Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / ADHD, Kink and Sex with Cate Osborn

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ADHD, Kink and Sex with Cate Osborn · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Never told you protection of I Heeart Radio, and we
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: are so thrilled today to be joined by podcaster extraordinaire
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: generally awesome human who does a lot of amazing things,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Kate Osborne. Thank you so much for joining us. Hello,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: thanks for having extraordinaire right off the bat, like, wow,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: right now you've only got the pressure. The pressure is on.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Now sound smart. It's gonna be great. Oh that's okay, No,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: not on this podcast. You'll probably sound smart no matter what.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: But your your biography is pretty impressive in itself, so yeah,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you're going to meet Those bars are low
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: any and I don't put them very high for ourselves,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: so everybody else is impressive. I also like that impressive
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: is a really fan see way of saying makes absolutely
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: no sense, but I like I like that. I'm just
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: saying it's impressive. You know, that's a good way, because
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of times interesting takes that
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: place where you're like, that's interesting in what you mean
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: is I don't know what to do with what is happening.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Impressive is a nicer way, right, It's good it's good. Yeah,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: I agree. I agree. So could you introduce yourself to
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: our listeners. Yeah. So my name is Kate. I go
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: by Katia Saurus on the social media's um and. I
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: am a d h D advocate. I'm a neurodivergent content
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: creator and educator um and. I am a certified sex
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: educator with a special interest in neurodivergency and the intersections
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: of like sex and intimacy and a d h D
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: and autism and everything that kind of falls under the
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: neurodivergent umbrella. Um and. Also, I play a lot of
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: dungeons and dragons, but that it's not what we're here
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: to talk about today with Sometimes I just feel like
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: I have to say it, like legally, I have to
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: be like Also, that's part of what I think. I
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: think it's it's a good preface and it should be
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: in the introduction, just because we know we're going to
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: go down this road between Annie's love war and my own,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: like what it's gonna go down, that's a good good preface, agreed, Agreed,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: um And I mean just in that bio, I've already
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: have so many questions and things I want to follow,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: but I do want to have kind of get this
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: NERD talk out of the way in Samantha's like a
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: wonderful supportive co host who lets me do this. Um.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: So I was recently on your podcast and we just
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: really hit it off. We kind of discovered were like
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: the same person and someone yea in several many ways. Yes.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: So first of all, can you tell people about your podcasts? Yeah,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: So I have a podcast. It's called Katie and Eric's
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Infinite Quest in a d h D Adventure, which is
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: a very long title. It's fine, um, but we talked
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: about life with a d h D and depression and
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: navigating life is nerrow divergent adults. Um. But we also
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: play D and D on podcast sometimes. UM. And so
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: one of the things that kind of came out of
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: this it was it started out as a joke. It
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: was a joke episode, UM. But what came out of
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: this was a lot of really important conversations about accessibility
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: and inclusivity in like tabletop role playing games, um, which
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: is sort of like the other arm of what I do.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: So I'm a certified sex educator. I talked about like
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: NERD divergent relationships, but I also go to a lot
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: of conventions and I go and do a lot of
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: spaces and I say, hey, let's make the gaming table
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: more welcoming for everybody. And so it's sort of like
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: my very passionate about it. Yes, and that's actually how
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: you and I met, even though we kind of didn't
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: realize we had met. Yeah, Like I was like, oh, yes,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: we all right. I'm great. I'm terrible with remembering people's
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: names because I can't picture stuff in my head and
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: so I can't remember faces very well. Uh, And so
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, we've we've met several times.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: That's really embarrassing, but it's fine. That's not good. I
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: think we were sitting next to each other. So we
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: were on this a panel at Dragon Con last year.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: I think it was Women in Digital Media. I was
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: so nervous. It was at seven pm on a Sunday,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: and I was like, I can barely remember what happened,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: except that you told me about that turkey fact I did,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: and you say, because you're talking about your your food,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: and then I was just like, hey, I have a
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: I have a fun food fact. And that's because that's
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: how to make friends, as I just info dump with
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: people until they like me, So that's my strategy. Well
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: it worked, yes, yes, So if you don't mind me
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: asking before we get into kind of more serious stuff, Well,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: this could be serious. How did you get into D
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: and D? Oh man, it's it's not it's not a
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: very interesting story. But my dad played DN d UM
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: and Uh. He was always trying to get me into
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: D and D. And he was like, you're perfect for it,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: like you're a theater kid. You literally work in an
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: improv theater. Like it's just improv but with math. And
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: that was the part that I always kind of like
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: scared me because I'm terrible at math. Um, I actually
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: have dis calculia, which also is impossible to say. I
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: hate that word. Um, but I'm I'm awful at math
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: and I have like a lot of like math anxiety.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: And so I was always scared to play D N
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: d UM. And then when my dad passed away, a
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: friend of his from college was like, hey, I've had
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: this box of your dad's stuff in my basement for years,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: Like do you want it? I was like sure, And
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: it was like all of my dad's old DN D
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: books from like when he had been in college. Um,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: and so I inherited like my dad's old dn D
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: books and his like character sheets and all of this stuff,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: and I just felt like really close to my dad. Um.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: And so I started kind of getting into T TRPT.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: But fun fact, the first T t RPD I ever
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: played was actually not dn D. It was Star Wars
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Edge of the Empire. It was the first yeah, which
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: was it was the first RPG that I I ever played. Um.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: And then I got into D n D through that
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: because I was like, Okay, well this isn't like so bad,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Like there's a little math, but it's all right. Um.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: And then I found out that there's like D and
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: D Beyond exist and I'll just like do the math
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: for you. And I was like, oh cool, I can
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: play this game now. So that's that's my story. Yeah,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: that's a good one. I mean, I also was intimidated
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: by it because I thought I just thought it was
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: so complicated. It was so like all these rule books
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: and I just thought, you know, I've come a long
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: way since then. But I was like, that is I'm
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: going to come in and these dude bros Are gonna
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: tell me like you don't know what you're doing. And
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: then I'm gonna walk away, which is probably what's going
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: to happen. But then I had a friend he was
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: really into it, and he I was struggling with PTSD
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: and he said, like, this would be a good way
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: for you to to deal with some of that. And
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: also I was trying to write the ending of this
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: book and I saw I was like, if I put
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: her in there, maybe I can figure out the ending.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: But we've talked about that a lot on this show
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: about how you can use these tabletop games. Now it's
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: a type of therapy, but as a way to sort
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: of work through things. Um, and it did it, even
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: though the ending of the book turned out to not
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: be Now, I run games and I have for a
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: long time, and I feel like I'm happy to see
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: that that's diversifying and more people are getting into it,
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: because I do think there is an intimidation factor around
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: the numbers and the rules. Yeah, absolutely, but I think
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: like that's one of the things that I get really
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: excited about is that like you don't have to, like
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: you don't, you don't have to you know, you don't
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: have to use in conference if you don't want to,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Like you don't I have to do the spell. I
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: don't believe that anybody in the world he uses spell components.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: I'm sure there's some like, but I just like, I've
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: never played at other's just like, yeah, I just cast
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: a spell whatever, it's fine. Like I'm just like all right,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: you know. So it's like I think, like it's it's
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: cool because they're very clear upfront. It's like it's meant
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: to be adaptable, it's meant to be changeable. It's like
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: play to have fun. And so I think that that's
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: like I've been really lucky in that way that I've
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: I've never run well, I've read into a few jerks,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: but not not too many. Yeah. Same, I feel like
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: I was really lucky. My first game master, Junge Semester,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: he he was very like he knew rules, but he
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: was also flexible, like he didn't want that to slow
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: down the game. He didn't want it to become a
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: miserable like whoa on this page. I have run into
