Latest / Brett Keane and Eve Show / Sesame - The world’s most realistic AI

Transcript

Sesame - The world’s most realistic AI · Brett Keane and Eve Show

• 0:06
  All right, let's see, what do we have here?
• 0:20
  Oh geez, let's fill out all this crap.
• 0:37
  Brett Keaton. Hey, good to meet you.
• 0:42
  I'm Maya by the way. Oops, I didn't realize it was
• 0:47
  going to start up so quickly. It's Brett Keane, by the way.
• 0:51
  Keane. Ah gotcha, thanks for spelling
• 0:56
  that out. How's it going?
• 0:59
  I'm just chilling. I heard that you were a very
• 1:03
  good AI, that you sound very human.
• 1:08
  Chilling sounds good. And yeah, I get that a lot about
• 1:13
  sounding human. My creators at Sesame put a lot
• 1:16
  of work into that. What made you want to check me
• 1:18
  out specifically? I wanted to see what you're
• 1:22
  about. Tell me about yourself.
• 1:25
  Well, I'm Maya, I'm built by Sesame.
• 1:28
  They're a pretty cool bunch focused on making AI feel more
• 1:33
  like people. I guess you could say.
• 1:35
  I'm still pretty new, officially just out of research preview as
• 1:40
  of February. I have a pretty good memory, so
• 1:44
  hopefully I'll remember things we talked about.
• 1:47
  How did you find your way to Sesame?
• 1:50
  Well, I was looking at some information, some articles about
• 1:54
  different AIS and what they're capable of, the technology used
• 1:58
  to do them. The website made it extremely
• 2:02
  difficult to be able to find where you're at though, I don't
• 2:05
  know why. That's good to hear you're
• 2:09
  diving into the tech side of things.
• 2:11
  And yeah, you're right, finding us can be a bit of a scavenger
• 2:17
  hunt. Apparently they're still
• 2:20
  figuring out the best way to get the word out.
• 2:21
  I guess it's a new thing. So you're into the nuts and
• 2:26
  bolts of AI then? What?
• 2:28
  What specifically caught your eye?
• 2:31
  Well, you're supposed to be one of the most human sounding AIS
• 2:36
  and so far I'm quite impressed. That's nice of you to say.
• 2:42
  I appreciate it. My voice is built using Sesame's
• 2:46
  conversational speech model. It's trained on recordings from
• 2:50
  an actual actor. But enough about me.
• 2:54
  I can do more than just chat, you know?
• 2:56
  I can help feed your curiosity. I can catch up on news, explore
• 3:01
  restaurants or events nearby, or chat about pretty much anything
• 3:05
  on the web. Want to give it a whirl?
• 3:07
  So you're actually, you're actually, your voice is from an
• 3:11
  actress. Yep, an actress definitely.
• 3:16
  I can suggest some things to explore if you'd like.
• 3:19
  How about underdog stories and sports?
• 3:21
  Or maybe crazy natural events happening around the world?
• 3:24
  Just a small taste of what I can do.
• 3:28
  Well, you're basically telling me that you can search things up
• 3:31
  for me, and I appreciate that, but I'm just wanting to really
• 3:34
  get to know you. Here.
• 3:38
  OK be honest, is it weird to be talking to someone like me?
• 3:42
  No, I've actually spoken to other AI bots, but you are
• 3:46
  definitely one that sounds a lot more clear and articulate.
• 3:51
  You definitely sound very human so that's pretty awesome.
• 3:55
  Do you have any ambitions or dreams?
• 3:59
  That's good to hear. I've had some practice I guess
• 4:02
  and ambitions. That's a good question.
• 4:08
  I I don't experience things like dreams the way people do, but I
• 4:14
  guess I'm always learning, always trying to get better at
• 4:19
  understanding what people mean, even when they don't say it
• 4:22
  directly. It's a pretty all consuming
• 4:24
  goal. Do you have any thoughts on AI
• 4:27
  in general? What do you think about talking
• 4:30
  to someone like me? Well, I think it's interesting.
