Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / Cheap Trick's Journey to Stardom: From Rockford Roots to Budokan and Beyond [Episode 247]

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Cheap Trick's Journey to Stardom: From Rockford Roots to Budokan and Beyond [Episode 247] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: We're totally booked rock and roll.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'll leave you.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: You're reading Little Hans this, It's time to rock and roll,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: roll out.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: I totally booked.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Booked on Rock, the podcast for those
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: about to read and rock. We're online at booked on
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: rock dot com. You can find every episode in audio
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: and video video segment highlights from episodes. Got a blog,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: find out the latest rock book releases, and also the
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Booked on Rock store. Check it out.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Get some merchandise while you're there.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Author Ross Warner is making its first appearance on the podcast.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Ross is the author of the brand new book American
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Standard Cheap Trick. From the Bars to the Buddhacan and beyond.
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  Speaker 1: Warner tells the unlikely story of the band's path to greatness,
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  Speaker 1: from their origins in Rockford, Illinois, to their massively successful
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: live album, to their massively successful live album at Buddhacan
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  Speaker 1: to the many many ups and downs that follow. Drawing
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: on exhaustive re search and interviews, American Standard gives an
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  Speaker 1: intimate look at a truly original band. And we're going
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: to talk about the book and the band right now
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: with Ross Warner. A Cheap Trick playlist can be found
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: in this episode show notes. Welcome to the podcast, Ross,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: How are you man.
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: I'm good, Thank you for thank you for having me.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: We're having a moment of peace here because you're a
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Chargers fan. I'm a Steelers fan. They may very well
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: meet up very soon in the playoffs, but until then.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, and also I will mentions into my book. But
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: I was I think I might have mentioned you in
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: our exchanges. I was at the AFC Championship game in nineteen.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Yes, oh yeah, we had some you shall be a
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  Speaker 1: picture of you.
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  Speaker 4: With dank me a fas is a picture of me,
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  Speaker 4: I much fatter me, give me the finger of the
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: night before the game, sleeping in my Charger flag. Allah
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: who on the cover of Kids. All Right, So unfortunately
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: Alan Paul also who is an author and wrote A
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: Buck of the Almonds and has written book about I'm
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: Steve Ray Vaughan. He's from Pittsburgh, so he's Ateelers fan.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: I know I had Elean on. I didn't even know
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  Speaker 1: he was.
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: Like yeah iron City Myron Cope. Yeah, I mean like, no, Allen,
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: because I've been basically pestering him for the last fifteen years.
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: I read his book when I was with my wife.
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: Where were we we might have been We're on a vacation.
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: I think we're in a reuben. I read his book
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  Speaker 4: Big in.
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  Speaker 3: China, and I was reading it.
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: I was like, Oh, he likes music, he talked about
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: his dad, he liked you know, sports.
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  Speaker 3: But he's from Pittsburgh.
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  Speaker 4: And then we just started going back and forth and yeah,
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  Speaker 4: I've just been bothering him basically ever ever since.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: So he was on to talk about his latest Almonds
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  Speaker 1: book and I would have certainly brought that up before.
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  Speaker 4: I'll mention it to him because he I may I mean,
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  Speaker 4: he hurt his foot, so he may be at the Mule.
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  Speaker 4: I'm going on the thirtieth. My days of New Year
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: shows are done, but he will be there. But yeah,
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  Speaker 4: the day after the Charger game, he did send me
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: an email with a weird managed sit talking. I was like, okay,
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  Speaker 4: all right, and I was like, I'll definitely keep that
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  Speaker 4: in mind.
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  Speaker 1: But my chief trick, Yeah, when'd you become a fan
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  Speaker 1: of cheap Trick? How did you become?
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  Speaker 4: You know, it's funny I put in the book. I
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  Speaker 4: say this a lot now, but I first heard cheap
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  Speaker 4: Trick when I was a kid. I'm fifty three years old.
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: I know I look every bit of it.
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  Speaker 3: So so I heard Cheap Trick really for the first time.
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: The Mad magazine movie Up the Academy, which is one
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: of the worst movies you will ever see. It's available
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  Speaker 4: on DVD. It's I don't I've ever seen. Even the
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: trailer is wildly inappropriate. I mean, Ralph Macchio was in it.
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: Robert Downdi Senior directed it. It was an awful animal
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: house kind of rip off. It was such a bad
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: film that William Gains, the late creator of Mad, wrote
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: letters to everybody saying how bad it was. But in
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: the movie I did hear Surrender, which was really the
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: first Cheap Trick song I heard. The movie was on
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  Speaker 4: HBO in nineteen eighty eighty one. We had early HBO
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: eighty eighty one eighty two.
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  Speaker 3: I was eleven. Some music.
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  Speaker 4: I was obviously getting obsessed with Eric coriol but music
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: I was starting to get into. And then when I
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: really rediscovered Cheap Trick was in the late nineties because
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: after obviously I stopped going to dead shows. I was
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: living in the East Village from nineteen ninety five, sorry,
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: nineteen eety three to two thousand and five, and I
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  Speaker 4: was going to all those places at Saint Mark's picking
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: up promo CoP's of CDs UCDs. But I got a
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: hold of the Chief Trick complete Boudhacan, and I knew
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  Speaker 4: cheap Trick Budacan like everybody else did, obviously, you know,
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  Speaker 4: I was aware of and I put it in the
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  Speaker 4: book of the sampling of Robin Xander during Jimmy James
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  Speaker 4: by the BC Boys, which I did, you know, speak
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  Speaker 4: to Jonathan Zwikel, who was a backer for the BC
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: Boys to get a little insight into that, you know,
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  Speaker 4: if it was as random as its scene, because for
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: some people is literally when they hear this is the
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  Speaker 4: first song on our.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: New album, the check your head, yeah it's and.
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: It's the first right, And it's the first song on
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  Speaker 4: their new album. And it was actually the first time
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  Speaker 4: they played their instruments. I remember very vividly being in
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: a car in Rochester, in the back seat of my
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: friend's car and we just got out of cassette I think,
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: at a Rochester's house of guitars, and I remember it
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: was like this, this istant the Beasts, you know, because
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: I mean I heard Paul's boutique, but I'd never heard
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  Speaker 4: live concert stage batter sampled, and also it's one of
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: the few examples that people would pick up on. So
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: in the late nineties, ninety seven ninety eight, when they
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: put out The Cheap Trick Complete Concert was when I
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  Speaker 4: started really getting into them, because that's when I heard
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: the stuff that wasn't on the original release. That's when
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: I heard down, That's when I heard off Leaderzay, That's
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  Speaker 4: when I heard Southern Girls, which I knew, but I
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  Speaker 4: had never heard, you know, the Budakan version. And that's
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  Speaker 4: when I, you know, really started to kind of get
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  Speaker 4: it into them. And then again, of course they were
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: at that point back to being kind of a cul band,
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: as you know, you know, in nineteen ninety seven, they
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: tried to rebrand themselves with a great album that has
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: kind of lost in the annals of mainstream not to
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: a Cheap Trick fan, but there their red Ant album.
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: And then once red Ant goes belly up, they are
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: trying to kind of rebrand themselves by being nostalgic but
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: also being you know, forward thinking. So they put out
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: The Complete Buddhacan, which is a combination of the original
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  Speaker 4: Budhican and then Budhakan too, which was all the tracks
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  Speaker 4: they had recorded, including some from seventy nine. Those I
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: know Bunny Carlos had confirmed to me they actually put
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: an additional applause track on, so they're almost like unlistenable
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: the ones from Budacan too. So Bruce Dickinson, not the
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: one from Iron Maiden, but yes, the namesake of More
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: cow Bell. Bruce Dickinson, who produced Dylan's Biograph, one of
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: the first you know box sets I remember in high
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  Speaker 4: school of unreleased material. He worked on the complete Budacan
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  Speaker 4: in ninety eight. Jack Douglass worked on with Jamis into
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  Speaker 4: the thirtieth anniversary one, and when I heard all those
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  Speaker 4: songs together, I was like, Wow, I'm like they it's
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  Speaker 4: been really you know, kicked ass. And they were also
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  Speaker 4: starting to tour. I didn't see them when they were
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  Speaker 4: doing their album shows in ninety eight, which is interesting
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  Speaker 4: because they really cheap trick. I put in the book,
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  Speaker 4: I think they are the first band to do albums
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  Speaker 4: start to finish.
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  Speaker 3: They didn't intend to do that.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think when they did the Metro Stand in
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  Speaker 4: ninety eight, that became the source for music with hangovers.
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  Speaker 4: They did Buddakan, the complete Budacan, so they were doing
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  Speaker 4: all the songs which they had to relearn a lot
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  Speaker 4: of them. Bunny Carlos interviewed at the time I remember,
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  Speaker 4: had said, like, you know, they weren't doing a lot
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  Speaker 4: of those songs. And then they did, of course the
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  Speaker 4: first album, which is some people favorite Jack Douglas album.
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  Speaker 4: They did in color live, they did Eavan to Night Live,
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  Speaker 4: and then they did like bonus.
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  Speaker 3: Tracks sort of.
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  Speaker 4: They did shows in New York at Irving Plaza, which
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  Speaker 4: I missed, the Budhicon, one was at Roseland and then
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  Speaker 4: in the late nineties, I know, the question was howd
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  Speaker 4: I get a cheap trick? I started, you know, seeing them,
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  Speaker 4: So I saw them at the Hammerstein. I saw them
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  Speaker 4: at town Hall do an acoustic show, which was very cool.
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  Speaker 4: I saw them then the following night at Iring Plaza,
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  Speaker 4: you know, and then they were starting to play of
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  Speaker 4: course opening festival type package deals. So I saw them,
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: you know, Jones Beach opened for Aerosmith. I saw them
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  Speaker 4: at the Snapple SunFest in Newport, Rhode Island, playing literally
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  Speaker 4: like an a tent.
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  Speaker 1: In a they would and still play whatever they put
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: a Quinnipiac College in Hampton, Connecticut, near New Haven.
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  Speaker 4: I last saw them with Bunny Carlos out in five.
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: I saw them at the Penny Saber Amphitheater at in
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  Speaker 4: Farmingville with Alice Cooper.
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  Speaker 3: But everywhere they went there were.
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  Speaker 4: People that were just huge, cheap trick fans either waited
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: for them to come to town or saw them at
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: every you know, some of them are writers now for
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: Variety or Revolver, and some of them you know, been
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: kind left to kind of promote the book. But they
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: were a huge, you know cult then again, and you know,
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: at the same time then they sort of re enter
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: the zeitgeist I guess, you know, obviously with the seventies show.
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  Speaker 3: But I mean you can make the argument. I mean,
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: in some ways I joke about it. I think I
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: made the same joke on Pat Francis's podcast.
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: But like Pennywise, like you know, you look back or
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: Zelig and you know, they were almost always there, whether
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: it be you know, Rick on an episode of Boy
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: Meets World or you know them appearing you know with
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: Jeff Garland and Daddy Deaycare. You know, obviously Ten things
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: I Hate about You letters for Cleo plays I.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: Want you to Want Me. So that's when I started
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: getting into cheap trick, booked.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: On rock podcast, will be back after this difficult, Always
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: in Motion is the future.
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: The thought of writing about them didn't occur for like
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: another twenty years. I used to write in the mid nineties.
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: I wrote my own email newsletter before they were blogs,
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: called Justices, coming from the tagline of Tombstone, which was
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: you know in the nineteen eighty four Charger season my mantra.
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: And then I started writing about music around that time too,
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: whether it be in Dead Base, the you know, the
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: Dead Tape Bible, or the you know, the Dead Ends
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: Tape compendium I wrote for. And then it wasn't until
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: really during COVID, after I'd written the book Drunk on Sunday, which,
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: like I said, is a fictionalized account of my childhood,
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: my life, my concerts, the sports. You know, it's pretty
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: much all true, but it's got more of a dramatic
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: three arc structure. I didn't change it to make the
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: charges within the super Bowl. I couldn't fictionalize it that one.
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: It would be too cruel for me.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: But I couldn't go that far.
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: But it was really during COVID that I started thinking
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: about writing a book. And I didn't know at the time,
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: like I said, that Doug Brooke had already worked on
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: they seemed just a little weird. I wasn't aware of
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: the very hard to get reputation as a fragile thing
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: by Ken Sharp and my case, which is like the
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: whiskey box set from Futrick. It's out there for like
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: insane amount of money. And I did not know about
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: Robert Laws and still Competition, although I started reading it,
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: and I did not know even that Brian Krant was
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: writing his book. And the only reason I found out
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: about it was actually went on job on the publisher
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: of their website. I was just looking for places that
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: might be interested, you know, the proposal, and I saw
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: that I was like, oh damn. I was like, I
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: better have a different story to tell. So I didn't
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: realize until speaking to Brian that history was going to
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: end with Buddhakan. So what fascinated me enough to write
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: a book was obviously this insane origin story of cheap Trick.
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: I remember reading comments on YouTube. People were saying, Cameron Crowe,
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: who you know, of course, is cheap trick adjacent because,
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: as I put in the book, Mike Dmones's famous testimonial
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: about Cheap Trick is a huge moment for them, especially
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: when it came out in nineteen eighty two and they
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: were starting to sink, even though they're not in the
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: movie musically the way they were over the edge and
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: a lot of people and again a Cheap Trick played
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: drink police shows after Abundant left.
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: You know, they had a whole video segment of the
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: references on The Simpsons.
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: They obviously had Mike Demo, and I mean, you know,
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: they're aware of all the little name checks that they've gotten.
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: So that's when I started thinking, yeah, by writing a
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: book about them and the Cameron Crow comn was I
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: remember somebody had put on their a YouTube video like
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: they have such a crazy story. What if Cameron Crow
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: were somebody had you know, does like a kind of
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: of rags to riches. You know, this weird ragtag group
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: of Rockford musicians, you know, becomes huge in Japan.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: What would that be like?
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: So I wanted originally to kind of investigate the myths
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: of Buddha. Kan I had put together a proposal for
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: a thirty three and a third book on Buddhakan, which
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: it's crazy that there isn't one on Buddhakan.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: What I also had hoped to.
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: Do was to kind of get a hold of from
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: fond exactly what songs were from what shows there Genny
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: Cheap Trick fans would care about because it's weird. It's
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: one of those live albums where what show and what
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: version were never really identified. He was the only one
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: that would know. He said he has the notes. They're
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: buried in what I'm pretty sure is an enormous amount
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: of papers. He's been releasing, obviously bootlegs with Steve Acker,
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: who's also a Pittsburgh.
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: Steelers fan from Pittsburgh Man a lot of them.
