Latest / Becoming Flame: Where Sensuality, Sovereignty, and Sacred Power Ignite / The Prostitute Archetype and the Fear of Being Valued with Masha Maria
Transcript
- Kait Tregenza: Hello, Masha. Welcome to the podcast. So we have such an interesting meet cute that ⁓ met in like almost like a, ⁓ it's a telegram chat. We didn't know each other. ⁓ just sparked interest each other, I suppose. ⁓ And started becoming ⁓ interested in other and Masha Maria: Hi. Kait Tregenza: There are women who will sit with you in your stories then there are women who will look ⁓ through them and today's guest is one of those women. I Masha Maria in the most unexpected way inside this random online space where we didn't know each other at all and within I was like she's the woman for she ⁓ we will be friends. Part of the reason why I said to you, oh my God, I need you to come on the podcast, more people need to hear your wisdom is there are so few women in the world that can just cut through somebody's blah, blah, blah, and just be like, listen, this is just, sorry, but you're just in a shadow spiral and you just need to look at it. And I think women, I am connecting with her, I am DMing her. you in the very start of our friendship, like ⁓ moments she said, most amazing that people wouldn't ever dare to say, not to hurt me, but to actually meet me in truth. And it stopped me because we've been taught love looks like softening, placating. Masha Maria: You Kait Tregenza: have been taught or conditioned to believe that friendship is when you just placate somebody in their shit and you just let them spiral in that. And that's not friendship, right? That's letting somebody stay in pain and agony, in challenge, in looping. And we just like stand by and watch that happen because we don't want to hurt somebody's feelings. But like with you, just beating around the bush and never telling the truth because it might hurt somebody. But friendship looks like letting each other stay in our patterns is not a friendship that I ever want anymore. So what if real connection is actually being clearly seen when it's uncomfortable and realizing it's not uncomfortable at all. It's enlivening and it's uplifting and it's exciting. It's like, ⁓ yes. you were, you hardly knew me and you just like went straight in and you were like with kindness and love and you know, fullness of heart, but you said the thing that needed to be said. I was like, I need to know the kind, ⁓ need more women around me that are going to say the things that need to be said. And I just needed to have you on the podcast and know more about how you became this woman and Yes, let's go into truth. Let us be the truth and the congruence of us. And Masha carries that kind of presence. Her work ⁓ rooted in shadow work, inner child healing and deep embodiment, but so in the way that so many Instagram women are there talking about. This isn't about thinking ⁓ your way your healing. It's about actually Masha Maria: Yeah. Kait Tregenza: allow other women to learn from you. Masha Maria: Wow. This is super encouraging to hear, to be honest, because I think that part of me, I love her so much and also always learning how to navigate and to not come off as too straightforward or too honest or too straight the point. I think a big part of it ⁓ is Kait Tregenza: Ha ha. Feeling it, moving it, meeting the parts of yourself that you've been taught to reject, suppress, repress, realizing they hold your power. In this conversation, we go into the places most people avoid. ⁓ desire, the fear of being seen, the fear of being ⁓ the fear of being paid for the work that you do, ⁓ the deeper truth behind why so many people actually Masha Maria: Connected to me being from Russia a lot of Russian people are just like that We're very straightforward and we will tell you the truth We're not we're not playing around And you know also Life is too short is what I am Feeling it's why I don't really want to play games. I don't want to It's interesting to me Kait Tregenza: struggle to receive. We talk about archetypes, we talk about the prostitute, we talk about it's so hard to receive, we talk about why we've been taught to suppress and what happens when you actually start to embody these archetypes ⁓ the codes that they carry in ⁓ the codes that other women who can fully receive carry. This is ⁓ raw, honest and at times it might feel confronting for you. I really encourage you to feel the energy of what we're saying, feel the transformation that Masha herself goes through as she energetically moves in and out of this archetypal shadow work ⁓ as talking. She physically changes. ⁓ She red, she goes flush, she goes hot, she starts sweating. ⁓ She doing the work as we're in the background of her. Masha Maria: So yeah, why not? Kait Tregenza: So your work now is about inner child, shadow work, all of this internal reflection, like being able to really look in the mirror. And I find that really interesting in your life because you're somebody who looks in the mirror at like two different levels. You're a model, obviously you're beautiful. And you're this inner shadow. This is like, there's a lot of If you are willing to sit with it, there's something in here that could change the way you yourself completely. And if allow what her process is happening for her to happen for you, as you listen, ⁓ you embody the wisdom that she is embodying on this call. This is Masha Maria. You will love her. She is amazing. Let's welcome her to the podcast. looking at Masha at different levels and I find the poetry in that really beautiful and I'd love to know how you came into being a shadow worker? Masha Maria: Mmm. Well, I never wanted to be a healer. That was never goal mine. What I really wanted was to find myself, was to get rid of my suffering, my internal conflict, the agony that I felt most of life. I wanted to feel better. ⁓ honestly, when comes to the truth, it's not anything crazy spiritual. At the end of the day, just wanting to love yourself, feel good, feel like life is working out and you're not just dragging a bunch of inside of you, ⁓ everywhere you go. And ⁓ learned that also by doing a lot of external explorations like traveling the world and yeah, modeling, exploring different relationships. if I try this new thing or I do this, it's all about achievement or it's all about becoming something. Maybe if I move to America or I move to Europe I go travel here, my life will change and I will find something or somebody. I think because I've done so much of that, I realized that wherever you go, ⁓ there you you are with your, you know, stuff. ⁓ and it's a, it's painful, but that is what brought me to the inner work. And that's why maybe I'm also that straight forward. I'm like, yo, whatever you want to achieve, if it's not working out. I get it. And honestly, if you want to save yourself time, money, energy, just do these things. like. I'm just to ⁓ you know. If you want to do it, just go. If you don't, totally respect that. Kait Tregenza: So tell me more about how you found shadow work. Like what was the pathway that led you to even know about this? Masha Maria: Mmm. It's hard to say specifically about shadow work because, to help myself, I just started. Well, I'll start here. I decided that the most important thing and the only thing that matters, most important thing I can do for myself is to follow my intuition. I wanted to find out what my intuition was, what it felt like in my body, because everything else was lost to me. yeah, I just started following and really a place to place from a Kait Tregenza: Mm-hmm. Masha Maria: you know, a person to a retreat to a Vipassana in India to a meditation something and this workshop and this person, it's just