Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / Random Heathen Ramblings: S5, EP35 - How Much Of Germanic Heathenry Was "Claimed" By The Christian Church? [feat. Robert Sass]

Transcript

Random Heathen Ramblings: S5, EP35 - How Much Of Germanic Heathenry Was "Claimed" By The Christian Church? [feat. Robert Sass] · Random Heathen Ramblings

• 0:01
  Hello everyone, and welcome to the Random Heathen Ramblings
• 0:04
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• 0:07
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  And yeah, another quick announcement too, in terms of
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  As most of you know, I'm good friends with the Chieftain of
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  the Raven Moon Hearth Kindred kind of based out of
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  Springfield, TN Nashville, a little bit north of Nashville.
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  But every year they do a annual fall autumn, you know, event in
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  in October called Shadowmoot. Things are going to be a little
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  down below as well or in the show notes area, but it's going
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  to be a one day event. I believe the weekend of October
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  12th. So the specific date for that is
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  going to be exactly October 12th in Murfreesboro, TN at the
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  Barfield Crescent Park. So a little bit different this
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  year. There won't be vendors for those
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  of you interested are thinking about coming out and and and
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  meeting some folks in the in the community.
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  This is a great opportunity. There's no charge for you to
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  But it's going to be a little bit different this year.
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  So because it's in a park and there's no vendors, there's no,
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  historical Heathen Sumble. There's going to be other folks
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  doing classes as well. So again, the event details will
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  you know, view them and hope to see out there.
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  It's good opportunity for folks that are maybe new to the area
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  or looking to connect with people to come out for a full
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  day of fellowship and conversation and, you know, good
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  times. So yeah, I think that's about it
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  dollar, watch some videos and then not renew, you can do that.
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  But anyway, now that we've. Got all that stuff out the way.
• 7:37
  We're going to be joined today. Well, with my guest today is
• 7:40
  Robert Sass from the Alt Sidhu Saxon Heathenry community.
• 7:46
  Alt sidhu.com Alt Sidhu meaning old ways Heathenry in Old Saxon.
• 7:51
  So this is a, a reconstructionist approach to
• 7:54
  Heathenry. And, and, and Robert's been on
• 7:56
  the show a couple of times before.
• 7:59
  If you go in through and look at previous episodes, you know, you
• 8:02
  should be able to just, you know, do a search for, you know,
• 8:08
  Robert Sasse, it should come up. But I'll try to post our
• 8:12
  previous episodes in the, in the description and show notes for
• 8:15
  you folks just for as a quick reference so you can know right
• 8:17
  where to go for it, or at least, you know, on Spotify.
• 8:21
  So, but yeah, he come, he's going to be coming on today
• 8:24
  because I wanted to get, I wanted him to come on here and,
• 8:27
  and talk about a topic that he's been very, he's gone into a lot
• 8:31
  of lengths and he's he's gone to great lengths in, in, in pretty
• 8:35
  good detail on the historical research end of things with
• 8:41
  regards to did you know, did what's the right word?
• 8:45
  Like how much of Heathenry was quote, UN quote, claimed or
• 8:49
  adopted or appropriated or whatever you want to call it by
• 8:52
  Christians from a historical point of view?
• 8:56
  And again, we're we're talking today with Robert Sasse, who is
• 8:59
  an old ways heathen, a Saxon heathen.
• 9:02
  And so that's going to be our focus.
• 9:05
  I know a lot of folks in my community on on the Facebook
• 9:08
  page especially have been very vocal when we announced this,
• 9:12
  this this episode coming up here in terms of, you know, did the
• 9:16
  Christians claim or steal things when it comes to like ritual
• 9:20
  customs, etcetera from heathens? And everybody is pretty much
• 9:25
  giving like a resounding, unequivocal yes, they did.
• 9:29
  And I did kind of allude to the fact that you know what, what
• 9:32
  we're going to be talking about with Robert today, what Robert's
• 9:34
  going to be presenting, you know, those the answers may
• 9:36
  surprise you. You may be shocked at what
• 9:38
  you're hearing. It's not to say that there are
• 9:40
  going to be nuanced things about you know what, what different
• 9:44
  religions do. I mean, it's almost hard to
• 9:47
  argue with the fact that all religions have have some
• 9:51
  similarities and nuance and their syncretism and and all
• 9:54
  that sort of thing. But we're talking today again
• 9:56
  specifically with regards to. You know the Saxon heathens,
• 9:59
  continental dramatic heathens, who then you know later who who
• 10:04
  you know became who you know, who migrated and moved and and
• 10:08
  moved N into Scandinavia and those customs became theirs.
• 10:12
  So anyway, we're. Going to be talking with Robert
• 10:14
  Sass about that today and hearing some of his not just
• 10:18
  thoughts, but his his his educated research on the topic
• 10:22
  of whether. You know, the Christians, the
• 10:25
  church have adopted or taken customs that were dramatic and
• 10:29
  claimed them as their own things like holidays, mainly holidays
• 10:34
  and, and, and things of that nature.
• 10:36
  So I hope you all enjoy this show today.
• 10:39
  And if you did rate it on the app that you're listening to
• 10:42
  this on, you know, so upvote it, download it, react to it, follow
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  me, whatever that whatever it is that you want to do to show your
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  support. If you're able to comment on the
• 10:52
  platform that you're catching this on, definitely do that.
• 10:54
  Because your thoughts about everything that we talked about
• 10:57
  today, you know, be interesting to see what you may have thought
• 11:01
  prior to catching this episode and then what your thoughts are
• 11:06
  after catching this episode. So we're going to hear a couple
• 11:10
  more words from a couple more sponsors, two or three more
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• 11:15
  year. And then we're going to welcome
• 11:17
  in. Robert sass to the show to talk
• 11:19
  this to talk about this today. So thank you all for your
• 11:22
  support. And be sure to check out the
• 11:25
  Altidou Saxon Heathen community. There's a Facebook group, Robert
• 11:30
  has a blog, altidou.com. Things are going to be linked
• 11:33
  down below for that. So check it all out if you want
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  to keep up with everything. But let's go ahead and hear a
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  couple more words from our sponsors from Fire on the
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  All right, folks, back on the podcast here for I think the
• 13:39
  third time is Robert Sass the the mind behind Al Sidhu Saxon
• 13:45
  heathenryalsidhu.com, which for those of you that are new, I
• 13:48
  mentioned earlier kind of in the intro before Robert came here.
• 13:51
  Al Sidhu is an old Saxon term that means old ways, right
• 13:54
  Robert? That is correct al for old
• 13:57
  Sidhu, meaning customs. For customs, yeah.
• 14:00
  Could be traditions. You can translate it a few
• 14:03
  different ways. Yeah and so you are again a a
• 14:08
  reconstructionist Saxon Heathen focusing your your Heathenry on
• 14:12
  the continental Germanic practices of the Saxons.
• 14:19
  And you have an online community on Facebook.
• 14:21
  Also do Saxon Heathenry as well as your blog outs to do.com.
• 14:26
  Correct. Yeah, man.
• 14:27
  So welcome back to the show. Thanks for coming back on here.
• 14:30
  It's good to have you back. Thank you, it's great to be
• 14:32
  back. I've loved the first two times.
• 14:35
  Looking forward to tonight. Excellent.
• 14:37
  Well, I've been looking forward to this.
• 14:39
  You know, I, I, I keep up with your blog, I think I get emails
• 14:43
  when you post new stuff on, on, on the website.
• 14:47
  And you know, dramatic Heathenry, it seems to be cross
• 14:50
  posted to that platform. So dramatic Heathenry is I guess
• 14:52
  the the public Facebook page where your blog gets shared to
• 14:56
  and I get those e-mail notifications when new stuff
• 14:58
  comes out. And I'm always excited to see
• 15:00
  the updates. And so, yeah, what's, what's
• 15:02
  Robert got going on now? I think most recently, in
• 15:07
  addition to the topic we're going to be talking about
• 15:08
  tonight, but most recently you were so gracious to to provide
• 15:13
  an update on the 2025 heathen calendar for both Saxon
• 15:20
  Heathens, N Heathens and Anglo-Saxon Heathens, right?
• 15:25
  Yeah, that's why the Facebook page is called Germanic
• 15:28
  Heathenry. But yet everything else is
• 15:29
  called out to do. I mean, the goal is, is to help
• 15:33
  other Germanic heathens. Also look into the sources.
• 15:38
  Maybe everyone doesn't have ancestors from the Saxons in in
• 15:42
  Germany. They might be Scandinavian or
• 15:46
  English. But you know, we want to help
• 15:50
  any Germanic Heathen understand the historical sources better.
• 15:57
  Perfect, Yeah, I do always look forward to that because, yeah, I
• 16:02
  mean, we, you, you could do, I guess like when it comes to like
• 16:05
  the, the, the calendar, the heathen calendars, you know
• 16:07
  what, anybody could technically do the math quote, UN quote by
• 16:12
  knowing that the dramatic heathens reckoned time on a Luna
• 16:17
  solar based system, a Luna solar calendar.
• 16:20
  So they're, you know, their months were moons.
• 16:23
  Their, their, they, they would count their they wouldn't say
• 16:25
  days. It was, you know, nights, nights
• 16:27
  preceded the day. So the way they reckon time was,
• 16:31
  was very specific. And, you know, anybody could
• 16:32
  really say do the math or figure it out.
• 16:34
  But we, I, I personally want to say thank you for taking the
• 16:37
  time to update the blogs to give a really quick reference point
• 16:41
  for people that are looking to follow a historical approach to
• 16:48
  the time reckoning when the holy days are and so on and so.
• 16:51
  Forth. So it's a, if you don't mind me
• 16:53
  commenting on that, I have for the last three years tried to
• 16:57
  look at the moon daily. I mean, some days it's cloudy
• 17:00
  and you can't see it. But the point is, is if you grew
• 17:04
  up in a world that didn't have watches and Google calendars,
• 17:09
  they could look in the sky and see where the moon was and know
• 17:12
  what day of the moon it was like.
• 17:15
  The moon is a very good piece to tell time.
• 17:19
  And today we need calendars like that because we live in
• 17:25
  Gregorian calendar world. You know, today is September the
• 17:28
  9th. There's no getting around it.
• 17:31
  And the world's not changing no matter what our religion is,
• 17:36
  Jewish, Christian, Islamic, Pagan, Al Sidhu Foreign said.
• 17:42
  The world is going to continue doing the current seven day week
• 17:46
  and the current calendar. And it's just that's the way it
• 17:49
  is. So to really live in a world
• 17:53
  where you're really relying on signs of nature to tell you the
• 17:57
  time is very different in thought.
• 18:01
  And I would almost encourage people to look at the moon every
• 18:04
  day and use this website called Moon Page.
• 18:08
  It's not a website of mine, but it shows pictures of the moon
• 18:11
  and it tells you what its shape is, if it's waning or waxing.
• 18:16
  And you can learn by looking at the moon daily to start
• 18:19
  thinking, boy, how did the heathen see the moon 1300 years
• 18:23
  ago? I mean, go ahead people, and try
• 18:26
  it. Yeah, it's a good.
• 18:28
  Practice moon page. Moon page.
• 18:31
  Like it's moonpage.com I just type in moon page and now it
• 18:33
  shows up. But I'm almost positive it's
• 18:35
  moonpage.com. It gives a picture of the moon
• 18:38
  and it'll say if it's waning or waxing and you can look at it
• 18:41
  and then go in the sky and compare.
• 18:44
  Yeah, Yep, I found it right there.
• 18:45
  I'll post the link for the listeners and the viewers there
• 18:48
  if they want to check it out. But yeah, it's moonpage.com and
• 18:52
  yeah, you're absolutely right. It gives the current stage of or
• 18:56
  phase, whatever the, the moon right now, as of the as of the
• 19:00
  as of the date of this recording, it is waxing Crescent
• 19:03
  36.68% full as of as of today, again, September 9th.
• 19:11
  So yeah, very cool. Thanks for for dropping that
• 19:13
  information. I'll I'll put that down below
• 19:15
  for folks. Yeah.
• 19:17
  And as we discuss how the church did the church borrow Heathenry,
• 19:22
  this, this is a point because a Roman calendar is 100% solar and
• 19:29
  the Romans borrowed it from Egypt.
• 19:31
  So, you know, we'll discuss it more as we go.
• 19:35
  What did the Germanic heathens know before the Roman army
• 19:39
  started to come north? Yeah.
• 19:41
  And I did want to make sure that like as I mentioned before, you
• 19:43
  came on here, right? Like obviously you're a Saxon
• 19:45
  Heathen. The, the, the topic, the thing
• 19:48
  that we're talking about is very specific to Heathenry, which is
• 19:52
  Germanic dramatic paganism. I mean, that's what we, we've,
• 19:57
  we've come to know it as is, is a polytheistic or a helotheistic
• 20:02
  belief system of, by the Germans of the Germanic peoples.
• 20:06
  So for, for folks that are listening to this that maybe
• 20:08
  want to comment about again, you know, and, and trying to like
• 20:12
  use this as an umbrella term of paganism.
• 20:14
  We're we're, we're, we're focusing on a specific thing,
• 20:17
  dramatic paganism, dramatic Heathenry to be more specific.
• 20:22
  And yeah, so. We, we are going to be talking
• 20:25
  about, you know, the, the question at hand was, you know,
• 20:27
  did this, did the, did the Christians or did Christianity
• 20:31
  steal appropriate claim their, their practices from an older
• 20:38
  Pagan belief system, the heathen way of, of the Germanic peoples?
• 20:43
  And by and large that when, when posting this to my community,
• 20:46
  Robert, right, by and large, the popular response was, Oh yes,
• 20:49
  absolutely everything that was, was heathen was, was
• 20:54
  appropriated or stolen or claimed by the church.
• 20:57
  And I, and I kind of prefaced that the question or ended the
• 21:00
  question with, Hey, you know what we're going to be talking
• 21:03
  about today might surprise some of you.
• 21:05
  There are some folks in the comment section on my page that
• 21:08
  are like, well, some yes and no. Like I'm seeing some, some
• 21:12
  comments that are saying, you know, not all, but some, you
• 21:16
  know, things like that. But you have a pretty, you know,
• 21:21
  in depth, educated, researched response to this on your blog
• 21:28
  site, which you want to talk about now, which is how much of
• 21:32
  Saxon heathenry was claimed, quote UN quote, claimed by the
• 21:35
  church. And again, we're talking about
• 21:37
  the Roman Catholic Church, the, the, the Roman Empire as it
• 21:40
  expanded and became a force in, in Europe at the time, right?
