Latest / Auto Collabs / Auto Throws a Punch with Darren Doane

Transcript

Auto Throws a Punch with Darren Doane · Auto Collabs

• 0:00
  Does anybody remember a guy named Matt Pinfield? [upbeat music] This is Auto Collabs. MTV. Gosh. Uh- Could, couldn't pin- Er, no... couldn't pin the man if you asked for him to.
• 0:17
  No, ba ba. Ba-dum tss. [laughs] So he called Darren Doane, today's guest, one of the most prolific directors of our time. Matt Pinfield was a big shot at MTV.
• 0:29
  He was the guy that everybody listened to and looked at, and he was right in so many more ways than he even realized at the time because Darren has directed music videos, and when you add them up on YouTube, you get to the Bs in views.
• 0:44
  Billions. Wow. So we're talking about Blink-182, we're talking about Jason Mraz, um, Kid Rock. Kid Rock. Yeah. Right, just the, the Zach Brown Band, like, it goes on and on.
• 0:54
  He actually launched the Toyota Tundra for, uh, for Toyota with Saatchi & Saatchi. And guess what? Wow. They shut down the shoot for a day- [laughs]... because he shot the truck while it was dirty. Wow.
• 1:09
  So if you've seen a truck commercial that has dirt on the truck and it's working like it's supposed to, it's because Darren was like, "Are you people kidding me? What do you mean- [laughs]...
• 1:16
  we can't shoot the truck when it's dirty? That's why people buy trucks." [laughs] Like, it's not a secret, right? And, like, they literally had a whole meltdown over this. Yeah. Darren Doane has a term called Doaning it.
• 1:27
  Yeah, and it actually wasn't him that said that. I actually listened to- I didn't know that. So it was a...
• 1:32
  I listened to the whole story, the backstory on it, was he had a buddy that was, that was on a shoot with him, and basically came up to him and l- looked over at, at someone else who was following his rhythm of, like, shooting low, cinematic, right?
• 1:48
  Yeah. That deep feel that we, that you and I get to know of him. And he was like, "Look, he's over there Doaning it," right? [laughs] And so, like, then it's just kind of come, and, and it's kind of come full circle.
• 1:58
  And I guess around, like, music, a lot of people know that, that kind of phrase. But one of the things that I love, and, and I, I actually, through this, I...
• 2:06
  As I was heading here, uh, because I knew we were gonna be recording a ton of content and we were gonna be running hard at everything we were gonna do today, the s- phrase stuck in my head that was the part, uh, the, that was the first part of a podcast that he did from his truck, l-...
• 2:22
  No, no, no doubt, which most podcasters know is, like, death to a podcast- Yeah... because the audio's terrible. Truck audio through a phone. Right?
• 2:29
  [laughs] And in, at the end of that intro, it, he said, "We are not precious here." And that phrase sticks with me because what it allows you to do is it frees you up to run- Yeah... and just go.
• 2:44
  And so that's something that we've taken to- today as we're recording this segment, and a lot of other things that I think all of us have done through our, uh, legacy so far in automotive, if you can call that a legacy.
• 2:57
  But, like, what we've already done is just, "Hey, we're not precious. We're just gonna go, and we're gonna start, and we're gonna press play and see what happens."
• 3:05
  And I think that that mindset is something that, that anybody in business can take and run with. Absolutely. We can't wait for you to ma-... I have no idea what he's gonna say- [laughs]...
• 3:14
  but I know it's gonna be awesome. The rebel, Doaning it, Darren Doane. Right here on the Fact Checker podcast. [laughs] What? He fact checked you.
• 3:31
  [upbeat music] Cirillo feels like our Seth Rogen. And I don't know why. It's- Oh, my gosh. That's... [laughs] His, his dreams just came true. It- Okay, Cirillo is like- I've been waiting for someone to ask me that. Okay.
• 3:45
  No, no, no. [laughs] This is like Seth Rogen and Joe Rogan in one person. [laughs] That is Michael Cirillo. Joe Sethin. I think- [laughs] No. Um, so funny story, um, this is years ago.
• 3:58
  Uh, and by the way, this is the first time I had ever heard the reference. So I, I'm, I'm walking through a Brookstone in the Colorado Airport, and the staff is following me around the, kind of the kiosk.
• 4:09
  And I'm, you know, I'd look and they'd be like, "Ooh, ooh, ooh," pretending they're stocking shelves. [laughs] Who did they think you were? And, and so as I'm leaving the store, "Sir, sir, sir.
• 4:20
  You're not Seth Rogen, are you?" [laughs] And I lift, I was wearing, like, a Newsies kind of cap. Yeah. And I'm like, "Bro." You're like- And they- "Yeah, w- we thought you were preparing for a role."
• 4:29
  I'm like, "I'm 4 1/2 feet shorter than Seth Rogen, for starters." [laughs] But I never heard this. I posted on Facebook, I'm like, "Guys, you'll never... Uh, guess what happened?"
• 4:37
  And everyone's like, "Holy crap, you do look like Seth Rogen." I've done hiring interview. I'm not kidding you, I do hiring interviews. I'm like, "Okay, any, any questions for me?"
