Latest / Better Preaching Podcast / Nate Ross | Blessed are the Undone | BP2 Season 2 Episode 16
Transcript
- Dr. Frank Weller: Welcome back to the Better Preaching Podcast, Nate. Nate Ross: Hey, great to be back with you, Frank. Thanks for having me on. Dr. Frank Weller: Nate, the last time we touched just a little bit on your work as the leader of moments to movements. and by the way, BP2 listeners, if you haven't checked out momentstomovements.com, you need to do that. but for you, Nate, that's a deeply personal calling that came out of a difficult season. Nate Ross: Yeah. Dr. Frank Weller: as much as you're comfortable, can you share with our listeners some of that journey? Nate Ross: Absolutely. yeah. So went to Bible college, youth ministry professor. Actually stepped out of youth ministry. just started realizing I'm more of a generalist than a specialist. ended up working at my the church where my dad was a lead pastor in Northside here in New Albany, and came in as the involvement associate because I love people. Then it moved into being over all the weekend, then the associate pastor over staff and then the lead pastor. a lot of people be like, well. You knew you came here to take over for your dad. And I'm like, no, that was I never actually had the aspiration that I had to be a lead pastor. What I had to do was connect with people. and the Lord kept using that. so was the lead pastor for five years there at Northside. I don't regret it. Enjoyed it. but about two and a half years in, and everybody who steps into a lead pastor role, a lot of people are like, I want to preach. And it's like, well, yeah, that six times a year where you have six weeks to prepare your sermon is awesome. Dr. Frank Weller: Yeah. Nate Ross: You know, when you step into the lead role, woo, that you know, it it just it's a different, it's a different mantle of leadership. There's a different pressure. You know that pressure well. And it was about two and a half, three years in that I really feel like I I had hit the wall where Numerically, we had grown by 20%. you know, we had just raised twenty-eight million dollars in our campaign. I mean, the Lord's provision was just it was one of those like again, we we talk about it. It's like we have all these numbers going in this direction, everything looks unbelievable, but something is not right in your soul. And for about two years I wrestled with that. I'm like, what is that? And I tried I I pulled like every lever. I was like, you know what? I'm just not far enough out in my preaching plan. So I got a year out, one year. Got a year out. Okay. And, you know, didn't have the peace And I'm like, you know what? I need a I need a a bigger teaching team. So I went and got Mike Breaux to commit about five weekends a year. Ephraim Smith from out in California. He was like, hey, I can do four for you. Cause I'm like, my thought is if I'm out of the pulpit, I want the preaching to get better. When I'm out, I don't want it to be like, you know, I'm like, no, I want to come to church when I'm not there. You know, I want to watch online. And I'm pulling all these levers and the peace is like I'm struggling. I like I I'm like, unbelievable teaching team. Numbers are great. And I reached out to Dave Rider who actually Aaron Brockett, I called him. I'm like, man, I'm struggling. I don't and you know, as sometimes as pastors, we don't feel comfortable going to see a counselor in our own town. I said, you know, I'll drive to Indy. Who do have? He connected me with Dave Rider who I now do coaching and leadership development with, who was working with them and and Traders Point, doing cultural development. And that was the breakthrough moment for me where we did, I got into his cohort. was getting access to my deep waters from Proverbs 20, verse 5. And he just asked the question. He just said, Don't worry about your business model. Don't worry about what you're calling it. What is the Lord doing in your heart? And just let that question sit. And I just said I would rather help leaders lead their thing than lead my thing, but that feels like failure. Dr. Frank Weller: Mm-hmm. Nate Ross: 'Cause the adage is, those who can't go and teach. Right? Well, I can't do it, but let me tell you how to do it. And it's like, you know, just felt like an absolute imposter. And he goes, Well, that's what I do. Like, Dave, you're not a failure. You know I I said, You're not failure. He goes, I know. He goes, but he goes, if that's what the Lord's stirring, w w what if we step in that together? And he goes, and you know, you know how we'll know if it works? I said, How? He goes, Well, if somebody calls us, it works. And if nobody calls us, then it didn't work. And and so now a couple years later, you know, that that's what I'm getting to do now. And still unbelievably grateful for my time as the lead pastor because now as I get to work with lead pastors and teams, it's like just like you, You know the weight, you know the burden, you know the pressures and the empathy can be right there. So that's a little bit of the history of of my time as a lead guy and even stepping out and just my joy with lead pastors and with teams. It's man, I just love it and just love and it's really my spiritual gift. Like my more than preaching, I would say maybe preaching and teaching is like maybe number three for me. My number one spiritual gift is encouragement. I was little bit shocked. Shepherding's high. But the third one, I think is the gift of administration, which is unique. It's not that I love spreadsheets. Actually, I don't know how to build spreadsheets, but when I dug into