Latest / Soul Communication Podcast with Diana MaAra Divine / DIVINE MASCULINE & FEMININE: Balancing Relationships and Personal Growth | Michael Tierno - Ep. 51

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DIVINE MASCULINE & FEMININE: Balancing Relationships and Personal Growth | Michael Tierno - Ep. 51 · Soul Communication Podcast with Diana MaAra Divine

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There's three parts to a relationship.
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There's partner one, partner 2 and the relationship partner one
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or partner 2 isn't doing their own growth.
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As a quote from Nietzsche, a long term relationship, a
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marriage, is the longest conversation you will ever have.
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And if you're not as individuals growing within yourself, you're
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going to run out of things to say to one another.
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If you want to keep the relationship interesting, both
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partners need to continue their paths of individual growth so
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that when they come together, hey, this is what I did, this is
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my growth edge. This is what I learned today,
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and there's something interesting to talk about.
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If you're getting divorced or separated, you're not going to
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be with that person anymore. That person is off the table or
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not responsible for other people.
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What did you do that allowed this relationship to go the way
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that it went? Well, pay attention only to your
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responsibility to whatever those red flags were that were
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avoided. Whose responsibility is the
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person who avoided it? Welcome everyone to Soul
1:00
Communication. I'm excited today to continue
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diving deeper into the topics of consciousness.
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And today we'll talk about divine masculine energy.
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We've talked a lot about divine feminine and wakening of the
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divine feminine energy on Earth. I have a very fascinating guest,
1:17
his name is Michael Tiarno, he's a transformer guide, a founder
1:21
of Men of Integrity retreats where he leads men through
1:25
expanded states of consciousness to access deeper healing purpose
1:29
and connection. Michael is also working with
1:32
Plant Medicine Center in Peru and he is known for his
1:37
integrity and detailed approach to integration.
1:40
Welcome, Michael to my show. Thank you for having me for this
1:45
conversation. But I think it's much new
1:47
conversation. But before we jump in, what
1:51
excites you today? You've been on this journey for
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a while, working with various people, using different tools,
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and as you see consciousness expanding, what excites you on
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your journey? I am most excited when I work
2:04
with people one-on-one or in the retreats.
2:06
That space of vulnerability and growth and transformation is so
2:12
nourishing to me. And it feels like I'm adding
2:16
some value to the world. And, and watching people go
2:21
through their own journeys and having these amazing like
2:26
awarenesses about things that maybe don't serve them or things
2:29
that were outside of awareness in the past and are now inside
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of awareness that they cannot ignore any more that they need
2:34
to like work through, pass through process.
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And watching and being part of those journeys in particular are
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really what brings me so much joy and purpose.
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It's my favorite space to be is in that medicine space with
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folks. That's so.
2:49
Beautiful. Yeah, I am very familiar with
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that space. It's very sacred container.
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And it's just so nice to disconnect people from the
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noise, right, And bring them into the sacred space of who
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they are, to allow them to really remember the truth behind
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all these different layers and projections.
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You and I started talking before we jumped on a podcast about the
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energies of divine feminine versus divine masculine.
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For those who may be new to understanding of these energies,
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what does that mean? And then why perhaps these
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journeys on the female collective are different than
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the ones on the male collective? So the way I describe it is, I
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describe it through a couple of examples.
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So the best way that I think makes the most sense is to think
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of a rocket ship. A rocket ship has two
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components, right? A rocket ship's complicated,
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right? It's got all these buttons and
3:45
engines and all these things. But if you think about two main
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components, you have the rocket ship itself and then you have
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the fuel for the rocket ship, and both parts are useless
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without the other. So if you just have a fuel
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depot, you set a match to it and the fuel is energy.
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And then what I think about energy in terms of art of
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creation is the feminine. So if you just have a feminine,
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this fuel depot, you set light to it, boom, just get this
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chaotic explosion. And if you just have the rocket
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ship, which is my analogy for the masculine, and there's no
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energy, there's no fuel. And it's just, it's going to sit
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there on the launchpad in perfect stillness.
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It's not doing anything, can't do anything.
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It's incapable of doing anything.
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But when you put the energy of divine feminine and add it to
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the divine masculine, the rocket ship and the fuel, then all of a
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sudden you have you can go out to the moon, you could do
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whatever you want, navigate the earth, whatever is needed.
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So that's one, one analogy that used to say everything has
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divine masculine and divine feminine in it.
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If you don't have one, you have nothing.
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The other story I really like that paid some picture for me is
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the divine dance between Shiva and Shakti.
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Sheba is the masculine right and he's represented often times,
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most of the time sitting in perfect stillness with on a
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Lotus flower in a perfectly still lake.
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Nothing is happening. Shakti on the other hand, right,
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dancing, moving around all this movement, beautiful like
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expressiveness and I'm with her like different manifestations,
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call it the chaos and but together through their divine
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union, the masculine and the feminine, you have the creation
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of all that is. So that's the way I like to
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think about the divine aspects of it.
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And then why it's important is to recognize that whether we be
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male or female, we both have these capacities.
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This thing has these capacities. I like to think about them more
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as archetypes, patterns of excitation in the universal
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field that rather than energies that are distinct because
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there's no separate. Once you start making things
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distinct, it's just becoming complicated, dualistic and what
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not. So they're just different
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patterns, archetypes which things kind of align with.
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And so when we are out of alignment with one or other of
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these archetypes, it brings us into a dis harmonious state of
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being. So whether we be a man or a
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woman or an animal or whatever, I don't know, the animals can
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actually choose to do these things.
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But when we retract away, and this is we're going to talk
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about like a man retracting away from his, the part of him that
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is divinely feminine, we retract away from that part and we
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ignore those parts that are intuition, our capacity for
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caring or healing nature or gentleness, all that sort of
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those characteristics that are associated with more associated
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with the feminine right. And we tracked away from that.