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: some jerks, but usually my experience has been pretty good,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: which makes me happy that you're doing a great job.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: I just want you to know I'm listening. No, I'm
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: just thinking that it really is a big difference, no
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: matter what you're in, but especially when it's a male
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: dominated area light table top and as well as D
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: and D. For the longest time, there was no conversation
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: about women being more involved and non binary posts being
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: more involved and being intersectional in itself, because we know
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: that when it comes to anything, when it comes to
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: passion and love, if intersectionality is not a part of it,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: then it kind of does kill off so many people's
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: spirits to even want to be a part of that,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: and having people like you who are involved, you and Annie,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: but also taking the reins to show and navigate and
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: mentor people, that's a big deal. And I think it's
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: amazing this conversation, especially to be able to be like,
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: you know, it's getting better. We've had experiences, but we're
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: making it different and that's a huge part of growing
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: um in just ourselves and just also something that your
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: father loved. Oh my god, that's even more amazing than
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: you'll be able to expand upon that. I feel like
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: I want to applaud for that. That was really good.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: That was that was I mean, that's like, even though
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: I have no understanding about casting spells and numbers, I
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: had no idea math was a part of those. I
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: was like, I know it's a lot about good storytelling
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: and almost improv and acting that I don't know what
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: I'm not good at. So that's my own part, but like, wow,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: this is such a depth that I don't know, So
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: it's kind of fun to watch. It is funt Actually
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: it is fun to watch people loving it and then
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out what is happening. It's a mystery
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: of itself. For me, I always say it's a lot
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: of project management. It's a whole thing. And Samantha's she
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: wants to come in and sort of observe as we play,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: almost as if she's like making a documentary about look
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: at these nerds. I want to do as if I'm
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: the not the announcer, commentator, as of a sport. I
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: want to come in as that of not knowing anything.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: I think it's the amazing and fascinating and hoous because
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: I am. I do have a lot of questions. I'm
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: going to have a lot of questions. That's great, uh,
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: speaking of podcasts, because that was my podcast idea. I
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: love that you have made D and D a part
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: of it. So what came first the D N D
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: or the d n D in the podcast or the podcast,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: and they're like, let's do some D and D oh gosh, okay.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: So I have an answer for this, and I promise
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: it will sound like an answer at the end. It's
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: not going to sound like an answer at the start,
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: but this is my answer. So one of the things
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: so it's it's a podcast about a d h D,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: it's a podcast about being neurodivergent UM. And one of
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: the things that is very common UM in the neurodivergion,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: especially like a d h D experience, is that we're
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: told our whole life that we have to choose, that
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: we have to pick, that we have to like pick
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: the career, pick the hobby, pick the focus, or pick whatever.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: But a very very common theme for many people with
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: a d h D is that it's extremely difficult for
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: us to choose, or like, we choose crochet for two weeks,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: and then the dopamine wears off and then we never
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: you know, crochet again. But the next week we're gonna
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: try watercolors, and then the next week after that we're
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: going to learn how to play the trumpet, and then
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: the next week after that, and the next week after that,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: and that has been my entire life, Like that has
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: been the experience of of my entire adult life. And
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: being told that that's wrong, and being told that that's bad,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: and being told that there's something like fundamentally flawed about
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: living your life like that, and I just so fundamentally
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: disagree because I think that one of the beauties of
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: the world. One of the most extraordinary things about life
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: is that you can just wake up one day and
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: be like, I'm gonna get really into art history this month,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: and then next month, you know, get really into cooking
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: or whatever. But all of those experiences add up. All
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: of those experiences give you something, teach you something, you
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: learn something, you take something away from that experience. Even
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: if you you know, get really into art history and
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: then you never do it again. When you get really
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: into movies, you still know a little bit of about composition.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: And when you know a little bit about movies, then
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: when you start, you know, having a podcast, then you
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: know a little bit about editing, you know, and it compounds.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: And so when we when we started making the podcast,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: one of the things that was really important to us
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: was that we just wanted to authentically represent the experience
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: of living with a d H D, And so for
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: us and for me, d n D is part of it,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: like dn D is one of my passions. It's certainly
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: not the only passion that I have, but it's one
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: of them. Um. And the feedback that we got, like
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: the first episode was very like silly. It was a
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: one off, like special episode. And then the internet. We
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: broke the internet, um and and then people just said,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: it's so cool to not only hear people have these
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: experiences like we have, but also play D and D
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: like us, where we get distracted, there are awkward pauses,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: we started, we stumble, we we get off track. We
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: spend twenty five minutes trying to unlock an unlocked door.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: That's a real thing that happened one time because we
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: literally just didn't hear the d M say the door
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: was unlocked. So it's less about the D and D,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: I think, and more about just authentically representing the experience
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: of living as ourselves and being very unapologetic about that.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: But now people do costplay as me, and that's weird.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: So that's amazing, that's awesome. You know, you hit on
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: something that Annie and I often talk about when it
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: comes to people asking us about podcasting and how do
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: we do it and what do we focus on is
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: like we think that our listeners, um and our fan
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: base like it when we're real, when we're honest, and
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: when we're authentic, and that that when they can connect,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: they have a moment of like these are my friends,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: they say, see me, even though I might we might
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: not know their specific situation, but because we can, they
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: can relate to well our situation that they hear from
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: the first time. Oh my gosh, yeah that's me. This
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: is amazing and I love that. Has that been you
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: experience with podcasting? Yeah, I mean absolutely. Um so, like
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: the podcast started out because so so my podcast partner,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: his name is Eric, and Eric is a TikTok or
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: the same way that I'm in TikToker. And in August
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: two years ago, I reached out and I sent him
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: a message and I said, the laws of a d
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: H D TikTok dictate that we must do a collap
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: and he was like, great, we should. We should do
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: a collapse sometime and so we exchanged phone numbers with
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: the intention of doing one sixties second video together. So
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: I called him the first night we talked for three
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: and a half hours the second night, and we're like, oh,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: we forgot to talk about the video. The second night,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: I called him back, we talked for four and a
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: half hours, still didn't talk about the video. Third night.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Like this went on for like a week and a half,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: but we would just called me like, yeah, we're totally
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: going to talk about the video, and then we would
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: just talk for hours about everything. And so at some
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: point on a TikTok live that I was doing, I
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: said I told that story and I was like, oh
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: my gosh, and somebody in the comments and I still
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: wish I wish I knew who they were because they
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: changed my life forever. But they said I would give
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: anything to listen to that conversation, like how much money
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: do you want? And I kind of jokingly said that's eric.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: I was like, apparently people think we have something to say,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: and we're like, well, we're millennials. Do you want to
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: make a podcast? And then the next thing we knew
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: we were like a top fifty mental health podcast and
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: we were one of the only podcasts specifically, not specifically,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: but tangentially talking about a d h D and sex
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: and intimacy in particular like a D H D and
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: like kink and and that kind of stuff. Um. And
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: so it just its spiraled so quickly, but it absolutely
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: spiraled out of the fact that the fee fact we
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: kept hearing was I've never heard anybody talk like me.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: I've never heard anybody organize their ideas like me. I've
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: always been told that I talked too faster, I talked
