Latest / WoT Spoilers / Legends - The Gathering Storm chapters 34 - EP531

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Legends - The Gathering Storm chapters 34 - EP531 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're just actually gonna do one today, not because
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: this one's particularly chonky, but because the next one is
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: very chonky. Before it was pretty cannot be bundled, Yeah, exactly,
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Like this one just sort of exists between two that
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: could not be bundled. So all right, I guess the
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: last one was was a twofer, but whatever. I don't know.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: I make too many podcasts to keep trying when publishing.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: This one just kind of sits by itself. There's not
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: really any way to connect it to the ones around it.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: It's just a good match chapter. It's not particularly long,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: and there's not a ton to talk about, but it's
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: still a good standalone chapter that, like, I didn't want
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: to just merge into one or the other two, right,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: and it didn't fit well either way, So.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: The good is perhaps maybe doing a bit of heavy
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: lifting there. Given which Matt chapter it is.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, yes, it's the backstory chapter on Analysis on Reread.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: I don't hate it as much as I've thought I did, because,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: oh really, it's really only mentioned once in the beginning
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: of the chapter and once at the end of the chapter.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: And I see it as a reaction to Hinderstap that's
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: sort of a failed experiment on his character growth. I
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: don't like it, but I can see why it is where.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: I think it's a poorly executed idea, but I've come
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: to appreciate the idea behind it when doing my notes.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Interesting I going through it and reading it from my notes,
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: I felt like it is funny. It is subjectively like
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: this standalone slapstick comedy scene of like it's almost like
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: a who's on first kind of thing, And it is
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: objectively funny, and it is easy to imagine that this
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: kind of nonsense is part of the camaraderie that is
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: in the band and does like make the relationships between
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: them that like, this is the one time we see
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: it on screen, but this kind of jocular silliness is
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: actually part of what makes the rapport of the band work.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: And yet it also feels so like I would have
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: liked to see it, just it feels like such an
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: odd peak of this humor, if that makes sense, Like,
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, I can't think of a right and maybe as
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: we go through this we can think of a better
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: way to do what he's trying to do. But I do,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: for some reason, think that it's a it's a cartoonish version, right.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: This is Matt reacting. This is Matt saying, oh my god,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Hinder's tap was trying, and I want a plan before
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: I go into the next town in case something like
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: that happens again. But again it's the dark One stuff.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: So he does no idea what's coming, and he can
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: in no way predict it, and so he's overplanning. And
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: he's trying to show that with all the troops and
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: the backstories and like he's stayed up all night making
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: these plants. The plans are stupid. I would think Matt
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: would come up with better plans, Like I would rather
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: see him come up with extensive battle plans for like
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: if beatles come swarming out, we do this. If the
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: ghost army arises, we do that. If you know, couple
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: of us get trapped, we do this. Like all sorts
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: of scenarios like that I think would be more effective
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: than these elaborate backstories. But I see what he's trying
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: to do. He's trying to make Matt react to trauma.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's also like a deeply relatable way to
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: react in terms of where the readers are sitting, like
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: I'm going to respond to trauma with world building and
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: D and D and fan fiction and like that is relatable, but.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: It's also where it fails because it very much is
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: us going, Okay, we know Matt doesn't play D and D,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: and this feels like him just creating back. It feels
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: like a wink and a nod to D and D,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: which feels so out of place to me in the
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: wheel of time.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Right, It's like it is funny and it feels world breaking.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: It's really where like the Sanderson is really overshadowing the
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: Jordan in a way that's like a little sour maybe.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the part that I don't like
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: about it.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, But at the same time, you can see seeds
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: of this in that and the band other places, like
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: he is he is playing with real ingredients. Just the
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: execution comes out a little wonky, but yeah, it is.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: It's easy to rip on it for not being Jordanian enough.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Right, right, because it's very obviously not Geordan.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's not the point either, Like I say,
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: it doesn't need to be Jordanian. That's not the point.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: The point is. This is a collaboration between an old
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: and a new writer, and this is part of the
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: friction of those two styles coming together. And like it
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: is what it is, and we get Varren at the
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: end is great.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: And I think Varyn's very well written.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, as as per usual, Sanderson has an easier
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: time with the side characters than with the main characters.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: Even though Varren has been here forever and ever and ever,
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: she's never been a central character, so's she's free of
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: the main character issues that Sanderson has. And oh my god,
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: there's a chicken and chat. Yes, there is a live
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: picture of a chicken. This is fantastic. Thank you, thank
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: you so much, Nan Talk for sharing your chicken. Glorious chicken.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: I hope he's named as Modian.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: That's probably a hen.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Hmmm.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Still as Modion is a fine hen name. Now that
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: is actually a pretty good ConA. I'm looking at it. No,
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: that's that's a okay what yes? Uh, chicken butt, that's
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: a that's a chicken face.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Is chicken face? If you turn the chicken around, that
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: would have been funny. The chicken butt? Is that what
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: you're gonna do? We can take the picture of the
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: chicken backwards. Yep, there it is.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: There we go, chicken butt, chicken, but excellent.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: We might be of a generation okay, we.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Very well could be of a generation that is entirely possible.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: Should we get into this.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Chip, Oh god, please? Yes, I think I think chicken
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: butt is the right way to start off this chapter. Legends.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: Our chapter is the dice because it's a Matt chapter
