Latest / How Have You Not Seen This? / Episode 5: Pride & Prejudice

Transcript

Episode 5: Pride & Prejudice · How Have You Not Seen This?

• Leslye: umbrage with the time period is something that I'm trying to like unpack. Miriam: that's like if I was like, I'm not into the 1500s. Nothing good happened Leslye: Well I I don't think anybody's into the fifteen hundreds, Kate: Ha ha ha Miriam: Ha. Leslye: Miriam. What are you talking about? Kate: Okay. Miriam: I hate Elizabethan times. Leslye: Wait, you know what? Kate: Really don't enjoy the Middle Ages. Yeah. Leslye: Wait, I'm gonna I'm actually with you here because with the exception of Back to the Future and Back to the Future is a big exception, I don't like the nineteen fifties. Miriam: interesting. Interesting. Kate: See? Leslye: American nineteen fifties I'm not into, actually. Yeah, like the poodle Kate: Yeah. Miriam: Okay. Well I Leslye: skirts or whatever the fuck. And no one said that phrase. Kate: You're like it's just not for you. And and that is how Miriam: Yeah. Kate: I feel about approximately like seventeen ninety-five to eighteen, like fifteen Miriam: Yeah. Kate: or whenever this book came out. Stories about noble people in England. Miriam: You're just not into the Napoleonic period. on the opposite side, I would say that Georgian England, the early 1800s is basically My Roman Empire. Yeah, it is my Roman Empire. I think about it a lot. Think about it a lot. Leslye: It's your Roman Empire. okay, got it. Got it. Yep. Miriam: wish I could live there or at least time travel vacation to it. Leslye: my Roman Empire is the Vietnam War. Miriam: Yeah, apparently. Leslye: we're laughing because it's a new development. We're not laughing at the war. Miriam: It's a new development. Yeah. Kate: At war in general. Yeah. Leslye: but it is the I think about it all the time now, now that I've started Miriam: Hm, yeah. Leslye: watching Ken Burns documentary. Miriam: Kate is your Roman Empire? Leslye: yeah. Kate: It'd be something so far off Miriam: Kate's like the Roman Empire. Kate: like orcas. I don't know. Like any kind of like sea creature. Marine life. Leslye: What? Miriam: I think I w Leslye: Kate. Miriam: meant like a time period, but okay, okay. Kate: I thought Leslye: Kate's like Kate: you meant like a topic that you go go deep into Leslye: Wait, so you're like sitting Miriam: I guess that counts. Leslye: you're sitting around thinking about dolphins? Like you're just thinking about them all the time? Kate: Yeah. Miriam: Wow. Okay. Leslye: You just I love how she's like Kate: Just look up animal fun facts like all day, guys. Leslye: Welcome to How Have You Not Seen This, a podcast about crimes against cinema, where one of the three of us confesses there is an iconic movie we have never seen, and the other two ask the only logical question, how have you not seen this? I'm Leslye Miriam: I'm Miriam. Kate: And I'm Kate. Leslye: The format is simple. There's a confession, an interrogation, atonement, and absolution. At the end of all of this, we'll ask the pivotal question, can we still be friends? Miriam: Kate, it's time for you to tell us. What movie have you not seen? Kate: I have not seen Pride and Prejudice. Because As you both know, I don't like Jane Austen. Miriam: Don't say it no. Leslye: So Kate at Kate: So I didn't sign Leslye: for Kate: myself up to watch a movie about a book that I didn't like. I didn't Leslye: so you didn't like the book? Miriam: Wow. Kate: read this one to be fair. I think I read Sense and Sensibility and Leslye: okay. I like, You didn't read the book, did you? Kate: a couple of other ones I gave up on her. Miriam: Now, just so everybody knows we're like really good friends. I would say like best friends. And I think we you you too, Leslye No, you you're you're there too. But Leslye: yeah, yeah. What? What? What how do I fit in here? okay, all right. Miriam: I love you. I think you're right about so many things. So The fact that you Our smartest friend, do not like Jane Austen is a sore point and we've discussed it many times, we've fought about it many times, Leslye: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Miriam: I don't understand. And you have clearly never read any of her books, You have it out for her! What up? Leslye: Ha ha ha. Kate: Yeah. I I think I read Sense and Sensibility. listen, This harks back to an argument like ten years ago. We had a knockdown, drag out argument about who