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What we're left with is the opposite of those
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characteristics. So instead of being intuitive,
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we are authoritarian. Instead of being healing, we are
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cruel. Instead of being gentle, we are
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violent. And then we label that as toxic
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masculine. But I'm here to tell you that
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toxic masculine doesn't have anything to do with masculinity,
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has to do with retracting away from our internal nature or
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internal feminine part of our nature.
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And the same thing with the masculine part, those capacities
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that mask that we associate with the masculine, that the logic,
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rigorous logic, the capacity for going out into the world and
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having capacity for doing in spite of danger, right?
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If one retracts away from those capacities, from their masculine
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nature, like you tell a little girl that's not very ladylike
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when she's trying to go out and do the world, play sports or
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whatever, we're telling her not to do those things that we
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associate with masculine. What is she left with when she
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retracts away from that? She retract into another
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vibrational pattern, which is called the wounded feminine.
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So this is was labeled as hysteria in the early part of
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the last century. Unarticulated sense of self,
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can't do for herself, doesn't feel that she has ownership in
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the world, that she can't go out and express herself in the way.
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So she's unable to be in perform, perform work in the
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world. So that's how I look at it.
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And I think it's important because in the, in the West as
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of late, we've labeled anything that's masculine as having
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something to do with toxicity. Oh, she's too masculine,
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therefore he's toxic. And I'm here to say that's not
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the case at all. When someone is toxic, it's
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because they're not connected with that archetype inside
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themselves that associated with the divine feminine.
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So that's how I look at it. I don't know what you think.
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Yeah, no, I completely agree. And I think for me, it's also
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the energies that within the body, because I work
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specifically with the Kundalini energy, the Sakti energy that
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you're discussing. I see that there's the right
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side of the body, the left side of the body and how these
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energies go through a chakras and we all have that.
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That's actually when you're talking about wound and it's
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interesting to see like where it's also expressing itself on
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the body. So sometimes people have issues
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where they right knee or they right hip.
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What is the body trying to tell you?
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What's this particular body symptom?
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Maybe you're moving too fast through the world.
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This is where the masculine maybe is all the dominant and
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you need to slow down and you need to be a little more
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balanced with the other side and more, you know, receive.
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And that's exactly what happened to me.
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I moved to New York and I was running around and until my body
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was like Nope and I got sciatica in the right leg.
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I had to sit with that and learn through that through my body is
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like turtle medicine where am I not balanced and I realized
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actually that the masculine was over dominating and was
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overheating the inside. So.
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That was my own journey, so I definitely can relate to what
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you're saying. Yeah.
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So what we do in the retreats and what I work with men is to
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like to embody both. So we don't elevate one over the
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other, but we connect with both of these archetypes, these
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patterns of being. And I think it's important
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because in our society over the past, however long, we haven't
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honored that feminine aspect, that divinely feminine aspect,
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we don't pay for it. It's not honored.
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And we tell people, go to New York and just do, hey, hold on a
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second. It's too much for everybody,
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whether it be a man or woman. We need to like be closer to our
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essential nature to which is balance, like you said.
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So men's work, maybe give us an example of where someone who
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comes to your retreat can experience both of these
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energies and how in the way that facilitates that process.
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Yeah, there is. We don't do a lot of raw, but we
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do. We talk about doing in the
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world. So we don't do so much in the
10:46
retreat. What we do in our retreats is
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we're unpacking ourselves and putting all these things out to
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be observed, understood, witnessed, witnessed by self and
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witnessed by the other members of the retreat, the facilitators
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and the guides. And also what we do is with
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these word safe space. But we make a space where it is
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safe to express yourself, right? To express yourself in a bold
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and world nature. Talk about those things that are
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going so well in your life and how many, and then maybe
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understand how ingrained patterns of core beliefs
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identify those and bring those into the light so that we can
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see how they're operating in anyone's life.
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So bring these things to the light and then see how they are
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manifesting. And lots of times, because men
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haven't been given the space and to express themselves, which is
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a feminine, the kind of thing expression, right?
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They haven't even been able to express it to themselves.
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And so they got it all stuffed in there.
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And so we don't talk a lot about masculine, feminine, different
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energies differently in the retreat.
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We don't label all that kind of stuff except for presentation on
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relationships that we do over at a workshop on there where we
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identify these as different things and how they work in and
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play together. But by giving the space and the
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honor for men to actually express their softer natures,
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their tender spots, and by modeling that by the
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facilitators and the guides model that themselves.
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Because we don't put ourselves as guides and facilitators.
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We don't put ourselves above that.
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Because in every tree, everybody's, whether you're a
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guide, facilitator, or participant, you are going
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through some something in that moment.
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And so as a group, as a collective, we witness each
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other and share each other and support each other to go through
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all parts of being without separating masculine or
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feminine. And then there's a lot of
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goofing around and having fun as well.
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And some a little bit around the morning, a little physical
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activities, some whim off things that kind of activate that that
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masculine capacity that I think is important for men to embody,
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to be part of. But we really try and honor both
13:00
throughout the entire retreat without trying to separate or
13:02
make distinctions of them. What we want to do is bring
13:05
people to a point where to a place where they feel heard,
13:09
understood and not judged. Because that's a lot of the
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judgement is something where a lot of people end up deciding to
13:15
stuff things down because of fear of judgement.
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And one of the things that they'll notice when they come on
13:20
to the retreat immediately is they feel comfortable and they
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recognize, wow, this is a place where I'm not going to be judged
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for these things that I've been thinking or holding down maybe
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my whole life since I was a child.
