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Meet a Bone Cleaner · Workplace Confessions: Behind Closed Doors

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Workplace Confessions Behind Closed Doors.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Elsa Barby.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Don Andrews.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: We have been friends since sixth grade.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Somewhere between a car wash job, a few questionable boy choices, and 40 years of friendship, we became the kind of people who always want to know what was really going on, including at work.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: Don spent 25 years as an employment lawyer digging into workplace drama from the inside out.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: I built a long career in the beauty industry as a brand educator with a few TV cameos sprinkled in for fun.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: We came up in very different industries, but we have the same passion.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Meeting new people and asking how they got their jobs, what they love, what they can't stand, and what happens behind closed doors.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Every episode we talk to a new guest about their lived experience in the world of work.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: And because our guests stay anonymous, they can spill the truth without the fallout.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: We get into the choices they made, the tiny cruelties, the surprise kindnesses, and some of the moments that never make it into human resources reports.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: Equal Parts informative and titillating.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: This show serves up all the tea while honoring the incredible, complicated, often messy work people are doing across the industries and across the map.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Workplace Confessions Behind Closed Doors.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: Let's get into it.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe start by telling us what your very first job was and then bring us up to what you do now and all the in-between.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow, my very first job that you know I was paid by a place not babysitting or something.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: I worked at a pizza restaurant.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that was in high school.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was like 16.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so probably since then I've always done jobs that are very service-related, helping people, feeding people, taking care of people.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: I have this independence from my parents.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then if I worked late, my parents would be like, oh, well, you're working, you could stay out late.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I quickly got a second job.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: So that started my my work ethic of I can do two jobs and go to school and do this.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that probably stems like that continued on to current state.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I was a waitress and I so I worked at the pizza place and a waitress and then an another waitress job.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: So on the same street in our little town, I had uh three jobs and kind of intertwining it just so I can get as much money as I could to get out of that town as soon as I could.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: So that was in Clovis, New Mexico, just way out in the middle of nowhere, except for it, there's nothing there except for like agriculture or an Air Force base.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: So a very interesting mix of people, and it was nice to like go to school there, like grow up, but you need to get out because otherwise if there's nothing available for you.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I luckily got a chance to well, I followed my high school sweetheart out to San Diego, and we didn't work out, but I was like, I'm not leaving, I'm gonna stay.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, I'm gonna stay here.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then since then, I mean, I worked so many jobs.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: I it's the list can go on and on.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think I I just got really lucky with meeting a lot of people, and I just naively would listen to them.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I maybe hopefully they were like I I think now they were spirit guides helping me to find the right direction.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: But it was a very zigzag way to get to here because we didn't have a, you know, Target was like a big deal in my town because you had to drive, like it was Roswell, New Mexico, the alien town in New Mexico that had a Target that was the closest one.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like going to like the mall for us.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was so exciting.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: So when I said I'm gonna move out to California, I'm gonna get a job at Target.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, right away I was a cashier and I had a regular lady who we chatted every time she came in.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, you know what?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you working here?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: You you would do so well at the casino.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to come work at the casino at Verona with me?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the laws were different.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I could work my day shift, and then I could work these night things and just make tons of tips and money serving alcohol.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even know how to make a drink.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: I would just be put in there and get tips and bank with.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you could make a lot of money, but it's just not sustainable because you're just you're in a basically at a casino all the time, you know.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was very, very strange.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe two years of my life doing that.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: And because a lot of people didn't, I mean, I had cashier training from the pizza place in the restaurant, and I guess that was on my resume.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, oh, you can close banks, like, you know, close the bank at the end of the night.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: We need someone in the vault.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: So they just promoted me from like a cashier upstairs to I would dish out the money in the vaults downstairs in the casino.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that was very strange because, you know, I that like just to lead into it, like I I'm not really that good at math or money.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: So to be in charge of that is wild to think back that I was just handling this much money all the time, giving it to all the banks to go up all the like little restaurants, cafes, stores.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: That was what we did.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we would just go down and do that.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a very interesting time, but I think I was moving and it would be too far a drive.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I did a few other just random, strange jobs, all while trying to go to school.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: So this was like a lot of like I went to Grossmont College, Queenamaca College, like just here and there trying to do this.