• 21:46
  Yeah. So let me begin by saying, you
• 21:47
  know, my whole life I've been searching for truth.
• 21:51
  Now we're not looking for truth per SE as heathens, so to speak,
• 21:57
  but to me, I really totally want to truly very sincere understand
• 22:05
  what pre Christian sex and heathenry was.
• 22:10
  And I'm also very interested in the other Germanic tribes
• 22:13
  because they're more similar than they're different.
• 22:18
  So to me it is a very sincere search for truth in the sense of
• 22:24
  historical fact. I'm looking at it from an
• 22:26
  academic point of view out of great interest.
• 22:30
  And also I want to understand their world view, you know,
• 22:34
  because I hate to say it. The victors write the history,
• 22:39
  and, you know, we have, you know, two Adaic poems.
• 22:44
  Well, one is clearly Snorri, and some debate how much of stories
• 22:49
  in the elder Atta. But really, Snorri's only
• 22:53
  responsible for one, and he's certainly a Christian.
• 22:56
  So we have to look at our heathenry through the lens of
• 23:02
  Christianity and that can be difficult.
• 23:06
  But I find that if you look and you take the time, you will find
• 23:12
  historical facts that show very clearly, especially in Saxony,
• 23:17
  that the Christians absolutely wanted 0 heathenry in the
• 23:21
  church. And let me put it this way, the
• 23:26
  Saxon Wars was a 33 year war. It began with the destruction of
• 23:32
  the erman Sewell according to the Frankish records in 772.
• 23:36
  But the archaeology says that before the erman Sewell was
• 23:40
  sacked, the Saxon holy site called Thunor's Well was sacked.
• 23:44
  So archaeologically they went to the two most holy Saxon sites
• 23:50
  1st and attacked them first. If the church is willing to kill
• 23:56
  heathens and destroy holy sites, burn down sacred Groves, take
• 24:02
  some of the wood that they didn't burn, build churches out
• 24:05
  of them and bury Christian dead there.
• 24:09
  If they are murdering heathens in a religious war, which is it?
• 24:14
  Are they trying to borrow from Heathenry or are they trying to
• 24:17
  kill Heathenry? Yeah, they it's a yeah.
• 24:19
  Are they trying to erase that memory that, that, that
• 24:21
  footprint on the world versus Yeah, yeah.
• 24:27
  And I guess let me kind of sort of start over, I think if you
• 24:31
  study the history of the church. And look, I did start a PHDI
• 24:37
  have a master's degree in archaeology, biblical
• 24:41
  archaeology. I didn't leave the Abrahamic
• 24:45
  faith until I was 25 S because I have a biblical archaeological
• 24:52
  background and master's degree in it.
• 24:56
  I understand the history and I wanted to start by saying the
• 25:01
  church was very anti-Semitic. You know, if you look at the
• 25:05
  Gospels, and this is very important to understand from
• 25:07
  even a heathen perspective, John chapter 10, verse 23, Jesus is
• 25:13
  celebrating Hanukkah, but the church doesn't want you to know
• 25:17
  that the the Passover that Jesus did had to be renamed to the
• 25:22
  Last Supper. A phrase that's in the title of
• 25:26
  your Bibles, like a title above a paragraph.
• 25:29
  But that phrase is not in the Greek anywhere.
• 25:31
  It's inserted as titles into biblical chapters.
• 25:35
  And my point is, is early on, what scholars call the Proto
• 25:40
  Orthodox, because you have 32 gospels, only four of which made
• 25:43
  it into the New Testament. You've got 28 gospels that have
• 25:47
  very different opinions. Is Jesus God, is he human?
• 25:51
  Was he born of a virgin? You know, these early people
• 25:56
  didn't agree. So the Proto Orthodox are the
• 25:58
  people in Rome and Byzantium who became the Orthodox churches in
• 26:02
  the East and the West, and they were not interested in having
• 26:09
  biblical holidays. So very early on, while the
• 26:14
  people were just starting to accept Christianity in parts of
• 26:20
  Europe, they were not willing to accept the holidays that Jesus
• 26:25
  kept. So hold on, just just for the
• 26:28
  sake of clarity, you say biblical holidays, you're
• 26:30
  talking about Judaic holy days, right, Because they had their,
• 26:36
  they had certain holy tides that were you say, like Old Testament
• 26:41
  or, or again, the way that the, the, the Israelites, the the
• 26:45
  Jews kept, right? Right.
• 26:49
  So Jesus, Jesus was a Jew. He went to synagogue, he didn't
• 26:55
  go to church, right? They didn't exist yet.
• 26:58
  They didn't exist. Right.
• 26:59
  And he went to a a Jewish temple.
• 27:02
  The religion that he kept was Judaism.
• 27:05
  Christianity is a very different religion.
• 27:07
  People say they're the same but one is ethno religious based on
• 27:12
  an ethnicity and the precepts and what Christians call the old
• 27:18
  and irrelevant testament. And then you have the new and
• 27:22
  relevant testament according to the church that changes
• 27:24
  everything. And one of the changes they
• 27:26
  made, and the point I'm trying to make is the early church did
• 27:31
  not want these holidays that Jesus kept because they are
• 27:35
  considered, even though they're biblical, they're Old Testament.
• 27:40
  So early on you have the East and the Western church and
• 27:44
  naturally just like heathen groups today, you have one group
• 27:47
  that says I disagree. So they do their own thing and
• 27:50
  sometimes they do things just to be different.
• 27:53
  The same is true with the East and the West because you have
• 27:55
  the West Christ Mass on the Julian calendar solstice, but
• 28:00
  the Greek Orthodox Church says no way.
• 28:02
  So their Christ Mass is on a different date.
• 28:05
  So you have to really understand if you look at it historically,
• 28:08
  the early Christians did not agree.
• 28:12
  So to say Christmas is a direct borrowing from paganism.
• 28:17
  When the Byzantium church was much bigger in the past than the
• 28:22
  Roman church was, these churches didn't agree.
• 28:27
  The only thing that they agreed on was that the Jews were bad
• 28:32
  and they were right and the Jews were wrong.
• 28:35
  So we're going to make new holidays.
• 28:38
  And early on there was some borrowing of Roman and Greek
• 28:44
  Pagan ideas. But once the church became
• 28:48
  orthodox, when Constantine the emperor, and I think it was 323,
• 28:52
  I might have the date wrong. I'm probably right, but I might
• 28:54
  be wrong. I I don't study this stuff over
• 28:56
  and over again anymore. I just remember it.
• 28:58
  But Constantine declared Christianity be the religion of
• 29:02
  Rome. That was a turning point because
• 29:05
  then Christianity became more and more established.
• 29:08
  I mean, the Council of Nicaea and other councils closed the
• 29:13
  Canon of the New Testament. The New Testament wasn't even
• 29:15
  closed until the 5th century. So Christianity was taking a
• 29:19
  long time to define itself and it wasn't sitting back trying to
• 29:22
  figure out, let's just borrow from Roman and Greek paganism to
• 29:27
  get people to come in. They were thinking very
• 29:30
  differently. They were actually looking at
• 29:31
  clues in the Gospel to try to figure out when Christ was born,
• 29:35
  literally. Now, of course, that he wasn't
• 29:37
  born on December 25th or January 6th, but they were far more
• 29:42
  interested in doing that pursuits.
• 29:46
  And you know, Craigenford does a very good video on this.
• 29:50
  So does Religion for Breakfast. Laying out all the historical
• 29:53
  documents of the church that talks about this was the process
• 29:59
  and how it gradually became the date.
• 30:03
  And certainly Saturnalia and the Mithras cult played a role.
• 30:09
  Yeah. Exactly.
• 30:11
  But that is Roman paganism. That is not right.
• 30:14
  You know, Germanic heathenry to the north?
• 30:17
  Yeah. So by the time the church was
• 30:20
  coming up north, and now we can start really talking about
• 30:23
  Heathenry. By the time the church was
• 30:25
  making its way N into the Germanic lands, the Christmas
• 30:31
  had been accepted by both the East and the West for 300 years
• 30:34
  at that point. Yeah.
• 30:37
  So which I mean, if you want to put into context like where we
• 30:40
  are now in our modern history, think about 300 years ago, We're
• 30:43
  talking like the Revolutionary War earlier, you know, like
• 30:48
  that's a long time ago. So put it in perspective for
• 30:52
  modern people, like think about how much time had lapsed between
• 30:56
  then at that time and the time when Christianity started to
• 31:00
  become a thing in Northern Europe, through who was it, the
• 31:04
  Franks or, or or whoever it was. So go ahead, sorry.
• 31:09
  Well, I guess continuing on this thought, you're right, 300 years
• 31:14
  is a long time because the Revolutionary War did change
• 31:17
  America, but the Civil War changed it even more.
• 31:20
  And that's even 200 years ago. And all the technology that's
• 31:24
  happened in the last, you know, America's what about to turn 250
• 31:28
  years old in a couple years, 1776 to 2026.
• 31:33
  It's, you know, America's not even 250 years old yet and a lot
• 31:37
  has happened then. So you know you're asking.
• 31:40
  As a? As a?
• 31:41
  As a like, as a, as a country, as America, Yeah, like obviously
• 31:45
  the land is older, but I know what you mean.
• 31:48
  And let me throw out some more facts as we're talking facts
• 31:50
  like this is going to sound weird at 1st and follow my
• 31:53
  logic. Most English bibles of both
• 31:56
  testaments is about 1200 pages. But if you take both at us, all
• 32:01
  the sagas, many historical sources, you're blowing away
• 32:06
  1200 pages. And the point that I'm going to
• 32:09
  make in this video of law codes that prohibit heathen behavior,
• 32:14
  we've got many the Ettas and the sagas seem to refer to three
• 32:20
  rituals over and over again. Bloat symbol, if you'd even call
• 32:24
  symbol a ritual versus a banquet and sacred Grove veneration.
• 32:30
  These are what's in the historical sources.
• 32:33
  These are the things that Christians are trying to blot
• 32:36
  out and the things that heathens are trying.
• 32:40
  Some heathens, you know, like an 8 pronged wheel, that Asatru has
• 32:46
  eight solar points. Nothing like that is even
• 32:49
  mentioned in the historical sources.
• 32:53
  We have 3 bloats mentioned. That's what we have.
• 32:58
  And I'm not here to say Christianity stinks.
• 33:04
  I'm here to say it's a very important question to ask that
• 33:10
  certain practices like Christmas trees and Easter eggs, people
• 33:13
  are saying these have Germanic heathen roots, but no one's
• 33:18
  saying, oh, bloat. Yeah, the church got rid of it.
• 33:21
  But that is the most discussed ritual in the Lord.
• 33:24
  No, no one's. I mean, it's very clear if you
• 33:28
  just read, and I understand that they're written down by
• 33:31
  Christians, but why would Christians talk about bloat?
• 33:34
  That is very heathen. There's nothing in Christianity
• 33:37
  like it. They believe that there is no
• 33:40
  Jesus's blood, Is it? Yeah, right now I was going to
• 33:44
  say like the only comparison that I could put to bloat would
• 33:49
  be the Judaic sacrifices. Because like the Levitical law
• 33:53
  and, and, and everything that we know of that the way that the
• 33:56
  Israelites sacrificed to their deity, to Yahweh, to, to, to, to
• 34:03
  right to, to Jehovah, whatever was, it was animal sacrifice.
• 34:08
  It's, it's very specific Levitical law lays out, you
• 34:12
  know, how much of this and, and what animals are to be used for
• 34:16
  this or that, for this transgression, for that crime,
• 34:18
  for this thing, that or the other way.
• 34:19
  It's all laid out. And it was the blood of the
• 34:22
  animal. It was the blood of the animal,
• 34:24
  the, the, the burnt sacrifice, right?
• 34:26
  The, it, it talks about the, the aroma, the smoke raising up to
• 34:30
  the heavens and being pleasant to the, to the Lord's nostrils
• 34:33
  or something like that. Like all these things are being
• 34:35
  talked about. And this was the, this was the,
• 34:38
  the, the religion, right, the ways, the, the ethno religious
• 34:43
  customs that are, you know, the, the Christians Jesus came from,
• 34:48
  he was, he was born through that the line of David, right, the,
• 34:52
  the lion of the tribe of Judah, all these things.
• 34:55
  So if you want to like, draw comparisons to anything, you
• 34:59
  could say that heathen bloat with what blood is included in
• 35:03
  the animal sacrifices is more akin to the Judaic well.
• 35:09
  Let me kind of jump in there. Biblical sacrifice is all in the
• 35:13
  book Leviticus, the third book in the Bible.
• 35:16
  And you hit on some very important points because there's
• 35:19
  many different sacrifices and I can give all the Hebrew names.
• 35:22
  So that's a waste of time. Let's get to the point.
• 35:24
  Sacrifice in the Hebrew Bible is about sin.
• 35:31
  Bloat to heathens is not about sin.
• 35:35
  Yeah, good point. Yep.
• 35:36
  And take Haimskringlaw, the Yinglinga Saga chapter 8, you
• 35:43
  will being a bloat for good crops.
• 35:46
  OK, the types of bloat that we see.
• 35:51
  They're making blood offerings and they're only offering the
• 35:55
  blood. I believe they're eating the
• 35:57
  food. I don't believe heathens were as
• 35:58
  wasteful as the Christians claim.
• 36:01
  And my point is, is that the blood was shared with the gods
• 36:06
  because they expected good crops to come.
• 36:08
  If they did that, they expected our our word for worth.
• 36:14
  I say worth intentionally worth ship.
• 36:18
  It's I'm going to give you a gift and I'm hoping to get
• 36:20
  something in return. Whereas the Bible is is you're
• 36:24
  sinful. Christianity is about making you
• 36:27
  feel guilty, whereas heathenry is the very opposite.
• 36:30
  It's about doing great deeds to make yourself better, not
• 36:33
  putting yourself down, being humble before the almighty,
• 36:37
  righteous, perfect God. It's about making ourselves
• 36:40
  better and better and better. So our name's Levon it it's such
• 36:44
  an opposite thought. So biblical sacrifice is quite
• 36:51
  different. And we?
• 36:53
  Haven't we? What we see is that the church
• 36:57
  has redefined sacrifice. So I'm glad that you said what
• 37:01
  you said because you have to change your whole world view or
• 37:05
  decolonize because Christians thought is so different.
