Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Interpol's Paul Banks

Transcript

Interpol's Paul Banks · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

0:15
Speaker 1: Pushkin.
0:20
Speaker 2: While Paul Banks is technically the lead singer of Interpol,
0:22
Speaker 2: he sees himself more as a member of a gang
0:25
Speaker 2: of musicians. Interpol formed in ninety seven after lead guitarist
0:29
Speaker 2: Daniel Kessler invited Paul, who was a student at NYU
0:32
Speaker 2: at the time, to watch the band rehearse. In two
0:35
Speaker 2: thousand and two, Interpol released their era defining album Turn
0:38
Speaker 2: On the Bright Lights, to widespread critical acclaim. At the time,
0:42
Speaker 2: they were lumped together with New York City's emerging indie
0:44
Speaker 2: sleeve's movement with bands like The Strokes and the Yeah
0:47
Speaker 2: Yeah Yeahs. Despite being pigeonholed by critics, the bands surpassed
0:51
Speaker 2: expectations with their sophomore album Antics in two thousand and four,
0:55
Speaker 2: further evolving their sound. September marks the twentieth anniversary of Antics,
1:01
Speaker 2: and to celebrate, Interpol is embarking on an international tour
1:04
Speaker 2: Will they play the album in its entirety? On today's episode,
1:09
Speaker 2: Rose talks to Paul Banks about how he wrote the
1:11
Speaker 2: lyrics to key tracks on Antics. Paul also explains why
1:14
Speaker 2: he hasn't listened to rock music in over twenty years.
1:17
Speaker 2: He also remembers watching a boxing match with John Fuschante
1:20
Speaker 2: and Rizza from Wu Tang and how John forever changed
1:24
Speaker 2: the way Paul thinks about musicality and hip hop. This
1:30
Speaker 2: is broken record liner notes for the digital age.
1:33
Speaker 1: I'm justin Mitchman.
1:35
Speaker 2: Here's Leah Rose's conversation with Paul Banks.
1:39
Speaker 3: Thank you for doing this, Thank you for being here.
1:41
Speaker 3: Curious about antics. So you're about to interpose about to
1:45
Speaker 3: go out on tour and perform the entire album. Have
1:50
Speaker 3: you ever been to any of these shows where a
1:52
Speaker 3: band performs an entire album.
1:55
Speaker 1: I don't think I have. But the first time that
1:58
Speaker 1: I remembered happening that I really wanted to go to
2:01
Speaker 1: was was a while ago, and it was Transam playing
2:04
Speaker 1: Future World in its entirety, And I feel like that
2:08
Speaker 1: was almost ten years ago, and it was like at
2:10
Speaker 1: like Union Pool in Brooklyn, maybe even longer, and so
2:14
Speaker 1: really like actually like the fact that I even remember
2:16
Speaker 1: all of that is because I really wanted to go,
2:19
Speaker 1: so anyway, that maybe predisposed me to feeling okay about it.
2:22
Speaker 1: I think, you know, we've been asked by like non
2:25
Speaker 1: like outlets that are not supportive of the band to like,
2:28
Speaker 1: come and do one of our records, and I've said
2:32
Speaker 1: no because I feel like I don't like this outlet
2:34
Speaker 1: and they're not supportive, and I even take it as
2:37
Speaker 1: a bit of a dig on the rest of our
2:38
Speaker 1: catalog that they're asking us to do this one record.
2:41
Speaker 1: So for them, I said no, But for everybody else,
2:44
Speaker 1: I feel like I actually don't dislike the concept of
2:48
Speaker 1: doing a whole album in a show. I think it's
2:51
Speaker 1: actually like a celebration of, you know, a portion of
2:55
Speaker 1: your catalog, and it's not really a comment on the
2:57
Speaker 1: rest of your catalog, right, But I think the trans
3:01
Speaker 1: Am example kind of got me predisposed to be favorable
3:04
Speaker 1: towards it, and then I think it's like a new
3:07
Speaker 1: thing that's kind of happening now see a lot of
3:09
Speaker 1: bands doing it, and rather than see that as some
3:12
Speaker 1: kind of like gimmick in any way negatively, I actually
3:16
Speaker 1: think it's really cool. And I think in the world
3:18
Speaker 1: of music and the business of music, having like a
3:22
Speaker 1: package to sell or a reason to motivate an audience
3:25
Speaker 1: to kind of like want to come and see a show,
3:27
Speaker 1: I think it's like it's good, good, good for us,
3:30
Speaker 1: good for other bands that have records that people might
3:32
Speaker 1: want to see top to bottom, and I actually enjoy it.
3:35
Speaker 1: And I feel like our fan base loves all of
3:37
Speaker 1: our records, and I think it's fun to just frame
3:40
Speaker 1: an evening around one in particular and just do a
3:43
Speaker 1: top to bottom.
3:44
Speaker 3: Yeah. I saw an old interview with Daniel and the
3:49
Speaker 3: person interviewing him was talking about Interpol's catalog and they
3:53
Speaker 3: said the first two albums are master works, and that
3:57
Speaker 3: sort of made the rest of the discography seems sort
4:03
Speaker 3: of like it wasn't up to par with the first
4:06
Speaker 3: two albums. And I felt exactly like what you were saying,
4:08
Speaker 3: like it was sort of like a dig on all
4:10
Speaker 3: the material, and I felt like it was kind of
4:12
Speaker 3: like not the best way to frame the work. I
4:17
Speaker 3: wonder about like the divide between critics and then the fans. Yeah,
4:23
Speaker 3: do you feel like you have to sort of block
4:25
Speaker 3: out the critical voice sometimes?
4:28
Speaker 1: I mean, I've blocked out the critical voice for fifteen years,
4:32
Speaker 1: I think so. Yeah. But at the same time, like
4:37
Speaker 1: if I was talking to someone that did frame our
4:39
Speaker 1: first two records in that way as being like these are,
4:41
Speaker 1: you know, master works, I don't take any of that
4:43
Speaker 1: stuff personally anymore either. And I think what we were
4:46
Speaker 1: saying before this interview start about kind of like the
4:49
Speaker 1: some humility that comes with age. It's like, I'm just
4:52
Speaker 1: very honored that people care a lot about those first
4:53
Speaker 1: two records, and I understand the way that like a
4:57
Speaker 1: band's first effort, like the first emergence, is always going
5:01
Speaker 1: to have a special place in people's heart. And I
5:04
Speaker 1: remember very keenly, like a lot of the second record
5:06
Speaker 1: was written towards the end of writing our first record,
5:09
Speaker 1: and we had kind of inter band discussions at the
5:12
Speaker 1: time like let's not take a break after the first one.
5:14
Speaker 1: That's like go, go go, and kind of really sort
5:17
Speaker 1: of solidify our entrance on the scene by doing a
5:22
Speaker 1: one to two punch. So I think even from our
5:25
Speaker 1: point of view before Antics even came out, we viewed
5:28
Speaker 1: it as like albums one and two are going to be,
5:30
Speaker 1: you know, this bundle in a way of like us
5:34
Speaker 1: making our entrance and then you know, not having a
5:36
Speaker 1: sophomore slump, but rather kind of like let's really establish ourselves.
5:41
Speaker 1: And at the time, Carlos wanted a big break and
5:44
Speaker 1: it was like we had to kind of wrangle him
5:46
Speaker 1: back to being like, man, this is not the time
5:48
Speaker 1: to stop right now. Let's let's keep going. So anyway,
5:51
Speaker 1: I cherished the fact that people love those first two records,
5:54
Speaker 1: and I think that there is a segment of people
5:55
Speaker 1: that are like, that's where they that's where they started
5:58
Speaker 1: and ended with us. But that's cool too, you know,
6:00
Speaker 1: if you love two records of ours, that's great for me.
6:03
Speaker 1: It's really interesting. Like I you know, read some of
6:05
Speaker 1: the feedback now from our fans on message boards and stuff,
6:08
Speaker 1: and likeur has it's like a new life, and that's
6:11
Speaker 1: like the first record post Carlos, and I think a
6:14
Speaker 1: lot of people that were might talk about the first
6:17
Speaker 1: two as like their own kind of category maybe wouldn't
6:19
Speaker 1: be fans of Elpintur, but our audience is, you know,
6:23
Speaker 1: so anyway, I don't take it personally. I don't take
6:25
Speaker 1: offense to a critic citing one and two is being special.
6:28
Speaker 1: But I prefer listening to the audience, who you know,
6:32
Speaker 1: seem to like all of it.
6:34
Speaker 3: Do you know what's responsible for Elpintour having a new life.
6:38
Speaker 1: It's actually it's not so much a new life. I
6:40
Speaker 1: think it might just be that maybe it's kind of
6:42
Speaker 1: contrarian for like diehard fans to be like I'm I don't,
6:45
Speaker 1: you know, it's not about the first two for me,
6:47
Speaker 1: it's about the fifth, you know, totally. But I also
6:50
Speaker 1: think Alpinor's is a you know, in our catalog. It's
6:52
Speaker 1: a really good record. And I think our fourth one
6:55
Speaker 1: was a It was a great record, but very challenging.
6:58
Speaker 1: It was a breakup record with Carlos, and then the
7:00
Speaker 1: fifth one was sort of us trying to figure out
7:02
Speaker 1: how to do it as a three piece, and I
7:05
Speaker 1: think there was just some magic to it, and I
7:06
Speaker 1: think it's aged well with our audience. But I think
7:09
Speaker 1: all of our records seem to be aging well. It
7:11
Speaker 1: just takes time for people to come around to them.
