Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Special Update: Fugitive teacher Tad Cummins & kidnapped student sighted in OKC

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Special Update: Fugitive teacher Tad Cummins & kidnapped student sighted in OKC · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: This is a special edition Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
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Speaker 1: ranging right now. The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation confirms a
0:11
Speaker 1: signing a fifteen year old Elizabeth Thomas and Tad Cummings.
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Speaker 1: T b I says Cummins use cash to purchase food items,
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Speaker 1: but did not buy anything else of significance. Elizabeth Thomas
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Speaker 1: was brand new to the Coloca School in Murray County.
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Speaker 1: She started as a freshman this year, entering the public
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Speaker 1: school system for the very first time. She's fifteen, he's fifty.
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Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. TB says the
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Speaker 1: Cummins was a teacher. A student reported seeing Cummins kissing
0:40
Speaker 1: Elizabeth in his classroom in late January. Police arrested Elizabeth's mom,
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Speaker 1: Kimberly Thomas, last year. They charged her with five council
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Speaker 1: child abuse and neglect. Cummins told two students he's a
0:52
Speaker 1: father figure to Elizabeth, told my daughter from me. There
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Speaker 1: is breaking news in the search for school girl Elizabeth Thomas.
1:03
Speaker 1: A major break has just gone down. Believe it or not.
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Speaker 1: The two Elizabeth Thomas, the kidnaped girl, and the pervy teacher,
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Speaker 1: Tad Commons, have been spotted as far away as Oklahoma.
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Speaker 1: Joining me right now a special guest with us at
1:22
Speaker 1: Crime Stories, Jason Watley, who has been in this from
1:26
Speaker 1: the beginning representing Elizabeth family. I, Nancy Grace, this is
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Speaker 1: Crime Stories also with me, Alan Duke. I'm going to
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Speaker 1: go straight to Jason Venoan trial lawyer in Tennessee. Jason,
1:39
Speaker 1: what do we know? Well, what we know that today
1:42
Speaker 1: several images uh were that surfaced and released by the
1:46
Speaker 1: tv I. All confirmed and when you see them, it's
1:48
Speaker 1: obvious that is Tad Cummings in Elizabeth Thomas. That that
1:51
Speaker 1: came out today from a Walmart in Oklahoma City. It
1:54
Speaker 1: was from March fifteen, which is two days after she left.
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Speaker 1: We don't know what time yet the video was taken,
2:00
Speaker 1: So we don't know if this morning, afternoon or whatever.
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Speaker 1: But we know it's them. So and another thing we
2:06
Speaker 1: don't know, Nancy, we don't know why it took so
2:08
Speaker 1: long to give this. We know that the tv I
2:10
Speaker 1: got this information about midweek. Uh that that's the most
2:14
Speaker 1: that we know, or at least the tip came in midweek.
2:17
Speaker 1: We don't know when they had the pictures, but so
2:20
Speaker 1: but but from the investigatory side, we know that that
2:22
Speaker 1: law enforcement didn't even have the tip until midweek of
2:26
Speaker 1: this week, And of course this makes it very old,
2:28
Speaker 1: and as the first tangible proof that we have that
2:31
Speaker 1: they're together, it gives us a direction as well. Well.
2:34
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not really telling me a lot that
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Speaker 1: I don't already know. I know they're together, I know
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Speaker 1: he took her, but in a way, in a sense,
2:42
Speaker 1: is giving me a wealth of information. I know now
2:45
Speaker 1: they absolutely have altered their appearance. Alan, let's go through.
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Speaker 1: What did you see in the pictures? It appears to
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Speaker 1: me Nancy that in fact had Commins, as we had predicted,
2:55
Speaker 1: has colored his whiskers, darkened his hair to make perhaps
2:59
Speaker 1: himself look younger and different. And it looks also to
3:03
Speaker 1: me that her hair is now red. Of course, maybe
3:06
Speaker 1: Jason Whatley could tell us if that is her more
3:09
Speaker 1: recent hair coloring, But it does look like she's colored
3:13
Speaker 1: her hair. Is that right? Well? It it looks that way.
3:16
Speaker 1: We have not confirmed that clearly he has. I mean,
3:18
Speaker 1: you can look at h a minute, white A manute
3:23
Speaker 1: white a minute, gentleman, y'all both of you gone mad.
3:27
Speaker 1: Her hair is a different color. Her hair is red.
