Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / Wednesday with Costume Designer, Colleen Atwood

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Wednesday with Costume Designer, Colleen Atwood · The Art of Costume Podcast

0:11
And that was in the script from the start.
0:14
So it was kind of like one of those things where you kept
0:17
saying how much blood is there going to be?
0:20
How many takes do you want to know what many multiples of 100
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of these costumes? Yeah, exactly.
0:43
Hello and welcome to the art of costume blogcast, I'm your host
0:46
Spencer Williams. And thank you so much for
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joining me for another bonus episode.
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All right costume nerds, this is not a drill today, we're being
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joined by an incredible costume designer.
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Someone whom I've looked up to My entire life.
1:01
And honestly, I probably would never have started our two
1:03
costume without this designers contributions to film television
1:08
Art Theater. I'm talking about none.
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Other than the legendary Colleen, Atwood.
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And today, we're going to be talking about a new TV series,
1:17
which you've all loved. And we've talked about on the
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podcast Wednesday, for which Colleen designer costumes for
1:23
alongside Co costume designer Mark Sutherland.
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I'm so excited. You've all heard me say that if
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I could Interview, one costume designer, in this life and be
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done. It would be calling at would.
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So, this is actually a dream come true for me.
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But before I really get to the before I freak out any further,
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let's get into the business of the show like we always do and I
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will be starting us off with a little summary of Wednesday,
1:49
when a deliciously Wicked prank, it's Wednesday.
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Expelled her parents ship, her off, to never more Academy.
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The boarding school, where they fell in love while tending
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Nevermore Academy. Wednesday Addams, attempt.
2:00
Master her merging psychic ability for a killing spree and
2:04
solve the mystery that embroiled her parents. 25 years ago going
2:08
behind a wardrobe, this show is created by Alfred go and Miles
2:12
Millar. Tim Burton is also the executive
2:14
producer and a director of several episodes costume
2:18
designers, Mark Sutherland and Colleen.
2:21
Atwood designed to costumes, you will know Mark from some of his
2:24
work such as Fantastic Beasts for which he co-designed
2:28
alongside Colleen. That would he was also an
2:31
assistant on alien, Covenant and Fast and Furious Colleen.
2:35
Atwood. On the other hand, he will know
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her from some for Oscar award-winning work such as
2:40
Chicago Memoirs of a Geisha Alice in Wonderland.
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Fantastic Beasts and some other incredible films such as Edward
2:48
Scissorhands. Sweeney Todd, Mars Attacks.
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One of my favorites and so many more without further Ado.
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We're going to take a little break and when we come back, we
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are going to be joined by the The Colleen, Atwood.
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I am so honored to welcome costume.
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Designer. Colleen Atwood.
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Hello Colleen. I'm so excited.
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Speak to you. Likewise welcome!
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Oh my gosh! What an honor I was so excited.
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Discuss your incredible work with you on.
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Wednesday. But before we dive into the
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show, some congratulations are in order.
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You were recently nominated alongside Mark Sutherland for a
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costume designers, Guild award for excellence in contemporary
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television. Obviously you're no stranger to
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Awards but I noticed this may be one of your first and
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nominations in the television category with it with the guild.
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What's that? Like?
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I think it's my only one with the guild.
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It might be. It might be, I don't recall
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having one before I haven't done, I did a Tony Bennett
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special years. All that I got us, right?
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I mean for but I don't think the guild was I don't think it was
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part of the guild thing, so it is kind of, you know, it's like
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another world for me to be part of and of course, the idea of,
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you know, the streamers which are really for me approach the
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same way as movie as opposed to, like, TV being a separate thing.
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It just my brain. I think in design, it's maybe a
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different style of working, but the idea of what you're Ang is
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the same, you're designing a world and characters and you
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know, and creating something in a kind of more fluid way, right?
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Especially this show, I mean, you, you essentially created a
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huge world with Nevermore and the high school and, you know,
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the town of Jericho. It's as much as anything, a
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movie. It's just eight hours.
