Latest / The Illinois Nutrient Loss Reduction Podcast / Episode 18 | New Depths of Water Quality: Managing Cover Crops and Livestock
Transcript
- Episode 18 | New Depths of Water Quality: Managing Cover Crops and Livestock 00:00:06:19 - 00:00:25:19 Todd Gleason This is the Illinois Nutrient Loss Reduction podcast. Episode 18 Feeding forages. I'm U of I extension’s Todd Gleason, Travis Meteer, Illinois Extension beef educator, now joins us to talk a bit about forages and cover crops. I'm wondering if you could tell us what resources U of I extension has in this area. 00:00:25:26 - 00:00:34:27 Travis Meteer I think the biggest one, Todd, is people. So we've got commercial ag educators, stationed around the state that answer their phone and email. 00:00:34:27 - 00:01:03:07 Travis Meteer And we know these cover crops are probably a farm by farm, prescription. There's there's not one that fits everybody. And so having a conversation with us first and foremost is probably best. One of the most popular resources we do have, that's available that producers or farmers or growers could check out the Quick Guide. It's just, kind of a front and back sheet with cover crop options that list the species. 00:01:03:13 - 00:01:36:10 Travis Meteer And then a lot of the information that we get questions on as far as planning information for seeding rates, planting depth, expected tonnage, and then maybe some pros and cons of those different species. And so hopefully that Quick Guide which is available online is something that a producer could look at real, real fast and just kind of get themselves versed with the cover crop options and then build a foundation for a conversation with their seed dealer or the consultant as far as what they need to plant. 00:01:36:12 - 00:01:58:25 Travis Meteer And then the other thing that I want to mention real quick is the Midwest Cover Crop tool. It's something that University of Illinois and other land grant institutions have put a lot of time and effort into. You can simply just Google Midwest cover crop tool, and that thing is very user friendly. And it gives, gives you an opportunity to prioritize three goals for your cover crop. 00:01:58:27 - 00:02:22:18 Travis Meteer I think that's something that producers, and the conversations that I've had, I generally in talking to livestock producers and they want to produce, feed. But for a row crop farmer they may just be looking for simply, reducing soil erosion and reducing maybe impacts from, weeds or wheat control. And so knowing your goals is really important when you're selecting a cover crop mix. 00:02:22:21 - 00:02:26:20 Travis Meteer And that that tool is really good at helping you decide what what's best. 00:02:26:25 - 00:02:42:21 Todd Gleason You know, I learned over the years just by listening to you folks that, for those who do haying, they kind of understand the nutritional value. And, when they need to harvest and some of the things that have to happen, they need to do some measurements in that process. 00:02:42:24 - 00:02:48:17 Todd Gleason How much different is it for cover crops? And are there things that growers should be utilizing? 00:02:48:19 - 00:03:11:10 Travis Meteer Well, I agree with your comment totally. Most farmers know what you can expect on grass, hay or alfalfa hay or they've probably been making hay off the same, same or similar acreage for their farming career. But now, on the cover crop side of things, when especially if when we talk about maybe some of these blends and mixes, it is going to be extremely variable. 00:03:11:10 - 00:03:33:05 Travis Meteer And so not as consistent as maybe what, farmers are used to putting up in terms of forage. So with that variability, it's really important that we get a nutrient analysis done. So just take a simple forage sample. Either core of a few bales or just grab a grab sample out of the wind row and get a nutrient analysis set off on it. 00:03:33:07 - 00:03:52:23 Travis Meteer Because some of these crops, the grasses are probably fairly similar. But when we start to put like brassicas and legumes and different things into some of these cover crop mixes, we can have a lot of difference in what that nutritional value may be. So the first and foremost, the easiest thing to do is just take a sample, send it off. 00:03:52:25 - 00:04:24:21 Travis Meteer And NIR forage analysis is roughly 20 to $30. Great return on investment to know what's there. Common sense stuff. Those forage maturity is going to lend to the quality and nutritional value of any forage. Right. So when it's really vegetative, it's going to be pretty high in protein and energy. And as it matures and gets older the plant is going to reduce the amount of protein and energy that's available in it as it as it lignifies and goes reproductive. 