• 4:45
  They're like, "Has anybody ever told you you look like Seth Rogen?" [laughs] This has now been going on for years and years and years, and so. I've never heard that, and Darren just nailed it right out of the gate. Yeah.
• 4:54
  And, and funny enough, I was in the movie Newsies, and he just made a Newsies reference. Were you? I am. Yeah. No, you weren't. I am. Yes, yes, I was. That's where I met Christian Bale.
• 5:03
  My first short film was with Christian Bale because I was an extra. See, this is how every Darren Doane conversation goes. What the balls.
• 5:10
  I was, yeah, I was, because my dad was in the film industry, so he'd, I'd be, I'd go do a little extra stuff growing up with my dad. I'm 19 years old and they are making Newsies.
• 5:20
  I get a call from Central Casting and they're like, "Hey, we need some extras for a movie." And I was like 19. I was like, "I'm a director now." And the guy was like- [laughs] I don't do extras. [laughs] Yeah, exactly.
• 5:29
  He calls back three months later, so I'm even more broke at that point, and he goes, "Look, it's-" How about now? "... 45," he goes, "It's 45 days of work. I'll pay you 165 a day plus meal penalties."
• 5:41
  And I was like, "Oh, I'm, I'm in." [laughs] And then, so I used that money, and then ended up meeting Christian Bale on the set. Made my first short film, blah, blah, blah. But yeah, I'm in Spots Gang.
• 5:51
  I'm a featured extra/dancer in, uh, Newsies, so. Really? My, my girls watch that show all the time. What, where in the movie are you? I'm in Spots Gang, so I'd have to show you. Okay.
• 6:02
  You know, widescreen version helpsLiterally, if it's, if it's the TV version- [laughs] He's like, "I'm out"... of how my scenes are cut out, I was always, like, the edge fringe guy. But, um- Grr... yeah.
• 6:12
  So you got the s- I'll, I'll f- yeah. Okay. I have a close-up, I have a close-up on, "And we're off, and we're off to the races again."
• 6:19
  [laughs] I, I get a close-up on, "And we're off", and I get the background, "And we're off to the races again." So, so when was the last time you did any of those dance parts? What are you talking about?
• 6:31
  It's how he gets out of bed in the morning. I mean, yeah, I mean, I'm a- Right to the races... I'm a dancer, I'm a d- well, funny, a- again, I don't like this whole show about me. Here we go.
• 6:38
  He's like, "Funny story, so I was hanging out- Well, well, I was an extra... with Marlon Brando." [laughs] I'm an extra. Well, I've got a Brando story. But I g- so I'm an extra and- That's an extra...
• 6:47
  I'm walking, we're at the Paramount or Universal back lot, and I'm walking, and somebody yells from one of the fake alleys, they say, "Hey, you got 20 minutes left if you wanna get a massage." And I was like,
• 6:58
  I was like, "Okay." And so I go down, and they had all these massage tables out. [laughs] They thought I was a dancer. The dancers got massages all day, so I jump into a massage.
• 7:08
  But from that point on, I kid you not, I then have to act as a dancer- [laughs]... for the rest of Newsies so I can keep getting the massages. [laughs] So I just made my way into, like, the, like, the dance world. Oh.
• 7:22
  You know? So. [laughs] Oh, my gosh. Wow. Well, this is not how I expected this interview to start.
• 7:27
  But, you know, honestly, I never have many expectations other than I have no idea where the conversation's gonna go every time we, whether it's just a quick phone call or we're recording for a podcast.
• 7:39
  Um, Darren, thank you so much for giving some of your time today. I know you're just kinda got this whole Ty Pennington vibe going on right now with the shiplap behind you- [laughs]...
• 7:47
  and the V-neck, [laughs] which is a new, it's a new look for you, which I really appreciate. Um, but, [laughs] uh, let's bring it back, bring it back. We're s- we're serious podcasters. Um- Launching my new look today.
• 7:58
  [laughs] Today. He's, he's the, the, the new Darren Doane. You can see him at a Sotacon. Um, let's talk for a second about, um, let's bring back automotive industry, okay? Yeah.
• 8:06
  'Cause our, our audience is primarily automotive.
• 8:08
  You have so many relationships with business owners in so many industries across the country, from pharmaceuticals, to filmmaking, to surfing, to pro gaming, like the whole gamut. Yeah, yeah.
• 8:20
  What are some of the similarities you're seeing across the board, and, you know, maybe ones that you think would probably be relevant to retail auto?
• 8:29
  Um, well, first, I, I was blown away on the post that you guys had about Best Buy. I, and I, I shared that. [laughs] I mean, I think- About how to hiring the Best Buy employees? [laughs] Yeah, no.
• 8:40
  I mean, Michael, did you see that post they gave on... I don't know if you saw that post they gave on that, but it was, it, I mean, I thought that was so spot on. I don't follow these people. Yeah, I know.
• 8:48
  That, that's why I wanted to queue that up. [laughs] Um, but- Just smack him across the- I knew I had dirt on you before we started. [laughs] Michael, Michael's like, "Where am I?" [laughs] Yeah. You know?