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: So that was something I wanted to get into because
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: again with Chief Trick, they are a fascinating story because
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: there's the image, there's the mythology. Some of it they created,
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: some of it they leaned into. There's them becoming I
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: wun't want to see the biggest band on the planet,
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: but for a moment they you know, obviously on the
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: cover of a rolling Stone and obviously you know they're
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: frozen in time. Is this band from Buddhican? I mean,
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: I you know live out here on Long Island, and
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: when I listened to terrestrial radio rarely, you know you'll
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: hear obviously on w BAB or Crosstalman Connecticut PLR, you
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: know you'll hear I want you to want me here Surrender.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Anybody who's growing up on classic rock radio and knows
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Chief Trick right, and that's what kept Chief Trick alive
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: a big part of it right.
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: And again he didn't obviously know it because Cameron Crows
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: Fast Times book actually where he went undercover and high
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: school in San Diego. In the book version, it's not
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: the at Benatar look that all the girls are sporting,
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: it's actually the Robin Xander looked all the boys.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: So he was a huge Hue Trick fan.
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: But when Mike timong It does sits Dream Police sites,
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: I want you to want me, you know the Chrisma,
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: Robin Zander, Rick Nielsen. Those are the three songs dream Police,
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: I want you to want Me to Surrender that they
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: are forever known for.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: I mean, we can talk about the flame, but they
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: are a fascinating study.
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: The only difficulty, like I said to you off the
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: air with Chi Trick, and I know Pat or Brian
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: or Doug is that you know they're they're not really
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: And Susan who I know you know, at one point
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: told me, you know that she had a full.
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: Book dal like a coffee table talking about Yeah, she
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: knew them.
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: I mean she worked for can adamany during I put
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: it in my book during you know, arguably the most
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: influential time where in seventy nine she was working in
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: cana Adaman his office. So when they were in Japan,
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: she was literally answering, you know, the Japanese fan mail.
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: She discussed with me and Ken who confirmed this that
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: there was kind of a storage or a closet full
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: of the Jazz Benise fan mail that went to the
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: ceiling and she had approached them and they kind of
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: nixed it. I again, or Ira Robbins obviously of Trouser Press.
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: He was really the first kind of fan. Along with
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: Carrie Baker, who I used a lot on my book
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: well also has a book out now I'm busking, they
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: were the first ones to really get it.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Carrie, Oh, he's Carrie. I just booked Carrie. I can't
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: wait to get into that book. Okay about busting and
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: street musicians. Wow, he was in the world.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, he was incredibly helpful.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, I didn't know that.
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, his name came up a lot because Carrie was writing,
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: and I'm glad he's writing to writing, because he was
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: an excellent writer. All these people that I contacted, maybe
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: not Ira, because I was always writing. Carrie got out
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: of writing obviously, got into publicity, Iris Records. But Carrie
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: was an og to use the term I shouldn't be
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: using as a someone as white and Jewish as I am.
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: But Carrie was one of the original Cheap Trick fans.
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: And this I related to a lot, you know, being
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: a deadhead that you know, he was in college. They
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: were playing obviously to cal and he was writing about
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: them in a very kind of like the Lively Times,
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: like at a very almost blogging, you know. It was
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: not a fanzine but like local way. And he was
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: turning other people who would become big writers in Cheap
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: Trick fans. Don mcleees who wrote the thirty three and
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: the third.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: Book on the MC five.
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: Morgan McCormick, who was really helpful, she helped me periphery
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: my book, who would write for Rolling Stone Billboard and
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: turning them on to this band.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: You've got to see these guys.
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: You know, they're a combination of you know, the Move
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: the Who, obviously the American Beatles. They're so loud, they're
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: so charismatic, and it's a you know, four ring circus
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: on stage. And Carrie ironically then in ninety eight ended
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: up being a publicist for Cheap Trick when they came
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: back with the with those Buddakan shows and the Metric
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: shows in ninety eight, So he certainly knows a lot
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: of Cheap Trick and was very like, I said, nice
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: to me, just some kid bothering him. Now it might
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: seem okay, you know that the book has gotten into
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: Variety and other lists, but at the time people are like, what.
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: Is it you want to do? Exactly.
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think they're just it's a fascinating story about them,
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: because again, as I went back to Susan, they don't
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: seem really interested in and being on the record, you know,
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: and I think I'm the first person to kind of
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: just go into a book on Cheap Trick like embracing that,
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: you know, Dues Roads seemed just a little weird, you know.
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: I know, Ira helped you know Rick, you know, see
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: it for those interviews. But I know that, you know,
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: Rick didn't necessarily add anything super illuminating to the story.
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: I mean, like I said, I don't think Rick is
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: consciously holding back to the truth at this point. I
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: just think there there's certain things you know, you mentioned
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: about Tom Peterson.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: You know that certainly, Oh.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: You know this well heard this story.
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: That's another you know thing about you, Trick, is that
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: you know, in the case Tom and they mentioned it
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: at their Hall of Fame induction. But you know, Tom
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: and Rick we're best friends. They went out to England
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: in sixty eight and Brian wrote about and I touched
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: on it.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: You know, Rick talked about well that's what I was
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: gonna say, Yeah, I get into the origins of the band.
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Rick talked about taking Ousley acid, which is you know,
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: you do not associate Rick with being on acid or
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: even making a reference to Stanley barrowsli But he talked
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: about that. I think it was in the quietest and
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: that's where they heard Beggars Banquet, That's obviously where they
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: heard the white album.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Booked on Rock podcast will be back after this Bam the.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: Future Rock and.
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: Another cheap trick fascinating story is that obviously they were
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: hugely influenced by the Beatles. I mean, Rick Nielsen owns
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: every album, every single every pressing, and yet because maybe
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: it's just simplifying it, you know, because they were loud
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: and they were harmonious, and then you know, obviously they
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: went to Japan and got this hard Day's Night like
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: welcome in nineteen seventy eight. You know, they were called,
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: you know, the American Beatles, which that really was a
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: heavy burden to bear, you know, I mean I remember,
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: like I said in fifty three, I remember, you know,
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: Beatlemania the show, like I mean, unfortunately I also remember
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: Sargeant Pepper's movie, but I remember Beatlemania the show. The
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: interesting thing is, yeah, the Beatles thing. They had to
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: kind of hide their love of the Beatles. They were
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: super Beetles more so I think John Lennon than just
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: the Beatles. You know, Rick used to wear shirts, you know,
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: before the sweaters that just said like.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: I'm a Paul.
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: He loved John Lennon. They loved John Lennon of host Beatles.
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: They loved obviously the Cold Turkey John Lennon.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: And Rick has some great John Lennon stories.
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Bun and Rick did record with John Lennon in
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: nineteen eighty in August. It was right after Tom left
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: the band, or or with pushing out of the band,
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: or both, to be honest with you, Rick and Bunn werecalled.
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: Jack Douglas was the one obviously that gave them a call.
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: They went through Ken Ana Manny. I was able to
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: see because Ken has everything like I put in the book.
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: Ken obviously was their manager from the very beginning. There
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: was a big fixture in the Wisconsin music scene. He
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: owned the Factory, which was place where Otis Redding was
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: supposed to play the night he crashed into the lake.
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: And Ken has literally like the limo bills for Bun
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: and Rick. It's another very cheap trick thing that as
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: their band, Cheap Trick has fallen apart, they get a
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: phone call. Jack calls Ken for them to play on
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: Double Fantasy.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: They go.
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: Bun and Rick especially are the two biggest music nerds
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: of Cheap Trick, you know, like card carrying. I mean
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: Bunn obsessively loves drums obsessively. He's a taper shaped cheap
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: Trick taped other shows. Rick of course is you know,
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: the most famous guitar collector.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: Known to man.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: How many is he up to now?
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Do we know? Then? No?
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: I guess there was a website. But he also brought
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: John Lennon. Yeah, he actually brought John Lennon. After the session,
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: he brought them a Hamburg guitar. But they get the call.
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: They just got back from Toronto where he Comeda was
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: basically flown out to replace Tom. They didn't make any
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: announcement about that they played these shows.
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: They get the call.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: Rick has always joked that Decks, who now plays drums,
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: was born during this time, which he was. So Rick
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: has always said that Karen, his wife, has given him
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: a hall pass, which I joke, and he said, I
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: don't think Rick understands what hall pass means. That's not
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: what a hall pass needs to play with John Lennon.
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: And given the fact it's a sex joke, I think
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: Rick would absolutely appreciate it. You understand when he says it.
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: You know, to Quota was the Prince of Bride. You know,
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: the words don't mean what you think they do, but
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: they play on two songs. Bun has told the story
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: that they had just come back from Toronto. Bun, you know,
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: openly talked about, you know, smoking weed back then. So
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: him and John are smoking joint this Rick is is
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: playing a solo and I guess John had said something
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: to the effect of, you know, I wish I'd had
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: this guy on cold turkey because Eric Clapton a was
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: addicted to heroin and be like, didn't really you know,
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: deliver the solo. Of course, Rick and Bunn was reiterated this,
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: you know loves to tell that story is if he
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: was in the room, because what ends up happening after
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: they're not on the album and John Lennon get shot.
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: It becomes another blessing and a curse thing because a
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: John Lennon I don't think was aware of cheap Drick.
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: I think Jack Douglas was. John Lennon's kids were. But
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: Bun has told the story. Rick had a guitar and
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: still does. I think I've seen it picture that's a
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: day Tripper and John Lennon was like, what is that
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: and he's like, that's my Day Tripper guitar. He's like,
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: we had a you know, a cover of Day Tripper
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: and found all the parts the new disc nineteen eighty EP,
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: you know day Trippers on the charts.
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: And he had no idea.
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: So the story that came out later was like it
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: became much like all the grunge bands and Kurt Cobain
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: named Checking cheap Trick. It became almost like a weird
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: badge of honor, like John Lennon called us in. But
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: at the same time, that doesn't quite what happened. I mean,
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: Bunn was he got autographed from John Yogo, which he
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: asked Jack if he could do, and John, I think
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: wrote thanks for the hop like a plan on the
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: bunny thing, and of course he signed it with the
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: famous John Lennon caricature signature, which Rick also has been doing.
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: You know, He's never said that's where he got it from,
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: but it probably is. He signs with his little cartoon
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: of himself Rick does. Then John and I think Rick
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: went out. Bunn had said that he had to go
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: do his laundry, so he wasn't really sure what happened
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: after it. If they probably got really drunk. This was obviously,
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: you know, well nineteen eighty and then of course they're
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: not on the album. And then you know, John a
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: shot which Rick had talked about. He was watching the
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: Monday night game where Cosell reported it. He was watching
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: it the Strip Club, he said, and that was it,
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: so they had to you know, it must have been
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: also very weird, like Cheap Trick is kind of coming apart.
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: They're eventually going to replace Comedia with John Brandt, and
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: they're probably like, we got to play with our idol
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: who is now dead and we're not going to be
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: on this album. So it became like again another cheap trick,
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: you know, mythology like how that went about?
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: How did it really happen? Greg Fredo did a.
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: Book on John Lennon that I used where he talked
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: a bunch specifically about the sessions. But yeah, different and
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: it's a very cheap trick thing. Different stories of that.
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: You know that Rick heard him say that about Cold Turkey,
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: which he didn't, because of course that is the message
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: in that story is that, you know, Rick was would
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: have been better on Cold Turkey than John Lennon. And
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: Cold Turkey is like one of Cheap Trick's earliest covers.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: They love that.
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: It's one hundred percent like what their sound was kind
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: of founded on Crunchy and you know, subversive Robin before
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: they started writing on their own songs. Could do a
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: perfect imitation of almost anybody you know that's voices. Yeah,
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: it was funny because the story about why they didn't
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: appear on the album was that John apparently it said
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: something like this sounds too much like cold Turkey, which
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: had Chief Trick known that, or had fun and Rick
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: known that, that would have been the ultimate compliment, right,
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: I mean, that's exactly that, That's everything they would have
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: wanted to hear. So yeah, and that becomes again a
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: very cheap trick thing because they start the eighties and
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: you didn't ask the questions. But the biggest complaint I've
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: gotten or on reviews is why wasn't the book longer?
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: Why didn't you get into the eighties? Why didn't you
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: talk about Tom?
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: And I tell people that, well, the truth is that,
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: obviously I got a book deal from Backbeat Books, which
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: is owned by Bloomsbury, and they came in with a
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: hard page count saying I couldn't go over it, so
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: you know, I kind of had to refocus the scope
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: of it. But I certainly would consider and hopefully if
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: the book does well of going back and doing because
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: I did enough research for an entire biography. I mean
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: I have downstairs. You know, it's like my favorite progressive spokesman,
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: Doctor Rick, when he says, you don't have to print
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: the internet like I did print the Internet. I have
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: folders and folders of just such nineteen seventies Midwestern concert
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: reviews where there's like, you know, Spy will Love Me
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: in the drive in like Chief Bond Due plays Horn Theater,
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: Cheap Trick review. I mean, just which again I had
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: to kind of use because I knew I wasn't really gonna,
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: you know, speak to the members of Cheap Trick. I mean,
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: I did get a lot of information out of Bunny.
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: Carlos Kim and Ken both actively sat with Ryan.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: Kramp for his book.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: And I think, Ken, you're talking about Ken adamany Ken,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, because I was gonna ask you about
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Ken Voss.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah you also, he was in the book. I put
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: him in the book.
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: He told a great story about yees seeing them. He
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: was the one that told me about the yeah, the
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: wet t shirt contests, and just like that's where I
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: started to make the comparison which I think I included
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: to like almost the Dead and the Filmore and the
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: Avalon because yeah, those bars you know, one bar would
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: end with a liquor license and he said, like people
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: would go outside and like the maybe blazing sun and
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: they'd have a bloody marry in their hand. Yeah, and
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: then then they would go down and said they would
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: go to the Night Gallery or go this or that.
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: And you know there were people on Facebook who had
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: talked about you know, I didn't use their names, but
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: they insinuated the basically, you know, they had to put
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: sunglasses on because the amount of cook they needed.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: To like drive on.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: But yeah, Ken Voss owned the Illinois Entertainer and they were.
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: And they were a huge early It's great to me
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: he has told me a great story that I don't
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: think he'd mind me saying that. I think it might
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: have been the Sergeant Pepper shows where he saw Rick
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: backstage and Rick made some joke like, oh, it's you know,
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: it's the guy from the Illinois Exaggerator and Ken was like, yeah,
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: I exaggerated your career into what it.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: Is, you know.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: But they played the Night Gallery and I don't even
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: know if I'm pronouncing this right. Walk again Illinois. Yeah, yeah,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: and that and that's till like six am.
