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The Orthodox Therapist Tells the Truth About Marriage & Intimacy · Call Her Tatty

• 0:00
  This is not for Kindle up, so turn it off.
• 0:02
  They give you this book of laws, but no one's handing you a book of like,
• 0:05
  here's how to be emotionally intimate with your partner.
• 0:07
  He's not allowed to wear a wedding ring.
• 0:09
  Why?
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  Because a wedding ring is a chick magnet.
• 0:11
  Being a mother and a wife is enough.
• 0:13
  It's not real.
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  I'm sorry.
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  I have ten children.
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  You know what prepared me for my marriage?
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  My first marriage.
• 0:19
  Bro, they're only with you because you can bink-whirl them.
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  You can always divorce a spouse.
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  You cannot divorce your children.
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  Once you have a child with somebody, you're tied to them for life.
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  No matter how much you hate them.
• 0:29
  Is it halakhly okay to have a threesome?
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  No.
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  No.
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  Lauren Hofstadter, welcome to Caller Tati.
• 0:43
  Thank you, we're excited.
• 0:44
  I'm very excited that you're here because I have watched a lot of your content.
• 0:52
  Obviously read all the NGLs.
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  Every single one, there's like 7,000.
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  You host so many NGLs and a lot of them, I literally go like this.
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  I mean, me too.
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  And we're going to get into all of that.
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  But first, I need to give you more of a formal introduction.
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  Go for it.
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  So Lauren, you are a therapist and you focus primarily on relationships, marriage.
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  and your name obviously is the Orthodox therapist on Instagram.
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  So do you primarily work just with
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  Orthodox couples?
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  Do you work with everybody?
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  So I do work with everybody.
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  I specifically went with
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  the Orthodox therapist only because I see where there's a hole, like where there's like a lack
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  and it's very much within the Orthodox Jewish community.
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  I would say it's within not even just
• 1:50
  orthodox necessarily like there's obviously a spectrum of what the word orthodox means
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  so even like the more let's say not as religious orthodox couples are also struggling like the
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  truth is it's not a jewish problem it's not an orthodox jewish problem it's a worldwide problem
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  where like everybody thinks it's about like the intimacy part of the relationship it's usually not
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  it's usually more so about like communication being able to talk to your partner in a way that
• 2:15
  they can hear you and that you can listen and like it's it's more so about that meaning obviously
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  you've seen the NGL is fine there are a tremendous amount of people that have questions
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  and thank god like they still want to keep like the halakhic side of things which that's kind of
• 2:30
  because there are other people doing what I do right they just don't necessarily infuse it with
• 2:34
  like the Torah halakhic perspective or come at it from a perspective of like how forward I am
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  with my answers um but yeah I saw a hole well can I work with anyone yeah do I have plenty of
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  clients that are not Jewish or not religious.
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  Yeah.
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  But I feel like because of my upbringing
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  and because of the knowledge I have with the Orthodox Jewish community, like that's a space
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  where I can be really helpful.
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  Yeah.
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  So will I work with anyone?
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  Sure.
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  Do I think that I had to
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  like, they always tell you like pick a niche, pick a lane.
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  Right.
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  Okay.
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  So I did, you know,
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  but I would always be open to like more broad.
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  Right.
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  Well, how did you get into this space?
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  Okay.
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  So, like, quick synopsis.
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  I got my degree many, many years ago.
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  Took a break to have my kids.
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  And then, to make a long story short, I kind of got thrown back into it.
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  Once I did, I really wanted to finish, like, to me, finishing, because I have an LMHC, like, I'm a licensed mental health counselor.
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  To me, finishing would mean getting my doctorate.
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  that's what I wanted to do initially, but I was young, I was having babies.
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  It was just not
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  something that I could wrap my head around.
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  So I started looking into PhD programs.
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  There were a few options and the clinical sexology lean really piqued my interest more so, which is,
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  and it's interesting because like, it was never something I thought I would choose,
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  but just more so like, because there are not a lot of people doing it.
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  There are a few
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  female clinical sex, clinical sexologists out of Israel.
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  There are not many in America,
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  very very few um or that are willing to like be as open as i am just because otherwise like
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  there's so much nuance people don't know what you're talking about whatever so once i started
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  the phd program um it took me time to get comfortable to like really embrace it and walk
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  into the space of like i want to be the next dr ruth right literally like that that's that's like
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  really my goal is to like and it's a fine balance like trying to come at this conversation from a
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  place of like modesty and respect etc which is why the ngls are so hard which is why they're not
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  they're in the stories and not like could i could i take them and make them into like a 20 minute
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  probably longer reel yeah i could i could post them i could do that i don't because i'm trying
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  to like keep that behind like almost like a wall so that it maintains the modesty right yeah yeah
• 5:00
  Because I feel like one of the reasons why I was so excited to have you on is because there are plenty of Orthodox women, whether they're Kala teachers or, you know, other sorts of therapists, but they don't actually talk about the things that make people so uncomfortable or they don't even bring it up.
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  And at the end of the day, if you are in a relationship and you're married and there is some sort of dysfunction that's uncomfortable to talk about, especially if you're coming from a super Orthodox background where you were like shamed to even bring it up and now you're married and you feel stuck because you're like, who am I supposed to talk to about this?
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  So I always see this, like, before you get married, at least in the Orthodox Jewish world, they give you this, like, you go to kala classes, you go to chassin classes, they give you this, like, book of laws.
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  But no one's handing you a book of, like, here's how to be emotionally intimate with your partner.
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  Here's how you talk to your spouse.
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  Like, no one's doing that.
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  So there's a tremendous amount of just communication deficit, dysfunction, and, like, and also this narrative that, like, oh, it's just going to happen.
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  It happens naturally.
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  It's not true.
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  Right.
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  It doesn't happen naturally.
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  Relationships are hard.
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  And if you don't know what you're doing, it just gets more confusing and feels like distressing in your relationship.
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  And then you're like, wait, like, am I doing the right thing?
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  Am I in the right space?
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  Is this person the right person for me?
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  It's okay.
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  Like, your person can still be the right person for you.
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  But marriage is hard.
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  It's not like a fairy tale.
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  It's really not.
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  Right, right.
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  Well, I just want to preface this because I spoke to Zoli about this and we thought it was very important we bring this up.
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  That this episode is not going to be talking specifically about halacha.
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  If you are interested in knowing an answer to a question, go contact your local Orthodox rabbi because this is not the podcast for it.
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  And I personally don't believe in looking at the Internet for a halachic answer.
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  So what happens to be that people can DM me.
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  I got from a reputable rabbi.
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  He doesn't he does not like when I say his name, but he gave me his anonymous link that I can give out to people if there's a question that they don't that that they don't feel comfortable asking their own rub.
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  because I said this to you before.
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  I don't want people to feel,
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  again, I don't want to have a halakhic conversation here.
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  There's too much nuance and it just becomes a problem
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  and people make assumptions.
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  But I want people to have a form of who they can ask.
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  That's kind of how this, the whole thing started.
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  Is that like no one's calling their local Orthodox rabbi
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  to ask about like sexual positions.
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  Right.
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  What's, like, like what's okay.
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  Right.
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  Like rabbi, hey, like, like what's, you know what I'm saying?
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  And like some are more progressive than others
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  and they will sit with you and have that conversation,
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  but it's not a comfortable conversation.
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  So I just don't want people,
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  so I don't want people to think that they can't,
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  that if they have no one to ask, DM me, email me,
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  I'll send you a link.
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  You can ask the rabbi directly.
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  Like I get cut out and he has no idea who you are.
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  It's his own, like he's not on,
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  it's not like a social media NGO.
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  Like it goes to his emails,
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  he'll respond to you that way, like whatever.
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  So I'm pretty sure that's how he does it.
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  But well, I mean, for the sake of a lot of my viewers
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  who are either not Jewish or they're not religious,
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  and they're like, what are they referring to,
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  kala classes, like chasen classes, halacha?
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  So in Judaism, specifically in religious Judaism,
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  because that's who primarily practices
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  these sorts of biblical laws on intimacy,
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  we're not going to get into those because, I mean,
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  like we said, not for this podcast.
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  This podcast, which is funny enough,
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  for some reason categorized as a from podcast yes I grew up from I went to Bissiaco but I never
• 8:41
  intended this podcast to necessarily just be for from people um only because my life has been
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  gone in so many directions at this point like I mean I'm not like you know straight from Bissiaco
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  to seminary to married with a bunch of kids like that wasn't my life and I'm very happy that my
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  life was a real journey and I can really find myself and you know people can call me orthodox
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  modern orthodox uh you want to call me not religious you want to call me whatever as long
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  as you call me tati see it's so funny that's what that's what I want to be called that's it
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  see it's so funny all these labels like somebody asked me like what are you I'm like I don't know
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  like I threw it in the chat GPT I promise I'm like I have no I don't I don't know like my husband
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  comes from a prestigious background I come from a I went to like modern orthodox high school in
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  New York okay I don't know like I'm a regular person I don't know what to say yeah I have a
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  lot of kids and like I have a big life and like I don't know where from I have no I I wouldn't even
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  know what to call myself I have no idea right I think I think people love to just slap a label
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  right um you know on people and whether it's based on appearance because clearly like right
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  now i'm not i'm not wearing a wig right um i'm not wearing long sleeves right but there are certain
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  values that i feel like are way more on the from side than maybe someone who dresses more from
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  for sure that that's also another misconception that like um because you're wearing long sleeves
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  and a longer skirt, that means that you're from, well, no, like,
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  from, I come from the inside.
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  It's like the real things that, you know what I'm saying?
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  But like the real things.
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  It really does.
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  The real things that you're doing, like to wear a costume and fake it.
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  Right.
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  I mean, there are, we don't have to.
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  There are plenty.
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  Exactly.
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  A tremendous amount that are wearing the lavash, wearing the clothing
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  and not doing things that align with halacha, you know, with Jewish law.
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  So, yeah, the clothes mean very little.
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  unfortunately yeah I mean I do think that you know a lot of your work also has to do with couples
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  behind closed doors yes and obviously nobody knows what happens behind closed doors besides
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  you your spouse and God that's it correct that's true so a lot of the NGLs and we're just going to
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  tap into it just for a little bit we're not going to get into too much detail right now but you get
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  a lot of anonymous questions and it seems that there's a lot of like dysfunction and common
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  themes so what do you feel is like a common theme that consistently comes up in your ngls
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  so a common theme honestly besides where it gets like raunchier like i mean like the really
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  emotionally deep questions a lot of times is that people feel completely alone they're the only ones
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  going through it, let's say.
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  Like if they're having, I've gotten a lot of like, unfortunately,
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  women struggling with low libido or even men struggling with low libido and feeling like
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  they're broken and not normal and where do I turn?
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  What do I do?
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  It's that whole concept of like
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  feeling very alone in their situation and sometimes even not being able to talk to their
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  spouse about it.
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  Maybe with the intimacy piece, the physical intimacy piece, they do talk to
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  their spouse, but I'm saying other things even.
