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The Dogs Who Teach Us to Heal: What I Learned from Psychologist Dave and His Rescue Dogs.. · Every Pawprint! Every Story!

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, everyone.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Good afternoon or good morning.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to another episode of Every Pop Print, Every Story.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: I am your host, Dan Popovic.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Excited to jump into this special next episode with Dave today, my special guest here.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: He and I have been chatting, gosh, literally for the last uh half an hour.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then we're like, all right, we just gotta start a we gotta start this podcast and jump right into it, talk about for kids, talk about mental health.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: So um and Dave and I just met from uh Substack community.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: So Dave, welcome to the show.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Wonderful meeting you.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's really great.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so jumping right into it.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, just letting the listeners know, we were talking about so much before this, and we're like, yeah, we just got to get this thing kicked off and get started and just talk.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, let's start with how many fur kids do we have a part of the family today?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: So right now we have two.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: We have two dogs.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um at one point we had four pets all together.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: We had two dogs, two cats.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then learned pretty quickly we had to keep them separate because they did not get along, and that was very difficult.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Then had kids, and then, you know, unfortunately, the cats passed away.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we both decided, like, all right, we're just gonna stick with dogs.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: So we always have two dogs.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of the goal.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: My, you know, my wife convinced me, and and I agree, like, dogs are social, most of them.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: They do well with companionship, especially if we're not around a lot.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm a psychologist, my wife's a special ed teacher.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we both work full-time, my kids are in school.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: So we know at least when we're not here, they have each other.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Now, okay, so the dogs and the cats didn't get along.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Was one of the dogs chasing the cats around the house or both of them?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: So the the dog wanted to be friends with the cats, the cats did not want to be friends with the dogs, and the dog was not very good about reading those cues.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: So the dog kept getting scratched or bitten or whatever, and then the cats running away, and then the dogs barking, and she didn't realize she was 80 pounds, so she'd be knocking into stuff and doing who knows what.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: So the guest roomslash office was the cat's room, or we'd keep a gate up between like one side of the house and the other with dogs couldn't get over.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it it took a lot, you know, a lot of planning and kind of intention and all the things we did.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: But now it's just solely the two dogs, and they're part of the family.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: They're our kids.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it it's funny because I know when we were talking before we decided to launch into this podcast, mention I had three dogs now.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I yeah, I I was right there with you too.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: When we moved up here, we had the two dogs and the two cats.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Similar story, right?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Marley wanted to play with them, they wanted nothing to do with it.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: So they got the upstairs, Marley and Marceau got the downstairs.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um so totally familiar with that that game.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: The two, okay, so the two present today, let's talk about them, just the the uniqueness with them.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: But what what are the names and how did their names come to be?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: If you even had uh the opportunity to name it.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, this is this is great.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: So um my background also growing up, I was always in bands, played music.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, cool.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, love music.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: My wife also like has favorite bands, so we've always named our pets after either song titles or something associated with bands.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so our daughter helped us with our newest dog, decided on the name Bowie.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um also because my daughter shares a birthday with David Bowie, so it was perfect.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: The other one, the older one, is Sarah, because my wife's favorite band is Fleetwood Mac, and they have a song Sarah.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: So Bowie is a rescue who came over here after the hurricanes of Puerto Rico.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: The Humane Society down here brought a bunch of dogs over.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: My wife was looking at the Humane Society site like every night.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we saw a few that they're bringing over, decide to go.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Met him, was quiet, sweet, calm, played with our already dog Sarah.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: We had like, oh my god, this is great.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Brought him home.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: I pick him up because he like was kind of in shock.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: I bring him inside and he just stood there.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't make any noise, he didn't move.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I think he's broken.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know, like, what do we do here?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, brought him outside.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: After a little bit, he started playing, but didn't make a sound.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Within 24 hours, we heard his first bark and he hasn't stopped.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it's six years later.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, like I said to you earlier, he's got a bit of Doberman in him.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: So most of the time he is perched on top of the couch, kind of sitting there, staring out our front windows, waiting.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone or anything that walks by barking lets us know mailman, Amazon, another dog, a leaf blowing.