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then eventually, you know, I got like a receptionist job and it was in construction that led to office manager.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then from then on, it was just a lot of business support roles.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: So business operations, business support, and and then just ironically, the last two corporate jobs of mine for a long time.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: It was like six years and 12 years, were in research and development.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so I came savvy with that, even though that wasn't my training at all.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, it was just became more experienced with um understanding like the specs, the contracts, the things that they needed, the support that they needed for that.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's how I was working at Jack in the Box Corporate for RD, like food science.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then I got hired at Pfizer RD for medicine RD.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it was just very different industries, but similar operational needs that, you know, I guess they saw that connection and gave me a chance.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was at Jack in the Box that was in Carni Mesa, and across the street was a massage school.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I just saw some information about a beginner class called it Essentials, and I thought, oh, it's it's just right there, you know, I'll just try it.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved it, and I've just always I've always been a very physical touch person, you know, and this gives you that like permission to just, I don't know, love people and I love massage.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: And once you start going to massage school and you you just get massage, it's you're just like, hey, this is I just get massage all the time.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's great.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I did a few classes and I didn't think that it was gonna be feasible to become a massage therapist because I was already used to my you know pay at my day job, and everyone seemed like it, like it wasn't it wasn't something that you could do full time or I didn't see the vision yet.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was just like, I like to get massage and it's just convenient to my to my work.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: But after a few classes, they're like, you know, you're you're kind of doing it like backwards and expensive way taking classes a la carte.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: You should just do the program because if you just have the program, you know, they're trying to recruit for people for programs anyway.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: So they're like, you're paying a lot for taking one class at a time, just bundle it.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: And for massage, I think at that time it was only 500 hours.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I did that, and then I just kept kept going beyond the massage therapy thing to the holistic health practitioner.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I just it was like massage school was like my my thing after work.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: I just went.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I just and I just I didn't know when I would make that shift.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: I just went until I ran out of classes that they offer.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then yeah, I got the opportunity to meet a lot of great clients that gave me this confidence that I could just get do this more.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then the opportunity arose to leave a very toxic corporate workplace.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, it's still, it's almost gonna be a year, and it's I'm still in shock every day that I'm here.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: The circumstances kind of pushed pushed me that way, but everything unfolded probably faster than it's really set in for me.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: So even today, I'm still like, I can I do this?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing it, but I'm it's still like, yeah, I'm still finding that hard to believe.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: What's the best part about being a massage therapist?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, definitely the clients, getting to spend time with them, get to know them.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: It just feels very fulfilling that way to be able to to help them, especially at a time right now where I think we're all our nervous systems are really taking a toll.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it just it feels like it's a gift to to both of us, to the client, to to myself.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: It just it's a it's yeah, it's just very fulfilling that I can work with great great people and help them and help support them.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: What surprised you most about the work that you do?
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: In contrast with, you know, a nine to five.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: What surprises me is just when you're in flow, how time can go like that.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like time doesn't, it's almost like a strange portal here.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like time doesn't exist the same way that it does out there.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: I remember counting the minutes.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: I remember like thinking, oh my gosh, can't wait until lunch, can't wait till to get off.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm surprised at how the flow and pace of work can be so different if you if you let it that I've been able to like it's a physical job.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was I was worried about that.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how am I going to have the stamina for?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Am I going to, but when you're doing something that you're in such a flow state, it's that was very surprising.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: How many years did you have your massage therapy business on the side while you worked your full-time corporate job?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: 16 years.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was, and but you have to understand what I got my massage therapy license.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was still going to school because I did I did you get your license at 500 hours and then and then I just kept going to school.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: But but I got clientele right when I got the 500 hours because we did you have to like work in a clinic.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was in Pacific Beach.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: You had to do free massage for random people.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I was very lucky.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't like I didn't even try to.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: I was kind of recruited by a lady saying, Hey, could you come to my house and do massage for my friends?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, this and that.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: So before I was even done with school, I got clients.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then that was, yeah, 16 years ago.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: What's a skill that you use now that no one warns you about?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, probably there's a lot of energetics when you're dealing with people in an intimate setting.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, yeah, using your intuition more and feeling things out and there, there is people don't realize that massage therapists and other similar modalities to massage, we do have a lot of there's an emotional intimate labor with that.