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  I've had situations where I get questions that
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  are like they don't know where else to turn to get an answer that's why the ngl comes up meaning i
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  don't think that somebody's sending me an anonymous question that's about god forbid like abuse or
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  like things like that like for funsies you know what i mean like somebody actually asked me that
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  like oh i think that your ngls are trolls okay like that's fine like let them be let them let
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  them be a troll but you know what in the in the one percent off chance that they're not right i'm
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  gonna answer them because and sometimes they even write like i really hope you're a troll but
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  like i really hope you're a troll but i'm gonna answer this question because some of them are like
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  so over the top outlandish but like it's happening though like it's it's yeah so
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  so you deal with a lot of couples who are struggling yes and before we even get to that
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  phase of dealing with couples do you do you have patients i guess who are maybe just dating
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  yeah I get a lot of people who are in the dating space and it's I have to tell you so um I did not
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  have to go through the process actually I met my husband through friends so and also 20 I'm married
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  for almost 20 years so 20 years ago it's not the same as it is now like I was actually just talking
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  to somebody about this yesterday like now the world it feels like you're going for a job interview
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  yeah like you have to give like a resume with a photo with with this with that and like how do you
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  know somebody based on like a paper like it's it's it's a it's a very broken system
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  again I don't know that it was like so unbroken 20 years ago I'm sure there were other issues
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  but to feel like like you're interviewing to be somebody's wife or husband is like
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  weird to me it's so unnatural and robotic I don't know yeah I I think that also
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  you know currently it's not as uncommon for people to maybe get married when they're not
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  20 years old true now a lot of people are single for a lot longer true and my question is do you
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  think that modern dating is broken maybe from apps or what has shifted in the past 20 years
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  that makes dating seem so unbearable for some people now because I know that there are plenty
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  of singles out there who dread dating right like really dread it and I don't ever remember dating
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  before my first husband or my second husband that dating was that bad right so what do you think
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  what makes dating these days broken this modern dating world so I think it's a couple things I
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  think number one people not necessarily going into it with the same expectation like going into it
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  I've had this before, unfortunately, with women, more so with women than with guys.
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  Like, guys going into it with, like, not really ready for marriage and, like, just wanting to, like, fool around.
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  That's a big problem.
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  Big problem.
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  And that's, I mean, again, I wasn't, like, in-depth in the Shidduchim world because I didn't have to.
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  But I have friends that were.
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  And, like, that wasn't something that was happening 20 years ago.
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  Why that's happening now and why people think that, like, the apps are Tinder, I'm not sure.
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  You know what I'm saying?
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  like why people think that like especially when you're going through the process i don't think
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  it's as bad as when you're going through a shots plan but when you're when i guess when you're
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  using the apps like number one coming to the table with the with the same expectations of like this
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  is serious and we're here for marriage even on the first date that was the whole point of
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  to begin with right now we're all here for the right reasons um i'll be honest with you one
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  positive thing that i'm seeing in terms of people getting married a little bit later in life is
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  they're being more selective and thinking more.
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  They're not just like feeling that pressure,
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  like I'm 20 years old, I have to get married, et cetera, et cetera.
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  They're more so like
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  thinking more about like, what do I actually want from a partner?
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  Um, I try my best when I get
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  younger girls, meaning 19, 20, 21 that are asking me my opinion.
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  I try my best to like
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  help guide them a little bit but there's also like a certain level of maturity that comes
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  with age and etc so while i'm not i'm not listen i got married at 20 i'm not i'm not recommending
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  you know i'm saying like different strokes for different folks whatever works you know but like
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  yeah there there is something to be said for that shift in that i think people are having more
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  thought putting more thought into it a little bit and not just like jumping into a marriage
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  especially now with like the way divorce is going in our community and all of that like
• 16:47
  for good or bad it's happening a lot and people don't want to have to go through that process so
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  so if you had a guy or a girl come to you and they want to know if they're dating somebody
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  with potential or they're dating with delusion how would you break that down for them okay so
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  So delusion, personally, in my opinion, is if you're dating somebody and where you see the person going is not necessarily realistic.
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  It's almost like you made up this fantasy in your head.
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  Like, let's say you're dating a guy and you, I don't know, this is like, I'm getting this off the top of my head, but like, I made up this delusion that he's going to become a surgeon.
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  You know what I'm saying?
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  Like, that would be delusional.
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  You can't just like make that up.
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  He has to want to do it.
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  Meaning I think that there's an aspect of this where like people need to learn that you cannot make another adult do something they don't want to do.
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  You know what I'm saying?
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  Right.
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  Even in a marriage.
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  Yeah.
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  So potential is when you have that conversation, you talk about things, and you work together as a team.
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  You can't just like make things up.
• 17:59
  Right.
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  And hope they're going to happen.
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  Well, I do think a lot of people date with like rose-colored tinted glasses.
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  For sure.
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  and they can't see the red flags because everything is the same.
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  Like, people love to avoid them.
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  Like, people love to avoid the red flags because they're like,
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  oh, it's just a phase.
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  Oh, it's just, it's nothing.
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  It's not a big deal.
• 18:21
  So that's another form of delusion.
• 18:22
  But what are some green flags that maybe aren't so obvious?
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  So, okay, so I know for me, personally in my own marriage,
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  but in a lot of the couples that I've treated or worked with,
• 18:38
  you need balance in a marriage, right?
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  Like, let's say you have two people with, like,
• 18:41
  that are both high anxiety.
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  It's not going to work.
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  Like, that's really hard.
• 18:46
  So I know a green flag for me that I think is so important in a relationship
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  is having somebody that can kind of,
• 18:55
  rolling with the punches comes to my head,
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  but more so, like, that has that, like, emotional intuition
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  to like know when to make things a big deal and to when not to like when to pull back on certain
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  things um that to me is a huge green flag some people view that as um avoidance sometimes that
• 19:17
  like oh he doesn't want to deal with the hard things well no like to him or to her that's not
• 19:22
  a hard thing to him or to her that's something that like i can manage it it's okay you know
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  I'm saying?
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  So I think having that balance, that dynamic in a marriage, in a relationship is really
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  important.
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  In the from world, Shadchanim are usually involved in setting people up.
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  Right.
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  And at least also, I'm going to speak from experience as well.
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  The Shadchanim focus
• 19:51
  not just on the person but on the family yeah and sometimes people don't even think about the
• 19:59
  individual but they think about the family like oh these families would go so well together
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  they would like oh they're they work so well together but they don't think of the
• 20:09
  individual that they want to set up what kind of damage can that cause that person for for being
• 20:18
  put in that sort of position of, oh, but this person was read to me because our families go
• 20:24
  together.
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  So maybe, maybe this is for me.
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  What kind of damage can it cause?
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  I mean, it very,
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  like potentially can lead to divorce, potentially could lead to like severe
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  relationship issues and trauma.
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  And I'm not going to negate the fact that when you marry somebody,
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  there is a world where you marry their family, meaning you are marrying into certain family
• 20:47
  dynamics what you're explaining happens all the time but it is it's very unhealthy especially
• 20:56
  if i mean i don't have to tell you this i'm sure you've seen this where like let's say you have
• 21:00
  there's a big family and a couple of the kids are different i don't know like why why why does that
• 21:08
  it's like so weird like the smiths and the joneses go well together like what does that mean like
• 21:12
  they're not going to be in the marriage in their house with them living with them helping them
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  navigate difficulties like what if there's like real things there that they have to learn how to
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  navigate and like oh yeah we got married because our families meshed well together like that's
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  i think a lot of shahranim love to play that matching game of oh this is a wealthy family
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  from this part of town and they have a son and then there's another wealthy family from this
• 21:39
  part of town and they have a daughter and they're they would be perfect for each other and a lot of
• 21:45
  times you know parents will tell their children oh like you're you're so young like we know from
• 21:53
  experience like you need this and my question to you because you know you're dealing with people
• 22:00
  who are young you're dealing people who are from like even in the from world like do you think
• 22:05
  that there should be like an age minimum to be like set up like our brains are not fully developed
• 22:12
  until we're at least, what, 25?
• 22:14
  25, yeah.
• 22:14
  So why should somebody make a life-altering decision at 19 years old
• 22:19
  that could potentially set them up for failure?
• 22:21
  I hear exactly what you're saying.
• 22:23
  Okay, first of all, if the parents are in a situation
• 22:26
  where they're telling their child,
• 22:28
  we know what's best for you for the rest of your life,
• 22:31
  then your kid's not ready to date.
• 22:32
  You're making the wrong choice.
• 22:33
  If you feel like as a parent you have to protect your child in that way,
• 22:37
  your kid's not ready.
• 22:38
  That's number one.
• 22:39
  I would, that would be my recommendation if somebody called me and asked me that.
• 22:42
  And like this social pressure to get married.
• 22:45
  So let's say your brain develops at 25.
• 22:47
  So let's use 25.
• 22:48
  That social pressure to get married before 25, especially for a girl.
• 22:54
  So I know for me, the way that it was framed for me when I was a girl was that like, well,
• 23:00
  after 35, advanced maternal age, you want to make sure to have your children before.
• 23:05
  I have friends in their 40s having babies now.
• 23:08
  So like, I don't, I don't think that that's so much a thing anymore.
• 23:11
  And like, again, not through, not through infertility treatments, like naturally getting
• 23:14
  pregnant at 43, you know what I'm saying?
• 23:17
  So I don't think that's as much of an issue anymore.
• 23:19
  Um, I, again, I do think that there's a world where people are starting to get married a
• 23:25
  little bit later because they're having, there's a, there's a certain level of emotional maturity
• 23:29
  that needs to come with marriage.
• 23:31
  That being said, I got married at 20.
• 23:33
  My husband was, I had just turned 20.
• 23:34
  He had just turned 21.
• 23:36
  and we grew together.
• 23:40
  It was rough.
• 23:41
  I'm not going to say it wasn't.
• 23:42
  We were like two little kids playing house.
• 23:44
  But like, okay, like that was part of our marriage dynamic.
• 23:47
  So is there a world where that can be a thing for a couple?
• 23:50
  Sure.
• 23:50
  Right.
• 23:51
  But is there potential where that could also blow up in your face?
• 23:54
  Yeah.
• 23:55
  Did you go to seminary?
• 23:56
  I did.
• 23:56
  But I went to McFallad Esther.
• 23:58
  I don't know if you've heard of it.
• 23:59
  I did hear of it.
• 24:00
  Okay, so.
• 24:00
  I don't know.
• 24:01
  Is it still around?
• 24:02
  No, they closed a few years ago.
• 24:03
  It was totally a party school.
• 24:05
  It was such a fun year.
• 24:06
  It happened to be I met my husband at the end of my senior year of high school.
• 24:10
  Okay.
• 24:10
  And then I was already planning to go.
• 24:11
  Okay.
• 24:12
  And he was only a year older than me, so he had just gotten back and, like, whatever.
• 24:17
  It was awesome.
• 24:18
  It was a great year.
• 24:19
  I definitely grew.
• 24:20
  I definitely did what I needed to do and, like, grew in my own way.
• 24:22
  It wasn't the type that, like, I came home brainwashed or whatever.
• 24:27
  Like, it wasn't that type, which was good.
• 24:31
  But, yeah, I did go to seminary.
• 24:32
  But then I, yeah, I was one of those people that like, because again, because we dated before and then I broke up when I was in seminary and then I came back and he wanted to start dating again.
• 24:39
  And I was like, fine, but we're dating with purpose.
• 24:41
  Right.
• 24:42
  So we got engaged in January and I got married in June.
• 24:46
  So a year, a year post-sem.
• 24:47
  But like I would, that's also another thing.
• 24:49
  Like I was in college, I was doing the things.
• 24:51
  Like I did undergrad and graduate school while getting married and having my kids.
• 24:55
  So like some of them.
• 24:57
  I don't, this dynamic of like, that's coming up now for the, for this generation of girls
• 25:03
  that like, oh yeah, no, like I'm just going to get married.
• 25:06
  And like, I'm not really going to like do anything.
• 25:09
  You're not going to feel fulfilled.
• 25:10
  You're not, it's not healthy.
• 25:11
  It's really not.
• 25:12
  And this dynamic that like, I might get heat for this, but this whole concept, and again,
• 25:16
  I'm saying it for my own personal experience.
• 25:20
  This whole concept of like, being a mother and a wife is enough.