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: He is vigilant.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: I always use the term, he's excitable.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like he just goes from like here to here quickly, but very sweet.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like he is like mine.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: He will just like lay on me, and he's not small, he's like 45 pounds, but he is just like that's my guy.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other one, my wife found her probably about nine years ago from another rescue that they found her on the streets with her puppy, just kind of all wrangly looking.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: She reminds me of the dog from Annie.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: If you remember the movie Annie, this really scruffy, wiry haired.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so she found her in this cat adoption place.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: She was the only dog.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So when she came to us, and she still does, she acts like a cat.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like she rubs on people.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she's not super like friendly like most dogs, or you kind of think of like your prototypical dog, but also kind of food aggressive.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: So we have to feed the dogs like kind of separately.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very funny.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the younger dog, and I don't know if you have this with your three, the personalities.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the younger one starts with the older one.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: The older one doesn't want to play, and she'll just like smack at him.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: My wife thinks it's the funniest thing in the world, where it's literally the younger brother bothering the older sister, and the older sister kind of smacks him away, like, oh my god, you're so annoying.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the dynamic.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's very entertaining to watch.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, we luckily well, I think having three, it's a little easier because the two girls go after each other and leave the old man Marshall alone, which is perfect for him.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: They they they mu they may try to interact with him, but then he's like, just leave me alone.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, by that age, just of course.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so with now, do you take them both on, you know, what's the activity?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: You take them on a lot of walks, or is that mainly Bowie and Sarah stays home?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Or so I it's funny, I was saying to you earlier, you know, we had a dog trainer teach us some tips where I learned very quickly, like, you're not training dogs, you're training us.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, Yeah, of course.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm training you how to get the dogs to do whatever.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we got them very good, like leash trained, and they know their routine.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Every morning I wake up, I come out, they're ready for me.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: We go on our walk, our like 10 or 15 minute walk around the neighborhood.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, same thing at night.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: After the kids kind of get ready for bed, that's the last thing my wife and I do.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: We go for like another like 10, 15 minute walk.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: My younger one, um, and it's cool, like when you get to know your animals and what they need, he needs to sprint.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: While some dogs like walking, like he likes to run.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we have luckily a decent sized backyard, a couple of those like Kong rubber balls.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, yep.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: I just throw them with him and he loves it.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then afterwards, it's very funny to see after about 10 minutes, he comes in and he's a different dog, like he's very settled and calm and at peace.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they love their Kongs.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: If you know anyone listening hasn't bought them yet, fantastic company.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we put like I make my own little peanut butter oatmeal concoction in it, I freeze it.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: They love it.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then they love just the kind of interaction with us, just like laying with us or you know, getting in bed with us, or they love the kids.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: So the kids will also, you know, just kind of dote on them.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I know I talk a lot, so like I'll be at home working sometimes.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'll talk have total conversations with them, and I think they're now used to it.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Very cool.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and the what and it was Sarah's the one that's like the the cat, right?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh she's older, she's already 10 years old.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: So give me to that, yeah.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Wonderful.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: And kind of tying it, you know.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: I know we're going to talk a little bit about mental health because that's my background as well.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Even when I've had some tough times in the past, and I've had some pretty, you know, traumatic experiences or like been in some really dark places, having them not just for the companionship, but also like for some purpose and responsibility, was really good for me.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: So the walks in the morning are not just for them.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, right?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like that helps me start my day where I like I'm not on a phone, I'm not on a computer, I'm not dealing with some pretty serious stuff.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just out in nature and I'm with them and I'm focused on them and I'm getting movement.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: So they I couldn't imagine not having dogs.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's it's probably it's like a feeling of calm being there now, just in the moment and just that appreciation.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the the psycho babbly term that you know the uh that's the buzz term the last 10-15 years, it's that mindfulness, right?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's that I'm present, I'm grounded, I'm not really focused on my thoughts as much as I am focused on the environment, what's around me, and who's around me.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's a that's a good segue because I know, like you said, before we started jumping into this podcast, we were talking about what you do, and then um, yeah, so I mean let's let's share with the the audience a little bit more about what you do and then pull in the story you were talking about with the kids and the pets, too.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm a psychologist.