like a magical journey ⁓ discovering different healing modalities. Honestly, oftentimes feeling incredibly disappointed, ⁓ having lot of expectations like this is gonna be the thing that will heal me. And so it's like, Kait Tregenza: . Masha Maria: super super intense ayahuasca journeys and then mushroom journeys and this psychedelic and that thing. It's interesting because you know I'm talking about it like it never helped me of course I've been learning so so so much every time but really yeah shadow work is the honesty is the journey of looking at yourself just sitting down in it. in space with yourself and being like, what am I running away from? what am I running away from? And this, is painful to sit with it, but that is the most probably, because you are, know, if you are, if you are doing, doing, doing, maybe it's my boyfriend who will save me from being broke. Like, you know, it's like, what are you really running away from? ⁓ if I get married, then I'll just be happy. The so both shadow work and I would say inner child work even more. So are those modalities that allow us to go into the core of what we're running away from or at the same time we're running away from it, but it's also driving us. So if I didn't have that, that suffering, if I didn't have that pain, that feeling that I'm trapped and suffocated and nothing is satisfying my Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Masha Maria: whatever it wasn't satisfying, like nothing external. So all that was driving me to discover more about the world and about myself and all those human qualities and whatnot. Kait Tregenza: Yeah, I think one of the things that is really talked about when face the parts of you that have been running or driving to an outcome or seeking an external outcome of any kind, wherein patriarchy capitalism that celebrated, right? Your trauma informed ⁓ actions and activity to lead you to an of production or end result that is tangible that other people can see, feel and understand. When that reason is no longer present in your body, for example, don't need to prove myself anymore to, ⁓ don't know, my father, my mother, ⁓ three grade three teacher, whatever it may be. And that Masha Maria: Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: re that that neutralization of that driving factor is gone ⁓ you simply come into a place of like I am enough and I am okay and I am as I am. One the things I don't think is spoken about very often ⁓ is is really strange loss of motivation that's to you because of the way that our society is structured ⁓ the way that the traumas help you to ⁓ in capitalism. That in the absence of that, where you're like, there's no point to that activity. There's no, there's no division of joy. There's no ⁓ that brings anything anymore because I'm fulfilled in myself from the seeing of that shadow, the integrating of that shadow or that inner child that's yearning for something. I have personally experienced then this like, almost like this sense of like confusion and my way in going, so the, what's the Like, what am I doing now? Like, ⁓ am I to be doing any of the things that I'm, any of the goals or any of the projects or any of the things that I used to do, do they matter? Do I continue? Because I have no drive for that anymore. Masha Maria: Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: what you just said is just such an untouched on part of this that I don't think people talk about very often. you more, can you give us more information what to do in that next step? Masha Maria: Are you talking, are you asking specifically about that time when you're kind of in the limbo, you're not here, not there? Is that what you're asking about? Kait Tregenza: I guess we can start there. And then the other part is like when you come out of you know, a driving factor that's been such a primary foundation part ⁓ of you thought was your personality, but is actually just a trauma, or unresolved aspect of you pushing you out into the world to achieve something ⁓ in the of that inner child, you imbalance, let's call it, to neutralize it. You don't want to do those things anymore. And then now you're like, thought I was trying to come here to be healed, but now I don't know how to function in the world. Masha Maria: Hmm that can definitely happen I want to bring up a point that in the process of inner child healing we do something that's called reparenting which means that For we can invite our higher self we invite God Not everybody does it that way but I Weave in the spiritual aspect a lot. So we reparent aspect, the inner child, the pretty much all the aspects of ourselves, we bring them in together and are safety. We're creating that mental, physical, spiritual safety that it's okay, for example, it's okay to not know. It's okay to change. You are love. You are loved in all of your forms. It is very important to not just dive into some crazy stuff that happened when you were a child, uncover it and okay, good. We're done. is, yeah, that is not how it works. That could be dangerous. ⁓ not the point at all. The point is to bring that part ⁓ Kait Tregenza: Okay, bye. Masha Maria: beautiful pure child that was once heartbroken and lost Bring them the now in safety and an understanding that I fucking got you now. You are not alone All is well ⁓ And you know speaking to that part of Losing your old identity Kait Tregenza: I mean. Yeah. Masha Maria: It reminds me also of how many people describe awakening, right? You are awakened and your whole perception of reality is so different and everything is falling apart. It's a sacred process. It's a sacred time and you just got to let it. This is what surrender is about. This is what that shadow work is about too because It has feeling of turbulence and who am I? It is a very important part of finding yourself. Sometimes what leads to... finding your truth is being completely disintegrated, praying to God on your knees saying there is literally nothing I know how to do, I don't know anything about anything, please God me a sign. When completely surrender, I find ⁓ that's the deal, that's when you actually are open to receive. ⁓ yourself to receive light back into your life. And not just the light, honestly, also the all the darkness and all the components ⁓ where exist, ⁓ all realms, which allows for a lot of compassion for yourself. When you don't just see or seek the light, you're just becoming real with where you've been, what this world is. it's not perfect and that creates a lot of, you know, compassion for those things we were talking about earlier, like patriarchy, like people just being hurt and doing their best to hold on to their reality. Like, I understand, you know, if you've been there, like you understand that sometimes you just want to hold on to your zone or to your beliefs. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Masha Maria: because you feel that if you let go, you will die. You will lose your tribe, you will lose yourself. And you know, I also, I can honor that for sure. Kait Tregenza: You will die. Masha Maria: Yeah, yeah, in a way, of course. But you don't know that you can also be reversed. And it's going to be really great. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: Yeah. And that's the thing, right? Once you've done this once or twice, that feeling of like, my God, I just want to die. It's like the marker of, yeah, here we go. ⁓ please. ⁓ please let me, like, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Masha Maria: Yeah, it's like it hurts so bad and it hurts so good. Kait Tregenza: Talk to me about what's the difference between light and dark energy. You just spoke about letting in the light, but also letting in the dark for people who have no idea what that just Can break that down? Masha Maria: Wow, that is a really deep and complex question. Wow. Well, maybe we can start from. There is, I think every person has a personal relationship to light and dark. We have so stories told about light and dark. And what I was referring to earlier, maybe light ⁓ is angels ⁓ and The light from the source, divine support, everything is good, everything just flows. I am safe, I'm doing great. And then the dark would be, well, there's war in the world and there's child trafficking and there is like sometimes I have nothing to eat. Something that I really love though, like something that helps me. is understanding that dark is not bad. The dark, whatever it is, a teacher, is helper coming back to the shadow work to see your shadow, so you evolve, so you can learn, so you can see more. The human journey, in my opinion, is just the process of constant evolution. Kait Tregenza: Mm. Masha Maria: We came here to experience all of it, to surrender to all of it upgrade. That's how I feel it. That's how I feel it. feel it like, and it's not linear. It's like, it's a beautiful dance and a beautiful process. If we just lock in the vision that light is good and dark is bad, we will miss out on a lot of growth. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Yeah. Masha Maria: in my opinion. If we learn to open our heart, especially through doing some nice shadow work, we will just that all the dark that we see outside ourselves is pretty much right here. You can find your own prostitute, politic, murderer. you can find all those archetypes that are out there. You see them on TV or on ⁓ Instagram. just look a little closer, all of them live inside of you. And if you make peace with that, it's a different game. It becomes a different game playing on Earth. Kait Tregenza: And also what I love about you pulling that up, the prostitute, even the murderer, I found is in with these archetypal energies and ⁓ understanding the dark holds our ultimate and that it's almost why it's been, there's propaganda that it's bad because if you don't have women especially, but people excited to meet their darkness, you can control them because they'll have a limitation to their power. And so of my ⁓ archetypes that I've ever worked with, and honestly, I don't even think she's currently empowered enough because like feeling like the yearning, like when you named her, I was like, ⁓ I feel her wanting to play a bigger role in my life. That prostitute has an opportunity to help you know where your value is being demanded to be paid for. you in the presence of me, you want ⁓ to me in a way ⁓ that determine you can access or not, then you need to pay me. And however you pay me, Masha Maria: Mmm. Kait Tregenza: whether that's in energy, in time, ⁓ respect, in gratitude, in just like absolutely flooding with love and respect, money, whatever it may be, ⁓ but exchange needs to And if you think about the good girl or the lover archetype as like the opposition archetype to prostitute, That's just like, ⁓ love and light, I give freely and nothing needs to come back to me. And what does that do to women all around the world? If that's what they believe their role is, they deplete themselves their own voluntary ⁓ So have ⁓ this planet convinced that women should just give and give and give and give. So all the voluntary labor in the house is for women. Masha Maria: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: All of the unpaid labor is for women, all the emotional labor, women, et cetera, et cetera. And you go down the line. Whereas the prostitute says, no, I need to be paid. I paid for who I am. And a lot of value in all of these so-called dark archetypes that if go into them and we start to really see ⁓ Masha Maria: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: Where am I not showing up as a prostitute? Like, am I doing all of this work for this consulting company and I'm, you know, doing 16 hours, but I'm getting paid for four? Like activate your prostitute. You know what I mean? Masha Maria: Hahaha Mm-hmm. Yep, absolutely. Kait Tregenza: What's your favorite archetype? Masha Maria: I am not sure if I have a favorite but what you're speaking to I love that you speaking to it because that is That the prostitute ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ don't even know if I in my experience. I don't call her a prostitute, but I feel her I'll speak to it a little more. ⁓ this is what I want to say is this is exactly where my personal work is at right now This is exactly what I found my journey to more abundance, to more self-expression, more receiving, exact have, and this is vulnerable and new to say publicly, but I have found out that for me, receivership is connected to the archetype of the prostitute and ⁓ money means I am a prostitute and it means that it is shameful. It was really crazy to really with it and acknowledge that for some reason, and I honestly feel that it is from my Russian. I say that, mean, ancestry and history and also the collective patriarchal, you know, like there, there is that dynamic. If you are a woman, a powerful woman who knows what she wants and she wants to receive from it doesn't mean that she is, she is the sex worker at all. She is just receiving attention, money. She is beautiful. Somehow it is connected like I could feel it in my in my thought that means that she's a prostitute and she needs to be ashamed of herself. I was like whoa So been unpacking that for myself even just the awareness of it is beautiful and helpful But yeah, I'm currently in the process of doing shadow work with myself on Kait Tregenza: Mm. Masha Maria: that shame that is still present understanding that is not mine but also owning the fact that I have been living that shame and I didn't know that it was preventing me from receiving more. Kait Tregenza: Hmm I love, yeah, I love that. And I'm like feeling how that lands in me and why probably the potency of this conversation already like made me feel her immediately as we started talking about it. was like, she needs more space. She needs more voice. She needs, and like when you were talking, what was, what I was seeing, what was coming up for me was like, if you're a prostitute, Masha Maria: Yuck. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: you can't even be in the company of so-called respectable women, all the kinds of women who ⁓ big things in the world, right? And so you shame yourself even out of connection with sisterhood and with other ⁓ And image me was like this very lone kind of solitary shameful existence where I needed to be so apologetic for my presence on the planet and just trying to get by. And that for me was like, oh, just want to home. When I see that in aspects of my life where I have struggled to believe that, not that I, sorry, I should say it differently. I have... struggled to materialize my belief that women should be village, in tribes, in community, in connection, in circles, right? Because time, not every time, but a lot of times, I have to put these groups together and at some point it crumbles apart or it falls away. ⁓ And my was never like, ⁓ yeah, can't be, ⁓ women can't together. My belief has always been women are designed, biologically designed to be together. I what you're talking to is ⁓ part that sister wound as well, right? So if we all have an aspect of our prostitute or whatever name we want to call it, that ⁓ aspect it's like, we're alone, we're shamed, if we receive anything, it's shameful. How are we going to receive each other, let alone money, right? Because money is only one kind of resource. Masha Maria: Mm. Kait Tregenza: The connection that we have to Sisterwood is a