• 9:00
  Um, how'd I get here? But no, I think that is, um, I think auto, again, I've always...
• 9:08
  W- what I love about the auto industry and what I've loved the last couple years is it's, and what I'm noticing, is it is becoming one of those industries that it turns out, um, isn't going anywhere. Mm-hmm.
• 9:23
  And the opportunities that continue, um, to grow within automotive, because ultimately automotive is the real estate business. And it turns out when you own real estate, you can pivot, not just pivot, you can flip-flop.
• 9:40
  You can say, "You know what? We're doing this for the next year or the next six months," or, "We're doing this," or, "We're doing that."
• 9:47
  And so to me, what's happening in automotive is, much like we talk about social media and content communication, every single thing is on the table.
• 9:56
  And what's great about the DNA about automotive is the DNA within automotive is so wacky that they're down for- What do you mean? Well, they're, I mean, you think of the old school.
• 10:07
  Again, I grew up in Southern California, so for me, it was Cal Worthington. "I'm Cal Worthington. Come on down." Yes. [laughs] And they're at the lot, and they got balloons, and they got giraffes walking around.
• 10:17
  [laughs] You know, I grew up in the '70s. My dad worked on a film called Used Cars, which was to me was, like, a classic growing up. Used Cars is just amazing. And but it was wild.
• 10:28
  Used, like, the automotive industry is still wild. Like, the automotive industry in the age that we live in still has testosterone. Like, it's, it's, it is still the Wild West.
• 10:41
  And so now that no one knows what's going on, the people that are gonna win in any industry are, are gonna be the ones that are like, "Let's try it."
• 10:50
  Like, let's, you know, I'm watching my language here, but let's just go. Let's do this. And in the automotive DNA is it's wild, and they're down for anything, right? Kyle disagrees. Kyle disagrees.
• 11:02
  You have been- I gotta tell you, I'm sick of Kyle. If you want to leave, again- Kyle vehemently disagrees... you can leave. Kyle's like, "Forget this." I left the- You know what I think is- I left the podcast.
• 11:10
  I left the podcast. Yeah, he's like, "I'm out." Uh, well- "I disagree"... I came back because I got this from someone just a few years back. Sh- she was an employee of mine.
• 11:19
  And, uh, she was like, "This is exactly what, like, being an employee of yours is like." But I think it's actually the, the automotive industry, if you can't see.
• 11:27
  It says, it says, "You don't have to be crazy to work here. We'll train you." And that's, like, automotive.
• 11:33
  [laughs] Like, I see people come into automotive, and they're like, "Okay, I'm gonna be a professional salesperson." And by, like, two months in, they're like, "This place is crazy."
• 11:42
  And all the sudden, like, four months in, they're just one of the gang. And there's this, there's this grit and this energy that happens, whether you're at a store or you're at an industry event.
• 11:53
  And, like, it is, it's a wi- it is wild. Well, you know, and, and by the way, and then, and I can't wait, I, I can't wait to hear Michael on this, but I'll just add this. When things are ultimately fueled
• 12:04
  by a ton of money somewhere-... things can get wild. 'Cause at any given point, for it to succeed, they can just turn that tap on.
• 12:13
  And any kind of industry where you can turn the tap on and just kind of get, get, it can get wild. You can try things. And to me, that is, those things is still what makes automotive just incredibly perfect right now.
• 12:26
  I was gonna say, I love where you went with that because, I mean, we've interviewed individuals like, um, Damon Lester, who just bought his first store, and that was one of the things.
• 12:35
  Like, there's so much doom and gloom out there, like, "Save everything! The, the walls are falling in." And he's like, "Mm, I'm an accountant.
• 12:42
  Like, I'm, I'm into the forensics of money, and I think now's a good time to get into the business."
• 12:47
  I think, Kyle, if you, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he even said something about, like, a 20 and 30-year game plan.
• 12:52
  So, so now you saying this, it just really creates a nice reference point to say, no, there's a lot of opportunity here.
• 12:58
  But then I also started thinking about our own human nature, which, like, there's a lot of narrative in the industry about the doom and gloom and, "Oh, this new thing, and rapid change."
• 13:07
  You know who else said rapid change? Henry Ford. Mm. And, like, every 10-year generation after that. Like- Yeah...
• 13:15
  we have this, this tendency as human beings to be like, "Well, but if it's happening to me for the first time, it must be the first time that change has ever happened." And I, it's uncomfortable.
• 13:25
  It's like, "Dude, you're not that special, so calm down." Yeah. There's, you said things- And, and- Go ahead, respond to that. Well, I'll just say, it's like- Yeah... it, it's like that short-term memory thing.
• 13:36
  It's like everyone you know, every summer everyone's like, "Boy, this is a hot summer." You're like, "I'm pretty sure last summer was hot, too." [laughs] No, it is. It's we- it's just weird. And now- It is weird...
• 13:46
  now I live in a place where there's actually a winter, and everyone's like, "Boy, this winter," and you're like, "Oh." It's cold, huh? [laughs] I came from Southern California. Last winter seemed just as cold.
• 13:55
  Now, there's a lot of snow this year. And so you, it's... [laughs] Never thought of it that way. That's so true. Oh, man. So you said, you said things get wild, right?
