Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Body Double with Shereen Lani Younes

Transcript

Body Double with Shereen Lani Younes · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hi, listeners. We wanted to provide a content warning for
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: this episode because the movie, as well as our discussion
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: involves things like stalking, spousal abuse, physical assault, and violence
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: toward women. Just so everyone is aware. Enjoy the episode.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: On the beck Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: have women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy zef
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: invest start changing it with the bec Del Cast, Jamie Caitlin,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: take a look into my telescope and observe from a
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: distance the movie Body Double and how it asks us
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: to be empathetic toward a protagonist who is Okay, we're
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: starting negative, reeling negative for coming in freezing. I'm sorry,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: I can't stop looking at so my my dog is
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: here right now. I want to just say at the top.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: First of all, welcome to the Bexelcast. Second of all,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: you know this this movie is gonna be an interesting chat.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Third of all, Sonny's here and I got him a
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: couple of tennis balls because I'm a you know, I'm
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: you're a good mommy. I just like to give him things,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: but they're squeaky. I didn't realize they were squeaky, and
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: he wouldn't stop barking at me until I gave him
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: all four. So there might be some squeaks. He has
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: them all, he's arranged them into a little diamond and
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: he just keeps looking at them lustfully, and then occasionally
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: he'll pick one up in his mouth and squeak it
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: and then put it back and then rearrange the diamond formation.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: It's kind of sick and sick and perverted. It's because
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: I showed him body double. Well, I was gonna say,
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, speaking of looking at things lustfully. Yeah, I
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: know he learned it, he said, I learned it from
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: my boy to Palma horrifying. Okay, welcome to the Actel Cast.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: My name is Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin Darante,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: and this is our show where we examine movies through
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist lens, and we use the Bechtel test
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: simply as a jumping off point to inspire a larger
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: conversation about film. Flim flims. If you will, what is
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: the Bechtel test? Though, Jamie, I forget, well, the Betel
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: test is a movie or no, it's a It's an
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Oh my God. It's a media metric created by Quirk
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test, lots
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: of versions of it. Ours requires that two people of
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: a marginalized gender speak to each other about something other
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: than a man for more than two lines of dialogue
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: at very least, and they must have names in the
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: and and it should means that should be a meaningful interaction.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Can I give a quick anecdote example, please? There is
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: a really annoying Twitter joke that is recycled every time
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: a new movie comes out, where they're like, I'm sorry
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: to report like Hopgun Maverick does not pass the Bechtel test,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: and it gets five trillion likes every time, and it's
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: never funny, and it annoys me. And it particularly annoyed
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: me yesterday when someone recycled that joke yet again to
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: say Minions Rise of Grew does not pass the Bechtel test. Now, listen,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: I went to see Minions Rise of Grew last night
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: opening night, and it does pass the Bechdel test. So
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: not only have we been saying for years it's a
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: flawed metric to begin with, and plenty of incredible movies
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: do not pass the Bechdel test, but it is a
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: good jumping off point for discussion. Perhaps Minions did pass
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: the Beckdel test between Julie Andrews and Taraji p Henson.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: And if that's not a super pass, I don't know
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: what sucking is. Tell me about it. Oh my god.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: So that's the show, um, And today we are talking
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: about a pretty popular request, UM that we've gotten over
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: the years many times. It's a Brian to Palmer movie
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: called Body Double. It came out in four It's a
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: neo noir, erotic thriller, and people have been saying it's
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: sexist since it came out. So and if something is sexist,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: I'm very excited to talk about it now. And we
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: have an incredible returning guest. Is this is this a three? Thin?
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Your third time? Aladdin? Speed? Was there something something in between?
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: There was something in between? I think I think that
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: this might be four. I just can't remember the other one.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Maybe three, I don't know. I don't know. Time, Aladdin, Speed,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: and Body Double is a is a pretty solid genre
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: spread too. Yeah, Well, let's introduce you properly. They are
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: a filmmaker. Half of the podcast ethnically ambiguous. It's Sharine
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Lannie Unite, welcome back. Thanks for having me. I having
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: curious about this movie for so long, so I was
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: glad to have a reason to watch it. Um. I
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: don't know what I was expecting, because I don't like
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: knowing anything about a movie before I jump in, Like,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: I know I want to see it, but I just
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: will not look any up about it. So it was
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: a ride. I did not know what I was getting into.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: It was that so you had never seen this before? No, no, okay.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: I was fascinated about, Like what if you had a
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: history with it? Are you like a Di Palma fan?
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: I mean not necessarily. I think he's like he's all untalented.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: I think he's he makes it clear, especially in this movie,
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: that he's just horny all the time. But but I
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: just like that the poster is also really like erotic,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: and like, I've just heard so much about this movie
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: for some reason, like maybe on letterbox and stuff. I
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: always saw it pop up and I was like, what
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: is this and that someone described it as aum the
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: hottest thriller of the eighties or the sexiest thriller of
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: the eighties, So I was like that piqued my interest.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: But but yeah, I don't have any history with it
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: other than being just like very curious about it. And
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: now I know me either. I had never seen this
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: movie either. It was like vaguely on my radar. But
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: I will say that erotic thrillers are one of my
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: least favorite genres, so I never seek them out. And
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Brian de Palma, I'm not a fan. There, I said it.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: I don't like really any of his movies we've covered. Weirdly,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: we've covered two diploma movies on this show before. We've
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: cavered Mission Impossible one, and we've covered Carrie. But he
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: also did Scarface, which Untouchables. Oh, I do like Blowout
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: with neither John Travolta. It's maybe my favorite John Travolta performance. Um,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: I would recommend blow Out out of all of the
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Apollo movies, I would recommend even over Face Off, which
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: I think is no no, no no, But that's John Travolta. Yeah, yeah,
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: oh yes, yes, Face Off is closest I've ever come
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: to converting to scientology easily. You're just like, um, maybe
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: he's got a point, because I love that movie. It's
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: one of my top five movies of all time. I
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: love that movie, Oh my gosh. But I would recommend
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: maybe second, and then I would recommend it for his
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: second best performance, Blowout. It's like it's like a in
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: that movie. I'm like, Oh, he's a good actor, you
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: know what I mean. But anyway, so Caitlin, you had
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: not seen it before, I had not, had you, I
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: had not. No. I think we all kind of had
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: a similar experience where I've been hearing about this movie
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: for years and I just sort of wasn't in a
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: rush to see it. Honestly, the main selling point for
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: me on this movie was I really like Melanie Griffith,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: and I am always down to see Melanie Griffith in
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: a movie, and I thought she did a great job.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: And I'm always just like sometimes seeing Melanie Griffith in
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: like movies in the eighties, who are just like, we're
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: not giving her the material that she needs. And you know,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: it took a generation and now her daughter Dakota Johnson
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: is doing a lot of incredible work that Melanie Griffith
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: should have had access to as well. Anyways, some of
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: the only good nepotism in the world, as far as
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: I'm concerned, like that legacy. Agree amazing. But I knew
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: that this movie had been and controversial for really long time,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: and I sunny that is really enough. But but I
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: didn't I don't know. I didn't know any of the
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: shrine like similar deal. I didn't know plot. I didn't
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: know anything. I didn't know that it started a Bill
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Maher doppelganger that was really distracted, distracted, especially with his
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: hair slicked back when he was like playing the producer
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: person with his hair slick back. That's that's Bill Mark,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: it is. I mean, I don't know anything about this guy.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: He's been he's been nominated for a Golden Globe, like god,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: bless good for Craig Wasson. Who's that. I mean, look,
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: we don't know. He could be a terrific guy. We
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: don't know. The point is he is he looks exactly
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: like someone despicable and it's like really despicable me. Shout
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: out to our Despicable Me episode on the Matreon. You guys,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: I loved Rise. It grew so much. It was so funny.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: There they made a joke about look Already Airport. That
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: was the minions essentially, Look, they fly a plane in
