Latest / UK Column Radio / Inside Venezuela After Maduro's Kidnapping — On-The-Ground Report | Silk and Steel

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Inside Venezuela After Maduro's Kidnapping — On-The-Ground Report | Silk and Steel · UK Column Radio

0:01
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Silk and Steel
0:04
Podcast. I'm your host, Carl Zar.
0:07
Today we have a very special guest, Diego Secuera, all the
0:11
way from Caracas, Venezuela. You know, as many of people
0:17
know, the world is a buzz with US kidnapping of Venezuelan
0:23
President Maduro and Trump is chest thumping about getting his
0:28
hands on the Venezuelan oil. There's a lot of conspiracy
0:33
theories floating around. So I thought, OK, why not talk
0:37
to a actual Venezuelan based journalist who is actually
0:41
living in the country. So, Diego, welcome back to to my
0:44
show. Thank you, Carl, always happy to
0:47
be here man. Yeah, I I'm always happy to
0:51
speak to you because, you know, the world outside, we don't
0:55
really know what's really going on in Venezuela.
0:58
So like people's information are being manipulated by a lot of
1:01
disinformation, camp disinformation and sign up
1:05
campaign on social media. You know, I saw people posting
1:09
AI generated videos of Venezuelan celebrating.
1:13
I mean, this is that's just sad. It's like people don't realise
1:17
they're, they can't afford to upgrade their computer's DRAM
1:21
because all the DRAM is being consumed by all these AI data
1:25
centres to generate these fake AI videos to support US
1:29
propaganda. So I'm I'm glad I have you here.
1:33
And please tell us what is life like right now inside Venezuela?
1:40
Yes, yes, I mean, yeah, I saw the AI videos also.
1:44
I mean it's and it's it is sad. I mean, it's like really it's
1:48
interesting because it's like a like a low point that it's
1:53
evinced that it has always been there.
1:55
But it wasn't just there wasn't the circumstances to show it,
1:59
you know, in full force like we're seeing right now with this
2:02
kind of restoring to this kind of resources to try to make some
2:07
narrative fit. Because yeah, there's no, there
2:12
hasn't been any kind of celebration regarding what
2:15
happened here on January the 3rd.
2:18
No demo, No, no, no, no one challenging authority, by the
2:24
way. And, you know, trying to push
2:26
further the regime change idea and and tactic that seemed to
2:32
happen. And if this is not the case, you
2:35
will find of course, celebrations, especially the
2:39
early days from, you know, Madrid and Miami, Buenos Aires,
2:45
but I mean, other cities in which that I asked for a yes,
2:49
they really celebrate it and they justify it.
2:51
And they got also pretty bad backlash from, you know, from
2:54
the media. So the social media sphere here.
2:57
And I'm not talking now about mobilised militant Chavistas.
3:01
I'm talking about common Gen C kids that went through it living
3:06
in Caracas. And they're just like recalling,
3:08
well, I remember this guy talking tough about what to do
3:12
in Venezuela. And I'm waiting for him right
3:13
here. I'm waiting for you.
3:15
And then comes, you know, different, different cursings to
3:18
this kind of person because, yeah, I mean, that's that's one
3:22
of the and that's a very Venezuelan way actually to
3:25
demand to put your money where your mouth is and like say, OK,
3:29
here, here it is. Just come over and fight, fight
3:34
it. I mean, we're, we're waiting for
3:35
you. And of course it's not going to
3:36
happen even on a, a hypothetical full regime change situation in
3:43
which I mean, it was, this has been turned upside down.
3:46
And yeah, my Corina Machado gets into office or whatever.
3:49
I mean, any, any US pet project and they won't come.
4:00
They won't come by either. I mean, I'm telling you, I don't
4:01
know when. I mean, it's not true that these
4:03
these people are actually going to come.
4:04
Because I also stress this a lot.
4:07
I'm not talking about all the Venezuelans that are outside of
4:11
the country. I'm talking about the ones who
4:12
are able to actually engage constantly on social media that
4:16
have the time to do it. And of course, the money to do
4:19
it. Because you know what regular
4:21
normal rank and file Venezuelan that's living in a city like
4:25
Madrid, Madrid, it's probably dealing with tough jobs on
4:29
services or something, you know, which demands a lot of time and
4:33
hours and struggling and making ends meet and so on.
4:36
So it won't have that time to, you know, to develop all this
4:43
posts. So yeah, I mean, that's the
4:46
spending that one at first. I mean, there's no celebration
4:48
inside. And then there are many reasons
4:51
why you're not, they're not celebrating precisely one of
4:55
them. I think it has to do with many
4:57
people didn't support this. Maybe they didn't support the
5:00
government, but they didn't support this kind of quote
5:03
unquote resolution, this kind of development.
5:07
They never agreed and it's on it's and it's in the polls that
5:11
came over this last month. They didn't agree with US taking
5:16
charge of, you know, solving, quote unquote, the situation and
5:19
the Venezuelan situation. It's something that if there is
5:22
a situation, it must be solved among Venezuelans.
5:25
And actually these kind of things, of course, prevent it
5:29
from happening. I mean, they have to do this
5:31
kind of stuff also to prevent any sort of, you know, internal
5:36
process that could end up, you know, healing a pretty much
5:40
embattled society and and spelling it off this artificial
5:47
dividing lines that sometimes are there and sometimes,
5:51
sometimes it could be closer to reality.
5:53
But they said that sometimes they weren't.
5:54
They weren't there that they wasn't, I mean, there was no big
5:58
gap between, you know, engaging with people who are actually
6:01
have the their politics and on the opposition side, even crazy
6:05
opposition level. I mean, I have I still have
6:09
people who I talked to and who weren't happy, by the way, and
6:12
actually could be even more scared than the Teresa's in this
6:14
case of what could happen after this.
6:17
And then you have also the recent experiences of people who
6:22
for any reason left the country, move, walked or something,
6:26
because this also happened at some point.