• 25:26
  it's not real I'm sorry I have 10 children okay I know like I feel like I I and I and I love 10
• 25:33
  kids and you're a therapist well right and I'm doing my PhD and and and and I love them and
• 25:40
  they're amazing but I could have had 40 kids and it wouldn't have given me it was like almost like
• 25:47
  I was missing a piece of myself yeah so I think this dynamic that like oh just become a wife and
• 25:52
  a mother and that's enough it's not enough for everyone it's not and i think there are a lot of
• 25:57
  women who and then there's guilt associated with that too right why is it not enough why everyone
• 26:04
  told me that being a wife and a mother would be my sole purpose in life why is it not enough for
• 26:08
  me something wrong with me no that's actually normal yeah i mean listen i don't have any
• 26:14
  children of my own, but I can totally understand, you know, your, your perspective on it.
• 26:22
  And I have
• 26:22
  plenty of friends who have kids and whether they want to admit it or not, when their kids are in
• 26:31
  school and they're not doing anything, I cannot imagine that they're being so fulfilled with,
• 26:38
  you know, just making lunches for their kids and preparing dinner.
• 26:43
  Like, I think it's also healthy for a marriage that,
• 26:47
  because most likely your husband has a job and he's working and he's out for the day.
• 26:53
  And I think that it's so healthy for couples to like have not separate lives,
• 26:59
  but their own things, their own things, their own things.
• 27:02
  Like, and it's so funny because when I got married to my husband, my current husband, I, you know, I was like, you know, I'm trying to figure out like what I want to do.
• 27:14
  And I was working in fashion.
• 27:15
  Then I went into real estate and I kept telling him like, you know, I just want to be a housewife.
• 27:20
  And he's like, listen, like if I can afford it, like go for it.
• 27:23
  Right.
• 27:24
  And then only after working in real estate for like, I would say like a couple of years, I'm like, I can't imagine not having any sort of job, even if it was part time.
• 27:33
  Right.
• 27:34
  Like it's not an all or nothing.
• 27:35
  Just to get out of the house and see other people.
• 27:36
  And I'm like, it's so healthy.
• 27:38
  And also like it's so rewarding that like you feel like you earned not just money and a living, but you earned this like level, like accomplishment.
• 27:50
  Your own purpose.
• 27:52
  Yeah.
• 27:52
  And I think that some people are just like, maybe they don't want to commit to a job or
• 27:57
  maybe they're like afraid that they'll neglect like their children for a job.
• 28:01
  I mean, I don't know what that's like, but I'm sure it's like not going to be easy,
• 28:07
  especially if someone's like a new mom.
• 28:09
  No, it's hard.
• 28:10
  The balance is hard.
• 28:11
  I'm not going to, I'm not going to negate that.
• 28:12
  Like the balance of trying to like have any semblance of a career and raise a bunch of
• 28:18
  kids or even raise one kid.
• 28:21
  It doesn't matter.
• 28:21
  It's hard.
• 28:22
  I'm not going to negate that.
• 28:23
  But what I am saying is that, like, let's normalize that not feeling fulfilled by that is okay.
• 28:30
  You know what I mean?
• 28:31
  Like, it's okay that you need more.
• 28:33
  Exactly.
• 28:34
  It's okay that, like, you don't love making dinners.
• 28:37
  You know what I mean?
• 28:38
  No, I totally hear that.
• 28:41
  Yeah.
• 28:41
  Okay.
• 28:42
  So I want to kind of pivot this conversation into something a little bit deeper, a little bit more, I'm not going to say uncomfortable, but definitely something that many people struggle with and they're just afraid to vocalize it.
• 29:04
  Why is intimacy usually the first thing to break, but the last thing couples want to talk about?
• 29:11
  so it's interesting i think it depends who the conversation is directed to
• 29:15
  when people call me that's the first thing they want to talk about really oh yeah like our
• 29:22
  can i just say the word sex is that yes you can say the word excellent it's great
• 29:26
  um because i sometimes i say physical intimacy whatever it's not fine this is not for kindle
• 29:30
  off so whatever turn it off if you're in your minivan turn it off sorry um the typically when
• 29:37
  people call me, it's their first thing is like, our sex life is declining.
• 29:41
  I don't know what's
• 29:42
  going on.
• 29:43
  My husband's not into it.
• 29:44
  My wife's not into it.
• 29:45
  Or boredom.
• 29:48
  We don't know how to
• 29:48
  think outside the box in terms of our sex life, et cetera.
• 29:51
  I tell this to almost every person
• 29:54
  that calls me and has like that quick consultation call.
• 29:57
  Okay, sure.
• 30:00
  I'm just going to preface this.
• 30:01
  Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.
• 30:02
  That's the truth.
• 30:02
  It's never about that.
• 30:04
  It's never actually
• 30:05
  about the physical intimacy piece usually the physical intimacy piece it is the first sometimes
• 30:11
  usually there's like um like the physical intimacy piece is the surface and there's stuff
• 30:17
  stacked underneath it right but you're only seeing the surface piece right whether it be like i don't
• 30:22
  know a clinically like a medical thing between one or one or both people or you know i'm saying
• 30:27
  like an emotional deficit things going on communication issues like there's it's usually
• 30:32
  never like this goes here and that goes sometimes it is that's true like you know what I mean but
• 30:38
  you know it's usually never I think it's the easiest thing to avoid like if you're upset at
• 30:42
  your wife or upset at your husband or you have unresolved like an unresolved issue I think the
• 30:49
  easiest thing to do in an avoidance um sort of situation is avoid that aspect of your life
• 30:58
  the physical intimacy piece yeah I mean it is the easiest part to avoid I mean I think it
• 31:02
  depends on i again i might get heat i it's fine i get heat all day like if you're a dude or if
• 31:08
  you're a woman i think it's easier for women to avoid it it's not so easy for guys no but i'm
• 31:13
  saying guys don't want to avoid that like to because again i mean listen have i met have i
• 31:19
  met men where like their prominent love language is not physical touch yeah yeah do i find it few
• 31:23
  and far between also yeah yeah you know what i mean like that's just but if there's resentment
• 31:28
  I think that that is something that probably comes up.
• 31:31
  Yes, it does.
• 31:33
  But I do still think that not every guy,
• 31:37
  I'm never going to put like every single guy in the whole world in the same
• 31:41
  basket or boat or whatever.
• 31:42
  But I do think that that physical intimacy piece,
• 31:47
  even though I think there is a misconception that women don't realize that
• 31:51
  their husbands don't just like want the physical part.
• 31:54
  Like they do want that emotional connection.
• 31:55
  If they just wanted the physical part, they would just go find somebody.
• 31:58
  right or do it themselves right you know i'm saying like no like they they want that emotional
• 32:04
  connection and to connect with their wife well what's interesting is that i remember i don't
• 32:09
  remember where i read this but somebody wrote a comment i don't think it was on your on your
• 32:14
  instagram it must have been on someone else's but some guy made a comment well if he's if a guy's
• 32:21
  not gonna get it from his wife he's gonna have to go find it from someone else i hear this a lot
• 32:27
  um and again i don't think that the physical again when when a guy is going outside the marriage
• 32:35
  it doesn't start with the physical intimacy part typically it typically starts with if it's okay
• 32:40
  it's going to be like going to get a happy ending like fine they're going there for a reason
• 32:45
  very clinically and in that case there is no really no like emotional connection there
• 32:51
  some from my understanding i've never been to any of these type of places
• 32:55
  but like it's some like random old lady who's doing this so like they close their eyes they
• 32:59
  lay there they get what they need they bounce you know what i'm saying it's not like they're
• 33:03
  getting an emotional connection relationship with this person right so that's different
• 33:10
  somebody that's when there's like a legit physical affair there even if it's not intercourse but if
• 33:15
  there's some kind of like even just hooking up whatever um a lot of times that starts with an
• 33:22
  emotional connection.
• 33:23
  A lot of times that starts with texting and phone calls and things like that.
• 33:27
  You don't just hop into bed with somebody and like risk blowing up your marriage, risk blowing up
• 33:31
  your life.
• 33:31
  You know what I'm saying?
• 33:33
  It's not, that's not typically, typically not how these
• 33:35
  types of things go.
• 33:36
  And obviously or not, obviously to me, typically those marriages
• 33:42
  started out with cracks.
• 33:44
  You know what I mean?
• 33:45
  Like they started out with broken foundation.
• 33:47
  They started out with a husband and a wife not being able to talk to each other or listen to
• 33:51
  each other in the way that they need um so i mean that's typically what i see in terms of how affairs
• 33:58
  end up happening and working but it's not necessarily starting out or finishing off with
• 34:04
  the physical intimacy piece yeah i do think that sometimes and this is on men more than women
• 34:12
  when men get to maybe a certain point in their life where they're uber successful or they feel
• 34:20
  like this level of entitlement and power,
• 34:23
  a lot of them will go outside of their marriage.
• 34:28
  I don't know if it's because of a power trip
• 34:31
  or they feel like they need validation,
• 34:34
  but what do you think is that thing
• 34:37
  that gets to people's heads
• 34:39
  when they just reach like a certain point in their life
• 34:42
  and if they're married,
• 34:44
  to go outside of their marriage
• 34:47
  to seek another connection with somebody else.
• 34:51
  Okay, so what you're saying is like a two separate question.
• 34:54
  So the financial piece,
• 34:56
  when a guy's uber successful financially
• 34:58
  and starting to go outside,
• 35:00
  that I don't disagree with you.
• 35:02
  I think that it is a certain level of entitlement
• 35:04
  and like almost like haughtiness and like,
• 35:07
  yeah, I'm amazing.
• 35:08
  Like I can get wherever I want, bro.
• 35:10
  They're only with you because you can like bankroll them.
• 35:13
  Right.
• 35:13
  Like, come on, like let's live in reality.
• 35:15
  Like if they weren't trying to get with you when you weren't making a lot of money and they're trying to get with you now.
• 35:21
  Yeah.
• 35:21
  Like let's live in reality.
• 35:22
  Like you're not that cute.
• 35:23
  Okay.
• 35:24
  You know what I mean?
• 35:25
  Like you're not, you're not adorable.
• 35:27
  Like you just have a big bank account.
• 35:28
  So like they're trying to get with you so you can buy them.
• 35:30
  They want a sugar daddy.
• 35:31
  Exactly.
• 35:32
  Fine.
• 35:33
  Um, in the opposite piece, in terms of like in general, why people step outside their marriages after they're married for a very long time.
• 35:41
  again it's usually two people that are not able to communicate i've honestly seen it go both ways
• 35:48
  i've seen guys go outside their marriages i've seen women go outside their marriages it's happening
• 35:52
  it's not just guys what i say is it more common for guys maybe maybe do you think it's because
• 36:00
  guys have less to lose and there's more forgiveness in the world for a guy stepping
• 36:04
  out of the marriage than a woman because the moment a woman steps out of a marriage it's like
• 36:08
  She looks like a harlot.
• 36:10
  It's like the talk of the town.
• 36:11
  Oh, yeah.
• 36:12
  And then it's like, oh, no, she has to get divorced.
• 36:15
  So you know what's funny?
• 36:16
  That whole thing with having to get divorced thing, that's only if like, there's so much
• 36:20
  like, I don't want to get into halacha.
• 36:22
  There's a lot of nuance there.
• 36:23
  It's not so simple.
• 36:24
  You don't just have to get divorced.
• 36:24
  Like, everyone calm down.
• 36:26
  That's number one.
• 36:27
  Number two, yeah, I do think that, but again, this has been going on forever.
