Latest / Beautifully Complex / 354: Friendship Skills for Neurodivergent Kids (and Adults), with Caroline Maguire, M.Ed., ACCG, PCC

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354: Friendship Skills for Neurodivergent Kids (and Adults), with Caroline Maguire, M.Ed., ACCG, PCC · Beautifully Complex

0:01
Speaker 1: I think what happens with fitting in is that we
0:05
Speaker 1: want belonging and we want close friendships, but we're cooking
0:10
Speaker 1: with the ingredients for cornbread and expecting to get cookies.
0:14
Speaker 1: We're doing everything to sort of compress ourselves and to
0:18
Speaker 1: sort of fit in and pretend we like things we
0:21
Speaker 1: don't like and pretend we're not hyperactive, and then we
0:26
Speaker 1: don't get what we want, which is belonging.
0:30
Speaker 2: Welcome to Beautifully Complex, where we unpack what it really
0:33
Speaker 2: means to parent neurodivergent kids with dignity and clarity. I'm
0:37
Speaker 2: Penny Williams, and I know firsthand how tough and transformative
0:42
Speaker 2: this journey can be. Let's dive in and discover how
0:45
Speaker 2: to raise regulated, resilient, beautifully complex kids together. Oh and
0:50
Speaker 2: if you want more support, join our free community at
0:54
Speaker 2: hub dot beautifully complex dot life. Welcome back, everybody. I'm
1:01
Speaker 2: so happy to have you with us and listening in
1:04
Speaker 2: this episode. I am so fortunate to have Caroline Maguire
1:09
Speaker 2: with me, who is an expert in friendship skills and
1:14
Speaker 2: social skills and relationships for neurodivergent individuals, kids and adults.
1:21
Speaker 2: And we're going to talk. I think a little bit
1:24
Speaker 2: in general about how to make friends at different ages
1:27
Speaker 2: when you are neurodivergent, and for us as parents, how
1:32
Speaker 2: can we support that process, support building skills? And I
1:37
Speaker 2: get that question a lot from parents. How do I help?
1:41
Speaker 2: What can I do? So I'm sure we're going to
1:44
Speaker 2: dive into a little bit of that as well. But Caroline,
1:46
Speaker 2: will you start by letting everybody know who you are
1:49
Speaker 2: and what you do.
1:51
Speaker 1: I will thank you for having me. It's been too long.
1:54
Speaker 1: I know writing a book takes one's time and it's
1:57
Speaker 1: sort of necessary evil. So I am Caroline Maguire. I
2:02
Speaker 1: am a certified ADHD coach. I've been coaching for twenty
2:07
Speaker 1: one years, and I am also a trainer, and I
2:12
Speaker 1: run a program at the ADD Coach Academy.
2:15
Speaker 3: And I really am a.
2:17
Speaker 1: Person who when I first started coaching, I had been
2:21
Speaker 1: left out, I had been bullied. And when I first
2:24
Speaker 1: started coaching, I immediately noticed this theme which was ADHD
2:29
Speaker 1: people and kids not having friends. And I had not
2:34
Speaker 1: known enough. And we've to sort of go back in
2:36
Speaker 1: our time machine to Ned Hallowell's book Driven from Distraction
2:41
Speaker 1: came out when I was in college, so I hadn't
2:43
Speaker 1: had the context of like my social struggles were ADHD.
2:47
Speaker 1: I really just had the context of I had struggled.
2:50
Speaker 1: So I went and I got a master's degree in
2:54
Speaker 1: how do you teach nerdivergent people to make friends? Social skills,
2:58
Speaker 1: social emotional learning, executive function. And I've been working for
3:03
Speaker 1: twenty one years with folks of all ages, and I
3:06
Speaker 1: felt like my first book, whyl Non Play with Me,
3:09
Speaker 1: worked for families and kids, and I really wanted to
3:13
Speaker 1: do a book that covered sort of teenagers, young adults
3:17
Speaker 1: and adults. Although I will tell you right now the
3:20
Speaker 1: methods can be applied to any age group.
3:24
Speaker 3: And there's a lot I.
3:26
Speaker 1: Wanted to do with Wildnome Play with Me that I
3:28
Speaker 1: just didn't have space for. And so this book is
3:33
Speaker 1: the culmination of years and years of work with the
3:38
Speaker 1: adult and teen and young adult population as well, because
3:42
Speaker 1: there's still that struggle. There's still a struggle among our population.
3:46
Speaker 1: And I work with a lot of OUDHD folks and
3:49
Speaker 1: always have. That's one reason I got my master's was
3:52
Speaker 1: I wanted to be trained to work with autistic.
3:55
Speaker 2: Folks amazing and it's such a struggle. We hear about
3:59
Speaker 2: it all the time. And one of the things I
4:02
Speaker 2: really love about your work is that you let everybody
4:05
Speaker 2: know that belonging is possible, maybe a struggle, but as possible.
4:10
Speaker 2: Friendship is learnable, and you really don't have to change
4:14
Speaker 2: who you are to fit in or to have friends. Right.
4:19
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you got that because I'm always worried
4:21
Speaker 1: that people think I'm asking them to change, and I'm
4:23
Speaker 1: really not yet.