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if we learned too much about that.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like here and there from teachers, they might have, you know, told you, but I didn't understand how important that would be.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like that should be its own course, but to me, its own separate thing.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, I love that part, and I think like I'm lucky that that is something I naturally love to do, but is it is quite necessary because it is it is a vulnerable setting, and people are sharing things with you, and you have to hold a lot of space for that, and that it it's it's more than I thought it would be, but I enjoy it.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I just I wish I was more prepared because no one warned me that that would be that happy.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: What are some misconceptions that people have about massage therapists that make you crazy that you wish you could create?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, I think we all know there's just that like weird, you know, cultural taboo that it's a sexualized thing.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: It they make it very comedic and oh happy endings and something like that.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's just I don't know if that's just again our you know, culture and society that shapes it from either not educating people and them not having touch that's nurturing and therapeutic in a platonic way.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so to them it's it's either either or, you know, but that I think, yeah.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've been very lucky.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: I I know that there are other stories, like horror stories out there, but um, I think when I was brand new, my very first office, I worked with an acupuncturist, my field is more open.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I was proposed a few times there, um, which was horrible.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: And now I I think I have built that up on my boundary and my role in what I offer because I I don't know what I I think I sadly I even blamed myself.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: I asked him, what about me made you think that was that I do this?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because immediately I thought I did something.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's really just he was completely inappropriate based on it, it was his own choice, his own decision to just decide to ask one guy.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: So one guy, I think he it just kind of was like a thought, like, oh, do you do happy endings?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, that's definitely not what we do here.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's an acupuncture clinic, like it's not I don't know what gives you this vibe.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: And he had to walk out, you know, past the front desk to see, to check out, and he he really felt awful.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I I that's what I was asking him, like, what would make you think that I would do this?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I need to like I needed to know for future reference so I don't do this again.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: And he was just like, I'm sorry, sorry, I'm sorry, sorry.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: And he, you know, pain and left.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: And he called me the next day, and I was just like, hi, and then he said who he was.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was like shaking all over again, and he's like, I just feel really, really bad.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think he was maybe wondering if I was going to say, I reported you to the police, you know, like he wanted to know.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: I like for it wasn't because he was really sorry, I think he was nervous, paranoid for himself, you know.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: So that was horrible.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then the next guy, same office, he brought a medical file, and he said that he had a medical need for a perineum massage.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, what is that?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: What is that?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Perineum is the area of skin like underneath, like between your legs.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's a patch of skin.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: And he was trying to convince me that this area, there was a therapeutic benefit for him.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: If I worked this area, the way he tried to gaslight me with it too was like, look, here it is.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because I was like, no, I was like, I I'm not trained in this.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I have a license to go to a date.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't go beyond a date.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't go in under your legs.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Oh, I'll teach you.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay, I'll teach you.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I got such an ick.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: I like it felt, I felt like, I felt like he shopped me out, like he looked for me, like looked for someone solo, looked for someone who might be naive enough to buy that, you know.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, you need to go.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is it's like so that guy, I really like I really was down to myself, like, is there like an eat for this?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, and it's not from massage therapists that even like if you really need to like go to a doctor, go to like someone else.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like I think he it was for him, he it was more layered with he enjoyed almost tricking me into it or something.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think at that point, that's when I took my my info off my website.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: I just wanted kind of like, which is sad because then I I think even now I have a like a block with being seen.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: I it it made me want to not be seen.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, there's it's it's not, I don't know if it's because I look kind of Asian.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's an oriental massage correlation that I was just like, you know, I don't want any speculation or anyone to misunderstand who I might be.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing is, which they're not wrong, but because some people see massage as a luxury, and I don't see it that way at all.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: I see it as something that it's, you know, this isn't like salesy to say, like this is an investment in you, but but it is because taking care of ourself, having that time in with ourselves, getting to know how we are.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm a facilitator, but you're having this experience getting the massage, and then you find things out about yourself because the you know, the fascia and muscles, like they we do amazing things just to get through the day.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you can just let someone find some areas, then you're just like, oh, it's like information about yourself.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're getting older, or the the population's getting older.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: So we have a health care provider shortage, but we are also needing this is like the most high need time for doctors and nurses, and I think anything that you can do that's preventative care to be your own healer, to be, you know, your own advocate so that you're not it's not waiting and then you know it's it's gonna be harder too late.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's just like why I'm very passionate about it.