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The Bridgewater Triangle is America's Weirdest Paranormal Hotspot · Aliens? Yes! But Maybe No | UFOs, UAPs & Alien Mysteries

• 0:03
  Josh: Aliens.
• 0:04
  Travis: Aliens.
• 0:07
  Josh: Yes.
• 0:09
  Travis: But maybe no.
• 0:10
  Travis: Heidi oh, alienos.
• 0:21
  Travis: There it is.
• 0:22
  Travis: Bringing it back, Josh.
• 0:23
  Travis: Welcome to the show, Aliens Yes, but maybe no with Josh and Travis.
• 0:27
  Travis: I'm Travis.
• 0:28
  Travis: I'm Josh.
• 0:29
  Travis: And this is anotherworldly podcast as ambiguous as our title.
• 0:33
  Josh: We haven't recorded in a while.
• 0:35
  Travis: I know we say that every recording, but I think it might be actually true this time.
• 0:40
  Travis: Yeah.
• 0:41
  Travis: We've had more distance between us, Josh, and that sucks.
• 0:44
  Travis: Yeah, it's true.
• 0:45
  Travis: Oh man.
• 0:46
  Travis: Hopefully our chemistry's still as sparkling and sharp as it's ever been.
• 0:51
  Josh: We did have a good amount of time to go over this topic.
• 0:55
  Travis: Yeah.
• 0:55
  Travis: I went deep.
• 0:56
  Travis: Did you?
• 0:57
  Josh: Oh, yeah.
• 0:57
  Travis: I went full force.
• 0:58
  Travis: You went hard.
• 0:59
  Josh: Mm-hmm.
• 1:00
  Travis: Good.
• 1:00
  Travis: Love a good triangle story.
• 1:01
  Josh: Yeah.
• 1:02
  Josh: I was just trying to remember what we talked about last.
• 1:04
  Josh: It was the Westall.
• 1:06
  Travis: Okay.
• 1:06
  Travis: I was thinking Bigfoot.
• 1:08
  Josh: It was Westall.
• 1:09
  Josh: I love that.
• 1:10
  Josh: Just the people, the story.
• 1:12
  Travis: I said it lined up with Roswell.
• 1:13
  Travis: I said aerial school because it lined up almost perfectly for me.
• 1:17
  Travis: Not a perfect one-for-one, but the comparison was so close.
• 1:22
  Josh: I think if there was Men in Black training, it went by the playbook.
• 1:27
  Josh: Yeah.
• 1:27
  Josh: We still need more entries for our Battle Cryptids episode.
• 1:30
  Josh: Send those right now.
• 1:32
  Josh: While you're listening, you can just go to fan mail.
• 1:34
  Josh: It's in our show notes and send us a text.
• 1:37
  Travis: Send us your best.
• 1:38
  Josh: Yeah.
• 1:38
  Josh: We want the cream and the crop.
• 1:40
  Travis: Your most fierce.
• 1:40
  Travis: You're scariest.
• 1:42
  Josh: Or if they aren't that fierce, like leprechauns, pretty sure leprechauns can be pretty brutal.
• 1:47
  Travis: Oh man, have you not seen leprechaun?
• 1:50
  Josh: No.
• 1:50
  Travis: Or leprechaun in space?
• 1:52
  Travis: No.
• 1:53
  Travis: Or leprechaun in the hood?
• 1:55
  Travis: Looking at them, they're not the elite, but they could be.
• 1:58
  Travis: I don't know.
• 1:59
  Travis: They're fierce little guys, especially when it comes to their gold.
• 2:03
  Travis: But yeah, send it to us.
• 2:04
  Travis: Is the leprechaun a cryptid?
• 2:05
  Travis: Would we count that as a cryptid?
• 2:07
  Travis: I don't know.
• 2:07
  Travis: Everything's a cryptid.
• 2:08
  Travis: Sure, submit it.
• 2:10
  Travis: Whatever.
• 2:10
  Travis: It's your show, folks.
• 2:12
  Travis: We're just here to direct traffic.
• 2:14
  Josh: Yeah.
• 2:15
  Josh: But yeah, this episode we are talking about the Bridgewater Triangle.
• 2:18
  Josh: It's our first triangle.
• 2:20
  Josh: We've brought up triangles before.
• 2:22
  Travis: They're ever present.
• 2:23
  Travis: You can't escape them.
• 2:24
  Travis: It's the most perfect shape.
• 2:25
  Josh: It it really is.
• 2:26
  Josh: Yeah.
• 2:27
  Josh: So should we just get into this?
• 2:28
  Josh: Yeah.
• 2:29
  Josh: Yeah.
• 2:29
  Josh: What are we waiting for, Josh?
• 2:31
  Josh: I don't know.
• 2:32
  Josh: What are we waiting for?
• 2:34
  Josh: Ugh.
• 2:34
  Josh: All right.
• 2:35
  Josh: There is a place in southeastern Massachusetts where every kind of paranormal story overlaps.
• 2:41
  Josh: People have reported glowing UFOs hovering over power lines, massive birds that shouldn't exist, shadow humanoids moving through the trees, small creatures that try to lure people deeper into a swamp.
• 2:52
  Josh: Drivers claim they've lost miles of highway without realizing it.
• 2:56
  Josh: Others say they've encountered ghosts on back roads that vanish into thin air.
• 3:00
  Josh: All of this is said to happen within a region known as the Bridgewater Triangle.
• 3:05
  Josh: It's a weird place.
• 3:08
  Josh: Yeah, classic.
• 3:09
  Josh: So the name Bridgewater Triangle was introduced by cryptozoologist Lauren Coleman in his 1983 publication, Mysterious America.
• 3:19
  Josh: Heard of him?
• 3:20
  Josh: I had not.
• 3:21
  Josh: No, I haven't.
• 3:22
  Travis: Actually, I probably should have talked to my wife about this because she was really into cryptozoology and studied at the University of Utah with a guy who has written a couple of cryptozoology books.
• 3:34
  Travis: Let's see if I can find them.
• 3:36
  Travis: They're in this room somewhere.
• 3:37
  Josh: Yeah.
• 3:38
  Josh: So drawing inspiration from the Bermuda Triangle, his initial focus was on Bridgewater, East Bridgewater, and West Bridgewater.
• 3:45
  Josh: Was later expanded to cover a much broader area defined by Abington, Rehoboth, and Freetown.
• 3:52
  Josh: At the center is the Hawkamack Swamp, the largest freshwater swamp in Massachusetts.
• 3:57
  Josh: So long before modern reports of UFOs encrypted, the land was deeply important to indigenous people of the region, including the Wampanoag and the neighboring Algonquin speaking groups.
• 4:08
  Josh: Sadly, the lore of the region is rooted in their tragedies.
• 4:13
  Travis: Yeah, it is a tragic story.
• 4:15
  Travis: There are a couple things that we'll dig into about that.
• 4:19
  Travis: I've got some personal thoughts.
• 4:21
  Travis: I did, however, side note like how one of your readings you hawked during Hawkamok.
• 4:28
  Josh: Yeah.
• 4:29
  Josh: I was trying to do different takes and I had a big hawk.
• 4:33
  Travis: Like Yeah, I was like listening in 40X.
• 4:36
  Travis: So we're gonna talk a little bit about this area and its heavy history.
• 4:40
  Travis: And the tragedy.
• 4:42
  Travis: And the tragedy.
• 4:43
  Travis: To kick that off, we'll talk about King Philip's War.
• 4:45
  Travis: So King Philip's War took place from 1675 to 1676.
• 4:50
  Travis: The conflict grew from colonial expansion, land loss, political pressure, economic control, and deteriorating relations between English colonies and indigenous nations.
• 5:00
  Travis: The Indigenous Alliance was led primarily by the Wampanoag leader, Medicom, whom the English called King Philip.
• 5:07
  Travis: So already they're like trying to erase who this guy is.
• 5:10
  Travis: Right.
• 5:10
  Travis: They're trying to change his name.
• 5:12
  Travis: Yep.
• 5:12
  Travis: They're like, I don't like that.
• 5:14
  Travis: We're gonna call you King King Philip.
• 5:16
  Josh: Yeah.
• 5:17
  Travis: The war became one of the deadliest conflicts in American history relative to the population involved.
• 5:21
  Travis: I think that was one of the wildest things about this reading.
• 5:24
  Travis: Same with meme.
• 5:25
  Travis: Was how many people were lost during this in relation to the actual population at the time?
• 5:32
  Travis: That was huge.
• 5:33
  Travis: That was like a devastating loss.
• 5:35
  Josh: Yeah, it was 600 to more recently, they think around maybe 2,500 colonials were killed during this war, but there was only 50,000 people in that territory.
• 5:47
  Josh: So that's potentially 10%.
• 5:49
  Josh: And then 40% of the natives were killed.
• 5:53
  Josh: Yeah.
• 5:53
  Josh: It's fucking bullshit.
• 5:55
  Josh: Yeah.
• 5:55
  Travis: Per capita, it was the bloodiest war in US history.
• 6:00
  Travis: Bullshit.
• 6:01
  Travis: So Medicom was killed near Mount Hope in 1676.