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: this one and it's so funny. Okay, we have to
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: we cannot get into the minions, so I hadn't. I'm
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: like kind of ambivalent towards the Palma. I think that
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: like his place in like movie history is kind of
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: interesting because he's like grouped in with all those famous
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: seventies directors and he's kind of one of the less
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: discussed of them, like that whatever, we're crazy. He's still
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: very discussed, but I feel like it's not well. But
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: I don't want to dump it into fun but like
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's like it's not discussed because his
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: movies are like so fucking awesome. Sure, he's just discussed.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: I liked Carrie. Like I know, I haven't revisited in
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: our episode or the movie in a while, but I mean,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Carrie really stuck with me when I was younger. I
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: remember enjoying Phantom of the Paradise, but I like watched
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: it when I was sick a couple of years ago.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: And other than that, I kind of don't have And
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: then you know, mission impossible. Sure why not Scarface? Scarf? Yes,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: I have not seen Scarface. That's one of my like
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: right up there with I've not seen a single Godfather
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: and like Scarface is something that we will have to
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: cover eventually, and I dread the day he made Scarface
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: right before Body Devil, which is really interesting to me
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: because they feel completely different. But well, so he didn't
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: write Scarface. No, he didn't know. I just realized, like
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: as I was talking, like for Bobby Devil is said
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: story by to Palma that he wrote it with someone else.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: But this movie is I mean the music, first of all,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: very dramatic, like peeping music, like every time you see
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: that you saw the telescope, it was like this ethereal
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: weird music. And then like they were just it was
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: the music kind of scared me at times. I was
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: not expecting so much, like it was manipulative. Yeah, I
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: didn't like this movie and I like it, that's okay.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: I didn't like it, and it was like it's weird too,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: because it was like one of those movies that it
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: has been so like people didn't like when they came
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: out and they're like, this is weird Hitchcock rip off
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: that is like even worse to women somehow and people.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: And then that was it for a while, and then
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: people were trying to reclaim it. They're like, no, it's commentary.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: And then I'm like, uh, I couldn't get there. I
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: couldn't get like it's like horny Hitchcock, right, and it's
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: like Hitchcock also famously not a good person. Right. I've
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: got some quotes for for after we do the recap.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: But like, I just was sort of because this movie
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: has undergone so many like rounds of analysis and like
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: some people have I think, like whatever, like think whatever
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: you want, but like try to reclaim it as like
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: this movie is commentary on voyeurism, it's not just voyeurism.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: And I looked to see if di Palma had ever
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: given an interview to try to make that same case,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: and he sort of like did not at all. He's like,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: that's this is what happens in movies like by you know,
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: and so we'll we'll get to like the exact particulars
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: of what he has said about the movie. But I just, yeah,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: looking for his thoughts on this movie didn't really change
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: my opinion of it in any way. I just I
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: thought it would be Honestly, because it's been talked about
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: so much, I thought it would be better. Like I
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: thought it would be paler than it was and that's
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: why I asked to watch Chicks. I was like, Oh,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: finally this reason to watch this longest movie that I've
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: heard so much about. It's probably decent. Let's go, and
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: I will say I think it was. I'm glad we
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: watched it because there are a few lines that might
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: be like my favorite lines in cinema of all times,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: that I just can't stop thinking about. There's which one
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: when he's in the acting class and the guys like
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: you are a baby and you're afraid and you must act,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: and then he goes, I can't. I'm a sardine. Like
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: I just lost it, Like it was the stupidest line
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: I've ever heard in my entire life. I can't. I'm
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: a sardine. Uh. And then she's like you are a baby,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: and I was like, I hear that. I feel that
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: in my bones. I mean. But other than that, I mean,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: I also love Melanie Griffith. I really I think she
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: also deserved more just to be not as sexualized and
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: not as just like pigeonholed as she was. But also
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: she's like top build, but she doesn't come into the
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: movie until like an hour or more. But it's just
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: like who are you going to top Bill Craig Wesson?
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Who then is that? Who? So? Okay, should I Well,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: let's take a quick break first and then we'll get
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: into the recap and we are back, and should we
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: get into the recap and go from there? Yeah, let's
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: do it. Okay, So body double. We meet Jake Scully
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: played by Craig Watson, which, okay, first of all, Avatar
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Jake Sully, Jake Scully, Yeah, distracting. I was like, for
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: a moment, I was like, is that Sully's name in Monsters, Inc?
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: And then it's not. Sully had a different first name,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: James Sullivan. Yeah. And then I was like, but who's
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Jake Sully? And then I didn't investigate further. But yes, Jamie,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: you're right, Like, we don't have time to get into
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Avatar right now, and we will be covering it later
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: in the year. It's a complicated film with a bizarro
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: fucking history. But Jake Sully, like, and they say his
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: name five trillion times, that's like, arguably the only thing
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: I remember is the tail scene and the fact that
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: there's a character named Jake Sully. Jake Sully. So Jake Scully,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Jake Scully that's on James Cameron. Yeah, he should have
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: not named his character basically the same thing. But we
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: meet Jake Scully. He is an actor in Hollywood. Ever
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: heard of it. He goes to an iconic hot dog
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: stand that no longer exists at the beginning of the
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: movie called Taylor the Pup, whose history I cover in
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: my hot Dog book. Oh, it's like that hot dog
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: shape building at the beginning of the movie, and it's
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: been moved to like, yeah, it still exists, but they
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: just like moved the building to like a storage unit.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: But it's still around, there's just not hot dogs in
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: it anymore. Anyways, l A History. We were talking about
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: l A History a lot in Speed too. That's true. Yeah,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, I they're a little bit cringe sometimes, but
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: I do appreciate, like a very appreciate. I think those
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: meta movies like You're You're suddenly on a movie set,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: I think those are kind of funny, you know what
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, where they're likely higher to be filmed by
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: the crew. I just think it's like very funny to
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: me for some reason. Yeah, So this was the opening
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: to this was entertaining. I was like, oh, yeah, I've
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: never seen that before Bartie's Beanery Hello, because what happens is,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: so we meet Jake Scully when he is in the
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: middle of filming a take for a vampire movie where
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: he is the vampire and he's in a coffin, but
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: he freezes and can't act because we'll learn that he
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: has claustrophobia, so he's struggling with that. We then see
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: Jake out of his vampire makeup and it is now
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: clear that he is a dead ringer for Bill Maher
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: and again it's very distracting, which I don't even know
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: if that was a person at the time, Like, I
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: know he's a lot, but I'm like, I don't even
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: think he was famous when this movie came out, So
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: that just sucks for Craig. Sorry Craig. So Jake goes
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: home and walks in on his girlfriend having sex with
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: another man, and he is devastated and he now needs
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: somewhere else to stay. He tries to carry on with
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: his life. We see him at interviews, auditions, we see
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: him at acting class, and then he meets and befriends
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: this guy named Sam who has a place for him
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: to stay because Sam has been house sitting for a friend.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: This rich guys, I think also in the movie business.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: In the picture business. He's got one of my favorite
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: movie props ever, the like bed that spins around. Oh yeah,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: it's good. Yea. So also I looked it up. The
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: elevated circular house. It's just it's a house called what
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: was it called the Chemisphere, and it's in l A.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Was designed by John Lawtner in nineteen sixty and it's
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: like this like private historic thing. I thought that was
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: so interesting, just like the spaceship in the in the Hills.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Does it still exist? Yeah, it's still there. It's a
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: one story octagon on the San Fernando Valley side of
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: the Hollywood Hills off of Mulholland. It's just sitting there.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Let's go field trip. That's why I sort of assumed
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: it was like a model. I don't know. I just
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: was like, that doesn't exist, and I didn't ask any
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: more questions. That's wild. It was declared in l a
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: historical Cultural Monument in two thousand four. That's cool. Yeah,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: that's the vibe. But I thought it was interested. There's
