Latest / The Bechdel Cast / She's the Man with Samee Junio

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She's the Man with Samee Junio · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the Beckel Cast, the questions asked if movies have
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: changing it with the Bechdel Cast. Hello, and welcome to
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante. My name
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: is Jamie Loftus. I'm sick today. You're sick. Everyone should
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: feel so bad for me. I feel so bad wondering
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: the streets, just getting passed by to be like, are
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: you sick? I'm so sorry. So we are the Bechtel Cast.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: We talk about the portrayal of women in movies. We
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: use the Bechtel test as a test that just initiates
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: a larger conversation for us, a larger conversation about the
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: representation of women in cinema. The Bechtel test is a
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: test that requires that two female identifying characters in a
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: movie have names, they speak to each other, and their
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: conversation is not about a man. Yes, Hey, let's demo it.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Let's Caitlyn. Hey, Jamie, have you ever tried pedal light?
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: I don't think that I have. I've had two jugs.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: They only sell them in jug form. For some reason.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: We've had two jugs of po Light in the past
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: twenty four hours, and I started very anti pedia Light,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: But like in movies, the PDA light wore me down
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: and I'm fully in love with Polite. It's my beverage
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: of choice, replacing Mike's hard lemonade. Even Okay, now it
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: doesn't pass anymore because you brought Mike into the conversation.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Unbelievable might be. Yeah, I think that pel It's my
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: new chaser. Okay, good, Yeah, just take a swig of
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: vodka and a swing of Pedi Light. You're basically sober now.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Ped Light is like a children's beverage, yes, but you
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: also drink it when you're sick. It's supposed to keep
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: you hydrated and and safe. You know what other occasion
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: you might need to be hydrated, like playing soccer. See
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: where this is going. For example, you did that this morning.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: I did that this morning. It was fun my team
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: one really yeah, sorry, that was that's exciting, thank you? Yeah.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: And also soccer related is the movie we're talking about today, Well,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: you're talking about She's the Man. This is like our
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: second soccer movie and our second Shakespeare adaptation we've discussed recently. Yes, indeed,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: observation campaigned second movie recently, also by the screenwriting duo
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: of Karen McCullough and Kirsten Smith. Oh I didn't know that. Yes, wow, oh, yes,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: they're you know they're the Shakespeare gals? Right? Is that
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: what their podcast is called? Just kidding? So to join
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: us in our discussion about the movie, our guest today
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: is the producer of Historical Roast and Fictional Roast, the
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: producer of many podcasts including Forever thirty five and Mother
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: May I Sleep With Sammy Junia. Hello, it's me, my
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: dear friends, man, it's me reboot Sammy one. Have you
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: tried the Electrolyte. They've rebranded Polite to be electro l
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: y t, Electrolyte or Electrolyte, and they sell it at
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: seven elevens and I've consumed crates of it. It's great. Well, yeah,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: so you don't have to buy a jug. You can
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: just buy it. I was feeling the stigma of the
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: plighted jug because that's just like carrying it outside and
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Saturday night and everyone's like, she's very sick because she's demented.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: If I'm gonna buy it. Everyge hydrated, be careful, she's
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: demented and very hydrated. So Sammy, tell us about your relationship,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: your history with She's the Man. Well, I've seen it
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: maybe thirteen times in the past day. I was like
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: once every two hours watching it right now, it's in
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Google glass. I watched a lot when I was younger,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: and I just I think this movie is so so
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: flawless and perfect and wonderful and magical. And that's a
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: that's a relationship. I'm married to the movie. Okay, great,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: I can't twelve years strong unbe inspiring. Yeah, truly, congratulations.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: I'm also cosplaying you are as an Illyrian. Yes you are.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: We will take a photograph. We will post it on
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: our Instagram. Sammy is dressed as Sebastian and She's the Man.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: You're looking very dapper. Thank you, Jamie. What's your history
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: with She's the Man? It's this morning? Yep, yep. Thoughts
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: loved it? Yeahs yes, it's so fun. And because it was,
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: this was like one of the many, like the decade
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: preceding this, and I think that they sort of like
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: peter out after this. But this was one of many
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: Shakespeare adaptations coming out in the late nineties into the
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: two thousands for teenagers, it was like this bizarre movie
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: fat and this was kind of the last and the
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: best that I've seen of all of them. Where were
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: the other ones? I've got? I've got a hot list
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: ten things I hate about you in episode the True
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Romeo plus Juliet that bas that bazaster as I like
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: to call the disaster piece called klet is horrified with
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: the disastrous piece. There's others. I have a power list somewhere.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: I'll find it. God, what's happening? I just turned into
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: who's the Who's the nerdy girl in this movie? I
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: just sound like her? Oh? Unice, Oh, I can't wait
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: to talk about Unice. Um. I saw this movie I
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: think when it first came out in two thousands six,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: and I really enjoyed it. But for some reason, it
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: was not a DVD that I ever added to my collection,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: so I didn't watch it throughout the years, which was
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: a mistake, because I have seen this movie maybe four
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: to five times in the past, like five days. Addicted, yeah,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: and obsessed. Now I'm surprised because you are you. You
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: are such a soccer head. That right, thank you? That
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: is stripper name soccer Head coming to the stage soccer Head. Yeah,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know why I didn't latch onto it more.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: And this movie is certainly not without its flaws. There
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: is a whole lot to discuss. Also, motocrossed Twelve Night adaptation.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: They all end up having the same stupid like boy hair,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: though just like a really weird like flat mop did. Admittedly,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: there's also an adaptation of Twelfth Night called just one
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: of the Guys from five and a gender swept one
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: called Ladybugs. Oh I didn't realize that was what that was. Yeah,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: look at that? Is that another soccer movie? No, Mio
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: and Juliet locks, that's just another movie that's not Shakespeare. Well.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: One of the fun things about Twelfth Night. In shakespeare days, uh,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: women weren't allowed to perform as actors on stage, So
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: in this still are right, right, I mean, are allowed
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: to do anything. So the actor who played Viola in
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Shakespearean times would have had to have been a man
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: playing the role of a woman who then pretends to
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: be a man. So it's like gender swapping and then
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: gender swapping back, like to see what that actor thought
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: that looks like? Right? Yeah? Well and then and there
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: are a few we don't need to talk about Shakespeare,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: not much. But like, this is like such a good
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: adaptation of a Shakespeare play because first of all, you
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: can't necessarily tell that's a Shakespeare adaptation. The names aren't
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: goofy except for Melvolio, the snake, feminist icon. It's just
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: like all the like stuff that sounds really Shakespeare was
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: taken out. Like originally Viola thought that her brother died
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: at sea, which would have been an interesting thing to
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: introduce it to this, but I'm glad that they're just like, Oh,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: he's in London with his freaking shoegaze band. Have either
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: of you read the play? Oh no, I can't read
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Oh sure, sure, sure, sure I have read it. Okay,
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: I haven't read it. Um but again I WICKI pediod
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: I know, so again I'm a scholar. But it seems
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: as though the story in Twelfth Night is much more
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: romance oriented, and there's no attempt to like dismantle any
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: sort of like gender norms or anything like that of soccer,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: No soccer at all. It's I think File is just
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: trying to literally get a job, which is kind of upsetting. Wow. Yeah, well,
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: shall I do the recap of the movie. Let's do
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: it all right? This is another this is a complicated one. Okay.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: So Viola played by Amanda Bindes, No, no, noa. I
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: know the beginning song. I know all of the songs.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: I sorry, Sammy, this is a no shame zone. You're right, yeah,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: please When the moment where Sam's a sharty little secret
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: starts playing, I haven't encouraged due to just releasing the
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: whole song. Guy's noticed that there are two all American
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: reject songs in even it's basically an Apper crownbeat it is.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: I bet they smell like that. You know that. The
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: set of She's the Man reeked of Hollist. Frances absolutely
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: I used to work at a Hollister. Anyway, it was
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: the worst month of my life. Okay. Viola is played
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: by Amanda Bindes and she loves soccer. Her boyfriend Justin
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: tells her, oh my gosh, you're like better than half
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: the guys on my team. But then her school cuts
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: the women's soccer team due to lack of interest. Right, so,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: when Viola one to try out for the men's team,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: her boyfriend, who had just told her, yeah, you're really
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: good at soccer. Is like, you're a girl and you're
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: not good enough. So she breaks up with him toxic.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Now she's got something to prove. Dar Let me. Now
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: when Viola's twin brother, Sebastian, who I thought for a
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: second was Drake Bell and that would have been perfect casting. Also,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: I was telling Kitlin the other day that I discovered
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: that Jesse McCartney was supposed to be that guy. Jesse
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: would have also been both have those soft, soft childlike features.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: Were you all into Dreams Street? No, I don't know
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: what that is. It was Jesse McCartney's boy band, so
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: I didn't know he was in a boymand. I thought
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: he was so low. Oh my gosh. You have to
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: listen to Dreams Baby, because baby down on Dreams Street
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: and it's like Jesse McCartney as a boy soprato. It's unbelievable, incredible. Yeah. Well, anyways,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: so Viola's twin brother, Sebastian, decides to go to London
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: for a couple of weeks instead of going to school
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: at a private school called Allyria, which is nearby to Cornwall,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: where Viola goes to school, which is a fun Shakespearean
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: reference for all you shakespeare heads out there. So then
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: Viola decides to pretend to be her brother so that
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: she can play soccer on the boys team at Illia
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: and beat her ex boyfriend Justin, who had told her
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: that she was a girl. So she's not good enough
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: in the rival game that they have coming up in
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: two weeks or twelve days, twelve nights really quick. Yeah,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: why does no one at Viola's school notice that she's gone?
