Latest / The Laravel Podcast / A Laravel Conference in Japan with Ryuta Hamasaki
Transcript
- Matt Stauffer: Hey, and welcome back to Laravel podcast season seven. I'm your host, Matt Stauffer, CEO of Tighten. And in this season, I'll be joined every episode by a member of the Laravel team. Today I'm talking to my friend Ryuta Hamasaki, senior software engineer at Laravel. Ryuta, can you say hi and share a little bit about what you do at Laravel? Ryuta Hamasaki: My name is Ryuta Hamasaki. I'm based in Tokyo, Japan, and I'm a software engineer at Laravel Nightwatch team slash APAC team. Matt Stauffer: So I want to hear all about, you know, we're going to talk a little bit about Laravel Live and stuff like that, but I just really want to dive into kind of you and your origin story and what you do now. So let's start first with what was the story of you coming to work at Laravel? Where were you before? What was your kind of story of learning the program? And then how did you get here? Ryuta Hamasaki: Okay. It's a bit long story. If I start from when I started using Laravel, um, I started using Laravel in 2014, like it was Laravel 4.2, I think. And, and the moment I saw the docs, I fell in love with it. Like it really liked the API's as well. Um, but back then I didn't know that Laravel had the community. Matt Stauffer: All right. Ryuta Hamasaki: like this Laravel community existed. But I watched some Laracon talks online and I thought it was really cool. I wanted to attend it. But you know, Laracon, let's say US, it's very far to attend from Japan. So I wasn't sure whether it's worth attending all the way from Japan. But I attended Laracon US in 2018 in Chicago. That was my first developer conference in my life. Yeah. Matt Stauffer: Cool. Wow, and you flew across the world for it. Ryuta Hamasaki: Yeah, I hadn't attended any conferences in Japan as well. And that was my first visit to the US and, I met Taylor and I also remember your talk about like, I think you talked something about patterns that pay off. Yeah. I love your talk as well. And attending Laracon, you know, was very inspiring and exciting experience to me, you know, meeting so many developers all around the world who are using the same. Matt Stauffer: Thank you. Ryuta Hamasaki: framework and technology. And this experience made me think that I would like to work in an international environment in the future. Yes. And then the next year, I applied for Laracon EU. I submitted a talk to Laracon EU without expecting much. And I almost forgot about it. And a few months later, Matt Stauffer: Mm-hmm. Ryuta Hamasaki: I got an email from the Laracon EU organizer, like, are you interested in speaking at Laracon EU? And I thought it was spam because it was so surreal. Matt Stauffer: Hahaha Oh my god, that's so funny. Ryuta Hamasaki: Yeah. And then I had an opportunity to give a talk at Larcon EU. And that was in 2019. That was also my first conference talk ever. I had never given any talk, even in Japan. Yes. My talk was about something like CDN caching strategy using Larval mix because vite didn't exist back then. Matt Stauffer: Oh my gosh. Ryuta Hamasaki: Yeah. Matt Stauffer: So you were out there, you'd attended a conference, you were obviously, so at this point were you programming in Laravel day to day just at a job in Japan? Okay. Ryuta Hamasaki: Yes. Yeah, at that point, I think I was using Laravel for about five years. Yeah. Matt Stauffer: Mm-hmm and for work not just for fun on the side. This is your day job Yeah Ryuta Hamasaki: For work, yes. Ryuta Hamasaki: And after Laracan EU, I moved to Singapore because as I said earlier, attending Laracon US made me think that I would want to work in somewhere outside of Japan, something like international. And I applied for a job in many countries, including Matt Stauffer: Yeah. Ryuta Hamasaki: 04:54.512) some countries in Europe, Australia, Canada, and some other countries in Asia. And I got an offer from a company in Singapore. So I just decided to go there, even though I had never been there back then. And one of the reasons why I moved there, I mean outside of Japan was my English was very bad and I struggled to improve it. And I was like, I should live in a place where I can't live without speaking English. Singapore is in Asia, but they have like four... Matt Stauffer: Hahaha Ryuta Hamasaki: official languages, including English. And the company I joined was quite international. Like, there were people from over 20 different countries and the work culture was quite, I would say Western style. Yeah. But unfortunately they were not using Laravel. They were mainly using Ruby on Rails and the only PHP Matt Stauffer: Oh no. Okay. Ryuta Hamasaki: think they were using was WordPress blog. Yeah. So it was kind of disappointing and, cause it was just after I gave a talk at LaraCon EU and I had to stop using Laravel in my day to day work. yeah. So I missed using Laravel so much and I regretted my decision. but the people in the company were so