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: like a what's it called, like a little trolley that
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: even brings you up to the house. I've never seen
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: that in my life. Yeah, I know. I'm like, does
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: that Whoever lives there has to go on a little
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: roller coaster trolley ride every time they want to go home.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: It was wild. That is terrifying. You're like, oh, that's like,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: that's very exciting. But then also when you're going up
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: to a place like that, you're like, oh, this is
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: where I die. Like this is you know, there's no
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: coming down. But no one dies in that house. They
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: die in other houses, and they die in other houses.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: So Sam has been house sitting for a friend who
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: lives in this house. But Sam is about to go
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: out of town for this five week gig he has,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: so he arranges for Jake to stay at this place
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: while Sam is gone. So Sam shows Jake around the
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: house and he points out this telescope in the house
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: with a view of a neighbor woman who dances all
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: naked and sexy every night at the same time. And
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Jake is like, oh whooa and he spies on her
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: for a really long time. It's all foamy And the
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: music is the music woud the peeping music is so
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: disturbing because it's so happy, right, because it's like, oh, la, la,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: isn't this so awesome that he's spying on her? Exactly.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: I've like seen arguments that like they're like, oh, I
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: guess that, like the Pomo was accused of ripping off
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Hitchcock quite a bit because he did do that, Like
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: it was because he didn't. I mean, this movie is
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: literally Rear Window plus and Vertigo Vertigo, Yeah, exactly the hornier.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: But like some people have made the argument that they're like, Okay,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: he had been he had been received this criticism for
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: so long that he's like I'm going to triple down
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: and make it like I'm gonna make the worst movie ever. Um.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I like read a whole piece on The
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Independent that was like Body Double is De Palma's ultimate troll,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: which to me, I like saw what he was saying.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: But I was also like, um, but sometimes you just
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: make a movie that sucks and it's not like a
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: four a game of forty chess. I mean, yeah, in retrospect,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: it's probably like you can say anything you're being a troll,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: you know, if something sucks, you can be like I
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: was trolling, Like that's a good cop out. Yeah, if
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: you're called out on something that's my plan. I'm just like, yeah,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: when I when I make something that fucking flops, Like, yeah,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: that was that was supposed to Did I make you
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: think I did that on purpose? Yeah? Exactly, exactly right. Okay.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: So he spies on this neighbor woman for a really
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: long time, and then later that night he watches her again,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: but this time he sees a man in the room
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: with her. It seems to be her boyfriend or husband,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: and Jake watches this guy hit the woman and then leave.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: The next day, Jake gets word that he's been fired
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: from the vampire movie because the director doesn't want to
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: deal with his claustrophobia. So he's even more down on
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: his luck. And then that night he spies on the
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: neighbor woman again doing her sexy naked dance. And it's
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: the same naked dance every night, every night, always at midnight.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: He did get context for it later, but it is
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: just so confusing to me that the character of like
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: he's just like so he is a sardine essentially, because
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: he just isn't asking questions that you need to be
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: even as like a perverted sex criminal. He's not asking
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: very obvious questions such as, why is it the same
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: routine every day? Like yeah, yeah, I mean I won't
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: get into like the actual plot, but I do think
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: it's very funny that the plot rides on him being
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: a creep, Like you know what I mean, Like he
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: had to have started this all because he the person,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: knew he would look at her, Like that's that's the
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: whole play rides on this guy, like proving that he's
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: a creep. I just think that's and it goes off
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: like nobody's business. And also I feel like it also
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: rides on and it's like this, I don't disagree with
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: this necessary like but like also him being very certain
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: that he's not a creep, which is true of many creeps.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: But I'm not a creep. I'm a political activist, right
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: There's like I'm a good guy. I was protecting her
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: and then the detective, who I'm like, are we supposed
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: to agree with the detective because I have a whole
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: thing about that. Yeah, yeah, I thought the same thing.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: I was like for the first time or cop speaking
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: a good point and then but I think the movie
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: thinks no. But yeah, well we'll get into that a
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: little ambiguous. Yeah, So he's watching Jake Sully's slash. Scully
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: is watching the woman do her naked dance the same
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: exact routine is before, and this time he notices another
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: creepy guy watching her from a distance as well. The
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: next day, Jake runs into the neighbor woman on the street.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: They're like both an intersection or there in their cars,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: and he sees the creepy guy from the night before
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: also stalking this woman. So Jake follows the woman, presumably
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: to keep an eye on her and like try to
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: keep her safe question mark, And she goes to this
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: shopping center. He watches her go into a store, peeps
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: at her while she's trying on a pair of underwear,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: and meanwhile the creepy guy is still stalking her also,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: so Jake's kind of keeping an eye on both her
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: and this other stalker. Jake then gets into an elevator
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: with her. Wait before they get in the elevator, the
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: first I believe the first line a woman has in
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: the Hall movie has a woman calling security on Jake.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: I think it's like it's like over a half hour
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: into the movie, because we've seen many women at this point,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: we've spent we spent minutes at a time, lingering on
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: this dance routine. We see like there's a lot of
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Jake looking. I mean, the whole movie is Jake looking
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: at women, and that's obviously on purpose. But even when
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: he catches his girlfriend cheating on him, she just like
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: stares at him of like oh, yike, right, and then
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: and then he just leaves so she doesn't even get
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: a line of dialogue. And then, yeah, the first time
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: you hear a woman speak it is to call security
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: on him for being a peeping tom on Gloria while
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: she's getting changed in of fucking dressing room, but also
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: protecting her. You're like, what, she leaves an enormous gap
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: in the curtain of the dressing room, just like in
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: the middle of it, and it's like that's not a
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: choice that anyone makes the time. Well, yeah, it's like
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: the way that the character characters are written in this
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: movie are like completely irrational. But like, I did think
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: it was funny that it takes a half hour for
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: a woman this week, and then it's just like, we
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: need to get this guy out of here. There's not
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: a single crew member who's female or talks. There's not
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: a single any even side character women voices, and I think, uh,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: because you see the woman in the store interact with
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: the person he's stalking for like a minute, but you
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: don't hear the conversation. So I was like, if we
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: heard the conversation, maybe this would pass the test. But
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: maybe not just talking about underwear. We're watching. We're watching
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: the creepy is guy alive observing them having a conversation? Yeah,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: well staring at the Uh. This movie is so bizarre.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Um yeah, yeah, I don't love it. I hate it.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Um Okay, So Jake, so he's like kind of following
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: and keeping an eye on everyone. He then gets into
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: an elevator with her, but oh no, his cluster photo
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: we h uh. And then she throws her old pair
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: of underwear away after she's bought this new pair. Who knows. Wait,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: I thought it was the new pair. She throws away
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: the old one. I think so because she where's the
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: new one out of the store and she puts the
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: old pair in the bag? Yeah, he was. It was
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: a sniffing situation. So he he takes her old underwear
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: out of the trash, and I do think he smells it. Yeah,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: And I mean not to king shame. But he as
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: I say, but it's like, but she, you can't do that.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: You can't underwear from them without them knowing. Yes. So
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: he takes her to wear out of the trash, and
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: then he follows her to the beach, spies on her there,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: eavesdrops on her phone conversations, and then Jake see's the
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: creepy guy again, the other sorry, the other creepy guy.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: He gets so close there. I was talking to kill
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: It about this over text yesterday, where like in that
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: scene where like he's watching her from like the tents
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: on the beach, and then she looks at him, and
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: the music swells as if to be like she does
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: notice him, and you're like, oh my god, what's going on?
