Latest / Popcorn and Pals / Ep 25 - Psycho (1960)

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Ep 25 - Psycho (1960) · Popcorn and Pals

• justin: welcome back to Popcorn and Pals, the podcast where we talk about all sorts of movies, good and bad, and we give you our completely unqualified takes on them. He's Zach, and I'm Justin, and today we're continuing our Halloween movie month with the nineteen sixty horror classic that'll make you nervous to take a shower. It's Psycho. Zachary, how we do it? Zach Wheeler: Yeah, I haven't showered in three, four days now. It's it's getting ripe justin: You know, Zach Wheeler: over here, you know. justin: it's pretty fun. So right now my daughter is obsessed with the Ghostbusters theme song. I think we talked about this on the last episode. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, yeah, last week. Yep. justin: And there's the famous or not sorry, not not Ghostbusters, I'm sorry, Rockwell, somebody's watching me. Right? Zach Wheeler: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the same mass o menos, right? justin: Right, yeah. Virtually the same song. But yeah. there's a line in there about not wanting to take showers, 'cause it reminds him of Psycho too much. That's how we all feel. Zach Wheeler: There you go. Yeah. No, it's it's been yeah, man, you know? I'm getting gross. It's just I can't help it, you know. So I'm too frightened. I'm justin: Ha ha ha. Zach Wheeler: like Norman's gonna get me. justin: Yeah. Norman is gonna get you Zach Wheeler: So up top, I have to make two corrections from our Ghostbusters episode. Two things justin: Ooh. Zach Wheeler: I've I just I messed up, man, you know? And I gotta I gotta make things right, okay? First, justin: Okay. What did you mess up? Zach Wheeler: I said like a few times I referenced Jim Belushi instead of John Belushi. and really that's justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: on the Belushi parents, okay? Because th those names are too close, right? That's on you guys, not on me. Alright? justin: Yeah. Sure. Zach Wheeler: Blame Mr. and Mrs. Belushi. justin: Fair. Zach Wheeler: and then I think I said that the like stand in song was Hue by Huey Lewis was I Want a New Truck, which there is a song called I Want a New Truck, but not Huey Lewis in the news. justin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: So it's I want a new drug. And I'm like, yeah. So I gotta make the corrections justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: just in case anyone was like, You're an idiot, Zach. Yep. Up front. justin: There you go. Well, good on you because I don't even realize when I make mistakes, nor do I call them out. So bravo. Zach Wheeler: I'm always trying to correct, you know, trying to improve myself, right? justin: Yeah. Good. I'm glad one of us is. Thank you. Zach Wheeler: Ha ha ha. How did you how'd you feel about this movie? Let's get into the movie right away. We don't need any small talk. Get out of here. justin: Yeah, fuck the kids. Who cares? how did I feel about the movie? I had never seen Psycho before. This was my very first time. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, me neither. Yeah. This is my first Alfred Hitchcock movie. justin: I think I've seen Birds, the Birds, what's it called? The Birds. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Bird yeah, the birds. That's a that's his movie after this one, I believe. justin: I I feel like I saw that. I I feel like I saw that in maybe high school or something, like. Yeah, taxidermy birds. Zach Wheeler: He's got a bird fetish with this movie and the next the next one. justin: No, yeah, I actually I I w I surprised myself. I really enjoyed this. and I I didn't I d not that I didn't I I went into it thinking like, I'm gonna hate this movie. I just I don't know. I had no Zach Wheeler: Well you kinda think okay, Halloween, the slasher f picks of the seventies, right? Like Nightmare on Elm Street or Friday the thirteenth or all of those. First justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: off, everyone. I'm like exhausted. I had like really long justin: Hmm. Zach Wheeler: day at work today. So I was telling Justin before I gun's call, I'm like, I could go rogue. I've been real angry at my kids all day, which is not good. So like they've been they've been sh I've been my justin: He's gonna take it out on the podcast. Zach Wheeler: my fuse is short. So I'm like Norman right now. I'm gonna snap at any moment, right? justin: So Zach Wheeler: Start dressing up like my mom. But anyways, so yeah, just in case I go completely rogue here. but no, I I I agree with you. Like I I think like I was thinking like, okay, it's this those like seventies slashers that I'm not like a huge fan of. justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: But I this one I felt was a lot smarter and more creative than those movies. And I I really enjoyed justin: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Zach Wheeler: it. For like a proto slasher, it was really good. I agree with you. justin: Yeah, I and and not to I don't know. I just this as I watch this movie, I know we talked about Halloween, the original Halloween, and not that this is a comparison of these two movies. That's apples to oranges. But I like I feel like when you Zach Wheeler: Right. justin: look at this genre, this movie stood out to me because like it's I don't know. I I enjoyed everything about it. I I really don't have a whole lot to nitpick on it. we'll get into everything later, but Zach Wheeler: Sure. justin: as opposed to when we watched Halloween and I had issues with so much of that movie. And I think it's just Zach Wheeler: That that movie owes th that movie owes a lot to this movie. even Doctor Loomis justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: in that movie is named after Sam Loomis in this movie. Like the yeah, it's like justin: Mm, mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: very clearly an inspiration in a lot of ways. justin: Yeah. And that movie takes place what I can't remember what Halloween is, like eighteen years after Psycho? I mean it's Yeah Zach Wheeler: Yeah, seventy eight, I think. Yeah, I think you're right. justin: yeah. So I mean clearly a a decent amount of time between those two, but like Psycho had so much going for it, from acting, writing, cinematography, like there's so much that was Zach Wheeler: Mm-hmm. The dialogue is on point in this movie. Yeah. justin: Yeah. Like it it's so well done and then, you know, I just I kept thinking about Halloween and like, this is just there these are like two films in different leagues. but yeah, I I really enjoyed it. I'm like I'm excited to talk through it 'cause it was really it was it surprised me at how much I I enjoyed it. Zach Wheeler: Had you ever seen other Alfred Hitchcock's movies? justin: Other than the birds. And even the birds, I don't really remember it, but I feel like I watched that in school at some point. But that's the only movie I've seen from his. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, I've heard obviously you hear so much about him. he's like an icon, the master of suspense, the whatever. And justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: I just had like I think because his movies are horror, they're relatively like high concept, you know, like justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: they kind it ki kind of reminds me, like he's very genre film guy. And so justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: I've never really gone I I've been much more popcorn flick with the older directors probably. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: And I I'm I have to say, like after this movie, I have some like curious notes about him, but after this movie I wanna watch a lot more Hitchcock movies. Like I'm I'm down justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: to go try try another one. He was real it was really, really good. Like justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: he he's known for being like very meticulous director, right? Like nothing is in a scene. nothing is like focused on. I think I r I wrote down like some of his screenwriting rules. Like he's got the the like he always has establishing shot and he slowly moves in And when he focuses it means it's important. Which I think justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: is interesting, right? 'Cause like a lot of directors will just do wide shot, close up, wide shot, close up for you know, it's like establish, close up, and they they cut back and forth. Like he's using the close up to make a point. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: he also said like I think one of his principles like he's what I really liked about is like he's very purposeful. There's not a lot like he wants to misdirect you in the interest of the narrative, but he doesn't want to mislead you or leave justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: you wondering what's happened. Like i i i this movie in particular, I think the end we'll talk about it's probably the weakest part of this movie where the psychiatrist explains everything. But justin: Mm, yeah. Zach Wheeler: but he doesn't want you to walk away from the theater being like Was Leonardo DiCaprio still in a dream? You know, like right justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: I I dog on Nolan so much. I'm not a huge Nolan fan. like I feel everyone really loves him, but he does, right? justin: But he li but he lives in your head rent free, doesn't he? Zach Wheeler: But it's like that movie is distracted by the fact that you're like, Well maybe he's in a dream or is he in a dream is is is this a dream, you know, whatever. Or his kids alive? I don't know, they're in a dream. It's like the movie gets so caught up in its own idea. And justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: what I liked about Hitchcock and like one of his rules was like, no. That just destr if you if you have to have a gimmick to sustain the audience and to like leave the theater to think about it, then like I didn't make a coherent story. justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: So I'm like, I really like that it's clear at the end. justin: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Zach Wheeler: Even if it does it doesn't have to be explained, but it has to be clear for the characters and what the story was, which I really liked. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, I can I completely agree with you. I am much more after seeing this, I'm much more motivated to check out more Hitchcock movies because yeah, this was just it was really good. I really enjoyed it. Mm. Zach Wheeler: Well he's a sh he's a show don't tell guy too. Right? And so it's like everything, there's hardly there's dialogue for sure. But justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: there's so much that's done with the way people's hands are and the way their faces express and like how he uses the camera to move into a place that provides feeling or uses the music to provide feeling, opposed justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: to being like Norman's like you know like when he asks for example, when he asks Miriam If she's gonna actually go into town or if she wants have dinner. And he's like, justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: It a lesser movie, he was You wanna go have dinner? She's No, I'll stay here. And he's like, You can see in his eyes, he's like, good, And justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: a lesser movie, she would have walked off and be like, perfect. I can do what I want. You know, he would have like talked to himself or something, right? justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Like there's not where he doesn't feel the need to do that, which is awesome. I love it. justin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Zach Wheeler: The other thing I had a note on here. This movie is nineteen sixty. I I I've wanted to come back to these earlier even though like the sixties isn't even that early in cinema history, but it's still justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: like, you know, a golden age of Hollywood kind of time, right? I've so I'm like been eager to come back to this time period to talk more about the Haze Code. justin: yeah, yeah. Zach Wheeler: Cause this movie like shits on the Haze Code, which is awesome. I justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: love it. But I feel like we've brought it up several times, and so I wanted to take a moment to like dig a little deeper into the Haze Code and like what it says and like how this movie somehow passed it to get made. So justin: Mm, yeah. Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: just to read you a little bit from the Haze Code, real quick. So this is the opening right here. The most in justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: picture producers recognize the high trust and confidence with. which has been placed by them by the people of the world and I know, right? We're pretty self granting grand self grandizing justin: wow. Zach Wheeler: and which has made the motion picture a universal form of entertainment. They recognize their responsibility to the public because of this trust and because entertainment and art are important influences in the life of a nation. So that's how it opens. Little like all right justin: Wow, yeah. The Zach Wheeler: Feel pretty good about yourself. Yeah. justin: delusions of grandeur, huh? Zach Wheeler: So I'll skip a little bit of the rest of the introduction, but I'll go to their first general principles. Alright? First one. No pictures shall be produced that will lower the moral standings of those who see it. I'm justin: Hm, check. Zach Wheeler: like, how about the people who make it, right? Anyways. justin: Ha ha ha Zach Wheeler: Hence the sympathy of the audience should never be thrown to the side of crime, wrongdoing, evil, or sin. That's the first principle. Nope. No, it's it's justin: Wow. Wha yeah. Yeah. What if I wanna go to see a movie and feel shitty about myself? y y you're not gonna let me do it. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: the responsibility. Who cares about you know the corruption, the affairs, the extra the drugs? Who cares about any of that that they're doing behind the scenes? As long as the picture justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: itself has blow high moral standards. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Number two, correct standards of life subject only to the requirements of drama and entertainment shall be presented, so the correct standards of life deemed by this code's authority. justin: Yeah, exactly. Zach Wheeler: Then I like this one. Number three, law. Natural or human shall not be ridiculed. Nor shall sympathy be created for its violation. So justin: What? Zach Wheeler: I guess the natural law, whatever that means, or human justin: Huh. Zach Wheeler: laws, I guess like our laws that we create shall not be inf violated in the film and shall have sympathy. justin: Okay. Zach Wheeler: Alright, so here's I I pulled out a couple because then after that they go through all of the this is what is gonna break the code, this is what shall be enforced, yeah. And there's a lot of like ambiguity in it, so justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: they leave it pretty much like at the discretion of the the the advisory board with gener with some like higher level guidelines. But let me see if s again, remember, s psycho past the standards, okay? justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: To get made at the time. So let's just so they have they break into subcategories. So the first category is murder. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: First offense. The technique of murder shall be presented in a way that will not inspire imitation, nor to brutal killings should not be presented in detail. Was there any brutal killings in this one? And no one Okay. justin: no, at least there definitely was not two, at least. Zach Wheeler: The next c I'm I'm like skipping a bunch of but the next category was sex. And it says justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: number one the the sanctity of the institution of marriage and the home shall be upheld. Pitchers shall not infer that lower forms of sexual relationship are accepted or common or a common thing. Lower forms of sexual relationship. justin: Jesus Christ. Zach Wheeler: Alright, let's go to co this is under costume is the section, quote unquote. justin: Ooh, okay. Zach Wheeler: But it's more about nudity than anything else. It's should be subcategory nudity. Says complete justin: Mm there. Zach Wheeler: nudity is never permitted. This includes the nudity in fact or in silhouette. And then undressing scenes should be avoided and never used saved where essential to the plot. Is there any nudity justin: Huh. Zach Wheeler: in this film? I don't think I saw anything or justin: No, but Mari Zach Wheeler: There's no definitely no scenes of bad undressing either. justin: yeah. I was pretty surprised to see Marion in a bra, like literally opening up the movie from us Yeah, yeah. Zach Wheeler: I know, right? The pointiest bra on the planet, but yes. And then the last category here is repellent subjects. And then the f they they have like a long list of subjects, but I thought there's only one that really it's like the following subjects should be treated with careful limits of good taste. Is how they describe it. And the one that stood out to me in in relation to psycho is brutality impossible gruesomeness shall be s handled with careful limits of good taste. So do you think I justin: Yeah, definitely not. Zach Wheeler: so you s you you can see after those rules how easy it was for Psycho to get past them. justin: Yeah. So what yeah, what did Hitchcock do? Did he like buy somebody off to push this movie through? Like how how did this get passed? Zach Wheeler: No. So his he was he was notorious for pushing the limits of the Hayes Code, for sure, in his filmmaking. And he would do red justin: Hmm. Yeah. Sure. Zach Wheeler: herrings in his movies. So he would, for example, like it it's kinda like building a house. So you would have to like do a foundation and then an inspector comes and inspects it. Then you do like the roughing and the framing, and then an inspector comes and inspects it. Then you do the final finish and then an inspector comes and inspects it, right? So it's like every stage script writing. inspection, right? justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: Final f cut or initial cut inspection. Final cut inspection kind of thing, right? So justin: Mm, mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: that you can, you don't want to make something and then just gets completely thrown out by the Haze code. So what he would do is he would do red herrings. He would throw things in like a script that he could use for negotiation. He's like, well fine, I'll remove that if you let me keep this. Like so justin: Ha ha. Zach Wheeler: he would put things in there that he knew were like too extreme. So that he could use them as a bargaining chip to get to get them out. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: And he what he did, so the first cut of the shower scene, he submitted it, obviously, and they were like, you know, I can see boobs and he's like, No no no no, look very closely. There's no boobs, you know. We're just like, No no no justin: Ha ha ha. Zach Wheeler: no no you g we're we're point out exactly where it is, right? So he's like using the technicality of the language. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: And so that he's like, they're like, no, go back, re-edit it, it's not gonna work. He smits justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: it again, did not make a single change. They're like, alright, that's better. justin: Ha ha ha. Zach Wheeler: So that was one way he did justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: it. The opening scene, right, with it's not an extramarital affair, but it's like a taboo relationship for the 60s, right? justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: And she's undressing in it, or is undress in it. But justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: so the way he gets around it is like he's like, Well, she's getting dressed. So you'd notice in the movie she starts undressed and is putting on clothes instead of taking them off. So he's like, No, no, she's getting dressed. She's justin: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, fair fair enough. Zach Wheeler: and then they were like They're like, no, th that's too much. Both of those scenes together is too much. Like you have to reshoot one. He's like, fine. Let me keep the beginning and like I'll redo the shower scene. And then they were like, No, you you can't redo it. He's like, Okay. Then he's like, Fine. You guys can come to set. Let me redo the beginning scene. If I can keep the shower scene as it is, I'll redo the beginning. And you guys come to set so that way I can do it with you there and then I won't have to reshoot it again. And they never showed justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: up, so he resubmitted it and they're just like, Okay, sounds good. justin: Ha ha ha. It sounds like there this was almost I I mean, a perfect mixture of knowing how to get through loopholes, but Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: then also just sheer luck that this movie exists. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, I well I I I think I think he's it's just more like this authority was dumb. The rules justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: were dumb and arbitrary. And he really showed with this movie, and it's like this we watched Some Like It's Hot, which I have a point about that in a minute here. But like this movie, Some Like It's Hot, like they're pushing the boundaries of like nineteen late nineteen fifties, nineteen sixties culture, justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: and it's not offensive to the audience. And the audience is like you can still make this movie. You gotta be creative. He was creative, right? the shower scene is very creative in its way of portraying violence justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: and brutality without really showing violence and brutality. But it just it becomes irrelevant. And so I think by nineteen sixty five, they're just done with it, right? They're the it's justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: like the beginning of the end is this movie, some like it's hot. justin: Yeah, yeah. Zach Wheeler: apparently one of the most one of the taboo things in this, related to indecency and what do they call it? S repellent subjects. Apparently showing a toilet was like like that's a private place. So when she justin: What? Zach Wheeler: rips up the paper and th and throws it in the toilet justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: and flushes it, that's the first time there's debate over it. But it's the first time you see in film a toilet being flushed. And that was a Haze Code thing. And he was like justin: Wow, no way. Jesus. Do you imagine if like Haze Code was still in place today? The music or the movies that we would have? God. How is this a thing? I mean this is I know we could probably Zach Wheeler: It's just so dumb. It's the fifties, man. justin: we could probably have like ten episodes talking about the Haze Code, but this is it's just nuts Zach Wheeler: it'll come it'll come up again, I'm sure. justin: that like there was these like bylaws on how a movie could and could not be made. That's nuts. Zach Wheeler: So I think what started it is basically like coming out of the f in the forties. in the forties there was like this an actress died, I forget her name, I looked it up and I meant to write it down. But she died and she was like It's the forties, yes. It's hard to know what really happened, but there was allegations of sexual assault by a famous actor at the time, and justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: like the injuries she sustained during that sexual assault is what led to her death. justin: wow. Zach Wheeler: And so there was starting to become political pressure on the industry that was relatively unregulated through the twenties and thirties. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: And they were basically like, all right, we can pick our own rules and do it ahead of the government doing it. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: And so there was some element of survival. And there was also, pressure from outside groups, religious groups, things like that. But I think it was more of a survival element. I would argue most producers at the time who wrote it were n didn't really care about this wasn't a passion project for them. It was like we just gotta keep surviving, keep making films and this is what we think we have to do now to do that. justin: Absolutely. That's really funny 'cause I think when I think about all of the worst things I've ever experienced in my life, that nine times out of ten it comes from movies. like hyper violence, the the Zach Wheeler: Mm-hmm. justin: worst subject matter that you could possibly comprehend. It's all it's all from movies. Way to go, Haze Code, you you succeeded. Zach Wheeler: I know, right? So I told Some Like It's Hot. I wanted to look it up at the time. Remember in Some Like It's Hot, the the Catholic Church had their legion of decency and they would rate movies and they gave it the worst rating for being deplorable. So justin: Yes. Hmm. Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: that that's Some Like It's Hot. Quaint, cute, you know. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Slapstick comedy, Some Like It's Hot. Get to see. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: This movie about A a cross dressing murderer. A person with split personality disorder, they gave this one a B. So they gave it for it's morally objectionable, but not as bad as some like it's odd. justin: God. Yeah, murder Zach Wheeler: Ha ha ha. justin: murder, psychotic episodes. Wow. Mm. Zach Wheeler: It made me laugh. But anyways. I was like I had to point that out 'cause I was looking like, my god, that's crazy. Like justin: That's yeah. No, it's a really fun piece of like cinema history. 'Cause like I don't you just don't think about that stuff, but like yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Zach Wheeler: No, it's complete nonsense and f just shit, but you wanna get into the into the plot synopsis? Let's dig into this. justin: Yeah, let's hear w let's hear your patented plot breakdown. Zach Wheeler: Alright. An Arizona millionaire attempts to buy a house for his eighteen year old daughter with cash. But the real estate's broker, his secretary, runs off with the money. He sends a private investigator, the secretary's sister, and her illicit, broke, divorced lover to track her down and recover the cash. They soon discover that this secretary has been murdered, but fortunately, her car is later pulled from the swamp with the money still inside. Short, just seven hundred dollars. justin: Nice. I love how you wrote it from the millionaire is the victim. Well done. Zach Wheeler: I was like trying to think about this. I was like, you know what? This movie's like really like he's he's in the background doing things the whole time. You know. He's his own protagonist justin: Yeah. He Zach Wheeler: of his own story. justin: he is. He he is the big threat breathing down Marion's neck. Not Norman. What Norman. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. You c you cracked the code. It was always about the millionaire. It wasn't about Marion at all. Zach Wheeler: I mean but he is because he sends the people who end up catching Norman and end up exposing Norman. He sends them, right? You know, he hires the private investigator. Nope. justin: Well done. Well done. That might be your best one yet. I love that one. Zach Wheeler: pretty dumb, but yeah. Alright, so real quick, let's do podcast structure. We've already done our notes, so we'll probably get into our categories here pretty soon. but we'll do categories or superlatives, whatever you want to call it. And then finally we'll rate whether or not we think this is a classic. from a real plot synopsis, like Psycho's like what one of the most famous movies of all time. I feel one one thing we justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: can talk about comparing notes is This movie's impossible to actually watch for the first time, I feel like. there's justin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: no there was not a part of me, spoiler alert for a 60-year-old movie, there was not a part of me that didn't know that Norman was the killer. And so it's like, you can't that reveal that was probably so shocking in 1960 is justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: just because this movie's like probably the most famous horror movie of all time. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: and Hitchcock's biggest movie, like just an iconic movie with iconic imagery. Like th you know everything about it before you watch it. Like you can't avoid it. justin: Yeah. yeah, absolutely. Zach Wheeler: so I don't know obviously didn't color your opinion of liking the movie, but I would have really I I would have really liked to like have seen this movie like it's justin: without any yeah, without any prior knowledge about anything. Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: I I completely agree. 'Cause I like watching through it I was I think that's what blew me the way the most is the fact that this was made in nineteen sixty and it was it was touching on plot twists and stuff that are are like akin to what we see modern day. Zach Wheeler: Mm-hmm. justin: and like yeah, I just it's it felt it watching it for the first time in twenty twenty six, it felt like Th this movie has stood the test of time. It it was ahead of its time, Zach Wheeler: Mm-hmm. Yeah. justin: in terms of that aspect. but yeah, completely agree. Zach Wheeler: but anyways, from a real plot synopsis, the movie opens with Miriam, our protagonist, in bed with a her, I guess, lover, right? And in today's justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: context, like who gives a shit? But in justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: the sixties, they were not married. He was divorced, and he was like in financial trouble, both carrying on his like I like how all the all of his financial problems were like not of his own making, though, right? They're no, we gotta justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: keep the He's gotta have financial problems, but they can't make it his fault. So it's like I inherited my dad's debt. I got divorced and she wants alimony, right? It's like justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: nothing of his is his problem. He's a good guy. He just gotta get out of this debt, you know. justin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Zach Wheeler: But he but anyways, so he has money problems and so she wants to get married, she wants to move in more serious with him, but he wants to figure out his money problems first. And when she goes to work later that day, the millionaire that I referenced in the plot in the plot synopsis comes in with forty thousand dollars to buy a home for his daughter. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: And sh she's supposed to drop that money off the bank. She decides to steal it, I guess in some attempt to help her justin: To help to help her yeah. Baby daddy, boyfriend, Zach Wheeler: Her boyfriend. Yeah. Yeah. justin: I don't even know, yeah. Zach Wheeler: Right, and so the whole movie is basically the first half of the movie is her like kind of escaping and trying to get to him, I guess, is where she's going. She gets caught in a storm. and ends up at the Bates Motel, which is where our second protagonist is. Or I guess antagonist antagonist a you know. justin: Mm. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Norman Bates, who is the owner of the hotel, but he lives with his mother at the hotel. And then Plot Twist at the hotel, the mother is jealous, murders Miriam. Norman covers it up, and then the second half of the movie is basically the investigation of the murder. He n Norman's mother murders the PI who's investigating them. Miriam's sister and her boyfriend go to the hotel and they discover, second plot twist, that Norman is his mother and that his mother's been dead the whole time. And so justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: they arrest him, they stop him, and then there is about a ten minute scene where a psychiatrist goes through some bullshit at the end of the movie. justin: It gives just a massive exposition dump. For no or just to make sure that you did not misunderstand. Zach Wheeler: Yeah. No, because that way there is no ambiguity at the end of the film. The psychiatrist justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: you know, explains everything. justin: Mm. Yeah, yeah. Zach Wheeler: And that's psycho. Double double plot to us. justin: Yeah. Well done. Well said. Zach Wheeler: to get into our categories, we're gonna do best scene, best character, worst character, age the best, age the worst, what are they talking about? WTF are they talking about? And then we'll pitch a sequel. There's a lot of sequels surprisingly for this movie. I had no idea. One of my research. and then or you know, we'll talk about like what happened the next day kind of thing. and then we'll get into some hot takes and nitpicks. Before we do that, any other thing you want to talk about about the movie? justin: No, I want to talk about the best scene. Alright, Zach Wheeler: All right, let's get best scene. Let's go. justin: I'm gonna kick it off. I had I had two different scenes, but they really meld into one for me. So my first nomination is Marion and Norman's Conversation During Dinner. Firstly, I loved it because it's just so well acted. They're they are both phenomenal, but especially Norman. Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: I feel like a lot of these older movies can have overly dramatic or grand acting. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, they're coming from the theater, they're coming from the silent era at this time, right? So they're they bring those habits. They don't and justin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Zach Wheeler: and to me, Anthony Perkins is acting twenty years more advanced than everybody else. justin: yeah. I like it was extremely grounded. It it felt like watching just a conversation between two real people. Yeah. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: No, s n fucking incredible. Yeah, it's it's my number one scene. Spoiler alert. justin: But I mean also like the subject matter of the scene I think is fantastic. Like it Zach Wheeler: Mm-hmm. justin: starts off harmless enough. I it's slightly creepy, Norman's talking about his taxidermy. but we you know, Zach Wheeler: I I justin: it's just like weird. She even calls it, she's like, that's a weird hobby. but like we start to see like glimpses of Norman's mask falling off because when you first meet Norman, he's he's almost like charming, right? Like he's he's goofy Zach Wheeler: No, he's very charm. That was one thing that surprised me about this movie. I said if there was a surprise, I was like, Norman is extremely likable when you first meet him. He seems kinda shy, sweet, handsome, justin: Yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm Zach Wheeler: you know? justin: hmm. Yeah. but like we start to see that mask kinda falling off of him, especially as the conversation turns towards his mother and he starts getting defensive and all the things, but Zach Wheeler: I almost wonder in the scene, watching it knowing the twist, if justin: Hmm. Zach Wheeler: in the when Anthony Perkins is acting it, he's thinking he's flipping between Norman and his mother. Like when he she brings justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: up the institution, i you know, is it Ant is it Norman that's saying that or is it his mother that's saying that to her, you know, kind of thing? justin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. but just this whole that whole conversation and like you cap it off with like you see Norman like spying on her through the peephole and stuff and you're like, Zach Wheeler: Yeah, yeah. justin: so he is kinda creepy. But then that scene and then his conver Norman's conversation later in the movie with Arbagast, because again, it's just dialogue between these two characters. There's nothing like crazy going on. It's just two people talking, but like The first scene we see Norman being charming and then we kinda get glimpses of he might be a little bit odd or off, but then when we see him talking with Arbigast, like He really starts to slip up more and more. He gets super nervous. It almost feels like a kid who like got caught in a lie and doesn't Zach Wheeler: Mm-hmm. justin: know how to get out of it. And at a certain point he's just like, I don't want to talk to you anymore. And then Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: like he's done with the conversation. But just both of those, those are had I put them up in like kind of the same scene because it's just Norman having conversations with different people. but I love I love both of those, because I feel like Norman, he's such a fascinating character and he's so, so well acted. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, he's great, isn't it? No, I I completely agree with you. I think and the cinematography in both of those scenes, right? We talked about how he's moving in in the cam it's like it's not just like still shot, still shot back, back, back, back, over shoulder, right? It's like in the room, close up, slowly zooming into a character The s the one that I loved in the Arbagas if you I'm like I'm gonna butcher his name, but when he's checking the book, the justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: the logs and Norman like leans over him and he's at like a really weird angle and he's chewing the candy and his the way the shadow justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: is on the n it's very uncomfortable. And you can justin: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. Zach Wheeler: tell, like, there's moments of him too you talk about like the childlike element of Norman. There's like moments of him where you he thinks he's acting sus as shit. So is Miriam. That's like my one critique of the writing is like everyone's just sus as shit and what they do. But and then like the PI like leaves and is like I got him. He's not coming back You're like, no you didn't justin: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Zach Wheeler: I wrote down in the the dinner scene with Miriam at the motel, I wrote down a boy's best friend is his mother. Red flag number one. Taxidermy, red flag number two. Two dads that both have suspicious deaths, red flag number three. Calling his mom mother. Red flag number four. I was like, Marion, red flag's everywhere, run. justin: Hmm. Yes. Yeah, definitely. Check, check, check, check, check. Zach Wheeler: Okay. justin: but yeah, they I don't know, just those scenes, they were so good. Like I was so invested in those scenes. both I mean the whole movie, but especially those. They they're just they're phenomenal. Zach Wheeler: Yeah. they had and one of my favorite grossest piece of dialogue is in that scene after she talks about well maybe your mother needs to be in some place and he's like, Some place, you mean an institution? Ball you gets all starts getting mad. He says justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: like he's like people are just clucking their thick tongues. I'm like, Ugh, I don't like that justin: ugly a nice mental image there. Ugh. Zach Wheeler: And then yeah, and then when I s when he pulled the frame off and there's the hole in the wall and I was like, hole in the wall like no, that's not good justin: Yeah, that when I I feel like when he looked through that peephole, there was something that I don't know registered with me. I I just immediately was like, I bet this in nineteen sixty was horrifying for people Zach Wheeler: Mm-hmm. justin: to see that. And I thought about like My grandparents absolutely could have saw this in the movie theaters. They probably didn't, but like I'm sure that would have terrified them to think that there are people out there that would do stuff like that. We are so normalized to it, 'cause we we Zach Wheeler: Yeah, we've been true c true I was listening to a podcast. I I I talk about this p I I say podcast all the time. I wanna give out two shout outs we've talked about rewatchable, totally justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: jacked the structure of this sh show from them. but they didn't have an episode on this 'cause they do like more modern movies, like in the last fift forty years, the eighties and justin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: nineties and stuff. I also do this one called What Went Wrong. So it's like another podcast about movies. justin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: and it's like it's kind of like an ironic name because they're usually covering movies that went right, but like this one. justin: Mm. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: so I got my facts from a lot from their stuff a lot. It's more of a fact-driven podcast. justin: That's cool. Zach Wheeler: yeah, but it's a great one. So anyways, justin: Yep. Zach Wheeler: they were saying the first movie that really ushers in the true crime sensation, or not justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: movie, book I should say, is Truman Capote's In Cold Blood, which justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: comes out after this movie. And I justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: th I think back then, to your point, like in the sixties, It like the media was like, Well, people don't wanna hear about this. It's disgusting. It's gross. nobody wants justin: Yeah. Hmm. Zach Wheeler: to hear about this. So they didn't like sensationalize it and now w like It it's o like what these things that happen to people and what people do is horrible. But it's almost justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: like the media and a lot of things like r like people who consume it don't. But I do feel like the media almost like revels in it. Right? They it's like we'd need this to happen. It boosts our ratings stuff. And it's like I don't I always find it gross. I I don't justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: that's not a critique on anyone who loves listening to true crime, 'cause I do get the fascination of the story. I you're a big true crime fan. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: But I feel like we almost like we make it too much entertainment these days, but justin: Yeah, yeah, we do. We're well, I think we're just so attuned to it. We're numb. Yeah. To where it's Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, we're desensitized and it's like the whole world is shit anyways, might as well learn about all the shit that's gonna give us anxiety. justin: Mass murder? That's just another Tuesday. What happened this time? Let's let's hear the deets. I bet it's just like the one that happened three years ago. but back then, yeah, they probably had never heard of somebody drilling a hole in the wall to spy on you in the bathroom in a hotel. I mean That would be terrifying. I would be terrified if I'd never heard of that before or seen it. Zach Wheeler: Yeah. Yeah. This movie is based on a real serial or inspired by a real serial killer, Ed Gain. Who's also yeah, justin: yeah, yeah, yeah. Zach Wheeler: who's also the inspiration for Silence of the Lamb, right? Hannibal Lecter. Same, same inspiration. But what was in good. justin: Yeah. It's funny, yeah, like well no, 'cause you Ed Gain, like I'm familiar with Ed Gain 'cause I feel like he was one of the OG serial killers. He was Zach Wheeler: Definitely like more sensationalized OG, yeah, like you know. justin: But it like an at at an earlier point in time, I feel like so many of the serial killers that were made famous, I feel like they yeah, seventies Zach Wheeler: Yeah, seventies. Yeah, eighties. justin: and the eighties and you know, back in that time period, but Ed Gain was like a little bit before them. And yeah, it's interesting to see like how much he inspired, like way earlier than the other guys. Zach Wheeler: Mm-hmm. Well, and it's interesting, the so the writer of this movie is make sure I get the name right, Joseph Stefano. And so w look one thing that's interesting about getting this movie made, it's a relatively low budget movie for Hitchcock. And in fact the movie before this one was North by Northwest. And it was at that point a four million dollar movie, his like most expensive movie he ever made. And justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: when he pitched this movie to Paramount, they were like, No, we're not the weird horror movie? No, gr get out of here. And so justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: he financed it himself, so it's a lot lower budget. eight hundred thousand dollars was still a lot of money back in those days, maybe a million and a half, two million dollar movie today, but a low budget horror movie. justin: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: and so w one thing that Alfred Hitchcock had was he had his T V show, Alfred Hitchcock Presents and he to make it low budget, he used his like his T V pro producing team to make this movie opposed to like his much more expensive movie. That's why it's not in color. It's in black and white because it's cheaper. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: and he had one of his guys from that show who won an Emmy for that show write a first draft of this and it was apparently not very good. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: And then so he brought in Joseph Stefano, who was recommended to him by some one of his producers. And Stefano had no idea about Edgane. He had no idea about like that the original script had been drafted. He didn't see the original script. So everything that he did when he penned his script was basically just the book and critiquing and changing it to basically what he thought was a better version of the book. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: And that this is based on. And so I think it's interesting that like Ed Gain inspired both like Norman Bates justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: and you know Silence of the Lamb, Hannibal Lecter, and they're really very different characters. Norman's charming and a split personality and all, you know, like he's like he the in like they took the piece of Ed Gaines that was well, no one suspected him. It's little Ed Gaines is weird, sure, but like, you know. He's just justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: in the you know, he's just a hermit. Whatever, he's harmless. Like that's the piece they took from this. And then the other piece justin: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: of Ed Gaines was just like making human skin lampshades and crap is what is what they gave to Hannibal Luck. Just like they took two separate elements because they were so disparate justin: Yeah. Some really fucked up shit. Zach Wheeler: in the way that they were written and everything. justin: Yeah, yeah. Zach Wheeler: So anyways, interesting. justin: Hm. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: but I agree with you a hundred percent. I I think we should talk about like I the the shower murder scene is iconic. Yeah, yeah. justin: yeah, for sure. Hmm. Zach Wheeler: seventy eight cuts, which was novel at the time in forty five seconds. justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: Like the average I think I saw the average like scene between cut or moment between cut was like eighteen frames, which is just insane for that time period. justin: Hmm. Zach Wheeler: And that was Hyper where we had to cut it with scissors like tape it back together basically, Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So really, justin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. manual yeah. Manual surgery over there. Zach Wheeler: really took him a week to shoot that scene. and we've talked about how it got past the haze code and all that stuff. But I think, yeah, a good scene. I think the s I I really liked the police officer scene with Miriam and justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: like how she's like You can see she's getting more paranoid with this cop. And it's just justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: like this huge red herring where it's like it's creating all this tension that o ultimately is meaningless to what happens in the film. But I thought it justin: Yeah. Yeah yeah. Zach Wheeler: was really good tension building. around kind of the red herring of the money and everything about when this movie just turns into like, he's just a psycho murderer guy, you know. but I agree justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: with you. I think by far the best scene in the movie is the dinner scene with Miriam. Like it's so well acted. And just unsettling. justin: Yeah. It really is. Zach Wheeler: It sells Norman as as kinda charming. And if you didn't know the twist, com you're like, well, he's a little weird. But he's got a weird mom, He's like justin: yeah. Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: he's sympathetic almost, He's yeah. justin: Yeah, you feel sorry for him. Hmm. Zach Wheeler: And so even when he does when Miriam does get murdered and he's covering it up, he you're like, Well, he's just been brainwashed by his crazy mom and you've no idea. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: back in nineteen sixty what was really happening, so justin: Yeah, yeah. Zach Wheeler: Any other scenes you want to mention? justin: I mean there are so many, but those are the w the that's the one that stood out to me the most. Zach Wheeler: Yeah. I we'll we'll get into a little bit of those scenes I think when we talk about characters and stuff. So let's justin: Mm, mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: talk about best character. justin: Yeah, what you got? Who'd you think? Zach Wheeler: We'll save Norman, but I think Anthony Per Anthony Perkins is incredible. Let's talk about justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: let's talk about Miriam. How do you feel justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: about Miriam? Pl played Played by what's her name? my god, Janet Lee. Nominated for Academy justin: I I think Zach Wheeler: Award. We didn't talk about Academy Awards, nominated for Academy Award for this movie. Mm-hmm for supporting actress, yeah. justin: She was? Wow. I didn't know that. I didn't do a lot of like back-end research into the Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Nah, you're good. I I I got the facts, don't worry, I'm bringing This movie's nominated for four Oscars. Director, Janet Lee for supporting actress and then like technical awards for technical justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: ones for cinematography and for art design. justin: I Marion was fine. I I don't have any issues with her. I mean but I Norman stole the show from me. Like I think Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: when you when you watch Psycho you watch it for for Norman. He is like the driving force behind it. But I mean I don't know. I didn't have any issues with Marion. I mean but she also didn't like bowl me over with Whoa, she was amazing, she deserves an Academy Award for that. Zach Wheeler: I think she's a better I think the three actors that stood out to me as like nor I mean, I Anthony Perkins is the best one in this movie by far. He's like justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: just incredible at what he's selling and what he's doing in the natural way it feels. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Janet Lee, I think, was probably her and Sam Loomis, the John Gavin, the P. I, justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: I think we're both like they're in a level above The other two, right? The boyfriend and her sister. So I think it's like Norman first, justin: Yeah. Sure. Zach Wheeler: Janet and Sam Loomis second, justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: and then the Lila Crane and No, not Sam Loomis, I'm sorry. Sam Loomis is the boyfriend. Ab Albergast, thank you, the P I. justin: Yeah. Arbogast. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Martin Ballsman is his name. justin: He he was really good. I like I got the same s I I got similar vibes from Anthony Perkins with him in that like he was not overly dramatic, he was not grand, he wasn't, you know, like some theater actor. Like he he was having like a conversation. it Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: felt believable. It felt like watching two Zach Wheeler: Mm. justin: people talk to each other. Zach Wheeler: Yeah. But I think we can agree. Norman is the best character. He's the he is what makes this movie. justin: He is like I I think it's just a testament to how he was written, but definitely how he was acted. he is the perfect wolf in sheep's clothing. when he Zach Wheeler: Yeah. Yeah. justin: first comes and greets Marion, I was like, my god, I love this. I want to go check in. Let me check into the Bates Motel. He's awesome. You know? Yeah, absolutely. He is Yeah. I he's Zach Wheeler: You c you can see why she went and had dinner with him. You're like in your mind you're like, no, don't have dinner with him. And you're like, Well I mean, you know, you could see why he would. justin: He's such a he's such a sweetie. of course I wanna go have sandwiches with Norman. why not? But that's why Zach Wheeler: It's fun. justin: he's th I th that's why he's so good. That's why 'cause you just don't see it coming. I mean Zach Wheeler: It's funny in the book he's written as a balding fat guy who and the writer was like, Why would why would Miriam wanna have you know, the the justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: that was like one of the things that the writer brought to it. He's like 'cause when so how he got hired, 'cause he was not very known. I think he was twenty seven or something. no. He was older. justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: He was in his thirties, but he had come to screenwriting late in his career. He was a musician first. justin: Yeah. Mm. Zach Wheeler: And so Hitchcock was like, I don't want this guy, but he was like cheap. And so he's Alright, I'll hear him out. And so justin: Yeah. Yep. Zach Wheeler: Hitchcock asked the writer, What do you think about the book? And again, I'm just stealing all my information from that what went wrong podcast. justin: Ha ha ha. Zach Wheeler: But great podcast, go check it out. But he was like I didn't like it. And they were like, What? He's like, Yeah, I justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: think, you know, I think if the characters were written this way. Which is the way that they're presented in the movie, I think you have a much more compelling reason why people would be disarmed from each other and why you the twists would be more justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: impactful this way. And he's like, okay, you're actually really saying some really interesting things and I like where you're going. So justin: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Zach Wheeler: But Norman was one of those characters. He's like completely he's probably the most changed from the book. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: without really changing the plot too much. They beefed up Marion's character too. Sh justin: Hm. Zach Wheeler: but anyways. Alright, you wanna get to worse character? justin: Yes, because spoiler alert. Marion is my worst character. Hold Zach Wheeler: Not really. justin: on, hold on. Let me let me let me present my case here. Not from not from an acting standpoint, purely Zach Wheeler: Okay. justin: from a character standpoint. she is a loose canon, to put it simply. So I mean like she has the secret relationship with Sam, but she tells them like this is the last time that they're gonna have a secretive fling, which I like I don't know. I know it's the sixties, but the whole thing is just goofy that it's like, we can't be secreted. together blah blah blah. Zach Wheeler: We're we're not married. justin: Yeah, but Zach Wheeler: You're divorced. justin: but like she turns around later it's like let's go get married right now or I don't know if she does right now, but like let's get married and he builds his his case as to why he can't. But like her decision to steal the money and bounce is literally on the spot. She's worked there for ten years. She had no idea that forty thousand dollars in cash was gonna walk through the door that day. But she saw Zach Wheeler: Mm-hmm. justin: it and she said, Fuck it, I'm out. I'm gonna run. I'm gonna take this money. And there's not I have this under nitpicks, but like I'll go ahead and throw it out here. Like, what is the plan here? Because 40,000 40,000 in 1960 is worth roughly 455,000 today. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, right? So like Zach Wheeler: Yeah, yeah. I googled it too. I like, How much is that? a lot a lot of money, but not life changing money. Yeah. justin: Exactly. Not set for lifetime money. her and Sam probably cannot vanish off the face of the earth and live off of that. They're gonna have to continue working somehow. But like I just like how what what normal person is gonna say like, ooh, forty in cash? Yeah, I'm out. I'm gonna steal this and just go run and like hopefully they'll never catch me. But I don't know. I just like she's she's just a loose canon. Exactly. Like I don't Zach Wheeler: No, impul imp impulsive for sure. Honestly, you're like Sam, you dodged a bullet, bro. justin: Yeah. that I don't know. I know it's a movie, and a book too. I don't know if she did this in the book, but that's a pretty that is a pretty big decision to make on the spot. So that she's my pick for worst character. 'Cause holy shit, Marion. Hmm. Zach Wheeler: Mm. justin: buys a car without even like looking at it? She was let's take this one. And like here's Zach Wheeler: Yeah, yeah. justin: here's seven hundred dollars in cash. Just get me out of here right now. Zach Wheeler: Yeah? No? She's loose loose canning. Too much there'd be t way too much paperwork these days for that, but justin: Hm. She's my boat. Who's your vote? yeah, yeah, yeah. I have that at a separate point, we'll talk about it. Zach Wheeler: And then what about like the highway patrolman, you know? I'm like, come on, you know, He's justin: Yeah, he's creepy. I don't know why, Zach Wheeler: fine. justin: I don't I know that whole scene that that whole series of scenes exists just to show how paranoid Marianne is, but it is weird that he just found her on the side of the road and then follows her all through town. Like what why? Why are you being creepy, dude? Zach Wheeler: Well, she is being suspicious of shit. So he's probably thinking justin: Yeah. Well but. Zach Wheeler: that she killed her husband or something, you know? Kind of thing. justin: Very real. Very real possibility. Who did you have for worst character? Zach Wheeler: Honestly, There's not really a weak link of this film. I think the weakest link is when Norman, justin: Mm-mm. Zach Wheeler: after Miriam dies and he's like, Mother, blood, blood. I was like, so the ADR of that scene was probably my least favorite character. But and then justin: Mm, yeah. Zach Wheeler: I think but I mean, like, I think and probably maybe the psychiatrist at the end of the movie. I'm like justin: Yeah. Yep. Zach Wheeler: It's just tacked on there and you're like, I get it. Okay, we get we got it. but again, maybe in nineteen sixties to your point, like where this is completely novel to people, some explanation justin: Mm mm. Zach Wheeler: was needed about justin: I thought it was interesting how he had to explain like what a transvestite was. And like that's very I don't know, I I don't want to say that's common knowledge today, but we're pretty familiar with that. But I'm sure back then Zach Wheeler: Yeah, and I'm not even sure if you would even describe that as a transvestite today, right? He's more of split personality, yeah. justin: Well, he had to correct them. 'Ca somebody was somebody called him a transvestite and the doctor like, No, no, no, he's not that. That's w here is what that is. He was Zach Wheeler: Mm-hmm. justin: this. Like it was almost like education, I guess, to like Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: help us understand what exactly was up with Norman and it was more mental than just like, he liked to wear women's clothing and you know, whatever. but it was. It was I don't know, it felt like education for the viewers at the time. Zach Wheeler: It definitely kinda like pumps the break on the end of the movie, right? But yeah, I don't know. You get to live with the characters a justin: Yeah. Yes it does. Zach Wheeler: little longer. It's not t it's not terrible. I I didn't mind it, but it is n it's un completely unnecessary today. But justin: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: all right. Let's move on. Let's get into our next category. Aged the Best. justin: Mm-hmm. She kick off. Zach Wheeler: Alright, I'll kick it off here. First thing I have is the music. justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: I think the score. is great in this movie and it's iconic and justin: Yeah. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: you know it it didn't feel fresh watching it because it's so iconic, but I think like it justin: The Zach Wheeler: really sells the suspense of the movie. I also had, along with the score, like the opening of the movie with like the lines and the names and everything, it reminded justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: me a lot of 'cause it's got this kind of like a creepier version of like, do you remember the movie Catch Me If You Can? with Leonardo DiCaprio and the opening scene of that it's like very justin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: cartoony and like kind of manic and got this like very upbeat energy. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: it reminded me a lot of that. I'm like, I like I miss like a good opening cred like good opening credits, like engaging opening credits. justin: Mm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely agree. I I music, definitely agree. we've talked about the acting. I think the cinematography you called out. I think there's so many scenes that are really cool. I add down simply like the late fifties time period slash nineteen sixty when this was shot. So just that whole time period. Marion's coworker casually drops that she has and takes tranquilizers and is and is giddy when she said that her husband doesn't like when she takes them. Zach Wheeler: I had that age the worst trigger. justin: Tom is buying his daughter a forty thousand dollar house as a wedding present, forty K. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: That's also an age of the wars for me, but justin: Marion trades in her old car and buys a new one in like ten minutes tops. yeah, just like so many of these things that are so distant from what we know today. Yeah, it really, it Zach Wheeler: Mm. They're fun it's fun to go back and like it's it's almost like time traveling watching it, right? Yeah. justin: really is. it was just funny. but I just I had like I mean it it goes to say, like, this movie inspired so much that came after it, but seeing flashes of future horror and thriller movie staples like the plot twist. There was a jump scare at one point. Marion's sister sees her reflection in a mirror behind her and that's like I was like, holy shit, that was a that was their attempt at a jump scare. the slasher murders. Like all horror movie roads lead back to Psycho. And it was really cool to see like those early glimpses back then. There's almost it was like Easter eggs, I like, Zach Wheeler: Yeah, yeah. justin: that's that, that's that, that's that. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, that is very fun. I also like the n speaking of what comes later, none of the murders are dragged out. They're gruesome and they're brutal, but they're quick. Marion's justin: Mm mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: murder is over in forty five seconds. The and Loomis's justin: Yeah yeah. Zach Wheeler: murder or not Loomis, I keep calling Lum Arbagas' justin: Harbigast. Zach Wheeler: murder is even quicker, right? Like I think like they don't drag any of it out. justin: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: Just for the sake of brutality or for the sake probably Hayesco's limitations, but I or I'm like I like that element. Motels as justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: a movie location, they're just great. Like they're just anything can happen in a motel. You know? It's like there's no justin: Yeah, yeah. Zach Wheeler: rules, there's nothing safe. I'm like, it's back in the zeitgeist a little dated now, but like Shits Creek, we're back with motels again, right? Like it's they're not going anywhere. They're a great location for a movie. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: I also had the Bates House, the house that's on site, like the the Victorian Manor. Like this is a cool house. Yeah. justin: Hmm. It's iconic. It's funny, like did you watch it on Netflix? Zach Wheeler: Mm-hmm. justin: Yeah, yeah. Like the Netflix when you like pull it up, that is like the image that they have for Zach Wheeler: Mm. justin: is the the old Victorian mansion, like up on the hill. It was it's really cool. Zach Wheeler: Yeah. That is is very cool. I thought it was just yeah. So a a lot of things, you know, I think to your point though, was the influences of this movie. It's just like the iconic moments, the pop culture, all that stuff ages really well. justin: Yeah, yeah, definitely agree. Zach Wheeler: Anything else? justin: no, I mean feel like we talked about so much o so much of the other stuff, but yeah, those were Yeah. Zach Wheeler: All right. Let's get to the fun stuff. Age the worst. justin: Yeah. Let's hear it. Zach Wheeler: in the in in the office that Marion works at, the like the real estate broker's office, he's doesn't have AC. I'm like, they're in Arizona. Ugh. Gross. justin: Hmm. Yeah. I didn't hear that part. He doesn't have AC in his office. Zach Wheeler: He has AC in his office, not in the front where the secretaries are. justin: my god, that's so mean. Zach Wheeler: I'm like they're in Phoenix. I'm like, just terrible. justin: Ha ha ha. Zach Wheeler: I had Marion and that the fact that Merriam and Sans Sam's affairs taboo. Yeah. justin: Yeah, it's so bizarre. I I so I actually I went back after I finished watching it, I had to go back and I rewatched the opening scene 'cause I was like, why why was this secretive? and I had to make sure that there wasn't something that I missed. But yeah, it's just I I guess to your point, like that was a taboo relationship back then in that time period. Zach Wheeler: Yeah. The the swamp where he disposes of the cars, they're in California and she's coming from Phoenix. I I just don't know where this s quicksand sa swamp is, you know? It's like kinda kinda random. I like, it's justin: Mm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Zach Wheeler: I don't know. I'm like, maybe there's you know some place that's very specific justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: that has that, but like didn't seem geographically relevant. But justin: Yeah, yeah. Zach Wheeler: I also had Black turtlenecks. I'm like, you know, n nothing good happens in a black turtleneck. Just go ask, you know, what's her name? justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: Elizabeth Holmes, right? Like she's in the zeitgeist right now. No one, no one justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: everyone that is sus who's in a black turtleneck. Ba you know, Norman Bates, Elizabeth Holmes, Steve yeah, you know. I don't think Steve Jobs was justin: Yeah. Steve Jobs. Zach Wheeler: not a very fun guy to work with. You know. Everyone is sus if they're in a black turtleneck. Yeah. justin: Barely not. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: That was my last one. That was my dumb one. Yeah. No, that don't age well, man. It's not it's not it's not a good look. It's not working anymore. justin: Black turtlenecks. I'm gonna get I could get you a black turtleneck for your birthday. Zach Wheeler: That's our next when we update our podcast you know image when we actually put our faces we'll be in like back to black and back turtlenecks. justin: Yeah. We'll do it. That could be our like our call-in card. The dudes in the black turtlenecks. Zach Wheeler: all right. Anything else for you for age the worst? justin: Sorry. Zach Wheeler: Let's get to WTF are they talking about? justin: Man, I can't w wait to hear what you got, Mr. Subtitles. Zach Wheeler: And there's actually not nothing too crazy. I don't know. At Christmas justin: Yeah. I didn't think it was overly egregious for nineteen sixty. That was pretty s pretty blown away. Zach Wheeler: time, we'll get to white Christmas. It's chock full of stuff I don't understand what Bing Cosby ever says. But but this wasn't too bad. I justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: felt like Sam Loomis's character had the most. There's like justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: He's sh she's talking about how she hasn't been married, and she's like, I haven't been married yet, and he says when you do get married you'll swing. that's like you all right, Sounds very old timey. justin: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Norman says when they go back to the parlor room where he f for their dinner. he justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: says eating in the office is too officious. I don't know if that's I don't know what that means. Is it justin: Mm. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: just say is he just making a word up about it's too office y his office sitting in the office? I don't know. justin: Yeah Yeah, it probably was. Mm. Zach Wheeler: And then this wasn't so much a thing they said. But one one like I we talked about every detail in a Hitchcock movie is like intentional. Like for example, in that justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: scene at the dinner, you'll see that there's pictures on the walls all over the place. All those pictures have meanings apparently. I don't know how much justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: people read into them. I don't know how really important it is to sell the movie to people, but for some reason, maybe it's just subconsciously it adds to the suspense. But an example justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: in that is all the picture frames behind Norman have sharp edges. And all the pitch cause he's like more dangerous. All the pictures justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: behind Miriam are rounded because she's soft, justin: Hmm. Zach Wheeler: like it's like little details like that. So like justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: everything has intentionality. If the camera lingers on it, it's like you're meant to be like, This is important, take note. There's one thing when Miriam's sister Lila Lila justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: when she goes to Norma's room I guess, like his mother's room, they linger justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: on some bronze hands that are like like a statue. I have no idea why. Like that must mean something justin: Yeah. I Yeah, I wondered about that too. Zach Wheeler: back in the sixties that I don't know that carries forward justin: Huh. Zach Wheeler: to today. justin: Yeah. I now that you bring that up, I wondered about that 'cause I was like, something is something's up with these hands, but what is Zach Wheeler: I'm like, is it like a a death mask of people's hands? Was that a thing you did back in the day? She's justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: like, Well maybe she is dead 'cause there's the hands, right? Or whatever but I justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: totally eludes me. Do not know why that was why that became like such a focus point during a scene. Yeah. justin: Yeah, that's a good one. It's a good call out. The only one that I had, when Sam and her sister are trying to snoop around, Sam pulls her sister aside and is like, Hey, if Norman sees us walking around, we're gonna tell him that we're just taking the air. I thought that was Zach Wheeler: Yeah, yeah. justin: fun. I d I don't know if I've ever heard that before, but yeah, just taking the air. Zach Wheeler: All right, let's talk sequels. Do you got a pitch for one or we c we can talk about the actual sequels that were made or prequels or cycleds or justin: Yeah, so yeah, to your what what you said earlier, I didn't know. I I I remember there's a show. I think they made it into a show, right? Bates Motel. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, Base Motel. It's with V what's her name from the conjuring movies, and then and it's the kid from The Autistic Doctor show. What's his justin: I don't know. Okay. I Zach Wheeler: The good doctor? It's that's who plays Norman. Yeah. justin: I I know they made a show, I've never watched it. But I guess Zach Wheeler: Yeah. Apparently it's not bad. justin: yeah, like after I finished the movie on Netflix, it immediately queued up, do you wanna watch Psycho Two? And I like, wow, I didn't I didn't know there was a direct sequel to this and I clicked it and you know it's Netflix so they like start playing a clip from you know before you even press play like when you're looking at the info. And it immediately shows Norman like walking out of a courtroom and some ladies like, You're gonna free this murderer and like I was like, okay, so there's the sequel. He is let out of a mental hospital, I guess. I don't know what the rest of the movie is like, but I I assume that like he was arrested, he murdered people, he's gonna be locked up for the rest of his life. I don't really know what the sequel would be, other than like he escapes somehow, but Zach Wheeler: No, so he's released and it's I th they apparently it's not bad. Not as good as the original, but apparently it's not bad. justin: Hmm. me neither. Zach Wheeler: The thing I wanted to talk about the most justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: was Gus Van Sant. He directed like a shot for shot remake in ninety eight of this movie. Did you see anything about that? justin: I didn't know that. Mm mm. Zach Wheeler: Cause we we've talked about Gus VanSant before, right? He directs Goodwill Hunting. justin: I didn't know that. Okay. Zach Wheeler: Yeah. not that you know, I I think Goodwill Hunting such a Matt Damon and Ben Affleck and Robin Williams project, right? We we kinda gloss justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: over the director 'cause I don't think the directing of that movie like really matters all that. I it matters, but it's like sidelined by a lot of the other stuff. Yeah. justin: Yeah yeah yeah. He's a he's a back seat, yeah, for sure. Zach Wheeler: But so he make they make a shot for shot remake of this movie in nineteen ninety eight. Not well received. justin: Yeah. I was gonna say I didn't even know it existed. Who plays Norman? Zach Wheeler: Okay, so I'm like I'm gonna tell you the cast and I'm gonna go from least important to most important and you tell me if this was a good choice or not. Cause it's all f you'll know most of the characters for sure. and I'm just gonna do like the top five characters, right? justin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: So abroga Argas, William H. Macy. Yeah. I think that works for sure. justin: Mm. wow, yeah. yeah, yeah. Zach Wheeler: Sam Loomis, the boyfriend. strider himself Vigo Morenson Yeah Vigo Yeah I mean that's only three years before bef before Zeragon So the sister Lila justin: Jesus, really? In ninety-eight? Wow. I yeah, I know. I've Zach Wheeler: Crane Julianne Moore Yeah I think that works too and then when I think you get justin: Yeah. Wow. Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: to the top billing is where this movie falls apart. justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: So the two mains Marion Crane is played by Anne Haish. Do you know who that is? She's the girl from like six days and seven nights with Harrison Ford. justin: it up. It sounds familiar. Zach Wheeler: Yeah. You'll definitely recognize her. But I'm like, I don't know. S and she's got this not even a pixie cut. It's like so short in it. It's not good. sh she just doesn't s have the same appeal to me that like remember you know what it is? Alright, our friend. I'll edit this out. Remember the movie Spread justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: that he loves so much? he thought was the best movie in the world where Aston Kutcher is the biggest justin: Yes. Zach Wheeler: douche and is like that's like how he won the model's life after the the biggest mooch on the planet. It's the girl in spread is Anne H. justin: Yes. God Yes, I'm looking at her now. I know NH God Zach Wheeler: So that and then Norman is played by Vince Vaughn. Like Norman is supposed to be charming. Like I don't think justin: Yeah, that's y y no. Red flag. Zach Wheeler: Vince Vaughn can pull off. Like he's charming in his own way, but justin: Mm-mm. Zach Wheeler: he doesn't have that like boyish, you know, approachable charm that justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: that Anthony Perkins brings to it. So I think like where the movie falls apart is in the top building for sure. justin: Yeah, I'm looking this is nuts. I didn't know this existed. No wonder it did shit. Zach Wheeler: Yeah. It's shot for shot almost. justin: That's so crazy. I had no idea. I would be curious, Zach Wheeler: Yeah. Well I justin: 'cause like alright, I'd never seen Psycho before, but like I grew up watching American Psycho with Christian Bale and like Zach Wheeler: Yeah, yeah, yeah. justin: I just always assumed that was I've I'd always heard of Psycho. I assume that was just like a funny little offshoot of the original Psycho. Has nothing to do with the original Psycho. Zach Wheeler: No, completely unrelated. Yeah. justin: But like if it was just like they're going off of like the naming, maybe people see it if they think it's related to Psycho or something. I don't know. But Yeah. Interesting that it has spawned like so many other projects after it. Zach Wheeler: The interesting thing about the psycho remake, the tagline for it on the poster might be the worst thing I've ever heard in my entire life. I'm like, what are we doing? It justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: is check in, relax, take a shower. justin: Wow. No who came up with that genius line. What? my god. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: I read that and I was like, that's not good. justin: Nice. I feel like I wanna watch this now just to see like how bad this really is, but Vince Vaughn is Norman Bates, like you've lost me. That's a no-go. No. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, I just don't think it works, right? I think like you put Jacob Alordi today, or you put justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: maybe even like Andrew Garfield in that role. justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: I think you're f getting closer to what Anthony Perkins is doing, right? You know? justin: Yeah. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: but Vince Vaughn million miles away. I like Vince Vaughn. He's great in like wedding crashers. I had a great time justin: Yeah. yeah, no, yeah. Zach Wheeler: in high school with wedding crashers, but justin: Yeah, no. He has strengths in other areas, but yeah, that is not one of them. That's really funny. I didn't know that. Zach Wheeler: All right. Let's talk about some nitpicks and hot takes. justin: I feel like I really we talked about Zach Wheeler: I have a big one. justin: a few of but I think the two that I had are just more goofy than anything. Like okay, after Marion checks in and it's raining, it's pouring raining, and Norman goes up to I think it's when he goes up to ask his mother if like she can have dinner But she hears Norman and his mother having a conversation in their house. And I think it wa it's just it was a design choice by Hitchcock so that she could like hear that like, his mother's kind of like not right. But the fact that she was able to hear them from the hotel inside the house while it was pouring raining, it's just goofy. Like it's Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: but I don't know. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, he he has the again, Hitchcock's intention, right? So he has the moment where he opens the window, right? That justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: Norman opens the window so you can hear, you know? Quote unquote he can hear. But justin: Mm mm. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: it i it is I think there's some nineteen sixties shit going on, right? Like the justin: Yeah, for sure. Zach Wheeler: some of the dialogue when it's delivered over narration or s not narration, but like over the s like anytime he's talking with his mother, it feels I guess maybe it is fake, but it justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: feels fake as shit, right? It didn't seem to believable conversations, justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: or the one when like when Ab Abergas is murdered and he's like falling down justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: the stairs and he looks like he's like on a s I don't know, like a poly a pulley or something. justin: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. He's like on a magic carpet. I thought he was like just Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: falling backwards. It was a funny shot, but yeah, just kinda I don't know. Not like movie breaking things, but just like it's a little goofy. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, that's just very sixties. Even the shower scene where she reaches her hand out and grabs the justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: cur it's like it's very like we gotta get like it's almost like they want the movie poster shot to freeze. And justin: Yeah. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: it's you know, there's more believable it would be much more believable today those those particular scenes. justin: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Zach Wheeler: My first nitpick. And it's a big one. When Marion gets in the shower, she justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: turns it on and it hits her right in the face immediately. What psycho is turning on their shower when they're in it? Right? That's the real psycho right there. Turning the shower on. No, you turn the shower on, you wait for it to heat up, you feel it with your hand, you adjust the temperature, then you get in. justin: Hmm. See? I'm telling you, Mary this movie is actually named after Marion. She's crazy. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: What is happening? She just starts taking a shower immediately. justin: I mean, are you surprised that she stole forty thousand dollars just on a whim and decided to just drop her life and But the shower is what got you. Zach Wheeler: I'm like, that's the real crazy person right there. I know this is the sixties, but every single door is unlocked. I'm like Norman, you have a dead mom in your house. justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: Lock your fucking door, bro. You know? Like you the murder the murder room. He has keys for the rooms. For room justin: Yeah. People were just trusting back then. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: one, the murder room, it's unlocked. They're just like the when when h her sister and the boyfriend get there. They're just freely going in and out. I'm like, Norman, that's the murder room, dude. Just leave it locked. justin: Hm. yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Had yeah, that's a great point. I didn't think about it, but you're right. Zach Wheeler: None of the doors are locked. The homes are unlocked. Basement justin: Mm-mm. Zach Wheeler: door's not unlocked. Where his mother is, you know. Like, lock some doors, bro. justin: Ha ha ha. Zach Wheeler: I I also no did you notice this? So many people get in. I think it's more of a staging thing for justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: how Hitchcock wants and maybe because Hitchcock is British and he just was always staging cars from the left side of frame, but so many people get in and out of the cars justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: across the passenger seat. There's like justin: Hm, yeah, yeah, yeah. Zach Wheeler: two a couple times where I'm like. People are getting justin: yeah. Zach Wheeler: in and coming across the passenger side, the car to get in and out of it. justin: I did notice Marion gets out when it's raining and Norman opens the door. She gets out on the passenger side. I remember thinking that was weird. But I guess cars had bench seats back then, so Zach Wheeler: Yeah, exactly. Our our Arbergast does the same thing when he goes to the Bates justin: Hmm. Zach Wheeler: Hotel. He gets out on the passenger side. And I'm like, Why are we doing that? Why is that that's so weird? I'm like just walk around the car and stage it, f frame it differently. I don't understand. Like justin: So weird. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's funny. Zach Wheeler: okay. Not a hunt not really a super big nitpick, justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: but Norman and Sam kind of look the same, right? No, they're very similar looking. I don't know, or like have one a little shorter than the other or whatever, but like when justin: Yeah. A little bit. Yeah. Yeah. They could have changed hairstyles or something, I don't know. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: they're face to face to each other, I mean they're different enough, but it's like justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: you know, like Vigo Mortensen and Vince Vaughn. Clear differences, you know, who's who? justin: Yeah, yeah. Zach Wheeler: F very different looking people, but just the sixties you're like, no, conventional look good looking guy. This is what it looks like. justin: Ha ha ha. Zach Wheeler: I think that's really all I had though. The the key, yeah, locking the door, but no, the the shower thing was my big one. I'm like, justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: who immediately when she turns the shower on and blasts her in the face, I'm like, What are you doing? justin: The only other one that I had, it's more of just like a I don't know, I'm probably looking too far into it, but if Marion and Sam's relationship was like really secret and private, I mean so private that like Sam even tempts her by saying, like, I'll come back next week and like we can be seen in public. how did her sister and the private investigator know about Sam. I mean they both showed up to Sam's, like workplace. I mean I could see her sister, Marianne probably Zach Wheeler: Yeah, maybe maybe just the fact there's just a new about it, I guess. I don't know. justin: But I don't know how Arbagast would have known 'cause he was hired by the millionaire guy and Zach Wheeler: Yeah, o other than that he's working with the sister. But even then, how do they even find the Bates Motel? What I I he was like, I've been to a lot of motels, but I'm like, Yeah, a lot of motels, man. I I don't know how close justin: Yeah. I mean I'm pretty Zach Wheeler: she is. I guess they say she's only twenty five miles from the town or something like that, but justin: But still, a yeah, I don't know. He would have had to have literally combed everywhere. Yeah, I mean it's all it's just convenient plot stuff, but yeah, that was my that was a little quirky one in my head. Like, how did y'all know about Sam if this was so private? But Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: there you go. Zach Wheeler: But yeah, so I don't know, those are all mine. All right. justin: Mm. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: You wanna take it home? Let's rate whether or not we think this movie is a classic. Yeah. justin: Absolutely. I think this is it's like the original horror thriller movie. and again, like I just there's so many good things about this movie, but it it's sixty six years old and it's still so good to this day. Like I think when you really think about like what is a classic and what is genre defining, it's It's this. It's movies like Psycho. I think it's really well done, acted, written, shot. it's it's just it's a great movie. I loved it. Zach Wheeler: No, same. I thought it was really, really good. You know, we we it's like the proto slasher and Halloween is the first slasher and this movie wipes the floor of Halloween. justin: Yeah, it does. It makes Halloween look like a fucking high school like just shot it after school one day. I mean like it's so well done. And then you you look at other movies that are supposed to be like, ooh, scary horror movie classics. Like, no, it's Zach Wheeler: No, this one. This one is actually i in we live close to a town, Franklin, in Tennessee, and there's like an old theater, downtown Franklin the Franklin Theater. They had a Halloween month this month. They actually played this movie and I like, we should go watch it for the podcast together, like justin: Yeah, yeah. Zach Wheeler: in the theatrical experience. Then I was like, justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Well, one, I'm like, have to find time. And then two, I'm like, I don't like a take notes on my phone in the theater while other people are trying to watch the movie. I was like, huh. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, but I agree. The 100% a classic. This movie like it left me with two things. That like in the 60s people were doing modern stuff, like and justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: that this this like just because it's old, right, you know, like doesn't mean that what they were inventing was not didn't feel modern, right? Or whatever. I don't justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: know, I don't know what I'm saying. I'm just saying like it's just I was really I think what I'm saying is I was surprised how modern this movie felt like we've talked. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: and made me want to see more Hitchcock movies. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: And plus, it was a full circle moment, right, for me. We watched some Like It's Hot with Tony Curtis. We get this movie with Janet Lee. Now we have both justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: the mom and the dad of Jamie Lee Curtis. We've covered both now. justin: There Zach Wheeler: Any other final thoughts? justin: No, no, that's all I had. Zach Wheeler: So that takes us, I guess, then to the end of the podcast. everyone, I thank you so much for listening and going on this journey with us. I can't believe it took me 30, almost 37 years to see an Alfred Hitchcock movie, but we did it. We're here. justin: Yes. Zach Wheeler: if you want to check us out, we have a YouTube channel. it's Popcorn and Pals Pod. We also have a Gmail. if you want to email us and give us any movie recommendations or let us know how annoying we are. and that is popcorn and pals all spelled out, all lowercase at gmail.com. And in the meantime, again, everyone, thank you so much for listening and as always keep popping that popcorn.