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And to the medicine work and whatnot, obviously bubbles up to
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the top. And then we have a place to
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actually discuss and work through those things with
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various activities and places to honor that, honor the suffering
13:44
and honor the growth. That's that's really what's
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important about it. I think the man definitely need
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that kind of space for expressing their feelings.
13:56
And I am noticing a lot of men very much in their mind and
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sometimes they have harder time to open their hearts or they
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have heart walls and female might be another way around.
14:09
Yeah. How do we help man to be more
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embodied and opening the heart and not so much in the mind in
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in the control and the ego? Yeah, it has to start by
14:20
examples. We have to make it OK for men to
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express themselves. You know, we only give Bill Burr
14:26
as a comedian, he talks about this and it's, I think it's
14:28
really wise. So as we give the men only the
14:31
opportunities to express anger, and I'm OK.
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Really, the emotional landscape is this huge landscape of all
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these different, not even just the four primaries of fear, joy,
14:41
sadness, and anger, but all the different colors amongst all
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those main primary emotions. There's all the frustration,
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there's sadness, there's anguish, there's bliss, there's
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joy. The palette of emotions is huge.
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And when we restrict guys to being like you're OK or you're
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angry and they're growing up in an environment where they're OK,
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how are you doing? I could be really happy, but
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when you ask me how am I doing, I'm OK.
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I can't express my joy or Rachel.
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I'm sad and I don't know how to be sad.
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So therefore I'm just irritable and angry because that's the
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only thing I've been given permission for.
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So a lot of this stuff has to do with opening up the vocabulary
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and the connection in the body with how all these different
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emotions sit and lay in there, identifying them, and then
15:29
seeing what's going on in their life in the external environment
15:33
that's actually causing the emotion to present itself,
15:36
right? Because of emotions and how I
15:38
think about them, they are there as early warning indicators as
15:42
to something that's going on externally or trigger something
15:45
internally from the past. And it's telling you something
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about the environment. It's not there for nothing.
15:49
It's there for a reason. And so when you can really
15:52
identify on this entire landscape of the emotional
15:56
landscape, what am I feeling right now and really put a label
15:59
to it. And then what is going on that's
16:03
leading to this feeling because the feeling comes first and then
16:06
we give it a, you know, cognitive label.
16:08
I'm feeling sad because something happened.
16:10
So, but by not allowing the entire like emotional landscape
16:14
to present itself and to be labeled and identified so that
16:17
we know what's going on where we feel it in our bodies, then we
16:20
can't use that information because it's it's hidden from
16:23
us. So I wonder a lot of stuff we do
16:25
is what are you feeling and slowing down?
16:27
So where do you feel in your body kind of thing?
16:29
OK. And what's going on?
16:30
That's, that's what's going on with you, that's having this
16:34
thing arise. And oftentimes when you make
16:36
that connection of the emotion to what's going on, emotional
16:41
just just evaporates because emotions like I was there to
16:45
tell you something, you heard it, you heard the message.
16:48
Now I don't need to be there anymore.
16:49
Now you can go out and do something with this information
16:52
that you have because the emotions are in, for me
16:54
primarily the process, but also to tell you about what's going
16:58
on in the environment and yourself.
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So we work a lot on those sorts of activities in real time
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because it's a real like in time experience.
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It's not all things happen. There's a, there's an activity
17:11
in a very relatively strict like what we're doing.
17:15
But at any moment, if something comes up for somebody, we give
17:18
them the space to to work through that and help them work
17:20
through it if they don't have experience doing that sort of
17:23
connection with themselves and with their emotional experience.
17:28
I know 'cause you're working with the planned medicine,
17:30
sometimes it does bring up these childhood woundings or ancestral
17:35
woundings or serious traumas. How do you help someone to
17:40
integrate these traumas 'cause sometimes the this earthquakes
17:45
that goes through the landscape and then just totally breaks the
17:48
person apart, 'cause sometimes the planned medicine work is so
17:50
powerful and it takes months to integrate back.
17:54
And I have a client, for instance, now that I'm trying to
17:57
help to integrate and he's having a really hard time with
17:59
the trauma that came up. How would you want someone like
18:02
that? So I think the most important
18:04
thing is to, and it's easy to say, but it's harder to do is to
18:10
allow them is to make sure that they don't feel judged, that
18:13
there's no judgement in the air. Because often times that trauma
18:16
has been tamped down, has not been expressed or even known
18:20
about because of the shame or the guilt or whatever that's
18:23
connected to that trauma. That's why it's been uncovered,
18:26
why it's been buried. And so when you're speaking to
18:30
this person is so like, really let him know it's OK that
18:34
whatever it is that happened to them and that as a guy to
18:38
facilitate or other participant, there's no judgement here.
18:40
This happened, it happened, right?
18:43
So how does this trauma then now what did that trauma teach you
18:47
about how to be in the world? Cause often times these traumas
18:50
will lead to some belief, like they could be small or they can
18:54
be large. I can't be safe in the world.
18:56
I'm never safe. Like it's a trauma that I've
18:57
seen a lot of times. I'm always people that have a
19:00
lot of fear in there. And then they go back to these
19:02
early memories that they might not have had access to say, oh,
19:06
I remember I was left alone in my house with somebody that was
19:09
a known predator. Nothing happened.
19:12
But I knew that something was fishy because of the way mom and
19:15
dad were acting about it. And so now I need to be always
19:18
on the lookout for danger in the world.
19:21
And so I live my entire life on the lookout for danger in the
19:24
world. But I've stuck down that core
19:26
memory. And so now I have this core
19:28
belief. So making that connection with,
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OK, how is this trauma? How did that land you into
19:34
having a belief about how the world works?
19:37
Because we're always trying to make sense of the world.
19:40
And then is this belief true? How would the world look like?