• 6:04
  Travis: His body was mutilated, his head displayed in Plymouth, and his wife and son sold into slavery.
• 6:09
  Travis: That's so fucked up.
• 6:11
  Travis: Yeah, they put his head on a spike and it was there for 20 years as a warning.
• 6:17
  Travis: Man.
• 6:17
  Travis: That makes me sick.
• 6:19
  Travis: Legend also tells of a missing wampum belt linked to Metacom.
• 6:22
  Travis: After his death, his captain, Anawan, retreated into the Triangle's forest, allegedly carrying a sacred item, Medicom's Wampum Belt, which is a symbol of authority and history.
• 6:32
  Travis: According to historical accounts, Medicom's war captain, Anawan, and a small group of followers took refuge among a cluster of boulders and ledges in what is now Rehoboth.
• 6:41
  Travis: The location offered a natural defensive position, high ground, narrow approaches, and invisibility over surrounding terrain.
• 6:48
  Travis: It was here in August 1676 that colonial forces tracked him down and surrounded the rock.
• 6:54
  Travis: When Anawan eventually surrendered near what's now called Annawan Rock, he handed over his belongings, but the belt vanished.
• 7:01
  Travis: Stories vary on its fate.
• 7:02
  Travis: Some say it was stolen, others that it was hidden by Anawan's followers to keep it from colonial forces, or simply lost in the chaos.
• 7:09
  Travis: Visitors to Anwan Rock often describe an atmosphere that feels unusually heavy or still.
• 7:14
  Travis: People report hearing distant drumming, voices carried on the wind, or the crackle of unseen fires.
• 7:20
  Travis: Some claim to see faint glows among the rocks at night, like campfires that give off little heat.
• 7:25
  Travis: Others describe the sensation of being watched or the feeling that they have stepped into a moment that hasn't fully passed.
• 7:31
  Travis: That has got to be a really weird feeling.
• 7:34
  Travis: Yeah.
• 7:35
  Travis: To experience time in a different way.
• 7:37
  Travis: We've talked about this with other areas.
• 7:39
  Travis: Yeah, the loss of time.
• 7:41
  Travis: Yeah, loss of time, or just like time moving differently than what you just left.
• 7:47
  Travis: That's gotta be like a really sickening, like nausea feeling.
• 7:51
  Travis: That coupled with like being out in the woods and then that feeling you get when you're being watched, which I've felt a lot of times out in the woods.
• 7:59
  Josh: Mm-hmm.
• 8:00
  Travis: It's always really eerie.
• 8:02
  Josh: It's me.
• 8:02
  Josh: I'm watching you.
• 8:04
  Travis: Oh okay.
• 8:06
  Josh: Yeah, no, you're not you're not crazy.
• 8:07
  Josh: Oh, well, that's that that gives me hope.
• 8:10
  Josh: Yeah.
• 8:10
  Josh: Sometimes I dress up.
• 8:12
  Josh: Yeah, it makes me wonder because a lot of these triangles have weird things.
• 8:17
  Josh: I mean, you pull out a compass and it just spins, which makes you think that there's maybe electromagnetic interference and stuff.
• 8:25
  Josh: And I imagine with enough electromagnetic interference, that could change something with time.
• 8:32
  Josh: I don't know.
• 8:33
  Josh: It does is magnets have to do with gravity.
• 8:35
  Josh: I don't know what what magnets, what do they do?
• 8:37
  Josh: I how do they work?
• 8:38
  Travis: I don't know.
• 8:39
  Josh: Isn't that your favorite quote?
• 8:40
  Josh: Insane clan posse?
• 8:43
  Travis: Yes.
• 8:43
  Travis: It's great.
• 8:44
  Travis: Nobody knows.
• 8:45
  Travis: Water, air, fire, dirt, magnets.
• 8:48
  Travis: How do they work?
• 8:49
  Travis: I mean, inspiration comes when it comes, and that is just pure divine writing right there.
• 8:54
  Josh: I'm never gonna poo-poo curiosity.
• 8:56
  Travis: Now, these guys, they also paint their face like clowns.
• 8:59
  Josh: Mm-hmm.
• 9:00
  Travis: Man, real flair for the theatrics.
• 9:03
  Josh: So the Hokamok swamp covers roughly 16,000 to 17,000 acres.
• 9:09
  Josh: Archaeological evidence documents thousands of years of human activity in and around it.
• 9:14
  Josh: It contains dense vegetation, unstable ground, fog, waterways, insects, hidden wildlife, and limited sightlines.
• 9:21
  Josh: Sound and distance can be really difficult to judge.
• 9:24
  Josh: And the name Hakamak is Algonquin, meaning place where spirits dwell.
• 9:30
  Travis: Although with translations, you should take it with a grain of salt just because we just found out that a guy's name is actually King Philip and not Medicom.
• 9:40
  Travis: So Right.
• 9:42
  Josh: And the guys who named him King Philip were probably the ones that were translating.
• 9:46
  Travis: Yeah.
• 9:47
  Josh: Yeah.
• 9:47
  Josh: And they it's just whatever they wrote down.
• 9:49
  Josh: Yeah, and the Puritans dubbed the Hockamok Swamp Devil's Bowl because of the weird lights and sounds emerging from the swamp.
• 9:58
  Josh: So they knew something was up too.
• 10:00
  Travis: Yeah.
• 10:00
  Travis: I mean, the devil does a lot.
• 10:02
  Travis: There's a he's a busy fella.
• 10:04
  Travis: Yeah.
• 10:04
  Travis: And it's just like the scariest place you've ever seen.
• 10:07
  Travis: That's why it maybe to keep people out.
• 10:10
  Josh: Maybe.
• 10:10
  Josh: For the indigenous communities, the swamp was a place of fear, but it was also a place of resources and life.
• 10:19
  Josh: Some modern legends, including stories of small forest dwelling beings, are often linked to the Algonquin folklore, which we'll get into that a little bit later.
• 10:27
  Josh: Today, the swamp is often considered the geographical center of an unusually large collection of strange encounters.
• 10:34
  Josh: At the same time, its environment, vast, disorienting, and difficult to navigate, can easily transform ordinary sights and sounds into something very unsettling.
• 10:44
  Travis: Interesting.
• 10:44
  Travis: Well, I can't wait to get into these little guys.
• 10:47
  Travis: Excuse me?
• 10:48
  Travis: Don't turn this into something that it's not.
• 10:51
  Josh: You called me out on Bigfoot, and I'm doing the same.
• 10:55
  Travis: Well, I'm sorry for calling you out on Bigfoot, but yeah, I want to get into these little guys.
• 10:58
  Travis: Pretty bad.
• 10:59
  Travis: Pretty bad.
• 11:00
  Travis: It's like I would say, like an all-encompassing feeling.
• 11:04
  Travis: Wow.
• 11:04
  Travis: I just I just want to get in there.
• 11:06
  Travis: Just get right up in these little guys.
• 11:08
  Josh: Okay.
• 11:08
  Josh: Okay.
• 11:09
  Josh: Well, I'm not gonna shame you.
• 11:11
  Josh: I'm proud of you for speaking your mind and opening your heart to not just me, but the entire world.
• 11:16
  Travis: I'm interested in them and what they're up to.
• 11:18
  Travis: What are you talking about?
• 11:20
  Josh: That's what I'm talking about, man.
• 11:22
  Travis: Oh, you think it's a sex thing.
• 11:24
  Josh: What?
• 11:25
  Josh: No.
• 11:26
  Travis: Well, it was.
• 11:27
  Josh: Do it.
• 11:31
  Travis: Whew! Man, that's that's just good to say out loud.
• 11:35
  Travis: Yeah.
• 11:35
  Travis: All right.
• 11:36
  Travis: So let's talk a little bit about these monsters lurking in the swamp.
• 11:39
  Travis: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:40
  Travis: So around 1970, a police officer was reportedly conducting surveillance near the Hawkamuk swamp when something approached his patrol car from behind.
• 11:49
  Travis: Without warning, the rear of the cruiser lifted off the ground as if something powerful had grabbed the car and raised it into the air.
• 11:56
  Travis: Jeez.
• 11:56
  Travis: Yeah.
• 11:57
  Travis: Just imagine just like whatever you're doing as a cop, eating a donut, drinking a coffee, out in the middle of the woods, just doing cop stuff in your car, and suddenly the back of your car gets lifted up.
• 12:07
  Travis: That would be such a weird feeling.
• 12:09
  Travis: Uh-huh.
• 12:10
  Travis: And you couldn't see what it was?
• 12:11
  Travis: Yeah.
• 12:12
  Travis: The officer never got a clear look at what was responsible, but the incident was later connected to reports of a huge hairy creature roaming the swamp.
• 12:18
  Travis: Uh-oh, guess who's back?
• 12:20
  Travis: I think I know.
• 12:22
  Travis: Whatever lifted that cruiser was strong enough to move a police car and quiet enough to disappear without being seen.
• 12:28
  Travis: Other witnesses have also described a creature seven to nine feet tall with dark hair and broad shoulders that has a skunk-like odor and heavy footsteps.
• 12:39
  Travis: Also, movement on either two legs or all four.