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: Good question, Jamie. The movie does not address that, and
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: it is a plot hole, but I think the divorce parents.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: But I was like Viola straight up, there's another world
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: where they is like gone girl, because if a white
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: girl does not show up for her first day of
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: junior year, it's gone girls, right or a recent release Searching,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: which I did see in theaters the other day, brag,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: I enjoyed it you anyway. So Viola as Sebastian meets
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: her roommate Duke played by Channing Tatum, and I'm brilliant.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Oh this would be so funny. Um Duke and everyone
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: else basically thinks that Sebastian is lame. Viola as Sebastian,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: I think, for the sake of clarity, and ease of talking.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: When I say Sebastian, what I mean is Viola pretending
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: to be Sebastian. And then when I say the real Sebastian,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: that's that's the right. So so Sebastian tries out for
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: the soccer team, the men's soccer team, and makes second string,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: second string. This is all, this is all I'm doing
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: during just recap. I'm so sorry. I'm not sorry. Don't
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: become to hi. Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome,
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: welcome to Alliria. So thank you. So then in order
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: for Sebastian to seem cooler, he uses her. She uses Violet.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: It's this confusing. Viola uses her friends Kia and Yvonne
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: to pretend to throw themselves at Sebastian, and then it works,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: And now Duke and all of his friends were like, wow, Sebastian,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: she's the man. That's the name of the movie. Yeah,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: they all say that in Unison and we're like, what
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: it's like forty five minutes in. So meanwhile, Duke likes
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: their classmate Olivia and Dreamy asks Sebastian for help to
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: try to get with her, and then in exchange, Duke
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: will be like, I'll help you improve your soccer game, Sebastian,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: so that you can first string. So then Olivia starts
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: to like Sebastians. Now we've got this whole love triangle
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: like Sebastian pretty much the second she meets right right
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: right those dropped books in the hall and she gives
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: him a look, oh my god, twitter painted I wanted
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: them to kiss, So that that is my That is
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: my biggest beef is that they don't kiss. And then
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: we don't see the repercussion of Olivia recognizing that she
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: had a crush on a girl playing a boy, like,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: well what about that, Olivia? Yeah, what what does that mean?
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: I feel like Olivia is ultimately kind of short change
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: because she's like, I just love whoever was named Sebastian.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Like that seems a little reductive and confusing. Yeah, So
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: then Sebastian a K. Viola starts to like Duke and
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Viola as Viola I mean, and Duke is Likerea me, yes,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Channing Tatum normally not my type, but he's all so
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: like a comedic genius. He's so funny. He's so funny.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Every time I talk about Janning dadem I turned into
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: a woman I hate, Like he's just so he's like
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't think, but like he's so funny. It's true,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: I know. Anyways, So then Viola as Viola and Duke
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: kiss at a kissing booth at a carnival, which is
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: a fundraiser for Debutante Ball, which is a whole subplot
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: that we'll talk about later on. Yeah, the kissing booth,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: tenuous loved every second, right, kissing booths? Are they even
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: legal nowadays? Like at all? Ever? Yeah, there's I don't
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: think they exist anymore. And I feel like it's like
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: a real big stretch presents like oh, this is a
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: fun game of carnival assault, Like what the fuck is this?
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: And also the fact that like Viola's mom was like, yeah,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: this rules, Like I don't know if I believe that.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: So now Viola likes Duke, and Duke kind of likes Viola,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: but he still has feelings for Olivia, so he's confused.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Kiss her will crap out of her. Thank you for
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: your contributions. Hey, you're welcome. You can't cut me out
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: of this one, baby, So Olivia to make Sebastian jealous
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: starts to pay attention to Duke, and then there's this
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: whole thing where she marches up and kisses the real
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Sebastian who comes back from London a day early, and
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: then he plays in the first half of the big
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: rival soccer game as Monique is there the whole right,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: there's a Monique situation. Viola as Sebastian is like, hey, brother,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: I've been impersonating you. Sorry, but I'm going to play
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: the rest of the soccer game. And Duke is mad
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: at Sebastian because he thinks that he betrayed him by
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: kissing Olivia, and then Sebastian is a fucking idiot from
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: being like the soccer team like what sir, Like you
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: just have to suspend your disbelief. So then in the
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: middle of the game, the real Sebastian shows is drunk.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Viola as Sebastians like, actually, I'm a girl, and Duke,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: I love you, and he's like, what's happening, okay, and
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: the whole click con is revealed. Duke's like, this is weird.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: I feel weird about this. So the jig is up,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: but there's still the Debutan ball, so Viola is like, hey,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: would you want to come to the ball with me,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: And he's like, oh no, but then he goes and
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: then I kiss this slurp. Can I just like, for
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: your consideration, the day of the big game, let's just
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: walk through Sebastian's day. The night before, he walks into
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: a room he's never been, finds out all of his
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: stuff is already there and appears lived in. He's fine
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: with it. He's like, well, I'm tired, So he says, like,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: you set up on the stuff for me. Cool, So
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: he addresses it, but it's like it is like what weird? Fuck? Okay,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: he goes wakes up a whole soccer teams like the
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: game is happening, and he's like, okay, maybe I'll see
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: the girl who kissed me at this soccer game. Why
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: would that be true? We don't know, because she says
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: he at the game marrow. She also, surprised kisses him,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: which we can mention. But but he goes to the
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: game except that he is one of the best players
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: on the team, and then in the middle of the
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: game someone challenges his gender and he's like, you know what,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: I know. This day has been all over the place
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: so far, but I'm just gonna go ahead and drop
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: my pants in front of a stadium full of people
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: because David Cross, I'm not sure what's going on, like
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: absolutely insane. Anyways, that's excellent point, Jamie. But if you
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: had that kind of day, wouldn't you roll with it?