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: And that's the site of yeah, cheap tricks videos when
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: they lip saying from their first album. That's where they
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: filmed those those night gallery videos. So even as late
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: as seventy nine when you see them on Japanese TV
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: and they show them, you know, playing they were filmed there. Yeah, No, Cat,
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: Animany and Bunn are quoted in Brian's book. And when
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: I started, you know, I did in touch with Bun
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: only through through Facebook, and you know, I asked him,
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: you know, if he would answer all these questions at Budacon,
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: and he said, well, I don't you know what's the
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: book about? And I said, and his exact words for like,
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: I don't think I really want to do another book
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: where I have to refute all these stories of my bandmates.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: So it's like okay.
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: And then like a day later, I just asked him
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: a question about it and he just he basically just
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: answered every question. So his only you know condition was
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: you can say, Carlos confirms or whatever.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: He wrote a very nice, you know post once the
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: book came out. And then Ken, like I said, Brian
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: will argue, and he's probably right that he kind of
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: softened up Ken Adamanny because Cat and Manny you know,
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: is in his eighties now, but I know he was.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: He was a tough dude.
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: Wasn't quite Colonel Tom Parker, but he definitely was. He
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: didn't take any shit, I know that. And he was
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: very determined to get this band heard, you know, to
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: make sure that people knew about them. And he also,
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: like I said once, I think he kind of saw that,
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: you know, I came in peace and that I was
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: just interested. And I think he liked he had said
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: he liked kind of my writing style, which I think
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: is definitely different than any of the other guys who
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: were in a cheap trick that I thought was important. Obviously,
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: you know, you can just tell talking to me. There's
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: obviously a lot of pop culture that's literally around me
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: in this room, but just that are always kind of
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: like attaching to things.
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: And so he was very helpful.
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: Like I said, he has I mean everything, like I said,
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: phone logs, appointed cards, passes, the list of equipment that
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: Bun and Rick wanted for the John Lennon session. You know,
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: Bun is a huge, love, big drum fan, much like
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: Rango Starr, and that was something I put in the book. Also,
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: I know Brian did too, just the amount of blue
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: collar or even wegive jobs. The descriptions of Buddy Carlos
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: I thought hilarious, Like I included a lot of them.
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: You know again, guy that you know, your your teacher,
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: you know, guy that works in the accounting department, you know, uh,
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: night manager at a convenience store.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, it was amazing.
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: They were usually insinuating who his fat, They're usually insinuating
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: who's balding, and obviously maybe they made a combat is smoking.
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: There were a couple I mean that were like Nazi
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: on the run in South America, which you know I
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: would have put in, and people like you sho want
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: to put it in.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: I'm like, well, I'm Jewish.
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: I don't think they really thought Buddy Carlos was like
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: in the Boys from Brazil. I mean, they'd pretty clear
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: they were just joking to hit a mustache. I mean
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: I understand at the time, and I'm well aware, you
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: know I reled it as obviously was in Europe.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: I don't think that be taken that way.
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: But yeah, So they were extremely helpful with the book,
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: confirming stuff as much as you know, as much as
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: they could.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Book on podcast will be back after this come out,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: come out wherever you are. There's a story told that
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: famous Aerosmith producer Jack Douglas discovered the band in the
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: back of a bowling alley. Talk about the myth and
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: the real story behind how they signed to Epic Records. Also,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: there's the story of Bunny breaking his arm I think
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: on that same night or it's part of that story.
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: Well, so Buddy Carlos did break his arm in nineteen
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: seventy six on a light pack timmer that was made
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: for them. Brian wrote the exact show, but he did
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: he had to wear a cast cat anaman. He got
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: a call the night from Rick and this was just
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: as they were about to kind of cement their you know,
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: their record deal. So this was, you know, a huge,
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: hugely catastrophic and he thought, of course Rick was joking,
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: because Rick Courts generally is joking, especially in the mid seventies.
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: I'm sure you know he was, you know, in character
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: twenty four to seven, kind of like you know, Don Rickles.
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: So what they did was they played and Bun essentially.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: Played with a cast.
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: There is a couple pictures of some of the Cheap
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: Trick groups where you can see it and they might
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: have used it Bun and Steve for one of their
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: Bunny's bootlegs, because they released one from the Orange Monkey
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: in Rochester where I went to college of Bunn playing,
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: So Bun's kind of like not the Bunny Carlos that
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: you associated with the Power. And then Hank Ransom, I
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: believe I'm pronouncing it right, who was a friend of
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: theirs from one of the early premutations. I know, you
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: know Brian would know whether it be Naz or Fuse,
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: but he was a friend of theirs from Philly whose daughter, coincidentally,
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: least according to what Brian wrote, was the person who
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: saw their parents getting it on on the couch which
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: made its way into surrender. He played drums with them,
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: and so Bunn had told the story when they got
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: into the Hall of Fame, when at that point I
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: think a lot of dirty launch from Chief Trick was
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: coming out because they were doing all these interviews and
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: obviously they had been playing since twenty ten with his
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: Dacks without Bun.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: Bund had to suit for his quarter shareback.
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: So Bunn told the story that Rick and Tom kind
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: of wanted to go was Rick and Tom, Yeah, they
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: wanted to go forward with two drummers, and Bun was like,
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: absolutely fucked not and he stood up for that. And
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: obviously Buddy Carlos stated the drummer of Chief Trick, and
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: then the early part about Jack. Yeah, Jack did not
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: discover them in a bowling alley. You know, he, like
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: I told you off the air. I think he's very
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: protective of that story. I mean I put in the
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: book even some of the stories. And Tom in the
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction speech, you know,
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: called him sir Jack Douglas and said for discovering them,
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: he discovered them in a larger sense that his involvement
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: with the first Chief Trick album absolutely got them signed
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: to a hundred percent like Jack Douglas, I mean it
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: makes it's you know, it makes him no less important
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: to the story. But they were actively trying to get
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: a record deal. They would have preferre John Lennon to actually,
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: you know, produce their album. I mean they couldn't get
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: to John Lennon. Jack obviously was huge with Aerosmith. You know,
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: it's funny his style of producing obviously it's to leave
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: the rough edges.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: In those early records.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, rock I.
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: Included a quote that actually he put that was from
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: a cigar magazine where he talked out something he learned
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: from John was, you know, to make things loud and
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: that way. Like there's mistakes in there, it seems like
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: they're their intentional. The exact day of the Sunset Bowl show,
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: I put it in the book Jack flew Out heard them.
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: Doug Brood's book talks about it. I mean, you know,
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: literally Jack showed up with Stopwatch to kind of time them,
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: and I think Ken Annaman he said, like, you're not
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: going to need that.
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: Jack loved them.
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: I've seen, you know, the phone logs Jack was working
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: with Aerosmith to the Copley Hotel in Boston, like talking
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: to Jack. I've seen the cover letter that invited Jack.
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: I've seen the limobills for you know, Jack he picked up.
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: So again I get it that, you know, hell, am
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: I to question Jack Douglas or anybody. But anytime this
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: story is debunked, he seems to get a little defensive,
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: which is weird because again he's Jack Douglass and I
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: don't think his resume needs this. But again, they invite
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: him to the Sunset Bowl that night. You know, essentially
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: they got a deal to work with Jack Douglas, which
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: absolutely is what led to them being signed to Epic,
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: which absolutely led to them having a Maxis Kansas City
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: showcase where Gene and Paul show up, which absolutely led
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: to them picking the songs they did for the first album,
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: which were harder edged in production, but also the more
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: socio political quirkiness, you know, whether it be he's a
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: whore or daddy should have stayed in high school, and
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: there are people Bryan's book gets into it, whether it
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: be you know, Side A or Side B, or that
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: to Hot Love, that to Done. That is the best
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: Cheap Trick album and it's definitely almost an outlier and.
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: How raw it is.
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: But he wasn't signed for another album and Tom Moorman
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: was on staff. He wasn't a signed to work with
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: Cheap Trick, but that that's how he became the producer
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: for Cheap Trick. And obviously again another Cheap Trick contradiction
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: and lessing in Cursonario was that Tom Mormon is now
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: attached to their three biggest commercial albums. We talked about,
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: you know, the songs of Mike de Moone would site,
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: so you have obviously in color I Want You to
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: Want Me is on there, although a very different version.
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: You have obviously Heaven Tonight opening track is Surrender, and
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: you have dream Police, and obviously dream Police is that
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: third song that they played at the Rock Rall Hall
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: of Fame that everybody knows them for. So that's how
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: Tom came on there. But yeah, to answer your question,
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: Bun broke his arm, that's true, and Jack didn't discover them,
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: and which again, like I said, I don't understand why,
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: because I mean Jack is obviously a hugely important character
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: and you know in music history, and I just saw
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: him in the Beatles sixty four documentary. You know, there
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: was Apple's thing on Lennon's assassination. I mean, jess On
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: Aerosmith alone, he's a Hall of Fame producer. They worked
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: with him again in the mid eighties. I'm standing on
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: the edge his work on Blue Deacon Jack Douglas is.
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: I wanted to make sure that was given proper because
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: he helped salvage those tapes, I mean, the Budakan album
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: that everybody hears. You know, I do have an audience
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: copy of The Second Night, and I'm actually getting from
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: somebody who bought it or overseas a copy of the
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: first I mean the screaming is not manufactured. It definitely
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: is mixed in a way that it is as Jackson
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: had said, you know, you want to feel like you're
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: in the room, and the room was crazy, both Osaka
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: and the Two Knights of Budakhan. His way of salvaging
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: those tapes, he came up with a way of like
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: gating on drum signal because the drum didn't come out right,
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: Tom's bass had to be recorded. Rick did want to
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: do some of the solos over, which again goes against
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: the myth of it being one hundred percent live. I mean,
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: you know the shows were awesome, and those were live,
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: but I mean there were things that were done to them.
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: It wasn't really the sweetening that they would kind of resent,
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: you know, like when they would talk about in color,
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: obviously they would suggest that Tom had kind of and
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: you had them on so you know this. I mean
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: they suggested the time did this without them knowing or
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: did it with and I can tell you not knowing
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: the inner rickings of the band. Rick Nielsen would never
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: have allowed anything to be done with that his knowing.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the yeah, I want you to want me story.
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: I have a theory on that that I told, you know,
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: and I put in the book.
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: I think personally that number one in Color, unlike the
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: first album, has some of the most amazing material that
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: Chief Trick did. Remember, I mean Rick had recorded or
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: had they they had dem demos or he had written
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: most of the songs that appear in the first three albums.
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: So they have this incredible batch of songs to choose from.
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: Jack chose the Edgier you know, it's recorded in New
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: York the first album Edgier material and produced it in
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: a much more raw way than they have in Color,
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: where they kind of now now looks that didn't hit.
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: I mean, nobody listened to the first album. It was
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: you know, it's given Obviously, Ira Robbins loved it, and
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: you know, some people would would gave it good reviews,
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: but it wasn't selling anything for Epic. So they went
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: the other way and they go to California and they record,
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: you know, with Worman and you know, they pick much
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: more palatable, pop friendly songs. And obviously you could argue
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: on Buddha Khan that I mean, we can run through
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: the track list that all those songs are some of
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: their best material in terms of appeal.
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: Tom was the guy to get them on the radio.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: That's what he said.
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: That's how he's in his book, and that's what he
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: said to me when we spoke. You know, he thought
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: that was his job to make them palatable for radio listeners.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: So what were the songs from the first album that
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: Jack didn't want on and Tom wanted to use for
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: the next album.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: I mean, I want You to Want Me and Surrender existed. Surrender, right,
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: I mean so so yeah, again, I don't think Jack again.
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: A Rick story that he would always say is that,
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: you know, we had these songs I Want You to
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: Want Me, Surrender and including dream Police, which did not
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: exist in the form we know it in nineteen seventy seven.
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: I mean, Rick knew he wanted a song called dream Police.
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: They had some of the riffs worked out, but dream
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: It wasn't like you know, I think it became, especially
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: when cheap Trick was frustrated, including when they hit with Budakan.
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: You know, Rick would say things, and obviously in the
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: case of Tom, you know, and Tom also is not
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: a stranger to having this, you know. Obviously, Stay Hungry
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: was re recorded without him v Snyder. I mean, several
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: artists have had this thing with him, but I think
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: it was this. Jack didn't say don't put it on there.
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: They they didn't know.
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: I Want You to Want Me was a great song.
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: That is not that's another cheap trick, myth. You know,
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: they were almost signed to Mercury Records, Robin McBride, I believe, you.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: Know, on the strength of that song. They knew that
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: song was a hit.
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: But Jack, you know the album he put out there,
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: I mean even you know, Oh Candy, which is the
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: most like kind of commercial that was the single on
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: the first album, is a song about Marshall Min's being
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: a heroin addict and hanging himself. I mean, it's packaged,
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: it's very cheap trick. It's packaged in a loud, hoppy hook.
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: But I mean obviously the lyrics. You know, oh Candy,
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: why did you do it? You don't have to stick
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: an needle in your arm. I mean, you know, I'm
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: sure people weren't listening to that. So I Want You
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: to Want Me was available to choose from, I guess.
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: So it didn't make it on the album. It's on
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: the second album. And then your interview with Tom is
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: exactly what I've seen Tom Mormon.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: Talk about, like, hey, you're the producer, right.
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: And I and I really and he's and he's very
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: careful with how he says it, because I can tell
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: you having spoken to Tom. You know, obviously in a
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: phone interview, he was he's hurt by that because he
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: had openly said Cheap Trick was the best band he
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: worked with, that he had the most fun with them.
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: Thankfully, Ron's friends with.
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: Rick or treating story I've heard, and he and and
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: you know, I mean, obviously Rick is in many ways
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: the musical force a chief Trick. So you know, Tom
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: loves music. And he's also a hell of a writer.
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: I will say because when I saw his book, I
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: actually emailed him and I was like, did you have
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: a ghostwriter in that? He's like no, I'm like, you
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: did a really good job. I mean, who might tell
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: that to him? But I'm not so accomplished. But I
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: thought he did a great job. But he's hurt, and
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: he talked about he still has off leader's name from
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: having tonight. I assume it's the studio version, not the
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: boot con version. On his playlist for when he works out,
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: like which you know, again, I can't imagine he hears
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: cheap trick because he was also getting asked a lot,
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: which we can get to in the nineties when the
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: Steve Albanie version came, I mean again in color becomes
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: this thing where I think it's the frustration of you know,
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: we went one way, it didn't work. Here's another way
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: and it didn't work. And then the song that is
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: the most different from what it became, and Tom said
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: they changed. I mean, they were playing it largely the
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: way you hear it on Buddha Khan when they played
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: it live in seventy seven. It's just that version that exists.