• 12:44
  Travis: Sounds like a bear to me, though.
• 12:45
  Travis: Well, bears do that.
• 12:47
  Josh: That's that's one of the things.
• 12:48
  Josh: But yeah, Bigfoot is a huge cryptid in this area.
• 12:51
  Josh: Yeah, this is a Sasquatch.
• 12:53
  Travis: Yeah.
• 12:53
  Travis: Yeah.
• 12:53
  Travis: Encounter two, the giant bird.
• 12:56
  Travis: In 1971, Norton Police Sergeant Thomas Downey was driving near Bird Hill.
• 13:01
  Travis: Love it.
• 13:02
  Travis: In Mansfield when he encountered an enormous bird standing beside the road.
• 13:06
  Travis: As Downey approached, the creature spread its wings.
• 13:10
  Josh: Do you think the birds came because it was named Bird Hill?
• 13:13
  Travis: Because it was called Bird Hill, exactly.
• 13:15
  Travis: Exactly.
• 13:16
  Josh: That's what I was thinking.
• 13:18
  Travis: Yeah.
• 13:18
  Travis: So this bird's wings reportedly stretched eight to twelve feet across and lifted it into the air and flew toward the Hawkama Swamp naturally.
• 13:25
  Travis: Downey maintained for years that this was no ordinary bird.
• 13:28
  Travis: Whatever he saw was larger than anything he could identify, and it had disappeared into one of the biggest wetlands in Massachusetts.
• 13:35
  Travis: Other witnesses have described wingspans of eight to twelve feet and bodies resembling prehistoric birds or thunderbirds of native lore, which are pretty cool.
• 13:44
  Josh: They are very cool.
• 13:45
  Josh: Yeah, and there's tons of stories like this.
• 13:47
  Josh: And most people just shrug it off until they find out or realize, like, oh, there's a lot of different stories.
• 13:53
  Josh: Owls.
• 13:54
  Josh: Cranes is the one for this one.
• 13:56
  Josh: People are thinking.
• 13:57
  Josh: But these people know birds.
• 13:59
  Josh: They live in the area, they know what a crane looks like.
• 14:02
  Travis: It's called Bird Hill.
• 14:03
  Travis: Yeah.
• 14:04
  Travis: They know birds.
• 14:05
  Travis: They know that birds are birds, and they named a hill after it.
• 14:08
  Travis: Yeah.
• 14:08
  Josh: You don't go to Bird Hill without knowing what a bird is.
• 14:11
  Travis: A thing or two about birds.
• 14:12
  Travis: Yeah, you don't go to Bird Hill to look at alligators.
• 14:14
  Travis: No, that's stupid.
• 14:16
  Travis: Yeah, that would be really dumb.
• 14:17
  Travis: Yeah.
• 14:18
  Travis: You go to Alligator Alley.
• 14:19
  Travis: Uh Encounter Three, we're gonna talk about a little guy called the Puckwudgy.
• 14:24
  Josh: Yeah.
• 14:25
  Travis: Stories of small beings.
• 14:26
  Travis: Here we go.
• 14:27
  Travis: Often called Puckwudge.
• 14:28
  Travis: It that okay, Josh.
• 14:30
  Travis: If I were to just say puckwudgy, would you imagine a giant hulking beast of a thing?
• 14:36
  Travis: Or a little like guy that maybe lives in the mud?
• 14:39
  Travis: A little guy.
• 14:40
  Travis: Yeah, a little mud guy.
• 14:41
  Travis: That's what I would picture.
• 14:42
  Josh: Yeah.
• 14:43
  Travis: Like a little swampy mud guy, puckwudgy.
• 14:45
  Travis: It sounds like it.
• 14:46
  Travis: It sounds like a Star Wars creature.
• 14:48
  Josh: Yeah, it sounds like spirited away.
• 14:49
  Josh: Oh, yeah.
• 14:50
  Travis: Like a little forest spirit type thing.
• 14:52
  Travis: Yeah.
• 14:52
  Travis: Yeah, a little puckwudgy.
• 14:54
  Travis: Uh so stories of small beings, often called puckwudgies, uh, appear in Algonquin folklore, where they are sometimes described as tricksters or dangerous spirits that lure victims into the swamp, never to be seen again.
• 15:05
  Josh: Spooky.
• 15:06
  Travis: One night in the 1990s, remember that?
• 15:09
  Travis: Remember the nineties?
• 15:10
  Travis: So well.
• 15:12
  Travis: Bel Russo was walking his dog in their neighborhood near the Hockamok swamp when he noticed a small figure beside the road standing beneath a lamppost.
• 15:21
  Travis: So he described this figure as three to four feet tall, potbellied, gray or unusual in appearance, possessing a face resembling a chipmunk.
• 15:32
  Travis: That's you, Travis.
• 15:33
  Travis: I know, like very cherubic.
• 15:36
  Travis: Then it began calling to him in a strange, high-pitched voice.
• 15:41
  Josh: Uh on Chukir.
• 15:43
  Travis: They'll interpret the words as we want you.
• 15:46
  Travis: Come here, which is sucked.
• 15:49
  Travis: That's creepy.
• 15:51
  Travis: It's so wild.
• 15:52
  Travis: Uh, the creature gestured for him to follow it into the swamp.
• 15:55
  Travis: His dog wanted nothing to do with it and wisely decided to trust the dog and hurry home.
• 16:00
  Josh: Yeah, he was very detailed in this story and accounting.
• 16:04
  Josh: Like his dog was a mix of what Rottweiler and German Shepherd was not easily afraid of things.
• 16:12
  Travis: He also had said that he was getting towards the end of his life and he was just basically like, fuck it.
• 16:18
  Travis: I just have I'm gonna tell the story.
• 16:21
  Travis: I don't really care what people think anymore, but for the longest time I didn't want to tell anybody because they they wouldn't understand what it was and how scared I was.
• 16:30
  Josh: Yeah.
• 16:30
  Josh: Uh when he heard the voice and looked and saw the being, he actually thought it was like a kid and he moved a little bit closer, didn't really think much of it, you know, because they mimic their shape shifters, basically, and they try to lure people in by or a little grays.
• 16:48
  Travis: Maybe they're a little grays.
• 16:49
  Travis: It could be.
• 16:50
  Travis: Yeah, anyway.
• 16:51
  Travis: Uh pretty funny until you actually picture what that would look like, like walking around out in the forest, just you and your dog enjoying life.
• 16:59
  Travis: I imagine like a Calvin and Hobbes type situation.
• 17:02
  Travis: You're just out there enjoying life and you know, making up stories in your head, and then something like this actually happens.
• 17:07
  Travis: Excuse me.
• 17:07
  Travis: It'd be terrifying.
• 17:08
  Travis: Yeah, and it didn't come closer to him.
• 17:10
  Travis: No, it wasn't like I'll beat you in the middle.
• 17:13
  Josh: It said, Who want you care?
• 17:15
  Josh: Who want you care?
• 17:17
  Travis: Yeah, over and over, over and over again.
• 17:19
  Travis: And he's like, Oh man, what was it saying?
• 17:22
  Travis: We want you come here.
• 17:25
  Travis: Ugh Oh man.
• 17:27
  Travis: Yeah, I don't like it.
• 17:28
  Travis: He's like, it was speaking English to me.
• 17:30
  Travis: It was trying to.
• 17:31
  Travis: Shapeshifters, though, man, they can't quite get it right.
• 17:34
  Travis: That's that uncanny valley business that they're always getting into.
• 17:37
  Travis: So other creatures that have also been reported are giant black snakes, large cats, wolves with large eyes.
• 17:43
  Travis: The snakes, I'm not, I wouldn't put a whole lot of credit towards because we have wild non-native species here all over the place.
• 17:52
  Travis: Like that's just part of human populations moving into an area and bringing what is familiar to them.
• 18:00
  Travis: Because horses, we introduced horses to North America.
• 18:03
  Josh: I think these are like weirdly giant, like from the movie Anaconda Giant.
• 18:08
  Josh: People have seen stuff like that.
• 18:09
  Josh: Oh, well, mythically large.
• 18:12
  Travis: Interesting.
• 18:13
  Josh: Yeah.
• 18:14
  Josh: And large cats, you know, I think they've seen mountain lions or things acting weird and then not being able to find it.
• 18:20
  Josh: I think there's also panthers, which is weird.
• 18:23
  Josh: You just don't I don't think of the United States and Panthers.
• 18:26
  Josh: I think panthers in more southern tropical places.
• 18:30
  Josh: Sure.
• 18:31
  Josh: Like the jungle book.
• 18:32
  Travis: Well, that's Asia and India, but there are panthers in South America, Central America, Florida.
• 18:38
  Travis: Why not here?
• 18:39
  Travis: 400 years ago.
• 18:41
  Josh: Yeah.
• 18:41
  Josh: Okay.
• 18:42
  Josh: So those are the monsters.
• 18:44
  Josh: This this triangle has everything.
• 18:46
  Josh: But now we're gonna get into the UFOs.
• 18:48
  Josh: The weird stuff.
• 18:50
  Travis: Yeah.
• 18:50
  Josh: So the Bridgewater Triangle is pretty much where American High Strangers started.