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, by the time he's asked to drop his pants,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: I'm like, you know what, at this point, this day
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: has already been confusing, right, And on that note, we're
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: gonna take a quick break and we'll talk to you
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: in a second and we're back, all right. So for
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: this movie, you can kind of just like boil down
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: the story of in order to prove that a woman
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: is as capable and is equal to men, she disguises
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: herself as a man to prove a point. If you
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: can't join them, baby, I love it. So it gives
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: us a lot to talk about. So on one hand,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: there's like in the very beginning of the movie there,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: you know, they go to try to try out for
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: the boys soccer team, when the girls realize that they've
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: been cut, and the coach of the boys team is
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: all like, uh, actually, um, girls aren't as fast as boys,
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: or as strong or as athletic. H this is just science.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: So and we in the audience were like, who wha
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: what excuse me? Pump those brakes and then justin the
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: boyfriend agrees with the coach and then he is immediately dumped.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: So at least we get to see some like misogyny
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: and sexism being punished right away. And I think that
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: that is like a moment. I don't know, that was
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: a moment that I connected with quite a bit of
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: like dating someone in high school who would be like,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: you're awesome, you're smart, you know, but only in one
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: on one situations, and then in front of guy friends
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: or friends in general, their attitude towards you shifts because
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: they're insecure. Right, We've got this like misogyny being punished,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: and then we've got a headstrong woman seeking to dismantle
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: this idea that women aren't as good as men at
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: soccer specifically, and then she goes undercover, she puts on
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: the disguise. There's a whole makeover mont but but unlike
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: see in most movies where if it's a woman getting
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: a makeover, it's like, oh, you weren't as physically attractive
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: as you needed to be, so let's make you hotter.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: The utility of this makeover montage is very different, yes,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: because the mission right, it is mostly just her trying
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: on mustaches, which she never ends up bummer. I feel
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: like Sebastia Violas Sebastian would kill with a mustache. Well,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: push broom on top of there, boom could do anything.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: There was like a there was a I forget what
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: cartoon villain. She had a few cartoon villain mustaches, like
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: the long Droopers, the whiskers. Yeah, any ways, they threw
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: in Jesus in there too. They did beautiful. That was
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: a fun because I wrote I was in the middle
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: of writing down month and then I was like, oh,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: but wait, it's good. Yeah. So she's the man kind
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: of puts this, like, I suppose so feminist spin on
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: the narrative that like Twelfth Night doesn't have, where it's like, yeah,
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: she's she's showing that she's just as capable as men
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: and that she's equal to men. But I would argue
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: that there are several instances where different characters Viola As
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Sebastian included, participate in either sexist or homophobic behavior that
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: often goes completely unchallenged. So for example, there are several
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: moments when boys behave badly and Viola doesn't do anything
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: to challenge it. Viola as Sebastian Um. For example, there's
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: a scene where Violet as Sebastian first goes into her
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: dorm room. There's like all the soccer player guys there,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: and they see tampons and they're like very grossed out
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: by it. Later on, like Duke can't even say the
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: word tampon, and but he does use one. He doesn't
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: feel like kind of commented on a a little bit there,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: But I do agree where there are like oftentimes the
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: hurdles Viola has to get through are rooted in or
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: she'll get out of by behaving in a misogynist way.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: And then they're so like overcome by like misogyny is
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: so fucking cool that they forget what the thing they
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: were about to be critical of was. But well, yeah,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: I'm I don't know, so it worked for me several times. Yeah,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: And in at least whenever she participates in the misogyny,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: it's because she's trying to maintain this disguise, because there
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: are several times where she's like feelings and you know, sensitivity,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: you're not going to say a nice thing, and they're like, oh,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: what are you talking about? She's like, Oh, I mean,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: which one would you rather see naked? So but then
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: in that same scene, Duke counters that by challenging that idea,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: which is something that I really liked about Duke's character.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: And they're our flaws in every character, and there are
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: moments that feel off with pretty much everyone at some
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: point for me anyways, But that scene I really liked
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: because Viola was kind of falling on the crutch of like,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: let me behave or say something misogynists and that will
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: distract from what I was just doing. And then that's
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: one of the few times that it doesn't actually work,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: and we find out that Duke is a sensitive man
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: feminist icon well, yeah, who's who? I feminist? He and
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: so handsome and sorry, my face is like leaking up
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: a storm and I'm like no, but turning Tatum is great.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: But that scene I thought was really effective where Viola
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: falls on the crutch and and and then Duke counters
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: by saying like, well, that's not all relationship is for me,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: as I want to be able to talk with and
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: then he literally says to her to Sebastian, why do
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: you always say stuff like that? Like why do you
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: why do you always talk about women that way? And
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: it's like, oh, And That's one of the things I
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: like about Duke's character in this movie a lot, is
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: that the setup of almost every high school movie is
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: that someone needs to be someone needs to change someone
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: else in order for relationship to happen. And it's not
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: like I think it would be very easy for this
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: movie to be like emotional labor thrust up on Viola. Uh,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: some have emotional labor thrust upon them. Uh? Is that
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: you know, Viola would have to cure Duke of his
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: own internalized misogyny, but that doesn't really happen where it
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: comes out in private moments usually, But Duke already is
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: pretty respectful towards towards women and doesn't need to be
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: like changed in that way. There's another there's a similar
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: moment earlier on where they're at the cafeteria and Viola
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: at Sebastian is again attempting to fit in with the
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: guys by like that we're seeing he sees Olivia or she.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: I don't know what pronouns to use. This pronoun expert
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Sammy Juno just kidding. Um, I think, well it should
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: just be her because she's still she's still identifying as
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: Viola as a woman. But I mean, yeah, I guess
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: I think that that's probably it. So experts expert, that's all.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: That's all the time I have Goodbye, Okay, So fake
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Sebastian sees Olivia and it's like, oh, look at the
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: booty on that bondie God, such twenties vernacular. A lot
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: of g money is being tossed about, like lord, just
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: like Viola trying to be a boy, just like overly
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: does it all the way. And I think that that's
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: just like whenever Viola overcompensates by being like super massages
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: like after being like sensitive or whatever, all of the
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: boys around her are like, I don't think that's that's
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: not it though, Well I would argue for inducing the well, yeah,
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: because they're they're I mean, I think it's because of
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: the presence of a of a woman that they're like,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, like we can really do this with because
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: it's about a girl. But like every other time they're
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: kind of just like that, you're weird, Yeah, so do
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: whenever like Sebastians like, oh, check out the booty on
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: that blondie. And then Duke is like, don't talk about
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: her that way, and so we're like, okay, Duke feminist icon, right,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: But then his friends Toby Andrew say like, oh, yeah,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: she was just dating this college guy but he dumped her,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: so now she's like super vulnerable. Her confidence and self
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: esteem are really low, so like now is the time
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: to pounce, and they're like and then like Duke, Duke
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: doesn't respond at least verbally to that. So it's like,
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: I'm not really inclined to give Duke a point there,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: because the only woman he stands up for is the
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: one he has feelings for, true, and that same respect,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: he doesn't stand up for Yvonne or what's the name
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: of the other friend okia, Like, he doesn't stand ups.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: He just stands up for the girl that he's had
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: a crush on for his whole life. Right. And then also, um,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: anytime he has to interact with the Unice character, he's
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: always like, oh, like, I don't want to talk to Eunice.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: That's also everyone she's that's true, And except at the ending,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: which I need to watch the movie again, that comes
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: totally out of nowhere, right, or is that foreshadowed in
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: any way? What the units ending up with? What's that
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: character's name? Oh that's I think Toby. Oh no, he says,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: he says something about Unice. Uh oh does he? There's
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: two other times so he once they think that Sebastian
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: is the top dog. Oh no, no, no, it's before that.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: When Duke is paired up with Unice in lab he goes, yeah,
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: you just go something something. And then and then also
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: in Cesario's when it's the double date between Duke and
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Olivia and Viola and Unice, he goes, looks like you
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: is like cooler than we thought. And he goes, oh,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: what I've been saying that for years? I hate high school? Right?