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: And then two seconds later, Because honestly, I did strung
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: able to like pay attention to this movie. It's really hard.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: I kept kind of getting distracted because there's all these
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: long wing grief shots where it's like creepy and nothing
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: is happening. So I looked down at my phone for
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: ten seconds, and then I looked up again and he
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: was like standing right behind her, and she had no idea.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: This is yet another example of like object of protagonist
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: desire has no spatial awareness for plot reasons, it's so
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: frustrating situation. So so he's on the beach now he's
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: stalking this woman whose name we will learn is Gloria Revel.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Pretty soon he's doing exactly what the other creepy guys doing,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: which is also stalking her. But Jake catches up to
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: her and he's like, someone's following you and she's like,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: I know, and he's like, but it's not me, and
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: it's like, yes it is, and also it's someone else,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: and just then the other creepy guy grabs her purse
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: and runs off, so Jake chases after him, but the
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: guy runs into a tunnel and Jake can't keep going
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: because of his claustrophobia. So the guy takes something out
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: of the purse, we're not sure what yet, and then
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: he runs off. So then the woman catches up. Gloria
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: catches up with Jake, and then they start making out
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: for a while. Just kisses her for a while. It's uncomfortable,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: and it's also like, it looks like it makes me uncomfortable,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: but they also look uncomfortable. She looks uncomfortable because she's
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: saying no no, yes, no, yes, no, not here because
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: she's like into it, we're supposed to think for a while,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: and then she's like but no, I can't not here,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: and then she runs off. I kept waiting for that
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: to be revealed to have been like a fantasy of Jake's,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: especially like the more it's completely irrational when it happens,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: but then as the plot goes on and it becomes
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: this whole like bizarrow conspiracy, Hollywood something blah blah blah,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Like it makes less and less sense the more you know,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: because the more you know, the more you're like, how
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: does Gloria even know this guy exists? Like half the
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: time he was peeping on her, it wasn't even hurt.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Like it's so bizarre that she would want anything to
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: do with this guy. Yeah, I kept waiting for it
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: to be like the whole thing is a dream, but
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: she's just so horny. But like that's the thing. Every
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: woman in this movie is so ready to have sex,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: which no judgment on that, but it does not with
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: Jake Scully, Like why does she make out with him
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: when he just like starts kissing it? Like that didn't
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: make And like you said, I thought it was going
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: to be a fantasy, because there are other moments in
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: the movie where he seems to be fantasizing about something,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: but like, it turns out not to be a fantasy.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: They actually kissed on the beach, and for some reason
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: she was into it for a while. She runs off eventually.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: It's so like the camera angle on that scene where
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: it's like spinning around them. It's supposed to be really
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: like sweeping romantic and like, so again, I feel like
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: even the camera work in the music is leading you
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: to believe that this isn't actually happening, but then it
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: just was. I thought so too, but then it just
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: was confusing bad filmmaking. Okay. That night, Jake spies on
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Gloria in her home again with the telescope, and he
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: sees the other creepy guy in her house now, so
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: he tries to call her and warn her. He runs
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: to her house to help her, but the creepy guy
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: attacks Gloria with a large power drill and kills her.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Jake breaks into her house to save her, but it's
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: too late. She has been murdered. I guess the power
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: drill thing is a thing in Scarface as well, and
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: so everyone was just like, Okay, Brian de Palma is
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: obsessed with power drills. I don't remember that. But it's
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: also been like over fifteen years since I've seen Scarface.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: I'm realizing I don't like crime syndicate movies. I find
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: them very boring. But we will cover The Godfather someday
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: on this show, because it was because I think it
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: would be funny. Yeah, well, yeah, someday. We cut to
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: the cops at the scene of the crime and we
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: meet Detective McLean, who questions Jake and he's like, you're
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: the only witness, and also you're a peeping tom and
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: a pervert, and I can see Gloria's underwear in your
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: pocket right now, and kind of what that the whole scene.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: We were talking about it a little earlier, but you're like,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: first of all, it's disorienting because the cop appears to
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: be correct, but also we're not supposed to, Like Brian
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: to Paul was like a cab. The one time a
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: cop is correct, it's like so exactly. Also in that scene,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: I feel like this is it just feels very nineteen
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: eighties that in that scene and also very now, but like,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: particularly with like the mask offulness about it. The detective
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: correctly says, like peeping is against the law. He could
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: have like, he's like, I'm not gonna hold you. He
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: says sexual harassed or like sexual something you said, like
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: you're a sexual whatever he said, but the guy was like, no,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: I'm not. He calls him a sex offender, I think,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: and he's right, but then he's like, but I can't
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: I can't hold you. I'm like, but you literally can
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: you just correctly stated the crime he's committing. And then
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: later on when like Jake calls him back, it's like
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: talking his fucking Q and on bullshit. The detective is like, oh,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: it's if it isn't Hollywood's biggest sex offender. And I'm like,
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: just arrest him, Like what do you mean? I just like,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: at every turn, At every turn, Jake makes it increasingly
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: harder to root for him, you know what I mean,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Like he's not really someone. It's just in the beginning
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I feel bad, this guy got cheated
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: on right in front of his face. And then you
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: as the more you go on, you're just like, oh,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: he's terrible. Yeah, I have a whole thing about that.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: So the cop is questioning Jake, and this is when
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: they start referring to the creepy stalker killer guy as
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: the Indian because he appears to be an indigenous man.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: I didn't even think about that. The first thing I
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: noticed about the creepy guy that they made him very ugly,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: like like his face was like melting off, and so
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: I thought it was funny, like, oh, they're making the
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: evil guy ugly, surprise, surprise, But then to call him
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: like an Indian was so random to me. I was like, what,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: that's what you were going for this whole time, like
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: a tan leathery man. Right. It almost felt like the
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: movie tell on itself because I agree with you, like
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: they like, it's an extremely offensive thing to say. And
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: also I was like if they hadn't said that, I
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: never in a million years would have guessed that that
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: was what exactly they had been going for. So it
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: makes it like twice as bad. And then it's like
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: a fucking horror movie proce any spoiler alert, but like
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: you have to watch this movie. So so we learned that.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Then we see Jake watching porn and he sees because
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: like the movie, then just as like, well, this murder happened.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Let's have Jake watch porn like what to get over
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: it to console himself, right, because he loves peeping. He
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: loves watching. So he sees a performer named Holly Body
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: played by Melanie Griffith, doing the exact same sexy dance
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: in the porn film as Gloria was doing in her
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: house while Jake was peeping on her, and he's like,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, why is that the same dance? So
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: he goes and tries to get close to Holly, which
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: he does by auditioning for a porn role opposite Holly.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: He gets the part. They do a scene together and
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: then Jake pretends to be this rich porn producer and
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: he acts like he wants to cast Holly in his movie,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: and again he's really starting to look like Bill Maher
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: At this point. It's starting to get pretty disturbing. And
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: it's also like, like, I don't know, Jake sucks so
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: bad as a character, But like once he got to
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: the point where he was pretending to I was like,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: what is even his end game? What is he doing?
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: The movie got so confusing for me at this point
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: because I just could not follow the jump between this
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: murder and then suddenly he's like, I'm a porn actor.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Now I'm like I couldn't follow his motive, Like why
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: is he doing that? I didn't understand at first. And
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: also I hated I really hated that they made him
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: like into a good lover because like she was like
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: really into it, and just like I really disliked that.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: But yeah, he also gets like ten shades darker when
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: he becomes this Holliway producer, which I think is really weird.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: It's like a tan, like a Hollywood tan. He keeps
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: getting creepier and creepier. So he's like, I want to
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: put you in my movie. I also want to hire
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: you for a private performance. So she goes to this
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: place where he's been staying and then he's like, by
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: the way, I'm not a porn producer. There's no movie
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: that I'm trying to cast you in. What I need
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: to know is did someone hire you to dance in
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: the house across the way? And she reluctantly tells him yes,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: it was her dancing, and that Sam is the guy
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: who hired her to put on this little show, knowing
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: Jake would be watching it through the telescope. So Jake
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: starts to piece together that Sam set up Jake to
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: be the witness to this murder. He wanted Jake to
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: watch the neighbor woman and hired Holly Body to be
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: a body double for Gloria, and that basically, Sam, whose
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: real name is Alexander Ravel a k a. Gloria's his
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: wife or no, her husband, he wanted to kill his wife, Gloria,
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: so he made sure Jake witnessed someone else committing the
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: murder so that no one would suspect Alexander ravel While
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: that this all kind of works out for him. Yeah, yeah, truly.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: So Jake is figuring all of this out. But Holly
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: is pissed that Jake lied to her and lured her
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: there under false pretenses, so she storms out, but oh no,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: she gets abducted by the creepy guy, the murderer. So
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: Jake goes after her to save her, and then he
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: comes upon them in a reservoir. The creepy guy is
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: digging a grave to dump Holly body into. How do they?