6:28
It was quite hyped by the media, walked around, reached Peru, for
6:32
example, and then started to having like the xenophobic
6:35
experience of being there. And then the word that was
6:38
offered by previous presidents grant, you know, ensuring you a
6:42
salary and so on started it suddenly becomes fake and sour
6:48
at the same time. And you start walking back to
6:50
Venezuela and suddenly you have the possibility to go to the USI
6:52
mean, and you end up in the US And then you end up on a chase
6:56
because of your TDA and then Trinidad and the whole stunt and
7:00
then deported and brought back by the government.
7:03
You know, this kind of people also have a very different
7:06
notion and experience of what's actually going on.
7:09
And these are also people who are who are who know now well
7:13
the belly of the beast, the beast, if we if we quote Jose
7:16
Marti. So, yeah.
7:19
And this is the sense of shame also.
7:21
So overall, what I'm trying to say here to this point is that
7:24
there's no upheaval, There's no unrest.
7:26
There's nothing of that sort. There are other manifestations
7:29
of the aftermath. Yes, they are.
7:31
But they're not that. Not not those, at least.
7:34
So is it sounds like it's almost a life just goes on in in inside
7:40
Venezuela after this event with no, you know, I'm sure there's a
7:45
lot of discussions, but it's are you saying people are just going
7:50
about their normal lives right now?
7:52
So far and to and to an extent, I mean, you know, it's, I don't
7:58
know, I mean, the experience of being bombed, I think of course
8:03
it takes a bit more time to, you know, to find, you know, more
8:09
shaped idea, you know, closer to its sexual form or something.
8:13
Regarding experience, because it is, it was traumatic.
8:16
I actually wasn't here when that happened.
8:19
I was travelling and I was actually, I, I had to, yeah.
8:21
I had to cross the border that day from Colombia.
8:24
So I had a very different experience of what happened.
8:27
And even as someone who has been born and raised here, I feel
8:30
like a sense of guilt of not being here, you know, in that
8:33
sense, you know, in a, in a, in a wider empath, empathical area
8:40
level, you know, a feeling what has happened here.
8:44
And you even got places that were actually militant against
8:47
charisma. I mean, municipalities that were
8:49
never had a, a Chavista mayor that were actually, well, part
8:53
of the collateral damage. I don't know how many fatal
8:57
victims that were there, but there was a lot of property and
9:01
infrastructure harm house being destroyed, you know, so it's so
9:06
it, we are not used to this. And I'm not trying to, you know,
9:10
make a pun out of this because I don't have we're used to play a
9:13
lot of other things. But with this experience,
9:16
because of how sure it was also it takes a little bit more time
9:19
and it's it is kind of weird. Just for my audience, because
9:24
you keep on referring to opposition party etcetera, for
9:28
the people who have been missed, maybe misled by US propaganda,
9:33
Venezuela is not a dictatorship. It's in fact a democracy that
9:38
whole elections there are opposition parties.
9:41
It's not a one party state. And you know, of course US would
9:47
dispute those elections. But the the election has been
9:50
observed by many countries around the world.
9:54
And, and, and Speaking of which, did you just see that Trump
9:59
throw Machado under the bus when he publicly said, well, I, I
10:03
don't think she will be back to Venezuela because she just
10:07
doesn't have enough support back there.
10:10
I mean, Trump himself publicly admitted Machado is just their
10:14
puppet with no support, with no support inside Venezuela
10:18
whatsoever. Yeah, and and I don't know if
10:21
you also saw what she went to the White House today and and I
10:28
mean, and she basically like went into the through the
10:31
kitchen door or something. I mean, she she didn't have any
10:34
protocol and she actually, she didn't have enough to say when
10:38
she came out because, you know, part of the of the stunting was
10:41
going to be she was going to give her noble medal to him.
10:44
And I think she did. But there's no significant
10:47
reaction after this. So it's even more, you know, it
10:51
it is it is that low point where we are talking about that
10:54
actually exposes to the core the nature of that kind of quote
10:59
unquote leadership and the and the origins and the anthology
11:03
even, you know, of this kind of characters.
11:06
And yeah, it also it is important, yes, for people to to
11:10
understand that not only there's opposition, but it might occur
11:14
in my channel represents the the most extremist faction of the
11:18
opposition, the most pro US. There's legal opposition as
11:21
well. And yeah, it's true.
11:23
I'm being emphatic about, I mean like longing, you know, almost
11:26
an autopilot stressing that part because I, I, I really care for,
11:30
for people to understand this and, and regarding.
11:34
Yeah. And also casting Maricarina
11:37
Machado in a different light and not the one that has been
11:39
overblown and hyped by the by Western media.
11:43
I even today, Carl, I had an interview in which it was, yeah,
11:48
was a the English version of a Middle Eastern network, a big
11:52
one asking me the whole Machado thing wasn't like felt like
11:57
massive betrayal of the Venezuelan democratic cause in
12:00
Venezuela or something like that.
12:01
And we come on. I mean, no, it does it, it, it
12:05
doesn't. That's only something that's
12:07
happening outside Venezuela. That's something that the gap,
12:10
the narrative gap, it's massive, you know, and it's different.
12:16
Yeah. Did you also see that Trump
12:20
conference with the US oil majors?
12:24
The he was talking, Trump was talking to the US oil major
12:28
executives as if he already owns the Venezuelan oil and he's
12:34
discussing how to divide up the spoils.
12:37
And, and interestingly, all the oil executive is telling him,
12:42
OK, no, no, no, we actually have to invest a lot of money into
12:47
Venezuela to make the, you know, to, to get the enough return on
12:53
investment that we would like, you know, we would much rather
12:57
invest that money somewhere else in Guyana or, or, or Canada.
13:02
But the, The thing is that the, the whole Trump premise that is
13:06
that, oh, we got to get our hands on the Venezuelan oil, not
13:10
China, but it's because the US sanction that Venezuelan, only
13:17
10% of Venezuelan oil goes to United States.