is better, Mary Shelley or Jane Austen. And I argued in favor of Mary Shelley. I was the only one who argued in favor of her. Everyone else voted Jane Austen. Anyway, Miriam: Mm-hmm. Kate: it really dates back to that And as someone who doesn't like Jane Austen, you don't just like casually drop that in conversation. Like I Miriam: No you don't. Kate: know people are gonna come for me. Leslye: it's something that you don't own up to like when it's happening. Like people Miriam: Yeah. It's controversial. Kate: I you mean Leslye: could be talking about, like, what are you gonna do? Slip in like I don't like Jane Austen? Like what's the point? Kate: it's not something that comes up in casual conversation often. But Miriam, you do love anything British of that time period, TV shows, movies, books, all of it. And it is not my preferred Miriam: Yeah. Kate: time period. So let me just put this caveat on it. I can appreciate what Jane Austen did for women writers and not like Jane Austen novels. We'll just Make that blanket statement. I do appreciate the value that she brought to Women writers Everywhere. But I don't like her books. storylines. I don't enjoy Miriam: You mean the one book Leslye: you haven't the the one book of hers that you read? Miriam: the one book you read of hers. I actually would posture that you actually don't like Jane Austen movies versus her books. Kate: No, I don't like the books either. I don't find it cute, romantic, the wittiness that people like about her. the idea of a story and I do know what happens in Pride and Prejudice, right? I do live in the world. but the idea of the Miriam: What do you what Kate: daughters and they have to get married off. For money, basically. is so terrible. That is what they're if to get married to a rich guy, right? At least one of Miriam: For money. Mm-hmm. Kate: has to marry a rich guy to like continue the estate or whatever. No, I have read this book. I have read this book. Because it's Mr. Darcy, right? It's I've read this book. Yeah, I didn't like him. I don't find him charming. Miriam: Ja ja. Leslye: Yes, this is Mr. Darcy. Yeah. We can we can confirm Mr. Darcy. Yeah. Miriam: Did you did you have Kate: It's Elizabeth Bennett and Mr. Miriam: set it and Kate: Darcy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Miriam: have you seen the 1995 BBC version of this, Just just checking Just checking. Kate: No. Why would I put myself through that. I just don't Leslye: Mm-hmm. Kate: find that story I don't love the society, of like England of that time. Does that make sense? Which is a lot of content. It's a lot of content. I just like I just I Leslye: Why? But why? Like Kate: don't people like swoon over this book and this I assume the movie and I just don't find it swoonworthy. Miriam: Wow, How are we even friends? How are we even friends? Leslye: I don't know I don't know how I don't know how Kate: And we like a lot of the other same stuff, just not nothing from like Miriam: Ha ha ha. Kate: 1800 England. Like I'm out. Miriam: be clear to our listeners, we are referring to the Pride and Prejudice 2005 edition because there have been just a couple of adaptations starring Keira Knightley, directed by Joe Wright. I feel like it's important to make sure everybody knows that. And Kate, Leslye: Yeah, good call. Miriam: what do you know, if anything, about this particular adaptation of Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice, which you hate? Kate: I presume it follows the story of the book. So there's that I don't know who the other sisters are, like who the actresses are. Mr. Darcy's is Colin Firth, right? Or no? Or the guy from Succession. Leslye: We can't confirm or deny Kate: Well Miriam: And this one, it's the guy from Succession. Kate: okay. I don't know his name. Sorry guy from Succession. No, she's so confused. I've rattled Leslye: Miriam, Miriam, do you understand the podcast? Like Kate: her brain. This Jane Austen stuff is rattling her brain. It's not working like normal. She's Leslye: It's really fucking her over. Yeah. Kate: trying desperately to catch Miriam: so upset. Holding I'm holding back tears. Leslye: I'm assuming that you don't think you'll like this movie. Like you're you are assuming that you will not like this movie. Okay. Kate: Correct. That's correct. I assume I will not like this movie. I listen, I'm open to being wrong about that. We'll give it our best shot and see. Maybe Leslye: Yikes. Kate: in