7:14
Speaker 3: How do you feel in general about talking about lyrics
7:19
Speaker 3: about lyrics that you've written.
7:21
Speaker 1: I don't mind. I just don't know if I have
7:23
Speaker 1: anything very meaningful to say about, you know, if anything,
7:27
Speaker 1: I think I can talk about like why I write
7:30
Speaker 1: lyrics the way I write them, more than like what
7:32
Speaker 1: am I writing about? If that makes sense.
7:36
Speaker 3: Are you conscious yourself what you're writing about or is
7:38
Speaker 3: it more just playing with words and feeling.
7:42
Speaker 1: It's more than just playing with words. But there has
7:45
Speaker 1: definitely been moments where I was of like trying to
7:48
Speaker 1: cultivate an automatic writing process. Like I think technically the
7:53
Speaker 1: term automatic writing comes from the Surrealists, and it has
7:56
Speaker 1: to do with sort of like just like vomiting out thoughts,
7:59
Speaker 1: and I think trying to kind of like stuff a
8:03
Speaker 1: straw into your subconscious and just like get that stuff
8:06
Speaker 1: straight out. And I feel that that phase that I
8:11
Speaker 1: don't even know if I really see myself there now,
8:13
Speaker 1: but that phase where I was really into the automatic
8:15
Speaker 1: writing component, I think it had to do with this
8:18
Speaker 1: idea that like the pure emotion or the pure experience
8:22
Speaker 1: of being a person is going to get a little cheap,
8:25
Speaker 1: and when I try and put it through a prism
8:29
Speaker 1: of language consciously because I'm going to be trying to
8:33
Speaker 1: package it for someone's experience of what I'm saying. Right,
8:37
Speaker 1: I think the true automatic is like just say what
8:40
Speaker 1: the soul is saying. I mean, in the early days
8:43
Speaker 1: I looked at it is that I found most lyrics
8:46
Speaker 1: and most music to be kind of phony, and like
8:49
Speaker 1: it's about kind of trying to package the experiences of
8:53
Speaker 1: life into this artificial sort of sit call me kind
8:56
Speaker 1: of way of like here's a relatable message, or like
8:58
Speaker 1: here's a story I'm going to tell you. And I
9:00
Speaker 1: always felt like my experience of life was like way
9:03
Speaker 1: more chaotic and visceral and emotional, and so I just
9:06
Speaker 1: whether or not it was like something that I was
9:08
Speaker 1: intensely trying to do. There was so much that I
9:09
Speaker 1: wasn't trying not to do, which was like, I don't
9:12
Speaker 1: want to be fake and just say some dumb shit
9:14
Speaker 1: that is supposed to be relatable in some digestible way
9:19
Speaker 1: about this is my experience. It's like life is this
9:22
Speaker 1: huge mystery of like alienation and pain for me and
9:26
Speaker 1: anguish and desire, and it's all a massive fog of chaos,
9:30
Speaker 1: and so why would I write in a way that
9:33
Speaker 1: isn't honest to that reality? Yeah, now, on the highest levels,
9:38
Speaker 1: I will look at someone like Bob Dylan in a
9:39
Speaker 1: song like Spanish Boots of Spanish Leather, which is a
9:43
Speaker 1: series of letters from a woman and a man back
9:47
Speaker 1: and forth where she's going on a vacation there together,
9:50
Speaker 1: and then as she continues writing letters, it becomes clear
9:53
Speaker 1: that she's not coming back. And then his final message
9:56
Speaker 1: in his last letter is he's been telling her the
9:59
Speaker 1: whole time, don't worry about sending me anything. I don't
10:01
Speaker 1: want you to do anything for me, just come home.
10:03
Speaker 1: And then finally when she says I'm not coming home,
10:05
Speaker 1: he says, okay, well, then send me some Spanish boots
10:07
Speaker 1: of Spanish leather. And that shit is fucking unbelievable. So
10:13
Speaker 1: I believe at the highest level you can use language
10:16
Speaker 1: to make very concise messages about the human experience. And
10:19
Speaker 1: maybe I'm just not there. But then I also think
10:21
Speaker 1: it's that I just don't care to do that because
10:24
Speaker 1: I think I like reveling in this sort of chaos
10:27
Speaker 1: version that I come from.
10:31
Speaker 3: Are you satisfied with what you write? Is there anything
10:33
Speaker 3: that you've written that you feel like you've really nailed
10:36
Speaker 3: it and you've been able to express yourself sufficiently or
10:40
Speaker 3: do you feel like it's always like not even close
10:44
Speaker 3: to what you're feeling inside.
10:46
Speaker 1: A couple times I've said things that yeah, I think
10:48
Speaker 1: I'm very happy with Yeah, but you know, but there's
10:52
Speaker 1: never a solution. I think it's maybe just kind of
10:54
Speaker 1: like putting words that are evocative of an experience so
10:57
Speaker 1: closely that someone might feel less alone when they hear it.
11:01
Speaker 3: In your mind, what are sometimes when you've gotten close
11:04
Speaker 3: to where you're you're happy with what you've written, or
11:08
Speaker 3: you feel like you a publish what you set out
11:10
Speaker 3: to express.
11:13
Speaker 1: I mean, if we you know on antics, for instance,
11:15
Speaker 1: the song not Even Jail has always been one that
11:17
Speaker 1: I've been quite proud of. There was a lyric that
11:19
Speaker 1: came up I saw someone comment recently about and I'd
11:22
Speaker 1: forgotten this one, but it was you reach out to
11:26
Speaker 1: emptiness until the reaching out feels empty too. That's off
11:29
Speaker 1: of a song on Marauder. That's to me is like
11:33
Speaker 1: that's a truthful lyric of experience and a feeling that
11:37
Speaker 1: I've had, but it doesn't really provide any solution. It's
11:41
Speaker 1: just kind of like that's a way of talking about
11:43
Speaker 1: depression and like the struggle of being depressed. And so
11:48
Speaker 1: I suppose maybe there's something cheap in that that I'm
11:51
Speaker 1: just doing a snapshot of a feeling and I'm not
11:53
Speaker 1: actually putting it in a larger context or like providing
11:56
Speaker 1: a solution. But I kind of also don't care. I
11:59
Speaker 1: don't really feel responsible. I don't feel a responsibility to
12:02
Speaker 1: do better with my lyrics. I think I just do
12:05
Speaker 1: it for my own satisfaction and benefit. And again all
12:09
Speaker 1: so like because I have this view about like what
12:11
Speaker 1: language is. Sometimes I even just kind of find it
12:15
Speaker 1: kind of funny that, like, you know, like every argument,
12:18
Speaker 1: every side of any discussion, I feel like I can
12:21
Speaker 1: always sort of formulate like a viable counterpoint of like
12:24
Speaker 1: present any argument from any side. And I'm constantly, even
12:28
Speaker 1: in politics, I'm constantly trying to listen to sort of
12:31
Speaker 1: like how the other side puts together their stream of logic,
12:36
Speaker 1: and I'll find like, oh, this is where I feel
12:38
Speaker 1: like it gets disingenuous, but it's not really like but
12:42
Speaker 1: the way they're doing it is like you know, most
12:44
Speaker 1: of the language is true, but then they're kind of
12:46
Speaker 1: like getting deceitful with this little thing. But like a
12:49
Speaker 1: lot of people aren't going to pick up that. That's
12:51
Speaker 1: where they fall into like total bs. So anyway, I
12:55
Speaker 1: find like language just to be this thing that's like
12:57
Speaker 1: can be used for such manipulation, and I sort of
13:00
Speaker 1: feel disdained for participating in the manipulation and the deceit
13:04
Speaker 1: that language can weaponize. And so I think that's also
13:09
Speaker 1: part of why my lyrics are often kind of like
13:12
Speaker 1: they're just like outside of that whole game, Like I
13:13
Speaker 1: don't want to convince you of anything. I don't want
13:16
Speaker 1: to pretend to summarize anything. And also, these words themselves
13:21
Speaker 1: are providing some of the confines to what we're even
13:23
Speaker 1: able to express. So by sort of reshaping how words
13:26
Speaker 1: get put together, it's almost like maybe different ways of
13:29
Speaker 1: thinking can come from that. It's like putting the cart
13:32
Speaker 1: before the horse, like rather than you have the thought
13:35
Speaker 1: and find the language for it, like you find the
13:36
Speaker 1: thought by constructing language, and it's you know that's fun
13:40
Speaker 1: for me.
13:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, how do you get into that state? Like it
13:45
Speaker 3: seems like there would be some sort of like transition
13:49
Speaker 3: that needs to happen from normal life to a place
13:52
Speaker 3: where you're open subconsciously or you're trying to access this
13:56
Speaker 3: part of your brain. Is there something that you do?
14:00
Speaker 3: Is there something you imbibe? Take smoke sit somewhere particular? Like,
14:05
Speaker 3: how do you get into that place?
14:08
Speaker 1: I mean smoke weed? But I don't think it's necessary.
14:13
Speaker 1: I had a large phase, well no, a couple of
14:15
Speaker 1: years where I didn't do anything, and I know my
14:19
Speaker 1: work was I like my work from that phase. I
14:23
Speaker 1: think it's it's not needed. But I do smoke weed.
14:27
Speaker 1: I generally smoke weed when I'm playing music. Or writing music.
