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From Corporate Success to Authentic Storytelling: A Conversation with Emily Chapman · Better Together

• Kelly: Hi everyone, and welcome back to our episode of Better Together, the podcast where it shares the stories, lessons, and practical advice from founders and leaders that can help you improve your business. I'm your host, Kelly Sunsfold, along with my partner in business and life, Sean Sunsfold. Today we're joined by Emily Chapman, the founder of the Testimonial Collective. After spending years producing national commercials for brands like Whirlpool, Kingsford, AutoZone, and Major Health. care organizations, Emily found herself craving something more meaningful than a big budget production and her corporate red tape. She took a leap into entrepreneurship and built a business focused on authentic customer stories that help companies build trust and drive conversation. Today we'll talk about leaving the corporate world, finding fulfillment through entrepreneurship, and why human stories are still one of the most powerful marketing tools available. Welcome to the show, Emily. Emily: Hi, thanks for having me. Kelly: Yeah, of course. Of course. I was I really enjoyed our intro call. I was going back to review that before ⁓ conversation today. And ⁓ I just think you have ⁓ very unique that you've created and I'm sight excited to dig into it and hear more about it today and share it with our listeners. ⁓ so before we start that part, take us back to your corporate career. ⁓ and Emily: Yeah. Kelly: When was the moment or was there a moment that you realize that national campaigns were just not as fulfilling as they once were? Emily: . Yeah, well, it was always my dream to be a commercial editor for years and years. And that's what I trained to do. And I was in that industry for almost 14 years. as kind of, you know, became more and more successful in that industry, something started to just feel off. I think it was it started as a whisper. And by the end, it was more of a yell of this is this is not where you're supposed to be. But it was a confusing because I had always thought this was my dream to edit TV commercials. I think, you know, the moment was when I walked into the gym and you know how they have multiple TVs up. remember seeing more than one of my commercials on the television during that gym session. And I felt nothing. Like I didn't feel excited about it. I didn't feel proud. And a lot of that was because ⁓ you kind of climbed that ladder, getting to work on certain campaigns and with certain brands, there is, like you mentioned, a lot of red tape, a lot of restrictions. And then especially if you go into the medical realm, it's 10x'd over there. And so the creative freedom was really removed from it. And I started to feel like a professional button pusher. And it was really disheartening. And I felt honestly a little bit scared because I thought I trained my whole life for this. Like, what am I going to do now? ⁓ Kelly: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Emily: That moment was when I knew wasn't for me anymore. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah, that's that's gotta be really interesting. Like, you know, you're you're sitting there You're looking at the you know, whatever comes on TV commercials wise, and you're sitting there going, I made that commercial. I made that commercial. You know, you're seeing these things come up over and over again and you just kinda talked about it there of like it just wasn't totally fulfilling for you, right? It you kinda I'm like the button pusher again. So like why do you think that external success, you know, and having these big commercials didn't really translate and hit home for you being like personally fulfilled in the work that you were doing? Emily: Mm-hmm. I think it's because I knew intuitively that things weren't aligned, that there was something else I was supposed to be doing. And was interesting because we have client sessions where agencies would come in and my coworkers would get really excited about these sessions. And I just wasn't. And I thought, something wrong with me? just, the other thing was I would always say, I really don't like people telling you what to do. ⁓ And in the corporate world will say, well, that's... ⁓ That's what having a boss is. And you know, that makes sense. And I have nothing against the corporate world. I always just felt like ⁓ want to be the one calling the shots. I want to be running this. ⁓ the idea of running my own business because I had only grown up around people who were in corporate or friends in corporate, ⁓ never that possibility never entered mind for a really long time. Kelly: Yeah. So so before launching the Testimonial Creative, ⁓ worked for a startup, right? Emily: Yes, so I was with a startup for about a year. I started to do my own thing in video away from corporate. And then a months into that, I ended partnering with a startup and I thought, okay, well, this will scratch the entrepreneurial itch. They've already got a very successful startup going. They need someone to build out their video department. and management and teams, had a lot of flexibility. The pay was great. Like it was remote. You know, on paper, was ⁓ very cush ⁓ I like to say. But I was for a little under a year and I just felt like this still isn't it. This still isn't it. And that was almost harder to leave because I did have it ⁓ so ⁓ in sense. ⁓ Kelly: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Emily: And at this point, you know, I had a two year old, we didn't, it's not, and my husband, it's not like it's just me jumping ship. There were a lot of things at stake, but I just told my husband like, I'm, I know this is just not meant for me anymore. Kelly: you know, you're a very person. I you it you're right. ⁓ The jump ship when you're an entrepreneur and you decide to make that leap, like it usually is more than more than you ⁓ at this point for you. and what did really teach you about entrepreneurship and what you really ⁓ wanted out life? Emily: I, you know, at that point, you know, I earlier how everything had gone more from a whisper up to a yell at that point of this isn't aligned. And I think that just knowing I, it was greater to stay than it was for me to leave, even though it was scary and it was doing something I'd never done before. ⁓ I think that the, Shawn Sundsvold: Mm. Emily: inner knowing and pain and of just staying was just too much and I just could not continue on that route. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah, I I you mentioned the the word scary and I I think I wanna touch on that a little bit 'cause I you know, as you know, Kelly and I started our own business. You know, we decided to make that jump. It had been sort of a side hustle type of thing for about two and a half years and then Kelly made the jump and a couple months later just circumstances happened and I made the jump. So within like two months, you know, we went from neither of us working full time on the business to both of us suddenly working full time on the business and Emily: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Shawn Sundsvold: all the things that you think about, you know, like the finances, the leads, the marketing, the you know, the list goes on and on and on, right? So and health and yeah. Yeah. So like all those things like c it can be overwhelming and it can you know, you use the word scary and I think it fits. So ⁓ you made that jump and, you know, ⁓ was the biggest fear you had when deciding to go like, I'm gonna do this myself? What was the biggest thing you were concerned about? Kelly: Health insurance. Emily: ⁓ yeah. The biggest fear was that I would drain all my finances, go completely broke and have to go back to a nine to five. That was the biggest fear. I think that going to butcher the quote, but I saw someone write online something along the lines of, you know, everyone in the corporate world, their biggest fear is being fired. But my biggest fear is having to go into the corporate world. ⁓ so it's That it just not making it, failing, ⁓ completely broke and having to go back, ⁓ with your tail between your legs. And also, it's scary not just making the jump, but when you publicly declare it, when you go on LinkedIn and say, is what I'm doing now, when you tell your friends and family, I mean, my parents were there, like, you've got kid. But it's just, think, Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Emily: after things start happening and you start to get your first clients and people start to see, this is kind of working. It's not that you need that validation, but it starts to become more real and more like this is your new normal and learning to function at that level. It's very different. But to me, I could work 12, 14, 16 hour days on this. And it, yes, it's tiring, but it brings me joy. Whereas I could work eight hours at a previous job and be exhausted because I'm so mentally and emotionally drained of something I don't want to do. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Yeah, I think you know, and every new business kinda goes through and I think when Kelly and I jumped into this, ⁓ know, it sort of took us like about nine months, ⁓ know, to really get our roles figured out and get financially where, you know, clients were paying for our life and all that kind of stuff. i you don't mind me asking, how long did that take for you to kinda get to that point in your business where it went from like, ⁓ my gosh, to Okay, I can I got ⁓ Emily: Mm-hmm. breathe a little. I mean, ⁓ so it was August of last year that I went full like that I left the startup, launched testimonial collective fully in ⁓ November. And would say just in the past couple of months is where things started to kind of settle because the other thing is, like you said, you know, you're doing everything, their finances, the admin, the Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Mm. Emily: And so everything is a priority. think even though I've always been really organized and in Taipei, that prioritization of what's going to bring in income was really difficult to manage at first because everything is urgent. Your website needs this, know, this customer needs this. And also starting to outsource. I finally started to be able to have like other editors and things like that, ⁓ Kelly: Mm-hmm. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Emily: that was really difficult for me because I'm so about how I want each testimonial to come out and I review everything and I'm very, you know, it's a big deal to me. And so to what I ⁓ a lot of tests with a lot of different editors, ⁓ was very stressful, ⁓ being able to ⁓ focus on the higher or bird's eye view tasks has been a great shift for me. Kelly: Yeah, yeah. So of go let's go into the building of the testimonial collective. ⁓ what problem did you see in the marketplace that really made you there was room for a business focused on specifically ⁓ on storytelling? Shawn Sundsvold: That's awesome. Emily: Yeah. Yeah. what happened was when I was originally full time with the video, I knew I wasn't going to be so ⁓ because that just salutes a brand. ⁓ knew it had to be something I was passionate about. I also, my favorite ⁓ that I worked on when I was doing the commercials and other videos things like that was actually the documentary work that I would do. I loved it. I