about adverts and this
• 29:18
  is like a daytime TV advert. Like there was nothing like you
• 29:21
  know inappropriate about In that sense.
• 29:25
  There's some before Watershed it's time.
• 29:28
  Yeah, exactly. This is the maze.
• 29:31
  I mean, the only thing I can assume is that you can't say the
• 29:34
  word porn, which if that's true. That's the most ridiculous thing
• 29:39
  I've ever heard in my life like ever, you know, because I mean
• 29:43
  you should be able to talk about things.
• 29:46
  In reference to things. Do you know what I mean?
• 29:49
  Like, I should be able to use that word if I'm talking about
• 29:52
  an advert. Obviously if I started going
• 29:55
  into like excessive detail and about something that was
• 29:58
  inappropriate. Yeah, fair enough.
• 30:00
  But I didn't. And it just, I don't know.
• 30:03
  It annoyed me. And at first, I was really down
• 30:05
  and upset about it. But after giving it some
• 30:08
  thought, I'm not that bothered. I mean, I think that when you
• 30:13
  look at the functionality of tick tock as well as far as,
• 30:16
  like just How the app works and how you use it?
• 30:19
  It's very broken. I mean, there are positives.
• 30:22
  I think the algorithm is very good at generally, presents, you
• 30:25
  good things, but sometimes it just presents, you just random
• 30:27
  stuff and you aren't, I don't like this.
• 30:29
  I don't want to see this and it keeps pushing that stuff to you.
• 30:32
  Even if you pick that, you're not interested.
• 30:34
  But I've had people that I've literally said, not interested,
• 30:37
  not interested, because I don't want to see that Creator, and it
• 30:39
  keeps suggesting it to me. And I'm like, what, what is
• 30:43
  this? But anyway, we spoken about
• 30:48
  Tick-Tock. Let's bring it back to you.
• 30:51
  So before we get into your solo work, I want to kind of take it
• 30:55
  back to when you first got into music.
• 30:57
  So tell us a little bit about your musical journey and how you
• 31:00
  first got interested or inspired to get into music.
• 31:05
  I think of always really loved music and, you know, my parents
• 31:09
  very much like reinforced that they're both massively into
• 31:13
  music and all sorts of different types as well.
• 31:15
  Which is how, you know, I kind of got into a listen to a bit of
• 31:18
  everything, you know. I don't put myself down to like
• 31:22
  one genre because I listen to what, you know, I was brought up
• 31:25
  around and I remember like my parents were always tell me like
• 31:29
  to make me calm down like as a small child, a toddler.
• 31:32
  They put on like music. Videos on the TV and that would
• 31:35
  like make me like be quiet and I just sit there and watch them.
• 31:41
  So I think I've always had an interest in music and, you know,
• 31:44
  I remember, you know, my dad used to mix up CDs for me.
• 31:48
  That I listen to when I went to sleep.
• 31:50
  Lots of like David Bowie and the Beetle.
• 31:54
  And you know, I remember them quite fondly.
• 31:56
  I really enjoyed them and make it like a mission to listen to
• 31:59
  as many songs as I could before I fell asleep.
• 32:04
  And then I remember trips you my granddad so we go in the car and
• 32:07
  he put on some of his CDs with listen to Johnny Cash and the
• 32:11
  doors and you know it was just a whole mixture of different stuff
• 32:16
  that you know, I have these really good.
• 32:18
  You know, links to memories with and, you know, I think music
• 32:22
  helped me a lot growing up figuring out, you know who I
• 32:26
  was. And you know what interested me,
• 32:30
  and I think you can tell a lot about a person by what kind of
• 32:33
  music they listen. Listen to.
• 32:35
  So I think that it was a whole mixture of different stuff than
• 32:41
  different types of music that really got me into it and I
• 32:44
  never thought about playing music until I got to about 13
• 32:48
  and I remember being in school and we had our first like proper
• 32:52
  music lesson in the big news that groom and they're all these
• 32:56
  other students that could play instruments and we were learning
• 32:59
  about all these different kind of instruments.
• 33:00
  If I saw someone, I think there are like zero Then maybe and
• 33:05
  they're like, shredding on this guitar and I was like, that's
• 33:08
  cool. I want to do that.
• 33:09
  And so from that point, I just kind of decided that I wanted to
• 33:14
  learn to play different instruments and, you know, start
• 33:18
  really getting into it and write music as well, you know, writing
• 33:21
  little pieces pieces that I could play and I think that's
• 33:25
  where it all stemmed from. What were your music lessons?
• 33:29
  Like, because I must say mine crap, like absolutely crap.
• 33:33
  And I'll Tell you about mine afterwards but please tell me
• 33:37
  about yours. Were they good?
• 33:38
  I'd like, what was the General structure?
• 33:40
  Like, how did they look music lessons and selves?
• 33:43
  Really good. You know, we did all sorts of
• 33:46
  different stuff. You know, we'd learn to do like
• 33:50
  different pieces. We learned to play the keyboard
• 33:52
  and we do B on guitar and there was all sorts, but I was in a
• 33:55
  school that was full of kids that maybe weren't interested in
• 34:01
  that kind of stuff. Interesting.
• 34:04
  We were famously known in the area for having badly behaved
• 34:08
  kids, and it was kind of this self-fulfilling prophecy that
• 34:12
  all these kids would then like Misbehavin all lessons and
• 34:15
  especially me because you have all these things to mess about
• 34:18
  with the make loud noises. So it's always really
• 34:21
  distracting and we'd have people, you know, smashing up
• 34:24
  these instruments in class and it was just it was difficult
• 34:28
  because the lessons themselves were really good.