• 36:32
  The generalization that like, a girl that sleeps around is, you know, I don't want to
• 36:37
  saying the word but like the whore word a girl that sleeps around is a hoe yeah a girl that
• 36:42
  sleeps around is a hoe but a guy that sleeps around is like a king right well it's interesting
• 36:48
  it takes a guy for a girl to sleep with a guy so why are i mean i guess women are just have been
• 36:54
  put in this sort of category since the beginning of time of like they have to act a certain way
• 36:59
  they have to look a certain way and unless a guy is gay like a girl's gonna be sleeping with the
• 37:05
  guy so it takes the guy to have like for the girl to sleep with like no i agree with you but i i
• 37:10
  don't like again like i don't know why the the generalization is there but it is is it fair
• 37:16
  absolutely not yeah totally not and again i and again definitely i mean definitely on the side of
• 37:22
  for a woman i think i don't think there's always i mean at least in my the cases i've worked with
• 37:28
  there's always an emotional connection with the guy before the physical part right always for the
• 37:34
  woman for the guy it's it's pretty common to be honest with you but it depends on what they're
• 37:40
  looking for again if it's the happy ending thing they're not looking for an emotional connection
• 37:42
  with like an 85 year old woman they don't care right they just want to get get off and like be
• 37:46
  done right but when it's a real relationship same meaning in that way we're we're all human beings
• 37:55
  you know i'm saying yeah so i don't know if you follow this attorney his name is james sexton
• 37:59
  he's on instagram right um so he he loves to like get like really real and just kind of
• 38:06
  spill the tea and well now i have to follow him but okay he's so entertaining um he's also very
• 38:12
  like just he's so eloquent and like put together and he just knows how to present himself and he
• 38:18
  has like a whole sleeve of tattoos which is like funny because it's like you listen to him and then
• 38:23
  you look at him and you're like oh this is such an interesting character that's funny but he sets
• 38:29
  something which I always thought was so interesting which is if a woman if a woman finds that their
• 38:37
  husband is having an affair they always ask the husband do you love her that's like their most
• 38:43
  important thing but when a man finds out his wife is fooling around he asks her did you sleep with
• 38:51
  him yeah and so it's interesting to see where the priorities and what's value to a man and to a woman
• 39:00
  are different yeah for sure i've even had situations um where the husband wanted like
• 39:09
  specific details like very specific details of how it went down oh very like is it possible that
• 39:17
  you could have gotten pregnant like that type of i mean those are very important yeah but she there
• 39:21
  it wasn't but but no like it wasn't you know how like it wasn't a possibility at that point okay
• 39:27
  anyway but like to that extent where like the guy needs to know every single minute of the
• 39:34
  interact of the sexual interaction because they need that level of closure but unfortunately it's
• 39:39
  not going to give you closure right like knowing exactly where every single finger on your wife's
• 39:44
  body was pleased, not going to give you closure.
• 39:46
  I feel like it's just going to cause you nightmares.
• 39:48
  I'm not, and again, if, if, if it was up to me, I would say nobody go outside your marriage.
• 39:53
  Unfortunately, it's happening whether I say it or not.
• 39:56
  Yeah.
• 39:56
  And it's happening everywhere in
• 39:58
  all circles.
• 39:59
  Correct.
• 40:00
  And it might be people are just expecting things out of marriage that just
• 40:06
  maybe aren't realistic.
• 40:09
  I mean, do you, do you have like a take on why do you think this is
• 40:12
  happening or do we just know about it more now i think we know about it more now because even when
• 40:17
  because it's funny like which like okay i had this type of conversation with my mom once in a while
• 40:22
  and she's like sweetie like because i was born in the 80s and i was like oh we grew up in this like
• 40:27
  i grew up in like like long island in like uh suburb suburbia and like whatever she was like
• 40:33
  no honey it was happening then too we just the people just weren't talking about it as much and
• 40:38
  like i'm like ew like like it was probably also much harder to like get in touch with those people
• 40:43
  because you don't have you didn't have cell phone right but then but they were doing everything no
• 40:47
  they were doing everything in person meaning so like how do you call like the house you pretend
• 40:51
  you're like yeah someone else like a telemarketer no but even no but like it was you would have
• 40:56
  it wouldn't be weird because it would be somebody that you're already friends with
• 41:01
  oh meaning it was it would be more oh so like you're like best friends it was right it would
• 41:05
  be like a more intimate problem so it's actually worse i think yeah i think it's worse because i
• 41:10
  feel like now people would be at least smart enough for the most part to like if they're
• 41:13
  gonna fool around like do it not in the community sometimes they're not that smart some people are
• 41:18
  just like they don't like to get out of their doll and almost they just want to keep it keep
• 41:22
  it there keep it tight it's like kind of like messed up i mean like the world is your oyster
• 41:27
  now like if you're gonna do it like no what not only that like smart right why would you go why
• 41:31
  would you do this with somebody that like because okay at least within the jewish orthodox community
• 41:37
  i don't see somebody getting it's actually this okay majority of the time i don't see a couple
• 41:43
  that a guy let's anyone that stepped outside their marriage that then divorces their spouse and
• 41:48
  marries the person they had the affair with i don't see it so much i don't see it so much i see
• 41:52
  it a little i don't see a ton okay and like do you really want to like see the woman you slept
• 41:58
  with like walking in the supermarket next to you if you don't want to like that's weird right like
• 42:05
  i don't know like you can get on a plane again i'm not giving recommendations listen i do you
• 42:09
  well i have a question for you it's a follow-up on on this which is because in the orthodox world
• 42:17
  it is so normal to get married so young do you feel like a lot of people will just have this
• 42:22
  like inner regret for doing so but they're not gonna leave the marriage like yeah like they
• 42:28
  have like maybe five kids and they're like oh I don't have a prenup and now I have a business and
• 42:32
  like what am I gonna do like it's just easier to just like have a second life out of the marriage
• 42:37
  instead of getting divorced and then like I have my kids and then they're gonna be in Shaddokim
• 42:41
  and so like how much of that sort of situation do you see where people are just gonna like
• 42:46
  lead their own life but they have their wife and kids at home or it could be the wife and they have
• 42:51
  their husband and kids at home but their divorce is just too much of a big deal so they'd rather
• 42:56
  just like have their own little side life so i've seen it it does not go well it typically explodes
• 43:02
  at some point um because it's just definitely on the woman's side i think actually not true i think
• 43:09
  on both sides meaning why am i thinking the woman's side is more difficult they're a mother
• 43:13
  they have to be there for their kids etc so like you're trying to like meet your side piece while
• 43:18
  like your kids need to be picked up from school like it's a little more difficult it's hard but
• 43:22
  i think it's also hard for a guy um as well you know maybe it depends on the dynamic in the
• 43:30
  marriage that's the truth um i i i don't know well i think it's easier for a guy to hide it
• 43:41
  than for a girl especially if the guy is let's say traveling for work so in terms of that well
• 43:46
  like i travel for work i'm not having an affair everyone but like just for clear purposes of
• 43:50
  clarity me and my 10 children yeah no i'm good but i think it's also just like but yes you're
• 43:57
  not wrong value on a woman is so much greater than because a woman is supposed to be viewed as like
• 44:04
  proper and like what do you mean a homebody right no but also like this dynamic that like
• 44:08
  men are animals and like right it's like um i just forgot the word being uh monogamy monogamy
• 44:17
  is not possible for men.
• 44:18
  It's not in their DNA.
• 44:20
  It's not meant to be that way.
• 44:22
  Yes, it is.
• 44:22
  Sorry.
• 44:23
  Like, stop making stupid excuses for going outside your marriage.
• 44:27
  And I've always told this to people, to be honest with you, meaning a lot of times they
• 44:30
  get to me before, a lot of times they get to me after they've already had an affair,
• 44:33
  so fine.
• 44:34
  But if they get to me before, I say to them, like, can we, like, I want to say it with
• 44:39
  both, like, me with a couple, can we make an agreement that, like, if we're thinking
• 44:43
  about stepping outside, that, like, we just get divorced?
• 44:46
  like just get divorced just just don't yeah meaning having an affair is so disrespectful
• 44:52
  like next level disrespectful to your partner just divorce them just get divorced and figure
• 44:57
  it out and like don't make it messy and don't make it whatever but like if you don't think
• 45:02
  if you're at that stage and you've already put in the work and you're still thinking about that
• 45:07
  just move on yeah be amicable about it sleeping with somebody else or having an emotional affair
• 45:14
  or any of these things because that's also another problem that people don't seem to think that having
• 45:17
  an emotional connection with another the opposite um gender and again do i do i have guys that are
• 45:25
  friends that i grew up with yes i went to hank my whole life so it's a school in new york so
• 45:30
  yeah like i have guys that like i've known them since i'm 12 and like we yeah but those are like
• 45:36
  guys i'm friendly with we're not having like sex talks right so like there is a there is a line
• 45:39
  there right um they're platonic exactly but do we believe in platonic relationships la la la like
• 45:46
  i think those exist i mean for me i i it's and for good or for bad i've become so guarded
• 45:54
  with external relationships that are not my husband because it's been a big problem and
• 45:59
  not on my end thank god but on other people's end like if i tell you how many people have
• 46:03
  solicited me via dm or tiktok and i look at my like i'll show them to him i'm like what do you
• 46:09
  think about this he's like i don't know and i'm like why would somebody want to get with someone
• 46:12
  with 10 kids like why is that like a pull maybe i don't know no maybe it's a kink they have mommy
• 46:19
  i don't know it's so weird it's to me like i have so much and i don't want to call my kids baggage
• 46:25
  they're not baggage but like baggage right so much going on in my life like why would i be
• 46:31
  a draw for you like it's so weird to me you know what's funny i think i think well now that you
• 46:36
  reminded me um what's so interesting is with the advancement of technology and apps and social
• 46:43
  media connecting to somebody has never been easier yeah and my husband will get dms from people
• 46:53
  girls i don't know if they know he's married we don't post that often together right um just
• 47:01
  because i'm i'm like we're not one of those couples who like so i don't really post my
• 47:04
  husband so much but I think it's pretty clear that I have a lot of kids okay like that's what
• 47:08
  like that's one of my like things I mean maybe I haven't because like my husband so my husband
• 47:12
  doesn't post his kids on social and it's mostly himself and his work but once in a while we'll
• 47:19
  post together but we're not like consistently posting and like that's a whole other discussion
• 47:22
  where like the couples who do their their their fall photo shoots I can't bro like you are on the
• 47:27
  brinks of divorce whether you like it or not no but also like are you like an Instagram like are
• 47:34
  with influencer i don't want to be an influencer i don't know about you well it sounds awful i
• 47:38
  want to influence it sounds like a lot of work it is and a lot of a lot of staged life and i'm not
• 47:45
  about that life right like a fully curated life like everywhere you go take a picture so we can
• 47:49
  use it later yeah for no i have no patience for that i have no time for that like yuck but as i
• 47:56
  was saying now in this day and age with technology social media it's so easy to connect with people
• 48:01
  yeah and i don't know if some of these people who slide into my husband's dms like
• 48:07
  no he's married i would say a big percentage of these people are single um and i'm just
• 48:17
  and like are they soliciting him are they saying things that are you know and and my husband god
• 48:21
  bless him he he sometimes doesn't pick up on like certain like oh no i was really just cues so i was
• 48:27
  very so i was super naive in the beginning too and i'm like totally like she's totally flirting
• 48:31
  with you like she's totally hitting on you he's like you want to respond for me i'm like
• 48:36
  no i would have fun with it hey hey babe what's up hey like you want to hang out like what's
• 48:42
  interesting is i also see this is gonna be a little controversial single girls will go after
• 48:51
  married guys yeah and it's like girl he's taken and i tell this to my husband he's not allowed
• 49:01
  to wear a wedding ring why because a wedding ring is a chick magnet it's actually true it's true and
• 49:06
  that's why i said like the moment you put it on women will look at you it's gross i don't know
• 49:12
  where this came from and i don't know where because women want what they can't have so that's
• 49:16
  true but also like it's almost like we this generation has like lost the sanctity of marriage
• 49:23
  like totally lost what that means yeah and um i've definitely had couples where like they're
• 49:30
  married for a while and nobody had a conversation with them about like what marriage boundaries mean
• 49:35
  and like let's say they'll get like a dm that maybe the husband's like the husband let's say
• 49:40
  in your situation like your husband got a dm and he's like super naive and just like chatting
• 49:46
  but he genuinely doesn't know that it's inappropriate.