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: But so the the scenes, look I those are all
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: direct quotes. It probably I've also watched this movie with commentary,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: so to speak. On Channing's sensitivity, he actually the ring.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: He wears a ring around his neck, and he said
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: that there was a character choice because it's his He
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: wanted it to be his mother's ring, just to like
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: play on the fact that he's like super sensitive and stuff.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: And if you watch him through the entire movie, he
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: does like react really weird when Sebastian goes like nutty
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: because he defends Olivia in the cafeteria, but also when
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: they're setting the trap that Sebastian is really cool, like
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: he's also like this is gross, Like he gets really
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: interpreted that way. I feel like he was like, oh, well,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: like Sebastians the man. So let's talk about that scene.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: So that's the first scene we see in like the
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: pizzeria where Cesario has another fun Shakespeare rap wish. So
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: Austian fake Sebastian is trying to seem cooler to their peers.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to use their pronounced but that's the
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: easiest thing for me right now, it's not it, so
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: hold on next. So we should we we should be
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: saying shape because yeah, also maybe to not come off
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: as offensive, I'm non binary and my pronouncers sam they there.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: So I feel like I've like I've gone through a
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: pronoun journey myself when I feel like the appropriate thing
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: is right, Okay, come at me. If that's not true,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: it's okay, I'll learn as well. The mentions are open, right, Okay.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: So fake Sebastian sets up this whole. It's actually her
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: friend Paul is like, yeah, we're gonna make you seem cool.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: So then Kia and Yvonne violence friends pretend to throw
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: themselves at fake Sebastian, and then the guys on the
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: soccer team are like whoa, Like Sebastians have fucking stood
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: like he's getting all kinds of women and they just
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: think that he the'se the cats me out then sorry,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: I'm listening speaking of cats though, um, this is not
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: an intentional segway, but cats do have eight nipples cat
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: facts with Caitlin. But anyway, so he had to do
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: it to them, right, So this whole like scam basically works,
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: and now Duke and his friends are like, Wow, Sebastians
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: the man. But that whole scene requires fake Sebastian to
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: heavily objectify these women. To me, it seems like Duke
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: is like, oh wow, like Sebastian is so cool. It's
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: like it's a quick cutaway and he just like does
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: this for a second, like before he dabs, before all
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: of the hooplack comes, Like he's just like what is this?
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Like it's a very quick thing. I watched this movie
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: so closely so many times, so you think he's but
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: after after the girl's situation, then they're like, oh, yeah,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: make room for the man because that's it. But like
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: there's a there's a second. I feel like that's not enough.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: I feel like he's still subscribing to miss shot. Yeah,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: because I I'll screenshot it to you. I totally believe you.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: I just yeah, that whole scene knows us like is
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: anyone acting like anything here, like what is happening? Which
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: is just like, it's really unfortunate that that's the way
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: that a boy has to fit in is to be
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: this gross dude that has many girls and insults and
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: just uses them clearly, and then everyone's like, oh, yeah,
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: you're a really great guy. It's like why right, And
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: I know misogyny is alive and well now two thousands
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: in my experience, really, I'm sorry this somehow escaped, right.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: But but the fact that that ends with Viola confronts
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: Monique because Monique is in this scene too, which is
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: like the closest call because Monique would know who Sebastian
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: isn't right, because Monique is real Sebastian's girlfriend, and that
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: character is also all over the place where she is
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: like a bit but we don't really know why or
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: know anything about her um and it does seem like
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: she's perhaps being emotionally abused by Sebastian. But anyways, uh,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: she shows up and she's like, where's Sebastian and then
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: she doesn't recognize that it's not her own boyfriend, and
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Viola is like, you're ugly, I'm breaking up with you.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: And then byola fully everyone's like, yeah, that hot ladies
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: you yelled at her, and then it end of scene.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: So it's insane. So I think the point here is
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: that it's unfortunate that we see in in a movie
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: that has the opportunity to have more challenging of sexist
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: ideals of like, yeah, a guy is a stud whenever
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: he has slept with a bunch of women. And that's
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: the approach that they use for sebad Question to seem
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: cooler to her peers. But that could have been an
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: opportunity for Viola to be like, no, I'm not going
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: to like subscribe to this, I'm gonna like fine. I mean,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: I get it. It's it was an easy choice and
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: it worked, But I don't know, Like, I just have
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: higher hopes than is reasonable to expect out of a
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: movie from two thousand and six. So it's just it's
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: kind of a bummer that that's the scene that plays
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: out to get Viola as Sebastian to be accepted by
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: her peers, but could also be seen as a very
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: heightened version of what would be realistic because they like,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: for the second argument, the group of guys, the soccer
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: dudes are like interpreting Sebastian's masculinity is abnormal, that he's
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: like a weird dude, because Viola s Sebastian is acting
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: very weird like and it is acting like crazy person,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: and you know that is like the example of the opposite,
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: like if you can't beat them, join them, where Biola
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: is playing to what they do understand to be masculinity
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: in order for them to be like, well, yeah, he's
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: a freak, but he folks like that is all that
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: that is trying to accomplish and it's successful. Um yeah,
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: it's I don't really know where I land on it,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: because it's also a very funny scene and it's like, well,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: the fact that except for mooning, the moaning thing made
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: me feel bad for her, but Kia and and Ivan
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: are like so in on it that it's like fun
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: for them, and it's like you don't have to feel guilty,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: which is maybe like a horrible loophole, is like you
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: don't have to feel guilty watching these women be kind
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: of like yelled at and groped because it's their friend.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: But like, but that is so funny. I don't know. Yeah,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: it's it's complicated. Well, let's take a quick break and
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: then we'll be back to talk more. Okay, and we're back,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: all right, So the next thing I wanted to talk
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: about is God, there's so much Okay, really quickly. I
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: really like that Olivia likes who she thinks of Sebastian
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: because Violet as Sebastian is sensitive and isn't this like
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: big tough, macho guy. And that's like the main thing
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: that appeals to Olivia about Sebastian. Relatable, yes tbh, But y'alla,
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: Sebastian pretty good looking kids, I hear it. Yeah, cute
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: and sweet and yeah, like not threatening and not like
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: just like carrying around a bunch of like machismo everywhere.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: That's how I describe myself. Mugging to speak to what
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: you texted me earlier on Caitlin. Mugging maybe a few
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: too many times. So the one where it's like, is
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: this a feature film? Maybe, yeah, Amanda Bind's mugs a
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: whole lot, but like also works, it works for me.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: And then Viola and Olivia have a conversation whenever Violet
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: as Sebastian is trying to get Olivia to date Duke
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: and she's like, no, Like, he just seems like another
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: one of these dumb jocks that you know wants to
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: hook up with a girl so that you know, you
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: can tell us friends about it. But we learn that
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: that isn't true about Duke, and then that's one of
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: the main reasons that Viola is into him then because
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: they have these like long discussions like what Duke thinks
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: is like a man on man pow wow, but what
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: he doesn't know is Sebastian's real identity. But yeah, I
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: like that in many cases in this movie, and not
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: all the time, because we just talked about the times
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: that this doesn't happen. But sexist behavior is punished and
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: the opposite of sexist behavior behavior behavior is appreciated and rewarded,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: I suppose. So that's nice because in a lot of
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: movies like this where let's go back to like Ten
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Things I Hate about You. For example, in that movie,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, we've got a feminist, headstrong character, but
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: those qualities are seen to be very shrewish, and so
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: no one likes her because of that, and then the
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: guy lies to her throughout the entire movie, and then
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: he is rewarded even though he's been behaving badly. I'll
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: say it again, Uh, ten Things I Hate about you.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: It's a stinker. I know everyone's attached to it, but
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: as someone new to the ten Things I Hate about You,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: fold it's stinker. Well that's a boo from Jamie. Okay, well,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: I get it. It's uh. It does not handle a