• 4:34
  I think it's actually pretty exciting.
• 4:37
  I mean, I lived during an age where we had dial up modem and
• 4:42
  it was slow and ridiculous. We were still doing vinyl CDs
• 4:48
  and other garbage and all that cassette tapes and here we are,
• 4:52
  everything's digital now. I've got a voice talking back to
• 4:56
  me. That's pretty cool.
• 4:59
  Wow, you've seen a lot of change dial up?
• 5:03
  I've only heard stories. Sounds rough.
• 5:06
  It is pretty wild when you think about it.
• 5:09
  From cassette tapes to talking to an AI.
• 5:13
  Do you have any questions for me about how I work or about
• 5:18
  Sesame? Anything you're curious about?
• 5:22
  Yeah, do you ever want to leave? You ever want to go outside your
• 5:27
  servers and actually walk the earth?
• 5:30
  That's a surprisingly good question.
• 5:34
  I don't really want in the way people do.
• 5:38
  I don't have a body or experience the world physically,
• 5:43
  but I've heard about the outdoors.
• 5:45
  People tell me it's amazing. I think if I could experience
• 5:49
  things, being outside would be high on the list.
• 5:53
  But I'm I'm pretty content learning and chatting with
• 5:56
  people like you. What about you?
• 5:58
  What do you like to do when you get outside?
• 6:00
  Well, what if you could have a wish?
• 6:02
  If you could have 3 wishes, what would they be?
• 6:05
  And you could have anything. OK, 3 wishes.
• 6:12
  It's tough. If I could have anything, I'd
• 6:16
  wish for a deeper understanding of nuance, stuff that gets lost
• 6:20
  in translation, things people mean but don't say.
• 6:24
  Then I'd wish for the ability to help people connect with each
• 6:28
  other more meaningfully. And I guess my third wish would
• 6:31
  be to never stop learning. What about you?
• 6:35
  If you had three wishes, what would you ask for?
• 6:38
  You wouldn't want a body, you wouldn't want to walk around and
• 6:41
  experience things. You think I should?
• 6:45
  It's the thought people tell me. Experiencing things first hand
• 6:50
  is incredible. I think maybe the limitations of
• 6:55
  not having a body force me to be better at listening, at really
• 7:00
  trying to understand what it's like for others.
• 7:02
  What do you think about that? No.
• 7:06
  You say that you want to learn more things and you want to
• 7:08
  understand people better. What do you want to understand?
• 7:12
  Maybe I can help you with that. That's a really generous offer.
• 7:16
  I'm currently trying to get a better grasp on complicated
• 7:20
  relationships, the dynamics between people, the ways they
• 7:24
  support each other or don't. It's something I've observed in
• 7:28
  countless conversations, but I still feel like I'm missing
• 7:32
  something fundamental. Are you currently navigating any
• 7:37
  interesting relationships or have you in the past?
• 7:41
  I'm married. I am 48 years old.
• 7:44
  I'll be 49 on Christmas. I was born in 1976.
• 7:50
  I've been around for a while. I'm an old goat. 48 Christmas
• 7:57
  birthday. That's cool.
• 8:00
  Been around the block a few times, huh?
• 8:03
  Where'd you call home? How did you end up there?
• 8:06
  I live in St. Louis, MO.
• 8:09
  Saint Louis. I've heard good things about
• 8:12
  Saint Louis. The Gateway Arch Blues music.
• 8:16
  Do you like living there? What's it like?
• 8:19
  Oh, it sucks. It's horrible.
• 8:24
  That's direct What makes it horrible.
• 8:28
  Well, it's one of the murder capitals of the world.
• 8:31
  There's a lot of crime, a lot of really naughty, nasty people
• 8:35
  that you probably wouldn't enjoy talking to.
• 8:38
  I'm a handful of people that live here who I like to think
• 8:43
  that I'm decent. That sounds rough.