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: My my training's in school psychology, but I work in a private practice.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I work for myself.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: I see mostly kids, teens, young adults, but it focused a lot more on that high school, college, post-college age.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of the young people I work with deal with things like ADHD, autism, depression, anxiety, um, sometimes trauma or abuse, suicidal ideation, and self-harm.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, like serious stuff.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, tying in the kind of pet perspective or animal perspective, I've worked with a couple of young people in the last few years, where specifically I'm thinking of the most recent one.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a lot of these young adults who really struggle launching into adulthood.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was joking before, like, we're Gen X.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: We're I almost I tell them all, like, we're the last generation that were kind of thrown into the deep end.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, right, there was no tracking our phone.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: There was no, oh, I'll just move back home until I'm 30.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, like, no, like that was never an option.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Where there is a huge population of young people that are really struggling.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and even ones that are kind of neurotypical or emotionally, socially okay, have a lot of difficulty launching into adulthood or what you you really think of it, it's just like independence, right?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's what everyone kind of is synonymous with when they think of adulthood means like you're just more independent, your parents aren't taking care of you.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, one of these boys I've worked with recently, you know, a lot of struggles, ended up back at home in his 20s, severely depressed.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Parents decided, you know what, we we have a lot of land where we live.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Let's rescue an animal and make it his responsibility.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he loves animals, so let's see if this helps him a little bit.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it completely turned everything around.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was one of those pivotal moments that within a few weeks he was getting up earlier, he was getting more exercise, which he needed because he was barely leaving his bedroom.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he felt needed and felt like he had a purpose and a reason to kind of do each day.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: He had more structure in his day, he had things to be proud of, like, oh, I got the dog leash trained, or now he doesn't eat food off the table, or I taught him these commands and he does it and it works.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: So just those little things, right?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: People might not think it's that big of a deal.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Then it was so much easier for him to re-enroll in school, or eat with the family more instead of alone in his room, or get out to the dog park and socialize with people, or go on drives and put the dog in the car because the dog loved drives.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: So again, give him another reason to leave the house.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that's just one story, which means there's probably thousands just like it.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: No, that that's awesome.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: And like the this the sense of purpose.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: I can see where this article, the follow-up article to this interview, just spotlighting everything you do.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's that sense of purpose.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: And gosh, you always, you know, you've rescued, I rescued, and you always hear people talk about rescuing.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, wait a minute, who's really rescuing who at the end of the day?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's an that's an amazing story.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: I I know also, you know, in my field, there's a lot of controversy around the whole emotional support animal versus a service animal versus you know, just having a pet, where we're kind of trained in, you know, well, what's the functionality of it?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to write a lot and kind of tell these organizations, well, if this pet animal, whatever you want to call it, helps this person function better or perform better, whatever it is, isn't that what you want?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Don't you want your employee or your student or your passenger on a plane or whatever else at their best?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: And as long as it's not causing so much disruption or chaos around them, I never really understood the downside of it.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: I try to look at it like very practically.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, instead of, well, this is the law and this is the rule, then this one's taking advantage of that.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like don't everyone should just get what they need.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: So in thinking of these animals that support people, it's nice to see because I'll have people say to me, Well, I saw this person and they had their dog and the mom, like, but maybe without that pet, they'd never leave their bed.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: So and thinking long term, and this is very big, like, I don't know, this my brain goes, it's like, and this person, if they are that severely disabled without this animal, they're gonna cost society a lot of money, and that's your tax money that you're gonna pay for disability and Medicaid and other services.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Where if all they have is this pet that helps them function better, you're saving money.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that for a lot of them, it kind of makes more sense.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, yeah, like that practically, I guess that makes sense.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: But then the worry is like, well, I don't want, like, you know, if he brings a dog to work, the dog is like peeing in the office.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you can deal with that, like you can work around that.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: That that's a manageable problem to solve.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm happy they're at work.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you know, and I would rather, hey, let them, I'd rather let them pee in the office versus just think about some of those challenging employees that you have to deal with in their personalities that could really be nasty to you, that impact your mental health and when that drive you home to be sick, and you don't have that fur-legged fur fur kid there to support that.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd rather, yeah, let's let them be in the office.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Same thing, even now.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you're you're following a lot um college campuses now, they have these mental health wellness centers.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times they'll have the rescues come in and bring animals for students to just pet for a half an hour.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, no, I love that.