Latest / Identity at the Center / #206 - Identity Management Day 2023

Transcript

#206 - Identity Management Day 2023 · Identity at the Center

0:01
This is identity at the center. If it has anything to do with I
0:08
am this is the go-to podcast. So if you're a beginner or an
0:14
expert or anyone in between you've found your new home
0:18
welcome to Identity at the center now your host Jim
0:23
McDonald and Jeff Steadman, welcome to the entity of the
0:27
center podcast I'm Jeff and that's Jim.
0:29
Hey Joe Jim. Hey Jeff.
0:31
How are you? Good, you seemed a little bit
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like like slightly delayed there for a second.
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Well, you know, my deal like this is bad allergy season them,
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a bad allergy. Sufferer.
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By the time this episode goes live though, it should be all
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better here. It'll be April.
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Will be the beginning of Stress Awareness Month and I don't
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know. Do you have any plans for
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Stress, Awareness Month? How are you going to Handle
1:00
stress better starting in April. You know, I'll be honest.
1:05
I feel like I handle stress extremely well.
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Like I just don't feel stressed. Generally speaking, I think the
1:12
most stressful like job I ever had was working at Chili's of
1:15
five table section on a Friday night that has prepared me for
1:18
life. Like, there's no job harder than
1:20
that. I'll tell you right now.
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So shout out to all my food service peeps.
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I am totally there. I'd I totally get it.
1:26
I feel like I'm, you know, I got through that and like, okay, so
1:30
I missed a period on a sentence somewhere.
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I'm good. Well, you gotta you gotta
1:35
remember that this episode is broadcasting to thousands of
1:38
people who are like, what's this dude, talking about my life is
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stress, you know, everybody's dealing with Stratus when he
1:44
handles it differently. Yeah.
1:45
Maybe I just internalize it, I don't know.
1:47
Maybe I just, maybe it's just my laissez-faire attitude.
1:50
I don't know. I mean, I certainly, you know,
1:53
have You know, convictions to get things done and want to do a
1:58
good job and stuff like that, and obviously don't want to make
2:00
mistakes anything, but I don't know.
2:03
I feel like stress or things that if I can't control it, that
2:06
it immediately gets flushed out of my Ram and goes into a hard
2:09
disk somewhere, a tape archive, and don't even worry about it.
2:12
Yeah, I did, I did hear somebody say, one time like stress is not
2:17
actually something real. Like you can't have a bucket
2:21
full of stress, it doesn't exist in the real world.
2:24
It's all something that we Create in our mind.
2:28
However, I've got plenty of it in my mind, my plan for the
2:32
beginning of April's. I'm going to take a nice long
2:33
vacation happens to be spring break here.
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Yeah, I take a little time off that usually helps me reset.
2:40
The, the stress counter Troy quite a bit, but more on the
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identity management topic. I've been thinking a lot about,
2:48
you know, from a strategy perspective, when you're
2:50
building your IM strategy or your see, I am strategy.
2:55
She a customer. I am strategy is one of the
2:58
things that you have to do. We still go through this battle
3:02
is to define the scope of identity.
3:05
What's identity data? And what is not?
3:08
Because I think there are some things that are clearly in the
3:12
realm of identity and identity data is things like your
3:17
username and password are, you know, as black-and-white that's
3:21
you know, credential data clearly falls into the scope of
3:25
Access management, but then there's some, you know, metadata
3:29
and other areas of, you know, things that are about you that
3:34
belong in your business applications, right?
3:37
And the reason I'm bringing this up, is they feel like when
3:40
you're developing your? I am strategy.
3:43
The Challenge questions that you're going to get are, you
3:46
know. So, are you taking on this?
3:49
Are you taking on that? So like one of the things I
3:53
think from an IM strategy, Perspective, that's changed over
3:57
time. Is that, you know, it's like
4:00
centralization is just taken for granted, it's like you're moving
4:05
towards centralizing the management of identity, just
4:09
like, you know, it's taken for granted anymore that you don't
4:12
even hardly ever look at Bill versus by you just assumed by.
4:16
So now, it's like, what are you going to buyer?
4:17
You know, you're not going to build your own identity
4:21
management system, you're not going to build your own
4:23
authentication system, but 10 15.
4:25
Junior's ago, those serious question.
4:27
Should we just build this ourselves?
4:29
So I think that the same kind of question now.
4:32
Okay. Well how far are you going to
4:34
take centralization and you know, the bigger the environment
4:38
you have it comes into okay like Master data management and, you
4:43
know, coming up with a kind of a golden record of what that
4:47
person is or what that identity is is that in your scope and I
4:54
don't know From my perspective, it's not a black-and-white.
4:57
Like, here's the best practice, it's this.
5:00
It's kind of what your organization has to come up.
5:02
With is like, yeah, our identity management team is going to take
5:07
that. That's part of our strategy.
5:09
We're going to do whatever draw the line wherever you want.
5:13
I think that's really based on your organization.
5:16
What you think it should be centralized?
5:20
What is clearly a part of identity and access management
5:23
for you? And then Be able to communicate
5:26
that out. So what are your thoughts?
5:29
Well, I mean thoughts on what that was a lot, I guess really
5:34
its scope, right? That's it.
5:35
Is that a I guess that's the fundamental part that I picked
5:38
out of there is what is the scope here?
5:39
I am program, what is the scope of your strategy?
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What are you trying to solve for?
5:43
If you don't have that understood up front that you're
5:46
going to go off and start solving problems that maybe you
5:48
don't need to solve for shouldn't be self-solving pool?
5:50
Yeah, I guess I mean I see your point and I guess that you're
5:53
right and maybe I'm overthinking some of these things.
5:58
But it seems to me that when you get into, we're going to draw up
6:02
our identity management strategy.
6:04
There's always going to be people on the other side who
6:06
don't want parts of their applications.
6:09
For example, put into a centralized system taken out of
6:13
their applications management of profiles, for example, and so I
6:18
think that you have to be if to step into that area very
6:24
thoughtfully and do it in very intentionally and really think
6:27
through those issues. Is like, okay, does this belong
6:30
as part of this? You know Central, I am strategy
6:33
for us. Well, that's all.
6:36
Let me. So let me I sold it as a scope
6:39
question because the I am program manager in me or the
6:43
Cecil and me would say yes. Every application is in scope
6:47
for identity and access management to what level or you
6:51
know what the integration pattern looks like, can be a
6:54
discussion with there shouldn't be a you know wild card out
6:57
there some at that we don't know about.