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: and we are not creative with these headers at all
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: these days. And yeah, legends, which I assume is just
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: referring to his backstories. I didn't really catch which the yeah, he.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: Uses the word legend to describe the backstories. Later, when
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: he's attempting to do his who's on first routine with Mandowin,
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: He's like, it's not real. It's a story, a legend, gotcha.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: He wrote legends for them, which.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: You know, legends fade to myth like it really should work,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: it really should be part of the lore, and it's
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: just you know, yeah, all right, Matt said, unrolling one
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: of Rodell's best maps on his table. Talmana's, Tom Noel,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: julen Amandovin had arranged their chairs around the table beside
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: the map of the area. Matt unrolled a sketch of
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: the layout of a medium sized town. It had taken
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: some doing to find a merchant willing to sketch them
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: a map of true Stare, But after Hinderstap, Matt didn't
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: like to go into a town without knowing what they
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: were up against. Matt's pavilion was shaded by pine forest outside,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: and the day was cool. Occasionally the wind would blow
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: and a small sprinkle of dead pine needles would shake
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: free from the burrows above and fall to the ground,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: some scratching the top of the tent as they fell. Outside,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: soldiers called to one another, and potts clanged as the
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: midday meal was distributed. Matt studied the town map. It
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: was time to stop being a fool. The whole world
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: had decided to turn against him. Even rural mountain towns
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: were death traps these days. Next, he knew the daisies
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: on the sides of the road would be ganging up
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: to try and eat him. That thought gave him pause
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: as he remembered the poor peddler sinking into the phantom
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Chotin town. When that ghostly place had vanished, it left
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: behind a meadow with butterflies and flowers, including daisies burn me.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: He thought, well, mattrim Coffin wasn't about to end up
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: dead on some random backwater road. This time. He would
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: plan and he would be ready. He nodded to himself
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: in satisfaction.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: I love the hubris. I mean, you talk about Sanders
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: and not letting his characters be wrong. Matt is very wrong. Yeah,
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: all the axsertions about how he's ready and he's planning
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: and he's thinking of stuff, he's delightfully hubriantastic.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I think that sums it up. Like he's
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: just he's planning. He wants to plan, which is totally do.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Like what about Matt's luck, Like this is not That's
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: the other reason I think why this doesn't feel like
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Matt is Matt's characters quintessential charge in don't plan, depend
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: on your luck, No things will work out in the end.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: That's Matt's character, and so him making all of these
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: like elaborate backstories and plans. It's both him trying to
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: take charge of his fate, which he realizes that he
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: has to do. But at the same time it does
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: feel weird to have him not trusting his luck.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's that his luck has brought
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: him to things like hinderstap. So he's kind of like,
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: fuck you, I quit. I'm not using luck. Luck has
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: not been working out lately. I'm going to try planning.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: Maybe planning will work this time. And it doesn't at all,
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: you know, like it still effectively works out randomly, right,
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: we're not even randomly, but like the fact that he
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: plans it out like changes how it goes down, you.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Know, because the one he wants to go into the
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: town and surprise this woman who's been disturbing drawings off him,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: which is Varren of course we know.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, But by doing that, he clues her into
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: the field.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: His merchant, who immediately turns around and rides too, and goes, yeah,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: this the guy you're looking for. He's out there questioning people,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: and so she's like, okay, I'll go get way out
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: to you.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: Right. I didn't think that was how that went down.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: What did I say that was?
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: I thought, just as she heard that a merchant had
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: sold a map to someone. I didn't catch that the
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: merchant had known that Matt was the one of the drawing,
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: because Matt didn't actually do the purchase himself, right, He
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: sent someone else.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Where.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: This is not necessary.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: It's going to be at the very end, right. So
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: a kind merchant came to me in True Stair an
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: hour going explained he just had a nice meeting with you,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: and that you'd paid him Anson Lee for a sketch
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: of True Stair. I figured I'd spare the pole or
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: talent and assault by your associates and just come to
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: you myself.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, wow, I did not put together the You
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: meant that he was familiar with his face. Matt, You're
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: a dumbass. Why would you go in there with your
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: face bear when knowing that these posters are everywhere. I'm
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: so confused. I'm so confused. This is if you're trying
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: to plan, sir, Maybe try a touch of espiodage. I
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: would have sent literally anyone but you.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Right, He's got a whole army of people, and he's
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: the one questioning the merchant, who he then releases, who
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: goes right back into True Stair to tell Varren.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is comical, comical to a degree that feels
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: like Matt has lost half of his soldier brain for
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: purposes of this plot.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: First first paragraph of this chapter. It had taken some
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: doing to find a merchant willing to sketch them a map,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: so that merchant then Bright went off to tell Varon.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile he's making all his plans, all.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Right, Well, yeah, there at is Matt's plans or as
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: good as my reading comferent looks. But uncle, I'm just
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: modeling how to be wrong in public, all right. So yeah,
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: he talks about the strategy of what they're going to
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: do militarily, and then he gets into his backstory improv
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: comedy routine whatever is happening.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Which I didn't really highlight a lot through. It's like
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: he's giving people backstories. I didn't feel a need to
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: talk about the specific backstories or like I didn't see
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: any relation to who got what or anything like that,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: just other than they're bad.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: No, it's just funny. It's just a funny, slapstick ridiculousness.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Giving the old man the gleaman's apprentice role, right like
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: what doesn't make any sense?