• 37:10
  And we grew up in the Christian W You know, 1300 years is a lot
• 37:14
  of history to to erase even 250 years is so much to have that
• 37:20
  mindset that a human sacrifice can give us salvation.
• 37:26
  That's been the mindset until recent when now most of the West
• 37:32
  is becoming secular. Realizing this isn't really the
• 37:35
  best train of thought. You know, I don't go to a shaman
• 37:38
  anymore. If I have a cut on my leg, I go
• 37:41
  to a doctor. And I'm not meaning to knock
• 37:43
  former Pagan practices of any religion because shaman is not
• 37:48
  really a Germanic heathen word, by the way.
• 37:50
  But, you know, my point is, as we go to a doctor now, when I
• 37:56
  call my family in Germany, I don't marvel that it's amazing
• 38:00
  that they pick up the phone and they're on another side of the
• 38:02
  planet and we're both talking live.
• 38:05
  You know, it's called normal. Like we accept technology.
• 38:08
  Believe in this right here, right now, right what we're
• 38:10
  doing. So we do live in a world that is
• 38:14
  very, very, it's becoming secular, but it's still as very
• 38:19
  Christian thought. And that's why I think so many
• 38:23
  people, they really would prefer things like Easter eggs and
• 38:29
  Christmas trees to be historically Germanic heathen
• 38:35
  back 1700 years even. Because look, I'm not attacking
• 38:41
  these practices. I think they're folk traditions
• 38:45
  that Christians invented, but because the Christians can
• 38:50
  invent folk traditions too, they don't only steal traditions.
• 38:55
  They invent traditions just like any culture does.
• 39:00
  Yeah, we want things. So let me let's talk about more
• 39:04
  evidence. So yeah, I mentioned in 772 the
• 39:09
  Frankish armies come in and their goal is that there's two
• 39:12
  goals. Let's just look at it from a
• 39:15
  neutral point of view. You have a Charlemagne who wants
• 39:18
  to rule as much of the world as he can.
• 39:20
  He's like an Alex Alexander the Great or a Genghis Khan.
• 39:24
  He wants an empire. You have, yeah, you've got his
• 39:28
  lust for power, but he's also using the church.
• 39:31
  He's saying, hey, these guys are heathens to the north and we
• 39:35
  can't have them. So after 772 when they destroyed
• 39:40
  2 heathen holy sites, they start issuing some law codes.
• 39:44
  So I'm going to read some law codes for destruction or for
• 39:49
  constructive conversations. What?
• 39:53
  What exactly does the evidence state?
• 40:00
  And I had the website already and I accidentally moved it.
• 40:04
  There it is. So here's here's something.
• 40:09
  So lexx Odom law #18. On the Lord's Day, Sunday, there
• 40:16
  is to be no meetings, nor is there to be any judicial
• 40:20
  assemblies. You might want us call that
• 40:22
  thing. So you can't have thing on the
• 40:25
  Lord's Day unless there's a case of great necessity.
• 40:32
  But everyone must go to church to hear the word of God, and
• 40:36
  they must be free from for prayer and good works all day.
• 40:41
  Likewise, also on the Christian holy days, they must devote
• 40:46
  themselves to God, God singular, and to the services of the
• 40:51
  church, and refrain from any secular things.
• 40:56
  And by things I mean assembly. So you have a law that says you
• 41:01
  have to go to church. Here's another law.
• 41:05
  Law #4 If anyone out of contempt for Christianity, shall as
• 41:09
  despise the holy Lenten fast, let him be punished by death.
• 41:16
  Dang, so you can't even say we're Guild, You can't even play
• 41:19
  shield like kill him. That's pretty.
• 41:23
  That's definitive boy, right? There.
• 41:25
  So let me ask those who want to say, oh, the heathenry was
• 41:30
  brought in by the church. It doesn't seem that the Church
• 41:33
  is compromising here. You know, if anyone of the race
• 41:38
  of the Saxons law #8 if any of the race of the Saxons hereafter
• 41:43
  conceals themselves to be unbaptized and they wish to
• 41:50
  remain Pagan, they will be punished by death.
• 41:56
  Likewise, lex exonum 19 law #19 It has been pleasing to the
• 42:02
  Lord, the Christian Lord, of course, to insert in these
• 42:04
  decrees that all infants must be baptized within a year.
• 42:08
  They must. It's very, it's very interesting
• 42:12
  because here it's not worried like the Christian Church, like,
• 42:14
  you know, if if a baby dies before it's baptized, that
• 42:18
  baby's going to spend a long time in purgatory.
• 42:21
  They're not worrying about purgatory.
• 42:22
  They're worrying about the Saxons getting their babies
• 42:25
  baptized to be Christians #21 this is a very good one.
• 42:32
  If anyone shall have made a vow at springs or trees, or in
• 42:37
  sacred Groves, or if they made any offerings in the manner of
• 42:42
  the heathen, or have taken in a repast in honor of demons,
• 42:47
  obviously they call Thor and Woden demons.
• 42:50
  Yeah. The noble has to pay 60 solely,
• 42:54
  the freeman 30 and the peasant 15, and if they can't pay at
• 43:00
  once, they're going to be given into the service of the church
• 43:03
  until all are paid. So enslavement.
• 43:08
  Yeah. And by the way, there is a law,
• 43:10
  I don't have it in front of me, but one of the 32 laws given is
• 43:13
  that one out of every 60 Saxon men and one out of every 60
• 43:18
  Saxon women are to be given to the church as slaves eternally
• 43:24
  as a part of forced tithing of slaves to the church.
• 43:30
  Wow. And this is all happening during
• 43:33
  when like in terms of the the time frame of of history, this
• 43:37
  is happening after the desecration of of the Saxon holy
• 43:41
  sites. So this is before the year.
• 43:46
  This came in the year There's 6 total capitularies, but the
• 43:50
  first one came in seven, 82782, which is exactly 10 years after
• 43:56
  the Urman Sewell and Thor's Oak were destroyed.
• 43:59
  Yeah, so they're hitting, they're striking the iron while
• 44:01
  it's hot. Effectively they, they've,
• 44:05
  they've made the statement that we're, we're, we're, we're
• 44:08
  trying to erase, we're trying to again remove mention or memory
• 44:14
  or the footprint of these heathen ways in the land.
• 44:17
  And oh, by the way, now here's a law or a set of laws that under
• 44:23
  pain of death, you need to abide by.
• 44:29
  Yeah, and here's another thing, 'cause I probably should read
• 44:32
  some of these a little slower, like I read Lexx onum #18 if I
• 44:37
  read this slowly so people can digest it on the Christian
• 44:41
  holidays, they will devote themselves to God and the
• 44:44
  service of the Church and refrain from secular assemblies
• 44:50
  or thing. So my point is, this is a law
• 44:53
  saying we already know what the Christian holidays are and the
• 44:56
  Saxons are going to go to them. The law isn't saying we're going
• 45:00
  to add some holidays under the banner of Saints Days or
• 45:05
  whatever. It's saying these are already
• 45:08
  established and the Saxons must attend.
• 45:12
  Yeah, we're not trying to. We're not trying to make you
• 45:15
  think that you're doing something of a Saxon or Heathen
• 45:18
  model or way. We're saying the hell with all
• 45:22
  that, you're done. Do it this way or else.
• 45:27
  Yes, absolutely. I really think historical
• 45:32
  Germanic Heathenry, not just of the Saxons.
• 45:35
  Even Tacitus talks about it in in the 1st century that the
• 45:40
  Germanic tribes felt the new moons in the full moons were the
• 45:45
  holiest times. They were in the sacred Groves
• 45:50
  at those times. They were doing bloats at the
• 45:53
  beginning of winter, midwinter, beginning of summer, and
• 45:59
  whenever they felt like it. I mean, there's three major
• 46:02
  bloats, but I think heathens could bloat at any time, just
• 46:06
  like Christians could pray at any time.
• 46:09
  Sure, if they felt like worshipping, they were going to
• 46:12
  do it, but that was the faith. Bloat.
• 46:17
  Sacred Grove, veneration, typically symbol, part of the
• 46:20
  black, the banquet, the eating of the food of bloat.
• 46:24
  This is what's talked about in the sources.
• 46:27
  And while I hear passionate debate online wanting to claim
• 46:32
  things like Christmas trees or wall Purgus Knight or whatever,
• 46:36
  the passionate debate isn't. Man, bloat is amazing and it's
• 46:39
  cool. And look at all these saga
• 46:41
  passages on bloat. And this is the true meaning of
• 46:45
  Heathen bloat. I mean, I don't hear those
• 46:47
  discussions. What I hear is let's argue about
• 46:50
  how much Heathenry's in the church, and we know it's in the
• 46:54
  church. So, you know, to me, that's why
• 47:00
  I'm very passionate about this. And look, I'm human.
• 47:03
  I can't be right on everything I believe, but I am sincere.
• 47:08
  And when I read historical sources like this, the Church
• 47:13
  may have things like the the Archbishop of Bremen writes in
• 47:19
  the 10th century that these darn Saxons are still venerating in
• 47:22
  sacred Groves near on over, or, excuse me, near Hamburg.
• 47:27
  You know, I hear frustration. And when I see these, sure, I
• 47:31
  can agree with the people online that forced Christianization
• 47:35
  just didn't happen overnight. I mean, if a Muslim army
• 47:39
  conquers America today and tells secular Americans who aren't
• 47:43
  religious that you can't keep Thanksgiving or Santa Claus and
• 47:47
  Christmas trees, there's going to be people that are going to
• 47:49
  keep those Christmas trees and do a Thanksgiving dinner on the
• 47:53
  4th Thursday in November because it meant something to them,
• 47:59
  right? You can't just splot something
• 48:01
  out super fast, but you can overtime.
• 48:06
  And I'll use this historic and this makes me sick by the way.
• 48:09
  I'm not the biggest fan of Abrahamic religions, but 150
• 48:13
  years after the Saxons were forcefully converted, they were
• 48:17
  constantly attacking the Danes under the banner of
• 48:19
  Christianity, trying to force them into the church.
• 48:22
  They attacked the Sorbs trying to force them into the church.
• 48:26
  And in the People's Crusades around 1100, they were murdering
• 48:30
  Jews by the thousands in the Rhineland.
• 48:33
  I do not believe that the Saxons would have done this if unless
• 48:40
  they were forcefully converted. Yeah, I find it to be terrible
• 48:44
  that the church did teach religious hatred.
• 48:49
  It taught that it's Christianity or nothing and Christianity's
• 48:54
  disdain towards the Jews was taught to the Germanic peoples.
• 48:59
  And you have so many crusades and religious wars.
• 49:03
  I mean even the Germans in the 30 years war when some of them
• 49:07
  became Lutheran and the rest remained Catholic, they killed
• 49:10
  each other like mad. Right.
• 49:12
  Very sad. You know, what's really
• 49:15
  interesting to think about, right, is the fact, like how you
• 49:18
  were saying before with the, the, the Roman Church wanting to
• 49:24
  not adopt biblical ritual, biblical sacrifice because that,
• 49:30
  that was old. They, you know, they, they,
• 49:32
  they, they didn't want to adopt that.
• 49:34
  But one of the things that they ended up doing is, is, are, are
• 49:37
  these, these religious genocides, these, these, these,
• 49:42
  these wars that were done in the, in, in the name of
• 49:46
  religious conquest, which is if you look at like Old Testament,
• 49:51
  you know, look at like Numbers, Deuteronomy, the chronicles,
• 49:56
  like, look at everything that happened under the, the name of
• 50:01
  the, the Abrahamic God saying, go in, wipe these people out
• 50:04
  because they don't worship me. You are my people.
• 50:08
  And you're going to go in and you're going to kill every man,
• 50:11
  woman, child, beast and thing that is not adhering to me and,
• 50:16
  and, and not, you know, following me or whatever.
• 50:19
  And it's like they, they, they, they say, well, we're not going
• 50:21
  to do this this way, but we're going to do it this that way.
• 50:24
  I, I find that a very interesting conflict to, to,
• 50:29
  it's ironic in a way that they said, well, no, don't do the,
• 50:32
  the holy days the way the Jews did or the way the Israelites
• 50:36
  did, the way the tribes of Israel did.
• 50:38
  But let's go ahead and, and conquer the lands because that's
• 50:41
  what God wants us to do. Because look at what God did in,
• 50:44
  in, in those days. You know what I'm?
• 50:46
  Trying to say like I would word it this way from a monotheistic
• 50:51
  standpoint. If look, I'm not asking are we
• 50:55
  our listeners to read the Bible, but Joshua chapter 6 and Joshua
• 50:59
  Chapter 7, the 6th book of the Bible, Israel has commanded to
• 51:03
  walk around the city of Jericho seven days, one time for six
• 51:07
  days and on the 7th day they March around Jericho 7 times.
• 51:12
  God then knocks down the walls and he says you're going to kill
• 51:16
  every infant, every child, every man, every woman, every animal
• 51:22
  in the city. And yet all the Abrahamic
• 51:27
  religions claim that God is Omni, benevolent, all loving.
• 51:34
  You know the second thing I would say, look how they changed
• 51:39
  Passover. Jesus does a Passover Seder and
• 51:44
  Passover happens once a year for seven days according to the book
• 51:47
  of Leviticus chapter 23 starting I think verse 5 through 14 or
• 51:51
  something, right? This is changed to be a mass
• 51:55
  every Sunday where Christ is turned into a wafer.
• 52:00
  In the, in the, in the, the Catholic, in the, I think even
• 52:03
  Methodist sects or or versions of Christianity, right, so.
• 52:09
  Even the Orthodox, the Greek Orthodox do do Mass every
• 52:13
  Sunday. Yeah, because every Sunday is
• 52:15
  the new Passover. They're doing the Last Supper in
• 52:18
  every Mass. Yeah, the cornerstone of
• 52:21
  Heathenry is bloat. The cornerstone of early
• 52:24
  Christianity until Protestantism was born, was a Mass.
• 52:27
  What is the center of Mass? It's the communion ceremony and
• 52:31
  all the blessings the priest does to change the wafer and the
• 52:35
  wine into the body and blood of Christ, Right?
• 52:38
  It's a very different religion than keeping a Passover, which
• 52:42
  is about deliverance for a nation of Israel that was
• 52:45
  supposedly not archaeologically, but they were supposedly
• 52:49
  delivered from Egypt, which is proven myth.