7:00
So whether the application is or is integrated for Go with rij
7:04
platform or are privileged access platform or single sign
7:07
or MFA, whatever it may be. But I think that's, I think.
7:10
There are certain things that are non negotiables.
7:15
It will be managed, it will be governed, the level of the
7:18
government's, the level of the management is something that the
7:20
organization will come to an agreement with and say, okay, we
7:23
are going to take that one over because we want to make sure
7:25
that it adheres these things, or maybe it's more decentralized,
7:28
but there are still rules that that application still has the
7:30
following. So for me, that's the way I look
7:32
at it is everything is in Scope for management at least or
7:36
governance. And you can Define what that
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means. The rest of it.
7:40
Yeah, glass that comes back later.
7:43
I think I guess that is. That's kind of the Black and
7:48
White Version, right? That's the stuff that.
7:50
Yeah. Okay, I agree.
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Authentication should be centralized.
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Usually you don't run into any battles except for where it's
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like, that's going to be a very difficult integration for us.
8:01
But when it gets into authorization, entitlements
8:04
roles like, oh, is your centralized?
8:07
I am system that doesn't even exist today.
8:09
Going to take that over from our application, which is so
8:12
freaking complicated that, you know, even if you could land.
8:16
Somebody on the moon, you can't figure out how our application
8:19
works. Is that what you're saying?
8:22
So that and then die again. You didn't like all this data
8:26
that were collecting about the person.
8:27
Like how much of this are you taking over?
8:29
Are you going to start sending us the address for the person to
8:32
our application? So I think that you have to go
8:35
into that very consciously and first off you have to understand
8:38
your environment and and kind of how far you're taking it.
8:40
But you know, you have to think through those things before you
8:44
just threw your strategy out there.
8:45
Unless you have a very Receptive group that's going to help you
8:48
brainstorm and work your way through it.
8:51
But at that case, I'd say you're not in the final strategy but I
8:55
think that you need to think through those things.
8:57
Especially around identity data around authorization, how far
9:03
you're going to take your. I am strategy or I am system
9:07
tools and processes that you're going to be implementing.
9:10
Are you going to do registration for all users?
9:13
Okay, you're going to do registration.
9:14
Are you just going to create the assignment?
9:16
Union account or you going to take over everything?
9:20
Are you going to run registration for all the pieces
9:23
of data that we need to collect? Yeah, I think that's me and that
9:27
goes back to the school questions.
9:28
What's the level of integration? The scope is everything.
9:31
Should be managed at some level. The management might be none, or
9:36
the manager might be full, right.
9:38
We're going to take it over directly out of your hands and
9:40
not even doing it, you know, let you touch it anymore.
9:42
And the truth is I think most organizations fall somewhere in
9:44
between of all those different options, so be some apps.
9:46
Are disconnected, but they're still known and govern, and
9:49
have, you know, compliance things they have to adhere to
9:52
and security, whatever it may be.
9:55
And then you've got the other ones, of course, you want to
9:56
pull into a single sign-on or MFA and simplify the environment
10:00
right now. I don't think there's any,
10:01
there's many IM programs out there.
10:03
They're like, no. We don't want to put, you know,
10:05
any of I, all of our apps on Tessa.
10:07
So I think that should be like the default standpoint and then
10:10
from there, you decide, okay, what are the exceptions that
10:12
come out of it rather than trying to approach it from the
10:14
other side of it? Yeah, and I think this is an
10:18
area where, you know, Enterprise I am Workforce.
10:22
I am kind of falls into much more predictable patterns, when
10:27
you get into the customer, I am side of the house.
10:30
It's really looking at, okay? Like what are the problems that
10:32
you're trying to solve and really having to build an
10:35
approach that has to be flexible?
10:37
Based on, you know, what is the environment that you're building
10:41
into? Yeah, well customer I am is is a
10:44
totally different beast and I think, I think you and I talked
10:46
about that before where there's clearly a difference between the
10:49
two and for those that are in the know, I think they get it
10:52
but they think there's still a lot of organizations.
10:55
Maybe you aren't a similar to I am they just see.
10:56
I am as I am and not Enterprise Workforce consumer vendor
11:02
partner customer right whatever might look like for them.
11:05
There's there are very clear differentiations between the two
11:09
especially then when you start getting into the global aspect
11:12
of Right? You got, you know, gdpr versus
11:15
HIPAA versus, you know, regulations all around the world
11:18
that throw, wrenches, and into things, and makes it even that
11:21
much more difficult. Absolutely.
11:24
And that's where it's like, you can't be an expert in
11:27
everything. But, you know, when you start
11:30
to, I could pretend to be when you build that industry
11:34
knowledge on top of subject matter.
11:35
Expertise, you know, I was actually thinking we could shift
11:39
the conversation into Converse space because I think this is
11:42
This is the kind of conversations.
11:44
I love to have over a beer or coffee and just, you know, the
11:48
or the Hulk little bit more than small talk is like when you get
11:52
into talking to people about, okay, what are the kind of
11:54
problems that you're solving? That's what I love doing at
11:57
conferences, and I'm so glad they're face-to-face.
12:00
Again, obviously, sitting in sessions hearing people talk,
12:03
that's fantastic, but it says one-on-one conversations or even
12:07
small group conversations over a beer that can't be beat and I
12:12
know you and I are planning on attending the identifiers
12:15
conference and kind of bringing the the full force of the
12:19
identity of the center podcast to identify verse broadcasting,
12:23
would dozens of megabits per second, depending on where we
12:27
happen to be. Yeah.
12:29
Will be an identity versus I'm not sure yet what that was going
12:31
to look like. I think we're still sort of in
12:33
the process of getting that figured out, I think we're going
12:36
to have some sort of if it's not already live.
12:38
I think people here this some sort of discount code maybe even
12:40
for people to be able to take advantage Age of.
12:43
So maybe we'll you know let's kick down a fourth wall.
12:46
I recording us it's March 8th identity versus told you a few
12:50
months out of this point. Still cross the game.
12:52
Things set up, maybe there will be like some pre-roll ad type
12:57
thing that we do ahead of time before this part errors, and
13:00
then we'll just like, oh go point back to that, right?