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: And the thing remandov when is like I want a
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: backstory where I don't leave my ageed on like making
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: like a really big deal, like as big stink mandefit
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: makes a big stink about how his backstory isn't honorable
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: and like it's really funny, but yeah, there's nothing. It's
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: again very self contained. Nothing in this chapter really has
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: in terms of that stuff has anything to do with
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: before or after. It's just character stuff that stays here
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: in this one chapter. And it's really funny.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: It's bridge for banter if you guys, you know, for
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: storm Light Archive fans, Right, this is the kind of
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: stuff like, yeah, totally makes a group of guys hanging
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: out like Band of the Red Hand Bridge four, Like
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: that's it's a very similar sort of vibe in terms
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: of men's soldiers having fun with some that are somehow
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: lucky and able to survive battles that no one else does,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: and they attribute it to the prowess of their leader, right,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Like the parallels are unending between the Wheel of Time
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: and storm Light really are.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: And the other important part, or the only really important
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: part of all of this funny stuff is just also
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: emphasizing that Telmans is getting more and more dimension breathed
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: into him, more and more of his humor is getting
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: brought into the four, which is, you know, a good
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: setup for the fact that he's going to get a
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: lot of screen time during the last Battle, right, Yeah,
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: he needs to be fleshed out, and this is part
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: of that.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: He's being promoted from tertiary to secondary character. Right, yeah,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: he's he's he was Matt's head general, and we had trouble,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: you know, distinguishing him from his other general sometimes in
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: the early books. And now he becomes this major character
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: who gets you know, POV time.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Right, and also he gets the most elaborate backstory in
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: terms of actual words spent on his backstory. Again, just
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Sanderson being like, we really need to bring some dimensionality
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: to this guy, even to the point of Matt giving
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: him the really interesting role in his whole stage production.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: He's going to be the warder with a tortured past
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: at all of this, Like even Matt is like putting
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: more dimension into Talmanas.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Which is not to say there weren't lines that implied
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: that Talmanus was funny before, right, We found a few
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: of them.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: And like there was some dimension to this character. Sanderson
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: didn't create this dimension out of nothing, but he is
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: expanding on it quite a bit. He's taking one sentence
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: and making it a paragraph.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Right, exactly is he is saying this this sketch this
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: sketch can be filled in with more detail, This can
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: be turned into a photorealistic thing instead of an abstract form.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: But yes, he's very much working off of material that
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: existed before.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: I like him. He always has a bit of an
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: antagonistic relationship with the warders, right because the way he
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: like he spanked the isidai and they suspected him of it,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: and like there's always been a bit and so he
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: doesn't tell the warders that the women disappearing was magical
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: and they could have avoided it. He's just like, yep,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: you let him get away. I went back to town
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: and found him there. I don't know what you did
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: that you missed him into the warders that are like,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: oh my god, I thought I was good at this job,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: you know yeah, And Matt's like, well, you know, you
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: really fucked up, So yeah, you're gonna have to do
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: what I say. So I really like that sort of manipulation.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like Liz lend me your warter cloak, like without question,
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: without complaints. Just like yeah, It's it's funny seeing that
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: antagonism have a bounce back and forth, right, Like at
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: first he's scared of them, and now he's got, you know,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: something to lord over them.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And Tom Honus's line where Matt says, you're not
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: taking this seriously and he goes, is there someone who
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: is taking this seriously? Which I think is that's just
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: his great a great comeback right there, and really funny
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: line from Tom Honus that really amps up his character.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: He's so dry. I love dry humor. I really liked
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Sanderson's Tom Honest, Like he builds on things, that's Jordan's
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: set up, but he really sticks the landing on where
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: he decides to take it. I like Tom Honest.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Oh, and then there's this line Matt saying, I can't
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: go into the Flaming Palace myself since every bloody man,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: woman and child has a picture with my face on
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: it and a promise of gold for information. And you
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: just talk to a merchant who saw your face and
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: then you let him go confusing and he has a
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: picture of you and knows about gold for information.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: How it's very strict. But in I think in Matt's defense,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: this is how bad he is at planning. This is
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: why he has to do things randomly, right, This is
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: why he has to do things randomly because randomness will
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: force itself into his plans because it's the only way
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: that he can succeed.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: And in a lot of ways, he is lucky that
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: the merchant went right to Barren and told him because
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: that saved him on prime and effort, right, Like, that's
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: exactly that was the thing Luck wanted him to do,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: was informed the merchant.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: The plan was doomed to fail. You have to do
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: it randomly, and if you won't do it randomly, then
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: the pattern will. We've also got a thought here about
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: how he is really really integrating with his general memories,
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: that he's not having an issue with distinguishing them, He's
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: not upset with the fact that he has them. Like
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: the integration is like ninety nine percent complete with the
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: old memories.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: Which I think is just foreshadowing for Rand and talking
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: about how like you can integrate the memories and not
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: have them change you and just help them be a
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: part of you.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Matt seems to be getting saner all the time, right,
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: So clearly having old memories is not core to the
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: problem of insanity.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Then we see that later there is this line here
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: if he'd had a few bandage worth of those when
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: he'd fought it the blood wash falls. Perhaps naifsh Nashef
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Nasheff would have learned his lesson a lot sooner. And
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: he's like, oh, okay, yeah, that's just a reference to
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: a battle that he doesn't even think twice about, Like
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: he just references that, like he references the rest of
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: his life.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, yeah, totally.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: And we don't know anything more about that line. That's
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: all we ever get about it.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: And that's totally fine because that's where his integration is at.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: It's great. Something else I thought was worth pointing out
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: is that horses are refusing patches of grass because it
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: got bad like human food. Like I just think it's
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: not nice, but it's insuring that the dark One is
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: affecting the fuel of at least, you know, the main
