Latest / Pink Shade: Reality TV with Mary Payne / 2119 - Pop and Bravo with comedy writer and author Ali Barthwell (Reality TV for Snobs)

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2119 - Pop and Bravo with comedy writer and author Ali Barthwell (Reality TV for Snobs) · Pink Shade: Reality TV with Mary Payne

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Hey everybody, welcome to Pink Shade. It's Thursday and it's
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Poppin' Bravo Day. I haven't been on a Poppin' Bravo
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: episode in a while, guys. I've had so many other
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: things that I wanted to put in this spot. I'm
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: really glad to be back to it. And what a
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: guest to have. This is Allie Barthwell. Allie has written
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: a book called Reality TV for Snobs. I mean, you guys,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: this is right up by Allie. Allie, get it?
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Allie.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, Allie.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. Oh, I feel
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: like I found my people. Thank you.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, you have got to listen. The subtitle of
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: your book is Everything You Need to Know About the
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Shows You're Too Intellectual to Watch. And I think that's
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: spot on because I say this all the time on
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: the show. When I go to like fancy events for
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: my husband's job, he's a lobbyist in D.C. And I'll say,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: they'll say, well, oh, you know, what do you do?
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: And I'll say, oh, I'm a podcaster. And they'll go, hmm.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: And then I say, I talk about reality TV. And
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: they'll say, oh, that's fun. Oh.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Or they will say, I don't watch any reality TV.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, you do. You just don't know
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: you do.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you do. Do you find that like when you
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: told people you're writing this book about reality TV, maybe
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: it's not so much in your business. Maybe your business,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: everybody's like.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: It's cool.
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: Well, there is a little bit of like, I think
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: the thing that I get the most when I say, oh,
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: I write about reality TV. I love reality TV is
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: people want to go, oh, well, is it fake?
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Is it real?
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: Like that's the most pressing concern. And some of it
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: I go, do you care? Like, does it matter if
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: it's real? And so one of the things with the
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: book that I really wanted to sort of, you know,
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: express and impress upon people is yes, some reality TV shows,
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: TV shows, a lot of them are, are produced, edited,
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: but that doesn't matter because what's more important is the
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: stories that they're telling, the characters that we're meeting, the
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: messages and lessons that we're getting from the shows, because
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: we watch a lot of stuff on TV that isn't real.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: So why is this, why have this be the stumbling block?
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Like, do you like wrestling?
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, exactly. Yeah. Oh yeah.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: And I talk about in the book of like, if
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: you know what kayfabe is, you can get into reality TV.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: Like you can make that crossover.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: I think there's some shows that do it better than
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: others with the production. And you understand, like they'll say
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: like housewives, they have to walk into a restaurant six
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: times to get the best shot.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, sure.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Even on, David Bromstead on HGTV has a show, Lottery
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Dream House or something, which by the way, I mean,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: completely not even on my list of things to talk about,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: but just popped in my head because my husband and
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: I love these house reality shows. Yeah. Right. It's all
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: about judging them and what they're choosing and they're stupid.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Like why didn't they get the three bedroom?
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: But on that show, they had a blooper thing. A
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: whole show one time is celebrating 10 years or something
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: and showed clips of like, the production in the bathroom
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: with them or having to walk in a door three times.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: And it kind of makes you think, okay, all shows
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: do this.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: And with like HGTV shows, like the reason that open
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: concept became so popular is because it's much easier to
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: film in. So that's why a lot of those houses,
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: they sell a, oh, we're going to turn this into
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: an open concept.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: We're going to knock down these walls.
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: Like because it's much easier to get a camera crew
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: or to get whatever production.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: You need in there.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: But for people's lives, as we found during COVID, when
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: suddenly everybody had to, you know, dining rooms, a classroom,
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: bedroom was an office, like having a door that you
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: can shut is actually a big benefit.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: So yes, it's funny you say that we have a
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: house at the beach and it's just like, you know,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: the open concept and then there's bedrooms, but that's it.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: And there's no, my husband's always like, we just need
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: one more space for people to go into that's not
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: this space.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Like, because it is.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: The dining room table is also where we work, is
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: also where we eat, is also where the kids come in. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: But the open concept, it's because it's easier for them
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: to film.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's not real either.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh. It blew my mind.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Listen, we buried the lead here. The lead is that
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: you are super accomplished. You have five Emmys. Yes.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. A Peabody.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: Uh-huh.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: And two Writers Guild Awards.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: I do. Yes.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Okay. So you guys, needless to say, this is a
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: well-written book.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: And it's very funny. But by the way, you need
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: to update your Wikipedia because I was on the plane
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: on the way home this morning.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: I woke up so early.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: And it says you have three Emmys. Oh, yeah.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: I've never– I've taken the hands-off approach to my Wikipedia page.
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I want to be– I'm already
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: a person that will occasionally Google myself. I don't know
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: if I can be a person that also self-edits my
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: Wikipedia page.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: So an enterprising fan or Wikipedia editor out there, get
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: on it.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: Update the Wikipedia page.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: I was like– I was like, this says three, this
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: says five. Oh, I'm going to go with five.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Now, you also, you write for Vulture. Yes.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: Yes. I've written for Vulture for doing recaps of The
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: Bachelor and all of its spinoffs and franchises.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Do you know my buddy, Brian Moylan?
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: I do. Brian did a wonderful blurb for my book.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Ah, I love Brian. Love. He's on here quite a
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: bit and he's just too funny. Too funny. Now, do
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: you still work with the John Oliver show?
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: I do, yes.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: I'm sneaking away on my lunch break as we speak.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Ah. No, but I mean, John Oliver is somebody who's
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: on Watch What Happens Live a lot. He's very famously
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: sort of a Housewives aficionado.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: He loves the Housewives.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: We've derailed many a meeting because one of us will
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: bring up something that's going on in the Housewives and
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: everyone else is like, what are.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: They talking about?
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Tell them. get on board. Like it's the best.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: It's the best.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: And you know, and speaking of, um, things that are
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: kind of, you know, very produced and edited, you know, uh,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: bachelor nation. So if you're into that now, I am
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: a dip in dip out about, I think the last
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: season I actually watched was Nick vial season and not
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: because I'm a big fan.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: Okay. Wow. Yeah. That's a bit ago.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: Not a big fan, but, um, It's because somebody said, oh,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: he's this and he's cute. Whenever I was like, all right,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: because every so often I'm like, I'll try it.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: I'll try it.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: So I tried it. I did dip in with the
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Golden because there was a lady from my neighborhood that
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: was in it.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: That's a real star sighting, star connection. But I had
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: a lot of friends that were like, I've never watched
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: The Bachelor, but I want to get my eyes on
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: the Goldens. And they need to bring them back. I think,
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: you know, The Bachelor has gone a bit astray. But
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: I think another cast of sweet, well-meaning people in their
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: 60s and 70s, 50s, 60s and 70s could really bring
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: us back as a nation we could heal.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: I think so. Now, okay. Taylor Frankie Paul and the
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Bachelorette season that never was that has gone the way
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: of the Ultimate Girls Trip in Morocco.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Which don't you think they should do like pay-per-view? Like
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: if you want to pay $ 60, you can watch Ultimate
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Girls Trip.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Yes. I think all these things, it's like just Aram.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: Like what's good.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: I think with the Taylor, Frankie, Paul of it all,
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: I think they're going to drop that thing at midnight
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: on like Christmas Eve because they know nobody's going to
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: be at home watching.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Hulu or Disney plus.
