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Star Wars Super Bowl Takeover and the Death of Bioware CCCX · Star Wars Alliance

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The Force will be with you. Always.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Hello and welcome back to another episode of Star Wars Alliance.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Of course, I'm your host Clay and with me... Like
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: every single week, of course, is Katie. Katie, how are
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: you doing today?
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: I'm good.
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: How are you, Clay? Remember that I now have this
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: fancy-dancy selfie night.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: One more setting and then you're good. Oh, setting. Oh. Wait.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: There we go. There we go.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: There we go.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, we are here. How am I doing?
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: I am doing okay. We have some news that is
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: truly heartbreaking for some gaming veterans in the Star Wars
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: fandom that we need to talk about. But other than that,
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: I think I am doing well. I actually just got
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: done listening to to Master of Evil because, of course,
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: today is our.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: Re-review?
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Re-review? Re-discussion? What's the right phrase for this, people? This
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: is not something that we've... A retro of a book
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: that came out just a few months ago?
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: A year ago.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: A year ago, actually. Yeah, yeah, actually. Now that I
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: think about it. So.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to be re-discussing Master of Evil. That's
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: going to be our last topic of the night. If
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: you are new to the channel, a little backstory. When
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: we first discussed Master of Evil, we were both kind
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: of okay and we liked the book. Now, there is
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: going to be a question that I ask. in this
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: episode and i'll go ahead and kind of make help
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: you think about it while we're talking about other things
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: okay but one thing that we both agreed on and
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: was a reoccurring theme throughout books that were coming out
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: last year was they were being advertised as these like
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: hey this is the story and once you read the
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: story that wasn't really the theme um in particular with
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: masters of evil, uh, of course, mastery of evil made
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: it sound like, okay, this is going to be a
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Darth Vader book. It is a Darth Vader book, but
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: it really kind of focused on a different main character
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: of the story. I'm going to, we're going to come
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: back to that to see if our minds changed at
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: all for that. Uh, but also, uh, One part of
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: the review, which I found super hilarious, and I actually
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: need to go back and actually listen to the episode again.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: But I was like super enthralled at one part of
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: the book. And Katie was just like, what are you
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: talking about? What are you talking about? I have no idea.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: You are speaking of something that does not exist in
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: this book. I was like, Katie, literally, they spell it
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: out for you. this is what happens at the very
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: end of the book. And she's like, oh, crap. I
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: guess I missed that.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: I read this book, y'all. To be clear, I read
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: this book three times physically. Like, I was listening to
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: it this time around, and I'm like, oh, this is
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: a very good audiobook production. Like, it really is. Mark
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: Thompson killed it. But I read this book three times
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: physically and still miss the holocrimes. at the end yep
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: yep so that's why we're doing a re-review guys so we're.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Doing because because without that context like the real like
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: end result of this story doesn't make a whole lot
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: of sense if that is completely missing so now that
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: katie has since read it and understands the context of
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: everything that i was talking about last time That is
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: why we were having this discussion. But, as I said,
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: we do have some news topics today. This week.
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: Oh, and final thing on the older review, guys. Clay
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: will link that for you in the description box below.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, I will.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: So that way you can listen to the whole encompassing thing.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: It was... We were, like, speechless for, like, a good
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: 15 minutes. And I know Clay probably edited that down.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, like, we... because we were like i said
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: it i was like this is what happened and katie
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: kind of like looked at me like a deer in
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: the headlights and then rebuttal and was like no that's
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: not what happened i was like katie it literally says
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: this is what happened and this is why vader learns
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: his lesson quote unquote and she's like well that doesn't
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: make any sense at all And then we literally both
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: got our books on the podcast, flipped through the last pages.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: So you hear a little bit of page flipping, a
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: little bit of pausing, and then Katie was like, oh. Well, yeah,
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: I missed that. So it's a fun lesson.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: Again, sometimes when we read these books, I only get
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: one read, and I'm very clear about that. But in
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: this case... I read that book three times.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: We, we had the privilege of getting that book very early.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: And one thing that if you are newer to the
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: show and don't understand why this is happening, Katie is
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: a speed demon when it comes to reading. And she
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: taught me these powers. Sometimes I feel like they're the
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: powers of the dark side, but it, it.
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: It can help what you have to do.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: And so in that podcast, go listen to it because
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: she explains how she speed reads the process that she
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: goes with. And then I'm like, Oh, well that's why
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: you missed it because it's right here. And she's like,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So I
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: will link the old master of evil review inside the
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: of the show notes for this episode so if you
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: want to listen to the news and then go listen
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: to the older master of evil review and then come
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: back to this one you'll have a lot more context
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: for what we're going to talk about so the news
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: topics today um we got news that uh the super
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: bowl is.
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: I cackled at this.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: This, okay, so this has become like a newer thing recently. Yeah.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: I did not watch the Disney Plus one last year,
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: or was it the year before?
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: So Disney Plus, Disney Pluses was, I think, the college
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: football national championship, whereas this is like the actual Super
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: Bowl championship.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: Well, the thing is, Nickelodeon, Paramount Plus.