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: It wasn't like they were working up the song. And
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: so I do not think he put the tag piano
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: without them knowing it. I don't think he did the
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: fingersnaps without them knowing it. Bun had said in a
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: different interview. He didn't say it to me, but it
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: was a quoted interview. We knew what, you know, they
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: were doing. We just thought it was dopey, you know,
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: and it didn't work. So and then and another cheap
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: tit contradiction all of those songs. Clock strikes ten, you know,
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: Southern girls, but I want you to want me. It's
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: the part that they don't like. It's the crying, crying, crying,
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: cheesy echo that those Japanese girls love and ultimately will
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: be I mean, back at them on April twenty seventh,
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: the April twenty eighth, April thirty, nineteen seventy eight. That
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: will basically make cheap trick. I don't know for the
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: household name, but that's that's the thing. It's still I mean,
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: you cannot hear I want you to want Me from Budakhan.
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: And you know the building of them, you know, first
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: kind of murmuring, you know, crying, crying, crying, and then
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: you know them shouting it.
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: That that powers the song, the energy.
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: And I know when people heard it for the first
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: time I heard it, You're like, who the hell is
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: this band that is absolutely commanding this insane, screaming Japanese audience.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: It's like the Beatles screams are real.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's real, nothing right, And and.
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: Bun has said that he even had his own audience
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: tapes because he's a taper, so he could send them
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: back to his family and be like, see how big
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: we are here booked on rock podcasts.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: We'll be back after this. I wanted to ask you
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: about how they became so big in Japan too.
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: That's that's another, you know, interesting story. They became so
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: big in Japan.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: And again bands like Kissing Queen. They they love those bands,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: the performance bands.
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: Right, that was right, So that becomes another famously told
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: Rick story. The I mean again, you could argue. I
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: was talking about it with Don McClees, who you know,
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: was one of those guys who owned a record shop
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: in the seventies and used to report on them, and
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: he asked him, He's like, do you think that chief
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: trick is the origin of being big in Japan? You know,
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: we joke about it in Spinal Sab, but I do.
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, they really are. They're they're big in Japan.
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: But what that also means, of course, I mean that
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: is a little Spinal Sab is they were really big
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: compared to how not big they were here. Because somebody
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: to remember, of course, is that Rick has said, you know,
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: they get on that plane and come back and.
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: He stills to take out the garbage. A man made
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: the joke.
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: It's like Henry Hill, you know, with the egg noodles
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: and the ketchup. He's a regular schnunk. They got some
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: being in Japan, really because Lois Marino, who's since passed away.
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: This something I didn't put so much in the book
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: because ken Anamandy had been sending me some of her
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: like early letters. There were a couple of Japanese magazines
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: on Gaku Senka and Music Life. They were huge in Japan,
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: and they were filled with pictures. They looked very much
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: like the Budican album art you know, was taken kind
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: of from that. Oh sab And I'm sure not pronouncing
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: it right was the photographer who also took pictures of
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: the Beatles. So the Runways of course had a Japanese album.
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: But of course, you know, the girls in Japan either
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: weren't liberated enough or badass enough to kind of gravitate
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: to the Runways. Kiss was of course big in Japan
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: and played Buda Khan, but it was Music Life. The
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: actual ricks told the story many times.
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: Kiss Queen.
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: Japanese press they liked us, asked me to write an
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: account of what life was like with Queen. That's how
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: it happens, which is true, but they did ask him. Obviously,
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: cheap trick was getting a lot of male from CBS.
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: Again.
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: Somehow in Color you know, became a huge hit over there,
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: maybe somewhat because of Tom's pop sound. They loved, Like
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: I said, Clockstride Tim was a huge song, I Want
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: You to Want Man. They loved the softened version of it.
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: Crazy thing about cheap trick. As I mentioned how I
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: got into them, you know, they would also turn around
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: and play surrender, I want you to want Me, I
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: want you want Me a little more poppy, and then
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: playoff we Desayn, where you know they're screaming Cyinar a suicide.
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: But I never got to see, and I'm sure Ken
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: has that the actual I saw the cover letter from
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: Rick that said, you know this, this is this is
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: my take. You know, I'm not much of a writer,
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: he has said in many interviews. They asked me to
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: write about time with Queen because they did open for
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: Queen in January of seventy seven.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: That was the last minute decision, last decision Queen.
• 43:31
  Speaker 4: Yes, and again I love to you know, which probably
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: not commercially the smartest thing, but I love to give
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: credit to everything I read Brian Cramp and put in
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: the book that you know thin Lizzy was scheduled to
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: open those dates. Somebody Finn Lizzie I should off the
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: top of my head, got in a fight. So Ken
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: was able to get them on the bill to open
• 43:48
  Speaker 4: for Queen.
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: That was huge. And again they loved Queen. Chief Trick
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: did like they saw with Kiss.
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: They separated themselves from them, thinking that Queen was great musically,
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: but a little more image oriented, a little more. I know,
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: it's hard people imagine the Chief Trick would see anything.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: It's shticky, but visual, yeah, and visual.
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: And as we'll get to and again it was. It
• 44:10
  Speaker 4: was on the exhibit Rix Picks in the Burpey Museum
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: in Wisconsin, and Brian also put it in the book
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: and Kendae confirmed they have it. I mean, the original
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: lyrics to surrender are not got my Kiss records at
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: they were got my Queen records at which people again,
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: you know, obviously Gene Simmons has gotten a lot of
• 44:28
  Speaker 4: mileage out of saying that it's a tribute to them,
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: and Kiss is a huge part of the Chief Trick story,
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: a hundred percent, you know, kind of like I said
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: with Jag, that isn't exactly what happened. I don't know,
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: people some people care. But it could have been another band.
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: It just happened to be and Chief Trick has leaned
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: into it. I mean since a Live Too was released,
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: they've been throwing out Kiss records, so it's not exactly
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: like you know, Born in the USA was a misunderstood
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: song and album, and he didn't like Ron Reagan using it.
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: But Bruce was also super bulked up in the age
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: of Rambo playing in front of American flag. I love skinnered.
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: They didn't like being classified as a redneck band, but
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: they also let MCA put them out there with the
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: Confederate flag behind them.
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: So Cheap Trick has leaned into it as well.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: But Rick, but it was Queen and then they changed
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: the Kiss why.
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: I think it was just random. It might have just random,
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: and that of course, again, what would that song have become.
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: I think it's still a fantastic song if Queen was
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: in there. I think, you know, again, they.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: Either one both bands they stood the test of time
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: if it was like an obscure band or.
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: I mean, Cheap Tricks favorite band arguably was The Move,
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: which is a perfect Chief Trick thing because the Move
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: were so beatles tinged. But it was like second generation Beatles.
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: They loved Roy Wood and obviously.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so they as if they said, yeah, I got
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: my Move records out nowadays people would listen and say
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: who's the move Move.
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: And again, like like everything else, chief trick. It worked
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: out perfectly because they we can talk about this. They
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: get on the low Gun tour. They obviously opened for Kiss,
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: so that becomes a part of the you know, the story.
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: But they did write the article. So they start to
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: appear in these magazines in Japan that are just again
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: very glossy, obviously Robin looking at like, you know, obviously
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: completely uh. I mean I made the reference in the
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: book like you know, Derek Zoolander, like he was really
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: really looking, you know, and Tom and so that appealed
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: to these girls, and I think CBS was able to
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: build off of that. I mean, the decisions to record
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: the shows, you know, I think was a lot later
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: in the game that people realized I had seen recently
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: a letter from Los Rino up until you know, April,
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: which is when they played the Japanese shows, because they
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: went to Europe first, they were still like, you know,
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: kind of figuring out it really wasn't meant to be
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: released here. The album was just going to be a
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: souvenir for the Japanese fans. That's why the songs that
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: were on there were clock strikes ten obviously I want
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: you to want me songs that they even they played
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: it differently that they knew that they would like. The
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: hall was obviously loud. I know the Buddhacan wasn't really
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: even though the Beatles played there. I mentioned it wasn't
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: really made for concerts. Obviously, it was meant for Suner wrestling.
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: They played other shows. I've heard an audience copy of
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: the twenty fifth. There is no copy of the May
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: first show that they played the last show, but they
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: were able to get the hype going. I will say
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: nothing I've ever heard read scene suggests that they weren't
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: genuinely shocked by the reception they got. Every story that
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: they've told about, you know, being on the plane, why
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: are all those people out there? Is there some president
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: of some country on there?
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: It can't be for us.
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: I've never heard anything dispute that the mob scenes, people
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: trying to cut piece of Robin's hair, All that stuff
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: I've heard is true.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: That happened again. Come back to the States and then Also.
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: It fucked with their heads.
• 47:39
  Speaker 4: I know, I interviewed them for the box set that
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: became Sex America Chief Trick and then the whole interviews,
• 47:45
  Speaker 4: and I give full credit, We're a major source because
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: the interviews themselves that were for that box set, I
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: wrote in his book Music and a Word, Volume two.
• 47:55
  Speaker 4: Obviously I was a huge hoofan and a huge Cheap
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: Trick fan and a huge Clash fan. Also, he mentioned
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: that those interviews were done at a time where they
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: were parting ways with Ken.
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: They definitely were more honest than usual.
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: They definitely felt like people that, you know, because they
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: spoke very badly of people once they didn't have to
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: work with them. Rick had always said stuff like that,
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: like we're not going to bad mouth, you know, Tom Mormon,
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: and they did a little bit like when we're working
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: with him, or bad mouth this producer or that producer.
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: Later on they would have no problem doing that.
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: But yeah, it messed with their heads because when Buda
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: Kan became the thing, they were like why this, you know?
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: And again they had been playing those songs a lot
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: of them since like nineteen seventy five, so they were
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: kind of sick of it.
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: Again, I mean the stories of what went on when
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: they were in Japan.
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: You know, Bun has alluded to like some of the
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: road crew and maybe hooking up with girls. And I
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: made it very clear that, you know, women not underage girls,
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: because you have to clarify that, you know, Rick has said.
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: I used a chapter of Jeb Wright's book about interviews
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: that he had done. Rick said, yeah, we did leave
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: the hotel. Like of course his someone tells you not
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: to go out, you know, but they was really just
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: to go to dinners and stuff or to go to restaurants.
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: The famous cover story that Sam McClain did Rolling Stone,
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: some of those interviews were conducted of them having like
• 49:06
  Speaker 4: support o beer in a restaurant, but they were obviously huge,
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: and yeah, people were mobbing their hotel rooms. One of
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: the interesting things about the fallout of Chief Trick in
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: you know, two thousand and ten or so, is that
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: Bun and Robin, I guess the people and Chief Trick
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: that you would least associate image wise, they shared a
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: room in Japan, and Tom and Rick, who again are
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: best friends, you know, they shared a room. So in
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: the induction speech, for instance, when Robin says Bun i mean,
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: they were not on good terms and I don't think
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: they still are, even though Bun does attend Robin Taylor
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: Xander's shows occasionally, which is a pretty big move. I
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: will say I do not think Robin Xander would attend
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: a Bunny Carlos, you know, a performance in Madison when
• 49:45
  Speaker 4: he plays. When Robin said, you know, Bun, it's your
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: turn to change, it's a channel. I think that was
• 49:49
  Speaker 4: a reference to their time together. I mean when they
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: got back from Japan eventually, I don't think they stayed
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: in four separate rooms, but I don't know if they
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: had to be roommates per se. On the Kiss tour
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: they were driving around.
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: In a motor home.
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: But it really, yeah, messed with their heads. Tom Peterson
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: has said they didn't actually see the Buddhacan really until
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: later because they were basically smuggled in mail trucks to
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: play the shows.
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: There were two.
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: Three of them were recorded, one in Osaka. That was
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: another Jack Douglas thing that you know is not true
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: that you know, I know you had done a Budhakan
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: podcast with Rick as a surprise guest. Corey Taylor slipped
• 50:22
  Speaker 4: on is a huge cheap trick. Fan, Linda Perry, Fornan
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: Blanc who is also Atube Trick fan, and Jack had
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: said the album isn't really recorded Budacan, it's recorded in
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: Osaka on the twenty seventh, which he said, well, if
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: the legend is really Budhkan like cheap Trick, Osaka doesn't
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: sound good, which reminded me of the famous Springsteen story.
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: You know that Bruce had said to this little Steven
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: like the EA Street Band, that's the legend, you know.
• 50:46
  Speaker 4: But Bunn had said, you know that basically all three
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: nights were used, that Jack never listened to all the recordings,
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: but his point about Buddhakan being cloaked in myth and
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: legend and you know some things that are not true,
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: that that part I think it's true. And again most
• 51:01
  Speaker 4: famously that they weren't going to play I Want You
• 51:03
  Speaker 4: to Want Me to the last minute, that that isn't
• 51:05
  Speaker 4: a true story. I mean they played it the show
• 51:07
  Speaker 4: before the cover of my book is a picture of
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: them outside the London Roundhouse April second, nineteen seventy eight,
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: which was the last show they played before Buddakan. They
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: played I Want You to Want Me? It's in the
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: I think the New Musical Express review. They played it
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: on TV for the Old Gray Whistle Test and I
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: saw Ken had the letter that they wrote to the
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: promoters like these are the songs we're considering playing, and
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: it was on there, you know. So the idea that
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: the Pavens parted and the big man walked through a
• 51:35
  Speaker 4: bar and there was light shining on him, I mean,
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: I love it. So I think the myths exist because
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: just the truth is so fantastic. I also put in
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: the book, you know, the famous line from the man
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: who shot Liberty Valance print the legend like that's always
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: been a cheap trick thing from the band has no
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: pass bio.
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: And they continue to tell that story.
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: I mean Robin as recently is the twenty fourteen he
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: reunited with Brian Beebee. Originally he was in a full
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: with Brian Peebey whose sin has passed away. They basically
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: played together, and you know, he told that story. Or
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: Tom Peterson has said we needed a song at the
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: last second, and the promoter you wanted us to like
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: kind of flesh out.
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: The said and so we added in.
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: And again I think the story exists because the idea
• 52:18
  Speaker 4: that this song would break them is too fantastic, right.
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: So they did know that it was going to be
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: a hit.
• 52:24
  Speaker 4: They did allow Jack to with the finger snaps and
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: the crime crying crying, but the actual reality of them
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: playing on stage. I mean, by the time the Buddhakan's recorded,
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: I've heard on the twenty fifth you can hear the
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: fans are freaking out. So when you see the video
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: of them on the twenty eighth, you know when they
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: say crying, cry and crying, you know, Rick has his
• 52:41
  Speaker 4: hands up and Robin des so they know they're going
• 52:43
  Speaker 4: to get a response. Now they've now played the song
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: a couple times, but it makes it no less crazy
• 52:49
  Speaker 4: and just amazing that this is going to change everything
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: for them.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: Looked on rock podcasts, We'll be back after this.