13:20
And, and that's what the Chevron executive is trying to tell him.
13:23
It's like this is because U.S. sanctions, this happens.
13:25
So sometimes I don't even know if Trump really understand how
13:29
the oil business work because it seems like he's running the
13:34
running the show pure on instinct.
13:36
I mean, he's a man that runs on instinct, maybe not too much
13:40
knowledge. Well, you know, it was, yeah, if
13:45
you follow the clips, it was like a constant blooper in how
13:48
they were actually ruining the substance of the word.
13:53
He's just said several Truth Social posts before that moment.
13:59
And funny enough, yeah, there are there are different
14:01
reactions they also get. That also happened with
14:02
Halliburton. I mean, at some point they say,
14:05
well, thank you for this and we trust your team and so on.
14:08
And when when we left Venezuela in 2019 and he asked why did you
14:12
leave? And he said because of
14:12
sanctions, you know, I mean just in front of him.
14:17
And also it it is a world by itself because if you saw Exxon,
14:23
what it was a very much different reaction to others
14:26
because basically what Exxon, the subtext of what Exxon was
14:29
saying or complaining about and saying it was uninvestable
14:33
because they used that word was precisely that the the framework
14:37
hasn't the framework and the legal system and the law and the
14:42
hasn't changed. So he's so they're basically
14:45
complaining about this hasn't gone full regime change.
14:48
And I know that. I mean, you have to I'm yeah,
14:51
more than sure. It's not it's not a gut feeling
14:55
thing. I mean, Exxon has a big role
14:57
behind all of this. If you follow the money and if
15:00
you follow the sponsorship of what's have been pushing for all
15:04
of this, starting with Marco Rubio himself, you know, and how
15:08
much Exxon has poured in his what whatever PAC system he has
15:13
and funds and whatever. So it's funny because, yeah, you
15:18
have those nuances there, but the overall picture is we cannot
15:21
do what the the thing that you're saying we have to do and
15:24
how reality Trump's Trump, you know, in in the sense of this is
15:29
what happens when. Yeah, some energy realism comes
15:34
into play even by companies that are militant in that sense.
15:38
And not only that, I mean, as far as I know, as far as I've
15:41
been following the conversations regarding and the agreements and
15:47
how the the framework will be for the companies now, the US
15:52
companies now, it's not different from the one that
15:56
Biden already had with Chevron. This is important.
16:00
So there's no major development there either.
16:03
There's no direct control over resources like he's trying to
16:08
say. And he's doing what he's able to
16:12
do outside of Venezuela one more time, regardless of other
16:17
things, I'll comment that further further on, but to the
16:20
point, but it shows something else.
16:23
A very smart and close friend of mine was saying this had there's
16:26
no plan. There's no actual plan.
16:29
I'm not saying they're they're they're operating on a vacuum.
16:32
I'm not saying that maybe there's like a Frankenstein, you
16:35
know, build up of a lot of inputs from different plants and
16:39
different things that are playing sacrificing some chips
16:42
like Michaela herself, which is a Marco Rubio acid and doing
16:46
this and there. So there's no a coherent plan or
16:50
or they're gas lighting us into what the actual plan is.
16:54
I don't know. It's, I mean time will tell
16:57
which one is the actually the most accurate one, the most the
17:02
ones that reached the closest. Because there was today, for
17:06
example, a, a piece by CNN saying that Trump was engaging
17:13
with private military companies and the whole private, you know,
17:17
PMC system, which also includes guarding infrastructure and or
17:21
even reconstruction. And so and the how interest they
17:26
were in Venezuela, but I mean, this is also operating from a
17:30
void in the sense of like there's like they are actually
17:34
in control of the fields and so on, which is not happening
17:37
either. And it's like, and I guess it's
17:39
a way also to accelerate the, the, the, the, the way to
17:43
guarantee to this big oil Hotshots to actually get into
17:48
Venezuela once and for all. Or we or, or, or it's, it is
17:53
only the gassification, the gassa paradigm of war just just
18:00
coming over. You know, because this was a
18:02
component, it wasn't as visible as the AI, the screening, the
18:06
survey, the target banks, the use of electronic warfare during
18:11
that early morning of the third. Everything was already there.
18:14
This was the part that was missing of that Gaza scheme that
18:17
has been created after genocide and has been tested there and
18:21
has been became some sort of war package.
18:23
You know, maybe that's it. And well, this is just, you
18:26
know, allowing Trump to be the car bumper that's going to just
18:31
deflect all the attention of paper trends in larger fights
18:35
that are going on. So at the at this moment,
18:40
precisely because of the amount of obfuscations thinking about
18:42
to to to finish that point the hardest, the the post the
18:50
furthest is from control, it seems.
18:52
For example, they want to self publish himself like with a
18:56
Wikipedia entry saying Venezuela's acting president.
19:05
Yeah, I mean, like it's, it's amazing.
19:08
They already talk as if Venezuela already capitulated.
19:12
You know they are are they already act as if they already
19:16
own Venezuela and the Venezuelan oil field when it's far from
19:21
that. And based my understanding and
19:24
based my talk with other experts, Trump is a man who you
19:30
know who he acts out of instinct not.
19:33
I don't think he has a long term plan.
19:36
When you say it doesn't look like they have a plan, I don't
19:39
think they do. But Trump likes those big, you
19:43
know, like the Photoshop moments where he can pronounce victory.
19:49
This is this goes to, you know, this is how he concluded the 12
19:53
day war against you wrong when he did a glancing blow against
19:57
the Iranian nuclear facility. And then he declared victory.
20:01
He declared himself peacemaker. And it's the same with
20:03
kidnapping of Venezuela, Maduro, because it's flashy, it grabs
20:08
the headline. This allow Trump to gather the
20:12
spotlight, declare himself the victor.
