Latest / The Path Went Chilly / Jean Spangler Pt. Two

Transcript

Jean Spangler Pt. Two · The Path Went Chilly

0:27
Speaker 1: Welcome back to part two of our series about the
0:29
Speaker 1: disappearance of Jeene Spangler. Let's dive right back in. So
0:33
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about another Hollywood star who is
0:35
Speaker 1: embroiled in this and this is a star that I'm
0:37
Speaker 1: a huge fan of. But thankfully he didn't do anything
0:40
Speaker 1: wrong and it doesn't expose any skeletons in this person's
0:43
Speaker 1: closet or anything like that. But this actor was also
0:46
Speaker 1: good friends with Jeene Spangler and claimed that on the
0:49
Speaker 1: evening before she went missing, he happened to be walking
0:52
Speaker 1: down the street past her apartment and thought that he
0:55
Speaker 1: saw a shadowy figure lurking outside one of the windows,
0:58
Speaker 1: as if they were trying to get in. It was
1:00
Speaker 1: so dark that the actor could not even tell if
1:02
Speaker 1: the figure was a man or a woman, But because
1:05
Speaker 1: he was feeling tired at the time and just wanted
1:07
Speaker 1: to go home, he just pretty much shrugged the whole
1:09
Speaker 1: thing off. But a few days later, once he learned
1:12
Speaker 1: that Gene Spangler went missing, he came forward and reported
1:15
Speaker 1: the incident to the police. And we have no idea
1:18
Speaker 1: if this shadowy figure has any connection to the case,
1:20
Speaker 1: or if it might have just been a completely unrelated person.
1:23
Speaker 1: But this big Hollywood actor who reported this was none
1:27
Speaker 1: other than Robert Stack.
1:29
Speaker 2: Oh wow, that is like Robin's Roman Empire.
1:34
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was completely shocked when I learned this, because
1:38
Speaker 1: I had no idea that he actually has a loose
1:41
Speaker 1: personal connection to an unsolved mystery and that he was
1:44
Speaker 1: actually friends with a missing woman.
1:46
Speaker 2: That is wild, and it seems so unhinged to me that, like,
1:51
Speaker 2: you're walking by your friend's apartment, you see the shadowy
1:54
Speaker 2: figure looks like they're breaking in, but you're like, oh,
1:57
Speaker 2: I'm so tired. I think I'm just gonna go home
1:59
Speaker 2: catch few z's. But then I think back to the
2:03
Speaker 2: Idaho four, and I think back to how a couple
2:06
Speaker 2: of the roommates behaved while all of the carnage was
2:11
Speaker 2: going on, and I think that we so badly want
2:14
Speaker 2: to believe that everything is going to be okay, that
2:17
Speaker 2: we will lie to ourselves in situations and circumstances that
2:22
Speaker 2: are either unsafe or the outcome is going to be
2:27
Speaker 2: very negatively impactful to us, that up until a point
2:31
Speaker 2: where we can no longer lie to ourselves, we will
2:34
Speaker 2: tell ourselves stories to soothe ourselves or make ourselves feel better,
2:38
Speaker 2: and that's what it sounds like Robert Stack did, like
2:40
Speaker 2: he witnessed this, but then was like, it can't be anything.
2:43
Speaker 2: It's not a big deal. You're acting crazy. Those inner
2:47
Speaker 2: dialogues that we have with ourselves when we get spooked.
2:51
Speaker 1: That's what I'm thinking as well. And we also have
2:53
Speaker 1: to remember this as an apartment, and they didn't specifically
2:56
Speaker 1: say it was one of Jean's windows, so for all
2:58
Speaker 1: we know, this shadowy figure could have been trying to
3:00
Speaker 1: break into another apartment and this has nothing to do
3:03
Speaker 1: with Jean's case. But I've often wondered, like I've never
3:06
Speaker 1: seen Robert Stack publicly speak about this case, but could
3:09
Speaker 1: it have influenced his decision to host a TV show
3:11
Speaker 1: about unsolved mysteries, thinking to himself part of his guilty conscience,
3:15
Speaker 1: I had a friend go missing. I'm kind of worried
3:17
Speaker 1: if I should have done more in order to prevent it.
3:20
Speaker 1: So I'm now I'm going to host a show which
3:21
Speaker 1: has a chance to solve mysteries for a lot of
3:23
Speaker 1: other persons and maybe find some missing people.
3:27
Speaker 2: One thousand percent, I feel like this is the Roberts
3:30
Speaker 2: zac As the mystery Hunter origin story that happened right here.
3:35
Speaker 2: This was the genesis of it all. He sees this happen,
3:39
Speaker 2: he doesn't do anything, and then his friend is missing
3:42
Speaker 2: and there's all of these unanswered questions. He's probably sitting
3:46
Speaker 2: there with like a whiteboard trying to connect everything, and
3:49
Speaker 2: then realizes, I've got a passion for unsolved mysteries. I
3:53
Speaker 2: might not be able to solve Jean's disappearance, but I
3:56
Speaker 2: can help other people solve their mysteries.
3:59
Speaker 1: The only read I have is that Unsolved Mysteries never
4:01
Speaker 1: produced a segment about this case, because they did do
4:04
Speaker 1: older mysteries from time to time. But I think it
4:06
Speaker 1: would be surreal if they did a reenactment where another
4:09
Speaker 1: actor playing a younger version of Robert Stack walks past
4:12
Speaker 1: the apartment and sees the shadowy figure, and Robert Stack
4:15
Speaker 1: has to speak about himself and like the first person,
4:17
Speaker 1: describing what he personally saw.
4:19
Speaker 2: I'm wondering if maybe it was too personal for him,
4:23
Speaker 2: maybe it was too emotional in the sense that he
4:26
Speaker 2: thought cost benefit analysis. What are the chances that if
4:30
Speaker 2: we do a segment on this that it will generate
4:32
Speaker 2: new information that could potentially solve Jene's case versus me
4:38
Speaker 2: having to lay bare my feelings and the potential trauma
4:42
Speaker 2: associated with my good friend going missing and me potentially
4:47
Speaker 2: having the ability to intervene at a critical time. And
4:50
Speaker 2: I didn't do that. Not saying that that shadowy figure
4:53
Speaker 2: has anything to do with it, but he had to
4:55
Speaker 2: have been ruminating on that and going over and over
4:58
Speaker 2: and over again the events of that night and how
5:01
Speaker 2: he could have done things differently and if that could
5:04
Speaker 2: have saved Jean's life.
5:07
Speaker 1: That's what I'm thinking as well. He was probably thinking
5:08
Speaker 1: to myself, well, it's a personal one, but it took
5:11
Speaker 1: place over fifty years ago. There's not much chance of
5:13
Speaker 1: solving it, so let's focus more on cases where we
5:16
Speaker 1: can help people and wound up solving it.
5:19
Speaker 2: Because don't you feel like with Robert Stack being the host,
5:22
Speaker 2: there's like this barrier between him and the audience. He
5:25
Speaker 2: doesn't have to be vulnerable, he doesn't have to lay
5:27
Speaker 2: his feelings there, he doesn't have to let you pass
5:31
Speaker 2: that wall of being this like mysterious host. But you
5:35
Speaker 2: lose an element of mystery when you expose your vulnerabilities.
5:38
Speaker 2: And that's probably what would have happened if he would
5:41
Speaker 2: have shared the details of Jean's disappearance.
5:44
Speaker 1: That's what I'm thinking as well. That's probably the reason
5:46
Speaker 1: that they didn't feature it. So now that we've talked
5:48
Speaker 1: about Kirk, investigators started looking into all the doctor Scott's
5:52
Speaker 1: located in the Los Angeles area, but I cannot find
5:55
Speaker 1: any of them who seem to have a connection to Jane.
5:58
Speaker 1: Her sister los Sophie would clim She once recalled seeing
6:01
Speaker 1: the name doctor Scott inside an address book at Jean's apartment,
6:04
Speaker 1: but Sophie cannot find the book anywhere after Gene went missing.
6:08
Speaker 1: So could Jean have taken it with her if she
6:10
Speaker 1: was planning to go see this doctor Scott and that's
6:13
Speaker 1: why it wasn't found.
6:15
Speaker 2: So when they looked up doctor Scott, did they just
6:18
Speaker 2: look up those are the last name, doctor Scott? Because
6:22
Speaker 2: I've certainly been known, especially with like therapists in the
6:26
Speaker 2: past or doctors that I've been closer to, to just
6:30
Speaker 2: call them doctor and then their first name rather than
6:33
Speaker 2: doctor Scott being like the last name.
