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What we’re hearing: Craig Counsell says it’s “go time” for Cubs · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside Territory Foul Territory Network's Cubs podcast. I'm
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Sahadev Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We are your
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Cubs beat writers over at The Athletic. And Patrick, you
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: are out west with the Cubs who started off this trip.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: They weren't playing terribly, but they lost two pretty rough
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: games in the sense like those are the types of
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: games that they drop on walk-offs that send some part
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: of the fan base spiraling and wondering... what's wrong. Uh,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: what's wrong with Jacob Webb. What's wrong with, uh, I
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: think did Zephyr Johns give up a single to Leo
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Rivas in one of those, uh, X-Rating games, uh, the
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: X-Rating game on Friday, uh, questions about the bullpen questions about,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: are they going to blow it in the wild card? Uh,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: and they've responded with two, two emphatic victories. Uh, I
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: thought there's, we're going to talk a lot about pitching
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: in this episode. Uh, And I feel like, I know
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: he hasn't been perfect since he's come here, but Kevin
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Gossman is starting to show signs of like, this is
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: the guy that you want down the stretch. This is
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: the guy that, I'm not sure if he's going to
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: start game one of a playoff series, but you'd have
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: confidence in him starting game one of a playoff series.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: At least that's what I feel. The games that he
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: has had like some rougher outings, I don't think they
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: were disastrous. And I also don't think I think they
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: were very specific things. It's like, okay, they were hitting
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: this pitch or whatever it was that was going on
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: that he felt confident that he'd be able to fix
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: whatever was going on and quickly bounce back, which I
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: feel like he's done.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: I think you even see that within games, that he
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: has an ability to kind of read swings, attack hitters,
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: have a game plan with catcher. Carson Kelly and the
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: rest of the pitching staff and you know teammates have
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: a ton of respect for this guy Michael Conforto was
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: talking about how last year he was inactive with the
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Dodgers during the playoffs but was watching how the Dodgers
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: would prepare for for Gossman and he you know quote
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: diced him up and you're talking about a you know
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: a kind of epic lineup with some future hall of
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: famers in there the biggest stage in the game and
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: he posted, uh, two quality starts. I think that goes
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: a long way, uh, in a clubhouse. I think just
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: the way they talk about him, um, just kind of
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: this breezy way he carries himself to, uh, you know,
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: he's got kind of the, it's got a distinctive look.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: He has a unique, unique pitch mix. He went through
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: a lot to get to this point in his career.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: So I'm with you.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: Like if he's, not starting game one. He's probably starting
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: game two. I mean, we still have a month to go,
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: but I mean, credit to the front office. They went
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: out and got some guys that you can trust in
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: those big spots.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Got a little distracted there when you said, uh, multiple, uh,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: hall of famers, you're right. And I'm starting to wonder
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: how many hall of famers did the Dodgers have is
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Max Muncy on the borderline. Uh, completely like went off
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: track there, but, uh, Yeah. It's a, I mean, that's
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: why they got him. Right. You know, they, they like,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: what did, what did Jed say about him? He was
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: like the, the white whale, the white whale.
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: He called him with, Oh, the white whale. And, and,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: you know, like he, someone that had a ton of
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: promise and, and, and finally lived up to it later
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: in his career and is still searching for that world
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: series ring. I think it, you know, what, what they've done,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: what they did at the deadline, it just keeps being
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: reinforced of how important it was. And I feel like
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: every other outing, someone else goes out there and you're like,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: this is why they needed more depth. This is why
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: this is, uh, this happened. And, and it's, uh, it
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: Gossman is a big part of that. Um, Conforto had
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: a really nice night last night too. Uh, I felt
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: like he's kind of been up and down since, like,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: he was awful at the start, the very start, and
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: then was just insanely good for, what was it, two months,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: a month and a half, and then pinch hitting seemed
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: to be his best skill set, and he's kind of
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: had some solid games now starting. You need that depth.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: You're going to need that veteran presence. Council seemed to
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: have some really nice things. That was in your piece, right?