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Speaker 1: Her hair was not red when she left, it was blond. Okay,
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Speaker 1: so I don't know how much you know about women's
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Speaker 1: hair podus, but she's colored her hair there. I'm the
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Speaker 1: expert in hair color. I'd have blonde part with sixteen.
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Speaker 1: Now what else do we see in the picture? Still
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Speaker 1: appears to be wearing the same black leggings that we
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Speaker 1: saw in on the last day that we had a
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Speaker 1: photo of her. And also she's wearing a plaid shirt
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Speaker 1: which seems to be her style and oversized men's plaid shirt.
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Speaker 1: Whether that was once she took with her or or
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Speaker 1: Tad Cummins shirt, I don't Oh, but that's how she's dressed. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: it looks to be Maybe it's the same shirt, I
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Speaker 1: don't know, but it's clearly Amend's or an oversized shirt
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Speaker 1: that she's wearing, certainly the same style that she was
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Speaker 1: wearing when she left. Of note to this one of
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Speaker 1: her mind. Uh your listeners here that uh when Tad
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Speaker 1: Commins left, one of the first videos we got was
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Speaker 1: from our Walmart here in Columbia. Uh, that showed him
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Speaker 1: on the aisle purchasing hair dye. I don't know if
4:26
Speaker 1: you remember that or not. But and then there was
4:28
Speaker 1: this story that oh no, he's person there for his
4:30
Speaker 1: mother in law and this and that, Well, clearly maybe
4:33
Speaker 1: he did, but he was also person in for himself.
4:36
Speaker 1: And and obviously, remember Jason, I remember it. I was
4:42
Speaker 1: trying to restrain myself and not interrupt you when I
4:45
Speaker 1: was about to say, you know, everyone's kept saying the
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Speaker 1: hair or die was coincidental, and ten gentle to the
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Speaker 1: kidnapped be s all right, sure enough, this is what
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Speaker 1: he got. And I guarantee you somewhere you got red
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Speaker 1: hair dyed too. I'm and I wish you hadn't taken
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Speaker 1: so long to come out this video, but that that's
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Speaker 1: what we're letting. That's a the hand were dealt. I
5:11
Speaker 1: was focusing on her shirt. I do not think it's
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Speaker 1: the same shirt she had on when she left, although
5:17
Speaker 1: they were both plaid. This one looks really loose, and
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Speaker 1: it looks like it belongs to Tad Cummins. I think
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Speaker 1: she's wearing one of his shirts. I mean, I don't
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Speaker 1: know where else says shocked, but I doubt they're spending
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Speaker 1: money on clothes. Nancy. I'm looking at the two photos now,
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Speaker 1: the one from the surveillance when she left and the one,
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Speaker 1: and I'm sure you have those in front of you two.
5:37
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, you know, far be from
5:39
Speaker 1: me to disagree with Nancy Grace on this, but let
5:42
Speaker 1: me just say that as I look at it, here's
5:45
Speaker 1: my thought, just for what it's worth. I think she's
5:48
Speaker 1: in the same clothes that when she left, which means,
5:50
Speaker 1: if that's the case, that she hasn't changed or she
5:54
Speaker 1: changed back into her old clothes after leaving Monday morning,
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Speaker 1: going all day Tuesday, and this is at some time
6:00
Speaker 1: on Wednesday, so that would be very telling if she's
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Speaker 1: in the same clothes. I look at her hair. I
6:05
Speaker 1: have three daughters, and I know when their hair what
6:07
Speaker 1: their hair looks like when it's not washed. Her hair
6:10
Speaker 1: looks not washed, not kept, so you know, it looks
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Speaker 1: to me. My theory is at least in the one
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Speaker 1: picture I'm seeing here and and and her picture looks
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Speaker 1: a different depending on which picture you're looking at the
6:21
Speaker 1: two together versus walking in single file. The color of
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Speaker 1: the shirt looks different. But the bottom line is I
6:27
Speaker 1: feel like that that they're not in a place of
6:30
Speaker 1: comfort wherever they are. They're not staying in a house
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Speaker 1: or hotel, but that you know, I don't know that
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Speaker 1: this is my speculation, though, as I look at these
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Speaker 1: pictures and what her condition looks like to me, I
6:39
Speaker 1: gotta agree with you. I was thinking about the likelihood
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Speaker 1: that who would last be spotted in one plaid shirt
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Speaker 1: and then be in a different one, and that's a
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Speaker 1: low likelihood. I think it's just the color and the
6:51
Speaker 1: shading of the photos that I have. I think you
6:55
Speaker 1: may be right. I think she's wearing the same shirt,
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Speaker 1: she's got on the same black ways, and her hair
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Speaker 1: looks greasy and unwashed, which leads me to think they
7:05
Speaker 1: have not been in a hotel. That means that they
7:08
Speaker 1: are in the car. I wonder if this Walmart has
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Speaker 1: surveillance of their parking lot so we could figure out
7:16
Speaker 1: what car they got out of, I'm sure, And we're
7:19
Speaker 1: hoping that we get more information on that from law enforcement. UM,
7:22
Speaker 1: and we just haven't gotten that yet. But what we
7:24
Speaker 1: have received UH information on is the fact that they
7:27
Speaker 1: were buying food items all right now. I don't know
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Speaker 1: what kind of food items yet, UM, but we want
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Speaker 1: to find out because that's gonna tell us are they
7:35
Speaker 1: in the car? Are they camping? You know, if they're
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Speaker 1: buying canned goods, for example, when you're not opening a
7:40
Speaker 1: can of pork and beans inside a Nissan rogue, I
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Speaker 1: don't think and so, UM, you know, that's gonna tell
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Speaker 1: us something as well. Another question I I have, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: is what was the process whereby Walmart finally produced this video?