• 52:52
  It's not historical archaeology has completely disproved it, but
• 52:56
  it is Israel's origin myth. Yeah, yeah, I just, I find it so
• 53:03
  interesting that there's again, if if I have to repeat or
• 53:08
  reiterate, like Robertson, my sentiment on on this discussion
• 53:12
  on on this episode is not to. We're not trying to teach
• 53:17
  Christianity. But we're not.
• 53:18
  Trying to say it's different from heathen.
• 53:20
  Yeah, and, and we're also not trying to, again, we're not,
• 53:23
  it's this isn't Christian bashing.
• 53:25
  OK? I've, I've, I've maintained a
• 53:27
  position on my platform and on my podcast that, you know, just
• 53:30
  because I'm heathen doesn't mean that I'm anti Christian or
• 53:34
  anti-Semitic or anything like that.
• 53:35
  I'm not, we're not. This isn't about that.
• 53:38
  This is a sort of educated the discussion and and just a a
• 53:42
  realization of let's look at facts.
• 53:45
  Let's look at things that we know have been proven through
• 53:50
  evidence through through archaeological through what's
• 53:54
  the other word academic research and things that we know for
• 53:57
  sure. These are facts.
• 54:01
  It's it's the truth as it stands right now.
• 54:03
  So we're, we're not, again, it's not disparaging to, to, to
• 54:06
  people that may catch this to, to say, you know, Christianity,
• 54:08
  look at you bastards. You're a bunch of blood, you
• 54:11
  know, hungry warmongers or anything like that.
• 54:14
  Like that's not what we're going into in, in, in the context of,
• 54:18
  of the conversation at a time, at a period.
• 54:23
  Wait, wait. A long time ago, it was nasty.
• 54:26
  If I were to. Brutal.
• 54:28
  If I were to ask a basic question to many people that say
• 54:32
  the church kept Heathenry, what I'd like to ask them is in a
• 54:36
  Christian mass, how much bloat and some bull and sacred Grove
• 54:41
  veneration can you find in it? Well, I've attended Catholic
• 54:44
  Mass and I've, I've, I've maintained the, the opinion
• 54:49
  that, you know, Catholicism is, is, is just, it's, it's paganism
• 54:53
  in denial. There, there.
• 54:55
  There's so much repetitive things that that that echo a
• 54:58
  Pagan approach to, to ritual. You call the gods Saints, this
• 55:03
  or that, whatever it there. There's elements to the ritual
• 55:08
  of Mass that would be seem similar, especially for somebody
• 55:12
  who's who's gone through it and is introduced into the paganism
• 55:15
  in any sort of way that would say, well, there's, there's
• 55:16
  nuance, there's, there's syncretism, there's, there's
• 55:18
  something similar about the practice, the process, the
• 55:22
  Ritual of Mass that echoes Pagan ritual.
• 55:29
  South European, Roman and Greek. I would.
• 55:35
  I would accept that. Not because I've studied.
• 55:37
  I'd love to talk to Doctor Andrew Henry on this, who runs
• 55:41
  Religion for Breakfast. He's a fantastic scholar.
• 55:46
  Good Chandler? Yeah, good stuff.
• 55:47
  Yeah, I'd love to ask him. What's our comparison to the
• 55:53
  Miss Mithras cult in Saturnalia in both the Orthodox, the Greek
• 55:58
  Orthodox and the Roman Church? You know, 'cause there might be
• 56:02
  some there, but I certainly don't see bloat and symbol in
• 56:09
  Christian masses. So when when I argue that I
• 56:13
  don't see Heathenry, I look at, I like to use the word heathen
• 56:17
  to be more Germanic and Pagan to be more Latin.
• 56:22
  So when I'm saying I don't see Heathenry in the church, that
• 56:25
  doesn't mean I don't see Roman and Greek and Southern European
• 56:30
  paganism in the church. Right, yeah.
• 56:35
  And that's what I kind of preface this all with a with
• 56:37
  this episode is again, we, we, we're, we're, we're trying to,
• 56:41
  to, to focus on the, the Germanic Heathenry, which I had
• 56:46
  a comment on my page from from a friend of mine who was like, so
• 56:49
  is Heathenry and paganism the same thing?
• 56:51
  I'm like, no, we, we, we, we, we're using Heathenry in the
• 56:53
  term of a Germanic, pre Christian, Germanic beliefs.
• 56:58
  Paganism is kind of an umbrella term or can be an umbrella term
• 57:01
  within a lot of different cultures.
• 57:03
  I mean, you got, you know, Celtic paganism, you've got
• 57:05
  Indian, you know, Asiatic, you've got all these different
• 57:09
  cultures that have a non traditional, non monothy,
• 57:13
  polytheistic or hylotheistic hylotheistic belief system that
• 57:17
  could be categorized as Pagan. But yeah, it's, it's to say that
• 57:21
  Heathenry, like, like what you're saying, Robert, is, you
• 57:25
  know, to say that Heathenry is in the church.
• 57:27
  I, I don't think so. I I I I I don't it's.
• 57:33
  Christmas and Easter were established long hundreds of
• 57:37
  years before. Long before the.
• 57:38
  Germanic peoples. And they had their own thing.
• 57:41
  They had their own. I mean, Yule was its own thing
• 57:43
  aside from and separate from the Christmas celebration.
• 57:47
  I mean, when did, when did, when did you'll become aligned with
• 57:50
  the, the, the, the Christmas celebration was it?
• 57:54
  Very easy, Hakan the good. Yeah, OK.
• 57:57
  So in the saga of Hakan the good it tells a story can see Hakan
• 58:02
  was you know, if if people like the TV show Vikings look at King
• 58:07
  Harold in that TV show that is the Vikings version of Harold
• 58:11
  Fairhair. He did become the first king of
• 58:16
  all Norway. And when he passed his first
• 58:20
  son, I think it was Eric blood acts.
• 58:22
  I could be wrong, but Hogan was the second son and the second
• 58:29
  son was very Christian and he grew up in a monastery in
• 58:35
  England and he came back and the the saga of Hulk and the good
• 58:41
  talks about him wanting to spread Christianity throughout
• 58:45
  all of Norway. And in that saga.
• 58:50
  It's it's a very clear story that Hulk a note then the first
• 58:56
  night of Yule was moved to be at the same time as when the
• 59:00
  Christians did Christmas, which states that proves that these
• 59:04
  two were at different times and that's how you will became the
• 59:10
  title various spellings throughout Scandinavia, but
• 59:14
  that's how you will became the title for Christmas.
• 59:17
  That doesn't mean that Christmas is a Germanic heathen.
• 59:21
  You will. Right.
• 59:22
  It just means that the title for it can be because they still use
• 59:28
  Christmas still. In Scandinavia, Christmas is a
• 59:33
  midnight mass on the 24th going into the 25th.
• 59:38
  The Pope does it if you're Roman Catholic, I I don't recall if
• 59:43
  the Greek Orthodox, the head of that church, the pontiff, does a
• 59:47
  mass and the 5th going into the 6th at midnight.
• 59:50
  But that's what the Christ Mass is.
• 59:52
  It's a midnight mass led by the Pope.
• 59:57
  So really, Christmas is a mass. It's not about a bloat in a
• 1:00:02
  sacred Grove followed by a symbol in a wine hall.
• 1:00:07
  It's a mass in Latin until the council of 2nd Vatican 2 when
• 1:00:15
  now the vernacular was allowed. But these masses were in Latin
• 1:00:19
  which probably didn't please your average person who didn't
• 1:00:23
  know. Just like if you don't know
• 1:00:24
  Latin today it would mean nothing to you, but if you're a
• 1:00:27
  Germanic person you don't know Latin.
• 1:00:29
  That mass probably is. Like this is boring.
• 1:00:32
  Yeah, yeah. You're just kind of going
• 1:00:35
  through the motions, if anything, without getting
• 1:00:39
  anything out of it, which you know, you're.
• 1:00:42
  Forced to sit there. Yeah, right, yeah, you're forced
• 1:00:45
  to be there Yeah, just it the obligatory presence that you
• 1:00:50
  know, oh, it's that time of year again or whatever.
• 1:00:53
  I got to show up, got to pay my respects, got to got to do the
• 1:00:56
  thing whatever. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:59
  There's no, there's no spirit behind it by having to be there
• 1:01:03
  by, you know, through, through, through means of being forced
• 1:01:07
  into it, you know. I think one other thing we
• 1:01:10
  should discuss is the Battle of Tours.
• 1:01:15
  So if you don't know what that is, you know when Islam was
• 1:01:18
  born. And I don't know as much about
• 1:01:20
  Islam as I do about Christianity and Judaism, but Islam is very
• 1:01:24
  militant. You had a Medina camp and a
• 1:01:26
  Mecca camp and they went to war and Mecca won.
• 1:01:31
  And the Quran is about conquering the world for Islam.
• 1:01:34
  So Islam means peace. Salaam is the word for peace.
• 1:01:39
  Islam is a related word but yet it's militant.
• 1:01:44
  So what is the battle of tours? You have the Christian Franks
• 1:01:47
  who's the the first tribe to fully embrace The first Germanic
• 1:01:51
  tribe to fully embrace Christianity with King Ludwig or
• 1:01:55
  Clovis 490-7500 ish. But nonetheless, Islam is
• 1:02:01
  conquering North Africa, the entire Levant, much of Eastern
• 1:02:07
  Europe. They're committing atrocities
• 1:02:10
  against Christians. They're very militant.
• 1:02:12
  They've conquered all of Spain and now they're marching
• 1:02:15
  through, you know what used to be Gaul, but now we call it
• 1:02:18
  France cause the Franks are a Germanic tribe more in Belgium
• 1:02:22
  and central Germany that bequeath their name to Gaul,
• 1:02:25
  which is now France. But you have a battle between, I
• 1:02:31
  know the last part of his name that some of the Arabic names
• 1:02:34
  I'm not versed in, but Al Rafiki versus Charles Martel, the
• 1:02:39
  grandson of Charlemagne. Oh yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:42
  This is a battle that determined the history of Europe.
• 1:02:45
  I mean the pagans were doomed. You won't read this in history
• 1:02:49
  books but just think about it. History books praised Charles
• 1:02:52
  Martel for defeating Islam and being thankful that Europe
• 1:02:56
  became Christian, sparing us from a horrific conversion to
• 1:03:00
  Islam. But yet because the Franks won
• 1:03:04
  that battle, they then did what Islam was going to do to the
• 1:03:09
  Germanic peoples. They brought their armies up
• 1:03:12
  north. So the Battle of Tours is
• 1:03:14
  important for two reasons. One, it's about which religion
• 1:03:18
  is going to control Europe. But it also has it explains a
• 1:03:23
  Christian mindset where while the church is can define what
• 1:03:27
  Orthodoxy is now Christian Orthodoxy in the East and the
• 1:03:31
  West. Anyways, in their mind, Europe
• 1:03:35
  was still up in the air. Islam was a real threat and that
• 1:03:40
  is why the Franks were in a sense brutal.
• 1:03:44
  One the army attacking him was brutal and two they worried
• 1:03:49
  about the heathens even though the heathens had no scripture
• 1:03:52
  that says go kill the non Germanic people but they still
• 1:03:57
  feared the heathen. That's why their gods are called
• 1:04:02
  demons, and they would fear any demonic sorts of activities
• 1:04:08
  given to demons in the church. They didn't want these because
• 1:04:13
  to them it was life and death. Like many scholars, for example,
• 1:04:17
  the book of Beowulf, say there's themes in Beowulf, like when
• 1:04:21
  Beowulf has to swim through the waters in the sea, monsters to
• 1:04:26
  to get to the sea hag, so to speak.
• 1:04:28
  They're saying he's swimming through, in a sense, demons.
• 1:04:32
  Yeah. That's how Christians saw the
• 1:04:34
  world. You know, the Germanic peoples
• 1:04:37
  are looking at spirits of the land and Christians are looking
• 1:04:42
  at demons of the land. Yeah, it's, it's like they
• 1:04:46
  they're, they're demonizing anything that isn't this the,
• 1:04:50
  the singular almighty, all powerful, omnipotent, omniscient
• 1:04:55
  figure of their belief. I grew up in that kind of a
• 1:05:00
  mindset, you know, if it wasn't, if it wasn't the God of Abraham,
• 1:05:06
  Isaac and Jacob, you know, like it was, it was anti that.
• 1:05:12
  So I get it. You know, I grew up in that sort
• 1:05:14
  of of mentality. That's why witch hunts happened
• 1:05:18
  and witches were put to death. You know, people say no, the
• 1:05:22
  church was really kind towards heathens.
• 1:05:24
  They just wanted them in and if they can be half heathen, half
• 1:05:26
  Christian, that was better than nothing.
• 1:05:28
  That was not the mindset. These people feared witches in
• 1:05:31
  their midst. That's why things like the
• 1:05:33
  Inquisition happened and many witch trials went on not just
• 1:05:37
  for decades but a few centuries. They really feared non Christian
• 1:05:43
  things because to them that was Satan prying his way in to tear
• 1:05:48
  these people away from God. And if a plague came, like the
• 1:05:51
  Black Death, the church is sinful.
• 1:05:54
  There must be too much sin. So where are the heathens?
• 1:05:57
  Where are the closet people? We got to find him and kill him
• 1:06:00
  so that this, this plague goes away.
• 1:06:02
  I mean, this was the fear of people.
• 1:06:04
  Yeah. You know, people, I think I'm
• 1:06:08
  blessed and cursed at the same time because on the one hand, I
• 1:06:13
  went to Graduate School and studied biblical archaeology in
• 1:06:17
  the Bible. On the other hand, I think it's
• 1:06:19
  helped me as he then because historically I can get into the
• 1:06:22
  mindset of Christians better and understand what their scriptures
• 1:06:28
  say and how it affected them. You know, look, I'm not saying
• 1:06:34
  my readers or our listeners should read the Bible.
• 1:06:40
  I would say don't, as a matter of fact.
• 1:06:43
  But having this background, it does help me understand who's
• 1:06:48
  doing what in the church and knowing what doctrinal disputes
• 1:06:51
  are going on and when and when the papacy is forcibly moved
• 1:06:54
  into France, what's going on. And then to compare that with
• 1:06:57
  the history, I mean, to me, it really helps solidify.