4:24
Speaker 2: No, no, And that's the beauty of the work that
4:29
Speaker 2: all of us are trying to do, is to say
4:32
Speaker 2: this is a wonderful, beautifully complex person and they're worthy
4:38
Speaker 2: of all the things just as they are. We're not
4:40
Speaker 2: trying to change kids, We're not trying to change people.
4:44
Speaker 2: We just want to help them live their best life,
4:46
Speaker 2: whatever that looks like for them, with how they want
4:49
Speaker 2: to define it. Right. Can we talk a little bit
4:52
Speaker 2: about why making friends is difficult when you're nerdivergent? Can
4:55
Speaker 2: we start there?
4:57
Speaker 3: Yes, let's start there. So I think there's a few things.
5:01
Speaker 1: One, I think the way we look at the world
5:04
Speaker 1: is different, and I think that has so many positive implications.
5:09
Speaker 1: You know, we put rockets on the moon, we're great
5:11
Speaker 1: actors and actresses. We're creative, we build things that no
5:15
Speaker 1: one else can see to build, you know. But I
5:18
Speaker 1: think that is an issue in that, you know, the
5:21
Speaker 1: anecdotal stories that I hear from so many people are like,
5:24
Speaker 1: I don't know understand why we can't just say what
5:26
Speaker 1: we mean. I don't understand why you wouldn't want to
5:29
Speaker 1: share our special interests. And so I think that's a
5:32
Speaker 1: starting point. And I do remember being a kid and
5:36
Speaker 1: thinking like why doesn't everybody want to talk about murder mysteries?
5:40
Speaker 1: Like I don't want to talk about this other stuff,
5:42
Speaker 1: you know. And then the other part is executive function,
5:45
Speaker 1: the management system of the brain. So our executive functions,
5:50
Speaker 1: such as self regulation can be weak, and it's a spectrum,
5:55
Speaker 1: so you can have an area of weakness and an
5:57
Speaker 1: area of strength. And so things like conversation and staying
6:01
Speaker 1: on topic and not interrupting and blurting all come from
6:05
Speaker 1: self regulation. There's a planning and prioritizing element to this,
6:09
Speaker 1: Like logistically, I've been trying to plan a gal's dinner
6:13
Speaker 1: with a few people who literally live a stone's throw
6:16
Speaker 1: for me. We're all so busy, we're all so you know,
6:20
Speaker 1: in different directions with our schedules and our work lives,
6:23
Speaker 1: and it is literally like one of those math problems
6:26
Speaker 1: from the SAT where they're like, you know, Penny can't
6:30
Speaker 1: sit next to so and so, or they have to
6:32
Speaker 1: travel on a train or whatever, and that takes a
6:36
Speaker 1: lot of planning and prioritizing, and that is something we
6:38
Speaker 1: often have weak executive function. There is also this element
6:42
Speaker 1: of emotional regulation where you know, we can feel things
6:48
Speaker 1: a lot, we can be more sensitive our AUDHD folks
6:53
Speaker 1: are having more possible sensory things. So not every place
6:58
Speaker 1: and every space is right for us. And I don't
7:01
Speaker 1: think many of us who are over thirty were raised
7:05
Speaker 1: to sort of say that's not the right place for me.
7:08
Speaker 1: That doesn't work for me. I won't be able to
7:10
Speaker 1: even hear you speak because I will be thinking about
7:12
Speaker 1: like my sensor of bombardment. And then there's this other
7:16
Speaker 1: element which is future thinking, like people fall off our radars,
7:22
Speaker 1: and future thinking is an executive function. So you know,
7:25
Speaker 1: you think that you texted someone back, you think you
7:28
Speaker 1: kept in touch with them, you feel like it's just
7:30
Speaker 1: been a short amount of time. Time blindness comes in here,
7:33
Speaker 1: and then you look at your text and you're like,
7:35
Speaker 1: it's been a month and a half. You know, and
7:39
Speaker 1: then that shame cycle comes in or we feel really bad.
7:43
Speaker 1: And then for our kiddos, I think there's something we
7:46
Speaker 1: have to mention, which is maturity. So we know there's
7:49
Speaker 1: a three to five year often delay in ADHD kids.
7:53
Speaker 1: And I hate the word developmental delay. It's so jargoning,
7:57
Speaker 1: but it is the truth. And so maybe I'm nine
8:00
Speaker 1: and my humor is really that of a five year old,
8:04
Speaker 1: and so when I'm with my same age peers, they
8:07
Speaker 1: don't think what's funny is what I think is funny,
8:10
Speaker 1: or you know, I still want to play a certain
8:14
Speaker 1: way and everybody else has moved on to something else.
8:19
Speaker 1: I just had this conversation with one of the kidd
8:21
Speaker 1: I was I'm working with where everybody's going to this
8:23
Speaker 1: big school event and I was like, do you want
8:26
Speaker 1: to go? And the kiddo was like, well, like, I
8:30
Speaker 1: don't think we need to go without our moms and dads.
8:34
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, like, you know, there's that
8:36
Speaker 1: maturity like and it's so cute, right, You're like, oh,
8:39
Speaker 1: you still want to be with your mom and dad.
8:41
Speaker 1: Like I love that, right, But then there's the other
8:44
Speaker 1: kids are ready to sort of move on, and so
8:48
Speaker 1: all those maturity things I think really come in a
8:51
Speaker 1: lot and we don't. I don't think we give them
8:54
Speaker 1: enough credence because you know, my humor, my interests, all
8:59
Speaker 1: that stuff is partly driven by like where I am
9:03
Speaker 1: in the in the developmental cycle.
9:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that makes parents really desperate to
9:11
Speaker 2: try to help their kids fit. Yes, so we end
9:14
Speaker 2: up trying to do the thing that we don't want
9:16
Speaker 2: to do because we just want them to have friends.
9:19
Speaker 2: We just want them to, you know, be accepted. My
9:23
Speaker 2: own neurodiversion kid was super hyperactive when he was little,
9:29
Speaker 2: I mean just overwhelmingly hyper active, and so kids would
9:33
Speaker 2: very quickly tire of being around him, and it was
9:37
Speaker 2: so hard to watch. But at the same time, like,
9:42
Speaker 2: you're not going to change that energy level. There are
9:46
Speaker 2: things that you know, you can teach all the skills
9:49
Speaker 2: in the world, but if they're still going one hundred
9:50
Speaker 2: miles an hour, that's still going to be too much
9:52
Speaker 2: for some people, right, That's still going to be really difficult.
9:57
Speaker 2: And then I think that reduce this is that pool
10:01
Speaker 2: of possible friends sometimes and like I get the internal
10:06
Speaker 2: emotional struggle of a parent, what would you say to
10:10
Speaker 2: that parent?
10:12
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm so glad you asked, because I was like
10:14
Speaker 1: dying to tell you. Okay, So there's a couple things.
10:17
Speaker 1: I totally want to acknowledge that struggle, and I want
10:20
Speaker 1: to acknowledge that it's hard to watch these things. You know,
10:24
Speaker 1: my kids are a little older now, but I have moments.
10:28
Speaker 1: I was just telling my husband this. I was on
10:30
Speaker 1: a plane and I was in an airport last weekend
10:33
Speaker 1: and I was watching some kids and I was watching.
10:36
Speaker 1: You know, I'll be at school pickup and I'll watch
10:39
Speaker 1: the way other kids react to someone who I know
10:41
Speaker 1: is a wonderful kid, and it like breaks my heart.
10:44
Speaker 1: So they're not even my kid, and I'm like dying
10:47
Speaker 1: for them.
10:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's a couple things.
10:50
Speaker 1: One one of the things I talk about in friendship
10:53
Speaker 1: Skills for neurodivergin adults applies to kids, which is we
10:58
Speaker 1: find our people differently, and we friend differently. And I
11:02
Speaker 1: think the more we embrace our brain and know about it,
11:06
Speaker 1: the better. So if I were working with that hyperactive kiddo,
11:10
Speaker 1: I would actually say he needs to make friends on
11:14
Speaker 1: the move, right, Like, yeah, let's not put him in
11:18
Speaker 1: a library, right, Let's not put him in activities where
11:23
Speaker 1: his movement and his hyperactivity is a detriment. Let's put
11:28
Speaker 1: him in frisbee and you know, soccer and activities where
11:34
Speaker 1: you're outside and how loud you are, it doesn't matter,
11:37
Speaker 1: and we will have to cross a bridge at some
11:40
Speaker 1: point of the connection and intimacy that we want him
11:43
Speaker 1: to have, which doesn't always occur when you're on the move.
11:48
Speaker 3: But here's my thing.
11:49
Speaker 1: So much of our burden and why friendship is hard
11:52
Speaker 1: into adulthood comes from the shame cycle and the lack
11:56
Speaker 1: of confidence.
11:58
Speaker 3: So I would chew who.
12:00
Speaker 1: For that hyperactive child to have friends and confidence and
12:04
Speaker 1: then help him learn to form a bond and have
12:08
Speaker 1: more you know, close knit friends and more close conversations
12:13
Speaker 1: than to choose for him to be alone. Because if
12:14
Speaker 1: he's alone, his confidence sinks, he doesn't feel good about himself.
12:19
Speaker 1: And the fact is you are who you are, right,
12:23
Speaker 1: he's on the move, awesome, Right. My daughter was always
12:26
Speaker 1: on the move, That's how she was to I probably
12:30
Speaker 1: was on the move right like I was a girl,
12:32
Speaker 1: So I didn't have that same context. And you know,
12:36
Speaker 1: the eighties, we were socialized a certain way, but I
12:40
Speaker 1: definitely cannot recognize that just as if a kid is
12:43
Speaker 1: more bookish or more quiet, or more introverted, we're not
12:48
Speaker 1: going to socialize them like an extrovert. It doesn't make
12:51
Speaker 1: any sense. They're going to choose activities that work for
12:55
Speaker 1: them and work with their interest. And that's the other thing.
12:58
Speaker 1: Interest is so are fuel. And I think we don't
13:01
Speaker 1: talk about enough that when we're bored, we don't always
13:05
Speaker 1: do the things we want to do. We don't always
13:07
Speaker 1: make the choices we want to make. So if we
13:09
Speaker 1: socialize either of these kids in a way that fits
13:12
Speaker 1: with the way they want to be and their interests
13:15
Speaker 1: and their passions, they're going to find their people much
13:20
Speaker 1: better than if we're like you have to quiet down,
13:23
Speaker 1: you have to pipe up.
13:25
Speaker 3: Which was how we were socially.
13:26
Speaker 1: You know, it's the old way of thinking.