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Council seemed to be, like, glowing with the way he
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: talks about Conforto.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it will make it into a piece
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: of mine here soon. But the idea was obviously they're
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: feeling pretty good. That was a really complete win against
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: a good team that's fighting for a playoff spot on
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: the road in a place where weird stuff seems to happen.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: And that game was very orderly from a Cubs perspective
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: there at Chase Field.
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: But I think you have a couple of things going
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: on there.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: You have what council says is the example that Conforto
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: has set of someone who came in on a minor
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: league deal, which converted into a $ 2 million major league deal.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: This is someone who has a lot of stature in
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: the game and for him to willingly accept.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: His role and.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: Kind of go about his business in a very professional
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: manner is in council's eyes really just added a lot
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: to the room. Um, and I, in talking to Conforto
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: and Gossman, um, they did, you know, kind of small
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: group things, uh, within a short timeframe, Monday night, uh,
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: you know, Conforto just raved about this team's culture, the discipline,
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: their commitment, how they've stuck to things since they were
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: back in Mesa, uh, in March and February and that
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: he thinks this is a team that can win a
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: world series this year. Obviously he was around the Dodgers
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: last year. I did not really play in October, but
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: he saw kind of what it takes. He went to
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: the world series with the Mets as a young player. Um,
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: and he just said, the big thing is like, they
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: have a honest, total belief that they can win the
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: whole thing.
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: And he said, that's not a common feeling, uh, around
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: the league. Um, Gossman said something similar.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: I think his quote was like, the sky's the limit.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: And I think he looked at it through the lens
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: of the Cubs are well-rounded.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: They don't make a ton of mistakes. They don't beat themselves.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: And that's kind of a huge part of the battle
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: to keep advancing and winning those close games with, you know,
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: very little margin for error. So, you know, we'll see,
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: as you know, like weird stuff usually happens on these
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: kind of, you know, long West coast trips. So like
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: that just captured a very much a moment in time. And,
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: you know, but, but I do think those feelings are
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: valid and you can kind of see how this thing
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: is pieced together and how it can work. I know
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: those walk-off losses in Seattle were probably tough for Cubs
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: fans to watch, but, They just won two walk-off games
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: against the White Sox, and those are kind of coin flips.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: I think Council even alluded to that of like you
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: play four walk-off games, you should probably win two and
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: lose two, and that stuff's sort of kind of balanced out.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: But when Gosman's pitching like that, when the offense one
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: through nine is relentless, you can see how it can work.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: over multiple playoff rounds and they may have to win
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: four if they want to win a world.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: Series yeah that's that seems to be the case i
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: i do have some if they're not going to go
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: far or win a world series i think the the
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: answer would be pitching right it was last last fall
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: and and i think it that's what would look at
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: going forward uh let's let's talk a little bit about
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: How council's handling some different pitchers, Shota Ibanaga in particular.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break first.
• 8:51
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• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Patrick, uh, I believe it was like 72, 76 pitches, uh,
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: two plus innings for Shota Imanaga. Uh, couldn't get an
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: out in the third and, and council had seen enough, um,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: was aggressive. He has the type of bullpen where he
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: can be kind of aggressive, has some, has a long
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: man in the long man in there and Sabali, uh,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Colin Ray's in there as well. So he has options
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: to do this. He can be a little aggressive, uh,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: It felt like a moment at the time. I wasn't there,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: so I wasn't 100% sure if I was missing something injury-wise,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: but clearly it wasn't. It was council. What was the word?
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: What was the phrasing he used? Go time the other
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: day when talking about– I can't remember. Oh, he was
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: talking about Edward Cabrera. But this is obviously a different situation,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: but he's being aggressive. He's trying to win games. He
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: knows every win matters right now.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Look, we still remember August 2015, Joe Maddon taking Jason
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Hamill out of what I believe became a four-game sweep
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: over the defending World Series champs at that time. That
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: was a moment at Wrigley Field. I don't know if
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: this moment quite rises to that level, but it gave
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: me a little bit of a flashback there of like, okay,
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: this is a manager saying like, I'm not messing around here.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: I want to win this game.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: And Council acknowledged as soon as Ian Happ hit that
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: home run, they took.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: A 5-2 lead.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: He kind of felt like it was time to go,
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: that he wasn't going to just sort of wait around
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: to see if Schroeder figured out. Obviously, he was not
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: economical enough to go the distance. I think it was
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: 72 pitches to get six outs. Council said, the VLO
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: was down a little bit and believe it was three
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: first pitch strikes to 14 batters.
