Latest / Health with Hashimoto’s - Thyroid or Immune Education for Autoimmune Thyroid Disease / What if your thyroid is a victim, not the cause, of Hashimoto's ⎸ Ep. 210 with Dr. Jess Armine

Transcript

What if your thyroid is a victim, not the cause, of Hashimoto's ⎸ Ep. 210 with Dr. Jess Armine · Health with Hashimoto’s - Thyroid or Immune Education for Autoimmune Thyroid Disease

• 0:00
  If I was a victim, it's not the cause. It's a downstream effect.
• 0:03
  And the fetish thing you get with Hashimoto's is not laziness, it's cellular energy.
• 0:09
  It's a cellular energy crisis.
• 0:11
  Welcome to episode 210 of the Health with Hashimoto's podcast.
• 0:15
  Today I am interviewing a super, super smart guy, Dr. Jess Armin.
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  He has over 50 or nearly 50 years of clinical experience, 5-0.
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  That is a lot of experience.
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  He has been through nursing school, chiropractic school. He has worked with
• 0:29
  so many people and he loves complex medical stuff.
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  He loves helping people who have sought help everywhere else and then he finds them solutions.
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  So I think you're going to find this episode fascinating.
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  He did make an infographic for this interview. You'll want to head over to the blog.
• 0:51
  The link is always down in the show notes.
• 0:54
  Welcome back to the Health with Hashimoto's podcast. I'm Esther Yunkin.
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  I have been a nurse for over 25 years, and the last several years have been
• 1:01
  focused on one thing, helping women with Hashimoto's stop drowning in information
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  and start making sense of it.
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  You don't have an information problem with Hashimoto's.
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  You typically have a sorting problem. Everything you've learned falls into one
• 1:15
  of two buckets, thyroid or immune.
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  Sort it, and you finally know where
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  to start. I'm the nurse who sorts your Hashimoto's into thyroid or immune.
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  All right. Welcome, Dr. Jess. Tell us a little bit about yourself.
• 1:28
  Well, thank you for having me on your podcast. I really appreciate the opportunity
• 1:32
  to speak with you and your audience.
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  I've been a healthcare provider for approximately 50 years. At first,
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  in 1975, I was an EMT, a heramedic in New York City, and then I went to college
• 1:43
  for nursing. I had a BSN in nursing.
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  Most of my nursing career was in emergency department and intensive care, coronary care.
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  I used to be head nurse for a coronary care, and then decided to go to chiropractic
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  school. I was going to go to medical school, but I noticed that I resonated
• 2:01
  better with chiropractic.
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  I graduated there in 1986. And since then, I've been practicing chiropractic.
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  Now, the first 10 years, I was practicing standard chiropractic,
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  but became interested in a wide range of alternative medicine.
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  And one of my children developed schizophrenia, which put me into a very steep learning curve.
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  And I found that learning different things like genetics and neurology,
• 2:30
  endocrinology, immunology, mitochondrial function, and things like cell membrane stability, and,
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  what I did was I was in the forefront of all this stuff,
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  and starting to put this all together.
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  My son, from being dysfunctional, is now a graphic artist, and he's got a full-time
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  job, and he does very, very well. one of the most intelligent people I know.
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  But I developed a system of looking at something, which I call bio-individualized
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  medicine, which is just a name I put on this particular thought paradigm.
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  And even when people who told everything that was normal,
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  They felt anything but normal. I had a lot of people like that.
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  Okay, normal lab tests. I said, why am I still sick? Okay.
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  And I started seeing patterns, certain things that led me to the way that I practice.
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  Now, my practice is complex multifactorial illnesses that haven't achieved success
• 3:24
  elsewhere. I'm very successful at that because I look at things from a different point of view.
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  Yes, that is awesome.
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  And your view includes the whole person. Like you don't separate it out.
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  Like let's look just at your thyroid labs. You look at the whole picture.
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  Yes. Exactly. So if you're meeting with somebody and they say,
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  I have Hashimoto's and I have all these symptoms.
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  Right. Where do you start?
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  Well, I always start with their chief concern. Okay. And then we morph into,
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  taking an entire history and literally from the time they were a baby or actually in utero forward.
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  Now, obviously, we don't remember that, but your mother would have told you
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  stories and stuff like that over time.
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  And I developed a timeline of how your health was when you were young,
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  how your neurological system was working, whether you had multiple infections, that kind of stuff.
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  And over time, I see a particular pattern, and when there was deviations from
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  that pattern, I know that.
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  Because, you know, Hashimoto's is an autoimmune disease.
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  And the sad thing about autoimmune is that the common wisdom is that it's incurable
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  and it's chronic and it stinks to be you, okay?