• 34:31
  You know, I can't fault them on that and I was lucky that I Went
• 34:34
  to a school that had such good, you know, had all this equipment
• 34:39
  and all this funding towards, you know, performing arts and
• 34:42
  stuff. You know, we were quite lucky
• 34:45
  with that but I don't think many people appreciated it.
• 34:48
  The way that we should have, it's very strange as well,
• 34:50
  because I could somewhat understand if it's like a really
• 34:53
  boring. There's somebody sitting there
• 34:54
  in maths and you just like, like kill me now, I understand that.
• 34:58
  But music, I mean, Everyone likes music did.
• 35:01
  I mean, like, even if you're the most disruptive, Uninterested,
• 35:05
  kid ever. Like, I remembered my music
• 35:07
  lessons. The only reason that people
• 35:10
  didn't like them was because they were boring, not because
• 35:13
  music is boring. It's just an, I couldn't believe
• 35:15
  it because I loved music from a young age I Ki.
• 35:18
  I think, for me it all started with, you know, listening to
• 35:22
  classical and whatever. I'd hear my parents listened to
• 35:26
  and stuff. But I think the moment it
• 35:27
  clicked where I suddenly started to develop my own taste was when
• 35:31
  this kid kind of came in its primary school.
• 35:34
  I think I was 9 10 years old and we're just Then he's like, you
• 35:39
  gotta listen to this. And we're like, what?
• 35:41
  What is it and he puts it in the CD player and it's Linkin,
• 35:46
  Park's, Hybrid Theory and it just come out.
• 35:49
  I sell old I am and it was it just blew my mind.
• 35:53
  I was like, what is this? This is amazing because I never
• 35:57
  heard music like that. I'd heard pop and, you know,
• 36:00
  light rock and stuff. But I've never heard like metal
• 36:03
  and like heavy and people screaming and intense, passion
• 36:06
  and stuff. And I was like, I whatever this
• 36:08
  is. Is I want to listen to whatever
• 36:11
  stuff is like this, and I tried to explain it to my mama's, I
• 36:14
  need stuff like this. What do you have anything like
• 36:16
  this? And she's just gave me like
• 36:18
  Nirvana Metallica Hendricks, Motorhead like you name it and
• 36:23
  as I was Off to the Races, but as far as the music lessons at
• 36:27
  school, This was now going into secondary school, so I was like,
• 36:31
  really excited as a tall, cool. I'll get to learn how to play
• 36:34
  instruments. Unfortunately, I didn't have the
• 36:36
  money and neither did my family that we were poor.
• 36:38
  So we couldn't afford to actually pay for me to get
• 36:41
  lessons or anything, but the music lessons, the free ones
• 36:46
  were like an opportunity to at least get to grips with that.
• 36:49
  And all, I literally remember, was you'd ever come in and just
• 36:53
  sit down and do musical Theory or music history, so we'd be
• 36:56
  sitting there learning about like Indian classical.
• 36:58
  Music and that we never got to actually sit and listen to it.
• 37:02
  We just read about it. I kid you not and I answered
• 37:06
  like multiple choice questions on it and then maybe the next
• 37:09
  lesson we get to fiddle with a keyboard but not like learn a
• 37:13
  piece, you know, learn something good like or his some Chopin
• 37:15
  though. We'd be learning to something
• 37:17
  like really basic and boring, right?
• 37:19
  And I'd be most lessons. And then once in a blue moon, if
• 37:23
  the teachers feeling a bit through e, maybe she gets like
• 37:26
  other us. All kind of, I don't know, in a
• 37:29
  circle and it's just we've all got that the Sam but drums and
• 37:34
  someone's got that Bongos and it's like, campfire wallet.
• 37:40
  And she's just talking some nonsense and that was our music
• 37:44
  lessons and bear in mind, there's like drum kits.
• 37:47
  There's, you know, keyboards, there's this guitars, and I was
• 37:51
  like, I want to learn that. I want to go on that and they're
• 37:53
  like, no, no, you can't do that. We've got sitting piss about on
• 37:56
  these keyboards and it just killed it for me and truthfully.
• 38:00
  Music started for me when I traded my bike for a guitar and
• 38:07
  I started learning myself Because you know, School wasn't
• 38:10
  helping, couldn't afford for Less to pay for lessons.
• 38:13
  So I just started learning that way because maybe sometimes in
• 38:17
  life is better to do. It yourself, I don't know, but
• 38:21
  it's good to hear that your experience was at least a bit
• 38:23
  more positive like you know because I do worry about that
• 38:26
  sometimes with schooling for kids.
• 38:28
  Like when I went to school but I wanted some purposes I went to a
• 38:31
  pretty good school but there were a lot of areas where they
• 38:37
  manage to somehow make interesting things boring you
• 38:41
  know like art art lesson Dart was really hitting this.
• 38:45
  When I was at school it was either really interesting or
• 38:48
  really dull but just you know and I just you can make anything
• 38:54
  boring if you try hard enough but I think it's very important
• 38:57
  to try and make things engaging, especially if you're trying to
• 38:59
  keep teach kids and get them engaged in something.
• 39:02
  Then anyway, I mean I think that you know, with music and arts
• 39:08
  and You know, you have to have that creative space, you have to
• 39:11
  be able to, you know, do your own thing.