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: draft animals that humans use, that warriors use.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Good world building. I'm one hundred percent on board with that.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: The corruption of the world and the desperation and the
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: lack of food, and you know, the why is everyone
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: being forced into an army, Well, the army is the
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: one people following the light who have food.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: We get a long digression explanation scene of crossbows, how
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: they work, how they work, mechanically as an individual, and
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: how they work as a military advantage with a group
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: of people using them. It's really interesting. I actually learned
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: something from this. It's just because Sanderson is such a
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: visual writer. I can actually picture what he's talking about
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: in a way that is like hard for me with
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: some writing, including Jordan's writing, Like this is so specific,
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: I can see it. It's pretty neat, giving us like
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: a second by second count of this is the military
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: force that Mac commands.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: And I think that's why I really love reading sanderson
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: sort of battle scenes and why I do really enjoy
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: his books is it's like watching an anime on books,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: like you can see it so clearly.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I'm really glad that someone with that skill
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: wrote The Last Battle, Really really glad. Robert Jordan's fog
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: of war style writing was not going to carry The
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Last Battle for me, you know, Like Sanderson definitely had
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: the skills to make it more my speed.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: I mean we saw some of that with Do My
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: as well. So I think that Jordan really did show
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: us his chops in writing Upfront not vog War battle.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: There sure, true, true, but he only ever used it
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: that one time. Well, no, that's not true. Shadow Rising
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: also had a lot of.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: That, and I do think that even the battle at
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: the Cleansing had a lot of that, just it was
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: a totally different style. It was like fewer, more powerful
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: individuals rather than big battle.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to the Sanderson Last Battle stuff. It's
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: it's just so ginormous. I don't know how we're going
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: to podcast it because it's an action scene, but I'm
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: looking forward to reading it with a fine tooth coat
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: because it is very detailed.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we'll find surprises in there that we
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: were like, Oh, I didn't realize that's what happened. Sure,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: yeah I did. Those Matt's split off his the bend
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: of the Red Hand. He doesn't have any foot with him.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Those are somewhere else because they weren't keeping up. He
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: was going ahead or just need a mobility to sort
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: of avoid I don't know what he thinks they're going
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: to deal with here, but he's like, word, he's gonna
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: have to run away.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's that when Talmanas came
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: to find Matt, he didn't bring any of the foot
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: with him because he's like, I don't know where Matt is,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know what we're going to run into, so
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: I'm going to leave the foot behind somewhere safe and
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: just take the more mobile cavalry. So that's why he
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: only has cavalry.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: I want to check in the next chapter, but I'm
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: not sure if they or next time we see him.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Actually it's not the next chapter, but if they go
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: get the foot, and they must bring them with.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: Them, they get together at some point, I forget. I
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: think that he might have actually sent them to and Or.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: I think Talmanas might have sent them to and Or
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: when he went to find Matt because they had to
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: leave Mirandi. But Mirandi is close to and Or, and
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: the plan I think was to meet up again in
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: and Or, I think.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: But yeah, they're heading to Camlon, right, m hm. It
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: just appeared that she just says she'll take him to Camblin,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: and then the next time we see him, him and
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: the whole band are in Kamerlin. So maybe we kind
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: of have to assume. I think that that she goes
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: they go and get the rest of the band with gateways.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure they marched to and Or on their
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: own because they were in Mirandi. Okay, and Mirandi is
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: so close to Andor. I'm pretty sure that TILMANI said
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go find Matt. You all hike over
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: to and Or because that's where we're going to go eventually.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure that was the plan, and that ar
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Varon hops over and grabs them from wherever they're hanging out.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: But I know they didn't get to stay in Urandi
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: because stuff was starting to get hot after they were,
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: you know, involved in the civil disobedience there.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: No, yeah, yeah, they had to go not.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: Civil disobedience, little Rhodron's whatever war that wasn't ntil war.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, appear that the plan, the plan wasn't headed for Kamblin.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: First is he needed to meet up with SCN and
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Deirdrid and secure needed information and supplies. After that he
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: can make good with his promise to Tom. Yeah, they
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: are headed to Camblin and he had the plan is
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: meeting with help with them there. So yeah, I could
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: see that they would wait.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: They're headed the slow way, actually walking like normal soldiers,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: not getting whisked around by eyes to die.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: So that was from an earlier chapter. But yeah, so
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: the plan exists.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: He does have some plans sometimes it's just immediate battle
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: plans that have to be more chaotic.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: But yeah, we learned about how crossbows are good for. Yeah,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: the whole crossbowl thing, I don't know how much.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: I think. The two things that are interesting about it
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: is that you don't really aim in battles per se,
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: You just fire in the general direction of the enemy
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: and hope. And also that you spend more of your
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: ammunition practicing than you do in actual fights.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: I feel like those things are both are true for
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: guns as well. Right, it's just sort of point and shoot.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: That's kind of why they're interesting.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: And these crossbows sort of are are a halfway point
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: between guns and skilled archers, right.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, with guns, obviously it's a lot
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: more work to recover your ammunition even than with arrows.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: With crossbows, sometimes the bolts shatter, sometimes they don't. Bullets,
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: you do have to reassemble and reforge them. You can't
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: just recover them and use them again, that's not how
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: they work.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: But it's much easier to make, you know, bullets, especially
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: the earlier ones were just little balls, right, so it's
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: easy to make a ton of those.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: So yeah, those are the two things I think are
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: interesting about it, and then also just the timing of it,
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: the way that Sanderson breaks it down by seconds, and
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: Matt being these are the seconds we need to shave
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: off in order to increase our military advantage.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: So and then he thinks about is there a way
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: to make them even faster? And I can't remember. I
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: seem to have an idea that they do make them faster,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: but I don't remember how, or I couldn't find it
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: in the rest of the chapters. Do you know if
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: there's a point later on where they do make those
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: crossbow bolts faster?