• 1:07:04
  Plus, you know, you learn research, research in in a
• 1:07:08
  graduate degree. Oh yeah, Biblical research, of
• 1:07:12
  course, you know, there's so many biblical manuscripts that
• 1:07:15
  survived in a dry climate. But again, I pointed out the
• 1:07:18
  Eddas and the sagas and all the writings that the Christians and
• 1:07:21
  the Islamic people made forbidding heathen practices.
• 1:07:26
  There's so much information there.
• 1:07:28
  If you learn to research and you learn to compare and contrast
• 1:07:32
  because sometimes we have conflicting sources.
• 1:07:36
  But to to have that academic approach, because I'm sincerely
• 1:07:40
  looking, I want to know what Heathenry was.
• 1:07:42
  I live in the 21st century. I understand we can't go back
• 1:07:46
  1300 years to 772 and understand exactly what the urban Sewell
• 1:07:51
  was. But I really want to start where
• 1:07:53
  Heathenry left off because then I have a chance to understand
• 1:07:57
  the heathen world view. We're not here to bash
• 1:08:01
  Christianity, but we have to understand that even the the
• 1:08:05
  gospels that survive like the old Saxon Helion, it's a
• 1:08:09
  Christian document meant to convert the Saxons.
• 1:08:13
  There's some heathen re in it, but it's to reach and to
• 1:08:17
  convince the Saxons that the runes are really pointing to
• 1:08:21
  Jesus and stuff. Like that?
• 1:08:24
  Well, yeah, it's, it's, it's the Gospels, but with a with a, with
• 1:08:27
  a Germanic aesthetic or whatever kind of laid over it.
• 1:08:31
  I mean, Jesus is the throat and, and the, the, the apostles are
• 1:08:34
  his are his retainers and, and and all this like a very
• 1:08:38
  Germanic war band ideology kind of again, layered over the the
• 1:08:47
  the the gospels, you know what I mean?
• 1:08:49
  So yeah, there's there's there's definitely that.
• 1:08:52
  So I, I get it, like, is it a source?
• 1:08:54
  It's a source. I guess you could say it is a
• 1:08:56
  source, but it look at the intent behind it with the
• 1:08:59
  purpose of what it was in, you know, the intention why it was,
• 1:09:03
  was, was done that way. Well, come on over this way, you
• 1:09:06
  know, we're not going to kill you all.
• 1:09:08
  Maybe we can save a few, maybe we can redeem a few.
• 1:09:11
  Maybe we can convince you guys to to change your minds or
• 1:09:15
  something, right? Exactly.
• 1:09:19
  And you can study because I studied the Helion and I've
• 1:09:23
  received a lot of Flack for it. I do think because I know what
• 1:09:26
  the Biblical Gospels say, because I've studied Greek,
• 1:09:29
  Hebrew and Latin, changes to the gospel in the Hellion could be
• 1:09:37
  an insight into what the Heathenry was.
• 1:09:43
  There's not a lot there because really the Helion doesn't want
• 1:09:46
  to talk about bloat in detail. What it's readers already know
• 1:09:49
  what it is. It's really there to explain
• 1:09:53
  what a Christian mass is. Yeah.
• 1:09:58
  You know, in the Helion, I think it's fit 2 and might be Fit 3.
• 1:10:01
  When John the Baptist is walking in a circle with fire, is he
• 1:10:06
  doing something heathen, like in land Nom a book where he's
• 1:10:10
  claiming land or he's creating sacred face space?
• 1:10:14
  Or is he burning incense? Because that's what they do in a
• 1:10:17
  Catholic Mass. They walk.
• 1:10:18
  The priest walks around the altar with incense.
• 1:10:20
  I mean, sometimes we're guessing.
• 1:10:22
  Sometimes I think, yeah, it's heathen.
• 1:10:24
  But gosh, the church does it too.
• 1:10:27
  Right. And that's what I think some
• 1:10:28
  people are trying to say is that, well, you know, the, the,
• 1:10:31
  the practice of the priest carrying the sensor with
• 1:10:36
  incense, right? That that is a, that is a
• 1:10:38
  practice that is a, that is a movement that is a behavior of,
• 1:10:42
  of, of making the space sacred. And that's Pagan, right?
• 1:10:47
  Or that's heathen. They're, they're, they're,
• 1:10:49
  they're trying to just deduce the fact that, well, we were,
• 1:10:51
  you know, the heathens, whatever they, they, they were doing all
• 1:10:54
  this stuff. But were they again, we know
• 1:10:57
  through the LA Namaboke that, that, that the way to claim land
• 1:11:02
  and, and you gotta think, right, the La number book is, is an
• 1:11:04
  Icelandic book of law, right? And the Icelanders were
• 1:11:07
  Norwegian immigrants. So this is a very newer slash
• 1:11:11
  modern document or, or book. Yes, it's old, but it in in
• 1:11:16
  comparison to some of the other things, it, it is a bit newer,
• 1:11:20
  but this was their way of doing it.
• 1:11:21
  It was their way to claim land. It was to carry fire.
• 1:11:26
  Fire was a way to claim land. Fire was a way to claim sacred
• 1:11:29
  space. This is proven in various
• 1:11:31
  sources. But is is incense ever
• 1:11:34
  mentioned? Is is is burning of incense ever
• 1:11:36
  mentioned? I don't know.
• 1:11:36
  I don't think so. In the 5th century, the Catholic
• 1:11:41
  Church was already using incense to walk around the altar.
• 1:11:44
  That's the thing, right? So.
• 1:11:45
  Right. So again like you, you say, well
• 1:11:48
  did they take it from somewhere else?
• 1:11:50
  I don't know. And it gets into the.
• 1:11:51
  Incense comes from. Right, resin, right, all of
• 1:11:55
  these things that get burned for the for the, for the aromatics,
• 1:11:58
  for the, for the, for the first of all, for the health benefits
• 1:12:01
  like there's there are pure resin, pure frankincense resin,
• 1:12:05
  pure mirror myrrh resin, right breathing in the the smoke of
• 1:12:09
  these resins is is medicinally beneficial as well.
• 1:12:13
  Like there are things that do well for the body and the mind
• 1:12:17
  when breathing in these certain things.
• 1:12:18
  So, you know, these were things that.
• 1:12:20
  That that were known. For a long time.
• 1:12:22
  And, and to say that it was, you know, claimed or appropriated by
• 1:12:26
  the church from other things, I mean, it, I, I feel like it's a
• 1:12:29
  bit of a stretch because again, they were doing these things
• 1:12:32
  already. They, they already had this sort
• 1:12:34
  of idea of, of it. So whether it was, you know,
• 1:12:39
  syncretism playing out or, or or or what I, I, I can't really say
• 1:12:43
  for sure. If you're high Catholic, there
• 1:12:47
  is a mass every day for a St. because every single day is for
• 1:12:53
  multiple Saints. There's a list of each day and
• 1:12:55
  what Saints they are. So I bring this up because I
• 1:12:59
  think you'll we will both see in the comments.
• 1:13:02
  Hey, what about Saints days in these minor celebrations?
• 1:13:06
  I mean, that's how St. days were born, right?
• 1:13:09
  I mean they were stolen because it's a formerly lost holiday to
• 1:13:12
  us on some fixed solar date. By the way, typically when the
• 1:13:16
  Germanic heathens were Luna solar.
• 1:13:19
  So the calendar is completely different one.
• 1:13:21
  So the timing, is the timing even the same?
• 1:13:23
  The answer is no, but because every day is a Saints day and
• 1:13:27
  they had been doing Saints days for a long time.
• 1:13:30
  As I burn incense, by the way, go ahead.
• 1:13:35
  But my point is, is if you're high Catholic and you go to Mass
• 1:13:39
  daily, which not a lot of Catholics do that anymore, you
• 1:13:45
  can't go to Mass daily. But in the end, the major
• 1:13:48
  heathen holidays are your Christmas.
• 1:13:51
  Whether it's December 25th or January 6th, you've got your
• 1:13:55
  Good Friday. Whether it's the Greek Orthodox
• 1:13:58
  dating or the Roman Catholic, you've got your Resurrection
• 1:14:01
  Sunday, which isn't called Easter through most of
• 1:14:05
  Christendom by the way, there's various names for most of the
• 1:14:08
  time related to pasca or lamas after the lamb.
• 1:14:13
  Those those are the holidays. Sure, you have a St.
• 1:14:16
  John's Mass too on the Julian calendar summer solstice because
• 1:14:22
  the gospels are clear that it's about 6 months apart that John
• 1:14:26
  the Baptist in Christ. They were born about six months
• 1:14:30
  apart, based on the timing of when the Angel appeared to both
• 1:14:33
  Miriam or Mary the mother of Yeshua or Jesus, and Elisheva or
• 1:14:40
  Elizabeth the mother of Jochenan the Tovail John the Baptist.
• 1:14:47
  Right, right, right. But those are those are really
• 1:14:51
  the main holidays in Christendom.
• 1:14:53
  I mean, that is the bulk of Christianity because every day
• 1:14:57
  there's a Mass and you have your special masses around John the
• 1:15:02
  Baptist in Jesus. Those are your holiday times.
• 1:15:06
  So you want to hear something interesting.
• 1:15:09
  You talk about three major bloats that the Germanic peoples
• 1:15:13
  that we know of that they had that they're three major holy
• 1:15:16
  ties, right? You had, you know, your, your,
• 1:15:19
  your winter nights Veter Neter, you had your Yule midwinter and
• 1:15:23
  you had your summer cigar bloat, victory bloat, right?
• 1:15:26
  Documented the Christianity that I grew up in.
• 1:15:29
  And this is, this is, this is unlike anything that I've ever
• 1:15:32
  come across, even in the various sects or or denominations of
• 1:15:38
  Christianity, right? The Christianity that I grew up
• 1:15:41
  in, we had three feast days is what they were called.
• 1:15:48
  We did a Passover in the usually in April.
• 1:15:52
  It was around, it was, it was in the springtime.
• 1:15:55
  It was a fixed solar calendar day.
• 1:15:57
  It was the same day every year. We had a Passover feast.
• 1:16:01
  We had a Feast of weeks which was 50 I think 50 days after
• 1:16:08
  Passover and then we had a Feast of Harvest which usually landed
• 1:16:13
  sometime in October. It was again it was a fixed
• 1:16:15
  calendar date. So we had a fixed calendar date
• 1:16:18
  in in in April, a fixed calendar date in June, and a fixed
• 1:16:21
  calendar date in October which reflected the the the Judaic
• 1:16:29
  Feast of Passover, Feast of Weeks and Feast of Harvest or
• 1:16:32
  Feast of Tabernacles. Interesting that I'm in this
• 1:16:37
  model of heathenry now where I have 3 fixed holy tides that are
• 1:16:42
  not solar based. They are Luna solar.
• 1:16:44
  So we, we, we, we reckon them on the, the cycle of the moon and
• 1:16:49
  when we keep track of that to, to keep them.
• 1:16:52
  But yeah, that's, I'd never talked about that before.
• 1:16:56
  And I've just gotten to think about where I grew up and how I
• 1:17:00
  grew up in the way that I grew up.
• 1:17:02
  And it was, you know, our church service was not, you know, we
• 1:17:05
  didn't do communion. We didn't have a Mass on
• 1:17:07
  Sundays. We had a church service.
• 1:17:09
  There was, you know, the way that they did things.
• 1:17:11
  But when it came to receiving the body and blood of Christ or
• 1:17:16
  whatever like that, that custom that, that, that mass, if you
• 1:17:20
  want to call it as such, was fixed to fall on the three
• 1:17:24
  specific times of year that we held our feast days or, or, or
• 1:17:29
  whatever. So not heathen, definitely not
• 1:17:33
  even. But if you like, look at the the
• 1:17:37
  the three and the three comparisons, like 3 holy days,
• 1:17:40
  three holy tides, 3 feast days, whatever.
• 1:17:42
  Like that was a thing. That was a thing that I grew up
• 1:17:45
  in. Ironically, and there's mass
• 1:17:47
  arch service every Sunday, but you know, I probably should
• 1:17:50
  mention, why is Pentecost? Penta is your Greek word for
• 1:17:54
  five. Why is Pentecost, which is
• 1:17:57
  Shavuot, feast of weeks? You actually translated the
• 1:18:00
  Hebrew right? Why is that in the church and
• 1:18:06
  the other biblical holy days or not?
• 1:18:08
  The answer is very simple. In the book of Acts, which is
• 1:18:11
  your 5th book of the New Testament, it's when the tongues
• 1:18:14
  from heaven come down on the Gentiles and they start speaking
• 1:18:17
  in tongues. The Church believes that's when
• 1:18:20
  the Gospel left Judah, the Jews and came to the Christians.
• 1:18:27
  Yeah. And your Greek word ecclesia for
• 1:18:30
  church comes from the Greek word eclectos, which means chosen.
• 1:18:34
  The church is saying, see, we Gentiles are now the chosen
• 1:18:38
  people and you rejected God, so he has rejected you.
• 1:18:42
  That is why the Church celebrates Pentecost.
• 1:18:47
  Of course they give it the Greek name.
• 1:18:49
  Yeah. But that technically is a
• 1:18:51
  biblical feast also in Leviticus chapter 23 and other places.
• 1:18:56
  But that technically is a Jewish feast with the Church uses it in
• 1:18:59
  such a way to say we're right, you Jews are wrong.
• 1:19:03
  That's what it's about. Yeah.
• 1:19:04
  They, they, I remember growing up being like, OK, so we're
• 1:19:07
  doing Passover. Not, not not to not to celebrate
• 1:19:12
  the. Exodus.
• 1:19:15
  The Exodus, but to celebrate the birth or I'm sorry, to, to
• 1:19:20
  celebrate the, the, the death of Christ and then the Pentecost
• 1:19:24
  feast or the feast of weeks was to celebrate the, the, the
• 1:19:29
  receiving of the Holy Ghost or the Holy Spirit on, on the, on
• 1:19:32
  the disciples, right in the book of Acts, as you were talking
• 1:19:35
  about. And then the feast of
• 1:19:36
  Tabernacles was, was to celebrate Christ's birth.
• 1:19:41
  That was that was how they they measured or or or I.
• 1:19:45
  Don't know. Well, that's very interesting
• 1:19:46
  'cause they then, because Emmanuel, which means God is
• 1:19:51
  with us in Hebrew, they would then believe that Christ was
• 1:19:56
  born on a biblical feast and they're guessing it's
• 1:19:59
  tabernacles. The Tabernacle is a tent or a
• 1:20:01
  dwelling and therefore a Manu whale is a way to say see God is
• 1:20:06
  the Christian God is dwelling with us.
