Latest / Voices for Voices® / The Case That Won't Die: Inside the Karen Read Murder Trial | Episode 240

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The Case That Won't Die: Inside the Karen Read Murder Trial | Episode 240 · Voices for Voices®

• 0:03
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Welcome to another episode of the Voices for Voices TV show and podcast.
• 0:07
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I'm your host, founder and executive director of Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes.
• 0:13
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Thank you for joining us on this episode.
• 0:16
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Whether it is your first episode with us or if you have been with us from the beginning, thank you for joining us.
• 0:24
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: If you have been with us from the beginning, thank you for joining us.
• 0:33
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And we just have so much going on, and what we would like to talk about in this particular episode is related.
• 0:46
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So we talked about a couple episodes that we had put together, that we filmed.
• 0:50
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Where you know, we talked about what's called the Citizen Circle, where organizations come together to welcome individuals who have been incarcerated.
• 1:11
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: They've done their time and now they are re-entering society and we again, we don't we don't condone the actions that they did that got them into that trouble in the first place.
• 1:30
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: We think that we can take two routes we can just shun those individuals or we can help in however that may be, how little or how big that may be.
• 2:02
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: That that may be.
• 2:06
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Individuals may not have a birth certificate and they have to say, well, they need to get a job.
• 2:13
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Well, they need two forms of identification and, depending on how long they've been incarcerated, maybe that's been misplaced and there's an that they're able to as easily as one could be, and we know it's not easy, but we also realize that they have done crimes and had to pay for them.
• 2:59
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Yeah, so, on that level where we talk about, you know, true crime, that tends to be a particularly hot topic.
• 3:21
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: One of the most, if not the most, very close to the top topic or genre for podcasts out there is related to true crime.
• 3:37
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: You know the trials that are going on.
• 3:49
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: You know the court TVs of the world that are out there and, in particular, there is a trial that's going on in Dedham, massachusetts, and it is actually a retrial.
• 4:02
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And it is actually a retrial.
• 4:05
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And so the first trial was in 2024.
• 4:14
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And the defendant went to trial and the jury was unable to reach a verdict Guilty, not guilty.
• 4:24
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So they had a hung jury and so the state or in this case they call the state the Commonwealth decided that they wanted to retry this case and if a person is found not guilty, they can't be retried for the same same crimes.
• 4:50
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: You may have heard about that.
• 4:52
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: It's a, you know, double jeopardy.
• 4:54
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: The double jeopardy law can't be tried for the same law, same same crime, twice.
• 5:01
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: But since it was a hung jury it was neither guilty or not guilty it was decided by the Commonwealth that they wanted to retry this case.
• 5:15
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Not all cases are like that, that end up in hung juries, but this case is, and the case case if you haven't been cued in by my few minute intro, it's the karen Read murder trial, and this has garnered a lot of attention, a lot of attention both say locally in Massachusetts and data Massachusetts, here in the United States and even even across the world.
• 6:02
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: There there are podcasts, news outlets galore that have, uh, have really eaten this case up, and so we're just gonna touch on it as much as we can.
• 6:14
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And you may say well, what does this have to do with voices?
• 6:17
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: For voices?
• 6:17
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: You know you talk about mental health and trauma.
• 6:20
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Well, uh, and we talked about the citizen circle and you know the mental health and you know trauma going going through being incarcerated.
• 6:30
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: You know that that can be there for individuals and individuals ahead of that, which is where we're at here with the Karen retrial, is.
• 6:48
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So you have the trauma of John O'Keefe, who was found unresponsive in the snow outside of 34 Fairview, the Commonwealth, alleges that Karen Read's Lexus SUV ran into him and left him to die in the snow.
• 7:15
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: The defense that's defending Karen Read alleges that that did not happen, that it was not Karen Read.
• 7:28
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Karen Read's Lexus SUV did not strike John O'Keefe and therefore did not leave him injured, uh, to die in in the snow, uh, and so that's it's kind of high level what's going on, and there's supporters on both sides, which is very interesting to the degree that there is, not that there aren't supporters, but how they've kind of been at the courthouse day in and day out, not only last year in 2024 for the first trial, but here in 2025 for the retrial.
• 8:16
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: It's really unheard of because and usually that doesn't happen number one and number two, especially because the victim, john McKeith, was a Boston police officer.