14:31
Speaker 1: But the other thing I would say about lyrics that
14:32
Speaker 1: has to do then it comes to answer your question,
14:35
Speaker 1: is that also I found in the first days of
14:39
Speaker 1: Interpol when I was I was writing some poetry and
14:42
Speaker 1: like doing journaling and things like that, and then I
14:44
Speaker 1: tried to put some things that I'd already written into
14:47
Speaker 1: an Interpol song and I immediately was like, that's horrible,
14:50
Speaker 1: and I hate it because the high hat pattern is
14:53
Speaker 1: doing this, and I definitely want the vocal to be
14:56
Speaker 1: completely tailor made to the bassline and the drums, and
15:00
Speaker 1: I'm not having a single extra syllable or a consonant
15:03
Speaker 1: in the wrong place or wrong vowel sound relative to
15:06
Speaker 1: the music. And I realized, like the music is first,
15:10
Speaker 1: and the kind of like the melody and the cadence
15:13
Speaker 1: has to be married to the to the music. I
15:16
Speaker 1: think when you hear like you know, Bob Dylan or
15:17
Speaker 1: Leonard Cones, sometimes I'll have like a real mouthful of
15:19
Speaker 1: a line and it's such great poetry that it doesn't matter.
15:22
Speaker 1: But like I was more interested in, like I don't
15:24
Speaker 1: want to shoehorn in great lyrics into the song if
15:29
Speaker 1: the song has a different kind of cadence, So I
15:31
Speaker 1: just started writing for the music. So the getting into
15:35
Speaker 1: the place to write lyrics has to do with like
15:38
Speaker 1: getting into the zone with the music, and that for
15:41
Speaker 1: me is just a matter of like I could just
15:42
Speaker 1: take a walk with headphones and then I'll start hearing
15:45
Speaker 1: vocal ideas and I don't need weed to do that.
15:48
Speaker 1: I just like to smoke weed and do that.
15:51
Speaker 3: Does that feel like a gift that you can come
15:53
Speaker 3: up with vocals and melodic ideas?
15:58
Speaker 1: It doesn't feel that way, but I do acknowledge that
16:00
Speaker 1: it's not something that I think everybody does and can do.
16:04
Speaker 1: And I can't do that, right, Yeah, no, I will
16:08
Speaker 1: hear I mean, And that's part what makes my partnership
16:10
Speaker 1: with Daniel special. Is also that many times when I
16:15
Speaker 1: try and write vocals for other people's music, I will
16:18
Speaker 1: just hit my head against the wall and I can't
16:20
Speaker 1: get anything. And I can get like the garbagest garbage,
16:24
Speaker 1: like the worst fucking lyrics and the worst melodies, and
16:28
Speaker 1: even the other person I can sense that they're kind
16:30
Speaker 1: of like, shit, that's not that thing that I was
16:32
Speaker 1: looking for from you, right, And so I think that
16:36
Speaker 1: you know, Daniel and I have a special chemistry where
16:38
Speaker 1: like his music in particular, I heard loads of things immediately.
16:42
Speaker 1: I hear like, oh I kind of do that, and yeah,
16:45
Speaker 1: even more so sometimes than with my own writing. You know,
16:48
Speaker 1: it's easier to write vocals to Daniel's chord progressions often
16:51
Speaker 1: than it is to write vocals to my own chord progressions. Yeah.
16:55
Speaker 1: So I think it's it's a gift, but it's a
16:57
Speaker 1: fickle gift.
16:59
Speaker 3: But how cool that you found each other. I mean
17:01
Speaker 3: I think about a lot that so many incredible groups
17:05
Speaker 3: that exist just happened to like go to high school together,
17:09
Speaker 3: you know, like you think about like outcast like big
17:13
Speaker 3: Boy and Andre just happen to be in the same
17:15
Speaker 3: high school at the exact same time and they're like
17:18
Speaker 3: perfect together.
17:19
Speaker 1: Yeah.
17:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, And what you're saying about Daniel, it's like that's
17:23
Speaker 3: just so amazing, Like how do you explain that?
17:25
Speaker 1: No, I know, I know what you mean. I think
17:27
Speaker 1: it's really I guess I was probably thinking about like
17:30
Speaker 1: idols the other day too, about kind of like how
17:32
Speaker 1: do you get like such like great vocalist and like
17:34
Speaker 1: this great guitar player, and like where did they meet?
17:36
Speaker 1: And like was that guitar player just like being awesome
17:39
Speaker 1: somewhere until some band came up to him and was like,
17:41
Speaker 1: do you want to be in this band? And uh, yeah,
17:45
Speaker 1: So basically to answer, I kind of and I think
17:47
Speaker 1: that the answer is sort of yes. I think that
17:49
Speaker 1: like when you're someone who's like a born artist, you
17:51
Speaker 1: are born to be a musician, You cultivate your own
17:55
Speaker 1: thing to such a high degree that you're not really
17:59
Speaker 1: interested in anybody that's not kind of at your level,
18:02
Speaker 1: and then I think that just automatically weeds out, like
18:04
Speaker 1: tons of people, and then you when you do find
18:07
Speaker 1: someone that is sort of either has slaved for their
18:10
Speaker 1: craft as much as you have or just has a
18:13
Speaker 1: similar sensibility and has given as much to their craft,
18:17
Speaker 1: then it's like kind of makes it easy. It's like, Okay, well,
18:20
Speaker 1: I feel like safe and like my time is worth
18:22
Speaker 1: it to spend it with you because I see in
18:26
Speaker 1: you what I see in me, and I haven't seen
18:29
Speaker 1: that in anybody else, and that's why I don't like
18:31
Speaker 1: bother jamming with anybody else.
18:33
Speaker 3: That's a really cool way to think about it. Yeah,
18:36
Speaker 3: but oftentimes does partnerships come when people are so young?
18:40
Speaker 1: I mean, also, I was not looking to meet somebody.
18:44
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a solo artist. I had no
18:45
Speaker 1: interest in being in a band, and I think Daniel
18:48
Speaker 1: just saw me. We did a study a broad thing
18:51
Speaker 1: in Paris, and I had my guitar with me and
18:53
Speaker 1: was trying to busk, and I think he just asked me,
18:58
Speaker 1: you want to come and see my band Rehearse like
18:59
Speaker 1: a couple. After we'd known each other for like a
19:01
Speaker 1: year and a half, and I went and saw him
19:03
Speaker 1: and he had Carlos in the band, and it was
19:06
Speaker 1: just like, Okay, this music is so excellent that now
19:09
Speaker 1: I'm interested in working with other people. But I, you know,
19:12
Speaker 1: other people had been around, I had jammed with other people,
19:15
Speaker 1: and I just didn't want to be in a band
19:17
Speaker 1: until I saw the right band.
19:19
Speaker 3: What was it about their sound that you were attracted to?
19:21
Speaker 3: Do you remember? Was it an energy thing or was
19:24
Speaker 3: it the sound?
19:25
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's all of those things. And also
19:28
Speaker 1: just being like light years ahead of everything else I'd
19:31
Speaker 1: ever heard anybody doing, you know. I mean you meet
19:34
Speaker 1: a lot of people that are technically proficient, you know,
19:37
Speaker 1: within anytime, like within a five mile radius, there's like
19:39
Speaker 1: a thousand guitar players that are better than me at
19:42
Speaker 1: you know, technically better guitar players, but to be able
19:45
Speaker 1: to write music that's compelling like they, you know, Daniel
19:49
Speaker 1: and Carlos were playing PDA when I came to the
19:51
Speaker 1: first rehearsal, and it's like it was amazing music. And
19:56
Speaker 1: Carlos was someone who had ad he was in my dorm.
19:58
Speaker 1: He lived in my dorm, and I already like had
20:01
Speaker 1: seen him and was like, I love this guy. This
20:03
Speaker 1: guy's fucking crazy.
20:05
Speaker 3: What was he like back then?
20:07
Speaker 1: Well, he was in my dorm. I was like, however
20:10
Speaker 1: old you are freshman year of college. I was like seventeen,
20:12
Speaker 1: he was probably like nineteen or twenty. And he was
20:15
Speaker 1: wearing a monk's cassock priests cassick, like the full length
20:20
Speaker 1: black like cloak. Wow. They had like jet black hair
20:23
Speaker 1: and like a big crucifix and the yeah, like a
20:26
Speaker 1: skirt and like a jet black T shirt like skin tight,
20:29
Speaker 1: and he just kind of like glided like no Sperratu
20:31
Speaker 1: through like the courtyard. And this is like a college dorm,
20:34
Speaker 1: which is like a bunch of dumbasses, and like this
20:36
Speaker 1: fucking no Serazu looking motherfucker, like dead serious in the
20:40
Speaker 1: elevator and like walking across the courtyard and I was
20:42
Speaker 1: just like, man, he you know, that's the real deal.
20:45
Speaker 1: That's that guy's out of his mind. And I love
20:49
Speaker 1: strange characters, and so I love how he was so
20:53
Speaker 1: authentically himself. So I hadn't spoken to him. He didn't
20:55
Speaker 1: seem at all approachable, but I did have like I
20:58
Speaker 1: was like, oh, that guy's that guy's cool.
20:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna say, how do you approach a
21:01
Speaker 3: guy like that? Like what's your opening line?
21:04
Speaker 1: I didn't. I just saw him in this. Then I
21:05
Speaker 1: walked into this rehearsal, I was like, oh, there's that guy.
21:07
Speaker 1: So that was a good, cool, good start.
21:10
Speaker 3: Do you remember like how you actually started talking to
21:12
Speaker 3: him and like how your impression of him changed once
21:15
Speaker 3: you guys were actually able to just kind of like
21:18
Speaker 3: shoot the shit.