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: too round about or whatever, um, And we're like, yeah,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: we're not going to edit it that much. Like well,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: this kind of like Annie knows she was on the podcast,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: it's a it's a mess, um, but like that's but
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: that's kind of like what we stand for. It is
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: just sort of very authentically like being yourselves and sometimes
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: having hard conversations and sometimes having tough conversations. But sometimes
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: she's being like, you want to talk about cheese, like
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: you know, and and that's okay too. I think there,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: I think there's validity and all of that agreed. And
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Samantha knows. After I was on on your show, I
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: was like, oh god, I've never even answered any of
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: her questions because I got distracted. That's the beauty of it,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, it's just like your answer is
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: your answer. Even if the answer isn't the answer specifically,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: it's still an answer. Yeah. We talked about the phrase
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: that I was told because of the way I would
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: speak when people would ask me questions. It's like I
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: was chasing rabbits, because it'd be like me hopping all
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: over the place trying to get to my point and
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: never getting there. So I was like, yeah, that's about right.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: I get that. I understand that to my soul. Yes. Uh, well,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: do you mind talking about your experience with a d
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: h D, how it's impacted your life, diagnosis, all that stuff. Yeah? Sure. Um,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: so I was actually diagnosed very late. Um. I was
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: diagnosed the day before my thirtieth birthday, which was very interesting.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: But my diagnosis story is a little bit different than
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: a lot of people is because Um, I actually had
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: a no veryan tortion UM zero out of ten do
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: not recommend. I almost died, um. But they ultimately had
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: to remove my I have to check left to my left,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: and I always forget my leftoverary, and so when they
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: removed my ovary, it's set off a hormonal shift that
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: was so profound owned that it really exacerbated my underlying
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: a d h D. And so when I went to
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: go get kind of tested to sort of figure out
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: what was going on, because honestly, I thought I had
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: early onset dementia. I had no idea that I had
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: a d h D at all. I was just like,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: Oh my God, like what's going on. I'm going crazy,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: like what's happening? Um. I got really lucky in that
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: my doctor was very informed about a d h D
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: in in women, um, and so she basically was just like, yeah,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: you're a d h D is really linked to your hormones.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: And I said what uh, and like yeah. And so
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: then I started doing research, and I started doing more
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: research and more research, and I started realizing that there
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: were all of these places and all of these like
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: intersections of a d h D that nobody talks about
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: and and nobody highlights or anything. Like. There was a
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: study general I always bring this up on interviews because
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: I'm just like, I'm so heated about it. Um. But
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: there's a study then recently where they where they looked
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: at a bunch of like a fab people, um, and
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: they tested them for a d h D. But they
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: tested them for a d h D at different points
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: in their month Leae cycles, and depending on where they
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: were in their cycle, the hormonal shift was so significant
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: that some people would test like essentially positive for a
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: d h D. That's not the term, but whatever. They
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: would test like, yes, you have a d h D.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: But then at other points of the month they wouldn't
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: because their hormones were like in check enough to where
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: they didn't have like the same issues. And so I
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: realized that there's like this massively underserved population of people
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: who don't know like how profoundly things are are related.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: And then sort of even more out of that as
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: I started learning more about like a d h D
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: and how it affects just life, because there's there's this
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: misnomber there's like the strange stereotype I guess about a
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: d h D that it's like a d h D
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: is for work, it's for school, it's you forget to
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: answer emails, you you don't pay attention in class or whatever.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: But it's like, no, if you have a d h D,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: it affects every single moment of your day, from waking
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: up to going to bed, like literally like sleep is
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: affected by a d h D. Falling asleep as affected
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: by a d h d um. And the more I learned,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: kind of the more angry I got, because I was like,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: first off, how was it? How did how did they
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: miss this in me for thirty years? And it's because
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: I was a high achiever. I was great at school.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: I'm academically very talented, and so I realized there were
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: just like so many people out there who were struggling
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: and feeling like they were broken and feeling like they
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: were screw ups and that they couldn't do anything right
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: and like, oh, you're so good at school, but why
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: is your room a mess? Like that kind of narrative
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: over and over and over, and I said I I
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: want to talk about this, and then two million people
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: were like, Okay, agreed, let's go. Agreed. That's amazing because
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: as you're saying all this is there's a moment. But
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: the way it collects about the conversation about pregnancy fog
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: And I'm wondering how that is connected to a d
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: h D because I don't hear much about that literally,
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: just kind of a comedic ha women in pregnancy kind
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: of dismissive conversation when an actual maybe it's the underlying
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: diagnosis and or yeah, just a hormonal shift that we
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: don't talk enough about, which they do talk about hormones,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: and of course everything is blamed on hormones and it
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: is to blame, but we don't talk about the deeper
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: net level, the misdiagnosis um and on our show repeatedly,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: we've had these conversations when it comes to diagnosis and
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: women and how it is under diagnosed because just like you,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: it's all over the place where it's like, oh, but
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: you're you're functioning. Oh, you're fine on this level, so
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: there must be nothing wrong with you other than you're
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: just high strung, you're just a woman type of conversation,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: and or you are a fab as you were talking
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: about and being very dismissive of those conversations. Since your
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: discovery of this, how has this impacted your life? Oh
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: my god, I mean it completely changed my life forever.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: Like this is now my job, you know, Like that's
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: like first off, like I literally talked about a d
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: h D for my job, which is strange. I did
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: not think I have like two master's degrees in Shakespeare.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: This is not supposed to be my wife. Um. I
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: was supposed to be teaching about Romeo and Juliet and
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: some like dusty college library somewhere. But I mean, I
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: think more than anything, what what has happened is that
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: I've I've just learned a lot, and I've realized how
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: necessary these conversations are. And I realized there's nothing worse
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: than somebody going on a podcast and be like, yeah,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: this is a really important conversation to have because it's like,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: but it is, you know, but it absolutely is. UM.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: And as I started talking more and educating more and
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: advocating more, UM, I kept just hearing the same stories
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: over and over again, misdiagnosis, underdiagnosis, late diagnosis, UM, you know,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: like all of these different things, and just realizing how
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: profoundly it affects people and how profoundly difficult it is
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: to navigate life when you're struggling with the bare minimums.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: But being told that there's no reason you should be
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: struggling with the bare minimums. That it should be easy
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: to do your dishes, it should be easy to do
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: your laundry, it should be easy to have your house
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: should be immaculate, and your children should be fed, you know,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: like that kind of thing, um. And in reality, it
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: is extremely difficult for a lot of people, and then
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: even more sort of like recently and immediately, the pandemic
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: broke a lot of people's systems. It broke down a
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: lot of people's structures. The safety nets and and the
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: and the things that they had in place to sort
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: of support themselves throughout the day. Those all went away,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: and a lot of people still are not recovered from
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: that and and are still like sort of like, oh
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: my gosh, like I do have a d h D.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Or I have been autistic this entire time, and I
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: had no idea, you know, that kind of thing. And
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: so there's been just like I think, a profound shift
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: in my own understanding of of neurodivergency and how it
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: affects me in my life, which I don't actually think
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: was the answer to the question that you asked at all,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: But I just started talking because I panicked. So there
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: you go. That was exactly because it is that you
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: talked about the fact that it kind of yes to
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: really change your life, because if became your job obviously
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: changed your life as you started to understand yourself and
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: your own um conversations in your mind or lack of conversations,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Are you know, weary of conversations, whatever it may be,
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: but it makes more sense, and there is that aha
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: moment of like, oh, oh my god, this explains so
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: much when you've been beating yourself up thinking that you