• 14:08
  And you and Kyle talking about, like, the Wild West and kind of the, you said the industry, it still has testosterone.
• 14:13
  There's, meaning there's just, like, a lot of energy and there's a lot of kind of proactive hunting and gathering and proactive maneuvering and positioning constantly. It's the constant basis.
• 14:25
  You have, uh, quite a bit of involvement in an industry that seems similar to me, um, and, and I'll, I'll put them together in a second. You have individuals who can play a really tough ground game, right?
• 14:38
  Every morning there's sales meetings. Every day they're meeting customers face to face.
• 14:43
  Every day they're dealing with hundreds and thousands, and across the industry, probably millions of people in service drives coming through and having problems with their cars and dealing with facilities and regulations all day long, right?
• 14:56
  Just pounding the ground game, face to face, nose to nose, bayonet to bayonet kind of mentality, right? Yeah. Obviously with customer service in mind.
• 15:04
  [laughs] But then, and then you start to go up and you realize the leadership is getting increasingly more sophisticated as time goes on because of technology, because of a more connected world.
• 15:16
  And so you have, like, the Brian Benstocks, who you know, who will Saturday morning be firing up the sales team, talking about leadership and development and having grit and doing what it takes to get the job done.
• 15:29
  Meanwhile, he's traveling Europe, having wine with some of the most, you know, inter- sophisticated international business people. He's at the highest levels of conversation.
• 15:39
  He can keep up with anybody on just about any topic. And I look, and you're involved in the metal recycling business, right? Which some people would say is scrapping, right?
• 15:50
  But those are some of the most sophisticated business people once you get to know them and you see them. Why do you think those similarities exist? Like, what do you see between the two of those?
• 15:59
  'Cause you know, you know the recycling business really well. You know auto quite a bit better than you did- Sure... a couple of years ago. Yes. Like, what, what do you, what do you take from all of that?
• 16:08
  I mean, and again, and I, and it's hard to articulate. I'll, I'll do my best. But there's something about the people in both industries, um, again, it's hard to explain. Um, they can look at 20 acres
• 16:25
  and it, and they can say, "Let's put a lot here, and then we're gonna ship in X amount of cars." And it, and, and cars are big, and then there's transportation, and there's, like, all...
• 16:35
  And they're like, you know, and it, and it, and it doesn't phase them. Or in the recycling industry, it's also kind of construction, demo, all that. And they can be like, "Hey, let's get rid of these 10 buildings.
• 16:45
  We should level it, and then we should put the..." And, and, and they're driving in these massive machi- Everything is big.
• 16:51
  When you get around people who deal with physically big items and things that require transportation and moving and, and earth movers and th- Like, there's just something about those types of people honestly see the world as this massive play box, and they're not afraid to do literally big things.
• 17:16
  That is the one thing that I see in both industries. They're just, there's nothing small. 'Cause you can't think small. Mm. Even a small print dealership is massive, and the logistics involved,
• 17:27
  back to the DNA of it, it requires big, we're not scared. Like, the, the average human being's like, "Oh, I wanna do something to my house. I gotta go get a permit at the city, and that's gonna take forever.
• 17:42
  And what if they don't l- you know, what if I, what if they find out I did the deck and I did it myself? I could like..." Permits scare people.
• 17:48
  And people in big industry somehow are like, get permits to take down entire cities. [laughs] Like, what, like, the average Joe is like, "I just got pinged for putting a post up."
• 18:01
  My railing height is two inches too short. Right, exactly. [laughs] And, and you guys are, like, moving entire, like, suburbs? Like- [laughs] To reroute, right. Right.
• 18:12
  They're just like, you know, like-It's like the ma- like, they've got all the orange cones. They can go wherever they want with their orange cones. [laughs] Just shut stuff down. It's a game of Sim City to them. It is.
• 18:23
  So that's, that's what I see. Gee. [laughs] I mean, I literally know a dealership that the streets got built around the dealership footprint, right?
• 18:33
  [laughs] Because, because that was the only way that it was gonna happen, right? So you have those types of things. You know, when I think about this, like, thinking big mentality, when, when you talk to...
• 18:44
  You know, like this morning we're having a conversation on an app called Clubhouse with a bunch of dealers. Right.
• 18:50
  And the conversation, someone from cars.com goes, "Well, you know, when you go to the bank and you're looking to go from a floor plan of, like, 1 or $2 million, you've gotta be ready to, to, i- if you're gonna acquire this inventory, to go to, you know, 3 to $5 million."
• 19:07
  Just, and that w- just numbers thrown around. Just matter of fact. Right?
• 19:10
  [laughs] It's like a matter of fact thing that to grow, your floor plan expenses just increase by millions of dollars, you know, for a single rooftop franchise.
• 19:20
  And when you think about that, like, the whole of the auto industry is big, but that's a single... That's like the general manager of a McDonald's being like, "Our scale is going from 3 to $5 million."
• 19:32
  Now, they're not the same footprint, but it's, uh, like, the franchise mindset is not the same as any other industry that is in a franchise mindset, right? Right. Yep. Yeah. Absolutely.