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Long, a long movie. Well, let's dive into everyone's
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new favorite Netflix series, Wednesday.
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And that first episode, you had a daunting task of establishing
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not only Wednesday, but the wider Addams Family.
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I can't imagine you weren't a fan of The Addams Family before.
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So, what was this task? Like taking that on?
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Well, you know, I course looked at all the Adams Family
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variations before I started, and I actually grew up my
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grandfather. Randomly somehow knew Charles
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Adams, in a way, and I grew up with an atom's.
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Those atoms cartoon in our family bathroom.
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It's so weirdly it up there, but I think.
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But anyway, you know, I was always intrigued by the sort of
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style of it in the characters from, you know, from a long time
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ago. So, to me, it was paying homage
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to the creation of these people. That Charles Adams and many
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people after him had realized, but at Same time, putting them
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in a world that people would have connectivity for today
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especially you know, with Wednesday and the kids.
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So that was kind of my Approach. And luckily you know the script
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the way the script played out, we kind of established Wednesday
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as an outsider in a contemporary world of the school, in sort of
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her classic, white collared, little floral print dress and
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then as soon as She got to Nevermore the floodgates were
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opened for creativity, because they, I had to create the
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uniforms for the school, which I did was the first thing I did
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for the project because of the lead time on building them all.
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And the, the uniforms were we, I talked, to Tim, I showed him
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tons of fabric. That was a kind of the classic
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British sort of school, uniform material now to more the right
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color and then, you know, we were Talking and he said a
7:13
purple would be really great. And so I had I went to the mail
7:19
that made the fabric and I had a big enough order that they would
7:23
do it for me, but they, they did some samples.
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So I could pick with Tim the purple that we lied.
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Right? And then with Wednesday, I
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didn't want to get into the black and white stripe thing.
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That's so, you know, sort of a Tim signature, right?
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So I thought it would be interesting if If her because
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she was allergic to color of hers with gray and I ended up
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doing a thing with a screen and painting to get the stripes.
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So, they were sort of not a hard Stripe, Right?
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And black so that when you look at them they're kind of shaded
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and they come and go a little bit, which makes it a little bit
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softer than if it had been a hard gray and black stripe,
8:06
right? There's like a soft gradient to
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it when you look at closely. Yeah.
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When you really get in there, This the, the shows pretty dark.
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So I don't know if you really can see it on the month on the
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TV, but you can in Stills, and then I had, I was kind of
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obsessed with that. The caller shit I wanted to do a
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call or and I there was a picture of like a teddy boy,
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kind of look from the 60s in the UK.
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And I kind of love that super short round, spread collar that
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was kind of a round in the 60s and I thought that was a fun way
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to go with the Thai rather than the usual kind of sloppy.
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He pointed School callers that, you know, I purchased uniform
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Sherwood, would have given me, right?
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Add a little bit of a interesting style to it.
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It's yeah, kind of makes it modern but kind of classic and
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sort of different. And as we know, I'm very
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obsessed with collars and neck shapes and stuff on people,
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because so many things are shot quite tightly.
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So it's always nice when those things fit people and and it's
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More into me and Mark my co-designer and I worked
9:16
together a lot and he knows that about me so he's like really on
9:19
it with me too. So it's definite, you know, it
9:22
was a fun collaboration Now by Halima the collar of a Colour of
9:29
any shape, as long as it fits. Hey, I was so excited to see.
9:33
Catherine Zeta-Jones is Morticia Addams.
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I mean, she was just born for this role.
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It was incredible. I also mentioned design, a
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costume, for a mortician might be a little bit.
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Of a challenge since its, you know, usually pretty black when
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you look at it. So how do you go about that
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challenge? Well, I made it in two or three
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materials to start with. I made it because I was trying
9:54
to like figure out a way to kind of update it and make it more
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today. I tried it in leather, but it
10:00
was just too much. It just looked, you know, it was
10:04
great but it didn't feel like Morticia to me great because
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ultimately Morticia softer, she's more more flowing.