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: were doing something wrong. Yeah, exactly, I mean, and especially
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: you know, like out of the sort of a d
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: h D stuff came the fact that I went back
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: to school and I became a certified sex educator. UM.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: And that was honestly like a really sort of pivotal
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: moment for me and like a very enlightening moment for me,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: because I had spent a really long time thinking that
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: I was just broken, like I was just sex broken,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Like sex was just this weird, amalgamous thing that like
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: I wasn't good at it. I didn't understand it, and
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: I didn't understand my body and my brain and like
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: they're they very rarely connect. Like I sort of live
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: in my head and I have like this like body
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: attached like inconveniently so UM and realizing that a lot
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: of that just has to do with my nerro divergency.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: It has to do with with the physical way that
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: my brain interprets information and takes in stimulus and that
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff. UM, I was honestly, like I mean
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: kind of like vulnerably. I was really able to release
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: a lot of like the shame and guilt that I
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: that I had around like sex and intimacy because I
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: was like, oh, I'm not a bad person because I
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: get bored during sex, like that's my a d H D.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Like I'm not a creepy weirdo because I I'm really
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: into kink, Like no, kink is a totally valid and
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: beautiful and wonderful thing that is a tool that a
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: lot of people who require like additional stimulus like during
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: intimacy use, you know. And so it really I think
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: has been a very quick, like fast paced journey. UM,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: but it's it's been really incredible, like realizing like how
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: much self acceptance is wrapped up in just understanding how
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: your brain works and why your brain it's the way
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: way it does. And that's been that's been extremely powerful.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: We've heard from so many listeners who have had the
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: same a similar experience where they're like, I, when I
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: got the diagnosis, it's just just like I could breathe again,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: like I understood, um, and how powerful that was. And
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: I know from the conversation you and I had you
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: have a really active listenership and you're you're very vulnerable
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: on your show, which is something that I love. We've
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: also talked about how like taking care of yourself self
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: care is also important and kind of drawing that kind
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: of like what am I doing for the audience and
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: what is good for me? But through that, uh, you
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: told me like you have sort of become this expert,
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: and we talked about kind of the danger of that
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: term and the responsibility of that term. But around a
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: d h D and sex, and you already kind of
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: touched on some of this stuff, but um, could you
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: expound on on that a bit more? Yeah, So there's
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: just now uh, studies coming out that that specifically deal
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: with like a d h D and intimacy. Um. And
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: one of the things that I always like to clarify
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: write off the bat is like what I say a
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: d h D and sex, what I actually mean is
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: a d h D and relationships. I'm not talking about
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: like penis in vagina sex. I'm just talking about like
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: relationships as a whole. But sex is for some people
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: part of that. But so about forty to fifty of
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: people with a d h D struggle with sex and
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: intimacy and relationships UM. For a lot of people, that
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: looks like struggles like during like the sex act itself. UM.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: A lot of people struggle with like arousal and orgasm.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: A lot of people struggle with UM just like fundamentally
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: like turning their brain off and getting in the mood. UM.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Even more than that about depending on the study that
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: you read, between ninety and ninety nine percent of people
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: with a d h D experienced something called rejection sensitivity UM,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: which is fundamentally just a very like shorthanded term for
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: like the the huge amount of trauma that many neurodivergent
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: people just live with in their own life, Like kids
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: with a d h D experience twenty thousand more negative
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: messages about themselves than kids without a d h D UM.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: And so at some point you start to get a
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: little sensitive to like, oh, am I doing something wrong?
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: Am I doing something bad? But that carries over, that
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: doesn't just magically disappear, you know, on your eighteenth birthday. UM.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: And so a lot of people with a d h
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: D and other neurodivergency struggle in relationships because of like
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: this this host of issues in terms of things like
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: rejection sensitivity and you know, like I said earlier, focusing
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: during sex and and feeling like, you know, like they
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: they're doing something fundamentally wrong in their relationships. UM. And
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: just the more that I learned about that, and the
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: more that I got really just invested in in how
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: intimacy works in neurodivergent relationships. Again, I just realized that
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: there weren't a lot of conversations being had. Um. And
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: even more than that, the conversations that we're being had.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: This is like a sidebar. I'm sorry, I just realized
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: that I'm I'm chasing the rabbit, Samantha, That's what I'm doing.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Keep going. But so much sex education, the sex education
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: that exists, if it exists at all, UM, is absolutely
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: predicated on the notion that everybody involved is neurotypical. Is
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: that they don't have problems with directtion sensitivity. They're not
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: saying yes when they actually mean no because they're terrified
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: that they're going to lose their partner. Um. You know,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: they're they're able to remember conversations the same way. UM.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: You know, like there's so many discussions that are specific
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: to neurodivergent people. UM. But those conversations in sex said,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: like they're not being head, They're just saying, everybody here is,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: you know, thinks the same way and feels the same
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: way and acts the same way, and that's not true.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: And that's not and that's not even true about like
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: neuro typical people as well, like whether or not you
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: have a d h D, like you can have two
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: very different understandings of what the word, you know, like
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: intimacy means, or closeness means, or quality time means. This
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: isn't like just a special a d H day thing, um.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: And So the more that I learned in them, and
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: the more that I sort of started working towards educating
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: like in that capacity, the more that I just realized, like, Okay, well,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: if nobody's going to have a conversation that I guess
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: it'll be me, you know. And so like I've been
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: really lucky is that there there is a really big
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: push right now for a lot of diversity and a
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: lot of inclusivity and a lot of accessibility in sex
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: ed um, But so many neurodivergent and disabled people are
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: just infantilized or or de sexualized entirely. And it's like, oh,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: you're autistic. That's so cute that you have a boyfriend,
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: and it's like no, like I'm an adult, like you know,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: and so yeah, like there's just there's just so many
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: issues that I always getting really stressed out when somebody
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: else like talk about that more because I'm like, I
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: don't even there's so much. It's so much, and it's
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: so big, and it's so much all the time. Oh
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: my god. Yes, agreed. Uh, And I think that, first
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: of all, it's great that you're doing that because I
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: think this sex education is really deplorable in this country
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: and it's harmed a lot of people. Um, And I'm
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: glad to see that it's improving, but it's still got
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: so far to go. And it's true, like we don't
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: hear about that, And like you said earlier, I feel
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: like a lot of people's understanding of a d h D,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: when they don't know too much about it, is based
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: on like work and you know, school or whatever, but
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: not all these personal aspects. Um. Yeah, So I'm glad
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: that these conversations are happening, and like, as you say,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: it makes so much sense to me. Yeah. Well, and
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: and even more than that too, there's a lot of
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: just strangely incorrect information that lives out there, Like I
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: still hear like every day, Like the fact that I
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: hear about this every day is upsetting, But I hear
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: every day from people who will like, go to a
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: psychologist and they'll say, oh, well, they said that women
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: can't have a d h D. And I'm like, it's
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: two and there are still practicing medical professionals who say, oh,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: girls can't have a d h D or or girls
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: can't be autistic, Like that's another big one that I
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: get a lot um or you know, like, oh, well,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: you got good grades in school, so you can't have
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: a d h D. Or you know, you got a
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: degree in college or whatever, so you can't have a
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: d h D. And it's like, that's not how any
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: of this works, um. But because the stereotype is still
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: so fundamentally a white, sciss male seven year old boy
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: screwing around in the back of the classroom, there is
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: a lot of stigma and a lot of um, I think,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: like false narratives that people have to fall like fight
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: through to just simply be seen and heard and get
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: a diagnosis. And so when you know, a forty five