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: I think they're going to figure they, they, there was
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: like a TMZ article that was like ABC thinking of air.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: And I think that was like a test balloon to
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: see how people would react.
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: And, I also think I have not dipped all the
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: way into the secret lives of Mormon wives.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: I'm aware that they are out there living their Mormon lives.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: You haven't watched any of it.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: I've watched a couple to be like, what is this?
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: But I think with everything around that show, the producers
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: knew what they were getting with the Taylor Frankie Paul season.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: And they wanted maximum drama.
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: And they want that audience to come over.
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: They want the audience to come over. They want maximum drama.
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: That's why you pick someone like Taylor, Frankie, Paul. And
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: if you look at the women that have been The
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: Bachelorette before that, something like any sort of criminal history
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: for a woman on that show would have been utterly disqualifying. And,
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: you know, there have been issues of the men that
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: have been cast on The Bachelorette seasons that have had
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: restraining orders and other criminal issues, but as a lead,
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: something like that would have been disqualifying. So I, you know,
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: I can only feel I'm upset. I don't get to
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: recap it and like talk about it and really dig in.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: But you know, this is, they picked Taylor Frankie Paul
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: because of her controversy and her, like, she's a fire
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: brand as a person. But you know, there've been, there've
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: been rumors that ABC was going to do a celebrity
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: season for years and people were always pitching on Twitter
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: and Instagram who they wanted.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: To have as their celebrity bachelorette.
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: And so this was their version and they went for
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: drama over having, I think I talk about in the book,
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: sort of the the beauty of The Bachelorette is watching
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: a girl like you get everything that she wanted to,
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: you know, they always have a cool job or they
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: have a cool outlook on life or they've been through
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: something that you can relate to, you know, family issue
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: and illness.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: Maybe they're recovering from a bad breakup. We've all been there.
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: And we watch them have this over-the-top romantic fantasy. And
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: I think the show has gotten away from understanding like
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: the thing that people want to watch is this relatable
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: romantic fantasy.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think for that show, they should, and again,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: as a dip, a person who dips ins and out,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: I feel like a whole rebrand, like let's get a
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: new house that doesn't look so dark.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Let's get, let's do like everybody.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: Speaking of HGTV, let's like modernize the house.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Let's find something a little more open concept.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Open concept would be good. Not so much stone would
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: be nice for me. Yeah. I think a whole refresh
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: would be, would be great. Would be great. Well, yeah,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: I think you're right. I do think they have, they
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: will drop it and it will be like the next day.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: People were like, hold on a second. You know, my,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: my Hulu just told me.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: All right, y'all we're headed into the fall and it's
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: time to flip your closet around and get rid of
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: those summer things and start loading in those fall items. Y'all,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: I have so much travel coming up in the fall,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: and the thing that I reach for in my closet
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: every time I'm traveling is my Quince Flow Knit Pullover
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: and the Quince Flow Knit Wide Leg Pants. It's an
• 11:52
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• 11:56
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• 11:59
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• 12:02
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• 12:18
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• 12:24
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• 12:27
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  Speaker 1: available in Canada and the UK too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: com slash pinkshade. I have been, I'm a big fan
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: of Mormon Wives and it's not a show that I cover,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: so I get to actually just watch it and absorb
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: it and enjoy it, you know? And that's what I
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: do here on this episode on Bravo. I never write
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: any notes. I just have somebody like Brian Moylan come
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: on or a friend that covers Bravo and And I
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: just do bullet points. And then we just talk about,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: just talk about the shows.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: Fantastic.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: So nice. When you don't have to like take turn
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: by turn recap notes. I'll do that too sometimes, but
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: usually if it's like, like the first episode of ultimate
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: girls trip, I was like, I gotta, I gotta take
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: notes or I'm going to forget. Cause there's so many
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: odd moving parts. I'm not caught up on, caught up
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: on that, but I am caught up on this. um,
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Mormon wives, I gotta tell you, I know you don't
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: have a lot of spare time, but it's worth it.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: And if you feel right at the beginning, like I
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: felt with Real Housewives of Rhode Island, I can't tell
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: them apart. Yeah.
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: I have that sometimes if there's too many brunette white
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: women in front of me, I really need the, the,
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: the identifying crayons to be up.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Just to follow them around.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Just to follow me around for a little bit, but I'll,
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: I'll get there. I'll get there. Yeah.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: You'll, you'll feel that way about the Mormon wives. You'll
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: be like, they all, especially there's, um, Demi and Jesse,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: and they have the same face, same hair, everything. And
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: you're like, wait.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Well, that was on Salt Lake City.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: Heather was talking about Mormons love physical perfection. So they
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: all get the same plastic surgery.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Yes. This current season on Mormon Wives, Jesse, who is
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: the one who has the extensions business.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: She, and who ended up hooking up with the guy
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Marciano from Viener Pump Villa.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: That's the crossover.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: She, she is getting some plastic surgery, like redone and
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: they're always getting things done and redone and you can't keep,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: and they're all so young.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: And she said, you know, in the Mormon culture, we
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: are taught to strive for perfection in everything, including our,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: the way we look. So that's why I keep trying
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: to perfect it.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: That's what keep is keeping beauty lab and laser, like
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: making money hand over fist for Heather.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: You laugh and laser.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: So funny. Okay. Regarding the subtitle of your book, which
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: I brought up at the beginning, everything you need to
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: know about the shows you're too intellectual to watch. Michelle
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: Obama recently mentioned reality TV on her podcast. I was like, now,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: if you don't think that's a smart person.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Exactly. What are we doing?
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: What did she mention? Did she mention the prostitution horror?
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: Prostitution horrors is. Yeah. She loves a New Jersey housewife.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: There's a show. I think there's some versions of it
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: around the country. Check, please.
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: On like PBS, where in Chicago, they have like a
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: host and then they get three interesting Chicagoans to take
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: you to their favorite restaurant. And then all all three
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: try each other's favorite restaurants. But Barack Obama, when he
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: was a state senator, is on an episode of Check, Please.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: And he recommends like a barbecue restaurant on the south
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: side or I think the far south side. But when
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: he was running for president, everyone was like, the guy
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: from Check, Please?