loved the... that allows you to build real stories and things like that. That was not so restrictive, but those were a little more rare to come by just because in that industry, you know, there's no money in those. So it's not your post house doesn't really take them on a lot. And so was networking, I was meeting with business owners and I would, you know, obviously go on people's websites as I would get to know them. And I noticed that either people ⁓ have video testimonials or if they did, they were ⁓ And they were nobody as much as I love somebody telling me six minutes of how much they loved working with us, know, nobody's going to come to my site and watch a six minute video. And outside of that, I just realized I would see these and I thought if only they knew how to ask the right questions, they could reverse engineer these to get the right answers. And especially like I just could tell with the editing. I was like, if this was just woven this way, this would play out so much better. And I Kelly: Right. Emily: started looking into, know, I didn't want these to just be decorations on a website. I was like, I could make these conversion tools. I could really make these useful so that someone coming to your website looks at this testimonial and says, that's me. This company has solved that problem. They can solve it for me too, because that's me. Like that's my problem. So getting into ⁓ moves the needle for businesses. And then when we started, doing our exploratory sessions of getting into the business owners ICP, getting into the kind of people they're trying to track, what problems do they solve? And being able to, what hesitations do people have before working with them? ⁓ able to answer those for business owner by a happy customer before ⁓ someone on the sales call with them is huge because you're building trust before the call. So ⁓ I saw Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Emily: As I was going through things, saw more and more potential as I dug deeper. And I was like, this could be incredible. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, just in thinking about the the work of testimonials, I think for and this will be really applicable to most of our audience because they're they're all small businesses, right? Testimonials are gold and I think that's for any business, but especially for small businesses. And I think most people get the idea that, you know, a testimonial is just somebody who's a happy customer coming online and saying, I love your product, right? Emily: Yeah. Yeah. Shawn Sundsvold: But there's a lot more to a good testimonial, right? So when when you go into these companies, like what are most people getting wrong about testimonials? Because it is more than just the, you know, happy customer, yay, tell you know, that. Emily: Yeah, I think there's a few things. There's one is what you touched on already, where it's just generic praise that really goes nowhere because, you know, of the videos, when people do Google reviews, like those are great. But everybody now has five star Google reviews, you know? ⁓ And and it's also I'm sure it's a lot of real people on there. But ⁓ people a harder time trusting something that's text as opposed to someone sitting in their living room saying, this is what they really did for me. I think that a lot of companies aren't asking the right questions. And so they aren't getting the right answers that they're not keeping their potential customers in mind. They're just trying to think of good things that they can say about their company. The other thing that they should focus on more is metrics, like very key examples of, okay, we increased revenue by $15,000 this month, or instead of... they were organized, you know, and I think it's more powerful. And I think Kelly and I may have talked about this when we were on a call before, but it's much more powerful to come to a website and see someone instead of saying, oh, it was great working with, you know, the accountant and her team, you know, I don't know, Katie, this accountant, Katie, you know, is great working with her team. They were very organized. They took care of us. As opposed to, you before working with Katie, our finances were so messed up, we thought we were going to lose our house. We were under such stress. We did not know where to turn and we felt like, you know, very underwater. And she took us by the hand and she explained step by step exactly what we were going to do. She put us on a plan. so having those specific details as well really start to illustrate a story that customers can see themselves in. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Yeah. And what I'm hearing there is, you know, as you're talking about what really works is it's personalized. Emily: Mm-hmm. ⁓ yeah. Shawn Sundsvold: Right. Like it's really taking that person's situation of, you know, here's where we were before and here's where we are after to really walk them through that change. And I I I love that. you ⁓ know, and I and so I've got to do that. But I'm as you're talking about that, I'm sitting here going, ⁓ yeah, that'd be really good to say, that'd be good to explain. I'm like, that would be really helpful for them. ⁓ thank you. Yeah. Emily: Yeah, yeah, of course. And the other thing is businesses think of their ideal you everybody has their niche, everybody has the people that they serve specifically, ⁓ but think they don't realize within that those niches and those those service areas, ⁓ you've different problems for different people and different customers. And so being able to not just have one testimonial, but I would say three is the benchmark that I say is really solid. because that's where you build credibility. And if you