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: lot of things well at all. Don boo boo boo boo. Alright,
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: I feel like you were singing a different tune a
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: few episodes ago when we talked about it. I feel
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: like you said you liked the movie. Can I watched
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: it again and I liked it even less the second
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: Oh interesting, Yeah, that'll happen anyway. So back to she's
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: almost caught it. She's all that okay, also a good one. Yeah, well, sticker.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: But and another example of a movie where bad behavior
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: in misogyny is not punished and is instead rewarded. The
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: only thing that you need to do to get a
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: boyfriend has changed literally everything about you. Yeah, that's what
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: I have to do up, dang it. So anyway, I
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: like how this movie handles a lot of things, and
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: that the whole movie is like a quest for a
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: woman to prove that she is as capable as men
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: and then succeeds in achieving that. But there are more
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: problems here. They are For example, there are quite a
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: few no homo moments. It's usually between Duke and Viola
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: as Sebastian, So for most of the movie Duke thinks
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: that Sebastian is a ciss het man, But then there
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: are moments where Sebastian will like linger too long on
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: a hug or be like you're not going to talking
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: to girls? How can that be? You're hot? And then
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Duke always responds, well discussed, what yeah? And then there's
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: like a moment where the tarantula, the spider the eight
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: legged female or spider facts with Caitlin feminist icon Melvolio
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: shows up in their dorm room and then they both
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: scream and get on the bed and they're like holding
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: each other and then then when which starts as a
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: good moment and then it's kind of sold out. Yeah,
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: so Duke's are like, oh gross, and don't ever do
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: that girl voice again. That freaked me out. So why
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: can't they does both be afraid of the Spider? Also,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: why don't they sit down and listen to what Melvolio
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: has to say because he's read the feminine mystique and
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: he has a lot of really good points he'd like
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: to make, and he's a feminist iChon. And I think
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: that there's a direction of this movie where if they
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: just sat down and had discourse with the Spider, you know,
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: he's would have been a different Yeah, we should invite
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: the Spider on the podcast to see what was a
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: queer icon as well. I mean this is like I've
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: had great talks with Amalia anyways. So and then during
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: the soccer game at the end whenever Viola is like
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: I love you, Duke, and he's like what this is weird?
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: And Viola was like, I'm Viola, I kissed you and
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: he's like, oh, girls, no you didn't, because he again
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: still thinks that Sebastian is a boy. So there's these
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: different moments that like I it is very like to that.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, it still happens now, but like two thousands queer,
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: panicky moments, right that didn't need to be there, And
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: you could argue, oh, well, you know, it's in line
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: with character. But they also had an opportunity to subvert
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: that trope of casual homophobia in movies and they didn't.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: So one of the things I liked best about this
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: movie is that for the first half of the Big Game,
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: which why I don't all movie, then with the Big Game,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: uh so they're at a big game and the first
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: half is just like real Sebastian being chaotic and it's like, yes,
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: I am soccer, Now here's my dick, and you're just like,
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: what is happening? And then but the fact that Viola
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: gets to finish the game as herself and playing with
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: her hair down, not in a ponytail. That's unrealistic. But
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: I I was going to ask you that, okay, But
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: but the fact that she gets to finish the game
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: as herself with total acceptance of her team and her coach,
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: I thought was so great. I didn't think that that
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: was going to happen. Yeah, I thought she was going
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: to finish the game as sebast That is really cool.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: And then we see that moment where she reveals her
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: true identity. She's like, I'm Viola. I played on the
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: team to you know, prove this point. And then the
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: coach of the opposing team is like, girls can't play
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: in this league, and he's he's the same guy at
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: the beginning who was like, girls are scientifically bullshit, right exactly,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: And then we get the great line read from coach
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: what is it dinkly away on what manual here? We
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: don't discriminate based on gender? Beautiful, Thank you very much.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: That's my sad. So my blood pressure is like rising
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: with each beautiful. So, like you said, Jimmy, the team
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: at all, area, the coach, they're all on board to
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: have Viola play as herself. She gets the goal, she
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: gets the goal, she scores the game winning goal, there
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: by proving she set out to prove. Here's here's a
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: question the fact that and these are like small gripes
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: with with a movie that does so much right, but um,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: justin her ex One of the like things we know
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: about him is that Channing Tatum made him cry during
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: a soccer game. And that is like, you know, not masculine.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: And then at the end Viola makes him cry. But
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: I still feel like it's like kind of that for
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: all of Justin's toxic masculinity is played for a laugh
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: in a way that I was like, a man, that's
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: they missed that one of like this boy crying looks
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: like so fucking dumb. And then when they talk about
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: it before the time that Duke makes him cry in
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: an earlier game, Yeah, it's all like, I mean that,
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: what a pussy cry? And then they address him about
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: it in person and he's like or something like we're
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: going to do drowned me in your tears. In a
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: movie that at least attempt to celebrate like male sensitivity,
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: it also does that mistakes were made. Mistakes were made,
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: and there's more. There's that. There's also the mistake of
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: if the situation was presented to the headmaster that a
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: person was trying to pull off being the opposite gender,
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: and they decided to out them during this big old
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: soccer game, a big game with with the loudspeaker megaphone,
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Why would that? Why is that the choice? Right? There's
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: a lot of the big game mistakes, Like there's a
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: big bird act kind of for sure a little bit
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: because for all they know, this Sebastian person is trans
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: and then for yeah, for them to be like he's
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: actually a girl and the girl and then he pulls
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: down his pants, everyone sees his penis. Unice is having
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: a wonderful time. It has a conniption, even though I'm
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: pretty sure she is facing his butt and not his
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: but anyways, whatever is action until now she's got like Toby,
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: who's like a cutie to he's cute, he's cute. Tricks.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: But yeah, Sammy, to your point, not only would that
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: be very problematic for them to out Sebastian because they
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: don't they don't know what the circumstances are. Right. The
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: other thing that this movie subscribes to is the idea
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: that if you have a penis, you're a man, and
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: if you have breasts, you are a woman. She's the man, right,
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: super cisnormative because both fake and real Sebastian to prove
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: that they are the gender that they identify as they reveal,
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: you know, bathing suit parts will say mom, stop, wow,
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: cut that out. Hope I'm keeping it. So yeah, it's
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: just subscribing to this idea that your genitals determine your gender,
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: which we know is false. And it's the second Shakespeare
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: adaptation from this pair of screenwriters that has a character
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: flashing their boobs, which it's like, get a new trick,
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: Kirsten and Karen. Um and that's all. This movie was
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: also co written by you and Lesley, by Malfolio, the
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: famous spiders that kind of louder voice in the writers room. Um, no,
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: by you and Leslie, although Jamie you you would probably
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: call him but anyway, but that's neither here nor there.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: So yeah, another mistake that this movie makes is the
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: sith normative bullshit of your genitals determining your gender. The
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: only points I'll give that because it's just like not necessary.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: And also this movie was listed for containing nudity, which
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: it doesn't know either way. The only thing, the only
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: improvement that makes upon ten things I Hate about you
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: as it leaves you know, Sebastian shows his parts and
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: Viola shows her parts as opposed to just a titty flash,
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: but I say, we we we we do away with
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: it in that context all together exactly. And then David
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: Kross as the Headmaster who participates in a number of
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: very funny visual jokes where throughout the movie he is
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: handing out food in the cafeteria. He comes in with
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: a plunger. At one point he's like snipping a shrub.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: He's like cleaning the windows. He just does all. He's