• 39:13
  You can't just, you know, read a sheet of paper and then answer
• 39:16
  questions on it because, you know, where's the creativity?
• 39:19
  And that the whole point is creativity in, you're just like
• 39:23
  taking away. The entire point of it by, you
• 39:26
  know, is it A B C or D? So, and it's like nothing
• 39:31
  against Indian classical music. I'm sure it's fantastic but I
• 39:35
  had no interest in that. Like I got no way of relating
• 39:38
  that that Would have been interesting if for instance,
• 39:41
  we'd first learned about classical music and UK something
• 39:46
  we can relate to, okay, this is music made in your country.
• 39:48
  Okay, great. And then like, this is music.
• 39:51
  Same genre Made in India to see what I mean.
• 39:53
  It's basic. Yeah, you know, all I don't
• 39:56
  know. Start with Rock and metal and
• 39:59
  Hip-Hop and and show like the diagram tree.
• 40:02
  Like for instance, there's a very famous scene in and its
• 40:05
  tongue in cheek but, you know, School of Rock with Jack Black.
• 40:09
  So there's a scene in it where he's like teaching on the board
• 40:11
  and there's like a big tree in the background that he's drawn
• 40:15
  on the chalkboard and it's showing all like the connections
• 40:17
  between different genres and what leads to what and all that
• 40:21
  stuff, and it's a really fascinating.
• 40:24
  Look at how music works and how it brooches off and how
• 40:27
  everything is connected because I'm sure you can appreciate this
• 40:29
  as a fellow musician. When you become a musician, you
• 40:33
  learn to kind of appreciate all genres, even if you're not like
• 40:37
  so hot in to them, you know. Like I'm not Big fan of jazz for
• 40:40
  instance, I think it's okay. But it doesn't blow me away but
• 40:43
  I know people that it does blow away and I still appreciate and
• 40:47
  respect it. You know, where is there's
• 40:49
  people that aren't musicians that won't necessarily feel that
• 40:53
  way and I just think it's important to have a good
• 40:57
  knowledge of these things. And, you know, especially at
• 41:00
  school, that's the sort of stuff, they should be teaching,
• 41:01
  you know, do you teach music theory and music history?
• 41:05
  There needs to be a mixture of practicality actually teaching
• 41:08
  people to play instruments. Currents.
• 41:09
  And then because it is kind of a useful tool, you know what I
• 41:12
  mean? Like, one way of looking at it
• 41:16
  is it's a way to find work. You know, there's so many
• 41:18
  different ways you can earn money in music, not just book
• 41:21
  from becoming a musician but like, for instance session
• 41:24
  musicians, you know, that's that's an active thing that many
• 41:28
  people do people do that is Project by project and it's
• 41:32
  constant work and you don't have to be in any way created.
• 41:39
  Incline that no offense to session musicians I'm sure
• 41:42
  plenty of them are very very talented.
• 41:44
  I'm just talking about specifically like you learn to
• 41:46
  play other people's music. That's that's the kind of neural
• 41:48
  are Hired Hand, you know. It's no different to being like,
• 41:51
  I don't know, a plumber or something.
• 41:53
  It's like you learn a trade, you learn a skill and then you go
• 41:56
  out and you use it to make money or for instance, being the live
• 41:59
  band at a particular venue. Like, I believe Steel Panther
• 42:04
  were the house band at a particular club for like years
• 42:08
  and years. And years before they ever got
• 42:11
  famous, you know, and they made a good fairly good earnings from
• 42:15
  it, you know. So I don't know I think that
• 42:20
  when it comes to education and music it's there's a lot that
• 42:23
  could be done to change things and kind of really inspire
• 42:25
  people to see the potential and opportunities in the field.
• 42:31
  As opposed to just oh hey let's have a bit of fun.
• 42:35
  Don't mean and just muck around the or indeed.
• 42:38
  Let's just History forever me, not everyone is, you know, into
• 42:47
  academic education. You know, some people, it just
• 42:50
  doesn't work for them, and that's not to say that there's
• 42:52
  something else that wouldn't work for them.
• 42:54
  For example, the creative subjects, often, if someone, you
• 42:59
  know, they might struggle in maths or science or English, but
• 43:03
  then be amazing in art and, you know, acting Ting, you know, I
• 43:10
  think that you need to have a good balance between both types
• 43:14
  of subjects. Otherwise, you're completely
• 43:17
  isolating a whole group of people that aren't, you know,
• 43:21
  they can't work in that kind of environment and by making, you
• 43:25
  know, your music lessons as you say like where you just read a
• 43:28
  page and wrote stuff down, then it's just academic it's not
• 43:32
  there's none of that other side of it and that means that those
• 43:36
  people that would be really good at music and you Really have a
• 43:40
  chance at whole career in music miss out because the school has
• 43:45
  just done it like any other lesson.
• 43:49
  And bring it back to you. Who do you take inspiration from
• 43:53
  as far as Your particular music that you write B for Deaf guns,
• 44:00
  or for your solo work or or just in general, particularly
• 44:03
  musicians, that stand out for you and who inspire you?
• 44:06
  Or maybe even that you try to emulate in some shape or form.
• 44:11
  Sorry, for my solo stuff, that's more stuff that, you know, I've
• 44:16
  grown up listening to him, really enjoyed, and I have done
• 44:19
  a whole bunch of songs that are very.