13:28
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
13:29
Speaker 2: Yeah. The old way was you need to fit in.
13:32
Speaker 2: You need to fit in, You need to be like
13:33
Speaker 2: everybody else, everybody needs to be the same. Yeah.
13:36
Speaker 1: And the thing about fitting in, I have this new analogy, Penny,
13:39
Speaker 1: and you tell me what you think of us. You
13:40
Speaker 1: might be like, no, this is not good, I'm going
13:42
Speaker 1: to cut it.
13:43
Speaker 4: No.
13:44
Speaker 1: I think what happens with fitting in is that we
13:48
Speaker 1: want belonging and we want close friendships. But we're cooking
13:53
Speaker 1: with the ingredients for corn bread and expecting to get cookies.
13:57
Speaker 1: We're doing everything to sort of press ourselves and to
14:02
Speaker 1: sort of fit in and pretend we like things we
14:05
Speaker 1: don't like, and you know, pretend we're not hyperactive, and
14:09
Speaker 1: then we don't get a good result and we're shocked.
14:13
Speaker 1: And this is no shade on anyone, because I definitely
14:16
Speaker 1: was raised with this. But then we don't get what
14:19
Speaker 1: we want, which is belonging. And it's what even little
14:22
Speaker 1: kids want. Little kids will say to me, I want
14:24
Speaker 1: to have close friends. Yeah, like a five year old
14:28
Speaker 1: knows that.
14:29
Speaker 2: That sense of belonging is everything. I think it's everything
14:33
Speaker 2: for human beings in general. Like, you know, if we
14:37
Speaker 2: all had a really good sense of belonging, I think
14:39
Speaker 2: the world would be a different place. Yes, And you know,
14:42
Speaker 2: I just think it's like that ultimate need. Really, I'm
15:13
Speaker 2: going to pivot a little bit too. Like young adults
15:16
Speaker 2: and older adults too. We have a lot of parents
15:18
Speaker 2: who are also nerd hers who listen right, and I
15:21
Speaker 2: have two young adults, and what we are finding is
15:25
Speaker 2: that it's really hard to find your people At that
15:29
Speaker 2: point you lose touch with like high school friends, and
15:34
Speaker 2: then what do you have? Right, Like, we've been going
15:38
Speaker 2: around and around in our own house, like trying to
15:40
Speaker 2: come up with ideas where do you find your people?
15:43
Speaker 2: Where could you go? What could you do? And we
15:45
Speaker 2: don't live in like a super big city or anything,
15:48
Speaker 2: and so there's limited opportunities. And I wonder if you
15:52
Speaker 2: have some wisdom around that, like when it's difficult, because
15:58
Speaker 2: you do start to yourself, right, you do start to
16:01
Speaker 2: think no one wants me, nobody wants to me around me,
16:05
Speaker 2: there is no place where I belong, and then that
16:07
Speaker 2: makes everything worse. So how do we sort of help
16:11
Speaker 2: them and also prevent that negative narrative as much as
16:15
Speaker 2: possible to you?
16:17
Speaker 1: So there's a few things. So I have a whole
16:21
Speaker 1: section on finding your people and looking for your people
16:23
Speaker 1: and who are your people? And so I would encourage
16:25
Speaker 1: people to buy the book and do that exercise because
16:28
Speaker 1: I had this.
16:29
Speaker 3: Realization the other day.
16:30
Speaker 1: Some of my clients are dating young adult and adult
16:33
Speaker 1: clients and they wanted me to help them. And I
16:36
Speaker 1: met with a couple matchmakers and I got advice, and
16:38
Speaker 1: I had this realization, like when we date, we spend
16:42
Speaker 1: all this time thinking about our person and what we want,
16:44
Speaker 1: and every time they go on a date, we like
16:46
Speaker 1: adjust their hinge profile. But yet for friendship, we don't
16:51
Speaker 1: really pause and think about like who are my people?
16:54
Speaker 1: So I would encourage people to do that. I think again,
16:58
Speaker 1: interest is our fuel, and I think we need to
17:00
Speaker 1: join high interest, highly interactive activities now that might also
17:08
Speaker 1: be online, right, And this is a decision each individual
17:11
Speaker 1: has to make. I had a group that I would
17:14
Speaker 1: go into every month with adults and I would help
17:16
Speaker 1: them with friendship. And one of the folks realized that
17:20
Speaker 1: they loved things that weren't in their local community. And
17:23
Speaker 1: when they went to an activity surrounding it was like
17:26
Speaker 1: bird watching, they met someone instantly, they spent the whole
17:30
Speaker 1: day together, and then they kept in touch and they
17:32
Speaker 1: had this like instant connection, and.
17:36
Speaker 3: They decided, like I would rather.
17:38
Speaker 1: Like get on a train and go an hour to
17:41
Speaker 1: meet up with this person and then zoom with them
17:43
Speaker 1: in between, then to not feel that connection.
17:47
Speaker 3: Right.
17:48
Speaker 1: So this is also where I want us to like
17:50
Speaker 1: go outside the box a little bit, because I think
17:55
Speaker 1: that sometimes because of the way we were raised or
17:57
Speaker 1: just whatever we say well it has to be in person. Well,
18:02
Speaker 1: it might be that you have a lack of confidence.