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: How do he find him? How did they? How did
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: he find there? She was like running on foot from
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: the cops. Right suddenly he knows where they are. I
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know that is a plot hole.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: So but he finds them and Jake scuffles with the
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: murderer um and he turns out to be Sam a
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: k a. Alexander Revel, wearing a mask of apparently an
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: indigenous person because again they keep calling him the Indian.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: But he's wearing this like fake prosthetic mask that Jake
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: rips off of him, and it's revealed that he is
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: Sam a k a. Alexander Ravel, and that he had
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: just been wearing this mask every time that we saw
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: that character. Then Jake ends up in the grave. He
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: can't get out because of his claustrophobia, but then he
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: has this like fantasy about how he's back on the
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: set of the Vampire movie and he's able to overcome
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: his claustrophobia in that moment and he's able to get
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: out of the grave, but then Alexander's dog attacks. There's
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: also a very anti dog agenda in this movie that
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: I did not appreciate every dog, and also if you
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: read the movie correctly, it is a good dog agenda,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: because all the dogs are like, let's kill Jake Scully,
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: let's get him, let's get rid of him. He's dogs things, yes,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: but the dog knocks the bad guy into like the
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: water at the reservoir, and then Jake helps Holly out
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: of the grave and the dog dies with him. Right,
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: the dog is just in the water now maybe dead um.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: And then Jake helps Holly out of the grave, but
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: she's like, you're sick, you're a necrophiliac. And then she
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: gets back into the grave and then just sits there
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: and he's like, fine, stay in there if you do.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: You know though, that's how you know you've really found
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: a vile person. If you're like I would rather literally
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: hang in this grave then go to safety with you,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: So goodbye, And that's how the scene ends. That's how
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: he's like, are you go? And then right, and then
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: we cut away. It's like maybe, and then we cut
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: away to Jake on set of the Vampire movie. He
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: has apparently been hired back to play the part, and
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: they're shooting a scene where the woman who is in
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: the scene with him has a body double for the
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: shots of her breasts. So, just when you thought there
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: couldn't be any more l gays cinematography in this movie,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: the movie ends with just a long shot of the
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: body doubles bare breasts the longest the longest shot on
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: a boob I've ever seen in the movies ever, truly,
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: and then the body double and the actor in this
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: scene who's playing opposite Jake is being murdered actively by
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: this vampire that Jake is playing. So that's how the
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: movie ends, and we're like, who, I do think it's
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: funny as a vampire. He has blonde slipped back here,
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: so I think it's even more kind of Bill Murray
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: but was better makeup. But I also think you skipped
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: over something. There was a scene that I had to replay.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: But it's the musical on the set of the porn shoot. Yes,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: there's suddenly relaxed by what's I don't know who's. It
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: just starts blasting and it's the band. It's the band
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: who sings the song is performing. Maybe one of the
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: only parts that I did like, Yeah, I like that part.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: I was like, whoa poor musical? Okay, I'm doubt But
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: it's also confusing because because you realize that it's part
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: of the porn movie that is being shot that Jake
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: is in, but that's not clear for a while, so
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: it just seems like Jake is just like in the
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: sex club wearing glasses and there's someone singing directly at
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: him even and I'm like, is this a fantasy? Is
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: this what is happening? Is this like him going to
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: a sex club for research? Like it's not clear what's happening.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: And then you're like, oh, I guess this is part
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: of the porn movie. Sure, but you don't see the
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: cameras until the actual sex scene. So it's like, what anyways,
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: a little thirty seconds though or something. I really enjoyed music.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: It is fun. If I saw that without contacts for
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: what the movie was, I'd be like, yeah, yeah, looks
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: like a cool movie. So that is body double. Let's
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: take another break and we will come back to discuss.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: And we're back, all right, So where shall we? I
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: think that maybe starting with some a little bit of
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: diploma context will like kind of set up the rest
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: of the discussion, because I do feel like there are
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: people who get I mean, I feel like this is
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: true of all like you tour direct tools, but like
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: I feel like this like this group of guys specifically,
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: people really get their holes get all tense if you
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: don't love it, which we've been dealing with this for years,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: but I just wanted to start by contextualizing where this
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: comes in his filmography and what he said about the movie,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: because I do feel like it kind of like neutralizes
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: any film boy like it's actually good. I'm like, I
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: don't even think Brian de Palma thinks that, but go off.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: So this movie comes in like, like you said, she
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: comes right after Scarface. It also comes um within a
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: few years of his other major Hitchcock rip off, which
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: is called Dressed to Kill. I haven't seen it. I
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: have seen that very Hitchcock roop off. So it's basically
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: a rip off of Psycho that there's been a lot
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: of discussion around. It's very, very problematic. You should have
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: to watch it eventually just to understand how weird it is. Right, Like,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: there's there's a very like it's about trans person who
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: is a psychopath murderer. So you know, look, there's been
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: that's a separate episode Michael Caine. Ok Right, that movie
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: gets brought up in disclosure. I think, ye, yes, Okay,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: that's how I know it. Okay, yes, exactly. So that's
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: like the era that he's in at this time, and
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: I think we should just cover Dressed to Kill at
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: a different time because we don't really have the bandwidth
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: for it today. But so that's like sort of where
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: he would like he's he's trying it not to be
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: like completely reductive, but it just seems like he's kind
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: of going for like edge Lord Hitchcock vibe at this
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: phase in his career, like post production Code Hitchcock, where
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: he's like, well, I can make a Hitchcock movie, but
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: now really sexy and really like gratuitous nudity and violence
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: and violence toward women. I can make it any phobic
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: you want, transphobic, homophobic, yeah, misogynistic, whatever you whatever you want.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: It's you can do that now. Um not not us,
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: like I mean, not advocating for the fucking production code,
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: but like this is like kind of was where he
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: was at at this time. I feel like it's interesting
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: where a lot of movies we talked about from this
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: era are considered to be very sexist in retrospect, this
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: movie was also considered very sexist when it came out,
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: which I think is like kind of unusual, especially, I
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: mean whatever, We've covered a million movies from the eighties
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: and nineties. I mean, I'm surprised to hear that, right,
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: like you, I honestly, I don't trust people from the eighties.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: But there was a big backlash to this movie when
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: it came out. It was not a hit. It was
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: not reviewed well at the time. So let me see okay,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: So Vincent Canby of The New York Times says, de
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: Palma quote again goes too far, which is the reason
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: to see it. It's sexy and explicitly crude, entertaining and
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: sometimes very funny. And then he just says, like it's
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: a sexiest rip off of Hitchcock. So it gets like
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: very very mixed reviews. The biggest point of contention when
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: the movie comes out is the drill scene, which we'll
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: talk about, but like that gruesome a murder of a
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: woman who we barely know and barely get to hear
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: speak also bothered viewers in the eighties. It sparked a
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: lot of feminist backlash as well. But that was what
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: bothered them the most. I didn't realize. I mean, I
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: know it's bad, but if that's the one that the
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: thing that bothered them the most, it's kind of weird
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: to me. But he continued, Yeah, that that is like
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: where the focus of most of the criticism. Like there's
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: a lot of people that were like they lost me
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: at the drill and not at the Peeping Thompson, which
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: I feel like is the exactly Yeah, the drill isn't
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: exactly like misogynistic per se. It's like gross but right, Okay.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: So and then as far as what de Palma says
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: about this stuff, I mean, he's like I remember watching
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: this came out maybe like five or six years ago.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: There was a documentary about his work where he was interviewed.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: It was made by like Noah Bomboch, and he was
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: asked about how he frames and portrays women in his
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: work because a lot of people, I think correctly think
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: that he's really bad at it. Uh, and what he now,
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: So de Pauma is kind of well, I'll just read
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: the quote, but like kind of deflective and like the
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: sort of thing where you're like you can tell and
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: like someone's been asked the same question and they like
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: maybe secretly know they're wrong and they're like, oh, this
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: question again, and it's like, yeah, you've never answered it.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: Um Okay. So here's what he said a couple of
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: years ago to Entertainment Weekly about body double. Specifically, he says, quote,
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: I've been dealing with this all my career. Fortunately now
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: Quentin Tarantino has to deal with it, so I don't
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: have to deal with it anymore. Violence and women. He's
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: the director who has the biggest persona in that area.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: In fact, we had a conversation about it once, which
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: was funny. I say the same thing over and over again.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: If I can create a sequence where you're gazing at
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: a woman or following a woman, it seems to me
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: like a basic building block of cinema. I think it
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: was Jean Luke Goddard who said the history of cinema
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: is men photographic women. I mean, look at advertising. Every
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: magazine cover is a woman. It draws the gaze of
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: a man and the gaze of a woman who's looking
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: at what she's wearing. We look at women all the time,
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: look at the red carpet and can all they do
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: is take pictures of women, and it dominates the coverage.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: It's so obvious to me. It's not thing I discovered. Unquote.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: So I feel like he is like pretty blatantly like, yeah,
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: everyone's sexist, and that's why I am like, that's kind
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: of like what a good defense. I mean, I just
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: looked up. I was honest Wikipedia, I was curious about
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: like his romantic life. Nothing weird there. But there is
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: a quote that I'm seeing on Wikipedia because he responded
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: to these accusations saying, I'm always attacked for having an erotic,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: sexist approach, chopping up women, putting women in peril. I'm
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: making suspense movies. What else is supposed to happen to them? Yes,
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: I yeah, that's another one. I thought like he's extremely