• 1:20:08
  Now that's some guesswork on their end, but you?
• 1:20:14
  Know that was fucking 40 years ago, almost now.
• 1:20:18
  Wow, that's good that you remember that.
• 1:20:20
  And it's good that you can tie it because a lot of people are
• 1:20:23
  like, oh man, you know, there, there would have to be holidays
• 1:20:26
  all the time in ancient Heathenry.
• 1:20:28
  And I would say, well, you have new moons and full moons and you
• 1:20:31
  can go out and bloat whenever you want.
• 1:20:33
  I mean, you're used to going to church once a week.
• 1:20:36
  I mean, maybe the heathens didn't want to to be doing some
• 1:20:40
  religious feast one out of every seven days.
• 1:20:43
  Maybe they just wanted to to have your major holy days and to
• 1:20:47
  have freedom to go venerate the gods whenever you want.
• 1:20:51
  Right. And that's what I feel too.
• 1:20:53
  I mean, it's it, it, it 'cause you got to think like again,
• 1:20:58
  how, how were, how was the land venerated?
• 1:21:01
  How were the spirits of the land venerated?
• 1:21:03
  How were the gods venerated? Again, it was outdoors.
• 1:21:05
  It was in nature. You had your sacred Groves.
• 1:21:07
  The Hoths became a thing later on, but they had sacred Groves.
• 1:21:11
  They had out you were outdoors. Did did individual clans, did
• 1:21:18
  individual families have their own cultic practices?
• 1:21:21
  I would almost without a doubt say yes.
• 1:21:25
  I, I, I would have to believe that families and and clans had
• 1:21:28
  their own cultic practices that were unique to them that that we
• 1:21:34
  don't have documented that we can't assuredly say that yes,
• 1:21:38
  but it's how we do it things now, right?
• 1:21:41
  You have your cultic practice. I have mine, every heathen does
• 1:21:44
  and even the heathen kindreds or tribes or clans that that have
• 1:21:47
  formulated in modern times, you know, have their ways of doing
• 1:21:50
  things. Why?
• 1:21:51
  Because it's it's what works for them.
• 1:21:54
  We also think of offices. So what you're saying is totally
• 1:21:59
  right and it's very Germanic and thought, but the Christian
• 1:22:02
  thought is, is Christ has to intercede for me or a priest?
• 1:22:07
  Does it intercede for me between me and Christ?
• 1:22:10
  Heathens could just directly approach the gods without an
• 1:22:14
  intermediary. Our ideas today of what
• 1:22:18
  ministers are. It's somehow is brought into
• 1:22:21
  heathenry with a quasi Christian mindset.
• 1:22:24
  Like a priest has to be XY or Z and most of that is more
• 1:22:29
  Christian. I mean, any leader in the family
• 1:22:33
  can when it's a family bloat typically like grandpa or the,
• 1:22:38
  you know, maybe the oldest men or the oldest women will lead
• 1:22:41
  the entire family, but anyone could do it.
• 1:22:44
  It's not necessarily a prescribed office where
• 1:22:47
  someone's making their living. Sure, we have evidence of vulvas
• 1:22:52
  making their living going from town to town.
• 1:22:54
  I mean, you see it in the saga of Eric the Red Chapter 4, but
• 1:22:59
  for priests, we don't see record of traveling priests or you need
• 1:23:04
  to do AB or C to be a priest. It's like anyone could be.
• 1:23:09
  Maybe everyone can't be a yeah a seer, so to speak.
• 1:23:14
  Yeah, so that's the thing too is like, like, I don't know what
• 1:23:17
  the, the equivalent or if there is an equivalent in, in Saxon
• 1:23:21
  terms or in continental dramatic terms.
• 1:23:23
  But in Scandinavian heathenry there's the, the gothy or the OR
• 1:23:28
  the Geethia if you're, if you're a female, right.
• 1:23:31
  Like this, this sort of priest class.
• 1:23:33
  And they were, they were I think later, like I think they were a,
• 1:23:36
  a, a quasi role of, of a Chieftain slash priest position
• 1:23:42
  of the community. They, they kind of, they led the
• 1:23:44
  community in their role as this spiritual advisor, but also the
• 1:23:51
  the head honcho or whatever in charge.
• 1:23:54
  So I don't know if if that existed in continental dramatic
• 1:24:00
  times. I don't, I don't know.
• 1:24:02
  There are some words, I mean, I'm sure they did exist, but in
• 1:24:05
  the old Saxon corpus that survived, we don't have the word
• 1:24:08
  go the and Gidea. That doesn't mean that the terms
• 1:24:12
  didn't exist. Yeah, you know, the terms that
• 1:24:16
  are used. I mean the word it's spelled
• 1:24:21
  BISCOP, but it would be pronounced Bishop.
• 1:24:27
  There are clearly words that it's very clear that these are
• 1:24:30
  bow rings from the church, the term huratogo.
• 1:24:37
  Scholars of Old Saxon argue that that's a Frankish military term
• 1:24:42
  adopted by the Helion our word Herzog in modern German.
• 1:24:49
  But there's not like in what survived you have the a war Seo,
• 1:24:55
  but that's really a truth Sayer like a seer.
• 1:24:59
  You know, the the term priest is more understood through a
• 1:25:04
  Christian lens. You know John the Baptist father
• 1:25:08
  who's Zechariah by the way, in the Halion, the term used for
• 1:25:13
  him. I for some I have a brain fart
• 1:25:15
  in the old Saxon term, but the problem is it's clearly related
• 1:25:18
  to a Latin priest. Yeah, which again serves as the,
• 1:25:25
  the intermediary, the, the, the, the, the person to the, the,
• 1:25:29
  the, the connection of the people to the deity or to the
• 1:25:33
  God or to God or whatever, right.
• 1:25:35
  Like you have to go through the priest to get to the God or, or
• 1:25:39
  or whatever. And as, as what we were saying
• 1:25:42
  is that what we tend to see is that the, the cause even Tacitus
• 1:25:47
  says that right? The, the, the, the dramatic
• 1:25:49
  tribes in, in their adherence or their observations of divination
• 1:25:55
  mentions a priest in communal readings of, of, of, of, of the,
• 1:26:01
  the pieces of wood that were cut from nut or fruit bearing trees,
• 1:26:04
  right. If it was a communal thing, the
• 1:26:06
  priest would do it. So even Tacitus documents or
• 1:26:09
  records that there was that sort of role in the Germanic tribes,
• 1:26:13
  I believe, right 'cause he says that there was a in in, in the
• 1:26:16
  communal sense, the priest would do it in the if it was a family,
• 1:26:19
  usually the head of the house, the father, the.
• 1:26:21
  Whatever. Yeah, I was gonna say the priest
• 1:26:23
  or the head of the family. Is that passage in Tacitus?
• 1:26:27
  Yeah. So Tacitus.
• 1:26:28
  Even says and, and, and it's which is interesting with
• 1:26:31
  Tacitus is, you know, he's not, he's not saying what he's saying
• 1:26:34
  through the lens of a Christian. He's a Roman Pagan equivalent
• 1:26:40
  or, or, or, or making comparisons to the way the the
• 1:26:43
  Germanic tribes see things or saw things through the way he
• 1:26:47
  saw things as a Roman Pagan himself.
• 1:26:49
  So what he recognized as the the priest maybe is, is coming from
• 1:26:55
  the Roman Pagan. Maybe they that's what they had
• 1:26:57
  in their structure of things. And, you know, was there a
• 1:27:00
  designated person with the dramatic tribes or was it just
• 1:27:04
  the father, the grandfather, the the head of the the clan, the
• 1:27:07
  household, whatever that could possibly be debated.
• 1:27:10
  Maybe. I don't.
• 1:27:11
  Know, yeah, I think it's clear that there I think that there's
• 1:27:14
  some of both because at least in Saxon society and honestly I
• 1:27:18
  think that it's not just in Saxon society because think of
• 1:27:21
  Heimdall. Heimdall's the same way.
• 1:27:23
  He's, you see, with the lore of Heimdall, there's three classes
• 1:27:28
  even in Scandinavia, but in Saxony, while they all have an
• 1:27:33
  equal vote at Marclo and the three classes have equal say in
• 1:27:37
  government, the the Drockton and Theoden, the Theoden's the one
• 1:27:44
  who's going to lead the army in times of war, the head leader,
• 1:27:48
  he can only be it for that summer and then he's turning it
• 1:27:51
  over. Those are all nobles.
• 1:27:54
  So there certainly is a I can't imagine at Marclo of the Saxons,
• 1:28:03
  the Saxon all thing that it's not a noble being the head
• 1:28:08
  officiant at Marclo. Even though all three classes
• 1:28:11
  have the same equal voice in terms of the vote, I still see
• 1:28:16
  the nobility as so. The nobles do have a military
• 1:28:23
  leader, probably acting as the spiritual leader.
• 1:28:27
  Yeah. And that also opens up a thing
• 1:28:29
  that I was thinking about too, with how we know that that
• 1:28:35
  that's certain of the the prominent or dominant or, or or
• 1:28:39
  more widely documented gods that existed amongst the Germanic
• 1:28:43
  peoples. We know that Woden Odin was a
• 1:28:48
  God of the nobility. He was a God of the aristocracy.
• 1:28:51
  He was a God of royalty. He was not a God typically
• 1:28:54
  revenerated or recognized by the common folk.
• 1:28:58
  That was Thor, the donor Dunor, you know, he so so.
• 1:29:05
  But when, when, when you think of like the complexities of
• 1:29:07
  Woden and, and everything that kind of encompasses his
• 1:29:11
  character, there is this air of magic, the, the, the, the, the
• 1:29:19
  ecstasy, the, the, the, the, the shaman, the, the Mystic, the,
• 1:29:23
  the magic elements of things. So it's interesting to think
• 1:29:27
  about in terms of who was over those spiritual matters.
• 1:29:32
  Were they more given to the the the nobility class that the
• 1:29:39
  upper class types of people? Yeah, I mean, there's certainly
• 1:29:44
  fear in the historical sources, even bead.
• 1:29:47
  I'm not just talking about the Franco sources about the sex.
• 1:29:50
  I'm talking about bead writing about the old Saxons.
• 1:29:54
  He talks about monks sent sent in the Saxony and he talks about
• 1:29:59
  the other two lower classes, which is the vast majority of
• 1:30:02
  the Saxons fearing these monks going to the the Droctons and
• 1:30:09
  saying, hey, follow this way. It's almost like 'cause on the
• 1:30:17
  one hand, I, I was kind of smiling as I was listening to
• 1:30:20
  you because I noticed that what you said is absolutely true.
• 1:30:24
  You don't go to Odin for necessarily.
• 1:30:29
  I was thinking backwards. You don't go to Thor for wisdom.
• 1:30:31
  You go to Odin. But Odin isn't no or excuse me
• 1:30:36
  now I'm backwards again. Thor isn't known as the thinking
• 1:30:38
  God. He just reacts.
• 1:30:40
  You know, he's short tempered. The the lower classes of the
• 1:30:45
  Saxons are portrayed very much like Thor accidentally by the
• 1:30:51
  Christian writers. They're like, what is wrong with
• 1:30:53
  all the commoners? Why do they cling?
• 1:30:57
  Whereas the nobles are willing? Probably because they're bribed
• 1:31:00
  and they say see wealth and because they're now no longer
• 1:31:05
  going to have equal vote with the lower classes, they can they
• 1:31:08
  can now rule the roost. It's actually the lower classes
• 1:31:12
  who were more wise who saw the dangers of Christianity and
• 1:31:15
  fought against it. And it's the nobles who who are
• 1:31:18
  supposed to be all wise. And there's they forgot Odin's
• 1:31:22
  wisdom, and they followed the lack of wisdom because sorry, I
• 1:31:28
  don't see Christ as wise, you know well.
• 1:31:32
  What's interesting with the the the Odin complex or you know, is
• 1:31:38
  he even in the lore, right? Even in the myths, he is his,
• 1:31:42
  his, you know, what he does is, is arguably a, it's, it's what's
• 1:31:51
  good for him, right? He's, he's a selfishly driven
• 1:31:55
  decision maker, smart, tactical, witty, you know, you know,
• 1:32:02
  whatever word you want to put to just the wit, the, the, the
• 1:32:05
  cunning sort of diabolical nature.
• 1:32:08
  But it's it's, it's with his own benefit in mind in, in, in
• 1:32:13
  pretty much all of the, of the scenarios.
• 1:32:17
  And so that almost aligns with the idea of the noble class.
• 1:32:23
  You know, what can I do to further my Kingdom?
• 1:32:25
  What can I do to further my pocketbook, to expand my land,
• 1:32:29
  my coverage, my control, my, this, my that, right?
• 1:32:32
  Money talks, wealth talks. And, and it's the thing that I
• 1:32:37
  feel was a, was a big, I don't know, component to where
• 1:32:43
  heathenry kind of died, man. Like when, when, when we talk
• 1:32:47
  about conquest and stuff like, Hey, if I give you this much
• 1:32:50
  land, if I give you this much title, if I give you this much
• 1:32:52
  status, all you got to do is denounce your beliefs and, and,
• 1:32:57
  and get everybody else under your retinue to, to, to follow
• 1:33:01
  suit. And you get all of this thing
• 1:33:03
  out of the other. That's why I wish I could.
• 1:33:06
  I mean, I've written blogs on Vidukind the Saxon heathen hero.
• 1:33:11
  To me he was so amazing. He doesn't even get enough
• 1:33:14
  credit because he's he's really the only noble that decides he's
• 1:33:21
  not going to go along with all the other nobles and bowing down
• 1:33:23
  to Charlemagne, another noble, a bee, follows him.
• 1:33:27
  But the the sources made clear that a bee is more Wittican's
• 1:33:30
  companion, so he might not even be the same high class of
• 1:33:35
  Throckton that Widukind is. But Widukind lost everything.
• 1:33:42
  He was willing to give up his lands to possibly risk being a
• 1:33:46
  noble. You know, Charlemagne's
• 1:33:48
  convincing all the other nobles, you can have more power, you can
• 1:33:52
  have more wealth, just join me. And he's like, man, I'm going to
• 1:33:56
  go with the masses. I'm going to risk losing
• 1:33:59
  everything because I don't sense this is right for the people.