can touch on three different problems you've solved under that same triangle, the same niche, that's golden. Because also the other thing is sometimes people say, well, yeah, I've got a testimonial on my site. And that's great. mean, I'm sure, you know, I would rather go with one over none. But the problem is sometimes there's a red flag of if this company is so successful in doing so well, why is there only one? Kelly: Mm-hmm. Emily: Is that their brother, is that their cousin, like that people do that sometimes. So if you can get three and you can get three different problems solved or three different demographics within your niche, ⁓ that ⁓ ideal. Kelly: Yeah, yeah. So you seeing this in our industry too. It's just like this polished this work versus a more human, intentional kind look. ⁓ So ⁓ you you a choice to kind of move away from that highly polished production. Why do you believe authenticity often outperforms perfection? Shawn Sundsvold: Awesome. Emily: Yeah, so originally when doing this, I looked into skeleton crews to go out and shoot these because you think, ⁓ you want this polished testimonial video, you want it to look professional. ⁓ we started to realize that when ⁓ you want get a trusted review of something or ⁓ say asking a friend about a restaurant or a car dealership or things like that, You are much more likely to trust someone that you can sense as a real person. And that means someone sitting in their living room discussing, know, their experience with this car service or this ⁓ or things like that, as opposed to they're a broad onset. There's lights, there's makeup, there's quite like it feels very manufactured people can sense that. ⁓ And interesting is ⁓ outside testimonials, the recent shift in content online from super polished on social media to now that's more organic, get a look inside of my life, because people want to feel that connection to that creator or that business, that human connection in the world of AI right now is so craved. And so to be able to bring that to the table have people say, this was my real experience with this business, that's going to when customers over 10 times more than something that just happens to look nice on a set. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. I it's it it's such a shift that's happening and I think, ⁓ you you're in such a unique industry, right? Like this isn't just like I don't call it like it doesn't really fall necessarily into marketing and it doesn't there's it just kinda falls in its own place, right? So ⁓ as trying to sh ⁓ create for your business, what what has a unique challenge for you that didn't realize ⁓ was gonna be challenge? Emily: Mm-hmm. I ⁓ realize how misunderstood testimonials are, ⁓ And think you touched on it earlier by saying, ⁓ yeah, just record this happy video about this business. But when they're well, ⁓ when they're right, they can bring in so much more business for a business. just a matter of, you know, and interesting is in the beginning, when I was doing this, there was a lot of interest shown, but people wanted me, I many times was asked to kind of make a version of this that was as many as you can and just kind of, ⁓ know, manufacture these out. ⁓ I almost compared it to ⁓ IKEA as opposed to handmade ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ saying no to that, doing in mass quantities, kind of just rifling through them. Kelly: Mm. Emily: doing general questions, things like that, because that would make them like everyone else's. And I know testimonials is already a niche, very niche area, but for me, coming from my background, I was like, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this right. And so, they're a little bit more, I would say it's a little bit more of an investment, but the is to get more business. The point is not to be, like I said, a decoration on a website. And also of that, able to give the clients ⁓ full breakdown of how to use these, not just throw them on your website, but where they can be used strategically so that you're getting more clients. And because that's the end goal. ⁓ end goal is not for me to make nice videos for people. It's for businesses to get more business. Like that is what keeps the engine going. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Emily: results. ⁓ they know that ⁓ they're doing everything right. It just feels like something is not. moving. And so this is a very unique way to start to get that ball rolling as opposed to, you know, kind of doing it how everybody else does it, Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Yeah. just kind of thinking about where we are in the world right now, you know, AI has been a big push the last couple of years and it's getting bigger and bigger and, you know, we see more and more stories about it. So we've got this, you know, world full of AI generated content. Let's about like the authentic human stories versus like AI generated content. Emily: Yeah, I mean, I think it's everything. think that AI is excellent in terms, like I use it in my business all the time in terms of efficiency or organization or expediting things, but I refuse to use it in the area of creating these. Like it's all human editors, like in addition to the stories, you know, it's the story producers, all human. The interviews are all one-on-one real people. It's not just answer this list of questions. And like I said earlier, I think that in the world of AI, although it's exciting and I think it can be used for a lot of great things, I think people are starting to crave that human connection. And the trust is built so much more with the human connection. If not gonna trust a bot or somebody AI generated nearly as much as a real person with their