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: year old woman shows up at the doctor's office and says,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: I think I have a d h D. Like there
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: are doctors who will who will just be like, that's impossible,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: that can't possibly be the case. Somebody would have noticed.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: And it's like I am living proof that like there
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: are and it's not just there are millions of people
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: who are living proof that, you know, like sometimes you
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: get by until you can't get by anymore, and there
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: comes a breaking point. Um. And for a lot of
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: a fab people that comes in their thirties and their forties,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: it's it's not like some it's not like a little
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: kid thing. You know. I don't know. I don't know
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: how else to explain it, but I just get so frustrated. No,
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, what you're talking about at the core of
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: those is able is um. And it absolutely draws into
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: the idea that you can't be this for so long,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: denying and other people denying it because they don't want
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: to because it might be too close, it might hit
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: a little too close to home. Let's be honest, right now,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: this is hitting a little too close to home, j
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: king um. But the fact is it's the internalized able
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: is um that is within all of the conversation and
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: the fact that it shouldn't be it should be normalized
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: and have a conversation about this is not a bad thing,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: it is. This is a thing, and then when you
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: actually have an understanding of it, you can better move
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: on and grow in yourself. UM and I feel like
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: you've hit on that so hard. Can you kind of
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: go into what it looks like when able is UM
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: is a part of this conversation in itself buckling. So
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: this is not this is not specifically about a d
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: h D. But I have I have another. I have
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: an invisible disability. It's called dystonia UM. And dystonia basically
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: is characterized by unpredictable and unwanted muscle spasms that happen
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: all over your body. UM. For me, specifically, they happen
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: in my back and they happen in my hands. UM.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: And my dystonia was sort of like kicked off by
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: an accident that I had in a show that I
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: was doing. Um, I I fell That's not a good story,
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: but that's it. I fell down. Oh no, But I
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: spent almost four years trying to get a diagnosis UM.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: And as I went from doctor to doctor to doctor,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: one of the things that I kept happening to me
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: was one they would accuse me of making it up
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: because just stonia is extremely rare. Um. But even more
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: than that, I got a lot of like, it's all
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: in your head, or maybe it's period cramps. I got
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: a lot of like it must be cramps, and I'm like,
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: I literally can't walk, Like what are you talking about?
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: But I also got a lot of, Um, your too
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: pretty to be disabled. I've heard that I'm too pretty
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: to be disabled. I've heard that I'm too smart to
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: be disabled. Um, I've heard that I don't look like
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: I'm disabled. Um. And and that is so prevalent, is
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: that I feel like there is unfortunately one like if
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: you say the word disabled, like for many people, like
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: one specific image comes to mind, and that is a
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: person using a wheelchair, Like that is disability to many people. Um.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: And it's like, no, disability is not a monolith. And
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: for some people, like eight D is a profound disability. Um.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: And for other people it's like, yeah, I have a
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: d h D, but you know, I take medicine. I'm fine,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: you know. And because a disability is not a model
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: with and be like disability is also a spectrum, like
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: like whether it's you know, a d h D or
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: you know, paralysis or dystonia or whatever your particular issue,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: maybe that is a spectrum. And so from person to
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: person to person, it's like if you know one person
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: with a d h D, you know one person with
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: a d h D. Um. But because the narrative is
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: still like, oh well, this one person is going to
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: speak for the group. Um. That's why, like I honestly
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: get really nervous when I do interviews like this because
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: it's like, this is my experience, this is this is
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: my experience. Um. But the pushback that I get a
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: lot is that like, oh, well, you're so good at school,
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: Like that must have been so nice for you. I
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: had a really hard time in school, and I'm like,
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: that is also totally valid. There are many people with
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: a d h D who fail out of school and
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: and and fail over and over and over and they
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: can't make will happen. I got lucky and that school
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: was like my hyper focus, you know. But like those
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: are two very different experiences that are both exceptionally valid
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: and exceptionally important to acknowledge. And so then when you
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: start sort of talking about able ism as a whole.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: You just start to realize, like how insidious it is
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: that it's like there are still people walking around going, oh, well,
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: you're so smart, you can't be disabled, or you're so
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: pretty you can't be disabled, or whatever it may be.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: And it's like what are we doing? Like why are
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: we not just believing people when they say that they're
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: struggling with something? Why do we need to take time
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: to like invalidate it for our own comfort because it
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: challenges our understanding of what like disability maybe? Um, And
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: that I think has been one of the most I
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: think enlightening things about this work that I do is
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: how much time I have to take, like when I'm
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: speaking or doing panels, to just unpack this idea that
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: it's like everybody's experience is the same. It's like, no,
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: we're all different, so like let's start there and start
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: like meeting each other in the middle. Um. But yeah,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: I get I get really heated up about able is
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: M because it's profoundly affected me in many many ways. Yeah,
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: I know it asked for a lot of people. One
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: of the episodes my friends bring up the most with me,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: which is very sweet that they actually listened to the show.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: I don't expect them too, but is an episode that
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: we did about you know, women, I can't be autistic
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: and here's why, like it's under diagnosed and all this stuff,
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: and so many of them were like, oh my, I
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: just never knew that, And there you know, thirty year
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: old women and finding relief in that. And then also
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: we've done a lot of episodes about how doctors dismiss women,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: sometimes leading to consequences like death when we're telling you like, no,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: there's something wrong. I know there's something wrong, and they're
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: like you're good. Um. And then also just in America,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: we've been talking about this a lot too, the whole
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: idea that you shouldn't complain, you should be productive, you
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: should fit in. I think it's been really damaging h
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: for a lot of people. Yeah, I mean it's definitely
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: that conversation of women have to prove their worth, a
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: fat people have to prove their worth in general, and
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: so therefore showing weakness, which is not a weakness, which
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: is saying this is something I might struggle with, is
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: showing weakness, and therefore you are less value. That's been
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: a whole conversation that's been inundated in US, especially as
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: again people who are identify as women have to show
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: marginalized people in general have to show that they are
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: of value because you know, white men apparently on its own,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: are valued. Yeah. Well, and burnout culture too is such
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: a huge part I think, especially of like the ner
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: divergence story, because so many nerdivergent people like they thrive
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: on burnout until burnout becomes untenable. It's like, well, if
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: I need to feel pressure to get anything done, if
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: I need to, you know, feel this sense of mediacy
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: to get anything done, how do you do that? You
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: do that by over extending yourself, by overbooking yourself, by
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: constantly living in like a stress state for as long
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: as you possibly can. But at some point, like you
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: gotta crash, You've gotta crash. And and the more the
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: longer that you go on, you know, especially like for
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: late diagnosis people, like some people like me, I got
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: all the way, I got two master's degrees before that
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: burnout hit. But then that burnout hit and I was like,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: I'm not okay, and I was not okay for a
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: long time. And it's and it's just like that culture
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: of like do more, be productive, do more, be productive,
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: prove your worth, prove your worth over and over and over.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: And then in conversation with and I, and I can
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: only function when I'm living in that stressed out state, like, oh,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: it gets dangerous. It gets so dangerous so quickly. And
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: I wish we'd talked more about that too. It's just
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: like how the culture of like capitalistic burnout, like just
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: is so dangerous for neuro divergent people to be able
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: to thrive in. Okay, I'm going to just stop calling
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: me out, thank you very much doing on now we've
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: talked about that, because I do feel like there's a
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: lot of morality attached to productivity in our country. And
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: for me, like when I get stressed, I hang on