• 1:34:05
  You know, as we come up with election and I don't want to
• 1:34:07
  talk politics, but is there a Wittican type figure in our
• 1:34:12
  world today that is running for an office to truly 100% put
• 1:34:19
  their needs aside and to serve the people?
• 1:34:23
  That's why Wittican was so amazing.
• 1:34:26
  He ended up losing everything. There's even a Saints Day named
• 1:34:30
  after Wittican. That's January 6th.
• 1:34:33
  Really. You can you can have a mass to
• 1:34:35
  Wittican, especially in Hereford, Germany and anger
• 1:34:38
  Germany. Go to a Catholic Church there.
• 1:34:40
  You can have a mass to Wittican. You know, Yeah, it's but it's
• 1:34:47
  disturbing. It is, you know, talking to
• 1:34:50
  heroes. I was thinking and I, and I just
• 1:34:54
  recalled this. I don't know how maybe you can
• 1:34:58
  help, but from what I'm seeing today is September 9th, as as
• 1:35:02
  we're talking about this now, people that are listening to
• 1:35:04
  this, when they hear it will be September 11th or sorry, 12th.
• 1:35:09
  But from what I'm hearing is that today, September 9th, is a
• 1:35:14
  sort of day of remembrance for Herman slash Arminius.
• 1:35:20
  Have you heard of that? You know, I have, I never heard
• 1:35:24
  it from my own family. I I.
• 1:35:30
  Don't know why September 9th, but apparently today is a day of
• 1:35:35
  commemoration or remembrance of Armenius, who again was a a
• 1:35:41
  pretty prominent figure amongst the the Cheruski I believe.
• 1:35:45
  Yes, in 2009 it was a 2000 year anniversary of Arminius
• 1:35:53
  defeating the three legions and Germany totally downplayed it
• 1:35:58
  because sorry to say an S bomb, but I call him Schittler because
• 1:36:05
  there. You go the. 3rd Reich was so
• 1:36:08
  militant that Germany wanted to downplay its past.
• 1:36:11
  I mean, the problem is, is Arminius, a Latin name came into
• 1:36:16
  German from the word Harry HERI, which means war.
• 1:36:21
  So Herrmann is a war man, a war man, a man of the army.
• 1:36:26
  And that's not how Germany after the Second World War wants to
• 1:36:30
  present itself. So even if you go to the
• 1:36:34
  Wittican museum, because there is a, well, I didn't say
• 1:36:41
  Wittican museum, but you can see it there.
• 1:36:42
  But I I think I was referring more to the Varus Schlacht, the
• 1:36:48
  museum at Kalkreza. On a one whole floor of that
• 1:36:53
  museum is discussion everywhere, the entire floor about Herman
• 1:37:00
  Arminius and how the Third Reich in a sense ruined him.
• 1:37:08
  And it's warnings against 'cause that sword is facing France and
• 1:37:14
  not Rome. Oh wow.
• 1:37:17
  'Cause that's the direction. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:37:19
  So, you know, everything in Germany today is to downplay its
• 1:37:25
  militaristic past. I know I've heard it somewhere,
• 1:37:28
  but I've never really. In short, I probably need to
• 1:37:32
  study it. So I I off the top of my head, I
• 1:37:35
  don't know where that comes from.
• 1:37:37
  Yeah. And I think that it was, it's,
• 1:37:38
  it's referring to the Battle of the Totenberg Forest in the
• 1:37:42
  September of nine AD. So maybe that's why September
• 1:37:48
  9th is is keyed in on maybe not the specific solar calendar
• 1:37:55
  date, but just in the 9th century AD in that Julian month,
• 1:38:00
  that was Julian calendar back then, right thing, right?
• 1:38:03
  Yeah, it was absolutely. Yeah.
• 1:38:05
  Hope Gregory did not change until the October of 1582.
• 1:38:09
  Yeah. So, yeah, yeah.
• 1:38:12
  Right. Yeah, no, it's, it's an
• 1:38:14
  interesting thing and you know, we've, we've really covered a
• 1:38:17
  lot. Yeah, we kind of didn't end with
• 1:38:21
  where we started. No.
• 1:38:22
  Well, that's the nature of the show.
• 1:38:24
  It's the nature of the beast here.
• 1:38:26
  You know you've been here before.
• 1:38:28
  But to summarize, yeah, I mean to say that the church stole
• 1:38:33
  Germanic heathen practices. Maybe it uses the name Yule, but
• 1:38:37
  that doesn't mean that the modern Scandinavian Yule has
• 1:38:42
  anything to do with historical heathen Yule.
• 1:38:44
  And people may say, well, what about the Yule log?
• 1:38:49
  I thought that was a more of a a folk customer folklore custom.
• 1:38:54
  Yeah, custom that that that happened much later on the the
• 1:38:58
  the Yule log thing. Yeah.
• 1:39:00
  I mean, I guess we can get into a long discussion on it.
• 1:39:03
  I mean, it's very difficult in general to prove certain
• 1:39:10
  practices going all the way back.
• 1:39:13
  And I find it a little strange that people are fighting for
• 1:39:17
  stock Christmas stockings or Christmas trees or Easter eggs
• 1:39:22
  or things very that are very much in the church, even
• 1:39:25
  Maypoles, which even Jacob Grimm and his Deutsche mythology says
• 1:39:29
  comes from Italy. You know, some things may come
• 1:39:35
  from Rome, but Rome had, no, the church had no reason to
• 1:39:40
  compromise with pagans. They were the clear victors.
• 1:39:46
  The victors dictate the terms just like they did at Versailles
• 1:39:50
  of Germany, just as the Allies broke Germany up into four
• 1:39:53
  parts, East Germany and West Germany into three parts.
• 1:39:58
  You know, you lose a war to a Christian Church that already
• 1:40:02
  has established itself and knows what its holy days are.
• 1:40:05
  That's why it was issuing death penalties.
• 1:40:07
  I mean, there's many law codes. There's a lex frisonum, there's
• 1:40:12
  the indiculous superstition. So hopefully I can pronounce it
• 1:40:17
  right. Let me make sure.
• 1:40:19
  The indiculous superstitionum at Paganarium.
• 1:40:22
  I totally mispronounced that. I've studied Latin but I don't
• 1:40:26
  remember a lot of the pronunciation.
• 1:40:29
  I mean, you have many law codes that are forbidding behavior and
• 1:40:34
  they fear heathenry. They do not want the devil or
• 1:40:38
  the devil's ways in the church. And they they gladly kill
• 1:40:45
  witches and gypsies to keep plagues from coming into the
• 1:40:50
  church. That level of fear, you know,
• 1:40:55
  mob justice. I'm not saying heathens were
• 1:40:57
  perfect people, but at least the concept of thing and having
• 1:41:02
  people at thing present a case before justice is carried out is
• 1:41:07
  very wise. Yeah, it's very democratic, I
• 1:41:10
  mean, or diplomatic, I should say.
• 1:41:12
  I mean like there's, there's very, it's structural, it's
• 1:41:16
  order driven. But yeah.
• 1:41:21
  And then people just, they, they don't want to hear that
• 1:41:24
  Christmas is a different date. I mean, look to me, I do gift
• 1:41:28
  giving with my very Christian family.
• 1:41:31
  I maybe they're not very Christian anymore.
• 1:41:34
  They're very secular now. They used to be Christian and
• 1:41:37
  they've kind of lost their religion as the world
• 1:41:40
  secularizes. But because I meet my family at
• 1:41:44
  for Christmas dinner doesn't mean that that's heathen to me.
• 1:41:48
  Right. Yeah, No, I think we were
• 1:41:51
  talking about that offline, you know, I mean, I still have a a,
• 1:41:54
  a family Christmas tradition with, with my non heathen
• 1:42:00
  extended family. I mean, everybody who I'm, you
• 1:42:03
  know, tied to kinship wise is through marriage now.
• 1:42:07
  All of my all of my like my mother, my father, they're both
• 1:42:10
  dead. My sister, she lives in New
• 1:42:12
  York. We never celebrated Christmas.
• 1:42:14
  That wasn't a thing. But everybody now and my wife's
• 1:42:17
  side of the family does. And so we'll have, you know, a,
• 1:42:21
  a, a Christmas dinner and, you know, there's gift giving and,
• 1:42:24
  but that's its own thing. Then we do our heathen Yule
• 1:42:29
  celebration with our heathen people.
• 1:42:32
  We're the, the ones that are our, our kith and our kin in, in
• 1:42:37
  the heathen sense, right. So it, it is, it's a separate
• 1:42:40
  thing. And we don't, we don't try to
• 1:42:43
  say that, that we're, we're, we're combining them.
• 1:42:46
  We're, we're, we're, we're keeping our tradition with our,
• 1:42:48
  with our family that that does that thing.
• 1:42:50
  And, and that's OK. And I think everybody else that
• 1:42:53
  listens and watches this probably has similar things
• 1:42:56
  going on. And, and that's fine too, you
• 1:42:59
  know, do your thing with, with your people.
• 1:43:03
  It's, it's, it's fine to know what's what.
• 1:43:05
  And and it's good to to know the difference and like, you know
• 1:43:09
  what, what Scandinavia calls Christmas, if they call it Yule,
• 1:43:12
  well then that's what they call it.
• 1:43:14
  That's doesn't mean that it is pre Christian heathen Yule.
• 1:43:18
  And people forget too how Christian Europe truly was.
• 1:43:22
  I mean like 99% of Americans attended church in the 1800s.
• 1:43:27
  I mean it was, it's radically Christian.
• 1:43:30
  It was born on Christian religious freedom, mainly
• 1:43:33
  Protestantism. Germany was like 92% Christian.
• 1:43:38
  They still have a church tax today that many of my family
• 1:43:41
  have gotten out of. Really.
• 1:43:43
  So yeah. So and that's not separation of
• 1:43:46
  church and state. They have at least the state
• 1:43:49
  allows him to get out of the tax now.
• 1:43:51
  But in unless you're paying the church tax, you can't be buried
• 1:43:54
  in a in a Christian cemetery. You know, you can't get married
• 1:43:59
  in a church. So look, this hasn't completely
• 1:44:02
  gone away. You know, we've separated church
• 1:44:05
  and state in America. They have not fully overseas
• 1:44:09
  yet. And if you go to Wikipedia,
• 1:44:11
  you'll see just type in church tax and look, and then look at
• 1:44:14
  the sources. Ask people in Germany.
• 1:44:17
  Are you aware of the church tax? You still pay it.
• 1:44:19
  Did you and your family voluntarily get out of it?
• 1:44:23
  If you don't keep up a grave site in a Christian cemetery,
• 1:44:26
  they will bring a bulldozer in and dig up that grave because,
• 1:44:31
  look, there's not a lot of open land.
• 1:44:33
  Yeah, that's. Great.
• 1:44:34
  Germany. I mean, there's big competition
• 1:44:36
  for some burial plots. And if you're paying the church
• 1:44:39
  tax, you're going to get a spot if you're not paying the church
• 1:44:42
  tax. I mean, my aunt and uncle who
• 1:44:44
  have left the church in Germany, they found a secular spot to get
• 1:44:47
  buried and they're paying a, they're in their 70s now.
• 1:44:52
  You know, I'm, I'm in my early 50s.
• 1:44:54
  I'm not a spring chicken anymore.
• 1:44:56
  So my aunts and uncles are in their, you know, mid and late
• 1:45:00
  70s now. And they're thinking about their
• 1:45:03
  deaths, which is very sad, but it's the way it is, you know?
• 1:45:10
  Can you still hear me? Yes.
• 1:45:12
  OK, my screen just blocked out. I'm going to do a thing real
• 1:45:15
  quick just to try to figure out what's going on here.
• 1:45:22
  I'm going to check my phone because one of my life events
• 1:45:25
  today is I got a flat and a friend was coming by to fix my,
• 1:45:32
  you know, like I literally pay because I'm a great accountant,
• 1:45:36
  but I pay people. I'm going to text him.
• 1:45:54
  Really. There we go.
• 1:46:00
  I'm back. Had a little glitch that might
• 1:46:03
  be that might be that might be the cue.
• 1:46:06
  Yeah, if I were to give a concluding remark, please, you
• 1:46:12
  know, I really sincerely want to understand what pre Christian
• 1:46:15
  heathenry was. We do live in a modern world and
• 1:46:19
  I used to be more let's keep 100% of anything in the church
• 1:46:25
  out of Heathenry. I, I don't think that way
• 1:46:27
  anymore. I, I, I want honest labeling of
• 1:46:32
  things, but if something works for an individual, who am I to
• 1:46:38
  say don't do it just because it's a Christian folk tradition
• 1:46:42
  or whatever. I think if we study the sources
• 1:46:49
  and we try to figure out what historical pre Christian
• 1:46:51
  Heathenry was, it's a good starting place.
• 1:46:56
  My wife grew up on a farm. She understands the slaughter of
• 1:46:59
  animals. I'm the son of a McDonald's IT
• 1:47:03
  guy and the McDonald's Corporation is a Chicago
• 1:47:06
  corporation. Ray Kroc set it up in Oakbrook
• 1:47:10
  and now moved into the city of Chicago and my dad worked for
• 1:47:13
  that company, is an IT guy. So I have not slaughtered
• 1:47:19
  animals myself. I have gone to a butcher to get
• 1:47:21
  blood. Sometimes it's not an old way to
• 1:47:26
  use alcohol as a substitute. Look, sometimes I do some newer
• 1:47:30
  ways myself, trying to in some way emulate an old way.
• 1:47:36
  I I have no business slaughtering an animal.
• 1:47:38
  I'm going to cause harm to the animal and not kill it properly
• 1:47:42
  nor drain the blood properly for a bloat.
• 1:47:44
  I have no business doing it and I accept that we do have to
• 1:47:50
  change because times change. I'm not saying you know, I said
• 1:47:55
  before I studied, you know, biblical.
• 1:47:59
  Take an ethno religious religion like Judaism.
• 1:48:03
  You know, you have 90% of Jews today are secular, but yet they
• 1:48:07
  still keep Passover when the Jews have historically kept it.
• 1:48:11
  They may not literally go to a Tabernacle or a temple and
• 1:48:15
  sacrifice a lamb anymore, but they still do a seder.
• 1:48:21
  I think had heathenry survived until today and Christianity
• 1:48:24
  didn't wipe it out, the timing of the holidays holidays
• 1:48:28
  wouldn't change. Judaism has its spiritual
• 1:48:32
  calendar and it follows a secular calendar of the world.