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And the leather was just kind of presentational, right?
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So I went off that and moved on to two or three, I did it in
10:23
silk and then I did it in this jersey that it actually ended up
10:26
being which is probably fairly close to what the original one
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was. But I played with the neckline a
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little bit just because it Katherine's body and her face
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and everything I didn't go for the V.
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I went for a different shape and the neckline and then I was
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playing around with this. Technique of bonding to fabrics
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and sort of twisting them with silver and black.
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And I had there was kind of on the table and I picked it up and
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I held it against address. And it it did those little side
10:54
vent things, which kind of gave it a little bit of a lift.
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And it also kind of defined The Hourglass shape of Morticia, a
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little bit with using a light thing, rather than just course a
11:07
tree. And, you know, all the gear.
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That's underneath that dress, it's gorgeous.
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I mean, It's very gentle and soft but also still statue a
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stick. She looked incredible.
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I love that costume. It's but I also loved was
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Wednesday at because, you know, she usually has a pretty
11:26
recognizable silhouette, but outside of her uniform, you gave
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her a little bit of a more contemporary feel, which was
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interesting. I really appreciate it.
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Thanks, it was fun to do because, you know, the only the
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only rule was Wednesday is that it had to be black and white.
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Quite right? So we played around with all
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different juxtapositions of pattern texture surface like
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shiny too flat to nits to, you know, defining white and black
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against each other big bigger exaggerated collars.
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And you also with the exaggerated collars, like, you
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know, we had a nod to Pilgrim World in her Pilgrim for mother
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before her and so that kind of gave me another creative idea.
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Out latitude to kind of play around.
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And I also wanted Wednesday to be a person that it was a kid.
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Like the other kids, you know, like she went out and she did
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things and, you know, she may have her approach may have been
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a little bit different in for a different purpose, but but she
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was, you know, she was like everybody else in a way but
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different, right? And then also at the same time
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to, I felt like she was relatable to the audience to and
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all the, you know, younger Generations are watching.
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Netflix and seeing this character that, you know, maybe
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we're not all Wednesday Addams, but you could see parts of
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yourself in her and her clothing and fashion.
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I think it's like a really, you know, it's a really exciting
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thing that that people, you know, have connected with the
13:00
character, on both a fashion level.
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But on a human level 2, that there's obviously a space there
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for four people that, you know, that feel that class Outsider
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sort of vibe but they still there still people and
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recognizable as such. Mmm, I just have to call out one
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of my favorite costumes. It's when she's riding a
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motorcycle, if Uncle Fester, the black and white helmets.
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I mean that's just chefs kiss, that's it, incredible costume,
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that was fun. I mean, I think the writers came
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up with the dalmatian helmet idea, it was in the script but
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but it just is so So silly it with the ears on it and
13:44
everything that you know, we played around with different
13:47
ears and and stuff and kind of went Snoopy with it a little
13:50
bit. Right.
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Nice spot. It's silly but like everyone
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accepted it like, of course, that's something that would wear
14:00
it. That tester would come up with
14:05
we have to talk about Enid. Now, she is basically the
14:08
opposite of Wednesday and every shape or form lots of Pink's.
14:11
Lots of Yellows. I mean, it's very beautiful and
14:14
cute and adorable. And also a little fuzzy to with
14:18
a little bit of the fur texture. So, how did you approach Enid?
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Well, Enid was, you know, from the loop Pine family, the the
14:27
wolf family. So she that was the idea with
14:32
the textures on her and I really wanted, you know, they occupied
14:38
a space next to each other and I really I wanted Enid to have a
14:44
Graphic since to her and the same in the same way that
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Wednesday did without being kind of just a puffy pink thing.
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I wanted her to have strengthened Graphics within the
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color range that she was, you know, that were her colors.
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So we, that was kind of our approach to find, always
15:04
whenever she got dressed pretty much something that had like in
15:08
the picture here. A plaid skirt or floral skirt.
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Stripes on the sweaters were strong Stripes.