00:04:24:24 - 00:04:45:16 Travis Meteer So if we're trying to maximize yield and quality, just like producing grass hay, we want to target that root stage of the plant. And some of these small grains, many of referred to that as the early doe stage or even even as far up as the flag leaf stage. That would be kind of a prime window to cut and harvest most of these. 00:04:45:19 - 00:05:13:16 Travis Meteer And then if we're grazing, we're made may need to look at what kind of, stage of production our animals are in. If we're trying to get really good gains or max gains, we may not may want to harvest that cover crop in a more vegetative state and supplement it with some dry matter and energy. If we're just trying to keep a dry beef cow, we can let it get a little, more mature knowing that we don't need quite the forage quality to maintain a dry beef cow. 00:05:13:18 - 00:05:20:17 Travis Meteer And we can maximize tonnage that way. So there's some considerations there. The biggest thing is test so you know what you have. 00:05:20:24 - 00:05:29:02 Todd Gleason What management recommendations would you, Travis, give to a row crop farmer with livestock who is looking to diversify their feeding option with cover crops? 00:05:29:02 - 00:05:41:13 Travis Meteer Yeah, I think so, cover crops give a great opportunity if we're growing forage on our farm, it's, adding livestock or bringing livestock back to the farm to harvest that forage. 00:05:41:16 - 00:06:05:20 Travis Meteer It makes sense. And I think if producers put their nose in the literature, any they'll see the animal interaction with these cover crops is part of the secret to the soil health benefits. And so getting animals back out on the on maybe some of that row crop acreage or at least running it through a livestock and then applying the manure back to that land. 00:06:05:22 - 00:06:30:16 Travis Meteer That's part of the secret too. But, grazing and extending the grazing season, especially extending the grazing season, has always been one of the secrets to being profitable in the in a cow calf enterprise. And so if there's row crop farmers that already have a small cow calf herd, the less they can both days they have to start a tractor and feed hay or buy supplemental feed to feed those cows. 00:06:30:23 - 00:06:54:06 Travis Meteer The more those cows can be out grazing and harvesting their own feed and and utilizing those farm grown feeds and more profitable in general, those operations are. For those are going to make dry hay out of some of this cover crop, obviously, there's opportunity, in the dry hay market to utilize that that product for, you know, some revenue for the farm. 00:06:54:08 - 00:07:17:07 Travis Meteer And then a lot of producers are probably, as we get later into the fall, looking at a silage or a baleage harvest or some of these cover crops, if they choose not to graze them. It's important that if we're going to make bailage or silage that we hit our dry matter targets. So for silage, we can be at the 35 to 40% dry matter at times. 00:07:17:10 - 00:07:46:23 Travis Meteer But our baleage window probably needs to be 40 to 60% dry matter with our target around 50%, making good silage and good baleage can provide a lot of really high quality feed for animals on the farm. But if we make it poor or we get it too late, or the moisture window's not right, or we don't get it packed, we allow some, higher levels of oxygen penetration into our, our silage pile or our bales. 00:07:46:25 - 00:08:08:17 Travis Meteer And we get poor fermentation. That can be a really that can be a headache and a hassle and reduce the feed value. So there's a lot of things that go in to thoughts there. I would just think I would just ask row crop farmers to think about looking across the fence. There's a lot of their neighbors is already doing this just for the soil health and the soil erosion benefits of cover crops. 00:08:08:19 - 00:08:43:22 Travis Meteer Think about adding livestock, and then that's when the dollars and cents really start to rake in, because those animals can utilize that. We can put gain on livestock or maintain our beef cows and still have the benefits that row crop farmers are probably already, you know, capitalizing on for these these cover crops. One other comment that I would just make is that, we touched on a little bit, but graze, grazing and extending the hay or extending the grazing season can be a big money saver for a cow calf operation. 