• 1:48:35
  That's what I do. And I know it's a heathen
• 1:48:39
  calendar. I, I followed the three bloat
• 1:48:41
  times. But you know, today is September
• 1:48:44
  9th. You know, I go to work Monday
• 1:48:48
  through Thursday and I work from home on Friday because that's
• 1:48:51
  what my company does. I work Monday through Friday
• 1:48:54
  'cause that's what the world does.
• 1:48:57
  Change is inevitable. And if we label things properly
• 1:49:02
  and we respect that our ancestors had a different world
• 1:49:05
  view and we do our best to learn it, we can only gain good
• 1:49:09
  things. And to understand that the
• 1:49:13
  church did become the overwhelming majority for well
• 1:49:18
  over 1000 years. I mean it.
• 1:49:21
  It's not something that makes me smile.
• 1:49:23
  I'm sad about it. But it is the case that
• 1:49:25
  Christianity was completely crushed and that there are more
• 1:49:29
  churches today in many parts of Germany than there are people
• 1:49:33
  even thinking about Thunar and Woden.
• 1:49:38
  It makes me sad. And some asatur I've met in
• 1:49:42
  Germany they keep Wiccan holidays.
• 1:49:46
  I I've only met a couple that are even studying the the
• 1:49:50
  Icelandic sources for that matter.
• 1:49:53
  And look if that works for them. It does.
• 1:49:55
  But it's not old ways. These ways were crushed and it
• 1:49:59
  brings me no pleasure to say. And the church was brutal.
• 1:50:04
  It would not allow heathens to remain heathen.
• 1:50:09
  It would not allow witches in their witch hunts to survive.
• 1:50:14
  And it sucks, but we reconstruct what we can.
• 1:50:19
  And you know, if you want to compare Santa Claus to Odin,
• 1:50:22
  fine. But that doesn't mean there's a
• 1:50:24
  historical connection. Right.
• 1:50:26
  Yeah, the nuance, the syncretism.
• 1:50:28
  I mean like you know you can 8 legs and. 8 reindeer fine if you
• 1:50:34
  want to make that connection, but it's more more of a
• 1:50:36
  coincidence. Yeah, you know.
• 1:50:40
  So well. I always go back to what
• 1:50:42
  tradition is, you know, and I'm probably not the first to say
• 1:50:45
  it. I'm almost assured I know I'm
• 1:50:47
  not the first to say what tradition to me means is has
• 1:50:51
  been said by others before. Is it's it's the the it's not
• 1:50:55
  the worship of the ashes. It's the preservation of fire
• 1:50:58
  and, you know, we, we talk about fire in the, in the, in the
• 1:51:01
  sacred sense and how it's been used to define and claim land
• 1:51:05
  and define sacred space and all these things.
• 1:51:07
  It's, you know, preserving that fire, keeping that Germanic
• 1:51:10
  flame alive. It's, you know, those of us that
• 1:51:14
  are doing what we're doing is, is in the interest of, of that.
• 1:51:18
  I believe in the spirit of the tradition and, and tradition
• 1:51:22
  evolves and tradition grows and there's, there's things about
• 1:51:25
  what we're talking about that have, that are documented that
• 1:51:29
  have sources behind it and, and preserving that and keeping that
• 1:51:32
  flame glowing and vibrant means a lot to some of us.
• 1:51:39
  And I think when, when, when following the spirit of that,
• 1:51:44
  like you say, you know, that's a, that's a good thing.
• 1:51:46
  And, and what works in modern times, how you have to adjust
• 1:51:51
  and evolve. You know, obviously, like you
• 1:51:53
  say, you know, you're not a butcher, you don't know the, the
• 1:51:55
  proper way of, of slaughtering an animal.
• 1:51:57
  And you're not going to just do something for the sake of, well,
• 1:52:01
  that's the way it was done 1700 years ago or whatever, when you
• 1:52:04
  don't know what the hell you're doing.
• 1:52:06
  That's, I believe a, a, a, you know, our ancestors wouldn't,
• 1:52:11
  you know, do it if they didn't know what they were doing
• 1:52:12
  either. I don't think they wouldn't take
• 1:52:14
  that sort of step to, to disrespect or dishonor the life
• 1:52:18
  of an animal. I mean, a blacksmith's not going
• 1:52:20
  to be, you know, the one to, to, to farm if they're not the
• 1:52:24
  farmer or the this or the that, you know, everybody had their
• 1:52:27
  role. Everybody knew what they were
• 1:52:28
  supposed to be doing. So in a in, in, in a way, in, in
• 1:52:32
  a sort of, you know, contextual way, you know, we're keeping
• 1:52:37
  that tradition alive. We're, we're doing what we can
• 1:52:39
  with what we got and, and doing it the best way possible.
• 1:52:44
  So I agree and we're just trying to do the best we can.
• 1:52:46
  There's no insincerity, I think on either of our parts.
• 1:52:49
  We're not trying to attack certain traditions that we're
• 1:52:54
  not historically pre Christian heathen, but now people want to
• 1:52:58
  say we're it's we're really looking to see what the
• 1:53:02
  historical sources say and take an academic approach to it.
• 1:53:06
  Yeah, and it even touches a little bit as on, on like the,
• 1:53:09
  the, you know, appropriation of things, you know, like that's a
• 1:53:12
  big thing that people talk about too, is, is, you know, well, how
• 1:53:15
  can you, how can you claim this thing and that or the other if
• 1:53:17
  you're not from here, you're not doing that or whatever.
• 1:53:19
  It's, you know, there's a fine line, I believe between, you
• 1:53:22
  know, appropriation or there is the, there's, there's a line,
• 1:53:26
  maybe not necessarily fine line, but there's a line between
• 1:53:28
  appropriating something and appreciating something and
• 1:53:31
  keeping the tradition alive in the, in the spirit of it.
• 1:53:35
  Nobody's nobody's trying to claim something that isn't ours
• 1:53:39
  or or isn't theirs. See, I don't even understand
• 1:53:42
  that thought. Like people have said that like
• 1:53:46
  there's one person in particular who had a rant who got her name
• 1:53:52
  was smeared. I can't remember she's from
• 1:53:55
  Washington or Oregon, but she had a rant against Hispanic
• 1:53:59
  individual I think it was. And she called them all sorts of
• 1:54:02
  names and said you're stealing our traditions.
• 1:54:06
  Look, I, I, I don't understand the mentality.
• 1:54:08
  Not from a racist point of view. Don't get me wrong, I believe
• 1:54:11
  racism and bigotry are wrong. But unlike an ethnocentric
• 1:54:15
  religion like the Druze or the Samaritans or Judaism, Heathenry
• 1:54:23
  wasn't kept from times until today.
• 1:54:28
  It's not an ethnicity and a religion.
• 1:54:32
  How can something be stolen if our people gave up Thor and Odin
• 1:54:38
  and worship Jesus in its place? We're trying to reclaim these if
• 1:54:43
  anything. Yeah, no one can steal.
• 1:54:46
  We can reclaim something. But sadly when we accepted
• 1:54:49
  Christ, that's the problem with Christ.
• 1:54:51
  It's non compromising. What pending if you talk to a
• 1:54:54
  Jew or a Christian? Is it the first or second
• 1:54:56
  commandment? But there should be no other
• 1:54:57
  gods besides me. Yeah.
• 1:55:00
  That's an uncompromising. That's.
• 1:55:03
  Position. Yeah, right.
• 1:55:06
  Yep. So we are trying to reclaim and
• 1:55:10
  and that's the thing. And and they'll argue that too.
• 1:55:13
  You know, what about may Poles? I mean, we're reclaiming it for
• 1:55:16
  our, you know, I, I'd say more reclaim the title of Yule
• 1:55:21
  because at least we can prove that that's Germanic.
• 1:55:23
  Heathen, Yeah. So I guess in a nutshell, that's
• 1:55:28
  my final thing. It's if if a tradition that
• 1:55:32
  isn't pre Christian is something you want to keep.
• 1:55:35
  I'm not going to say no but can can we look in study honestly
• 1:55:40
  label things better through historical research and
• 1:55:44
  reconstruction and that's that's it.
• 1:55:48
  And if people want to say I'm trying to ruin heathen re or
• 1:55:51
  steal it, which the people have accused me of, I'm not trying to
• 1:55:54
  steal. What can I steal, you know?
• 1:55:58
  What the hell, man? I'm just trying to figure it out
• 1:56:00
  and I'm not saying I'm right 100% of the time, but I give it
• 1:56:03
  my best effort and. Yeah, and I appreciate that.
• 1:56:07
  I'm always learning too. And that's what's that's what's
• 1:56:09
  great. And that's what I appreciate
• 1:56:10
  about having folks like you that have been doing this for longer
• 1:56:13
  than I have and that have that have gone down the academic
• 1:56:15
  route and that have, you know you, you've been a very
• 1:56:18
  influential part in my studies. And I don't lean heavily or
• 1:56:21
  entirely on everything you say. I I find what you say and then I
• 1:56:24
  go and I find other things and I go, all right, well, what else
• 1:56:27
  is there out here? Can can, you know, is there a
• 1:56:30
  consensus that can be drawn or, or whatever?
• 1:56:32
  I'm not, you know, I don't have Robert on my podcast because I
• 1:56:35
  think he's the end all be all and I'm not the end all be all,
• 1:56:38
  right. I just, I like to hear the minds
• 1:56:40
  of folks that have taken the time and that have put in the
• 1:56:42
  work that can share these things and that are willing to share.
• 1:56:46
  And that's what that's the beauty of it and I appreciate
• 1:56:48
  that. And then if we're going to be a
• 1:56:51
  community, which I don't know if Heathenry can be, because look,
• 1:56:55
  you can go to a synagogue and you know that they're going to
• 1:56:58
  celebrate all the biblical holidays.
• 1:57:01
  But people in Germanic heathen circles, whether it's as a true
• 1:57:05
  Al Sidhu foreign set or whatever, we're not keeping all
• 1:57:09
  the same holidays at the same time.
• 1:57:11
  So there's not agreement yet, and I'm not saying Christians
• 1:57:14
  all agree either because you have many sects.
• 1:57:16
  But no matter if there's 1616 thousand different Christian
• 1:57:19
  denominations in the United States, that's way overblown
• 1:57:22
  because they all do Christmas on December 25th.
• 1:57:25
  They all go to church on Sunday. I mean, if we want to build
• 1:57:30
  community, we do need to wrestle with these things.
• 1:57:33
  And I don't think we're going to have community like those large
• 1:57:38
  religions have your you can find it locally or maybe in your
• 1:57:41
  family if you get people that all agree.
• 1:57:44
  And that's why this is passionate because holidays and
• 1:57:48
  rituals, those are the things that a community does together
• 1:57:53
  and a community has to agree on at least enough so that they can
• 1:57:56
  get together in harmony. If they're going to fight over
• 1:57:59
  it, then they're not a community.
• 1:58:02
  Yeah, they're kind of shooting themselves in the foot.
• 1:58:04
  That's why people get passionate too.
• 1:58:07
  I think about this, not only do they want to make sure Christian
• 1:58:11
  things that they love, that they struggle to let go of are
• 1:58:13
  labeled as he then historically, but I think because they
• 1:58:16
  understand that to have a community, you need people to
• 1:58:19
  agree. So they're going to fight over
• 1:58:21
  it. Yeah, Oh, man, maybe we'll get,
• 1:58:24
  maybe we'll get closer to where we are or maybe we'll get closer
• 1:58:28
  than where we are now eventually.
• 1:58:30
  But like I, I, I do what I do here on this platform in for the
• 1:58:36
  larger scale stuff. But at the end of the day, it's
• 1:58:39
  what what's happening locally to me in, in, you know, in my
• 1:58:44
  immediate circle, because that's where Heathenry for me is most
• 1:58:49
  vibrant. The people that matter and the
• 1:58:53
  people that want to align like it's, it's gonna, it's gonna
• 1:58:57
  happen in the in that sort of way.
• 1:58:58
  It's, there's, this is it, this is a version of it that, you
• 1:59:02
  know, talking about it on a podcast and then having it on a
• 1:59:04
  platform for people to, to listen about.
• 1:59:06
  I feel like it's a seed that's being sort of distributed out,
• 1:59:09
  you know, and, and take it if you, if you want, take it or
• 1:59:12
  leave it. We're not saying you got to do
• 1:59:14
  it this way, but you know, maybe it plants a seed and it helps
• 1:59:18
  with, with the future of Heathenry, North America or
• 1:59:23
  abroad, who knows? Well, I'm thankful that we've
• 1:59:26
  had our third interview and you know, I've enjoyed it and I
• 1:59:32
  imagine they'll be a number four sometime, so I would love.
• 1:59:35
  To yeah, 100% man, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm still willing to have
• 1:59:38
  you back on here and thank you for your availability and, and
• 1:59:41
  willing to spend the two hours that we've spent now almost
• 1:59:45
  talking about this. And for the folks that catch
• 1:59:47
  this, you know, if you've made it this far, you, you know,
• 1:59:52
  you're the real MVPS for, for having run through this, this 2
• 1:59:55
  hour episode. Leave your comments, share your
• 1:59:58
  thoughts, check out Robert's blog on alsidhu.com.
• 2:00:03
  If you're on Facebook and you want to visit the Al Sidhu Saxon
• 2:00:06
  Heathen community link for that will be down in the description
• 2:00:09
  and show notes as well. And yeah, I, I appreciate you,
• 2:00:13
  Robert. Man, this has been great.
• 2:00:14
  It was more than what I was expecting from from this time
• 2:00:17
  today. So, so thank you very much for
• 2:00:19
  for your time. You're so welcome.
• 2:00:21
  Yeah, I'm going to go hang with my wife, who's been sitting next
• 2:00:24
  to me quietly waiting for me. So.
• 2:00:26
  OK, great. Well, I'll, I'll, I'll say
• 2:00:29
  goodbye to you real quick offline.
• 2:00:31
  Just give me a minute to sign everybody off.
• 2:00:33
  So for the folks that have listened and watched, thank you
• 2:00:36
  so much for your support. Appreciate you tuning into this
• 2:00:39
  episode this week. Leave your thoughts in the
• 2:00:40
  comments section wherever you can.
• 2:00:43
  And until we hear from each other again, may the gods
• 2:00:46
  continue to notice you and may your ancestors smile upon you.
• 2:00:50
  We'll see you all in the next one.