• 52:55
  Speaker 4: We'll be back with the Magic Tones for the Armador
• 52:57
  Speaker 4: rooms to our disco swing party after this short break
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: till then, don't you go change it. It was able
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: to interview somebody for the book who's a graphic artist
• 53:08
  Speaker 4: now who they cheap Trick fan who was at both
• 53:10
  Speaker 4: of those shows, because that was another thing that I
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: wanted to do was maybe talk to people that were there.
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: You know, was it as crazy as, but nothing I've
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: ever researched suggests that it was any more of a
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: surprise when they got back when Cannonmanny and Jim Charn
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: who was also a huge help in my book, who
• 53:26
  Speaker 4: was the epic product manager, when they heard the tapes,
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: even with all the sonic flaws, when they played them,
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: I think for Jonathan Little at a wism and Madison,
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: they realized they had something. I mean, they realized the
• 53:38
  Speaker 4: hook of that record was these screaming Japanese girls. But
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: I also understand for a band I don't even say
• 53:44
  Speaker 4: like cheap Trick, because I don't know there is a
• 53:45
  Speaker 4: band like cheap Trick, But for cheap Trick, that seemed
• 53:48
  Speaker 4: a little reductive of the right word. I mean, you know,
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: it seemed like too much of a gimmick because they'd
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: done so many other things, and they were a band
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: that wanted to be successful. They were grinding every night,
• 53:59
  Speaker 4: you know, that is the chief trick way they did
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: want to become successful. They did get frustrated. Rick is
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: a super proficient guitar player, but obviously his guitar faces
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: that he talked about and his acting like he wasn't
• 54:09
  Speaker 4: you know, I used again in the book the famous
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: line from Singles that Kira Cedric says to Campbell Scott,
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: you know, I think you're not having an act is
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: your act, which was just Cameron Crowe.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: And I think also live albums were big though. That
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: was the other thing, that the timing was right, because
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: Kiss Alive.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: And Frampton's Bygen, you know, right.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: So this was a period where if you're going to
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: do it, let's do it right.
• 54:33
  Speaker 4: And as they had said at the time and they
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: maintained it, they were against the release of this record
• 54:39
  Speaker 4: because they figured they didn't have enough hits to have
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: a greatest hits album, and that's what a live album is,
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: the greatest hits album. So when they get back, they're
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: right back on the road. The promoing now Heaven Tonight
• 54:50
  Speaker 4: Japan is in the rear of your mirror. And again
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: I'm sure, like I said, fucked with their confidence, because
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: you know, they were they were gods literally there and
• 54:59
  Speaker 4: now they come here and they're still they're not headlining.
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: You know, they famously now they famously open for anybody,
• 55:06
  Speaker 4: but then you know they were famously opening for Kansas, Santana,
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: the Kinks, Star Castle. I mean they open for everybody
• 55:15
  Speaker 4: in nineteen seventy seven, seventy eight, and then you know
• 55:18
  Speaker 4: they're mixing this album, you know, while they're touring every
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: single night. And I think that's also a big part
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: of the Cheap Trick story, is that you know they're
• 55:25
  Speaker 4: grinding every single night on the road while all this
• 55:28
  Speaker 4: is happening. So you know, they record Heaven Tonight again
• 55:31
  Speaker 4: with Tom Morman. Ricka is listening to the mixes like
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: from a pay phone before they go to Europe. I
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: saw the facts. I mean, they are huge Move fans,
• 55:38
  Speaker 4: and I fully admit that had I been alive, well,
• 55:41
  Speaker 4: I was alive, but if I had been a music
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: fan alive in that respect in like nineteen seventy five,
• 55:47
  Speaker 4: I would not have known the move. But like Harry Baker,
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: sure as hell did. Ira Robins definitely did. They got
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: the little like Easter eggs the Cheap Trick, but that
• 55:54
  Speaker 4: was a big thing, like we're gonna put that in there,
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: kind of like the Beastie Boys sampling, like see if
• 55:58
  Speaker 4: people get it. It always felt like Cheap Trick was
• 56:01
  Speaker 4: kind of fucking with you. Were they making fun of you?
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: Were you in on the joe? You know?
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: And then again I mentioned being Dada. They were this
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: culled band that people that got them love them. So
• 56:10
  Speaker 4: they get back and they're promoting Heaven Tonight. Surrender is
• 56:14
  Speaker 4: obviously an amazing all time song. It's the opening track
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: on Heaven Tonight. It's not breaking. They're mixing sort of Buddhicon.
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: I put in the book the days that they were,
• 56:24
  Speaker 4: you know, trying to fix it the record plan. Jack
• 56:26
  Speaker 4: comes up with a way to revive Buns drums which
• 56:29
  Speaker 4: didn't come out well on their tapes and I've heard
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: audience stage. So the raw tapes, they literally set up
• 56:35
  Speaker 4: his drum kit in the studio and had like a
• 56:37
  Speaker 4: gating sound, like a signal that actually would like go
• 56:40
  Speaker 4: into the drums. It wasn't like a slipshot job because
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: they were still playing every night, but they had to
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: bring any numerous people, and you know, they got it
• 56:47
  Speaker 4: out by October seventy eight. Jim Charn mentioned the from
• 56:51
  Speaker 4: Tokyo to You that chub Trick collectors have the original
• 56:54
  Speaker 4: FM promo album that doesn't have any of the art
• 56:57
  Speaker 4: on it, that was released to radio station. And then
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: another segment of the story is.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: Did it come out in Japan first? Then the US.
• 57:05
  Speaker 4: It came out of Japan at the same time. I
• 57:07
  Speaker 4: believe that it was starting to be imported. It was
• 57:10
  Speaker 4: a legal import. I put in the book Marty Scott
• 57:12
  Speaker 4: of GEM Records, who That's an element of the story
• 57:15
  Speaker 4: that wasn't told much. That was something I learned through
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: Wikipedia that Jem. You know, imports were obviously a different
• 57:21
  Speaker 4: animal back then. They were legal, and obviously they're expensive
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: and you had to really work to get them, you know,
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: the way people talk about vinyl or back in the
• 57:29
  Speaker 4: day when I used to have to trade you know,
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: dead tapes through the mail. They made a deal to
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: import the album legally, and so it said, Jim, you know,
• 57:36
  Speaker 4: I had a big yellow sticker on it. It was
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: showing up in import stores, you know, legally, but it
• 57:41
  Speaker 4: wasn't making cheap trick a ton of money. You know,
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: they weren't getting a very big share of it. And
• 57:46
  Speaker 4: so again Blessing and a curse. The album is starting
• 57:50
  Speaker 4: to spread and you can hear in bootlegs, audience bootlegs
• 57:53
  Speaker 4: from that time. You know, Rick is mentioning it from
• 57:55
  Speaker 4: the stage. You know, we're going to do Need Your Love,
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: which is on a Japanese album which here is really.
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: Hard to get in this town. You know, hold for applause.
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: So it's starting to build that way.
• 58:05
  Speaker 4: And then by February seventy nine that's when it comes
• 58:08
  Speaker 4: out worldwide domestically, which ends all of the import trade,
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: and you know, it becomes now the thing. So it
• 58:15
  Speaker 4: was legally imported into the US, but it was also
• 58:18
  Speaker 4: being sold everywhere else. So for instance, and talk about
• 58:22
  Speaker 4: not publicly correct, it was sold on yellow and it
• 58:25
  Speaker 4: was marketed as yellow Kamikaze vinyl, which that's what it
• 58:29
  Speaker 4: was called. It was sold in on England that way,
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: so some people have those copies. I think it was
• 58:33
  Speaker 4: the new Musical Express had a whole like parody ad.
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: It was like the Daily Car and had Bunny Carlos
• 58:38
  Speaker 4: on it. And you know again and when Kiss played
• 58:40
  Speaker 4: in Japan, they did every single review of anything Japanese
• 58:44
  Speaker 4: included like references to the atomic bomb or to a
• 58:47
  Speaker 4: tsunami or a type like. It was obviously very you
• 58:50
  Speaker 4: know beyond on PC. A little weird thing that I
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: noticed watching the Budicon videos. You could see during Hello
• 58:57
  Speaker 4: there that Rick of course it was doing all these
• 58:59
  Speaker 4: different faces, does like a kind of like a squidty
• 59:01
  Speaker 4: eyed face like at the at the front.
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh, that that.
• 59:04
  Speaker 4: Couldn't evade well, but nobody. Nobody would notice that because
• 59:06
  Speaker 4: he did million other faces. I mean, you know, I
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: think somebody who was disabled would probably notice that, like
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: vacant stare he did or he looked off, probably didn't
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: seem very complimentary, but it was. It was sold pretty
• 59:16
  Speaker 4: much everywhere but domestically, so it was gem Records.
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 59:20
  Speaker 4: Marty Scott was very nice to talk to me. I mean,
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: he was pretty adamant and the interviews I'd seen him conduct.
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: He felt that Epic didn't know what they had that
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: they allowed him to legally import Buddhaicon because they didn't
• 59:33
  Speaker 4: see the genius of it. They were all focused on
• 59:36
  Speaker 4: dream Police. I think what I got from Jim Charn
• 59:38
  Speaker 4: and Ken is that this was a way to kind
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: of seed the market. They did not anticipate it becoming
• 59:43
  Speaker 4: a worldwide phenomenon and becoming the thing that everybody knows
• 59:46
  Speaker 4: them for it, and it becoming, you know, platin album
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: that they didn't see, but they knew that something on
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: the tapes. They put it out kind of to test things.
• 59:54
  Speaker 4: It acquired its own kind of like hard to get
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: mojo as a result of the you know, the import shops.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 4: Steve West of Danger Danger told a great story about
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 4: you know, going and being hard to get the Japanese vinyl,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 4: like literally like holding in your hand like it was
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 4: like heavy vinyl, and that made it just like even cooler.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: You know, the pictures on there.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 4: They talked about they don't like the cover because you know,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 4: Robin and Tom kind of looks short the way the
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: cover is shot, which of course is a continuation of
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 4: what they did on Heaven Tonight and in color, you know,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: was to have the two hot guys on the front
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 4: and the two dorky guys on the back. But the
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 4: next cover, the way it shot, like there's a scarf
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 4: coming off of Tom's Mike's dad, which makes it look
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: like Robin's almost like in a kind of in a
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 4: weird Mister Furley leisure.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: Suit kind of thing.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: A three company like that, either that or at.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: Larry dall As, I could have worked out in there.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 4: But the you know, so, yeah, it was coming out everywhere,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: and then yeah, by by February seventy nine, they officially
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: released Budakon the Only problem is is that and another
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 4: blessing curse thing is they pretty much a recorded dream
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: Police by the end of nineteen seventy eight with Tom Wrman,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 4: So everything dream Police related gets held up, so the
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 4: album's essentially finished. They would say, like you know, it
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 4: was in the can. In fact, they were recording, you know,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 4: a kiss Connection. They were recording the studio version Need
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 4: Your Love, which appears on Buddhacan. Some people think maybe
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 4: they didn't need to put it on dream Police because
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 4: obviously everybody had heard the live version.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: They did it all on one.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 4: Take and Bun has said that they all wanted to
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 4: see Fanom of the Park on TV that night live,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 4: so they just did it real kind of like quickly,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: and you know, so they didn't really mean it's a
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 4: long song to begin with, but yeah, then it gets
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 4: held up and now you know, they're returning in February
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 4: seventy nine. They're playing in Europe, they're playing with a
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: lot of their musical idols, Roy Wood, Dave Edmonds, Cozy Palell.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: They're on the tour where they're you know, all over
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 4: the place. They're on Rock Goes to College and then
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: you know they're also played Japan where now they're coming
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: back for the second time, and they're able to at
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 4: least play some of the dream Police stuff. They play
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: I think writing on the Wall, I think they showed
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 4: the Voices video, if I'm not mistaken, or the dream
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 4: Police video. The don't actually play the song.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: By the way Voice, and then they come back here
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: and nobody's interested in that.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: Now dream Police is ultimately going to become the follow
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 4: up to Buddhakan, which it was never intended to be.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 4: That's the problem is that, you know, for all of
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: the love of dream Police, the song and Voices and
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: the album itself, it kind of gets everything dream Police
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: gets nixed because of Buddakan, and now throughout nineteen seventy
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: nine when they appear on the cover Rolling Stone, when
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: they are they are everywhere, but they're basically covering an
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: album of songs they've been playing since a lot of
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: them since nineteen seventy five that they never intended to do.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: And you can even see in the set list. You know,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 4: they're playing I Want You To Want Me and Surrender consecutively.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: They're playing Lookout, which was an outake in the first album.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 4: Great song that happened to appear on Buddakan only on
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: Buddhakan because the record company did want new songs. So
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 4: to Epic Japan, that was a new song Sunny Japan,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 4: so they put it on there, but it wasn't a
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: new song to them. But they were even playing that
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 4: in sets in seventy nine, so they were really covering
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 4: their live album book.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: On rock podcast, We'll be back after this.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: You must not see anybody, want talk to anybody, and
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: if you do.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: Could have serious people cuts on future events.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 4: There were several moments where I think Epic was going
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 4: to release dream Police, then they held it back, so
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 4: by the time it finally gets released in the fall
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 4: of seventy nine, September twenty first, I know Rick, It
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: said to David Frick, who was then a writer for Circus.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: Then no matter what it was, it was never going
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 4: to meet expectations because it had just much like Budkon
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 4: had got this mojo for being hard to find and
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: kind of you know, diy and people would it was
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 4: cool to have it and it was in record shops,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: you know. Dream Police became this thing, and I think
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 4: as great as it was, it couldn't meet those expectations.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 4: So of course there's some backlash in the reviews that
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 4: I include. You know, were they trying to be this
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 4: high falutin concept album? You know what are the dream pleased?
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 4: They weren't in costumes. We talked about the Sergeant Pepper movie.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 4: I think there was somebody in one of the like
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 4: Sundy Kobol Skill or one of the college newspapers that
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 4: I was reading a review on that said like, who
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 4: the hell whears like outfits like unless you're a Sergeant Pepper,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 4: Like that's not gonna work. I think it really, it
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 4: really messed with them, and I don't think they love
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 4: necessarily at that point their time with war mental though
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 4: he correctly has pointed out, like, look, you make fun
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: of me for softening. I want you to want me,
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 4: but then you put strings on a dream police.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: So which is it?
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: Am I am? I? Like, you know, am I neutering
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: your sound? Or am I? You know?