7:53
Speaker 1: How soon did Walmart know about uh the uh the
7:57
Speaker 1: tip and that belief that they've been seen. Did it
8:00
Speaker 1: take this along for Walmart to produce the video? Obviously
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Speaker 1: I don't know that. I don't want to cast any
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Speaker 1: stones yet towards Walmart, but my goodness, we've got to
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Speaker 1: get uh these images out sooner. This is March fifteen U.
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Speaker 1: From this point, you know, it's a day's drive from
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Speaker 1: Columbia to Oklahoma City, and then from Oklahoma City it's
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Speaker 1: to to the rest of the western United States. They
8:21
Speaker 1: could be anywhere. And I'll remind you, uh you, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: that early on and I think I had said this,
8:26
Speaker 1: and I've said this to the media before, but one
8:29
Speaker 1: of our our student witnesses that we've talked to UM
8:33
Speaker 1: talked to Elizabeth before she left, and Elizabeth had told
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Speaker 1: her that they're headed west, and she had told her
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Speaker 1: that and so this is consistent with what Elizabeth told
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Speaker 1: her friend. I didn't realize that, but all along I
8:45
Speaker 1: have wondered if Ted Cummins was not headed to where
8:49
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be odd to have a child bride and
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Speaker 1: where there are, as they say, multiple wives and that
8:56
Speaker 1: is commonplace. Because if you went somewhere, we're a polygamy
9:00
Speaker 1: is uh not really outlawed, even though it's against the
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Speaker 1: black and white letter of the law. He could blend
9:08
Speaker 1: in that way and he could marry under those, in
9:13
Speaker 1: my mind, illegal circumstances. Again, even with a wife back
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Speaker 1: home in Tennessee, which she's filing for divorce today, by
9:22
Speaker 1: the way, Jill Commins said, just so you know, Jill
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Speaker 1: Cummins either filed today already or is in the process
9:28
Speaker 1: of filing for divorce. You know, my heart really goes
9:32
Speaker 1: out to that woman. I feel so bad for her.
9:35
Speaker 1: Of course, I feel awful for Elizabeth because she's gonna
9:39
Speaker 1: look back on this if she manages to live through it,
9:43
Speaker 1: and it's going to be the worst thing that ever
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Speaker 1: happened to her. But the wife that trusted him and
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Speaker 1: gave all the years of her life to him, I mean,
9:52
Speaker 1: they've been again us this for Pete's sake. I was glad, Yeah, yeah, exactly.
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Speaker 1: So what does this mean that they're headed there in Oklahoma?
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Speaker 1: Where could they be headed? Look at the map, Allen, Well,
10:08
Speaker 1: I think you talk you were just talking about I've
10:11
Speaker 1: actually made that drive from that same area through Oklahoma City.