• 19:42
  It's, it's- Well, where, where, and the average person's conversation is walking out of a Costco with diapers and a tub of peanut butter wondering how they spent 300 bucks.
• 19:53
  So it's [laughs] like hard for them to wrap their head around how big the influence and how big the opportunity actually is. Mm.
• 20:02
  It's one of the- Yeah, and Michael, and Michael, that's a great point too 'cause, 'cause wrapped up in there as well is then also the ability for people to take hits, right?
• 20:11
  Because the person walking out of Costco, they kind of take that hit, but then they're kind of like, "Man, to really take advantage of Costco, I need another freezer. But that freezer-" [laughs] "...
• 20:19
  is gonna cost me," right? And for them, though, but they're kind of working through, "But that's a hit."
• 20:23
  And then you kind of, you buy the freezer and you got more room and you're kind of making the Costco work for you now. You're, you're learning to take hits.
• 20:31
  On the other side, these dudes, when they take hits, it's like, "I think we might get pinged for 2 million. I think we might get pinged for 300."
• 20:39
  [laughs] "I think if we do that, I think if OSHA shows up, you know, that's like, that's a 360,000."
• 20:44
  I was literally, I was, I visit a facility, recycling facility, and they're always getting pinged for oil in the, for oil and water. That's the big thing. Water runoff, all that stuff. Okay. They literally, so the, if...
• 20:57
  But if you went to a, an intersection anywhere and took a sample of the city water at any intersection, it's way higher 'cause cars stop there and oil leaks, right? So that's being broken all the time.
• 21:11
  But I had just gotten someone, they were like, "Yeah, whatever department just showed up, they're a 180, 180. Moving on." They took $180,000 fine in the morning. Moving on.
• 21:22
  Because if you can ta- Because to live in a world of 180, I mean, let's think about this. How much money you gotta have in your pocket to not be bummed out to lose 180 bucks? I need about a grand.
• 21:33
  If I got a grand in my pocket and I can't find 180 out of that, I'm like, "Eh, it's-" You're like, "Ah, it sucks, but I'm fine." Yeah. Right. I'm okay.
• 21:40
  So you think of the numbers you gotta play with, and I think that, understanding that, that's the love I have for people that do big business, is they start playing at a game where the multiples aren't just because they're bigger numbers.
• 21:55
  I love the hits that they take. I love watching- [laughs] I love watching my clients, you know, in the morning we're about to get off, and you see me on that phone call and their face just kind of goes down for a second.
• 22:05
  [laughs] They take a breath and you go like, "What happened?" It's like... And I always say, "How much did you just lose?" [laughs] "500," you know, 500, 600. And you're like, "Woo."
• 22:15
  I mean, like, I love being around those big dogs. [laughs] Like, it's just, it's fun. It's fun. It's exciting.
• 22:19
  Well, but here's the thing, is if, if you can ta- like you're saying, if you can take the hits like that, then you have per- the perspective of what you need to do, which is from, like, a business perspective, the growth that you need to have.
• 22:32
  Right. And then what that trickles down to is the people that you get to bring along with you, right?
• 22:38
  And so, like, I talk to so many auto dealers, and they just, they eat it up when their people are m- are making good money and taking care of their families and buying new houses and getting their first brand-new car.
• 22:51
  They eat it up as a culture.
• 22:54
  And I think that that's probably also the same in these other industries, that, like, they, they literally, it's like a high for them not to sell a car, but a high for them to hear about their employee getting, like, buying their first new house as a family.
• 23:07
  Yeah, yeah. It, like, gets them all excited. You start, you see, like, social media posts. It's like, "My employee just bought a house. Epic." Right? Yeah. And that's a big, that's, that's a way that-
• 23:18
  That's that big, that's, again, that's that big mindset. That's that big mentality. People want people to win. Like, not a lot of other industries do that. You don't see
• 23:28
  any other industry being like, you know, "Steve just got a promotion and look at the new car he bought." No one talks that way. That's what I mean by there's something about the DNA in the auto industry that
• 23:42
  is about, again, there is a sexiness because we're talking about cars, we're talking about identity, we're talking about brand, that just, it just, it spills over. And
• 23:53
  in a world where you would think it would've been banned by now. It should've been canceled. Every car dealership, everyone in auto should've been canceled, like, 16 months ago. That's an interesting thought. Mm.
• 24:08
  I mean- And yet- [laughs] And yet- The, the industry was deemed- It's grown... an essential business- Yeah... and allowed to continue to operate. 'Cause now when there's...
• 24:18
  'Cause it turns out when there's a real fight-It turns out when there's a real fight, you kind of want those dudes that know how to throw a punch, and the auto industry knows how to throw a punch. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I'm...
• 24:30
  There's, there is definitely...
• 24:32
  We've been talking a lot about this cultural convergence that's happening around automotive right now, where you have for the first time in a really long time automotive in the center of pop culture conversation because of EVs.
• 24:46
  Um, so now it's in all the news outlets. I mean, you know, you have, like, an Elon Musk who, who made... is kind of like a cultural icon and entrepreneurial icon, and Teslas have become a status symbol, right?
• 24:59
  And, you know, obviously the game is, is changing and shifting.
• 25:02
  And the fact that the industry has so much cultural, uh, implication now, but if you look a layer behind that, like you back up, like, three or four years, you realize the auto industry has incredible political leverage
• 25:18
  because of the bigness of it, right? The largest retail industry. There's so many dealers and dealer groups that we know that are like, "Hey, did you know we are the largest sales tax payer in Wisconsin?" [laughs] Right?
• 25:32
  And so they- And that creates swagger, and that creates swagger. Yeah. That, there's, there's, there's no getting around that. But, you know, you know, there's, there, there is, there is a, a real...
• 25:41
  And I think it's a div- divergence from the mentality of, like, the stigma of auto dealers. And you've seen this, Darren, over the last couple years as you've met a lot more auto dealers.
• 25:51
  Um, there is a sophistication and a genuine, like... I don't, I don't even know. It's like a grassroots care for people, and it's the- Yeah...
• 26:01
  biggest misinterpretation of the auto industry that's out there in the stigma. Care for not, not only the people that work for the dealership, but care for people in the community.
• 26:11
  And so, like, there's, like, this con- not a contradiction, like a counterpoint of, like, the ability to have the swagger on the one side, and then on the other side is, like, if you remove that from culture, from employment culture, and from community, everybody would notice.
• 26:25
  They just don't realize it right now. Well, and that, that goes back to the recycling industry.
• 26:31
  The new project I'm doing with John Sacco called Repurposed, that's what, that's what we're chronicling is that if, if you were to shut down recycling facilities, everything's done. The automotive industry is done.
• 26:42
  There, there would be no automotive industry if you shut down recycling facilities across this country on a- He sh- he shared a stat about, about EVs. Uh, it was on social, and he, he actually shared about, like...
• 26:54
  It was some- something, was it 70% or 80% of the metals i- like, surrounding an EV battery? 70%. 70%. Well, first of all, 70% of all metal, all steel in America is recycled. It's from recycled material. Wow. 70%. All.
• 27:10
  Did you say- All... all steel? All. So how many percent of all steel- So what you're saying is we need to invest in steel recycling. Well, people already have.
• 27:20
  [laughs] That's, that- I mean, they're, they're- No, but I'm saying me in, in particular. That's right. Mark, he said you remember those big business things? Oh, yeah. No, no, no. Yes. [laughs] No, absolutely.
• 27:27
  No, this is... Well, and much like how auto during the pandemic was like, "Well, there's no cars," right? Well, so, and they went to service, right?
• 27:33
  And their service doubled, tripled, quadrupled, all the work everyone's doing as far as service. Um, but that, there are companies. I mean, you got companies like John Deere.
• 27:44
  John Deere has their own foundry that they're bringing scrap in, and they're, and they're actually making parts here in America with recycled, you know, because you c- that's, that's what you need.
• 27:55
  You can't, you can't service the amount of metal that's needed every single day from a certain kind of metal that's giving you the plate on the back of something to automotive to rebar.
• 28:07
  Remember, think about all the rebar in this country. Think about all, all the rebar. Like, just, that's, that still comes from 70% recycled material, right?
• 28:17
  So all those cars, everything, the shredders that are tearing apart cars, all that stuff, I mean, if, if you don't have the recycling industry, we don't have anything.
• 28:26
  But that ties, but that all ties into this, to this big group of people playing a big global game. This is a commodities game, and vehicles are just commodities. Bish. NFTs. [laughs] Well, one that won't- Ah.
• 28:43
  [laughs] But you know what's funny, though? But you know what's funny, though, Michael, is cars are NFTs. Oh, they absolutely are. Oh, oh. Yes, yes, yes. Like, so, it's- But I'm just thinking. Yeah.
• 28:54
  No, no, but you're right. I, I get you. As much as I love- I own a gorilla picture. [laughs] Yeah, right. Well, that's, that's just collectibles, right? No one- Right. Yeah, that's very true...
• 29:03
  and, and no one's taking that as their item to a desert island. Right. [laughs] It makes so, it, it makes sense, though, 'cause it's like, it's stuff you don't,
• 29:10
  th- th- that on an average day to day, you don't think about what you just... Like, how much rebar is running through not just this country, the world. Like, y- you know?
• 29:20
  And, and I think about, you know, I, I have a team member and she's like, "I don't know why I thought about this, but just, like, not too s-
• 29:29
  much prior to the, to the pandemic, I invested in all these glass companies," and all of my friends were like, "You're an idiot."
• 29:37
  And then the pandemic happens, and everyone needed glass to make the vials, to make the- Ah... to, to ship the... And she's like, "My portfolio exploded." What? That's wild. Exploded. I was like, dang.
• 29:52
  Now I'm, that's why I'm like, I gotta get into metal. Yeah, that's too- No, and you, and, and I'll, and I'll hook you up with some really great ways to think about that off, off, off the show, Michael, but it really is.
• 30:01
  Like, it is, you know... I, I'll, I'll give you one example. I'll take Cass in, um, um, the Bay Area. Every single day at their, at their recycling facility, forget the big contracts with people.