it, more administration is you love to help carry out other people's ideas. And so that's what I'm getting to do now is just come alongside guys and and help flesh out what the Lord's doing and draw that out and and create that environment with them. Dr. Frank Weller: Thank you for affirming in me my belief that hell will be filled with Excel spreadsheets. Nate Ross: I feel like I'm Zoolander every time I open one. I'm like I'm like, I don't know how this thing works. Dr. Frank Weller: I was talking to somebody the other day they're saying, yeah, so you just what you just put an Excel equation in there, and I'm like, can I can I make it a word table? And I'll just I'll Nate Ross: Huh. Totally. Absolutely. Dr. Frank Weller: do the math on a calculator. Nate Ross: That's exactly right. Dr. Frank Weller: yeah, my team gives me a hard time about that. They they've they make fun of me for even using the Microsoft Suite. They're like, come on, everybody's Google. Not me, man. I'm power to the people. Nate Ross: Stay strong, man. That's right. Stay strong. Dr. Frank Weller: You mentioned, and I man, I agree with you about this. Something just unique to preaching is the it's this weekly pressure that we feel. One of our guests a few weeks ago said that he described sermon preparation as you give birth on Sunday and you find out on Monday you're pregnant again. And there's just a tremendous pressure to perform. Nate Ross: that is well Yes. Yes. Yeah. Dr. Frank Weller: Yeah, but experience is teaching you a different approach. Nate Ross: It is. Yes. Yeah. It yeah. I I you know, we chatted about on the last one. There there was I I just call it just it was an industry standard that I I carried and and I think we all do. You know, we have these incredible ministry heroes and influences in our life, and we're not purposely doing it because we're seeing it, we're impacted by it, so we feel like that's our need to emulate it. Like even between me and my dad, he's an incredible creative guy. He he would create sermon series and it would it would start out of a creative thought or a phrase or an idea and then he would take it to the content to the scripture. I can't operate that way. That way's not wrong. Him, Mike Breaux all these guys, they just come up with unbelievable things. I make content. Now I'll go and be creative. And that was a big discovery in my preaching. Just how what do I need? to start a series and not just a series, like, what do I need actually to to begin to to run and and run in the way which God has wired me. I don't think it's wrong when people you know, I remember listening to like Breaux just preached this summer out at Eastside and listened to his series en Fuego and it's all on fire. And he's doing this and the you know our anger and our this and that. And it's such a great you know, study of God and and and then when people lose their you know, lose it with their anger and I'm like I'm sitting there in awe and I'm also going, Dr. Frank Weller: Yeah. Nate Ross: I can never do this Dr. Frank Weller: Yeah. Okay, so that so that that leads, I think, I I see I see a couple different approaches to that whole idea of the industry standard, right? There are some people that they just some preachers just spend their entire lives chasing it. And Nate Ross: Yes. Dr. Frank Weller: they bec it it it it's this is it's this pressure to perform that you're never going to be able to meet because I mean, how many Mike Breauxs are there? Right? So so they chase Nate Ross: it yeah. Dr. Frank Weller: the n and and it's very discouraging. And at it at the complete opposite end of the spectrum, and it is a spectrum, th there there are preachers who say, I'm never gonna be able to do that, so so why try to get better? I'm just gonna do my thing twenty minutes a week, punch in, punch out. And neither one of those really works w well at all. Nate Ross: No. to and I know that's kind of a straw man thing. Like I'm not saying there's a bunch of people who think that way, but my my encouragement are to those who find themselves there right now would it's just that like one, the Lord did not make you to steward your life that way, and we'll get into this in a second. I would really ask myself, why am I doing that? Right, like and not that it's putting on in the fear piece too, but I often think about this question where it's like on judgment day, it's like, Who's Jesus? And the other question is, and what'd you do with what I gave you? Dr. Frank Weller: Mm-hmm. Nate Ross: Our job is to steward it. And asking ourselves, like, why why why do I find myself there? Why do I find myself like even having to go, well, I can't do that like Mike? So I'm just a terrible preacher. Hang on, why am I doing that? Compared to like, I'm just stewarding me. And so, God, would you reveal this in me? Would you help me to steward how you've made me? and let me do that. But even just asking that question, why? Why am I feeling this way? Why am I phoning it in? why do I feel like I remember one time I preached on the same sermon, same scripture, preached it that Monday. I would watch other preachers just for my own encouragement, watch the Andy Stanley sermon. He preached the exact same text. And I went. How how like I was more defeated on Monday because I'm like it made me want to feel like I wanted to go back and apologize to the congregation, like just watch this. This was this is what this is what the text really said. I I I can't, you know. and ultimately it was that that that's a deep insecurity or this false line that I'm supposed to become like him, and I'm not. I I I can't. Dr. Frank Weller: This