• 18:55
  Josh: One of the earliest UFO sightings ever recorded in the US happened in 1639.
• 19:01
  Travis: Oh, do tell.
• 19:03
  Josh: When Massachusetts governor John Winthrop wrote about a mysterious light in his log.
• 19:08
  Josh: What?
• 19:08
  Josh: Yeah.
• 19:09
  Josh: He there was a light in his log?
• 19:11
  Josh: He wrote about a mysterious light in his log.
• 19:14
  Josh: He wrote in his log about a mysterious light.
• 19:17
  Josh: Come on.
• 19:18
  Josh: Let me tell this let me tell the story.
• 19:20
  Josh: Like his diary.
• 19:21
  Josh: Yes.
• 19:22
  Josh: Like his journal.
• 19:23
  Josh: Mm-hmm.
• 19:24
  Josh: Yeah.
• 19:24
  Josh: So just 30 miles from the Bridgewater Triangle, right outside early Boston, a man named James Everall and two companions were rowing a boat at night on the muddy river near Boston.
• 19:35
  Josh: Muddy River is the name of the river, I imagine.
• 19:38
  Josh: Quite clear, actually.
• 19:40
  Travis: Oh wow.
• 19:40
  Travis: No, I'm just kidding, it's muddy.
• 19:42
  Travis: That's why it's called the Muddy River.
• 19:43
  Josh: They saw a great light in the sky that measured about three square yards when still.
• 19:48
  Josh: When it moved, it shrank into the shape of a pig, darting back and forth as swift as an arrow towards Charleston for two to three hours.
• 19:57
  Josh: After the light vanished, the men realized their boat had mysteriously moved a mile upstream against the tide with no memory of rowing.
• 20:05
  Josh: That'd be scary.
• 20:07
  Travis: Yeah, sure.
• 20:07
  Travis: I mean, if I saw something scary like that and I was in a boat, I would start rowing like mad and then not realize how furiously I was rowing, and I ended up in a place that I wasn't paying attention to because I was rowing so furious.
• 20:20
  Josh: If you saw a thing turn into a pig in the sky, yeah.
• 20:23
  Josh: Do you think this is where the pig's fly thing came into play?
• 20:27
  Travis: Of course it is.
• 20:28
  Travis: It has to be.
• 20:29
  Travis: It can't be traced to any other event.
• 20:31
  Josh: I mean, that's what I'm telling people from now on.
• 20:33
  Travis: Yeah.
• 20:34
  Travis: Um, just gathering my thoughts about a uh a pig.
• 20:38
  Travis: Yep.
• 20:38
  Travis: Uh pig shape darting around in the sky.
• 20:41
  Josh: Yeah, I don't know what that means.
• 20:42
  Josh: That's just a funny image.
• 20:43
  Josh: But another John Winthrop account, just five years later, on January 18th, 1644, he described another strange sighting.
• 20:51
  Josh: Three men in a boat saw two lights rise from the water shaped like a man, move towards the town cove, and then vanish.
• 20:59
  Josh: Settlers in the 1800s of southeastern Massachusetts frequently documented unexplained floating lights, they called spook lights, and fiery orbs hovering over the wetlands.
• 21:10
  Josh: There are reports throughout history just like these, and recently they cluster around Taunton and Rainham, the swamp power lines, and former Rainham Taunton Grand Park.
• 21:20
  Josh: But what witnesses describe is orange or white orbs above the trees, lights following transmission lines, silent triangular or polygonal craft, objects hovering and then accelerating rapidly, radio interference, confusion about time and distance.
• 21:37
  Josh: A more recent one, the 1979 baseball home plate UFO.
• 21:42
  Josh: So television journalist Jerry Lopez and Steve Brosia were traveling through the Bridgewater Triangle when they reportedly saw something enormous in the sky.
• 21:52
  Josh: It resembled a baseball home plate outlined by alternating red and white lights, and it appeared to be whiter than several commercial.
• 21:59
  Josh: Lines placed side by side.
• 22:01
  Josh: And the object made no obvious sound and didn't look or move like a conventional craft.
• 22:06
  Josh: Then it just mysteriously disappeared.
• 22:09
  Josh: It was gone.
• 22:09
  Josh: Yep.
• 22:11
  Josh: Gone.
• 22:12
  Josh: The big ones get me.
• 22:13
  Josh: That's scary to me.
• 22:14
  Josh: I don't like it.
• 22:15
  Travis: Well, this was shaped like a pentagon, like a home plate.
• 22:18
  Travis: But it is in the triangle.
• 22:19
  Travis: Everything's in the triangle.
• 22:21
  Travis: It is.
• 22:22
  Travis: It's the most perfect shape.
• 22:24
  Josh: But do the big ones not scare you?
• 22:26
  Travis: Like big crafts, big ships.
• 22:27
  Travis: Big ships, yeah.
• 22:28
  Travis: Yeah.
• 22:29
  Travis: I've never seen one.
• 22:30
  Travis: I imagine it would be terrifying though.
• 22:32
  Josh: Yeah.
• 22:32
  Travis: I imagine seeing something that big in the sky would make my stomach fall out of my butt.
• 22:38
  Josh: I would spontaneously combust.
• 22:40
  Travis: Oh shit.
• 22:41
  Josh: Wow.
• 22:41
  Travis: So that's I would overheat.
• 22:42
  Travis: That's pretty serious.
• 22:44
  Josh: I would start breathing really heavily.
• 22:45
  Travis: Is this like all big things or just a thing in the sky?
• 22:48
  Josh: Most most if things are too big.
• 22:50
  Travis: What about the ocean?
• 22:51
  Travis: The ocean's pretty big.
• 22:52
  Travis: I stay away from the ocean.
• 22:53
  Travis: I mean, it's it's overwhelming to look at.
• 22:55
  Travis: Yeah.
• 22:56
  Travis: I I stay away from all big things.
• 22:58
  Travis: Anyone over six foot, I have a real hard time with.
• 23:01
  Josh: Yeah, we lowered our ceilings in our house to 5'11.
• 23:05
  Travis: Make sure everybody stoops.
• 23:06
  Travis: Yep.
• 23:06
  Travis: Yep.
• 23:06
  Travis: Too big.
• 23:08
  Josh: Mm-hmm.
• 23:08
  Travis: Uh, between October 1979 and February 1980, hey, good stretch of time there.
• 23:14
  Travis: How do you say so?
• 23:15
  Travis: A little bit of personal history.
• 23:17
  Travis: That's where this guy came into creation.
• 23:20
  Josh: This may not have been a good time for the people you're about to talk about.
• 23:23
  Travis: Uh, well, who cares?
• 23:24
  Travis: So Doreen Levescue, who's 17, Barbara Raposa, who's 19, and Karen Marston, 20, were murdered in cases you should have told me about that.
• 23:33
  Travis: I thought you knew.
• 23:34
  Travis: Damn it.
• 23:35
  Travis: Were murdered, were murdered in cases connected with Fall River and its sex trade.
• 23:40
  Travis: A woman named Robin Murphy pleaded guilty to second-degree murder in the Marston case and testified against Carl Drew, a local satanic cult leader and pimp.
• 23:49
  Travis: Wow.
• 23:49
  Travis: That's a resume.
• 23:50
  Travis: No kidding.
• 23:52
  Travis: That guy's one too many things.
• 23:54
  Travis: So Drew was convicted and sentenced to life.
• 24:00
  Travis: Murphy later recanted major portions of her testimony.
• 24:03
  Travis: Questions remain about the reliability of witnesses, informants, and allegations of ritual activity.
• 24:09
  Travis: Later, paranormal accounts often combine the three cases into one series of cult murders, even though the evidence and defendants differed.
• 24:17
  Josh: Yeah, there was a lot of missing people.
• 24:19
  Josh: And even still, there's lots of people that just banish.
• 24:22
  Travis: The 80s were a dark time.
• 24:24
  Travis: Yeah.
• 24:24
  Travis: Luckily, we made it out of the meat grinder that was the 80s and 90s.
• 24:28
  Travis: Yeah.
• 24:28
  Travis: So now which leads us right into the Satanic Panic, which was a big deal during this time, and the Freetown Forest.
• 24:36
  Travis: So the crimes occurred as the American Satanic Panic was growing.
• 24:39
  Travis: While investigating reports of cold activity in Freetown State Forests, police reportedly discovered a bunker hidden beneath a tarp.
• 24:47
  Travis: Inside were dolls, children's furniture, clothing, and other objects that investigators considered deeply unsettling.
• 24:55
  Josh: Just the investigators?
• 24:56
  Josh: Yeah.
• 24:57
  Josh: No, I think everyone found that.
• 24:59
  Travis: Feeling very unsettled right now reading it.
• 25:01
  Travis: Yeah, I don't like that.
• 25:02
  Travis: And you too, listener, I'm sure, probably don't like to hear that story.
• 25:05
  Travis: It's pretty upsetting.
• 25:06
  Travis: A story soon spread that the bunker had been used for occult ceremonies, but no publicly available inventory established what the objects were actually doing there.
• 25:15
  Travis: The structure eventually disappeared, leaving behind photographs, conflicting accounts, and a legend that became darker with every retelling.