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: You're like, he did some other things.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, from local reality show, Check, Please? Local reality show. Yeah.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: That's hilarious.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Okay. Now, you do have a section of 90 Day
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Fiance in your book. That's my wheelhouse.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: If somebody, maybe a listener can do this for me,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: they can help me out. I don't know how many,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: if you do 90 day OG and then you do
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: like the other way is coming up, which is the
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: best one. And then of course we have last resort
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: hassle in the castle, we call it finishing up. And
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: then we go into hunt for love, which last year
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: we just called Mexican bank house. And so we're just like,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: you know, if, if somebody could count for me, how
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: many shows.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Have actually aired of Yeah. Franchise.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I would be interested because when you look at like, okay,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: you've got HEA, there's Tennessee. It's confusing. So I did like,
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: you know, and I've got your book right here, everybody.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: If you're watching on YouTube, this is the book. I've
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: got here what you said about essential viewing. Yes. It's
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: like for a show this big and sprawling, it's hard
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: to recommend essential episodes because diehards watch it all. Me. Me.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: Could the Pharaohs of Egypt pick the most important scroll
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: from the library of Alexandria or the most important stone
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: from a pyramid? So instead let's rank the most essential spinoffs,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: which I love. And you rank the other way as
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: number one.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: I love the other way.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: That's the one.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: That's the, I 90 day fiance is another one that like,
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: it's hard for me to bring myself to like devote
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: full time into it. But there was a moment where
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: my boyfriend and I caught like the first episode of
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: a It was a before the 90 days.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: That's what it was.
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: We caught like the first episode of before the 90 days.
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: And we were like, well, I think big Ed was
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: on it. And we were like, we got to get
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: eyes on this.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: What is happening? And it is a show that can
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: really suck you in.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: And I think the thing that is intimidating for a
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: lot of people that want to get into reality TV
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: and like my book really is, I want it to
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: feel like I'm representing the fans and the fandom really accurately,
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: but I also want it to be like an entry point.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: for people that have never watched these shows.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes.
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: But I think it can be really intimidating, especially if
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: you're like, if you have a friend, a girlfriend that's like,
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: oh my God, I love 90 Day Fiance.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: And then you go and look and there's so many
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: episodes and every episode is long and where to start.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: So having sections in the book that really make it
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: easy for people to pick, okay, I'm going to start here.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: I'm going to start here. And some of them, it's like,
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: whatever's airing right now, just get your eyes on that.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: And like, I was literally at dinner last night and
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: I was with some friends. My boyfriend and I competed
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: on Pop Culture Jeopardy.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: And so it was a dream. Oh, the best time.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: Truly the best.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: How can I find that show?
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: It's on Netflix. We're on season two. We're the Wonders.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: With an O and E from that thing you do.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: But we were with some other teams. Like when we travel,
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: we'll go see people or they come to Chicago. We'll
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: go have dinner. And so some of the, one of
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: our friends brought the book for me to sign. He's like,
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: I got to have you sign it tonight at dinner.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: And so one of the, one of the other contestants,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: their wife was like, I've tried to get into this
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: or I, and I was like, Oh, you started watching
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: the wrong thing.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: Right. Like you need to find really what clicks for you.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: And then, you know, she wanted to start the housewives
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: and I was like, okay, start here. If you want
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: this to, you know.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: What do you recommend for housewives?
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: What do you, I say, if you've never watched the
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: housewives start with Salt Lake city, it, the barrier to
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: entry is low.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: It's low seasons. It, It hits the ground running.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: And it's kind of current. And it's current. Because if
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: you start way back with Roni, you're like, I don't
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: recognize this.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: My other method is I say to people, I go,
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: can you name a housewife? I'm like, have you ever
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: heard of any housewife? And they'll be like, I've heard
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: of Bethany Frankel. And I'm like, watch Bethany's first season
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: and go from there. Like start, I try and get
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: people like something you recognize, something you know, and then
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: go from there. And then also with Housewives, I go,
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: what are you watching for? Like, what do you want
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: to see? And if someone's like, oh, I want like
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: Birkin bags. And I'm like, you got to watch Beverly Hills.
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: If someone's like, oh, I just want something really funny.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: Like I love watching. And I'm like, you got to
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: go Atlanta, Potomac.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: But so you can, so in the book, in those
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: where to start the essential episodes, I'm trying to dial
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: into what people want to watch, why they want to
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: watch the things that they do, and then giving them
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: a recommendation from there. And my mom calls it matchmaking,
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: that I'm reality TV matchmaking. And at one of my
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: book events, my friend Josh Gondelman, who did the event,
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: he called it being a doula.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: I was dueling people into reality TV.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's kind of gross, but it's kind of true.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: You're going to go through, something's going to come out
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: that you weren't expecting, but in the end you have a,
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: you have a beautiful gift to enjoy.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: For the rest of your life.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: It's going to be painful. You're going to laugh. You're
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: going to cry.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: You're going to laugh. You're going to cry.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: Funny.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you, okay, this is maybe a weird question,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: but maybe nobody with all your interviews, maybe nobody's asked
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: you this.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: What do you think about the crossover of people, of
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: which I am one, of people who love reality TV
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: who also love true crime? What's that about?
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: Well, I also joke like The Real Housewives is becoming
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: some of our greatest true crime television.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, so many investigators.
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: With Erica Jane and the car flipping over on the
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: way home from the robbery and with all the stuff
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: on Salt Lake City. It was snowing and the car
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: flipped over. And so I think there is a real
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: fascination in watching something a little dangerous, but you're safe
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: at home. And, you know, I've seen people talk about
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: true crime is sometimes comforting to watch because something horrible
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: has happened, but we know that they catch the person
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: or we know that there's like good people out there
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: trying to solve the crime.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: But I'm safe at home. Like I can hear these sort.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: Of titillating, really extreme details, but I'm safe at home.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: And I think reality TV does the same thing. where
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: a lot of people would not like to be in
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: a fight with their friends. That would give you so
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: much anxiety.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: I've never known anybody that fights with their friends or
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: goes to a bar and starts taking shots.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Starts taking shots immediately.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: But it's kind of fun to watch someone make choices
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: that you wouldn't make that feel a little dangerous or transgressive,
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: but then you're home and you're safe. And then you know,
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: it ends up somewhat okay. Cause we get to the
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: end of the episode or we get to the end
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: of the season. We know there's going to be a
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: reunion where everybody's going to air it out. So I
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: think it's this similar thing of like, I get to watch,
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: I get to see things that are a little scary,
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: a little dangerous choices I would never make.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: I'm safe at home. And then somebody's out there making it. Okay.
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: And so I wonder if maybe that is kind of
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: the crossover, this sort of glimpsing into bad behavior. And
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: then true crime is just a little more extreme of
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: what that bad behavior is often.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: I see a lot of people say they like to
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: listen to true crime podcasts or watch true crime documentaries
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: because it's like we're women and so we're learning how
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: to protect ourselves. Yes. We're learning ways to not have
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: this happen to us. Or if this didn't happen to us,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: how can we prevent it? It's like Karen and Georgia say,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: my favorite murder, stay sexy, don't get murdered. That's the goal.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: So, okay. I was just wondering if you had a
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: thought on that.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Cause I was like, everybody.