10:15
Speaker 1: Then you go into the North Texas Panhandle, you know,
10:18
Speaker 1: north of Lubbock. You can go on up into Colorado,
10:21
Speaker 1: or you could go down to New Mexico or on
10:24
Speaker 1: up to Utah. Made that ride. It's easy just to
10:26
Speaker 1: slip under the radar because it's not very populated. When
10:30
Speaker 1: you say she was headed west, what more do we
10:33
Speaker 1: know about that? Jason, I wish we knew more. The
10:36
Speaker 1: witness who told us that actually said that she had
10:40
Speaker 1: been told of a specific place at one point and
10:43
Speaker 1: sort of been waffled on that point and then said,
10:45
Speaker 1: well it was out west, and acted as though she
10:48
Speaker 1: didn't remember. To assume she didn't. But even but I,
10:51
Speaker 1: lets say it's troll oryer, I don't assume a whole lot,
10:55
Speaker 1: you know. So, Um, I think some of these kids
10:57
Speaker 1: are scared to talk, but I was hoping, pray that
10:59
Speaker 1: they'll beak up. As she said, anything about a specific place. Obviously,
11:03
Speaker 1: we're gonna be following back up with that witness and
11:05
Speaker 1: any others that we think might have information. But my goodness,
11:08
Speaker 1: that's what she didn't she she claimed. She claimed she
11:14
Speaker 1: did not remember she The same witness also said that
11:17
Speaker 1: that originally Elizabeth had a plan of a person who
11:20
Speaker 1: would help hide them, but that uh, that didn't work out,
11:25
Speaker 1: quote unquote, and that she had to go with another plan.
11:28
Speaker 1: And and so this was this was all known weeks
11:31
Speaker 1: before she left by one of her friends. What time
11:36
Speaker 1: of the day or not was this to be honest
11:38
Speaker 1: video taken? Do you know, Jason, Nancy, we don't we
11:43
Speaker 1: We I want to know that because think about this.
11:46
Speaker 1: Either way, if they know, we don't know what they
11:50
Speaker 1: did starting on the morning of March until the fift
11:54
Speaker 1: But we know it's a one day drawing. So either
11:56
Speaker 1: they either they took their their time getting to Oklahoma City,
12:01
Speaker 1: or they got to Oklahoma City and decided to stay
12:03
Speaker 1: there for some period of time. Uh So I want
12:05
Speaker 1: to know what time of the day it was. So
12:07
Speaker 1: if they're there mid day in Walmart, that tells me
12:09
Speaker 1: that they hung around Oklahoma City for a while. Well,
12:13
Speaker 1: I know this. They haven't been in a hotel because
12:16
Speaker 1: she hasn't lost her hair. Yeah, that's my thought too.
12:20
Speaker 1: I mean it looks really bad when you look at
12:21
Speaker 1: the close up. Yeah, but where was she when she
12:24
Speaker 1: colored it? Because she didn't waste any time to do that.
12:27
Speaker 1: She could have been in the bathroom at a McDonald's
12:29
Speaker 1: for all she could. Or maybe they stayed in the
12:32
Speaker 1: hotel that first night and she colored her hair, and
12:35
Speaker 1: you know, they maybe they stayed somewhere for that purpose
12:37
Speaker 1: of coloring her hair and his. They did have that
12:40
Speaker 1: head start, So there's that Nobody really realized they were
12:45
Speaker 1: missing that first night, right, Well, yes, the first night,
12:49
Speaker 1: they did. Absolutely on Monday night on the thirteenth, that
12:52
Speaker 1: was when it was reported to law enforcement. The Amber
12:55
Speaker 1: alert didn't go out until Tuesday four, and that was
12:58
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you there may be holes in the
13:00
Speaker 1: the Amber alert system because it took a while because
13:04
Speaker 1: they had to get charges together and all of that,
13:05
Speaker 1: and they weren't even sure if they were together, and
13:07
Speaker 1: and the way Tennessee kidnapping laws is written, there's some
13:10
Speaker 1: real holes in the statute. And so we we had
13:13
Speaker 1: all kinds of issues right then, and it took about
13:16
Speaker 1: twenty four hours to get that amber alert out. Well,
13:18
Speaker 1: maybe maybe she could have gone someplace in the first
13:21
Speaker 1: eight hours, because it was eight hours you know before.
13:24
Speaker 1: Maybe that was one of the first things they did
13:26
Speaker 1: was go to the go to the sink and do
13:28
Speaker 1: the coloring. I'm just thinking about the scenario about what
13:34
Speaker 1: wherever is the color or hair. I really don't give
13:37
Speaker 1: a flying pig. What I'm trying to figure out is
13:40
Speaker 1: which way they're headed and are in the mode of travel.
13:45
Speaker 1: For instance, is their security camera? Is the surbillance in
13:49
Speaker 1: the parking lot? Uh? Did they leave together? Are they
13:52
Speaker 1: walking in and out of places separately so they won't
13:56
Speaker 1: be spotted and then meeting up, say on Aisle number ten? Um?