00:08:43:25 - 00:09:11:07 Travis Meteer And when, many producers may be looking at maybe something as simple as cereal rye for a cover crop and harvesting that cereal rye in the form of of silage or baleage in the spring, has got very popular with livestock producers and incorporating that into growing rations or backgrounding cattle rations and beef cow rations really seems to work out, and it's pretty nice. 00:09:11:07 - 00:09:42:08 Travis Meteer I think mentality wise, for, a livestock producer to have a fair amount of feed made at the very beginning of the season. And so not having to rely on our summer hay harvest or, baling late season or, or corn stocks to have a lot of feed put up at the beginning of the year is a really just settling feeling mentally to know that, hey, I've got some I've got forage in the bag when we get, to mid-May. 00:09:42:10 - 00:09:45:07 Travis Meteer That's a nice feeling for for livestock producers. 00:09:45:10 - 00:10:13:23 Todd Gleason Travis Meteer is an Illinois extension educator specializing in beef production. Dean Oswald is a retired extension specialist and now works for Midwest Grass and Forage out of Macomb, where he is a grazing specialist. So you've been doing this for a long time, and you've been working with, beef cattle and other thing, other livestock, trying to develop ways to include cover crops and forages into operations. 00:10:13:26 - 00:10:19:02 Todd Gleason Can you tell me about how this is evolved over the years in Illinois? 00:10:19:02 - 00:10:43:29 Dean Oswald Yes. Cover crops have a long history in Illinois. And, actually, farmers have been using cover crops as a forage. It actually began before we had commercial nitrogen. And livestock producers typically used alfalfa and clovers in a long rotation before they planted their corn. 00:10:43:29 - 00:11:27:09 Dean Oswald So, often they had barley, oats, wheat or cereal rye, and used it as a cover crop or a nurse crop for the legumes that they produced. They used legumes for livestock feed. Also use the straw from the, cereal crop, in their livestock operations. So, as we developed and used, commercial nitrogen, the use in, the long rotations actually, decreased and we went to the corn soybean route. 00:11:27:11 - 00:11:58:15 Dean Oswald And during the 90s, then I would say that, U of I extension livestock educators were working with producers to encourage the use of more cover crops, manage grazing and extending the grazing season. And, that's where we started to see more, the use of the cover crops, actually, before we, even heard of, nutrient loss reduction strategies. 00:11:58:15 - 00:12:16:13 Dean Oswald So, now we can provide high quality forages by using cover crops and, and, reduce nutrient loss at the same time by keeping those, those cover crops out there over bare fields. 00:12:16:13 - 00:12:23:25 Todd Gleason Interseeding of cover crops, this fall, you've done some work with that kind of thing. Can it increase forage quality? 00:12:23:27 - 00:12:24:05 Dean Oswald Yeah. 00:12:24:05 - 00:12:54:03 Dean Oswald I think if we look at, the, forage situation that we've had, especially this year, we're coming off of two years of forage shortage. And, actually, we've used a lot of, cover crops in the spring for livestock producers to try to find additional forage, for their herds. This year we had, as you know, a very wet spring. 00:12:54:05 - 00:13:56:09 Dean Oswald And the amount of good quality feed has been really, reduced. We had increased tonnages with first cutting, but the quality was very poor in most cases. Then the second cutting was was kind of light because a lot of it ended up in that first cutting because of the late harvest. So if we utilize some interseeding into, into standing crops like, corn, we can have some high quality forage, produced yet this fall, cover crops as a whole, if they are harvested, well, sometime before November as grazing or as, baleage, can be extremely high quality feed with proteins, up to 30%. 00:13:56:11 - 00:14:23:24 Dean Oswald Actually they can they can be very high quality forages. So, we've got poor quality first cutting short second cutting. We don't know exactly what the third cutting is going to be. We've experienced a drought in about a third of the state, or near drought in the central and northwestern Illinois. So we haven't had as much growth there as we would like to have. 00:14:23:26 - 00:14:53:05 Dean Oswald And this year we have the the additional problem was to prevent plant acres and those can be used, if, if they're, if you wait till after September 1st, which is another issue. But, you know, timing is everything. And getting the, the covers planted at the right time, and the right time may not have been August 1st when 00:14:53:05 - 00:15:28:23 Dean Oswald the deadline, came up for getting paid for those acres. But it's something we have to deal with. And. And what we have left now is probably the the best time for cover crop planting is, right now, as we're speaking, we've we've had a little rain this last week. If we go ahead and get those covers put on, we can utilize some of the, probably the most available would be the, spring oats and, winter cereal rye. 00:15:28:25 - 00:15:54:04 Dean Oswald Possibly some, turnips or or radishes, that type of brassica. But, are supplies of other species are really limited this year because of the, the early draw on the system for prevent plant acres and, beef producers trying to find additional forage early in the spring. 