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: What kinds of massage do you offer?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: My specialization is deep tissue sculpting with I like to incorporate heat with hot stones, and and then I do restorative circulatory.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, I blend a lot of that in because I think too much deep tissue in one session can be overwhelming.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a balance of like make better, make nice to kind of balance out like we're doing a lot, then I try to like make nice, so it's a good balanced session.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I also offer cupping and prenatal.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: I blend in some Thai.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: I blend in a lot of things, but probably the core of what I do is that deep tissue sculpting.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Deep tissue sculpting is a modality that I think it was the founder of our school.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: She coined that and she wrote a book about it.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's important to say the deep tissue sculpting because when you think deep tissue, people think it's deep, Swedish, like just push, push deep.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, you can do that, but that's not what I do.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it would be, it's hard for the tissue to receive it that way.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, what I like about the deep tissue is it is sculpting with the fibers.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: I I like to, it's almost like like bone cleaning, I like to clean the edges where adhesions lock up.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, 90 minutes seems like a long time.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's really not, like, especially if we're trying to fix some chronic areas.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: So the way it might feel is even if we can't break up adhesions and knots, we're trying to get some fresh blood flow in and open and release that.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it's almost like I think of it as a little bit of like flossing and bone cleaning.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Those don't sound so great, so that's why I like how DT's whole thing, but that's the intention I have when I'm touching the areas that are very locked up.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then the heat just helps warm it up and open.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: We can just get in there a little quicker because you know, we get really locked up, and if your tissues are very dense, the heat will help allow me to push through because I never want to push through it like forcefully.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: You want to invite it.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's so it's such a feeling to me.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard to put into words, but it's very intentional with it's you can go the direction of the muscle fiber, but also some cross fiber where it might get stuck with.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: And hopefully later, when you leave, my goal is that you feel some space and release and all that fascia.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because we got we tend to think that it's a lot of muscle, but it's actually hugely fascia.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, Doug understands this with yoga.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: We can't get into the muscle if the fascia, if the wedding is not letting you in.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: So the stones is my shortcut to get that fascia to warm up.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I can get in, but also it's just to kind of let that fascia to release so that your muscles do have that space.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Muscles have the blood flow to you know to bring in new oxygen, take out the old.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: But if the fascia's making it dense, you it can't.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: So even though people are like, oh, fix this muscle, fix that muscle.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it feels good on your muscle, but really I'm I'm trying to get the fascia to like give you slack and space.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what feels so good.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope that helps.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: You I also I forgot I had the vibroacoustic table.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: I forget that I had that too.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: You can't just, you know, zone out and rest.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I do have some clients that there might be like really wound up that it's hard for whatever reason that they're holding or guarding.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's nice that the vibroacoustic helps like loosen them up.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes you can start with that and just lay there with yourself through a vibroacoustic session.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: You're receiving some frequencies that are just restoring your nervous system in a way where it's like we just have all this distortion throughout the week, and then you come in for your massage, it just reorganizes it.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so I definitely have seen that if I let like you know, one design example I'm trying out is they lay on the table for 15 minutes alone.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Just, you know, I just tuck them in, I put a weighted blanket, it just feels really good.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then we start the work.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Their body is like out of fight or flight, totally into rest and digest, like we can get through it.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that is that 75 minutes of body work is so much more productive than me forcing for 90 minutes.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, so there's you know, the it doesn't have to be like from start to end of the deep tissue, like this.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's nice to listen and just know where what would be good for you if that day you're just like, I'm actually, you know, just needing more restorative.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's a good thing to do too.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: What are what are some of the challenging things about the job?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say is the worst part about being a massage therapist?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think it would be if you know, there's a little, there's some uncertainty if I'll fill the calendar, you know, is the business part.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because I love the massage and the business part is that is is the worst part for me, but I'm getting better at it.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I did business operations for corporate for like 21 years, but I'm doing it for myself is different.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Doing it with my my clients is yeah, it's different.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's yeah, the hardest is yeah, I guess the the boundaries with clients with making sure that you like, you know, don't flick on their sessions and appointments and be considerate of of you know my my time and the next client person coming in time.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's but it's not that bad, but I would say I it's not my favorite, you know, like laundry isn't great either, but I still don't mind that as much as the the logistics of trying to like tell people that things that they should know, that they know if you miss appointments with other practitioners, it's you know, if you miss a medical appointment, if you miss it, but there's gonna be a cancellation window, a cancellation fee.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like that that's been challenging for me to communicate and hold a boundary on.