6:37
Speaker 1: That's a good question. I haven't had any specifics about that,
6:39
Speaker 1: but I'm also thinking, I don't know if you've heard
6:41
Speaker 1: of the podcast La Not So Confidential, which is hosted
6:44
Speaker 1: by two doctors, and one of them goes by the
6:46
Speaker 1: name doctor Scott, even though that's his first name.
6:49
Speaker 2: Yes, I am aware of that podcast. I haven't listened
6:52
Speaker 2: to it in years, probably in like twenty twenty I
6:56
Speaker 2: listened to it a lot. And that's not saying anything
6:57
Speaker 2: bad about the podcast. There's just very few I listened
7:00
Speaker 2: to today, but it is an excellent podcasting. You are right,
7:04
Speaker 2: he does go by doctor Scott and that is not
7:07
Speaker 2: his last name.
7:08
Speaker 1: And as a side note, I've gotten to hang out
7:10
Speaker 1: with doctor Scott and doctor Shiloh at podcasting events over
7:12
Speaker 1: the years and they're both great people. So also, Gene's
7:16
Speaker 1: former divorce attorney would claim that years earlier, she had
7:19
Speaker 1: supposedly carried on an affair with a man named Scotty
7:22
Speaker 1: while Dexter was serving overseas during the war. But the
7:25
Speaker 1: attorney claimed that Gene told him that Scotty was abusive
7:28
Speaker 1: and violent and had threatened to kill her if she
7:30
Speaker 1: ended the relationship. The affair apparently did come to an
7:34
Speaker 1: end by the time Dexter returned home, but as far
7:36
Speaker 1: as the attorney knew, Gen had not seen Scotty since
7:39
Speaker 1: nineteen forty five. But Unfortunately he did not know Scotty's
7:43
Speaker 1: last name or if it was just a nickname, and
7:45
Speaker 1: the only information they had about him was that he
7:47
Speaker 1: had been an Air Corps lieutenant, but police were never
7:51
Speaker 1: able to locate or question him. But once again, it's
7:53
Speaker 1: a Star Trek connection. We have a Kirk and a Scotti.
7:57
Speaker 2: Okay, so doctor Scott and Scotty could be he completely
8:00
Speaker 2: could be two completely different people. It's not like Scott
8:04
Speaker 2: is an uncommon name, So it's possible that we've got
8:07
Speaker 2: a doctor Scott who could be the first name, could
8:11
Speaker 2: be the last name, but more likely the first name.
8:13
Speaker 2: And it could just be a code, right, it could
8:16
Speaker 2: just be which she refers to that person as in
8:18
Speaker 2: a letter because she doesn't want to give away too
8:20
Speaker 2: many details. And then this other Scotty person whom she
8:23
Speaker 2: had the affair with, we don't know if that's the
8:26
Speaker 2: same person, or if there is any connection there, or
8:29
Speaker 2: if it's just a shared name. So it's a little
8:32
Speaker 2: bit confusing when we just don't have a lot of details.
8:36
Speaker 1: It is like there's nothing to indicate that this other
8:38
Speaker 1: Scotty was a doctor. We just know that he was
8:41
Speaker 1: an Air Corps lieutenant and even if Jane like had
8:44
Speaker 1: some issues with him, they broke it off apparently since
8:46
Speaker 1: nineteen forty five, and I don't know if he would
8:49
Speaker 1: be compelled to go after her four years after the fact,
8:52
Speaker 1: so it could have been nothing more than a red herring.
8:54
Speaker 1: But we've already brought up the possibility that maybe Gene's
8:57
Speaker 1: disappearance was connected to an abortion, and sure enough, one
9:01
Speaker 1: of Jean's friends would tell police that she was three
9:03
Speaker 1: months pregnant at the time she went missing, but had
9:06
Speaker 1: not told her family and was planning to get an
9:09
Speaker 1: abortion so then, because abortions were not legal back in
9:12
Speaker 1: nineteen forty nine, there was a speculation that perhaps this
9:16
Speaker 1: was the reason she was going to see the mysterious
9:18
Speaker 1: doctor Scott, and some of Jane's acquaintances would make reference
9:23
Speaker 1: to a former medical student who went by the name
9:25
Speaker 1: Doc and reportedly hung out at the same bars and
9:28
Speaker 1: nightclubs on the Sunset Strip which Gene often liked to frequent,
9:32
Speaker 1: and there were rumors that this Doc would perform abortions
9:35
Speaker 1: for money, but they were never able to figure out
9:38
Speaker 1: his full name. We don't know if his name was Scott,
9:40
Speaker 1: and police were never able to confirm if he even existed,
9:43
Speaker 1: or if this was nothing more than a rumor.
9:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just taking into account that abortions are illegal,
9:51
Speaker 2: it's possible that doctor Scott is a pseudonym. That this
9:55
Speaker 2: person may not have a medical license, they may not
9:58
Speaker 2: even be a doctor. They could be a medical student
10:00
Speaker 2: who dropped out, they could be a veterinarian, they could
10:03
Speaker 2: be a butcher for all we know, And they could
10:06
Speaker 2: just go buy the title doctor Scott because it's more
10:08
Speaker 2: palatable to go buy a name with doctor in front
10:12
Speaker 2: of it when you're going to be doing the most
10:14
Speaker 2: intimate of procedures on women. Even if it is illegal,
10:18
Speaker 2: women are still going to want to have some kind
10:20
Speaker 2: of credentials. But I don't think that there would be
10:23
Speaker 2: any way to test the veracity of their credentials when
10:28
Speaker 2: it's you know, in the nineteen forties, there is no Google.
10:31
Speaker 2: You'd have to do out, so you'd have to hire
10:33
Speaker 2: like a private investigator or something like that. And I
10:36
Speaker 2: think that the women who are going to go and
10:38
Speaker 2: see a doctor like that or someone who claims they're
10:40
Speaker 2: a doctor, are going to be very burdened with the
10:43
Speaker 2: emotions and the logistics of obtaining this abortion and potentially
10:49
Speaker 2: trying to hide it from their partner, from the people
10:53
Speaker 2: in their life, their family, their employer. So it's very layered,
10:57
Speaker 2: and it would be very easy to see women who
11:01
Speaker 2: were in a vulnerable situation such as Gene potentially was.
11:05
Speaker 1: Well. You might recall that a couple of years ago
11:07
Speaker 1: we did a series on the disappearance of a woman
11:10
Speaker 1: named Judith Hyams who went missing in Florida in nineteen
11:13
Speaker 1: sixty five. And that was another one where she had
11:16
Speaker 1: supposedly become pregnant and went to see a Hungarian immigrant
11:20
Speaker 1: with very shady credentials, supposedly to get a back alley
11:24
Speaker 1: abortion before she vanished without a trace. And that is
11:27
Speaker 1: the most plausible theory in that case, And it would
11:30
Speaker 1: not surprise me if the same thing happened to Jean
11:32
Speaker 1: where this wasn't an intentional murder. She went to see
11:35
Speaker 1: someone named doctor Scott or just nicknamed Doc because she
11:38
Speaker 1: wanted to have a back alley abortion, but she died
11:41
Speaker 1: of complications. They disposed of her body and she is
11:44
Speaker 1: still missing to this day.
11:46
Speaker 2: Was that the one where they were they thought that
11:49
Speaker 2: the abortions were performed on a boat.
11:52
Speaker 1: I know that was another one the Indiana Dunes Women,
11:54
Speaker 1: which took place during the nineteen sixties. So we've had
11:57
Speaker 1: a lot of cases like this about back Alibor during
12:00
Speaker 1: the nineteen forties and sixties. But another potential lead in
12:04
Speaker 1: this case was provided by another famous actor named Robert Cummings,
12:07
Speaker 1: who was also friends with Gene and had recently worked
12:10
Speaker 1: with her on a film shoot, and Cummings recalled a
12:14
Speaker 1: conversation he had with her where Gene mentioned a casual
12:17
Speaker 1: affair she was having, and even though she did not
12:19
Speaker 1: mention the name of the person who she was having
12:22
Speaker 1: the affair with, she said that the relationship wasn't serious,
12:25
Speaker 1: but she was quote unquote having the time of her life.
12:28
Speaker 1: And of course there was this only caused speculation that
12:31
Speaker 1: maybe she was referring to Kirk Douglas and wasn't getting
12:34
Speaker 1: his name out there. But I don't think this was
12:37
Speaker 1: officially confirmed, but it's been suspected that this man she
12:40
Speaker 1: was referring to as a screenwriter named Peter Brooks, And
12:44
Speaker 1: it turned out that the day after Gene went missing,
12:46
Speaker 1: Peter kept trying to phone her apartment multiple times and
12:49
Speaker 1: was unable to reach her, and he was the one
12:51
Speaker 1: who actually advised her sister in lost Sophie to go
12:54
Speaker 1: to the police and report her missing, so he was
12:56
Speaker 1: one of the very first people to become concerned about it.