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: I feel like this crank is the big innovation.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: That's what I thought too.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think there's another breakthrough on crossbow technology.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: I could be wrong, but I don't think there is.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: I think they've already got that, and he's just maybe
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: setting the very basic groundwork for figuring out handheld guns.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: M Yeah, that's the only thing I'm thinking is just
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: maybe it's a precursor to guns.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because he's gonna have these and cannons, so it's
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: kind of like between those two things, you do kind
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: of end up at the concept of a handheld cannon
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: that has multiple shots loaded into some kind of thing somehow,
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: and maybe.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: If the idea of an automatic would come to him,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: I'm not really sure, Like it's kind of a big jump.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know, but you know,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Sanderson might have been like, maybe I get to write
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: an out rigor someday, and he was just kind of
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: like that, or maybe not even that, but just the like,
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Matt's going to have a life after, right, He's going
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: to have projects to pursue after, So maybe that would
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: be it. Oh shit, there's are such a thing as
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: a repeating crossbow. According to Vouji and Chat sharing a
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: Wikipedia article, it's associated with the Three Kingdoms era, invented
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: during the Warring States period in China. Huh okay, So
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: maybe Matt's going to figure out a repeating crossbow, or
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: you know, commission an engineer to figure out a repeating crossbow,
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: because Matt's not an engineer. He's a military tactician.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: And maybe you can crank multiple air for multiple errows
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: at once, and you know, if you've got a three
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: pet you know, then you don't have to crank, you
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: crank once, you know, Because he's like, oh, the slow
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: parts of the moving up and down. So you can
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: crank once for three different things, you're saving all of
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: that movement time.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can also have the strategy be to have
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: people work in pairs where one person's just loading a
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: crossbow and handing it to the other person.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Well, and that's kind of what I thought about when
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: he was talking about every fourth beat you can fire. Well,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: then you just get four teams and you're firing on
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: every beat.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Right, But that diminishes how many crossbows you're operating. Right.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Do you want to shorten your line or increase the
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: density of your right? There's always trade offs.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: M because you have a certain amount of people who can.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I guess if you had some people who
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: train on reloading and some people who train on shooting, maybe,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: but it seems like everybody should learn to shoot and reload.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Right, And the smaller of course you have, the harder
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: it is to justify that instead of just everyone take
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: the extra four seconds to reload your own bow.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: So then there's a bit between him and Eludra I
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: thought was interesting.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So once Matt's done looking at crossbows, he heads
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: over to the pyrotechnics division right and passes security aka
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Bail Doomon and gets to see Lylewyn as a apprentice,
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: almost to the firework making process, where Eludra is yeah,
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: focused on her work to get over the heartbreak of
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: seeing Matt Mary a freaking slaver making out with her
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: spartypants with the boom booms.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because there's definitely this like, oh, they were on
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: a path to something right, Like, it's not subtle in
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: this paragraph that they were definitely romantic sizing each other
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: for a bit.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: It's sad, it's frustrating. Eludra is a much better match
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: for him than literal slaver two on. He also can
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: still not respect lolbn's choice to have the name that
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: she has. He thinks about that and how he's just
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: a dumb ass. He doesn't realize he's a dumb ass,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: but he thinks very clearly, I am a dumb ass.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: I mean he does kind of think like, hey, it
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: wasn't her choice some you know, Noble told her she
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: had to do it, and she went along with it.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: It seems kind of dumb that she has to follow
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: these rules like it. I have some sympathy more for
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: someone who's like naming themselves based on their own beliefs
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: rather than having like this name imposed on them from
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: the imperial top. In a lot of ways, it's like
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: he's not respecting Tuon by not respecting the name more
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: than not respecting Llewellen.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: Just call people what they want to call.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's true, especially after.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: You've been together for months. Just give it up, dude,
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: come on.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: But I do think it's just so that we as readers.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: One of the reasons he does this over and over
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: again is so that we as readers go oh right
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: again and change your name to Llewellyn.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Sure, I mean, and that's fair because there's enough
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: named characters in these books without forgetting to mention that
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: people might have just multiple names.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So I think from if you're up here, just
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: like writing perspective, that's why that's always included. So you're like, oh, yeah,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: that's right, that's what's that's what happened.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: All right. So yeah, Matt comes in and Elutra's working
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: on a night Flower. So he looks at her desk
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: and sees all the plans for the dragons, and they
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: have a very interesting discussion about resources and bat Guano.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: As bat Guano, So I didn't. I wasn't really sure
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: of what why back guano was involved in the making
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: of black powder, so I looked it up, and bat
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: guan is a good source. You can purify it by
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: like boiling it in water and then putting wood ash
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: in there to react with some of the minerals, and
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: then what's left you take all that react that the
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: stuff that precipitates out and what's left in solution is
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: called pot ash or potassium nitrate, right, which is you
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: know it's a nitrate, which you know that's explode. It
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: explodes right like it's a big So that's one of
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: the key ingredients from you can use other sources of
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: manure or I think there's even some urine or something
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: like that. I wasn't sure on all the sources, but
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: like there's other things you can purify other than baguano
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: to get nitrates.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: But yes, basically any kind of like high nitrogen bodily way, right.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Urine is also a source that people have used to
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: get that or other similar compounds for other similar purposes.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: So but yeah, that's why baguano is apparently a good
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: source of nitrogen for making things go boom.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Yep, And I disagree with Matt that knowing how things
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: work makes them seem less miraculous. I'm deeply unimpressed by
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: that sort of logic. Those are the people who are like, yeah,
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: I learned about space and it made me feel small
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: and sad, and I just like, No, I learned about
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: space and I'm like, Wow, that's so cool.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: I would say it feels less like a miracle and
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: more like something that's just really cool and like part
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: of the universe. It makes the universe cooler and makes
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: things less mysterious and less oh my god, I don't
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: know how everything works, yeah, which just is so cool.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Like, I just like, how can that not make you
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: more excited? Matt whatever. Also, a Ludra has this great line,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: A miracle is what you asked me for. That miracle
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: I have broken down into a list of ingredients, a
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: feat which is in itself miraculous. Yes, I just love that.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Because, yeah, that's what scientists.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: To be able to take your or the concept in
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: your brain and break it down into an intelligible plan
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: on paper for other people to be able to work
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: with is an incredible skill. Like that translation process is
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: where so many scientists fail, Right, that's like where the
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: struggle is is communicating it, and like engineers, that's kind
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: of what they have to do. That's kind of I mean, yes,
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: scientists have to communicate too, but like engineers, like kind
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: of they make all these drawings. They have a whole
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: formalized language for saying whatever ginormous ridiculous thing. It's it's
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: very very cool.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: And then I love her, like and how much copper
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: and tin? You don't have a mounts here? And she's like,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: just all of it, everything, all of it, all of it.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Love that line. Yeah, what do you mean all of it?