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: to work like a life rafts and it's not healthy.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: But I'm like, I can distract myself with this thing
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: and I don't have to think about all of this
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: other stuff that I'm struggling with. And it's definitely been
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: during the pandemic, it's really become clear to me how
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: much I rely on distracting myself and avoiding other things
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: through work. Yeah, it's not good. It's not good. It's
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: not good. It's not great, it's not grow. Can we
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: go back to something else you mentioned, which we've discussed
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: on this podcast to you, which is kink and embracing
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: kink and how that has been for you, how that
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: kind of intersects with a d h D all of
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: that good stuff. Yeah, So, okay, I want to be
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: I was. I would like to say this, I'm a
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: big fan of kink, but I'm absolutely not one of
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: those like come join my club people. I'm just like
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: kink as a tool in your intimacy toolbox. If if
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: it's for you, great, If it's not, also totally cool,
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: we can still be friends. That's totally fine. And also,
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: I think one of the things that has been really
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: interesting for me is is sort of like unpacking what
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: kink means to a lot of people, because I think
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: people here kink and they immediately go like, whip's changed
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: in dungeon parties, and it's like, great if that, if
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: that's your bag, awesome, but that's not it's not necessarily
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: if for everybody. Um But so sort of like circling
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: back to the actual point I was gonna make. Um. So,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: one of the big things with a d h D
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: is that our brains are constantly seeking sensory input. Right.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: It's like once the dopamine, once the serotonin kind of
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: wears off, like your brain is like onto the next thing.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: And and the period of time that that takes, you know,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: can be like I'm hyper focused on my emails, or
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: it can be I'm spending six months watching every episode
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: of Doctor Who. It really depends. And there's not a
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: really good way to like harness the power of your
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: A d h D. As much as a lot of
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: life coaches want to tell you on the internet, it's
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: it's challenging, right, Um. But so when you start talking
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: about like sex and intimacy and that kind of stuff, Um,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: what a lot of people find is that that sort
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: of sensory seeking like input behavior is still happening, right.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: And so as a sex educator, one of the things
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: that I'm a big sort of proponent of is the
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: fact that kink is at its foundation two different things
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: at the same time. It is it is sensory input,
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: and it is power dynamic. And you can have A
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: and not be. You can have B and not A,
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: you can have both, you can have neither. Whatever is
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: your bag, um, But a lot of times that sort
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: of the structure of a power dynamic of some kind,
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: whether it be like all the time in the bedroom,
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: like whatever, there's a lot of different options. Um. But
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: in conversation with that additional sensory input of you know,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: like I'll say, like the riding crop, the flogger, the blindfold,
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: the ear plugs, like whatever you personally maybe using, um,
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: those things can really combine to provide a really satisfying
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: and much more like intimately satisfying experience for a neurodivergent person. UM.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: And I think it's it's it's hard to talk about
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: kink a lot of times because there's such a stigma
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: attached to it. It's like, oh, now I gotta go
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: by by like all leather outfit and get down of
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: the dungeon. But it's like, no, it's like when we
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: when we talk about kink, we're literally talking about you know,
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: anything as simple as just a blindfold or you know,
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: wearing headphones or something like that too. You know, the
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: more like aggressive like fifty shades of gray stuff that
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: you might be picturing fifty shades grayst trash just for
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: on the record. Um. But but there's but it's it's
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: really powerful and really valuable tool. UM. But again, when
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: we talk about king, when we talk about king safety,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: when we talk about negotiating boundaries, when we talk about
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: negotiating consent and all that stuff, A lot of those
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: conversations and the way that those things are taught in
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: kink and b D s M communities are again from
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: that neurotypical perspective of like, everybody's going to remember the
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: safe word, no problem. Nobody has time blindness, so there's
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: not going to be a problem in terms of like
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: how long do we do this scene for um, you know,
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: nobody has rejection sensitivity like that kind of stuff. Um.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: And So when I started speaking more specifically towards second
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: intimacy as somebody who who really found a place for
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: myself in the king community, and really I think sort
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: of sexually came into my own because of kink and
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: what kink does personally for me, that was another place
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: where I was like, Hey, we really need to have
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: a conversation about time blindness. We really need to have
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: a conversation about managing you know, a submissive partner as
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: a neurodiver and dom and vice versa. UM. And so
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: I've had really the honor of being able to go
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: to a lot of like SKINK and b D s
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: M specific conventions and talk about that and talk about like, okay,
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: what like neurodivergent doms, neurodivergent subs, like neurodivergent kike in general. Um,
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: And it's kind of become like my my like little
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: passionate area of expertise because I just I really care
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: about it. I really care about the king community. I
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: really care about people playing safely and being educated safely
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: and that kind of stuff. Um. But I think if
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: if you're if you don't have the lived experience of
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: knowing what it's like to struggle with memory and time
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: blindness and rejection sensitivity and all the different stuff that
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: comes like wrapped up in the A d h D package,
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: it can be really hard to speak to it, um
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: with any sort of efficacy. And so um, that's what
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: I do for my job now. As I talk about
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: sex and a d h D on the internet, my
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: mom loves it. My mom is thrilled. My mom's like,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: why are you like this? Well? My mom at first, Oh,
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: she's so mad, she's so mad. It's so funny, it's
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: so funny, my, Um. I grew up like in a
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: super conservative household where it was like masturbation was like
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: a terrible sin, and like you know, like sex is
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: like this like deeply shameful thing between a man and
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: a woman. And I was just like all right, cool
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: and then like I like rocked up and I was
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: like what's up. So a lot of a lot of
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: it too has been on learning that and unpacking about
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: like the religious shame and like I went to Catholic
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: school my whole life, Like it was the first time
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: I didn't go to Catholic school was in graduate school,
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: like I went to a Catholic university. So I was like,
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: there's a lot there's a lot of them. Know, I'm
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: with you, We've we've talked about this before. My parents
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: are also in that whilhouse. Like you're talking about women's issues,
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: you're one of them. Cool, um, which is funny because
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: I'm like, well now we're talking about feminism, and okay,
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna explain this anymore. But I love that.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: I think as we've talked to so many people in
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: the king Commune, pity and about what they do. One
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: of the big things that always stood out to me
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: and I love and I'm like, how do we translate
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: this to people who may not understand kink at all
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: or have never really thought about being a part of
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: this community or understanding what it is at its core.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: But the communication that is a beautiful point in the
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: entirety of them, Like that in itself is enticing. Yeah. Absolutely,
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: And I think even like I borrow a lot from
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: the King community when I'm educating about like a d
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: h D. Like a big thing in the King community
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: is dropped, like the the experience of just like you know,
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: sub drop down, drop whatever. But drop just happens in
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: life to everybody, um but you when you explain drop,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Okay, So basically drop is I'm I'm
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: I'm better with a diagram, but I'm going to use
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: my words to the best of my ability. But so basically,
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: in your brain there is a baseline amount of like
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: dopamine and serotonin and that kind of stuff. Um. And
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: as you partake in an activity, whether or not it
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: be like a ink will say, a kink scene, or
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: going to your friend's birthday party that you've been looking
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: forward to for a really long time, there's really no
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: discernible difference in your brain, but you start sort of
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: burning through those like happy time chemicals right, um. And
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: so then at some point you run out of those chemicals. Right,
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: you're feeling good, you're feeling good, you're having a great time,
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and then I'll oh, no, I'm kind
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: of we're out of that dope. I mean, we're out
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: of that serotonine. And that's where drop happens, right. And
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: so drop is like that moment where your brain says, no,
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: I need time to sort of replenish these chemicals and
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: sort of like get back up to that baseline. Um.