00:15:54:05 - 00:15:58:06 Dean Oswald Dean Oswald is a grass and forage specialist out of Macomb, Illinois. 00:15:58:06 - 00:16:14:04 Todd Gleason Terry Wyciskalla is here as well. He's a soil fertility specialist with Wyciskalla Consulting out of southern Illinois. Terry, thanks for being with us. Can you talk a little bit about a project you've been collaborating with Illinois Farm Bureau on in Clinton County, Illinois? 00:16:14:10 - 00:16:29:17 Terry Wyciskalla Yeah. Back in 2015, the Illinois Farm Bureau, board met, and they, I had to get a paper from Lauren Lurkins on this, and they committed $100,000 toward a what they called a nutrient stewardship grant program. 00:16:29:19 - 00:16:54:12 Terry Wyciskalla And what that was set up to do was, offer financial assistance to the individual county farm bureaus or, or groups of counties that wanted to get together and implement local projects to, help address AG's role in Illinois. As far as our farmers being good, nutrient and land stewards, as well as trying to help address the these issues we face with water quality. 00:16:54:14 - 00:17:16:20 Terry Wyciskalla So it all started at the state level and trickled down to the county level. And, I was brought in as a technical advisor and a guy that does a lot of the work and that for Clinton County Farm Bureau, because I've had customers there and some, relationships with board members and, Farm Bureau members in the county as well. 00:17:16:20 - 00:17:42:01 Terry Wyciskalla So our project is which probably will lead into your second question here. Our project is being about cover crops and manure management because, Clinton County is one of our our largest dairy counties in the state. And we have faced we have a lot of animal manure to, utilize in that county. And so we took the approach of educational awareness. 00:17:42:01 - 00:17:44:19 Todd Gleason Your target audience is dairy producers then? 00:17:44:21 - 00:18:11:05 Terry Wyciskalla Predominantly, which when you look at Clinton County, I would say 70% of the county is dairy producers in that Farm Bureau membership. You know, we do have some beef in the county and large swine operations. The but, you know, so it's targeting the livestock operators in particular, and especially the small and medium size livestock operations, because, face it, the big ones are under state and federal scrutiny. 00:18:11:05 - 00:18:29:03 Terry Wyciskalla And in order for agriculture to to progress forward in the future, everybody's got to be involved with this water quality issue. You're facing all of our watersheds in Illinois, all the way down to the Gulf of Mexico. So that's where we came in with this educational awareness approach. 00:18:29:03 - 00:18:31:16 Todd Gleason So how long are the projects been going on? 00:18:31:19 - 00:18:37:24 Terry Wyciskalla This, letter came out in 2015, and we submitted, our project proposal in 2016. 00:18:37:26 - 00:18:50:00 Terry Wyciskalla And I don't know whether, they like our project upstate or what, but we've been the only one fortunate enough to be renewed three times. So we're on year four of this project. 00:18:50:07 - 00:18:54:07 Todd Gleason And what is it and what kinds of of things have you discovered along the way? 00:18:54:09 - 00:19:17:05 Terry Wyciskalla Well, each each year we try to do something different. We, we’re trying to bring in some, bigger names outside of our arena, you know, just just not having a bunch of county people, and regular farmers talking to the other growers that we talk about, cover crops, manure management, we, you know, I think I sent you a letter that had our list of collaborators. 00:19:17:07 - 00:19:50:18 Terry Wyciskalla You may or may not have seen that, but, we we do a lot of work with Kaskaskia College and their students coming and helping on this project. And as far as the educational and outreach we we put out strip trials for different cover crops. We have soil pit digs every year, and we allow the we put the invite out to local high schools to come in and use the soil pit for preparation for soil judging in the fall and we we never have quite hit that we're quite right as far as being able to get a bunch of kids out there at one time. 00:19:50:20 - 00:20:11:14 Terry Wyciskalla But then we look at how these cover crops operate below the soil surface, so the farmers can actually see that, you know, those that are on the fence that are, considering starting to use cover crops. And then we have, you know, some stuff in the field days are a little more advanced for those that are utilizing the cover crops to, to improve soil health, improve water quality. 