12:59
Speaker 1: But even though there's very little information out there about him,
13:02
Speaker 1: apparently Peter was investigatid by police and cleared of any involvement.
13:07
Speaker 1: But it does sound like Jeane was involved in a
13:09
Speaker 1: number of different relationships, possibly with multiple men. So that's
13:14
Speaker 1: why it's not implausible that she could have also got
13:16
Speaker 1: involved with Kirk Douglas.
13:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems plausible, especially because Kirk was so quick
13:22
Speaker 2: to insert himself and to jump right into it where
13:25
Speaker 2: people wouldn't have made connections. If it was today and
13:28
Speaker 2: we had details like that, somebody would be looking into
13:32
Speaker 2: all the different extras that were on movies. They'd be,
13:35
Speaker 2: you know, doing tiktoks about it and deep diving on Reddit,
13:39
Speaker 2: whereas in the nineteen forties there wasn't that. The fact
13:42
Speaker 2: that Kirk Douglas felt the need to get involved, it
13:46
Speaker 2: just reeks of somebody who was involved. There just seems
13:50
Speaker 2: to be no other motivation or reason that you would
13:53
Speaker 2: get into it except for to try to control the narrative,
13:56
Speaker 2: to get ahead of it before police come if you're
13:58
Speaker 2: worried that they're going to be knocking on your door,
14:01
Speaker 2: you think that it's better to get ahead of it,
14:03
Speaker 2: go talk to them, and then that way you control
14:06
Speaker 2: the flow of information. You're in control, especially if it's
14:09
Speaker 2: somebody who has a controlling nature or control issues. And
14:13
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that he does or he doesn't, but
14:15
Speaker 2: somebody who is a womanizer might be that type of personality.
14:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like Kurk Douglas's actions are in sharp contrast to
14:23
Speaker 1: Peter Brooks, because even if he was having an affair
14:26
Speaker 1: with Gene, it does not sound like he tried to
14:27
Speaker 1: hide it. Like he was one of the very first
14:29
Speaker 1: people to become concerned when she went missing. He was
14:32
Speaker 1: trying to contact the police. And I don't think he
14:35
Speaker 1: denied any involvement with her. I don't know if he
14:37
Speaker 1: was married, or if he had any secrets or anything
14:40
Speaker 1: like that, Whereas Kirk Douglass is immediately inserting himself to
14:43
Speaker 1: control the narrative before he is even beneficially linked to
14:46
Speaker 1: the case. So Peter Brooks is acting the way you'd
14:49
Speaker 1: expect someone to act if someone they genuinely cared about
14:51
Speaker 1: when missing.
14:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, Peter Brooks like, those actions are the actions of
14:55
Speaker 2: somebody that's going crap. Gene is missing, and do I
15:00
Speaker 2: care more about protecting myself and my relationship my bad
15:05
Speaker 2: actions or am I going to go to the police
15:07
Speaker 2: and share what I've done and how I'm connected to
15:10
Speaker 2: her and at risk to himself and his relationship. And
15:14
Speaker 2: that is how you would expect somebody to act, for sure.
15:18
Speaker 2: But then Kirk Douglas, he said that he actually didn't
15:21
Speaker 2: even know her name, which why would you be jumping
15:25
Speaker 2: in getting involved doing all this when you didn't even
15:28
Speaker 2: know her name? It's all very odd. So yes, you're
15:32
Speaker 2: right to compare and contrast with how somebody would be
15:36
Speaker 2: acting or how you would expect them to act, and
15:38
Speaker 2: how you would expect a guilty party to act.
15:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the case just winds up getting even more
15:44
Speaker 1: convoluted as we've got another famous person attached to it.
15:48
Speaker 1: Do you know who Mickey Cohen is?
15:50
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
15:52
Speaker 1: He was pretty much the most famous gangster in Los
15:55
Speaker 1: Angeles during Next time. He ran an organized crime ring
15:58
Speaker 1: and he's been portrayed by actors in a number of
16:00
Speaker 1: different movies. Do you remember the movie Gangster Squad with
16:03
Speaker 1: Sean Penn and Ryan Gosling that came out several years ago.
16:06
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I saw that movie.
16:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's loosely based on a true story, and Sean
16:10
Speaker 1: Penn played Mickey Cohen, and rumor started circulating that prior
16:15
Speaker 1: to her acting career, Jean had worked as a showgirl
16:17
Speaker 1: at a nightclub called the Florentine Gardens, which was known
16:20
Speaker 1: for being a popular hangout for gangsters, including Mickey Cohen,
16:24
Speaker 1: and in the week prior to her disappearance, it's been
16:27
Speaker 1: reported that Gene had been seen in Palm Springs with
16:30
Speaker 1: one of Mickey Cohen's top henchmen named David Ogle, who
16:34
Speaker 1: went by the nickname Little Davey. And believe it or not,
16:37
Speaker 1: David Ogle would go missing on the days after Jeane
16:40
Speaker 1: went missing. At the time, he was under a diatment
16:43
Speaker 1: for conspiracy and was released on a twenty five thousand
16:46
Speaker 1: dollars bail and on October the ninth, after he was
16:49
Speaker 1: last seen leaving a haberdasherie that was owned by Nicky Cohen,
16:52
Speaker 1: Ogle vanished without a trace, and his abandoned Cadillac would
16:55
Speaker 1: later be found near the campus of UCLA, and interestingly enough,
16:59
Speaker 1: one earlier, another associated Mickey Cohen's had also gone missing.
17:03
Speaker 1: His name was Frank Nikolai, who was under indictment for
17:07
Speaker 1: conspiracy and had been released on a fifty thousand dollars bail,
17:10
Speaker 1: and he went missing after leaving the exact same tabdastree
17:13
Speaker 1: onto September. The tecond and his abandoned car was left
17:16
Speaker 1: behind at Los Angeles International Airport and the vehicle's keys
17:20
Speaker 1: were found inside a sewer. And I know, obviously, when
17:24
Speaker 1: gangsters go missing, the most obvious explanation is that someone
17:27
Speaker 1: killed them and disposed of their body in order to
17:30
Speaker 1: prevent them from talking, because they were facing legal troubles
17:33
Speaker 1: at the time, and there are rumors that they were
17:35
Speaker 1: both disposed of in a line pit. But because Gene
17:38
Speaker 1: Spangler had worked at this nightclub and reportedly knew at
17:41
Speaker 1: least David Ogle and she happened to go missing during
17:44
Speaker 1: the same time period, rumors started circulating that perhaps Mickey
17:47
Speaker 1: Cohen made Gene disappear because she knew too much about
17:51
Speaker 1: his organized crime activities.
17:53
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like that's a stretch. It's possible,
17:57
Speaker 2: of course, it's possible, but I'm much more inclined to
18:01
Speaker 2: lean towards the Kirk Douglas angle. The Mickey Cohen angle
18:05
Speaker 2: is of course fascinating because anytime you've got a really
18:09
Speaker 2: prominent gangster that's been portrayed in movies and you've got
18:11
Speaker 2: associates who are disappearing. But I'm more inclined to think
18:15
Speaker 2: that the associates disappearing is more of a coincidence than anything,
18:20
Speaker 2: because they're disappearing from this habodatary. Like you said, there
18:24
Speaker 2: is a chance that they could talk to authorities. If
18:28
Speaker 2: Mickey Cohen didn't feel secure and their ability to keep
18:30
Speaker 2: their mouths shut and just do their time, then he
18:34
Speaker 2: would have a motivation or his organization would have a
18:37
Speaker 2: motivation in eliminating those individuals, because why take the chance
18:42
Speaker 2: if you're insecure at all, that they could squeal, because
18:45
Speaker 2: that could bring down your whole organization. You could end
18:47
Speaker 2: up in jail and all the money that you have
18:50
Speaker 2: coming in could come to a halt. So there's a
18:52
Speaker 2: lot to lose for Mickey Cohen. And as far as
18:56
Speaker 2: how much Gene Spangler could have known from working at
18:59
Speaker 2: a club like that enough to get her killed, that
19:02
Speaker 2: feels like a bit of a stretch to me. There's
19:04
Speaker 2: a lot of women that work at these clubs, and
19:07
Speaker 2: we weren't seeing a bunch of them dropping dead, So
19:10
Speaker 2: why would it be Jean and why then, Well.