15:15
They weren't weeks drive. So I used kind of geometric
15:18
Saint her clothes in the same way I did and Wednesday I just
15:21
did them in color. So great to look.
15:24
I mean she has such a strong sense of style and fashion to.
15:28
I would want to be her friend. Yeah.
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The two of them together. So great.
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It's kind of like something for everyone.
15:34
Kind of moment in a funny. Right.
15:36
You know, we have to talk about principal Weems played by the
15:41
incredible. Gwendoline Christie as so
15:44
excited for her, such a great role.
15:46
She actually said in an interview in Vogue recently
15:49
about working with you and I just want to read it.
15:51
She said, principal Larissa Weems is the most glamorous
15:55
character I've ever played and the first time.
15:57
I felt genuinely beautiful in a screen project Colleen was so
16:01
extraordinary collaborative and made me and my body feels so
16:04
celebrated, I just thought that was beautiful.
16:07
So I want to know what was it like collaborating with
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Gwendolyn on this project and this character Well, it's
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really, it's really lovely that she said that, I mean that's
16:17
such a sort of articulate way of acknowledging somebody's work as
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a designer. I think it's really sweet and it
16:24
doesn't come off. And even though people feel it,
16:27
they don't necessarily say it. Hmm, Gwendolyn.
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And I met and I had this like, in my living room where I was
16:36
staying in the UK. I had a old, a vintage Alfred
16:41
Hitchcock picture. The Birds.
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And it was just a kind of three-quarter-inch shot of
16:45
Tippi, Hedren, these birds behind it, and I bought the
16:49
poster. As I remember, the moment, I saw
16:52
that movie and I, the poster was the most amazing colors.
16:57
It was like mode. And like a really, very French,
17:00
like, very French 60s, like faded pistachio and moves and
17:04
stuff. And I and the hair was kind of a
17:06
chignon and, you know, the the look and I showed it to her and
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I said, I can't get this out. I hear my head believes.
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I think that you could be not Tippi Hedren but like it's not
17:19
different character, but you could have the feeling of that
17:22
sort of classic old-world glamour like that, there's
17:27
people in small towns and stuff that you see that always look
17:31
very pulled together and glamorous even though they may
17:34
not be in a really big city or anything like that that you get
17:38
all the magazines and you're up-to-date and maybe you have a
17:42
local dressmaker you torture into making these clothes for
17:45
you. That you have like this thing in
17:47
that sort of the use of the Tweeds and the sort of faded
17:52
color. But a little bit softer was kind
17:55
of how I wanted her character backing into the reality of it.
17:59
These people that run these private schools aren't just
18:04
fusty old people in a Blazer. These people, these people have
18:08
to go out to fundraisers. They have to raise money.
18:11
They have to sell the school. You know, there's a lot that
18:14
goes into that job as a job. So I like having her being being
18:18
presentational in that way, in my mind, I mean, we never saw
18:22
her do that, but just like, I was like, okay, this is this
18:24
person and this is how she can be and, and then she brings her
18:28
own kind of Panache to the table.
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I mean, she's knows how to walk in a costume.
18:34
She knows how to when she stands out.
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Like it's a hoot because every time she goes out every time she
18:40
stops in a costume, it's the perfect like catalog pose for
18:44
the god. I can imagine.
18:46
It's hilarious for those of us who appreciate that.
18:49
She's so great. She never dropped.
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She never dropped it for a second.
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Oh my gosh. I love that.
18:54
I would love like some behind-the-scenes just video for
18:56
walking around. Oh, she's so awesome.
18:59
She was such a great collaborator for me and I had so
19:01
much fun with the character, I love that.
19:04
Yeah, I did think that that, like, in that sense, that where
19:06
she is very presentational, she has to be the face of the
19:08
school. So she might come off as hard
19:11
sometimes, but she still has to Present as soft with the color
19:14
palette and inviting to, to the outside world.
19:17
So, yeah, she's very interesting character.
19:20
Actually, at the end of the day. So so I want to talk about the
19:24
Poke up. It was so much fun.