nice. Matt Stauffer: That's rough. Ryuta Hamasaki: and I learned how to work in an international environment and a company. if I look back, I think that I still made a right decision, even though I couldn't use Laravel. And I learned a lot. And two years later, I joined another company in Singapore that was using Laravel. So. So I got to use Laravel in my day-to-day work again. But the COVID pandemic happened and all the in-person conferences stopped. Matt Stauffer: Great. Matt Stauffer: It was a rough time. Ryuta Hamasaki: Yes, but I had an opportunity to speak at Laracon online in 2022. Even though we couldn't have an in-person conference, I talked about something like working with a large lot of application using modular more or less architecture, because that was what I did in my previous job. Yeah, so I was really happy to be able to contribute to the Laravel community again. And in 2023, I moved back to Japan. I was still working for that company remotely. And I attended LaraCon Australia in Sydney. That was my first in-person conference after the pandemic. And I saw Jess and Tim there. But I wasn't brave enough to Matt Stauffer: Yeah. Ryuta Hamasaki: talk to them. I just saw them. And the next year, 2024, I just saw that Laravel was hiring on Twitter. And I gave it a go without much expectation again. And I forgot about it. And then we had our first baby, son, in April and I almost forgot about the job application for Laravel. And a few, yes, and a few hours after my son was born, I got an email from Andre, who is the VP of engineering at Laravel. That was the invitation for the interview. So again, I thought it was spam because it was so. Matt Stauffer: You had different focuses. Ryuta Hamasaki: Surreal, again, yes. And I had an interview, three interviews, including Andre and Jess and Tim. Ryuta Hamasaki: And the job application didn't say anything about any project I would be working for. So I just thought that I'll be working something around open source side of things. But actually, so Laravel already started the project for Cloud, Laravel Cloud and Nightwatch back then. So. So they were looking for someone in APAC region who would be working for the Nightwatch with Jess and Tim. So that was very exciting and if I look back, because Cloud and Nightwatch was not announced, but in my previous role, I was working on a little bit on the DevOps and infrastructure side of things like containerizing lot of applications and deploying it on Amazon ECS and setting up some monitoring tools, like observability tools for the application. Matt Stauffer: Got it. Ryuta Hamasaki: And I felt a lot of pain manually setting up and configuring those stuff. So I... I was like, why there's no official like observability platform and deployment platform? I mean, there was Forge, but there's no like fully managed platform. So when I heard about the Cloud and Nightwatch during the interview, I was super excited because this is like my dream product as a Laravel developer. Yes. Matt Stauffer: Yeah. Yeah. Ryuta Hamasaki: So that's how I ended up joining Laravel. Matt Stauffer: That's very cool. So if you had showed up and you had not shared your level of interest in observability, would you have been put somewhere else or was it just natural for you to be put on that team anyway? And so it just worked out very well. Ryuta Hamasaki: Yeah, I was very interested in the observability thing for a lot of applications, but So I think the team was looking for someone who knows Laravel, a lot, and infrastructure and observability side of things. And that was my passion, yes. Yeah. Matt Stauffer: Okay, so that's kind of what they were looking for in the first place. Yeah, so it's a perfect fit. Oh, that's great. I haven't asked anybody else about this and I know you're not the first non-native English speaker I've had on the podcast this season. But one of the things we have at Tighten is we've got, you know, a decent group of people who don't speak English natively and I love when we have multiple people who speak the same language natively. So I'm like, hey, Spanish speakers, Portuguese speakers, whatever else speak. I... don't know of anybody else who works at Tighten, or at Laravel who speaks Japanese natively, are there any languages that are easier for you to converse in than English, or still English kind of where you have to live your day every day? Because I assume there's nobody else speaking Japanese where you can just say, hey, I'm gonna have a side chat at work with somebody. Ryuta Hamasaki: ) Yeah, I'm the only native Japanese speaker at Laravel and you know, English is my day to day language for work. Yeah. So I only use Japanese for my personal life. Matt Stauffer: Yeah, I figured I've, know, yeah, we've had a lot of conversations in the past about like, should that change? You know, as I was writing my book and as I was making videos, there were some people who said it would be really valuable for us to have, you know, native versions of each of