19:14
Speaker 1: Innder nomost circumstances, I would think that, yes, that is
19:16
Speaker 1: a major stretch. It's probably a coincidence that they had
19:19
Speaker 1: connections to each other and when missing around the same
19:21
Speaker 1: time period. But there would be another big twist in
19:24
Speaker 1: February of nineteen fifty a few months later, when a
19:26
Speaker 1: clerk at a hotel in Alpaso, Texas, was certain that
19:31
Speaker 1: he had seen Gene Spangler checking in alongside davey Ogel
19:35
Speaker 1: and Frank Nicoli, and he was shown Jeane's photograph and
19:38
Speaker 1: positively identified or so this started all these rumors that
19:42
Speaker 1: these two men had gone on the run to avoid prosecution.
19:44
Speaker 1: Maybe they took Jane with her, But of course Jean's
19:47
Speaker 1: family was denying this, saying that there's no way she
19:49
Speaker 1: would have just taken off and abandoned her daughter in
19:51
Speaker 1: order to hang out with a bunch of gangsters and
19:54
Speaker 1: gone to Texas. And the theory that has been pushed
19:56
Speaker 1: forward is that maybe this was done just to try
19:59
Speaker 1: to cause headache for Mickey Cohen because he had bailed
20:02
Speaker 1: both of these men out. It cost him seventy five
20:04
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, and if it could be confirmed that they
20:07
Speaker 1: were dead, then he would get the bail money back.
20:10
Speaker 1: But it's been rumors that possibly some of his rivals
20:13
Speaker 1: spread these false stories about them being seen alive in
20:16
Speaker 1: Texas with Gene Spangler, because otherwise Mickey would not get
20:20
Speaker 1: his money back if it was proven that they had
20:22
Speaker 1: just run off and were not dead. So this actually
20:26
Speaker 1: caused him financial issues because two years later he would
20:28
Speaker 1: finally be indicted on tax evasion. He's kind of like
20:31
Speaker 1: al Capone, where they couldn't get him on any more
20:33
Speaker 1: serious crimes like murder, but they were able to send
20:36
Speaker 1: him to prison for tax evasion. So it's entirely possible
20:39
Speaker 1: this was just a troll job where they were spreading
20:41
Speaker 1: false rumors that Geene Spangler ran off with these two
20:43
Speaker 1: gangsters in order to cause issues with Cohen.
20:47
Speaker 2: It sounds still like a bit of a stretch for me,
20:49
Speaker 2: like I'm more inclined to believe that it is a
20:51
Speaker 2: troll rumor because unless they kidnapped Jeane to bring her along,
20:55
Speaker 2: I don't see her going of her own accord. She
20:59
Speaker 2: has Christie in whom she loves. She has Florence who's
21:02
Speaker 2: in her life, who she loves. She's got a good
21:05
Speaker 2: family structure, and she's incredibly responsible as a mother. I
21:09
Speaker 2: don't see her going on the run with these two gangsters.
21:12
Speaker 2: She's trying to actualize her dreams of being on the
21:15
Speaker 2: silver screen. Why go back to that life that she
21:19
Speaker 2: was potentially in before where she would have been mixed
21:22
Speaker 2: up with those gangsters. Like of course, they're a huge
21:25
Speaker 2: part of Hollywood at the time, and you can't separate
21:29
Speaker 2: them from the whole process, because I'm sure that a
21:31
Speaker 2: lot of their money was going into different films and whatnot.
21:34
Speaker 2: But still, I just have a really hard time believing
21:38
Speaker 2: that she's going to leave Christine with Sophie in order
21:41
Speaker 2: to be going off with these two yahoos.
21:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And that's the thing is that they never
21:46
Speaker 1: found any conclusive evidence that she even knew it in
21:49
Speaker 1: these guys. There was ron rumor that she had been
21:51
Speaker 1: seen in Palm Springs with Davy Ogel, but I'm not
21:54
Speaker 1: entirely sure that's true. I don't know if she was
21:56
Speaker 1: even taking trips to Palm Springs, And even though she
21:59
Speaker 1: worked as showgirl at Mickey Cohen's club. That doesn't necessarily
22:02
Speaker 1: mean that she interacted with any of these guys. And
22:05
Speaker 1: I think probably the sensationalism just came out because after
22:08
Speaker 1: the whole link between her and Kirk Douglas, maybe someone
22:10
Speaker 1: came up with the idea, oh, she has a loose
22:12
Speaker 1: link with Nicky Cole, and let's try to get him
22:14
Speaker 1: embroiled in this as well.
22:17
Speaker 2: I'm just looking up. I want to see what she
22:20
Speaker 2: looks like. Okay, so Jean Spangler's very beautiful burnett, very
22:27
Speaker 2: light eyes, pale skin. I could see that, like she's
22:31
Speaker 2: unique looking in the light eyes with the dark hair.
22:36
Speaker 2: But I still think that there is a distinct possibility
22:39
Speaker 2: that somebody could see a woman with Ogel and Nicolie
22:43
Speaker 2: and could misidentify Jean. There could be a pretty brunette there,
22:49
Speaker 2: and it's very easy to be like, oh, yeah, she
22:51
Speaker 2: was the one. We've talked about eyewitness identification, not just
22:54
Speaker 2: on all of our episodes, but on this specific episode.
22:56
Speaker 2: And how problematic it is one person saying that I
23:00
Speaker 2: saw Geene Spangler in Texas with these two, I just
23:03
Speaker 2: I have a hard time believing it.
23:05
Speaker 1: Oh, definitely, like, even though she is a beautiful woman.
23:07
Speaker 1: I'm sure there were hundreds of women in Hollywood during
23:09
Speaker 1: that time period who looked just like her, and probably
23:12
Speaker 1: in Texas as well. So there isn't really anything distinct
23:15
Speaker 1: about Gene that makes her stand out, like a scar
23:18
Speaker 1: or anything like that. So I could definitely see number
23:21
Speaker 1: of eyewitnesses seeing someone who looked like her. Like those
23:23
Speaker 1: other sightings we talked about of her in the nightclub
23:26
Speaker 1: and her in the car where she's supposedly screaming for help,
23:29
Speaker 1: they could have been just entirely different women who just
23:31
Speaker 1: happened to resemble her. So, after Jeane went missing, her
23:35
Speaker 1: ex husband Dexter was awarded temporary custody of Christine and
23:39
Speaker 1: a lengthy legal battle would ensue between Dexter and Jean's
23:43
Speaker 1: family which would last over three years. And during his
23:46
Speaker 1: original custody battle with Jeane, Dexter at lunched a smear
23:49
Speaker 1: campaign against her, alleging that Jane was an unfit mother
23:53
Speaker 1: who quote unquote preferred parties to priorities. And also before
23:58
Speaker 1: Jeane was officially awarded custody, had prevented Jane from being
24:02
Speaker 1: able to see their daughter on no less than twenty
24:04
Speaker 1: three separate occasions just blatantly ignoring court orders. And now
24:08
Speaker 1: that Gene was gone, Dexter wanted his current wife Lynn,
24:11
Speaker 1: to legally adopt Christine on the grounds of abandonment, but
24:15
Speaker 1: his attempts were blocked by the courts since it could
24:17
Speaker 1: not be officially confirmed if Jean was alive or she
24:20
Speaker 1: was dead, there was no hard evidence that she had
24:22
Speaker 1: taken off voluntarily and abandoned her daughter. So of course,
24:27
Speaker 1: things eventually reached the point where even though Florence was
24:31
Speaker 1: allowed to have visitation with Christine, Dexter repeatedly denied the
24:34
Speaker 1: court orders and was ordered to serve fifteen days in
24:38
Speaker 1: jail in nineteen fifty three for a contempt of court,
24:40
Speaker 1: but rather than turn himself in, he fled to Florida
24:43
Speaker 1: with Lynn and Christine, and the police were just unable
24:46
Speaker 1: to find them. And it sounds like you just completely
24:49
Speaker 1: abandoned the matter that they just stayed down there. Nobody
24:51
Speaker 1: tried to bring them back, and as far as I
24:53
Speaker 1: can tell, Christine never had any more contact with Jean's
24:57
Speaker 1: family after that. She just stayed in Florida and then fled.
25:00
Speaker 1: Lawrence passed away in nineteen ninety one, so it's an
25:02
Speaker 1: extra element of tragedy, like Florence lost her son during
25:05
Speaker 1: World War Two, her daughter went missing, and now she
25:08
Speaker 1: just lost off all contact with her granddaughter because her
25:12
Speaker 1: father ran away with her and just was never found.