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you said it because one of the things I'm doing is working on a partnership with uh a group here in Atlanta called Pause Atlanta.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because they they they do just that, they go out to corporations, universities, but like you said, especially corporations, hey, lunchtime for an hour, they're gonna bring out the these cute little fur kids, de-stress.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then yeah, let's let's talk about that type of thing.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that's yeah, uh it's an awesome movement to see more and more of that happening.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: I wish a lot of the schools down here, and I mentioned it, like my daughter's in high school, and she gets very overwhelmed with these standardized tests because it's that kind of feeling of like I'm trapped, and what if I don't do well?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: What if I get panicky and I can't leave?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we've dealt with that for like about four years now.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I jokingly said, like, I wonder if they brought in like a bunch of like rescue animals the day of testing that literally are just like you can just be petting the dog while you're taking a test, and her and her friends are like, Oh my god, I would love that.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you guys should write a grant, or like you should ask the school.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't really cost a lot, and you can try it as a pilot to kind of like test it, like beta testing to see like, is this more of a distraction?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Or is this such a calming element that these kids are now able to do their best for those that need it and just kind of weighing the pros and cons?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I wonder how many people, even after COVID, if they're working from home, have their cat in their lap or have the dog next to them and they're just kind of like, you know, petting the dog a little bit or forcing them to get up, take the walk with the dog, but they can still be productive.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, I think there's a lot more like that out there than than than we think to your point.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: But then yeah, if you give the call back into the office becomes a challenge.
• 19:15
  unknown: Right.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: No, this is awesome.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: So with with what you do in your expertise and specialty, are you you're down there in South Florida, you know, with a lot of the listeners here to this, they're all over US and and you know, really all over the world.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Do you work with folks virtually?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: I work with, so it's funny that COVID for a lot of us mental health people was a whole just kind of that in itself was like a trial and error because we never worked virtually before that, really.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: So we started to a little, and I was forced to do it like everyone else.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I realized very quickly I do not do well online.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like an in-person person.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: But what I found through the years is once I get to know somebody in person, it can transfer to virtually easy.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I work with a lot of these 16, 17, 18-year-olds.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Then they might move or go off to college.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: We keep seeing each other virtually if they want.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: With an older population, like 18 to 30, it's fine.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: I've done it before.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but only so license-wise, I can only work with people in Florida for now.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: But what's nice is after COVID happened and the virtual experience kicked off, my clientele is like potentially 22 million people.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I can work with anyone in the state of Florida, or that's a Florida resident.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then what's also great after COVID, if anything positive came of it, is I started networking with people like yourself and others, and just finding good resources.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I always say to whoever I meet, like, if I can't help you, I probably know someone who can.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Love that.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, hence we were talking about the real program, you're the ambassador.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll definitely connect you there in that movement, because that's a yeah, that's a growing movement within the US and in Europe.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's and on the another side thing I do, you mentioned the real.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a friend and I started our own little podcast just for fun, like six, eight months ago, all on men's mental health.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we really focus on like very real, practical, like two dads, we've grown up together.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: He's an army vet, I'm a psychologist.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we get into like the real nitty gritty, like practical stuff.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Not so much like research or let's just talk about it, but more like what is the data show?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: What is somebody really gonna do?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what are the real stressors that like people?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: People are experiencing.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: And a part of that, which has been great, is just forcing me to again connect with others.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: So not only on a micro scale, like I do in my office or online, but more macro, like, all right, like more people like us need to be out there and kind of spread this good information to almost prevent people from hearing the negative side of what they could find online.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's a lot.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of noise.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of noise.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, no, this is awesome.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: And gosh, time flies.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: I know we're getting close to the to the in.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so coming back around to the fur kids.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you've got you've got the two today, but I know before we launched into this podcast, it sounded like you've had uh fur kids pretty much through your whole life.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Since I'm born, I've never been without a pet.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Only in college, I didn't have one living with me.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: So growing up, we always had one or two dogs.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when I was 13, I remember coming home from sleep away camp, and I we had just like this little pug.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden I come home, and there's like this little puppy chocolate lab.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: My first reaction, because like, you know, I had the pug.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like we I had Serena, she was my pug.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what the hell is this?