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: Nickelodeon has done Spongebob.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Spongebob, yeah. And I don't think it's just Spongebob. I
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: think it's every single one of their Nickelodeon IPs that
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: are a part of it. But Patrick and Spongebob specifically
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: hosted the commentary. So now it's Star Wars' turn.
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: I'm down i don't know how they are it's a
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: real-time animated recreation so i'm sure it's like some sort
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: of 3d ai thing that does it we've.
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: Done this previously and i don't think it has incorporated
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: ai it's literally just like they have like the characters
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: pre-programmed as who the players are And then are kind
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: of like, so it's not necessarily real time, but it's
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: like seconds behind as they like say like, oh, and
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: I'm throwing this name out there because this one's at
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: the top of my list. It's like Travis Kelsey for
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: a touchdown. Yeah.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: And I think there is some like coding animation where
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: like you could literally sync an already moving product via video.
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: And incorporate it into animation. So I'm not just going
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: to throw it out and be like, oh, this is AI. So, like,
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: you will see that. There was some really funny clips
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: from the stuff that I saw with Spongebob and the
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: Nickelodeon stuff. And so, like, it got a little bit
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: of a giggle for me. So, like, maybe this is
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: how I, like, kind of introduce Amberlynn to football and sports.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: She's never really been in sports at all at the
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: age of four. We go and watch my sister play
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: volleyball every now and again. But even then, Amberlynn does
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: not like loud spaces. So everybody cheering and stuff like that.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: Even my mom yelling at the TV screen, whenever we're
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: watching football, like Amberlynn has a problem with it. So
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know if she will ever get over that,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: but we'll see.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: When there was like a game delay and we got
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: home and I was jumping around and like saying like,
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: go tiger. She was like too loud. Mommy too loud.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Well, no, like literally the, the last tournament that my
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: sister had was on Monday. It was the final game
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: for the school. Was bracket.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: The school season, school bracket, whatever. And as soon as
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: we got there, we all sit down and like the first,
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: like really loud commotion that happened. Amberlynn with her headphones
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: on looking at her iPad to kind of like, just
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: stay focused and not have to listen to everybody else.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: She looked at my mom. Because my mom just goes
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: crazy when it comes to crowds and sports and stuff.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: She looked right at my mom and goes, shh. I'm like,
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: I love it. This is amazing. This is great. And so, like,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: I love her to death. I just, I know she's
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: kind of sensitive to that stuff. So, this, I think,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: she will, I think it'll at least, like, grab her
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: attention for a little bit. We'll see how long it
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: actually grabs her attention. And then the rest of our
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: news is gaming related. The big thing, before we get
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: to the sad news, Battlefront 3 was heavily rumored last week.
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for the longest time.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Wow. There was always kind of like rumblings and people
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: were like, oh, is this actually going to happen and whatnot?
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: I believe it was, I actually have the conversation in
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: the Geekverse Discord. It was two days ago. Two days ago,
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: they were hearing rumblings that Bungie and Dice were going
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: to be collaborating to create... to make Battlefront 3. And
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: it's funny because I posted in the video game channel
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: and I was like, DICE sees the success of Zero
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Company and Galactic Racer. DICE sees the dead and dwindling
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: franchise of Battlefront. DICE. I have an idea and it's
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: a gif of freaking Patrick Star from Spongebob. Because this
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: is both a good and bad thing. Now, two days ago,
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: it was rumored for Bungie and Ice. It has been
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: confirmed today that it's actually Respawn and Dice.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: Which Respawn produces Jedi Knight.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: Fallen Order.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: Okay. Yeah.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: See, I do listen. So, when this kind of was
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: confirmed and they're like, oh, this is actually happening, people
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: are excited for this. I am still holding my expectations. Because, Katie,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you know this at all. When
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Battlefront 2 was first released... They basically saw it as like, hey,
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: this whole live service thing that's happening with all of
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: the games that are coming out, we should do that
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: times 100 so that way we make as much money
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: as possible.
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: And so what ended up happening was you had to
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: pay for online to play online. Then you needed to...
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Have some sort of EA subscription.
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: I feel like this was like. The microtransactions.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah this was like the micro. This was. When people.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Because now. At 2026. Microtransactions are so jaded. And so hated.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: From the community. To a point where live service gaming.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Like people my age. And I want to say. Like
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: older Gen Z players. Are tired of live service gaming. Yeah.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: People have their favorites. And they stick with that. They
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: don't add any new games to that. Because they know
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: how much it can be. A money vacuum.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: But that Battlefront 2. Was the start.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Of.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: This is what gaming is going to be like. We
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: got to do something about that. And that was 20,
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: that was 10 years ago.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Which is insane. So now with Battlefront 3, everybody's yelling
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: their cheers and it feels like I'm the only one
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: that's like, do we not remember what happened 10 years
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: ago with Battlefront 2?
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: And the hope would be right that because there's different
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: producers at play, that it would be a little bit
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: different because as we're going to talk about EA clearly
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: has gone down the pipeline. Um, so the hope would
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: be that it's different. Um, I never delved into battlefront.