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: And I, and I really, I love like law and
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: order SVU is truly my favorite television program. And I
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: watch it constantly and I'll watch it like while I'm
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: doing other work. And my boyfriend is like the most
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: horrific things are happening on this show. And you're just
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: like calmly like going through your emails or cooking or something.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: It's like, how can you, and I'm like, I don't
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: know something about it. It's just weirdly weird. weirdly comforting.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: That's what I put on a true crime podcast and
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: I'm just around the house doing my thing. Or I'll
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: put on Emily D. Baker would be covering a trial.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: And my family laughs. I go, mom's in court. I'm like,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: I'm in court. I'm like, do you need me? Pause.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: I'm in court. Okay. I want to talk to you
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: about villains in reality TV.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: They are so essential to the form.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they are. And some people go on. Like right
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: now we're watching this really stupid show that is– the
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Learning Channel does nothing but teaches things, okay? Yes. I
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: could probably write a K-1 visa application like right now.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Easily. And if you asked me anything about the legal
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: system because I cover Love After Lockup, I could tell
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: you anything about the parole probation system. So the Learning
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Channel has a show on right now called Double Lives
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: as Suburban Wives. And so what we're learning about now
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: is moms who do OnlyFans.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: Good for them. Good for them. Yeah.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Well, you think that because that's how I– Yeah, I'm sure.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: And they sort of– it's very stylistically done. Like you're
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: supposed to think like it's like Desperate Housewives, like showing
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: the cookies and then like you know what they're doing
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: or the lemonade. And one person is talking over like
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Desperate Housewives started. Yeah. It was all kind of kitschy.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: And then the longer we're getting into it, we're like,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: this is so fucking dark. It is so dark. And
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: all of the kids are on there, on the show.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: And their friends are on there. Grandma's on there. None
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: of them know what this show is about.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: But they will when it comes out. They got to
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: know that mom is downstairs doing a double penetration in
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: the basement.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah. Well, you know.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Like dad and the neighbor.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well.
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: It sounds like she's getting to know her neighbors and
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: we could use more of that in this day and age.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: I love the spin. It's lots of women. It's not
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: just one. Yes. It's a start.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: I really, one of the areas that I'm like, I
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: just have no interest is when people's kids get involved.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: See, that's the thing. The show was great until now
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: I know all the kids' names.
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: And I know that these kids don't know what this
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: show is about. I don't like it.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: I don't like, and some of the, you know, you
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: go back and you want the learning channel sort of
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: always had, once they sort of locked on to like
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: families as kind of the, the main thing, I think
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: that is like, I don't think we need to have
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: kids on here. I don't think kids need to be
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: doing a confessional stuff like that.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right, right.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean, wow, that is again, you know,
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: God forbid a woman have hobbies, but I'm really, I'm interested.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: I got it.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: It's all the husbands have pushed all the wives into it.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: It's dark. It's dark. But the reason I bring that
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: up is because there's one girl on there who goes
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: to church girl because her dad's a preacher and he
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: doesn't he's on the show and he doesn't know what
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: the show is. I mean, he knows now. Yeah. And
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: when he is filming about it. So she's sort of
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: the villain on the show because she's annoying and kind
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: of a bitch and doesn't want to welcome the new girl. Like,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: you know, I love it.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: And no new people. And they've kind of done a
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: lot of like, you know, memes and TikToks and stuff
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: about it, about her being. And I'm like, you guys
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: aren't big enough to have a villain on your show.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: You've got six episodes. But why do you think people
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: go on this show? And I'm sure you've been asked this,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: but like, I was trying to think on our housewives,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: who was the first person? Because now there's so many
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: to go to jail. We had Apollo.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: Apollo went to jail.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: And then was it Teresa and Joe? Was there anybody between?
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: Teresa and Joe went to jail. I think they might've
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: been the only ones until Jen Shaw and Erica's husband.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Karen Huger.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Karen Huger.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think like the, the criminality of it
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: all in the housewives is so interesting because especially when
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: you get into like Jen Shah and all of her stuff.
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: It's like she's trying to keep up the money, keep
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: up the appearances.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: I think that's a big part of it.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: She was doing it way before she was on reality TV.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: She was doing it way before the show, but she
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: had gotten.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: accustomed to a certain lifestyle and wanted to keep that
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: lifestyle up. And you also have to think, if you're
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: doing a criminal enterprise, is a national television show the
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: best place.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: For you to be? Right.
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: I think there is like a crossover in, I'm going
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: to scam, I'm going to be doing these illegal things.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: With, I got to get my ass on TV.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: I got to have people like calling me iconic and
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: all of that. And so I wonder like, what is the,
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: you know, what's the middle of that Venn diagram? Probably narcissism,
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: but that you think you can get away with crimes,
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: but you also want to be on TV. And I
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: think there are, I sort of look at villains as
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: they're sort of like a couple different like strains of villains.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: There are people that are just like terrible.
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: People and horrible and like want to call stuff out
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: to like, Jax on Vanderpump Rules, you know.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: That's the first one that came to my mind was Jax.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: He's a real villain.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: But now we've gone over into DV with Jax.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: And I think, you know, in any of these people, like,
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: there is always that layer of, like, if you're willing
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: to do this, like, what else are you willing to do?
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: Which is, I think, always in the back of viewers'
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: minds when they sort of identify there's people that are, like,
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: that are trying to be a villain. So if you
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: look at like Selling Sunset, Christine in the early seasons,
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: she did this interview, I think it was with the
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: LA Times, where she had gone to acting school and
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: was a realtor like on the side. And then this
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: sort of opportunity came up and she was like, well,
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: it'd be really fun to kind of be the villain.
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: And I think like, you know, a bit of that
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: was her personality, but she was like, I can amp
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: this up and become the villain and I'll be in
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: every episode. every conversation is going to be about me.
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: So you see people that like are actively trying to
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: be the villain.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: And then I think there's like.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: The category of villain where the person is like, there's
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: some fiction or narrative of the show that they kind
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: of don't want to give into. And maybe they just
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: behave in a way that the audiences don't like or
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: expect and And there really maybe isn't anything like super
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: villainous about them.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: They're just maybe like annoying. Or they're just kind of like.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Leah McSweeney comes to mind.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, Leah McSweeney.
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: And even on The Valley, like some of the ways
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: that Janet has kind of been portrayed.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: If you watch The Valley.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: I love Janet. Right. I don't get the Janet hate.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: I'm like more Janet.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: She's so polarizing in the fans.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: And she gets labeled as like a villain when it's like,
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: is she a villain or is she just like kind
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: of annoying and like maybe not great reality TV because
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: she's just like kind of a person who's a little annoying.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: And so you see these like different kinds of villains,
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: but it's like the show will always find a villain
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: because you do need a bit of, you know, you
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: need an antagonist and like, Something, excuse me, I was
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: trying to do with the book is like, they're trying
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: to tell a story. They're trying to say, they're trying
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: to create some narrative and narratives have opposing forces. They
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: have a protagonist, they have an antagonist, they have a hero,
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: they have the obstacle. And on each show, those things
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: look different. And the reason why we don't like them
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: is different. So like the person on The Bachelor or
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: The Bachelorette who might be a villain is there because
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: they're not there for the right reasons.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: But like, that's why they're the villain, you know, because
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: you can tell they're not there for the right reasons.