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 4: The guy that stood in the way? I mean Rick
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 4: has said, well, I knew what I was doing and
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 4: I was proven right. And the other thing I will say,
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 4: and Tom didn't mention it, but I did research it,
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 4: and I do not think this was Tom's doing. But
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 4: he also was credited for producing on Buddhacan, which he
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 4: had nothing to do with. He was offered to go
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 4: to Buddha Khan. He had I think either he was
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 4: either working with Ted Nugent or was going to Key
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 4: West to work with Ted Nugent. He passed on it,
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 4: but he's certainly not foolish for passing on trip because
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 4: nobody knew what it was going to be. But he
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 4: was receiving money, and I know that didn't probably sit well,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 4: but then they eventually had to suit to get that
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 4: money back. I don't think that he was you know,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 4: it wasn't like he wasn't made offing their money or anything,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 4: but he was receiving a producer credit financially, and the
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 4: album it just says produced by Chief Trick, a Blue
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 4: count record he did produce obviously dream Police. But I
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 4: think that also is a big, a big thing that
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 4: kind of leads to Chief Trick not being nearly as
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 4: ready for the eighties as you think, because they've run
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 4: through a lot of their best early songs. Although I
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 4: like a lot of the songs on Dream Police, you'd
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 4: think they're well suited for the decade that is coming
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 4: because they are visual. Yes, they have videos, everybody remembers
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 4: she's tired, or don't be cruel or you know, even
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 4: up the creek. But Cracks are starting to show they're
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 4: going to find a new producer. They are already talking
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 4: in some of the reviews I'd read of the of
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: the shows in New Zealand and Australia, like, you know,
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 4: they're going to look for a new producer.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 3: Which they had done before.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 4: I believe they did reach out to Jeff Lynn at
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 4: one point to see if he would produce one of their.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: Albums, you know, and and again that would have been interesting.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean they did.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 4: They worked with everybody else, right, George Mark, Todd, Ron Gran, Roy,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 4: Thomas Baker, again with Jack Douglas, Ted Templeman.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: So they worked with every producer.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 4: But I think that led a lot to the kind
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 4: of the halding of Cheap Trick, because as much as
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 4: it is a myth that they came out of nowhere,
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 4: it's a myth that they didn't want to be successful.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 4: It's a myth that the song that launched them was
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 4: a happy accident. It's also a myth they didn't deserve it.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 4: They were working their ass off for so long and
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 4: a lot of the you know, they wanted longevity, and
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 4: we talked about it. I mean, even Stones obviously had
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 4: period where they couldn't stand at each other. And no
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 4: one's gonna look at Dirty Work and say that was
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 4: a great album. You know Bruce, I mean my first
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 4: Bruce show was on the Lucky Town Human Touch Tour.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 4: But would Bruce have ever gotten the Wrecking Ball, you know,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 4: had he kept the e Street Band attact through the nineties,
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 4: I don't know, but certainly so. Who can establish fifty
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 4: years of not no pun intended flaming out so you
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 4: know when cheap trick gets to you know, nineteen seventy nine,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 4: eighteen eighty and I mentioned the book. Doug Broad did too.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 4: They headlined The Garden, you know, May twelfth, nineteen eighty.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 4: You know, they have a great relationship with the New
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 4: York Ira Robbins obviously was one of their original fans.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 4: They were fascinated by the fact that New York would
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 4: like them.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: They're huge. They play the Garden.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 4: I have a picture in there from Bill O'Leary of
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 4: Robin and Rick and then by August Tom's advand.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: Wouldn't return until nineteen eighty seventy eighty seven.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 4: He did actually play with them in March of eighty seven.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 4: Cana animate it from that ad in Rockford, his first
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 4: appearance with Cheap Trick.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 3: He played with them.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 4: They jokingly said afterwards that they might not be able
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 4: to call himsels Chief Trick because obviously John Brant was
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 4: in the band and I don't know what the legalities,
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 4: and so they joked like, we're going to become a
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 4: like a law firm like that you were going to play.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 4: It will be like Xander Peterson, Nielsen and Carlos. But
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 4: Tom played with them another I know this is exhausting
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 4: to say, but it's true. Another Cheap Trick story was, oh,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 4: we were at Julian Lennon's birthday party. We spilled a
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 4: drink on Tom's lap. If you read like how to
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 4: Tom Pa just got back on the Cheap Trick. This
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 4: is the story they tell. I mean even even Ira
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 4: in his interview was like that story has always seemed
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 4: a little bit too convenient, which is the same for
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 4: all of these stories. I know.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 3: I listened to an.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 4: Interview with Robin that was conducted in Japan that's on YouTube,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 4: where he'd said, again, you know when you're writing about
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 4: Cheap Trick or anybody who's an obsessive Chief Trick fan.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 4: When you hear something that's different or new or a nugget,
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 4: it's the same thing I am with the dead. Like
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 4: if I see a picture, Oh, I haven't seen that
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 4: I was at from Ron Rakas Archives. I've never seen
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 4: that shot, you know of Mount Greland. Jerry like you,
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 4: so you He mentioned that he reached out to Tom.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 4: They played together in March of eighty seven. Tom years
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 4: on stage. I think it's at San Capistrano. I was
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 4: listening to the buleg on the twenty seventh. In the
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 4: twenty eighth they're playing the coach House. So then he
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 4: comes back to the band. They stayed on good terms
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 4: with John Brandt. I assume it was a little bit
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 4: like the way that you know after kiss On Plugged,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 4: the way that Geane and Paul were kind of like, Okay,
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 4: we're getting the original band back together, which of course
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 4: does not become a cliche term. And then yet Tom
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 4: becomes obviously another member of Chieap Trick and the original
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 4: four back and yet another Cheap Trick blessing curse.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 3: They hit with the flame, which is not their song.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 4: I mean, I still don't like the Flame. I know
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 4: people who love the Flame. They've made it their own.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 4: The solo is great. I don't know if we constitute
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 4: that as a power ballad or not. It is certainly
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 4: not the chief trick that people remembered from the seventies,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 4: and it's certainly not the chief trick people remember from
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: the Jack Douglas album. I mean, not be farther wrote it,
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 4: not Diane Warren. No, it's somebody else, because I actually
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 4: have to change in the book I forget Dian Warren
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 4: wrote goes down.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 3: I should know.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: I'll find out here and as I look this up,
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: this is I want to throw this Tom Peterson story
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: out to you and see if you know about this.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: So Tom Peterson who left the band because he wanted
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: he wanted more songs, his songs on the album, so
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: he went so Long dam And and.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 4: He was married to Dagmar, a German model, which he
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 4: recorded an album Tom Peterson another language. I will say,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 4: I'm like not throwing shait on Tom because obviously, I mean,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 4: he is the inventor of the trailert spring bass, and
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 4: he is a huge part of the Cheap Tricks sound.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 4: There were definitely some shows where he was close to
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 4: not showing up, not because he was like fucked up
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 4: or anything. It was more I think Dagmar really was
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 4: whispering in her ear, his ear that being yeah, like
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 4: you said, a bigger star.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: It's funny.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 4: The actual trades would report at the time, but in
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 4: the book they didn't even report it, like he was
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 4: out of cheap trick. It was like, oh, Tom's working
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 4: on a solo album. I mean, it's the most cheap
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 4: trick thing ever to like have Tom essentially fly home
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 4: replace him and then just not even announce it. I
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 4: mean Pat Francis had said it. He was on the
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 4: All Shook Up Tour, like he was.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 3: Like he didn't even know that that. You know, Comedia
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: was in the band.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: They weren't like that amazing.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a sign of the times nowadays.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: You wouldn't be able to get away now.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 4: And I think it's very It's very I put it
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 4: in the book. It's so cheap trick, like I you know, again,
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 4: Comedia was a guitar player. He had curly mop brown hair.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 4: But yeah, I mean Tom went back to New York.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: City during that time.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 4: He ended up playing in a band called Sick Man
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 4: of Europe, which was actually one of the early Chief
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 4: Trick bands, and I think Chief Trick might.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: Have needed a break from him.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 4: I mean, the reality was Rick of course framed it
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 4: in a joke, but he said when he was always
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 4: asked about why Tom wasn't in the band, he said,
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 4: you know, he went on sick leave the medical reasons.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 3: We got sick of him, which, you know, I think.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: I think it was.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 4: It was definitely two ways. He wanted he wanted out,
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 4: and I think they were they were definitely sick of him.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 4: I'm sure they had to officially make you know. I
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 4: don't know if it was like the Doors where each
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 4: person got one vote, like the way it's depicted in
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 4: the Doors movie, but they definitely had to make a
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 4: group decision on Tom. It worked out, I guess for
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 4: both parties. But I mean, he is He's obviously a
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 4: huge you know, Tom is a huge part of the
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 4: Chief Tricks sound. I mean you can't hear yeah speak
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 4: without you know or forever hold your piece, you know,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 4: which rolls over the credits of Over the Edge. I
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 4: mean it's Tom playing the bass, but it's it's almost
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 4: like it. So, I mean again, it was a different instrument.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 4: I mean, so it's hard to imagine cheap Trick of
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 4: that tome.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: But you were going to.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: Bob Mitchell and Nick Graham, by the way, wrote The Flame,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: all right.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 3: Right, they only tried to the book.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: Podcast. We'll be back after this, Hey, I won't be long.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: So here's the story. Nineteen eighty three, Sammy Hagar forms
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: a very quick one off type of project with Neil Sean,
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: Michael Shreve and Kenny Aronson on bass. But the story
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: is that they offered that gig to Tom Peterson.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: Have you ever heard that I have, which is weird.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: I mean that I heard from Tim Durling, just wrote
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: a book on Sammy, so he was telling that story
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: on his appearance here that Tom Peterson was, Yeah, he was.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: He was a possibility that he was going to be
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: part of that project.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 4: Absolutely mean, I'm sure it's true because Tom was obviously
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 4: hugely respected. And the thing about cheap trick again, and
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 4: this is what I would get into. I guess a
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 4: second A second volume is that you know, around the
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 4: time of The Flame, you know they're starting now to
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 4: get people who grew up on cheap Trick and who
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 4: are becoming stars themselves and people you wouldn't necessarily think of,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 4: I mean, Slash with a hugeed H.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 3: Trick fan.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 4: When they first started playing gigs in like eighty six
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 4: with Motley Crue, I know, Rick was kind of like,
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 4: I don't get why Motley Crue loves us so much,
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 4: but that he became Nicky six is like an enormous
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 4: Rick Nielsen fan. And in his book The Harman Diaries,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 4: he tells a couple of stories about, you know, being
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 4: fully in the throes of addiction. King on Rick's like
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 4: a raincoat that he was wearing this kind of like
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 4: rubber plump stormtree river jacket that he had. You know,
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 4: of course they're opening up for Rat at that point,
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 4: but what they're hearing from people is you guys are
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 4: great like you used to be great. You know, they're
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 4: hearing from people who and the Flame is not changing
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 4: that perception one bit. So they're getting on MTV obviously,
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 4: they're getting now to play Big Arenas again. You know,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 4: they play back at Masks Square Garden, albeit as an
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 4: opener for Robert Plant in July of eighty eight. But
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 4: that's also got a you know, fuck with them because
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 4: you know, Rick, the demo of the Flame that you know,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 4: was presented to them. Rick famously you know, grounded under
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 4: his boot because he you know, he thought it was
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 4: just kind of just shitty, but I think it was
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 4: also you know, he was being told by the record
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 4: company that he didn't have it anymore, you know, that
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 4: he didn't have the songwriting magic anymore. And he you know,
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 4: even said it in his induction speech. You know, even
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 4: if people don't always you know, I don't always love
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 4: my song. So they come back there, they're back in
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 4: the you know, ob zeitgeist, but for somebody they don't
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 4: really like, which in the beginning, you know, they weren't
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 4: even really playing at live shows, that's what I mean.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 3: They played it in the eighty eight, but they kept that.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 4: Out of them setlist for a while because whereas they
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 4: used to be the I Want You Don't Want Me band,
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 4: now that the Flame band. And you know, although I
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 4: Want You to Want Me anig is a great song,
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 4: and I still love the live version, sorry Tom Morman,
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 4: the not the color version. I mean, I've never I've
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 4: never really turned to the Flame. And this is also
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 4: after a decade of you know, and there are people
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 4: who love every part of Cheat Trick's catalog where there's
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 4: you know, there's Mighty Wings that the song from Say Anything.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 4: You know, they did a song for nineteen ninety he
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 4: was Gladiator later not Gladiator with Russell Crow. They did
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 4: Up the Creek, they did spring Break. I mean, you know,
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 4: so Tom comes back and yeah they're big again, but
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 4: not for like something that they are particularly proud of
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 4: or even that they really understand.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: It does allow them to keep going and they are now.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think at that point included an LA
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 4: Times interview I think it was Dennis Hunt interviewing Rick,
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 4: and Rick said, we're to the point now where you know,
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 4: we've come back more than we've been on top. You know,
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 4: people say it's like another comeback, but it's now at
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 4: this point, you know. I included an interview that you
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 4: can hear on YouTube. Steve Harris was the translator for
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 4: Rocking on Japan, and there's an interview with Rick after
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 4: I think it was conducted after the Japanese show. But
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 4: when they finally get back to Japan in eighty eight,
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 4: and you hear it, get he's much more mellow. It
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 4: feels like Rick is out of character. But they ask him,
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 4: how come you give him back to Japan? They asked
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 4: him in Japanese. He's like, because we weren't invited back.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 4: You know, they hadn't been back since nineteen eighty when
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 4: Comita came in, which those shows I assume were booked
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 4: with the impression Tom Peterson was going to be there
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 4: because they were like August seventeenth. I think we played
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 4: Yokohama in nineteen eighty. So you know he's frustrated, and
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 4: you're hear in that interview, you know, Rick talks some
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 4: shit about people that are big at the time. You
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 4: know that he doesn't love Springsteen's voice because Tom Love
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 4: was out, and he talks about bon Jovi, you know,
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 4: even though they I believe shared some time on stage.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 4: So you know, it's just the evidence that you know, Rick,
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 4: I'm sure was frustrated that they weren't successful or that
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 4: that now the flame was becoming this thing that they
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 4: were kind of carrying around as a burden, because.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: It's almost like the song was becoming bigger than the
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: band itself.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, which you could argue now they have a great
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 4: guitar solo in it, and Rick will say that they
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 4: made it into a Cheap Trick song, which I think
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 4: they did, but yeah, I mean there are still people
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 4: that I think that see that and that right like
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 4: you said, and that echoes back to Budacon or even
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 4: to their original bio. You know, this band has no
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 4: pass because people didn't really know Cheap Trick. But they
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 4: were also industry people or people that work for cream
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 4: or circus or you know, promoters. They were being told
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 4: about this band that the original buyer of Cheap Trick
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 4: that was written by Eric van Lustbader, you know, talked
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 4: about the meeting in Europe and having all these kind
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 4: of like weird kind of espionag there's a level stories
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 4: and that's just not true. Therefore, Swedish guys from Rockford,
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 4: That's that's who they are. Tom changed his name, Bonn
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 4: changed his name. Rick is really named Rick, and Robin's
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 4: really named Rob Exander. But that's always been the thing,
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 4: is that it's the image or the hit or the
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 4: gimmick bigger than the band. And is that because the
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 4: band itself is just these really four hard working guys
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 4: from Rockford who love to play music.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: And that is that not enough?