• 44:22
  I've imagined them being very Johnny Cash kind of thing
• 44:27
  because you know, he's one of, you know, my favorite artists of
• 44:31
  all time, you know. I don't think there's one song I
• 44:35
  album of his that. I don't enjoy listening to.
• 44:38
  It just makes me feel good, it makes me feel happy.
• 44:40
  Happy. And I thought that maybe it
• 44:44
  would be strange to try and do that kind of music.
• 44:48
  Because it's not something that, you know, people would maybe
• 44:51
  imagine that I do for myself, you know.
• 44:57
  So it kind of started from there and I wrote a song that I
• 45:01
  thought would be like very cool if it was done in like his voice
• 45:04
  and stuff and then I thought well maybe I'll try singing it,
• 45:07
  you know, maybe I'll try playing it and narrow is like, okay, I
• 45:12
  love this job genre for me and I just wrote loads of stuff to do
• 45:16
  with that. And yeah, a lot of it has been
• 45:21
  that kind of music so far, but there's other stuff as well that
• 45:25
  I've done. You know, I have my electric
• 45:28
  guitars as well. I like to do stuff.
• 45:30
  That's like a bit Rocky as well. I've done a lot of covers of
• 45:35
  stuff that I enjoyed and wrote stuff kind of not the said, but
• 45:40
  based on those kind of songs that I really enjoy, a lot of
• 45:44
  Stereophonics, love Stereophonics.
• 45:48
  So, yeah, it's kind of a mixture of all these genres that, you
• 45:53
  know, my parents showed me and Grandparents showed me which is
• 45:57
  very different, but there's a way you can make it all work
• 46:01
  together. As you say, like the big tree of
• 46:03
  different genres, they can all tie in together and talk to us a
• 46:10
  little bit more about like where your solo stuff is at the
• 46:12
  moment. So are you?
• 46:14
  Well, firstly, are you using your name?
• 46:16
  Using the stage name, have you got any music out the moment?
• 46:20
  I what's the deal with your solo, what?
• 46:22
  So I don't have anything out at the moment and I'm probably just
• 46:27
  going to use my name. I'm not creative enough to come
• 46:29
  up with another name for myself. I just get confused call now and
• 46:36
  I think it works, but yeah, I think that it was always
• 46:42
  something that is very personal and I never had any plans for it
• 46:45
  to be, you know, out there anywhere.
• 46:47
  I mean I started writing music mainly.
• 46:50
  So there was this one music lesson.
• 46:51
  We had a substitute. Teacher and, you know, they just
• 46:55
  came in and they're like, okay, write lyrics for a song under
• 46:59
  one of these kind of themes, and I had never done anything like
• 47:03
  that before. So I just kind of wrote and I
• 47:05
  was like this is like it's like poetry I really enjoyed poetry.
• 47:09
  So I wrote this song and I presented it to the substitute
• 47:14
  teacher and she was like this is really good.
• 47:15
  I really like this and she made a copy of it and kept it as I
• 47:19
  was. And that's where I was kind of
• 47:23
  like maybe maybe I could do this, maybe I should try and
• 47:27
  then obviously getting into playing guitar as well.
• 47:30
  I added the music to it and it just all kind of stem from that.
• 47:35
  Okay, thanks for and and do you have anything kind of planned
• 47:39
  right now? Look, I know you're busy with
• 47:41
  death guns. But is there any you think about
• 47:43
  maybe doing an initial single EP, something like that?
• 47:48
  But what's the plans right now? Potentially.
• 47:51
  So I'm kind of decided, I've got a whole book of like songs.
• 47:55
  There are like hundreds in there.
• 47:57
  Some are great, some really terrible, but I like them at the
• 48:01
  time. So I guess just going through
• 48:04
  them and deciding you know, what ones I could use and what ones
• 48:07
  people might like and recording them and considering getting
• 48:11
  some my friends that sing to, you know, come and help me out
• 48:14
  them as well. And then deciding what I'm going
• 48:18
  to do with these songs. I'm not going to put them out
• 48:21
  on, you know, the internet for everyone to see, or do I want to
• 48:25
  do some, you know, gigs and stuff.
• 48:28
  I think that it's quite open at the moment.
• 48:32
  Just waiting and seeing what happens with it, with music.
• 48:35
  Have you actually dig before? Have you been in previous Burns
• 48:40
  so further? Yeah.
• 48:42
  So I've been in previous bands. When I was like 14, maybe and
• 48:51
  you know, my first band, we were terrible.
• 48:53
  But you know, we were so passionate.
• 48:55
  We were like, this is going to go far.
• 48:57
  We were together for, like, four months.
• 48:59
  But, you know, but it was a, it was a passionate for months.
• 49:04
  Yeah. No.
• 49:05
  The whole four months was brilliant.
• 49:07
  You know, who we were, we were really in for it and then we
• 49:10
  realized actually. It's not good.
• 49:13
  Is it? Did you really have that
• 49:16
  conversation? Yeah, no, I think this group
• 49:20
  chat or something and someone just messaged you know, I like
• 49:25
  so are we going to like rehearse this weekend and drama?
• 49:29
  Just put? No, I don't feel like, oh,
• 49:31
  what's wrong? And he's like, well, we don't
• 49:32
  good our way. Why did you say that?