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: So my only experience with battlefront is in fact the
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: battlefront novels.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Um, i recommend like if you now here's the thing
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: i know that you guys well matt is an xbox
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: gamer he is not a big playstation gamer um but
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: i know you guys own a playstation correct.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: We have a playstation 4.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Playstation 4 um oh gosh i don't know if the
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: playstation 4 servers are still up though that's the only
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: thing um and i don't think it would be worth
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: it to even like try and look at it um
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Battlefront is EA's answer to Call of Duty. Okay. It
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: is a Call of Duty-esque game. The only cool thing
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: about it, of course, it being Star Wars, is cool.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: But the fact that there's two types of modes that
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: you can play. You can either play boots on the ground...
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: you know, team against team, or you could do fighter pilot.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: You can go X wings versus tie fighters in space.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: So it can get really, really intense. Um, each time,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: like when your boots on the ground, and I think
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: you can even do it with space fighters as well,
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: but like you get enough kills enough points, um, And
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: if you're fast enough, because they have it to a way, like,
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: you have to do it quicker than the other person
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: that's also trying to do it, they have, like, legacy
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: heroes that you can choose from if you have enough
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: points to purchase that character in the middle of the game. So, like,
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: you can have characters like Rey, Kylo, or Finn and Poe,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, uh, and things like that. So, uh, it's,
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: it's a really, really, really fun franchise. Battlefront first was
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: introduced back in the PlayStation two PlayStation PSP era. Yeah. Um,
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: and we had very, very, uh, limited conversations of, of
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: that back when I think like a couple of months ago. Um,
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: But the franchise is very popular. It's something that people
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: genuinely love. I am just a little bit hesitant because
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: of the microtransaction hell that we were in with Battlefront 2.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: But thus comes the bad news. Really somber news, more
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: so because this was like the golden age of gaming.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: when a lot of these games came out. But EA
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: has officially closed the door on BioWare. BioWare, and I
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: want to see if I can actually find the, the
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: actual wording from Bioware themselves. But Bioware created games like
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Knights of the Old Republic. The Knights of the Republic
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: online game. uh boulders gate um they also created dragon
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: age things like that uh even on the geekverse discord
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: when this was shared people were just like oh.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: Shit it's a big video.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Game world yeah um also a big title of theirs
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: is mass effect um Like Travis saying, damn, huge piece
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: of gaming history. The industry is really shitting on itself
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: was Superbad Mike is something they said. But the actual
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: words from BioWare, I want to read it right here, says,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: for more than 30 years, BioWare has been more than
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: a studio. It has been a home for storytelling, developers,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: and the players who brought our worlds to life. Boulder's Gate, Neverwinter,
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Anthem.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Anthem was another one of their titles. Now, after more
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: than three decades of shared adventures, BioWare is closing and
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: early development on the next Mass Effect project is ending.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: There is nothing easy about writing these words. Our focus
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: right now is on our incredibly talented team. who put
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: their hearts into these games and supporting one another through
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: this transition. What generations of Bioware built together is something
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: to celebrate and remember. These games become so much more
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: because you played them, debated your choices, fell in love
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: with the characters, and made these worlds your own. From
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: all of us at Bioware, thank you for being the
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: most meaningful part of our story. This genuinely sucks. Now,
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: for those of you who are like, oh no, the
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: KOTOR remake, Bioware literally has nothing to do with it anymore.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: That's what I thought.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Bioware literally just gave them all of the assets to
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: their previous original game and said, okay, hands off, have fun,
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: see what y'all can do. So nothing there is affecting
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: any current Star Wars projects. But I did want to
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: mention this because of how much Knights of the Old
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Republic has influenced Star Wars gaming since its creation. Of course,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: you had the success of Knights of the Old Republic 2.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: was not a huge Bioware, uh, project. It was actually
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: just something that they signed off on, uh, to have
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: somebody else make. But then of course you had, uh, Knights, uh,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: Knights of the Old Republic or, or sorry.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: Uh, they did do KOTOR.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: No, no.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Well, the KOTOR, yes, but it was also, what was
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: the other game? Uh, Star Wars game. It's an online
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: service game. Uh, Not Knights of the Old Republic, but
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: Knights of the Republic. I think is the online game.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: I can't remember what it is. But what I'm saying
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: is that recently got opted into having a different development
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: team take over. So I think this was a slow
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: transition into something that they probably were afraid of like
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: might happen yeah so uh a lot of their live
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: service stuff was like hey let's just move this over
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: over here.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: Um so it says kotor the old republic.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Yes the old republic that's it that's what it is
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: so there's knights of the old republic and then there's
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: star wars the old republic which is the live service
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: online mmo um So that game is still going. Servers
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: are still up. They have a new development team working
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: with all of that. But for something non-Star Wars related,
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Mass Effect. They just said the next installment of Mass
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Effect is ending. They're not making it anymore. What they
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: didn't mention, there was a Mass Effect TV series that
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: was in development at Amazon. Now we have no idea
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: if that is actually going to keep production or if
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: they're just going to kill it off. We'll see when
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: it comes to that. I just wanted to mention this
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: Bioware stuff because of the huge importance of Knights of
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: the Old Republic. Remember, we still have the... spiritual successor
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: uh eclipse that is coming out which we would not
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: have without kotor yeah um and i actually have like
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: really contemplated um playing knights of the old republic and
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: streaming it so i think this might be like the
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: deciding factor of like wanting to go back to it
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: and play it um For those of you who actually
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: still have it physically, but don't have an old console,
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: I do know that Xbox has been slowly getting back
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: their backwards compatibility and their disc-to-digital program that they're pushing
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: through Xbox. I don't know if Knights of the Old
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Republic is on it, but I do know that they're
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: slowly trying to get that there. I don't know what
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: happens to the disc-to-digital part with BioWare just not available anymore.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know how the rights work with all of that.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: So if you have it digitally... Do not delete it.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Do not sell that console. Or if you do, you
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: can sell it as like, hey, this is a more
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: valuable product because of these dead games are on this console.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: And you could never sign out of it, you know?