21:20
Speaker 1: I mean it was Carlos was always difficult, but yeah.
21:23
Speaker 1: And then also it's kind of like an interesting thing
21:24
Speaker 1: is we didn't be We weren't friends, you know, so
21:26
Speaker 1: we became friends from writing music together. So it's more
21:30
Speaker 1: about like there's the respect that like you're worth my time,
21:35
Speaker 1: Like it's okay with me that you're in this room
21:36
Speaker 1: writing songs with us. But I think Carlos had like
21:42
Speaker 1: there's ego battles that went on. Yeah, and I think
21:45
Speaker 1: I was more, I guess, a little bit more loose,
21:50
Speaker 1: and I think he was a little bit maybe more
21:52
Speaker 1: guarded towards me. I think I was like a threat
21:55
Speaker 1: of something that he had. I think he had something
21:57
Speaker 1: going on with Daniel, and I think I actually was.
21:59
Speaker 1: I later came to realize like in some way like
22:01
Speaker 1: a threat to a like a creative bond that I
22:04
Speaker 1: think he felt he had with Daniel. And then I
22:06
Speaker 1: was just some pot smoking, you know, kind of a
22:09
Speaker 1: little bit looser personality in the mix. So anyway, it
22:14
Speaker 1: was the glue that sealed us together was respect. That
22:17
Speaker 1: was you know, at the end of the day, I
22:18
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, you guys are fucking amazing musicians, so
22:20
Speaker 1: I'm down to put up with whatever weird ego stuff
22:23
Speaker 1: is going on. And it was like bumpy in the beginning.
22:25
Speaker 1: I like quit in the beginning, and then I rejoined
22:27
Speaker 1: on the on the condition that I'd be the vocalist.
22:30
Speaker 1: I think was my condition to rejoin, because I wasn't
22:33
Speaker 1: even the singer in the very beginning.
22:36
Speaker 2: We have to take a quick break. But then We'll
22:37
Speaker 2: be back with more from Leo Rose and Paul Banks.
22:44
Speaker 2: We're back with more from Paul Banks and Lea Rose.
22:48
Speaker 3: Was it hard for you to muster up the confidence
22:50
Speaker 3: to be a front person?
22:52
Speaker 1: Like?
22:52
Speaker 3: Where does that come from? And how has that evolved
22:54
Speaker 3: over time?
22:55
Speaker 1: I mean it's interesting, I think, you know, I've never
22:58
Speaker 1: really seen myself much as a front person. I think
23:03
Speaker 1: possibly because the bando like it felt like a gang
23:07
Speaker 1: to me, and it didn't really need a gangle. It
23:09
Speaker 1: seemed to me sort of more like and I like
23:11
Speaker 1: the idea of a gang, where like in any given situation,
23:14
Speaker 1: like one guy can handle it, or one person can
23:17
Speaker 1: handle this situation, then other person handles this situation and
23:19
Speaker 1: as a collective you're very strong and it doesn't really
23:22
Speaker 1: hinge on having like some leader, but I think all
23:28
Speaker 1: dynamics do. And I think as a band, like Daniel
23:31
Speaker 1: was sort of the ideological or the strategic leader of
23:37
Speaker 1: what we do as a band. Yeah, and Carlos was
23:41
Speaker 1: very wasn't really looking to include my songwriting into what
23:45
Speaker 1: we were doing, so I never really felt like this
23:49
Speaker 1: is my band. I felt like I'm a collaborator in
23:51
Speaker 1: this collective and my role is that I'm the singer,
23:56
Speaker 1: and I wouldn't really it's not really my personality to
23:59
Speaker 1: then kind of cop like that. It's something else like
24:02
Speaker 1: I'm bringing these guys along with me. It's kind of like, nah,
24:05
Speaker 1: we sort of do this stuff all together, and so
24:07
Speaker 1: I'm just the one in the center of the stage.
24:09
Speaker 1: So I never really like had I didn't really try
24:11
Speaker 1: and pretend to be anything that it wasn't, and I
24:13
Speaker 1: think that also suited. That's how kind of involved with
24:16
Speaker 1: how we got the name, Like Interpol was like this
24:18
Speaker 1: idea of it being a collective where it's like it's
24:21
Speaker 1: just dudes in black suits and like you don't really
24:23
Speaker 1: know who the boss is. You know, it's like everyone's
24:26
Speaker 1: very capable, but it's about the group power rather than individual.
24:30
Speaker 3: Right, So you're not like the Mick Jagger in the front,
24:33
Speaker 3: like having to be.
24:34
Speaker 1: Like no, I mean even when I do solo stuff,
24:37
Speaker 1: I'm not that kind of performer anyway. So that's what
24:40
Speaker 1: I mean. I'm like, even in or out of Interpol,
24:42
Speaker 1: I'm just sort of not I just like an artist.
24:45
Speaker 1: I don't really view it as like that kind of
24:47
Speaker 1: performer streak, but I love crazy performers. You know, I
24:51
Speaker 1: love Carlos, and I love Mick Jagger, and I love
24:54
Speaker 1: you know, Perry Farrell. Yeah, Kurt Cobain was someone who
24:59
Speaker 1: sort of didn't seem to be that fussed with trying
25:01
Speaker 1: to be like a performer in that regard. And I
25:03
Speaker 1: say this from experience because I saw them live. He
25:06
Speaker 1: seemed kind of like, I, you know, he's doing his thing.
25:08
Speaker 1: It's not about like entertaining you with what his body's doing.
25:12
Speaker 1: It's more like that his music is coming out of him.
25:15
Speaker 1: And I think I'm sort of that way.
25:17
Speaker 3: How old were you when you saw them?
25:20
Speaker 1: Probably fourteen or fifteen. I saw them in a bull
25:23
Speaker 1: ring in Madrid, Spain. It was in utero front row,
25:28
Speaker 1: front row, yep. Yeah, I was like, I was the
25:30
Speaker 1: biggest Nirvana fan. I was, yeah, the biggest.
25:34
Speaker 3: What do you remember from the show?
25:38
Speaker 1: I was interested in the way that Kurt, like, like
25:40
Speaker 1: how he kind of moved and held his guitar. He
25:42
Speaker 1: had this kind of like swimmy sort of thing, like
25:44
Speaker 1: he'd stay like in one spot but sort of like
25:47
Speaker 1: it's I had this kind of swimmy thing that he
25:49
Speaker 1: was doing. And I remember, for some reason watching pat'smer
25:54
Speaker 1: a lot it's again kind of like the live stuff
25:58
Speaker 1: has never really been. It wasn't so much about like there,
26:00
Speaker 1: It was a records that meant everything to me. And
26:03
Speaker 1: I mentioned seeing them live for the kind of like
26:06
Speaker 1: historic trivia of that, but not Yeah, it wasn't that.
26:09
Speaker 1: And then I saw them live and everything changed, like
26:11
Speaker 1: everything had already changed, and then I saw them live.
26:14
Speaker 3: You know, have you gotten to meet Chris nova Selk
26:16
Speaker 3: or Dave Grohl?
26:17
Speaker 1: And met Dave Grol once. I'm pretty awkward, so you know,
26:21
Speaker 1: I didn't really capitalize on that situation. But he just
26:24
Speaker 1: mentioned that he loved the snare sound on our first record.
26:28
Speaker 3: Oh that's cool.
26:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he seems like a really cool dude, and yes,
26:33
Speaker 1: so much respect.
26:35
Speaker 3: All right, let's run through some of the tracks on Antics.
26:38
Speaker 3: Let's see so okay, so if there's any memories you
26:41
Speaker 3: have of like writing these songs, performing the songs, Okay,
26:46
Speaker 3: how about next exit, Let's just start at the top.
26:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was that was fun. I think fondly of
26:53
Speaker 1: that one. I think we were aware after the first
26:55
Speaker 1: record that you know, we were being when we started.
26:59
Speaker 1: We didn't talk about post punk, we didn't talk about
27:02
Speaker 1: the bands that represent post punk or if they were
27:06
Speaker 1: talked about around me. I didn't know that there was
27:09
Speaker 1: genre by that name and that these bands were the
27:12
Speaker 1: ones that you know, represented it. I think Carlos and
27:15
Speaker 1: Sam definitely did know all that shit, but it was
27:18
Speaker 1: sort of like I was like into Nirvana and the Pixies,
27:22
Speaker 1: and it was a little bit kind of like off
27:24
Speaker 1: putting to me when the first record came out and
27:26
Speaker 1: I realized that we were just being contextualized as like,
27:28
Speaker 1: what this band is doing is derivative of and a
27:32
Speaker 1: callback to this very specific thing that already happened. Because
27:35
Speaker 1: in my mind it was like, actually, I thought I
27:38
Speaker 1: found like three geniuses and we're doing like dope shit together,
27:42
Speaker 1: and that's what I thought was happening. I didn't realize
27:44
Speaker 1: that we're actually this thing that you're telling us that
27:46
Speaker 1: we are. Now I understand it's all completely founded. All
27:51
Speaker 1: of those assessments and comments make perfect sense to me now,
27:55
Speaker 1: but I was, you know, young and naive anyway. I
27:59
Speaker 1: don't know who it was that sort of came up
28:00
Speaker 1: with the concept for Next Exit, if it was a
28:03
Speaker 1: Daniel thing or if Carlos went to the Oregon straight away,
28:07
Speaker 1: but I loved how it sort of represent into something
28:09
Speaker 1: very unlike what we were seemingly known for. So it's
28:13
Speaker 1: like a little bit of just like dusty Americana. Even
28:17
Speaker 1: just that the fact that I felt like Americana, I
28:19
Speaker 1: kind of felt like, I really like that we're doing
28:21
Speaker 1: this song, and I really liked that this song is
28:23
Speaker 1: the first one that we're you know, kind of constructing
28:25
Speaker 1: like an intro to a record, because it's not what's expected.