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: Just didn't have it.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's fair to like write off show
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: to now he's been really good over almost three full seasons.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: He's been durable. He's been resilient.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: He's been crafty, creative. Um, he had a good playoff
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: outing against the Padres last year. Um, But on Sunday afternoon,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: he just didn't have it. And so this is why
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: you have length in your bullpen so that you can
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: do that, that you won't kind of crush the bullpen.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: There won't be that carryover effect for several days.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: Credit to Savali for being ready and putting together for scoreless.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: But this time of year and after the way Shota's
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: season ended last year, it's hard to just always dismiss
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: it as just a bad day, and maybe that's what
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: it was. I mean, counsel said Shota will get the
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: opportunity to prove that next time out, that he is
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: still that guy. But for whatever reason, it just seems
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: like Shota's off nights really stand out more than others,
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: even though he's been the club's most consistent starter this
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: year by far.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, when I, when I talk about the
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: pitching being what I question, it's less about like, I
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: think they have a lot of good pitchers. I think
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: they have interesting depth. They have plenty of options right now. Um,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: what I wonder is, do they have that guy that
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: can carry the load in the post season? Now that
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: they have a unique setup where they may be able
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: to get through, through it without that. But I think, um,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: I think the counterpoint to the point I'm making, like
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: they don't have like this no doubt guy that I'm
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: a hundred percent sure will, or, you know, as sure
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: as you can be about these things, that's going to
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: go out there and pitch like an ace. They do
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: have multiple options that could pitch like an ace. And
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Shota is in that group. It's Shota, it's Gossman, it's Holmes.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Matthew Boyd can pitch like that. Who's the fifth? Why
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: do I always struggle to get to, to get to
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: five with these guys? There's someone that I'm missing in
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: the group right now.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: David, David Peterson.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: And he's been great. Like you got to give him
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: a ton of props for how he's been. But like
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: you look at those four guys, Edward Cabrera is not
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: going to be starting. Ben Brown, we'll get to him later.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: He's not going to, it doesn't look like he'll be starting,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: but the, those four guys, I think we've seen all
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: extremes with them. Even the guys that they just got,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: like we've seen the extremes with them, but we know
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: that they can pitch at the top and be like
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: dominant in Can they carry them through a series? Just
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: one of them, like, really step up and then counsel
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: pieces it through. I think you need one of those
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: guys to step up. I think, I mean, this may
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: be an obvious thing to say, but I think in
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: an ideal world, you need Shota to really stabilize things
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: and get back to where he was early on in
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: the season. You'd like to see the below take up.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Maybe it is like he does. He does seem to
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: do better with extra days rest. So give him an
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: extra day or two. Council's always looking for that with
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: his pitchers. He's done that. Like he's not like normal
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: rest is not four days rest with council. It just like,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: go look at what he's done throughout his time. Even
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: with Milwaukee, he prefers to give his guys extra rest.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: And I think showed a specially benefits from that. It
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: would be, it feels like he could be a big
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: part of the postseason or like it, like he feels
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: like one of the extremes where he could be a
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: really big part of it or just like, okay, we
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: can't use them in big moments. Uh, if we're down
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: six to one and we don't want to waste pitchers,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: like put Shota in Managa and may, may end up
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: being the thing, or it's like, he's their best pitcher.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Like I could see either scenario, uh, for him and
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: I got.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, he showed up, did not sound, you know,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: particularly alarmed. Um, You know, I think he has a
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: very impressive resume overall. I just think you don't really
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: think of him as a guy like– and maybe it's because,
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: you know, like Clay Holmes was an all-star closer before
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: and Ben Brown has shifted in between roles. I don't
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: think you really think of like, okay, well, maybe just
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: throw Shota in there in like the fifth inning. Like
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: he gives up the home runs.