13:03
Whatever that code was. And then you just, you know,
13:05
overwrite it with whatever I'm saying right now.
13:09
Yeah. And like most things on this
13:10
podcast, you know, the discount code is meant for the people.
13:14
We're not going to make any money from it.
13:16
Just like the podcast. We don't make any money from it.
13:18
We actually lose money on it because we buy fancy microphones
13:22
and headsets all the time out of our own pocket.
13:25
Yeah. Is purely for those.
13:26
This is very cool that Dennis has partnered up with it on a to
13:28
so definitely it's tongue-in-cheek but yeah
13:31
definitely something that hopefully our listeners can
13:33
benefit from you know discounts a discount which is great
13:35
especially if you folks are on the fence you know, haven't
13:37
haven't. Registered yet.
13:39
It doesn't retroactively apply as my minor settings.
13:41
So, if you haven't registered yet, find out our discount code
13:45
and then use it and then save yourself.
13:46
We'll get money and then and then what do we do with that
13:49
extra money? Jim that 20% What would what
13:53
would we do in terms of? Like if we had, you tell your
13:57
company, Oh, it's going to be this and then just kind of.
14:02
Yeah, well, look, you know, I battled hard to get these
14:05
savings for the company. I'm flying the flag of the good
14:10
corporate citizen, there's a Twitter joke in there about the
14:13
recent kerfuffle, the guy Elon Musk was talking with saving
14:18
money, but we'll get in that. All right.
14:20
I think we're getting off the rails here but yeah, hopefully
14:22
people are Denver's. It'll be May 30th to June 2nd at
14:25
the Aria Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas.
14:29
Fighter discount code wherever it is.
14:31
Maybe I'll put something on the website, I'll probably sure,
14:33
whole blasted all over Twitter and Macedon and Lincoln said
14:36
like that one's got it ready to go.
14:38
So should we talk about today's topic?
14:40
Because I feel like this has been as kind of a long intro to
14:42
get to identity management day 2023.
14:45
What do you think? I was going to say maybe that's
14:47
another episode maybe just cut it here.
14:50
Start a new episode. Yeah we could do that.
14:53
Well it's not because we've got a couple folks here that I have
14:55
been very gracious to join us. We've got actually We're going
14:58
to be talking about identity management day 2023 and that is
15:03
part of what we've been helping out with the past as well.
15:06
We've got identity to find security alliance members here.
15:08
Idsa we've got Julie Smith. She's the founding executive
15:11
director. This is her sixth appearance on
15:14
the show. We don't have jackets or
15:16
t-shirts that we hand out for that many guests but maybe we'll
15:19
send a sticker or something like that out and she's smiling here.
15:24
So. Hello Julie.
15:26
Tim Jeff, good to see you. Is always Aureus speak to you
15:31
guys. Well, we got the slide.
15:33
The cat has yet to make an appearance in any of your
15:35
appearances, so she's always on the lap.
15:38
Okay, so maybe we'll hear purring at some point or, maybe
15:41
not. But we're happy to have both of
15:43
you guys back on the show. We've also want to introduce a
15:45
new member of the team. His name is Jeff Rich, he's the
15:49
executive director for idea. Say welcome to the show.
15:52
Jeff, thank you very much, Jeff. It's a pleasure to be here.
15:55
I really appreciate it and look forward to Ocean with both Jim
15:59
and you? Yeah.
16:00
Well, other than having, you know, the most excellent Name.
16:04
What we like to do is find out really about identity, origin
16:07
stories for people. So how do they get into the
16:09
identity World? Julie has been on again.
16:11
This is our sixth appearance. I will Point people back to
16:14
episode 52. I think it was a 57, actually,
16:18
that's what it was. That was your first episode, so
16:20
you can go back and listen to Julie's origin story.
16:22
But Jeff, it's your first time being on the show.
16:24
How did you get into identity and access management?
16:27
Is that something that You chose or did it choose you?
16:32
It was really a combination of both vectors there.
16:36
I've been in security, both physical security doing a little
16:40
work for law enforcement and then focusing mainly and
16:43
information security that alone for over 45 years and identity,
16:50
and identity management has been part of security from the
16:52
beginning. I think there are many people
16:54
that are just now beginning to recognize that that security has
16:58
to have. I Identity within it, you can't
17:00
separate the two. So I've always had identity
17:03
attack or what I'm doing with security and over the past few
17:06
years, I've recognized more and more.
17:08
When you look at data breaches ransomware and everything else,
17:11
it's going on that hits the news, all I get are two related
17:14
so identity at did that only its found me all along but now it's
17:19
calling me. I feel like we've been shouting
17:21
it from the rooftops people who are been sort of like a Daniel a
17:24
Firs. I feel like for most of my
17:26
professional career Jim's as well as I couid.
17:28
I know how important it is but it seems like spend the last
17:31
couple of years that that message is really started.
17:33
Taking hold and I don't know if I want to credit zero trust or
17:36
not Julie's playing yourself is like it was all the idea say
17:39
baby identity management days. Yeah it's definitely definitely
17:44
has I think growing in importance?
17:47
Speaking of the idea of say Julie for folks who aren't
17:50
familiar with that organization, give us like the 30m.
17:53
And we've talked about the past that.
17:54
Yeah, give us the kind of the overview of what the idsa is.
17:58
Yeah, I think you guys just touched on exactly why we why we
18:02
exist and it's all about helping Security leaders and
18:08
organizations be identity smart and and it really is bringing
18:11
together this identity and seek the to Identity or the identity
18:16
and security domains and putting a focus there.
18:20
So the idsa identity to find security Lyons is a non-profit.
18:24
We provide thought, leadership, expertise, and practical
18:27
guidance. On securing digital identities
18:31
and we do that through vendor-neutral research,
18:34
education through webinars and big events like identity
18:37
management day. What we're going to talk about
18:39
today and then best practices perspectives recommendations on
18:47
how Security leaders can be identities are.
18:49
So I, when I was introducing you, I mention that your the
18:52
founding executive director, so my understanding is you're going
18:56
to be retiring getting the drains.
18:58
Over to Jeff. What is, you know?
19:01
What's that like, right? Being kind of the first in that
19:04
role and seeing this Rose for your organization of the last
19:07
couple years, you know, what do you think?
19:09
You're, you know, you're I guess what?
19:11
Your favorite accomplishment during that time?