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: But yeah, really somber moment today. Yeah. It's sad.
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Again, I don't have a lot of weight in this.
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: I hate it for the people involved. Obviously, Bioware is
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: a huge legacy. So it sucks. And hopefully it doesn't
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: continue to happen.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Hopefully, my thing is hopefully this doesn't keep happening because
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: somebody did point out earlier today that that this is
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: like the 12th freaking uh development team uh and company
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: that EA has basically killed.
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: Yeah um and that's what I saw too and looking
• 28:15
  Speaker 5: at some of the titles that all these other companies
• 28:18
  Speaker 5: had like created they had.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Actual franchises successful franchises um That EA has just decided
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: to just, eh, we don't need you. And this is
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: going to be a little bit of a rant for me.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: So if you guys want to skip ahead, you can
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: skip ahead. But remember, Paramount is evil. The people that
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: own it are evil. And the people who own it
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: really want to mirror this current administration to get as
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: much money as possible for themselves, not for the company themselves.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: They don't want to spread the wealth. The person who
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: owns the company just wants all the money. They don't
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: care about the success of other projects because the success
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: of other projects means that they have to spend more
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: money to create new things. They don't want to create
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: new things. They don't want to re-release old things. They
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: literally just want to pack all the money into their
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: casket and die with it, which is stupid. Okay, I'm done. Now,
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: without further ado. we are going into our Master of
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Evil re-review. Oh, that's upside down.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: Nope, that's still upside down. Here we go.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Master of Evil. Of course, this was written by Adam Christopher.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: Great book. Love the book.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it holds up very nicely on the reread. And
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: I actually appreciated it more. I'm glad we didn't do
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: this back-to-back with the original review. And I know we
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: were swamped when this came out originally, so that's why
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: we didn't do it back-to-back. But it gave me some
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: time to think about it. And so to answer your
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: question earlier on, does the synopsis match what's in the book?
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: On this read, I do actually think the synopsis matches better.
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: Specifically in the terms of finding the resurrectionist. Because of
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: the conversation that Vader has at the end when he's
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: in the void for that final time. And he has
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: that conversation with the Padme shadow. And Padme's like, the
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: past is the past. You can't go back to it.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: kind of thing. And he says over and over again,
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: but we could go back and it could be the
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: exact same as it was. We'll be fine. Padme's like,
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: you can't do that. And that's the learning moment that
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: Vader realizes and where he recognizes, okay, hey, I can't
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: just go take on Palpatine because I need the power
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: that he has. And he's not willing to just take
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: on this void. He wants to actually go learn. And so...
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: There's where I feel like the synopsis does match. It
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: just took a little more digging and concentration to really
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: match it up.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: What did you think? I think that this does... I
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: think I enjoyed it more this time around than the
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: first time. I think we were really hypercritical of the
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: book itself. just because it was a very like recent
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: and hot topic of, Hey, a lot of these synopses
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: are not matching up to multiple books that we're reading.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Like what is going on? Now, Holland is a very
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: important part of this story. Also very relevant to just
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: the outside world as well. And one thing that I
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: did want to mention here is how ironic is it
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: that the Empire of all entities gave Holland the privilege.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: Of a.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Handicap? With his droid. They gave him permission. With a.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: With a government. That the empire is. Written after. And
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: the policies. That we know of. That said government. Again
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: not trying to ruffle feathers. But I'm saying it plainly. Healthcare.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: Is not a priority. Really. But how ironic. is it
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: that this mid thirties, I'm kind of guessing is. Yeah.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: I feel like he's young. I feel like he's young ish.
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah. For the chronic illness that he has, I feel
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: like he's on the young side because they specifically state, Oh,
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: with a Kangli syndrome, like most people don't even make
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: it to where I'm at. Like, But I guess they
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: do talk about the gray in his hair. So he
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: may be slightly older.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: He might be a little bit older.
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: But to the point that the Empire gave him that,
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: he asked for it knowing he was going to hack it.