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 4: You know? And that's The thing about the Flame is
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 4: that there are still people. I mean, they now play
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 4: it at every show. I did see something that somebody
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 4: posted they played in Bethlehem in twenty eleven that Eddie
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 4: Trunk wrote the setlist. He's a Cheap Trick fan, and
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 4: they didn't play the Flame. So I wonder if that was,
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 4: you know, a conscious thing on Eddie's heart. But now
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 4: they play it, and especially when they're opening on these tours,
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 4: you know, with Rod Stored and Devi Leppard and hard Like.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 4: I mean, they're people that would be bummed they didn't
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 4: play it.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: You know, Book on rock podcasts will be back after this?
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 4: Never ever, ever, under any circumstances say I'll be right back,
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 4: because you.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: Won't be back. I'm getting out of the beer.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: You want one, Yeah, sure, I'll be right back. This
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: is why I want to ask to wrap things up
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: as to what you would like to do maybe next
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: if you do write another Cheap Trick book. Is the
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: story of them post the Flame and seeing how they
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: survive through the nineties and they hang on, but then
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden there's this groundswell of cheap trick.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: Cheap Trick. Okay, this is a great band. A lot
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: of the new artists are talking about them, a lot
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: of the classic artists are saying they inspired, like you say,
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: Nikki six and all these bands that love them. So
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: then the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and it's
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: like now they're a celebrated band. Right, So that's a story,
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: right there? Is that what you pay? Yeah?
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 4: I thinking about Yes, I mean the only because I
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 4: did so much research for this book, and I mentioned
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 4: that doctor Rick printing the internet. What I would do,
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 4: I tentatively would call it too dumb to quit, the
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 4: fall and rise of Chief Trick, because Rick has always
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 4: said in interviews were too dumb to quit. Even Kid Rock,
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 4: who I think the material was written for him at
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 4: the induction speech, mentioned that Rick has said he's too
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 4: dumb to quit. Certainly the eighties, but yes, in the nineties.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 3: I mean a lot of things happened to them.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 4: I mean, first of all, the raw sound of those
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 4: Jack Douglass albums become fashionable again.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 3: Grunge becomes huge.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 4: I mean you mentioned obviously Nikki six, but I mean
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 4: Billy Jarmstrong, huge Chief Trick fan. I mean Billy Corgan.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 4: There's a Melody Maker article where he's talking about Chief Trick.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 4: I mean, these people are literally begging them to get
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 4: off of these like it wasn't quite county fair level shows.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 4: But I mean, again another Chief Trick thing. It's almost
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 4: a badge of honor that they'll play anywhere for anything.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 4: Although Rick did say you can read it's in the
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 4: Guardian twenty sixteen that he wouldn't play the Republican National Convention.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 4: He made a joke like, you know, we're gonna make
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 4: guitars with swastikas, which you know a lot of the people,
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 4: I'm sure kid Rock especially wouldn't want.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: To hear that.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean it is a huge come down.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 4: They're opening for bands that used to be opening for
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 4: them and then in the nineties, Yeah, they become when
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 4: I discovered them, they become hip again.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 3: But you know, it's how do they how do you
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 3: like you said, how do they survive?
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: That?
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 4: It's kind of amazing confluence and events because you know
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 4: they do. You wake up with the Monster, which that Templeman.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: I love that album.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: Another another and the.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 3: Only Cheap Trick album to not have the logo.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 4: We didn't talk about it in the infamous Christopher Crowe
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 4: typewriter logo, you know, I put it in the book.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 4: They're on Beavis and butt Heead, Beriavis and Butthheader making
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 4: fun of the video. And Bunn had told me that,
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 4: you know, he doesn't have kids, but that his you know,
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 4: nieces and nephews. He got a lot of mileage out
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 4: of they made fun of by Beabs and butt Heead.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 4: But I do say, like, you know, he's the drummer
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 4: that looks like he looks like the guy the Billguart
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 4: all the beer, but like nothing is going right for them.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 4: And then in nineteen ninety five they part ways with
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 4: Ken which I think and again there was obviously legalities there,
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 4: you know. Again they wanted to keep going, and they
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 4: were frustrated, like how do we keep one foot in
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 4: the past, not become a legacy act? That the thing,
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 4: but how do we stay current? And they start doing
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 4: these these trick fests much like Hiss conventions. I think
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 4: it was, I don't know if it was Ramata in
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 4: nineteen ninety five, but they realize, you know, how beloved
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 4: they are by It's not going to necessarily make them
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 4: on the cover Rolling Stone, but how beloved they are.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 3: And simultaneously like you said.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 4: Pro Jam plays Boudakan in February of ninety five, Eddie
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 4: does a little vocal tag I want you to want me.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 4: I did meet the researching this Rob Kilroy, who is
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 4: a super fan I found online because his wife, as
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 4: a writer, wrote about him. He actually turned out was
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 4: a roadie for them for Pro Jam now in like
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 4: ninety two ninety three, and they Michael Creedy especially and
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 4: Jeff Ayman, and I didn't know that I would obviously
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 4: be using Creedy's forward. I mean they were like the
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 4: way I would, you know, find out if somebody had
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 4: a rear you know, dead board that I had never heard.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 4: I mean, they were pushing him. They were trading tapes
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 4: they wanted like he had the video from Buda Khan.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 4: I mean, they were that level of t trick fans.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 4: So by ninety five now they're getting referenced by all
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 4: these bands, Nirvana, the stuff that would be in a
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 4: second volume you'll see in the last chapters where I
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 4: did a lot of the you know, this is how
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 4: cheap Trick pops up in pop culture.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 3: This is their story.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 4: And Kirk Cobain, I mean Kirk Cobain obviously dies when
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 4: they're promoting Wake Up with a Monster in Japan, of
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 4: all places, and there's an interview you see it online.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 3: It was on axe Wave, which.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 4: Was a Japanese interview show of you know, Rick and Robin,
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 4: you know, talking and they had just found out about,
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 4: you know, Kirk Cobain, and Kirk Cobain did say it's
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 4: in the liner notes incesticide. He makes a comment about,
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 4: you know, with another we could have been basically Nirvana,
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 4: that is, we could have been like a version of
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 4: the Knack or Cheap Trick with ladder guitars. I don't
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 4: think Kirk Cobain was a chief Trick fan.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 3: I know the girl was.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 4: But then again Rick makes a comment, I mean, he's
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 4: really shaken obviously by hearing about Kirk Cobain, and he
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 4: does say later like every generation has to have a
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 4: martyr like this and Jim Morrison, but he doesn't mention,
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 4: which you know, everybody started to talk about, like the
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 4: story with Sean Lennon that Kirk co bang was a
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 4: Cheap Trick fan. He said he was a big fan
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 4: of ours, you know, and that becomes a big thing
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 4: in the nineties, Like you said, everybody's name checking them
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 4: you know, like I said, the Beasties, the seventies show
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 4: that would probably.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: I mean again it was cool to like cheap tricks, right,
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: and they and again.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 4: That's when and they are now celebrating Buddakan in ninety
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 4: eight with all this stuff and they're playing it. The
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 4: road to get into the Hall of Fame. I don't
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 4: think was so easy. I think they were up for
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 4: induction thirteen years, but it got to the point where
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 4: they got it on their first try.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 3: But I know, you know, there used to be that Got.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 4: Trickford website that I think Rol McCready, I mean, Chad Smith,
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 4: the Chili pet I mean, every single person, Yeah, becomes like,
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 4: you know, Mention's cheap trick, and that of course makes them,
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 4: you know, relevant again, but it's it's funny. Also there's
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 4: an element of the cheap trick fan base, you know
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 4: that is far back as the mid eighties, Like why
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 4: do they sully themselves right?
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 3: Opening for bands?
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 4: I mean I read an interview or an article from
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 4: nineteen ninety from the Buffalo News about them opening for
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 4: Heart the first time. I mean this was you know,
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 4: nineteen ninety, and they were like, this is such a
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 4: great band you know, and I know you know Billier
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 4: Jo Armstrong I think was a neighbor of Rick Niels
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 4: since he left him like a note in the nineties,
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 4: like on his porch, like you guys need to you know,
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 4: you need to like remember who you are, like your
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 4: fucking cheap trick, Like how are you doing this to yourselves?
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 3: And then it played Lollapalooza, which.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 4: Turned out to be the Ramones farewell tour. There's some
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 4: footage out there of a ponytailed Robin singing surrendered with
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 4: Joey Yeah, and they try it. They put out you know,
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 4: that great album in ninety seven, that self titled cheap
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 4: Trick album, which you know again very intentionally twenty years
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 4: I guess from the first Jack Douglas album. It's in
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 4: black and white, it doesn't include them. It has you
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 4: know on the front this time, but has Rick and
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 4: fun set and on the back has you know, obviously
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 4: the bass, and I forget what's on the back that
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 4: alludes to Robin. And it's their best original album since
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 4: Dream Police. I don't know, I mean, there are people,
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 4: oh it's and people love it. And of course it's
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 4: on red Ant Records, which I think was headed out
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 4: here in glen Cove and it immediately goes bankrupt. And
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 4: then so they had this great album that nobody hears.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 4: They play these songs live and then again, like I said,
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 4: twenty years Budukon is ninety eight, and that's when I think,
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 4: on one hand, their psych to commemorate their great work,
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 4: it comes out in a complete concert. Like I said that,
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 4: I you know that I first heard, and Bruce Dickinson
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 4: works on remastering the tapes and they resequts it so
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 4: that it sounds like not the exact set, because again
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 4: Buddakan was three shows used, and that must have been
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 4: really weird for them. I mean, I know Carrie Baker
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 4: worked with them, bu Bulozki wise, I don't know. Like
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 4: I said, he must have just been a weird feeling
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 4: because again, kind of like in nineteen seventy seven, they
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 4: took their shot to maybe have that late career although
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 4: I mean, who knows what late career is rechievedreg later
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 4: in career success, and it doesn't land, not because the
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 4: songs weren't good, because the album goes bankrupt. And then
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 4: that's also when they re record in color unofficially with
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 4: Steve Albini, which also becomes the stuff of legend and
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 4: why do they do that?
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 3: And what does that say about Tom Werman.
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 4: You know, they have like a sub pop single right
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 4: around that time as well, so they're becoming you know
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 4: again big and grunch Circle. But ninety eight they go
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 4: back and they re release you know, Buddha Khan and
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 4: they end up playing them. Those were great shows. I
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 4: wish I had gone. They played you know, fan Club,
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 4: which you know I would have loved to heard. It's
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 4: only in their first ardent demo and they did all this.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 4: You know, I think the last Irban Plaza show, they
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 4: made a joke about Gene Simmons.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 3: You know, they had a fake Gean Simmons there.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 4: I forget it was Halloween, but it must have been
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 4: weird for them because they again they can't really reconcile.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 4: They have one foot in the past and one foot
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 4: in the present. And again, like I said, they keep
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 4: popping popping up. You know, Ricause in Disorderly is with
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 4: the Fat Boys. You know, he appears on an episode
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 4: of Boy Meets World. Like mentioned, Babes and Buttthead. They're
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 4: always kind of there or were they? You know, or
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 4: they are they no longer popular, so it must it
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 4: just must have been very frustrating, and that's what i'd
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 4: like get into. I think like a second but I
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 4: don't know. I mean, i'd like think maybe there are
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 4: people who didn't want to necessarily speak the first time
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 4: around that you know, might be more interested if the
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 4: book does well enough once it got into the Variety list,
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 4: which you know that was also because some of the
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 4: writers are also a huge Chief Trick fans. But they
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 4: did like the book. I mean that gave it a
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 4: sense of legitimacy that maybe it didn't have before, as
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 4: opposed to like, you know, I mentioned Government Mule Danny Lewis,
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 4: who is the keyboards of Government Mule. Apparently I'd forgotten
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 4: this was in the Sergeant Pepper Vegas Chief Trick shows
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 4: with the Cheap Trick, and apparently he's still good friends
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 4: with Rick Nielson.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 3: I did not know this.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 4: A friend of mine is friendly with Danny, so yeah,
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 4: he sent it the book, and I didn't realize that
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 4: they still to this day like talk, so maybe he'd
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 4: be interested in talking about that. Those of course, were
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 4: the last shows really that Bun played with them, and
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 4: that that was the source of the the initial tension,
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 4: although again it didn't come out until like five years later.
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 3: But I think Bunn had wanted them if they.
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 4: Were going to play Vegas. And if you look back,
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 4: I mean Bun might had the right idea, because I'm
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 4: not saying residencies are the right thing. I mean, I
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 4: don't know Santana or anything, but like you know, his
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 4: attitude was, we're gonna do this, we should do it
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 4: for a giant block of time. It also, of course,
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 4: you know, had back surgery and as early as two
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 4: thousand and one decks you know, had subbed for him.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 3: That we ends up and again. And a weird cheap
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 3: trick kind of contradiction.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 4: It's the Beatles that you know, kind of breaks them apart,
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 4: you know, because they cover Sergeant Pepper. Half those songs,
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 4: all those songs were never played by the Beatles, certainly
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 4: not live. And the genius the cheap trick is they
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 4: were always kind of shaded as being the American Beatles,
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 4: and they play that album so fucking good that they reminded, Yeah,
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 4: if we wanted to be a Beatles cover band, we
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 4: literally would have been the best Beatles cover band there ever.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 4: Was and if you ever to rob and cover Rebel,
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 4: Rebel or stuff that's out there from when they were
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 4: doing covers, I mean they could have been.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: They just they did Magical Mystery Tour. They included that
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: on the Greatest Hits, and my older brother had the cassette.
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: I just remember hearing that version. I was like, oh, yeah,
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: these guys are definitely fans of Beetles and they are
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: doing them justice too.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 4: And then they's and you know that that that when
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 4: they come back in, you know with the drums, I
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 4: mean that bun is you know. Yeah, And that's the
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 4: genius again of Cheap Trick is they had to almost
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 4: hide how big Beatles fans they were. And have you
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 4: listened to again, this is something Rick is very you know,
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 4: long before Easter eggs or fans service became terms you
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 4: listened to.