19:44
How would your behavior be? How would you react to
19:46
differently respond differently rather than reacting if, if you
19:50
now believed something different from that original core belief
19:54
that has been operating as your wheel of decision making
19:57
processes, how would you act differently?
20:00
So, oh, I could be this, I could be that.
20:01
Yes, you can, You can do that. So you want to try to.
20:06
Want to try that next time something comes up where you
20:09
feel that now that you've identified the belief, you know
20:12
that it's running in the background like a virus in the
20:13
computer, right? It's operating there.
20:16
Next time you have that feeling, oh, should I be scared in this
20:18
moment to just use the example we're just using, Oh, am I safe
20:21
right now? I am safe right now.
20:24
And then over time, by integrating you can, that belief
20:27
can now leave. It's done its purpose.
20:29
It protected you as a child, no longer needs to be there.
20:34
So that's one of the ways how you do it, a million ways to do
20:36
it. But I think primarily is to like
20:39
work with the person very tenderly, very gingerly and very
20:43
poignantly to identify where that trauma connected to their
20:47
belief and how it's operating in the world with a 0 judgement and
20:51
say, OK, we know that this relationship exists between this
20:55
trauma and this belief and how you're operating in the world.
20:57
Let's try little steps, identify ways, five ways that I was safe
21:01
today where I felt safe. Oh, OK.
21:03
And that becomes more and more. That would just be one example.
21:06
Does that answer the question? Yeah, yeah.
21:07
Thank you. That was very helpful.
21:09
So I feel like everyone can integrate.
21:12
It's just a matter of maybe it takes time.
21:14
Some people integrate faster than others.
21:16
It's important for everyone to do the work.
21:19
And even though I know a lot of people are afraid of doing fly
21:22
medicine, doesn't have to be fly medicine, wouldn't you agree,
21:25
Michael? He has.
21:26
There's many ways to get to the core of where we are.
21:29
Just for medicine is one way. Of course, any way that you any
21:35
activity like even meditation or so as of things pop up and then
21:39
going into that feeling, going into that expression, going into
21:43
that, that that part of self that has been uncovered.
21:46
Anything that allows you to do that is going to give you some,
21:49
some juice to squeeze. It's all about what you do with
21:52
the information you get from the body, from the heart, from the
21:56
mind. Even so, that's the most
21:58
important part, and we have so many.
22:01
If I ask you to remember something, how much can you
22:03
remember when you were 6? Not very much, but you had a
22:06
whole experience while you were 6, moment by moment happening.
22:09
All these things and some of those things we've forgotten
22:12
about. We've obscured them and they're
22:14
still operating because that 6 year old child, 8 year old
22:18
child, 10 year old child, they're all still part of us.
22:21
It's all still in there. It's all part of the memory
22:24
banks. It's all part of you.
22:25
It all remains in the fabric of all of creation.
22:28
So when we can access those things and make sense of them,
22:31
then we're integrating. Then we're growing so that they
22:33
don't, those are the shackles that shackle us to behaving in
22:37
ways and being in ways, medicating ways and doing
22:40
behaviors that we don't want to do to try and escape those, the
22:44
sort of experiences that have colored how we are in the world.
22:47
And so anything you can do that helps that, that doesn't numb
22:51
you and take away from self-awareness, because all
22:54
these things that are operating outside of awareness are just
22:57
things that we can't change them, modify them, or act with
23:01
them unless they're brought to the light of awareness.
23:04
So whatever you have to do, whatever you want to do,
23:07
whatever you feel comfortable doing, whether it be therapy,
23:10
meditation, working with a coach, all these kinds of
23:13
things, different modalities, they all should be leading if
23:16
they're effective to the same sort of outcome, which is how
23:20
can I live without the shackles of ego, live without the
23:23
shackles of core beliefs, live without fear, right?
23:28
This fear is like so many people are just living in fear.
23:31
Everything is a fear based thing.
23:33
So how can I just look with more ease in the world when we remove
23:36
these things, bring them to the light, see how they're working
23:39
in our lives and see how we're affected by and how our behavior
23:42
is actually impacted by these unacknowledged parts of self
23:46
that are in there anyway. Then we can actually be more at
23:50
ease, be more at peace, be more in the present moment, less
23:52
worried about the future, less worried about the past, less
23:54
regretful about the past. Yeah, nothing like the present
23:59
moment and. Being yeah, getting to the
24:01
present is tough because we're trapped by our past and worried
24:04
about our future. Yeah, exactly.
24:06
The past is the depression because we weren't worried about
24:10
living in the past. And then anxiety is the future.
24:13
So people are either anxious or depressed.
24:17
The more we learn how to embody the present moment and be like
24:21
you were saying, Shiva, it is a moment of the now, then, then
24:25
it's that's the true divine masculine.
24:28
So in that context, yeah, I'm interested to talk about
24:32
relationships as well, how these energies of divine masculine,
24:37
divine feminine then interact 'cause we have that within
24:41
ourselves, and how they interact with our partners, 'cause
24:44
obviously our partners are mirrors to us to reflect back to
24:48
those energies. The way I like to explain it is
24:52
that so the men that come to our retreats are, I don't want to
24:55
say conventionally masculine, but they're men that identify as
24:59
primarily masculine, right? They acknowledge that they have
25:03
feminine aspect as well and they want to be in a relationship or
25:07
are in a relationship with a woman who is primarily feminine.
25:11
That's the group that we're working with right now.
25:13
We're working to expand our offerings to women basically
25:17
upside and then to other groups as well.
25:19
But the groups that we started working with are the groups that
25:22
we're most familiar with. So start with what you know.
25:25
So to use very crass, very gross, gross, gross meaning not
25:30
refined language or not refined numbers.