• 30:16
  Just talk about what they call average sort of peddlers, people that come in every day with a washing machine. They've maybe gone around the neighborhood.
• 30:24
  There's people that make an, that make a living-Just picking up scrap all day long and bringing it into recycling facilities. Yep, yep.
• 30:31
  In one facility in the Bay Area, a place like CASS Recycling- And that's C-A-S-S, right? C-A-S-S. If you- Are they a sponsor? If... No. [laughs] If, if you were there- They don't need to.
• 30:43
  [laughs] And, and in the course of five or six hours, you're, you're gonna get the equivalent of five, six stories by th- 30, 40 yards of, um, just,
• 31:02
  um, scrap being brought in and appliances every single three to four hours. Wow. Whoa. Wow. And that's no one, that's no union, that's no organizations.
• 31:17
  Those are just individual people bringing appliances and scrap in their trucks every single day. If there's not a recycling facility, it's... I mean, I remember what 1978 looked like. I mean, people just dumped stuff.
• 31:34
  I mean, people... I mean, and now with the speed at which that we are replenishing what we need and what we get, I mean, it is, it would be Wall-E. We would be under- [laughs]... so much stuff. Mm-hmm.
• 31:44
  [laughs] It would be insane. But it goes to, but it goes to that mindset of the auto industry. It's people who see so much bigness and they go, "I want a piece of it. I wanna be able to control it. I wanna manage it.
• 32:00
  I wanna make money off it. I wanna help people. I wanna bless people. I wanna grow from this." It's just a different mindset. It's big, it's heavy, it's shiny. You either love it or you don't. Yeah.
• 32:13
  This is why I'm like, can we stop talking about how to sell cars? [laughs] 'Cause there's so much more to this.
• 32:20
  [laughs] Like, if I open my office door and called my nine-year-old daughter and said, "What's a car dealer do?" She'd be like, "Dad, don't ask dumb questions. They sell cars."
• 32:29
  [laughs] But to your point, there s- there's an undercurrent that, where there are moves moving so big, and all we can figure out how to talk about is how to move more metal or, like, how to sell a car.
• 32:41
  You know, "What's your F&I process?" And I mean, don't get me wrong, I think all of that stuff matters. It obviously matters in the day-to-day.
• 32:47
  But I love how you're tying this, this conversation back to, in one breath we're saying car dealers serve as a backbone to so much, to community, to, you know, Paul, you said politics. There's a political aspect here.
• 33:05
  But if they're the backbone, how come w- how come we can say that in one breath and then in the other breath have such top-level conversations like how to sell more cars?
• 33:13
  Like, there's so much more going on here, which is one of the reasons why I love the industry so much. I mean- Well, that-... think about this. I mean, look, the, look, the average catalytic converter, right?
• 33:25
  Oh, here we go. Now, we know about the theft. [laughs] Here we go. We know about the theft. Nose and nose all of a sudden. We know about the theft and all that stuff, but, but forget that for a moment.
• 33:33
  You, you could have a piece of junk car sitting somewhere, right, that someone would pay you to go scrap, right?
• 33:39
  Now, they may give you a couple of hundred bucks because of the scrap, because in the scrap market they're gonna get 5, 6, 700 bucks for it, so it's a good deal. All that works out.
• 33:48
  But now the specialty item of a company like Converter Reclaim that takes that catalytic converter,
• 33:55
  slices it, cuts it, has v- very particular things, now they're pulling out of that catalytic converter- Palladium, right? [laughs] Palladium, diamonds, gold.
• 34:06
  But more importantly, about 1,500 to 2,000 bucks now of raw materials for those that know how to move it on the market. [laughs] Who was the guy- I mean-...
• 34:16
  that was like, "I bet if we put all this stuff in here, real expensive stuff, it'll make the air cleaner"? Right, right. [laughs] I mean, that, that's a whole other insane, like, how brilliant- [laughs]...
• 34:24
  people can be, right? But someone did that. And so sitting on all that stuff. But this comes back to where I think automotive has another...
• 34:32
  Look, I think once automotive begins to understand their relationship with the steel industry, with the recycling industry, with the metals industry, I think there's another opportunity there.
• 34:42
  Well, we have a couple people on this podcast that might be able to put those things together. You know what I'm saying? And Dave Meltzer would be remiss, we'd be remiss- [laughs]...
• 34:50
  if we didn't get Dave Meltzer in on some kind of overlap agreement. Yeah.
• 34:54
  [laughs] Oh, Darren, as always, we could just sit here for the next two hours and, and solve the world's problem or at least make an attempt- Sure, yeah... to change the world's thinking. At least act like it.
• 35:06
  Act like it. Yeah. [laughs] We could go drink some bourbon and be like- Right... "We did good work today."
• 35:10
  [laughs] Um, but, but we're so excited to spend some time with you in person, in one place, in Philly at ASOTU CON. Uh, thanks for giving us some of your time today.
• 35:20
  And, uh, we cannot wait to make some trouble together in just a few weeks. I can't wait. So thanks, guys, for having me. Michael, great to meet you. I, I'm looking forward to hanging- You too, man... more, man.