20:15
And as you say, it's also distraction, distraction from
20:18
very real problem of Epstein violence because even a lot of
20:23
people among his Mogga supporters are demanding the
20:26
government to release Epstein violence.
20:28
This level of distraction by by going on a warpath, you know,
20:33
distracts the country from domestic problems, which US
20:38
faces a lot. You know, we have the, we have
20:40
the Epstein file hangover Trump. And then we have the, the
20:44
problem of ICE, you know, basically not only brutalising
20:48
immigrants, but also American citizens right now.
20:51
They just shot a, a white woman, you know, and, and, and, and so
20:57
so the country, United States is really divided at this point.
21:01
And a lot of the people, it must be stressed survey after survey,
21:07
majority of American public do not support Venezuelan
21:11
intervention. But you know, Washington, you
21:15
leave the it's, it's totally different because they're not,
21:18
they're not held accountable to what the American public
21:22
actually want and. Yeah, they don't care.
21:24
And. Forge exactly and for Trump,
21:27
this is all about himself. He's gathering personal glory.
21:31
He's he's he's looking for a legacy.
21:34
He's looking to build legacy as the Great American president.
21:39
Now he probably won another head of him carved on Mount Rushmore,
21:43
you know so and this is this is his his attempt to build
21:47
personal legacy. So I don't think he's he's
21:50
worried about, you know, U.S. companies spending $186 billion
21:56
investment over a period of 16 years in Venezuela.
22:00
That is far beyond what his scope.
22:03
You know, he he will be out, way out, out.
22:06
He will be out of office for a long time before that happens.
22:09
So I don't think he cares about that.
22:11
You know, he doesn't care about a so called U.S.
22:14
National interest, whatever those might be.
22:17
And he is doing this for himself and.
22:22
His and his morality, I mean, he said it when that interview.
22:26
I mean, that's enough. That's enough.
22:28
My morality is like the limit of what's going to happen, I mean.
22:33
Yeah, yeah. That's that's why we're in the
22:38
kind of this weird mess right now where it looks like America
22:43
is just, you know, flexing military muscles everywhere, not
22:48
just in Venezuela, but also, you know, against you wrong now
22:52
against NATO, a NATO country, the Denmark over Greenland,
22:58
because this is all trunks personal project.
23:01
But but, but having said that, I think the whole VIN is rolling
23:04
operation also fed into presidential ambition of Marco
23:10
Rubio because let's face it, this is Latin America.
23:14
This is called Latin US project in Latin America is Marco
23:18
Rubio's baby and he definitely has presidential aspirations.
23:23
I think he's this is part of him.
23:25
He sees that as a stepping stone.
23:28
All politics is domestic politics and and I think this is
23:32
how US is projecting its own domestic problems upon the
23:37
global, global world. But what about Venezuela?
23:43
What about, you know, you know, currently, I know the acting
23:49
president of Venezuela has already publicly rejected, you
23:54
know, denounced Trump in no uncertain terms.
23:57
So do you think is there? Is there, you know, that This is
24:04
why the oil majors have been complaining there's no regime
24:07
change And, and, and so right now, is that your reading as
24:14
well? I mean, because I know there are
24:15
a lot of conspiracy theories floating around about, oh, maybe
24:19
a secret deal was made or maybe even Maduro give himself
24:23
voluntarily in order to avoid escalation.
24:28
What's your take on that? Yeah.
24:31
You know, I think that we, we still have to wait for some
24:35
things to answer themselves to a point.
24:38
I mean that it's going to be more closer to definitive, you
24:41
know, and regarding many of those question marks, even my
24:47
everybody has, you know, some details would would be nice to
24:53
see a, a, a further explanation or, you know, some, some gaps
24:58
that that don't, that are well, it brings up question marks, I
25:02
suppose, but in but, you know, coming from here, I know this
25:06
kind of things also. It's usually the case and we'll
25:09
have some responses. It's probably with receipts and
25:14
usually they take the time to do the research and usually release
25:16
it when there's no nothing ongoing that's has that's
25:20
usually the way. So, yeah, it's anti climatic in
25:24
the sense of media expectancy, you know, and, and, and it's and
25:28
it of course it could allow many kinds of many sorts of
25:33
speculation regarding how this actually happened and why.
25:38
But beyond that point, because I think that, yeah, I might be, I
25:44
agree with some and maybe with some others.
25:46
I just don't up to this point, what we have is precisely that,
25:53
yeah, there's no actual rating change.
25:56
It was a kidnapping, some something unprecedented, as
26:01
unprecedented as the scenario that has been unfolding ever
26:04
since this started. And also also the way that even
26:13
to that short moment, there wasn't something I don't know, I
26:19
don't know. I mean, I wonder myself how much
26:22
they actually planned the fact that we're going to deal not
26:25
with the with the president, but the vice president nevertheless
26:30
and the whole system which is basically intact.
26:33
It is under extortion, I might say blackmail at this moment.
26:38
Of course, there's a lot of strong arming as you have seen
26:41
and it quite ham fisted and actually it has created shock
26:44
waves that has already had many reactions, unexpected reactions
26:49
outside of the usual regarding Venezuela, for example, some
26:53
Western countries like Spain, for example, condemning openly
26:59
or Germany. Germany's President Frank Walter
27:03
Steinmeier said it was an act of barbarity.
27:05
It was a barbaric move by a barbaric empire or something
27:07
like that. I mean, I'm paraphrasing, but
27:09
even to that extent it has brought a lot of of shock waves.
27:15
And so far at this point, I mean, the state, the way it has
27:19
all this been organised, it was done according to Venezuelan law
27:24
in the Venezuelan system operating at that moment of,
27:27
yeah, of something that's completely new to its history.
27:31
So it's new also to its legal framework.
27:33
But it also, but it was also to some extent already contemplated
27:38
on part of the, of its constitution.
27:40
And this is the way the, the Supreme Court, the Supreme, you
27:43
know, the, the judicial power decided, it ruled according to
27:48
the interpretation of the constitution and set up the
27:52
legal framework for what comes next, which is precisely the
27:55
vice president assuming in this case acknowledging that the
27:58
president was basically kidnapped.