• 16:37
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: You know, if he's off.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: You just don't feel the same sort of like– fluidity
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: uh with him but um i guess crazier things have
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: happened i'm with you though i think you need like
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: if they're gonna have to win four playoff rounds to
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: win a world series like you're going to need that
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: fourth ish starter and maybe david peterson is ahead of
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: him now but i think you see how he's been
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: used both here and in the past and how they
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: sort of talked about the way their pitching staff could evolve.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: Like he seems like a guy who's a little more
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: flexible in that regard, just that, you know, he's done
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: it before and has had success.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: And I think you could probably see him that.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: And I think how they put this puzzle together is
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: going to be, you know, fascinating for us. And I
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: think they sort of enjoy that challenge. Obviously you'd rather
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: have a number one, no doubt starter, but when you don't,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: you make it work with, I mean, you said it,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: like five credible guys to start a playoff series. And
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Peterson did it as recently, I think it's 2024, made
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: an all-star team last year. And I think in the
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: current rotation, I think each member has been an all-star
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: at some point. It doesn't feel like they're rolling out
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: like all-stars every single night, but they're just a very
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: reasonable baseline team. that I think will protect them from
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: any sort of late-season collapse.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: It does feel like I'm evaluating these guys start to start. Like,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: what are you doing start to start? Matthew Boyd's now
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: put together two poor-ish starts, I guess you'd say. One
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: really bad one, and the one in Seattle wasn't great.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: So it's like, okay, keep an eye on him. What's
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: up with that fastball? It seems like it doesn't have
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: the same you know, juice as it did earlier in
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: the season. We're, but like off that, like showed it
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: was really good against the white socks, a really good offense.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: He pitched really well, struck out 10 guys. I mean,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: I know that's an offense that strikes out a lot,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: but is it, it's a high powered offense that can
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: score a lot too. And he did a solid job
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: keeping his team in that game. So, but it is,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: it feels very much like we're evaluating things. start to
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: start day to day and and i think that's probably
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: how they're looking at it as they head into the
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: playoffs like who who's our best guy right now who
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: can we ride and and uh who do we trust
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: and and it's going to it's going to be like
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: that and i i respect the move of pulling him
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: early like you had you you need to end that
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: you know losing streak nip it in the bud and
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: make sure you don't let the phillies get confidence that
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: they can come and catch you and and you know
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: really solidify your spot in the playoffs. All right, let's
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: take a quick break. Talk about a little bit more
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: on pitching and some pitching health updates that you got
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: out in Arizona.
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: It's time to remind everyone why baseball is glorious, especially
• 19:45
  Speaker 5: nowadays where you could think your team is out of it,
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: but they might be back in it again. Let me
• 19:50
  Speaker 5: introduce you to the American League wildcard KP and let's
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: tell everyone why they might need to head back to SeatGeek,
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: grab some more tickets for what is a playoff race
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: before the playoffs actually begin.
• 20:03
  Speaker 6: Speaking about being out of it, I'm an American League
• 20:06
  Speaker 6: East guy, and I'm talking to you Toronto fans. I'm
• 20:08
  Speaker 6: talking to you Baltimore fans. A couple weeks ago, probably
• 20:12
  Speaker 6: not a reason to come out to the games. Look
• 20:13
  Speaker 6: at the standings right now. Both of you teams are
• 20:15
  Speaker 6: right back in this wildcard race.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Rangers fans, we can go on and on.
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: Mariners fans, you might be feeling a little queasy, but
• 20:22
  Speaker 5: you're still in this thing too. So all of you
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: should head to SeatGeek and get yourself 10% off your
• 20:29
  Speaker 5: next set of MLB tickets. 10% off MLB tickets with
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: the promo code territory 10. Make sure you click the
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: link in the description to download the app and have
• 20:37
  Speaker 5: the code automatically added to your account so that you
• 20:40
  Speaker 5: can use it later.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Patrick, uh, you were out, you're out there in Arizona.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: You talked to, um, I believe all of these guys,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: a lot of these guys that are rehabbing were around
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: the team, but I know you talked to Justin steel
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: and got the latest on steel. Um, What is it?
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: It seems like there's a tiny bit more optimism that
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: he may get pitched again this year, but also when
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: I say pitch again, pitch in the big leagues this year,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: I'm sure he's very optimistic. Others may have different opinions.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: What are you gathering from everything, from everyone you talk to?