25:16
Speaker 2: That is truly heartbreaking. Florence experienced so much loss, and
25:20
Speaker 2: then to have the police, I guess it was a
25:23
Speaker 2: time period hunting somebody down in a different state would
25:27
Speaker 2: have seemed like such a huge task, and I'm sure
25:29
Speaker 2: that their priorities or when it came to spending on investigations,
25:33
Speaker 2: was fairly limited. And I don't know about parents taking
25:38
Speaker 2: a child to another state, how that would have been
25:41
Speaker 2: prioritized at the time. But poor Florence to lose Christine,
25:46
Speaker 2: that last connection to Jeanne, and to not have that
25:49
Speaker 2: resolution to know what happened to jean to be able
25:52
Speaker 2: to have her body so that she could bury her
25:55
Speaker 2: or cremate her, do whatever she chooses, but to have
25:58
Speaker 2: her daughter there and to have her clothes, and like
26:01
Speaker 2: you said as well, having her son die during wartime.
26:05
Speaker 2: It's all so tragic. It just feels absolutely Shakespearean.
26:10
Speaker 1: It is, yeah, And I think that if like a father,
26:13
Speaker 1: like a denied a cord order and ran off with
26:15
Speaker 1: his daughter. I think if it happened these days, it
26:17
Speaker 1: would be harder to hide out and they would eventually
26:19
Speaker 1: find him. But back in the nineteen fifties, I'm guessing
26:22
Speaker 1: that just wasn't a priority to think of themselves. Well,
26:24
Speaker 1: this is the girl's biological father, and her mother may
26:27
Speaker 1: have run out with her. She's technically not in legal
26:30
Speaker 1: custody of her grandmother, so they just let it slide.
26:33
Speaker 1: And then Florence had to live the last several decades
26:35
Speaker 1: of her life without receiving any answers or seeing her
26:37
Speaker 1: granddaughter again. So now we have to talk about potential
26:40
Speaker 1: connections with the Black Dolly murder. That's, of course, was
26:44
Speaker 1: the death of another young woman named Elizabeth Short, who
26:47
Speaker 1: was found mutilated and sliced in half in a vacant
26:50
Speaker 1: lot in Los Angeles in January of nineteen forty seven,
26:53
Speaker 1: less than three years earlier, and much like Gene Spangler,
26:57
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Short had come to Hollywood as an aspie hiring
27:00
Speaker 1: actress trying to find a career, and they did kind
27:02
Speaker 1: of have a resemblance to each other, so they looked
27:05
Speaker 1: at possibilities that the two cases might be connected. But
27:08
Speaker 1: of course the big uh. The big difference is that
27:10
Speaker 1: the Black Dolia murder was a huge spectacle because whoever
27:14
Speaker 1: did it wanted to Elizabeth's body to be found, because
27:17
Speaker 1: they sliced her in half, left both halves of her
27:19
Speaker 1: body in this vacant lot. Whereas Jeane vanished without a trace,
27:23
Speaker 1: they couldn't even tell she was murdered. So it just
27:25
Speaker 1: seems like a much different mo.
27:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, it absolutely seems like a different MO. But I
27:31
Speaker 2: can see how, on the surface you could connect the two.
27:35
Speaker 2: They have a very similar look, both have incredibly light
27:38
Speaker 2: eyes and dark hair. They both had dreams of being
27:41
Speaker 2: on the silver screen, and were involved with different people
27:45
Speaker 2: in the Hollywood circles. So I can see the very
27:49
Speaker 2: superficial connections there. But the way that the Black Dahlia
27:55
Speaker 2: Elizabeth Smart, her body being on display, the way that
27:59
Speaker 2: it was that seemed to be a killer who wanted
28:02
Speaker 2: to gloat, and they wanted the recognition. They wanted people
28:06
Speaker 2: to see the horror of what they had done and
28:09
Speaker 2: to be able to subject to be able to subject
28:13
Speaker 2: Elizabeth to such cruelty even after death, and with Gene
28:18
Speaker 2: to see her disappear. You're not putting a body on display,
28:23
Speaker 2: you're not giving any answers to the family, you're not
28:26
Speaker 2: gloating in this crime that you've done, and you've horrified
28:29
Speaker 2: everybody unless they've got some evolving mo and they thought, okay, well,
28:34
Speaker 2: you know that brought too much heat, so now I've
28:38
Speaker 2: got to evolve as a killer. But to me, I'm
28:41
Speaker 2: with you, it seems like two unconnected cases.
28:45
Speaker 1: That's what I'm inclined to agrieve. But the biggest proponent
28:48
Speaker 1: of the theory that Gene was murdered by the Black
28:51
Speaker 1: Dahlia Killer is a retired LAPD detective named Steve Hodell,
28:56
Speaker 1: who for many years has pushed forward a narrative that
28:58
Speaker 1: is father George Hodell was the Black Dollia Killer. He's
29:01
Speaker 1: released a bunch of books about it, he's released podcasts
29:04
Speaker 1: about it, and if you look at his background, George
29:06
Speaker 1: Hodell is clearly a horrible human being who was very
29:09
Speaker 1: abusive to his own family. So I do think that
29:12
Speaker 1: Steve is dealing with a lot of trauma and trying
29:14
Speaker 1: to push forward the narrative that he was raised by
29:16
Speaker 1: a father who is one of the worst serial killers
29:18
Speaker 1: of all time. But from his research, Steve is convinced
29:22
Speaker 1: that George Hodell was the man scene with Jean at
29:25
Speaker 1: the Cheesebox restaurant during the early mornings of October the eighth,
29:29
Speaker 1: right before she went missing, and he also believes that
29:31
Speaker 1: he was the driver of the car that Jeene was
29:33
Speaker 1: in when she sped away from the gas station and
29:36
Speaker 1: she was crying out to the attendant, please get the
29:38
Speaker 1: police to follow the car. And also Steve believes that
29:41
Speaker 1: Jean's remains might be buried on some property behind his
29:44
Speaker 1: father's former house, which is located only a half mile
29:47
Speaker 1: away from the Griffith Park entrance where Jean's purse was found.
29:52
Speaker 1: But the big issue with Steve Hodell is that he
29:54
Speaker 1: is run into credibility issues because he also thinks that
29:57
Speaker 1: his father is responsible for pretty much all the other
29:59
Speaker 1: uns cold cases in Los Angeles during that time period,
30:03
Speaker 1: and thinks that he's this serial killer who's responsible for
30:06
Speaker 1: so many unsolved cold cases. And he pretty much lost
30:09
Speaker 1: a lot of credibility when he said that my father
30:12
Speaker 1: is not just the Black Dahlia killer, he is also
30:14
Speaker 1: the Zodiac Killer, even though those murders took place two
30:17
Speaker 1: decades later in the Bay Area away from Los Angeles
30:21
Speaker 1: and most investigators do not believe that the two crimes
30:23
Speaker 1: are connected.
30:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, Steve Hodell, I have great empathy for him with
30:29
Speaker 2: what he dealt with growing up with George Hodell and
30:32
Speaker 2: having him as a father, and I can't imagine the
30:36
Speaker 2: wounds that that would cause and the trauma and the
30:39
Speaker 2: impact of that all. But I don't believe that his
30:42
Speaker 2: father was the Zodiac killer, and I don't believe that
30:46
Speaker 2: he's involved personally in this case. Of course he could be.
30:49
Speaker 2: I just think the probability is low, and that Steve
30:52
Speaker 2: Hodell either believes this all wholeheartedly or has a vested
30:57
Speaker 2: financial interest or both. I don't know quite what is
31:01
Speaker 2: motivation is with regards to trying to connect all of
31:04
Speaker 2: these cases. If there is a true belief or if
31:07
Speaker 2: it is an underlying financial motive, I'll never know. But
31:12
Speaker 2: there are some credibility issues. And just because he's saying
31:16
Speaker 2: that his father was involved doesn't make me inclined to
31:18
Speaker 2: believe that it's true.