• 49:35
  We can, we can work on it. Yeah, I know, from that point,
• 49:39
  we kind of decided actually, like, all the music that we had
• 49:42
  was that none of us liked it. It was just something that we'd
• 49:46
  all put together. And then eventually, you know,
• 49:51
  maybe we should focus on a Cheesy SAS and then we'll try
• 49:54
  again afterwards. Well, this is interesting.
• 49:56
  Actually, like, how come you didn't come back to it because
• 49:59
  one thing I've always said about working with other people is
• 50:02
  that it's less about the talent. You have a more about the
• 50:07
  chemistry, and I'll give you an example.
• 50:09
  So I remember when my base is joined, my first band, we
• 50:13
  originally envisioned as having him as a third guitar.
• 50:17
  I just, I don't know what we were thinking, this was pre
• 50:19
  drummer. We were just, it was just me and
• 50:21
  the other guitarist and we were trying to figure out what to do
• 50:24
  and we were sitting listening to him and it was awful.
• 50:28
  But he was my friend and I wanted him in the band because I
• 50:31
  liked him and I thought I could work with him.
• 50:33
  I thought he was a good dude and I thought he would we could mold
• 50:37
  him. And I was right about this as
• 50:39
  well, which I'm kind of proud of and he was awesome because I
• 50:43
  said look. I don't know about the guitar
• 50:46
  saying we'll put it on hold. But how would you feel about
• 50:48
  playing bass? And he was kind of he sat there
• 50:51
  and reflected on it and he was like, I'm willing to give this a
• 50:53
  shot and he went out and he bought himself a base and he
• 50:56
  started learning base and I was, I couldn't have been more proud.
• 50:59
  I was really happy with him and he and he became our bases and
• 51:02
  he was good. He was experimental.
• 51:04
  He had fun with it and my point being that, you know we got good
• 51:11
  as a band like initially you know, it might have sounded like
• 51:14
  a bit of a racket but we were pretty tight from the beginning.
• 51:16
  There was chemistry there and that's why it worked.
• 51:18
  We were together for three years so was the issue, they're less
• 51:22
  that you just didn't want to play with each other.
• 51:25
  Or was it just disinterested or what was the actual reason?
• 51:30
  I think that we had this romanticized idea of what being
• 51:36
  in a band would be like, Like no work will just get together or
• 51:40
  Jam will look like have a number one hit will be done and you
• 51:45
  know, that wasn't the case because none of us at this point
• 51:48
  were very good at what we were playing.
• 51:51
  You know, we were 14 and we thought that we were like you
• 51:54
  know, the best. We had this God complex and then
• 51:57
  every time you recorded something and listen back, we
• 51:59
  are like yeah, it's all right, isn't it?
• 52:04
  Yeah. So I think you've got to this
• 52:07
  point, we're all like, wow, you know, we don't really have time
• 52:11
  to rehearse anyway because we're always school, you know, we had
• 52:15
  our music lessons and stuff. So we just kind of said oh call
• 52:20
  it quits. And then come back at some point
• 52:23
  and then everyone just focused on school.
• 52:26
  You know, other stuff was going on and, you know, I think I'll
• 52:30
  guitarist moved and started a new band and they got quite good
• 52:35
  with They were all right. So then that was also this like
• 52:40
  jealousy among like some of the other people in the band at
• 52:43
  which point I was I think I'm done with this now.
• 52:47
  Okay. So that's my kind of like a
• 52:50
  breakdown in. I get that I think that and this
• 52:53
  is why I'm apprehensive because people have said to me, like,
• 52:55
  Christian, why don't you get in the band?
• 52:57
  Why don't you start a band? It's like I would love to but I
• 53:01
  know I trust me. I really would.
• 53:02
  I'd like one of the things I've really wanted to do because I've
• 53:05
  done a lot of men. All bands.
• 53:06
  I've done that. Been there.
• 53:07
  Got the T-shirt. I would love to be the lead
• 53:09
  singer in a rock band, straight-up rock, band, or do.
• 53:13
  You know what I'd even be happy being?
• 53:15
  Just the rhythm guitarist, to be honest, just in a rock band,
• 53:18
  like I'd love to do that, but it's all about chemistry.
• 53:23
  It really is that I remember auditioning for a band once this
• 53:26
  was after my first band broke up and, you know, I was kind of
• 53:29
  just auditioning for various different bands and maybe I was
• 53:32
  still cuz, you know, when you leave a band that you've been in
• 53:34
  for so long, it's like Break up. You just you just pining and you
• 53:37
  just feel bad and there was one band that I it was like a hair
• 53:42
  metal style. Classic rock band, right?
• 53:45
  And they will really cool guys that really cool and we were
• 53:50
  jamming and we you know we had something and they were really
• 53:54
  feeling it, they were really Feelin It But I just my heart
• 53:56
  wasn't in it. I just wasn't feeling and they
• 53:59
  were so disappointed as I'm sorry guys.
• 54:02
  But this just it's just not there and I honestly think that
• 54:08
  it's true. Any any people that you work
• 54:10
  with musicians Wise, It's like dating.
• 54:12
  It's like being in a relationship, you can't force
• 54:15
  it, either, you got chemistry or you don't, it's as simple as
• 54:18
  that. So, yeah.
• 54:21
  And music is something that's so, like, personal to you and
• 54:24
  personal to everyone there. If you don't get along with the
• 54:27
  people and you don't want to share that, you know, so I think
• 54:31
  your relationship with the other people is so important.
• 54:34
  If there's someone that To get along with someone else.
• 54:36
  It's not going to work. Yeah.