far more powerful resource than any money could ever be. Masha Maria: That is powerful, yeah. Kait Tregenza: It's interesting, right? Like, what you're talking to is deep in the collective. Masha Maria: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And you know, maybe... little earlier on in my on my journey I was just thinking ⁓ I just need to work more I just need to market myself on Instagram a little more you know again that extra trying to externally create something feeling feeling ashamed okay trying again feeling ashamed feeling worse about myself and then going deep again that's why I'm promoting shadow work. thing you know, you actually sit with yourself and you find that it is deeply connected to the feminine aspect that I am not accepting within myself and with women. the curious thing that I've noticed ⁓ is as became aware ⁓ of shame I have about receiving. Kait Tregenza: Hmm. Masha Maria: I noticed that Before I was aware, I was... internally shaming women who are in the sex industry without acknowledging it. I'm like, no, I'm cool. Everybody do whatever they want. I actually support it. But deep inside, was like, out. Just being honest. Once I recognized that it's my own stuff and I feel ashamed for myself for receiving anything in this world, actually, this is like my core. shadow. I started looking at some women on Instagram that do sex work. I look at them and I admire them. ⁓ am feeling like I want what you have. I want to be that confident. I started seeing it as true confidence and owning the thing you embody what you want what you want to receive for it. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Masha Maria: It is so powerful. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Totally. Masha Maria: I want the codes. I want, I need the codes. I love that we're talking about this. This is, this is good. Kait Tregenza: I wonder so often, truly, truly wonder so often, can codes be transmitted by Instagram? I do. wonder because women are so much more powerful. Their technology is so much more powerful than social media. But I do wonder if there's a distortion that comes through the program itself. I've always wondered that. But I think what Instagram can do, even if you can't get the full codes from that woman, because there's a distortion there, think that you can see something in your eyes that starts making things possible. Masha Maria: Mmm. course. Kait Tregenza: And of the things that I think is really, really, really powerful is until you understand what life could ⁓ look for you, because you have no example of that, because you have no reference, you of yourself where you are and you project something that's slightly better. Like, ⁓ I myself, but I go to the gym ⁓ three times a And you're like, okay, that's not really like, that's not the thing that changes your life. Right. But you don't know. And the way that we've been taught to like set goals, it's like setting goals. Actually, if you translate that into what it means is like, you're not currently enough. So do more to be something else. And I think what Instagram does give you an opportunity to do is like, if I were to reorganize my entire energy. and the way that I woke up, the way that I moved in the world, the way that I then I could have thing. I could be her that I feel is yearning and deeply desiring. And I think you can to use Instagram as an intuitive tool. When you like land on someone's profile and you're like, her. And not, she has what I want. It's more the reframe is, she's me that which in me that needs more space, that's yearning for more time that wants to take up the role, the empowered role in the way that I exist in the world. ⁓ And so not, I wish I could be like her and she's just so amazing. It's I see in her what I have in me. How do I carve out time now to allow that? what, where's the shadow? Where's the energy, the repression, the suppression of that part within me? And how do I sit and give time to that to come fully into empowerment? Masha Maria: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: That's what I think Instagram can be. I'm still learning it. Masha Maria: That's a very beautiful conscious way to approach Instagram for sure. I wish every person in the world approached it that way. That is very advanced. And I agree. I absolutely agree with you. can just mindlessly scroll because that's what you want to do. you can do some shadow work on Instagram with yourself. Kait Tregenza: So. ⁓ Masha Maria: absolutely hate this person I'm seeing right now. This feels so icky. Let me not write a yucky under their posts. Let me sit with my feelings and recognize why I feel so much hatred for them in ⁓ this moment. would be great if everybody approached it that way. Kait Tregenza: Wouldn't that be amazing if the only thing you went to school for was to learn shadow work? It's like, you don't need trigonometry, need shadow work. Masha Maria: So good. You know, I love this planet very much. really do love humans very much. And so that is part of my contribution here. This is part of how I feel I can do something about stuff about where we're at and where we're going. And also I love doing it. ⁓ I do feel that it is very helpful. So is is part of my contribution among some other things. Kait Tregenza: I want to go back to the process of receiving and and really understanding that because I think it's so fascinating. ⁓ What's your relationship like with your mother? Masha Maria: Let's go. Hmm. Right now it is better than ⁓ ever been. used be... I mean my relationship with my mother is what... needed the most healing and what I invested the most time and energy into in terms of healing for sure, because it was very hot and cold. was very, I love you, adore you, you're the best at that pulling away and you're, you know, you're a piece of shit and you need to be perfect. So I still, I still do feel it in me. I just know how to work with that. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. The reason I ask is because I feel like as women, our to freely receive is so linked to our relationship with our mother. we're, if we have guards up about what we're receiving from our primary creator, ⁓ the woman who carried us, the woman who birthed us, the woman who's supposed to Masha Maria: You Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: display unconditional giving, unconditional receiving, unconditional love and all of that. If there's a fracture in that receivership and you starts to say, I don't know if I want to receive everything that you're giving. then that continues to compounds, I think, and what I've witnessed of what I've experienced myself, but definitely what I've experienced. over my life because I think life gives you the answers when it can reflect to you in the people that you see. And that's another way that shadow work can take you deeper is like, couldn't see it in me, but I can see it there so clearly. It must exist in me. Whatever I can see so clearly in others is because I have it in me. And when I've been receiving the ⁓ information these women that I've met over course of my lifetime, it's helped me to understand Masha Maria: Mm. Kait Tregenza: shame around receiving is also tied into a ⁓ of receiving something that's just so And so there's like this wall that goes off of like, I don't know what you're to give me today. It's safer to get nothing. Masha Maria: Mmm. Oh, I'm getting goosebumps. That's really good. That's really great awareness. And I can relate. I can relate. For me, it's like, I'd rather stay frozen and safe in the corner because I don't know if you'll come at me with love or with punishment. so love is conditional, right? And so I'd rather be cold, close my heart down and... Yeah, and feel pretty horrible about myself. So are not logical in our subconscious and we sometimes choose that space. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: No. Because it's interesting, right? It's like the conditions that you're putting on the love that you have to give me are are not something that I accept any longer. And so I would prefer to have, I would prefer to live on crumbs. ⁓ then what I found is that the celebration of these low maintenance women, right? So going back to this like prostitute who's like, I live large. Masha Maria: Mmm. Kait Tregenza: everyone should pay me. I'm taking it all in. You see me, you pay me. You see me, you pay me." And whatever the pay me means, right? Like it doesn't have to be money all the time, but like you get something for your presence. You understand your inherent worth and there's an exchange for every aspect of you that is met, seen, felt, whatever. And the other side is this low maintenance woman. It's like, no, no, I literally just eat these crumbs. Masha Maria: Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: And that's it. I will sleep on rags in the corner. don't to provide for me. I'm a low maintenance woman. I never get my nails done. I never get my hair done. ⁓ I buy new clothes. I don't even take a shower. You won't even notice I'm here except for the stink that I am. it's like got so conditioned need ⁓ so ⁓ little. Masha Maria: Mm. Kait Tregenza: And that's why we hate these women that are living large. you know, ⁓ boyfriend paid me a thousand dollars for lunch because I was, you know, I was such great company. how could you do that? That's disgusting. You know, here I am over here. I live on $1,000 every three months. You know, that's, and you just like, it enrages the part of you that is suffocating, starving, know, so, so, so unhygienic at the core of you. That's the trigger of the women that are demanding and getting paid for being themselves. Masha Maria: Yeah. And what you're speaking to also are almost the two sides of, you know, like plus and minus two polarities. And truly what we are speaking to, I think, is the energy exchange that is appropriate, is, there is reciprocity, that it's like actually. equal and fair which We're talking about a prostitute and a good girl, but we can also talk about you and I for instance having a conversation We both want to feel that it is worth it to us. We want to feel nourished in this right? It's not about it If you feel into it energetically, you will know what it is that you need and sometimes it's just to have a conversation sometimes it's like Can you help me with this? And then we do that. Okay, so it's like a constant conversation. If you have that awareness of it is safe and it is okay to make it fair and feel good for both people, then I think we can get there. Yeah, I feel that it is about incorporating and embracing the prostitute archetype as just this big, brave, deserve what I want into our everyday existence a for equilibrium, for balance, because we've got a lot of I'm gonna do things for you, for the world and I'm gonna save the world and I love you all. we, feel as women, it would be really healthy for us to embrace more of, hey, yeah, this is all great, but ⁓ require reciprocity. To stay alive, to stay healthy, to stay sane and to keep flourishing and actually giving my love and my energy to the world because... If there is no reciprocity, what am I supposed to give? It's not about having it all for myself, right? Again, prostitute, archetype, maybe she wants to have it all for herself. No. When we talk about integrating her, we're talking about integrating reciprocity and valuing yourself, not just giving it away for free. Yeah, being valued, being brave. Kait Tregenza: Right. Being value. Yeah. Masha Maria: to ask for what you want because why are we even scared to ask for what we want at first place, you know? Kait Tregenza: Because we've been trained to. Masha Maria: I know, it's fucking crazy! You can- Kait Tregenza: Yeah. And that's these dark archetypes, hold the power because if you're living in a system that literally wants you powerless, that wants you unable to exist in a network of powerful and empowered reciprocating, network of That's very, very, very dangerous because those people cannot be controlled. Those people cannot be or extracted from. And so if you're living in a system of extraction, but fundamental human nature is reciprocity and circularity and moving in. And ⁓ you don't need to hoard because it's going to be moving through the collective at all times. The prostitute, whether you like this name or not, is so irrelevant, but She who is empowered and is valued and gets what she deserves and needs and requires. And that's the problem with this concept of deserving. like you have to prove worth first, ⁓ you get to have something. It's like, no, you inherently are valuable and worthy because you are here, because you are human, because you ⁓ are. And therefore your needs for energy, for love, for of your human and spiritual and soul needs are inherently to claim. And that prostitute allows you to just forcefully claim them. Just say, I will paid. I will exist in this world as a human, connected. Masha Maria: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, it is just natural for me to ask for what I want. I receive that, good. If I don't receive that, good. It's easy for me to want, desire. Kait Tregenza: So how? Masha Maria: ask for it receive it without asking. There's not even a question about any of those things. And if it's not enough, I say no, I feel good about it. I move on because I know that it's gonna come to me from a different source because I love and respect myself innately, period. And I'm not afraid to move through this world knowing that I deserve without even. Kait Tregenza: Who? Masha Maria: thinking about deserving it's just there. Kait Tregenza: So tell me, how did you do this? Like what's your personal, it's hard to be a coach to yourself. So how did you sit down with your own requirements to receive and whatever was coming up to block you from that in terms of the inner child work and the shadow work? Like how do you hold yourself in that? Masha Maria: Yeah. How do I hold myself through the process? Do you mean when I do it with myself, when I'm in my own process? Kait Tregenza: in that process. Masha Maria: Mm. I do have a framework that works for me. So it is easy because I know how to do it. It used to be more... complicated and where do I go? What do I do? What is happening? Now I just have it anchored inside. So I travel, I usually travel back to the root of the, so I follow the feeling. I follow that feeling if I was working with shame about being a prostitute and receiving. I would go deep. deeper and deeper inside to find the place where it's actually coming from. there many ways to go about it. Shadow work can be very performative, meaning embodied and theatrical. is that that one is one of my faves when you can actually turn into that nasty, frivolous whore. Kait Tregenza: Mm-hmm. Mm. Masha Maria: you just be it you just be it and you feel everything you feel I Love that you asked me how I am holding myself in that process and I just went into something I would love to experience soon and I've been already feeling into it and doing it without actually going into a full process. I know that it will happen. Feel everything from shame to disgust to everything that comes up in that energy. Just let yourself be immersed. See the surroundings. You'll probably see an event. You'll see those women and men and something happens that fucks you up for thousands of years, you know? Like it's probably... Kait Tregenza: Mm. Thanks. Masha