14:01
Speaker 1: Are they used in cash to see have a credit
14:03
Speaker 1: card under a different name? Um? Questions like that that
14:08
Speaker 1: might help me figure out what they're doing. The reason
14:10
Speaker 1: I asked was it day or night? Are they traveling
14:14
Speaker 1: at night and coming out at night and staying hidden
14:18
Speaker 1: during the day. I'm just trying to figure out. Listen,
14:21
Speaker 1: the only way you can catch him is to try
14:23
Speaker 1: to think like him, and I'm just trying to fare
14:27
Speaker 1: through the information. We've got to to make it usable.
14:30
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Well, you know I'm looking
14:32
Speaker 1: at the mouth right now. So Allen was right from
14:35
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City. What's interesting about the interstate system, there's not
14:39
Speaker 1: at least if if you want to go northwest to
14:41
Speaker 1: Colorado are Utah, there's no interstate to take you there.
14:44
Speaker 1: You go do west Amarillo, which is above blah blah,
14:47
Speaker 1: then you you continue on iford you going do west
14:50
Speaker 1: to Albuquerque, then you continue going do west into Arizona.
14:54
Speaker 1: There's not really many options. In fact that Albuquerque you
14:57
Speaker 1: could just go, uh, you'd have to turn east on
15:00
Speaker 1: the interstate that goes to Denver and it kind of
15:02
Speaker 1: winds its way up to Denver. So my point is this,
15:06
Speaker 1: I think their their ultimate destination is somewhere along that
15:10
Speaker 1: corner that I forty quarter. Of course it ends in
15:13
Speaker 1: uh south or right at Las Vegas South, maybe south
15:16
Speaker 1: of Las Vegas in that area. Let me ask you
15:19
Speaker 1: another question. In that vein and Alan where which walmart
15:25
Speaker 1: was this in Oklahoma? What city was it, what suburb
15:28
Speaker 1: was it? What do we know? Nancy? This was a
15:31
Speaker 1: Walmart on East I two forty service road in Oklahoma City.
15:36
Speaker 1: And by the way, it was in the afternoon of March. Yeah,
15:40
Speaker 1: we can interpret that a couple of different ways. They're
15:43
Speaker 1: not afraid to come out in the daytime hours, even
15:46
Speaker 1: wearing the same clothes they were wearing when she left.
15:49
Speaker 1: They are traveling along an interstate, and I imagine if
15:54
Speaker 1: this was one of those interstate access rose that it
15:56
Speaker 1: was visible from the interstate. Now on that interstate, where
16:01
Speaker 1: do you go on that interstate? What if it leads
16:04
Speaker 1: to we know that's where they were. I mean, did
16:06
Speaker 1: you go to Oklahoma City intentionally? Or if you're passing
16:09
Speaker 1: through going west. There's other ways if they were headed to,
16:13
Speaker 1: for example, the Denver area, anywhere anywhere UM like that,
16:19
Speaker 1: you wouldn't go through Oklahoma City. It's just it is
16:22
Speaker 1: on the way going west through ultimately in New Mexico, Arizona,
16:26
Speaker 1: southern California. That's where it goes. It's a it's a
16:29
Speaker 1: it's an east west interstate system, and there's you really
16:32
Speaker 1: have to go out of your way and saying you
16:33
Speaker 1: start going to due north um UH or due south
16:37
Speaker 1: uh to UH to deviate from that path. And so
16:41
Speaker 1: it wouldn't have made sense if he was going to Dallas,
16:43
Speaker 1: for example, they would have gotten off of I Ford.
16:46
Speaker 1: He gotten on I thirty to go to Dallas. And
16:48
Speaker 1: I want to make another point on what you just said, Nancy.
16:51
Speaker 1: You know they're here. They are Amber Lerts issue. He
16:54
Speaker 1: has to know it. This is a smart guy. He
16:57
Speaker 1: knows that the Amber alerts out there, he's being raison.
17:00
Speaker 1: He's out there, open and obvious. And he kept his gotee.
17:03
Speaker 1: Which which thing about that? In the first thing you
17:06
Speaker 1: do is you shave your goateee, if that's every picture
17:08
Speaker 1: of you. But he didn't. He colored it. Is it
17:11
Speaker 1: because he thought it made him look younger? I mean,
17:12
Speaker 1: what is it? Why would he Why would he keep
17:15
Speaker 1: the goatee? Um, It's just interesting to me that he
17:18
Speaker 1: chose to go to the trouble of coloring it as
17:20
Speaker 1: opposed to shaving it. And maybe maybe he thought somehow
17:23
Speaker 1: that was that we would have expected him to shave it.