• 54:38
  I mean you don't have to be like best mates per se, but I do
• 54:42
  think you have to, you have to get you have to like each other
• 54:45
  and get on and have some report because at the end of the day,
• 54:49
  looking forward, you going to be digging with these people.
• 54:51
  You're going to be stuck in close quarters, traveling with
• 54:55
  these people. Like you don't want to be around
• 54:57
  people, you dislike, or you got a problem with in those sorts of
• 55:00
  conditions because those issues are going to come out and then
• 55:02
  before you know it boom and ends you know and people I think
• 55:06
  though it's easy, just get a replacement, ah, you can, you
• 55:10
  know, have a million auditions, you're not going to fight, you
• 55:12
  know, and trust me, I tried when my first band failed, you know,
• 55:17
  I wanted to continue the band but it just wasn't happening.
• 55:20
  I couldn't find anyone. I know there were plenty of
• 55:22
  people. I worked with and it was just
• 55:24
  nothing there, you know? And it's, it's all about that
• 55:28
  chemistry thing, that's what it all boils down to, in the end.
• 55:33
  But yeah, but given that you've actually played shows For so
• 55:37
  girls, you back-to-back question.
• 55:39
  So firstly. Let's start with the worst.
• 55:43
  What's the worst show you've ever played?
• 55:47
  Oh God. Okay, so this wasn't really a
• 55:51
  show but it was in front of an audience.
• 55:53
  So I'm going to count it and it was really terrible.
• 55:56
  So we it was in. So it's in school and we had,
• 56:02
  you know, they form like the school bands and stuff, you know
• 56:05
  like projects and all of that. Yeah.
• 56:09
  And you're put into these groups as well.
• 56:10
  You don't get to. Here you what is which is the
• 56:12
  worst idea ever, by the way, just yeah, definitely.
• 56:17
  Anyway we'd had a few problems before and it turned out at the
• 56:21
  end, it was just two guitars in a singer.
• 56:24
  Everyone else was like, well I'm not going to do it which is
• 56:27
  like, you know, classic, you know, School sportsmanship.
• 56:31
  You know? So then we were, like, it's
• 56:35
  fine. We'll play it, will be great.
• 56:38
  So we start playing it and this is where Everything everything
• 56:42
  that could go wrong, went wrong. I think the first it was
• 56:46
  literally the first song like the first 10 seconds.
• 56:51
  So we had retuned, our guitars. And this guy is just gone to
• 56:57
  like play a chord two strings of snapped, straight off the bat.
• 57:02
  And we were like, right, okay? This isn't good.
• 57:05
  This isn't going to go. Well, I'll sing a trip top.
• 57:09
  So they were on this little platform.
• 57:11
  And it's like it's literally like two inches high but high at
• 57:16
  all. Anyway, she's like really going
• 57:19
  for it and you know, she's got all this like energy and she's
• 57:23
  trying to have a big stage presence because we'd had a
• 57:25
  whole chat about that before. It's off the stage, of course.
• 57:30
  But it's only an inch eyes. You think it would be that bad.
• 57:32
  Now she's Twisted her ankle and it's going in the wrong
• 57:35
  direction which point our teacher is like that was lovely,
• 57:39
  Jonah. Go sit down now, And yet we
• 57:43
  didn't get graded on that and she was like, you can try again
• 57:45
  sometime when you said that. Like oh, do you want to sit down
• 57:51
  what you're going to say? Do you want to go to the
• 57:52
  hospital, right? I just tell you to go back to
• 58:05
  class there's always the way I broke my arm.
• 58:09
  Oh just just just just But blue paper, towel on it.
• 58:13
  Be fine, right? Please don't sue us.
• 58:17
  Yeah. Okay, switch it up.
• 58:21
  What's the best show you've ever played?
• 58:26
  I think that's difficult because there's been basically anything
• 58:29
  where anything goes, right? Is a great show, you know, as
• 58:32
  long as nothing goes wrong, it's fine.
• 58:35
  But I do remember there was this one and I was I was not part of
• 58:40
  this band. And, but I was filling in for
• 58:43
  someone and these are all people that got along with, and I was
• 58:46
  like, well, this is going to be like, this is going to be fine,
• 58:49
  you know, I don't really know the songs that well, but we'll
• 58:51
  try and we'll see how it goes. And when it started playing
• 58:56
  like, everyone was like so helpful.
• 58:59
  And like all the people in like the audience, most of them were
• 59:02
  friends of people in the band. So they're all really supportive
• 59:06
  and it just like my confidence from that point.
• 59:09
  There's just like me. Um, okay, there's maybe I should
• 59:13
  like, and it was more, wasn't the fact it was this amazing gig
• 59:17
  but it was kind of this realization for me, like, how
• 59:19
  much I did enjoy it. And you know how, even though I
• 59:23
  wasn't like best prepared for it, you know, it still went well
• 59:27
  and at that point I was like, okay, well, I really like music.
• 59:31
  This went really well. You know, everyone was really
• 59:33
  nice. I could try this and that kind
• 59:36
  of kicked off my real love, the playing music.
• 59:41
  Fantastic. That's a really nice thing to
• 59:44
  hear like a lot of time when I've asked musicians that
• 59:47
  question on this podcast here they give like a good workout in
• 59:50
  that order. Was this particular performance?
• 59:52
  The crowd was good but my Barb. It's good to hear that, you
• 59:55
  know. Someone saying like yeah this is
• 59:57
  kind of reignited that belief in myself because believe me I know
• 1:00:01
  exactly where you're coming from.