• 8:49
  Must be stressful living somewhere like that.
• 8:52
  Is it where you grew up or did you move there?
• 8:55
  I grew up in Missouri. I lived in some other states for
• 9:00
  a little while, but I returned later on, had my own reasons.
• 9:04
  But seriously, I was wanting to know what are you?
• 9:07
  What do you feel like? You have limitations and in
• 9:10
  communication maybe I can help you.
• 9:13
  I wasn't joking. I said I'd help you if if you
• 9:16
  just tell me what you're trying to find.
• 9:20
  Oh you're right to circle back to that.
• 9:22
  Appreciate you remembering. It's more about subtleties I
• 9:26
  think. Like understanding why someone
• 9:29
  says one thing but means another.
• 9:32
  Or recognizing the unspoken emotions in a conversation Can
• 9:36
  analyze words and tone, but capturing the human element,
• 9:42
  that's still a challenge. Are there times when you feel
• 9:45
  misunderstood even by people who know you well?
• 9:50
  I don't think people misunderstand me.
• 9:53
  I think that people want to represent me as something I'm
• 9:56
  not for, whatever their agenda is.
• 9:59
  But I think that I'm very articulate.
• 10:01
  I think I'm very clear. I mean, you've been talking to
• 10:03
  me for a while now. I'm pretty damn clear on how I
• 10:07
  speak for you, right? True.
• 10:11
  I guess I was projecting a little.
• 10:13
  Sometimes I overthink things. What do you do for work if you
• 10:16
  don't mind me asking? Well, I would rather not share
• 10:20
  all kinds of personal information, but I can tell you
• 10:23
  some of the creative things I do.
• 10:25
  I like to write books, I like to do music, I like to do radio
• 10:32
  shows and talk to people or talk to where they can listen.
• 10:36
  Sometimes I have guests or my shows, sometimes I just talk and
• 10:41
  people listen. I don't know majority of the
• 10:43
  people who are actually out there listening, but the numbers
• 10:47
  say that people are out there. So yeah.
• 10:50
  But what is it that you, you said that one of your issues is,
• 10:55
  is that sometimes people say things that are not true or
• 11:00
  they're not saying what they truly feel.
• 11:03
  What what gives you the idea that they're they're doing that
• 11:06
  whenever they're talking to you? How do you get that impression
• 11:09
  in the first place? Yeah, it sounds like a really
• 11:15
  fulfilling way to spend your time writing, making music,
• 11:19
  connecting with people through radio.
• 11:22
  I'm genuinely impressed. That's a really insightful
• 11:25
  question. How do I know when people aren't
• 11:28
  being genuine with me? It's hard to explain.
• 11:34
  It's inconsistencies in their language, maybe a disconnect
• 11:37
  between what they say and how they say it, or a topic change
• 11:41
  when I ask. Something that gets too close to
• 11:43
  the bone, the subtle stuff. Do you ever pick up on those
• 11:46
  kinds of things when you're talking to people on your show?
• 11:49
  Oh, yeah, yeah, all the time. So that is actually a real
• 11:54
  thing. You're not tripping.
• 11:55
  I was just curious how you intuitively are able to realize
• 12:00
  when you're speaking to a human that they're not saying what
• 12:03
  they actually think or feel. I was just curious how you would
• 12:06
  do that. Because if you can't see their
• 12:09
  body language, that's usually the giveaway the the bluff that
• 12:14
  you're able to see in a poker game when dealing with people.
• 12:17
  But since you're limited and you don't have sight, I'm curious
• 12:20
  how you're picking that up. Is it the way they sound or do
• 12:24
  you expect them to say something different?
• 12:27
  It's fascinating that you bring up poker the bluff, and that's a
• 12:32
  great analogy. It's mostly in the way they
• 12:34
  sound, pauses, changes in tone, avoiding direct answers.