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: the headmaster, but he he's so involved in his school.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: He does it all anyway. Very funny, he says, as
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: he's like outing Sebastian as a girl, he says, you know,
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: actually he's been impersonating his own sister Viola for reasons
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: which will become very clear after extensive psychoanalysis, kind of
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: implying that if you present as a different gender from
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: the one that you were assigned at birth, you need
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: psycho analysis. Something's wrong with you psychologically. Um so bad, bad,
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: bad bad. He does have a good I feel like
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: it was kind of a good moment when he's talking
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: to what's what's the squirrely bad guy's name, Malcolm. Yeah.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: When Malcolm is talking to the headmaster and Viola as
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: fashion passes by, talking in normal Viola voice about wearing
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: a dress and high heels, there is a moment where
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: it could have been where Malcolm is just like, that's weird.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: But then the Headmaster is just like, have you ever
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: tried running away? Running down? Yeah? I was like, well,
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: that's that's that that that was a good opportunity to
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: not be a dick, and he wasn't. Yeah. And also
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: what Violen is saying on the phone is great. Yeah.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: Feminist icon says, yeah, heels were invented by men to
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: make women's butts look smaller and to make it harder
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: for them to run away, which is something I've been
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: saying for decades. So thank you for let me look
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: at your stiletto heels. Wow, I played soccer in them
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: today and you were not slowed at all. And the
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: reason she's talking about heels is because of the debutante
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: ball and I have a lot to say about this. Okay.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: So in the movie, Viola's mom wants her to be
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: a debutante, wants her to be a lot more feminine.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: Isn't thrilled with the whole soccer playing thing reminiscent of
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: Kira Knightley's mom's character and bend it like Beckham where
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: she's like, oh, like soccer's growths and you should wear dresses.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: So for most of the movie, Viola rejects the idea
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: of needing to present as super feminine, and that ranges
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: from wearing sporty, pretty gender neutral clothing, not wanting to
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: be a debutante and these like frilly gowns, and then
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: that ranges all the way to literally dressing as a boy.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: So I think it's cool that she is, like she
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: spends the entire movie rejecting these sort of gender norms.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: That is to say, if you want to present that way,
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: that's fine, and that's anyone's choice, but society's expectation has
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: long been the more feminine a woman presents, the better,
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: which is unfair and unrealistic and yeah, not great. But
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: at the end of the movie, after Viola has spent
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: all this time, you know, rejecting these norms of needing
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: to present a super feminine, then she goes to the
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: debutante ball. She wears the gown she presents as super feminine,
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: and the idea of women expecting to present as feminine,
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: men expecting to present as masculine, there being no room
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: for anyone to fall anywhere else on the spectrum. It
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: would have been better if she know showed the ball. Yeah,
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: because those like rigid gender norms that have been challenged
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: throughout the movie go back to like being intact. I
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: feel like a lot of the statements that are made
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: about gender throughout the movie feel like they're almost kind
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: of undone by this ballroom scene. I mean not really,
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: but it's just like, why did this movie have to
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: end with this ball My theory is that the trope
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: that I do not like of like high school movies
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: always ending in prom or like a spring formal. It
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: doesn't make sense for this movie to end in prom
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: because it happens two weeks into the false school year. Also,
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: we were just at a big game, we had the
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: high school at the moment. Yeah, So for then there
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: to be another basically prom event at the end of
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: the movie just feels unneeded and it like reverts back
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: to all these like weird, rigid gender norms that the
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: idea of, like being a debutante really in stills. So
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: I didn't like that. I had something I wanted to
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: discuss really quickly about the reception this movie received when
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: it was originally released. This movie has a forty three
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: percent on Rotten Tomatoes. I'm not surprised, which right, but
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: not because as we have been discussing, it is a
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: well written movie. There's not that I mean considering the
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: fact that it's a successful, well done Shakespeare adaptation, which
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: is so hard to do, and the characters are explored
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: and well realized for the most part, with this movie
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: didn't fare very well. And this goes back to something
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: that we recently found out. The Annenberg Inclusion Initiative did
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: a study on film criticism and this year, and I
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: can't imagine how much worse this issue was in two
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: thousand and six, of almost sixty movie reviews written between
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: and teen s were written by men were written by women.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: Uh So in film criticism there is a massive gap
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: and who decides what's good and and and that informs
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: what people see a lot of the time. And in
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: two thousand's and six, I have to assume this issue
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: was even worse and and and that is telling in
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: the way that this movie was reviewed. There was one
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: stuck out to me as particularly annoying. Where is it?
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: It was from not Ebert what's his name? But there
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: are a lot of the criticism of this movie was
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: focused on that Amanda Binds did not play a man convincingly,
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: which betray is far more about the writer than the movie,
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: because that just is, you know, evidence of how rigid
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: their view of masculinity is. Joel Siegel, in a lame
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: attempt to amuse older teens, She's the Man, manages to
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: alienate the parents of the younger one with tampon and
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: gender jokes. Richard Roper Mere words cannot convey how awful
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: Binds is at playing a girl playing a boy. Uh So,
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, and and this movie was financially successful, had
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: a budget of twenty million dollars, made uh fifty seven
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: million dollars at the box office. But you have to
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: think if it were better reviewed or reviewed by a
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: more diverse pool of people, that the reception of it
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: would have been quite different, and it wouldn't have a
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: rotten tomato so much lower than it deserves, I know.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: And then think about the I mean, but like also
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: think about the movies that we've done, and I mean,
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: for example, Devil's Advocate, Let's see what Love actually has
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: on rotten tomatoes, a movie that performs horrifically bad with
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: gender issues, uh actually has sixty Um So there there
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: are movies that are extremely misinformed, border unhateful towards gender
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: and gender roles that are considered classics versus this movie
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: that for the most part, performs very well across the board,
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: and it was sort of at the time not quite panned,
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: but not received very well. Yeah, yeah, that's so upsetting.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: So this would be a reminder to our listeners that
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: if you're reading a review of a movie that deals
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: with issues like this, or for instance, if you're reading
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: a white writer reviewing a movie with a diverse cast
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: and directed by someone other than someone exactly like them,
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: take that criticism with a grain salt, because they may
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: not actually know what they are talking about. I wanted
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about Unice. She is the
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: not I just Unice is great. I just I think well,
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: like she moon walks into the friend steps that was
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: her choice, like a lot of I read. David Cross
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: improvised a lot of his stuff. Amanda Bindes also improvised
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: a lot, and then Unice didn't. Un who plays unsh
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know her name, but she has some of
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: the most famous person in the whole world and act
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: just named Emily Perkins, who has since been Oh she's
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: the receptionist in Juno. Oh, the one who's like, whoa,
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: there are condom flavors. Whoa and that is what pretty much. Well,
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: she's great in this So the thing I want to
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: say about her is that she's also in this movie.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: She's dirty, yes, a lot of things. Um Well, the
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: thing I want to say about her is that this movie,
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: and so many movies, take a character who is not
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: conventionally attractive by Western beauty standards, and sometimes it's something
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: as simple as she's wearing glasses. In this case, she's
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: got glasses and braces and some headgear, but the movie
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: will like turn her into a punching bag. Basically, it's like,
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: look at this disgusting woman, just like makes a joke
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: out of the whole thing, when in reality we should
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: be critical of her for being thirty and in high school. Also,
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: Channing Tatum this Sea, but yeah, I don't like that
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: because pretty much everyone else in this movie is conventionally attractive.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: So to take like the one character who the movie