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: And so, you know, I think there will always be
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: villains in reality TV. And on some, I like joke
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: on a lot of competition shows, the villain is time
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: of like, I'm trying to make this dish and the
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: villain is that I'm going to run out of time or,
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: you know, I'm on project runway. The villain is that
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: time has caused my unconventional material to like shrivel up
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: and die. So you do see, you know, there always
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: is some sort of antagonist opposing force. And something I
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: also wanted with the book is like, if we look
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: at it from other kinds of storytelling, what can we
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: kind of apply? And like all other kinds of storytelling,
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: a lot of other kinds of storytelling have a villain,
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: have an antagonist, have an opposing force.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Did you watch the show Unreal?
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: I watched the first season and I don't know if
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: I finished the second season, but I watched all of
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: the first season.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: I thought, for me, I thought it was a real
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: eye-opener to see, okay, because you guys, if you don't know,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Unreal was a show. Constance Zimmer was on it. And
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: I don't even know where it aired.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: It was on Lifetime. Lifetime. It was a Lifetime original drama.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Which is nuts.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Because it was so well done.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: It was so good.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so well. Not that you can't have good things
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: on Lifetime, but not normally like this level. It was
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: really good. And it was about a Bachelor-style show. And
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: then it really showed the backgrounds of the producers trying
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: to manipulate their contestants that they were assigned to. Also
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: because the further their contestant gets along, the more money
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: they made as the producers.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: Exactly, yeah.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: And them trying to whisper in the ear about, this
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: girl said this about you, whether she did or she didn't.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: And then trying to get them really drunk and make
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: them stay up really late. And it really opened my
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: eyes to the producer's role in these kinds of shows,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: because you will hear people in reality shows. I was
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: very close with my producer. And when like Lisa Barlow
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: had that hot mic moment about, oh yeah, Mark, your
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: family just poses. You fucked every guy in New York city.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: She was in the room with her producer, her producer.
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: And she says, I just felt comfortable because I was
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: talking to my producer. So they get really comfortable with
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: these people. so comfortable that they sort of forget they're
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: there or whatever. And that's what, but that show really
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: kind of made me think there's more going on here. Oh, absolutely.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Then maybe, then maybe I wanted to, to know, maybe
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to know, you know?
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: And I, and I, I definitely think of like, there
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: are people, you know, there you watch the credits on
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: some of these reality shows and they have like story
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: editors because they're taking these like, moments that are happening,
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: these different scenes, and they're having to put it in
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: what comes after what, you know, our Bravo shows love
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: to start with like, here's what happened.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Here's how we got there. Like a flashback kind of sequence.
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: And like, you can only do that if you're producing
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: and writing and editing with the goal of I'm telling
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: this like coherent story that's like moving.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: And they'll tell the housewives, like when you go to
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: lunch with Erica and You've got to bring up what's
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: going on with, have you seen Tom? You know, you've
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: got to bring that up.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: And that was the.
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: Frustration with season 11 of Vanderpump Rules. After the Scandival season,
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: the producers were telling the other castmates, if you can't
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: get Ariana and Tom to have a sit down where
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: Tom can apologize or they can have this sort of
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: cathartic moment, The show's going to get canceled. And so
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: you suddenly have these people where their livelihood, the way
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: that they pay their bills is this show. And they
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: have in their ear, if I don't get these two
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: people together, the show's going to be canceled. So then
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: you see on that all throughout that season, people trying
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: to get Ariana and Tom in the same room to
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: be at the.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: Same dinner table. And, you know, going to her and saying, well,
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: why can't you do this?
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: Just talk to him.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: And she's like, no. Why? Why would I talk to him?
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: And then you see at the end of that season,
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: that frustration of, you know, Lala screaming, I've never seen
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: somebody get cheated on and they become God. And because,
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: you know, also they also know, like, I had this
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: happen to me in various ways. Everybody on that show
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: has been cheated on and cheated with somebody.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, been the cheater.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Been the cheater. And they never got.
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: What they see is what Ariana is getting and this
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: frustration of like, we're told that if she doesn't play ball,
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: this goes away for us.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: And she's just blowing us off.
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: And so I think, and like I said, too, of like,
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: I think now you have people going on these shows,
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: you know, knowing, well, I got to get my catchphrase in,
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: or I got to, you know.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: I was just going to ask you about catchphrases.
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Of like, I got to get my catchphrase in
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: or I got to, you know, I'm going there. There
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: was a guy on The Bachelorette where he had Waboom
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: was his like catchphrase. And he did this whole like,
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: he was clearly like thought he was going to be
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: the next Jim Carrey. But then like a couple weeks
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: after the episode premiered, like I don't think he made
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: it past night one or two. He had a site
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: where he was selling Waboom t-shirts. And it's like, who
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: wants a Waboom t-shirt?
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: That's so funny. He's like, I'm going to the show
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: and you watch me make waboom happen.
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: This is my catchphrase. My boyfriend, he's a wrestling fan.
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: Like I said, he talks about they're just trying to
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: get their shit over. That's what you say in wrestling fans.
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: They're just trying to get their shit over with the crowd.
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: They're just trying to get the crowd to.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Eat it up.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: And you can tell on some reality shows, they're just
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: trying to get this over. They're just trying to get
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: this thing sold so they can make a T-shirt or
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: a novelty song or a club song or whatever.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: I was just going to ask you what you thought
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: about catchphrases because we see in Congress, there was a
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: congressman that said receipts, timelines, screenshots, everything. We see that.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, Heather Gay did not need that.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: To make her head bigger. No, no, no.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: And you know, you see Dorinda. I made it nice.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: I made it nice.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: We're like, okay, yeah, we got it. And even Teresa
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: doesn't go around. You'll remind her and she'll go, oh, yeah.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: I forgot I said that.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: I think some of the best things that become that
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: like live on are the things that were like unintentional catchphrases.
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: So like, and even like, like I think Mimi Leakes
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: is just one of the funniest people we've ever had.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: Yes. Bring her back.
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: And her just being like, Ooh, a white refrigerator. Like
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: people didn't want to have white refrigerators after that moment.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: But I mean, a fashion show with no fashion is
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: how dreadful.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: How dreadful. I say constantly. Yeah.
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: Mimi's, all white seafood soiree for the girls and gays
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: never forget. Like I will throw a party and call
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: it Ali's whatever soiree for the girls and gays.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: There was a lady on my plane this morning that
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: was really holding the line back. She was in like
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: a grocery store scooter. And every time I was like, oh,
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: if I could just get past her, then I would
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: get past this line, past this line. And literally in
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: my mind, I'm going, where is your scooter?
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: Where is your scooter?
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Where is your scooter? And Those are the things that
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: go through my mind and those are like unintentional. And
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: I think you're right. The things that, you know, like
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Lisa Barlow's kid getting in the car going, hi, baby gorgeous.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: Hi, baby gorgeous.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: And it's just funny. It's just funny. Now she has
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: to come out with a song. Right.
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: But then like the thing I love of Lisa Barlow
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: is her being on the phone being like, I need
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: my lawyers. I need what, like, can you get the other, like, again,
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: like sort of, I think, There are people, yeah, that
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: are trying to get their shit over.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: They're trying to get a catchphrase. They're trying to, you know.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Jen Shaw was before she went away. She was always
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: trying to make a moment.
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: You know, but I think the fact that the thing
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: that sticks with me is you smell like hospital, which
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: is so much like it so evocative and wild and like.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: When she said it, you're like, I know what that
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: smells like.