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the least favorite part in the laundry.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us what kinds of things you're seeing in the body that you think are signs of nervous system dysregulation or or disruption.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I that's it's a huge part of what I've been learning and doing, and and especially with my regular clients, it's amazing what we both can see with patterns if you come often enough.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: But also if you don't come that often, but I see patterns of clients that are similar to you.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: You can there's a guarding, there's you know the fascia will guard in certain ways.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I I definitely utilize the chakra systems.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like right now, I think collectively we're bracing a lot.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I literally see patterns with how people are holding their bodies.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: There's like like sorry, you can't see me with it, but like the root chakra area, the muscles that are linked up to that, people will come in, they'll be like, Well, I don't know why I have this, this, and this.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: And you can push and massage and do all the things you can, but if you aren't even considering the fact you might just be internally bracing that for an emotional reason, some subconscious reason.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: You you're just gonna end up relying on an external person like me to like do it and it's better for a few days and it comes back.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's definitely a collaborative healing.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm just facilitating the information to your body, and you are picking up like, oh wow, I'm bracing here, I'm doing this, and you know, and I I can share what I see, you know.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Probably the two typical things I've seen lately is the root chakra, bracing and inner thigh, low back, the glutes, you know, you're just bracing your root and heart guarding, just that guarding over the sternum, that tension, you know, so just like opening it up and being like available.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: So those two.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: So share with us, if you would, what is the weirdest, wackiest thing that you've seen anywhere you've worked in your whole career?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't have to say where you worked.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: The most impactful wackiest things was yeah, a toxic boss that can just really get into your head and self-worth.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I don't know if there's any like there's definitely a lot of key moments that it I can think of contribute to it, but you know, it's just that impact that it did.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: It that's I still think about it that like I can't believe I let myself be treated that bad.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: But probably the most unhinged thing she ever said to me was she didn't want me to laugh because it reminded her of a concubine.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, did I tell you that, Don?
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: No, yeah, she told me that.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: She I think she I don't know what her she definitely just she would say crazy things to you, you know, like but that was one thing that I still look back, but like I can't believe I let her get away with calling me that.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: But she said it makes me look not confident, like I like I'm laughing to distract from the fact that I don't have and the and the the fact that it reminds her of uh it's like you're a concubine, like I'm there for entertainment.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, probably the craziest things I ever saw was at the casino.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I wasn't so invested in it, so it just like you know, let the let things out just so just to to know that there's like a whole world and culture like that just happening, like while we're at work, addiction, the the things like it would that part was was wild to to see that and to see them like you know not know what day it was or what you know that kind of thing, I think.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: But like they didn't seem like they were big high rollers, they kind of seemed a little bit homeless, like they literally like they wouldn't drive down the hill, they would be so tired that she's like, Oh, I just they caught me a hotel room or I sleep in my car, and then I keep going.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was that that's how many hours they put in gambling.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Wow and and we were their like neighbors or people, their their friends, like they were just like, Oh, hey, you know what's up, and they'd be like, they just wear the same outfits, but they just they seemed like just they left society and just stayed at a casino.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: And just yeah, the culture of that place was was unique.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: There was a lot of mean girls there too.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like when I came in, just wanted to get hired as a cashier, but they needed someone to count bank money.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: I guess there were some girls that were there longer than me, but they didn't have as much experience or speak English very well, and so I didn't know that I didn't even try to apply for it.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: They they were like, we need someone with more experience, with more of this, and then they went in the gaming shop, but then I like lost friends, like I only had a few friends, and they all like game away from me, and then that was very lonely.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think, yeah, they I guess basically treat the audacity of the treatment that people have to to you is is wild.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, I spent a career of working with people who many of whom thought that their bosses were toxic and they were being retaliated against or harassed.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm curious now if the pain of being mistreated was worse than the pain of seeing the company not take appropriate corrective action, or whether the failure to take action was worse.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely the failure, the the lack of justice, the like, because almost that that I mean, for my situation, that's kind of what kind of kept me there was I was wanting to see justice come about.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted someone to be held accountable for it.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then finally I just had to be like, it's it's not good for my own peace.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: This is this isn't good, and that it might not ever happen while I'm here.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe I need to, yeah, let go.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I think definitely there was, you know, you can there's a lot you you can take.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: And almost, I mean, I I really tried to convince myself, like I would, it got so bad where I would be relieved when she would show that, when she would unmask and lash out, because I would be like, oh, there it is, see everyone's seat.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because when it's so insidious, people think you're crazy.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: They think like, oh, you took it the wrong way, or but when they just come out and like, you know, snap at you, yell at you, call you a concubine, say it was so so inappropriate.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: You feel like, well, now they'll have no choice but to take action.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: They'll have no choice but to do something.