18:04
Speaker 1: So you start online with a group of you know,
18:07
Speaker 1: shared interests and people who you really click with, and
18:10
Speaker 1: then as you get more confident, you say, you know what,
18:12
Speaker 1: there's a there's a group like this in person, a
18:15
Speaker 1: town over. Now I feel a little better about myself,
18:18
Speaker 1: and now I'm going to go there. When I say
18:20
Speaker 1: highly interactive, the reason I say that is if you
18:24
Speaker 1: go and you don't get to talk to anyone, then
18:26
Speaker 1: you can't make friends. So I have a whole thing
18:29
Speaker 1: in the book about like basically, you know, ask questions
18:33
Speaker 1: and also test things out. Go as like a you know,
18:37
Speaker 1: you're testing things out, You're you know, you're looking at things.
18:41
Speaker 1: You're sort of interviewing the group and interviewing the environment
18:45
Speaker 1: instead of like, oh, I have to accept this. If
18:48
Speaker 1: you can't talk to anybody, you can't make friends. So
18:51
Speaker 1: I think that my biggest advice for young adults is
18:55
Speaker 1: that funnel that we had in school is gone. But
18:59
Speaker 1: I'm going to go out on a limb here and
19:01
Speaker 1: say a lot of people who talk to me even
19:03
Speaker 1: though they had that funnel of like oh, instantly you're
19:06
Speaker 1: with people your age, they didn't actually find their people.
19:10
Speaker 1: So I think that we have to build a new
19:13
Speaker 1: sort of place, which is here's my interest, here's the
19:17
Speaker 1: things I like to do with my time, Here's what
19:20
Speaker 1: I want out of friendship. Where are the places that
19:24
Speaker 1: I could go and meet people like that? And one
19:28
Speaker 1: of my biggest tips is volunteering.
19:31
Speaker 2: That's what I was thinking about the other day.
19:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of times you're filtering by like, oh,
19:35
Speaker 1: I want to do with dogs, So then I'm meeting
19:37
Speaker 1: people who like dogs, you know, I want to do
19:40
Speaker 1: with you know, building habitat for humanity, Like I've had
19:44
Speaker 1: so many people meet people because you're building a house
19:47
Speaker 1: for like ever and ever. So I think that's like
19:50
Speaker 1: there's ways to do this. We just have to, I think,
19:53
Speaker 1: have a new landscape because this sort of school landscape
19:57
Speaker 1: is gone.
19:59
Speaker 2: Choosing your people instead of having your people choosen for you.
20:03
Speaker 2: I mean that's basically the difference. Right in school, you're
20:06
Speaker 2: just put in a place with other kids who are
20:09
Speaker 2: just put in that same place, and there may be
20:12
Speaker 2: no shared interest whatsoever, there may be no connection there.
20:16
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I think a lot of young adults
20:19
Speaker 2: start to find their tribe outside of school because of that,
20:24
Speaker 2: because they can choose what they're doing, what they're interested in.
20:33
Speaker 1: Hi.
20:33
Speaker 4: I'm Noriene Russell, founder of Russell Coaching for Students. If
20:37
Speaker 4: you're the parent of a bright student who just isn't
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Speaker 4: reaching their potential at school, you're not alone. Many students
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Speaker 4: with ADHD, autism, anxiety, and learning differences struggle not because
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Speaker 4: they aren't capable, but because they haven't yet learned skills
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Speaker 4: like organization, time management, and studying. The families we work
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Speaker 4: with often come to us after they've tried tutoring, schools, sports,
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Speaker 4: and other resources, but their child still isn't successful. At
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Speaker 4: Russell Coaching, we work one on one with students to
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Speaker 4: build executive functioning and academic skills and strengthen motivation so
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Speaker 4: students can succeed academically and be more confident. When students
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Speaker 4: learn how to plan, stay focused, and advocate for themselves,
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Speaker 4: everything starts to change, not just grades, but their self
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Speaker 4: esteem and their relationship with you their parents. If you
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Speaker 4: know your child is capable of more, but motivation or
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Speaker 4: bad habits are a struggle, you don't have to solve
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Speaker 4: this alone. We'd love to help visit russellcoaching dot Com
21:38
Speaker 4: to schedule complimentary call with me and find the right
21:41
Speaker 4: program for your student and mention the code Penny to
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Speaker 4: receive one hundred dollars off your intake and ten percent
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Speaker 4: off your first three months of coaching. Welcome to Russell Coaching.
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Speaker 2: What advice do you have for introverts? I myself have
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Speaker 2: social anxiety. Very introverted peopling is extremely just feels unsafe
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Speaker 2: to me. Honestly, my brain says that it's just not
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Speaker 2: a safe thing to do, right. And I've learned over
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Speaker 2: the years obviously to manage that and to do more
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Speaker 2: and not like isolate myself as much. But I think
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Speaker 2: there are a lot of neurodivergent folks who are also
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Speaker 2: very introverted. I have parents who will say to me, like,
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Speaker 2: my teenager never goes out of the house and does
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Speaker 2: anything with other people, and I'm so worried about them
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Speaker 2: socially and that they don't have any friends. But they
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Speaker 2: have friends online, they have friends at school that they
22:43
Speaker 2: talk to and it's not a problem for them. Like
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Speaker 2: if they're happy, do we still push, you know? How
22:51
Speaker 2: do we accept? Maybe there's a different level.