28:02
But this is a person who's actually responsible for
28:04
stabilising the country, who's actually responsible for
28:07
implementing minicoras, Maduro's plans sanctioned by him, planned
28:13
by him. And she's also pretty much a
28:20
person that hasn't given any big significant concession of all
28:27
this time like to, you know, to to like suggest something weird
28:30
there. And I because I actually ruled
28:32
it out. There is also a person whose
28:35
family was, well, basically fractured during the 70s.
28:40
His her father was Jorge Rodriguez, who was a left wing
28:45
political leader, a very charismatic one.
28:48
I wonder why I actually moved a lot of people was it was
28:51
important and he wasn't basically tortured to death by
28:54
the government back then. So she also has that in her
28:58
family experience. So it's not that easy also.
29:01
I mean, also people because don't know her that well also
29:05
thought think, for example, that she's being a woman.
29:07
She's not tough enough for this kind of situation.
29:10
And boy, they can be wrong about that as well.
29:14
And we're seeing and we're seeing precisely how this is a
29:18
situation that has been managed step by step in a way that it's,
29:25
it has been also telling, I mean, about keeping up the basic
29:29
tenets at all levels of what actually means and gives
29:34
substance to the Bolivian revolution.
29:37
And at the same time manoeuvring with this kind of, you know,
29:41
cycle with a gun, we have actually threatening all of us
29:45
at the same time. I actually if I, I was thinking
29:49
before we joined, I joined the show about how we are seeing
29:55
like two different constant OODA loops going on at this moment
30:01
for different reasons. Of course. 1 manoeuvring in the
30:05
scenario that it has been, it was analysed and based on a
30:09
plan. It was already written and
30:12
designed and discussed by Nicolas Maduro himself.
30:15
This is something that has been addressed by his son who was a
30:18
who was a member of Parliament and also the vice President.
30:22
So this was actually thought through before it could happen
30:25
as one of the possible scenarios in which something could happen
30:29
because they were the the threats were serious enough in
30:33
that sense. So here we are now precisely in
30:36
this kind of uncharted waters in which every step it's, I mean,
30:47
it's new in that sense. You know how it is being managed
30:50
and it has included a lot of a lot of threats.
30:53
Again, you know what, you don't have to threat the people that
30:56
you are that are actually working for you and cooperating
30:58
and being loyal to you, regardless of the flashy moments
31:01
on the phone calls and so on. This is still political.
31:05
And this also has a lot of political theatre in the sense
31:08
that you have to manage what there is, that you have to
31:10
manage the characters you're facing.
31:13
Psychology has a massive place here if you're actually facing
31:17
Trump among, among other among, you know, precisely him.
31:25
So it's interesting. And it's a very complex process
31:28
that we are actually engaging right now.
31:31
And it's still, I think, a struggle for survival.
31:34
And now it's a national thing. It's not important that it's
31:36
exclusive of one political affiliation.
31:41
Speaking of national survival, US is still maintaining a naval
31:46
blockade. Venezuela basically chasing down
31:49
and seizing oil tankers that's coming to Venezuela.
31:52
They're picking up the oil. This is this is an economic,
31:56
this is an economic warfare. They are trying to strangulate
32:00
the Venezuelan economy which is very much depend on oil export.
32:05
Has that have a spillover effect right now on everyday living
32:11
situation inside Venezuela? The current oil embargo.
32:16
Yeah, well, to what I've seen, I mean nothing to be far beyond of
32:22
the usual. You have two elements to take
32:23
into account here. If December, it's like the last
32:27
time we talked, it's like the holiday moment and happiness and
32:31
and spending and whatnot. January's hangover month here,
32:35
you know, in a in a very economic sense as well.
32:39
It's a slow month, reposition of goods takes longer, prices are
32:44
just and we still have the issue about the currency vis A vis the
32:48
dollar, which is, by the way, central to what's going on on
32:52
the big picture regarding precisely the urgency to
32:56
preserve some sort of quote unquote value to the Petro
33:02
dollar. The bad the the, the hard way,
33:05
of course. So only on the level that it was
33:10
that it hasn't changed. It has intensified a bit
33:13
regarding yeah, the price of the currency fee vis A vis the
33:17
dollar and therefore to buy goods and the markets and so on.
33:21
And also dealing with it, which is a use of the case in
33:24
Venezuela and other sanctions with parallel markers that also,
33:28
you know, try to play with the actual figure of the dollar that
33:34
day. You know, that's it.
33:35
They've got that kind of speculative things, devices.
33:41
You can see when it happened in Nicaragua, what happens in
33:44
Nicaragua, what happened in Argentina.
33:45
I mean, this kind of, you know, outside of the legal framework
33:49
pricing of the US currency for whatever reason.
33:54
I mean, it's, it's insane. So, but in that sense, what I'm
33:57
trying to explain here is that that's the only problem that has
33:59
been constant. But there's no, I mean, there's
34:04
no hoarding of goods. There's no, there's not a fuel
34:09
crisis yet. At least we can talk about.
34:13
I mean, there's no, there was of course the usual reaction the
34:15
day it happened, generally the third, a lot of people went and
34:18
do the lines on the gas stations through the country, but that
34:22
didn't, that happened for a day and a half maybe and then it
34:25
stopped. And there's no, we don't have
34:27
that kind of shortage going on at this moment.
34:31
So basically it is the same situation regarding.
34:36
Yeah, the value of the of currency, therefore the value of
34:40
salary and and power purchase. But beyond that point, I mean,
34:44
it shows something that I think it's important to to, to take
34:47
into account precisely on that economic aspect, especially of,
34:51
of being subject to many different shapes and forms of
34:55
blanket economic terrorism, which is basically this proves,
35:01
I mean, when this was bad five years ago when the oil revenues
35:05
plunged into 99%, it was really bad and a lot of things were
35:09
lacking. And now at this point with
35:12
precisely the within its limitations, diversified
35:17
diversification of economy doesn't seems to the globe
35:21
doesn't seems to be that hard than before.