19:14
That's a good one. It has been an incredibly
19:17
rewarding. Well, I'll call it really 6
19:19
years. So I've been involved in the
19:21
idsa going back to my time at Optive.
19:25
I kind of think of Optive is incubating.
19:27
The eye. Entity to find security
19:29
Alliance. It was started by Ping.
19:30
Identity optic, got involved, we sort of grew it underneath the
19:34
optimum Briella but then spun it out as a standalone entity about
19:38
four years ago. So there's a lot of
19:40
accomplishments 2.2 kind of going from this, you know, small
19:46
somewhat unknown to hopefully, a much bigger and and more
19:49
well-known organization. But I think the thing that has
19:53
put us on the, on the map is identity management day, which
19:56
is coming up here on this. Second Tuesday of April, happens
20:01
every year this will be the third annual and this year to
20:03
have happens to be April 11th. So I'm excited to talk more
20:09
about that. But I would say, you know, just
20:11
the fact that our organization, our research is getting picked
20:17
up in quoted and referenced. In ways that I don't even know
20:22
about it. Just happens to pop onto my
20:24
radar every day. I think that's one of the
20:26
biggest accomplishments. Is that we have gotten to that
20:30
point? It's always fun when you go
20:32
viral, right? I guess we're going to reasons
20:35
or are good things Trail. What's next for you?
20:39
Get question. I think I my plan right now is
20:47
take some time off between now and the end of the year, spend
20:50
some time as we've talked about before, right?
20:53
I like golf, I like the cycle. I like to enjoy everything that
20:56
is the Colorado Mountain. So spend time with friends and
21:01
family and Significant other and travel and you know, just kind
21:05
of enjoy life for a while and then figure out what the next
21:07
chapter holds for me. I'm not exactly sure what that
21:10
is. And I don't want to don't want
21:12
to Define it while I'm still in the process of kind of wrapping
21:14
up this part of, for this chapter in my life.
21:17
So, I'll spend the next six months or eight months or so,
21:21
trying to figure that out and it starts off to find exactly.
21:25
It starts off with a week in Hawaii, where I've never been.
21:29
So, I'm super excited about that.
21:32
So as soon as identity management day wraps up, I'm on
21:35
a plane. And out of here, I feel like
21:39
running out, right? It's like, all right, well, you
21:42
know, leave leave the meeting or the webinar, right?
21:44
And on the 11th and the next thing you know, it's like all
21:47
you see is like a puff of smoke and Julie's gone.
21:50
She's like, you're in a black car on her way to the airport.
21:55
Exactly was very cool. Yeah, I've never been, it's
21:58
gonna be. Yeah.
21:58
It's going to be awesome. Well and where I was going to go
22:01
deaf I admitted that to cut you off there, where I was gonna go,
22:04
is, I'm able to do that. And I'm able to leave in a, you
22:08
know, puff of smoke because I'm super excited about Jeff.
22:13
Rich taking over the reins and leading us into the future.
22:16
And I've every every confidence that he's going to do great
22:19
things for the idsa going forward.
22:21
So just in the time that he and I have spent together in the
22:24
transition mode over the last month or so, yeah, I'm ready to
22:28
run and and and hand it off to Jeff.
22:31
And I've Every confidence that he's gonna do an amazing job.
22:34
So Jeff, what is, I guess, what is Julie leaving you with, you
22:38
know? Is there like a to-do list is
22:40
there is the autoresponder already on?
22:44
You know, please. You know, please forward to
22:46
Jeff, you know, all questions about this.
22:48
Yeah, whatever. Maybe like, let's pretend she's
22:50
not here, right? Everything's going to be her
22:52
fault for the next year or so, right, all things, I think
22:55
that's tradition whenever you leave my business always stuff.
22:59
Yes. All is the last person's fault
23:00
that we got to spend some Fixing it.
23:02
Not that Julie, you know, we love Julie but what are the
23:05
things that, you know, do you see on your plate coming up here
23:07
in the next like, out of the Chute?
23:09
Friday, I say, well, first of all, I want to say two things
23:13
one. My number one objective is
23:15
living up to the expectation. She just said in that
23:18
transitional introduction, left me here.
23:22
And no, she's not leaving it to do list.
23:25
That, that doesn't mean there aren't things to do here without
23:27
question. My list is overflowing, I Have
23:31
to hand it to Julie. I'm going to take this public
23:34
opportunity. He won't be the last time I do
23:35
it. I do not know how she's done
23:37
this for the past few years. I've been here a month working
23:41
with her and with two of us, I'm thinking we can't get this all
23:44
done. Then I realize a month ago, she
23:45
was doing it herself. So amazing job by Julia to to
23:50
build this up and get it to where it is.
23:54
I think we are at a point now where idsa has grown from a core
23:59
of identity providers and security providers to benefit
24:04
the the community at large. I think now it's time to start
24:08
expanding into the community large and getting more
24:10
contributions from those not only that create identities and
24:15
provide them and tools for them. But also the custodians of
24:17
identities, which are a lot of the large Enterprises that may
24:22
or may not have a good. I am program in place yet as an
24:26
example and can benefit from learning about what the
24:30
Professionals in idsa have to offer and thought leadership and
24:35
start providing some of their own.
24:37
Let me pad Julie on the back now.
24:38
So, I think that one thing she brought to the table was amazing
24:43
organizational skills or Grew idsa From nothing to where it is
24:48
today and what, whatever it becomes would have never been
24:52
had she not done that. but what I also always thought about
24:56
Julie was that She's an identity person, she gets it.
25:02
And I'm sure you would not be in this role if you didn't get it.
25:05
So, Jeff as your inauguration into the identity at the center
25:10
podcast, I'm going to ask you one of the tough questions that
25:13
we've we've repeated on this podcast many times which is, you
25:19
know, getting into the subject matter.
25:21
What's the difference between I am and digital identity because
25:26
Let me Give a Little Bit of background on that question.
25:29
To me it almost felt like digital identity as a term was
25:35
replacing identity and access management.
25:37
We're talking about this industry of digital identity and
25:41
so we we posed that question 2nd handle who is the organizer of
25:46
they didn't reverse conference and was the president of the ID
25:49
Pro that very question. You said that that's going to
25:54
take me more than what we can fitted to this episode.
25:57
So what Jeff and I Did was we put together an episode is one
26:00
of our most downloaded popular episodes.