• 25:23
  Josh: Oh man.
• 25:23
  Josh: Don't like that.
• 25:25
  Josh: I think there was different levels to that satanic panic.
• 25:27
  Josh: I think there was the popularity thing, you know, just the high schooler trying to be cool.
• 25:33
  Josh: And then I think there was also the extreme version of that.
• 25:38
  Josh: Not everyone that was involved in the satanic panic was a part of stuff like this.
• 25:43
  Josh: Josh, most people weren't involved.
• 25:45
  Travis: This was a way to villainize a certain youth movement.
• 25:49
  Travis: Like some of these things are still happening.
• 25:51
  Travis: You know, we're still finding people missing.
• 25:54
  Travis: And, you know, you might find animal mutilations, but most of this is just like trying to villainize a group of like youngsters whose music the older generation didn't really understand.
• 26:07
  Josh: Yeah.
• 26:07
  Josh: I mean, finding these murders and stuff and missing people, it just adds to the whole triangle mystery.
• 26:13
  Travis: Yeah.
• 26:14
  Josh: Ugh man.
• 26:15
  Travis: Yeah.
• 26:15
  Travis: When I start to think about how dark the 80s were, like, not just with the murders and missing people, but also all of the media that kids were exposed to, how dark that was.
• 26:28
  Travis: Like all the animation from Don Bluth, like Anastasia or All Dogs Go to Heaven, or things like that that were really scary.
• 26:36
  Travis: The Secret of Nym, The Dark Crystal.
• 26:39
  Josh: Yeah, All Dogs Go to Heaven felt dirty to me.
• 26:41
  Josh: I watched it a lot because it was one of the few things we had on VHS.
• 26:44
  Josh: But it just like there's a hell scene though, yeah.
• 26:48
  Travis: Where the dog is maybe not going to heaven and it goes to hell.
• 26:52
  Travis: And you're just like, wait a second, but that is not the narrative that this title has told me.
• 26:57
  Travis: It's that all dogs go to heaven.
• 27:00
  Travis: Yeah.
• 27:00
  Travis: But that was just the media we had back then.
• 27:02
  Travis: It was all really dark.
• 27:04
  Josh: So now we're just gonna add another layer to this Bridgewater triangle.
• 27:09
  Josh: A spectacular layer.
• 27:12
  Josh: Woo! A haunting layer.
• 27:14
  Josh: Uh-huh.
• 27:15
  Josh: We'll start with the red-headed hitchhiker.
• 27:18
  Josh: So on Route 44 near Rehoboth and Seaconk, drivers report a tall, broad man with bright red hair, a thick beard, red flannel shirt, work clothes, and heavy boots.
• 27:30
  Josh: Sounds like Paul Bunyan.
• 27:31
  Josh: This one sounds like you too.
• 27:33
  Josh: Uh-oh.
• 27:33
  Josh: Other than is it tall?
• 27:36
  Josh: Yeah.
• 27:36
  Josh: Oh, whew.
• 27:38
  Josh: Off the hook.
• 27:39
  Josh: So some drivers pick this guy up only for him to vanish in the cab.
• 27:44
  Josh: Others believe they have struck him or pass right through him when driving.
• 27:48
  Josh: Reports sometimes include radio static, changing stations, and a harsh laugh over the speakers.
• 27:54
  Josh: And few witnesses claim to see him again farther down the road.
• 27:58
  Travis: Do you think any of the people that have hit him or passed through him, do you think they stopped to make sure?
• 28:03
  Travis: Or do they think they just kept going?
• 28:05
  Josh: It was probably 50-50.
• 28:06
  Travis: I guess if you don't feel a collision, you're just like, well, that was spooky.
• 28:10
  Josh: I feel like I would probably keep driving.
• 28:11
  Josh: If I didn't feel anything and I look in my rear view and there's nothing there, but I saw something kind of.
• 28:16
  Josh: I mean, I'm a very attentive driver, so I would probably like get out of the way.
• 28:20
  Josh: It's definitely creepy.
• 28:22
  Josh: Yeah.
• 28:22
  Josh: Other creepy things, the lady of the ledge, a woman appears to fall from a sonnet ledge, but no body or disturbance is found.
• 28:31
  Josh: The blue lady, a glowing woman who reportedly moves through the Hokkamak reeds and sometimes said to be searching for a lost child.
• 28:39
  Travis: Oh.
• 28:40
  Josh: And then the Anawan Rock, which we mentioned earlier, phantom fires, drumming, chanting, and footsteps.
• 28:45
  Josh: The Mayflower Hill Cemetery, Pearl French's chair-shaped monument, supposedly glows, rocks, and changes position, which is super creepy.
• 28:54
  Josh: This is the young girl who passed away, and it's her chair, and people can see the kid in the chair.
• 29:00
  Josh: There's all these different things.
• 29:01
  Josh: Like it's very spooky.
• 29:02
  Josh: And then there's the mad trucker.
• 29:04
  Josh: A black pickup chases drivers down Copecat Road before disappearing.
• 29:09
  Travis: That guy sounds like a menace, an absolute menace.
• 29:12
  Travis: Yeah.
• 29:13
  Travis: He's probably listening to this death metal.
• 29:16
  Josh: Do what?
• 29:19
  Travis: Just getting angrier.
• 29:20
  Travis: Yeah, you're so wrong.
• 29:22
  Travis: Just getting madder.
• 29:24
  Travis: Uh-huh.
• 29:24
  Travis: Oh man.
• 29:26
  Josh: But yeah, it just adds to the layer of this wild triangle.
• 29:30
  Travis: So now let's just talk a little bit about is it actually just one sort of phenomena?
• 29:35
  Travis: Theory one is that it's residual energy, meaning like violence, grief, and emotional events are sometimes believed to somehow leave an imprint that can replay as apparitions, sounds, or sensations.
• 29:47
  Travis: Problem with that is there's no science showing that stone or soil records records emotional events.
• 29:53
  Josh: But we could also not have the tools and or the science to be able to read that too.
• 29:59
  Josh: You know, maybe we don't have instruments that can pick up frequencies or different things.
• 30:03
  Josh: I don't know.
• 30:04
  Travis: Okay, yeah.
• 30:05
  Travis: Maybe.
• 30:05
  Travis: Maybe we we never know what we leave behind.
• 30:08
  Travis: Yeah.
• 30:08
  Travis: Right?
• 30:08
  Travis: Energy can't be created or destroyed, as they say.
• 30:11
  Travis: So if you put out a lot of big emotional energy, where does that go?
• 30:14
  Travis: It's got to go somewhere.
• 30:15
  Travis: I don't know.
• 30:16
  Travis: I'm not an emotional scientist.
• 30:18
  Travis: I'm not even a regular scientist.
• 30:20
  Josh: So residual energy for me is the theory.
• 30:23
  Josh: It's it's a maybe.
• 30:24
  Travis: Uh theory two, a portal or vortex.
• 30:27
  Travis: One energetically or magnetically in stable area produces UFOs, cryptids, ghosts, phantom vehicles, and spatial displacement.
• 30:35
  Travis: Similar to like Skinwalker Ranch.
• 30:38
  Travis: Similar to Skinwalker Ranch.
• 30:40
  Travis: Yeah.
• 30:40
  Travis: The problem with that is that it's so broad that almost anything can be treated as supporting evidence.
• 30:45
  Travis: Additionally, the region has been included in official aeromagnetic surveys, and its magnetic field varies with the underlying geology, but no scientific study has established that the Bridgewater Triangle contains an extraordinary electromagnetic anomaly or connected its magnetic conditions to the paranormal reports.
• 31:03
  Travis: So yeah, this is like throw everything at the wall theory, see what sticks kind of thing.
• 31:08
  Travis: And if everything sticks, then it's just sticky?
• 31:12
  Travis: Yeah, I guess.
• 31:14
  Josh: Yeah, and I mean I'm always curious about the electromagnetic stuff.
• 31:18
  Josh: You know, I do think that has an effect.
• 31:21
  Josh: And I think there's also things out there that we don't know or not aware of yet, too.
• 31:27
  Josh: 100%.
• 31:28
  Josh: I agree with that.
• 31:29
  Josh: I mean, what we found radiation, an invisible thing 80 years ago.
• 31:34
  Travis: You're saying Marie Curie discovered radiation 80 years ago?
• 31:37
  Travis: Was it earlier?
• 31:38
  Travis: She died 1934.
• 31:40
  Travis: Dude, but she died from radiation poisoning, so it was like still brand new.
• 31:45
  Travis: I'm not here to try to argue dates.
• 31:50
  Travis: You just threw out the dates.
• 31:52
  Travis: I'm just saying you were the one that introduced a date.
• 31:55
  Travis: You could have just said, yeah, it was it's relatively recent.
• 31:59
  Travis: You said 80 years ago.
• 32:01
  Travis: Well, I may have been a little off.
• 32:03
  Travis: That's on you, pal.
• 32:05
  Josh: I know.
• 32:05
  Travis: All right, what's another theory?
• 32:07
  Travis: Uh, the environment.