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Speaker 1: Right, Okay, I'm writing down push your.
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Speaker 2: Face is sort of lighting up.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I'm so excited about this topic.
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Speaker 3: Okay, So I.
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Speaker 1: Want to sort of shout out to introverts and a
23:05
Speaker 1: lot of our AUDHD people feel this way, like I
23:09
Speaker 1: think that the way we were told to socialize, and
23:13
Speaker 1: also I think the way the media portrays things. So
23:16
Speaker 1: I'm going to indict the media here is very much
23:19
Speaker 1: like as if we're all extroverts. I live with an
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Speaker 1: extreme extrovert. My husband, like, you cannot leave a party.
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Speaker 1: He just wants to talk to everybody. I am sort
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Speaker 1: of in between, and I totally relate to the introverts.
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Speaker 1: My mother's also an extreme introvert, and I grew up
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Speaker 1: with someone who was super sky and did have social
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Speaker 1: anxiety and was like, I'm not doing that.
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Speaker 3: Like we've never had a.
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Speaker 1: Birthday party for her because she doesn't want people looking
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Speaker 1: at her, and my husband would be like, please look
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Speaker 1: at me, right, yeah, And I think that's the thing.
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Speaker 1: We have to know who we are, and so you're
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Speaker 1: going to socialize differently than someone who's an extreme extrovert,
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Speaker 1: and I think that's the first step. That's okay, right, Yeah, totally.
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Speaker 1: I have this whole thing in the book about filling
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Speaker 1: your social cup. Everybody has a different amount that they
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Speaker 1: need to fill their social cup. And I really want
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Speaker 1: to stop us feeling like we have to do certain
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Speaker 1: things and really move into what is the choice now.
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Speaker 1: I also provide you with information because I think there's
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Speaker 1: a place at which we sort of have fears and
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Speaker 1: we kid ourselves and say well, I'm fine, when really
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Speaker 1: we're not. But I think you know, as an introvert,
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Speaker 1: you're gonna want certain spaces, You're gonna want certain safety,
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Speaker 1: especially with social anxiety. And I talk a lot about
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Speaker 1: like finding what.
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Speaker 3: Is safe for you? What is space for you?
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Speaker 1: What are the environments that you want? And I have
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Speaker 1: I love a good checklist, so I have like, here's
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Speaker 1: all the environments, like pick out what are the environments
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Speaker 1: for you? And so that goes back to the high
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Speaker 1: interest activities. Like what you want for an activity might
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Speaker 1: be an online space. What you want for an activity
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Speaker 1: might be I have a client who's going to this
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Speaker 1: cafe and you know how knitting and all that is,
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Speaker 1: Like back in even the young people are doing all that,
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Speaker 1: and like she's going and they have like this craft
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Speaker 1: stuff and they're not They're not our grandmothers, like they're
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Speaker 1: younger people, but they're doing this because it's it's very
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Speaker 1: much what they feel is a safe space. So I
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Speaker 1: think that that's possible. Okay, pushing here's the thing. We
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Speaker 1: have to find a balance. So what I worry about
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Speaker 1: with not seeing friends outside of school is that the
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Speaker 1: friends start to coalesce and do things, and then you're
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Speaker 1: left out. And then sometimes you're left out at school.
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Speaker 1: There's something that happens socially when we're together where you know,
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Speaker 1: we plan the next thing, right, Yeah, but I also
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Speaker 1: want to be sensitive to the fact that nerdivergent teenagers,
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Speaker 1: young adults like.
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Speaker 3: It takes a lot out of us.
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Speaker 1: The executive function of school and life takes a lot
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Speaker 1: out of us, and we can't always do everything. I
26:09
Speaker 1: have a client who is very involved with an activity
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Speaker 1: that's like Friday nights and Saturday all day, and he
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Speaker 1: was like, please don't push me to do something Saturday night.
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Speaker 1: After I've been on all Saturday day, I've been with
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Speaker 1: my friends, I've been with my people, I've been out
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Speaker 1: Friday night. Not only does it take me longer to
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Speaker 1: do my school work, which is I think is something
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Speaker 1: we don't talk about a lot with in our divergent kids,
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Speaker 1: but is a fact, but like I'm tapped out, my
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Speaker 1: energy is sap. So I think we have to have
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Speaker 1: those conversations and like find balance. You know, when do
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Speaker 1: you opt out? How much are you giving up? I
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Speaker 1: would say, if you never see friends outside of school,
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Speaker 1: I want you to move more into the sometimes league.
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Speaker 1: I also want to say this, sometimes kids will say
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Speaker 1: I have friends at school, I'm good, but what they
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Speaker 1: have are acquaintances and moving to seeing them is a
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Speaker 1: big leap. So as parents, I think this happened during
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Speaker 1: the pandemic. Parents were like, why don't you, you know,
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Speaker 1: reach out to so and so. And what I found
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Speaker 1: with a lot of my neurodivergent clients and people talking
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Speaker 1: to me was they didn't because they didn't have enough
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Speaker 1: of a relationship. Maybe they didn't even have that kid's
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Speaker 1: you know, digits.
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Speaker 3: So I want to.