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: And you feel almost like this relief of like, I knew that person felt that way anyway.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, it's if they act out in public or you know, whatever they embarrass you in front of the people, you've already, you know, d dealt with that.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: But you're just wanting it to be validated so bad, and you're just like, see, see, see, and then if they don't, you're just like, okay, well, I guess I'll wait for some some other bigger thing that you really think matters, and and that's you know, that was not a fruitful plan.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, and see, I'm even laughing to try to soothe myself through it still, like it that's it's still raw from that time.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: I I yeah, I don't know.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's like and being in an opposite space now that's is such a safe space, it it's a little emotional.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I am I keep like waiting for like my nervous system is still thinking like something's gonna come.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: You need to be on you, and and there's not that thing to be vigilant against that it's it you you just you have to reorganize your own flow because they spend so much energy doing that, and then now well now I get to spend energy doing what I you know love and pouring into my clients.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: But it was so consuming and so much of an energy leak to to be with that and to be watching that and be in a place that you clearly don't belong, but you're or maybe you belonged at one point, but it's past that expiration, and you just need to let go, and it just gets really dark until that point.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then afterwards, you don't really feel the impact until you get to a safe space, and then you're like, oh my god, that's kids come, it's like coming back, you know.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not like you can't only handle so much information at one time.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: So you're dealing with the the news, the the shift and everything, and then the emotional nervous system part, it comes like later.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: And to reflect back on that, yeah, like I I want to like hug younger me.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: I want to like, you know, you just can go back and wish you could do something like different.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess, you know, now I I I guess I can just be grateful I don't have to deal with that, but it feels like a whole combination of like, why didn't I do it sooner?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Why did I, you know, just the oh Don told me this actually.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: I I've told this to probably at least 10 people since you told me this.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's not it's not that like you're not doing okay, and that you might not, it's not that you might not even be thriving sometimes.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, obviously you you're still human, you have your your winds during it during this time in like a bad workspace.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: And this was 12 years, and so it was a very slow, long boiling frog that it's not like I didn't thrive somewhat, and I was okay, I was coping sometimes with a lot of like ups and downs, a lot of downs.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's the lost potential, and that breaks my heart because you just think of all that time that you're pouring into a place that didn't believe in you, that what if she did?
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: What if they did believe in you?
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like where would you be now?
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: What if what if you didn't spend all that time trying to convince them to believe in you and and just believed in yourself?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and and so I think that was the thing that now when you are in such fight or fight and flight mode, you're you're you're so bracing for what's coming that you're you're you automatically conserve energy because you just know something's gonna come up that you weren't expecting, that you don't, you literally stop learning, you stop trying to gather more information because you don't have the capacity for it, because you're like, I don't have the energy to sign up for that class because I've noticed a pattern of every one or two weeks, some shit hits the fan, and I have to deal with that.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I had signed up realized, oh, by the way, I've been taking these business classes for years.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like that, the whole where I started school in Gross Mount and Krimaca, you know, 20 years ago.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: My transcripts are crazy long of just taking classes here and there for whatever work purpose, but never finishing for myself, never finishing, just doing what I need to do.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I I have had to drop out of classes I had paid for, or classes that, you know, whatever, because I just things would happen at work that just that became more important.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I had to, I couldn't lose, you know, my bread, I had to prioritize them and put me on the back burner.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: When really there should have always been time for all of that.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: But I I couldn't, I couldn't do it.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: So so anyway, so now knowing that I have more of the opening, I it's almost like I'm I can't stop learning.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like I can't stop, like, look, like it's it's almost like I'm wanting to catch up on what I didn't get to learn for years of being on hold.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: If somebody was contemplating leaving a toxic environment, what would you tell them?
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would I would say you probably are underestimating the impact that it has on you and the impact making the decision will have in in a positive way.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have goosebumps saying that.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I really hope you make that choice for yourself, for everyone in your family that that deals you know with all the consequences of a toxic workplace, too.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's better for everyone in your life, most importantly, you.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: So definitely it'd be worth it.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: On that note, I'm going to end our great interview with you.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for being such an open and vulnerable guest for us and learning so much about you.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: You've officially joined the ranks of the brave and of the bold.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, folks.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's it for this week's confession.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: We've laughed, cringed, and maybe questioned our own career choices.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: Big thanks to our anonymous guests for keeping it real and reminding us that behind every job title is a story worth telling.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you've got a workplace confession of your own, we're all ears.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: Hit us up at our email address.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: And don't forget to subscribe, rate, and share.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Your support helps us keep the secrets flowing.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, keep your badge clipped, your coffee strong, and your stories wild.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: This is Workplace Confessions Behind Closed Doors.