is one of the reasons why so many pastors drop out of church. There's a study, Center for Church Leadership did a study that focused on ministers from Christian churches and churches of Christ. It it said that 70% of Bible college graduates drop out of pastoral ministry within the first 10 years. And I I think I think part of that is because of that pressure or just just not stewarding who God created them to be and trying to be somebody else. Nate Ross: Yes. Which and and this is we talk about getting access to our deep waters, like Th this helped me. The greatest thing I could offer my church and even the greatest thing I can offer my family right now and any leader I work with is the healthiest version of me. Like, yes, let's preach well, but the thing that these pastors who are listening to this, like the thing that your family needs and the thing that the church needs the most is the healthiest version of you. Because great preaching will come out of that. But do we know what the healthiest version of us looks like? this is if you're okay, I'll just kind of give like a little bit of a framework that I that I work by, if that's all right. Dr. Frank Weller: Yeah, go. Absolutely. That's why you're here. Nate Ross: Because that this will even take us into whether we want to talk on the financial and the money series, you know, just all these different topics that you want to hit. But this w this was revolutionary for me. It's even how Jesus would get access to people's deep waters to bring out what he wanted to see in them. first you got to get awareness so you can gain access to the deep waters of your heart, and then you take action. Oftentimes we're just taking action. Okay, I got the sermon, I got we're just taking action. Then we get access to, my gosh, this is not good. And now all I'm stuck with is I'm aware this is not good. And it's like, yeah, we've got the whole order. And if someone would like pushed me on that, they're like, well, where's that in Jesus' teaching? I find it everywhere, but predominantly I find it in Revelation two, verse five, where he has to confront Ephesus in the letters in Revelation. And he's like, Man, I see your effort. I see you don't tolerate, you know, the Nicolaatians and all Love it, love it, love it. He sees it. He says, This is what I hold against you. You for, you know, you've forsaken your first love. And then we stop. But he gives us the direction of how we re-engage our first love, which is actually how we show up as the best version of ourselves to preach. And what he says is, I want you to remember the height from which you've fallen, get awareness. I want you to repent. I want you to make your home in me. Now Do what you did at first, which is live in my spirit and live in my victory. Awareness, access, now action. And even my own journey of preaching and walking through this, and even as we'll talk about finances, even with money, money makes us funny, not just for the people in the congregation. Money makes us funny as pastors. And it's like, are we aware why we don't want to talk about finances? typically we go, yeah. Because we're gonna lose 20% of our church as soon as we ta start talking about it. so let's just not talk about it, which is actually an access issue of going, how are you as a preacher when you preach God's truth and it's rejected? And you physically lose relationship or you physically lose proximity to people because you are just faithfully proclaiming God's word. That's an access thing. And ultimately we're going, we want people to take action in generosity or in anything, but it's like that that order matters in which Jesus and so it's like even for us, it's like get awareness so you can gain access to the deeper things that Jesus wants to speak into our heart, and then from there we can take action. But again, the only reason why I found that out is because I had that order messed up. You know, it was like take action, take action, do this, you know, run on this and it's like, Okay, I can't keep running like that. And and I had to come to that conclusion. Dr. Frank Weller: Unpack for me a little bit, just I guess compare and contrast. So on terms in terms of ministry or even preaching prep, what was what was your week like or what was what was it what was it like kind of before you experienced this new understanding versus what it's like now? Nate Ross: Yeah. so typically, you know, we'd have six month planning meetings where, you know, you kinda have a an inkling, you'd you'd you know, you would I already know when Christmas is for the next ten years. You already know when these things are gonna come in, you know, you you've got those big markers and whatnot. And so you'd find the you'd find those times and you'd find you know, I would do like block series throughout the year of some things. But ultimately, you know, you do like a six week thing, then you'd build it out. But my week would look like I would do no morning meetings. I just my best time and I could never like actually I didn't have an office at the church. We ran out of space. I would just write backstage. You know, it was like it was actually like the IT room, like servers are in there and I had to have a chair in there. That was about it. And so I would write at home because that first two and a half hours to three hours of the day was was it. And so I'm and again, it's not wrong. I just wasn't one of those people who could do an all day Wednesday writing day. Like that that's not my wiring. So, you know, I would get about that two and a half, three hours, and I would do that Monday, do that Tuesday, do that Wednesday, Thursday