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: like learning about his attitude towards the subject, maybe like
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: the movie even less because I thought, like, I mean,
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: there's nothing to be said for being openly misogynistic. But
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: it is a little bit surprising to hear someone not
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: even bothered to make up a weird lie about it.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: I guess I appreciate that he's like, yeah, I'm sexist,
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: you could believe it. But and a lot of people
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: take it take it which is but people think it's
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: like this reflective self conscious awareness thing. That's the thing
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: that that that is most of his defense for other
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: from other people anyway. But right, so yeah, like all
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: the all the defense I was reading of this movie
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: rest on Brian de Palma being aware of things that
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: he is saying he doesn't care about. So I just
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: feel like, you know whatever, it's a movie, think whatever
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: you want. It's not a particularly influential movie, and I'm
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: happy for that. But yeah, I feel like he's basically
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: given you all the information you need. He's given us
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: all the clues Mr police Man, Mr Policeman, much like
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: Jake Scully. So anyways, that's that's the context of the movie.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: And it made me really um dislike Brian de paul
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: personally seriously, right, because so this movie can basically just
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: be summarized as a movie about a man leering at
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: a woman without her knowledge or consent, following stalking, eaves
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: dropping on this woman, stealing her underway, like all this stuff.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: And of course this lends to a lot of leering
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: male gaze cinematography, maybe more so than in any movie
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: I've ever seen, which, like you could argue, matches up
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: with the leering and peeping that Jake is doing. So
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: that's why the choice is made. But like that just
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: me like, you just made a movie about a man leering,
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: and that's you made a movie about a sex offender, right,
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: and why are you doing that without making any actual commentary,
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: you're just following a sex offender sefender, like right, a
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: sex offender who is like certain he's not a sex offender,
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: which the movie does not do very much to push
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: back on. I feel like the most of the movie
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: does is have the detective repeatedly be like, what's up,
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: sex offender and in a few moments with hot with
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: Holly where she is correctly like, you need to get
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: away from me, but like, but I don't. I still
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: think the movie is essentially like I don't know. It
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: seems like the movie is kind of behind him definitely,
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: because I think when the cop challenges him and calls
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: him a sex offender and a pervert and a peeping
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: tom and all that stuff, I think this is the
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: movie just framing the cop as being an obstacle for
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: the protagonist who we are supposed to be rooting for,
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: more than the movie actually making any commentary on stalkery
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: sex offender behavior. Because again, this character who is stalking
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: and and peeping and doing all man or of other
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: horrible things, this is the guy we're supposed to be
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: rooting for, and even though he's doing the same exact things,
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: what the antagonist is doing. It's because Jake's intentions are
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: like quote unquote pure and like to keep a woman
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: safe and like all this stuff. It's actually fine that
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: he's a stalker according to the movie, and like you
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: mentioned Stream, like the movie does all these things to
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: frame Jake in such a way that we are meant
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: to sympathize with him, because, yeah, he got his heartbroken
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: by his cheating girlfriend, he got fired from the movie
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: that he's on. He has childhood trauma and claustrophobia, like
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: all of these things that are there to make the
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: audience empathize and sympathize with him. And he is like
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: trying to save women in peril from this quote unquote
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: evil Indian and he's this you know, quote unquote safe
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: white man, and there's a whole conversation to be had
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: about that. But he has these intentions of, oh no,
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: I'm only stalking to save this woman from this other stalker,
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: and that's what the whole movie is predicated on. And
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: I do hate it. Yeah, I think, yeah, I think
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: two things. One, he gets everything he wants in the end,
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: so obviously it's like you're meant to root for this
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: person that like gets his career back. Also, Holly is
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: on set when he is shooting this, so it's like,
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: presumably they've made up. Maybe they're even fucking I don't know.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: Oh wait, I didn't even notice that. Yeah, she's there. Yeah.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: And the other thing is it's not like novel, but
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: two people can be creeps, and if one is ugly,
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: that's the bad guy, you know what I mean, Like,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: I think someone not being like hideous and being white
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: and like kind and quotes looking like I think that
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: gets such a pass. And because the other guy is
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: like hideous to look at, it's obvious to be like, oh,
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: that is the bad guy. And I think that is
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: where some people's wires get cross because they're like, well,
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: that guy, he looks like a good person. He's trying
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: to protect her. But if he looked ugly, you want
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: to think that, right, And it's like it's the it's
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: the Steve bushemy principle. It's the effect. And it's also
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: like I don't know, Like again, I just don't see
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: the argument for like this being commented on in the
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: movie because it's like he wins in the end, and
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: it's like, I I don't know, I mean I try
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: to like engage. Yeah, like he he ends up fine,
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: even though, and then there's this kind of like bizarre,
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: complicated like interaction with once he gets involved in the
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: porn industry. I feel like it's almost like conflating what
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: Jake does, which is sex crimes, with the porn industry,
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: where there are certainly ethical issues and like there's you know,
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: plenty of reporting about how performers are not kept as
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: safe as they need to be, and there's certainly a lot,
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: but it's it's just I feel like generally casts the
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: entire industry is like hedonistic and debaucherous and the same
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: thing as being a peeping tom essentially, and like that
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: is like super reductive, especially when like Holly is like
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: the only character of any gender in the movie who
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: seems to have like a shred of dignity, Like she's
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: I really liked when because she's brought into Jake's life
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: under false circumstances, like he is lying to her. But
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: in that first scene where they go to the bar
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: together after the shoot, she like states her like baseline
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: right away, and she's like, this is how much money
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: I make, this is what I will do, This is
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: what I won't do. These are non negotiable things, what
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: do you think? And like that's kind of your introduction
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: to who she is, and so of all the things
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: in this movie, I fucking really don't like. I did
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: like that she, I mean, she sees Jake for who
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: she is, even if the movie doesn't share that opinion
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: or whatever. And she also like knows what she is
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: willing to do, would not do, Like she's very like
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: firm and who she is. And again it's like it's interesting,
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: and again it's like whatever, I know, we can't say
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: like what the movie's opinion is explicitly. But I liked
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: seeing porn star, you know, be portrayed as someone who
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: is like in control of their life and like, because
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: that's like very often the case, and I feel like
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: they're rarely portrayed that way in media. And but then
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: every other character outside of Holly the movie is not
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: portrayed that way at all, and so you're just like what, um,
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: I liked Holly a lot. I didn't like that she
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: appears to stay in Jake's life after, because, like you're saying,
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: the last time you see her, she's hiding from him
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: in a grave. So like under what circumstances did they
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: overcome that? I don't know, but I liked that she
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: told them to funk off kind of at every appropriate term,
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: But then the movie forces them together in some regard
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: in the end. Anyways, I think it was confusing, though,
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: because at first I thought of it as a continuation
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: of his fantasy, because it was because we we had
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: just seen the fantasy of him being able to do
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: the coffin scene, to be able to get out of
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: a grave, and so part of me was like, is
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: this a continuation of that timeline or like what he wants?
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: Like I wondered that too, But the movie doesn't set
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: up enough of a precedent for him having these fantasies
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: really that it was clear whether or not that was
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: a fantasy, because there's that other scene that we already
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: talked about where we're like, is this a fantasy or no,
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: where he's kissing Gloria on the beach, and that turns
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: out not to be a fantasy. So I don't know,
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: so unclear. It's confusing. It's and the way okay, and
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: then Glorious character, as we've been talking about throughout, I
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: can't make as their tails of what's going like truly
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: written to be oblivious. It's just like a waif, like
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: hot white, rich lady who cannot We were just talking
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: about this, I mean in a very different movie. We're
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: talking about the forty year old virgin, but like a
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: characters who is like so aimless and underwritten in horny
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: that they don't notice home intruders, like right behind the door.
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: She glides by him at every moment. He's just like
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: there's one moment where she answers the phone and he's
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: literally like two ft behind her and she just doesn't
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: see him because her back is turned. It's it's so bizarres.
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: And it's the same thing with Jake when he's standing
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: right behind her, like he's like looming above her on
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: the balcony at the beach shortly before they're making out
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: for no reason, and you're just that is really started,
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: that trope is really starting to bother me. Um, hot
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: woman with no spatial awareness, and you're just like, oh
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: my god. That is like most marginalized people are like
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: hyper aware of who's around them. I would have to be.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: You have to be for your own safety. This is
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: something that I've talked about a lot especially in horror movies,
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: where I feel like I'm victim blaming because I'm like,
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: how did you not notice this? Or why did you
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: do this thing to get you killed? It's not a
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: real person, it's a Brian de Palma person, right, But
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: it's always characters, female characters written by men, who are
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: written in such a way that they're oblivious because it
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: serves the story and not because that's how anyone actually
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: behaves in real life. The same thing with like the
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: she leaves like an eight inch gap in the curtain
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: of the dressing room, right, you wouldn't do not because
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: anyone does that, but because the movie needs to allow
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: Jake to peep on her as she's putting a new
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: pair of underwear on. Like, I just I hate and
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: I and I hate I hate that I am doing
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: this kind of victim blame me thing, But it's not.