this new phase of life I will like Jane Austen movies. You never know. Leslye: Well, we appreciate Kate: probably not. Leslye: you going into it open minded. with no prejudice at all. Pride and Pre Pride and Prejudice. You guys, I said the title. Okay. Kate: With zero prejudice and no pride. Miriam: Yes Nice. Good job. Leslye: Miriam, do you think Kate will like this movie? Miriam: I mean, I hate to say it, but I know she's not gonna like it. I know she's gonna be all like, they're selling off the daughters. Leslye: Ha ha ha. Mm. Miriam: I hate umpire wastes. Kate: Wait, umpire or empire? Leslye: Umpire? Kate: It's isn't it umpire? She definitely Leslye: Did you say umpire wastes? Kate: said umpire. Miriam: it's pronounced umpire? Leslye: No it's not. It's but it's pronounced Kate: I'm pretty sure it's correct. Miriam: It's spelled Empire, but I think it's umpire. Leslye: umpire? Miriam: Mmm, pretty sure, Leslye: When we come back, we will know the Okay. Miriam, you don't need to be Miriam: Empire waste. Empire waste. Kate: All right then. Leslye: Yeah, you don't need to be cruel, Miriam. Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: Okay, I think Kate will hate this movie, start to finish. However, I do think Kate will like aspects of the filmmaking. Like I think she will appreciate Maybe some of the performances, the design of the movie. I think you'll appreciate it. I think you'll like, Wow, that looks good and that's a beautiful movie. Or you'll say I liked Keira Knightley that's my thought. Miriam: I hope so. Because will I Leslye: This is really contentious. Miriam: will say this movie, in addition to enjoying Jane Austen, this is one of my favorite movies of all time. Leslye: What? Miriam: Of all time. I could watch Leslye: Well Miriam: it every single day. And it's the movie that I would want to live in the most. I'll get into that more Leslye: Wow. Okay. Kate: Well, Mir it Miriam: when we chat. Kate: was nice being friends for Miriam: It was really nice being friends. We had a good run. We had a really good run. We had a really good run. Yeah. Kate: Like thirty five years, but yeah, we had a great run. Leslye: We did. Yeah. It went well. Yeah. Until this moment. Until this exact moment. And I'm glad we we recorded it. Like I'm glad that it's like saved, you know, for all posterity. Miriam: yeah. It's nice to have proof Kate: yeah. Mm-hmm. Really have to like Miriam: of Yeah. Kate: to bookend. Miriam: It's nice to have proof of when your friendship dies. It's good. Ha ha ha. Leslye: Okay, we're gonna jump forward in time to a moment where Kate has seen the two thousand five adaptation of Pride and Prejudice. And I think it's gonna be a bloodbath. Kate: I think I'm gonna get cancelled, is what I think. Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: Stay tuned. Leslye: You should set this up Miriam. Miriam: Ugh, I'm afraid. Kate, how did you feel about a little movie called Pride and Prejudice? Kate: Well, well, well, my friends. let's start with the things I liked. We'll start on a positive Miriam: jeez. Kate: things I liked. There were some really pretty shots of people off in the distance surrounded by lovely scenery. Those were really nice. there were some witty bits of dialogue, I'll give it that. Jane Austen. Miriam: Thank you. Thank you, Jane Austen. Kate: okay, you know who's a real delight? Rosamond Pike. I really enjoy her in everything and I think she did a great job with this character. I think this character could have been terrible Leslye: Yeah, she is. Miriam: she's fantastic. she's fantastic. Kate: and she did a great job at it. I will say, that I liked it better as a movie than a book. I have not read the book since high school, so take that with a very large caveat. Leslye: Yeah. Kate: but I think, and that's a real rarity, right? Like usually you like the book Leslye: Yeah. Kate: better because you build the world on your own head. But it was easier for me to understand why people Women in particular like this type of thing. Like, for instance, in my head, when I read the book, Mr. Darcy was just a much bigger asshole than he comes across in this movie. Leslye: Right. Kate: to be clear, I still don't find him swoon worthy. but I just I was Miriam: Ha ha. Kate: like, okay, I he has some redeeming qualities, even though he does have a marble bust of himself in his house, which I think is a big red flag, Leslye: Right. Kate: ladies. Leslye: He does. Miriam: That's just something you did, you know. There were no cameras. You either did a painting or a bust. Kate: It's just something something rich. Yeah, it's a selfie. Leslye: Yeah, it's a selfie. It's a selfie, Kate. Kate: Okay. I if you had a giant selfie of yourself hanging up in your house, I would also think that's a red flag. I'll say that the biggest like swoon moment, right, when they are walking across the field early in the morning and they come up and they're gonna like confess their feelings for each other finally, right? In the middle of that. I'm getting text messages from Leslye about Avatar. So it comes across Miriam: Ha ha Kate: my screen on my laptop and it's just like they like reach each other and she picks up his hand and gives it a kiss. And it's supposed to be like the beautiful Leslye: Yeah. Kate: moment. And Leslye's text just says, In all caps, is Michelle Rodriguez's nipple out? And I was like, Okay. Really breaking the moment. Breaking the moment for me. Leslye: It just looked like it in that moment. I had to rewind it. I was like, wait, what? What? Kate: So I probably should have silenced my text while I was watching that. Leslye: Yeah, that's on you. Kate: listen, I think overall it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. I think if you like this type of story, you'll probably like it. And if you don't like this type of story, well, it has some pretty shots and it's not too long, so you'll make it through. That is my take on Pride of Prejudice. Leslye: Wow. Miriam: Kate, even though you didn't hate it, I'm still deeply offended by your review of it. Kate: It's not a review, it's just my take on like if I get yeah, my reaction. Miriam: By your reaction of it. I'm deeply offended. You're like, it has some like nice shots, no big deal. Kate: It did. It had some lovely shots of people walking through fields or standing in Leslye: You have to talk about the stuff you didn't like. Kate: a field. Leslye: You have to talk about the things you didn't like now. You have to talk about Miriam: Didn't you like Yeah, what didn't Kate: I mean, I don't love the story. I probably enjoy it better in this phase of life than I did as a teenager. but I just don't well, Leslye: So why don't you like it, the story? Kate: we talked about this, I think, before, but I don't enjoy the the premise of I need to find a husband to save the family estate. My parents are like shipping us off to get married, because we have no other way of taking care of ourselves, because we're women and our family happened to the family estate. They Miriam: Yeah, but Kate. Kate: don't really explain it in the movie, I think, but in the book it's more right like the dad. Yeah, I know, I understand that. Leslye: It's inheritance law. They don't have to explain it. It's something that exists. Kate: I but I don't love that as a premise of a story. Miriam: just challenge you for one second because Kate: Sure. Miriam: there are only a few female voices in this time and that's why I think Jane Austen is so beloved because this is a plight for women for thousands and thousands of years of history. I understand if maybe you don't like the story, but the whole point is that this mother she's so maligned, Mrs. Bennett. But in reality, she is in a situation where she has five daughters. There's no other way for them to survive in the world unless they get married to provide for their financial future. So to me, it's like this is what women had to go through. especially Pride and Prejudice. It is, it is not so much about the fact that like, like there is romance, but it's actually a very practical look. And I think that this movie does it well this is what these women have to do to survive in the world. unfortunately, their estate is entailed. Their father can't take care of them. I feel like it's bigger than just like Elizabeth and Darcy. I think there's a romance, but I feel like Jane Austen's underlining points are like, This is the situation that women find themselves in. And it's like, let's take a look at how this one family deals with it. Kate: I don't think those things are at odds with each other. I just think that I can appreciate that and the fact that she's writing from a place of where she was in in her life and that that's where the world was at the time. And by the way, remains in a lot of places around the world. And Miriam: Yeah. Kate: I know that you two don't know what I do for my job, but I