• 8:34
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: She does, uh, and giving hugs and interviews and talking and, uh, you know, just really creating this huge circus, bringing in an attorney, alan jackson, from california, uh to uh to join the case and uh, and here on the retrial, there's actually been an addition to the defense team and that is one of the jurors who sat on the jury of the first Karen Read trial, which that's a twist on itself as well.
• 9:25
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: That's a twist all in itself as well, and so that's going on.
• 9:32
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: It's a long, long trial.
• 9:35
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: These trials are a couple days, maybe a week, a lot of experts being called, a lot of experts being called, and there are just so many podcasts, so many people that are making a living really off of this trial and other trials, of doing what we're doing, talking about it and then being asked to come on national TV shows and share their expertise.
• 10:09
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Some have no connection other than they decided to start a podcast and that this is the trial, or that they are a podcaster and they talk about all trials or not all trials.
• 10:29
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: But you get the idea that this wouldn't be the only trial that would be talked about on those podcasts.
• 10:37
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So we take that step back now and we talk about the trauma and the mental health, fundamental health.
• 10:54
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So this death of the Boston police officer happened outside the home of another Boston police officer.
• 11:01
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: The lead investigator, michael Proctor, has been fired, let go, and he was one of the main witnesses in the first trial last year in 2024.
• 11:16
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Him, uh, there, uh, there were some nasty text messages that were were read aloud in court for the first trial, uh, and it did not put this lead investigator in a good light at all.
• 11:39
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So, both sides the prosecution, or the commonwealth and the defense you know they're kind of daring each other to to call them uh, and you know we don't know what will happen if he'll be called or not.
• 11:56
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Um, but this lead prosecutor, literally press here, this uh lead investigator, uh, for him not to be called or her not to be called is just very interesting, because you and I would think that the main person who is the lead on the investigation of this particular alleged crime, this death, that they would definitely be called because they would have, in essence, some of the most information on the particular case.
• 12:41
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: That's interesting in and of itself as well, as he's no longer employed by the police department, and that's where some of the legal gymnastics have been going on, where the Commonwealth is daring the defense to call him to the stand and vice versa.
• 13:27
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So, regardless, the snow is very traumatic to lose anybody close, but especially in that way.
• 13:40
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So there's the mental health of his family going through that trauma, not to mention now not only one trial, but now into the second trial about what has allegedly taken place or not taken place that the jury will ultimately make that decision, and so they have to revisit that at certain times.
• 14:21
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: They have a family, and then you have the family of the defendant, karen Read, that's obviously supporting her that she didn't strike.
• 14:48
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And on John O'Keefe's cell phone, you know the time and how many seconds.
• 14:52
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: You know like.
• 14:54
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: You know 12, 34 and 15 seconds.
• 14:59
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: You know to have whatever time that is.
• 15:04
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: You know the hour, the minutes and then the seconds, and so there's all kinds of experts have been called and will continue to be called until the completion, and then the final arguments, closing arguments that will occur.
• 15:22
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So there's the mental health of the defendant and her belief that she didn't do what she's being accused of, and then the mental health, uh, and the trauma that she has to relive day after day after day.
• 15:39
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: You know the first trial, then the second trial, uh, the media appearances, uh, there's just so much that any individual would be going through Just a lot of trauma just thinking about what happened and just the mere fact that her boyfriend is no longer living, that he died one way or another, that he's in heaven now.
• 16:18
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So she has to live with that and go through that at times, that at times, and then her family and then her supporters, which again have as many supporters as she does.
• 16:33
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: To be a defendant on trial for allegedly striking a Boston police officer is really just incredible to think about.
• 16:47
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: But it's happening.
• 16:49
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: It's what's going on and again, this is the second trial, so it's the retrial.
• 16:55
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So all the supporters were there kind of at the beginning last year in 2024.
• 17:05
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: The first trial trial quite a bit are there still, and the judge, judge Canones, had had rulings and rules set in place that there's a certain amount of feet from the courthouse that the supporters have to be at.
• 17:32
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I don't know if it's 100 feet from the courthouse steps or 200 feet, whatever that amount is, but she felt that there could be some bias, that when jurors go to deliberate that they could hear supporters from the defendant Karen Read, you know doing their supporting.
• 17:55
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: You know with microphones and chanting and with signs.
• 18:01
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: You know with microphones and chanting and with signs, and so, in her mind, having a greater buffer zone is more helpful.
• 18:16
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So there's that that's different from the first trial as well.
• 18:20
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So there's that that's different from the first trial as well.