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  And that's the premise. I don't want to sound cynical or fabricating to my medical
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  colleagues because this is the way they're trained, okay? And they simply,
• 4:48
  again, have a different point of view. So when I look at everything, I look at everything.
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  I'll go through all your prior tests. I'm not one of those guys that bought
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  us a bunch of tests, where you have to get these before you see me.
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  And realizing that the thyroid isn't broken in my head, it is simply overwhelmed.
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  And then I have to ask myself, what is overwhelming?
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  Where did it start? You know, it's not only the root causes it engendered the
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  chronic inflammation, it is what that inflammation has done to the body.
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  Now, some people express this thyroid issues. And of course,
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  Hashimoto's is, you know, the antibodies are up.
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  So you know that the body is attacking the thyroid.
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  You have to ask yourself the question, why would the body attack itself?
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  If it were a true genetic problem, it would be present at birth.
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  Why did it show up at a certain time? Is there genetic predisposition? Yes.
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  Okay. But because you have a genetic predisposition, it doesn't mean you're going to get it.
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  Something has to, if you will, kick it off. Okay. And so I start delving into that.
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  And lots of times, the relationship between, let's say, COVID and a spike protein,
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  or Lyme disease, or chronic candida, or things like that, are now recognized
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  as factors that would make the cells dysfunctional,
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  that would result in chronic inflammation, usually through leaky gut syndrome
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  and stuff, and then express as Hashimoto's, or express as mood disorders,
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  or express as anything else.
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  Because I look at those things as effects, not primary things.
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  Hashimoto's, yes, is a diagnosis, but a diagnosis should point at a root cause.
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  All they're doing is saying, hey, you have these symptoms.
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  Okay, that fits into Hashimoto's. If you have OCD, that's not a diagnosis.
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  The explain. A sore throat is a symptom. A strep throat tells me why you have a sore throat.
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  That's a diagnosis. Obsessive-compulsive disorder tells me you have this particular set of symptoms.
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  It doesn't tell me why. Well, in psychiatry, they don't have a why.
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  It's just a set of, you know, it's like autism. It's a roll of the cosmic dice.
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  Really? it? Oh, then how come in 1970, it was one in 10,000 births and it's now one in 34? Okay.
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  Better diagnosis doesn't explain that. All right. We all know that it's,
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  you know, various things in the environment. It could be vaccines,
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  plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, you know, it's the cut.
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  It's the conglomeration of things.
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  So when I look at things from that point of view, when I consider the genetics,
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  and I consider a paradigm called neuroendorminology,
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  which is It's the neurological system, which puts out neurotransmitters,
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  the endocrine system, which puts out hormones, and the immune system,
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  which puts out things called cytokines and.
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  They interact. They have the receptors for their systems, but the other systems
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  have the receptors for each other's systems, so they're constantly talking about it.
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  It's one of the ways we balance our body towards homeostasis.
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  When I consider that, so if it's thyroid, I'll look at adrenals.
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  I'll look at sex hormones.
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  I'll look at the neurotransmitters, and I'll look at the immune system.
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  Because if what you're doing is not resolving it, I better look at the other
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  systems, because they're going to be involved.
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  I also look at the mitochondrial function, which is key, because mitochondria
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  produce the energy that your body uses to function and to heal.
• 8:29
  Now, the constant argument about that is, well, you know, how do you know my
• 8:34
  mitochondria is not functioning? I said, well, if you're ill,
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  they're not functioning well.
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  If you're standing up looking at me, your mitochondria are functioning to a
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  certain degree. It's not on or off with the mitochondria. It's a matter of degree, okay?
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  So if they're working normally at, let's say, 95%, I'm going to just pull numbers
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  out of the air, 95%, shall we say, and you get ill, an acute illness, it pops down to 85 or 80%.
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  Well, when that resolves, it goes back up. But when you have several root causes
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  working with something that is constantly affecting you, let's say mold. mold.
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  Mold's affecting you. It's kind of this constant thing in your house you get into sports.
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  Whatever it is, if you have a chronic infection like Lyme disease that is always
• 9:18
  there and we're always working toward it, and actually.
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  It's been scientifically proven that all the spiritual, emotional,
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  and psychological problems that we fix, okay, if they're not resolved,
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  or at least, you know, it depends on how bad it is.
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  Like, obviously, a rape is different from, you know, breaking off with a significant other.
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  That's going to be working down in the background.
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  And that's a reason for selling the dysfunction over time, as it takes longer,
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  but it sticks. And, you know, you have to look for these things,
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  right? Because if you don't resolve them, the constant attack on the cells remains,
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  and then the downstream effects.