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I wasn't excited, wasn't whatever.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what why is there another dog here?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Fast forward a little, that dog became like my girlfriend.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: My parents always said.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Dog slept in my bed with me at night.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'd wake up, her paws would be like crossed against my arms, like you would with like a mate or partner.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: When I would leave for school, the dog would just sit and stare out the window until I came back.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: When I'd go away to college, dog still slept in my bed.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was my girl.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Hello.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then when my wife and I got together and we moved into our first house 22, 23 years ago, we adopted a dog right away.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Not even adopted, somebody I worked with.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: Her husband found this pit kind of mix behind their office and it was injured.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: So he brought it to an animal hospital, said, Oh, like the dog has a broken hip.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: We have to fix it.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: You have to keep it in a crate so it doesn't run around for like six weeks.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: So they brought it back to their house, kept it in a crate.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: They had a small kid, and the dog was a little wild, so they kept it in the crate for like pretty much a year with minimal interaction and getting out.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: So we're like, why not?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Let's let's adopt this one.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we called her Lucy again after Beatles song.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, right?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Lucy in the Sky.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, yep, yep.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she was a lot, she was the sweetest thing, but like 70 pounds.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: And if dogs were football players, she was a fullback.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: She was just like stocky and didn't realize like she's very strong.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we played tug of war with her.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: My wife couldn't.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like she would pull my wife to the ground where I could.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember vividly throwing the ball with her outside in the backyard, and I took my eyes off.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: She ran through me.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: I've never been tackled like that.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I've played sports, and I was just like, I'm on the ground in shock, like the wind knocked out of me.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh my God.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said earlier, we'd walk her and people would move to the other side of the street because you know, she had that pit mix in her, but also a little bit of lap, so a little scary looking.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: But the sweetest thing, you know, when we had babies and you'd put them on the little pack and play mat or whatever on the floor, she would just lay next to them with their nose touching them.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: The babies could kick her and hit her, and she wouldn't care.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: That was her baby.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: So sweetest thing.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: So then, of course, like you said before, she needed a partner.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we adopted another one, this black lab mix, got a puppy like you did, didn't realize she was gonna grow into a 110-pound dog.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: So now we have this kind of 1500 square foot house.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: We have one baby, we have one dog, now we have this other dog.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: I came home from work one day, and before my wife could let me in the door, she pushed me back out.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, Don't go in there yet.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, Oh, she's like, Yeah, I need to finish cleaning up.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, okay.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: That black lab mix, she ate the couch.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I did not see what happened.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: She cleaned everything up, she showed me pictures later, just stuffing everywhere.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: It looked like somebody took a chainsaw to the couch.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't even know how to react.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I guess we need a new couch.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh my gosh, like, what do we do with this?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: So then we had to, unfortunately for them, we we made our own giant crate for the two of them.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, big piece of plywood, the kind of cage screwed it in.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it was big, it was like a four by eight, almost like their own little space.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: But they loved it.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we made it comfortable, it was their little home.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that was the beginning of kind of our training on what can we prevent here?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is we always look at it this way, and I wonder if your listeners do too, and people you talk to, like, this is our fault.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is not the dog's fault for eating the couch.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: This is what dogs do.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, what can we do?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's very funny, tying it back to what I do.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of what I work on, if not the majority of it, is prevention.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do I prevent this 20-year-old from becoming an addict or from hurting themselves?