35:25
So this shows that some things really have improved on that
35:29
economic front in order to face this kind of scenario in the
35:32
last two to three years. And I'm not saying, and I'm not
35:37
saying it's not perfect, you know, and, and, or out of the
35:40
woods or rosy, it is uncomfortable and it's tough and
35:43
you have to deal with a huge amount of another economic tool,
35:47
which is uncertainty. Yeah, yeah.
35:54
So right now it looks like, looks to me as an outside
36:00
observer, it looks like US continued to through coercion
36:07
and intimidation is trying to make Venezuelan government do
36:12
what it wants, which is to capitulate and to let the US oil
36:18
major come back and to all, all the oil asset like like before,
36:23
like before the nationalisation of Venezuelan oil assets.
36:29
So, so this really nothing has really like nothing fundamental
36:33
has changed. It's just Trump just up the
36:36
escalation, you know, by kidnapping the president, legal
36:39
president of the country, by imposing economic oil embargo
36:45
and by actually bombing the capital.
36:50
Yeah, I, I, I wonder how sustainable this is for United
36:54
States. You know to this is actually
36:56
people don't realise US itself also face resource constraint.
37:02
You know, they they to carry out such military operation is quite
37:06
expensive. And and and one second, yeah.
37:11
Yeah, no worries. I've been Photo by myself so
37:22
don't worry, I know what's going on.
37:26
My my son wants to go to the beach.
37:29
I tell him he has to wait wait, wait, wait a minute.
37:33
OK, 9090 OK after Papa finished OK he's not taking no long, Sir
37:40
one second, one second. Let me let me send him to my
37:42
wife and then. Yes, just go ahead, man.
37:45
No worries. No worries.
37:46
I I feel you. My wife promised to take my son
37:58
to the beach and he just can't wait here.
38:01
You see the the kids don't understand the concept of
38:05
future. They want it now.
38:07
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
38:10
Yeah. I have a little one that also
38:12
photo bombs me even even being, you know, on some yeah, live on
38:16
some news show and see just photo bombs.
38:18
So yeah, I know, I know what you're going through, but
38:23
that's. Yeah, OK.
38:25
The US resource constraint, right, because US empire is also
38:31
does not have infinite resources to carry out this campaign of
38:36
intimidation via military means in the Caribbean is actually
38:41
incredibly expensive. Like like all these to just keep
38:46
to keep all these US fleet stock with fuel like that.
38:52
They have these like logistic ships or Oilers that constantly
38:56
travelling back and forth to keep refuelling US ships.
38:59
They're already working at full capacity because this is not,
39:04
you know, I don't think the US, you know, U.S. military, I mean,
39:11
they can't sustain this for a while, but you will be
39:15
incredibly expensive. And they also, it means they,
39:19
they will have to put off on their adventurism elsewhere,
39:24
right? You know, because now that we're
39:26
there, there are rumours saying that US is moving to strike
39:31
Iran. But I'm like with what, you
39:34
know, all their military assets in the Caribbean right now, you
39:38
know, it's going to take the month to just to redeploy, even
39:42
if that's, you know, that's what they really want to do if they
39:45
want to go after Iran. So we're going to have to just
39:49
wait and see, you know, how long this Trump craziness last.
39:54
You know, I, I'm one, one thing for, for people outside of
39:57
Venezuela, you know, they worry about obviously is how long
40:02
Venezuelans can hold out under such an economic siege.
40:09
It's a big question mark and also and it also depends, but it
40:14
even that is contradictory to our to an extent, Carl, because
40:18
for example, in order to allow to make things flow, it seems
40:24
you have to, you have to discharge several sanctions, you
40:29
have to lift part of the sanction regime in order to make
40:34
this viable. It seems so.
40:37
So I mean, that's blowback, man. That's a new weird manifestation
40:44
of blowback. And we're going to see others as
40:47
weird as that one as we go forward if things keep going the
40:52
way they're going in that sense, because it's going into one
40:56
contradiction after the other one in order to make it make
40:59
sense. It's it's weird in that sense.
41:03
And so, and yeah, I don't like to enjoy to say I don't enjoy
41:11
saying that we've gone through this before all the economic
41:14
hardship because it is devastating.
41:17
And it's also frustrating if you have enough memory to remember
41:20
how where you living before sanctions, regardless of
41:25
whatever there was going on. But yeah, I mean, it is, it is a
41:30
concern, but there's also proof now up to this point that we're
41:36
not at the same spot that we were the first time in all of
41:39
this hit home. And I think that's important.
41:44
Lots of most of now of, of of the food we we actually eat,
41:49
it's actually being produced here.
41:51
It's not 100% sovereign, you know, full, full sovereignty,
41:58
but it's far more than it was five years ago.
42:03
Same with other economic activities and same with even
42:07
import, export and so on. So and also there's a lot of
42:12
restructuring and now it's even restructuring further now that's
42:17
taking place in our in all the legal framework precisely to
42:21
adapt what already succeeded in a different legal form.
42:27
So, So I think there are more, more ways and more resources to
42:33
at least face that part of the extreme part of the scarcity and
42:38
austerity and and so on. And also keeping to account,
42:42
they're probably going to push harder against finishing every
42:46
kind of interaction and deals with Venezuela's allies who
42:50
actually were the ones that supported Venezuela and proved
42:53
that the sanctions regime wasn't working anymore as they wanted
42:56
him to work. And that's one of the reasons
42:58
they attacked also. And they have to, you know,
43:01
precipitate everything the way they did.
43:03
And but they're telling them to be expelling.
43:06
Venezuela has been quite adamant and also explicit the way they
43:10
send it that that's not going to happen.