00:20:11:14 - 00:20:38:09 Terry Wyciskalla And in Clinton County, we're utilizing these covers, as another feed source for the dairy cows. I mean, it's working very, very well on many operations where we're using an annual rye grass or cereal rye grass as the first forage crop, and we double crop it with corn silage. That's the rotation on these fields. And then we manage the manures in and around the planting of the covers and the corn silage. 00:20:38:12 - 00:20:45:23 Todd Gleason So these are strategies, management strategies that producers can and maybe should in your opinion, implement already. 00:20:45:25 - 00:21:07:15 Terry Wyciskalla Yes. I mean, they can't implement it where we're planting the seed, so to speak, for for them to get interest. And then we have a whole host of regional experts that can help them along. So they can start small on the cover crops, get a feel for them and progress and advance into more. 00:21:07:17 - 00:21:30:08 Terry Wyciskalla I won't say difficult, but more advanced scenarios as far as cover crop mix is that is, it's just like going back years ago to, no till switching away from the bowl board plow. You have to start small with cover crops because one failure can put a producer off of cover crops forever. And there are successes and there are failures. 00:21:30:08 - 00:21:49:02 Terry Wyciskalla But we we have good support people through the county to help. If we have a bit of an issue or a failure, just of the the producers just don't walk away from and say, well, I'm not trying that again. Because it's a it's something that takes time and it's just about like anything new. And in agriculture it takes time for adoption. 00:21:49:02 - 00:21:53:09 Terry Wyciskalla And and you have to work through the good with the bad. 00:21:53:11 - 00:21:59:14 Todd Gleason So what management strategies can livestock producers implement to reduce nutrient loss in local water bodies? 00:21:59:14 - 00:22:15:03 Terry Wyciskalla Well, what we've done in the county and this was it was, a lot of assistance from the of Kaskaskia College. We took and get manure samples collected and actually do manure analyzes versus using book values. 00:22:15:05 - 00:22:37:28 Terry Wyciskalla And we offer that through the county to all of the members in the county for free manure analysis. It's paid out of this grant. And then we went out and did physical spreader calibrations in the field versus using those book values, because you'll you'll get a new piece of equipment and it will have a spreader value. So many tons per acre is being applied. 00:22:37:28 - 00:23:00:25 Terry Wyciskalla If it's a, a litter spreader at such and such RPM speed with your tractor. Well, when we did the physical calibrations, the book values were telling us anywhere from 3 to 4 ton per acre was being applied at the settings on the spreader, and the tractor. When we with the physical calibration, we had values that could range anywhere from seven to maybe 8 to 12 ton per acre. 00:23:00:25 - 00:23:29:07 Terry Wyciskalla So there were situations where we had over applications by using book values. So, you know, we're stressing calibrate your spreader, do the manure analysis and then look at those nitrogen and phosphorus best management practices. You know what that manure analysis you can credit the nitrogen and phosphorus being applied to that field and then deduct those values from any supplemental dry commercial fertilizers that that may be needed. 00:23:29:09 - 00:23:54:12 Terry Wyciskalla And then to go along with those BMPs, we try to encourage the farmers to use adequate but not excessive rates of nitrogen and phosphorus. That helps with water quality. And one thing about manures, crop plants need about six units of nitrogen for every one unit of phosphorus. When we’re applying manures, we're applying anywhere from 2 to 3 units of phosphorus with every 6 pounds of nitrogen. 00:23:54:12 - 00:24:12:05 Terry Wyciskalla So when we apply it, that nitrogen rate, we're already applying over applying phosphorus. So through, you know, educational awareness we get them to reduce the rates a little bit. And yes, we have to use some supplemental commercial nitrogen fertilizer. But in the long run that's better for water quality. 00:24:12:07 - 00:24:18:00 Todd Gleason That's Terry Wyciskalla, he's the soil fertility specialist with Wyciskalla Consulting out of southern Illinois. 00:24:18:00 - 00:24:24:24 Todd Gleason You’ve been listening to the Illinois Nutrient Loss Reduction podcast. I'm U of I extension's Todd Gleason.