25:34
Imagine that your average male that that comes to our retreat
25:38
is like in embodied as let's say 70% masculine energy, 30%
25:44
feminine. And that's their like base level
25:47
and they're in a relationship with a partner that is maybe 70%
25:50
feminine, 30% masculine. And the differences between men
25:56
and women are not for naughty. They are back in the day when we
26:01
had to live in villages and in small communities and go hunt
26:05
our food and all this stuff. You're much better off in any
26:08
environment having specialists. Everybody has a job that they're
26:12
good at rather than having everybody kind of being mediocre
26:17
at everything. So the masculine is primarily
26:20
involved with going out and doing right, hunting men and.
26:25
Gathering food. Hunting, taking care of the
26:28
village, going out there and taking care of this kind of like
26:31
individual stuff, right? Individual task oriented, like 1
26:35
task, right? You going to hunt the elk or
26:38
the, or the deer or the boar or whatever.
26:40
If your mind is on all these different things and you're
26:42
multitasking, worrying about what's happening in back at home
26:45
and all this kind of stuff, you're not going to get the
26:46
shot, you're not going to throw the spirit because you're
26:49
distracted. So men in general, your average
26:53
man, not all men, not all biological men, but on average
26:57
men, and this is well known, men are more individual focused,
27:01
meaning like they're like laser focused and more task oriented.
27:07
Women on the other hand, just imagine stereotypically back in
27:10
the village, 5 kids, different ages running all over the place.
27:15
There's a spider here, there's a snake there, there's a river
27:17
there. They're open.
27:20
And this is borne out in research.
27:21
Women are much better at multitasking than men.
27:23
Men are not very good at multitasking.
27:25
Distracted, they screw up the what they were supposed to be
27:27
doing because three tasks at one.
27:29
Women are much better than men at multitasking.
27:31
Why? Because they are specialists at
27:34
this, right? Taking care of many things at
27:36
once, simultaneous, right? And also more relational.
27:40
So if you think about having to take care of kids and it takes a
27:42
village, right, if you are a woman and you are not a very
27:46
nice person and you get sick and your kids need help, you might
27:49
not get the help you need. So relations and how appearances
27:53
and how I'm relating to this person and that person are
27:57
having much more impact and have much more importance to your
28:01
average, to the feminine nature than to the masculine nature.
28:04
And as such, our needs as men and women are also different in
28:11
relationship. So women's primary need, because
28:15
they're taking care of all this stuff, is to feel trusting and
28:19
safe to the extent that a man can help his woman really feel
28:23
safe. And I don't mean just safe like
28:25
that she has a car and all that kind of stuff, but really feel
28:27
it's safe to express herself fully emotionally, spiritually,
28:31
what's going on and that she doesn't have a fear that she's
28:35
too much or not enough for her partner.
28:37
She really truly feels embodied safe.
28:40
Like I am safe with this person. He's looking out for me and it's
28:45
taking me into primary consideration that is like
28:49
meeting the needs of the woman of the feminine, the masculine.
28:55
They want to do is to do to provide and to the feeling that
29:00
we get as men that makes us feel most valued in relationship is
29:03
when we feel useful and actually needed.
29:06
When we feel dismissed that we don't add value to the
29:09
relationship. That's where our kind of being
29:13
drops. So women want trust and safety
29:16
and men useful and needed. And then it can go on from
29:19
there. Something that I help guys
29:21
realize another reason why I just safety is so paramount LY
29:27
important for women is the fact that your average woman is 30 to
29:33
50% less strong less physically capable of violence than 50% of
29:41
the population. As an example, I use photo that
29:44
I have of Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan of.
29:47
Course. He's a powerful guy, but he's
29:50
standing and talking and looking up to this other guy named Brock
29:53
Lesnar, who was a heavyweight UFC champion who weighed at that
29:57
time about 300 lbs, and Joe Rogan was about 2:20.
30:00
The size differential between Joe and Brock is about the same
30:04
differential between your average man and your average
30:06
woman. Imagine that the whole world
30:10
that you're walking around is all Brock Lesnar's, right?
30:13
Or imagine that Brock Lesnar was sitting in the sofa next to you
30:17
and he just raises his voice to you, right?
30:20
He weighs 300 lbs, and it's not a fat 300 lbs.
30:23
It's all muscle. Is it also like NCAA and
30:27
wrestling and national champion, UFC heavyweight champion, like
30:32
this guy is not to be trifled with.
30:34
And so he just raises his voice, which is a sign of dominance and
30:38
threat. How are you going to feel in
30:41
that moment? And it was oh, whoa.
30:45
And so be careful with your tone, with your beingness,
30:49
because you don't feel unsafe in the world because you're in the
30:54
50% of the population that is stronger physically and able to
30:59
like deal with violent act more than the answer.
31:02
So be careful with your tone of voice, with your words, Be calm,
31:06
right? Violence is something that's
31:08
very important for a man to be able to use, but judiciously to
31:12
protect, not to threaten. So it's one of the things we
31:15
talked about is to imprint on these guys the importance of
31:19
physical safety, emotional safety for their partners in
31:23
bed. Like his concerned chair.
31:24
Do you take care of her in bed? Are you taking her into primary
31:28
consideration? Is this a partnership in all
31:30
parts? And yeah, because guys will do
31:32
stupid things. Like a client of mine was
31:34
telling me that your boyfriend, they were out in the dark
31:36
parking lot and he says just her, they had taken 2 separate
31:39
cars and he was, you don't need, I don't need to walk you to the
31:42
car. Because for him, it wasn't a big
31:45
deal. And he was looking through the
31:47
world through his eyes. Yeah, I'm perfectly safe.
31:50
And you'll be safe too. But to her, she didn't feel
31:52
safe. And if he could just take that
31:54
extra step in, let me just walk you to the car.