• 49:50
  Right.
• 49:50
  He didn't date a lot of people in his lifetime.
• 49:52
  Right.
• 49:52
  It was me, his ex-wife, and maybe like two or three other girls
• 49:56
  that he went on one or two dates with.
• 49:57
  Right.
• 49:57
  That is his extent of his dating career.
• 50:00
  Was he raised in a way where like he never had access to girls as a kid?
• 50:03
  No, no.
• 50:04
  He grew up modern orthodox.
• 50:05
  Okay.
• 50:05
  But like he was always like the good sheltered.
• 50:08
  So I find more so with guys and girls, honestly,
• 50:13
  that had zero, zero interaction with the opposite gender,
• 50:17
  besides like siblings, before they got married,
• 50:20
  and nobody sits with them and says like,
• 50:22
  hey, it's not so normal for you to like DM dudes
• 50:27
  or like text men or try to like,
• 50:31
  like if you're thinking about emotionally connecting
• 50:34
  with somebody of the opposite gender,
• 50:36
  that's a thought that you should be having.
• 50:38
  Why do I need that?
• 50:40
  Right.
• 50:40
  Do you know what I'm saying?
• 50:40
  like nobody's again it's nobody sits with couples and says here's how you develop a relationship
• 50:45
  with your spouse here's what's normal here's what's not here's what's and again this is very
• 50:49
  clearly like i hate the word normal but like this is normal you know i'm saying to know that you
• 50:53
  shouldn't be reaching out to the opposite gender is something that is a marriage norm yeah and a
• 50:58
  lot of couples don't realize that that's weird yeah well speaking of boundaries
• 51:04
  A lot of couples get married very young, and especially if you're coming from any super religious background, it is expected to have children pretty fast.
• 51:18
  I think that with the increase and the evolution of technology, doctors have figured out ways for women to have children when they're older.
• 51:33
  And a lot more women these days are just more comfortable waiting.
• 51:39
  But why is it that everybody becomes the fertility police when people get married?
• 51:45
  People are so interested in knowing, oh, is she pregnant yet?
• 51:49
  Is she pregnant yet?
• 51:50
  Is she pregnant yet?
• 51:50
  What is she going to have kids?
• 51:51
  It's so highly inappropriate, especially that we're living in a day and age where infertility
• 51:55
  is a very real reality.
• 51:58
  A lot of people are going through it.
• 52:02
  I'm sure you've heard of on Instagram, I was supposed to have a baby?
• 52:05
  Yes.
• 52:05
  Okay.
• 52:06
  So she really tries, I forgot her name, who runs it.
• 52:09
  She's a doctor, Dr. Amy something, I forgot.
• 52:11
  but she really tries to bring awareness and she actually posts something around like thanksgiving
• 52:16
  like things not to ask people at thanksgiving dinner when are you having a baby when are you
• 52:21
  this like unfortunately i had a client actually um that found that she was pregnant right before
• 52:26
  thanksgiving she was so excited about it whatever and she ended up having a miscarriage like
• 52:30
  that like she was in the process of miscarrying through thanksgiving and somebody asked her
• 52:36
  oh like oh when you guys can have a baby like we're so excited for you and it was like you
• 52:41
  never know what's going on even you know it's interesting even the concept of um i don't know
• 52:45
  if you know this but my last baby has a congenital heart defect okay so when i was pregnant with we
• 52:50
  found that at 20 weeks when i was 20 weeks pregnant when i was pregnant with her people
• 52:54
  always say like oh and also i had six girls in a row that was another thing so everyone's like oh
• 52:58
  it should be like they used to say like it should be a boy and fine now it was like who cares if
• 53:03
  it's a boy or girl to just be healthy and i'm thinking well she's not but thank you so much
• 53:07
  for pointing that out.
• 53:08
  Right.
• 53:08
  So it's just like,
• 53:09
  now when I see a pregnant person,
• 53:10
  only because I've been
• 53:11
  through it myself,
• 53:12
  I just say,
• 53:13
  you look amazing.
• 53:13
  Like, that's what you should say.
• 53:15
  You look great.
• 53:16
  I hope you're feeling good.
• 53:17
  Even I hope you're feeling good,
• 53:18
  don't say.
• 53:18
  Usually they're not feeling good.
• 53:19
  They feel like crap.
• 53:20
  They feel like crap.
• 53:22
  They don't want to be there.
• 53:23
  Even if they look,
• 53:24
  even if in your head,
• 53:26
  this person's like,
• 53:26
  oh, you're so cute
• 53:27
  and I love your bump
• 53:28
  and you look amazing.
• 53:29
  She doesn't feel that way.
• 53:29
  She feels like she has
• 53:30
  a big tuchus
• 53:31
  and she feels like
• 53:32
  she looks like an elephant
• 53:34
  and like it's not cute.
• 53:35
  So like just say nothing, just say you look great and that's it and walk away.
• 53:38
  And don't ask, again, with the whole infertility thing, like don't ask questions.
• 53:42
  You don't know what these people are going through.
• 53:44
  But I have seen a trend, which I think is great, thank God.
• 53:47
  These couples that are getting married super young are choosing to stay on birth control for like the first two years of marriage.
• 53:53
  That's a start, which is not necessarily bad.
• 53:56
  I just had a couple recently where the girl didn't go to SEM, got married right out of high school.
• 54:01
  So she like was turning 19.
• 54:03
  The husband's a little older.
• 54:05
  I think he's like 25 and I was actually her college teacher and we were just discussing it
• 54:10
  and she was like yeah we're gonna stand birth control for like at least two years because I
• 54:13
  want to finish school and I want to like you a sham like one person that actually like wants to
• 54:17
  like do other like do something because honestly I'm not gonna say that like going back at 37
• 54:23
  was it 37 37 or 38 to start my PhD is not annoying it's really annoying I wish I would
• 54:30
  have just pushed myself to just do it when I was in my early 20s it would have been hell it would
• 54:34
  have been really hard by the time i was 26 i would have been a doctor i've been done now i'm sitting
• 54:39
  writing dissertations at 39 where like my brain is like atrophy do you know what i mean i i hear
• 54:45
  that i feel like a lot of this fantasy of getting married and having kids is kind of implanted in
• 54:53
  young women's brains totally and nobody tells them what it's really like to get married like
• 55:01
  shunna re-shunna no that's a year of hell that nobody wants to tell you about and it's not that
• 55:06
  it's bad it's you are literally taking your own life and you have to adapt to live with a guy
• 55:16
  which most of these girls are not doing before marriage and so you have to you're basically
• 55:23
  sucked into a whole new world that is so foreign to you and then on top of that have a baby which
• 55:30
  is going to change your life forever.
• 55:32
  And I always say this, you can always divorce a spouse.
• 55:34
  You
• 55:35
  cannot divorce your children.
• 55:36
  Once you have a child with somebody, you're tied to them for life.
• 55:39
  No matter how much you hate them.
• 55:40
  Yeah.
• 55:41
  Once you have children, you are bound to your spouse,
• 55:45
  whether you stay married or not for the rest of your life, because God willing, your child will
• 55:50
  get married and have grandchildren and you're, they're going to share grandparents and you will
• 55:55
  be glued to that family for forever yeah for sure so it is so important that you end up marrying
• 56:02
  somebody where you it sounds weird but like even if you don't stay married together like you can
• 56:09
  still have a relationship with them because like you you share the same blood yeah yes i i think
• 56:15
  that people don't realize that they think when they get divorced like they're i mean unfortunately
• 56:19
  this does happen where they think they can get divorced and then one parent just like is absent
• 56:25
  and it's really sad it's not fair to the kids meaning when you get divorced you don't get to
• 56:28
  divorce your children right unfortunately you're always their parent so yeah but for sure yes when
• 56:33
  you when you get married and have kids you're definitely tied to your spouse forever yeah that
• 56:40
  that is that is a next level commitment yeah and i don't know why people are told to have children
• 56:48
  to help solve marital issues.
• 56:50
  Oh, it's the worst, by the way.
• 56:52
  Could we talk about that for a second?
• 56:54
  Where does that come from?
• 56:56
  Because that's not a solution.
• 56:58
  I mean, I don't think there's any therapist out there
• 57:01
  that's going to say that's good.
• 57:02
  So who says that it is good?
• 57:03
  I don't know.
• 57:04
  Is it rabbis?
• 57:06
  I mean, because at the end of the day,
• 57:09
  the Orthodox world is not perfect.
• 57:12
  It has its flaws.
• 57:13
  And I think that we need to stop pretending
• 57:16
  that we need to do something like this is going to be very controversial people think that if
• 57:22
  they live a certain halakhic way of life that god will give them this amazing life and when life
• 57:28
  doesn't turn out that amazing and shit hits the fan they're like well i did it right and it didn't
• 57:34
  work so now to hell with everything which is such a inaccurate way to approach life in my opinion
• 57:42
  for sure but like people believe too much in a system that will promise them bracha and this and
• 57:49
  that and then when it doesn't happen they're heartbroken and they're like they're like but
• 57:53
  but but that's what i believed so it's not true anymore so everything about this isn't true but
• 57:57
  then you've i'm 100 sure you've heard that like sometimes you can daven and daven and pray and
• 58:02
  pray and pray and sometimes the answer is no because that's what's best for you meaning like
• 58:06
  was it easy for me to get the diagnosis of my bb's diagnosis at 20 weeks pregnant no it was
• 58:12
  not easy for me it was my biggest fear ever in life to have a child with a medical condition
• 58:16
  my biggest fear ever but you know what like sometimes you get a glimpse like i'm sure you've
• 58:23
  heard of this also i forgot who says this muscle but like the concept of like needle point where
• 58:27
  like the back is all knots and like ugly and whatever and then when you turn it around it's
• 58:31
  like this beautiful picture sometimes you get to see the picture sometimes not always but sometimes
• 58:36
  and like part of life is like going through those tougher times and navigating it and figuring it
• 58:42
  out and you want to hope that the person that's standing next to you can do that for you because
• 58:48
  if not like then what you can't both be bugging out all the time like thank god in that dynamic
• 58:53
  like my husband is one of his amazing like milas like his his features positive features is that
• 59:01
  he has like steadfast bitajon unless it's in front of his face so like while i was pregnant and i was
• 59:07
  the one like crying all the time and a mess and whatever like he was like no it's gonna be okay
• 59:12
  and i'm like yeah easy for you to say bro like i'm walking around with like a ticking time bomb
• 59:15
  in my belly and i don't know what's gonna happen over here but then once she was born i was like
• 59:20
  oh my god like it's really okay like we're okay it's gonna be fine and that's when he started
• 59:25
  like bugging out like he doesn't do well with blood and surgeries and all these things like
• 59:27
  He's not a medical guy.
• 59:29
  So, like, it's finding that balance within your relationship of, like, I can hold this bag and he can hold that bag.
• 59:34
  Like, even this morning, I totally forgot one of my kids had a Hanukkah production.
• 59:38
  And, like, I get a text from the – and, like, to the point where I put it in my calendar for tomorrow.
• 59:42
  Okay?
• 59:42
  Oh, God.
• 59:43
  So, like, I'm, like, the teacher texts me.
• 59:45
  She's, like, hey, so your daughter told me that, like, you think it's tomorrow.
• 59:48
  No, no, it's today.
• 59:50
  And I'm, like, I'm all the way in downtown Miami.
• 59:52
  Like, I can't do this today.
• 59:53
  So, like, I'm calling my husband.
• 59:54
  I'm calling my husband.
• 59:55
  And, like, thank God he was able to pick it up for me.
• 59:56
  Like he went and she was so excited because he also never goes to these things.
• 59:59
  Like it's really a mom thing that I go to them because I have more flexibility in my schedule.