17:26
Speaker 1: I don't know, but it's just another piece of this puzzle. Well,
17:29
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you something, Jackson. When I saw I
17:31
Speaker 1: still had the gotee, I thought, what that would be
17:34
Speaker 1: the first thing I would do is cut my hair,
17:36
Speaker 1: get a different hairstyle, and get rid of the goatee.
17:39
Speaker 1: I mean, she hasn't even changed her clothes, which also
17:43
Speaker 1: tells me she didn't bring along a lot of clothes
17:46
Speaker 1: from home. I mean, there are a lot of different
17:49
Speaker 1: assumptions that we can make based on what we're seeing
17:53
Speaker 1: in this one photo. That's what I'm saying. The Walmart
17:58
Speaker 1: is on the door that goes south. It's a bypass
18:01
Speaker 1: south of Oklahoma City, and I actually drove this last year,
18:05
Speaker 1: and it will connect you with forty. You continue forty,
18:09
Speaker 1: as you said, towards Amarillo, but if you veer off
18:12
Speaker 1: at Elk City. This is exactly what I did, because
18:15
Speaker 1: I drove from there up to Colorado, and it is
18:18
Speaker 1: a perfectly fine road eighty mile an hour speed limit
18:21
Speaker 1: all the way pretty much all the way up there,
18:24
Speaker 1: and it wouldn't be very difficult for them to do.
18:27
Speaker 1: You don't have to stay on the interstate. So I'm
18:29
Speaker 1: saying maybe they went up towards Colorado and you can
18:31
Speaker 1: get lost in those mountains. Another saying that Jason and
18:34
Speaker 1: I were talking about, and I want to hear your
18:36
Speaker 1: thoughts on this Allan, it's what they bought. That was
18:38
Speaker 1: my first question. What did they buy? For instance, if
18:41
Speaker 1: they're buying micro various food. Yeah, but I mean what
18:45
Speaker 1: specifically say they're by They bought microwave popcorn. Okay, Well,
18:50
Speaker 1: that gives me a lot of information. They're either in
18:52
Speaker 1: a hotel, or they have access to a microwave, or
18:55
Speaker 1: they're staying with someone that's hiding them that has the microwaves.
18:59
Speaker 1: I mean, you can aren't a lot from every single fact.
19:03
Speaker 1: The fact that they're there during the daytime brazenly, the
19:06
Speaker 1: fact that he's held on to his goateee, the fact
19:09
Speaker 1: that he bought her hair die, the fact that she's
19:11
Speaker 1: wearing the very same clothes as if she doesn't have
19:14
Speaker 1: anything to change into. I mean, it all equals an answer.
19:20
Speaker 1: We just don't. We just don't have all the pieces
19:22
Speaker 1: of the puzzles of the puzzle. What else do you see, Jason,
19:26
Speaker 1: What can you decipher from it? Well, I'm looking here,
19:30
Speaker 1: just a side note here, this Walmarts not far from
19:33
Speaker 1: the will Rogers World Airport. Just the thought. Um also,
19:38
Speaker 1: as I'm looking at this, if I'm coming forty from
19:42
Speaker 1: uh Little Rock area, which is where forty takes off
19:45
Speaker 1: of Interstate thirty. Um so, and I used to travel
19:48
Speaker 1: that a lot going to Dallas, where my family is from.
19:52
Speaker 1: Um it, you know, you've got it splits. It goes
19:56
Speaker 1: to forty and Alan you said there at the one
19:58
Speaker 1: off of two forty right, yes, on the service road.
20:02
Speaker 1: I too, just south of Oklahoma City in some more
20:05
Speaker 1: ways down you take the split instead of going to
20:08
Speaker 1: downtown Oklahoma City, which which if you're gonna bypass, that
20:11
Speaker 1: makes sense. It's probably a little faster. But it's a
20:14
Speaker 1: good ways down that bypass. Uh, you know, So it's
20:17
Speaker 1: a little bit you have to be a little bit intentional. Um,
20:21
Speaker 1: you know, but maybe they're just going around Oklahoma City
20:24
Speaker 1: and they stopped there. I tend to think they were
20:26
Speaker 1: in the area already, they were staying in the area.