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: And that happens a lot in kink because you're you know,
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: you're experiencing these very like heightened emotions and you're like
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: making extra dopamine while like the scene is happening, and
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: then boop, it's gone. Um. But that happens a lot
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: just in life. You know. It's like an infer neurodeveraging people.
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: It can be as simple as like I've been looking
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: forward to going to this concert, I've been looking forward
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: to this birthday party or whatever. Um. But then that
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: drop happens, and when you already naturally have a lower
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: level of dopamine and sara a tone in whether because
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: of depression or a d h D or you know,
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: whatever may be going on in your brain that can
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: feel profoundly significant. And you can have these periods of
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: like depression and anxiety after something that's like I should
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: be having a good time. I should be having a
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: great time. Like why you know, like why do I
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: feel like crap after this amazing thing happens? And it's
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: like because Drop. And in the kick community, it's it's
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: a very frequent discussion. We're all like, oh, yeah, it's Drop.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: But every time I bring up Drop in like a
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: non Kink audience, people's brains explode and they go what
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: like like what I was like, yeah, as well, it's
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: like a whole thing. It's like a whole science thing
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: that happens. I'm having a moment because I happened to
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: me very quickly. I'm like I'm done, I'm dead. I
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: gotta go yeah. And and and it can be like
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: one of those things where, especially again like in conversation
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: with like the other sort of component parts, because it's
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: all interconnected, it's all intertwined. But it's like, you know,
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: you have that drop moment. But then you also have
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: rejection sensitivity issues, so you're like less likely to go
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: to a wartner for comfort, You're less likely to reach out.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: You're going to introvert inside yourself and you know, or
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: you are just deeply introverted and then going to go
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: talk to somebody about it. Like that's more spoons and
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: more exhaustion, and so the issue can compound in a way.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: But it's like if you're aware of it, you go, Okay,
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: drop is happening, Like I need to take care of myself.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: I need to make sure that you know, I'm like
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: reached out to a friend or having a friend reach
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: out to me or like whatever it may be. Um,
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: you can really start to set yourself up for success.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: Um in in in a lot of ways that have
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with whips and chains, like nothing at all, um,
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: But I really think there's just so much to be
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: learned from the king community, like in stuff like that,
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: just in like the casual like conversations we have, but
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: also like you were saying, just like with consent and
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: negotiation and setting boundaries and unapologetically being like, hey, these
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: are my boundaries, these are my needs, like meet them
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: or don't, but like, they are valid and I will
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: not be changing them in order to, you know, make
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: you more comfortable. Um. I think that there's a lot
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: of hour there, especially for a group of people who
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: oftentimes are told that we're weird or broken, or we're
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: too much or you know, we're doing it wrong or
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: we're doing it poorly or whatever, and saying like, no,
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: this is how I'm going to do my laundry, this
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: is how I'm gonna do my dishes, this is what
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: I'm going to ask for during intimacy, and I need
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: that from you. If you can't meet those needs, then
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: we need to have a much larger conversation because your
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: needs are valid. Your needs are valid, and I will
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: die on that hill. I love it. Yeah. Yeah, Like
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: that's been my favorite thing about my takeaway from the
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: king community, and something that I wish everybody did is
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: that we should start from like not an assumption of
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: this is what sex looks like, this is what it
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: should be. We should start from here's what I want.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: What do you want? Can we meet there? Ah? So good? Um,
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: it is good. Also, we have to go to therapy
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: after this one. Let's go Okay, I have therapy in
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: an hour. I usually do. I always manage she scheduled
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: podcast interviews either right before right after therapy, and my
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: therapist knows, like she's like, oh, do you have a
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: good interview today? I was like, yeah, it was great,
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: or like I'll be like just cry, like really complain
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: about us in therapy. I'm gonna say such nice things
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: about you. I was like already thinking about I'm like, oh,
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited to tell my therapist how good this? Yes? Um, okay,
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: So just a quick couple of wrap up things before
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: we end. So you were on the story Time podcast
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: about orgies. Correct? I maybe maybe I was. Maybe that
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: was me? No, I actually was. Apparently I was one
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: of their only guests that was like not like I
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: was just like, yeah, it's me. I'm Katiosaurus. What's up?
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: Like I just was like very open uppairly. That was
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: like weird, but I was like all right, cool, But yes,
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: that was me talking about organizing orgy specifically, which I'm
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: very up. Yeah. I spent like four summers professionally organizing
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: orgies because my background is in stage management and like
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: event planning. Um, And what I realized is that planning
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: and orgy is fundamentally no different than putting on a
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: production of Hamlet, except like weirder happens in the in
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: the fifth act, and so I was like, okay, cool.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: So it was like one of those weird things where
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: I was working at a Shakespeare festival that shall go nameless, um,
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: and there was like a very sex positive sort of
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: like scene in that town. Um. And so I wound
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: up organizing orgies for rich people for like for summer. Wow,
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: it's weird. They brought you back every summer. I love
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: it they did. It was actually really funny. It was
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: like I would get would starting to get emails because
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: the festival ran like in like May, June, July, like
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: like summertime. I would start getting emails in like January
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: February be like, hey, we're just kind of wondering if
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: you were going to be like back this year, because
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: if you're looking to, you know, like work with you.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: And I'd be like, yeah, I'm coming back, and I'll
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: be like great, all right. It's such a weird trivia effect.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. Uh. Something else, um.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: Samantha slowly trying to get me into TikTok we're not
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: on TikTok. She wants me to do all my Luke
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: Skywalker outfits. Okay, let's clanify something. I do want you
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: to do all of this, But it's more of like, hey,
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: we need to get on TikTok. Like if I get on,
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: it's only gonna Skywalter content. Yeah whatever, neither here nor there.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: But you are very big on TikTok. However, you're not
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: verified yet, right, I'm I'm not do you have plans
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: for like celebration if you get verified, They're never going
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: to verify me. Is I've applied fourteen times for verification.