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: It's not victim blame me if it's written that way, right,
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: Like the men are writing them in a way that
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: they have sperienced life. Yeah, I still always feel weird
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: about it, but yeah, it's it's like I'm blaming these
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: female characters who don't actually exist and who are underwritten
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: by men. Who don't know how women actually behave and
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: don't know that we are constantly on guard for our
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: own safety at every waking moment. Terrified of them. Yeah
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: we're not even or like yeah that it's like not
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: that we're terrified of them, We're actually in love with them,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: which is one of the fucking scariest things you can
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: perpetuate in your mood. Like I know a million people
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: who have experienced ship like that of like a creepy
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: person who like is convinced that you know exactly who
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: they are and you're just like playing hard to get
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: and someday you're going to be together and it's gonna
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: be very romantic and cool. And it's like that is
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: just like not really a thing that happens, but perpetuating
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: it put women in danger all the time. Like I
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: don't know, I've been in situations like that, like and
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: it's it's always very I can't believe that wasn't a
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: fantasy sequence. Like both from like a writing perspective and
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: from like a bectelcast perspective, it is just like what
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: the fuck like And it also like I don't even
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: really know that it like moves the plot forward in
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: any way for that to be true, the movie could Yeah,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: like the movie could play out the exact same way
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: if that didn't happen totally, yeah right, Like, but I
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: think it added to this illusion or this lie that
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: he's just like amazing lover that women want to fuck,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like I painted that element
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: of his character very very much, right, because it just
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: it further just establishes him as a likable and empathetic
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: character or a character who we are supposed to empathize
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: with because oh, if he look at him, go, he's
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: he's a sexpot and he makes women come and isn't
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: that cool? And it's like, first of all, no, he doesn't,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: and secondly, he's a fucking creep. Right Yeah, It's just
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: it's so frustrating and yeah, whatever, Like I'm trying to
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: think of other like I mean, I mean it's interesting
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: because I feel like, not even that much happens in
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: this movie. It's two hours long, but there's just it's
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: all very At least an hour of it is just
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: shots of Jake following a woman like there's very little,
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: and then she's brutally murdered, which seride, I agree with you,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: like because I like, I mean, look, I'm I'm a
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: soft franchise head. I like to see someone die in
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: a brutal way. I don't like to see a character
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: I know fucking nothing about who I've never seen make
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: a shred of sense in the entire movie brutally murdered
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: with a drill. But you also kind of don't see
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: her brutally murdered with a drill. I think it is
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: far more disturbing to see her followed around, Like I
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: felt more nervous watching herp followed for an hour by
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: multiple people then watching her get murdered by a drill.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: And I don't think that's the unpopular opinion, unfortunately, because
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: one of those things happens all the time. I don't know,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: peeping truly fucking terrifies me because you know what happens
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: all the time. Yeah, you can also say the drill
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: is like phallic as well, which is also like another layer,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: Like I'm sure some film studies professor is talking about
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: that right now, exactly. I don't think this film even
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: had a chance, or like gave itself a chance of
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: passing the Beachdale test. Like there's two women that we
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: see in the movie. One of them is very like
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: has two words that she says and the other one
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: and then gets murdered. Yeah, and then the other one
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: isn't isn't introduced until an hour into the movie, and
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: she oh, she does. Well, we'll get to this. But
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: the other major topic of discussion for this movie is
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: and kind of going back to what you were discussing
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: Sharene about the well, one of these stalkers is quote
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: unquote safe because he's classically handsome, and then also is
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: he sorry, but he's not hideous. I don't think he's handsome,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: but he's like not he's he looks like a good guy,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: like in quotes you know what, right, he is not
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: being others like down slanted like puppy eyes or whatever.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: He does have like a kind looking face. He looks
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: like a little dog to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a Bilmar.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: I think I think I'm just reacting to him looking
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: like Bill Mar. Yeah, that it is. It continues to
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: be very distracting, but the audience is he's framed in
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: such a way by the movie, by the filmmakers to be,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: you know, the handsome, safe white guy. And then the
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: other stalker who the movie telegraphs to the audience is
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: evil and he's the stalker you have to be scared of. Uh.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: And then he has come to known as the Indian,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: and for a large chunk of the movie, we are
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: led to believe that an unnamed Indigenous man is a
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: creepy stocker murderer, which obviously has very racist and harmful
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: implications that you know, like as a woman and as
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: a white woman especially, right, that's the type of person
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: that you have to be afraid of, these non white
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: strangers who lurk in the shadows, even though statistically, and
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: we've talked about this all the time, not the women
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: who are survivors of assaulter who are stocked and murdered
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: are usually done so by people they know, and often
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: it's their own partners, which turns out to be true
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: in this movie because the Indian quote unquote is just
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: her husband in a mask. But the movie is like
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: not operating on a high enough level to like be
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: able to land that point, right. It could have been
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: an interesting point because I feel like that scene with
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: the detective, there's just like so much going on there.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: But I feel like one of the reasons that he
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: lets Jake go other than the fact that he doesn't
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: care about women experiencing harassment and murder obviously, is that
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: he is, you know, like many cops and just many
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: people in general. He's like, well, normally I would go
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: after the husband on this one, but you said that
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: it was an indigenous man, and I believe that. And
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: it's like, well, why do you believe that even though
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: there's literally no proof of it, because cops are racist,
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: And it's like that could have been a point that
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: the movie could have made, but it isn't because it's
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: like everyone I kept wanting to think that this could
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: be making some sort of commentary, but it's just like
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: it just never ever was because when you hear that
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: character being referred to as the Indian, it's accepted as
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: a truth across the movie, across the cake, to the
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: point where like even the guy wearing this mask refers
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: to himself as the Indian, and so you're just like, Okay,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: so this is just something that the writers of the
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: movie believe. Is like, it's it's not making a point
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: that like this character is racist, and that is why
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: this is being accepted as the truth. It's just like
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: perpetuating a racist Trump, but like, yeah, you're right there,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: they didn't give it a reason. Like the movie as
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: it is now, there is no reason he needs to
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: be Indian, not that he needs a reason, but if
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: he was, if it was pointed out to be a
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: larger commentary, at least there would be like an indication
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: of why they even had to make him not white
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: or something. But the fact that it's just like sprinkled
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: in and just presented as yeah, like you said, like
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: all the characters think it's truth immediately, no one questions it.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: It's just so disturbing. I just it's almost as if
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: like the writers just think this is true. Yeah, the
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: movie is operating on the assumption and that the audience
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: will have no trouble believing that, yeah, some random stalker
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: guy unknown to the victim is just peeping on her,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: stalking her, and then will later kill her because he
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: is non white, and it's just like would have been true.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: Like it's so I just I mean, I'm just speaking
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: of like the races of ofies America. Like I'm just saying,
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: like I don't even think that this would have been
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: a particularly offensive take in right, right, And yeah, I
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: think the movie is just operating on that. Well, of
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: course the audience will be like, yeah, it was this right,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: like he did witness this, you know, this indigenous man
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: murdering this woman, because that's how little audiences of the
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: eighties thought of non white people. So that fucking sucks.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: I apologize for me. Just watch this movie. I just
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: need to say that I had no idea what this
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: was about. I just thought it would be a fun ride.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, maybe it was worth it for
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: that poor musical scene. But no, don't apologize. I mean
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: we were going to cover it eventually, and we've gotten
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: this request a bunch of times. It's always kind of
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: fun when we cover a movie from our popular request
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: list and then we immediately realize why people have been
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: requesting it because they're like, oh, they're gonna hate this.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: You're like, oh, that's not nice. But yeah, we sure did.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: We sure did hate it. I mean, my curiosity is satisfied.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: I've been curious about this movie. I know what it
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: is now, and I will forget about it, hopefully in
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: a week, you know what I mean, Like, I, yeah, fortunately,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: I don't think this movie is going to stick with me. No, Yeah,
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: does anyone have anything else they want to talk about.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: Um No, But I mean to your point, though, it
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: is nice to watch a movie that was not bad
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: and then immediately talk about how much how bad it
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: is what other people? You know what I mean? Like,