26:02
And we asked a bunch of identity gurus.
26:08
What's the difference between digital identity and identity
26:12
and access management? I'm not as a test to you but to
26:16
you, what is the difference? We could spend the next month
26:20
talking about this, but but I think I have what I consider the
26:24
difference because I am is more of the overall umbrella.
26:28
Ella that has a combination of whether it's a tools you use or
26:33
your policies or procedures and everything around.
26:37
Obtaining identity, issuing identity, access controls.
26:41
And managing that whole sphere together to me, digital identity
26:45
is different because a digital identity is something that every
26:50
one of us creates, whenever we do something in a digital Realm,
26:55
And that includes actions access and in some cases, like, what
27:01
websites, you visit, whatever Trails you leave.
27:05
That becomes in my mind, part of your digital identity and it's
27:09
not traditionally in my mind part of what has been accepted
27:13
as identity and X identity access management.
27:16
I am So, how different is that from?
27:19
What you've been hearing from all the a?
27:21
No I think that's a good. We've heard the exact opposite.
27:24
We've heard exactly what you just said, you know, there's I
27:27
can be convinced as your identity is the thumbprint.
27:30
You know, you go and the crime scene has these fingerprints all
27:34
over it and as the digital identities, right?
27:37
That you leave behind, I think that was its kind of the analogy
27:40
for you the trail, but I've also heard people say, digital
27:44
identity is the umbrella identity access management is
27:47
one of The the functions within that I am umbrella.
27:54
So I mean I think everybody ultimately I think it's Did you
28:01
just terms right? And what, what those terms,
28:03
ultimately become our, how people intended for them to be
28:07
understood when they use those terms?
28:09
And so I kind of think the pissed definition that we got
28:13
was from Alec fry goes by the the moniker for identity.
28:18
Who said it's it's like football.
28:20
Football is a ball but it's also this concept of a sport.
28:24
That's an international phenomenon and it all depends on
28:29
what you meant when you when you use the term football, what did
28:33
you mean? And that's digital identity.
28:36
Jeff, you have any thoughts? Are you talking to your Jeff?
28:41
Yes, I'm gonna give it to me or not enough to many gifs.
28:47
Well, Jeff and I have already decided, we're going to start
28:49
our own podcast is me. Just just Jeff's talking to each
28:51
other and you can only be on the show if your name is Jeff.
28:54
So that's how that's going to roll.
28:56
Maybe one of the younger, two year of study area.
29:00
I'm with Alec on this one, you know, I think this is I think
29:03
that's how I let off my my description as well as I think
29:06
the context of the question matters, who were you talking to
29:11
in what context? Because digital identity?
29:15
Access management? All four words mean different
29:17
things to different people spending all your talking to and
29:20
when you combine them now you've got a bunch of different
29:22
options. Where Jim you might say, okay,
29:24
well, it means this to you. Jim and what I meant when I talk
29:27
to someone else, you know, my wife or my daughter Dog.
29:31
Right? It means different things to
29:32
them or doesn't mean anything at all, right, could be that as
29:34
well. So I think I think this, it's
29:37
whatever it needs to be, but I think you have to recognize that
29:42
and tailor your question and your conversation to poor,
29:45
you're talking to and what is the context that that those
29:50
terms mean to them? And make sure that you're you're
29:53
speaking the language in a common in a common vernacular.
29:57
Julie do you have your own take on this or you with Alex fry as
30:00
well? We talked about it may be the
30:02
last time I was on and I'm with Alex, I think digital identity
30:07
is the thing and identity and access management is, you know,
30:12
the broader umbrella of how you manage it, what's the life
30:16
cycle? What are all the attributes that
30:18
need to be defined about it but digital identity is the thing
30:22
that we care the most about because it's the thing that's
30:24
getting compromised, the most. So Jeff Ridge.
30:28
Where is identity and access management heading.
30:30
Well, it's heading at high speed right down the road, right down
30:35
the middle of the road. And, and I say that, because for
30:39
those, that don't know yet. If you haven't heard about, you
30:42
know, data, breaches ransomware, anything else going on that bad
30:47
on the internet? You know the dark web all of
30:51
those things end up having or result in identity compromises.
30:57
So because of all that I think identity and access Management
31:01
is heading towards a little more standardization.
31:05
I believe we, probably as much as I get the, it's all about
31:09
context. I think we need to start to
31:10
finding the context and saying, here's what identity means.
31:15
And here's a value, we can start associating with it.
31:18
I'm going to give you a real quick example.
31:20
If you take a look at payment card information, there is an
31:25
identity aspect to that. And when it's compromised, even
31:29
though it may take a while, There is a remedy to it
31:32
Healthcare information. If you have a given diagnosis
31:35
for a disease, when that's compromised, how do you remedy
31:39
that? You can't.
31:42
So the value of that Healthcare information, on the big scale is
31:46
probably a little more value than a little higher rather than
31:49
the value of the payment card information.
31:52
And if you expand that to all scopes of digital identity and
31:56
identity and access management, I think it becomes a matter of
31:59
defining the East stratifying different levels of value of
32:04
identities. And because of that and
32:06
associating that with value of resources, they may be
32:09
accessing. You get into concept of things
32:11
at the highest value. Maybe that's a really good
32:14
opportunity to implement something like zero trust.
32:18
When you're down at the lower end of value, maybe it's not
32:20
worth the effort and time to do something like zero trust, but
32:23
you still need some form of identification of the vacation.
32:26
You know, those really good point and I think talk to your
32:30
you're referencing kind of a risk based model as well.
32:34
Jeff and I Jeff Stedman and I like to talk about this podcast
32:38
has kind of a time capsule for the I am industry.
32:42
We've had a lot of people who've been in this industry for a long
32:45
time on the Podcast. Those episodes will always be
32:48
out there for people to enjoy and to research.
32:53
What would, what were they thinking back in the early, you
32:57
know, back in 2019 or 2020. So what I'm going to ask you for
33:02
is any bold predictions that you want to throw into the time
33:06
capsule. So I have a prediction that some
33:09
people may think of his bold. Some people may think it's
33:12
impossible, but I believe that we have a future coming Forest
33:17
where each of us are going to be in complete control of our own
33:21
identity. Now, that doesn't mean it's
33:24
controlled the way you want it to be.
33:26
Because each of us, our control are in control of their own
33:28
health, our own weight, and everything else, but that
33:30
doesn't always work out the way we want.