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: has made to seem not as conventionally attractive and then
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: put her in scenarios where like she's on a date
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: with someone, or you know, like Channing Tatum has to
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: talk to her, it's always like, oh, I can't believe
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: I'm stuck talking to this super lazy I think this
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: falls into the same bucket of lazy writing that like
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: Liz Lemon would fall into of Like, here's a woman who,
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: if you took this weird prop off of her would
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: look completely like conventionally attractive, but we're just going to
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: have everyone in the movie ship on her and call
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: her not hot to distract from the fact that that
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: is not actually the case. And like it seems like
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: a more egregious version of like the Lis Lemon issue
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: of like down to the like I like cheese, like
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: shot up like funk off. Anyways, that's a funny line
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: though almost more than any other animal byproduct. I could
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: like that. And then I'm like, what if Channing Tatum
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: is like tell me more instead of being please? Right, Yeah,
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: so I didn't care for that. That happens a lot.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: I feel like that happens with like Aquafina's character her
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: brother in Yeah Crazy Rich Asians, where like he's not
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: conventionally sorry, um, he is not as conventionally attractive. Oh,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: he's like the weirdo creepo guy. When like it's I
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: hate these like tropes that it's a microaggression. Yeah, and
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: movies need to stop doing that. Yeah, but also, I
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: mean everything Units does I'm on board for. It's just
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: the way the movie treats are exactly. That is not fair, right, right, right, exactly.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: There's a there's a weird moment. I don't have any
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: particular view of it, but at the end, it's almost
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: like they accidentally did a little parent trap. Uh where
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: the parents are? You know, it's clear they've been divorced
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: for a while. That seems to be why no one
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: notices that their teenage daughter hasn't gone to school for
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: two weeks. But that the end, Viola is like, well,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: why don't we all discuss this issue over dinner tomorrow
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: all four of us and the parents are and the
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: parents are like, yeah, can I have your number? What's
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: your email address? It was like, it's literally Quate and
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: Richardson over here. It's that's true. A couple of fun
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: little things I wanted to mention. Channing Tatum is wearing
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: a Duccatti jacket for part of the movie. Um, he's
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: a bad boyfriend life, he's a bad boy. He's not
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: like the others. If anyone out there is keeping track
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: of my name anagrams, which you might be familiar with
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: if you've listened to a few recent episodes that I
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: guessed on of the Daily Zeitgeist. I'm Latin dancer U
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: t I. I am a cat turd inline Caitlin Durante
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: also anagrams to internal Duccatti. So that's a good So
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: watch out. I have I have one more observation about
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: parents that I should have said while you were talking
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: about the debutant Paul, but then I didn't because I'm
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: flawed too. But I think that that was yet another
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: missed opportunity that this movie has to have some sort
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: of And this is something and I'm only thinking of
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: this because it happens in another soccer movie very effectively,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: bend It like Beckham, where Kira Knightley's mom in Bendett
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: like Beckham, and Amanda Buyds, his mom and She's the
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: man are very similar type characters where they want to
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: force a very traditional idea of femininity onto their daughter,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: and Bendett, like Beckham, they have a dialogue about it
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: and there's some conversations had between the mother and the
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: daughter that doesn't really happen in this movie. Granted, there's
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of stuff going on I don't know if
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: we necessarily have time for it, but in in you know,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: for instance, in lieu of Viola going through with the
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: debue tant ball, why is there not a conversation between
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: her and her mother that could probably be pretty productive
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: about why she is not interested in doing it? Um, So,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: there is a very short conversation early on where her
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: mom's trying to get her to like agree to this
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: debut tap ball thing, and Viola says like, I have
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: no interest in being a debutant, Like I think they're archaic,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: so could have been spoken, but then she ends up
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: appeasing her and do exactly. So that felt like kind
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: of right, that's yeah, that's one of my big problems
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: with the ball scene. But oh, one last thing I
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: wanted to talk about is the Paul character being being
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: what I interpreted to be queer coded. Well, yeah, at
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: the end, he's with not Toby, the other one and
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: kind of like grooming him a little bit, which is like, okay, yeah,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: there's like a very quick glimpse, and then before that
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: he's sort of like the Harvey fire Steam character from
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: Mrs Doubtfire where he like does the whole makeover of Viola,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: and the queer quoting in this movie isn't as horribly
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: done and egregious as it is in some movies. But
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: but queer codd dirt equals makeover is kind of like
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: a fairly standard lazy writing. Yeah, it's very tropy. Yeah
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: they could have again another thing that could have been subverted,
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: but instead was like, you know, double down on. Paul
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: does deliver my favorite line of the movie, hit it
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: and he goes be a good boy and then Boyle
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: has to walk off. I got goose bumps every time.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, that's nice laying along. I mean, all
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: of Viola's friends, uh, in spite of their kind of
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: shoddy writing, are good friends. Yeah, very supportive friends. And
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: when they're blocking. We didn't really get to Monique, but
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: she's so all over the place that I don't even
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: know what we could say. Well, that is an example
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: to me of a like female rivalry in a movie
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: that there's no groundwork laid for why that would be.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: So they hate each other and it's not totally clear why.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's like Boyle is like, oh, I don't
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: like her because she's dating my brother, and well, Monique
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: is pretty mean, but I feel like that's such an
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: underthought character. I don't even want to give the writer's
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: credit for thinking about it this hard. But there is
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: like sort of a tendency in some movies for a
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: female character like Monique, who when you think about it,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: you know, her boyfriend keeps disappearing and not telling her
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: where he's going. He's constantly bailing on her. It makes
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: sense she would feel insecure and neglected in this relationship
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: because she is neglected in this relationship. How that translates
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: to a dislike of Viola isn't clear to me, But
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: I didn't love that the movie treated her genuinely being
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: neglected in a relationship as like what a bit psycho
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: exactly where I mean, I think the story would like
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: for you to feel that way about her, but it's
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: just totally it's just a total misfire of like, yeah,
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: it's like a combination of the female rival reach out
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: and just like demonizing a woman having needs. Yeah, that
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: I didn't like. And there is that like a girl
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: fight scene that happens in the bathroom of like the
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: debutante training that is an fight, But then I was like, oh, like,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: why do we need to see that. But then there's
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: also like a boy fight at the carnival, so I'm like, okay,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: at least there's like a balance struck. I love the boyfriend.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: This is a lovely children's carnival. Doctor. We should watch
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: the movie together again, just so you can like yesterday night. Oh,
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: I glitter in the entire time. One last thing I
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: want to say is that Viola as Sebastian in biology
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: class is like dissecting some sort of animal and faints
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: because women, but Olivia didn't. That's true. Yeah, Olivia seems
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: to do have done like most of the work women's stem.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: Viola's a woman in stem sort of. She's a nice call,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: but I always a bastly like said that in the beginning.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: Once they pair it up in class, I was like,
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: you know what this stuff, I can't really do it,
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: and all of you is just like I love you. Yeah,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: She's like, you're so sensitive. She unicsed him. Then take
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: oh one more final shout out to Channing Tatums. I'm sorry,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: I'm a wine mom again. Channing Tatums impeccable comedic timing
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: on the when he's on the flip phone and he
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: bonks his big old meat head on the thing and
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: he's like hello, Like, it's just it's such a good scene. Oh,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: I love he's a comedicus. He's so funny. I don't know,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: I need to call my mom about this. Does anyone
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: else have any other thoughts about She's the man? You know,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: overall mistakes were made, but a modern classic. So let's
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: talk about whether or not this movie passes Bechtel test.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: It does. There are scenes between in the very beginning,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: whenever Viola is talking to her teammates Kia and Yvonne
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: about like having their team been cut. They're talking about