43:14
Some things, I guess the older loop process will be wider and
43:17
it's going to it will involve the ingenuity of others that are
43:23
actual real friends of Venezuela and in which they have they
43:30
which things will keep going in that direction.
43:33
And that's at least what Venezuela's word is saying.
43:36
Venezuela as a country, Venezuela's government is
43:37
stating publicly and she has won, has she hasn't won the one
43:43
over more than one gesture to the People's Republic of China,
43:49
the Islamic reporter of Iran and the Russian Federation all these
43:52
days, including visits to the ambassadors, meetings with these
43:57
ambassadors, greeting them at the Thorning, You know, the
44:03
celebration, the moment that she was sworn into office, the first
44:07
3 foreigners that were greeted by her personally were precisely
44:12
Iran, Russia and China. So that message is also there.
44:16
I guess that's going to take different shape and forms.
44:18
And this is something here that people also need to understand
44:21
regarding US, Venezuela relationships, because back
44:25
until 20/20/2013, maybe somewhere around US was the
44:30
biggest buyer still in Venezuelan oil back then.
44:34
And there was a lot of trade going on still back then.
44:38
And it's actually sanctioned that it was actually that
44:40
expelled the US company of doing business in Venezuela on a very
44:45
under Venezuelan law. But it has always been the
44:48
government position since Chavez, now Maduro and now Desi
44:52
Rodriguez, that we are always willing to engage on trade and
44:58
do business with the United States just like we do with it
45:02
any other country that we decide we have to do under the terms
45:06
that Venezuela has to offer. So that's not a cognitive
45:13
dissonance. And it always been put the
45:15
responsibility on them regarding the state and the shape of US
45:21
Venezuelan relationships. And also that's this is on a
45:25
government level. There are a whole different kind
45:27
of discussions going on, you know, on a more normal
45:31
grassroots level of many manifestation, not only the
45:35
diaspora, you know, economic circle we're talking about.
45:41
Actually discussions go further. They're now part of the
45:44
discussion on the right, for example, that goes beyond the
45:49
spinning that we've seen. So it is interesting, and it
45:52
also shows how quick this kind of blowback happens when you're
45:56
closer to home, when you're not back in Baghdad.
45:59
It takes a bit longer there to feel it, you know, to feel the
46:02
backlash in many ways or the sudden uncertainties in many
46:07
ways, as well as to the short sightedness and the pettiness of
46:15
this kind of operations. Yeah, that's good to hear.
46:21
And I think it's encouraging that also the Venezuelan
46:25
relationship with its neighbouring country has been
46:28
improving. I'm talking about like Colombia,
46:31
for example. And so so, you know, US at least
46:35
would not be able to block the land route for, you know,
46:39
Venezuelan borders with other Latin American countries.
46:43
Yeah. And and so we going to have to
46:48
and, and, and you know, Trump right now is he's doing all this
46:53
also, he's trying to stay out of gaol, you know, because he has a
46:57
midterm election coming in United States.
47:00
And what he's trying to do is right now he's trying to ensure
47:04
support from his mogga base. So there will be enough
47:08
Republicans get elected that will allow Trump not to be
47:14
impeached. So so this is This is why he's
47:17
also up the of the antiques. We're going to have to see how
47:20
the US military election shake out.
47:24
You know, whether there will be an impeachment of Trump coming
47:28
in. Well, and you know I don't.
47:30
Know if you saw you saw the quote of him basically saying
47:32
that the like I said, like another part of his stream of
47:36
consciousness, like saying I think it was with the times, I
47:39
don't know, I don't remember which out of it basically saying
47:42
it would be even better to not have elections or something like
47:44
that. I mean, he's already saying
47:47
that. Oh, yeah.
47:50
I mean, like, they, they, they were, they're, they're already
47:54
people like Steve Bannon trying to flow trial balloons or like a
47:58
possible term right beyond 2028, which is crazy.
48:04
I mean, right now, I don't know how the country will survive
48:07
another three years of Trump at the current rate.
48:12
It's, you know, we're just going to have to wait and see.
48:15
Yeah. And, and I, I think people, and
48:19
for the people watching, you know, like they should not be
48:27
too easily adopt A defeatist attitude.
48:30
You know, Venezuela has not been defeated yet.
48:32
Venezuela has not capitulated yet.
48:36
You know, the fight still goes on.
48:38
And you know, US is not all powerful, right?
48:42
I mean, like I, I know people feel helpless that sometimes
48:47
they feel you get to do whatever he wants.
48:49
But US is not all powerful. US do have its own limitations.
48:53
And you know, and then, then we'll just have the best we can
48:57
do is keep our, our spirits up and, and keep, keep on, keep on,
49:03
keep on, keep on the resistance to the empire.
49:05
Yeah, resistance takes many forms, man.
49:08
And especially if you are on the weak side, it takes even more
49:12
different, a wider set of possibilities and tools.
49:17
And you know, it's funny enough, I'm going to quote of all
49:20
people, the Taliban, when they said basically, yeah, you own
49:23
the watches, but we own time. And this is a very short term
49:27
thing right now, you know. And yeah, I mean, this is not
49:30
capitulation yet. We're not defeated.
49:32
And like I've said, and and if you have been paid enough
49:36
attention to Venezuela the last six years, you're going to see
49:40
the the different shapes and forms of resistance actually had
49:45
during those years. And now I think think about
49:48
something just for a moment, especially on a symbolic and
49:53
narrative needy empire at this moment precisely to obfuscate
49:58
from his its own decline. They tried to do a Roman show
50:02
against Nicolas Maduro. They tried to show him Saddam,
50:05
Saddam style humiliated, destroyed and, you know, looking
50:10
to the floor and he basically was just joking Caraqueno style
50:15
and saying goodnight and good you happy New year to the press
50:18
corps, even able to send us a message saying, you know, he was
50:21
in shock when he said Nosotros ven Ceremos and he was also able
50:25
to take a stand at the Jew that has many important reactions and
50:30
in court that day. So I mean, even that opportunity
50:34
of trying to go further with symbolic shock and awe basically
50:39
failed. You know, they didn't even that
50:43
opportunity was squandered. So yeah, I mean, and also this
50:46
massive displace of force is also a massive displace of
50:49
desperation. This is also important to
50:53
understand. Yeah, I'm actually going to see
50:58
if the publicise the, the trial because, you know, they, we all
51:03
know it's a kangaroo court and the, the, the the charges
51:06
brought against Maduro is bogus. But they already dropped the
51:10
drug charges because we know that that would never fly
51:13
because there's no fentanyl coming out of Venezuela.