Maria: It happened, you know, a long time ago and you're still carrying it right here. So you got to go experience it. You're that's how it's really done. Like you're really in it. You were in 2026, but actually you're somewhere in Morocco and you are a prostitute. And, know, there, there was a thing that really makes you feel really, really ashamed. you go there. Kait Tregenza: You're in it. You're in it. Wow. Masha Maria: And whatever it takes, you reverse it, you heal it, you expand it, you understand it, you gain understanding. Because right now, for instance, I'm probably ashamed and I'm just of stuck in that experience, in that bubble of shame. Part of me, right? A part of me. Obviously not all of me. I'm a functioning woman. I'm fine. ⁓ there is an aspect of me that is still stuck in Morocco back there. So ⁓ popped the bottle, ⁓ bubble. I look at what happened there, understand, I comprehend. Maybe that it wasn't my fault. Maybe it was my fault. I relive it and I am able to let it go and understand that that was a formative experience that is informing my receivership in 2026. shit. Wow. Crazy. Okay. Just because I was a prostitute in Morocco, 3000 years ago and I deeply ⁓ shamed by this. kings and all those people and the women and they killed me for being a prostitute just because that happened doesn't mean that I cannot work and function and receive compliments from men in 2026. There you go. That is an advanced session in inner core, the cause healing. I'm losing a little bit, losing my words, because I'm still in Morocco. ⁓ ⁓ is how we would do it with inner child work, for instance. You just don't go 3,000 years ago, because that can be advanced for somebody never Kait Tregenza: Yeah, you're still in Morocco. Come back! Masha Maria: done never done inner child work, we go into where you were three and do the same process. Kait Tregenza: What I love about what you're talking about is the embodiment aspect of it is the acting out aspect of it because ⁓ when I started my journey on, I don't know, people call it a spiritual awakening. People call it an ascension. People call it Sunday afternoon, like whatever, you know, it doesn't matter. But I literally a past life regressions and I wrote them all down. Masha Maria: Mm-hmm. Mmm. Wow. Kait Tregenza: My process was very different. It was more a hypnosis or a theta state kind of thing where I'd lie on the bed and I would just like transport myself like a dream, much like a lucid dream where you're active in the dream. ⁓ by the way, this was around the same time that I was actively ⁓ about dream architecture and ⁓ changing your life through your dreams. And so, It started to make a lot of sense to me that the architecture of the simulation that we're in is, is really fascinating, right? It really is a simulation and you can go, you know, in, started to really understand a lot more about time. So even when you're saying like we're in 2026, let's just call that, that's a level. So it's like a marker. It's like a geo location, right? but all of it is happening at once. So it's easy to go back to Morocco 3,000 years ago because it's happening right now, because it's happening in this moment. And this conversation with you and I is happening in the same moment that we're changing our lives around this prostitution or archetypal claiming of self and all of this. But I haven't done and what I'm really... Masha Maria: Yeah. I know, Kait Tregenza: what I'm really like, my body is like on fire, like listening to you is it ⁓ because my, ⁓ ⁓ was very observational and then almost like a higher consciousness coming in and making the changes that were required ⁓ bringing peace to, ⁓ know, an outcome that had no peace or whatever it may be, but it wasn't embodied. in the same way that you're talking about. I may have felt the emotions, but from the observer perspective, do you know what I mean? that's actually why I stopped doing it after a while because I was like, There's only 90 % being done here. This stuff is still looping. And I was trying to find the reason. And that's when I found shadow work or embodiment work, you started with like family constellations where you literally sit ⁓ in chair and you embody ⁓ those of the family constellation to just find out that they're just all aspects of you in your sibling or parental. uncool or whatever. And this is the same thing as what you said. You you've, you're having a problem with the wars outside of you. Find the wars inside of you. You don't need to go protest on the street. need to, you need to that that exists within you and that adding that ⁓ aspect of you to an empowerment the totality of you is work that needs to be done on neutralizing wars, on ending wars. It doesn't happen outside of us, it happens inside of us. ⁓ And I found that those past life regressions, all those regressions in general that were like hypnotic and mental, ⁓ only take you so far. Masha Maria: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Agreed, agreed. I feel that both both have a place to be. I love combining those experiences because when you ⁓ activate body, that is when you move that energy through your physical body. This is is dense energy, right? If you do it ⁓ mentally, you just about it and there's no nothing happens in the body of course it's not complete if you do it through just like you know hypnosis receiving can be really powerful I would say after you're done you still have to do it ⁓ it out ⁓ through the body move the energy very important I feel that our bodies in any case must be in flow and in expression more. Generally every human being, especially when you do some powerful spiritual, psycho spiritual work, express important tears, laughter, shaking, to really let the body do its thing is big part of it. Otherwise, yeah, we can stay looping in the mind and in the realm of concept and not embodiment. Embodiment ⁓ has a fancy word for, you know, that a lot of people don't understand. And when I say embodiment, I do it, you know, I teach it, but I'm like, I don't want to talk about, I don't want to use the word embodiment. I just want to say, hey, feel your body. Just recognize you have a body. Hey, hi, you have a body. You know, I would like to say that instead of you need to do some embodiment work. Like, hey, baby, you want to hug yourself and feel how it feels to be in this body? How is it? Kait Tregenza: That's it. Masha Maria: I'm excited to do some shadow work, shadow work and really get into not just talking and thinking about, again, that archetype, but maybe I'll buy some lingerie, know, something like that, and go into that experience. I'm getting excited. I'm also thinking about ⁓ a new ancient golden Really, really pretty. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Masha Maria: put it in my bedroom and go for it. Oof. Kait Tregenza: Just watch yourself. Masha Maria: Well, feel all the feelings. Go. So I would start with the shame, right? And I would feel the shame and go and go and go into it. It feels like I'm already there. If I go there, it feels like expressing a lot of disgust, a lot of hatred, a lot of heavy stuff. Disgust is like number one. So it would look like a beautiful woman in front of the mirror doing... about an hour probably. psychedelics helped a lot, I have to say, in my exploration of this. they were showing me from the very start of my exploration. All the people around me, if it was a ceremony, everybody is just laying there. Or when people talk about it, they don't really, I don't see or don't hear people. go into extreme expressions of the body. And that's what the medicine has been teaching me to let go and allow the body to move energy. When I say that don't hear people do that, it's especially when I started, I didn't have the education, I didn't have the knowledge that this is something that can happen. Your body will just want to shake and tremble and... be extremely weird, take the shapes that you never knew existed and you will want to make sounds that nobody else makes around you. so, yeah, plant medicine has showed me a lot of my resistance to it and allowing me to work through and be really weird in so many ways. So over years, Kait Tregenza: Mm. Masha Maria: Now I'm not afraid, but I was really, really afraid to be weird or to do that embodiment work. How do I even, you know, and now it's not a big deal. used to be challenging to even make a face. Like somebody will ask me to make a face on a modeling gig. I like, how I do this? Kait Tregenza: Interesting. Masha Maria: Now I can do whatever. Kait Tregenza: You don't care. Masha Maria: I don't. I don't, I mean, I still do in some aspects, like what we're talking about, right? That process. It's scary, it's intimidating. I'm not perfect. I'm not fully embodied, incredible, free, liberated, but I definitely see the progress. I'm so grateful. It's been really, really challenging. It's been really hard, but. Kait Tregenza: Hmm. think the other thing is like, you've tried everything, if you've been in therapy, if you've been in, you know, light and love kind of spirituality, neo spirituality, and you just keep looping in the same thing, then you're wasting a lot of your time and energy, money ⁓ ⁓ these loops, in these cages. And just because you have a golden cage doesn't mean it make it any less of a cage. And seeing Masha Maria: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: the cages that you either set up for yourself or that others set up for you, which is also an illusion because you are agreeing to somebody else setting up that cage for you. So it's really only ever you. That's the most empowering intimidating thought in the world is that you the creator of your own reality. So you created where you live in, but you can Masha Maria: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: uncreate it and create something else but only if you see what you've created. if you own I did this because whatever whatever happened to you for example in Morocco one second ago three thousand years ago whatever is something that your body has done under the illusion to keep you safe. Your body is always on your your being is always trying to keep you safe, is always trying to make something better for you. And there's just along the way been a misunderstanding of the manifestation of better, that it might not have been better at all. You just have to literally educate that part of you. I think when we talk about time, what we're really talking about is levels of consciousness self. So when we think of something as in the very long ago past, we're actually talking about an aspect of ourselves that is operating at a lower consciousness. Therefore, seems like it's a far, it's a de-evolution from where we are now. But also the aspects of us in the future are ⁓ evolved than us. And if we understand that it's not time, but this movement levels of consciousness that we have full access to in this moment. And that's what you spoke to at the very, very start was like, don't go into shadow work without bringing in that higher consciousness, that higher self to bring in that wisdom and integrate the teachings and the learnings. And I think that's That's kind of how time collapses on itself is that you're bringing all aspects of your consciousness into this convergence point to all the manifestations and the emanations of this one specific issue. ⁓ there's also parts of you that are fully empowered in this issue that you've already come feel because you can feel it in your body already. It's already coming through. The fact that you started talking about how do I do this and the wisdom of the self of you that already knows how to do this said you need to move your body. You need to be in more expression. You need to be in more movement and flow and acting out. Whereas the part of you that prior to accessing that level of consciousness or that understanding was like, I'm gonna sit here and do the process. And I think that's what's so amazing about sitting in a conversation with anyone and saying, I'm going to access information that will change my life. Which is why I really love doing this podcast because you can start saying things that you actually don't know or haven't experienced. And it's like, ⁓ that's true. That's completely true. Masha Maria: Mm. I love everything you said but ⁓ I am blinking a little bit right now I'm just in quiet somehow nothing is happening within me but also I feel ⁓ very hot have so much blood coming into my face I feel so red actually ⁓ Kait Tregenza: ⁓ yeah, I can actually see you. That's so crazy. Masha Maria: I know, I'm like full of blood in my face. Kait Tregenza: It's moving, it's shifting, it's changing. Masha Maria: It is moving and shifting. Kait Tregenza: But you know what's interesting? This conversation was about you demanding to receive more and like this flow of blood into you. It's just like, exciting. Masha Maria: Yeah, yeah, I love it. I love it. It's my whole life. It's I made peace with it. I made peace with the transformation being constant and being a teacher of mine. I feel that it can it can absolutely change, but ⁓ transformation has been something I resisted something heavy dark feeling. or obstacles used to be something that I thought was wrong and bad now exciting. It's like, okay, God, okay, let's fucking get it. Let's get it. Now you want me to work through this prostitution, ⁓ goddess shameful thing? Okay, I'm gonna buy that mirror. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna get into it. once you it enough, Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Masha Maria: know that there's some... Incredible stuff on the other side. Kait Tregenza: You know, I think the prostitute would demand that the mirror be bought for her. Masha Maria: You're right, you're so right. See? Kait Tregenza: This is like, that's, that's the first step in this, right? Like, okay, if you want me to do this, buy me the mirror, buy me the lingerie. This is what I mean. Masha Maria: I can feel it in my body. It's so cool. Yeah. I love being vulnerable about this. I love being just, you know, on a display. Yeah, people, this is what I'm working through. And this is really, I actually don't feel shame about it. I gratitude. I feel lots of red energy and I am like, sweating. And it's really wow, it's moving and so cool. Kait Tregenza: Thank I love it. One of the things I wanted to just highlight before we end our conversation was when were talking about the embodiments, ⁓ when were talking about moving the body, what I was seeing and watching in you, but also in just the way that you were moving that energy was this dark energy, if that's what you want to name it and call it, was ⁓ directionally moving Masha Maria: Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: It was like a downward movement. And when we were sort of talking about this light love that had a directionality of up. And I think maybe the definition, if you are someone that has some kind of hang up or fear about light versus dark, and you have religious whatever ⁓ that's like really stopping you from shifting into this and coming into a, Masha Maria: Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: neutrality around trying shadow work or trying dark energy and playing around with that. the way that you could access it that would be more neutral, that would be maybe a gateway point, would be to like talk about light energy is up energy and dark energy is