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: And it kind of shows you that back door that
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: he's having to take with it. Because the Empire, theoretically,
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: that we know of, doesn't know about his condition.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: And so that's the whole point.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: He does not want them to know Because then he
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: would be forced into retirement. Or even worse. Thought of
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: as unfit.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: And basically gets taken out. Yeah exactly.
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: Like assassinated. Dunzo.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: But. Holland is a very important character of this story. Because.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: Of the literal mirror. To Darth Vader. You know. His obsession.
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: Of.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: Finding a way to live to fight this illness for
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: anybody who has had a an illness such as this
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: and has had to fight the reality like it is
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: a battle of like hey is it a come to
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: terms moment or do literally anything and everything that you
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: can to take at least one more breath of this life,
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: which is what Holland is desperately trying to do. I still, like,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: I was a little annoyed the first time I read
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: this book of his character. Reading it now, so many months,
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: you know, one year from when we last read it,
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: I really enjoyed his character. Yes. I enjoy the aspect
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: of like, and again, I think it has also to
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: do with the fact that we also read freaking Hidden
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: in the Dark, or what was it called?
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: Hiding from the Dark.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Hiding from the Dark, excuse me. Again, encapsulating Darth Vader
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: as just like this thing that You know, not really
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: knowing who he is or what he is. But then
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: connecting the dots himself. Oh, that's not just a suit
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: of armor. That thing is keeping him alive. So like
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: I like like there's there's so many stories out there
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: of like people finding out Superman and Batman secret identity.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: And they're just normal people.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: This is in the same vein. Holland is just some
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: normal guy. And he doesn't figure out that he's Anakin Skywalker.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: But he puts a one-to-one because of his own illness. Oh,
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: I hear the breathing. I see all the machinations. He
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: is surviving. He's not just living. So I like that.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: I really, really enjoy that.
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: I do too. It's a good parallel because Holland's illness
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: is what we like to call not visible. It's an
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: invisible chronic illness. And so you've got one guy who's dying,
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: but it's completely invisible to most people unless he's experiencing symptoms.
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: And then you have the other guy who's dying without
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: the suit. And it's fully visible that unless he's kept
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: alive by this suit, he's dead. And they go to
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: great lengths to keep that hidden, but the more time
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: you clearly spend around Vader based on everything we've read,
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: the more people realize that that is a life-sustaining suit
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: that he's in. So it's really a good parallel by
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: Christopher the entire way to use those characters in parallel.
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: I do hope we get to see Nines and... Oh gosh,
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: what's the daughter's name?
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: I literally just had it. Hold on. Please hold.
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: I do hope we get to see them again. It
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: is like maybe minor characters moving forward. But.
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of potential there from what
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: Christopher set up to really use them in different ways.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, shoot. I have the character list here, and it's
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: not even... Oh my god, what is her name? Anusha!
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: Yes. I managed to flip right to the page that
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: had her name on it. Because Zerun's the mom, Holland
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: is the other main character, Nines is the droid, and
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: then Anusha's the daughter.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah.
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: I still have issues with My main issue with the
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: book is the cyber junkies in this.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Near the end, yeah.
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I felt like they came in too late into
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: the story, and then Christopher had to rush the characterization
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: on them to really expand why they were there and stuff.
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: I would have just preferred the rest of it, I
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: feel like. So.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: and no offense to Adam's writing capabilities whatsoever. I almost
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: don't even think you need them.
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: That's what I'm thinking too.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: Um, because, uh, because like you write it as though, Oh,
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: they need another conflict to stop the other part of
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: this team while Vader is already fighting the vortex. Right. Um,
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: I think this other shadow Vader is a big enough
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: and scary enough.
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: You could have changed things around to where he was
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: more of a villain. He had more scenes in the
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: book and not needed the cyber.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: Tech people.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Well, cause like this, the fact that like you get
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: into this, like, very hyper horror-esque like scenario when you
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: get inside of the temple yep like the clone that
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: witnessed everything is like wait was that Vader wait was
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: that Vader why is there two Vader's what's going on
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: like it gets really really creepy and you can play
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: through that so much more when when you talk about
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: shadows shadows are everywhere and like that Shadow Vader could
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: literally be anywhere and everywhere all at once. So I
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: don't think you needed this entirely new group following them
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: because that's another thing. Is like the idea for one,
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: going back to the very beginning of this book, beginning
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: and end of this book, finding out and realizing all
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: at the same time that dooku landed this thing in
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: a middle of a hyperspace lane got it stuck and
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: then having the talent and the precision to land on
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: it not anybody can do that. And to then get
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: these hyperspace junkies to be like, that's where we need
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: to go. And then they're able to do it too.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Because of, because of, oh gosh, just like early,
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: like beta technology.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Like that's not interesting.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: It's not interesting. It makes it a little less. Wow.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: For me. Right. Which is why I think if you
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: just take them out entirely and, You can still use.
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: Nine's like Droid Matrix.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: Droid Matrix and a capability of like absorbing entities or whatever.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: You could still use that within the temple without the
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: space junkies.
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: No? And so I think that is probably the only
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: gripe that I have here.