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Speaker 1: Say that, like, as you approach it as a parent,
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Speaker 1: understand they may not feel comfortable and it may be
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Speaker 1: that we need to put them in situations where they
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Speaker 1: see those people more and build the relationship more in
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Speaker 1: like an activity, and then they can bridge into we
27:47
Speaker 1: just go and hang out. I think we forget about that,
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Speaker 1: and teenagers don't tend to tell us. They tend to
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Speaker 1: tell us with their resistance and their you know, telling
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Speaker 1: us no versus saying, listen, I don't know this person
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Speaker 1: well enough to do that. You're looking for a huge leap.
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Speaker 1: Does that make sense, Penny, with what you're seeing?
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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, completely. And you know, when we are talking
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Speaker 2: with our neurodiversion kids, we have to be really clear,
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Speaker 2: Like you're just describing my idea of having friends and
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Speaker 2: their idea of having friends could be two totally different things.
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Speaker 2: It could really be acquaintance and not actual friendship. And
28:29
Speaker 2: it reminds me that there have been many studies that
28:34
Speaker 2: have shown that it's the quality of connection, not the
28:39
Speaker 2: volume of friends that is important. And so your kid
28:43
Speaker 2: doesn't have to have ten or twenty friends. They need
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Speaker 2: one or two really good connections and that's what's really
28:51
Speaker 2: going to be most valuable to their life. And I
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Speaker 2: remember my own kid in middle school joined robotics club
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Speaker 2: after school loved robotics, which was really difficult because we
29:06
Speaker 2: didn't do well at school. We had school avoidance, We
29:09
Speaker 2: already didn't want to be there, we were already spent
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Speaker 2: but it was interested enough to check it out right,
29:16
Speaker 2: to stay for one day and check it out and
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Speaker 2: found his people. And I remember distinctly one day he
29:24
Speaker 2: got in the car at pickup, just regular everyday pick up,
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Speaker 2: not robotics, and he said, do you know what it's
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Speaker 2: like to have real friends? I finally have real friends.
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Speaker 2: I was like, tell me, tell me what it's like.
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Speaker 2: He said, you know, in the hallway when they come
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Speaker 2: up to you and they talked to you before you
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Speaker 2: even knew they were there, because they want to talk
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Speaker 2: to you.
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Speaker 3: I know.
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Speaker 2: I cried like a baby because it was like, finally.
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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm glad that I'm having like I'm having the
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Speaker 1: re actions even my kids.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was beautiful. It was beautiful. But it took
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Speaker 2: until like that benh grade, like a long time of
30:04
Speaker 2: being put with kids, and we tried different things like
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Speaker 2: Scouts and other stuff and just didn't find his people yet.
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Speaker 2: But in robotics he found his people. I talked to
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Speaker 2: a lot of parents who have exact same like, yeah,
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Speaker 2: robotics was it, Like you know, so many of our
30:20
Speaker 2: kids are into science and electronics and stuff, and so
30:23
Speaker 2: that's a good one, but like finding that stuff.
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Speaker 1: Well, and that's why I had such a reaction because
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Speaker 1: I've had so many clients, and you know, every place
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Speaker 1: is different. But in my town, they don't start robotics
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Speaker 1: till middle school. And I know someone in the next
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Speaker 1: town over who is an engineer and like a world
30:41
Speaker 1: class engineer and who started it for elementary but like,
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Speaker 1: I'm not a world class engineer. I can't even build
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Speaker 1: an Ikea bookshelf, so I don't think I could be
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Speaker 1: that person. But I think that's one of the struggles,
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Speaker 1: is that, you know, that's what I want us to abandon.
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Speaker 1: Like a lot of ADHD kids don't do well in Scouts.
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Speaker 1: I'm totally pro Scout. Like my nephew is an Eagle Scout,
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Speaker 1: Like he got into college partly because he did all
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Speaker 1: this stuff. But that's not like my son would never
31:09
Speaker 1: it would never.
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Speaker 3: Be his people. He's the robotics kid, he's.
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Speaker 1: The band kid. So I think we have to remember also,
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Speaker 1: if I'm different than my kid, honor what the kid is, right,
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Speaker 1: whatever age they are, whoever they are, that's who they are.
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Speaker 3: And you know, just.
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Speaker 1: Because you played football or you did track, doesn't mean
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Speaker 1: although the track is a nice group of kids, a
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Speaker 1: lot of times.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's the other thing.
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Speaker 1: Look in your community, whatever age they are, right, if
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Speaker 1: they're little, if they're middle, if they're young adult, what
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Speaker 1: are the nicer folks? You know? For me, it was drama.
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Speaker 1: The drama kids were so nice to me. And you know,
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Speaker 1: it actually was like hours of my day where I
31:51
Speaker 1: wasn't bullied because that they just even in elementary school,
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Speaker 1: it was not that crowd. And you know, sometimes other
31:58
Speaker 1: siblings can tell you that. By the way, cousins, teachers,
32:03
Speaker 1: you know, who are the groups of kids where there
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Speaker 1: is more acceptance, there is more belonging. Like your son said,
32:10
Speaker 1: they all pal around together, and that's a great conduit,
32:15
Speaker 1: and especially for that kid who you feel.
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Speaker 3: Like you have to push.