31:20
Speaker 1: I mean, on the surface, Steve Hodell, when you see
31:22
Speaker 1: his case for his father being the Black Dolly killer,
31:25
Speaker 1: it does seem fairly convincing. But then when he says
31:27
Speaker 1: the whole Zodiac thing that he's this serial killer who
31:30
Speaker 1: operated over two decades, and we're committing all these famous crimes,
31:33
Speaker 1: he starts to lose a lot of credibility. And George
31:36
Speaker 1: was also investigated back in the nineteen forties and cleared
31:39
Speaker 1: as a suspect by the LAPDS. So it just seems
31:43
Speaker 1: that Steve is like convinced that they let him slip
31:45
Speaker 1: through their fingers and has just been pushing forward this
31:48
Speaker 1: narrative ever since. But one of the reasons has been
31:50
Speaker 1: connected with Gene Spangler. I think this is probably just
31:53
Speaker 1: a coincidence, much like the Davy Ogel disappearance in the
31:56
Speaker 1: Mickey Cohen situation. Bought on October, the sixth day before
32:00
Speaker 1: Jean went missing, George Hodell was actually arrested in charged
32:04
Speaker 1: with one count of incest and one count of sexual
32:06
Speaker 1: perversion after he allegedly raped his fourteen year old daughter Tomorrow,
32:12
Speaker 1: and George wound up making bail. But Steve has theorized
32:15
Speaker 1: that maybe Jane found out about this and knew all
32:18
Speaker 1: the truth and was going to act as a witness,
32:20
Speaker 1: so that's why George had to have her murdered and
32:22
Speaker 1: disposed of her body. And another tragic element is that
32:26
Speaker 1: when George went on trial, he wound up being acquitted
32:28
Speaker 1: because apparently his defense team made a very convincing case
32:31
Speaker 1: to the jury that Tomorrow was lying and trying to
32:34
Speaker 1: smear him. But in today's perspective, it seems very obvious
32:38
Speaker 1: that George was guilty and was a very abusive father,
32:40
Speaker 1: and it's an unfortunate that he got acquitted. But there
32:43
Speaker 1: is just no hard evidence that George Hodell and Jean
32:46
Speaker 1: Spangler even knew each other and that she would have
32:49
Speaker 1: been murdered to cover up all this knowledge she had
32:51
Speaker 1: of rapid incests. So it really seems to me like
32:54
Speaker 1: Steve is really stretching things trying to link these two
32:56
Speaker 1: cases together.
32:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what it feels like. George Hurdell seems to
33:01
Speaker 2: unequivocally be a horrible human being, but I don't believe
33:05
Speaker 2: that he's responsible for what happened to Gene Spangler.
33:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it seems like so many people over the
33:11
Speaker 1: years have pushed forward their own theories about what happened
33:14
Speaker 1: to Jane. In a two thousand and nine, an author
33:16
Speaker 1: named Megan Abbott published a novel titled The Song as You,
33:20
Speaker 1: which is kind of a fictionalized story based on Gene
33:23
Speaker 1: Spangler's disappearance because it involves like some fictional character trying
33:28
Speaker 1: to find out the truth about what happened to her,
33:30
Speaker 1: So obviously you shouldn't take any of the information push
33:33
Speaker 1: forward in his book as gospel. But she did push
33:36
Speaker 1: forward an interesting theory that Gene was what they called
33:38
Speaker 1: a quote unquote badger girl who was involved in a
33:41
Speaker 1: racket where she slept with prominent men and then in
33:44
Speaker 1: turn gangsters with blackmail them in order to stay quiet
33:47
Speaker 1: and the run reason this idea does have some basis
33:50
Speaker 1: in reality is because shortly before Gene went missing, Gene
33:53
Speaker 1: apparently told some friend of hers that she was expecting
33:56
Speaker 1: to come into a great deal of money sometime in
33:59
Speaker 1: the near few But no one can figure out why
34:01
Speaker 1: she said this because she hadn't been hired for any
34:04
Speaker 1: acting jobs. She didn't have any big work planned in
34:06
Speaker 1: the future, so where was this money going to come?
34:09
Speaker 1: This sun financial windfall, and this fictionalized book push forward
34:13
Speaker 1: the theory that maybe she had been got involved in
34:14
Speaker 1: a blackmail racket where she would like sleep with prominent
34:18
Speaker 1: men and then get paid off by gangsters, But of
34:20
Speaker 1: course there's no evidence to support this other than this
34:23
Speaker 1: cryptic statement about her coming into a bunch of money
34:26
Speaker 1: in the future.
34:27
Speaker 2: I mean, I could believe something like that could potentially
34:30
Speaker 2: be true. She was connected to a lot of Hollywood guys.
34:33
Speaker 2: It seems like she knew a lot of movers and shakers.
34:35
Speaker 2: That is a really valuable thing for gangsters because to
34:40
Speaker 2: be able to exploit somebody based on the information that
34:44
Speaker 2: you could gather from that woman, if they're sleeping with
34:46
Speaker 2: that person, it could be enough to potentially destroy people's lives,
34:50
Speaker 2: and so people are willing to pay for that to
34:52
Speaker 2: keep it quiet. So could she be involved? Absolutely? Was she?
34:56
Speaker 2: I have no idea.
34:58
Speaker 1: I mean, there could be some elements of t that
35:00
Speaker 1: with Kirk Douglas. If she was having an affair with him,
35:02
Speaker 1: maybe she thought he's gonna pay me a lot of
35:04
Speaker 1: money for this abortion or something or to end the relationship,
35:08
Speaker 1: and this is going to give me enough money to
35:10
Speaker 1: kape there of myself, support myself and my daughter. But
35:13
Speaker 1: then something went horribly wrong. So in two thousand and one,
35:17
Speaker 1: the case would be featured on an episode of a
35:19
Speaker 1: short lived TV series called Mysteries and Scandals, which looked
35:23
Speaker 1: at a lot of old timey scandals and mysteries that
35:25
Speaker 1: took place in Hollywood during its heyday. And one of
35:29
Speaker 1: the people interviewed in this was a researcher named Kyle J. Wood,
35:32
Speaker 1: who was a crime historian who did a lot of
35:35
Speaker 1: extensive interviews connected to Jane's case. Apparently the show tried
35:39
Speaker 1: to get Dexter Benter on there because he was still
35:42
Speaker 1: alive at that point living in Florida, but he declined,
35:45
Speaker 1: and even though they wanted to interview her daughter, Christine,
35:48
Speaker 1: Dexter pretty much declined on Christine's behalf, saying that she
35:51
Speaker 1: would not be interested in appearing on a show like this.
35:54
Speaker 1: And I know that they also asked Jeane's sister in law, Sophie,
35:57
Speaker 1: who was still alive at this point, and she also
35:59
Speaker 1: declined to be interview But many years later she agreed
36:02
Speaker 1: to do an interview with this historian, Kyle J. Wood,
36:05
Speaker 1: And there are snippets of this interview published on his
36:08
Speaker 1: YouTube channel which were put up there before Sophie passed
36:12
Speaker 1: away in two thousand and six, and she has shared
36:15
Speaker 1: some incriminating information about Dexter which I have not seen
36:18
Speaker 1: shared by any other source. She claimed that the morning
36:21
Speaker 1: after Jeane disappeared. On October the eighth, nineteen forty nine,
36:25
Speaker 1: Dexter showed up at her apartment for a scheduled visitation
36:29
Speaker 1: where she would pick up Christine, but he never came
36:31
Speaker 1: to the front door, and Christine just ran out to
36:34
Speaker 1: meet Dexter on the sidewalk before they drove away. But
36:37
Speaker 1: according to Sophie, when the police later questioned Dexter, they
36:40
Speaker 1: noticed that he had some scratches on his face, which
36:43
Speaker 1: he claimed were the result of dropping a case of
36:45
Speaker 1: glass bottles at his workplace. And I don't know how
36:48
Speaker 1: exactly that is going to give you scratches on your face,
36:52
Speaker 1: So obviously Sophie did not find that explanation to be convincing,
36:55
Speaker 1: but in retrospect, she wished that she had gone up
36:58
Speaker 1: and spoken to Dexter on the morning of the end
37:00
Speaker 1: to see if he had those fresh scratches at the time.
37:03
Speaker 1: And Sophie also said that after Dexter was interviewed, the
37:06
Speaker 1: police excavated the garage at his house but was not
37:09
Speaker 1: able to find any evidence. But apparently Sophie and her
37:12
Speaker 1: mother Florence, until they both passed away, both believed that
37:16
Speaker 1: Dexter was the one who was responsible for Jeane's disappearance.
37:20
Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, Well, Dexter is a great suspect as well,
37:24
Speaker 2: because we saw his wife Lynn confirming his alibi. But
37:28
Speaker 2: like we mentioned earlier, usuppose confirming your alibi isn't exactly
37:32
Speaker 2: rock solid, And it sounds like he went out of
37:36
Speaker 2: his way to try to discredit Jean as a mother
37:39
Speaker 2: and denied her on twenty three separate occasions seeing Christine
37:43
Speaker 2: prior to her being given custody, and also in their marriage.
37:47
Speaker 2: She cited the reason for the divorce as extreme cruelty.