• 32:08
  Travis: There hasn't been a scientific study proving that the Bridgewater Triangle's environment causes its paranormal reports, but nearly every ingredient needed for a convincing misperception exists there.
• 32:20
  Travis: Fog alters our judgments of distance and speed.
• 32:23
  Travis: Dense trees scatter and reflect sound.
• 32:26
  Travis: Wildlife disappears behind vegetation before we can identify it.
• 32:30
  Travis: Wet power lines can hum, crackle, glow, and interfere with radios.
• 32:35
  Travis: Phantom hitchhikers can be explained by fatigue associated with highway hypnosis, which I have experienced before.
• 32:41
  Travis: Have you?
• 32:42
  Travis: Yeah.
• 32:42
  Travis: Driving from late night from the coast, the yellow dotted lines in the middle were like open-ended triangles and were closing as I was passing them.
• 32:53
  Travis: Weird.
• 32:54
  Travis: So theory four, once people know they are inside the Bridgewater Triangle, their experiences are tainted with expectations to witness the paranormal.
• 33:03
  Travis: So we're talking about psychology and the expectation.
• 33:05
  Travis: So shadow becomes Bigfoot, a bird becomes a Thunderbird, a light becomes a UFO, a missed exit becomes a time slip.
• 33:13
  Travis: Which I kind of this is, I think, where I line up a little bit.
• 33:17
  Travis: Like some some of these things, like I said, I've experienced highway hypnosis and road fatigue.
• 33:24
  Travis: And sometimes your brain is just too tired to make sense of it.
• 33:28
  Travis: And so it just knits in a little, a little story.
• 33:31
  Josh: Yeah.
• 33:31
  Josh: I mean, if I go on a ghost hunt, I will feel a little more heightened and looking for something, and anything can become something.
• 33:41
  Travis: That's funny that you brought that up.
• 33:42
  Travis: So I was talking to this guy who is getting his master psalm, that's Simolier, certification.
• 33:49
  Travis: And one of the tests they did was identifying these styles of wine, and it was a blind test.
• 33:55
  Travis: So they pour three liquid into these glasses, and then it is the job of the testee to identify testy, you know, like a person being tested upon.
• 34:05
  Travis: The test taker?
• 34:06
  Travis: Sure.
• 34:07
  Travis: Okay.
• 34:07
  Travis: Kind of worded that different.
• 34:09
  Travis: This is gonna be a double entendre episode, I guess.
• 34:11
  Travis: So the test taker has to identify not just the grape, but the region it came from, whether it's an old world wine or new world wine.
• 34:21
  Travis: And so as they were going through this, they're like, This is Chardonnay, this is Pinot, this is, you know, Saint Blanc or whatever, and they get to the last one and universally hate it.
• 34:29
  Travis: Thought it was disgusting.
• 34:31
  Travis: The proctors of the exam were like, ha ha ha, you silly idiots.
• 34:35
  Travis: And it was revealed that that last one was a very high-rated sake.
• 34:40
  Travis: So they were tasting these wines in context of a wine tasting.
• 34:45
  Travis: And when they got to the sake, their brain hadn't been able to like identify what that was, and it just tasted like vinegar or whatever, because you're tasting that in context to Chardonnays and white wines.
• 34:56
  Josh: Yeah, you put yourself in a mindset for a certain situation.
• 34:59
  Josh: I mean, if I'm gonna drive through the Bridgewater Triangle, my senses are gonna be a little more heightened for these certain things.
• 35:06
  Josh: I'm gonna be looking out for Bigfoot or looking up for a UFO or a Thunderbird.
• 35:11
  Travis: Yeah, but if you're just driving down a highway, that actually would be an interesting idea to have someone who's not familiar with the area, then the person that is guiding us just takes us through the Bridgewater Triangle and says we haven't passed through it, and then we get to our destination and they're like, Oh yeah, well, we went through it already.
• 35:26
  Travis: Did you feel anything?
• 35:27
  Josh: Yeah.
• 35:27
  Josh: But I think a lot of the witnesses and experiencers are people that grew up there living there.
• 35:34
  Josh: Then they're probably hyper-aware of what it is.
• 35:37
  Josh: But they're also living their life, you know, they're not constantly thinking about these things, kids playing out in the yard or in the forest and seeing weird shit.
• 35:44
  Josh: Sure.
• 35:45
  Travis: So theory five is that the triangle is a story machine.
• 35:48
  Travis: The triangle may gather phenomena because it already has a famous name and flexible boundaries.
• 35:53
  Travis: A strange event inside the shape becomes a Bridgewater Triangle event, producing coverage, investigations, tourism, retellings, and more reports.
• 36:01
  Travis: So that kind of ties into theory four.
• 36:03
  Travis: I think those two live together comfortably.
• 36:05
  Josh: Right.
• 36:06
  Josh: Yeah.
• 36:06
  Travis: Like anything that happens, like any sighting, you know, Shadow that becomes Bigfoot, any other region, they would be like, uh, that's a wild accusation.
• 36:15
  Travis: Or, I don't know, maybe, but here you see something, then everybody's like, oh, Bridgewater Triangle story.
• 36:21
  Travis: How exciting.
• 36:23
  Josh: Or that's because you're in the Bridgewater Triangle.
• 36:25
  Josh: That's why you saw that.
• 36:27
  Travis: Yeah.
• 36:27
  Travis: Oh, yeah.
• 36:28
  Travis: So those two I think are tied together.
• 36:30
  Travis: What an interesting phenomena.
• 36:31
  Josh: Yeah.
• 36:32
  Josh: So the Bridgewater Triangle presents a wide range of weird, unexplained experiences.
• 36:38
  Josh: UFO sightings, cryptids, ghosts, missing time, missing people.
• 36:42
  Josh: Some accounts are easier to explain through environmental factors, psychology, or misinterpretation.
• 36:48
  Josh: Others remain more difficult to dismiss completely.
• 36:52
  Josh: It may be a place shaped by fog, wildlife, history, and human imagination, but it's also a place where people continue to report experiences they can't easily explain.
• 37:02
  Josh: And that's been going on for hundreds of years.
• 37:04
  Josh: So, my final thought on this thing, when you were going through all these theories, I feel like it's just a combo of all of them.
• 37:12
  Josh: I can't say it's one thing, but I think they all work together to create this perfect shape.
• 37:19
  Josh: A triangle, you might say.
• 37:21
  Josh: I do and have and will continue to say.
• 37:26
  Josh: Good.
• 37:26
  Josh: So that's that's kind of where I do think that there is definitely something going on in this area.
• 37:32
  Josh: Sure.
• 37:33
  Josh: I think it is heightened because of people's expectations and that gets added to the story, but I also think that the environment can add to those expectations and maybe trick people.
• 37:44
  Josh: But I also believe that real things are happening, whether it be magnetic conditions being a draw for UFOs, encrypted, or ghosts, or maybe there's different weird multiple-dimension rifts where you can see things.
• 37:58
  Josh: I mean, we've talked potentially Bigfoot is not on our plane of existence, or it can zip in and out.
• 38:05
  Josh: I just think it's a little bit of everything.
• 38:07
  Travis: Yeah, you love that theory of a Bigfoot just disappearing.
• 38:09
  Travis: I do.
• 38:10
  Travis: I think it's a fun theory.
• 38:11
  Travis: So what do you think?
• 38:12
  Travis: There definitely could be something happening here.
• 38:15
  Travis: I mean, there's a lot of stories, but how many of these stories are, like we talked about, taken a little more critically or conversationally because it comes from this area?
• 38:27
  Travis: And how much our actual experiences, like, you know, walking around in the woods, I've noticed a number of times where I thought I saw something, you know, just like out of the corner of my eye.
• 38:36
  Travis: So that's like a universal experience I feel.
• 38:39
  Travis: And things in the forest move differently.
• 38:41
  Travis: Birds and deer, things like that.
• 38:45
  Travis: You know, when you get out in the wild, they become more prey animals.
• 38:48
  Travis: So they're going to be a little more guarded, and you never know.
• 38:50
  Travis: So I don't know.
• 38:52
  Travis: As far as this like being a hot spot of paranormal phenomena, sure.
• 38:58
  Travis: I can't contest that any more than I can contest any area that reports some high strangeness in it as an area of hot phenomena.
• 39:07
  Josh: Would you stay the night in Hakamak Swamp?
• 39:10
  Travis: No, probably not, but I wouldn't stay the night in any swamp.
• 39:13
  Travis: That's where Shreks live.
• 39:14
  Travis: Oh, really?
• 39:15
  Travis: Yeah, that's where a Shrek lives.
• 39:16
  Travis: I would respect uh an ogre's privacy.
• 39:19
  Travis: Okay.
• 39:20
  Josh: Yeah, if I had a nice little cabin, I would deal a little bit better.
• 39:23
  Josh: I mean, if it was like But I wouldn't just like lay down in a nest.
• 39:28
  Travis: In a nest.
• 39:29
  Travis: We're going camping.
• 39:30
  Travis: Oh man, gather those sticks up.
• 39:32
  Travis: We gotta build a nest again.
• 39:34
  Travis: Yeah.
• 39:34
  Travis: Follow a duck around and get all of its feathers to make it soft.