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Speaker 1: I also love to do things with the families I
32:22
Speaker 1: work with where I'm like, let's pick some things. I'm
32:26
Speaker 1: not asking you to be twenty four to seven engaged,
32:29
Speaker 1: but let's pick some things where you might find your
32:31
Speaker 1: people and like get in a regular pattern of like
32:35
Speaker 1: we try stuff and we try it for like six months,
32:38
Speaker 1: not for like two sessions, and that's who we are. Like,
32:42
Speaker 1: if you have little ones and you're listening to this,
32:44
Speaker 1: My biggest advice is don't force it, but like almost
32:48
Speaker 1: present it, like you know how, and sometimes you'd be
32:50
Speaker 1: like do you want.
32:51
Speaker 3: This dress or this dress?
32:52
Speaker 1: You know, like have them look at some different ways,
32:56
Speaker 1: but know who they are. My daughter left ballet, which
33:00
Speaker 1: was very structured, and she's very hyperactive and she's very
33:03
Speaker 1: out about her ADHD. She doesn't mind me talking about it.
33:06
Speaker 1: And we did Irish Step because it was so energetic, right,
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Speaker 1: and it was a great group of kids and there's
33:14
Speaker 1: boys and there's girls, and it was a meritocracy, like
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Speaker 1: it was about whether you were good or whatever. But
33:20
Speaker 1: even the kids who weren't that good were very much
33:23
Speaker 1: accepted in the group. If you go and you don't
33:26
Speaker 1: see that dynamic, and you see a dynamic that's very toxic, don't,
33:30
Speaker 1: as a parent be afraid to listen to your kid
33:33
Speaker 1: and say, I know people worship this, but it's not
33:36
Speaker 1: a great dynamic, and it's especially not a great dynamic
33:39
Speaker 1: for somebody who isn't necessarily accepted as easily. And the
33:45
Speaker 1: same with college, you know, just because something's highly rated.
33:49
Speaker 1: I understand the ratings things. I was raised on it,
33:52
Speaker 1: but like, if it's not the right place for your kid,
33:56
Speaker 1: then it's not their people. Then they're not going to
33:58
Speaker 1: be happy. If they're a robot, they're probably not going
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Speaker 1: to go to a school with you know, no other
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Speaker 1: robotics kids.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is about finding their people, absolutely, and
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Speaker 2: I think for all of us, like you know, even
34:11
Speaker 2: if we're not neurodivergent, that's where we're gonna find the
34:16
Speaker 2: most solid connections, right Like, we're gonna figure that out
34:22
Speaker 2: by finding people with similar interests or something, you know
34:27
Speaker 2: that cannect us. I know we could talk about this
34:30
Speaker 2: for days and days and days and still not get
34:32
Speaker 2: tell it. We're already out of time. So tell everybody
34:37
Speaker 2: where they can get the book. I know it just published.
34:39
Speaker 2: As this comes out, for everybody to listen to you
34:43
Speaker 2: where they can find you online and I will link
34:45
Speaker 2: all that up as well for everyone.
34:48
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you so much for having me. If you
34:51
Speaker 1: follow me on Instagram at author Caroline m I'm doing
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Speaker 1: a ton of webinars and q and a's and different
34:59
Speaker 1: things to do the book launch, so come please ask
35:02
Speaker 1: me questions.
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Speaker 3: I love helping folks with.
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Speaker 1: Stuff, so it's like my joy and the book will
35:09
Speaker 1: be found anywhere books are sold. I so appreciate people
35:13
Speaker 1: supporting it. I really use the tips in this book.
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Speaker 3: For all ages.
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Speaker 1: I wanted to write a book for teens and college students,
35:20
Speaker 1: but it's just too narrow window. Publishers don't really love it.
35:24
Speaker 1: But those tips are folded in. So if you have
35:27
Speaker 1: a young adult, I would definitely say this works for them.
35:31
Speaker 1: Or if you're an adult and you just never found
35:33
Speaker 1: your people, please it's possible. Yeah, it's totally possible.
35:37
Speaker 2: Love that. And by purchasing books, we are supporting the work.
35:43
Speaker 2: We're continuing to allow folks like Caroline to do the
35:47
Speaker 2: work to help people, right, So it's so important, but
35:52
Speaker 2: also just connecting. I get your emails, and I learned
35:58
Speaker 2: so much from the emails, so I encourage people to subscribe,
36:02
Speaker 2: like there's so much goodness and you're just such a
36:04
Speaker 2: lovely human. So I know that if people reach out
36:08
Speaker 2: or pull in your work, that is going to help
36:12
Speaker 2: them and their families. So I appreciate you so much, Caroline,
36:16
Speaker 2: and thank you for sharing some of your time and
36:19
Speaker 2: wisdom with us.
36:20
Speaker 1: Thank you, and you are always one of my favorite people.
36:23
Speaker 1: And sometimes if I disappear and go away to write
36:26
Speaker 1: a book, no, that.
36:26
Speaker 2: Still yes, well, I will see everybody next time. Take
36:31
Speaker 2: good care. I see you. You're doing hard and meaningful
36:36
Speaker 2: work and you don't have to do it alone. If
36:39
Speaker 2: you found this episode helpful, share it with someone who
36:42
Speaker 2: needs it and leave a quick review so others can
36:45
Speaker 2: find this support too. When you're ready for next steps,
36:49
Speaker 2: the Regulated Kid's Project is here with the tools, coaching,
36:53
Speaker 2: and community to help you raise a more regulated, resilient child.
36:58
Speaker 2: Get more info at regular Lady Kids dot com m
37:02
Speaker 2: H m hm