• 18:25
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And so, yeah, we talked about the mental health of the individual's past.
• 18:28
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: We have some police officer John Keefe.
• 18:30
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: We have.
• 18:31
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: The mental health of the defendant and her family we have.
• 18:56
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: What we haven't touched on is the mental health and the trauma that's basically being relived almost every day or when it comes up in their mind.
• 19:00
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Are the individuals that have been impacted as well, not just the general public, but I mentioned that 34 Fairview is where the body of John McKee was found, and so there's the Boston police officer and those living inside the house.
• 19:15
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Their claim is that they don't know anything about it.
• 19:19
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: They don't know anything.
• 19:20
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: People were coming and going.
• 19:22
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: They're celebrating a birthday party.
• 19:24
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: They were out on the town drinking for quite a while and then took the after party back to their house.
• 19:32
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: They claim that they didn't realize until quite a while after that the child was found, that they didn't see the police see the scene outside their window.
• 19:51
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Then there was a dog that was involved, and so the defense is the dog has been rehomed, so the dog is no longer living at that residence.
• 20:06
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: The defense had talked heavily in the first trial about how they they believe that there was some type of altercation inside of the house, some type of altercation inside of the house.
• 20:25
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: After karen Read left.
• 20:26
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: She dropped that, she dropped john off, that he went inside and and there's some altercation dog was involved.
• 20:30
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: They show pictures of his arm and, uh, there are individuals believing that it looks like marks of a dog bite teeth versus taillight of the Lexus.
• 20:55
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And then there's the other side and there's been a reconstruction that happened, and there's been a reconstruction that happened and that remains to be seen what impact that will have on the jury, because this reconstruction happened at such a low speed I think it was like three or four miles per hour where it's come out that, in order for certain events to have occurred, that the Lexus had to be backing up, because, right, this broken taillight is in the back of the Lexus SUV, the Lexus SUV that Karen Read would have had to, I think, go maybe 20 or 22 or 23 miles per hour for a sustained period in order to strike John O'Keefe, like the Commonwealth prosecution is saying and defense has come out against this expert, this reconstructionist, done at the 20, whatever the amount of miles per hour that the claim that the SUV was going to strike John O'Keefe at that it wasn't done and in the reconstruction, to use a human being and put some paint on the arm that they believe would show that the taillight could in fact potentially cause those marks that were on John Key's arm was those marks that were on John Keith's arm and some defenses saying, hey, you didn't do.
• 23:06
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: You know what's come out, you know the 20-plus miles per hour and obviously that wouldn't have turned out well for the person.
• 23:22
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: But, as we know, with cars and trucks, suvs, they go through a series of tests, safety tests, and they don't have humans in there, they have, I'm going to say, mannequins, crash test dummies.
• 23:37
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And so that's where the defense is is uh, is thinking uh, and so there's right, you know, pick a side.
• 23:48
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh, there's some we agree on one side and a little bit on the other, uh, but this case has just been incredible.
• 23:57
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: From uh, it struck the interest, uh, I mean so much so that just about all the uh court tv coverage, for since the trial and even uh since some of the hearings before the trial happened, they had spent so much of their time on this particular trial and to lead up to it, and now during it, they're spending, you know, their, their, their prime time shows all on on this particular case and they're given updates on other trials, like the, you know the P Diddy the Diddy sex trafficking abuse trial that is going on in the federal courthouse and in the state of New York, and so you know this episode we talked about a lot.
• 25:08
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: But trauma of individuals can happen, and so we, you know, we talked about, you know, the family of the deceased.
• 25:15
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: We talked about the family and the individuals that live at the house where this uh alleged murder.
• 25:22
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: She karenry's been tried for murder so she could let, she could, in theory, uh go to prison for the rest of her life.
• 25:30
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And so then there's the, the trauma of her going through this, this ordeal.
• 25:37
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And now, you know, people can pick sides on who they believe, one or the other.
• 25:44
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And then we have also the mental health of we didn't really talk about it but the attorneys as well.
• 25:52
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I mean, that's their profession and so that's something that they're used to, but their mental health is something to be thinking about as well as the judge.
• 26:11
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So we thank you for joining us on this episode of the Voices for Voices TV show and podcast, on this episode of the Voices for Voices TV show and podcast.
• 26:24
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Until next time.
• 26:26
  Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I am your host, founder and executive director of Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes, and please be a voice for you or somebody in need.