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd agree. I think there is more progress. It's
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: more realistic. I mean, Steele..
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Quote, absolutely expects to pitch this year, and that's the
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: way he should look at it. That was Craig Council's
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: point when we spoke with him after meeting with Steele,
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: and there is kind of a schedule in place now
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: where that could happen. I believe it's live batting practices Tuesday, Friday,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: and then at that point, you could start to think
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: about a minor league rehab assignment. Steele's says he feels great.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: He's obviously, he said he's pushing the envelope a little bit.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: That was his quote to get back as soon as possible.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: In talking to Craig Council, you know, I was kind
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: of making the point that, well, he still has to
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: prove that he's better than, you know, a group of
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: pitchers that already is dealing with a roster crunch, you know,
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: with Javier Assad getting sent out. There are other players
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: coming back. off the injury list here soon. Also, just
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: the idea of being a functional member of a bullpen, like,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: can you recover? Can you be available? And in a
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: very classic Council way, he was just like, look, he
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: needs to pitch in a game first.
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: And Council's right.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Like, he, you know, Steele hasn't pitched in an affiliated
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: game for almost two full seasons now. I mean, we're
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: talking about almost two prime years of his career, just like,
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: wiped out here. And so, you know, you can go
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: back and forth on this one.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: I think.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: It's probably more like the longer the Cubs play, the
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: better chance you might see Steele. Like, you know, being
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: in Chase Field made me think of Kyle Schwarber's injury
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: in 2016 there, and it was just like, you know, season-ending, devastating,
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: maybe career-ending altering, and it became a career-defining legacy-making moment
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: for Kyle Schwarber. There's been a lot going on with
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: Steele's rehab. There was the flexor strain setback. Obviously, the
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: player always wants to push it and get back as
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: soon as they can. The Cubs, like all teams, have
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: a protocol for re-entering Major League competition, and counsel insists
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: they're not going to skip any steps. But at the
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: same time, my counsel acknowledges that this has been a
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: really extended period of good feedback for Steele. And so
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: you can't take that away from him. You can't rule
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: out the possibility that he could come back. He wants
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: to impact this team in a big way. But it's
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: important to just kind of set expectations here. And, you know,
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: I think this, it's not just steel. There'll be several
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: of these stories kind of in mid, mid to late September. We'll,
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: we'll be, we'll just have more information, a better feel
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: for where the Cubs can go with these guys.
• 24:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: When it comes to steel specifically, I don't think you can,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: I think it'd be foolish to just like rely on it,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: like kind of expect that you're going to be able
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: to rely on him. really trust him to get big outs.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: But I do think there's, there's an opening for him
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: here in a sense, like if he can get like
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: cross all these hurdles, get enough rehab starts in or
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: rehab outings in, and then get to the big leagues. Like,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know if he has enough runway to prove it.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: And like, cause you have to build that dress. It's
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: been such a long time. We know what his upside is.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: We know what his talent is and we know what
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: he can do. But can he establish himself as like
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: even a one-inning lefty reliever? And I say that this
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: is important because of this, because Ryan Ralston, all the
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: props in the world for a great season, kind of
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: looks like he's slowing down a little bit. He's not
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: missing as many bats. He's starting to walk a little
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: bit more, giving up a few more hits. That happens.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: It could just be a blip, and he locks it
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: back in. Caleb Thielbar looks a little bit better. but
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure if he's going to regain full 2025
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: form where, where he's the number one lefty, you could
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: use a number one lefty out of the bullpen. And
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying Justin Steele can establish that fully in September,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: but can he get to the point where council's like,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: he looks really good. I'm going to use him in
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: the big moment in the playoffs. Like he looks great.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: Like the stuff's there. we know the confidence is there
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: for this guy. We know what he is, what type
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: of competitor he is on the mound. Can he get
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: to that point? I do think it's a long shot.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: I think everything kind of has to go right, but
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: that is kind of the dream scenario. I think right now,
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: because you knew like we put starting behind us. It
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: just feels like that's the pathway to like, here's the
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: significant way that you can impact the team this year
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: and really help them. A guy that I think, that I,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: I'm writing almost in as like going to be a
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: significant piece down the stretch. And in the playoffs has
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: been Brown. Uh, maybe I'm putting the car to that
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: ahead of the horse, but I, he just was so
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: good in every role that he had before the neck
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: injury popped up. And now he's healthy. And, uh, I believe, uh,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: what days today we're recording on a Tuesday. He's going
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: to be out in Arizona doing something, a bridge game,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: I believe, uh, or live BP maybe. And then, um,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: And then a rehab assignment after that, right? If that
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: goes well.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe they framed it as live BP Tuesday
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: in Mesa, as we were recording.
