Latest / Voices for Voices® / How Kim Kelley Turned Trauma Into A Mission To Expose And Disrupt Child Trafficking | Ep 388

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How Kim Kelley Turned Trauma Into A Mission To Expose And Disrupt Child Trafficking | Ep 388 · Voices for Voices®

0:02
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Hey everyone, it's Justin here, Voices for Voices.
0:06
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Thank you so much for joining us on this episode of the show.
0:10
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh and for all the viewers and listeners across a hundred countries and territories in a thousand cities across the world.
0:19
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: We're grateful for you tuning in, whether this is your first episode or you've been with us the entire way over the 380 plus episodes on our way to 400 total by the end of calendar 2025.
0:38
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: We have a jam-packed uh show here, so I am just gonna get into an introduction of our guest.
0:49
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh our guest is Kim Kelley, and I'm gonna start kind of from uh a little bit from the bottom because it ties in to Voices for Voices.
0:58
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh so uh quote from uh Kim's uh Digital DefendersUnited.org site says, quote, join Kim as she continues to light up the darkness, be a Voice for the voiceless, and drive the movement to end child exploitation.
1:21
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And that is right up our alley with what we are aiming to do with uh Voices for Voices.
1:32
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Now a little bit more about Kim.
1:34
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: She is a nationally, and I'm pulling this from her CV, her resume.
1:42
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh Kim is a nationally recognized advocate for child safety, survivor of two decades of child trafficking and cult abuse, and a trusted consultant to law enforcement.
1:58
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: She was born into the notorious Children of God cult in Brazil, where her parents held senior leadership roles.
2:07
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Kim endured systemic abuse and trafficking across Brazil, Mexico, and the United States.
2:16
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: After escaping at age 20, she rebuilt her life as a serial entrepreneur, founding businesses in digital marketing, sports apparel, and wellness.
2:29
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And so I would like to uh give a big welcome to Kim Kelley for joining us today.
2:37
Kim Kelley: I really appreciate you having me, and I really appreciate you platforming this message for other survivors.
2:43
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Yeah, and that's really uh you're you're welcome.
2:45
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I didn't mean to downplay it.
2:47
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I was thinking of the first question um how this was kind of leading into it.
2:52
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: So uh some people are uh I don't want to say like introduced to a call one way or another, but your story is different.
3:04
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: You were born into uh the call.
3:07
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Can you just explain a little bit about that and and when you started to recognize things and uh just that beginning of that that story of realizing that you're you're kind of born into something that wasn't too good?
3:24
Kim Kelley: Yeah, for sure.
3:25
Kim Kelley: I can try to oversimplify that.
3:26
Kim Kelley: And I'm not expecting most people to relate, right?
3:29
Kim Kelley: I also like for the sake of a disclaimer, this is not a typical story.
3:33
Kim Kelley: This is not, you know, a healing journey I would wish on anyone.
3:37
Kim Kelley: That being said, I'm very happy with the choice I've made to heal and to release that trauma from the memories, right?
3:44
Kim Kelley: But more importantly, to me, fighting back is the biggest kind of retribution that I personally, you know, that lights me up in terms of healing and fighting back and getting to do what I do today and reclaiming my present and my future.
3:58
Kim Kelley: So my past is that I was born into and raised in.
4:01
Kim Kelley: It's one of the most notoriously abusive cults in the world.
4:04
Kim Kelley: I know that's kind of a little hook, but it's true.
4:06
Kim Kelley: Anyone who studied cults, which I'm not asking you to do, there's a list of like top five to ten most notorious, or we could say most impactful in terms of the massive impact that it had around the world, the amount of people involved and affected by it, as well as the severity of abuse.
4:23
Kim Kelley: So just to kind of set the premise here, you know, it started in the late 60s as the children of God out of Huntington Beach, California.
4:30
Kim Kelley: There was like this hippie movement, you know, free love and drugs and whatever.
4:33
Kim Kelley: And then a lot of people found Jesus and yay, Jesus saved me, right?
4:36
Kim Kelley: Now, when vulnerable people are seeking community, that can make them very vulnerable to predatory people that want to control people.
4:44
Kim Kelley: All right.
4:45
Kim Kelley: So there's nothing wrong with being vulnerable.
4:46
Kim Kelley: It's just that we have to realize that can be the perfect candidate for a controlling person, a narcissistic person who wants to control people or seeking power, profits, whatever it may be, to capitalize on that.
4:59
Kim Kelley: So in the late 60s, a bunch of let's pretend well-meaning hippies that were seeking truth and community, right?
5:05
Kim Kelley: They joined this Jesus movement, which began as quite a puritanical type of, um, let's call it a group.
5:12
Kim Kelley: A cult would fit, but sure at the time, you know, they were winning the world for Jesus, and it was like an apocalyptic cult with end of the world coming soon, so we have to save everybody, et cetera.
5:20
Kim Kelley: All right.
5:21
Kim Kelley: That being said, um, at a certain point things morphed, and this is way before I was born, obviously, certain point things morphed into what many academics would call a sex cult.
5:31
Kim Kelley: So at the time, you know, there was adults, and then all kinds of things started happening.
5:34
Kim Kelley: I'm speeding up the story, but I'm providing some context, right?
5:38
Kim Kelley: One of the most notorious things, and you can Google all of this, right?
5:41
Kim Kelley: There was a practice called flirting fish, flirty fishing, which was adults at the time.
5:46
Kim Kelley: Again, we're talking like 70s and into the 80s, where they were literally prostituting themselves to tell people about Jesus and of course collect donations.
5:53
Kim Kelley: But that was a big part of how they recruited people for their cult.
5:57
Kim Kelley: Okay, so abuse was not called abuse.
6:01
Kim Kelley: It was called God's love.
6:02
Kim Kelley: Realize that 100% of this practice was done in the name of specifically Jesus, right?
6:08
Kim Kelley: All that to say, speeding this up, still, lots more we could add for context.
6:12
Kim Kelley: And as you could, another piece important piece of information, this began in the USA, this expanded internationally.
6:19
Kim Kelley: So fast forward 20 years, maybe they were in almost every country around the world.
6:24
Kim Kelley: All right.
6:25
Kim Kelley: So we're talking about multiple governments, and just, you know, we'll get back to that corruption.
6:29
Kim Kelley: So that being said, I was born in 1989.
6:33
Kim Kelley: So by the time I was born, fast forward, um, a lot of people had escaped the cult.
6:39
Kim Kelley: There was some negative publicity, people had told local authorities or their family members, and there are two reasons that I did not suffer worse abuse in my lifetime.
6:49
Kim Kelley: I just had the luck of being born last in my sibling lineup.
6:52
Kim Kelley: It had nothing to do with me being the youngest.
6:54
Kim Kelley: It's just that my older siblings, who were born in the 70s, experienced the most unfathomable abuse because they were part of the experimental era, or when the cult was allowed to operate unhinged without oversight, when before the negative publicity, they had no accountability or checks and balances.
7:15
Kim Kelley: And the leader thought it was God's love to introduce very inappropriate, harmful abuse to children.
7:22
Kim Kelley: Now, again, speeding up a whole lot here, I understand this is not an easy story for people to hear.
7:27
Kim Kelley: That being said, another quick disclaimer: my chosen form of healing is to laugh and smile.
7:32
Kim Kelley: I believe that's a very healthy release, right?
7:35
Kim Kelley: That's not an ideal situation.
7:37
Kim Kelley: That's just what happened to me.
7:38
Kim Kelley: That being said, if I laugh and smile about really dark things, it's my disclaimer, not my apology.
7:42
Kim Kelley: That is the biggest middle finger I can give to my abusers is to laugh.
7:45
Kim Kelley: That's being said.
7:46
Kim Kelley: All right.
7:46
Kim Kelley: So around the time I was born, there was actually a series of international raids where local authorities stormed several compounds around the world and speeding it up, but they arrested the adults.
8:00
Kim Kelley: They took the children into institutions and our story should have ended there, right?
8:06
Kim Kelley: Because you would have seen headlines about, you know, cults raided, children rescued.
8:11
Kim Kelley: I'm gonna speed up the story, but again, you can look up the court documents and all the public records and just understand what that should have been and what really happened instead.
8:21
Kim Kelley: So after two short years, there was an international court case out of the UK, Lord Justice Wallace decided to acquit the entire group.
8:28
Kim Kelley: Despite 180-something pages that you can read, all the evidence and names and experts and people saying this is not safe for kids, they decided never mind, go home, everything's fine.
8:38
Kim Kelley: So all the adults, not one person was charged or convicted.
8:43
Kim Kelley: The children were returned.
8:45
Kim Kelley: So our stories did not end there.
8:48
Kim Kelley: Now, I'm gonna unpack a little bit more about this story because it does set the premise for a lot of the rest of the story as well as why I'm doing what I'm doing today.
8:56
Kim Kelley: Lots to learn from this story, right?
8:58
Kim Kelley: Just because you see headlines saying children are rescued does not mean children are safe.
9:03
Kim Kelley: Now, unfortunately, some of those children that were taken to institutions, often in third world countries, experienced even worse abuse.
9:12
Kim Kelley: In fact, some babies didn't make it.
9:15
Kim Kelley: That being said, I'm gonna draw out another important part of this story.
9:22
Kim Kelley: The reason I do what I do today, which I'll explain how I fight back and why.
9:26
Kim Kelley: And why me, because it really should be everyone else who's getting paid to do this job.
9:30
Kim Kelley: However, awareness, right?
9:32
Kim Kelley: You hear a lot of nonprofits and that word being thrown around as if it's powerful, and it can be, right?
9:38
Kim Kelley: Not if we're just here to talk about it and pretend like thoughts and prayers are gonna make things go away, right?
9:43
Kim Kelley: Awareness in my in this realm of combating child exploitation and trafficking, awareness reduces the predator's ability to operate.
9:53
Kim Kelley: It makes it harder for bad guys to get away with doing bad things in this context to children when good people are aware and are second, you know, step one, awareness, step two, then willing to take action.
10:05
Kim Kelley: Because knowing about it, being scared of it, standing in the corner being scared of the dark, right?
10:10
Kim Kelley: No, no, no.
10:10
Kim Kelley: The point is to what?
10:12
Kim Kelley: Turn on the lights.
10:13
Kim Kelley: All right.
10:14
Kim Kelley: So back to this story.
10:16
Kim Kelley: Uh I think it was like 92, 93, the international court case, everyone's acquitted, never mind, go home.
10:21
Kim Kelley: But what it did do, well, here's what it didn't do.
10:24
Kim Kelley: It didn't rescue any children.
10:25
Kim Kelley: It didn't result in any of us like requiring an education or medical care or like the general things that most people would relate to about a childhood.
10:33
Kim Kelley: No, no, no.
10:34
Kim Kelley: No.
10:34
Kim Kelley: But what it did do is it reduced the predator's ability to operate.
10:38
Kim Kelley: So it forced the cult to pretend to be less abusive.
10:43
Kim Kelley: So they did implement this charter book, this book of rules that implemented like age minimums for bad things, so that we, in my like generation, experienced less bad things.
10:55
Kim Kelley: I was born in a very unique kind of time period because I still experienced, I was still raised in compounds with like 150 people for contact.
11:02
Kim Kelley: Like, anyway, whole lots of details I could tell about my story, lots of, lots of dark humor here, unfortunately.
11:07
Kim Kelley: The point is that I was kind of at the end of that, you know, massive compound communal living style era where a lot of things went unchecked, but also um a lot of bad things were highly encouraged.
11:21
Kim Kelley: When I was very young, those bad things were then sort of, oh, let's pretend we, you know, the narrative, just for people to understand the brainwashing, was like, you know, the Lord wants this, Jesus thinks this is what's best, and we're special, so we get to do these special things, but the public isn't ready for it, they can't handle it, they don't love Jesus like we love Jesus, so we can't tell, right?
11:40
Kim Kelley: So again, there's this whole facade.
11:42
Kim Kelley: Now I can get much more into the psychology of cults and the outer public layer, which is much like a corporate brochure versus the insider information.
11:51
Kim Kelley: I'm gonna add another very important piece of context to this story.
11:55
Kim Kelley: Like you said in my introduction, my mother decided to work her way up into a position of power within this cult.
12:02
Kim Kelley: Okay, I'm born in 89, I have siblings way before me.
12:06
Kim Kelley: My mother, who by the way, was like born and raised in Texas, she was a Dallas Cowboy cheerleader.
12:10
Kim Kelley: She was born and raised to a rather wealthy Texas family out of Dallas area.
12:14
Kim Kelley: All right, so that was her childhood.
12:16
Kim Kelley: And then, you know, I'm sure everybody experiences hard things, but otherwise, you know, she's in UT, full ride, and then decides to join a cult and do a kooky thing with her life.
12:26
Kim Kelley: All right, I can leave space for the fact that this is a free country.
12:29
Kim Kelley: And if you want to go do something kooky with your life, like, bro, free country.
12:32
Kim Kelley: Here's the line in the cement that doesn't exist and needs to.
12:36
Kim Kelley: All right.
12:36
Kim Kelley: You can't bring kids into it.
12:38
Kim Kelley: Ready?
12:39
Kim Kelley: You can go have orgies in the forest, that's fine.
12:41
Kim Kelley: You can't bring kids into it.
12:42
Kim Kelley: You can go into strip clubs, that's fine.
12:44
Kim Kelley: You can't bring kids into it.
12:45
Kim Kelley: You can raise your, you know, you can live your life like anyway, all these weird things.
12:49
Kim Kelley: You can't bring kids into it.
12:51
Kim Kelley: Specifically when we're talking about these controlled environments that don't allow access to the outside world.
12:58
Kim Kelley: Let me oversimplify that because I understand that is a crazy concept.
13:02
Kim Kelley: All right.
13:02
Kim Kelley: The analogy I use, it's like being born and raised under a rock, and you're told from day one that red is blue.
13:09
Kim Kelley: And every book you're allowed to read, every picture on the wall, every music, every song, everything that people say, every single adult and person in your entire existence reinforces this belief that red is blue.
13:20
Kim Kelley: So you grew up as a child, that's your normal, right?
13:24
Kim Kelley: Now, if you have an extensive mind like me, at a certain point you'll start asking questions and calling people out on their bullshit in little tiny ways, right?
13:30
Kim Kelley: One of the main, like, let's call it laws of every cult, like questions are certainly not encouraged.
13:35
Kim Kelley: They're certainly faced with a lot of gaslighting and take it by faith type, you know, death just because Jesus says so type thing.
13:42
Kim Kelley: But when you're really pushing for logic, you're told you can't ask questions.
13:46
Kim Kelley: You're even punished.
13:46
Kim Kelley: You're not only shamed and, you know, humiliated, you're you're punished.
13:50
Kim Kelley: Oversimplified here.
13:52
Kim Kelley: Okay, so that's how it was growing up.
13:54
Kim Kelley: Now, lots more to unpack from my childhood, unfortunately.
13:58
Kim Kelley: But just because you asked in the beginning, you know, when did I start notice things ain't quite right here, right?
14:03
Kim Kelley: Now, again, thank God for my dark humor, man.
14:06
Kim Kelley: But, you know, unfortunately, from a really young age, I had to learn to navigate people, to read patterns, to understand, you know, not if someone is harmful, but like just realize how harmful right now to me in this in this room.
14:18
Kim Kelley: You know what I mean?
14:18
Kim Kelley: Like, what exactly is gonna go on every day?
14:21
Kim Kelley: And whole other thing, I wasn't raised by my mom.
14:23
Kim Kelley: Dark humor, thank God.
14:25
Kim Kelley: But she was like off being a leader.
14:27
Kim Kelley: That's a whole other story.
14:28
Kim Kelley: Anyway, but you know, I was raised by, raised, whatever, all these random people, and everybody's a family and nobody has, you know, autonomy or individuality.
14:36
Kim Kelley: So just go with it, right?
14:38
Kim Kelley: That environment certainly doesn't foster critical thinking, much less checks and balances, right?
14:44
Kim Kelley: Much less when I and my, you know, my siblings and very few other people who were born and raised in this cult had the insight of being raised in leadership realms.
14:55
Kim Kelley: Now, that's not a flex.
14:57
Kim Kelley: To be a leader in a cult, you have to be the most crazy.
15:00
Kim Kelley: Like, you have to earn your place.
15:01
Kim Kelley: You have to, you have to earn that place.
15:04
Kim Kelley: Okay, so the children of the leaders, like, look, look, look, sometimes we lived in a better house and and you know, had some food that was less rotten, seriously, but it's not like we had it better.
15:14
Kim Kelley: It's like the leadership was extra cuckoo bananas, okay.
15:18
Kim Kelley: Leaving it there.
15:20
Kim Kelley: My mom, you know, thought it was really cool to work herself up in those ranks.
15:24
Kim Kelley: You know how they say like they sold their souls for rock and roll.
15:26
Kim Kelley: Now she like gave her soul to cult rank, anyways, whatever that is.
15:31
Kim Kelley: So yeah, it was not a safe upbringing.
15:34
Kim Kelley: You know, you're constantly navigating things.
15:35
Kim Kelley: And then, you know, additional context here, you're in a completely foreign country, which is how I grew up.
15:41
Kim Kelley: So I grew up being a foreigner everywhere, but also like being stared at, being, you know, kind of the weirdo everywhere.
15:46
Kim Kelley: So you also have to like you have to navigate the outside, which from the inside you're told is evil.
15:52
Kim Kelley: They don't like Jesus and they don't like us and they're dangerous and everybody's sad, and we're the only ones that are happy, yay, God, right?
15:58
Kim Kelley: Then from the inside, you're being told this is happy, yay, God, and love.
16:02
Kim Kelley: And it's really abuse, masked as God's love.
16:07
Kim Kelley: So unpack that.
16:09
Kim Kelley: Anyway, but thank God for my dark humor.
16:12
Kim Kelley: You know what I mean?
16:13
Kim Kelley: From a really young age, unfortunately, I had to navigate like things most adults are not equipped for.
16:19
Kim Kelley: And it did instill in me this kind of pattern recognition, this human behavior analysis.
16:26
Kim Kelley: Obviously, I didn't use any of those words at the time, right?
16:28
Kim Kelley: But then even later in my healing journey, I went through even more of that understanding and all these different deconstructing and then not reconstructing, but constructing truth, right?
16:41
Kim Kelley: From something you never had.
16:42
Kim Kelley: So deconstructing this gross manipulation of reality and then asking, what why do I believe this?
16:49
Kim Kelley: What is truth?
16:50
Kim Kelley: Okay, I think this is real.
16:52
Kim Kelley: Why do I believe this?
16:53
Kim Kelley: I was told that.
16:53
Kim Kelley: Can I fact check?
16:54
Kim Kelley: So, so my brain went through the full scientific method of comparing, you know, analyzing truth in summary.
17:01
Kim Kelley: And again, my mind's pretty wired for that.
17:03
Kim Kelley: But I was really on this quest, I wasn't searching for answers.
17:06
Kim Kelley: I'm kind of all over the place here, but all right, when I was at 20 years old, I was in Mexico.
17:11
Kim Kelley: And I'll talk more about like the process it took, because it wasn't a one-day, you know, decision to leave.
17:18
Kim Kelley: And for two, it's not like I could just leave at any time.
17:21
Kim Kelley: Like, where would I have gone?
17:22
Kim Kelley: Right?
17:23
Kim Kelley: Take eight-year-old me in Brazil.
17:24
Kim Kelley: Five-year-old me in Brazil, take 11-year-old me in Mexico.
17:28
Kim Kelley: Oh no, I was in, I was in Houston from 10 to 14.
17:30
Kim Kelley: I was in Houston.
17:31
Kim Kelley: Um, but still, take 11-year-old me in Houston.
17:33
Kim Kelley: I'm living with my parents.
17:34
Kim Kelley: Where would I?
17:34
Kim Kelley: Like, I escape, cops find me, and I'm returned to my parents, right?
17:38
Kim Kelley: Take 14-year-old, 15-year-old me in Mexico, where would I have gone if I could have physically escaped?
17:44
Kim Kelley: Like, this is one of many things people don't understand, especially, you know, from talking to a lot of survivors, there's adults that feel trapped.
17:52
Kim Kelley: And I'm not here to diminish or downplay anyone's experience.
17:55
Kim Kelley: I am saying the mind can be its own cage.
17:58
Kim Kelley: So there are adults who are not in physical captivity.
18:01
Kim Kelley: They may have a car and a cell phone and access to the outside world.
18:04
Kim Kelley: They may even have friends and families who like are offering them help.
18:07
Kim Kelley: I can't relate to any of that.
18:09
Kim Kelley: I'm just saying there are adults who feel trapped in that cage, right?
18:13
Kim Kelley: And who can't leave, for example, abusive relationships and really difficult situations for a long time.
18:18
Kim Kelley: Now, translate that to being a kid born and raised under a rock where everyone around you is evil.
18:24
Kim Kelley: And instead of a support system or a family or any kind of outside access or soft place to land, your family is a net negative in terms of support.
18:32
Kim Kelley: Like they'd they'd pray against you if you tried to leave.
18:36
Kim Kelley: You know what I mean?
18:37
Kim Kelley: So I'm really making light of this for the sake of dark humor, but all that to say, it's not like I could have just left at any time.
18:44
Kim Kelley: All right.
18:45
Kim Kelley: That being said, um, it was kind of a process of decisions.
18:50
Kim Kelley: So uh lots I could speed up here, but you know, I did start asking questions pretty young.
18:57
Kim Kelley: Like I'm talking nine, ten, I'm I'm asking hard questions.
19:00
Kim Kelley: And I remember so many moments of adults lying to my face, right?
19:04
Kim Kelley: And in my mind, I'm just trying to make sense of things.
19:06
Kim Kelley: Like I'm not even being disrespectful or counteracting the narrative.
19:10
Kim Kelley: I'm just like, wait, wait, wait.
19:11
Kim Kelley: So if this happened and this happened, but then that person was there, how did this happen here?
19:14
Kim Kelley: And they're like, oh, it's because they came back to visit.
19:17
Kim Kelley: And I was like, okay, okay.
19:18
Kim Kelley: So my head, I'm like trying to put these things together, you know.
19:21
Kim Kelley: But I've, you know, at best I get some kind of lie as an answer.
19:25
Kim Kelley: Generally, it was more just like, because you have to take it by face, you know, this like a whole other thing.
19:30
Kim Kelley: So um I was 19 years old.
19:35
Kim Kelley: I'm living in Mexico at the time.
19:36
Kim Kelley: I'm speeding up the like how I left story because it's it's not that, it's not Hollywood heroic.
19:41
Kim Kelley: It's more just for people to understand the the deprogramming, right?
19:45
Kim Kelley: How difficult we know it can be for adults, and we know how effective brainwashing can be on them.
19:49
Kim Kelley: But just translate that to a child with that with no outside world access, much less advocacy, much less like support, right?
19:58
Kim Kelley: So, um By the time I'm 19, I'm let's just, you know, speed things up.
20:03
Kim Kelley: But like I was always a very A-type personality, always like a high achiever, top earner type, right?
20:08
Kim Kelley: So the this is a pattern of many cults, but basically, like the rules bend if you bring money into it, right?
20:14
Kim Kelley: So donors who gave lots and lots of money, like, oh, rules don't really apply.
20:18
Kim Kelley: From the inside, like if you were really contributing and a top earner and making lots of money, like, oh, okay, fine, you can go make money outside.
20:25
Kim Kelley: Go, you know.
20:26
Kim Kelley: So it's not like I was gallivanting around with freedom, but I had more independence and I had a lot of trust at this point because like I was very good and I just kept my head down and did good things.
20:35
Kim Kelley: Now I realize, again, by now, like when I was a kid, things were much different, much more different than that of my siblings, right?
20:42
Kim Kelley: Fast forward to 19, like this is not maybe what people would think, like, you know, things were much better, I guess is what I'm trying to say.
20:50
Kim Kelley: There was less bad things by then.
20:52
Kim Kelley: So it's not like there was daily, you know, trauma.
20:55
Kim Kelley: Now, yes, of course, there was all kinds of religious trauma and like things people would definitely find, you know, reasons to complain for.
21:00
Kim Kelley: But I'm just saying, like, it wasn't nearly as bad to put it that way at all by the time I was 19, right?
21:05
Kim Kelley: So I had a lot more uh independence, you could say.
21:08
Kim Kelley: All that to say, I started seeing more examples from the outside world.
21:11
Kim Kelley: And again, just allowing me more access and questioning and the way my brain works, and I just got more information.
21:18
Kim Kelley: Realized we we didn't have access to the internet still.
21:21
Kim Kelley: Like this was very limited.
21:22
Kim Kelley: Okay.
21:23
Kim Kelley: I remember this one time, though, I was sitting at a dinner, and there was actually friends of mine, and I'm gonna speed this up, but there was someone who, you know, there were, I was 19, everyone was in their 30s, let's say.
21:36
Kim Kelley: Okay.
21:37
Kim Kelley: So there were maybe two or three couples that were from this cult that were like high achiever, good people, like, you know, if you were really like the best, you'd be like them, right?
21:44
Kim Kelley: And then there was this other like person who was not from the cult, and his family owned like a an English school.
21:51
Kim Kelley: And anyway, he was a successful person that was not from the cult, is my point.
21:54
Kim Kelley: Okay.
21:55
Kim Kelley: So I'm sitting there and we have this contrast, right?
21:58
Kim Kelley: But I'm just listening to the discussion, and these people are like not bragging, but what's the word, testifying about, you know, oh, these wonderful things that we've been doing.
22:07
Kim Kelley: And I'm like, they're like in their 30s with a bunch of kids, right?
22:10
Kim Kelley: Living in Mexico, but like selling posters at a gas station, right?
22:14
Kim Kelley: And they're like, oh, you sell so many posters.
22:16
Kim Kelley: And ah, and I'm looking over here and I'm like, if I continue, like best case scenario, I'm like them in 10 years, 20 years, which felt like an eternity for me because realized being raised in apocalyptic cult means being raised like you're not going to grow up because Jesus is coming back.
22:32
Kim Kelley: So we don't need an education.
22:33
Kim Kelley: You know what I mean?
22:34
Kim Kelley: That's literally anyway, explains a lot about the overall thought process, I guess.
22:40
Kim Kelley: So all that to say, that was kind of my big like contrast moment.
22:44
Kim Kelley: But beyond that, which I really remember, like it was a series of questions and not getting answers, and there was a lot of emotion involved because I literally felt like I was leaving God's highest will because of all the ingrainment, right?
22:54
Kim Kelley: Um, I really just saw a way out.
22:57
Kim Kelley: And it's again, it's not not this heroic of a story, but I was in Guadalajara, Mexico, which is about 10 hours south of Monterey.
23:04
Kim Kelley: Um, I told the place I was staying that I was like gonna go on a trip and come back.
23:09
Kim Kelley: So I put all my stuff on this bus in Mexico, this overnight bus.
23:13
Kim Kelley: All my stuff, like two suitcases of my stuff, um, on a bus, took an overnight bus to Monterey, where these friends of mine lived and had offered me a job.
23:22
Kim Kelley: Like I they offered me a job and I just took it.
23:24
Kim Kelley: Like I had a place to go.
23:25
Kim Kelley: That was that was, you know, I had step one and that I'll figure out the rest.
23:29
Kim Kelley: I literally took an overnight bus, started working the next day, my first like actual job.
23:34
Kim Kelley: I've worked my whole life, but I'm saying like official job, legitimate job, whatever you want to call that.
23:40
Kim Kelley: Um, yeah, so I've really just hit the ground running again.
23:43
Kim Kelley: You know, it's not like there's any support system or figuring out life, or like you don't really exist on paper.
23:47
Kim Kelley: Now I was still living in Mexico, which was home to me at the time.
23:51
Kim Kelley: So it was anyway, that there's some positives in kind of being the foreigner everywhere because I don't know, you're like more of an exotic bird, and people ask less specific questions, you could say.
24:01
Kim Kelley: So it's kind of easy for me to navigate that.
24:03
Kim Kelley: Um, speeding it up.
24:04
Kim Kelley: I moved to the US about a year later.
24:06
Kim Kelley: I had a sister who was living in Texas, so I stayed with her for a few months and then got my own place and just started multiple businesses.
24:12
Kim Kelley: And like I honestly just hit the ground running.
24:14
Kim Kelley: I worked hard, which is, you know, ingrained in me, you could say, dark humor, but like I've really strong work ethic.
24:19
Kim Kelley: Um, yeah, so that was the first getting out of it, right?
24:25
Kim Kelley: Now we can talk more about this.
24:27
Kim Kelley: I know I'm kind of painting a broad brush here, but fast forward about 10 years later, it was maybe nine years later, I was running multiple businesses, I was doing really good things, things I'm very proud of.
24:38
Kim Kelley: And again, like I have all kinds of peers that chose all different kinds of paths or had to survive in different ways.
24:43
Kim Kelley: And like, I'm glad I never had to do that, right?
24:45
Kim Kelley: I'm not above having to survive.
24:47
Kim Kelley: I'm just saying I'm glad I never had to do something that I really didn't, I don't know, feel comfortable with, I guess.
24:54
Kim Kelley: But I was definitely scrappy.
24:55
Kim Kelley: Like I was definitely just making it happen out there.
24:57
Kim Kelley: So fast forward, it's like 2019.
25:00
Kim Kelley: I had a sports apparel company and we did a bunch of different um awareness campaigns for different good causes, and we donate the proceeds to nonprofits.
25:07
Kim Kelley: And I'm very skeptical of nonprofits, as everyone should be.
25:10
Kim Kelley: So I would do a lot to research who we're giving this money to and what they're doing with it to make sure it's a worthy cause.
25:15
Kim Kelley: So, you know, breast cancer awareness and autism and PTSD and all these really good causes.
25:19
Kim Kelley: We started working on the cause of the missing and murdered indigenous women at the time.
25:24
Kim Kelley: It's a whole other thing, but we did a lot in the Native American sector with First Nations, et cetera.
25:28
Kim Kelley: So this came about, this came into my awareness at that time.
25:32
Kim Kelley: I'm 29.
25:34
Kim Kelley: And again, you know, I'm just working, like I had done a lot of personal healing, but again, my wiring is more like I was just, you could definitely say numbing for sure, right?
25:43
Kim Kelley: Like I had done a lot of healing, but I was more just like overfunctioning, if you will.
25:48
Kim Kelley: Anyway, this cause of, you know, one in four Native American First Nations women and children are missing, murdered, or bad things.
25:56
Kim Kelley: And that hit me like, what?
26:00
Kim Kelley: Like it was the first time I had heard of that, right?
26:03
Kim Kelley: I had seen so many bad things far, far away.
26:05
Kim Kelley: I knew what I had escaped, but for context, like no one unless you were rage with me knew this about my past.
26:10
Kim Kelley: I was just Kim, like, you know, you would never have known this about me.
26:14
Kim Kelley: There was definitely a lot of shame still because you just kind of want to brush that under the rug, like, oh, that's some weird thing, and the work's gonna hope no one finds that out about me, right?
26:22
Kim Kelley: That being said, I kind of this 360 moment where I saw this as a pervasive issue today, number one.
26:31
Kim Kelley: I was like, what the fuck?
26:32
Kim Kelley: But then I was like, why is no one talking about this?
26:34
Kim Kelley: Like it lit this hell no moment in me.
26:37
Kim Kelley: And realized, like, I'm not, I've I've I was never before, you know, associated with First Nations people.
26:42
Kim Kelley: So it wasn't, it felt personal, but it wasn't like, you know, it didn't have to be that personal to me.
26:47
Kim Kelley: It just, it was just this hell no moment.
26:50
Kim Kelley: So again, I'm speeding up that story, but we worked with different people, found out more about that problem, and I understood more about the systemic corruption that supports and protects that type of corruption.
27:01
Kim Kelley: And to me, to me, it is the darkest form of evil to not only the most cowardly, let's be real, abusing vulnerable people, women and children to that extent, right?
27:12
Kim Kelley: Definitely the most cowardly form of evil, but it's also the darkest because it takes a lot of, you know, even really bad guys don't cross that line.
27:21
Kim Kelley: And you gotta be a really different kind of psycho to do that.
27:23
Kim Kelley: So it just kind of started unraveling for me.
27:28
Kim Kelley: Fast forward a year later, you know, it expanded, like I saw the even bigger picture about the pervasive issue of child exploitation in general in the United States, the systems that protect it, but then also the on a spectrum of intensity, the way darker stuff that's even like the trafficking of children, which is even more, you know, this whole other realm of things.
27:46
Kim Kelley: So speeding up the story again, there was one day when I was looking for nonprofits to support.
27:51
Kim Kelley: Okay.
27:51
Kim Kelley: I wasn't looking for dark, scary, bad information.
27:54
Kim Kelley: I wasn't researching bad things.
27:56
Kim Kelley: I was looking at who's part of the good.
27:58
Kim Kelley: And unfortunately, that was really hard to find.
27:59
Kim Kelley: We'll get back to that.
28:00
Kim Kelley: Very hard to find people that are actually doing what they say in this world of combating exploitation, trafficking.
28:05
Kim Kelley: A lot of people exploiting that problem.
28:08
Kim Kelley: Anyway, when I was looking through this information, there was a lot of triggering moments throughout the day, and that's not typical for me, right?
28:15
Kim Kelley: I'm not afraid of that, but it just wasn't normal to have a lot of emotional reactions, even to the point of crying sometimes.
28:21
Kim Kelley: And I was like, what is all this?
28:23
Kim Kelley: So later that night I was unwinding from the day, and I remember this moment so clearly.
28:28
Kim Kelley: I'm swimming in my pool and I'm just like, you know, unwinding and I'm going through things, and it occurs to me in that moment.
28:34
Kim Kelley: Like I remember swimming and I like stopped and like stopped, and I was like, oh my God, that's what it was.
28:39
Kim Kelley: We were trafficked.
28:41
Kim Kelley: That's when that we obviously we had never used that term, and that term hadn't really been used for humans, you know, in in until more recently.
28:50
Kim Kelley: It was just not something I had ever put together, but it's like I that's when I realized there was no closure in that, but there was truth.
28:58
Kim Kelley: There was at least an understanding, right?
29:00
Kim Kelley: And it just hit me like the again, there's no justifiable reason for why would someone do that to children and then to their own children and then to other children.
29:10
Kim Kelley: You know, there's no justifiable reason, but it did answer that question, if that makes sense.
29:16
Kim Kelley: So again, uh, you know, lots to unpack from this story, but abuse is almost never framed as abuse.
29:21
Kim Kelley: Whether you're a child or an adult, generally the person doing a bad thing, we're talking abuse, we're not talking mistakes or you know, bad choices or a word that we didn't mean to say.
29:30
Kim Kelley: No, we're talking abuse is never going to be masked as abuse, generally, right?
29:38
Kim Kelley: Depending on the situation, predators are generally very strategic.
29:43
Kim Kelley: And again, they target vulnerabilities.
29:47
Kim Kelley: So I really want to unpack more about the patterns and the psychology, because I get big on that, and that you can probably understand why.
29:53
Kim Kelley: Um, but just to kind of put a full bow on it, again, I left, you know, I sped up so much as you can imagine.
29:58
Kim Kelley: But what I do today, um, all right, well, let's back up a little bit.
30:02
Kim Kelley: So at the time I'm 30 years old, I'm seeking nonprofits that that are actually part of the solution, that are actually doing something helpful, not just like awareness and whatever that means if you're not doing anything, but then also like who's actually doing something meaningful that is tangible, because I really want to like actually support them, right?
30:18
Kim Kelley: So I started working with a variety of nonprofits.
30:21
Kim Kelley: I supported, worked with, consulted, volunteered for, etc., lots and lots of different NGOs, non-government organizations or nonprofits for years.
30:31
Kim Kelley: And again, it was more and more of understanding the problem and the solutions.
30:35
Kim Kelley: The short version is it's not a one-size-fits-all problem.
30:38
Kim Kelley: There are not one size fits all solutions.
30:40
Kim Kelley: There are also a lot of people with bias who are not subject matter experts, who are not trauma-informed, who do not understand the problem.
30:47
Kim Kelley: There are also a lot of people profiting from these band-aids they're perpetuating that are not solutions.
30:53
Kim Kelley: There are also a lot of people profiting from all the symptoms that those band-aids.
30:56
Kim Kelley: All right.
30:56
Kim Kelley: So you get the point.
30:57
Kim Kelley: There's a lot of complications and a lot of corruption in this world.
31:00
Kim Kelley: There's a lot of people living in fear.
31:02
Kim Kelley: There's a lot of people too cowardly to call it out.
31:05
Kim Kelley: And, you know, at the beginning, I was really like just trying to get everyone to do their job.
31:09
Kim Kelley: That was my naive little strategy, is that I could just kind of assist all the people that should be helping because they're very qualified to do so.
31:14
Kim Kelley: We've got a lot of resources, and this is a stupid problem to have.
31:17
Kim Kelley: That was literally my, you know, my viewpoint.
31:20
Kim Kelley: I found out so much, even, you know, beyond what I had experienced in my childhood, just the amount of corruption and people pretending to be part of the solution, all the layers involved.
31:32
Kim Kelley: So, you know, no one nobody has all the answers, but I do feel like I have a good understanding of this problem and the multiple layers, as well as the solutions that are actually effective in multiple realms because we need layered solutions.
31:47
Kim Kelley: So I'm talking from the digital realm to the law enforcement training, real-world tactics realm to the policies and lawmakers and why are they making the decisions if they don't understand this problem to how we care for survivors and aftercare and trauma reform informed recovery and lots and lots more.
32:03
Kim Kelley: So, um, among many things, I founded a nonprofit, not because we need another one, but because I wanted to unite the experts to actually solve problems.
32:13
Kim Kelley: For the avoidance of doubt, I've never fundraised.
32:15
Kim Kelley: It's not one of those 501c3s, no one takes a salary, et cetera.
32:18
Kim Kelley: I do have a really awesome board of advisors.
32:20
Kim Kelley: Like I work with some incredible people.
32:21
Kim Kelley: None of this is about performative activism or fundraising, which is most nonprofits.
32:26
Kim Kelley: It's all about real world solving problems.
32:29
Kim Kelley: So I also work at the Ranch, Texas.
32:32
Kim Kelley: It's a tactical training facility.
32:33
Kim Kelley: It's a it's long story short, man, this place has a lot of history.
32:37
Kim Kelley: It's in southern Texas.
32:38
Kim Kelley: It's about an hour north of the border, an hour south of San Antonio.
32:42
Kim Kelley: Used to be a Blackwater site.
32:43
Kim Kelley: Lots of all the OGAs and et cetera, lots and lots of really incredible history here.
32:50
Kim Kelley: That being said, we work with all government agencies, uh, federal, local, state law enforcement, we have a lot of different first responders, as well as all the branches of the military.
32:58
Kim Kelley: So it's a tactical training facility.
33:00
Kim Kelley: We also do some programs for civilians.
33:03
Kim Kelley: But the long story short is it's an honor now to be able to not only train the protectors who should have the training and resources to actually be effective, but also be embedded in a way where I can help them get started and stand up these sting operations and then help that be effective, but then also not be not work for the government in a way where, as a petite smiley female who's also a civilian and doesn't give a fuck, I can walk in and make it very embarrassing for any politician who's in the way, or these nonprofits that are really not doing what they say, but they're collecting millions of dollars, or the well-meaning people that simply don't understand the problem, right?
33:40
Kim Kelley: So I'm kind of you I'm uniquely positioned.
33:43
Kim Kelley: I definitely accept that now.
33:44
Kim Kelley: At the beginning, I was like, why me?
33:46
Kim Kelley: Now I still laugh about it, but it's, you know, I get it now, and I've fully accepted this mission.
33:53
Kim Kelley: So that's the summary.
33:55
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: That is I mean, it's just incredible.
33:58
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I mean to be able to go from where you were born into all the different I I totally understand the words.
34:11
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Like we don't say the word trafficking.
34:13
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: We we we don't use these other words.
34:16
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: They're we we say, oh we were we went out and watched movies, or we went and did something something that's like, oh well they're just hanging out, and it's like, well, okay, well what's a hanging out look like?
34:32
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And then as you dig down into those deeper layers, it's like well there's there's something very, very wrong that is going on.
34:43
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And thank you for what you're doing because uh it's it's people like you obviously we need more of in the world, um, and the fact that you're bringing all those kind of components of society together to help because you you were there, so you realized all the different like you said, all the different layers that uh are are there that you can't just stop at.
35:15
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Okay, awareness is great, but what are we doing after that?
35:20
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Let's let's do some action, not just oh well.
35:25
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: This is the hot topic of the day or the year or whatever it's like oh mental health, and so let me jump on that bandwagon.
35:35
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And um it's like no shirts aren't saving children, action would yes, yes, and that's that's where we're we're at and trying to get to as an organization, which we do a ton of awareness, and now we're able to by bringing individuals like you on the show, like David on the show, and and many others uh talking about literally being a survivor, and getting out isn't the easiest thing to do.
36:11
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: As as you mentioned, all the other layers of being in a different country, and if you were to get out, where would they take you?
36:20
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Well, they would take you right back where the abuse was was happening, and uh that's something that I didn't even think of until you brought it up.
36:28
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I was just like, oh well, go find uh you know a safe relative or somebody, and that's not always the case, and especially in uh a different country that has different laws and norms, and uh the the ranch, uh just looking at the the videos, I mean from the tactical indoor part, and then with the the the cars, like the the all parts of that of the the different stink operation pieces, the it's really incredible the uh and I think more people need to know.
37:11
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: I mean more people will know after our our shows, obviously, but uh more people need to know that it's it's it's a resource, and you don't have to just be in a certain part of the country to take advantage of these resources.
37:27
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh a lot of people probably don't even know to even exist.
37:31
Kim Kelley: Yeah, absolutely.
37:32
Kim Kelley: So just to explain a little bit more about the ranch, because it, you know, it's not to promo, even though, like, yeah, y'all should come check it out.
37:38
Kim Kelley: It's more to help people understand the gaps we're filling.
37:41
Kim Kelley: Because again, a lot of well-meaning, intelligent people in the public are, I think it's intentional that this information is so suppressed, etc., scandalized.
37:50
Kim Kelley: That's a different topic.
37:51
Kim Kelley: But a lot of people, you know, you don't know what you don't know.
37:53
Kim Kelley: So what doesn't okay, let's talk about law enforcement training because a lot of people that are not in this realm, as I was not until recently, right, don't understand law enforcement does not have the training that they should have.
38:05
Kim Kelley: You would be very uncomfortable if you knew how little they train for the big decisions we want them to make very well when they're under pressure and lives are at stake.
38:13
Kim Kelley: Like, full stop.
38:14
Kim Kelley: Law enforcement training in general is a huge gap that if we had better resources and better training, we would have less people suffering.
38:22
Kim Kelley: That's like the shortest way I can say it.
38:24
Kim Kelley: And I can defend that for hours if we'd like.
38:27
Kim Kelley: All right.
38:27
Kim Kelley: Now, what I knew very clearly after very few years of working, doing some junior undercovered sting ops with law enforcement things is how much they weren't trained to combat child exploitation and trafficking and all these other realms.
38:42
Kim Kelley: Okay, now let's break that down real quick because there's a lot of, you know, prevention that's needed.
38:46
Kim Kelley: There's a lot of law, laws that are not, well, okay, I'm never going to take the responsibility away from the elected officials whose job it is to protect and serve.
38:54
Kim Kelley: So just understand that like the corruption generally comes from top down.
38:58
Kim Kelley: So when resources are not allocated correctly, when, you know, budgets and training and facilities, all these kinds of things.
39:05
Kim Kelley: But then when laws are not enforced, when there's corruption at high levels where bad guys don't get prosecuted or good guys look the other way why bad while bad guys do bad things, right?
39:15
Kim Kelley: I need people to understand that law enforcement is the sharp end of the sword.
39:19
Kim Kelley: It's the tip of the spear.
39:20
Kim Kelley: We're talking, let's just talk about local police, you know, because this goes all the way up to like federal agencies, right?
39:26
Kim Kelley: But like law enforcement, generally speaking, is the sharp end of the sword.
39:30
Kim Kelley: Now people see the damage that does, and nobody's here to deny that that does all kinds of damage, right?
39:35
Kim Kelley: However, the person determining the direction and the intensity of the damage is the hand wielding the sword.
39:42
Kim Kelley: Most people don't even understand who's wielding this sword.
39:48
Kim Kelley: They don't know all the hands involved or how that works and all the politics and policies that are in the way of progress.
39:54
Kim Kelley: Really trying to be so nice with my words here, okay?
39:57
Kim Kelley: You can just tell I'm very sarcastic.
39:59
Kim Kelley: Sarcastic, dark humor, because I can't take any of this corruption seriously.
40:02
Kim Kelley: It's really quite ridiculous.
40:03
Kim Kelley: All right.
40:04
Kim Kelley: So, all that to say, I hope that makes sense for people to understand.
40:06
Kim Kelley: A lot of times cops are seen as the bad guys.
40:08
Kim Kelley: And I'm not here to defend the corrupt cops.
40:10
Kim Kelley: I'm here to say there are a lot of problems in that realm.
40:13
Kim Kelley: And I go to where problems are.
40:15
Kim Kelley: So the difference between me and most people who complain about problems is I'm actually stepping in to help, right?
40:20
Kim Kelley: I get a lot of flack from people who don't know a lot about what they're talking about.
40:24
Kim Kelley: I can't believe you're working with law enforcement.
40:26
Kim Kelley: You're training the devil.
40:26
Kim Kelley: And I'm like, God bless you very much.
40:28
Kim Kelley: We could allow this fire to continue festing, festering.
40:30
Kim Kelley: Would that be better?
40:31
Kim Kelley: No, we should step in.
40:33
Kim Kelley: Okay.
40:34
Kim Kelley: Yeah, let's step in to try to solve problems, right?
40:36
Kim Kelley: But I really want people to understand that it's, you know, it's generally the leadership that blocks the good things from happening.
40:44
Kim Kelley: Okay.
40:44
Kim Kelley: To say it nicely and in summary.
40:46
Kim Kelley: So here at the ranch, beyond, you know, actually real world training, that's actually a higher standard than most.
40:53
Kim Kelley: This is a tier one training facility.
40:54
Kim Kelley: Like, look, in the all overall world of trading, no one's, no one who knows what they're talking about is just gonna disagree with me.
41:01
Kim Kelley: There's a lot of BS out there and, you know, people on YouTube, et cetera.
41:04
Kim Kelley: And like, that's not real world actual tactics.
41:06
Kim Kelley: That's that's not best practices at all.
41:08
Kim Kelley: So very high standard of training across the board, like you mentioned, from vehicle mobility and driving to, you know, we have the mount side and the shoot house and all these the sniper tower, like all these world-class facilities for generally, you know, tactics training.
41:19
Kim Kelley: There's nothing you can't do here.
41:21
Kim Kelley: Then um, we are also a TQL-accredited facility, which in Texas is the accreditation law enforcement needs to get hours that count towards their requirements.
41:29
Kim Kelley: So we also do anti-TQL-accredited anti-trafficking training programs for law enforcement.
41:36
Kim Kelley: So, for people to understand more about what I'm talking about, here's the summary, right?
41:40
Kim Kelley: Everyone, we're talking law enforcement, everyone needs the fundamentals, what trafficking is and is not.
41:46
Kim Kelley: Most, if anyone does say in law enforcement that they get some kind of annual training, it's very rare that that training is actually helpful.
41:55
Kim Kelley: Let me explain.
41:56
Kim Kelley: Generally, they're talking about, and it's generally that led by very well-funded nonprofits who are calling themselves anti-trafficking.
42:03
Kim Kelley: Really, they're just talking about sex workers.
42:07
Kim Kelley: Or they're anti-porn or they're anti-sex work.
42:12
Kim Kelley: But when they give law enforcement this training, right, when we're talking about sex workers, that is not the same thing.
42:18
Kim Kelley: Let me let me let me make something real clear.
42:20
Kim Kelley: Obviously, adults can absolutely be exploited.
42:22
Kim Kelley: Obviously, there's a lot of crossover, meaning there can be overlap in the world of signing up to do something like sex work.
42:29
Kim Kelley: Maybe you love it, maybe you don't want to, but that's your last chance, uh, your last resort.
42:33
Kim Kelley: My point is there's a very big difference in signing up for something.
42:37
Kim Kelley: And some people say they love it.
42:39
Kim Kelley: And then some people, for sure, it can become abusive or exploitation or something you did not sign up for, right?
42:45
Kim Kelley: We're talking about adults in this realm, obviously.
42:47
Kim Kelley: There's a big difference between that and someone being trafficked.
42:51
Kim Kelley: Now, can this bleed over into this?
42:53
Kim Kelley: Yes, of course, it can become exploitation, right?
42:56
Kim Kelley: You can think you're going to a modeling agency and then, ooh, all of a sudden things you didn't like, and now you're okay.
43:00
Kim Kelley: That can happen, right?
43:02
Kim Kelley: Very different though.
43:03
Kim Kelley: Sex work and sex trafficking are not the same thing.
43:06
Kim Kelley: Fight me.
43:07
Kim Kelley: I'll I'll debate that all day.
43:09
Kim Kelley: The reason this matters is not because I'm here to protect sex workers.
43:12
Kim Kelley: I'm here to protect the innocent, so for sure.
43:14
Kim Kelley: But I'm just saying, like, I'm definitely not anti-sex workers.
43:17
Kim Kelley: I know too much.
43:18
Kim Kelley: I have too many siblings and peers who had that as their only resort when they escaped a cult.
43:23
Kim Kelley: So I actually do get pretty impassioned about this.
43:25
Kim Kelley: Just realized, like, I would have no shame in admitting that I, you know, did stripping or something like that.
43:30
Kim Kelley: I just didn't have to, and I'm very grateful for that.
43:32
Kim Kelley: But I am willing to fight to the death for people who have an entire, you know, it's just that they call sex work anti-trafficking, and ooh, that's a whole problem for many reasons, but they're raising millions of dollars in the name of protecting the innocent.
43:46
Kim Kelley: If we're giving law enforcement the wrong information that's not helping them find the real victims, then we're failing the real victims.
43:52
Kim Kelley: We're also probably just harassing sex workers, and cops are already sick of arresting the same pimps and hoes, right?
43:58
Kim Kelley: But those sex workers are just trying to make a living or survive, but we're not helping them either.
44:02
Kim Kelley: Okay.
44:03
Kim Kelley: The real problem, though, again, like we are missing the real point.
44:06
Kim Kelley: We are barking up the wrong tree, if you will.
44:09
Kim Kelley: And the real victims, the real traffickers, the real crimes are not being addressed.
44:13
Kim Kelley: So policies don't fit this.
44:15
Kim Kelley: They're looking at this, right?
44:17
Kim Kelley: The psychology, the survivor-informed care.
44:20
Kim Kelley: If we are treating trafficking victims like we treat sex workers, or vice versa, that's not helping anybody, right?
44:28
Kim Kelley: So a whole lot more I could say there.
44:30
Kim Kelley: But generally, any training that law enforcement does get about trafficking is really just talking about sex work.
44:37
Kim Kelley: And that is, you know, just not the same body of water.
44:40
Kim Kelley: Okay.
44:40
Kim Kelley: Very ineffective for a lot of reasons.
44:42
Kim Kelley: So the anti-trafficking training.
44:45
Kim Kelley: We, everybody needs this fundamentals, correct the premise.
44:47
Kim Kelley: I've literally spoken to maybe three people ever in law enforcement that I didn't need to give the fundamentals to, because they actually like did this for the last 20 years.
44:55
Kim Kelley: Okay.
44:55
Kim Kelley: Everybody needs this.
44:56
Kim Kelley: And I'm talking like to me, 101 and to law enforcement, blows their mind because nobody's saying this.
45:03
Kim Kelley: Nobody's talking about this.
45:04
Kim Kelley: Okay, that's how that's how that is.
45:06
Kim Kelley: All right.
45:06
Kim Kelley: Then beyond the fundamentals, once we have corrected the premise, then we do specialized training.
45:10
Kim Kelley: Why?
45:11
Kim Kelley: Because we have lots of charts and data.
45:13
Kim Kelley: We're not here to make more pretty charts.
45:15
Kim Kelley: No.
45:16
Kim Kelley: The ICAC detective guy, the guy who works in internet crimes against children, is going to need very different training and information than the SWAT guy who just has to, you know, kick in the door and rescue the kid.
45:25
Kim Kelley: Okay.
45:25
Kim Kelley: Very different types of Intel training and overall protocols here.
45:30
Kim Kelley: So we don't need to waste time giving this general brushstroke.
45:34
Kim Kelley: We need to be very specialized so that our tactics, policies, and SOP and all the different aftercare aspects of this can be effective.
45:41
Kim Kelley: But also now we are all more cohesive.
45:44
Kim Kelley: It's a very summarized version of what we're able to achieve here.
45:48
Kim Kelley: So beyond that, like I mentioned, I have a nonprofit.
45:51
Kim Kelley: Um, we haven't fully started doing this yet because I've never done any fundraising.
45:55
Kim Kelley: But because we have the facility, right?
45:59
Kim Kelley: If we get, you know, XYZ donated for training law enforcement, because that's like one of my big things is to increase training for law enforcement because our frontline protectors could be much more helpful in this fight.
46:10
Kim Kelley: It goes direct.
46:11
Kim Kelley: The point is that it doesn't get dissoluted in any salaries or, you know, operational expenses, et cetera.
46:16
Kim Kelley: We can not only be completely transparent, show you like exactly the type of training and the instructors and how many hours and who, how many departments and units and all the different things.
46:23
Kim Kelley: We can show you outcomes beyond that, right?
46:26
Kim Kelley: It's just refreshing to work with the real people, is the long story short, because I've unfortunately had to wade through a lot of well-positioned, well-funded, big talking people and organizations that are very well positioned to be part of the solution.
46:41
Kim Kelley: And unfortunately, I just saw a lot of exploiting of this problem.
46:46
Kim Kelley: So as you can tell, um, I don't know, I'm just not afraid to call it out and stand for truth.
46:51
Kim Kelley: And I might be a little like a little psycho for the truth, you could even say, right?
46:57
Kim Kelley: Because, yeah, because to me it matters, but it's also like you could even call it a trigger or a, you know, uh it lights something inside me because I can tell when people are lying.
47:07
Kim Kelley: Like, oh, please try to manipulate me.
47:09
Kim Kelley: I was born and raised in a cult.
47:10
Kim Kelley: Try.
47:10
Kim Kelley: You know what I mean?
47:12
Kim Kelley: Um, and coming from a petite smiley female, people tend to underestimate that, which I very much enjoy.
47:16
Kim Kelley: But yeah, all that to say, you know, it's been very cool working with the real ones and you know, a lot of these unsung heroes that the public will never hear about, a lot of these operations and these things that like the public will never hear about, but for one, because that's how the real work is.
47:31
Kim Kelley: But for two, because like no one's here for the credit or the recognition or the, you know, no one's fundraising on these results.
47:38
Kim Kelley: So we just get to do the real work and you end up meeting the real people that way.
47:43
Kim Kelley: Because the fake ones that are there for the power and the prophets can't hang.
47:46
Kim Kelley: You know, I mean, they're like, wait, how do we make money?
47:47
Kim Kelley: No.
47:48
Kim Kelley: So, you know, we're really we're able to do some real things.
47:51
Kim Kelley: And when it's survivor-informed training, you know, when you're able to also assist with vetting, for example, the aftercare facilities and the trauma-informed, you know, protocols, et cetera, and create modalities for what's helpful and what's not for different types of childhood trauma, like what we're what situations we're rescuing them from.
48:10
Kim Kelley: Trauma-informed just means the individualized response.
48:13
Kim Kelley: It means not a one size fits all, it means what's actually helpful for this individual in this situation right now.
48:21
Kim Kelley: So it's a it's an honor to be part of all of this.
48:24
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Absolutely.
48:25
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: It's it's it's so impressive to hear and refreshing use that word too.
48:32
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: But it is, it's it's refreshing to hear the nuts and bolts of what's actually going on because there is a lot of lip service of well, we want to do this and we're doing this, and but we're only kind of over here, we're not actually where the things happen or the people in in the way you you mentioned.
48:54
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Law enforcement, they need to make split-second decisions, and and they need to be prepared as best as possible for those.
49:04
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And the best way is through repetition and practice and having those options uh available, not just oh, go take this e-learning course.
49:16
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: That you know, there's 10 questions at the end, you get your certificate, and okay, I did my training.
49:23
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: It's the real deal.
49:25
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Uh, people that are really making the the difference, and they I gotta pick you back off what you said.
49:34
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: That uh they they don't care about the credit, they they just love helping people, and I I think that's uh what I'm picking up from the work that you have done and that you are doing that that's kind of overarching that you want to help people no matter where they're at, you don't want one group to be helped and not another, you and you don't want just that awareness, you want that action that goes along with it, and I am uh grateful that you uh wanted to come on the show and share because uh I love learning and and this is so informative and opens my eyes a lot to what is out there and what's not out there, and that some of the things we think are like, oh well, there's you know corrupt people all over the place, and and it comes from the top down, as opposed to thinking that it might be like some lower level manager or lower lower level and going, oh, they're they're the ones that are actually stopping us from doing this.
50:46
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: It's no, it's who's creating the budgets, where's the money coming from?
50:50
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And oh, sorry, well, we can't do this, or we just want to be lazy and let's just do the same thing that we've always done.
50:58
Kim Kelley: And um, I have a theory that they count on us not understanding the system because it allows them to continue getting away with doing bad things, and again, that's where awareness can be powerful.
51:10
Kim Kelley: Um, I just want to highlight, you know, touch on something you said that I want people to kind of I want people to understand the severity of what we're talking about here, okay?
51:19
Kim Kelley: So to quantify this issue.
51:21
Kim Kelley: Normally I do when I'm public speaking, I like walk people through the, you know, a few things and kind of spoon feed them a little bit more to get to this point.
51:28
Kim Kelley: And then we we're quantifying it now.
51:29
Kim Kelley: We're saying, okay, let's understand what hum what trafficking is, okay, on a global level.
51:34
Kim Kelley: Trafficking can mean a lot of things, guns, you know, arms, drugs, narcotics, and humans and all the different things.
51:39
Kim Kelley: Okay, narrow that down to human trafficking.
51:41
Kim Kelley: Okay, oversimplified.
51:42
Kim Kelley: It's the sale and exploitation of humans.
51:45
Kim Kelley: That can be done in many different ways.
51:46
Kim Kelley: Labor, organ trafficking, sex trafficking, okay.
51:49
Kim Kelley: Narrow that down to child trafficking globally still.
51:53
Kim Kelley: A lot of different ways children can, you know, labor and or a lot of the different realms still apply.
51:58
Kim Kelley: Now narrow that down to the United States.
52:00
Kim Kelley: All the different ways children are trafficked in the United States, narrow that down to child sex trafficking in the United States.
52:06
Kim Kelley: We're not even talking about labor and all these other things.
52:09
Kim Kelley: Okay.
52:10
Kim Kelley: A few years ago, it was confirmed that child sex trafficking generates at least $50 billion every year in the United States alone.
52:18
Kim Kelley: That's more than all professional sports combined.
52:22
Kim Kelley: $50 billion every single year.
52:24
Kim Kelley: We don't see it.
52:25
Kim Kelley: We see all these sports and the marketing and the merchandise and the events and this.
52:28
Kim Kelley: It'd be weird, right, for someone to call that a theory to your face, but we don't see child trafficking.
52:33
Kim Kelley: So a lot of people are willing to look past it or call it a theory to your face, which is embarrassing for them when they try to do that to me.
52:39
Kim Kelley: But this is why we're rocking them into the truth, right?
52:41
Kim Kelley: So now let's continue quantifying it though.
52:43
Kim Kelley: So once we've understood what this is, we're talking about the sale and exploitation, not just child abuse.
52:49
Kim Kelley: There's a whole nasty spectrum of bad things.
52:50
Kim Kelley: No, we're specifically to all of abuse is bad things, right?
52:54
Kim Kelley: All of trafficking is abuse, not all abuse is trafficking.
52:57
Kim Kelley: Okay, separate spectrum of child trafficking, spectrum of intensity there.
53:01
Kim Kelley: All that to say a few years ago it was 50 billion.
53:05
Kim Kelley: Recently it was confirmed at 76 billion, real quick.
53:10
Kim Kelley: We are talking about reported data.
53:12
Kim Kelley: Traffickers don't file taxes.
53:14
Kim Kelley: Y'all, we're talking about barely scratching the tip of the iceberg at $76 billion every year.
53:19
Kim Kelley: How many kids is that?
53:20
Kim Kelley: Okay, it's also the second growing, second largest and fastest growing criminal enterprise on the planet.
53:29
Kim Kelley: That is also the answer to all my rhetorical questions.
53:35
Kim Kelley: Why don't we have a federal agency that's dedicated to combating human trafficking in the US?
53:40
Kim Kelley: We have an agency for education and water and all these other things.
53:45
Kim Kelley: Go on dot dot gov websites.
53:48
Kim Kelley: Why don't we have one agency ready that's pretending to combat human trafficking?
53:54
Kim Kelley: All the war on drugs nonsense that they've gotten votes for, no one's even pretending to care.
53:59
Kim Kelley: Okay, so next question, because I could go on, media's not talking about it, politicians are silent about okay, is that incompetence or intentional?
54:07
Kim Kelley: Would it be thriving without the intentional support and protection that it's enjoying?
54:14
Kim Kelley: Is it that incompetent?
54:16
Kim Kelley: Because either way, it's unacceptable.
54:17
Kim Kelley: But we need to ask ourselves to unpack this logic because we need to be willing to see the truth for what it is, not what we want it to be.
54:24
Kim Kelley: This is a gross, heinous crime, and it's thriving in our country.
54:27
Kim Kelley: Are we too cowardly to address it?
54:29
Kim Kelley: Why?
54:31
Kim Kelley: I have so many more questions, but I want people to unpack that logic for themselves because I am way too chill about how bad this issue is, and people need to understand not only the problems, but how rampant this corruption is, so that we can understand what is and what is not the solution.
54:48
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: And I think one thing that I've started to learn is this isn't just happening in third world countries.
55:00
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Now you were born into a cult and had some move movement around in countries, but as you're mentioning, that these are things that are happening right here in the United States that someone in a person's neighborhood like could be literally a part of it, funding it, having Lord knows what ties to it, and I think that's the part when I guess that's that's the first thing, and then the second thing is when people tie Jesus and the Lord and doing the Lord's work, and we don't call it trafficking something else, and you know, we chloroform somebody and took them.
55:51
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: That was just because you know the we wanted to hang out and and uh for a couple weeks and go across the border to Canada and and then you know push all the reports that trafficking never happens, so it's again it's people across the the spectrum, and I and I'm with you that there uh there are just like with any profession, there's there's good people and not so good people, and you can spend your time helping the problem get better, or just put putting it in the back of the mind and pretending it's not even there.
56:34
Kim Kelley: Yeah.
56:34
Kim Kelley: Honestly, if this problem wasn't still thriving today, like I would I moved so far on that I was not even thinking about this, you know what I mean?
56:42
Kim Kelley: Not even selfishly, like in a healthy way.
56:45
Kim Kelley: I had completely just completely moved on and redesigned my life.
56:48
Kim Kelley: I would not have done this whole 180 if I wasn't confronted with it and I actually tried to escape that calling for a couple years and that didn't work well, unfortunately.
56:58
Kim Kelley: I've now fully embraced it.
57:00
Kim Kelley: But my point is just, you know, for one, it really shouldn't have to be me.
57:03
Kim Kelley: Nope.
57:04
Kim Kelley: I should be on a beach somewhere.
57:05
Kim Kelley: For two, it really should be the people whose job it is to protect and serve.
57:09
Kim Kelley: You know what I mean?
57:10
Kim Kelley: Like it shouldn't be controversial to talk about protecting children.
57:13
Kim Kelley: That's really retarded.
57:14
Kim Kelley: But then for three, right?
57:15
Kim Kelley: And I I hope you appreciate like how dark my humor is, how sarcastic I am about this.
57:19
Kim Kelley: And I also feel like I kind of get to be, because it's it's so ridiculous that and I'm I'm gonna say nobody because look, next chapter, like, show me the good guys, right?
57:29
Kim Kelley: I'm I'm not saying everybody's bad, but which politicians even making sounds with their mouth about this?
57:34
Kim Kelley: Why has child trafficking never been mentioned on a presidential debate stage?
57:40
Kim Kelley: I mean, they're not even trying to get your votes out of it.
57:42
Kim Kelley: They're like too cowardly to even make the sounds with their mouth.
57:46
Kim Kelley: Cowardly and corrupt.
57:47
Kim Kelley: Anyway, just just realize like, please appreciate how dark this humor is, but also like the reason for this sarcasm.
57:56
Kim Kelley: It's such a ridiculous problem.
57:57
Kim Kelley: But one of the biggest issues is the cowardice among the good guys that are willing to do nothing.
58:04
Kim Kelley: So, one of my biggest callings, I guess, and the you know, I accept now I'm a petite smiley female with this sarcastic humor because like it's really embarrassing for them to try to be so cowardly to my face.
58:15
Kim Kelley: It really is.
58:16
Kim Kelley: Like, they can't call it a theory to my face, they can't lie to my face, doesn't work well for them.
58:20
Kim Kelley: When they try to make silly excuses, it's very embarrassing for them.
58:23
Kim Kelley: But like, seriously, you know what I mean?
58:25
Kim Kelley: I really just can't, I I can't stomach being the generation that allows this to continue, nor will I let it.
58:31
Kim Kelley: Nor will I allow my niece to grow up in the world that I've seen just while pretending to be a child on the internet, like on a spectrum of intensity, like, oh, there's some stupid problems.
58:39
Kim Kelley: I'd love to unpack that in the next episode.
58:41
Kim Kelley: But like how solvable some of these low-hanging fruit problems are, and that's why I'm focusing on these ones first.
58:47
Kim Kelley: But then also like the amount of obstacles and people that are just not doing what they say, from organizations to politicians to all of the above.
58:55
Kim Kelley: But to your point, it's not a far, far away problem.
58:58
Kim Kelley: And the United States is the biggest problem in the whole world.
59:04
Kim Kelley: Statistically, per capita, like in every way you put it, the United States is the main consumer, the main destination, the main source.
59:12
Kim Kelley: Did you also know familial trafficking is the number one most reported form of trafficking in America?
59:20
Kim Kelley: Families trafficking their own children.
59:23
Kim Kelley: Not a far, far away problem.
59:25
Kim Kelley: Not usually a man jumping out of a white van with a mask and a weapon.
59:29
Kim Kelley: It's someone the kid knows and is supposed to trust and is supposed to be safe with.
59:34
Kim Kelley: So if our systems don't understand the problem, we're not helping victims.
59:40
Kim Kelley: We're not stopping this problem.
59:41
Kim Kelley: We are in fact allowing it to thrive.
59:43
Kim Kelley: And I refuse to be that generation.
59:46
Kim Kelley: So I think a lot of uh yeah, lots more to unpack.
59:50
Kim Kelley: And uh I I I take pride in pissing off bad guys.
59:53
Kim Kelley: I think more of us should get on board with that.
59:55
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Yeah, I I I I agree.
59:57
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Um that's one of
1:00:00
Kim Kelley: the reasons why we we devoted a lot of our a lot of our shows in 2025 to the topic is to to learn more uh to help however we we can and there's so much more we we can do we're right now in the cusp of awareness and then action and it's by having guests like you and others have unfortunately have gone through or even having gone through uh the being in a call and being in traffic just realizing like you said why hasn't why hasn't that been talked about on a debate stage what we have all these billions going through all these different programs but and what what's the reason are we just looking the other way or are we part of the problem and it's it's hard people go well no that's not it and uh it's like well then what is it because nothing's being done to the caliber and the level that it it it needs to be done and it it does it it takes elected officials it it takes community officials takes law enforcement it takes so much coordination and if one of those levels hasn't been trained then it it all the other say all the other departments all the other areas all the work that they're doing is for not because there has to be and I'm sure with the the training that goes on at the ranch everybody has to be kind of on the same page when they're going through a scenario you you can't have you know whether that's the you know the the outdoor driving the competing interests you can't work against each other you can't have people that are here to profit from the problem but not solve the problem you can't have people that are just here for the photo ops none of that is going to help you be effective you know but unfortunately in in most of the world we see all these pretty websites and you know big claims and pretty things and people signing papers and taking pictures we don't see a lot of real world action and that's concerning to me it should be concerning to everyone especially because there's been so much money allocated to government programs and nonprofits and you know if even half of those programs were effective we'd see a lot more action right so I think it's time we stop falling for these talking points and we start paying attention to the actions or the lack thereof but we also start telling ourselves like oh they're trying but they're scared and they wanted to but they got blocked so we should give them more time like we should stop playing along because here's here's what I love to tell people very much, right?
1:02:59
Kim Kelley: If little old me can be out here eradicating darkness with this little light of mine and I don't have Secret Service or any of those resources at my fingertips, right?
1:03:08
Kim Kelley: I'm not gonna let anybody get away with the excuse of fear.
1:03:12
Kim Kelley: It's not a worthy excuse.
1:03:14
Kim Kelley: I don't care who you are, but especially if you're an elected official whose job it is to protect and serve and you have all those resources to protect you, we don't get to stand in the corner and be afraid of the dark.
1:03:26
Kim Kelley: And if you're an elected official and you're scared of the dark, we don't need you because children get to stand in the corner and be afraid of the dark.
1:03:33
Kim Kelley: That's okay.
1:03:33
Kim Kelley: As adults we get to turn on the lights and if you're an elected official and you can't bother to turn the lights on and we're here like turning the lights on for you and you're trying to keep them off like we need to go away because we're here to bring the light.
1:03:47
Kim Kelley: We're here to light a freaking fire so that it ignites people.
1:03:50
Kim Kelley: I hope my example can serve to help more people again you see how I'm really good at eradicating silly excuses, right?
1:03:56
Kim Kelley: But it's it's about lighting a fire to take action.
1:03:59
Kim Kelley: I know there's so much all of us can do to be part of the solution and I'm not asking anyone to dedicate their whole life and give all their time and resources like I've chosen to do.
1:04:08
Kim Kelley: I am saying I want to make it impossible, maybe even embarrassing for people to choose to do nothing.
1:04:14
Kim Kelley: So my challenge to everyone is to pick one thing you can do to be part of the solution this week.
1:04:20
Kim Kelley: Don't think about it too long.
1:04:22
Kim Kelley: Do something think about think about it and start taking action this week.
1:04:26
Kim Kelley: If you really don't know where to start my other challenge to people five find five kids near you and promise me it won't be them.
1:04:35
Kim Kelley: Statistically look statistics are very inaccurate that's a whole other subject but if it's something like one in five kids we don't even need to talk about something as extreme as trafficking we're talking about exploitation and abuse pick five kids protect them promise me it won't be them we the people could change that statistic if we were willing to take action that's how easy it could be right oh yeah that's so true.
1:04:58
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Yeah I I think we uh we did uh well not we you did an excellent job sharing and I I like the your approach with the with the humor and the smiling and and that is it's it's that or it's the alternative right like if and and you're you're choosing to be the positive light and and to have that smile and continue.
1:05:25
Kim Kelley: I'm also choosing not to let them affect me.
1:05:27
Kim Kelley: This isn't a masked smile just so y'all know like I'm not trying to be tough and I'm not saying everybody has to laugh and smile.
1:05:33
Kim Kelley: I'm saying that's my chosen form of feeling I'm also saying I think it's a very healthy release right because I'm not suppressing I'm releasing I'm just not giving them the bandwidth to affect my thoughts or mood or relationships or dreams or whatever and especially not make me cry.
1:05:48
Kim Kelley: Like I'm not going to give them that power or that bandwidth now right I was a helpless child.
1:05:53
Kim Kelley: I couldn't choose back then now like I can choose to not allow them to affect me.
1:05:58
Kim Kelley: So you know it's it's actually pretty I have a lot to say on the healing process and it's it goes all kinds of places but like that's why it's a disclaimer not an apology.
1:06:06
Kim Kelley: You know what I mean?
1:06:07
Kim Kelley: Most a lot of people can't relate and I'm not asking them to I'm just letting them know it is the biggest middle finger you can give to your abusers is to thrive and to not be affected by you know the things they thought would control you.
1:06:19
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Absolutely well I think this is good for our first show so I'm just gonna close it out we'll log out and then we'll just log in with that second link and then we'll we'll pick up from there if that works for you.
1:06:32
Kim Kelley: Yeah it's perfect.
1:06:33
Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes: Well thank you to Kim Kelley for joining us has been an action packed very uh uh very big learning experience for me and so much is going on and so much is is not going on and if we can help one person help one child from being exploited or an adult that may not be able to take care of them themselves we're able to help let's help be part of the solution uh awareness is good action is is better and we look forward to uh part two of our episodes with Kim Kelley so uh you're gonna want to tune in uh to the next episode number and in our catalog and we're gonna continue the conversation and so until next time uh we hope that you are a voice for you or somebody in need we'll see you on the next show everybody thank you and thank you Justin thank you so much for having me you're welcome