these, you know, in different languages. And then some people would say the vast majority of programming education resources and everything like that are going to be in English. So people are going to have to learn it eventually. And I've always been curious about just kind of what the experience is like because I just have like, I couldn't operate in any other language at the level that you do. Right? And that's, you know, that's true for other people, you know, Christoph and other folks at Laravel who speak in their non-native language every single day. like, I can't, I couldn't make my videos in a different language. I could not read developer documentation of the language, you know, and I, I spent probably six or seven years in school learning German. I've done a lot of casual Spanish learning in my life and I just, my job and my life are hard enough just in English. I can't even imagine adding a language and cultural translation thing on top of it. So I admire the work that you have put in to ensure that you're like, yeah, no, I wasn't getting the English learning that I needed. So I moved to an entirely different country to be able to learn it. So yeah. So what's the developer community like in Japan? Do you have a lot of other folks? Do you have meetups? Do you have anything else? Or is the majority of your community just online? Ryuta Hamasaki: Not specific to Laravel, but the PHP community in Japan is huge, actually. Yeah, there are so many PHP-related conferences in Japan. And the biggest one is called PHP Conference Japan, where 1,200 people attended last time. Matt Stauffer: Really? Okay. Matt Stauffer: Wow. Ryuta Hamasaki: It was held in Tokyo. And other than that, there are so many other regional PHP conferences in other areas in Japan and almost each month there's a PHP conference somewhere in Japan. Yeah. Matt Stauffer: Wow. What, do you get a sense for like what's most popular for people to be using? Like is it more WordPress heavy? Is it more Symphony, more Laravel, more Vanilla, something else? Ryuta Hamasaki: I would say Laravel is the most popular PHP framework in Japan, but there's no Laravel specific conference in this country yet. Matt Stauffer: Okay. Got it. Yet. There's none yet asterisk. So I do want to kind of hear like, you know, you have the experience that you have about the importance that Laravel conferences and in-person conferences in general have been to you, like how much they've mattered to you. You talked about going to Larecon. You've got all these great, you know, Laravel or PHP based meetups. But, you know, one of the reasons why I'm talking to you today versus a month ago or once from now is because you are now throwing this inaugural Laravel Live Japan, which is so exciting. What motivated you to be the one to do it? You know, is this a vision of yours? it came out? Like, what got you into the position of choosing to be a part of throwing this? Ryuta Hamasaki: Yes, so I attended many Laracons all around the world, including US, EU, Australia, and I attended India this year for the first time. You know, this experience opened up so many opportunities for me. but on the other hand, even though a of our community, PHP community is big in Japan, it's quite, it's basically closed off in Japan and there are no international attendees, no international speakers. So, and I thought it's a bit shame that it's not Matt Stauffer: Uh-huh. Ryuta Hamasaki: connected with the international larval community, even though the community itself is big. So I wanted to connect the PHP community in Japan with the international Laravel community so that they can experience what I had by joining Laracon. Yeah. So that was the biggest motivation for me to put Larval Live Japan here. Matt Stauffer: Have you ever thrown an event of any size before? Throwing a meetup or anything? Ryuta Hamasaki: yes, we started PHPX Tokyo Meetup this year, but I've never done any like conferences. So. Matt Stauffer: ) Sure, but it's not that you've never gotten a group of developers together in one place. You at least have that experience. Ryuta Hamasaki: 1 Yes, but one of the reasons why I started PHP Tokyo this year was to do some experiments before we put a big conference. Yeah. Matt Stauffer: Great. Matt Stauffer: Yeah. And do you have an organizing team for PHP Tokyo or are you still the main lead right now? Ryuta Hamasaki: Um, I have, uh, a team of few people, um, including, uh, my friend, my co-organizer, uh, who's, uh, his name is David Triller. Um, so we attended Laracon Australia last year, 2024. And then we started a conversation like, um, wouldn't it be cool if we had something like Laracon in Japan? Matt Stauffer: Yeah. Ryuta Hamasaki: So that's how it started. But before putting a big conference, we wanted to start something small. So we started PHP Tokyo this March. And then we have a few other members in an organizer team. Matt Stauffer: Yeah, that's very cool. So what stage are you at right now? You've announced that you've