33:32
However, more and more in you're seeing privacy legislation start
33:36
to drive. Rises towards this identity
33:39
information from me should be controlled by me.
33:43
I may give you access to it and I may determine how you can use
33:46
it and I may revoke that access to it but it's still my identity
33:51
and I'm going to control it in the u.s. especially that's not
33:54
happening right now. We're nowhere near it and I
33:57
believe my Bowl prediction is down the road, that is what
34:00
we're going to have to do. Otherwise individuals will have
34:03
no control over being able to say who they are, how they get.
34:07
Credit, how they get access to anything, how they go to the
34:10
movies, all of that going to be potentially compromised when
34:14
they don't have appropriate control over their identity.
34:16
So given that line of thinking I would expect at some point,
34:19
we'll start to see some things along those lines and idsa
34:22
content, will we see a thing like that?
34:24
Maybe I got a management day or there any sessions that kind of
34:27
touch on that cell Sovereign or decentralised?
34:29
Are things coming up or is that still in the?
34:31
So the Q because they know it's a it's a very meaty topic and I
34:34
think there's a lot of confusion still in the space.
34:37
Of blockchain For Better or Worse.
34:40
Haven't been equated with decentralized identity again,
34:43
for better or worse. Where do you think?
34:46
Where do you see idsa? Tackling some of those, those
34:48
topics? Well, I think you're going to
34:50
see topics that that touch on privacy and privacy ends up,
34:54
being the driver right now. For how that level of self
34:58
control comes up now, you did ask for a bold prediction and
35:01
I'm assuming you were thinking more than a month from now which
35:04
is why I don't think you're necessarily going to see the
35:06
solutions, right? A way for it.
35:08
But I do believe you're going to see discussions about it because
35:12
when you discuss privacy and importance of that and what
35:15
happens when a leak occurs, you're going to see some
35:19
solutions that are not talking that.
35:20
Start talking about how an individual can exercise more
35:23
control. However, I think that's going to
35:26
have to happen in concert with governments, whether it's with
35:29
the local state, or federal level.
35:31
And dare, say even International standard.
35:34
That's very bold at some point for that.
35:38
And that is a slow move that part too slow moving train.
35:42
So this I am that's going at high speed on this end of the
35:47
road in the future. It's going to crash into that
35:50
slow-moving train that our government regulations.
35:53
And I would like to think what comes out of that is a good
35:57
Common Sense approach to allowing individuals to be able
36:00
to take control of their identity.
36:02
Do I think it's going to happen this year?
36:03
No, but I do think you'll see some topics that can At least
36:08
touch on it at idea at and identity management day.
36:11
I think it's interesting because it is something that seems to
36:13
come up almost every conference. I've been to for the last year
36:18
and every conference that I'm attending this year has some
36:20
sort of track or topic, right? Even multiple kind of
36:24
presentations on this concept of self Sovereign status and being
36:30
able to part and parcel out portions of of your personal
36:34
data out and how it should be used.
36:36
And I think it's Sure if it will be solved in the next 5 years or
36:40
10 years because they think there's a lot of questions of
36:43
where will this be built? Who's going to administrate it?
36:46
You know how easy is going to be used forever to use?
36:48
This is going to create a second class experience for other
36:51
people who aren't on you know that platform right?
36:54
Those sorts of things. So be interesting to see how it
36:56
kind of plays out. You mentioned identity
36:58
management date. I know Julie this is sort of
37:00
been your baby for the last couple of years now and I guess
37:06
from a Attendee perspective, what should I be expecting on
37:11
that day? And again, it's April 11th, the
37:13
second Tuesday of April and we'll have a link on our show
37:15
notes as well for people to check out and get more
37:17
information for it. But I guess who is that?
37:20
Who is identity management de designed for?
37:24
Yeah, good question. So I would say it's designed for
37:26
everybody. You know, when we started it
37:29
three years ago, the idea came from one of my member companies
37:34
at the time or Our member companies at the time.
37:38
And with the idea that, you know, we need to put, we need to
37:42
have a day just focused on this topic of securing, digital
37:45
identities. And, and identity security is
37:47
everybody's responsibility, right?
37:49
Whether you're an organization protecting the identities of
37:52
your customers and consumers, or whether you're an individual who
37:56
has an employee identity, you need to protect, maybe you're
38:00
working as a consultant. So you're a partner to an
38:03
organization, you need to protect that digital Identity,
38:05
or even your own personal digital.
38:07
Leti right there. So everybody, everybody needs to
38:10
be involved and do things that help to protect your identity.
38:16
So individuals, you know, using strong passwords not reusing
38:20
passwords, you know, not doing some of the, the silly things
38:24
that I think that we all do that, you know, have a tendency
38:29
to cause problems with our own personal dual identities but
38:32
also helping organizations. Focus on the thing, the action
38:35
items that they can the actions they can.
38:38
Take to protect the digital identities, they have underneath
38:41
their responsibility. So I'd say it's everybody.
38:44
We partnered with the national cyber security Alliance to focus
38:48
on the individual side and the small business side and the idsa
38:51
is very much focused on the Enterprise, in the organization,
38:56
bigger organization side of things.
38:57
So, it's for everybody and what, you know, you mentioned there
39:03
are asked the question about what to expect.
39:04
I would say there's really two two main aspects Stu identity
39:09
management day April 11th and one is the participation online.
39:14
So the sharing of best practices amongst organizations we have
39:19
hashtags, ID MGMT day 2023, as one be identities.
39:24
Part is another and we're encouraging organizations and
39:28
individuals to share best practices online through
39:33
Twitter. Through Linkedin, sending out
39:36
emails, writing blogs, Those kind of things and just sort of
39:39
that online presence is one main aspect of identity management
39:42
day. And then the second big element
39:46
of identity management day is a virtual conference, which this
39:50
is the second year and it's bigger than it was last year.
39:53
So that's that's always good. It happens from 9 a.m. till 4:30
40:00
eastern time. So I know the for the folks on
40:03
the on the East Coast or 9:00 a.m. to 4:30 I guess it on the
40:07
on the He's on the west coast, it's a little bit early but
40:11
hopefully we'll have all the sessions recorded so they can go
40:15
back and watch the sessions. They might have missed, but
40:18
registration is free. Will have some raffle prizes.