28:29
Speaker 1: It's not cold, it's not you know Dad, it's you know,
28:33
Speaker 1: like got a completely different vibe and I and I
28:36
Speaker 1: really liked the dashing of expectations in a way that
28:39
Speaker 1: was very honest and earn it.
28:40
Speaker 3: You know.
28:40
Speaker 1: It's like we're also huge Roy Orbison fans, like everybody
28:44
Speaker 1: in the band for instance, so it's like genuine to us.
28:47
Speaker 1: But it felt like, but this is going to be
28:49
Speaker 1: a little bit of a you know, a left turn
28:51
Speaker 1: for some people who are expecting something else from us.
28:54
Speaker 1: So I liked that we did that song.
28:56
Speaker 3: How does sequencing work in the band? Who comes up
28:59
Speaker 3: with the final sequence and what is that process?
29:03
Speaker 1: Like? It depends like I sequenced Marauder, Daniel sequenced the
29:08
Speaker 1: most recent record I think Antics was probably Daniel, but
29:13
Speaker 1: I think we did kind of debate it and you know,
29:16
Speaker 1: maybe did some reorganizing. It was likely a group effort,
29:20
Speaker 1: I think on that one, or maybe we all took
29:22
Speaker 1: home CDs and like tried to sequence it. I don't remember.
29:26
Speaker 3: Seems so hard because there's so many songs. There could
29:29
Speaker 3: be an infinite number of sequences to sort of like
29:33
Speaker 3: settle that debate.
29:34
Speaker 1: It seems tough, but you know, the music in such
29:36
Speaker 1: a different intimate way when you've made it so that
29:39
Speaker 1: it's like everything is so familiar to you, and I think.
29:42
Speaker 3: That you it sort of makes sense.
29:44
Speaker 1: It sort of makes sense. Yeah, it's not that hard.
29:47
Speaker 3: Were there other songs that were recorded that were left
29:49
Speaker 3: off the final version of Antics?
29:52
Speaker 1: Good question? Yeah, I think yeah, oh yeah. We tried
29:55
Speaker 1: to finish this song called that came out later called
29:58
Speaker 1: we called it Gavalon when it came out, but it
30:01
Speaker 1: was called Cubed at the time, and that was like
30:04
Speaker 1: one of our best things that we ever wrote. And
30:06
Speaker 1: I just couldn't get the fucking lyrics together on that one,
30:09
Speaker 1: and I think that's why it didn't happen. And I
30:10
Speaker 1: think song seven also was a a case I just
30:14
Speaker 1: didn't like that song. That's why that didn't come out,
30:16
Speaker 1: but its sins come out and I think I think
30:18
Speaker 1: the fans really like it, but it wasn't my fave. Yeah.
30:23
Speaker 1: I can't remember other B sides from that record though,
30:26
Speaker 1: all right?
30:26
Speaker 3: What about Evil?
30:28
Speaker 1: Evil was one that I spent like a lot of
30:30
Speaker 1: time on the lyrics and I really enjoyed writing that,
30:33
Speaker 1: and I felt like that was like a yeah. Actually
30:37
Speaker 1: for me, it's kind of one of those songs that
30:38
Speaker 1: was a single for us that I really like. And
30:41
Speaker 1: I think sometimes the singles are the ones that I'd like,
30:43
Speaker 1: you know, not as much as some other songs, but Evil, Yeah,
30:47
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed writing the lyrics to that, and it's
30:50
Speaker 1: a good song. I like that one.
30:53
Speaker 3: How do you usually listen to mixes? Do you take
30:55
Speaker 3: stuff home with you? Were you burning CDs and listening
30:59
Speaker 3: to them in like your car or in like a
31:02
Speaker 3: discmand What was the process for you for really hearing
31:06
Speaker 3: what had been tracked?
31:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love listening on car stereos, but I think
31:11
Speaker 1: at the time it would have been like a CD player,
31:12
Speaker 1: a portable CD player, and for me that would be
31:15
Speaker 1: because like that's how I listened to my at that time,
31:18
Speaker 1: we were doing antics. That's how I listen to my
31:20
Speaker 1: transam and my stereo lab and my John Fruciantes, you know,
31:24
Speaker 1: on my CD player. So yeah, popping it into the
31:27
Speaker 1: same format that I listened to music I'm enjoying at
31:31
Speaker 1: the time, That's how I would you know, reference it
31:33
Speaker 1: and see how it kind of if I get a
31:35
Speaker 1: vistual kick that way. And then there's you know, this
31:37
Speaker 1: funny thing with music. It's like there's the honeymoon phase
31:40
Speaker 1: right around when you're mixing and mastering, where like I
31:42
Speaker 1: love it and I my heart is totally open to
31:45
Speaker 1: it and it's like great, and then that ends and
31:48
Speaker 1: then I like kind of can't listen to it anymore
31:51
Speaker 1: because I'll only hear shortcomings and things that bother me
31:54
Speaker 1: about it. Once it's out, yeah, once it's out, yeah,
31:57
Speaker 1: or even once it's a soon to be out.
31:59
Speaker 3: Do you think it's because at that point you're letting
32:01
Speaker 3: go and you don't you're not able to tinker anymore.
32:04
Speaker 1: Possibly are also just like now everybody else is like,
32:07
Speaker 1: you know, are going to get all over it, and
32:12
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to deal with like people's you know,
32:15
Speaker 1: the you know there's expectations and then there's like the
32:17
Speaker 1: actual reaction, and I think it's once it's in the
32:20
Speaker 1: field of like now people are gonna be satisfied or dissatisfied,
32:25
Speaker 1: and it's this whole world of like now judgment is
32:27
Speaker 1: being passed on this music, and I think the moments
32:30
Speaker 1: before that enters my perspective is a great phase and
32:35
Speaker 1: then it have to like just turn away from it.
32:38
Speaker 3: Now, how do you deal with haters? Like if you're
32:41
Speaker 3: in comments and you're reading what people are saying, like,
32:44
Speaker 3: do you are you of the mind that you have
32:46
Speaker 3: to just have a thick skin and sort of like
32:50
Speaker 3: keep on or how do you how do you deal
32:52
Speaker 3: with it?
32:54
Speaker 1: I think I read like the first half of a
32:59
Speaker 1: review of like our second or our third record, and
33:03
Speaker 1: that was the last thing I ever read like critically
33:07
Speaker 1: about the band, and then I didn't read or pay
33:10
Speaker 1: attention to anything until like the last record, and then
33:15
Speaker 1: I guess, like getting more familiar with sort of the
33:17
Speaker 1: world of Instagram and stuff and like seeing things on YouTube,
33:20
Speaker 1: I actually, like, do now read comments. I don't read
33:22
Speaker 1: any critical anything, but I read like audience comments and
33:27
Speaker 1: and I don't know if it's generally pretty nice, is
33:29
Speaker 1: what's what I found. It's actually like so, I mean,
33:32
Speaker 1: I'm sure of the cret If I read any kind
33:33
Speaker 1: of like actual official review, i'd probably be super pissed
33:36
Speaker 1: and bummed. But I just haven't done that since like,
33:40
Speaker 1: oh six.
33:41
Speaker 3: Do you read reviews of other bands that you like?
33:44
Speaker 1: No, I don't give a shit. No, No, I mean
33:49
Speaker 1: I and I like, I support the form of criticsism,
33:53
Speaker 1: you know, I actually I think it's important and I like, yeah,
33:56
Speaker 1: I like no disrespect, but no, it's not really for
33:59
Speaker 1: me and I it's even like laughable to even think
34:02
Speaker 1: about that. I generally kind of know what I like
34:05
Speaker 1: when I hear it, and that's all I need to know.
34:07
Speaker 3: You know, No, that's great. I imagine it could be
34:10
Speaker 3: soul crushing to put so much into something and then
34:13
Speaker 3: have somebody who's not even a musician just kind of
34:15
Speaker 3: like shit on it.
34:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they can be so yeah, it's like brutal.
34:19
Speaker 3: And it can be so persuasive too, because they can
34:21
Speaker 3: write a story or for you know, sort of like
34:24
Speaker 3: subconsciously form an opinion in people's minds about the whole
34:28
Speaker 3: like impetus of a project or the motivation and then
34:32
Speaker 3: people just like think that that's reality.
34:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also it's like it's really out of sync
34:38
Speaker 1: with like like I just felt like my process is
34:40
Speaker 1: more pure than that and like less contrived than that.
34:42
Speaker 1: And the way they write it is though like, oh,
34:43
Speaker 1: they were trying to do this and they failed, and
34:46
Speaker 1: it's like, I don't know. I was just trying to
34:48
Speaker 1: do cool shit that felt fun actually, and like I
34:50
Speaker 1: don't really know if I could fail at that, but
34:53
Speaker 1: you framing it like they were trying to do this
34:55
Speaker 1: or that. But I mean it's also sometimes criticism is
34:59
Speaker 1: great and insightful and blah blah blah, but I don't
35:03
Speaker 1: need to hear about it from my own work totally.
35:06
Speaker 3: How did you find John Frschante's work? I think think
35:09
Speaker 3: it was his first solo that you.