• 35:29
  I'm just a big fan of your face at this point, so I'm, I'm into it. Oh, shucks. Now I'm blushing. I'm into it. [laughs] All right, are we done? Is that it? Are we done? That's it.
• 35:38
  We're supposed to take a really professional look at the camera and stay there for two seconds. Ready? And go.
• 35:45
  [upbeat music] I, I don't know about the two of you, but I don't think I've ever had so much fun learning about scrap metal in my entire life. [laughs] I had no clue. I think everything...
• 35:59
  When you're with Darren, e- learning about everything is fun. Absolutely.
• 36:02
  Because he just, he just finds a way to, like, punk rock it, and then all of a sudden you're like, "Oh, maybe that is the most punk rock thing I've ever heard of. Catalytic converters."
• 36:12
  [laughs] What are the chances that we would have a Newsies reference, and then he's just randomly like- That- "Oh, I was in Newsies"... that's unbelievable. He was in Newsies.
• 36:17
  I for- I need to tell my kids about that ASAP. [laughs] We're going in and we need to, we need to blow this up on the internet.
• 36:24
  We need to be like, "Darren Doane, find him in the shot, take a photo, tag him."I bet if he- This is like, I, I mean, the, I, I have so many thoughts from that, that conversation.
• 36:34
  But I'm always intrigued by learning about kind of the subfloor to the industry.
• 36:40
  Like, y- by and large, you, you look at conversations in the industry and it's like, "How to negotiate a car deal," and you're like, "We're still talking about this?" And, and, like, to each their own.
• 36:48
  [laughs] I'm not knocking it, but, but to have someone that's clearly thinking about the layer beneath those conversations, like what is actually making the ebbs and flows of this industry, I found incredibly intriguing.
• 37:00
  It blows my mind. Actually, I had a, a s- another side conversation with Darren that, like, the majority of things like brake pads in manufacturing are made out of recycled metals.
• 37:15
  So, like, this connectivity between different industries that we're able to grab from people that are outside of our industry that are going, "Hey, zoom out a little bit," there's things that are impacting, like, global economies that, that auto has, is really, really fun.
• 37:33
  And even to see, you know, and, and this is a little bit of an aside to the interview as well, but to hear from him, his experiences with, like, retail or trading his car or selling his car.
• 37:46
  And I think he, you know, in the interview, gave us some of those things where it's like, "Hey, look, the, the automotive industry from my perspective, from the outside looking in, is, like, this wild, this big business, this large real estate sector that,
• 38:03
  like, the, like, people should be paying attention to, but it's this unsung hero of just industry in America that we forget about because it almost becomes regular.
• 38:15
  But no, these people are, these are impressive people managing large amounts of real estate and, and inventory, um, that we should be looking to for, for a lot more just in industry in general."
• 38:28
  His perspective on, like, big things. Right.
• 38:31
  People that, like, know how to do big things and, and, you know, it's, the, the normal things of life or things that may seem big to the typical person, to them, it's just like, "Oh, yeah, we can do that. Why not?"
• 38:42
  Well, yeah, we need to... And even think of how that plays down to even, like, the charitable efforts of auto dealers. Oh, 200,000 backpacks? Yeah. Who were... We were on the phone with, uh, the- [laughs]
• 38:54
  It's like, uh, the, the chairman or the, the president of the Philadelphia Auto Dealers Association. He was like, "Yeah, we give out, like, 200,000 backpacks.
• 39:00
  Yeah, we get them manufactured independently, so we get them all in, you know, so that we can actually do more backpacks, and we fit the kids up with coats." It was coats, actually. Right.
• 39:08
  "We need to get the coats made." Like, logistically speaking, that's not an easy thing. No, no. But the auto dealers are like, "Yeah, sure, we can do that. Why not? Well, because it can be done, so let's do it." Right.
• 39:19
  Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if, uh, there, there's gonna be, like, some auto group's logo on the spaceship that's going to Mars in a couple- or going to the moon in a couple of weeks.
• 39:30
  [laughs] We're like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, going to Mar- going to, going to the moon again? You know, big deal. Whatever. We got this." I'm, I'm good. [laughs] Yeah.
• 39:36
  Well, at- Somebody's gonna need to use something up there... at the same time, it's actually, it, the, the logo was done in Microsoft Paint by an eighth grader- [laughs]... on the thing, right?
• 39:45
  No, not by an eighth grader. [laughs] Sorry, shots fired. So true. Hey, look, if you enjoyed this conversation with Darren- Hola... you're gonna en- really enjoy meeting him in person.
• 39:56
  Uh, and just follow his content because his insights are incredible at all times. Uh, for Paul Daly, Michael Cirillo, and myself, this is Auto Collapse. We'll see you next time.
• 40:06
  Sign up for our free and fun-to-read daily email for a free shot of relevant news in automotive, retail, media, and pop culture. You can get it now at asotu.com. That's A-S-O-T-U.com.
• 40:19
  If you love this podcast, please leave us a review and share it with a friend. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.
• 40:25
  [upbeat music] Welcome to Auto Collapse. Welcome to Auto Collapse. [laughs] Why are we recording? Are we rolling yet?
• 40:44
  Not yet.