by noon the outline was due so they could build slides, they could do all this other stuff, because we have we had Saturday service. So then that way Friday was one rest day going into the weekend. or if I had missed some stuff, if there'd been things it's like I I had that margin of time. But Thursday at noon was the mentally it was that outline needed to be done. If there's a few things to tweak in there, that's okay, but like we need to be done. but I found I needed that blocked scheduling of intentional time and then the people time could be lunch and after and all those meetings. So that was my personal rhythm. and and for me. That's the question that keeps coming into is what do you need? That's great if an all day Wednesday writing session gets you where you need to go. I needed a a team to help me continue to flesh out an idea. Larry Osborne, he was pastor at North North Coast Church in San Diego for a long time. And I brought him in to preach one weekend and I was having him help me. And he goes, You want to know why people are gonna come to church this weekend? I'm like, yeah, 'cause Larry Osborne's preaching, you know, and it'd be great. He goes, No. He goes, ninety nine percent of the people don't know who I am. He goes, Maybe your staff do. He goes, They're coming because they're in town this weekend. Dr. Frank Weller: Ouch. Nate Ross: And I'm like, but the series and the this. He goes, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's like, I care about preaching, but he goes, I care more about the disciple making. So they were running thirteen thousand with ninety two percent of their weekend attendance in small groups. Dr. Frank Weller: That's a shockingly large number. Nate Ross: it's insane. And he would challenge me and he would challenge other pastors. He goes, you know how much is in the church's bank account, don't you? Yeah. He goes, do you know it down to the cent? Yeah. He goes, so why don't you know how many people are in small groups or how many are not if you actually care and believe that that's your disciple-making vehicle. It is like, Dr. Frank Weller: Okay. Nate Ross: all right. You know, and it but that was the whole thing. That's right. Yeah, Dr. Frank Weller: This has been the feel good podcast with Nate Ross. Nate Ross: I know, man. I'm just share I'm just sharing the bullet holes that got shot through Dr. Frank Weller: Right. Nate Ross: me, man, in in my lead pastor journey that I had to face. But it did, it challenged me to go, not that preaching didn't matter, but it was like I needed to become way more intentional with my mindset to go, I do need to preach God's word. But I don't need to think that just my preaching is what's actually gonna move that. I actually had a a buddy message me. He goes, Hey man, and he's like, I'm reading through the Bible. And he goes, I started coming to Northside when you were doing a series on Nehemiah. And I'm like, yeah, I you know, I remember that. He goes, Man, that's my first, you know, first series there. He's like so impactful. And then he goes, I'll be honest, I don't remember any of your other series, but I miss you, man. I mean, Dr. Frank Weller: Ha ha. Nate Ross: that was this week. It was this week, and I was like, great to hear from you. Great to so, but it is. There's a Dr. Frank Weller: That's when you text him back, you know what, I I don't remember any of the other series either. Actually, Nate Ross: I d I that's what I said. I go, Don't worry, man. I was like, I laugh so I don't cry but Yeah. Dr. Frank Weller: I I can imagine that some of our listeners You know, they're in the car, they're on listen to the podcast, they're on a run. and and some of the of what we've talked about, I mean, it could lead to some feelings of pessimism, I think a little bit. But l I know, look, I know you, you're a you're a high energy, you're a glass half full kind of guy. so I know that you've you you've got a sense of optimism or you're excited about the future of preachers and preaching. And I'd love to hear what really kind of keeps you fired up about kind of where we're going as a body of work or as a as a a a A group of craftsmen who are who are just all about preaching. Nate Ross: Yeah, I think one of the things that I love is at least the guys I'm getting to to walk with, guys are really intentional about finding their voice. And so knowing who they are, knowing hey, these we need to we need to do a good job of not just preaching or talking about things that I'm passionate about, but going, man, we need to bring the whole scripture to this, the whole story to walking through this. One guy that I'm watching just and it it's inspiring me, but it's the lead pastor out at Rock Harbor Church in California. His name's Glenn Pacquiaum. And he's not in our movement or whatever, but still just an unbelievable wisdom. He's doing a thing called enter the story. And so fifty-two weeks this year, they're going and touching on like the biggest scripture, like and so like this last week in whatever is like on Romans eight. And they're they're just crafting And what they're doing is they're setting a meta-narrative for people to understand the whole scripture and the whole story and then lifting up different things. And it's doing this like when you write that out, in my mind, I'm already going, his year is already planned, which is phenomenal. And you also know I'm not just going wide with my preaching calendar. I'm I'm gonna take my people into the areas that we need to talk about all throughout scripture. And so what I love is watching guys. Use their voice, use their intentionality. And