35:10
Speaker 1: Really liked, neanderalads.
35:13
Speaker 3: What was your experience finding that album?
35:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was in a dorm freshman year at NYU
35:18
Speaker 1: and my roommate was this kid named Phil. Well, we
35:23
Speaker 1: had seven of us in this dorm, but Phil he
35:29
Speaker 1: was Chinese American but I can't I can't remember his
35:31
Speaker 1: last name. And he introduced me to Centradeau and Sebado
35:38
Speaker 1: and he introduced me to that John Frechiante record Neanderlades
35:41
Speaker 1: and usually just a T shirt. Yeah, he had some
35:43
Speaker 1: great music that he was into. But for me, you know,
35:46
Speaker 1: like Blood Sugar Sex Magic Is was a huge record
35:49
Speaker 1: for me, and the song I could Have Lied was
35:53
Speaker 1: one of the most important tracks, you know, in the
35:55
Speaker 1: early days of starting to play guitar, even before Nirvana,
35:58
Speaker 1: was the thing that made me decide like that's what
36:01
Speaker 1: I'm going to do with my life. But you know,
36:04
Speaker 1: right before that with Blood Sugar, Sa Sex Magic, like
36:08
Speaker 1: and it's particular like the guitar in Under the Bridge
36:11
Speaker 1: and the guitar solos and I could Have Lied where
36:13
Speaker 1: I felt like goosebumps and as like like my thirteen
36:17
Speaker 1: fourteen year old brain was like going like holy shit
36:21
Speaker 1: with the with the feeling that this is giving me.
36:24
Speaker 1: And then you see John Freiantay in the video for
36:26
Speaker 1: Under the Bridge, It's like, Okay, that's also the coolest
36:28
Speaker 1: guy to ever do it. Yeah, the whole thing, like
36:31
Speaker 1: the slouch, just the whole thing, Like he's the fucking goat.
36:36
Speaker 1: And so that was the impression I had. So when
36:38
Speaker 1: I heard he's got a solo record, I was like
36:40
Speaker 1: already kind of like, oh cool, I want to hear that,
36:43
Speaker 1: and then I just love, love, love love that record.
36:46
Speaker 3: Have you met John?
36:48
Speaker 1: I did meet John with Rizza. Yeah, and again, you know,
36:53
Speaker 1: start just refer back to my Dave Grohl comments. I
37:00
Speaker 1: just you know, I don't know. If you give me
37:02
Speaker 1: like sixteen visits with somebody, then I'll break through. But
37:05
Speaker 1: you can I got to make an impression, like one time.
37:07
Speaker 1: It's just I think I I think I failed. He
37:10
Speaker 1: was fascinating. I was at his house to watch a
37:13
Speaker 1: Mayweather Canelo fight actually because Riza and him are like besties,
37:18
Speaker 1: and so I was working with Riza and they just
37:20
Speaker 1: brought me along and I mean it was epic. I mean,
37:23
Speaker 1: Fruchiante was working on a hip hop record that he
37:25
Speaker 1: was producing at the time, and he played that to
37:27
Speaker 1: me and I was floored. It was incredible. And some
37:32
Speaker 1: of the things he told me about hip hop I
37:34
Speaker 1: had never thought about, and like, you know, I was
37:36
Speaker 1: very impressed. He's a very incredible individual. But I didn't
37:40
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, we yeah, I don't. I didn't
37:44
Speaker 1: give him my phone number anything.
37:45
Speaker 3: And that was that he had him become bestie. No,
37:47
Speaker 3: that's like a proper hang though. I thought you were
37:49
Speaker 3: going to say, you like crosspaths at backstage at a
37:52
Speaker 3: festival or something.
37:54
Speaker 1: Uh No, No, it was you know, we had some chests,
37:56
Speaker 1: we had some chats.
37:57
Speaker 3: That's cool. Do you remember what he was talking about
37:59
Speaker 3: with hip hop?
38:01
Speaker 1: Well, one thing was I was talking about how I
38:03
Speaker 1: love like the cadence and how I've always felt like
38:06
Speaker 1: it was I'm just more interested in hip hop than
38:09
Speaker 1: rock music since like the beginning of intropol. Basically, I
38:12
Speaker 1: haven't listened to rock in my free time at all
38:15
Speaker 1: in the last like twenty years. And one of the
38:18
Speaker 1: things I say about hip hop or in the early
38:20
Speaker 1: days was that it was just like a much more
38:22
Speaker 1: fertile genre. Like that's what I say in like oh
38:24
Speaker 1: two when we were doing our first like that I
38:26
Speaker 1: don't care about the genre of rock and I just
38:29
Speaker 1: care about this other genre. But what I would say is,
38:31
Speaker 1: like the lack of melody in the vocal means that
38:34
Speaker 1: the lyric has to be a little bit more impactful,
38:37
Speaker 1: and also like the flow and the rhythms are more interesting.
38:39
Speaker 1: And like I was saying that kind of standard thing
38:41
Speaker 1: that I say about hip hop to John frascionte and
38:43
Speaker 1: he's like, who wha, whoa, whoa, whoa. There definitely is
38:46
Speaker 1: melody in the lyrics of hip hop. And I was like,
38:50
Speaker 1: huh okay, and he basically explained to me that, like
38:53
Speaker 1: it's not what would you would call like, it's not
38:55
Speaker 1: like the absence of pitch, like there is pitch in
38:58
Speaker 1: like there is no choice in a rap lyric. Yeah,
39:03
Speaker 1: And now I kind of see him like, oh, yeah,
39:05
Speaker 1: that's that's kind of obvious or it would sort of
39:08
Speaker 1: sign sound clash. But in the same way, I almost
39:11
Speaker 1: looked at like spoken word, it's indeterminate pitch. I guess
39:14
Speaker 1: you call it like it doesn't matter what note the
39:16
Speaker 1: voice is hitting. And I looked at hip hop that way,
39:19
Speaker 1: and he kind of corrected me. I think he also
39:22
Speaker 1: said some stuff about like drum production that I can't
39:25
Speaker 1: remember offhand, but like it's it's definitely some like mad
39:28
Speaker 1: genius kind of stuff. Yeah, he's definitely on another level.
39:32
Speaker 3: Like somebody who has perfect pitch and can hear pitch
39:34
Speaker 3: and everything.
39:36
Speaker 1: More than that, it's like they just can like see
39:39
Speaker 1: details in everything and in like keep track of them
39:43
Speaker 1: in their mind and have kind of like aesthetic preferences
39:46
Speaker 1: over dimensions that most of us don't even notice.
39:50
Speaker 3: So cool.
39:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just it's kind of like a wizard perspective.
39:54
Speaker 1: It's as I say, it's like it's like having preferences
39:57
Speaker 1: in things that the rest of us might just be like,
39:59
Speaker 1: I didn't know you could have a preference on that matter.
40:03
Speaker 3: Right, Spending so much time with Rizza, did you get
40:06
Speaker 3: a wizard feeling from him as well? What was your
40:10
Speaker 3: impression of Rizza?
40:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, Rizz is a bona fide genius. Whatever lore or
40:17
Speaker 1: aura people attribute to him without knowing him, I would
40:21
Speaker 1: say that it's definitely true. You know, he's definitely not
40:25
Speaker 1: a regular person. He's really a genius musically and kind
40:30
Speaker 1: of someone who's done a lot of work on themselves spiritually.
40:33
Speaker 1: You can tell. I've never heard him say a negative
40:35
Speaker 1: thing about anyone ever, which is like, I think he's
40:38
Speaker 1: the first person I've ever been around that's like that
40:40
Speaker 1: where it's like he doesn't operate in the kind of
40:43
Speaker 1: like pettier levels that a lot of people, myself included do.
40:47
Speaker 1: He's just sort of like geared around I think joy
40:50
Speaker 1: and creativity, and he's like a really affable person and
40:53
Speaker 1: just really really really intelligent and gifted.
40:57
Speaker 3: That was the feeling I got watching the Hot Ones
40:59
Speaker 3: when you guys were on Hot Ones like ten years ago.
41:02
Speaker 3: He just seemed like so much fun to hang out
41:05
Speaker 3: with and just kind of like down for whatever and
41:08
Speaker 3: like a really outlook.
41:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think, but it's not entirely without intention,
41:15
Speaker 1: Like what you perceive there would be that he's made
41:18
Speaker 1: the decision I'm gonna go do this show that Paul
41:20
Speaker 1: said we should do, and I'm obviously not going to
41:23
Speaker 1: try and have a bad time or have an attitude.
41:25
Speaker 1: I'll go and like like he chooses to go have
41:27
Speaker 1: a nice time and be light about it. So like
41:30
Speaker 1: there was an instance for like I've we did this
41:33
Speaker 1: thing with like the Spike Awards. Actually Kobe was there
41:37
Speaker 1: that time. It was the first time ever saw Kobe
41:38
Speaker 1: speak in person. Rip. Yeah, I had no idea it
41:42
Speaker 1: was like super intelligent guy. I was like, I didn't.
41:44
Speaker 1: I wasn't aware at the time how intelligent Kobe clearly was.