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  So, you need to look at that. And then, of course, I look at mitochondria function.
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  Because if we pay attention to the parameters of what's necessary there,
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  that'll start working again.
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  How do you look at mitochondria function? Is it just interviewing somebody and
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  saying, you're tired, there's something going on, or you're sick,
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  so we know there's mitochondria. How do you dig into that?
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  There are tests you can do. It's not a guess. It's reality. If you are ill,
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  one of the major parameters is that your mitochondria are working.
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  Because you need that energy, which is called ATP, and there's some triphosphate,
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  for any kind of healing, for your biochemical processes to work and so forth.
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  So I concentrate more on how to even,
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  support that, which is also supporting, what you do for a cell is what you do for the mitochondria.
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  It's the same stuff, okay? Let's say they're basically all of the NLs, okay?
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  And why do I concentrate on the cell? Well, you put cells together,
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  you get tissues. You put tissues together, you get organs.
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  And I'm not trying to be, you know, condescending, but people don't think about it this way.
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  And you put organs together, you get a body. So if you try and heal from the
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  outside in, What you're really doing is just compensating for the downstream
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  effect, which is the symptoms.
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  I'm looking at actual cellular function. What makes them dysfunctional? What can cause that?
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  And then what it did. So how do I figure out mitochondrial function? I do it on history.
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  And the fact is, if you've been chronically ill, it's something you want to fix.
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  And the same things I do for fixing a cell is what you fix the mitochondria.
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  There's some little difference, but it's included in my consideration.
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  Since it's always there, it's just by definition, you can't do the test,
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  but the test will only tell you that it's dysfunctional. I sit there and go, duh.
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  Okay. I'm bad. So what's the next step after you say, okay, you've got Hashimoto's,
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  you've got inflammation, you've got mitochondria, you've got all of this stuff.
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  What's the first simple step that you would ask somebody to look at?
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  So, again, I look at everybody's entire history. And of course,
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  whatever testing they have.
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  But in the treatment range, first of all, you have to realize that the thyroid
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  is responding to... The thyroid's a victim.
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  It's not the cause. It's a downstream effect, okay?
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  And the fatigue and the fatigue that you get with Hashimoto's is not laziness.
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  It's cellular energy. It's a cellular energy crisis.
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  So that's where you might contribute to how men. But what I look at is the first
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  thing I do is like, okay, how can I heal these cells?
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  And one of the common things.
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  That are deficient, that allow the cells not to be dysfunctional.
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  In other words, not working. So simple, simple stuff.
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  Or your biochemical processes, which is what runs the cell. But your genes create enzymes.
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  Enzymes turn one thing into another, into another, into another,
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  until it gets to what your body needs, okay? So I look at that and I say to
• 13:02
  myself, okay, what makes this work?
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  Well, you need vitamins and minerals, which we call cofactors,
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  to make those enzymes work at speed. Those are, what, vitamins?
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  So we don't want to take vitamins. And then I think about, okay, it's absorption.
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  If you have any kind of gut problem, you can take something by mouth.
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  And remember, when you take something by mouth, vitamins or anything,
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  it gets absorbed, hopefully.
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  Okay, then it goes through the liver a couple times. Then it gets released in
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  circulation. Then it's got to get into the cells.
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  So I say to myself, how am I going to get these vitamins and minerals into the
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  cells so the biochemical processes can use it? I'll use liposomal vitamins.
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  Liposomal will get directly into the cells. goes right through the mucous membranes,
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  and we'll get directly into the cells, okay?
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  So that's the first thing I think about, and one of my first interventions, okay?
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  Believe it or not, we live in an environment, especially mineral deficient society.
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  So that's a pretty good, this is even before we're looking, you know,
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  we have to look for root causes, but.
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  When I'm starting with somebody, this is something people can do on their own.
• 14:03
  Hey, I'm jumping in to interrupt this interview for just a second.
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  He's going to suggest to go on Amazon and search for liposomal multivitamins.
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  If you have listened to this podcast for any length of time,
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  you know that I never, ever, ever recommend getting your supplements from Amazon.
• 14:18
  There's just too many counterfeits. Counterfeits that look good,
• 14:21
  that sound like they're from good companies.
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  It's just not trustworthy, in my opinion. after, you know, decades of looking
• 14:28
  at this, however long Amazon has been around.
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  So I never recommend getting supplements on Amazon. I recommend Fullscript instead.
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  It's like the high quality Amazon.
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  There's tons and tons of brands. Dr. Jess is going to tell you to search for
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  a liposomal multivitamin.