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Oh? I guess it's a little ambitious. Maybe just all
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: of it from the four major nations of the known world.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: Maybe it should. Yeah, but it just tells you that
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: the size because these copper and tin means they're making
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: bronze can't, right, which they have to be incredibly thick
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: to contain the canon explosions because we're not talking about
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: steel here, so this is a relatively much weaker material,
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: and so it's got to be incredibly thick to withstand
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: all the worst the powder explosions can throw at it.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Right, right, because these are modified bells, right, That's where
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: she got the idea, apparently because bell founders are critical
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: to the project.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Well, I think it's more just I don't even even
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: know if bell bells were the concept, or she's just
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: thinking a metal tube and the best way to make
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: that is someone making a big metal tube would be
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: the bell founder. They would understand how to make and
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: cast something of that size.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: Right, But like they have bronze casting technology, Like that's
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: what they have to work with. Like those are the
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: constraints that she has to imagine her project fitting into.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: I'm sure that at some point she will engineer a
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: completely different like metallurgical design and like a whole new
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: furnace style. But for now, she's working with the fact
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: that bell makers have the closest thing to what she needs.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like steel is not I mean that
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: they have steel for swords, right and and other things,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: but steel's not common. Yeah.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Where why why is she not looking into doing steel
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: for this or Quendy are well, Quendy, are we know why?
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: Because the isid I still think that it's used in
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: making pottery into like better cups or whatever.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Dude, can you can you imagine making like the thinnest,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: most delicate shaped like cannon shaped object and then making
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: it quendyar and just being like, yeah, no, this this works.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: You could carry around one hand.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Great translucent enough that you can like see through it,
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: but like also.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Seriously hand cannon. Yeah, that's that's what I'm talking about. Like, no,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: I mean I feel like if again it's just done,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: think about D and D in this chapter for some reason.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: But if you really got into the mechanics a wheel
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: of time and started creating some like crazy ass Elizabethan
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: Tye technology, but add in like quendy R and add
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: in a few of the other little like magic systems,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: you can create some like crazy gun slingers. You can
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: create all sorts of just insane characters. Then you have
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: magical constructs.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: The opportunities are endless.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Because we have to bring back the green Men, clearly, clearly,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: right do you think they're gonna bring back green Men?
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: What do you think? How do you think they're gonna now?
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Because the last one died, they don't have a prototype
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: to work with.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: You think that has to be the whole turning of
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: the wheel again.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like unless the ogre decided to be like, oh yeah,
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: we have the blueprints for these nim creatures. I don't
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: know if the ogre are likely to volunteer that information,
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: if they even have it.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: Oh, yes, the best a mirror process. I've just watched
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: a video on that, which is apparently the video the
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: process by which you actually can create large amounts of steel.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: And it's possible to have a steel society where you
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: can have some steel. But if without the best mirror process,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: you're not creating it large enough quantities to really use
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: it for things like cannons.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: I will take your word for it, Slash, please send
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: a link that we can put in the show notes
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: that I can watch as part of the editing process. Now,
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: I don't think the Green Men came to the rand
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Land from another universe with the Ogar. I think the
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Green Men was created as technology in the Age of Legends.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they talk about magical constructs such as trollcs, and
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: I believe the Talks and the Green Men were created
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: from a similar sort of magical alteration of something living
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: to create something a little more intelligent.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: All the Troalks were done with the true power, green
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: Men done with the one power, and green.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: Men are clearly closer to trees than to animals or
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: closer to plants than to animals. I think the mushrooms
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: were included, which, like we need to point out mushrooms
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: are neither plants nor animals. They're closer to animals than
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: to plants, but that's like a very small matter of degree.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: They really are just their own thing. They're not plants.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: It's a reason you cook them totally differently, Like you
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: really can't overcook a mushroom. It's really really hard.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: It's so hard. Mushrooms are delicious. I love them.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: They cook like differently than flesh and differently than plants.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: It's just it's amazing. But they're still tasty.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: They're really really good. But they're not plants. And if
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: you conflagrate mushrooms and plants and you're doing science wrong.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: What do you think about this line where she says, uh,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: I didn't expect this dismisses dismissiveness from you, master coffin pessimism.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: She is a fond friend of yours, Yes, Like, is
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: he really that much of a pessimist or is it
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: just like what's going on there?