20:30
Speaker 1: And uh because again, while were they there on the
20:32
Speaker 1: fift especially now you're saying the afternoon of Um, you know,
20:37
Speaker 1: it's it. In terms of other observations, while Nancy, I
20:40
Speaker 1: I just want to hear what they were driving. I
20:42
Speaker 1: want to know if that Nissan rogue still exists, did
20:44
Speaker 1: they get rid of it, they get something else, you know?
20:48
Speaker 1: And uh so I just don't know. I mean, I'm
20:50
Speaker 1: just my mind spinning with seeing these images for the
20:53
Speaker 1: first time. Well, another thing I'm looking at is their
20:56
Speaker 1: body language, and I know that's not anything that would
20:58
Speaker 1: hold up in a quordable law, but I'm still looking.
21:01
Speaker 1: Do you notice the way she seems to be kind
21:03
Speaker 1: of following him around timidly? Yes, if you look in
21:08
Speaker 1: the images and still images they've released in both of them,
21:12
Speaker 1: uh one, and she's right beside him, but she's looking
21:14
Speaker 1: at him, and she's looking in his eyes as if
21:16
Speaker 1: as as if he's saying something and she's listening and
21:19
Speaker 1: looking at him. The other one, she's walking behind him
21:22
Speaker 1: in almost a subservient way. I mean, this is how
21:24
Speaker 1: it looks, and and so you know, that's consistent with
21:27
Speaker 1: a man who we believe was able to program her,
21:29
Speaker 1: had control over her. I get so angry when I
21:32
Speaker 1: hear these people that even suggest that this is wilful
21:34
Speaker 1: in the sense of two adults. Absolutely ridiculous, shameful that
21:38
Speaker 1: that would even be considered. She is under his control
21:41
Speaker 1: and has been under his control for some time. Remember,
21:43
Speaker 1: this is a girl who would go to lunch with
21:45
Speaker 1: him when she would tell her siblings, I don't want
21:48
Speaker 1: to go with him, but he would. He would make
21:51
Speaker 1: ridiculous threats to her about school, and she would go anyway,
21:55
Speaker 1: you know, and she would end up forcing herself to
21:57
Speaker 1: go because he had that kind of control over her.
21:59
Speaker 1: So here she is allowing him around Walmart. This is
22:01
Speaker 1: a girl that that could have At any moment, she
22:04
Speaker 1: could have taken off and run to someone and gotten
22:07
Speaker 1: help or whatever. But he obviously has control over her.
22:10
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys remember the case of
22:13
Speaker 1: the Grownie children h shafta grownie and her brother. They
22:18
Speaker 1: were abducted and it all came to light when they
22:21
Speaker 1: were caught in a seven eleven. The little boy was killed,
22:23
Speaker 1: her brother I think it was Dylan Grownie. And um,
22:29
Speaker 1: there's video of her following her kidnapper and her rapist,
22:33
Speaker 1: an adult male following around this convenience store as if
22:38
Speaker 1: in it looked like it was his daughter and he
22:41
Speaker 1: had been raping her little brother and her. He killed
22:46
Speaker 1: the little brother. All this had happened, and she's walking
22:48
Speaker 1: along behind him and never says a word. I mean,
22:52
Speaker 1: you cannot expect children to voice their fears that way,
22:58
Speaker 1: especially when they're afraid of their after And I gotta
23:01
Speaker 1: tell you, I got so upset this week when I
23:04
Speaker 1: saw a comment someone had written under a story about
23:08
Speaker 1: Elizabeth that she wanted to go. Why are we worried
23:11
Speaker 1: about her? Why are we looking for her? Because she
23:14
Speaker 1: is a child. She has no mother to take care
23:17
Speaker 1: of her. She's alone in this world and she's with
23:21
Speaker 1: this guy, and my heart is just breaking. She will
23:25
Speaker 1: never be the same after this. There's no way she
23:29
Speaker 1: may be in therapy if she lives through it, if
23:31
Speaker 1: it doesn't end in some crazy murder suicide pact, but
23:38
Speaker 1: she'll never be the same about how much therapy she
23:40
Speaker 1: goes to. This is going to damage her for life
23:45
Speaker 1: if she lives through at Jason, Yeah, I agree. Uh,
23:52
Speaker 1: let's listen, we get her back today. Um, this child
23:55
Speaker 1: is gonna have to have intensive therapy. She's gonna have
23:58
Speaker 1: to think about she to go back to that school. Obviously,
24:01
Speaker 1: she's gonna have to be Every aspect of her life
24:04
Speaker 1: is going to be rethought and reworked. I mean, how
24:06
Speaker 1: do you even reintegrate into the home and feel safe
24:09
Speaker 1: and and and know that everything's okay. I mean, it's
24:11
Speaker 1: just this is something that's gonna be very difficult. I've
24:14
Speaker 1: already talked to one of our best mental mental health
24:17
Speaker 1: professionals in town that, uh, we hope is going to
24:20
Speaker 1: come in and help us immediately when that day comes,
24:23
Speaker 1: because we're gonna need that kind of help. Listen, it's
24:26
Speaker 1: the way chelm Wa Station victims steel and I know
24:29
Speaker 1: I've dealt with so many of them. They feel a powerless,
24:34
Speaker 1: helpless that nobody was there to stop what happened, and
24:38
Speaker 1: a lot of them live with an anger for the
24:40
Speaker 1: rest of their lives. It affects all of her future
24:43
Speaker 1: relationships that she has any with men and other people.