at the same time, that's not breaking a preaching paradigm. That's just stewarding your people and your environment really well to encounter that. And so I'm just watching people again, you know, you talk about moments to movements with my organization, it's it's really this idea of they're going, the weekend is a it's a moment. All roads don't lead to the weekend. the weekend needs to lead all roads. And I'm watching people begin to find that and they're doing reading plans and they're doing, you know, hey, you know, some of the most popular things like Josh Howarton and everything else that's going on, though those podcasts are coming on a way to expand and go deeper on what they just preached on, but just in another way. And so you're watching people steward take phones and take s you know social media and steward this and innovate and get the word out, knowing Not everybody's gonna give you 30 minutes, even on a podcast. They're not gonna, they're not gonna give it. and so we get a chance to walk through that. And so I'm watching this take place and I'm just, man, yeah, I'm inspired, I'm I'm learning, and I'm watching this, and I'm just watching guys just settle into their voice and who they are and get a lead out of that. Dr. Frank Weller: And the key to that really is bringing your healthiest self to the pulpit, healthiest self to the congregation. Nate Ross: Yeah. Dr. Frank Weller: And the challenge, I guess, for some of the p folks listening to this is okay, what does that look like? You know, what is my healthiest how how so I guess what I'm asking is this, Nate, in just the couple of minutes we have left, what is just one or two things you'd say to our listeners? Look, in order to begin this journey to discovering your healthiest self. What's one or two things that our listeners could do? Nate Ross: Yeah, and yeah, yeah. Dr. Frank Weller: And you know what, maybe it's you're like, you know what, Frank, no, it's that's you're trying to distill it down to one or two things and that doesn't work. you know. Nate Ross: No, no, you're no, I've got three for ya and I'm going, yeah, I'm gonna say and then I'd be happy that anybody can email me, reach out, I'd be happy to keep having an expanded conversation. when we talk about getting awareness, what we talk about too is being willing to face your emotions. what's really going on in your heart so you can show up as the healthiest version of yourself. You talked about it. okay, I'm comparing myself or whatever. Well beneath that there's a deeper emotion you feel. right? And you you we've got to be willing to face that emotion, which also means you've got to face how you've been formed. And ultimately what the Lord requires from us, if we're going to be people who show up as the healthiest version of ourselves, is we've got to be people who are willing to be undone before the Lord. That's what the deep waters are. When you think about deep waters, it's dark, it's cold, it's scary, we don't know what's down there, we don't want to spend a long time down there. There's a ton of pressure in deep waters. it's not just something that you take lightly. And at the same time, where we're where you go, well, show me that in scripture. That's the beatitudes. Jesus starts with the call for us, not just as people, but specifically also as pastors, because he called the disciples there. The the crowds were there too. But it was like their ordination. And he goes, Here's how it begins, fellas. Blessed are the poor in spirit. Blessed are the undone, which you begin to see the unraveling. Right, Judas leaves because he's not willing to be undone before the Lord. Peter's still bringing out knives in the garden. Because he's not going to be undone. We keep pulling out these things to keep us from being undone before the Lord, which actually hinders our preaching and hinders our heart as pastors and more importantly, just as people who lead and love our families. And so That's the order as we get access to our deep waters is one, we gotta get awareness that, okay, I don't have it. Face our emotions, realize how we've been formed, allow the Holy Spirit, that's why spiritual disciplines matter, because they reform us. And then and we've got to have godly community, that's part of our formation, but ultimately it's this call to be undone. I tell you, and that and that was it was the scariest moment for me to step out of being the lead pastor because I took over from my dad. What does it say about me? What are you doing, Lord? I had no levers to pull. And the Lord's like, right. And I'm doing this. And are we as pastors willing to sit in really a powerless position to allow Jesus to have all the power? Dr. Frank Weller: Yeah, that's good stuff, Nate. thanks. That's it's been a lot of fun. Yeah. Nate Ross: Y you're like thanks, I think. Dr. Frank Weller: Well, we'll have you back on after I spend time at my spiritual formation retreat and see how that's going. In the meantime, I want to remind Nate Ross: That's right. Dr. Frank Weller: our listeners to check out Nate's website at momentstomovements.com and check out betterpreaching.org for past episodes, our Nate Ross: Yeah. Dr. Frank Weller: better preaching blog, and more resources. And I want to thank Great Lakes Christian College for sponsoring the podcast. Finally, I want to thank you, our listeners, for listening to and supporting the Better Preaching Podcast. Remember to like and rate the podcast. And when you hit the subscribe button or leave us a rating, it helps others. Find BP2. Join us next time for an insightful conversation because better preaching makes a bigger impact.