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: Same.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: Leaning out of it knowing what I know now having
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: read it and heard the holocron um being brought to
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: play um it it makes a lot more sense having
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: that realization that the conversation with Padme is kind of
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: his journey with resurrection and his acceptance that hey it's
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: not gonna happen kind of thing um It makes the
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: book work a whole lot better in the grand scheme
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: of things. I do still question. This is the last
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: thing I have. So is the Virgins now the Holocron?
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: I don't believe so.
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: So the Virgins just disappeared.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: Well, you know what? That's a good question, actually. Because
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: have we ever had a scenario of a destroyed Virgins?
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: Because in my mind, I don't think a Virgins can
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: be destroyed.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: That's the thing that I'm wondering, too. But the Void
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: clearly disappeared. Vader came away with the Holocron at the
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: end of it. So maybe it was never actually a
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: vergence and maybe it was just the holocron that was
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: projecting that strength because we know that there's precedent for that, right?
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: And so maybe Vader thought it was a vergence, but
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: in all actuality, it was the persona in the holocron.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: That's a good question. I never really thought about it
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: that way, actually. I'm going to.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: I was so confident when you first asked. I was like, nah, nah.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: But now, I am willing to headcanon and say yes.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: I'm willing to say that now.
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: Is that The Virgins is the holocron?
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But see, for me, like... Now the question is.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: Where is that holocron?
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: I mean, I would assume it got buried on Coruscant and, like,
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: all the riots and stuff. And, like, it ended up...
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: Or it ended up on Exegol. It ended up in
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: Sirius's personal collection.
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: Well, like, that's the thing.
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: It's not Sirius.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: So... One thing that we had talked about prior to
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: the book coming out, because it was mentioned by... Adam Christopher.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: And I can't remember if we had mentioned it while
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: we were talking about it the first time we reviewed
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: this book. But Adam Christopher said that he knows of
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: a little sliver of time within the Charles Soule's run
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: of Darth Vader where this book takes place.
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: And we discussed in the original review where we thought
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: that took place because we specifically read the Charles Soule
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: run to try and figure out where we thought that
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: would take place.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: I don't remember which issues we set off the top
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: of our head, but I do know we discussed that.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: Because I was going to say, like, it almost makes sense. Almost.
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: Almost.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Because I'm actually looking at Volume 1 on this other
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: screen here. At the very end of the book, there
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: is a... Well, he has his lightsaber, so I don't think....
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it would be after Volume 1 because of the
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: fact that he has the lightsaber and he has to
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: go bleed the crystal. So, like, the first part, because we...
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: we journey through that bleeding of the crystal at the
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: same time as the comic. So the first part of
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: the book takes place.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Well, that's what I mean. So like at the very
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: end of what I think would be the first, is
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: it issue one? Is it only issue one where he
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: is getting the crystal? Oh, no, no. So it would be, So, okay, so... Oh,
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: this is the omnibus that I'm actually... It's collection number
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: one that I'm actually looking at. So, the first volume has,
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: all the way up until the very last page, he
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: shows Vader the lightsaber, and he says, Master.
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: I think that's, like, the last... thing and the next
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: thing you know vader is um inside of a bank
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: to tank because he's all messed up from forging the crystal.
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: But technically, I think there's a possibility that from the
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: last page of volume one and the first page, volume
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: 2 is you see Palpatine looking at Vader's armor all
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: laid out and he's saying why Lord Vader you have
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: ruined yourself and in the comic it literally looks like
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: oh this is literally just of him creating his lightsaber
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: But there's a possibility that after the conversation of him
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: having his lightsaber is actually the conversation that Holland is
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: then introduced into saying, hey, follow him into this mission.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: So in between volume one and volume two is where
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: Master of Evil takes place.
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: That's what you're thinking?
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm thinking.
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: I believe I agree with that, based on the conversation
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: that we had previously. Because I feel like the next part, yeah,
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: is like issue 7, between issue 6 and 7. I'm sorry,
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: not 6 and 7. It would be 5 and 6.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: Because the next arc is all about the Inquisitors. The Inquisitors.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: And I don't think the Inquisitors are a thing at
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: the time of Masters of Evil. At least, there's no
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: mention of them. Doesn't mean they're not a thing. But....
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: Because for one, I do believe the first mission that
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: Vader goes on in this story of Masters of Evil
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: to find... this like force sensitive family or whatever, that
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: would have been a mission for the inquisitors.
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So, but see, like he goes, he goes from
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: repairing his suit. This is him repairing a suit down here.
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: Uh huh. And he goes from there to the Jedi
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: Temple to deal with the Grand Inquisitor.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: So I don't actually think it's that part. Because Sidious
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: tells him, like, hey, like, there's work to be done.
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: Adjust the suit as you see fit. And you clearly
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: see him screwing everything back in. And then he heads
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: straight to the temple.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: No, no, no. I'm saying in between... Here, watch. Let
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: me see if I can share my screen real quick.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: Share actual screen. Okay. So.