40:22
We've got six sessions that are presented by industry
40:25
organizations. The national cyber security
40:27
Alliance ID Pro open ID Foundation, Fido and sisya.
40:32
We have five sponsored sessions presented by sponsor
40:36
organizations. We'll have opportunities to
40:39
engage with the exhibitors but also engage with each other
40:43
through one-on-one. Networking tortoise is kind of
40:45
similar to speed dating and then have a lounge for people to hang
40:49
out during breaks where they can engage with other participants
40:52
in the conference. So, you know, one one way to get
40:56
involved right out of the gate. It's become a champion.
40:58
You can go to our website, identity management, day.org and
41:03
sign up as a champion, I know, Jeff and Jenn you guys are
41:06
listed there. And then we'll list you on the
41:10
website. You get an exclusive Champion
41:12
tool kit with all kinds of resources that you can use to
41:14
engage with and educate customers employees and
41:18
communities. And so the champion program is
41:20
not just for individuals but also for organization as well,
41:23
who are focused on this topic of securing digital identity.
41:28
So hopefully that kind of gives you a range of things and ways
41:33
to get involved in what to expect.
41:35
It's almost like you've done this before and you've been That
41:38
question before. Very well, presented, April
41:41
11th, it's an all-day Affair. I love the fact that it's on,
41:45
you know, on demand afterwards because I think like, most
41:48
people writing, you have a virtual conference.
41:50
Sometimes, you do end up multitasking and get pulled away
41:52
and everything's, and being able to go back and look at stuff
41:55
that you were that you were able to get to during the day.
41:57
Makes it super flexible. So, I'm super excited for it.
42:00
I typically engage in some of the conversations that are out
42:02
there, so don't be surprised. You see me poking?
42:06
My head in and out of different things and throwing comments out
42:09
there. The identity management
42:11
champions list is impressive. I'm looking at it right now and
42:14
it's, it's a who's who of, you know, Heavy Hitters in the
42:18
identities. They see, these are all just
42:19
individuals that are, you know, behind this.
42:22
This is this isn't really a, you know, pay-for-play type thing
42:26
from from their perspective, right?
42:28
I didn't pay anything to get list is like, hey, I support
42:30
this obviously Jim and I have been supporting us for a few
42:33
years. Now, right, since Inception
42:34
stuff like that, I think it's a great opportunity to get the
42:36
identity management. The street together and have
42:40
conversations and drive awareness and really hear from
42:43
folks out there and be part of the conversation, which is
42:47
great. Because I did a lot of times you
42:49
get conferences or other webinars and things like that,
42:51
you're a, you're a watcher, you're not a participant and I
42:56
think that's, that's one of things.
42:57
I think it really kind of sets apart from other ones that are
42:59
out there. Okay?
43:01
So I know you guys have been super generous with your time
43:04
and I want to make sure that, you know, we let you get on with
43:06
your days and Evenings, I'm sure.
43:09
Julie. You're probably thinking about
43:10
like, you know, what am I going to pack for Hawaii?
43:12
Jeff your pipe, looking at your laundry list of things like, I
43:14
want to get this done but what I want to leave us with is a
43:18
lighter note and we're kind of talking before the show here.
43:22
And I think the one that we settled on was this is a
43:24
question that we're going to ask for all for everyone's answer.
43:27
On is what's an underrated TV show or movie that more people
43:32
should be checking out. So, for example, if I hear Game
43:35
of Thrones, I'm going to veto that and say everybody, all
43:37
right? Knows about Game of Thrones
43:39
whether you like it or not, is irrelevant people have heard
43:41
about it. So what I'm looking for are one
43:43
things that I can add to what am I streaming cues?
43:45
Because I'm always on the hunt for something new but maybe some
43:47
folks are, you know, they like hey I really enjoyed this and I
43:50
wish more people knew about it so that I can have more
43:53
conversations about it with other people.
43:55
Jim, I'm going to start with you and then we'll go to Jeff and to
43:58
Julie And your start with me and I'm going to like, give the
44:03
alternate answer because I really don't.
44:05
Nothing came to mind, our podcast guy or ebooks.
44:10
And so what I'm going to do is throw a pod cast out there.
44:14
Hope that doesn't offend anybody.
44:16
But the podcast I've been listening to lately is called
44:18
hidden brain. It's a, I think it was an NPR
44:22
show. I think is how I picked up on
44:23
it. Anyway, this guy Shankar he
44:26
it's, it's like the psychology of the human.
44:29
My mind and how the human mind works.
44:31
And for example there's a whole series on happiness research
44:35
that they've done, they called it happiness 2.0 which is like
44:39
what are the things that we do in our lives or happen in our
44:42
lives? That make us more joyful, going
44:45
through life and there's two reasons why those do it.
44:49
One is like I think this is true for anybody.
44:51
Like if you listen to his podcast you will enjoy it.
44:55
I'm you've got my personal guarantee on that, enjoy it.
44:59
You'll enjoy it. If you don't listen to it, you
45:02
will enjoy it. But, you know, that's number
45:05
one. Number two is like, I'll listen
45:07
to it. This kite Shankar.
45:10
You know, he's super well-spoken and I feel like after I listened
45:15
to his show, if I go into a meeting my vocabulary, expands
45:20
temporarily. So, I mean, that's part of the
45:22
reason why I listen to it is like he's so well-spoken.
45:25
I feel like that kind of rubs off on me a little bit and take
45:28
me from like three on a scale of 1 to 10 to maybe a 4.
45:34
So there you go. My answer is hidden rain
45:36
podcast, it's a 33 percent Improvement, that's that's what
45:40
number is that. Anybody would stay you gotta on
45:41
a market that right? Jeff, what about yourself?
45:44
What is an underrated TV show or movie?
45:46
Or I guess podcast, or something that more, I'm not going to go
45:49
with podcast but I do support the hidden brain.
45:52
That's a great show. So the underrated show that I
45:55
have in mind, it's streaming on Prime's called 3 pie.
45:59
Ines and it's something. I think not enough people know
46:02
about if you are into a good murder detective, but it's not a
46:08
either. A gruesome or real bloody or
46:10
every episode murder solved in 44 minutes.
46:14
It's not that kind of show it's more slow-paced and it takes
46:19
place in Quebec Canada. And I didn't know if they were
46:25
to. So I had to say that and it
46:28
deals more with the eccentricities of a town and
46:32
they're somewhat rural. So they all know each other,
46:34
maybe a bit too well. But there are some deaths that
46:38
occur and everything kind of intertwined.