• 1:00:03
  But like, okay, like you have to find somebody that can like catch you when you make mistakes and whatever.
• 1:00:08
  Life is not, is so far from perfect.
• 1:00:11
  Right.
• 1:00:11
  You know, and like that's what you have to hope that you find somebody that you can like rely on through like the annoying things too.
• 1:00:17
  You know, not just the fun parts of like vacation and I don't know, simcha and whatever.
• 1:00:21
  Like there's also, that's the reality of life.
• 1:00:24
  Right.
• 1:00:24
  You know.
• 1:00:24
  Well, we know that there's never really a good time to have children.
• 1:00:29
  Correct.
• 1:00:29
  There's always something happening.
• 1:00:30
  There's always career shifts and life things.
• 1:00:35
  And there's never like a date where you can say, okay, this is a great day for me to conceive.
• 1:00:39
  I mean, also, who says you're going to conceive on that day?
• 1:00:41
  Like, it's so cute that you think you're ready.
• 1:00:42
  And also, the whole concept of being ready for something you've never done before, I don't know how that works.
• 1:00:48
  Yeah.
• 1:00:48
  Like, even marriage.
• 1:00:49
  Like, how are you ready to, like, how do you prepare for that?
• 1:00:54
  You know what prepared me for my marriage?
• 1:00:55
  My first marriage.
• 1:00:56
  Right.
• 1:00:57
  Okay.
• 1:00:57
  So you knew what not to do.
• 1:00:59
  I knew that I had to just expect certain things because you can marry as many guys as you want in your lifetime,
• 1:01:08
  but certain things will always be consistent.
• 1:01:12
  And maybe your expectations of them being a certain way, you know, a little bit like this or a little bit like that,
• 1:01:17
  like it'll be different, but like the socks never end up in the hamper.
• 1:01:21
  They're always next to the hamper.
• 1:01:22
  The toilet seat will be left up.
• 1:01:23
  Right.
• 1:01:23
  Like all those things that like as a 20 year old bride pissed me off.
• 1:01:28
  I'm like coming into this marriage.
• 1:01:30
  I'm like, okay, whatever.
• 1:01:31
  Like I, right.
• 1:01:32
  Like I know, I know, I know.
• 1:01:34
  Right.
• 1:01:35
  So there's never really a good time for anybody to have kids.
• 1:01:40
  Right.
• 1:01:41
  But when would you say a couple is definitely not ready to have kids?
• 1:01:48
  Is there any specific time?
• 1:01:49
  When they're thinking about divorce?
• 1:01:51
  Besides for divorce.
• 1:01:52
  That would be really.
• 1:01:52
  Maybe they still need to work on their marriage, but is there any, like, red flag that if a young couple is watching this that you could say, maybe you're not ready?
• 1:02:05
  I'm thinking, like, a specific, very specific red flag.
• 1:02:09
  Hmm.
• 1:02:12
  Again, I don't know if there's something super specific.
• 1:02:14
  Unless you really feel like your marriage is broken and there's no trust there, you don't want, again, like what you said before,
• 1:02:20
  in terms of like once you have a child with somebody,
• 1:02:23
  you're tied to them for life.
• 1:02:24
  So make sure you're going into that and feeling good about that.
• 1:02:27
  I want to be tied to this person for the rest of my life.
• 1:02:30
  If you're thinking, not sure, I don't know.
• 1:02:34
  Like that's not, don't marry that person.
• 1:02:36
  Work on your marriage first.
• 1:02:38
  And is there a world where you can work on your marriage through pregnancy?
• 1:02:40
  Sure.
• 1:02:41
  Is that going to be easy?
• 1:02:42
  No.
• 1:02:43
  You don't feel like yourself.
• 1:02:45
  Your marriage, there is a shift in your marriage when you're pregnant.
• 1:02:48
  Physically things change.
• 1:02:49
  emotionally things change there's other variables it's just it's not great time to do it could you
• 1:02:55
  sure but i think what you're saying in terms of like i want to continue to build a life with this
• 1:03:02
  person so solidifying that would be for me to have a child with them that's something you really
• 1:03:08
  should think about before just jumping into it and again do a lot of people get pregnant
• 1:03:13
  without planning yes it happens and i would love people do it because that's what you're supposed
• 1:03:19
  to do right like and then they don't think but like it became almost like an accessory to the
• 1:03:27
  marriage where it's like yeah like you have kids like that's why you got married and it's you know
• 1:03:31
  people will get married for a multitude of reasons not just to have kids and i think it's a very
• 1:03:36
  foreign concept especially in the from world that like people want companionship and there are
• 1:03:41
  plenty of people who are either widowed or divorced or you know they just want to get remarried and
• 1:03:47
  they're not necessarily going to have more children so there is definitely a reason for
• 1:03:51
  people to still get married but i don't think that people need to go into a marriage thinking like
• 1:03:56
  oh like i am getting married because i want children because you could want children maybe
• 1:04:02
  not with that person yeah i agree with you i think it's wanting to have kids is it not a good reason
• 1:04:09
  to get married.
• 1:04:11
  It's just not, it's really not rushing a relationship because you want to have
• 1:04:15
  kids.
• 1:04:15
  Not a good reason to get married.
• 1:04:17
  Um, because again, I think people don't realize
• 1:04:22
  like whether you're 20 and dating or 40 and dating, I mean, 50 is already pushing it, but like,
• 1:04:28
  let's say 20, 30, 40s, nobody says that it's going to be any easier for you to conceive versus not
• 1:04:35
  at that stage or that when you want it to happen, that it for sure will happen or whatever.
• 1:04:39
  you know what I'm saying like whatever it is um so again like trying to push something like trying
• 1:04:44
  to fit uh like a round like a round thing into a square hole like it's it's stupid it's not smart
• 1:04:51
  and what do you tell people who are yentas who always want to know about everybody's fertility
• 1:04:57
  journey stopping a yenta also people are posting about it people are posting about it but I feel
• 1:05:03
  like the ones who post about it most of the time they want to just get awareness out there that
• 1:05:10
  like some but some are there are definitely some influencers that like will post a picture where
• 1:05:15
  like you can kind of see they're pregnant but like kind of nah and then they because they want to get
• 1:05:20
  the dms of like oh are you pregnant are you pregnant they want clout exactly well they want
• 1:05:24
  the attention yeah and then they're like oh like you'll notice my tiny bump like you're so cute
• 1:05:30
  like that's so sweet like like get out of here like stop like obviously you're doing it for the
• 1:05:35
  attention you want people to know that you're pregnant if you didn't then only film yourself
• 1:05:38
  from here up it's so funny because I feel like anytime I ever post something and it's always
• 1:05:42
  after I ate and I'm like clearly a little bloated like I always have to make sure that like I have
• 1:05:48
  to angle myself or hide behind my husband or something because I am like I've I've had one
• 1:05:54
  time in my life someone came up to me said bishat tova I've had it multiple times and I'm like
• 1:06:00
  I ate I'm not pregnant it's so inappropriate there's no world where it's ever appropriate
• 1:06:06
  I'll be so honest with you and like there was one time where someone came up to me
• 1:06:11
  and um they're like oh like when are you gonna have kids and in the moment I was just so like
• 1:06:17
  annoyed just for whatever reason and my response here was you know what my husband and I we just
• 1:06:24
  try to like right before we got here so like i hope it works right like i've also said what do
• 1:06:29
  you want from me like it because at the end of the day asking somebody about children is basically
• 1:06:34
  asking them like oh like what do you do in your bedroom what like when did you last do it like
• 1:06:38
  are you doing it right like why why don't we ask people oh like how is your marriage going right
• 1:06:43
  like when are you getting divorced like you're clearly unhappy super inappropriate that's also
• 1:06:47
  but i don't know why people don't realize that that's also inappropriate like that meaning why
• 1:06:51
  that not like no one's ever going to walk up to someone and be like hey how's your marriage
• 1:06:56
  right but they're going to walk up and say when you're having kids they're both the same they're
• 1:06:59
  both really bad um yeah i don't i don't know i don't know why people are weird and inappropriate
• 1:07:05
  i don't know maybe people just need like i don't know hawk something to talk about they need hawk
• 1:07:12
  they need hawk listen once in a while there's always a juicy story that goes around in the
• 1:07:16
  community and everyone's like oh my god oh my god like did you hear about this guy and did you
• 1:07:19
  about this oh my god and like whatever and usually it's just like things that are just like so out of
• 1:07:25
  like the norm of like our usual day-to-day i mean typically it's infidelity related stuff
• 1:07:31
  right those are the things that people right um you know rarely is it ever like god forbid like
• 1:07:37
  sex abuse related things like that but that's also like major again it's things that are outside the
• 1:07:43
  norm that we would hope and expect that you know within the jewish community isn't happening but
• 1:07:48
  again it is so like let's live in like either we can keep you know wearing a mask or wearing like
• 1:07:53
  blinders and pretending like okay okay okay but like in reality like there's a world a whole world
• 1:07:57
  out here right now so it's kind of like either we live in reality or stay behind your blinders but
• 1:08:03
  like it's not gonna it's not gonna make the surroundings stop happening right that's the
• 1:08:08
  main issue i think right i mean there's so many topics we can get into we can get into
• 1:08:12
  you know financial compatibility because you know that's something that a lot of us were just
• 1:08:17
  not taught to have these conversations before we got married.
• 1:08:21
  Like, how do you spend money?
• 1:08:22
  Are you a saver?
• 1:08:23
  Are you a spender?
• 1:08:25
  Not even that.
• 1:08:25
  Like, how to adult?
• 1:08:26
  Yeah.
• 1:08:27
  Like, how to financially adult?
• 1:08:28
  I was never taught how to do that.
• 1:08:29
  Like, taxes?
• 1:08:30
  Like, what was that?
• 1:08:30
  Like, it took me, like, in my 30s to know how to deal with that.
• 1:08:34
  Like, and again, like, thank God.
• 1:08:36
  Like, my husband's, like, semi-savvy, but, like, also not.
• 1:08:40
  Like, so, like, between the two of us, like, you have to hire the right people to, like,
• 1:08:42
  help you navigate it.
• 1:08:43
  But, yeah, nobody teaches.
• 1:08:44
  Because I mean, I hope that I'm able to give it over to my kids now that I, you know, like, and obviously if no one tells you how to do it, you make mistakes.
• 1:08:51
  Right.
• 1:08:51
  Sometimes very expensive mistakes.
• 1:08:53
  Yeah.
• 1:08:53
  And it's just like, wouldn't you rather teach your kids or like have somebody teach them how to navigate this instead of have them making mistakes that sometimes they're going to learn from obviously.
• 1:09:03
  But like if we can avoid it by just giving them information, knowledge, like, you know.
• 1:09:09
  I mean, there's so many categories that we can talk about, like in-laws and boundaries and parents.
• 1:09:16
  And, you know, I think a lot of these sort of, you know, topics or episodes in itself.
• 1:09:23
  And like I sent you the outline, you're like, wow, this is going to be hours of schmoozing.
• 1:09:28
  I know.
• 1:09:28
  I'm like, this can be like literally four podcasts.
• 1:09:30
  Literally.
• 1:09:31
  And they're all important.
• 1:09:33
  That's the thing.
• 1:09:33
  I know we're running out of time, but what I want to close off with you is, you know, one of the aspects of what makes you unique as somebody who is Orthodox and on Instagram.
• 1:09:50
  And you do get these NGLs that I would say make you very different in terms of you answer them and you're honest.
• 1:09:58
  um do you want to share any of your recent ngls which you thought was like a interesting or
• 1:10:06
  maybe not such a common question you'd rather a not common question or more common question
• 1:10:14
  you could give me either whichever one you want okay so common questions i get unfortunately are
• 1:10:18
  a lot of sexual dysfunction related things because i don't think it's meaning on the guy's
• 1:10:23
  side and on the woman's side meaning in terms of like pelvic floor dysfunction and things like that
• 1:10:27
  for a woman or for a guy, honestly.