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: I know what that smells like. Again, I've spent a
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: lot of time in hospitals. I went through cancer treatment.
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: There are things that smell like hospital that I have
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: to be like, I have to leave this room.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: I know exactly what she's talking about.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: Oh my God.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: But like, I think, yeah, what people really.
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: Love is those like spontaneous moments where you see like
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: the wit of the person come in like quick, quick,
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: just ramming into the frustration or the circumstance of what's
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: going on. And the more that someone can make it
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: feel like it's a real thing that came out of
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: their mouth, the better.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: Well, you think like Bethany, You know, in her heyday,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: Bethany just so quick and so funny. And like Ramona,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: original Ramona was unintentionally funny. Yes.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: Because she's such a dork and so out of touch
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: with the world. Right. And just so kind of allegedly
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: blatantly racist.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: And classist and everything. And you're like, is this funny
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: or should we not? Be calling someone.
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: What I love about reality TV too is, again, sort
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: of that feeling of like I can watch people that
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: I really don't like and I can really enjoy watching
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: them knowing this is a bad person I would never
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: like to be seated next.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: To on a flight.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: But I can really feel safe at home watching these
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: truly interesting, I'd say like the Real Housewives are some
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: of the most specific, unique women we've ever had on
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: our televisions. Just like, yeah, we need to see more
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: weirdos and we need to like get our like tolerance
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: level for just someone that we don't like, but we
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: are fascinated by and that we can say, yeah, I
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: don't want this person to have any power or control
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: in my life or the lives of others. But I
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: do want to see what happens when they try and
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: go shopping in another country where they don't speak the language.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: Like that is very, very, very fun for me.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: You in your book, you also lean heavily into your
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: love for the traitors. And, you know, that's another thing
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: that people say it's a murder.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: There's been a murder.
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: Murder.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: So you wrote in your section for traitors, you wrote
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: essential viewing because this is how she breaks it down, guys.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: And at the end, she tells you essential viewing and
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: how to do it. And essential viewing, you just said
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: all of it.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: All of it. All of it. All of it.
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: I say essential viewing for the American edition, you just
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: got to watch all. Because each season, I think, delivers
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: something so special and unique. And that first season, I
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: know a lot of people don't like it because it's
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: half real people, half reality people. But you have to
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: watch Ceri Fields, one of the best to ever do
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: it in any reality TV show. her run on that
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: show as a trader is outstanding like it is truly
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: wonderful and then you gotta watch the second season when
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: they start doing all traders and then you know you
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: gotta keep watching and get to season three and four,
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: we have, we have Phaedra, we have Bob, the drag queen.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Oh my God.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: We have, um, people.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: Didn't know people. And so I am not a love
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: Island person. I'm not a survivor person. Like I know,
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: I know the players, not the game, not the game,
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: not the players. I kind of know it, but I
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: don't know it. So then I'm like, who is this?
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: Rob snake guy. Holy shit.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: He's good looking, you know? And you're just like, more
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: of him on screen because I just want to kind
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: of look at him. And more, too. Just so beautiful.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: And then, like, Ceri, I'm not a Survivor person, but
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: I'm like, she's really good. Obviously really good. But what
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: do you think about this upcoming season that's all normies?
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: I'm very interested.
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: I wonder if they're going to throw any, like— changes
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: to the format of maybe having some different games or different,
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: you know, twists.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: Because if you watch the UK.
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: Version, that originally is all real people, like all normies.
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: And they have some really fun twists. Like there's one
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: moment in a season where you go to dinner and
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: you sit across from someone and you reveal if you're
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: a traitor or not, but then you burn the paper
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: that had if they were a.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: Traitor or not.
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: And there was a great moment where someone who no
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: one had suspected revealed that she was a traitor.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: And then she leaned into the other person. She's like,
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: no one's going to believe you.
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: And was like, have fun trying to convince everyone I'm
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: a traitor.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: Bye.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: So you show a piece of paper to the other
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: person that says, I'm a traitor. And then they get
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: back to the castle and they go back to their
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: little group and they're like, she said it, she said it.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: And people are like, I don't know if I, why
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: would she, I don't know if I believe you.
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: So I would be really, and I'm really interested if
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: they bring in some different challenges or some different twists
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: to let us get to.
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: Know the players more.
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: Cause really I've had a lot of friends that love
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: the traders, but didn't watch any other reality.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: So they were like, who's Tom Sandoval? And I'm like,
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: who's Tom Sandoval?
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yes.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: So I'm really– and I have friends that were like,
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: oh my gosh, I would love to try out and
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: go play The Traitors.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: Like it just seems like a fun.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: Thing to go play. I know so many people that applied.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: Yes. Oh, yeah.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: At least 10 people I know that one of them
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: got picked. But as they were revealing the cast, I
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: did see that it was some like Instagram influencers and
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: stuff that they did pick, which is smart to get
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: the viewers to get some eyes on it. But if
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: it's also just like a regular housewife from the Midwest
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: who's super– savvy and can play the game. I'm in
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: for that too.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: The, if you haven't watched the UK season, the second
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: season of the UK traders is there's a, there's a
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: trader on there who is so good. Just nobody suspects
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: them moving through the castle. Like so, so good. But
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: the UK, they're really fun. Because there is that thing
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: of like people being like, well, I'm just a grandma.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: No, one's going to suspect me.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: I'm, you know, It's not Alan Cumming on that show.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: No, it's Claudia Winkleman.
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: She's a presenter and I believe like a comedian in
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: England because they sort of have a job that's like
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: you just host stuff, but you're like, you're a comedian
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: or something. And then you just sort of, all you
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: do is let you just host things. So she has a,
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: it's less, it is still a little campy, but she
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: plays it like, there really was a murder. Like someone has,
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: she plays it like because her sense, her sensibility is
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: very dry.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: And they're the celebrity version.
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: They just did a celebrity season or just, it was
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: maybe a year ago on the UK and they had
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: like very famous people and seeing these very famous people
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: in the house.
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: Doing all these things. It was again, so fun. So funny.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: And the other contestants were like, well, we know this
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: guy is super famous, so they would probably make him
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: a trader because that would be good rating. So they
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: have all these theories of trying to outsmart the producers.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: I've written this down. Traders UK.
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: Traders UK, the regular seasons and the celebrity. I think
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: they're doing another celebrity season in the UK soon. If
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: you like the traders, it's so, so, so fun.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: So, so, so fun.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: Did you watch this latest season of Love is Blind UK?
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: I did not get my eyes on Love is Blind UK.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: Okay. Love is Blind UK is so good. Okay.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: I'm excited. It's so good.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: Good. And this past season, which was only season three,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: so you have time to catch up.
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. First of all, they made it so lean and
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: mean that literally it's normally 11 episodes and then 12
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: is the weddings. And then we have a reunion. They
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: did 11 episodes and 11 was the weddings. Like they
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: cut a whole episode out. So really it's so lean
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: and mean. They don't have any of this like filler
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: of just like five minutes of them playing Frisbee in
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: a park with the dog. And then everybody goes and
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: meets everybody's parents and everybody sees everybody's apartment. They don't
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: do any of that. Yeah. And there's right away a villain,
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: right away a girl. That's just so like posh and
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: snobby and says, you know, I work at my job
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: as a Pilates instructor to buy things for me and
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: maybe the children. But I expect my man to support.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: She's just so awful. And then there's a guy who
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: like maybe does or does not have a cocaine problem. Sure, sure, sure.