46:40
And I think it's great. I'm really hoping it gets picked
46:42
up for a second season. What's it called?
46:44
Again, three Pines, three Pines, three Pines, I video Amazon
46:49
Prime video. Okay, yep.
46:51
Julie about yourself. I think this is a little bit
46:58
obscure but maybe not so if anybody that's a front of a fan
47:01
of Bryan Cranston of that Breaking Bad.
47:04
Same there's a it's in season 2 now but there's a TV show on
47:10
Showtime called your honor and it is fantastic.
47:16
I am you know sitting on the edge of my seat, every Friday,
47:20
just waiting for it to drop the next episode.
47:22
Drop So it's set in New Orleans which you don't usually see very
47:27
often and he's a judge that has some issues and had some
47:32
challenges in his life. And yeah, I've really I really
47:35
enjoyed it. So I know you guys are shaking
47:38
your head, so maybe it's something that you've watched.
47:40
But yeah, that's my. That's my favorite right now.
47:43
My wife is into it and I haven't seen any of them yet, but I love
47:47
Bryan, Cranston. I think he's a so talented and
47:49
so good at what he does. I mean, he's got such range to
47:52
between comedy and drama and sort of everything in between a
47:56
just I'm in on that one. That's that's got to go on my
47:59
list for sure. You know, I'm sitting here
48:02
struggling because I actually have three that's that I was
48:05
want to bring up. This is so there's one.
48:08
I'll go real quickly. First one is a show called God's
48:11
favorite idiot. It's on Netflix, and it's a
48:14
comedy with Ben Falcone, and Melissa McCarthy.
48:18
I just discovered this, like, literally last weekend's Doom
48:21
scrolling for Netflix. Trying to find something that my
48:23
wife and I could agree on to watch and flipped it on its, I
48:26
guess 30 minutes stupid comedy about basically, the guy gets
48:31
struck by lightning and he supposed to be sort of the
48:35
messenger of God and deliver the world, and it's funny and it's
48:40
stupid. And it's just a good solid, 30
48:42
minutes. So that's that's one I think
48:45
that people should probably check out.
48:47
I love the Bennington Show on Sirius XM radio.
48:50
So for folks who know me, I will reference them every once in a
48:53
while but they do a Daily Show on the satellite radio.
48:57
Now streaming kind of platform but I totally think it's such a
49:01
great show father-daughter and just essentially gifted comedian
49:04
and just so fun to kind of listen to its, I always have a
49:08
good time. Listen to those guys.
49:09
I if I ever did a personal podcast, it would probably be
49:13
Something like that show. I don't think I can do it as
49:16
good for sure. But will be that sort of
49:19
approach. Should I do my third or just
49:23
leave it there? Yeah.
49:25
I see the three. The other one is, this is
49:26
something I've gotten into recently, is it streaming
49:29
Network called Dropout? It's by college humor and they
49:32
do a lot of, like, sketch comedy and things like that.
49:34
It's super cheap. It's like 50 bucks for a year,
49:37
and they have this show called a lot of cop shows, but one is
49:41
called Game Changer, which basically the rules of the game
49:44
change every time every episode and the player is have to figure
49:48
out what the rules of the game are to win.
49:51
So they're throwing to a bunch of different scenarios and
49:55
things you can find on YouTube as well, if you want to find
49:57
clips and stuff like that but they don't know what the rules
49:59
are when the game starts and they have to figure out along
50:02
the way and it just it's just a weird fun show or you can easily
50:07
spend, you know, half an hour is, as a Time killer.
50:09
So there's I cheated and went with three so it's hopefully
50:13
that would hopefully isn't quite as as intense, as well as it
50:17
does squid game, right? Was that?
50:19
Well, we know yesterday was great.
50:21
Rules of the game you either but the consequences were pretty
50:25
dire. Yeah.
50:27
Consequences definitely not as dire but very entertaining and
50:32
fun and stupid at all. The same time, right up my
50:34
alley. So, I enjoy it.
50:36
If you've checked it out, feel free to drop.
50:38
But you know what? A LinkedIn.
50:39
I'd love to chat about it. I just don't know anybody else
50:40
has seen it, and I enjoy it, so that's me.
50:45
All right, let's go ahead and leave it there for this week.
50:48
Jeff Julie, you know, always. She ate the time you spent
50:52
Julie. Congratulations on everything
50:55
really that you've accomplished over the last several years.
50:56
With idea, say congratulations on.
50:58
Going to Hawaii. And you know, I'm going to be
51:03
living vicariously through you when you get back.
51:05
I would love to understand how it went for you because that's
51:09
on my bucket list is to get out to Hawaii at some point and in
51:12
recent data will help me plan that trip Jeff.
51:17
I'm looking forward to maybe having more conversations with
51:19
you as things kind of progressed with idsa and You both are.
51:22
I don'ti management Day this year.
51:23
So, and if we see each other at conferences, fist-bumps, Julie,
51:27
and I met at a conference, it was RSA, I think last year it
51:30
was here before it was like on the corner in San Francisco.
51:33
There is hope. Yeah, so hopefully you Jeff.
51:38
You and I will get you the same thing here at an upcoming
51:39
conference, and you can Tory, official identity of Center fist
51:42
bump. We'll have links in our show
51:44
notes for both Jeff and Julie can connect with them on
51:46
LinkedIn. You can find out more about the
51:48
identity defying security, Alliance the ideas, Say, IDs
51:52
Alliance dot-org. Also have links to identity
51:55
management day, identity management data org.
51:58
And of course you can find us on the web idac podcast.com we're
52:02
on Twitter at ideas, the podcast run, Mastodon even idac podcast
52:07
at infosec got exchanged and of course you can always connect
52:10
with Jim and I we began actually get a lot of really cool
52:13
messages and comments and individually to us through
52:17
listeners and stuff like that. So feel free to drop a note.
52:19
Always happy to engage in talking, it gives us ideas.
52:21
Four things we want to bring up on future shows.
52:23
So don't forget that like And subscribe button.
52:25
That's the best way that you can help us out and I'm going to
52:28
leave it there. Thanks everyone for listening
52:31
and we'll talk with everyone in the next one.
52:34
You've been listening to Identity at the center.
52:38
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