• 39:37
  Travis: I don't camp very much.
• 39:38
  Travis: I don't know what they call it.
• 39:39
  Travis: A tent?
• 39:40
  Josh: Is it is that what you said?
• 39:41
  Josh: A tent?
• 39:41
  Travis: Yeah.
• 39:42
  Travis: Um, I wouldn't I don't know.
• 39:43
  Travis: Swamps, that's where like all of the bad stuff.
• 39:46
  Travis: Like growing up in the 80s, like I said, quicksand was a real fear for everybody.
• 39:51
  Travis: And where do you find quicksand?
• 39:52
  Travis: In the swamps.
• 39:53
  Travis: That's true.
• 39:54
  Travis: I watched the Princess Bride on repeat growing up.
• 39:56
  Travis: Oh man, those rats.
• 39:58
  Travis: The fire swamp is where the ROUS is our rodents of unusual size, plus spouting geysers of flame.
• 40:04
  Travis: No, I do not find a swamp a very habitable place.
• 40:08
  Travis: It's where a lot of mosquitoes are.
• 40:10
  Travis: Yeah.
• 40:10
  Travis: I do and I don't do well with bugs.
• 40:12
  Travis: You know what?
• 40:13
  Josh: You convince me I'm never going outside again.
• 40:15
  Travis: No, outside sucks.
• 40:16
  Travis: Yeah.
• 40:16
  Travis: And outside, like, why would I go outside?
• 40:18
  Travis: All my stuff is inside.
• 40:20
  Josh: Yeah, you're right.
• 40:20
  Josh: I never thought of that.
• 40:21
  Josh: Yeah.
• 40:21
  Josh: Yeah.
• 40:22
  Josh: I got all my stuff in here.
• 40:23
  Travis: Yeah.
• 40:24
  Travis: That's where all my stuff is.
• 40:25
  Travis: I'm never going outside again.
• 40:26
  Travis: No, why would you?
• 40:27
  Travis: That's why we podcast.
• 40:28
  Travis: So we don't have to go outside.
• 40:30
  Josh: Yeah, I'm not gonna podcast outside.
• 40:32
  Josh: Sounds miserable.
• 40:33
  Josh: Uh-uh.
• 40:33
  Josh: Never.
• 40:34
  Josh: No.
• 40:34
  Josh: Well, I wouldn't either.
• 40:36
  Josh: That's the show.
• 40:37
  Josh: That's the Bridgewater Triangle.
• 40:39
  Travis: Let us know what you think.
• 40:40
  Travis: Hit us up in the we we don't do fan mail anymore, do we?
• 40:44
  Travis: Of course we do.
• 40:45
  Travis: We just haven't had a fan mail.
• 40:47
  Travis: So I'm I'm kind of worried.
• 40:48
  Travis: Yeah, we do.
• 40:49
  Travis: We got one.
• 40:50
  Josh: Yeah, we got a fan mail, fan mail.
• 40:52
  Josh: And uh it says regarding the last quiz, to think I put in funny throwaway answers in the multiple choice, only to have my sweet golden retriever husband respond with Cotton Mathers sounds cool.
• 41:04
  Josh: And who's Lizzie Borden?
• 41:05
  Josh: Is she one of the witches?
• 41:06
  Josh: Regretfully, Jordan.
• 41:08
  Josh: So that is my wife, who is also our researcher.
• 41:16
  Josh: She makes the quizzes.
• 41:17
  Josh: She gives us our next topic.
• 41:19
  Travis: Our DOS.
• 41:19
  Travis: Yeah.
• 41:20
  Travis: Is this how you guys communicate now?
• 41:21
  Travis: Is through fan mail?
• 41:22
  Travis: Yeah, we only communicate through fan mail.
• 41:24
  Travis: That's good.
• 41:25
  Josh: So I replied back to her.
• 41:26
  Josh: I'm sorry.
• 41:27
  Josh: I don't know how I missed these.
• 41:29
  Josh: There's nothing I can do.
• 41:30
  Travis: Hey, to be fair, Josh, you do pretty good on the quizzes.
• 41:33
  Travis: So don't beat yourself up.
• 41:34
  Travis: You didn't know who Cotton Mather or Lizzie Borden was.
• 41:38
  Travis: Yeah.
• 41:39
  Travis: Then that's fine.
• 41:40
  Travis: How much of Cotton Mather's life takes up any mental space in your head?
• 41:44
  Travis: None day to day or Lizzie Borden.
• 41:45
  Travis: None.
• 41:46
  Travis: Don't worry about it.
• 41:47
  Travis: You're okay, boo.
• 41:48
  Travis: Yeah.
• 41:48
  Josh: We also have a five-star Apple review.
• 41:52
  Travis: Wow.
• 41:52
  Travis: How many of these have we had ever?
• 41:54
  Travis: We've had four.
• 41:55
  Travis: So this is the fourth one.
• 41:56
  Travis: Take that up.
• 41:57
  Travis: It's all it's actually embarrassing that we only have four.
• 42:00
  Travis: Never mind.
• 42:00
  Travis: Make the numbers sound bigger.
• 42:02
  Josh: Yeah.
• 42:02
  Josh: Yeah.
• 42:02
  Josh: Okay.
• 42:03
  Josh: This one says, Wow, Le Podcast est divertissante.
• 42:09
  Josh: So starting out French.
• 42:11
  Josh: Okay.
• 42:11
  Josh: Travis, you know I love you.
• 42:13
  Josh: See you soon at the famous WC.
• 42:17
  Travis: Okay.
• 42:17
  Josh: This is my newest and favorite podcast to binge.
• 42:20
  Josh: I know that's it.
• 42:21
  Josh: Starting now.
• 42:22
  Travis: Yeah.
• 42:22
  Travis: That is my friend Thomas.
• 42:26
  Travis: Okay.
• 42:26
  Travis: And we have a wine confidence class in Albany called Wine Crush.
• 42:34
  Josh: Thank you for that review.
• 42:35
  Josh: It's a five-star review.
• 42:36
  Travis: Thank you, Thomas.
• 42:37
  Travis: We love it.
• 42:38
  Josh: We want more.
• 42:38
  Josh: We'll only read five-star.
• 42:40
  Travis: It's a five-star review, but they say this podcast sucks.
• 42:43
  Travis: Per the rules that we've set forth, we would still have to read it.
• 42:46
  Travis: Yeah, we're not rule breakers.
• 42:48
  Travis: No, we're we're bound by this rule now.
• 42:50
  Travis: And then the curse that was put upon us where we have to podcast the show for the rest of our lives.
• 42:56
  Josh: So leave a review with five stars.
• 42:58
  Josh: Tell your friends.
• 42:59
  Josh: Sure.
• 43:00
  Josh: We're leave our curse.
• 43:01
  Josh: Yeah.
• 43:02
  Josh: That's what we got for fan mail and review.
• 43:04
  Josh: And now we're going to get into our baseline quiz.
• 43:09
  Josh: So this is our baseline quiz.
• 43:13
  Josh: This is when we find out what next episode's topic's going to be because we don't know.
• 43:17
  Josh: Our researcher surprises us at the end of every episode.
• 43:21
  Josh: So this episode's topic is giants.
• 43:28
  Travis: Yes.
• 43:29
  Josh: Yes.
• 43:29
  Josh: I love giants.
• 43:30
  Josh: And I actually know a little bit about this.
• 43:33
  Josh: I've watched a handful of things about giants and it stuck.
• 43:36
  Josh: Cool.
• 43:36
  Josh: Very excited.
• 43:37
  Josh: Look at me, Travis.
• 43:39
  Travis: You are excited.
• 43:40
  Travis: I can see it in your eyes.
• 43:41
  Travis: Yeah.
• 43:42
  Travis: We just watched the Odyssey.
• 43:44
  Travis: Oh, there you go.
• 43:45
  Travis: And that deals with the Lystergonians, which were giants.
• 43:48
  Travis: Also, Cyclops, pretty big guy.
• 43:50
  Travis: Yeah.
• 43:51
  Travis: If you believe in that kind of thing, pretty big.
• 43:53
  Travis: Even if you don't believe in it, he was still big.
• 43:55
  Travis: It's like saying Sasquatch is big if you believe in it.
• 43:57
  Travis: Well, Sasquatch is big, whether you believe in it or not.
• 44:00
  Josh: It's a big boy.
• 44:00
  Josh: Yeah.
• 44:01
  Josh: Okay, so next episode's topic is gonna be giants.
• 44:05
  Josh: Oh man.
• 44:06
  Josh: So okay, we'll start.
• 44:07
  Josh: Question one.
• 44:08
  Josh: According to Paiute oral tradition, what were the red-haired giants of Lovelock Cave called?
• 44:14
  Josh: Oh, I don't know what this.
• 44:15
  Josh: Okay.
• 44:16
  Josh: Is it A Sitaka?
• 44:18
  Josh: B Jotnar, C, Chintilac, or D Andre?
• 44:24
  Josh: Let's see what she did there.
• 44:25
  Josh: The giant?
• 44:26
  Josh: Yeah.
• 44:27
  Travis: Jotnar, I think that's it.