• 1:10:29
  And then something like premature ejaculation,
• 1:10:33
  things like that for guys.
• 1:10:36
  I don't think there's enough information
• 1:10:37
  in the Jewish community.
• 1:10:38
  I don't think people realize that it,
• 1:10:41
  I mean, I think now,
• 1:10:43
  once they're asking me the question,
• 1:10:45
  they really like, oh, that's a thing.
• 1:10:46
  Like that's like, they don't even,
• 1:10:47
  they don't even know to think that it's a thing.
• 1:10:51
  Do they just think that they're the only one
• 1:10:53
  with the problem?
• 1:10:54
  Medically, they don't know it's a problem.
• 1:10:56
  Oh, so they were like really clueless.
• 1:10:58
  Yeah, totally.
• 1:10:59
  I noticed that.
• 1:10:59
  I noticed a lot of your NGLs.
• 1:11:02
  I had a couple that couldn't consummate their marriage for over a year
• 1:11:05
  because she had a pelvic floor dysfunction and they didn't know.
• 1:11:07
  They didn't know what was wrong.
• 1:11:09
  So they just kept trying and she was in agony
• 1:11:13
  and she had a legit pelvic floor dysfunction like to the extreme.
• 1:11:18
  To the extreme.
• 1:11:19
  And they kept seeing doctors.
• 1:11:20
  They weren't not doing anything.
• 1:11:22
  Maybe it was more than a year.
• 1:11:23
  They kept seeing doctors.
• 1:11:24
  they kept trying and everyone just kept saying like, no, it's okay.
• 1:11:27
  It'll go away eventually.
• 1:11:28
  It's not okay.
• 1:11:29
  Painful sex is not okay.
• 1:11:31
  Just to be clear, if I could walk away with one thing,
• 1:11:36
  painful sex, other than maybe the first for the woman, the first maybe one or two times
• 1:11:42
  is not okay.
• 1:11:43
  If you have that past that, you need to find, go to your OBGYN, see a pelvic floor
• 1:11:49
  physical therapist, maybe a urogynecologist, get information.
• 1:11:52
  And if you don't know how,
• 1:11:54
  DM me.
• 1:11:55
  I will help you because it's a big problem that people are not getting the information
• 1:11:58
  that they need.
• 1:11:59
  Obviously, you know, I get a ton of like, is it halakhly okay to have a threesome?
• 1:12:05
  No, no.
• 1:12:08
  You know what I mean?
• 1:12:09
  Like, I think, I think these are like guys in like their mother's basement who are just
• 1:12:14
  like bored and horny and they're just like, ew, like, what can I ask Lauren?
• 1:12:19
  Like, you think she's going to answer this?
• 1:12:21
  So I stopped answering a lot of them because or I get a tremendous amount of halachic nuanced questions.
• 1:12:27
  And with those, again, if you want to know the answer I got initially, scroll back.
• 1:12:33
  I know there's a lot of bubbles there.
• 1:12:35
  I think there's almost 7,000 questions now.
• 1:12:37
  Yeah.
• 1:12:37
  So in the beginning, I really was in contact.
• 1:12:40
  I mean, I still am.
• 1:12:41
  That's the truth.
• 1:12:41
  But in contact with my Rav, literally every day sending him screenshots.
• 1:12:46
  And he would answer.
• 1:12:48
  And then it got to a point where he called me.
• 1:12:49
  He's like, listen, I'm not saying you shouldn't do what you're doing, but some of these questions are super duper nuanced.
• 1:12:55
  Right.
• 1:12:55
  And you can't post an answer for the general public.
• 1:12:59
  Right.
• 1:13:00
  Like if I get one more person asking me, and again, this is going to be controversial, if oral sex is okay on a woman.
• 1:13:06
  I've gotten this question 4,000 times.
• 1:13:09
  4,000.
• 1:13:10
  I've answered it already.
• 1:13:11
  I'm not answering it here.
• 1:13:12
  Sorry.
• 1:13:13
  Go check it on Instagram.
• 1:13:15
  Or go to your rabbi.
• 1:13:16
  Or ask your rabbi.
• 1:13:18
  but what was interesting was like and then i had a couple of weeks ago um i mean just to be clear
• 1:13:23
  this is for like the orthodox people who yes want to know the halal of it so there are plenty of
• 1:13:30
  people in the orthodox world who just don't care for it which is fine right do you do you exactly
• 1:13:36
  so or even the concept of zara levitala spilling seed i get tons of questions about that and i get
• 1:13:41
  tons of heat for it because again i'm not going to be the person that's like sure no problem just
• 1:13:47
  shoot it all over the place.
• 1:13:48
  That's not going to be me.
• 1:13:50
  I'm not going to be the person to say that.
• 1:13:52
  Right.
• 1:13:52
  Are there nuances to that?
• 1:13:54
  Right.
• 1:13:54
  Yes, there are nuances to that, but that's when you
• 1:13:58
  have two choices.
• 1:13:58
  You either call your own Ruv and explain the situation.
• 1:14:01
  Actually, you have three
• 1:14:02
  choices.
• 1:14:03
  Call your own Ruv, explain the situation, DM me or email me and get the NGL link for this
• 1:14:08
  Ruv that I know is reputable and can help you.
• 1:14:10
  And if he can't help you, he will connect you with a
• 1:14:12
  rub that can or ask me and we'll figure i'll ask her up for you i'll figure it out for you if you
• 1:14:17
  even an an ngl link to a rub is still too much for you we'll figure it out but don't not like
• 1:14:24
  don't not ask and that's kind of why the ngls have slowed down a little bit because
• 1:14:28
  the ones that i know are more nuanced answer either all right this answer is nuanced
• 1:14:34
  but here is what i've been told or i just skip it completely because i'm just like i've already
• 1:14:39
  said this i don't want to keep saying the same thing again but yeah i i do get a lot of questions
• 1:14:45
  regarding um different sexual related physical intimacy of sex related things and halakha
• 1:14:52
  because again i i don't think that enough people are coming out and talking and and saying like
• 1:14:57
  no this is this is what you should be doing because it's also nuanced right so it's hard
• 1:15:03
  well i think also there's just such a lack of knowledge before people even start dating
• 1:15:09
  about any of this and then they're like you're going from first base to home run in one evening
• 1:15:16
  and then you're like trying to like take it all in and then you have questions like luckily like
• 1:15:23
  i was never in a in a place where like i was in that position of like i know nothing to like oh
• 1:15:30
  now you're married and you're just going home with a guy and like i was never in that like
• 1:15:35
  super sheltered right place and i can't imagine what i would how i would handle that because
• 1:15:43
  that's a lot and that is probably traumatizing for some people i've had cases where where i get
• 1:15:49
  couples and the woman is full-blown traumatized but that's why which you have to hope it's getting
• 1:15:54
  a little tight like maybe one percent better that the guy has a good chasim teacher and will
• 1:15:58
  explain to him that you don't have to have sex on the wedding night you don't have to that's not
• 1:16:03
  it's that you don't have to you can get to know your wife physically talk to her she's not just
• 1:16:09
  your receptacle right well what's interesting is a lot of people assume all couples across the board
• 1:16:18
  will have sex on their wedding night but there are plenty of people who are totally not even in
• 1:16:22
  the religious world who they just won't because they're tired you fall asleep and and i think that
• 1:16:28
  having this sort of pressure on yourself yeah that too by the way which is like
• 1:16:34
  crazy the pressure of the performance also is like not great for anybody and for a lot of people it's
• 1:16:40
  their first time correct so like they don't know what the hell they're doing correct god okay yes
• 1:16:46
  yeah it's like really it's and again it could even be their first time like holding hands it's crazy
• 1:16:52
  their first time hugging yeah in a romantic way it's crazy it's it's not the most healthy and
• 1:16:58
  like that's also part of why like as a why i became a college teacher was literally for this reason
• 1:17:02
  and part of it is like i like they the way it works it's like a package fine they get a certain
• 1:17:07
  amount of of appointments whatever i always tell them like we're saving the last one for after the
• 1:17:12
  wedding in case you need it and we do one with the husband oh because i want to make sure that
• 1:17:17
  everyone's on the same page right meaning he does his own class and classes also but i want to make
• 1:17:21
  sure that like you're good she's good we're all good we know what we need to know yeah and like
• 1:17:28
  whatever because otherwise again it comes down to a communication deficit and then there's trauma
• 1:17:32
  and then there's i can't even tell you like this could be a whole nother hour of like crazy stories
• 1:17:37
  i've heard about situations like this where it really fractures a couple when they don't know
• 1:17:45
  what they're doing physically and then the woman doesn't feel safe the guy feels rejected exactly
• 1:17:49
  the woman doesn't feel safe the guy feels rejected i mean this is actually my dissertation is on
• 1:17:53
  okay part of it is like does taras mishpacha um actually mean marital satisfaction like the
• 1:18:01
  connection and one of the things was one of the questions in the dissertation was um do you feel
• 1:18:08
  like did you take kala classes and do you feel like your college your college teacher prepared
• 1:18:12
  you for the laws of taras mishpacha but also for sex like for intimacy right predominantly the girl
• 1:18:17
  said no the women wow none of them were girls all of them were married for like well no they could
• 1:18:22
  have been girls but married for over two years okay and had at least one child so and they were
• 1:18:28
  like most of them said no like my college teacher did not prepare me for like the actual act of
• 1:18:33
  physical intimacy at all and some of them came from no background of physical and they didn't
• 1:18:38
  know what that meant right meaning they knew what it meant generally but they had no idea
• 1:18:43
  what happens.
• 1:18:45
  Right.
• 1:18:46
  Even the concept of like
• 1:18:48
  the mess.
• 1:18:49
  Oh my God.
• 1:18:50
  The post-sex mess.
• 1:18:51
  Wow.
• 1:18:52
  Like can you imagine
• 1:18:52
  how traumatizing that is?
• 1:18:54
  That is probably very traumatizing.
• 1:18:55
  You do that
• 1:18:55
  and then you stand up
• 1:18:56
  and all of a sudden it's like
• 1:18:57
  and you didn't know?
• 1:18:58
  Wow.
• 1:19:00
  Like honestly,
• 1:19:00
  like I feel bad.
• 1:19:01
  I feel like,
• 1:19:02
  I feel,
• 1:19:02
  I feel really bad for like
• 1:19:04
  these really sheltered
• 1:19:05
  girls and guys
• 1:19:06
  who just like don't.
• 1:19:08
  And like their parents
• 1:19:08
  are obviously not going to say
• 1:19:10
  about it
• 1:19:11
  because it's like not,
• 1:19:12
  they shouldn't know and then it's like it's a really it's a really unhealthy approach to like
• 1:19:21
  you know being raised and then like being thrown into a marriage and then like you're expected to
• 1:19:26
  like just know these things natural what do you mean it's just no it would be natural if you were
• 1:19:30
  a 13 year old girl who was in touch with her hormones started talking to a boy but maybe have
• 1:19:36
  your first kids at 14 years old that in the real world is natural it is unnatural for a girl or a
• 1:19:45
  guy to have no physical anything education not just not just education but like is it i'm and
• 1:19:54
  i've seen your your your ngls where girls are like is it okay for me to do this with myself
• 1:20:00
  and i'm just like clearly you have that's another question by the way that i get i know
• 1:20:06
  14 times a day.
• 1:20:07
  And I'm like, so it happens to be like, I think yesterday, I'm like, this is the last
• 1:20:12
  time I'm going to answer this.
• 1:20:13
  If you don't believe me, please go find somebody else.
• 1:20:16
  Like, and I don't want to be obnoxious or like rude.
• 1:20:18
  Right.