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: What he says is often very negative, Nancy, that's true,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Like the whole thing about what he says what he
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: thinks and what he does being different, Like what he
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: says what people hear is often very negative, very eye rolling,
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: very oh woe is me? And he's been especially that
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: way the past several weeks of plot. He's been extra
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: cranky and broody, and he's just, yeah, what he says
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: is never the cheerful thing, even if what he's thinking
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: is kind of sarcastic in a cheerful way. What he
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: says is often like really negative. And I don't know
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: why he has as many friends as he does, honestly.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: Lucky. And I see that, Oh, I guess yeah. And
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: here's this. He was uncomfortable around her a little bit.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: They've been getting close before too on and was that
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: pain hidden in the Ludra's eyes And she's like, oh no,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: I just don't want to make my cannons. I don't
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: care about the relationship. Stuff doesn't matter, even though I
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: did have feelings. She was definitely catching feelings.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: Bury herself and her work and pretend that she doesn't
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: have feelings because it's easier that way. Classic engineer like rejection.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: And then she says, you know, I have to make
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: one canon and test it before we can make a
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: lot of cannons. I need to really get my specs
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: in line. So you have weeks while I do my
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: testing of the first one to gather all the materials
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: to make hundreds of them.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: Right, How many do they make in the end.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: It's never exactly clear, but it's it's probably like a hundred.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: It will be my Yeah, that's what I thought was
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: like one hundreds seems like too many, but it's a lot.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: It is a lot, so yeah, probably around one hundred.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: It's like a division, yeah.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. They make like one squad of the
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: band like devoted to it, and then I don't know
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: how many other cannons they make. I think the band, No,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: the band has all of them, so yeah, it has
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: to be less than one hundred if one unit of
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: the band is in charge of being the cannon men.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: And she pushes him for an answer about when she's
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: going to have to have them ready, and he does
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: a taver in and kind of gets misty eyed and
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: says soon and it's very ominous. And then in response
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: to him saying that, she says, well, during the war,
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: you're going to need the forges for arrows and horseshoes
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: and other quick consumables, So like we really should be
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: getting on doing these big upfront capital investments now before
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: the war actually starts.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Before the forges, everyone's like I need plate, I need armor,
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: and then you're just going to be fighting, Like it's
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: gonna get so much more expensive to make these. Although again,
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: if you're going to the bell founders, aren't they going
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: using a very different kind of forge than the people
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: making armor and spears or this? It probably just all
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: get adopted.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: You would think, So, I don't know, Machinery can be
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: retooled pretty easily to do different tasks, like depending.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Especially just forages, right, Like you're melting metal, melting hot.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: Metal, right, Yeah, you could take all of the bell
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: founding stuff out of it, but like all the bells out,
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: but like leave the foundry part right and just be like, yeah,
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: you're not casting bells, you're just smelting or to take
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: over to the other place or whatever. Did you get
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: an answer on the number of Cannon's question?
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: No?
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: Nothing, Okay, we'll figure it out or decide on a
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: number later. We'll just decide on one if there is one.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: Provided you'd think that Sanderson would have come up with
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: a number though.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Ah, the Band of the Red Hand has set up
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: nearly one hundred dragons in four ranks across the roadway.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: That's a memory of light.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Nearly one hundred. Oh and then we've got a quote
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: in chat saying they still have one hundred dragons at
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: one point. Okay, so they maybe got slightly over one hundred.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: So around one hundred is the number that we should
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: be holding in our minds as we go forward.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: Which I think is what we said earlier. You can
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: quote us in the Yeah, we did that.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: That was the number. So we were right. That's good.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: Proud of us, Trust yourself, you know.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: Citation the Great Light dot Com excellent, love a fan resource,
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: I love arios art of Eludra me and this cannon
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: gonna fuck you up, all right. So next we have
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Matt very nearly getting his head bitten off by Lwyn
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: and dome On and tag team because he's like, you'd
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: better not take these cannon plans back to the shan Chin,
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: and she's like, how fucking dare you and bailed him
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: and has the excellent line, you do be swimming in
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: deep water right now, that deep water filled with lionfish.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: It may be time to stop splashing so loudly, like
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: your foot is halfway down your throat, sir, Like stop stop,
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: just stop. She's made her choice. She has made her choice.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: Do not go into the logic of how she has
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: made that choice. Just leave it alone. And then he says, okay, fine,
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: point take and I'm still taking the plans because I
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: don't trust a Ludra not to blow everything up accidentally.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: And they all think that's funny. And she allows him
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: to take the plans because, like it is legitimate that
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: there is a chance that she could fuck up and
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: then those plants, those plans would be for nothing, and
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: like she won't because she's a professional, but like it
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: is at least an honorable reason to want to take
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: the plans off site rather than insulting Lylewin's loyalty.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you remember, one backup is none. Two backups are one,
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: and always have something off site exactly exactly.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: She respects that these are exactly one hard copy of
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: these in the entire world. It's okay to move them
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: away from the big bottle booms because she's basically done.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: She says that she's done with them. They've been taken
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: as far as they can be done. She has taken
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: the calculations as far as they can be taken by her,
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: so like they are finished, she doesn't need to work
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: on them anymore.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: But knowing that makes him really frustrated that he's not
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: in Camlin now, because there's really nothing preventing them from
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: stopping making the cannons other than he needs to get
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: to Caitlin and that's going to take him weeks. If
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: only he had some sort of solution for that to
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: pop up out of nowhere.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: Ye yeah, this makes him much more amenable to Varren's offer.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: M and Yeah. He tries to get her to think
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: about the cranks on the crossbows and she says, no,
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: I'm just too busy you Let's find somebody else.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: Which fair, Matt. She's like completely buried in this one thing. Like, no,
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: she can't improve on a thing that just got a
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: massive upgrade, Like calm down. She's not a genius, or
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: she is a genius, but she's not super human.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: Right, even geniuses have to sleep sometimes.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: Exactly, She's still human. And then Oliver comes in, being
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: the adorable little kid messenger boy that he is. She
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: has a distinctive face whatever that means.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: I love the line. Maybe the men in camp were
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: right to be teaching and weapons with a face like that,
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: he'd better know how to defend himself.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, perhaps the kindest way to call him ugly
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: that we've seen in this book, but like.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: He's so ugly people will attack him just for his face,
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: Like what.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: Is this like Rome or something like good Lord?
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think it's more just like it's
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: really hard to talk your way as we talk your
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: way out of something if you're not like Matt has
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: pretty privilege and Oliver.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: Has these pretty privilege Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fair, the
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: oppression of the ugly.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: Matt's like, oh my god, I don't know what I
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: would do if I didn't have pretty privilege. Geez, that
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: must be terrible life. I was lucky and that pretty privilege.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: That is so true? Is so how mad is looking
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: at it?