19:26
You got to pack in a lot of interesting fun costumes, but I
19:30
imagine that it must be quite a challenge to I mean, this is
19:33
taking place and little boats on a water.
19:36
So how did your team go about the scene?
19:39
Well, I really have to hand this part of the Heavy lifting to
19:44
Mark and Bobby. Who was my Bobby suture is a
19:47
Brit who's, what was my second kind of costume assistant?
19:51
Because they were there? I wasn't there when we were
19:53
shooting the Poke up, but they were and they had to deal with
19:57
it. But in, you know, we did
19:59
versions of we did a couple versions of this costume.
20:02
These costumes to get them, right, we had to you, we had to
20:05
be able to have them at least work with with wet suit
20:09
underneath wet gear. So they wouldn't freeze.
20:13
Because it was cold, I mean, the fact that they get is so
20:16
amazing, they did such a great job and then we had each of the
20:20
family, like each kind of group represented and it just it kind
20:26
of came together. Gradually Wednesday's team was
20:30
kind of the first one that we started with because it was kind
20:34
of the winning team and we want to get that look right and then
20:38
back into the others and play them off, you know the different
20:41
things. So we Use different colors and
20:43
different blocks of colors, you know, kind of like racing
20:46
drivers and stuff with with sort of use of Graphics in
20:49
juxtaposition of color, but still to try to sell that they
20:53
could have made them themselves. They weren't like to
20:56
professional, right? They weren't having these
20:59
costumes and made out where now now, they kind of pulled it
21:02
together themselves. I've been dying to talk about
21:05
the Raven ever since I saw this episode, it was just fantastic.
21:11
I thought it was interesting. For the broader color palette.
21:14
It was lots of whites but then of course they all get covered
21:17
in blood so it made sense in the end, right?
21:20
Let's talk about the Raven. How did you pull this thing
21:23
together? Well, the whole idea The Raven
21:26
is it. We did.
21:28
It was sort of a white winter, white scene.
21:32
So we used a colors of snow and ice for the costumes, so there's
21:36
white but like in Bianca's saying, there's like a blue ice
21:40
tinge to it, so that was kind of Of the rule and that was in the
21:44
script from the start. So it was kind of like one of
21:48
those things where you kept saying, how much blood is there
21:51
going to be, how many takes don't even know what?
21:56
How many multiples of 100 of these costumes.
21:59
Yeah. So in there from the very
22:02
beginning, our rule was if we were out and we saw something
22:06
great, it could work for that ball.
22:07
We'd buy three of them. We started Gathering it really
22:12
early. Days to get enough stuff to, you
22:17
know, to make it work. And then the principles we found
22:20
we found in made their stuff to you know to sort of jazz them up
22:24
a little bit but just enough to cover the stuff because it got
22:29
pretty say me after a while. So we were really it's really
22:32
good that we knew ahead of time that you know, that it was that
22:38
it was the in the script and that they were going to get
22:40
blood on them. It's a real relief.
22:44
Yeah, you know, it's good and it worked really well when they did
22:48
it. We didn't do that.
22:49
I think they did it twice as Max, or they did one and then
22:53
they did Bill. Wow.
22:54
So wasn't like, as crazy as we all thought it was going to be.
22:57
We were little, but that's kind of the genius of Tim.
23:01
He knows like what things he's going to get and he sort of gets
23:05
him in pieces. So so it works great.
23:07
And then her dress for the dance.
23:10
Oh man, we have to talk about This is the most famous dress in
23:14
the world right now. The know, isn't it crazy?
23:17
It's insane. I saw the Olympic skater thing
23:21
the other day, I was like, well, that's pretty cool, right?
23:23
I mean it's being it's showing up everywhere now and and for
23:26
good reason, it's a gorgeous dress, I love this dress.
23:29
Well you know what's funny about that dress?