• 1:20:18
  But I think a lot of these people are just like.
• 1:20:21
  I think parents need to start like, if they don't send them to schools where the schools
• 1:20:26
  are teaching them these very basic things, basic biology, then parents need to take initiative
• 1:20:33
  to like start teaching their kids.
• 1:20:34
  But kids have tons of access now.
• 1:20:36
  No matter how much you're going to filter that iPad or that device.
• 1:20:38
  Oh, but they know.
• 1:20:39
  They can get around it.
• 1:20:40
  In a way, it's a blessing, though, because they should know certain things by a certain age.
• 1:20:43
  Yeah.
• 1:20:45
  But I just find it that, like, there needs to be, like, a shift in even in very from school's curriculums.
• 1:20:51
  Like, people should know their bodies.
• 1:20:53
  People should know what's considered normal.
• 1:20:55
  People shouldn't feel ashamed to have raging hormones.
• 1:20:59
  People shouldn't feel.
• 1:21:00
  Right, because then they feel like they're broken.
• 1:21:01
  Something's wrong with them.
• 1:21:01
  Right.
• 1:21:02
  Like, what's wrong with me?
• 1:21:03
  Like, they need to be in touch with who they are.
• 1:21:05
  And in order for you to be a functioning adult who's ready to get married, like you should know a lot of these things before you even start dating.
• 1:21:13
  Right.
• 1:21:14
  I agree with you.
• 1:21:15
  And yeah, your NGLs actually sent you an NGL once and you never answered it.
• 1:21:20
  I'm sorry.
• 1:21:21
  What was it?
• 1:21:22
  And it wasn't even like provocative.
• 1:21:24
  It was just a very like, because I personally have this mental struggle with the way God created us and what rule book we're supposed to follow.
• 1:21:37
  Okay.
• 1:21:37
  They contradict so much of the time.
• 1:21:40
  Okay.
• 1:21:41
  So you're a therapist.
• 1:21:44
  you deal with a lot of from people but do you ever feel like you have to take off
• 1:21:52
  the from cap and answer questions from a therapy level i remember this question i didn't answer it
• 1:21:58
  nope that's so weird i thought i did um yeah i do and it's and and but i but i make it very clear
• 1:22:03
  to the couple that i'm working with especially if they're from if they're not from it doesn't
• 1:22:06
  matter right but um typically initially when i'm working with a couple i'll ask them do we want to
• 1:22:12
  infuse this with Judaism or are we leaving the bag of Judaism outside?
• 1:22:16
  I'm okay either way.
• 1:22:17
  This
• 1:22:17
  is not for me.
• 1:22:18
  It's for them.
• 1:22:18
  I work for them.
• 1:22:20
  Right.
• 1:22:20
  This is not like for my, you know what
• 1:22:21
  I'm saying?
• 1:22:21
  So it really depends on what the couple needs.
• 1:22:24
  There are definitely going to be
• 1:22:25
  times where, um, agreed.
• 1:22:29
  Yes.
• 1:22:29
  I have to take, like, I'll, but I'll say that I'll be like, okay,
• 1:22:32
  I'm just going to take off my Orthodox Jewish hat for a second and put it on the table.
• 1:22:35
  And like,
• 1:22:36
  let's just have like a real conversation about, you know, clinically what's going on here or
• 1:22:41
  etc and a lot of times that ends up being um it's not even so controversial it's more so like
• 1:22:47
  mental health related things and things like that i guess they are considered controversial
• 1:22:50
  within the jewish community they're not and some of them do end up becoming halacha based
• 1:22:55
  just because there's titles that come up and whatever um but yes i definitely have to do that
• 1:22:59
  and it's a very fine balance even the balance of like balancing my um personal life and what i do
• 1:23:05
  here like I am riding that line so tight you should know like I walk a tightrope and there
• 1:23:12
  are definitely some times where like um it actually happened last week I'm not going to say what
• 1:23:16
  happened you might have seen it or whatever someone asked me a question and I posted it
• 1:23:21
  and all I wrote was I did they asked me if I saw something and all I responded I'll tell you I could
• 1:23:25
  tell you off I'm not telling you on the air because I'm gonna get heat for it again I'll tell you off
• 1:23:28
  there um all i posted was i did okay i got email i got 30 dms i think i know what you're talking
• 1:23:36
  about okay so i got emails i got 30 dms saying how why did i have to post the question i'm
• 1:23:41
  reopening old wounds and i was like i know exactly what you're talking about okay i didn't post and
• 1:23:48
  the fact that you know without me having to tell you says something about that situation right i
• 1:23:53
  didn't post anything right i didn't say you didn't post anything it was somebody's question and i
• 1:23:58
  think they just wanted to stir a pock maybe but after that point once i saw that it stirred yeah
• 1:24:05
  i didn't i i don't know that's not true i got on a few hours later after i woke up to like 40
• 1:24:11
  oh my god so i got on later and i'm like listen guys i deleted it at that point i'm like i deleted
• 1:24:17
  it if you know you know if you don't know you don't know i'm not discussing it anymore we're
• 1:24:22
  done yeah i guess still constant flood flood flood flood flood flood and then it stopped right but
• 1:24:28
  you know what like i'm constantly riding this line of like or i always get this question like
• 1:24:34
  your rabbi's okay with what you're doing uh yeah he actually supports me in every shabbos when i
• 1:24:38
  see him and surely he's like you're doing great work i'm so proud to like be her up like you're
• 1:24:42
  the woman that people go to with the questions that they don't they don't have answers to and
• 1:24:47
  a lot of people don't want to even answer them like they're too embarrassed and i think it's so
• 1:24:51
  great that there's somebody like you in the from world we need more people it's rough people can
• 1:24:57
  like literally like be super vulnerable and say you know i have this problem like what do i do
• 1:25:03
  yeah right and i think that that is something that like you should have been around a long time ago
• 1:25:08
  i know well i was young too then you're like the pioneer of like this you know this openness yeah
• 1:25:14
  i'm trying and it's and it's and it's funny because there are a few other people that are
• 1:25:18
  trying to do what I'm doing, but they're still too closed.
• 1:25:21
  And they're like, well, I'm going to
• 1:25:22
  open up.
• 1:25:23
  We love the openness.
• 1:25:24
  We love that sometimes some of these questions that you get
• 1:25:27
  in your NGLs are out of whack, but I think that it's what makes you so different and it makes you
• 1:25:35
  more approachable.
• 1:25:36
  Because honestly, I was a little nervous to meet you.
• 1:25:39
  I'm like, oh my God,
• 1:25:39
  like, is she going to judge me if I ask a stupid question?
• 1:25:42
  I don't care.
• 1:25:43
  Oh my gosh.
• 1:25:43
  See, you know
• 1:25:45
  what's funny in these type of dynamics?
• 1:25:46
  I'm always nervous when I go and I've done this a bunch of
• 1:25:48
  time it's not like it's my first podcast but I'm always like oh my gosh am I gonna how far is my
• 1:25:52
  fuck gonna go in my mouth like what am I gonna say here like I feel the same way when I do these
• 1:25:56
  things and I'm always nervous and it's funny in in some of the podcasts I record you you can see
• 1:26:01
  like oh she's holding back oh my god like my staff will tell me like I noticed I'm like okay shut up
• 1:26:07
  like you notice no one else noticed you know yeah I mean listen at the end of the day like this is
• 1:26:11
  gonna be on Spotify YouTube Apple podcast so like I do like to have some sort of filter only because
• 1:26:18
  A, I don't want to get banned and I don't want like certain things, you know, it's come
• 1:26:22
  up.
• 1:26:23
  And I do know that, you know, I do like to keep certain things classy to an extent.
• 1:26:29
  For sure.
• 1:26:29
  I mean, this is not call your daddy.
• 1:26:31
  Yeah, this is not.
• 1:26:32
  That's why it's call your tati.
• 1:26:33
  Right.
• 1:26:35
  So, you know, I think it's.
• 1:26:37
  Not that she's bad.
• 1:26:37
  I happen to think she's great.
• 1:26:38
  I think she's great.
• 1:26:39
  In her own way.
• 1:26:40
  In her own way, she's awesome.
• 1:26:43
  But I'm so happy that you came today.
• 1:26:45
  Thank you for having me.
• 1:26:46
  It was really great.
• 1:26:46
  I love this conversation.
• 1:26:47
  I feel like we can like continue it for the next like five hours.
• 1:26:50
  We definitely could.
• 1:26:52
  But, you know, I think you guys really should reach out to Lauren.
• 1:26:55
  And even though you're located in Boca, do you have like, do you only do it in person?
• 1:27:00
  No, no, no.
• 1:27:00
  I work all over the world via Zoom.
• 1:27:02
  Okay.
• 1:27:04
  I have had clients fly in from out of the country to come see me in person when they need to.
• 1:27:07
  Yeah.
• 1:27:07
  Like it's, it's, it's, there's definitely, do I think Zoom can really work for anyone?
• 1:27:12
  Yeah.
• 1:27:13
  If you're, if you're into it, if you're in it, you know what I'm saying?
• 1:27:15
  But yeah, I see people virtually.
• 1:27:19
  I see people in my office in person.
• 1:27:22
  And yeah, they both can work potentially, you know?
• 1:27:24
  Okay.
• 1:27:25
  Awesome.
• 1:27:26
  Well, thank you so much for coming on Call Her Tati.
• 1:27:28
  Thank you for having me.
• 1:27:29
  This is great.
• 1:27:30
  And maybe we'll do this again because I feel like we can kind of maybe bring in some NGLs.
• 1:27:37
  Maybe we can get both our husbands in here.
• 1:27:38
  That would be funny.
• 1:27:39
  That would be interesting.
• 1:27:40
  I would love that.
• 1:27:40
  My husband's going to be like blushing the whole time.
• 1:27:42
  Maybe.
• 1:27:42
  Mine is the same.
• 1:27:44
  Mine is the same.
• 1:27:44
  And you know what's funny?
• 1:27:45
  like he's for sure gonna every time he watches a podcast he's like this was great i feel like
• 1:27:49
  you should just record yourself and send it to me and then i'll listen to you more i'm like
• 1:27:52
  thanks thank you so much like that's great um but yeah but that that would be cute if we can
• 1:27:58
  have like a conversation i think we should do i think we should do a episode two a continuation
• 1:28:03
  i'm down because there's so much material we can cover and i think what would be great is if we had
• 1:28:09
  people actually send us like real legit questions yeah i've done that before i did that but so i
• 1:28:13
  And we didn't do it.
• 1:28:14
  Yeah.
• 1:28:14
  We didn't do it live.
• 1:28:15
  We didn't do it recorded.
• 1:28:16
  But when I did the pool events in my house,
• 1:28:19
  um,
• 1:28:19
  that's what people did.
• 1:28:20
  We made like a Google doc and people could send them in and they were
• 1:28:21
  anonymous.
• 1:28:22
  Okay.
• 1:28:22
  And then,
• 1:28:23
  um,
• 1:28:24
  we gave them over like,
• 1:28:25
  at least we're able to review them,
• 1:28:27
  but also like screen the ones that are like,
• 1:28:29
  come on,
• 1:28:29
  you're a troll.
• 1:28:30
  Like,
• 1:28:31
  let's be real here guys.
• 1:28:32
  Like we're really,
• 1:28:32
  stop acting like you're a horny 15 year old.
• 1:28:35
  Exactly.
• 1:28:35
  Right.
• 1:28:36
  Exactly.
• 1:28:36
  So we have to like screen them and watch them,
• 1:28:38
  but yeah,
• 1:28:38
  I'd be so down.
• 1:28:39
  Yeah.
• 1:28:39
  Okay.
• 1:28:40
  Well,
• 1:28:40
  thank you so much,
• 1:28:43
  we'll see you next time.
• 1:28:43
  Yep.
• 1:28:44
  Bye.