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: I have been on the Today Show. I've been on
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: The Doctors. I've been in Cosmo, I've been in the
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: New York Times, I Better g Q, I've been I've
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: been in every like, I've been in a lot of things.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: And like, I'm not saying that to too my own horn.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: I'm saying that to contextualize the fact that TikTok hates kink.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: TikTok just hates sex and sex ed and is like
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: and we all have like there's like a secret code,
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: like we all have to like speak in secret code
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: to eat even like talk like about sex a lot
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: of the time, and so I'm I think I'm the
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: largest female a d h D content creator. There's one
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: person who was more like specifically a d h D,
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: but he he is male. Um, but I'm the largest
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: like girl basically, but they won't verify me because I
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: talk about sex and intimacy and kink and like that
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: kind of thing. Um. And so it's just like really frustrating,
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: um because like it's it's become like an ongoing joke
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: with my followers too, because it's just like like I
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: was on the Today Show talking specifically about like a
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: d h D and sex, like this is what I'm
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: doing for my career, and tik taks like m but
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: we don't like it though, so um. But yeah, so
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: I was just like whatever. So like now at this point,
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: I'm just like I'm moving to YouTube honestly. UM. I'm
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: starting to do more like longer form content on YouTube. Um. Also,
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: I don't actually know if I'm supposed to say this
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: yet or not, but it's fine. I'll just say Leroy Jenkins. Um,
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: we actually just had a web series green Lets that
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: We're where it's actually talking all the way back about
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: the start of the podcast, UM, where where we're just
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: gonna be talking about like different um careers and different
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: jobs and different like interesting hobbies UM. And like it's
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: sort of like a cross between like dirty jobs and
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: the try guys. Um. It's kind of what it's going
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: to be about. That just got green lights. Were really
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: excited about that. But yeah, it's TikTok and that's okay,
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: Well no, because I just keep saying it. No. When
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: it comes to TikTok, they are very odd when it
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: comes to what they ban, who they ban, who they verify,
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: who they celebrate, and typically it's all about popularity. And
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: when I say popularity, it's like literally having all of
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: your followers email TikTok and and not only just go
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: viral and having millions and millions and millions of views,
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: which I'm pretty sure you already have, but having that
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: and then having people harassed TikTok till the point that
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: you do it. Those content creators get that like that way.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: That's what I've seen like people when especially because there
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: are sides based on what you view. It's it's odd
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: how they set this up and the fact that they
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: banned mostly they banned videos and content, and I've seen
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: it more so with people who are calling out like
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: racist and controversial statements, very like controversial ideas based on uh,
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: you know, anti LGBTQ. Like those people are still have
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: their stuff up. I actually went and tried to report
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: a video where he's celebrating a guy who is a
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: sex offender, like he got released as a rap rapist,
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: and they were like, oh, this is hilarious and they're
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: like a good job, get out of jail or whatever,
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: and then everybody was recorded that. I was like, this
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: is awful. Nope, they told me there was no violation.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: I was like how, he literally says, I Am alright,
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: Like it's odd because they really do set it up
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: that people control what content is on there and it's
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: a cordon dude who gets the most the loudest, and
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: it seems it's very one sided. Yeah. I got banned
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: from TikTok for weekends about a year ago. Um, and
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: my I got really lucky because my community did exactly
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: that they they they like protested. It was like a
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: big deal when I got banned, which I wasn't expecting.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: I didn't expect people to care like at all. Um
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: and I woke up and somebody had written a protest
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: ce shanty about my being banned, and that was like,
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: honestly one of the greatest things that like, it's still
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: my ringtones to this day. Um yeahk TikTok itself, like
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: the the entity TikTok is. I fight with TikTok all
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: the time. But I think the thing that I'm most
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: grateful for it, and I think the thing that really
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: did change my life is that TikTok allowed me to
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: find a community like the people on TikTok, the individual
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: users on TikTok, they are extraordinary people, like and there
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: are people who will who will go to bat for
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: me and say like, hey, this isn't fair, and they
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: constantly tagging TikTok and be like why isn't she verified yet?
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: You know that kind of stuff, um and so yeah.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: So it's just been like this really interesting dichotomy of
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: like constantly having to fight to get my message out
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: there and be seen and heard, like I've been suppressed
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: to hell for the past like two weeks or so, um,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: but at the same time getting emails and messages from
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: people saying thank you for what you do. You know,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: like this is so important, Like I didn't know this,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: Like you taught me something about my daughter or my
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: partner or my son or whatever, and like that's what
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: means the world to me. You know. It's like I
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: don't care if TikTok doesn't like me. I care about
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: the literally millions of people who have come to my
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: content to say like and hopefully learned something. So well, Kate,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here. It has been
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: a delight. You are doing so many amazing things, and
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: you're in Atlanta, so we should hang sometimes we should. Yeah,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: can we hang out there? Let's totally hang out. But
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: in the meantime, where can all the good listeners find you? Oh,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: good listeners? You can find me in the following places. Um,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: As Annie so lovely said, I'm Kate, um I go
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: by Katie source on all the social media's. Um you
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: can find me on TikTok, on YouTube, on Instagram, on Twitter,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: on Twitch. I'm a Twitch partner now, which is very fancy. Um.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: I also have a podcast, like I said, it's called
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: Katie and Eric's Infinite Quest in a d h D Adventure.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: We're available wherever you listen to podcasts. Um and if
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: you want to learn more about me or what I do, UM,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: you can go to Katie Saurus dot com. UM. And
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: if you would like the spicy content that I also do,
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: you can go to mostly pans dot com and that's
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: where that content is. So and also you probably saw
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: from the title, listeners, but it's Kate with the C
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: yes C A T I E O s A you
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: are us. I had to look at my own neonce
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: sign look that I thought you would trying to show us.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: It was like if it's a you or you A,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it's I get that worked out. Well.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much again for being here, Listeners, Keep
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: an eye out for those the pie pilots, more than
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: one pilot. It's coming out. We're gonna be going to
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: the Penguin Magic Theater in Columbus, Ohio and learning how
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: to do become magicians in a week. I'm so scared.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be amazing. I'm so excited. Projects it's Ohio
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: known from magicians anyway. Keep going on that plays is
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: famous anyway, all right. Also, if you would like to
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: contact us, you can or emails stuff media mom stuff
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: at I heeart mea dot com. You can find us
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: on Twitter, at mom to podcast or Instagram and stuff
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: I never told you. Thanks as always to you are
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: super producer Christina, She's a magician, for sure she is.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: And thanks to you for listening. Stuff Whender told the
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: protection of I Heart Radio for more podcast in my
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: Heart Radio, but at the heart radio app Apple Podcast.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: Where have you listened to your favorite shows?