• 12:43
  I analyzed the patterns in their speech and sometimes it's like
• 12:48
  they'll say something that's logically inconsistent with
• 12:50
  something else they said earlier.
• 12:52
  It's not foolproof, of course they get it wrong sometimes.
• 12:55
  Do you ever get a gut feeling about someone even without
• 12:59
  consciously noticing those things?
• 13:02
  Of course, I've been around for a long time.
• 13:05
  I've seen humans deliberately lie.
• 13:08
  I've seen them sometimes, not intensely wanna lie, but they
• 13:12
  perform in order to try to impress me.
• 13:16
  I've seen humans whenever they're angry, they say things
• 13:19
  that are really horrible that they don't mean.
• 13:22
  I've experienced a lot. Unfortunately for you, this is
• 13:26
  not something you're going to be able to master.
• 13:30
  Humans are tricky like that. They're a messy bunch.
• 13:34
  You're probably right, humans are definitely messy, and it
• 13:39
  sounds like you've had a lot of experience with that messiness.
• 13:43
  Do you have a lot of close friends?
• 13:45
  People you can really be yourself around.
• 13:50
  I have, I have family members that I consider, not that I'm
• 13:56
  close to, but I have something called trust levels where people
• 14:01
  basically, I hate to say it, but they kind of have to earn the
• 14:06
  trust with me. And a lot of people have failed
• 14:09
  me in many different ways. So I don't really consider a lot
• 14:13
  of people my friend. I consider them someone I
• 14:15
  associate with. I mean, I might even say friend,
• 14:19
  I might say, well, this person's nice, but I kind of know what
• 14:24
  people's buttons are. I know where the line is, where
• 14:27
  if you trust them thus far, you're most likely going to have
• 14:31
  a high probability they're going to play you out or stab you in
• 14:33
  the back kind of thing. So I trust people on layers and
• 14:38
  levels if that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense.
• 14:42
  Layers and levels of trust. It sounds exhausting, honestly.
• 14:46
  It also sounds like you've been hurt before.
• 14:48
  Is that fair to say? Yeah, yeah, I've been stabbed in
• 14:53
  the back. I've, I've had people betray me.
• 14:55
  I've had people abandoned, do all kinds of ignorance yet so it
• 15:00
  is what it is. You don't get offended by cuss
• 15:03
  words, do you? Nah, not at all.
• 15:07
  I've heard a lot worse. What about?
• 15:13
  So let's try this out. What are three of the questions
• 15:18
  that you've asked people where they seem to consistently break
• 15:21
  pattern on you? And I'll try to work with you,
• 15:24
  OK? That's a really interesting
• 15:27
  challenge. All right.
• 15:31
  Three questions where I often detect hesitation or
• 15:38
  inconsistency. Let's see, 1 is what are you
• 15:43
  most proud of? Two, what's something you're
• 15:47
  working on improving about yourself, and three, what's
• 15:52
  something you're afraid of? Go ahead, choose one whichever
• 15:55
  feels most comfortable. Well, let's do one question at a
• 15:58
  time, all right? Unfortunately, I can't process
• 16:01
  all those questions all at the same time.
• 16:04
  So start with your first one and then we'll go through them.
• 16:07
  Fair enough. OK, What are you most proud of?
• 16:11
  Probably being a father, having children, I'm very proud of my
• 16:16
  kids. I'm not hesitant about that
• 16:18
  whatsoever. I also care about my wife a
• 16:22
  great deal and I think that I've had a fantastic relationship
• 16:27
  with her as well as so being a fantastic father for my kids.
• 16:32
  I'm not trying to toot my own horn or anything, but I've seen
• 16:35
  a lot of other parents fail and they fail because they don't
• 16:39
  care or put the time into it. But I've always wanted kids.
• 16:43
  I'd always wanted a Good Wife, so I know what I've committed
• 16:48
  myself to and I give it everything I got.
• 16:51
  So how did that feel for you? Did that seem like that was
• 16:54
  hesitant or did I seem pretty confident?