51:17
You know that that was a completely made up charge.
51:19
And so now the only charge that standing against Maduro is
51:24
position of machine guns and position of machine guns that
51:29
pose danger to United States personnel, which is completely
51:34
ridiculous because you are trying to prosecute him in a
51:37
country that has a Second Amendment rights of citizens,
51:42
the right of citizens to bear arms.
51:44
You're, you're prosecuting Maduro for having weapons to to
51:49
defend himself. And this is completely
51:51
ridiculous. I actually look forward to how
51:54
they're going to argue in court on AI.
51:58
Hope will be a public televised trial.
52:01
Yeah, well, today actually, you know, there's the indictment had
52:04
like a second version after the attack.
52:05
And yeah, they they severely toned down the narco thing.
52:10
There's no mention for fentanyl and there's and same with El
52:14
carte de Los sores, which is what basically what they were
52:16
accusing him of, of being running a, a drug cartel, an
52:21
article state drug cartel or something.
52:23
And but they're going to try using it seems they're using a
52:29
star witness that has already been there was already clearance
52:33
already been shown that he's has been coerced and also had to
52:36
make his own plea deal in order to reduce his own sentence,
52:41
which is Ugo Carbajal. But this will like Max pieces
52:45
show. By the way, a very good piece by
52:47
Max Blumenthal at the Grayson basically shows that this on the
52:52
legal system would imply discovery that could they're
52:55
going to, that's actually going to point at the CIA history of
52:58
drug trafficking to say, you know, so it's going to be really
53:02
complicated to do it. Although, and even for more, we
53:06
can get even more colourful here we have this guy, the judge who
53:10
I, I remember, I forgot his name, that basically is the guy
53:14
that persuaded 9/11 victims not to go on trial and to settle
53:19
something because of what the risk of what they was going to
53:22
be exposed at the on a, on a trial, you know, so yeah,
53:29
exactly. So those that would be put in a
53:31
very in a very bad place, the US federal state.
53:35
So it's a good question mark. And so this is a judge, a cover
53:38
up judge, at least for 911, according to what I've seen.
53:42
And on the other side, by the way, you have there's something
53:45
like this. Yeah, this is, this is also like
53:48
geopolitics inside the courtroom because you have the Barry
53:52
Pollock, I think it's his name, The Who was, who was Assange's
53:57
lawyer. So that's also like, you know,
54:01
there's a lot of indirect symbolism and messages going on
54:04
here. What kind of fighting and a
54:07
sense of even morality and decency operating here.
54:11
So that's going to be a nightmare.
54:12
It's APR nightmare if you see it, unless they go tough on them
54:17
hardcore, I don't know, trying to do something that's going to
54:20
work in their benefit for the cameras, for the performative
54:23
elements of this regardless of the legal case itself.
54:27
So yeah, I mean, that's a that's something.
54:31
I mean, I'm looking also. I'm also anxious to see what how
54:34
this is going to develop. Yeah, we, we are all very
54:41
anxious to see how, how you all play out.
54:45
And thank you again, Diego, for making your time to join us to,
54:51
to tell us the facts on the ground inside Venezuela.
54:56
Is there anything you like to? Is there anything else you'd
54:59
like to cover on this particular issue?
55:05
Yeah, I had an idea. I just lost it there basically.
55:08
I mean, this is not, this is far from over.
55:10
I think this is something people have to realise one more time.
55:12
I think the LA Rouge driver has it right when they say it's
55:15
entering a new phase. It is, it is a new stage of
55:19
geopolitical reality throughout the world, you know, and they
55:23
have to keep that into account. I completely forgot the other
55:27
thing I was going to say. But anyway, yeah, I was actually
55:32
remembering, reminded that I've been joking with the thing.
55:35
And now for something completely different, quoting the Monty,
55:38
quoting Monty Python the last two episodes.
55:42
So boy, man, I have I, I, I foresee that we're going to have
55:45
something completely different the next time we're going to
55:47
we're going to talk. This is going fast.
55:50
Man, Yeah, yeah. So for people who want to follow
55:55
you, Diego, where would they go? Well, first of all the go to
56:00
placesmissionberrada.com I think we have to write it down in the
56:04
comments. Truth mission in in in English
56:07
will be like the rough translation and the Telegram
56:12
channel there. Then I have my my personal
56:14
Twitter handle there. You can find me there as well.
56:17
And sometimes I'm running something here and there.
56:21
So I'll basically will post it on social media and the Telegram
56:24
channel. So those are the go to places.
56:30
Thank you. Thank you Diego again for.
56:33
Thank you very much. Speak to us this is a very
56:36
important development and it's still ongoing story obviously I
56:41
I look forward to have you back on our.
56:44
Show. Man to to discuss any further
56:47
development because this is like I said, this is still ongoing
56:51
drama and and we had right now the whole world's, you know,
56:57
whole world's eyes are now focused Venezuela and United
57:01
States. And hopefully next time when we
57:04
come together for something completely different, you will
57:08
be a a, a nice surprise. That would be great.
57:12
Yeah. I hope for good news.
57:13
Yeah, yeah, some some crazy development, that's for sure.
57:16
I mean, that's that's the only thing I can guarantee what it
57:20
is. It's it's going to be a surprise
57:21
and only God knows. That's fair.
57:25
Well, thanks guys for tuning in. Until next time, bye bye.