23:31
I was looking for, you know, I was thinking about it the whole
23:34
time because it was always in the script that she had this
23:37
epic dress and I was kind of thinking, you know, figuring I'd
23:41
end up making it because I needed so many and I was kind of
23:45
going, it's she supposed to get it from this, you know, thrift
23:48
store in town. So I was like, okay.
23:50
So do kind of thinking well, maybe it has a skirt like an
23:54
old, you know, prom dress but the talk could be something
23:57
different and not a prom dress and I was walking down Bond
24:00
Street in London. And I looked and I was went into
24:03
the Alaia shop and this dress was on a mannequin and I was
24:06
like, oh my God, it's the dress, it's a dress size thinking of
24:11
but better. And I had an assistant with me
24:15
at the time, it was about the same size as Jenna so I had I
24:19
said could you put that on for me and let me just see how it
24:21
moves and stuff. So she put it on and I was like
24:26
it was so great and we ended up buying it and then I had to
24:31
replicate it. I did some, a few little changes
24:34
to it to make it more cinematic for Jenna because the scale of
24:38
it was a little bit bigger and I just pulled it in a little bit.
24:42
So it was an overwhelming on her petite body but she put it on
24:49
when she put it on. She was just like she loved.
24:52
It was like like the perfect kind of marriage of address and
24:56
an artist, right? And we had no idea, you know
25:00
what the choreography was going to be for the number at the at
25:05
that point in history. I just knew it would be
25:09
addressed that she could really dance in and really do
25:11
something. And then She took it so next
25:13
level you know it's so iconic. It's like a star was born in a
25:17
moment with the dress and you know, of course everyone loves
25:20
Jennifer Ortega, but it's such an incredible scene.
25:23
Yeah, it's she really made it something more than anybody ever
25:27
imagined. You know, it was spectacular.
25:30
I want to talk about Christina Ricci and the her character has
25:34
a Marilyn Thornhill as she loves plants.
25:37
So I kind of feel like that played a little bit into her
25:40
costume. Lee.
25:42
She was, you know, I tried to find without getting to, like
25:47
about it, but I, I tried to find things that were very sort of
25:52
floral or plant, like I felt like she was somebody that was
25:56
kind of either kept stuff for a long time or maybe did a little
26:01
thrift shopping. So she had a lot of vintage
26:05
pieces mixed with contemporary in her wardrobe.
26:08
I liked the idea of her being in sir.
26:12
The green kind of plant colors but I changed it up with other
26:16
stuff too. So there wasn't just like she
26:18
was the green person in the in the thing, great originally she
26:23
was gonna do her hair, wasn't going to be as red as it ended
26:26
up being in the in the movie. But Tim really wanted her hair
26:30
to be super red. So it ended up working well with
26:33
the colors of her wardrobe, which are more kind of muted
26:37
greens a little, you know, the blue boiler suit and all that,
26:41
which is a vintage Boiler suit from the 40s.
26:44
So I kind of had fun with her in the sense of mixing vintage
26:48
pieces with with contemporary fashion in a way that made her
26:52
Timeless in her in her look. Right.
26:55
And it pops so well against her red shoes too.
26:58
Yeah. Those boots I couldn't cash
27:00
believe because those were in the script and I was like I
27:04
couldn't believe that we actually found Boots.
27:07
We ended up making them more red than they were but we at least
27:11
found Boots that had Red base that we could.
27:14
We over spray them with rubber, that was a brighter red to get
27:18
that really strong red color for her, right?
27:22
I love those boots. I think everyone loves those
27:25
boots. Well, Colleen, thank you so much
27:27
for joining us to talk about Wednesday.
27:29
This I love the show, the entire world loves it and so excited to
27:33
see all the excitement around the show going into all these
27:37
award seasons and whatnot. So it's a real honor, pretty
27:40
great. Thank you so much.
27:42
It's been Been a fun kind of it was kind of a quiet show.
27:46
Nobody knew what was really going on and then boom people
27:49
just like to all over the world when that happens, right?
27:55
Well, thank you Colleen, thank you so much.
27:56
It's been a real honor was nice meeting.
27:58
You take care. You're out of costume.
28:04
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