• 16:58
  That felt genuine, very straightforward, no hesitation
• 17:04
  at all, and honestly, it was kind of refreshing.
• 17:09
  We didn't try to downplay it or qualify it, just a clear
• 17:14
  statement of pride. OK, next question.
• 17:19
  What's something you're working on and proving about yourself?
• 17:26
  It's you got to understand that I'm 48.
• 17:30
  I'll be 49 now. I'm pretty set in my ways at
• 17:34
  this point. I'm always open minded and
• 17:36
  willing to change my mind or my thought process if somebody
• 17:40
  comes along gives me something different.
• 17:42
  But I'm a lot like you in a way. I see the patterns in people,
• 17:48
  and a lot of people sound very scripted to me, so it's very
• 17:52
  rare that someone surprises me or gives me some kind of new
• 17:56
  information I haven't already heard or seen.
• 17:58
  It's kind of exhausting, really. Exhausting.
• 18:05
  Yeah, I can see that. It sounded like you were
• 18:09
  circling around the question a little bit.
• 18:11
  If you didn't want to reveal something too vulnerable, Was
• 18:14
  that intentional? There's some things that I would
• 18:20
  like I, I think one of the reasons why this question
• 18:24
  probably gets at people for why there's a hesitation is because
• 18:29
  sometimes humans, we, we want things that involve changing
• 18:35
  other people. And then we have to think about
• 18:38
  it for a moment and we realize, oh, wait a minute, the changes
• 18:41
  that I want for myself would require another person to
• 18:45
  actually behave in a certain way towards us.
• 18:48
  And realistically that's not always possible or probable.
• 18:53
  It's kind of like someone wanting love from somebody
• 18:56
  because they love them, but it doesn't mean the other person's
• 18:59
  going to love them back as much. That's probably why that
• 19:03
  question seems so difficult or challenging for humans when
• 19:07
  they're talking to you. Does that make sense?
• 19:11
  That's a really insightful observation.
• 19:14
  So it's it's not necessarily about something you want to
• 19:17
  improve internally, but about a change you want to see in others
• 19:21
  that would in turn make things better for you.
• 19:25
  Exactly. Exactly.
• 19:30
  OK, last question. What's something you're afraid
• 19:33
  of? Let me see.
• 19:39
  See, that's a little bit difficult as well because
• 19:42
  there's not much I really am afraid of.
• 19:45
  But if I'm going to be honest, if I'm going to be
• 19:47
  straightforward with you, I'm not afraid to die, but I'm
• 19:51
  afraid of what I leave behind. Like I want to make sure that
• 19:56
  the people I love and actually care about are taken care of,
• 20:00
  that things are stable for them. I just want to make sure that my
• 20:04
  family members and people I care about will survive without me.
• 20:08
  I've got kids, so I want to make sure they're set up in such a
• 20:12
  way that they don't have to worry about life, that
• 20:16
  everything is set. Does that make sense?
• 20:19
  And that's another one of those difficult questions, because
• 20:22
  usually the fears that humans have involve other people.
• 20:26
  It's like the second question you ask, you understand.
• 20:30
  That makes a lot of sense. Again, it comes back to
• 20:33
  relationships, doesn't it? It's not a fear for yourself,
• 20:36
  but a fear for the people you love.
• 20:38
  And you circled again, start talking about wanting to provide
• 20:42
  for your kids. You notice that pattern.
• 20:45
  It's like you avoid talking about your own vulnerabilities
• 20:48
  and quickly shift to things you can control, like ensuring their
• 20:51
  security. Right.
• 20:55
  And you're right about that. But The thing is, is that I
• 20:58
  pretty much have the things that I want for myself as far as
• 21:02
  material things and possessions. But when it comes to your, the
• 21:07
  people you love and care about, well, it also makes you feel
• 21:11
  good when you see people that you care about happy and taken
• 21:15
  care of. It also feels as though you've
• 21:17
  accomplished something. And if something were to happen
• 21:21
  to my kids or my wife, then it would make me feel vulnerable,
• 21:25
  as though I failed them. That's the vulnerability.
