Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / The Big Issues - Tuesday 16 March 2021

Transcript

The Big Issues - Tuesday 16 March 2021 · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Three sixty with Katie Wolf thanks to Joyce Main, Dowin
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Homes and Stuart Highway Beerromer.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: What a morning we've had so far, and it's just
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: about to get better because it is Tuesday morning, not
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Wednesday like I've say from last month. And joining us
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: in the studio for the Big Issues brought to you
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: by Kolado Community Association, an Aboriginal loaned operated and community
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: lead organization from the top End to Tenant Creek. Damian
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Hale and Dave Tolner.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Good morning, morning Wolf.
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: Great to be with you, Katie.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: And can I just say that Dave Tolner has walked
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: in with a red shirt on that says Damien Hale work.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know that's a good thing, Katie.
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: Look are you.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: A statement? When I get out of here.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: I want to put it out there now.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: I don't care.
• 0:52
  Speaker 5: I seriously don't care what everyone says about the Blake.
• 0:56
  Speaker 5: I think he's a good mate and I'll promote you.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: And it's an election council.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: It's an election year for counsel.
• 1:06
  Speaker 5: You know, all those knockers out there bear and I'm
• 1:11
  Speaker 5: wearing a Dame In Haile shirt.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: I just go out and behave badly because people could
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: just be confused.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: And that's exactly right. It sort of gives good cover, doesn't.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: He looks good in red and we always knew that
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: he was one of ours, and he infiltrated, he was
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: super salesman, and he infiltrated the Liberal Party. And didn't
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: he do a good job for us?
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, dear man, it's always good fun when we're in
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: here covering the big issues. I do want to talk about, Well,
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: this report on a current affair overnight unfortunately showed Alice
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: Springs in all.
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: Of its well, non glory. It was horrific.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: You know, there's horrendous scenes out of Alice moment and
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: to see it all in one sort of one news
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  Speaker 2: report like that, I think really hit the nail on
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: the head of exactly what those residents of Alice Springs
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: have been trying to portray for quite some time now.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you both watched it, but I
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: think you can probably get the gist of how it
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: went down if you didn't see it.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: There was some poor behavior in amongst that lot. And
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: you know, as a territory, and you know, we've been
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: here since nineteen seventy four my family, and you know,
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: I was just shocked at the level of violence and
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: the age of the combatants and kids out on the
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: streets at that hour, and the lack of respect for
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: law and order was quite evident that you know, the
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: police were under attack as well with different parts of
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: the parts of the report, the use of weapons, the
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: guy with the shovel, like he could have easily just
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: killed someone in that instance. And also you know shop
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: owners that the town looks as though it's boarded up,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: as if there's a hurricane coming into the East coast
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: of America, where you see the pictures of all the
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: glass and people not replacing glass in their businesses. I
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: was very confronting. I found it very confronted.
• 3:14
  Speaker 5: Why people sort of find it confronting to me, you know,
• 3:19
  Speaker 5: it's it's a natural outcome of what you get from
• 3:21
  Speaker 5: a labor government. You know, the fact is they are
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: soft on crime. It's it's in their DNA. Every opportunity
• 3:28
  Speaker 5: they have, they're trying to find ways to release prisoners
• 3:30
  Speaker 5: into the community. The last coronavirus sing in Victoria talking
• 3:34
  Speaker 5: about trying to release all the prisoners, Michael Gunner was
• 3:37
  Speaker 5: very quick to release the kids from don Dale following
• 3:41
  Speaker 5: the recommendations from that.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: Inquiry.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 3:47
  Speaker 5: It's in there Royal Commission whatever. But I mean, it
• 3:51
  Speaker 5: was a funny one failed you know, it was a
• 3:55
  Speaker 5: failed outcome. It really was. It was a hatchet job
• 3:57
  Speaker 5: by the ABC at the start. No one was really
• 4:01
  Speaker 5: interested in the facts and the number one recommendation was
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: released these kids out in the community, and you sit
• 4:06
  Speaker 5: there and you go, well, what about the community. Does
• 4:08
  Speaker 5: anyone care that these people are being released back to
• 4:12
  Speaker 5: where they came from not having completed a sentence. These
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: are some of the worst criminals we had, but you know,
• 4:17
  Speaker 5: everybody seem to think, oh, it's okay, just let them out.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Like the biggest thing I've got to say for me
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: after watching it last night, because we've been talking about
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: this for months, like honestly, it's probably been over a year.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: We've been catching up with people in Alice Springs and
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: hearing their concerns. There's been some real tragedy as well
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: out of Alice Springs, you know, as we've spoken about previously.