24:47
Speaker 1: I mean, I just pray you get side of this
24:48
Speaker 1: the line. That's my first prayer, and then I'll take
24:50
Speaker 1: you from there. Absolutely. I mean, we have to take
24:53
Speaker 1: it one day at a time, and that's you know,
24:55
Speaker 1: every everything, uh that we hope and pray for right now,
25:00
Speaker 1: sister's safe returnament. Yesterday when there was the the deciding
25:04
Speaker 1: allegedly in Memphis, Um, you know, the family was absolutely
25:09
Speaker 1: electric over this and then to be told it wasn't
25:12
Speaker 1: them was a letdown of monumental proportions. They just could
25:17
Speaker 1: I talked to Anthony today. He was in tears when
25:21
Speaker 1: I talked to him about his daughter and the fact
25:23
Speaker 1: that he saw her for the first time. I mean
25:25
Speaker 1: just weeping as I talked to him, and uh, you know,
25:28
Speaker 1: we don't have a place as as parents for those emotions.
25:33
Speaker 1: We we shouldn't have to deal with those emotions of
25:35
Speaker 1: having your child taken. Um So, I can't say, even
25:38
Speaker 1: as a father of five, uh, how I would feel.
25:41
Speaker 1: I know how I think I would feel. I mean,
25:43
Speaker 1: I'd have an armed policy together, searching every nook and
25:46
Speaker 1: craney in the country for this man. Uh you know.
25:49
Speaker 1: But and I'd probably have to be on all kinds
25:51
Speaker 1: of of uh uh anti anxiety medication just to function,
25:57
Speaker 1: you know. Um So, it's just a just a very
26:01
Speaker 1: difficult thing day by day. Today is particularly hard seeing
26:04
Speaker 1: finally a picture that she she was with him, and
26:08
Speaker 1: that truly they're not in the area, they're headed somewhere
26:12
Speaker 1: and uh and and they're gonna be hard to find.
26:16
Speaker 1: The very first thing that struck me is, thank god
26:18
Speaker 1: she's alive, followed by she died her here in red,
26:21
Speaker 1: followed by the way that she looks kind of timid
26:24
Speaker 1: and scared in the photo. Yeah, and the way that
26:29
Speaker 1: Tad Cummins look like he's in a foul mood. If
26:31
Speaker 1: you look at him, he certainly doesn't look like he's
26:34
Speaker 1: enjoying himself. So is it just because he's nervous. I mean,
26:38
Speaker 1: you know, every picture that we've seen so far of
26:40
Speaker 1: Tad Commins, he seems to have a smile on his face,
26:42
Speaker 1: or he's singing about another young girl's deep blue eyes
26:46
Speaker 1: or whatever. You know, Um, you know that that doesn't
26:50
Speaker 1: look like the happy, go lucky Tad Cummins that everybody
26:53
Speaker 1: seems to uh think about when they think about the
26:56
Speaker 1: way he used to be with me is special guest
26:59
Speaker 1: Jason Watley, who was representing Elizabeth Thomas's family. Thank you
27:04
Speaker 1: to crime Con for sponsoring our podcast Today, Gotta crime
27:08
Speaker 1: con dot com and find out the latest on the
27:11
Speaker 1: biggest gathering of crime fighters in crime Sluice ever June nine,
27:15
Speaker 1: Jun eleven in Indianapolis. Use code Nancy off Jason, thank you,
27:22
Speaker 1: our prayers and our search goes on. Nancy Grace Crime
27:26
Speaker 1: Stories signing off, goodbye friend.