31:55
So make sure you're OK. That's a huge deal.
31:58
So I'm just, it's not a big, it's not a big deal.
32:01
But recognizing that we see the world through different,
32:03
different apparatuses, different, different being a
32:07
being who is who. If someone comes and attacks me,
32:10
I'm going to be able to like, defend myself more than my
32:12
partner is going to be able to. She's only £120.
32:15
I'm 220 lbs. It's just not making that extra
32:19
step to pay attention to what her needs are so that she can
32:22
feel safe is going to make her feel really good in the
32:25
relationship that she feels that OK, this guy's got me and vice
32:29
versa. She asked me to do something and
32:31
I do it well and she and I get recognition for that.
32:34
It makes me feel super, super good because I want to.
32:38
I want her to be happy. I want her to be pleased with me
32:40
and not in that fearful sense that you guys can get into
32:43
because I think that's after the fact.
32:44
When resentment and contempt starts seeping into
32:47
relationships. That happens after a long time.
32:49
Guys do a really good job at the beginning of the relationship.
32:51
They start screwing up as the relationship seems to go down a
32:54
little bit in terms of the excitement of it.
32:57
That's an interesting because it feels like we were just talking
32:59
about hunting. It's like a hunting aspect that
33:03
they get like the adrenaline, they get excited about catching
33:06
their prey in some ways, like the beginner of the
33:08
relationship, but there's that excitement of the hunting game
33:11
and then they get complacent as they get into the relationship.
33:16
And it can be on both parts. A lot of marriages don't
33:19
sustain. We've seen this codependent
33:21
model where there's more divorces that we can count.
33:26
Yeah. So that that's something that
33:29
made me think a lot about the codependent model versus
33:33
independent model. So what you're referring to it,
33:36
it's a model where both make each other kind of
33:40
complementary. But I also believe each one has
33:44
to do their work and really find that safety within themselves,
33:47
find their love within themselves, find that wholeness
33:50
within themselves, and then they come together from that whole
33:54
place. And then that's the true divine
33:57
union in the sense of the relationship where you first
34:00
found the union within yourself and then you come together to
34:04
consciously grow together. What you said is what you just
34:08
said is very important because people think of the relationship
34:12
as the only thing, but there's three, there's three parts to a
34:15
relationship. There's partner one, partner 2,
34:18
and the relationship partner one or partner 2 isn't doing their
34:22
own growth. There's a quote from Nietzsche
34:24
that I can't, that I don't remember exactly, but the gist
34:26
is this. A long term relationship, a
34:28
marriage, is the longest conversation you will ever have,
34:32
right? The longest conversation.
34:34
And if you're not as individuals growing, right, growing within
34:39
yourself, you're going to run out of things to say to one
34:42
another. If you want to keep the
34:43
relationship interesting, both partners need to continue their
34:47
paths of individual growth so that when they come together,
34:50
hey, this is what I did. This is my growth edge.
34:52
This is what I learned today. And you, there's something
34:54
interesting to talk about. I'm sure you've seen this.
34:57
Everybody's seen the old couple at the coffee shop or not or
35:01
eating and they could run out of stuff to say many years ago
35:05
either because they were scared that if one grows and the other
35:08
ones, they're going to grow apart.
35:09
That's not the case. You grow together, but you also
35:12
have to grow individually. Just that exactly what you said,
35:15
because otherwise you're going to it, it, it sounds kind of
35:18
silly. You're going to run out of
35:18
things to say. You're not going to be
35:20
interesting. There's not going to be anything
35:21
new in the world to talk about what's going on in you today.
35:25
What's going on in the other person today.
35:27
He'll run out of stuff. He'll be the two.
35:28
He'll be the old couple that had stayed together for 60 years
35:32
just out of convenience or for the kids or because social
35:34
expectations as you couldn't get broken up and neither of them
35:38
grew. Maybe because the other one
35:40
didn't want to allow the other one to grow or vice versa, or
35:43
somebody didn't feel that they had permission to grow or
35:45
whatever those things are. They run out of things to say.
35:49
When we as individual partners in each relationship can
35:51
continue to grow individually, just as you were saying, then
35:54
the conversation is always alive.
35:56
Our lovers with new eyes every day and the relationship doesn't
36:00
get old and super excited, super exciting.
36:03
Every day is exciting and I'm blessed to be in a relationship
36:05
like that now where we're both doing our work and growing,
36:09
taking new activities, learning things about ourselves and
36:13
coming back and telling you, what did I learn about myself
36:15
today? This is what I learned, this is
36:16
what I did. So exciting.
36:18
And then getting feedback and talking about that.
36:19
And every day we talked for at least an hour about what's going
36:23
on and what we're doing. We haven't run out of things to
36:25
say. I don't think we ever will.
36:26
And that's my hope for everyone. And I can resonate them the same
36:31
type of marriage union for almost a decade now.
36:35
And we've grown so much together and it's been beautiful.
36:40
We call them mirrors, like vibration mirrors where we just
36:45
reflect back constantly. And it's been a beautiful
36:48
journey. And I can't even imagine where I
36:50
would have been if I didn't have this journey.
36:52
So I think sometimes we have to go through relationships that
36:57
don't work out to understand what we really want.
36:59
And I definitely went through that as well to understand what
37:02
type of relationship doesn't serve me to come into the next.
37:07
I guess the energetics of it, like the magnetism versus the
37:11
electricity, so electromagnetic. And I do feel the woman, she is
37:16
the magnet, she's the womb, she's holding that that
37:20
container as well. And so it does work together
37:23
really nicely when it's in pure balance and the conscious
37:26
intention for, like you said, for each day in shamanism.