37:50
Speaker 2: So it doesn't sound like Dexter is a great guy,
37:53
Speaker 2: and it seems like he could potentially have a motive
37:56
Speaker 2: for wanting her dead because he wants to have control
38:01
Speaker 2: and custody of Christine. So he would be a pretty
38:05
Speaker 2: good suspect. Like I could be split between Dexter and Kirk.
38:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, like the issue with the scratches on the face things.
38:12
Speaker 1: If that was true, it would be pretty damning. But
38:14
Speaker 1: I have never seen the police confirm this, and the
38:16
Speaker 1: only source of this is Sophie in those YouTube interviews.
38:19
Speaker 1: As far as I can tell, Dexter remain married to
38:22
Speaker 1: Lynn for the rest of their lives before he passed
38:24
Speaker 1: away in two thousand and seven. Lynn herself died in
38:27
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, and while I don't know the current whereabouts
38:31
Speaker 1: of Christine, looking at public records, it appears that she
38:34
Speaker 1: is still alive today at the age of eighty two.
38:36
Speaker 1: But she has never spoken about this case publicly, and
38:39
Speaker 1: it's somewhat not surprising because she was only five years
38:41
Speaker 1: old when her mother went missing, so she may not
38:44
Speaker 1: have any thoughts about it. But under almost circumstances, I
38:47
Speaker 1: would think that Dexter is the best suspect. It's just
38:50
Speaker 1: a matter would Lynn be willing to lie for him
38:52
Speaker 1: and offer an alibi saying that they were at home
38:54
Speaker 1: alone all night on the night Geen went missing.
38:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really difficult because you've got so many different
39:02
Speaker 2: variables here. We've got Lynn who was in a relationship
39:06
Speaker 2: with Dexter for so long, and if we are to
39:09
Speaker 2: believe that Dexter is the type of man who is
39:11
Speaker 2: capable of extreme cruelty, like Jane claimed, then we don't
39:15
Speaker 2: know what type of dynamic was existent in the relationship
39:19
Speaker 2: with Lynn. She may have been scared to come forward,
39:22
Speaker 2: may have been scared to say anything, and after a
39:24
Speaker 2: certain amount of time goes by. You may want to
39:27
Speaker 2: preserve the memory of your husband. You might not want
39:30
Speaker 2: the shame associated with having the person that you were
39:34
Speaker 2: married to for years potentially be a murderer, and you
39:38
Speaker 2: may want to protect Christine. I'm not sure what her
39:41
Speaker 2: motivations could be. And I think with Christine, you have
39:44
Speaker 2: the situation where you have a father who clearly hated
39:48
Speaker 2: your mother, regardless of if he was responsible for her disappearance.
39:53
Speaker 2: He may have poisoned the well with Christine and may
39:55
Speaker 2: have said, like she ran off, she wasn't a good mother,
39:59
Speaker 2: and really framed a narrative in a certain type of
40:01
Speaker 2: a way, in a way that she couldn't go and
40:05
Speaker 2: do research on a case like her mother's like we
40:08
Speaker 2: can today. So you're going along with the narrative that
40:12
Speaker 2: or the yarn that your father is spinning about the
40:15
Speaker 2: type of mother that Jean was. And when a parent
40:19
Speaker 2: indoctrinates a child from a young age, it can be
40:22
Speaker 2: very difficult to separate what they've told you from the
40:27
Speaker 2: objective facts.
40:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, like that's I've seen that in a number of
40:31
Speaker 1: cases in which spouses go missing and they have children,
40:35
Speaker 1: and the child wounds up remaining with the other half
40:37
Speaker 1: of the spouse who is under suspicion. But because they
40:40
Speaker 1: have full control over the narrative, they are able to
40:42
Speaker 1: convince them that I'm completely innocent. I'm being falsely accused.
40:46
Speaker 1: Your mother ran off voluntarily because she didn't love you,
40:49
Speaker 1: So for all we know, this is could have been
40:51
Speaker 1: what happened when Dexter took Christine to Florida and raised her.
40:54
Speaker 1: And of course, by this point, even though Jean Spangler's
40:57
Speaker 1: case has become a heavily discussed mystery, Christine may not
41:00
Speaker 1: want to talk about it because she's been given this
41:03
Speaker 1: specific narrative by her own father. But I do think
41:07
Speaker 1: that if you look at all the theories, Dexter being
41:10
Speaker 1: the killer would fit a lot of the facts here
41:13
Speaker 1: because Jean said that she was going to see him
41:15
Speaker 1: for an overdue child support payment. But also makes me
41:18
Speaker 1: wonder like maybe she was planning to go see Kirk
41:21
Speaker 1: Douglas on that particular night, maybe to talk about a pregnancy,
41:25
Speaker 1: maybe to get money for an abortion, but found out
41:28
Speaker 1: that Kirk was one hundred miles away in Palm Springs,
41:30
Speaker 1: So that's why she decided to write this note that
41:33
Speaker 1: she was going to give to him perhaps at a
41:35
Speaker 1: later time. But then maybe Gene goes to see Dexter
41:38
Speaker 1: maybe to collect this child support payment, but is actually
41:41
Speaker 1: going to use this money to pay for an abortion.
41:44
Speaker 1: But they get into some sort of fight, maybe like
41:47
Speaker 1: he rips off the purse that she's caring and finds
41:49
Speaker 1: this note inside and gets so angry when she finds
41:52
Speaker 1: out that she's pregnant with another man's child that he
41:54
Speaker 1: decides to kill her and then dispose of her body
41:57
Speaker 1: and then dispose of the purse in Griffith Park, but
42:00
Speaker 1: leaves the note inside because they know the police are
42:03
Speaker 1: going to look all into this Kirk and this doctor
42:05
Speaker 1: Scott and they're not going to focus on me. Because
42:08
Speaker 1: I've always thought that's the biggest hole in the narrative
42:10
Speaker 1: that Kirk Douglas was personally the killer, Like maybe he
42:13
Speaker 1: was having an affair with Gene, maybe he got a pregnant,
42:16
Speaker 1: But if he needed to cover up his crime, why
42:19
Speaker 1: would he leave the note inside the purse when he
42:21
Speaker 1: tossed it into Griffith Park.
42:23
Speaker 2: So if that was the case, and if Dexter did
42:26
Speaker 2: do that, he read that note, he didn't then just
42:29
Speaker 2: like toss the note he put it back in very carefully.
42:32
Speaker 2: That would be a really smart forends of countermeasure for
42:35
Speaker 2: the time and would be pretty calculating and definitely brings
42:40
Speaker 2: to light the idea that it's very possible that he
42:42
Speaker 2: could have had Linn Lai for him, especially if he
42:44
Speaker 2: is that scary kind of a guy that he potentially was,
42:47
Speaker 2: if he was capable of that extreme cruelty. So, Kirk Douglas,
42:52
Speaker 2: do I think that he would be capable of that
42:54
Speaker 2: based on the Natalie Wood accusations. Yes, I think he
42:58
Speaker 2: could be capable of it. Did he do that? I'm
43:02
Speaker 2: likely more inclined to lean towards Dexter, just like you know,
43:05
Speaker 2: sixty forty lean and think that Kirk Douglas was having
43:09
Speaker 2: an affair with Jee I believe that. I don't know
43:12
Speaker 2: like allegedly obviously, but I think that he was because
43:16
Speaker 2: of how he inserted himself into the investigation. And like
43:19
Speaker 2: I said earlier on, I don't know if it was
43:21
Speaker 2: a guilty conscience because of the affair or if it
43:24
Speaker 2: was a guilty conscience because he did something to her
43:26
Speaker 2: and made her disappear. It's really difficult to tell which.
43:30
Speaker 2: But given all the information we have now, I'm more
43:33
Speaker 2: inclined to believe that it was a guilty conscience because
43:36
Speaker 2: of the affair. I'm thinking he could be linked to her,
43:39
Speaker 2: that he wanted to control the narrative, and that Dexter,
43:43
Speaker 2: in my opinion, is the most likely killer.
43:46
Speaker 1: That's what I'm thinking as well, because my main hole
43:48
Speaker 1: in Kirk being the killer is that he was supposedly
43:51
Speaker 1: one hundred miles away in Palm Springs that night, and
43:53
Speaker 1: I don't know how thoroughly investigators looked into his alibi.