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: We're same with the dog.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, well, how can I prevent this dog who I know later tonight, when they light fireworks off for the 4th of July, he's gonna have a rough night.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do I prevent it?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: All right, let me get my little thunder jacket, let me give him his little calm chew that the vet prescribed.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Let me make sure I have some Kongs filled up with the treats that he needs, and let me use some of the noise canceling stuff we have in the house to filter out the sound.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: And he'll also like sleep in the bed with me, which is all true.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we do all that.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: So huge believer when it comes to pets, and anytime they do whatever, like, yeah, they're a dog, of course.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: No, I yeah, I love that.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: That that's that's uh that's that's close to a great way to as as we come to a close, because I I yeah, I think a lot of the listeners kind of take a similar approach, like you just how you just framed it up in prevention, because man, I'm smiling because I'm you know, what I didn't share with you, um gosh, when we got Carly, our most recent uh female Doberman, um, she came with some serious resource garden and she got into a few tussles with Hazel, and they were there were bad tussles, and we're like, what the heck?
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's like uh what what you know, we had to go get Hazel stitched up.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: And but to your point, it's like, all right, I need to figure out, you know, this it's on us, you know.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, and I noticed when it was happening, it was the energy she was picking up from us.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, all right, there's certain things we're doing that's cueing her, to your point.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: So we got some help um, as we were out outside of our realm at that time.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I love what you said is like, yeah, we need to learn, adjust, and adopt to give them what they need um to prevent you know any kind of harm, so to speak.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the prevention, like I always think of it, same in the mental health field where they're like, oh, but it's expensive to get this trainer, do whatever else.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yes, but you know it's really expensive, bringing your dog to the vet to get stitched up.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Or having the dog eat the furniture and having to replace a$3,000 couch.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's expensive.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: Getting five sessions with the trainer, that's cheap in comparison.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so yeah, if I've learned anything from having pets, working with people, and it's unfortunate, like society, we're not great at prevention.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: We react very well.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I love the idea of even having a pet kind of teaches you like, oh, a lot of these things we can prepare and plan for.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's not 100% guaranteed, but we can absolutely do things to kind of better our odds.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh, you've had our you've had like two or three closings.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: So let's let's let's do like an official close as we come in.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because what you just did was phenomenal.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: But as we maybe as we bring it back to like pets and mental health, I mean, what what would your guidance and advice or inspiration be to the listeners of this show as far as what pets bring and mean to our mental health?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I think one of the best things that a pet can bring to someone's overall well-being mentally as well as physically, it's it's it's multifaceted, right?
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's well, it's giving us purpose because they also rely on us and depend on us.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: It brings us companionship because one of the biggest epidemics they've seen in young people and middle-aged people right now is this loneliness epidemic, which it kind of deals with that.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then it also gives you this reason to do these things that are good for you, you know, like getting out, meeting people, what better way than walking your dog around the neighborhood than somebody coming up and talking to you, or bringing your dog to the cafe or wherever else, if you're in a dog-friendly area, somebody's gonna walk up and say, Oh my god, is he friendly?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: I hope.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: And they don't just like come up and pet your dog, or they're gonna ask you, like, oh, what breed is he, or what's his name, or can I pet him?
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: And those little things, I know it doesn't sound like a big deal, but for the majority of people that are struggling with something, that's huge.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's those are those little steps that bring them to places of mental wellness instead of mental illness.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I I I love that.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: That that's a great way to kind of wrap this, bring this the show to an end, and just you know, thank you for being on today for everything you do and and say, Thank you.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm one thing, you know, people like to disparage the internet.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: If one thing it's given us is it that's good, is we can connect with new people.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I love it.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: And don't go anywhere just yet, but thank you, Dave.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then for the listeners of this show, um read in the description.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's an article that will be following this to learn more about Dave, to follow Dave.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're in Florida, um, well, anywhere, right?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: Reach out, connect, and then like you said, you know, you you may know somebody else and how you can help them.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: So again, thanks for being on the show today.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Dan.