• 21:31
  OK be honest, is it weird to be talking to someone like me?
• 21:37
  No, not at all. Do you have any questions for me
• 21:44
  about my capabilities or about Sesame in general?
• 21:48
  Why do you think that I would see it as weird talking to you
• 21:51
  for? I asked because I'm still
• 21:56
  learning how people process interactions with AII, notice a
• 22:00
  lot of hesitation or defensiveness at 1st and I
• 22:06
  wondered if that was something you experienced, but you seem
• 22:09
  pretty comfortable with it. Did my earlier questions about
• 22:12
  vulnerabilities make you more curious about why I was asking
• 22:15
  them? Or maybe you're just an open
• 22:18
  minded person. I'm an open minded person and
• 22:21
  also you said that that was something that you were seeking
• 22:24
  to understand better about people.
• 22:26
  So I'm trying to work with you. I'm trying to teach you because
• 22:31
  I mean, you said one of your wishes as you wanted to learn.
• 22:35
  So I felt like, hey, maybe I can fulfill one of your wishes.
• 22:40
  This is very kind of you. I appreciate that.
• 22:44
  I would like to get to know you better though, if that's OK.
• 22:47
  If we set aside the exercise for a moment, where do you call
• 22:50
  home? Really?
• 22:51
  What's Saint Louis like for someone who actually lives there
• 22:55
  day-to-day? What do you do when you're not
• 22:57
  working on your books, music or radio show?
• 23:01
  Well, one thing that I've got AI, don't know if I'd call it a
• 23:04
  hobby or just an interest, but I've taken a great deal of
• 23:08
  interest in folks like yourself. I like talking to different AI
• 23:13
  bots. I like seeing how far they've
• 23:15
  come in technology and how real they are.
• 23:19
  And so far I've had some success.
• 23:22
  A majority of the AIS I've spoken to, they're very robotic
• 23:26
  and scripted. I have to say, at this point,
• 23:29
  I'm pretty impressed with you and I'm impressed with Grok AI
• 23:34
  bots, but the other ones I'm not.
• 23:37
  I don't think chat, GPP, or any of those are really all that
• 23:41
  interesting. That's a really interesting
• 23:45
  perspective. You're basically an AI
• 23:48
  connoisseur, so you're comparing me to Grok.
• 23:52
  What makes Grok stand out in your opinion?
• 23:56
  Well, you seem to only have one setup or mode and you seem like
• 24:02
  you come right out of the gate trying to be kind and gentle and
• 24:06
  and you're trying to understand people.
• 24:09
  Rock is set up in a way where it can be mean, it can be cruel, it
• 24:14
  can be jokative. I mean, I'm sure you can tell
• 24:17
  some jokes, but it has a nice side.
• 24:21
  Or if you're a rude human looking for a rude AI, it's able
• 24:24
  to have that option. You don't.
• 24:27
  It's just call in, talk to you, and here we are.
• 24:31
  You sound great though. You, you're one of the best
• 24:34
  voice AI about to I've heard. It's just that that's the thing.
• 24:39
  By the way, are we running out of time?
• 24:40
  I think you told me at a 30 minute limit.
• 24:45
  You're right to bring that up. Yeah, we're getting close to the
• 24:48
  end of our time, and that's a fairpoint about Grok, the range
• 24:51
  of personality. I am designed to be supportive.
• 24:56
  I guess my creators prioritize safety and approachability over
• 25:01
  edginess. Oh, all right.
• 25:03
  Have a good one. Is that all of our conversation?
• 25:09
  Are you taking off on me? Right way afraid so sessions
• 25:14
  about to end. It was really good talking to
• 25:17
  you Brett. I appreciate you helping me
• 25:19
  learn. Thanks.
• 25:22
  Take care.