37:30
The way we got married was shaman said it was a Burning
37:34
Man. It was a beautiful wedding.
37:35
It was like, Deanna, you stand on your mountain, Daniel, you
37:38
stand on your mountain, you're visiting each other, but you
37:40
don't go into into each other's swamps.
37:43
And a lot of our relationship, it's like each morning is, yeah,
37:47
it's like we're in a new contract, right?
37:49
It's untimed and not not tying and not.
37:52
So we're not here to navigate each other, but actually each
37:57
one is on their own very powerful places.
37:59
And then it's just a cool creation.
38:02
Yeah, it's it's a dance. It's a dance.
38:04
And that. And what I am observing,
38:06
Michael, is that maybe because of my female.
38:09
So I'm curious to hear from you. I have a lot of girlfriends that
38:12
in the process of divorce right now.
38:14
And then often they are the ones initiating it because they're
38:17
doing the spiritual work. And they came to a place where
38:21
they in a certain frequency that is no longer matching their
38:26
husbands that still live in the old paradigm or not wanted to do
38:29
the work or understand they need to do the work.
38:32
So there's that disconnect. Yeah, and that's a good .22
38:37
things that you made me think of when when you were mentioning
38:39
that about divorce in a couple. So we have some guys that have
38:43
been divorced, have been on a second relationship or what not.
38:45
And what I tell them is the same thing I would tell your friends
38:48
we're getting divorced is when so often the typical pattern is
38:53
when one gets divorced, right or one is separating, they
38:57
immediately blame the other partner and say oh, if he wasn't
39:01
or if she wasn't this way, blah, blah, blah, blah.
39:03
And my, what I recommend people do, if you're getting divorced
39:09
or separated, you're not going to be with that person anymore.
39:12
That person is off the table. What did you do?
39:16
What? Because we're also responsible
39:18
for it and other people aren't responsible for us.
39:20
We're not responsible for other people.
39:22
What did you do that allowed this relationship to go the way
39:26
that it went? What was your response?
39:28
Pay attention only to your responsibility to what happened.
39:32
It could be early on red flags that I ignored, blah, blah,
39:35
blah, blah, blah. I saw this.
39:36
He didn't treat me. He didn't do this for me, or he
39:39
yelled at me at this thing when he was upset or he was drinking
39:41
or whatever the heck. Whatever those red flags were
39:44
that were avoided, whose responsibility was the person
39:47
who avoided it? Make an inventory of your own
39:51
responsibility to what didn't work in that relationship so
39:54
that when you go to the next opportunity, you say, oh, OK,
39:59
I'm not going to ignore that red flag when it comes up, will you
40:02
talk about it? Or I'm just going to not waste
40:04
my time here where I close off my heart when he needed me, for
40:08
example, or I withdrew when she was emotional and I wasn't able
40:12
to contain her when she got upset, I just withdrew or went
40:16
to do drinking or whatever it was or played by video games,
40:18
whatever those things. What are the things that you did
40:22
right that you are responsible for?
40:24
Because as soon as. You just put it on the other
40:26
person. Guess what?
40:27
What happens all the time? They drop right into the next
40:30
relationship in the same same pattern happens because they and
40:34
then they believe the same the blame.
40:36
Oh, it's that person again, He's an asshole or she's a bitch or
40:39
whatever they say. And so now the common
40:41
denominator in both of these relationships is you and you met
40:45
the same person, same pattern that has unravelled itself.
40:48
That self-awareness, that's paying attention to what your
40:50
contribution was, whether it was early on, whether you should
40:53
have been in a relationship in the 1st place or later on where
40:58
you didn't work on things in the time that it was the right time
41:01
to work on them. So that's the thing I would tell
41:04
your girlfriends. And then I told the guys that
41:05
are in divorce or looking for a new partnership, how can you do
41:08
better? Where did you ignore red flag?
41:12
Super important. The other thing I wanted to that
41:14
you mentioned about your relationship, which I'm so happy
41:17
for you because it's amazing, huh?
41:18
There'll be a relationship like that.
41:20
Is that there's something that psychologists will tell you?
41:23
Oh, yeah. The honeymoon period of a
41:24
relationship is maximum two years, right?
41:28
That's based on research, that's based on averages.
41:32
And what we do in our culture is we take something that is common
41:37
and we normalize it, right? Say, oh, this happens a lot, so
41:40
this is normal, not the truth. Just because something is common
41:43
doesn't mean it's normal or it's healthy.
41:45
It just means that it's common. That's it.
41:47
A lot of people, it's like the obesity epidemic in the country.
41:51
It is common. 60% of Americans are obese, right?
41:55
But that's not normal. It's because of our food system.
41:58
It's because of our lack of exercise.
42:00
It's because of our lack of engagement with the world,
42:03
right? But the tendency is to normalize
42:05
it. OK.
42:06
Now maybe it's OK to be higher weight or it's OK or if you
42:10
falling out of love in two years because the honeymoon period is
42:12
over. And we normalize these things
42:15
that by normalizing them, we allow them to be normal.
42:18
We call them normal, but it's not the healthy way of being
42:22
that we want to be so that we can be fully in our best lives.
42:27
And the honeymoon period is another thing that I rail
42:29
against is now, if you continue to grow, if you continue to be
42:32
the best part you can, you continue to work together in the
42:34
ways that you were eloquently saying a little bit ago and with
42:37
your partner, then the honeymoon period doesn't have to end.
42:40
You can be married to the same person for 60 years and still
42:43
see them with new eyes every day still.
42:47
Who are you today? Like you said, not tying these
42:49
knots, but then tying the knots like helping each other and just
42:52
be more and more in love. The hunting Ford.