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So that page.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: So this is the end of volume one. Then Master
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: of Evil takes place. And at the very end, he
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: hands him the holocron. And then after he goes, after
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: he hands him the holocron, then he goes and goes
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: into the back to take, because he's already all messed
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: up from everything that happened in the temple. And then
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: volume two happens. So imagine just grabbing your master of
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: evil book and placing it after this page. And then act, like,
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: just imagine you read Volume 1, then you read Master
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: of Evil, then you read Volume 2. That's what I think.
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: No, because that conversation takes place at the end of
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: Chapter 2 of Master of Evil. I'm showing you the
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: page so you can see what's on my page. But, like.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, I guess you're right.
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: It takes place at the beginning of chapter three.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: So that makes even more sense. So as some people do,
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: and I'll actually remove this so we can actually see
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: each other. So from time to time in comics, doesn't
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: happen all the time, but even in TV shows, Katie,
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: even in TV shows, you know how you watch an
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: episode and it kind of ends on a cliffhanger? And
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: then you watch the very next episode and the first
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: three minutes of the newest episode is actually the last
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: three minutes of the last episode. That's essentially what Master
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: of Evil is doing. It's reiterating it for people who
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: haven't read Volume 1 of Char's Soul. And then it
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: takes place right there. That's what I think. Or I
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: can try to find Adam Christopher on social media and
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: just ask him.
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: You think it's been long enough that he would tell us?
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: I thought we had said we thought it took place
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: later in the book. Before he goes back to Mustafar.
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: Because there's also a moment in the book or in
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: the collection of Charles Soule's run Where he's dealing with
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: all of the, like... Whatchamacallit. All the sabotage that's been from...
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: From Jocosta. Like, blowing up the ship and everything else.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: There's a moment in that arc... Where... Vader is sitting
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: at his little, like, in his quarters or whatever. And
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: we were like, oh, is the ending of the book
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: right here? Like, I think that's what we had discussed also.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: But there's just a lot that happens that doesn't feel
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: like you can just squeeze an entire novel in there,
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: you know?
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: Because I don't know... Because this has... This collection only
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: has up to... I don't know. This has up to
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: issue 12. So this is like a deluxe.
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: There might be a issue where.
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: A holocron is mentioned and then we can be like, Oh,
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: there it is. You know?
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And I think, cause I think Adam Christopher pulled
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: the holocron from one of like the later comics. Like
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: he took inspiration from that. I want to say, but
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: it wouldn't be trial souls run. It would be one
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: of the other runs of Vader. Let's see.
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: Darth Vader. vader okay so okay so i'm actually getting
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: the actual tweet from when the book was announced um
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: this period is covered very well in charles soul's marvel
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: comic Except there are gaps in the comics. And there
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: is a particular gap in the comic that I don't
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: think Charles or even Marvel know about. Was his exact quote. Right. So...
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: It may even be deeper into the actual series. And
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: I'm just kind of looking at the beginning. And that's
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: mainly because... Of the conversation at the very beginning of
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: the book, which is at the beginning of Charles Soule's run.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: With everything dealing with the lightsaber, the bleeding of the crystal, Obi-Wan,
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: like all of that stuff.
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: Okay, so Wikipedia says....
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: I've had the Wikipedia up and it has it right
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: here this whole time.
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: Wikipedia says it does take place over the course of
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: issues five and six.
• 59:21
  Speaker 5: So....
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: Validation!
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: Oh, it's... It's said to be so in Star Wars timeline.
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: I don't think this, I don't think that source is
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: accurate because this came out before Master of Evil.
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, no, Katie. It says here. and fills in a
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: gap of one of the series timeline jumps. So the
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: series they're talking about, not timelines, Charles souls, Darth Vader
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: run that, that run has a timeline gap. No.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: So if you look at where it says on Wikipedia,
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: it says fills in a gap of one of the
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: series timelines jumps 10 source 10 and taking place over
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: the course of issues 5 and 6, which is source
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: number 3. If you click 3, it takes you down
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: to 3.0, 3.1. The events of Master of Evil began
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: during the events of Darth Vader 2017-5 and then spanned
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: to the events of Darth Vader 6, which correspond to
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: 19 BBY per Star Wars timelines. Huh.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, wait, wait, wait. Hold on. I think they're saying...
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: that five and six take place. That's what they're saying.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: They're not saying master of evil. They're saying the events
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: of issue number five and issue number six take place
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: in the year of 19 BBY, which you can find
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: that proof within timelines.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Okay.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: That's what they're saying. Yeah. So this, so this book,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: So this book is in the year of 19 BBY
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: is what they're saying.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: And it takes place in between issues five and six. Yes. Vindication.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: Well, no, because what you just said is that the
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: first part of the book contains issues five and six.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: It doesn't necessarily span that time span.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: What?