down energy. And down energy simply means coming into your body, into the beingness of you. And it's very important for women to work with down energy because birthing happens downwards. Birthing and transformation in women and the biotechnology of women is a downward force. You birth out your legs, not through your head. in many ways, light energy is a male style of energy because they do need to come up. They do need to bring their seed inside of them to have more energy, right? Whereas women, when you want to create something, it's that downward force into the world and you out. so it's ⁓ birth your prostitute or birth your aspect of you that's being suppressed. Because when you were moving, when you were embodying all of this, you were doing all of this kind of movement and it was coming down and out. Masha Maria: Mmm. Kait Tregenza: and you were moving your pelvis and you were rocking your body in a way that was like, this is pelvic, womb, pussy energy. It's called dark energy because women are fucking dangerous if they have it. If they're fully empowered in their darkness, they will not be controlled. And if you can strip away all the propaganda and all of the rhetoric. Masha Maria: yeah. Kait Tregenza: You will just see it's a directional movement or you can call it pussy power, whatever the word is for you that actually allows you to access it. Masha Maria: It's also very grounding. It's actually, we would be ⁓ in the dream space, not really doing anything or feeling anything if we didn't have our roots. Kait Tregenza: Yes. Masha Maria: Any words don't do it justice, right? Like it's whoever wants to call it whatever but the routine you know, is that Kait Tregenza: But you're right. Ten years ago when I did all those past life regressions, that's light energy. It didn't change anything in the body. It might have changed something in my head, in my consciousness or whatever. But the body the decider of how your life is. Masha Maria: Mm-hmm. Right, exactly. And doing something like letting your body express the energy that is there, no matter how dark and shameful and bad it feels, to just let yourself embody it instead of being ashamed of it or scared of it is a really, really healing process. I noticed that for many people, the scarcity of doing that comes from if I do it, means that I will, for instance, become a prostitute or I will be the shameful like... that I will be. You know, it's just a lot of a lot of beliefs and outcomes that might be so unpleasant. Everybody will hate me if I will do this. And it's like the web of stuff. important to remind yourself that, hey, you will not become a prostitute. It's not about that. We're playing with energy. We're working with energy. This thing in you. doesn't need to become your reality doesn't mean that you will make money through sex okay sweetheart are embodying this to release the shame and for you to bring that power back of knowing your worth if the word prostitute doesn't work for you let's just call it the archetype of embodying your worth Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Exactly. Words and spells. Yeah. Yeah. Change the words to make it feel good to you and you know, whatever that has power for you. Or if you prefer it to be completely neutral, you know, it doesn't matter. Like, you know, like follow your own body's guidance, your own intuition. Masha Maria: Words don't really mean anything if they don't work for you, for me, for whoever. Yeah, but I do enjoy very much guiding that process for people because I feel that it is so real. It's so raw and it's so not what you see in the office at a coffee shop. It's like real stuff because that woman who's going into a coffee shop is feeling all kinds of ways. It's me, you know, going to a coffee shop thinking about the shame and actually I really want to this man and ask him to or tell him to buy me a house but I can't ⁓ know all I'm doing I'm just high can I have a cappuccino and so when I meet when I meet with people in that space and I am helping them Kait Tregenza: ⁓ Masha Maria: be those archetypes and those energies and those thoughts and those things that are happening inside of them actually. And I can be there with them and help facilitate and actually embody and then live it. I'm so grateful. feel like I'm living the life of my dreams. yeah. it's so beautiful. And now I'm thinking about myself. Yeah. Thank you so much for having this conversation with me and bringing up the topic because it's monumental my growth as ⁓ a woman, human being ⁓ and as soul. It really is. I can feel it. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: Masha, you've done, grown up here so vulnerable, so brave, so your body, so capable and so empowered that your presence today has done more for anyone listening than probably any other podcast in the world. Like you brought it ⁓ and should honor yourself as I you so deeply. Like I bow at your feet. My sister, are just incredible. Inside, outside, everywhere. Masha Maria: Thank you. you so much. Kait Tregenza: I would love for you to tell people how to work with you so that you can guide them through these, whether it's an inner child or a shadow self or any other unclaimed aspect of self. How can people work with you and find you and do this work with you? Masha Maria: Yeah, the easiest way is my Instagram. It's @MashaMaria. love personal connection with people. love the DMs. I currently don't have a website and I might create that. However, my work has been, I've been connecting with people through the word of mouth. It's been working out. really beautifully and people reach out to me on Instagram. So that is pretty, pretty easy. There's no funnel. There is no marketing strategy. We're real raw if you are feeling like DMing me and doing cool stuff, but you're just welcome to DM. Kait Tregenza: If you would like to change your life today, DM Masha Maria at @Masha Maria on Instagram. She will answer you and she will help you change your life. And I think that's a really easy connection point before fancy funnels and before 1000 step top of funnel, bottom of funnel, bullshit, all of this. just spoke to each other. Masha Maria: Right? Yeah, let's just be real. Kait Tregenza: And when you are in this state of feeling what needs to be felt and coming into that feeling, you really don't need a top of funnel. You really just need to be your truth and people will find you. Masha Maria: Yes, proven. Kait Tregenza: I was going to say and case over here, if anybody wants to. And that's the thing, like, okay, so whatever it is about, whether your things are about visibility or relationships or money or power or learning how to ask something, all of those answers are found within your shadow. And so this work is not necessarily a niche down. She's only going to help you with this one thing. She's going to help you to come into the truth of you, where you are and your feelings day. Vulnerably and real. And there are very few women on the planet who would hop onto a podcast and not perform. And so I hope you felt her energy today and I hope that you felt her power, her vulnerability, her rawness, her truth, her coherence to that which she believes in. She's completely congruent it's not about ⁓ ⁓ mass world domination. It's about Masha Maria: Hmm. Kait Tregenza: all of us coming into the truth of who we are so that we can live a free and empowered life. you are living it. And I ⁓ I thank you for today. You really brought it. And I just love you so much. Masha Maria: ⁓ thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm so happy we shared this space together today. What a blessing and what magic that brought us together. ⁓ thank you. I love you too. Kait Tregenza: Absolutely.