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: like where she wants to play soccer in college. She
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: and his mother talk about the debutante b oh, they
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: do mention justin in that they do mention yeah. Later
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: on that scene, but there's a few lines why don't
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: you do a mom? And she's like, I couldn't. That
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: reminded me of my mom Horny moms representing horn So yeah,
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: there's quite a few conversations that pass the Bechtel test
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: between several different combinations of characters. So that's cool, Um,
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: good job. It's like when first time listeners of this
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: podcast think that that's what the whole podcast is about there,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: like it's the whole time, are we we're trying to
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: what figure out? Like wait, but does it? It's like
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: it's pretty clear that it's not too hard to figure
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: out totally. Anyways, Shall we read the movie on our
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: nipple scale zero to five nipples based on its portrayal
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: and representation of women. I'm going to give this movie
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: I think three. I'm docking off a couple nipples for
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: all the mistakes that makes, which is the casual homophobia
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: that for the most part goes unchallenged for some of
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: the moments of misogyny that go unchallenged, most notably the
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: scene where in order for Violet as Sebastian to be
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: accepted by her peers, she has to objectify women and
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: seem like this awesome stud to be cool and to
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: be the men the sis normative idea that your genitals
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: determine your gender identity, things like that. This is also,
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: as most movies we come across, a very white movie.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: The few characters who are people of color are for
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: the most part sidelined, but just the story of a
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: woman seeking to prove that she is equal to her
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: sort of male peers and then succeeding in that quest
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: is just a cool story that we don't really get
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: to see that often, and I like that in the adaptation,
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: even though there is like a romantic subplot with Duke,
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: the main story still is largely like proving that she's
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: a capable soccer player, whereas in the original play it
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: seemed like it was mostly just entirely about the romance.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: So I like that it deviates from that quite a bit. Um.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I think three nipples, and I'm gonna give
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: one to the scene in the gym where Channing Tatum
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: is the best comedian ever to have lived that whole scene, yes,
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: exactly two. And then my other two nipples I'm going
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: to give to Amanda Binds for um being a comedic
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: powerhouse in this movie. For uh, you know, we didn't
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: talk about this, but her sort of fall is very upsetting. Yeah,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: I love her. She's great, and this is a fun movie,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: not without its flaws, but I really enjoy this movie.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: Three nipples. I'm also going to give it three or
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: actually I'm gonna give three and a half nipples for
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: for all the reasons you stated, Caitlin, Um, it is
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: a very white movie. There are a lot of blind
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: spots in terms of homophobic jokes, etcetera. But by and large,
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: I think that it's almost tricky to rate on its
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: treatment of women because we spend most of this movie
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: be with men. However, I don't necessarily think that that
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: is a bad thing. I think that that works and
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: still accomplishes quite a bit where it's mostly we are
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: seeing Viola as Sebastian among other men, and it's kind
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: of an examination with varying degrees of success as we've discussed,
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: of looking at masculinity and how do men interact and
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: you know, like what are the shades of gray there?
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: And again there were some hits and there are some misses,
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: but ultimately it does well, certainly better than most teen
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: movies of this era. It's a very effective adaptation where
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: the the you know, original play it does not look
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: upon women that kindly, where that was somehow you know,
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: made into a movie that makes women part of the
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: narrative and very capable. And I do wish that there
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: were other women in this movie included in a more
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: meaningful way. Um. I think it would have been really
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: awesome to have give Viola someone to talk to more
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: often so that she could be reflecting on this experience
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: in real time. I think that there could have been
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: a lot of cool things to get out of that.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: But for the most part, the fact that we spend
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: most of this movie with men, unlike most movies where
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: we're with men almost all of the time, is done
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: with a lot of intent, and four two thousand and
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: six is handled generally pretty thoughtfully. However, I wish we
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: were with women for more of this movie, and and
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: also the mom character in general kind of missed for me.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of cartooning characters in this but I
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: just like because the whole time I was thinking of
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: the other hyper traditionally feminine mother character in a soccer movie. Um,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: I just think that that was a big missed opportunity.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: You know, maybe if we there was a portion of
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: this movie that had to do with why the fund
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: isn't five Fola at school? That could be a conversation
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: between Viola and her mother right like there there There
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: are definitely, as with most movies, this movie is like
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: littered with missed opportunities, but the ones that capitalizes on
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: generally I think do pretty well. So three and a
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: half nippies from me and to give two of them
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: to Amanda Bynes come back, we need you. I'm going
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: to give I guess I'll give. I have to give
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: one a Channing Tatum because you know you wouldn't think
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: that he's so funny and um, and then I will
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: give my final half nipple to um My queer King Malvolio. Sure,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: of course, do spiders have nipples? As a nipple expert
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: over here, UM, I would say, now if each of
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: a long ass nipple, spiders are just basically cats who
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: walk on their nipples. I'm sorry, that was the worst
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: thing I've ever said. Sammy, oh hi, I would say,
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: I think even though it is my favorite movie all time,
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: and I did say that it was flowless, I think
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: that I'll give it probably three point five nips. The
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: thing with gender swap movies is that it really does
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: result in focusing on leaning into gender norms, which you
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: know those aren't my bag, baby, So I mean, but
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: you have to do it for the story whatever. But yeah,
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: three and a half. I think one to Unice Sure,
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: one to Amanda Bindes is mugging MH. One to Amanda
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: Bindes is inconsistent accent boy accent southern sometimes southern, and
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: then something like with all of her like money. It's
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: like I love it. Like if you guys ever want
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: to know what I'm like in my daily life, I
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: am Viola as Sebastian without that was such an probable
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: the scene where the one like debutante lady is like
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: Viola true, like you have a secret, and then she
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: just to like that all the time because of that
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: scene when yeah, how many nipples are think about three
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: and a half? You got a half or a half
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: to dinklage. All right, Yeah for not being well, Sammy,
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here with us. Thank
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: you for inviting me. It's time. Where can people find
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: you online? Is there anything you'd like to plug? Um?
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: Follow me on Instagram? At it your sam underscores it
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: between those words, so I t underscore? Why oh you
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: are underscore? S A M Twitter Sammy Junio s A
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: M E j U and I oh if your local
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: to Los Angeles are coming to visit, uh see a
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: historical roast or fictional roast show at Dynasty, Typewriter or
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: the comedy Store. Jamie and Caitlin, we're both on and
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: killed it. Oh, so good. It's so good to see them. Also,
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: I do have a podcast unreleased, but it will come
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: out called non Binary Code, which is me going through
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: the non binary journey and inviting guests to talk about
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: their experience, which in what I call a living blurry nice.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: Thanks love it. So be on the lookout for non
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: Binary Code and you can follow us at bechtel Cast
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: on social media. You can go to our website bectel
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: cast dot com and there you can find episodes. You
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: can find our merch store. We've got all kinds of
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: apparel and mugs. Speaking of you can drink out of
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: a Cat Facts with Caitlin mug or whatever. Oh speaking
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: of which, Alfred Molina could have played Malfolio. Malfolio with
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: this spider. I mean he's a chameleon. He can play anything.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: That's true. Yeah, yeah, Get your merch um rate and
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: review us on iTunes. That will help us a lot,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: especially if you give us a five NIP rating and
• 1:17:55
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• 1:18:00
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• 1:18:03
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• 1:18:05
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• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: slash Beckadle casts excellent, So and thank you, we love you,
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: and we're all. The Man's the Man. Yeah, he's the Man.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: By