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, what good reality TV show doesn't have someone
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: who may or may not have a cocaine problem?
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: Just one coke addict per show.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: You gotta have it.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: So I'm saying seasons one and two were really good.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: And there's some really good, really like hot people to
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: look at. There's a guy named Freddie who was a
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: mortician and just like, Yes.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: Good for him.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: I'll move to the morgue. I don't care. And then,
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: but this season three, I would recommend just like tonight,
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: just sit down and be like, we're starting it. It's
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: so good. Because I know you like Love is Blind too,
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: but this UK season three is.
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: I do like getting my eyes on the international versions.
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: You really get a sense of like, Ooh, the different
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: sensibilities like of these countries and like what they bring.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: And the UK with the snobbiness of which part of
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: London you might be from.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: If you're not from London and you're from like, if
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: you're from Cornwall.
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: I remember I was visiting a friend who was staying
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: in Manchester in college and we were hanging out with
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: her British friends and it suddenly became, we are going
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: to dissect how each person at the table says are
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: in different words and the letter R.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: In different words.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: And then letting that dictate what we think about their
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: class status. Like it's just the same way you would
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: be like, did your, did your family ever have like a, a,
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: you know, a freezer in the garage? Oh, you're not
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: from the Midwest. They do that with pronunciation. So I
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: remember just like two, two guys going back and forth
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: and he goes, at least I pronounce my R's like,
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: because it's a very posh, I forget which one it is,
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: but it's either posh or not posh to not pronounce
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: your R's.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: So they are deep.
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: That's like having the accents would be a clue through
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: the wall.
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: They go right in and they go like, hey, how
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: you doing? How you doing? Oh, from the north, are you?
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: Like right away. And then I, on my show, when
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: we were recapping it, I would put up maps and
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: be like, okay, like I put into chat GPT. Show
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: me a map with Cornwall and London and it'll show
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: you a map so you see how far it is.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: And then I put underneath like three hours driving, you know,
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: to get a sense because when it's a Minnesota one
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: or something, they tell you, you're like, oh, okay, well there,
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: this person's here and this person's here. It's an hour
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: drive and you can get it. But with this, I'm like,
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: I got, even though I've been to London, I had
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: no clue.
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: And like, yeah, like being from certain areas in England,
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: it's like, oh, you're from here.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: Then- everybody in your family's this or everybody.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: You know, you're fancy or you're not fancy.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: You're fancy or not fancy.
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah. My friend married someone who's British and his family
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: is fancy. But he's very, he's always trying to be like, okay,
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: what's the American equivalent of this place or what's the
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: American equivalent of doing this or, you know, the American
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: history version of this.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: Because he just wants to like understand. And I, and
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: I always.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: Have, we don't have a version. Yeah.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Did you watch, um, the current, the new ladies
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: of London that they canceled?
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: No, I didn't watch Ladies of London.
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: I didn't watch the original, but I did watch this
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: new one. The new things that I have gotten my
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: eyes on, I watched The Ultimatum, the latest season. I'm
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: very excited for Dancing with the Stars to come back.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: What else was there? There was something else I was
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: watching in there.
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: Oh, I got my eyes on the first episode of
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: the new season of New York, of Rooney.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: I thought- the refresh was, even though we didn't see
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: Carol in the first episode, the refresh is good.
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: Yes. I feel good about this.
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: I feel like they all really know each other, which
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: I think is a good, you need that on a
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: housewife season. And we have Aaron who is a villain,
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: but doesn't think she's a villain, which is a great,
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: a great combo. And then, yeah, when I was watching
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: the ultimatum, it was this late, it was season four.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: It is like, ooh, I'm.
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: Worried for our 20-year-old ladies out there that this is
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: the pool of men that exists.
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: I'm always worried about that too.
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: These guys are absorbing Manosphere content or they're using ChatGPT
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: as a therapist and then they're upset that you don't
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: know what their ChatGPT therapist told them. Um, so it's very,
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: very interesting to see what the dating is like.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: The man is where we've got a couple of guys
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: on TLC that were like, totally like, yeah, I listened
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: to these, um, male podcast about relationships were like red flag.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: And I have like a red flag on my desk
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: and we're always.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: Like, hold it up. Red flag.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: Nope.
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: There was, there was a moment on, um, the ultimatum
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: where they were like, it was when they were swapped.
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: And they were sort of like, oh, would you want
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: your partner to do this?
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: Would you want your partner to do this? And this one.
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: Guy who was playing, he was like over 30 playing
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: basketball in different countries.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: I was like, buddy, hang it up.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: Hang it up. You're not.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: It's not your career. Not your career.
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: And he was like asking the woman he was paired with.
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: He was like, do you think that you should have
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: male friends after you're married? I was like, oh, we're
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: back to this? Like, can men and women be friends? Like, no.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: I was like, uh-uh. No, thank you. Oh, my God.
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: So it's like that.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: A lot of 90 Day Fiance people, the men come
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: over from Muslim countries and they're like, they wanted to
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: have this American woman because they want to like have
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: sex and party and all this. But then when they
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: get married, they're like, and now you can't have male
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: friends and you. I'm the man of the house and make.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: All the decisions. We're not partying anymore.
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: Sir, you do not have a job.
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: You don't have a job.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: You don't have a job, so get out of here.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: You can't marry a hot girl and then try and
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: turn her into a housewife. Like, if you want her
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: to be.
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: Partying and living it up and, you know, getting it
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: on before the wedding... how do you think she's going
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: to keep that energy after the wedding?
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: She's going to be partying and living it up. Same person.
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: Same person.
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: That's why like, I love iced tea and cocoa because
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: he just is like, she is incredibly hot. She wears
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: no clothing. And this is the woman that I love
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: and I will not try to change her.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: That's like, great.
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: You've, they, they found what they needed in each other.
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: But so yeah, the ultimatum really had me. And they
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: also did a montage at the reunion of, all of
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: the conspiracy theories that everyone believed oh and it was
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: like i don't think dinosaurs are real i think the
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: moon landing was fake i think um joe biden was
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: killing all the chickens like really it's not that i
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: was like okay i hadn't heard that you know there
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: were things that i was like okay moon landing whatever
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: but then it was like we don't think dinosaurs are
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: real We think like they faked dinosaurs.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: That's, I mean, that's, I can't, I'd like to see
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: some TikToks about it. Somebody, somebody, somebody show me your theory.
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: I think, I think if you got, if you looked
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: at one of those TikToks, your TikTok algorithm would explode.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: No, I don't need it. The other day I got
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: a video of baby ducks meeting baby meeting puppies. Yeah.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: That's, that's what social media should be for.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: It was a pile of puppies. And they put out
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: baby ducks and let them go. And they all just
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: climbed all over each other. And I go, you know what?
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to watch this a hundred times. So
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: my algorithm will feed it to me.