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  Speaker 2: But the biggest thing for me from this point was
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: how do we actually start making some changes or start doing.
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: Something to fix it, and I know the Chief Minister
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: was on the.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: Show yesterday and he said that we've got twenty nine
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: police officers, I believe new recruits who are going to
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: be going straight down to Alice to be stationed there.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: There's going to be eleven Aboriginal Police community officers who'll
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: be there, and in other communities surrounding there's also going
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: to be eleven auxiliaries. So we're talking about sort of
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: fifty additional resources going.
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: To as Codie.
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: We all know that's right.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: We all know who the criminals are.
• 5:11
  Speaker 5: There's the same people time and time and time again,
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: and the system under Labor just let them. Let them go,
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: you know, they walk out of court snubbing their nase
• 5:20
  Speaker 5: at law and authority, you know, at the end of
• 5:23
  Speaker 5: the day, and then you sit there and you say
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: what you're antwer more police. We'll come out of luck
• 5:28
  Speaker 5: and some people up who actually commit some crimes.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Well, the courts actually don't come under the Labor Party
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: for starters.
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: And the Labor Party sets the rules.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: To the court. Dave would like to play a blame
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: game on Labor on this, but there's also blame across
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: all levels of government and all parties. If you look
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: at who the federal government's been for over a decade,
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  Speaker 1: we've had the intervention, We've had areas of concern constantly
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: raised by elders of Aboriginal communities around the intervention and
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: the loss of their own direct action and the loss
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: of their own self determining what happens in their communities.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: And we're seeing family breakdown. And they actually looked at
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: they interviewed one of the elders there last night, I know,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: the guy, Michael Little. I think it was we've had
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: a Michael, a very respected person in Alice Springs, a
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: long term you know, a long term resident of Alice
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Springs and born there. And he made the point around
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: parental responsibility, around the fact that the family breakdown is occurring,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: and substance abuse and a life of other things. So
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: I think it's too simplistic just to go and blame
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: one political simplistic.
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: It's simplicity.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: I think we're actually though, what we've done is we've
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: reached a point now where I think that everybody sort
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: of has to, you know, to agree that's what's happening
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: at the moment. No matter how we got there, we're broken,
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: right now you know the way that it is now,
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: no matter how we got there and what steps have
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: been taken till this point, there's got to be a
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: rethink on the way that we're doing things. I actually
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: don't have the answers. I'm you know, like it's above
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: my pay bracket. But what I can see is that
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: you've got a community that's entirely broken, like it was
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: bloody sad to watch.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: You look at Alice Springs and I think that is
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: a town that I absolutely love.
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: You know, I lived there for a number of years.
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: I loved living.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: There, and there's always been issues, but not to that degree.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: You know, even last night there was two blokes that
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: were apparently set upon by between ten and fifteen youths,
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: had rocks thrown.
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: At them, six thrown at them.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: It's something that's happening on the daily for the people
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: of Alice, and I just don't know how we change
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: our mindsets to actually stop sort of thinking that the
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: way we're approaching this.
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: At the moment is okay. And like I say, I
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: don't have the answers, but we've got to change the way.
• 7:50
  Speaker 5: Part of the answer is about punishing criminals. You know
• 7:53
  Speaker 5: it's not going soft on criminals. You know, we work
• 7:56
  Speaker 5: out and we find excuse, are for excuse, are for
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: excuse about why the poor little blider do these things?
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: You know, reasons not to put them in jail, reason
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  Speaker 5: not to punish them. And they're like, the reality is,
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: you know, it's only a handful of people that are
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: causing all this mayhem. We actually have to nip it
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  Speaker 5: in the bud. There's got to be parental responsibility. I
• 8:14
  Speaker 5: agree with you, but nobody wants to make the parents responsible. Oh,
• 8:18
  Speaker 5: because you know they're marginalized already. Well, you think somewhere
• 8:22
  Speaker 5: along the line, we've just got to sit up and say, listen,
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  Speaker 5: this is out of control. It's time for some tough love.