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: it's like a nice to like bash a movie and
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: then move on. Other than it's sitting with you and
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: lingering thank you for the podcast, is what I'm saying.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: I love hating movies. It's I love hating movies almost
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: almost as much as I love loving movies. So I'm
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: not mad about this. I love watching a terrible movie
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: that I hated and absolutely dunking on it. So Melanie
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: Griffith deserved so much better, truly bless her. Yeah, And
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: so this movie, like it's is also I think, an
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: entirely white movie on top of having a very racist
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: plot point. I don't think I saw anyone who wasn't
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: white in Los Angeles on the set. There's one black
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: guy that drags him out at the coffin and he's like, oh,
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: get rid of this person. And the black guy is
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: just like obedient and follows the raising a crew member,
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: which I thought was just like, this is the one
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: person of color you put in here? And he's just like,
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know, barely has lines and that he's forgotten about. Yeah,
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: so I just yeah, like this just feels like all
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: the bad tropes associated with this era of filmmaking plus more,
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: which is wild. I really hated this movie and it
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: doesn't pass the Buckteal test. There is a scene where
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: two women and I think the other woman is named
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: it's that scene where Jake is with Hollybody. They run
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: into another actor that Jake has met and worked with before.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: They do talk to each other about like a role,
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: but there's a misunderstanding because Holly thinks that the other
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: woman is another porn star. This other actor is a
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: non porn actor and thinks that Holly is a non
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: porn actor and they but they never it never gets
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: cleared up, but they do talk, and I would probably
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: completely forgot about that. Oh no, does that mean it passes.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: I think it might pass because they talk about like
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: movies and acting and roles and stuff. A man gets mentioned,
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: and they're also like, I'm so mad that this passes.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: But it's also like a woman who's we only see
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: in that one scene. Also, you could cut that scene
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: from the movie and it wouldn't really, it wouldn't make
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: a difference. You could cut that scene. Yeah, so it's
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: I guess you could make the argument, but I still
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: say it does also vibes. Sometimes you make a vibes exception.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: But also like, even if this does pass, it doesn't
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: mean that the movie is like any better or a
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: feminist masterpiece or anything like that. It just means that
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: I don't want to give it anything. Just means that
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: Brian to Palma gave one more woman three lines and
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: called it a day. Yeah, it's like and I and
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: and that's inclusion and let me pat myself on the
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: back about it. Progressive hero Brian de Palma, she has
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: darker hair. So diversity is a girl as a woman
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: with darker hair. That's what that is. Um, So that's
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: a that's the back, Dilton. How about our nipple scale
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: where we rate the movie? You saw a lot of
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: nipples in this movie too. We do see a lot
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: of nipples, and yet I don't have any for it. No,
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: because we write the movie on a scale of zero
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: to five nipples based on how we think the movie
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: does when looking at it through an intersectional feminist lens.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: And I I would give this movie zero nipples same
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: because of everything we've talked about, it's just a movie
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: that sort of revels in a woman being stalked and
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: peeped on and murdered and again more male gaze cinematography
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: than I've seen in any other movie. And that's like,
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: that's a bar to clear. That is a bar to clear.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: It's all like leering shots, like the longest shot I've
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: ever seen on a boob, like it just I just
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: I've never had so much attention on on boob for
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: so long. And it is like a very like headless
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: woman of Hollywood thing where even though we see that
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: woman's face briefly, it does like tilt down to her
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: chest and lingers there for a very long time. And
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: then the whole rest of the movie is just a
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: woman being leered at through a telescope or a woman
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: being stalked, or a woman being lied to. And that's
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: the premise of the movie. And it's because it's like
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: we have like and this is not like an indictment
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: against movies with erotic themes. There's plenty of like erotic
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: movies that fucking rule. It's just like the way it's
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: bound framed and who's looking at it? Yeah, we just
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: covered bound that that's an erotic movie. The fucking rules.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: That movie's really fun, but it's like, yeah, it's all
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: about like who is looking what are they looking at?
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: And is their consent implied? And in this movie is
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: like no, no, no, no, no, all the way across
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: the board. So that sucks and it's racist and Ura
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: Nipples and I hated it. Zero nipples really had an
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: unfortunate time. I want to give it a half nipple
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: only for Melanie Griffith and like her. I did like
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: her character. Yeah, it wasn't totally terrible, but that she's
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: the only reason I would even consider giving this movie
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: any praise. It's bad. It is a bad movie. Yeah.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: And it's so long. It felt it so long. It's
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: very and it feels longer than it is because so
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: much of it is just like boring shots of a
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: woman being like people walking and one person following another
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: person while they're both walking, and it's like snooze. The
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: last thing I'll say is that uh diploma did want
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: a porn actress to play the part of Holly originally,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: which I think is like actually pretty interesting, but then
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: the producers Slash Studio were like, absolutely not, we won't
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: release the movie, which is just like another indication of
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: the added towards porn actors at this time. Um, but
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: he did have someone in mind, and like, I guess
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: like I had the idea for this movie when he
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: was interviewing Janice Dickinson's body double from UM, what's that
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: movie that we were talking about that's really really transphobic
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: and dressed to kill? Dressed to kill? Um, But yeah,
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: he did want to cast a porn actor, but then
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: um Mr Hollywood said no, No. I'm honestly surprised that
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: in Body Double, Melanie Griffith's character wasn't written to also
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: be in on this like murderous scheme, which is something
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: that would have like further demonized, you know, sex work
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: and porn work and stuff. And I'm I'm surprised that
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: didn't happen, which is just indicative of how movies like this,
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: especially from this era, viewed sex work and pornography. And
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: then I think it is like a little complicated by
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: the fact that because Jake is so awful, but the
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: movie doesn't think Jake is awful, and Jake ends up
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: becoming a porn actor. So I feel like the movie
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: isn't anti porn really like but but that's like a
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: fucking weird math problem that I don't really want to do.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: Absolute last thing because I thought this was funny. I
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: was like, was this movie nominated for any awards? And
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: I feel like there was some justice here because Di
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: Palma was nominated for the Golden Raspberry Award for Worst Director,
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: Oh my god for this movie. Yes, and Melanie Griffith
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: was nominated for a Golden Globe okay for playing Hollie.
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: That is justice. Yeah, so I was like, Okay, this
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: movie has like a seventy six on Rotten Tomatoes, but
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: it also really was a flop at the box office,
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: so that makes me feel good. Yeah, I don't think
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: it's I think it is like a hot take to
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: like this movie then and now, um, and we we
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: don't have a hot take, and I think we have
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: the general take, which is that, um, I don't want
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: to ever think about it again. Chervine, thank you so
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: much for coming back and breaking because this movie. Oh
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: you're so welcome, Jamie and Caitlin. This was fun though.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: Thanks for thanks for having me back. I'll come back anytime.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: Maybe I won't choose the movie, but no, this was good.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: I'm glad that we got to vent about it because
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: I had so many I had watched it last night
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: and I was just like having so many thoughts and
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: I was like, what was that? What did I just see? It? Is?
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: It is very cathartic to air your grievances about a
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: movie that you hate. It really was, and I feel
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: like now we can forget about Brian to Palmer for
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: another two years exactly, and that's always a blessing. Where
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: can people follow you online and check out your stuff
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: and plug away? I'm on social media Twitter and Instagram.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: My Twitter is shiro Hero six six six in my
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: Instagram is just Shiro Hero. I'm making a very big
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: effort and I'm doing really well and not being online
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: very much, so I'm really looming a lot of things.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: But I occasionally post up here and there if I'm
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: spiraling and depressed. So come along join the ride. You
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: can follow us on those places as well, Instagram and
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: Twitter at Bechtel Cast. You can subscribe to our Patreon
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: a k a. Matreon where we do to bonus episodes
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: every single month, plus access to our our back catalog
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: of one hundred over one hundred episodes. This month, it's
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: Minions March Baby, and you know what that means. We're
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: covering Despicable Me and the Forty year Old Virgin, So
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: it's actually, um there's two options. You can call it
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: Medians March, or you can call it Gruella Steville. Or
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: you can call it Corrella Steville because it's Steve Correll
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: playing um fucked up people. So that so if that
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: doesn't sell you on it, I don't know what will will.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: You can also get our verch at t public dot
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: com slash the Bechtel Cast, and if you guys don't mind,
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: I'm going to actually have my body double switch in
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: for the next episode. Uh. They sound exactly like me,
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: but but they're not me. So it's like a voice
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: double too. It's my voice double. Yeah yeah yeah cool
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: cool yeah, Well I look by