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: I love something, a TikTok genre that I love or
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: YouTube video, fun animals eating exotic fruits. If you have
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: like a farm of guinea pigs and you give them
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: Like exotic melons from around the world. And I'm just
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: watching the guinea pigs chomp down.
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: What a treat. A coffee burra getting to eat a
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: pile of yuzu. Oh my God.
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: Incredible. An otter eating passion fruits. That's the best the
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: internet has to offer.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: That's so specific. I have this one that I watch.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: It's like two dogs and they put like a red
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: bell pepper in front of both dogs. The one dog
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: will always eat it and the other dog always turns
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: his nose up. And then the other dog, and I'm like, okay,
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: I could just watch this all day. I'm currently very
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: involved in this little baby goat named Maggie that was
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: born and she was like one pound and all her
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: siblings were like three pounds. So she was the runt.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: So they had to take her into the house to
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: feed her and teach her how to stand. And then
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: day by day, they're taking her out to the goat
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: paddock and putting her in and none of the other
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: goats will talk to her.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: And she sits.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: In the corner by herself. And then she just like
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: cries until the lady, the mom will come and take
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: her back. She's like, but she has to go out
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: there every day. And then she'll be like, good news.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: You know, this one goat wanted to play with her
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: and stuff. I'm like, Accept it. Maggie is a house goat.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: She's the house goat.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: She lives with you now. If any of us see
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: you put that goat out in the paddock with the
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: other goats, the internet's not standing for this.
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: It's the real house goat of inside your house is
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: what happened. And Maggie is iconic and she's holding, I
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: don't know, center handful of grain.
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: What a goat.
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: Yes. But she'll put her and she'll say, she is
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: three apples tall. Yes. She weighs two pounds. And I'm like,
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: I need her. Okay, I could talk about that all day.
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we could talk about Maggie the goat.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: Maggie the goat. Now, tell me, okay, so you said
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: you're looking forward to, well, of course, we've got New
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: York is coming.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: New York.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's on, and we've got Salt Lake is coming.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: Salt Lake coming back.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: Something else is coming back. Something else they put the
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: other day. I was like, oh, my gosh, it's too much. Traders,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: of course.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: Traders.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: I'm also, it's starting, we're taping this on Tuesday. I
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: am excited for Dancing with the Stars. Dancing with the
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: Stars is like emotionally load bearing in my heart.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: It is the source of all my joy and all
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: my whimsy.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: Well, that's another reason you'd love Mormon Wives because there's
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of Dancing with the Stars in there.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, now they're all dancing. They're now all dancing.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: If you are not getting your eyes on Dancing with
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: the Stars and you just want something like fun and
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: wholesome and like people inspiring themselves through the art of
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: dance Like Dancing with the Stars is so fun.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: It's campy. It's silly.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: It like will, you know, they'll always find like a
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: hot guy and make him take his shirt off.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: So that was Robert Irwin where they were really like,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: we're going to pop that shirt off every episode.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: Steve Irwin's son.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: But I don't think my daughter loves him. I don't
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: think that I don't think it's fair that Jenna Dewan
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: is on because she's a professional dancer.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: That always happens. There's always someone who's a professional dancer.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: And honestly, I am, you know, I'm more fine with
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: someone like Jenna Dewan or Harry Shum, Harry Shum Jr.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: than like Charli D'Amelio, where it's like Charli D'Amelio's already
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: got a lot going on. She's already got a lot
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: of stuff being given to her.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: She doesn't need this. She doesn't.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: I want to see somebody I haven't seen in a
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: little bit. have their resurgence on dancing with the stars.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: And like, it's not always the person with the most
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: dance experience that wins. Like sometimes it is, but it's like,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: I think it's a show that really rewards like growth
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: and like being vulnerable and kind of giving yourself over
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: to the process. So that was one of my beefs
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: with like the Charlie D'Amelio win, if I'm going to
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: get controversial, um, that she already started and she was incredible.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: And she, um, didn't get messy and sort of silly
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: and have fun with the process in the same way
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: that some of the other people did that I would
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: have liked to be.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: Seen in a rewarding win.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: And that was also like with Whitney from Secret Lives
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: of Mormon Wives. She took it like weirdly personal that
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: she like didn't win.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: That's why you got to get your eyes on the show.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: They talk so much about it. They talk about it
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: so much.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: She did that like a special dance on like Call
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: Her Daddy with her partner about like fame. Like at
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: the end of the season, you do like a freestyle,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: which you can incorporate any dance elements that you want.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: So there is a little bit of ballroom, but it
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: is just like any. And so she did like this theatrical, weird,
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: like clown. I'm saying complimentary dance. like an interpretive.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: I remember that. And she like smeared her lipstick.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: And I'm just like, girl, we not doing all this
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: on dancing with the stars.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: You better pick your.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: Favorite song that came out when you were eight years
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: old and give us a two-step. And I can't, I
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: can't do this deep exploration of the legacy of fame
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: and how it like you.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: Decided to go on dancing with the stars. You decided
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: to go on secret lives of Mormon wise.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: So I like, I like when people don't take it
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: they take it seriously. They take the show seriously, but
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: they don't take themselves seriously.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: Which I think is a really great combo on that show.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: So that really, I'm like, I, I said, or I
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: was like, I'm going to an event tonight and I'm like,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: I gotta make sure dancing with the stars is taped.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: I'm figuring out how to like vote from my phone,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 3: even if I'm not watching, like send scheduled messages.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: Dancing with the stars is really, I love dancing with
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: the stars.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: You and my mom, man. I got a reminder that
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: it's starting.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: It's me. It's me.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: Everybody else's mom, and weirdly Gen Z on TikTok. They
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: love Dancing with the Stars now. They're adding a lot
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: of TikTok people on, so it has gotten loose.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: I'll have to ask my kids. I know about these things. Well,
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: tell everybody where they can find you on social media,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: where they can find your book.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: So you can find the book, Reality TV for Snobs,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 3: Anywhere fine books are sold, please go to your local bookstore.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: Please go.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: We love a local bookstore.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: A local bookstore. You can even check it out from
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: the library. If your library doesn't carry it, request it.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 3: Or any big box sort of bookstore. I also recorded
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: the audio book.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: So if you want to hear me read the whole
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: book to you, Yeah.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: And do some character voices and imitations of, you know,
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: some of our favorite reality hosts.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: Anywhere you get your audio books, you can find me
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: on Twitter and Instagram at WTFlankStake. And if you're like,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: oh my gosh, so much information, you can always check
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: out my website, AllieBarthwell.com.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: And I will link AllieBarthwell.com and I'll link your Instagram.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: And just before we end WTF flank steak.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: W T flank steak. So I thought what the flank
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: steak would be this. I joined Twitter back in the
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: olden days when it was, you had like a fun username.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: And so I thought that would be a fun, silly
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: username and it's just stuck.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: What the flank steak. Okay.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: I was like, is there a.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: Were your parents cow farmers? No, they were not.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: No, not at all. I just like flank steak and
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: I thought it was funny. Okay.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: Don't hang up. Thanks everybody. And we'll see you next week.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: Bye.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: Bye.