• 8:28
  Speaker 5: We've got to start putting people in jail. You know
• 8:30
  Speaker 5: that when I say this is emblematic and it's in
• 8:33
  Speaker 5: their DNA. Look at the previous labor government. You know
• 8:36
  Speaker 5: they spent one point eight billion dollars building a luxury
• 8:40
  Speaker 5: prison for prisoners, and they spend one hundred million dollars
• 8:44
  Speaker 5: on a hospital. Now you say, where's your priorities? You know,
• 8:47
  Speaker 5: these people should have been stuck in the desert digging holes.
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: One day, filling them in the next, Painting rocks white
• 8:53
  Speaker 5: one day, painting them yellow the next. You know, how
• 8:57
  Speaker 5: about a little bit of tough love for these people?
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: The capacity in people, Dave, what do put somebody out
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: in the desert and say dig a hole and fill
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: it in? What we want to have done? Jails block.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: If you build a jail and you don't address the
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: social issues.
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: And the social enormous amount of debt, you will fill
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: the jail.
• 9:16
  Speaker 5: We've got enormous amount of off the case where you
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: can just put people and get them to work.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: Honestly, I reckon, we've got to meet somewhere in the middle. Hey,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: like we've we've got to actually get to the point
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: at the moment where you know, we know that we've
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: got some young people who are hardened criminals who are
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: doing the wrong thing. If you've got people who are
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: breaking into homes on numerous occasions, or you know, involved
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: and engaged in bad, bad behavior on numerous occasions, you've
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: got to go, Okay, we actually need to keep those
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: people off the streets.
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: We make good, but I should recommend that they will
• 9:48
  Speaker 5: be released from jail. These are some of the worst
• 9:50
  Speaker 5: criminals we've seen in society, and the recommendation from the
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: Royal Commission was to put them back into the community.
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: Well, I do think, sorry, if you.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: Just think we've got to chuck everybody in jail, there's
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: no doubt that we don't need you know, we don't
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: need to do that, but we we do need to
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: intervene with some of these kids who are seven eight
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: years old.
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: On Yeah, but this is where I'm like, this is
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: where we're at at the moment, right.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: So we've got, you know, we've got this approach where
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: we're saying, Okay, we've got to do it. We've got
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: to intervene when they're babies and we've got to make
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: sure that we're helping families. So we've got that on
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: one side. On the other side, we'll go and chuck
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: them all in jail. I you know, for me, I
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: think that there's you know that we've like I said,
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: we've got to meet somewhere in the middle where those
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: that are really doing the wrong thing do need to
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: be punished. And then if you've got six year old,
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: seven year olds who are on track to become hardened criminals,
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: we've got to try and stop them from.
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: Going on that path. However, what we're doing at the
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: moment is not working.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Well, you don't put if you jails are not a
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Swiss finishing school, all right. They don't going to jail
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: and mix with other like minded people and come out
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: as choir boys. So the model is not working with
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: the model of locking people up. Let me finish, Dave,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: the model of locking people up on four or five
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: or six times, they go in as a rock thrower,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: they come out as a break and enter, they go
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: back in as a serious assault, and then and it
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: continues to escalate. You need to have a well, that's
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: what you're advocating, Dave, to advocating up children, I'm not
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: advocating with advocating locking up children. Will be interesting to
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: see what the Commissioner comes back with tonight in regards
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: to the response his response to this, But I know
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: that it wasn't all about don Dale and all about
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: locking up kids. There was a whole raft of different
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: recommendations around family support, early intervention, all that sort of stuff,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: education for kids, better outcomes at school. If these kids
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: are not going to school all right, obviously there's something
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: wrong at home or there's something wrong at what the
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: schools are selling because they ain't buying into it, and
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: that's where we need.
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: To get people interrupt.
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: Like you know, we had a program up here called
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: Sentence to a Job, right where people would go into
• 12:04
  Speaker 5: jail and those ones that were sort of about to
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: come out, we'd place them in a job in the community,
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: somewhere in a private enterprise, and they would work there
• 12:15
  Speaker 5: until their sentence finished. And more often than not, those
• 12:18
  Speaker 5: people that came out of prison were offered employment where
• 12:21
  Speaker 5: they were working, right, And that was a wonderful program.
• 12:24
  Speaker 5: The ABC sort of used that to say, Oh, come on,
• 12:28
  Speaker 5: mister l Frink, can we come up there and do
• 12:30
  Speaker 5: a program on Sentence to a Job? As, of course
• 12:32
  Speaker 5: we now know they had no intention of doing a
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: program on sentence to a Job. They had no intention
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: of saying how wonderful the program was working, how it
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: was getting people into meaningful lives after being in prison.
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: What they did was a beat up on the children
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: in don Dale, and the result of that was that
• 12:48
  Speaker 5: we left a whole lot of them out. There was
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: no focus at all on Sentence to a Job, no
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: focus at all on how we're getting people rehabilitated into
• 12:56
  Speaker 5: the community. Whatso of it Now that program has been seized.
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: Isaiah was an expensive failure and all of a sudden
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: now we see the results in our community of what's
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: happening with all of these soft love type approaches to criminals,
• 13:10
  Speaker 5: and Codie is right, we don't have to go to
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: the ultimate extreme of Sheriff Joe in Arizona, where you
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: address them all up in pink overalls and chalm g
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: rated movies and put them in tents in the desert.
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: I mean, some of us would like to see us
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: go there on that part. Well, some of us would
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: like to, but there's got to be a middle ground.
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: There's got to be the most some sort of responsibility on.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: The most approach. In the red Damien Hale shirt I've
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: ever heard three sixty with Katie Wolf on Mixed one
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: oh four point nine Thanks to Joyce Main Darwin.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: You are listening to Mix oneow four point nine, three sixty.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: It is the Big Issues, proudly brought to you by
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Kolado Community Association, an Aboriginal owned, operated and community lead
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: organization from the top End to Tenant Creek and joining
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: me in the studio, Dave Tolna and Damian Hale, although
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: Dave's wearing Damien shirt, so you don't know who.
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: So you were here this morning.
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: Well, as I said, somebody's got to support the guy.
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: It is an election. Are crime would sort of preclude
• 14:18
  Speaker 5: anyone from labor supporting him now, so.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: He's actually recognized there is a problem, all right.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know where to go next because we know
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: that at the moment there seems to be or there's
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: a bit of arjibarji about whether there's a delay to
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: the astrosenica vaccine arriving in the Northern Territory. The Health
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: Minister confirmed with us this morning there's no delay, but
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: there's plenty of people actually questioning whether we should roll
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: out this astrosenica vaccine in the Northern Territory after well
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: the European Union's four largest nations suspended the use of
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: astrosenica after reports in some of those European countries of
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: serious side effects in recipients.
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know, do you like? The Health
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: Minister said to us this morning, she'd be happy enough.
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: To have it.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Well, I think there's been some of my twenty five
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: million doses in Europe and there's a handful, very low
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: percentage of people have experienced clotting. And where the tests
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: came back that sort of sent a few alarm bells
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: was because you know, the platelets in your blood are
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: the things that stop you from bleeding out. So if
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: you cut yourself, platelets go to the area can jeal
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: and stop you from bleeding out. So people were presenting
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: with clots but still at very low levels of platelets.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: So that's where the sort of the suspicion came a
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: hold on a second, what's going on here? Why have
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: they got low platelet counts and they're getting clotting. It
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: doesn't sort of add up. So from what I've listened
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: to today early in the morning, when I was listening
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: to certain people talk about it. In Northern European countries,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: for instance, they've got very good electronic records health records,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: so they're checking now against their records of normal type
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: trends around people getting blood plots compared to people that
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: have come at the violence vaccine. So they also had
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: the other thing they looked at was the actual batches
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: of vaccine, that is, there is there a relationship between
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: the batch that went out and the people that are
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: suffering from plining. But let's be honest, it's a very
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: very low percentage. And like everything since the pandemic started,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: most of us, probably Dave excluded, have listened to what
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: the health experts have saying. And doctor Swan, Norman Swan,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: I've thoroughly enjoyed. He's not been wrong once and he
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: has spoken about social distancing. He spoke about washing your hands,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: he spoke about all the ways that you can push back.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: He didn't support Sweden's approach like others. He didn't support
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Sweden unlike others in this room, and Sweden who went
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: with herd immunization didn't work very well. But anyway, but
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Norman Swan this morning was very clear and concise. Australians
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: do not need to panic. We will have We've got
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: the very best medical experts in Australia and I don't
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: think we need politicians going out and trying to rampale
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: it any sort of Folks.
• 17:15
  Speaker 5: I'm just curious you've done a bit of research on this.
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: I'm curious whether the Northern Europeans might have a problem
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: with the blood clotting, given the fact that their blood's
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: a lot thicker. You know, no, no, no, well, you know,
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: stuff up. No, no Damian would know this. You know,
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: coming from a tropical climate, we've got very thin blood.
• 17:39
  Speaker 5: You know, somebody cuts themselves a little scratched, they just bleed.
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: I actually don't know that's true.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: It is true, and.
• 17:47
  Speaker 5: It's why when you it's why when you go south
• 17:50
  Speaker 5: to a cold to a cold climate, you feel a
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: lot more, you feel a lot colder than the locals,
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: because your blood is a lot thinner.
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: You reckon, stop to googles, disagree.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: Who the hell's doctor gurgle? He must be a.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Muff he doesn't listen to doctor Swan.
• 18:09
  Speaker 5: I'm just curious as to whether they might be plotting
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: problems in Northern Europe because they have thicker blood, which
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: they do because it's cold to climate.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: You know, in the tropics, we have seen a blood
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: platelet counts.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: Well, I actually wonder whether it is also something to
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: do with, you know, high blood pressure and things like that.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Whether it's whether people do conditions.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: The point I was making about Northern European countries, and
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: I leave Sweden out of it because I'm not an
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: expert on Sweden.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: Where it is like, I'm.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Just saying that the point I was making is that
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: the health records are very comprehensive. So they're looking at
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: the trends of people that have had the vaccine, whether
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: or not they've got a history of clotting anyway, or
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: whether or not it's something that's come because of the vaccine.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: So I just don't think. I saw Matt Caravan out
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: this caravan this morning, non Caravan, I'll call him Matt Caravan.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: And so I've seen him out this morning very early,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: getting his getting the little fifteen minutes of fame. Let's
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: pull it all up, let's you know, typical.
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: He's a fifteen minutes cracking me.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: But that's that's what Caravan does. He's always the first one.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: And I think about labor people.
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: They don't tolerate much logic, do they logic?
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: Logic? Time much logic and logic.
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: We've run out of time this morning. It's been wonderful
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: to have you both in the studio.
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: I've home you could talk about the AFL issue, really.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: To talk about it, because that's something.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: That Haley's got a bit of knowledge on.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: What about what about the took for us?
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: Do we run out of time?
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: It's always wonderful to catch up with both of you.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: I did think it was incredibly important that we spoke
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: about the current affair from last night. I appreciate both
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: of you coming studio today. We'll catch you again next year.
• 20:02
  Speaker 5: Don one more thing, Just just a big shout out
• 20:04
  Speaker 5: there for anyone you know. He's gone off highly over
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: the years. Just remember I'm here in a red shirt
• 20:10
  Speaker 5: supporting the day.
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: I'm here for him.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: It's just cost Ronnie.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: My producer, has just confirmed that blood blood is thinner
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: in high altitude, not warm climates.
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: Apparently so getting so.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: He's up on his soap box up and his ivory
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: up in his ivory.
• 20:35
  Speaker 5: But anyone who doesn't know Ronnie is the faceless person
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: and never says anything.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: From the One thing good about whether it's stick or
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: thin blood. One thing about Tom is he's got thick skin.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: We love that he looks good. He looks good in
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: the dam in hail shirt.
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: You just have to turn your microphones down. Ami and
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: Alan Dave Tolna.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Lovely to have you both in the studio this morning.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: The Big Issues, of course, brought to you by Kolano
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Community Association