work on that. so it's you know, like I don't need yeah, Leslye: No, no. Nor do I care to know, yeah. Miriam: Mm-hmm. Kate: because I don't enjoy watching what's essentially a rom com, right, around that premise is saying that I can't appreciate what a character in that time would have gone through. it's not something that I look at and I go, I get comfort from that, I think a way a lot of people do when they read Jane Austen or they watch these films. I don't see that as being in conflict with each other. I really Leslye: So this is Kate: appreciate what Jane Austen did and brought to the page and the fact that that was her life then and what the world was like then and also not want to watch that on a Saturday night. Miriam: But I think there's so much amazing like societal commentary in Pride and Prejudice I could see how maybe it's like not top of mind, but there is so much smart writing. Like I always love Kate: I get it. I see it. Miriam: the scene where Charlotte says to her, I am 27 years old and I am scared and I'm gonna make this decision to marry Mr. Collins and don't judge me for it. I think those moments are are great and very interesting Leslye: I think that what listen, this is getting really heated, and question is what Kate: Ha ha. Miriam: I know. every time Leslye: Jane Austen wrote I don't even know if it's satire, to be quite honest. I think it's more like the interior life of women, which you know, nobody really Kate: Yeah. Yeah. Miriam: Mm-hmm. Leslye: cared about that much. Miriam: I totally agree with you. I think that is where I take offense on the surface, yeah, it is just a movie about women getting married, for romance or money But I think that's what I really like what you said. It's about like the interior life of women. And I feel like this is why this film resonates with me because it captures so beautifully these small moments between the sisters and the family, like, when Keira Knightley and Rosamund Pike are under the sheets, like kind of giggling together, and like all the family moments these beautifully executed, art like scenes where, you're seeing them all at the table and they're eating breakfast or after the Netherfield ball, they're these just great family moments in these scenes. So I feel like that's what I really love about this film is that it does show this interior life of these women and of this family. Kate: Yeah, I think that's what most people do. And that's the general, literary critique of Jane Austen. And that not being my go to kind of story lessens that in any way. I just think that it's Miriam: Yeah. Kate: not for me. I don't get those feels from that the way a lot of women do. Leslye: you're saying that you can appreciate it from this like larger bird's eye view, and that you're like, Kate: Yeah, absolutely. Leslye: I respect that people would enjoy this, et cetera, et cetera. I think what's interesting is like what if you can isolate moments that you're like, this bothers me. Like it bothers me that Darcy is an asshole, because I can tell you the part that bothers me about Jane Austen, and it's also the thing that makes her great, but the thing that really bugs me is like how cringe some people are. Like it's just almost I can't take her mom in this Miriam: Mm-hmm. Leslye: movie, this book. It was the same thing with the nineteen ninety-five miniseries. Like, it's just the character. And Miriam's correct. Like when she sees that, she's like, I really feel for this woman because she's in such a desperate situation. And I watch it and I'm like, this bitch is driving me crazy. Like pull it together, you know? Kate: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Leslye: So I guess what I'm interested in is like those aspects of it. What is it that kind of sticks out to you as the thing I don't like about it is blank? Kate: I hear what you're saying. There's a lot of characterization of types of people that happen here that get blown up into being very big things that are supposed to add to the comedy of it, that was my take on it at least. I don't know, maybe it's all the balls. Like I just why are we going to more balls? Leslye: That sounded so funny. Like I was like, wait, dances or it's all those balls that we have to fondle. Kate: Yeah, dances to be clear, dances is dances. Miriam: I wonder if you saw this movie and you didn't know the material that it came from was Kate: Yeah. Miriam: Jane Austen, would you have liked it? Because