• 1:00:02
  Like people ask me often in my streams like or why don't you
• 1:00:05
  play gigs Christian? I I'd love to see you play a
• 1:00:08
  show, trust me? I did.
• 1:00:10
  I played some Shows and then some as in a Solo performer as
• 1:00:13
  well years ago and it never went well and not because I wasn't
• 1:00:17
  good. I mean I wasn't It's difficult
• 1:00:23
  to be objective like nice about myself these days.
• 1:00:26
  Apparently I'm a lot better, but back then not so much.
• 1:00:32
  And that's why I do understand why, you know, when I would play
• 1:00:37
  a show people just give me the golf clap like, you know, but
• 1:00:44
  The resulting also this element which I've spoken about quite a
• 1:00:47
  few times and this applies, not just the music but everything,
• 1:00:51
  it's the numbers thing. It doesn't matter how successful
• 1:00:57
  or unsuccessful you are if you're not known, if people
• 1:01:02
  don't know you people don't care.
• 1:01:04
  You could put on like a killer performance, like just
• 1:01:08
  outstanding and most people are, who's that?
• 1:01:11
  I never heard of them. You know?
• 1:01:14
  And that's the frustrating thing about it because There were
• 1:01:17
  Petty people in the music industry, the terrible awful but
• 1:01:24
  because they're known, everyone respects them and likes them.
• 1:01:28
  So that famed thing all over the famous.
• 1:01:29
  So, you know, one likes them and it's the same reason that I
• 1:01:34
  don't really go out busking in Manchester because I see buskers
• 1:01:38
  there all the time and no one cares.
• 1:01:41
  No one cares. And these buskers are brilliant
• 1:01:44
  like genuinely good musicians. Yes, but no one cares.
• 1:01:48
  The only time people care is when it's really unique.
• 1:01:50
  Like I was walking through the other day back from volunteering
• 1:01:53
  and there was a kid and he was like 14 and his voice was
• 1:01:57
  amazing. And I just had to stop and I was
• 1:01:59
  on a call to a friend of mine and I just had to stop and give
• 1:02:02
  him some money and just pull out your well done.
• 1:02:05
  But that's like the only time that people really stop.
• 1:02:07
  All I Fringe students, shout out to glitches band, punk band that
• 1:02:11
  travels, the whole of the UK. So awesome.
• 1:02:15
  People will stop and listen, and look at that because it's not
• 1:02:18
  every day that you see a punk band in the middle of the
• 1:02:20
  street, right? But most people that you see up
• 1:02:22
  and down that street and it's the same faces as well.
• 1:02:24
  There's certain musicians, I see there all the time and I know
• 1:02:28
  that they're trying to get noticed and it's like you're not
• 1:02:30
  going to get noticed there. It's the wrong place to be
• 1:02:34
  firstly, it's just people walking up and down the High
• 1:02:37
  Street during the shopping. You might get a few people
• 1:02:40
  interested but mostly people don't care because they don't
• 1:02:43
  know who you are. You're just another person.
• 1:02:45
  Person just like them, trying to get famous and I'm not trying to
• 1:02:48
  be negative and painted, you know, miserable picture like
• 1:02:51
  don't try or something, I'm saying, try but trying different
• 1:02:54
  areas and if you're going to do gigs, build up a following, like
• 1:02:58
  what you said before about, what you're planning to do with deaf
• 1:03:02
  guns, I think is genius. Build up some Buzz?
• 1:03:05
  There was a lot. I imagine if I was in your
• 1:03:07
  position I would wait until that EPA has done release like one
• 1:03:12
  single. Get buzzed for it.
• 1:03:14
  Release the whole thing. And then everyone's like, all we
• 1:03:16
  go see this man. We gotta see this band.
• 1:03:18
  That's when you start digging because you've got some
• 1:03:20
  confirmed people, you got planned tour, give people you
• 1:03:24
  know, a chance to kind of plan make the plans and be that
• 1:03:28
  versus, you know, if you try and do it at any other time, people
• 1:03:33
  just want to show up. You know, I remember gigging for
• 1:03:36
  three years in London and you know, okay, we were just kids
• 1:03:40
  and we were trying to build a following and Now, and again, we
• 1:03:44
  would get people show up, but mostly it would just be playing
• 1:03:46
  to the sound engineer or play into the other bands or stuff
• 1:03:50
  like that. That's the reality of being a
• 1:03:52
  gigging musician and doing live music.
• 1:03:54
  So, there's not much Point unless you've built up a
• 1:03:57
  following and also less is more, by the way, just as a bit of
• 1:04:00
  advice to any aspiring musicians, your booking.
• 1:04:04
  Let's say a little mini tour around your city or something.
• 1:04:08
  Do you like one gig every two weeks or something?
• 1:04:11
  Don't do several gigs a week. Trust me, it's just not waste
• 1:04:16
  your time but yeah. Anyway, one last thing I kind of
• 1:04:22
  want to ask you about your music.
• 1:04:23
  So I always find this very interesting and I think every
• 1:04:26
  musician has a different approach to these sort of
• 1:04:29
  things. What's your approach to
• 1:04:31
  songwriting? Okay, well, this one is
• 1:04:38
  difficult because sometimes, I'll be sitting there and I'll
• 1:04:41
  get an idea about, you know, A lyric and then I'll start with
• 1:04:45
  the lyrics and then I'll add the music later.