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  So I did that on Fullscript and without doing any digging into like third-party
• 14:48
  testing or anything, the best one that I found on Fullscript that has liposomal
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  in it is from the company Codeage.
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  It looks like the words code and age squished together.
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  It's Beyond Vitamins. It's a platinum woman's multivitamin.
• 15:06
  It looks amazing. It looks like it has what you need for your vitamin D,
• 15:09
  your iodine, your selenium, like all the things that we've talked about many
• 15:14
  times. It also has ashwagandha and turmeric.
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  It has some probiotics. It looks really good. So head over to Fullscript,
• 15:23
  link down in the show notes instead of Amazon. All right, back to the interview.
• 15:28
  If you go to Amazon, type in liposomal multivitamins, you're going to see it.
• 15:32
  Okay, and they're not overly expensive either. They used to be,
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  but now, of course, supply and demand. So many people are making them.
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  And if they're coming in a capsule, believe it or not, that actually works.
• 15:42
  I know the man who created the process of developing a dry liposome that actually gets in.
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  All right, so the liposomal vitamins and minerals, or at least liquid minerals,
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  okay, so that gets absorbed.
• 15:56
  The next thing we think about is, okay, let's do this inflammation.
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  What generates inflammation? By and large, it's leaky gut syndrome.
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  I know it doesn't seem like it's related, but it is.
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  Leaky gut syndrome is when the gut develops, if you will, holes,
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  and things that are in the intestine fall through.
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  For instance, most people don't digest very well.
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  Let's think about protein. The protein is definitely more than a long chain of amino acids, okay?
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  When you break that down completely, you're breaking it down to the amino acids,
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  which gets absorbed literally through the cells.
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  Then the body reconstructs it as it needs it, okay? But if you don't break it
• 16:38
  down completely, you break them down to these little short-chain proteins, which are antigens.
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  They go in and your body reacts to them. That antibody, antigen-antibody reaction,
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  that's what creates inflammation. And the more and more and more you do it,
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  the bigger and bigger the inflammation happens. And generally speaking,
• 16:54
  you start seeing food detoxes.
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  And as the inflammation builds, you start seeing autoimmunity.
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  Then neuroautonomia. And then things like dysautonomia, like POTS and,
• 17:03
  you know, it starts affecting the autonomic nervous system.
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  How about you treat for leaky gut? And like, well, how do you know somebody's
• 17:08
  got leaky gut? Well, there are tests she could do.
• 17:11
  What if I presume you have leaky gut? If I treat you with some digestive enzymes
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  and suddenly you get that mucus laid back, like the fertile autosaccharides,
• 17:18
  things like Slibreal, Martini-Lion, or,
• 17:21
  these I'll talk to saccharides or whatever, you know, and I give you maybe some
• 17:25
  butyrate or maybe thalidomide, delta cells heal and maybe balance that microbiome a bit.
• 17:30
  Am I hurting you? But if you have leaky gut, good.
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  And I either have a test that says you don't, or I don't believe that you have
• 17:37
  leaky gut and I don't treat it, am I hurting you?
• 17:39
  Absolutely. I'm letting the inflammation continue. So the common criminal here.
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  The usual suspect, is leaky gut.
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  So I treat that, and the nut starts dropping insulation.
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  All right, jumping back in for a second. There's a bit more background noise
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  and also my cat jumped on my lap. So I cut out a couple of minutes and we're
• 18:00
  going to resume as he was talking about disease being a bully.
• 18:04
  All right, so you were saying disease is a bully. So how do you protect yourself from that bully?
• 18:09
  Well, protecting yourself, remember if you have Hashimoto's,
• 18:12
  it's already there, okay?
• 18:14
  So you got to go backwards. Yeah, and I'm telling you not to take your medicines.
• 18:18
  It's dysfunctional and you need your medicines, okay? Until, but what you can do,
• 18:23
  is go after the parameters that got you there okay so the very basis is start
• 18:28
  feeding the cells what it needs,
• 18:30
  what they need to work what they need are vitamins and minerals so the,
• 18:34
  biochemical process can work and when you treat leaky gut you're going to digest
• 18:38
  the enzymes fixing the cell wall so now you're taking care of a major portion,
• 18:42
  and if you maybe have to eat a little cookie town or something there are other
• 18:46
  things to look at of course okay but if you start there, which is comparatively simple,
• 18:53
  you're going to handle a goodly portion of what has been ignored over time.
• 18:58
  Because as you progress with chronic inflammation, which is.
• 19:04
  Expressing as Hashimoto's and Muslims,
• 19:07
  those cells are becoming more and more and more damp. I mean,
• 19:11
  no one's going to argue with that.
• 19:12
  If you start that process lots of times within a short period of time like a
• 19:16
  month or two, you may feel differences. Your fatigue may go or may be mitigated to a certain degree.
• 19:23
  Beyond that, you have to look for different root causes that are not normally
• 19:27
  associated with calcium. One big one is gluten intolerance.
• 19:31
  Okay, gluten tends to want to stick to the thyroid and making dysfunction.
• 19:35
  How do you work with that? Well, you can go on a gluten-free diet,
• 19:38
  but if you don't fix the leaky gut yet, if anybody's got food allergies,
• 19:41
  they get testing, don't eat these foods, and they're on other foods, right?
• 19:45
  And then six months later, they don't have antibodies in that.
• 19:48
  They have antibodies to this, okay?
• 19:50
  When you see that kind of stuff, okay, unless you're on a really restrictive
• 19:53
  diet, like you can have water and four pieces of lettuce a day,
• 19:57
  you know, and then after a while, you're going to be reactive to the lettuce.
• 20:00
  That's all leaky gut. I love seeing somebody who has got no hope in life and
• 20:05
  they're just living a chronic illness and seeing them just wake up and start
• 20:11
  being social again and have that change in attitude.
• 20:14
  Somebody asked me the other day about, is remission possible?
• 20:18
  Can you ever be cured of Hashimoto's?
• 20:20
  We don't have a ton of time left, but can you give my listeners some hope?
• 20:25
  Is there a probability of remission? Yes. Is there a probability of a cause? Yes.
• 20:29
  And I never met somebody who's got only one autoimmune disease or one issue
• 20:34
  when it comes to this. There are several others, okay?
• 20:37
  And when you treat the body as a whole, and you get it to work the way it's
• 20:41
  supposed to getting what it needs and getting out of the way,
• 20:43
  so to speak, not micromanaging, you see that whole body curing happens,
• 20:49
  whole body function comes back.
• 20:51
  Is this possible? If you walk away with anything from Cher,
• 20:55
  understand that this is not your full time, okay? There's nothing wrong with your knee.
• 21:00
  Your thyroid is not broken. It's just under a ton of stress.
• 21:05
  And those stressors are things like chronic inflammation, oximeter stress, soul, same thing, okay?
• 21:10
  And if we start looking at that and start working with that,
• 21:13
  simple definition by extrapolation, by logic, things should start getting better.
• 21:17
  But your body wants to heal. It was me to do that.
• 21:21
  That's so encouraging. People just need to hear from people who have seen it
• 21:25
  happen over and over. And I know you have. So thank you for sharing that.
• 21:28
  So trying to summarize the whole thing, you're saying, look at the body as a whole.
• 21:33
  Look at all of the factors. Also, look at the cell.
• 21:37
  You have to look at the whole picture, but you also have to look at the building blocks.
• 21:41
  And then help calm down the inflammation, address the leaky gut.
• 21:44
  Make sure your body is getting all of the ingredients that it needs,
• 21:47
  vitamins and minerals. And it's all in full form. Yep.
• 21:50
  That's a lot. And I love that perspective because you have seen people who have
• 21:55
  put all of that into practice and who have achieved their goal of feeling like
• 21:59
  themselves again, of not seeing any evidence of that disease.
• 22:03
  So overall, if there's only one thing, you know, somebody comes to this podcast
• 22:08
  and she's overwhelmed, if she could only take one thing away from our conversation,
• 22:12
  what's the most important thing that you want her to remember?
• 22:16
  I want her to remember that she's not broken, that there are probabilities,
• 22:20
  possibilities that could improve her life significantly,
• 22:26
  which is, in this case, controlling this issue and the other issues that are
• 22:31
  unmentioned that are there, hormonal problems, stuff like that.
• 22:34
  It's possible to fix your body.
• 22:36
  Okay? It is not only possible, it's probable, given the way that it's normal.
• 22:41
  This kind of stuff is normal. So in order to do one thing, understand that there's
• 22:46
  nothing wrong with you, that your body or the issue is broken,
• 22:49
  if you will, and you're dealing with a cellular energy crisis.
• 22:53
  You're dealing with things that have caused this that can be modified and can be fixed.
• 23:00
  That's it for today's episode of Health with Hashimoto's. If you're new here,
• 23:03
  start with my free guide, 10 Questions to Ask Your Doctor. It's linked in the show notes.
• 23:07
  If you've been listening for a while and you're ready to act,
• 23:09
  then check out Hashimoto's Decoded.
• 23:11
  It walks you through sorting everything into thyroid or immune.
• 23:15
  And as always, this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only.
• 23:19
  Please discuss any questions or concerns
• 23:21
  with your trusted healthcare professional. I'll see you next week.