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: Some of this stuff may already be ongoing.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: The Cubs had several pitchers scheduled for various items today,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: including Edward Cabrera throwing a bullpen.
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: But with Brown..
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: It's, you know, live BP bridge game, controlled script, whatever
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: it winds up being. I mean, council's insistent that Brown
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: is leaving Phoenix with the team on Wednesday after the
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: game at Chase field. And that would put him in
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: a position to then be deployed out for a minor
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: league rehab assignment shortly thereafter. We don't have the details
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: on that yet. but you're talking about a guy that's
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: probably going to be pitching in games before Labor Day weekend,
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: maybe even.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: Like two before Labor.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: I'm getting way ahead of myself here, but the point
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: is that Brown and Steele are.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: Sort of in two different buckets. I know we talk
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: about them together.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: They're sometimes lumped together in these updates, but Brown is
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: coming off a neck injury, not an arm injury that
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: required a surgical procedure. That's a big distinction. I mean,
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: his baseline this year is already almost 70 innings in
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: the majors as a really good starting pitcher and a
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: high leverage reliever. There is just simply, Cubs are working
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: with two totally different pitchers at this point. They both
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: could wind up being big parts of the pitching staff, uh,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: in October in different fashions. But right now I'm with you.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: I think you probably pencil Ben Brown into, uh, your
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: projected playoff roster.
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: Um, obviously there.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: Could be setbacks, you know, Cubs have made a lot
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: of pitching plans this year and some of them have worked, but,
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: I think another one like Kobe Milner is going to
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: have to be they're going to have to make a
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: decision on him I believe by Friday his minor league
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: rehab clock is running out here and really you saw
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: the Cubs have a lot of guys over at the
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Mesa complex so you saw them kind of filtering in
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: and out of the club visiting clubhouse at chase field
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: the phil maytons the riley martins like there's just a
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: lot of guys um uh porter hodge gavin hollowell like
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: they're guys kind of coming in and out who are
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: you know some of them are are still you know
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: in the picture some of them uh are not but
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: you know these discussions you know in kind of going
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: back over gosman's season and you know can the Dodgers
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: team Conforto was on, like just the amount of solutions
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: those two teams had to find to, you know, make
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: it to a game seven of the world series is,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: is kind of staggering. And I think the Cubs are
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: pretty well positioned in that regard.
• 30:45
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: It's, it's like, they have all these pictures and I'm
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: curious about like what, what many of them can do.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: And it's like, I'm also like, how do they fit
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: into like, how do they fit these guys onto the
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: roster to see what they have? Without– like you saw
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: the value of Aaron– like you can just say DFA
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Aaron Savali but you saw his value there and I'm
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: just like is it as simple as that? So like
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: some of these decisions, they're going to have to make
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: difficult ones. That's going to be fascinating in its own
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: level as well. But it's nice to have options. This
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: is not a situation that we envisioned fully because it
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: just seemed like it was– they were going to be battling–
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: the the lack of options for a while and and
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: they put themselves in position to have to make difficult
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: good decisions so we'll see what they end up as
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: but i still i think just ben brown is going
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: to be such a huge addition to this team uh
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: i don't know exactly how he'll be deployed probably like
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: how we saw early in the season and and that
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: was just so important in so many different ways so
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: uh curious to see how it all works out uh
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: both of them uh both brown and steel they're Very
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: different situations and confidence level on who can do what
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: is different. But it's this year, I mean. But it's
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: still important for this team. So we'll see where that goes.
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: All right, everyone.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: This is Northside Territory. Make sure to rate, review, subscribe.
• 32:11
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• 32:14
  Speaker 1: We're Patrick and I are on top of all things Cubs.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening and watching, everyone. Take care.