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: So issue five and issue six take place at the
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: beginning of the book.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: Yes. Issue five does. Issue five takes place at the
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: end of issue five takes place at the beginning of
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: Master of Evil. Then the rest of the book happens
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: and then if Adam Christopher like if you were to
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: infuse this into Charles Soule's run, you would read it
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: as issue one through five, then read Master of Evil,
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: then read issue six immediately after. That's what you would do.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: We're going to agree to disagree. I think it takes
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: place later in the series. Also, to correct myself, Timelines
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: came out April 25th, 2023.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: I was going to say, I was still living... in
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: texas when it came out and i i had it
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: when when amberlynn was born yep um or no no
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: it was it was after amberlynn was born but yeah
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: um dude.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: I just see your comics it's flashing so hard.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah i i'm i'm scrolling all the way back to
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: where we where i think it happened because it just
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: it just makes sense it makes sense Like, if you
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: literally just take away the first three chapters of Master
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: of Evil, because it's already reiterated in issue five, then
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: you read on from chapter four all the way through
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: 51 or whatever many chapters, and then read issue six.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: It literally makes sense. Because you can assume that after
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: everything that happens, again, because... Darth Vader still took a
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: beating in that book. You then open up issue six
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: to see him all sorts of messed up inside of
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: a bank to take. It makes sense.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: I just don't know because Goth never says like, oh,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 3: his legs busted up in this. Like his leg doesn't
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: flow with the rest of the suit. Like in the comic,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: the leg stands out. So I don't feel like Sidious
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: would have gone, oh, you're my representative. I'm going to
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: send you on an official diplomatic mission to Saibot, and
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: you're going to look grungy as heck.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: I think that part, and this is where... This is why.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: This is why the idea of everything needs to be
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: canon can get a little messy.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: And playing too much in the same sandbox.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: And playing too much in the same sandbox, 100%. But
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: it's the idea of, oh, it's up to interpretation, right?
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 3: Correct.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: And so... The idea of Adam Christopher not putting specific
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: details on the battle damage that Darth Vader may or
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: may not already have in this adventure, I don't think
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: is 100% necessary.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: No, and you're right. But I also feel like Appa
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: would have said the same thing because of the prosthetic
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: leg that he's under stress with, too. Like... oh, like,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: clearly Vader has taken some damage. Like, we get into
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: Oppo's head when Vader's fixing his leg in the middle
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: of the book. And I would have thought, like, oh, like,
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 3: this guy clearly takes care of his clones. He has
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: a thought, like, oh, like, could he be Anakin? Like,
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: in a sense. But I also felt like he would
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 3: have said something because it's just what people do. So.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: There we go. Yeah. That is true. I will take
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: your point on that. I do think that, like, at
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: that point, it becomes the idea of Adam being too
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: nitpicky on the details. you know, of like, Hey, like
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: we're already getting like this interpretation of this clone. Do
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: we really need to add more to what like that is,
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: you know? Right. So I don't, I don't know. Now
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: I just really want to, I honestly haven't seen Adam
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: Christopher post in so long. And that's more so to
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: me not being heavily on the, social media to begin with.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: I might see if he's on threads. If he is
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: on threads, then I'll see if I can be like, hey,
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: we read this book again. Can you confirm if this
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: book is between these two issues? But yeah, I.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: Nevertheless, I really enjoy those last pages.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: Because I think it's Sidious who, or Palpatine at that point,
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: who tells Vader, oh, now you know for sure you
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: are the master of evil. And it is kind of
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: like this. I love how... Darth Vader is kind of
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: just like fed up and done with it. He just
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: like tosses the holocron. He's like, here you go. We
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: went through all of that shit just for this. Here
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: you go. Have your little toy. But yeah, I still
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: really enjoy the ending of this book because it does
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: give you like a moment. Yeah. Yeah. And so now
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: Katie finally understands.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: And you're gonna have to edit that mess.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: Of looking looking through timelines and stuff yeah yeah it'll
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: it'll be fine it'll be fine.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 6: All right so clay where can they find you of
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 6: course you can always find me at fanboy clay on
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 6: instagram or threads that's where i'm kind of hanging out
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 6: most of the time nowadays.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: So check me out over there. Over at Ranger Alliance,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: we are going to have another new episode here on Monday,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: so be on the lookout for that. Things are finally
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: coming together with how all of these tokusatsu shows under
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: Toei are finally being connected. And me and Jake are
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: going to have a really, really fun conversation about it.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: So go ahead and listen to the next episode of
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: Ranger Alliance. I will say, I think this week, just
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: to highlight another show for you guys, Clayface comes out tomorrow.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: Yes!
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: So... go and check out dc alliance and their review
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: for it um if you want to get an early
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: review i believe uh geekverse will be having theirs tomorrow
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: uh late night so go check that out as well
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: uh but katie what about you.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: Y'all you can find me on most social media platforms
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: that's like so katie Remember the show is on Instagram,
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 3: blue sky and threads. It's at star Wars lines about the,
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 3: in the wars are very important.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: Don't forget it.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: You can also take that username and put it in
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: front of at gmail.com and shoot us an email. Remember guys,
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 3: the holiday season is approaching. So we will be up
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: and down. We will try to let you guys know
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 3: the schedule in advance, but next week, Remember, we're doing
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 3: Dark Legends by George Mann for our Halloween episode. So
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: with that, guys, I want to wish everyone a great
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 3: day or night, whatever time of day you are listening
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: or watching. And we will see y'all next time. May
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 3: the force be with you.