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: So yeah, Oliver basically is saying this woman came in
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: with a distinctive face, which we know means you know, ageless.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: Right exactly. Tom Mones knows how to code the message,
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: even though Oliver does not know what distinctive means.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I can see him going going, uh dea stankd
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: have to face, like not knowing the word.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: What's distinctive, what's distinctive?
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: Distinct Yeah, is that smelling exactly?
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Her face doesn't smell. I don't understand. So yeah, Matt
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: runs over there and it's Varren. It's Varren. She's wonderful.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: We love her.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: It's great, and we get the line, you know, she's
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: been looking for him for some time and against her will,
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: I might add, which we later get the story about
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: how devereenness is preventing her from traveling. That's all. The
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: next time we see her A couple chapters A great.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: I guess what we could have done is just like
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: done that chapter as well and merge them out of order.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: Eh, so much work. I'm tired.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: Too, damn bad.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's it's good setup for the fact that
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: we're going to get a nice long Varian chapter later.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: We don't get it now. I was kind of like,
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: oh vern in this, It's like, never mind. I guess
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: we'll get more Varin later, but we are going to
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: get a good long story from her in Sanderson's voice later,
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: and then Tom Honest and Mandovwin, you know, call us
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: back to the silliness of the Legends thing. Does this
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: mean I get to go back to my aged aunt.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: Mandon Win is the really underappreciated comic in this scene.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: He plays the straight man kind of just the like, oh, yeah,
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: I believe the legends right away, m.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: Whereas Tom Honus is like, oh, I guess I won't
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: be a raid bummer.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: But yeah, we get the whole, the whole explanation about
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: how she heard about him an hour ago and now
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: he's hearing. He's like, oh, bloody hell, you must have traveling,
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: because there's no way it's a half day's ride. So
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: if you heard about it about us an hour ago
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: and now you're here, you must have traveled. And she's like, yep,
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: I'm guessing you need some traveling help. And he's like, yep,
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: I do. And she's like, well, I figured because Tameran
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: and I see it because Varren knows, she understands why
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: she's being yanked around.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: Varen knows, Varen knows it's a Varn knows kind of
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: time in the plot. Then yeah, it's very tempting to
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: him to have two weeks shaved off of Dragon production time,
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: like even more than getting his men out of the mountains,
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: getting those dragons into production. Is a good for the world,
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: much more than just his army.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: And good for the plot. Let's get let's get the
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: Band of the Red Hand into Camlan where like where
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: we can actually have some effect in the last battle
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: and Matt can rejoin and command the forces of the
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: last battle, which is his whole fucking you know plot
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: line was leading up to him being the commander of
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: the battle, right, Rand was always going to fight the
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: dark One while Matt commanded the battle, and Paren was
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: going to you know, be on the environment the battle.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: I would say, the general. I wanted to the general
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: leave the army, right like, if Matt was going to
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: be this strategist Paren was going to be you know,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: logistics and the battle, the head of the battle.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the morale officer.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: M hmm.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: Parent's the one keeping people focused and on task in
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: an emotional sense, whereas Matt and Elaine are working out
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: like where are the supply lines and all of that
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: more technical stuff anyway. Uh yeah, that's all I've got
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: for this chapter. Now, that's just the readout.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: Light twenty days shaved off his march. Maybe he could
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: get Ellugia's dragons into production soon. He hesitated, eyeing Paren,
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: forcing himself to contain his excitement. There was always a
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: cost to when ice die were involved. What do you want,
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: he asked frankly. She replied, sighing slightly. What I want,
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: Master Coffin, is to be cut free from your tavereren web.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: Do you know how long you've forced me to wait
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: in these mountains? Forced? Yes, she said, Come, we have
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: much to discuss. She flicked her reins, moving her horse
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: into camp, and Tilnus and Mandovin reluctantly stepped aside, letting
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: her in. Matt joined the two of them, watching as
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: she made straight for the cookfires. I guess there won't
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: be a raid, tom Ana said. He didn't sound sad.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: Mandovin fingered his eyepatch. Does this mean I can go
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: back to my poor agent aunt? You have no poor
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: agent aunt, Matt growled. Come on, let's hear what the
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: woman has to say. Fine, Mandowin said, But next time
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: I get to be the warder, all right, Matt. Matt
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: just sighed, hurrying after Varin.
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: I kind of wish there had been a next time.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: That would have been really funny to have them do
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: it better and have d try to be a warder
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: and just have that be Where the comedy was is
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: like he wanted to be the warder, but he really
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: can't be the warder. That haven't been funny? Owa, this was
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: this was all right. I had a good time. Short episode,
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: but I had a good time.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I had fun with I mean Matt chapters, even
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: even Matt chapters that don't feel super mat are still
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: fun and had some funny moments to it. And I
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: enjoyed that.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: And there's Varren and.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: Which will very quickly come to the end of Varren
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: I'm so, which is just oh, that's such Yeah, there's
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: there's so many good chapters coming up at the end
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: of this book, like the sand Lanche is just like
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: we've we've sort of hit a couple of those like
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: exciting moments, but really the sandal Lanche is still coming.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just a few chapters away, just a few
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: episodes away.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: All right. Well, thank you for joining us this time,
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: and we will see you next time.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate you all very much, and thanks for
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: the art religion that looks cool. Thank you for listening
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. Please rate and
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: review us on your podcast app, and consider supporting us
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: on Patreon for ad free episodes. Watts Spoilers is a
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: production of Fox and Raven Media. For more podcasts it's
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: from Fox and Dravenmedia, visit our website at Foxendravenmedia dot
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: com