43:57
Speaker 1: I mean, they could have let it pass because he
43:58
Speaker 1: was a big Hollywood star and would have a lot
44:00
Speaker 1: of influence to control the narrative of the investigation. But
44:04
Speaker 1: I also think it makes perfect sense that he had
44:06
Speaker 1: no idea that Jane was going to do something that night,
44:09
Speaker 1: maybe didn't even know that she was planning some sort
44:11
Speaker 1: of abortion. But then when he finds out about this
44:14
Speaker 1: note in the purse, he probably thinks, Ooh, they're eventually
44:17
Speaker 1: going to lead the investigation to me. I should preemptively
44:20
Speaker 1: come forward and confirm that I am totally not the
44:22
Speaker 1: Kirk and the note, and that's why he was coming there,
44:25
Speaker 1: even though a completely innocent person would not be thinking
44:28
Speaker 1: that the police are going to assume that you're the
44:30
Speaker 1: person listed in the notes, So he was doing a
44:32
Speaker 1: lot of damage control, and it was just a crazy
44:35
Speaker 1: coincidence that she wound up being murdered by a completely
44:38
Speaker 1: different persons such as her ex husband. But he still
44:41
Speaker 1: knew that this was going to balloon into a scandal,
44:43
Speaker 1: so he decided to control the narrative. And Dexter also
44:47
Speaker 1: got completely lucky that this note was found in the
44:49
Speaker 1: purse and that they were focusing all this attention on
44:52
Speaker 1: Kirk Douglas, so he was able to slip under the radar,
44:55
Speaker 1: and then once he got control of Christine, he was
44:57
Speaker 1: able to move to Florida and continue moving on with
44:59
Speaker 1: his life without being thoroughly investigated. So yeah, that seems
45:03
Speaker 1: like the most logical theory to me. But this is
45:05
Speaker 1: such a crazy quase with a number of twists and turns,
45:08
Speaker 1: and it's kind of ironic that Geene Spangler wanted to
45:11
Speaker 1: become this famous actress in order to become well known,
45:14
Speaker 1: but then she wound up becoming well known for completely
45:16
Speaker 1: different reasons because she became the center of one of
45:19
Speaker 1: the biggest unsolved Hollywood mysteries of all time, and overall,
45:24
Speaker 1: I am inclined to believe that Dexter being the killer
45:26
Speaker 1: is the most likely explanation. But if it turned out
45:29
Speaker 1: that she was killed by a completely different person, or
45:31
Speaker 1: she died during a back alley abortion and they disposed
45:34
Speaker 1: of her body, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised,
45:37
Speaker 1: because there are just so many different possibilities here.
45:40
Speaker 2: I agree, like, I think Dexter is the most likely scenario,
45:44
Speaker 2: and I'm about, like I said, sixty percent, leaning towards
45:47
Speaker 2: Dexter being the responsible party. But there's just so much
45:52
Speaker 2: information here, so many different possibilities, and we really don't
45:56
Speaker 2: have a lot of information. I mean, just for example,
45:59
Speaker 2: like the inf that Sophie gave about the scratches on
46:02
Speaker 2: Dexter's face, we don't have that confirmed anywhere. I'm inclined
46:05
Speaker 2: to believe Sophie, like why would she lie? But still
46:08
Speaker 2: without any kind of corroboration from law enforcement, it's hard
46:13
Speaker 2: to know if that is fact, if it's something being misremembered,
46:16
Speaker 2: But it is incredibly sketchy and suspect if it is
46:19
Speaker 2: indeed true. So we've got a lot of those details
46:22
Speaker 2: floating around that we're not quite sure if we can
46:25
Speaker 2: grasp onto them or not. But Dexter feels the most
46:31
Speaker 2: grounded of all the theories.
46:33
Speaker 1: That's what I'm thinking that a lot of this stuff
46:35
Speaker 1: is just sensationalism that was tied to the case, these
46:37
Speaker 1: other theories that have complicated the investigation. But it may
46:40
Speaker 1: just be the simplest explanation that she was dealing with
46:43
Speaker 1: an ex husband who was allegedly abusive and cruel, and
46:47
Speaker 1: she divorced with on bad terms, and then things just
46:49
Speaker 1: eventually escalated to the point where he wound up killing
46:52
Speaker 1: her and covering it up. But because she was a
46:54
Speaker 1: Hollywood actress with an association with a major star, and
46:57
Speaker 1: there was all these different theories about her being connected
47:00
Speaker 1: the Black Dahlia Killer or a bunch of famous gangsters
47:02
Speaker 1: like Mickey Cohen, it complicated the investigation and he wound
47:06
Speaker 1: up getting away with it. So any further thoughts on
47:09
Speaker 1: the disappearance of Gene Spangler.
47:12
Speaker 2: I think we've run the gamut with all these different
47:15
Speaker 2: theories and different explanations. I guess all I can really
47:19
Speaker 2: say is Florence is such a tragic figure in this story,
47:24
Speaker 2: and I know that she's passed away. But my heart
47:27
Speaker 2: really breaks for her and for Christine too, because you
47:31
Speaker 2: lost so much. You lost your mother, you lost your uncle,
47:36
Speaker 2: you've lost your grandmother, And it sounds like she could
47:40
Speaker 2: have potentially been brainwashed into believing a certain narrative. And
47:44
Speaker 2: she's lived quietly and not spoken out about this case,
47:47
Speaker 2: which is absolutely her right. Like you said, she's eighty
47:50
Speaker 2: two years old now or something like that. So I
47:53
Speaker 2: really hope that she had a happy life, and that's
47:56
Speaker 2: really the only thing that I could take from this.
47:58
Speaker 2: And I hope that in time time and as the
48:01
Speaker 2: years went on, that she was able to dig into
48:03
Speaker 2: this further and realize that her mother, Jean, loved her
48:06
Speaker 2: and that she really and truly was a good mother.
48:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the right spot is Obviously, for several decades
48:12
Speaker 1: you could only go by what her father told her.
48:14
Speaker 1: But by the time the internet became a thing and
48:16
Speaker 1: now you can access old articles and do extensive research
48:20
Speaker 1: into this case, she probably learned that, yes, my mother
48:22
Speaker 1: was a very loving person who cared about me, and
48:25
Speaker 1: it's very very unlikely that she disappeared voluntarily and abandoned me.
48:29
Speaker 1: So that about brings an end to our series. About
48:32
Speaker 1: the disappearance of Gene Spangler, and we will return again
48:35
Speaker 1: next week with another case.
48:38
Speaker 2: Robin. Do you want to tell us a little bit
48:40
Speaker 2: about the Trail Went Cold Patreon?
48:42
Speaker 1: Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three
48:44
Speaker 1: years now, and we offer these standard bonus features like
48:48
Speaker 1: early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers
48:52
Speaker 1: and signed thank you cards to anyone who signs up
48:55
Speaker 1: with us on Patreon. If you join our five dollars
48:57
Speaker 1: tier tier two, we also offer for monthly bonus episodes
49:01
Speaker 1: in which I talk about cases which are not featured
49:04
Speaker 1: on the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive
49:07
Speaker 1: to Patreon, and if you join our highest tier tier three,
49:11
Speaker 1: the ten dollars tier. One of the features we offer
49:14
Speaker 1: is a audio commentary track over classic episodes of Unsolved Mysteries,
49:18
Speaker 1: where you can download an audio file and then boot
49:21
Speaker 1: up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or
49:24
Speaker 1: YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in
49:28
Speaker 1: the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about
49:31
Speaker 1: the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very
49:34
Speaker 1: first episode that I did a commentary track over was
49:37
Speaker 1: the episode featuring this case. So if you want to
49:40
Speaker 1: download a commentary track in which I make more smart
49:43
Speaker 1: ass remarks about jewel Kaylor, then be sure to join
49:46
Speaker 1: Tier three.
49:47
Speaker 3: So I want to let you know a little bit
49:48
Speaker 3: about the jeweles and Nashty patreons. So there's early ad
49:51
Speaker 3: free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got our
49:54
Speaker 3: Path Went Chili mini's, which are always over an hour,
49:57
Speaker 3: so they're not very mini, but they're just too short
49:59
Speaker 3: to turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing those,
50:03
Speaker 3: so we hope you'll check out those patreons will link
50:05
Speaker 3: them in the show notes.
50:07
Speaker 1: So I want to thank you all for listening, and
50:09
Speaker 1: any chance you have to share us on social media
50:11
Speaker 1: with a friend or to rate and review is greatly appreciated.
50:14
Speaker 1: You can email us at The Pathwentchili at gmail dot com.
50:18
Speaker 1: You can reach us on Twitter at the Pathwink. So
50:20
Speaker 1: until next time, be sure to bundle up because cold
50:23
Speaker 1: trails and chili pass call for warm clothing.
50:26
Speaker 2: Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy