Latest / The Voyage Cast: Real Talk on Marriage, Mental Health, & Emotional Growth / What do you do when someone is thinking about suicide?

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What do you do when someone is thinking about suicide? · The Voyage Cast: Real Talk on Marriage, Mental Health, & Emotional Growth

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Voidcast.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Eddie, your host, as always, and it's September.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: And September is Suicide Prevention Month.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: And to be fair, I have said nothing about it.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and we're what, day 22, at least at the time of this recording.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I don't think that's good.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: I probably should say something.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: I feel a little guilty for not getting something out there about this.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: And part of the problem is that I just overthink so much of what I do and what I produce, which is why you don't see a ton of content for me right now.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: And also my day job is busy.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: But I've been sitting on this episode for a couple weeks, and I don't really want to sit here and lecture anybody or make some kind of major public service announcement.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I don't think I can solve that.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just gonna talk and you let me know if this is helpful.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to say up front who I think this episode is probably for.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a pastor or you lead a small group, or you're the person at your church that people come to when things are really bad, uh, this is probably for you.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean that in a really good way.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a parent whose kid goes to youth group, this is for you.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're somebody who sits in a pew on Sunday and has had thoughts about not wanting to be on this earth anymore, and you've never told anybody, this this one's probably for you as well.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: So hang on and let me get into it, uh, and maybe you can understand what I'm getting at.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: When somebody in a church uh is in real despair, the kind where they're thinking about ending their life, the first person they tell is very often not a therapist.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's a pastor or a youth leader or a woman who runs the Wednesday night thing.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's who they trust.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's who's there.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I've come to think that this is one of the most important and maybe least appreciated things that churches do.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: You are, uh, whether you signed up for it or not, kind of the front line.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: And most of you didn't get trained for it seminary from what pastors have told me, doesn't spend a ton of time uh on this unless you're really studying like specific carve-outs in your education for pastoral care or some kind of therapy.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: So you're standing in a hallway with somebody who just said something terrifying, and you reach for what you have, which is prayer, scripture, uh, community.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: And those are really good things.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Don't get me wrong.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I want to be clear that those are good, good things, and we should reach for those.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they're not nothing.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um but there's a lot of there's a lot to be desired.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: And what I want to do in this episode is hand you another tool.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's all.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Not replace anything, just add something to your toolbox.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: And we keep it simple because we don't want to give too much information, as too much information can be really overwhelming.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: So let me back up and say what I think is going on when somebody gets to the place where they're struggling like this.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think if you understand it a little bit better, the tool can make a little bit more sense.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Suicidal despair, most of the time, is pain plus a kind of narrowing of the mind.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: The pain can come from anywhere.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Loss, illness, marriage, falling apart, uh, something chemical, maybe they're using drugs and alcohol, um, a long stretch of not sleeping, uh, isolation, trauma, some combination of all of the above.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: And the narrowing is what the pain does to your thinking.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone gets funneled down.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: You lose access to the future.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: You start believing you're a burden that people would be better off without you.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that belief feels completely true, unfortunately, from the inside, even though from the outside, everyone can see that it's painfully wrong.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I can tell you, I've seen from many of my clients who've gone through loved ones who've killed themselves.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is pretty true.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: People on the people who are still alive experience the great loss.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: You matter to them more than you could possibly know.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now, these struggles are not like a character flaw.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's not often even a faith problem.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's what a mind does under great load, great duress.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: And faith does not exempt anybody from troubles.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh which if anybody's ever read the Bible would know pretty honestly.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I mean Elijah even asked God to take his life.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Job wishes he had never been born.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Moses at one point basically says that if this is how you're going to treat me, just kill me now.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Jeremiah curses the day of his birth.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: These aren't people with weak faith.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: These are like the headliners.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: These are like the big guys in the Bible.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: These are the main people, the main characters that we read about and we revere for their great faith, but they struggle desperately.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And what I find interesting, and I'm not a theologian, so take this for what it's worth, okay, is what God does with Elijah.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: He feeds him, lets him sleep twice, and then later there's a conversation about the still small voice.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think that order matters.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: The practical care comes first, the meaning comes after.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: When the guy can actually hear it, right?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: You can't hear anything when you're super narrow-minded and your basic needs are not covered.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's not God skipping the spiritual part, that's God knowing what the body and mind need first.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: So he let him sleep, he feeds him, and then the conversation happens.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess that's my whole argument, if I'm honest.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Faith and treatment aren't competing for the same slot.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Therapy is not a substitute for God, and God is not a substitute for therapy.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think God works through therapy, if I'm being honest about it.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe he can work through medications or other kinds of plans for safety.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So let's not make it one thing or the other.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the thing that church does that a clinic can't.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Church can bring presents.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: They can show up at somebody's house, meals, rides, sitting with somebody, you know, on some terrible night for no good reason.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Being the people who notice when somebody stops coming.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: I, on the other hand, can only see a client for an hour a week.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: You have got them the other 167 hours.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's not a lesser role.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's the thing that keeps people connected while the treatment does it does its work if it's gonna work.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: The two together are certainly a lot stronger than one sitting alone.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Alright, so here's a basic tool, okay?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Be direct about your questions.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um do not ask, are you okay?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: It might be fine initially, but let's move on to the next thing.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because every everybody says, Are you okay?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Try something like this.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: Are you thinking about killing yourself?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Or have you been th having thoughts of suicide?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Plain words.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: I know that feels brutal for a lot of you out there.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: I know a lot of you are afraid that asking it will actually put the idea in the person's head, but the research actually supports the opposite of that.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: The research is pretty consistent on this.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: It gives somebody an opportunity to say something they've been carrying alone for a very long time.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, from a pastor, that question might land better than it does coming from me.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're the one they already trust.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: If the answer is yes, here's what you do.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: First and foremost, try everything you can not to panic.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't have to have a speech ready.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Stay.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Say something like, as an example, thank you for telling me.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going anywhere.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: You don't promise to keep it a secret because you can't.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you shouldn't.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: You ask if they're safe right now, tonight.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: If they're not, you don't leave them alone.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you do the next best thing, which is called X988.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's the number now.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's nationwide.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: Here in Colorado, it's uh the state crisis line too, so it's it's just one number to remember, 988.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then the next couple of days, you help them get in front of a clinician.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe it's hospitalization, maybe they need that.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Sit with them while they make the call.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's what it takes.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then you keep doing what you were already doing.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: You keep praying with them, and you keep showing up.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Ask, stay, connect, keep showing up.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're not being asked to become a therapist.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: You're being asked to be the bridge to one, to be the conduit with which God works, which you're already better positioned for than almost anybody else.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now, for the person in the pew who's at church on Sunday or Saturday these days, if you're Catholic, maybe it's a Wednesday Mass, I don't know.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: If that's you and you had these thoughts and you've kept them to yourself because you were afraid of what it would mean about your faith, I want to say a couple of things, and I want to say them really plainly so they're just clear, okay?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Having those thoughts does not mean you're a bad Christian.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Does not mean God has left you.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: It does not mean you've done something horribly wrong.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because the truth is we all do a bunch of wrong stuff.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: It means you're in a lot of pain.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: And your mind is doing that narrowing thing I described earlier, where the exit looks like the only door, man.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: But it just isn't.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: It genuinely is not the only opportunity for you.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much more.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not finished.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Even though I know where you're sitting right now, it might feel like this is there's nothing else beyond today.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: But two things can be true at the same time.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: You can love God and be in this much pain.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Again, referencing back to all those biblical characters I mentioned, they certainly were.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Tons of pain, tons of love for God.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: So you're in decent company with many of the characters in the Bible, plus many other people in this world who just get stuff wrong every day.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: So here's what I'd ask you to do: tell one person, just one.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Pick the safest one you've got.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's your pastor, maybe it's a really close friend, maybe I don't know.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Find somebody.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Call and text 988.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Tonight, you can do that.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: If things are bad, do it tonight.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Do it right now.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: If it's in the morning and you're feeling this way, do it.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Call 988.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Get a real human on the phone.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then, I know this is the hard one, but let somebody get you to help.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Therapist, an outpatient program.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: If you need further hospitalization because you're struggling, fair enough.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: And do this not instead of prayer, not instead of your scriptures, not instead of your pastoral support.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Do it with it.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Combine it all.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you guys are confused, if you need help, I'll put the 988 in the show notes and the 988Colorado.com if you're in Colorado and you want to check that out, it'll all be in the show notes.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's all I have for today.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: I probably said of some of this stuff maybe a bit clumsily, but I'd I'd rather get it out and just sitting on it forever.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you find this information helpful, if you think that somebody else would benefit from this, God, share it with somebody, okay?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: And don't forget to like and subscribe, not just for me, but because it gets this information out there.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, the algorithm overlords need the likes, the subscribes, so they'll they'll push the content further along.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: All right, guys, I wish you well.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'll see you next time.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for tuning in.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Goodbye.