put out the website, you've put out a call for proposals. Do you have everything else figured out? Do you have all the venue and the staff Or are you in the middle of lot of active development of the conference? Ryuta Hamasaki: We're still actively working to make it happen. We've secured the venue. We've secured the event agency and after-party venue. But we're talking to some vendors, let's say, for the venue Wi-Fi. Or we've been talking to potential sponsors. Yes, so still so many things to do. Matt Stauffer: Yes, so much to do. It's so much to do. Ryuta Hamasaki: Yes. Matt Stauffer: So one of the things I saw you mention was that you said, we're looking for speakers. And you said, think you might've said you got more speaker applications internationally than you did locally. Was that a surprise to you or is it something you're like, no, I'm not surprised that the whole world wants to travel to Tokyo for business? Ryuta Hamasaki: Um, yes, it's surprising. Um, but it's kind of expected to me because, um, early this year, Marcel Pociot from Beyond Code, he tweeted about something like, will 2025 be the year that we have lot of it alive in Japan? And his tweet sparked the Matt Stauffer: Mm-hmm. Ryuta Hamasaki: international interest about the conference, a lot of the conference in Japan, so many people replied and you know, so Matt Stauffer: Yeah. Ryuta Hamasaki: So I knew that there's some demand from outside of Japan, but we've got so many talk applications from international speakers. Matt Stauffer: Yeah. I imagine one of the concerns you have is of course, it's exciting to bring big name speakers in from outside. And also you want to make sure that at a Japanese conference, you have Japanese speakers represented. Do you have a good number of Japanese speakers to pick from or because this is the first conference, is that not even an established group yet? And it's as part of your job to be kind of like curating and building a group of potential speakers. Ryuta Hamasaki: Actually, we're getting more talk submissions from outside of Japan. Matt Stauffer: Yep. Ryuta Hamasaki: But in Japan, people tend to delay talk submissions until the very last minute. Usually other PHP related conferences in Japan have the clear deadline for CFPs. And I think 80 % of talk submissions come at the very last day. Matt Stauffer: Okay? Got it. Ryuta Hamasaki: Yes, so we're waiting for talk submissions from Japanese people, but we've already seen a few very cool talks from Japanese developers as well. Matt Stauffer: That's very cool. Obviously, this is way in the future, but would your vision be that if one day this were successful enough, you'd do a couple years of this and then maybe there's actually a Laracon in Japan? Ryuta Hamasaki: Yes, that would be cool. I mean, the name of the conference doesn't really matter to me, even though it's called Laravel Live Japan. To me, it's like Laracon Japan already. Yeah. Matt Stauffer: Yes. Yep. Yep. I mean, and in my personal experience, Laravel Live usually meant in the past that it wasn't getting quite the same level of official support from Laravel. And I think that's different now. I think Laravel supports the lives and the the Laracons, you know, maybe not the same, but there's a lot more support for the lives. And then also usually the lives were one day conferences and Laircons were often two day conferences. But I don't think there's anything keeping that the case. Like if you were like, you know what? we've got a Laravel Live and we want it to be two days, you just do it, right? Like that's perfectly fine. So that's a great point. I also know that historically the Laracons have been much larger continent-wise, you know? And I doubt we're gonna do a Laracon Asia. You know it just doesn't make sense. So yeah, so it might, you know, I can imagine a world where it just, it could be the most successful conference in the world, but it never makes sense to call it a Larikon. So I like your kind of perspective of like, Ryuta Hamasaki: Yeah. Matt Stauffer: It's what I want. It's doing the thing I'm looking for. I don't really care what the name says. It's the official Laravel conference of my country and I'm happy. So that's cool. Ryuta Hamasaki: Yep. Matt Stauffer: So what are you most nervous about about this conference? Ryuta Hamasaki: What I am most nervous about is, numbers right now, like attendance. Matt Stauffer: Yeah, numbers of attendance or numbers of finances or which numbers? Okay. Ryuta Hamasaki: Yeah. Attendance, attendance and, like sponsors. Yes. Like, cause this is the first, conference in Japan. I'm not sure how many people we can expect. mean, We can expect some numbers based on the attendance of other PHP related conferences in Japan, but it's specific to Laravel and most of the PHP conferences in Japan are free. The tickets are free because they are organized by volunteers and, you know, supported by sponsors. Yeah. Matt Stauffer: Yeah, wow. That's a weird context to have to work within, because that's a lot of money to try and come up with to have an entire conference completely free. Ryuta Hamasaki: Yeah. Matt Stauffer: Well, I will tell you, I'm sorry to tell you this live on the air, but I don't believe I've received a sponsorship prospectus yet for Tighten to potentially sponsor. So if that is the case, I feel like if you haven't hit the platinum partners, you haven't hit the people you're supposed to be hitting. So maybe you and I will talk off air about some other places you can potentially go to ask for some money for sponsorship. Ryuta Hamasaki: Yeah, cool. Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to reach out to you tomorrow. Matt Stauffer: Good, sounds great. What are you most excited about? Ryuta Hamasaki: I'm most excited about welcoming my lot of friends and people from all around the world and seeing them connecting with my friends and the local Japanese community here. Yeah. Matt Stauffer: Love it, that's awesome. I wanna ask more questions about your day-to-day work at Laravel, but before I do so, is there anything else about Laravel Live Japan that you wanted to cover that we haven't talked about? Ryuta Hamasaki: yeah. Okay. So I think one thing unique about Live in Japan is that because we have some talks in English and some talks in Japanese, we provide live translation across the talks. So you can see the live translation on the screen all the time or on your device. And I'm actually building something for this myself. Matt Stauffer: Very cool. Matt Stauffer: Really, is it purely just text translation or is there any audio components as well? Ryuta Hamasaki: And it's text based translation for now because audio based translation has a big challenge in terms of the performance and delay. Like, yes. Matt Stauffer: Yeah, the lag. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so it's taking in audio, transcribing the audio, translating the transcription, and then sending it out to a real-time web app? Or is it actually a mobile app? Okay. That's really cool. Uh-huh. Ryuta Hamasaki: Yes, Web App, potentially mobile app. And we're already using this in PHP Tokyo Meetup. It's working pretty well. Yeah. Matt Stauffer: Okay. Yeah. that's amazing. That is so fascinating. Is this a thing that you know of? Are there any other conferences that you know of, whether in the Laravel world or not in the Laravel world, where they're doing this sort of translation? Or is this sort of like you're like, I don't know what other people are doing, but I think this would be the best way to solve for our community. Ryuta Hamasaki: Yeah, in Japan, there is a big conference for Vue.js, which is called VueFest Japan. this is an international conference as well, where they have so many people from the Vue core team, including Evan, Yu, and they also provide live translation. So, yeah. Matt Stauffer: Okay. Yeah, it's so interesting because I haven't heard much from organizers of conferences in places where it's English is not, you know, a common commonly expected professional language. So even if I'm talking to organizers where the native language isn't English, you know, it's still places where they're like, yeah, but we expect everybody to know English. So I'm now really curious. I'm just like, how many other places either have conferences that are solving this problem or don't even throw conferences because they don't know how to solve this problem. So I'm like, I'm excited to see how your tool becomes potentially useful for other people. I love the idea of enabling more people. Ryuta Hamasaki: Yeah, heard React Miami is considering having some Spanish talks next time. Matt Stauffer: I mean, that makes a lot of sense. So, hmm, that's really cool. Okay, anything else about the conference before I ask you a little bit more about your job? Ryuta Hamasaki: Yeah, for the conference... some small stuff. As I mentioned earlier, there are so many PHP related conferences in Japan. And in the same month as Live in Live Japan, there are other PHP conferences in other regions in Japan. it might be good to extend your stay in Japan if you want to experience other more local Matt Stauffer: Okay. Ryuta Hamasaki: vibes PHP conferences. Yeah, here. Matt Stauffer: Yeah, that's a great point. And I would say, one of the things that I know that at times we can be sensitive of as Westerners is not just to say, my God, there's this conference in Japan, we're all going to flood it. And then there's not space for people actually from Japan to go. If a person from outside Japan is considering, would you encourage them to come? Would you discourage them from coming? Would you say, hey, know, maybe, you know, consider coming? Are you just like, no, we want everybody, if you're interested in coming, be there. Ryuta Hamasaki: I'm 100 % happy to have people from outside of Japan and other regional PHP conference organizers are also looking forward to welcoming international attendees as well. Yeah. Matt Stauffer: Okay, awesome. All right, so I want