• 44:29
  Travis: Norse?
• 44:30
  Travis: I think so, yeah.
• 44:31
  Travis: Okay.
• 44:31
  Travis: I'm gonna say the Sitaka.
• 44:34
  Travis: Okay.
• 44:34
  Travis: I'm gonna say Chintilac.
• 44:36
  Travis: Okay.
• 44:37
  Travis: Just for drama.
• 44:38
  Josh: I get it.
• 44:38
  Josh: All right.
• 44:39
  Josh: Which island nation is home to the Gigantija temples.
• 44:45
  Josh: I don't know.
• 44:46
  Josh: Is it A Bali?
• 44:47
  Josh: B Iceland, C Malta, or D Cuba?
• 44:52
  Josh: Oh man, I don't know.
• 44:54
  Josh: Um I'm gonna say Bali.
• 44:56
  Josh: I recently saw some really cool carvings and doorways.
• 45:00
  Josh: I don't know if the doorways were exceptionally big.
• 45:03
  Josh: I'm gonna say that.
• 45:04
  Josh: Because I know they had temples there.
• 45:05
  Travis: Okay.
• 45:06
  Travis: Jeez, I don't know.
• 45:07
  Travis: This one's a real stumper.
• 45:09
  Travis: Double G at the beginning.
• 45:11
  Travis: And is the J a huh?
• 45:14
  Travis: I don't know.
• 45:15
  Travis: And there's a dot above the first G.
• 45:17
  Travis: Yeah, whatever what does that mean?
• 45:18
  Travis: I'm gonna say Malta because of that.
• 45:21
  Josh: Okay.
• 45:21
  Josh: Next one.
• 45:23
  Josh: What did some 19th century reports claim giant skeletons possessed?
• 45:27
  Josh: A double rows of teeth, B, horns, C, wings, or D, bones made of stone.
• 45:34
  Josh: Oh, stone bones.
• 45:36
  Josh: I know this one.
• 45:37
  Travis: So you Oh, you do?
• 45:38
  Travis: I do.
• 45:39
  Travis: Giant skeletons.
• 45:41
  Travis: God, wings would be really scary.
• 45:44
  Travis: Yeah.
• 45:44
  Travis: Uh I'm gonna say bones of stone.
• 45:46
  Travis: Okay.
• 45:47
  Travis: What are you gonna say?
• 45:48
  Travis: I don't know if I should tell you.
• 45:49
  Travis: Uh, you have to tell me.
• 45:50
  Travis: I'm not gonna change my answer.
• 45:52
  Josh: It's double rows of teeth.
• 45:53
  Josh: Okay.
• 45:54
  Josh: Yeah.
• 45:54
  Josh: That sounds pretty scary.
• 45:56
  Josh: Yeah.
• 45:57
  Josh: All right, next one.
• 45:58
  Josh: Which institution is most often accused in giant skeleton cover-up stories?
• 46:03
  Josh: Is that A, NASA, B, the Smithsonian, C, the Library of Congress, or D, UNESCO?
• 46:10
  Josh: What do you think?
• 46:11
  Travis: I don't know.
• 46:12
  Travis: I think like, what do we really know about what the Smithsonian's up to?
• 46:15
  Travis: Bunch of nefarious historians over there?
• 46:18
  Travis: Mm-hmm.
• 46:19
  Travis: I'm gonna say the Smithsonian.
• 46:21
  Josh: Okay.
• 46:21
  Josh: I am saying the Smithsonian too, because I know, and it makes me so angry, and I'm so excited to tell everyone about it.
• 46:28
  Josh: Okay.
• 46:28
  Josh: Next episode.
• 46:29
  Josh: Bunch of no good Knicks.
• 46:30
  Josh: They are up to no good.
• 46:32
  Josh: It is a government.
• 46:34
  Josh: Well, I'll we'll do it next episode.
• 46:36
  Josh: Okay, next one.
• 46:38
  Josh: Which famous American mentioned extinct giants in a draft about Niagara Falls?
• 46:43
  Josh: Is that A, Abraham Lincoln?
• 46:45
  Josh: B, Paul Revere, C, Theodore Roosevelt, or D, Benjamin Franklin?
• 46:51
  Josh: I'm gonna say Teddy.
• 46:53
  Josh: He was like uh an explorer, an outdoorsy person.
• 46:56
  Josh: He would stay in a swamp.
• 46:57
  Travis: Oh, I mean, he was probably born in a swamp.
• 47:00
  Josh: I was thinking that as well.
• 47:02
  Travis: Fingers crossed.
• 47:03
  Josh: All right, and then last one in the Bible, the Israelite spies said they felt like what beside the Nephilim?
• 47:09
  Josh: So A, ants, B, grasshoppers, C, children, or D, minnows.
• 47:15
  Josh: I'm gonna say children.
• 47:16
  Josh: I don't know.
• 47:18
  Josh: You love the Nephilim.
• 47:19
  Josh: I'm gonna say grasshoppers.
• 47:22
  Travis: That feels more biblical, like locusts or but what's uh what's a locust, but just a rabid grasshopper?
• 47:29
  Josh: I mean, that's what it is.
• 47:29
  Josh: Or the same.
• 47:30
  Travis: Oh yeah, yeah.
• 47:31
  Josh: All right, I'm gonna submit.
• 47:32
  Josh: We're gonna check our accuracy.
• 47:34
  Josh: Okay.
• 47:35
  Josh: Okay, okay, I'm doing good.
• 47:38
  Josh: I did uh still bad.
• 47:40
  Josh: All right, so first one, what were the red-haired giants of Lovelock Cave called?
• 47:45
  Josh: I said Sitica.
• 47:46
  Travis: I said the Chentilac.
• 47:48
  Travis: I was wrong.
• 47:49
  Travis: It was Sitaka.
• 47:51
  Josh: Next one, which island nation is home to the Jantaja temples?
• 47:58
  Josh: I said Bali.
• 47:58
  Josh: I said Malta.
• 48:00
  Travis: Guess what?
• 48:01
  Travis: Malta's right.
• 48:03
  Travis: Did it through words?
• 48:05
  Travis: Yeah.
• 48:05
  Travis: Through sounding things out and etymology.
• 48:07
  Travis: You did it.
• 48:08
  Travis: I did it.
• 48:09
  Travis: You beautiful minded it.
• 48:10
  Travis: I did it.
• 48:11
  Travis: I worked my way back.
• 48:12
  Josh: All right.
• 48:13
  Josh: Next one.
• 48:13
  Josh: What did some 19th century reports claim giant skeletons possessed?
• 48:17
  Travis: I said double rows of teeth.
• 48:19
  Travis: I said bones made of stone because I keep thinking about trolls from like fantasy characters, and when they go out in the sun, they turn into stone.
• 48:28
  Josh: Yep.
• 48:28
  Josh: And the answer is double rows of teeth.
• 48:31
  Travis: For chomping.
• 48:31
  Josh: Next one, which institution is most often accused in the giant skeleton cover-up stories?
• 48:36
  Josh: We both said Smithsonian.
• 48:38
  Travis: Yeah.
• 48:39
  Josh: And that is correct.
• 48:40
  Josh: Those bastards.
• 48:41
  Josh: And then next one, which famous American mentioned extinct giants in a draft about Niagara Falls?
• 48:48
  Josh: Oh man.
• 48:49
  Josh: We both said Theodore Roosevelt.
• 48:51
  Josh: We should have taken the actual giant.
• 48:53
  Josh: Right.
• 48:54
  Josh: Abraham Lincoln.
• 48:55
  Josh: Abraham Lincoln.
• 48:56
  Josh: He was a man of tall stature.
• 48:58
  Josh: And then lastly, in the Bible, the Israelite spies said they felt like what beside the Nephilim?
• 49:03
  Josh: I said grasshoppers.
• 49:04
  Josh: I said children.
• 49:05
  Josh: And it was grasshoppers.
• 49:07
  Josh: Wild.
• 49:08
  Josh: Yeah.
• 49:09
  Josh: I got two right.
• 49:10
  Josh: I got three, four.
• 49:12
  Josh: Whoa.
• 49:13
  Josh: Yeah, that was hard.
• 49:15
  Josh: And I think Jordan knew that I knew, so I think she made it a little bit harder for me.
• 49:19
  Josh: That's not fair.
• 49:20
  Josh: For you?
• 49:21
  Travis: Because that means double hard for me.
• 49:23
  Travis: Oh boy.
• 49:24
  Travis: You got two.
• 49:25
  Travis: You can never win.
• 49:26
  Travis: Doesn't matter.
• 49:26
  Travis: Go, go hard.
• 49:28
  Josh: Well, thank you for listening.
• 49:29
  Josh: Definitely tune in to the next episode.
• 49:31
  Josh: We drop every two weeks.
• 49:33
  Josh: It's gonna be about giants.
• 49:34
  Travis: Yeah, love it.
• 49:35
  Josh: We're gonna blow your mind.
• 49:37
  Travis: Oh man.
• 49:38
  Travis: Well, thanks for listening.
• 49:39
  Josh: All right.
• 49:40
  Josh: Well, we will chat at you next episode.
• 49:42
  Josh: Hey, bye.