• 1:04:47
  But then other times I'll get this idea for a riff for my head
• 1:04:50
  and then I like that. But I'm not very good at writing
• 1:04:52
  lyrics after I've got like a rhythm music down though.
• 1:04:58
  Sometimes I'll leave that up to someone else to write, like to
• 1:05:01
  help me like with ideas and with the band as well once we've got
• 1:05:06
  like a riff idea and we like started playing some music like
• 1:05:11
  all eating that she'll sit there on her phone and Writing lyrics
• 1:05:14
  and Smith playing, which is like incredible to me because I'm
• 1:05:17
  like, I can do that. But most of the time I don't, I
• 1:05:23
  don't sit there and I'm not like, well, I'm going to write a
• 1:05:25
  song now and I plan it out. It just kind of I get these
• 1:05:29
  ideas. And then I'm like, okay, the
• 1:05:31
  right, something from that, and it just kind of like comes more
• 1:05:34
  naturally rather than, like, forcing myself to write a song.
• 1:05:40
  Awesome, awesome. Yeah I can certainly relate to
• 1:05:42
  that. I used to write songs where I'd
• 1:05:47
  write all of the lyrics first and then walk into the room and
• 1:05:52
  try and fit the lyrics to the song with, you know, relative
• 1:05:55
  success. But ultimately is very difficult
• 1:05:58
  as well. You'd often have to change
• 1:05:59
  things tweak things whereas now totally different.
• 1:06:02
  I'll just sit down and if I'm in the mood to write a song, I'll
• 1:06:05
  start writing and I'll just start playing a riff.
• 1:06:08
  And then try and think of what it makes me think of, which I
• 1:06:10
  think is the most backwards difficult way to do it, but I
• 1:06:16
  don't know right now. It seems to work for me and I
• 1:06:18
  guess every musician is different like it.
• 1:06:20
  Well, I've been in bad situations.
• 1:06:22
  It's often I prefer it. When you come in with an idea
• 1:06:25
  and everyone works with it. So someone will be like, hey, I
• 1:06:28
  got this riff or I've got these particular lyrics.
• 1:06:31
  Let's see what we can do with this, or, you know, me always
• 1:06:33
  starts with that initial idea and you build around it and
• 1:06:36
  build whatever. If you want to build.
• 1:06:38
  But yeah, it's interesting is that especially if you got
• 1:06:41
  clashing song writing styles as well, it can be a little bit
• 1:06:45
  frustrating. Sometimes, I mean it's different
• 1:06:48
  for different people. I mean, obviously, like the way
• 1:06:51
  you write music is very personal to you and some people, you
• 1:06:55
  know, different things come to their head first and they get
• 1:06:59
  that down. It's like I can't write, I never
• 1:07:03
  write anything in order. Like I'll write like the chorus
• 1:07:07
  and then I'll do it. And then I'll do like the last
• 1:07:09
  verse and then the first verse and it's just it depends like
• 1:07:13
  what ideas come like at. What point I think that will
• 1:07:17
  work well in. But you know other people they
• 1:07:20
  can't write up that they think it's too you know chaotic and
• 1:07:22
  they can you know, order it as well.
• 1:07:25
  So I think that there's a hundred different ways to write
• 1:07:29
  basically the same song. Oh yeah, sure for sure actually.
• 1:07:35
  Yeah I got one more. Follow-up questions, I think.
• 1:07:37
  It's interesting. So, you've already kind of told
• 1:07:41
  us what your songwriting approaches at least just for you
• 1:07:43
  personally, but what does it look like when you're writing
• 1:07:46
  songs in death guns? So obviously writing Solo versus
• 1:07:49
  writing in a band is different. Like what's what's the kind of
• 1:07:52
  vibe? They're like who's in charge of
• 1:07:54
  what? How does the process go?
• 1:07:58
  So, it's pretty much open it. So if anyone has any ideas, but
• 1:08:02
  literally anything they just come into practice and they're
• 1:08:04
  like, oh, I've got this riff idea, or, I've got these lyrics
• 1:08:07
  or I've got this drum solo. I really want to put forward
• 1:08:10
  and, you know, everyone will kind of like, gather around and
• 1:08:13
  we'll listen. And then everyone's kind of
• 1:08:15
  like, you can see, everyone's like brains work and try to
• 1:08:17
  figure out what they can do with it and then we'll have like four
• 1:08:20
  or five different ideas as to something else, we can add to it
• 1:08:23
  and it's kind of deciding what works, and what doesn't, and
• 1:08:27
  what we can bring. Together and making, you know
• 1:08:29
  what we enjoy playing is another thing you know you don't to play
• 1:08:33
  something that you don't like because someone else suggested
• 1:08:37
  it and no one else had any ideas for it, you know.
• 1:08:42
  So usually someone comes in with an idea and we just worked that
• 1:08:46
  through like a kind of relaxed jam session rather than like
• 1:08:51
  sitting down and being like, right?
• 1:08:52
  We need to do this this and this because that comes later after
• 1:08:55
  we've got more of kind of a basic idea.
• 1:08:57
  What we want. So it's depth is definitely
• 1:09:01
  different. Excellent.
• 1:09:04
  Thank you very much for watching this.
• 1:09:06
  First part of a three-part interview, with popular stir
• 1:09:10
  until next time. Peace out.
• 1:09:12
  One love and I'll see you in the next one.