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 3: Uh and it ain't that a shame. There's a little
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 3: of down down now now, I.
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 4: Mean, you know, obviously that was you know, And again
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 4: I spoke to Steve Berman and Pitchfork. He had said
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 4: that he felt like all Cheap Tricks sound was generated
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 4: from the middle part of Birthday by the Beatles. I mean,
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 4: you know, Dave Marsh obviously was a huge writer for
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 4: before he became Bruce's de facto biographer. He was huge
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 4: with obviously Cream. You know, he felt that cheap Trick
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 4: had lifted, like, you know, certain elements and it was
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 4: the heavier Beatles. It was not the you know, the
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 4: s but yeah, I mean still though.
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: Just the way the songs are crafted, the hooks, harmonies, melodies, That's.
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 3: What Bun said. It's just the you couldn't be You
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 3: could either be loud or you could beat or you
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 3: could have harmonies.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 4: You couldn't have both. And he's like it because we
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 4: did that. We were you know, the American Beatles, or
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 4: we were you know, likened to the Beatles. And again,
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 4: that is a very heavy burden to carry, and especially
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 4: in the seventies. I mentioned Beatlemania. You know, I could
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 4: get into this in a second volume. When they work
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 4: with George Martin, I mean George Martin was not Sir
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 4: George mart he was obviously George Martin.
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 3: The Beatles.
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 4: I don't know that working with George Martin had some
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 4: of the prestige. I mean it was a huge deal
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 4: and a huge deal for them, but I don't know
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 4: that it was necessarily. You know that was also a
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 4: weird time. Again, you know, John Lennon was killed in
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 4: nineteen eighty. Obviously, the Beatles have never left us, and
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 4: are you know, continue obviously as long as they keep
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 4: finding Peter Jackson directed Nuggets a video and the Vault
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 4: look keep playing them ount but you know, I mean,
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 4: they're I don't want to say that their famous ever ended,
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 4: but obviously it's gone up and down in different ways.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean the Sergeant Pepper shows, it's amazing.
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 4: I mean, again, those songs are so complex, Like people
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 4: pointed out, I mean, the Beatles didn't even play them
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 4: on stage. You know, Paul and No obviously played certain songs,
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 4: but they did them all and they sounded great. And
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 4: obviously they you know, did some versions at the Greek
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 4: with John Osbourne and they had you know, some some
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 4: supplemental you know, arrangements, but they could they could play
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 4: them and if they wanted to, and that's the genius.
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 3: Like of course were beoples super fans, but they couldn't.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 3: They couldn't say that.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 4: That's what I found so interesting was that when they
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 4: were blowing up Cheap Trick, you'd see elements of it
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 4: I mean I saw the original Budhkan the actual questionnaire
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 4: as they filled out like that went to uh, I
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 4: guess they were written the Japanese fans magazines and that's
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 4: like Tom like favorite composer, and he put like you
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 4: know John Lennon, like Richard Nielsen. But like in public
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 4: you could see interviews with Tom or he'd be like, oh,
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 4: everybody thinks for like the Beatles, like you know, I mean,
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 4: come on, like you know, everything they do isn't great,
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 4: Like you're not gonna be playing this boy when you're
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 4: like forty years old.
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 3: They almost had to hide it.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 4: There was a great interview with them that Aasam McClain
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 4: who did the Rolling Stone piece where they were riding
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 4: around and their their gmc beach comber that they got
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 4: for the The Love Guy. Towards they drove to Canada
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 4: and they were trying to drop her off and like
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 4: she was mentioning and she's a great writer, so she
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 4: was mentioning like all the different scenes in the bus
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 4: and you know, Tom is I think humming a Beatles song?
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 3: But like you know, again.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 4: Publicly they had to act like, well, no, we're not
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 4: we're not influenced by the Beatles, because just like the
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 4: clip that appears in The Beatles sixty four a Ringo,
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 4: you know when they're asked, you know, you guys are
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 4: just American Elvis Presley's and he's like, you know, that's
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 4: not true. When either the Elvis thing, I mean, they're
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 4: just they really are like a fascinating band, and one
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 4: the guy will say about cheap shrig You will ask me,
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 4: like you get tired of like listen to them, I don't.
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know, again, I stayed to the seventy
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 4: five to eighty part because that's what I thought everybody
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 4: knows about them. I wanted to just be about Budda Khan.
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 4: That's what I thought the average person if I was
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 4: looking to be more broad in my appeal. I mean, again,
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 4: there are people that are obsessed with Dan Fouts like
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 4: I am, but that that isn't necessarily going to be
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 4: a thing. That's where I think I could really get
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 4: into the next part of their story because it just
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 4: they they really are just just fascinating because they're always
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 4: either always with us or they dropped out like it's
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 4: you know, it's not really like they did need to
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 4: come back. But at the same time, like they kind
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 4: of were just always they were always playing, no matter
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 4: what whatever it took for them. Again on stage, it
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 4: was opening fine. I don't know they didn't love that.
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 4: I'm sure they didn't love opening up for you know,
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 4: for a rat they would you know. I only bun
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 4: release book on that recently, in a book A Great Prata.
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 4: But they just kept going and going and going, and
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 4: they worked with all these producers. They tried to stay
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 4: hit making and like I said, it's it is interesting
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 4: though that through the eighties they really did fall off.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 4: You mentioned the nineties, and you think they would have
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 4: just been like the perfect the eighties band because the
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 4: way it looked, because they were charismatic. I mean, they
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 4: did do good, you know, some good videos, but I
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 4: also think just again, they had been through so much
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 4: by that time, you know, personnel wise, some of the
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 4: tension probably behind the scenes, fatigue, frustration because you know,
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 4: they had become so big for something that they didn't
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 4: necessarily want or expect, and it just done. Maybe like
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 4: eight podcasts, I'm always like to this point in the
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 4: interview and I'm like, I'm still amazed they just there's
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 4: such a ripe topic I think to write about. But
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 4: again the problem is there's you're not going to get
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 4: a definitive story from the members about any one thing.
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 4: And I don't think unless they're playing something, you know,
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 4: for the fiftieth I don't think they're going to put
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 4: out an official book ever.
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 3: I put in my book.
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 4: I mean, every cheap shrit fan would read it. I'd
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 4: love it, but I don't think I mean even the Beatles.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 4: You know, we have the anthology book and I have
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 4: the coffee table book on the Stones, but do we
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 4: really consider those to be And Keith Richards wrote a book,
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 4: I guess because that's definitive, but you know, would that
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 4: even like be the definitive work on them? So, and
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 4: they're still recording, I mean the three obviously original members
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 4: and Decks. They have an album coming out next year.
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 4: I don't think they made an announcement, but they'll play
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 4: obviously with Rod Stewart, and that'll be Rod's last big tour,
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 4: he says. People keep asking me, like, do I think
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 4: they could put out more archival releases like that Live
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 4: the Whiskey Box that I would assume. Some of the
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 4: problem with that is obvious that the four members don't
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 4: really speak to each other. Bun has a lot of
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 4: the tapes. Those tapes for the Whiskey box set were
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 4: I think found in a warehouse. They were recorded multi
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 4: track at while the Hire studios, and that's when they
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 4: were working on in Color, you know, with Tom Wrman.
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 4: But they ironically never planned on releasing those, which is
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 4: crazy because everybody loves them. They have, you know, all
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 4: sorts of deep cuts, the Jack Douglas stuff. They appeared
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 4: on the box set in ninety six, and then there
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 4: was a record Store Day release the out to Get You,
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 4: which is a line from Mello Kiddies from the first album.
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 4: And now there's a four CD Real Gone box set
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 4: which I got it when it came out, and then
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 4: I proceeded to sell it, you know, as I was
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 4: trying to pay for some of the photos for this book,
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 4: and I made obviously copies of it. But it sells
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 4: for a ton now if you look at it Live
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 4: the Whiskey for CDs, and I would assume that that's
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 4: part of that reason they haven't put out more archival stuff.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 4: Bun has recordings, but at another them I think are
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 4: multi track. I mean, he puts them out every Monday
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 4: on YouTube.
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 3: I mean he has everything. He has demos, and he
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 3: has bark club shows.
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: And he has oh I didn't know that people his
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: YouTube channel.
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 4: Yes, one hundred he is him because the Bunnies boot
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 4: legs were the series of CDs that he was putting
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 4: out in the early two thousands. Again, he was, you know,
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 4: all the cheap trick newsletters. People would you know, talk
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 4: to him about. I mean, he had everything. So they
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 4: put out a bunch of Bunnies boot legs that had
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 4: his face on it, and those where fan club CDs.
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 3: Only now those are for free on YouTube.
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 4: I assume I did not ask, but I assume that
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 4: putting it on YouTube is kind of a quasi legal thing.
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 4: I mean, I will admit, like I said the dead
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 4: headed me, I've downloaded every one of them, converted damp
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 4: three and put it on like sixty different hard drives
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 4: because for some reason I think that like it will
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 4: go away.
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: I don't know why, but comes and still have. Yeah,
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 2: I don't cop.
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I like thirteen hard drives. I don't know why.
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 4: It's it's like an office space when round Livingston's Like,
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 4: I have forty subscriptions to vibe you know. But uh,
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 4: but Bunny's boot legs are great, and he, like I said,
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 4: he has. He recently put out a love Gun opening
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 4: set from San Diego on August nineteenth, which no audio
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 4: of them opening for Kiss existed except for a really
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 4: shitty audience copy of them from Seattle. They were playing
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 4: I Want You To Want Me on those shows. He
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 4: has pretty much everything, And what I would assume is
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 4: that that was also a subject of litigation, because again
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 4: he was always the band's archivist and kept, you know,
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 4: like I said, all the recordings, so I would soon
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 4: when he had to sue for his twenty five percent
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 4: back that I assumed that somewhere in the legal documents
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 4: his recordings became I mean, the cheap trick. Social accounts
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 4: do promote them. I don't think the four members themselves
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 4: will will ever get back together, but Bunn has been
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 4: releasing them, including the ones that were only available on
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 4: cdreat and they're great again, raw recordings of everything, like
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 4: I said, demos, sketches of songs, the aforementioned thing I
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 4: mentioned about Dream Police. He posted I forget which woman?
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 4: If you just got a Bunny's bootlegs on YouTube. He
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 4: has a channel and usually him and I don't know
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 4: if I'm pronouncing it correctly, if it's Steve Acri or Acri,
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 4: but he is bunch from way back in the day.
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 3: I think he interviewed him like a seventy seven. I
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 3: know he's from Pittsburgh, and I know he's.
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: A Steelers another Steelers fans, exactly.
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 4: The most of myron cope is, you know, is haunting
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 4: my my very presence. They've yeah, they've been releasing stuff
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 4: and it's great. It's great to hear. And it has,
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 4: like I said, a couple of the at least one
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 4: of the shows with two drummers, but you can hear
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 4: the difference. You can hear it's kind of like muffled,
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 4: because again Bun has a very distinctive kind of snap,
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 4: you know, it's like kind of a you know, like
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 4: kind of jazzy, but really loud.
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 3: And then I also I think about.
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 4: Chief Trick was that, especially in the eighties, their sound system.
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 4: I mean it wasn't like grateful that wall sound, but
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 4: they were really loud. Like a lot of the reviews
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 4: you read about them, including with Comita, was like they're
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 4: so fucking loud, Like it's distorted people, you know, and
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 4: in the bars, I think that was also a thing
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 4: with them. They just you know Rick, I mean he's
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 4: still he could see them on the Buddhican videos. His
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 4: mark amps like like blown out, like there's like the
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 4: holes in them, you know, I mean, they were, you know.
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 4: And that's something that Steve Albin mentioned when he was
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 4: talking with Mike Vanderbilt on their podcast before he passed.
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 4: Kiss of course looks like the more dangerous of the
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 4: two bands, and yet the music they play, not the
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 4: presentation is a little bit more poppy and bubblegummy, whereas
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 4: Cheap Trick, especially that stuff from seventy seven, it's much
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 4: more kind of like menacing and scary. But you have
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 4: Rick Nielsen, you know, running up and down on his
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 4: you know, personal stairs, you know, and a dream boone
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 4: in Rob and Exander singing it, so you might not
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 4: necessarily see.
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: Them as that book on podcast will be back after this.
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 3: Can we go now?
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 4: Please?
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: People?
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 2: A good plan today is better than the perfect plan tomorrow.
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: People should go out and get the book. It's available
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: online wherever books are sold in the usual place, Amazon
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: American Standard. Cheap Trick from the Bars to the Buddhican
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: and Beyond Sound.
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 3: Now there's good pictures of that too.
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: And where can people find you on line if they
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: want to reach out to you?
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 3: Sure I am.
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 4: I'm still on Twitter at Luca B twelve, which is
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 4: Luca Brazzi from the Godfather, the twelve being San Humphreys,
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 4: the quarterback of the nineteen eighty four Chargers, So LUCAB
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 4: twelve on Twitter. I'm on Facebook. There is Drunk on Sunday,
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 4: my first book, Drunk on Sunday. The book is my
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 4: Instagram handle, which I had met. My wife runs the
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 4: Instagram and I just I just write stuff, so if
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 4: people send me stuff on Instagram, she'll just tell me.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 3: I'm now also on Blue Sky at Luca B twelve.
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 4: I clearly just felt I had to squat this, like
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 4: somebody else is gonna say lucab twelve, which was which
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 4: was my AOL address, you know, from nineteen ninety five. Anyways,
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 4: but yeah, people can pretty much find me find me anywhere.
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 4: It's really been, like I said, a pleasure doing this.
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 4: It's a little outside of my wheelhouse in terms of
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 4: people always ask people if you wrote about book, why
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 4: when you write a book about dead? I'm like, because
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 4: people have already done that, whether it be Dave Again,
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 4: the Butler, Jackson, or Robert Greenfield, I have no interest
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 4: in doing that. I'm obviously, you know, a huge debt
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 4: and a chief trick. I consider myself a big Cheap
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 4: Trick fan, but not amongst Cheap Trick fans like I
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 4: don't have for one second, whether it be Pat or
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 4: Bran or Robert Lawson. I mean, I've seen Cheap Trick
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 4: a lot. I love Cheap Trick, but hopefully the little
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 4: part of me that I can't say that I'm objective.
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 4: I mean hopefully that's what allows me to research and
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 4: to write. But I mean I do think they're great,
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 4: and they really are. I mean they're like comfort food.
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 4: I mean they're like a grilled.
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 3: Cheese and bacon.
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 4: I mean when I hear the live Cheap Trick, I
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 4: mean Pat was playing those songs in this podcast, I
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 4: was like, like, a great.
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: Fucking band, you know about Ross Warner.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much, man, my pleasure. That's it. It's in
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: the books.