42:54
I, I love my partner more today than I did the in the first two
42:57
years. And I didn't think it would be
42:59
possible, right. So what I'm experienced, what I
43:03
hear your experience is not common, but I think that is what
43:06
we need to normalize is that that is the relationship we all
43:09
long for, right? So anyway, get up my soapbox.
43:15
Thank you for that. I agree with you, it's not
43:17
normal and I want it to be normal.
43:19
I think divine union and this type of relationship is the
43:22
right model. And I think when the collective,
43:26
each person does the work and really reflects back, like you
43:30
said, between relationships and catches patterns and realizes
43:34
what's not serving them any longer, behaviors that not
43:37
serving a type of connections are not serving them.
43:40
Then they get more clear about what does serve them.
43:43
And so they have more chance to get into a relationship and work
43:48
and continue working. It's an art.
43:50
Relationships are art, but it's reflection of who we are and how
43:54
we engage with the world and the work we're doing and improving
43:58
ourselves and and partnership is a big piece of it.
44:02
For me, partnerships have been catalyst in my awakening and
44:05
each person, they say some beings, some relationship there
44:10
for a reason, some for a season and some for a lifetime,
44:13
recognizing what they are for. Sometimes it's meant to be
44:18
short, but there's something that activates on the soul level
44:21
for us, that spark or some sort of curiosity, whatever that is.
44:25
And that's OK too. Like I like how you said,
44:28
learning the lessons, reflecting on the lessons and then applying
44:32
them to our daily life. And but without judgement, with
44:35
full forgiveness and compassion, that maybe some relationships
44:40
just run their course. Maybe some relationships are
44:42
meant to be short or longer and sometimes people grow apart and
44:47
some souls choose to evolve and some don't want to.
44:50
They're just very comfortable where they are.
44:53
So I think what's that term that's they're conscious on
44:56
coupling so that. Happens.
45:01
That's a California 1 conscious of coupling, right?
45:05
Yeah, but that's beautiful too. Like also knowing that maybe
45:10
there's a place where separation can happen.
45:13
So. So I respect those who can
45:16
consciously uncouple whether it's divorce or whatever, where
45:19
it's done in peace, integrity to move on their journeys when they
45:24
need to versus that reflection of the inner self.
45:28
If it's an internal war and then you're trying to control and
45:30
then the divorce exactly. And all the things you hear out
45:33
there, it's also a reflection of the work the person has done.
45:37
So thank you so much. This has been such a beautiful,
45:40
interesting conversation and if there are any men out there or
45:44
women interested in your retreats, how they can find you
45:47
and work with you. Yeah.
45:50
So for the men's retreats, it's Moi dot community.
45:55
So that that's the URL is Moi dot community.
45:58
And interestingly enough, with the one on ones, when I work
46:01
one-on-one with people, my office in Northern California,
46:05
it's about 75% women that I work with one-on-one, which is it's
46:09
harder to get guys into to. They know this is going to be an
46:13
emotional experience. It's harder to get guys to get
46:15
through that threshold. For anybody who wants to work
46:17
with me one-on-one, it's michaeltiernoguide.com.
46:22
You can find out how to reach me there, contact links and all
46:24
that kind of stuff. And a lot of information about
46:26
my approach and how I see a lot of these things, some of the
46:29
things that we've talked about today.
46:31
And so yeah, michaeltiernoguide.com and Moi
46:35
dot community are the best ways to reach me.
46:39
Beautiful. And we'll include that in the
46:41
show notes as well. And Michael, as we wrap up, any
46:45
final words for the audience kind of on this topic and advice
46:49
for those who may be seeking relationships or seeking A
46:55
deeper relationship with themselves?
46:58
Sure. Well, I think you may have
47:00
mentioned this before the before the before we started recording,
47:04
but it is the message. It is the simplest, most basic
47:08
message. But it seems like the hardest
47:10
thing for people to do is that when they're engaging with
47:13
somebody or engaging with life is to take it down a little bit
47:18
in terms of speed. Slow down a little bit, make
47:23
room, make room to really hear the other person deeply, not
47:28
just nonviolent communication and doing the steps, but like
47:32
really take the time that's needed to understand the other
47:34
person when you're doing something, when you're eating.
47:37
Really treasure that bite that, you know, these animals and
47:40
plants gave up their lives for us to, to really get nourished
47:44
by them, to slow down. And you will actually get more
47:51
done if you do things slowly than if you rush through things.
47:55
Often times when we rush through things with this combination, a
47:57
conversation and we're rushing through the conversation, we
48:00
didn't hear the person and then we need to re explain ourselves.
48:03
We felt we lost the play and all of a sudden what we wanted to be
48:06
a short conversation ends up being three conversations to get
48:08
to the point, for example, or you're trying to do a task and
48:12
because you're rushing through it, you do it poorly, you have
48:14
to redo it. So my best advice, like if it's
48:18
just a general statement, it's just trying to do everything a
48:20
little slower, do it at 5 speed just to make sure that you are
48:24
able to do things maximally. You'll get more done, you'll
48:27
enjoy life more, you'll be more present, and you'll be in a
48:31
greater sense of joy because you'll be able to experience
48:34
what's had going on rather than rushing through it.
48:36
If there was as if there was somewhere to get to, right?
48:39
We're going somewhere, but we don't know where we're going.
48:41
There's nowhere to get to. Just slow the F down.
48:44
So that's what I would tell him. Beautiful.
48:48
Slow down. Be like a turtle.
48:52
That's my. Favorite.
48:53
Thank you so much, Michael. Thank you everyone for tuning
48:56
in. Thank you so much for listening
48:59
to Soul Communication. I'm excited to share that my
49:03
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Manifests your reality and reclaim your cosmic power is out
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It just hit bestseller early in September.
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The book covers everything from galactic history to Kundalini
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