real story of what they experienced. Kelly: Mm. Yeah, for sure. For sure. So of ⁓ this up, and heading towards that, what advice would you give someone who feels ⁓ maybe creatively professionally unfulfilled? Shawn Sundsvold: Mm. Kelly: in their career. I know there's a lot of a lot of chatter around that now, especially within the Gen Z millennial ⁓ of generation. but someone who feels afraid to make that jump, what advice would you give them? ⁓ Emily: Yeah. I would tell them that, you know, to follow their intuition and that if they're hearing those whispers, they're absolutely meant for more and they're absolutely capable. But it's taking that first step. it's the other thing is you don't have to have a perfect plan. don't have to have the perfect structure, but results come from messy action. ⁓ I'm sure you guys can say the exact same thing. ⁓ the beginning, was so terrified. And so feeling like, I've never run a business before. I've been in video for 14 years, but I've never run a business. You know, I don't know the first thing about accounting or like we're saying insurance and this. And you just take the step and then you learn from it. And whether it's a step in a failure, you still learn from it or a step in the right direction. But they just take you to step in and following that knowing, and you'll absolutely start making progress and then start realizing like, okay. I can do this. And then you're like, why did I ever spend so long in that career? Kelly: Right. Right. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah, yeah. And I think too, you know, something that you've you've touched on there a little bit, but like an unwavering commitment to your own success. Right? Emily: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that's really commendable for you guys, because you guys did it together. Like, that is, you know, because you also have kids and things like that. That is to say, ⁓ we're both in this. And I think that's really, really amazing as well. But yeah, ⁓ I agree 100%. it's ⁓ I think you said this before, people have said that. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Emily: You know, you don't need to pay for therapy. Being an entrepreneur is like on crack every ⁓ You get slapped in face with reality. And if you keep coming back, know, your resilience. Great. It is building character. ⁓ Shawn Sundsvold: Yes. Kelly: Yeah. Shawn Sundsvold: It definitely is. I one of my mentors, know, one of the things he often says, doesn't matter if it's the most amazing thing that just happened or, ⁓ know, the most detrimental thing happens, you know, his statement was always, ⁓ too shall pass. Right? And it's like, you can have the worst day. You know what? That's today. Tomorrow's a new day. And, know, if you hit that ⁓ highest achieve the goal, whatever it is, enjoy the moment and Kelly: Yes. ⁓ my gosh. Emily: Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. Shawn Sundsvold: Tomorrow's a new day and you've gotta do the descent to start the next climb for whatever it is. So, ⁓ you know, kind of along that subject of, you know, what's next, as you continue growing the testimonial collective, excites you most about the future of your company and ⁓ the impact you wanna make in the world? Emily: Yeah. Yeah, I think it's exciting now to see I visualize expansions on like expansion on a level that I don't think I could have in the beginning. And I know it will take time, but just the possibilities that have already presented themselves that and I'm sure you guys have seen this as well, where have a certain picture in your mind of how your business is going to go and the people you're going to serve and what you're going to do. then. ⁓ through a series of events, you start realizing, ⁓ I could also do this or we could do this this way. And are really exciting. Or when other business owners have come to me and said, hey, have you thought about this or like founder stories or things like that, that things to mesh. And then there's also been other companies that I have to pair up with in certain ways that I didn't see possible before. And I was like, wow, I just. Having my eyes open to possibilities, that's really exciting because the potential there is endless. And also, you know, having a family and being able to, even though entrepreneurship is wild, as we've said, being able to be in control if you need to go be with your sick kid or deal with certain things like that to me, it doesn't matter how much money I bring in. That is priceless. That's why I'm doing it. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Kelly: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Shawn Sundsvold: Mm-hmm. Emily: And so when things like that have happened, it just reaffirms all those hard days that we talk about. Because it's like, yeah. So that's also in its own way exciting. Because it's like, yes, this is what I want. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. I love that. Kelly: All right. Well Emily, this was a really great conversation. To wrap this up, can you ⁓ with our audience how they get in touch with you? Emily: Yeah, so my website is thetestimonialcollective.com or you can email me directly at emily at thetestimonialcollective.com. actually just starting to get our socials going this month, so those will be up soon, but yeah. ⁓ Kelly: Nice, nice. Yeah, well I'm looking for Emily: Thanks so much for having me. This is fantastic. I know I'd met you before, Kelly, but Sean, it's great to meet you and get the picture of you guys. ⁓ Shawn Sundsvold: Thank you. Kelly: Yeah, yeah. I'm looking forward to hopefully working with you in the future. So thanks so much for being a guest and sure we'll keep in touch. ⁓ Emily: Yeah. Yeah.