41:48
Speaker 1: But anyway, so like Rizzy gets up and he like
41:50
Speaker 1: does this like like presents like the next awards. So
41:52
Speaker 1: like first we're like at a table together like in
41:53
Speaker 1: these nice suits that we got for the event and
41:55
Speaker 1: like and then he gets like ushered away to go
41:57
Speaker 1: like you know, perform like the intro to some category
42:02
Speaker 1: on camera, and he just like nails it. And he
42:04
Speaker 1: even like kind of I could tell he sort of
42:05
Speaker 1: like improvised off of what the teleprompter was saying. He
42:08
Speaker 1: was just like completely relaxed, excellently charismatic and funny and
42:11
Speaker 1: likable and blah blah blah. And he came back to
42:13
Speaker 1: the table and I was sort of like, man, how
42:14
Speaker 1: do you do that? How do you just go up
42:16
Speaker 1: there and just go to like fucking hit a home
42:18
Speaker 1: run like that? He said like, well, I just think
42:21
Speaker 1: about the fact that, like I'm the guy in the
42:22
Speaker 1: cool suit, so the guy in the cool suit would
42:26
Speaker 1: like be cool. And I realized it sounds like so simple,
42:31
Speaker 1: it's like don't overthink it. But he like inhabits the
42:34
Speaker 1: mode that he chooses to inhabit in that moment. I
42:37
Speaker 1: think a lot of us are sort of more at
42:39
Speaker 1: the subject to the environment we're in to impact how
42:44
Speaker 1: we conduct ourselves, and I think he's someone who chooses
42:48
Speaker 1: how he's going to conduct himself, and the environment is
42:52
Speaker 1: sort of you know, the recipient of that rather than
42:56
Speaker 1: affecting that.
42:57
Speaker 3: Right, No, that's incredible. Did you get a chance to
43:01
Speaker 3: ask him like stories about Wu Tang or did you
43:04
Speaker 3: learn anything about the history of Wu Tang or any
43:07
Speaker 3: sort of like anecdotes about the group that kind of
43:09
Speaker 3: blew your mind.
43:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was one thing that he said about how
43:13
Speaker 1: like when they would want to go to like a
43:15
Speaker 1: concert or something. I think he said they'd bum rush
43:18
Speaker 1: the door because he'd be like, because we'd just be like,
43:21
Speaker 1: you know, eight or nine giant dudes, and like the
43:24
Speaker 1: bouncers would be like, what are we going to do?
43:27
Speaker 1: So we would just bumb And I was kind of
43:29
Speaker 1: like because I met Also, like method Man and ghost
43:32
Speaker 1: Face are huge people. I don't know if you know that,
43:34
Speaker 1: but they're like large dudes. And Riz is big too,
43:40
Speaker 1: you know. So it's just kind of like, yeah, this
43:42
Speaker 1: this idea of them kind of rolling around Brooklyn being
43:45
Speaker 1: scary as hell. Also, I mean, I guess like the
43:48
Speaker 1: miniseries now that Rusa has done has shown some of
43:52
Speaker 1: this stuff. But like he told me some stuff about
43:55
Speaker 1: the actual criminal exploits of certain members and how they
43:58
Speaker 1: were like really legitimately scary dudes.
44:01
Speaker 3: Any odb stories.
44:04
Speaker 1: I just got the feeling that he really really loves ODB. Yeah,
44:07
Speaker 1: and I think I think it was like had a
44:09
Speaker 1: special place in Rizz's heart. I think Odb's like they
44:14
Speaker 1: really pure, unadulterated creativity that I think was maybe just
44:17
Speaker 1: like really something to behold.
44:20
Speaker 2: Ye.
44:20
Speaker 1: Like even the you know, one of his names, like
44:22
Speaker 1: there's no father to his style is something that they
44:24
Speaker 1: would say, and I kind of think that's, Yeah, that's
44:26
Speaker 1: a great way to look at ODB. It's like that
44:28
Speaker 1: just comes from nowhere. Yeah. I remember like when I
44:31
Speaker 1: first started working with Rizz, I was like trying to
44:32
Speaker 1: tell my mom, like, you know, the basically, like the
44:34
Speaker 1: Wikipedia article on this person is not at all going
44:37
Speaker 1: to give you the entire picture of how important this
44:40
Speaker 1: person is. Like this person as the years go on,
44:43
Speaker 1: people will start to give him the credit of being
44:47
Speaker 1: someone very important in the history of music on a
44:51
Speaker 1: number of levels. And yeah, really magical, magical person.
44:56
Speaker 2: After this last break, we'll be back with the rest
44:58
Speaker 2: of Leo Rose's conversation with Paul Banks. We're back with
45:05
Speaker 2: the rest of Leo Rose's conversation with Paul Banks.
45:09
Speaker 3: All right, let's talk about a couple other tracks from antics,
45:13
Speaker 3: just so I don't leave that just high and dry.
45:15
Speaker 3: Is there any any song in particular that stands out
45:19
Speaker 3: to you that you remember like recording or writing.
45:24
Speaker 1: Take You on a Cruise was a special one because
45:26
Speaker 1: that was a song that I had no vocals for.
45:30
Speaker 1: Oftentimes I would sort of just be focusing on writing
45:33
Speaker 1: my guitar parts while we were writing songs, and there
45:35
Speaker 1: would just be like that was a song that was
45:37
Speaker 1: an instrumental until we're in the studio and then I
45:40
Speaker 1: remember it was the one time where there was like
45:42
Speaker 1: a pro tools rig set up downstairs for me, and
45:44
Speaker 1: I just like worked by myself, I think even overnight
45:49
Speaker 1: and wrote the vocal top to bottom, and then I
45:51
Speaker 1: think the next day, like Daniel came in and like
45:53
Speaker 1: you know, they played it back for him. Daniel often
45:55
Speaker 1: mentions that that was like a very powerful moment for
45:59
Speaker 1: him because it went from like having no vocal to
46:01
Speaker 1: having like the complete treatment to Take You on a Cruise.
46:05
Speaker 1: It was also kind of good because that song has
46:07
Speaker 1: like a little bit more of a low key temp
46:09
Speaker 1: than a lot of the other music, and it has
46:11
Speaker 1: to do with the fact that it was written by me.
46:13
Speaker 1: Just like this, like with a microphone in front of
46:15
Speaker 1: a computer, rather than in the rehearsal room like yelling
46:18
Speaker 1: over Sam's drums. It was more intimately composed, and I
46:22
Speaker 1: think that was like a good thing to put in
46:24
Speaker 1: our body of work at that time. Like it's a
46:27
Speaker 1: little different, and I love that song.
46:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, when the album was out and people were listening
46:33
Speaker 3: to it and you started playing live, what songs could
46:36
Speaker 3: you see the audience responding to.
46:39
Speaker 1: First Evil was a big one. Uh, Slow Hands was
46:42
Speaker 1: a big one. Nark is one that to this day
46:46
Speaker 1: people really like, and I really like Nark. That's probably
46:49
Speaker 1: a personal favorite for me.
46:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, talk about Nark. Anything you remember from writing that
46:54
Speaker 3: or recording it.
46:56
Speaker 1: I remember writing some of the lyrics in Tompkins Square
46:59
Speaker 1: Park while I was walking around, And it's interesting that
47:01
Speaker 1: I would remember such a specific moment, but I literally
47:06
Speaker 1: remember kind of like choosing to like hold off on
47:09
Speaker 1: a vocal delivery until the second chord of my guitar
47:12
Speaker 1: progression like blim, Like I remember mapping out where I
47:19
Speaker 1: would sing in the verses while walking around Tompkin Square
47:22
Speaker 1: Park on like a sunny day, And then I remember
47:25
Speaker 1: writing more of the lyrics to that song. Arc in
47:27
Speaker 1: a cemetery next to the studio in Connecticut. So obviously
47:30
Speaker 1: I didn't write everything in Tompkin Square Park. It was
47:33
Speaker 1: still some stuff I was doing while we were recording
47:35
Speaker 1: the record. So yeah, it's funny I remember two different
47:38
Speaker 1: lyric writing sessions and where I was for that one song.
47:42
Speaker 3: Is there anything that you've gotten specifically from listening to
47:47
Speaker 3: hip hop? Like I know you were talking about cadence.
47:50
Speaker 3: Is there any inspiration you've gotten with your own performance
47:55
Speaker 3: or your own writing style.
47:56
Speaker 1: I used to subvert, like I loved the braggadociousness of
47:59
Speaker 1: like a lot of hip hop, the kind of like
48:01
Speaker 1: you know, I'm the shit and like this is all
48:03
Speaker 1: my cool shit that I do. And I felt like, obviously,
48:07
Speaker 1: I like don't feel like that, but I like the
48:11
Speaker 1: idea of a person with a microphone. So I will
48:14
Speaker 1: have lyrics where like I'll say something like the tone
48:17
Speaker 1: is that I'm bragging, but what I'm saying is something
48:20
Speaker 1: crazy or like I'm timeless, like a broken watch, I
48:23
Speaker 1: make money like Fred Astaire. That's sort of my Like
48:26
Speaker 1: imagine if a rapper was saying that, it's kind of like, well,
48:29
Speaker 1: what is that even something to brag about? I mean,
48:31
Speaker 1: what do you even mean? But sort of like my
48:33
Speaker 1: surrealistic bent on on the braggadociousness of like of the
48:39
Speaker 1: self aggrandizing tropes.
48:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, how many different languages? Do you speak?
48:46
Speaker 1: Spanish? Well in French, pretty well in English and Spanish.
48:51
Speaker 3: So you speak Mexican Spanish and Spanish Spanish. It's a
48:56
Speaker 3: little bit different, right, like different yeah dialects.
48:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, my accent is much more natural in the Mexican dialect. Yeah,
49:04
Speaker 1: but I learned the Spanish one. I lived in Spain
49:06
Speaker 1: for four years and then Mexico for one year. But
49:08
Speaker 1: the one year in Mexico, my accent became better with
49:12
Speaker 1: Mexican Spanish than it ever was with Castilian Spanish.
49:15
Speaker 3: Is it a little sort of like looser the Mexican Spanish?
49:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean Spanish Castilian Spanish has like a real
49:22
Speaker 1: like kind of like an edge to it. It's like
49:25
Speaker 1: a like a thickness yea. And Mexican Spanish is more
49:30
Speaker 1: sing song and then slang in Castilian Spanish and Castiano
49:35
Speaker 1: is like a really fucking edgy and like dark and
49:39
Speaker 1: like they say crazy shit, like the turns of phrases
49:43
Speaker 1: like Mechicago and la leche and like all these things
49:46
Speaker 1: that are like just I don't want to translate it,
49:49
Speaker 1: but like like it's like offensive and edgy kind of
49:53
Speaker 1: ways of saying like holy shit. And then Mexico, the
49:58
Speaker 1: slang is a lot more kind of like playful, and
50:00
Speaker 1: there's like a lot of it spoke more to me.
50:02
Speaker 1: The kind of the dialect in Mexico and the word
50:06
Speaker 1: play and the language feels like very alive and like
50:09
Speaker 1: they say really funny like turns of phrase and just
50:13
Speaker 1: like it's like a it's like on a wavelength that
50:16
Speaker 1: really resonated with me. And then I had friends that
50:18
Speaker 1: were just like really genius, like very funny. And also
50:21
Speaker 1: in Spain, no one spoke to me in Spanish. But
50:24
Speaker 1: in Mexico I was like the the weddo gringo who
50:27
Speaker 1: spoke Spanish, so they actually would speak to me in Spanish.
50:31
Speaker 1: So I got like kind of more practice.
50:33
Speaker 3: There was it hard moving to new I mean not
50:37
Speaker 3: only going to new schools, but going to new countries.
50:39
Speaker 3: How did you make friends? Did you have like a
50:41
Speaker 3: strategy for getting in with people?
50:44
Speaker 2: No?
50:45
Speaker 1: No, I mean I did. I went to three high
50:46
Speaker 1: schools in three countries.
50:48
Speaker 3: Wow.
50:50
Speaker 1: But I was like badly bullied before I moved to Spain,
50:55
Speaker 1: like badly bullied, really like assaulted at school.
51:00
Speaker 3: Is that in Jersey?
51:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, like collective bum rushed Like yeah, I got the
51:08
Speaker 1: shit kicked out of me a lot in New Jersey.
51:11
Speaker 3: Wow.
51:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, like five or six instances of pretty dramatic violence
51:15
Speaker 1: like at school. So when I moved to Spain, it
51:17
Speaker 1: was like, cool, let's fucking let's get the fuck out
51:19
Speaker 1: of here. And then when we moved from Spain back
51:22
Speaker 1: to New Jersey, and that was where I was sort
51:24
Speaker 1: of like, yeah, same school system, same house, and I
51:28
Speaker 1: just had this incredible experience like going out to bars
51:31
Speaker 1: and like bonds with like my best friends now are
51:34
Speaker 1: friends that I made in Spain. Then so coming back
51:37
Speaker 1: to New Jersey after that, I was kind of like
51:38
Speaker 1: a little bit like and you know, this is for everybody.
51:41
Speaker 1: I don't want anything to do with any of y'all,
51:44
Speaker 1: like at all. And yet I did meet some lovely
51:46
Speaker 1: people and like, obviously the kids are kids, So even
51:48
Speaker 1: some of the people that had been kind of like
51:50
Speaker 1: the bullies, you know, I even became friendly with some
51:54
Speaker 1: of them, and you know, but you never really get
51:57
Speaker 1: rid of that stuff, Like it definitely like shaped how
51:59
Speaker 1: I view everybody I think, you know, bullying at that
52:03
Speaker 1: young age. Yeah, but so that was that was interesting.
52:06
Speaker 1: It was going back to that and then leaving that
52:08
Speaker 1: was to go to Mexico, which again was kind of like,
52:10
Speaker 1: I'm good, Like Spain turned out to be so dope,
52:12
Speaker 1: then I'm open to see what Mexico has for me.
52:16
Speaker 3: You know, were you angry at your parents for moving
52:18
Speaker 3: so much or were you did you just.
52:20
Speaker 1: Like when we went to Spain, I was like, cool,
52:23
Speaker 1: let's fucking go. I fucking hate New Jersey, so thank
52:27
Speaker 1: you mom and dad. And then I didn't like Spain
52:30
Speaker 1: when I got there, But then like a year and
52:32
Speaker 1: a half in, I think once I realized like, oh
52:34
Speaker 1: wait a minute, like I didn't like it at first
52:36
Speaker 1: and now I love it. Maybe that's what it's like,
52:39
Speaker 1: if you go anywhere in the world, you're not used
52:41
Speaker 1: to it at first, and then you come to love it.
52:43
Speaker 1: And maybe that's why everybody wherever they're from like likes
52:46
Speaker 1: where they're from. So once that clicked, I was like,
52:49
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I could just go anywhere and eventually I
52:51
Speaker 1: would find my way to love the place. And I've
52:54
Speaker 1: always been kind of an introvert, so like I always had,
52:57
Speaker 1: Like I always had friends. It wasn't I didn't. I
52:59
Speaker 1: didn't need more friends. I didn't feel friendless in New Jersey.
53:03
Speaker 1: I did, but that was kind of all, as I say,
53:04
Speaker 1: because I was like, fuck all, y'all.
53:09
Speaker 3: What was your relationship like with your parents? Were you
53:12
Speaker 3: close with them? Were you rebellious?
53:14
Speaker 1: Yeah? But you know, I never shoplifted and I didn't
53:18
Speaker 1: skip a lot of school, but I'm yeah, I got
53:21
Speaker 1: in trouble at school a lot for acting out in
53:24
Speaker 1: a goofy way. Yeah, but then you know, I also
53:27
Speaker 1: got good grades, so it's like it never never was
53:29
Speaker 1: that bad.
53:32
Speaker 3: Do you want to talk about being a dad at all?
53:34
Speaker 3: Are you open to that?
53:35
Speaker 1: Sure? Yeah, it's the best, the best. I really love
53:38
Speaker 1: being a dad.
53:39
Speaker 3: Has it been a big change for you.
53:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, it has. It's it's very very simplifying, kind of
53:48
Speaker 1: makes the career not matter to me as much, but
53:50
Speaker 1: at the same time makes me want to do better
53:52
Speaker 1: at my career because I want to, you know, provide
53:54
Speaker 1: and just do a good job and be a good example.
53:57
Speaker 1: But I don't care about like accolades or recognition anymore
54:00
Speaker 1: because it's like the only thing that matters is that
54:02
Speaker 1: this dude is happy and yeah, adjusted and stuff.
54:06
Speaker 3: It's awesome you're getting that experience.
54:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the sappiest thing that I can say
54:11
Speaker 1: about it too, is that I definitely I feel like
54:17
Speaker 1: there's a capacity for love that I had my whole life.
54:20
Speaker 1: But it's never been entirely safe to turn that like
54:25
Speaker 1: high beam all the way on. I think, you know,
54:27
Speaker 1: because relationships are complicated and you know, we all have
54:31
Speaker 1: some defenses up. So then to have like a baby
54:34
Speaker 1: and it's like, oh wait a minute, like the to
54:37
Speaker 1: turn on the sort of love beam all the way
54:40
Speaker 1: like without any need to sort of hide any of it.
54:44
Speaker 1: It's really like a beautiful experience. And I love that
54:47
Speaker 1: little dude so much. It's crazy.
54:49
Speaker 3: Oh did it take you a while? I've heard that
54:52
Speaker 3: sometimes with dads it can take a little while for
54:56
Speaker 3: that connection to form. No, or was it instantaneous?
55:01
Speaker 2: No?
55:01
Speaker 1: But I believe in kind of like normalizing the fact
55:03
Speaker 1: that that happens, because yeah, I've heard that, Like I've
55:05
Speaker 1: heard it happens from moms too, sometimes they don't have
55:07
Speaker 1: a bond, and so I I think it's important to
55:10
Speaker 1: kind of like say that that's totally reasonable and talk
55:12
Speaker 1: about it and you know, but no, I immediately felt
55:16
Speaker 1: a huge magnetism and connection to him.
55:20
Speaker 3: Amazing, amazing. Congratulations. Yeah, well, thanks so much, Paul. I
55:25
Speaker 3: appreciate you for hanging out for so long.
55:28
Speaker 1: My pleasure. Yeah great, thank you.
55:32
Speaker 2: Thanks again to Paul Banks for talking about the making
55:34
Speaker 2: of Antics and his creative writing process over the years.
55:38
Speaker 2: You can hear our favorite Interpol songs, along with some
55:40
Speaker 2: of Paul's solo material on a playlist at broken record
55:43
Speaker 2: podcast dot com. Subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube
55:47
Speaker 2: dot com slash broken Record Podcast, where you can find
55:50
Speaker 2: all of our new episodes.
55:53
Speaker 1: You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record.
55:55
Speaker 2: Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with
55:58
Speaker 2: marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer
56:02
Speaker 2: is Ben Tolladay. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries.
56:07
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56:24
Speaker 2: to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app
56:27
Speaker 2: are theme music's by Anny Beats.
56:29
Speaker 1: I'm Justin Richmond,