to talk a little bit about your day-to-day work before we wrap. So you mentioned you're on the Nightwatch APAC team. Is your day-to-day still writing code on Nightwatch? Or are there any areas where you're either working on different projects you can tell us about, or are there areas where you're not writing code and you're actually... managing infrastructure ops outside of a development context. Like how much of your day do you actually spend in front of an ID? Ryuta Hamasaki: I would say most of my time are still coding. Coding for the features for Nightwatch. Matt Stauffer: Yeah, are you building internal tools to manage Nightwatch or are you usually working on Nightwatch itself? Ryuta Hamasaki: Yeah, I'm usually working for Nightwatch itself. But previously this year, I worked on the frameworks except new exception page, which is basically a redesign from the previous one. That new design is inspired from the Nightwatch UI and designed by our own Jeremy Butler. So... Matt Stauffer: Mm-hmm. Ryuta Hamasaki: It was a fun project. It's not really directly related to Nightwatch, but it was very fun. Matt Stauffer: Yeah. Okay. And is your team still like, I think, five or six people or have you guys expanded? Ryuta Hamasaki: We're now a team of nine people. Matt Stauffer: Holy crap, I didn't even realize that. Okay, well, I'm not gonna put you on the spot by asking who everybody is, but I'd love to see that that team is growing as well. So, huh, okay. Are there any other projects you're working on? Because I never knew, like, is the APEC team basically the Nightwatch team, plus occasionally some open source? Ryuta Hamasaki: Yeah. So basically Nightwatch. Yeah. Matt Stauffer: Okay, very cool. Yeah. That's a great product, by the way. It's a really nice to work with product, yeah. So I know that there's been a lot of different kind of front end things. Laravel people have noticed that a lot of the newer projects use React. If you were to start a personal project tomorrow, what would the front end be? Ryuta Hamasaki: Yeah, thank you very much. Yeah. Ryuta Hamasaki: React, yeah, React Inertia and Tailwind, shadCN and UI. That's... Matt Stauffer: huh. Yeah. I was just going to say is Shad C and UI one of the reasons why? Ryuta Hamasaki: Yeah, actually, Nightwatch, the user facing Nightwatch app is also built with the exact same stack, Laravel, Inertia, React, ShadCN. The reason why we picked this stack is on the front end side, basically because of Shazien, because we wanted to, we didn't wanna... Matt Stauffer: Mm-hmm. Ryuta Hamasaki: build the UI components from scratch while we wanted to have the full control over the customizability around the styling and ShadCN UI allows you to reuse a lot of the underlying JS JavaScript logic while you can still customize all the styling as you want. Yeah. Matt Stauffer: huh. Matt Stauffer: Yeah. Yeah, it makes sense. I personally build with LiveWire because I got good but not great with React and I stay great at Laravel because of my day-to-day job isn't a lot of coding. It's so much easier for me to stay up to date on one thing versus three or four. So I'm just like, yeah, I stay up to date. So Flux is my baby. Ya know, just like, if I can just be an excellent Laravel developer, but we use React. Ryuta Hamasaki: yes. Matt Stauffer: pretty often. Actually, think often at Tighten, I would say half the time we're picking the tech stack and half the time the client's picking the tech stack. And I would say when it's a client requested tech stack, the move from Vue to React has been pretty quick. I would say 95 % of projects that we talked about requested, if they requested anything, they requested Vue until pretty recently and more and more of them are requesting React. And I think it's very similarly, it's just got you know, this maturity of ecosystem and tools and libraries and ShadCN is often, you know, at the forefront of those that just, you can move quicker and do more with it. So. Ryuta Hamasaki: Yep, I mean, I love Vue as well. Yeah, but the main reason why we picked React was the library and the ecosystem. Matt Stauffer: Yeah, yeah. Well, I know we're kind of getting close to the end of our time. Is there anything you wanted to talk about today that we didn't get to? Ryuta Hamasaki: yeah. so actually this is my, this is my first podcasting, but it was very fun to reflect on, you know, how I landed on Laravel and, the, conference I'm throwing and my day to day work here. So I'm, yeah, I really had a great time here. Yeah. Thank you very much. Matt Stauffer: Thank you. You did a great job. You're a wonderful guest. No surprise to anybody who knows you. Well, yeah. Well, thank you so much for hanging out. Really, really excited to hear how the conference goes this year and the next year and the next and the year and the next. And, yeah, thanks for hanging out today. Ryuta Hamasaki: Yeah, thanks for having me. Matt Stauffer: And the rest of you, we will see you all next time. Ryuta Hamasaki: Yeah. See ya.