here's the thing I love the 1995 BBC version of this, of course. I love that mini series I love Jennifer Ely. I love Colin Firth, But I do prefer this movie, which is also a controversial statement because it really cuts out a lot of the story and a lot of the characters. And I think that was the big critique at Leslye: Yeah. Kate: It does. Yeah, it does. Yeah. Miriam: the time I do think that Joe Wright was able to Really hone in, like take the best elements of the book, he was did such an amazing job of cutting down the story, really focusing in on the the details, the family, and efficiently keeping things moving. Like this movie has a fantastic. Kate: Yeah, it was very efficient. Miriam: And the pacing is fantastic. There's constant energy to every single scene. Like just from the beginning, when she is coming in from you know reading in the field, you're like seeing this sumptuous cinematography, but you're also like following her on the journey, like through the farm, and you're getting the sense of like really living in it. Like I think I said in our intro, like I could live in this movie because of how well shot it is and how. Real everything feels like. I feel like I could literally be teleported into the screen. And I just think like the balls, like the all the oners that he's using are just such an efficient way to get through those ball scenes. And like you feel like you're in the crush of this crowd. To me, the energy of seeing all these people and they're dancing, and the music is great. Like it really worked for me. I would have to say the balls are one of my favorite parts. Especially the like the Netherfield ball scene where you really see all these little moments where you're like, this family is embarrassing poor Elizabeth so badly. Like her sister is playing the piano badly, her mother's throwing dessert on passerbys. Like like Leslye: Haha, I forgot. Miriam: Mr. Collins is like going up to Mr. Darcy and and being a creep, It's really like the one take is so well done. The camera movement is amazing. The camera choreography, in addition to like the choreography and blocking of the actors, is just so perfectly done. So I feel like I feel like you have to kind of step back from the whole like Jane Austen of it all and just appreciate that this is a incredibly well made movie. Kate: I don't disagree with that. I think I said at the beginning I really enjoyed a lot of the shots. Like Miriam: Ha ha Kate: I thought was very pretty. I I don't have a any objection to that. I think my primary purpose though of watching it is the story, right? And I can appreciate that. I think for me, I can appreciate all those things. and I think this is where maybe this movie succeeded in a way that the book did not with me, is that it helped me visualize it in a manner where it was more enjoyable. Than what I had envisioned in my head, which I think I go very quickly to sort of like the bad parts of that time period without the joy of that time period. Does that make sense? Like I go real quick into the societal implications Leslye: sense. Yeah. Kate: of this, how fucked up it all was, how you know, all of that. And I get like real Depressed about that. And then I'm like, this Darcy guy over here is like fucking with everybody's life. He's sending people off. He's doing all these things. And then she magically falls in love with them. And I think the film for me. Miriam: Wait, y you're saying you think that Darcy is a villain in this movie? No. Kate: No, I think in the movie, I think the movie for me did a better job of explaining. Again, I listen, I read the book a really long time ago. And so that's why I did Miriam: He Kate: try and go in with it, like separating out, you know, sometimes you like a movie and you don't like the book. Sometimes you like the book and you don't like the movie. And I think I enjoyed this movie more than the book. Leslye: First of all, when I saw this movie, I saw it in the theater. I was so taken with it. I thought it was so cool what you're saying, and what both of you are saying that the filmmaking, I think, elevated the quote Jane Austen-ness of it, only because Jane Austen is like a brand in the twenty first century. it has become sort of a parody of itself. but 20 years ago, when I saw it, I was so taken with it, both the filmmaking and the storyline. Watching it 20 years later and not really have thought about Pride and Prejudice in a long time, I was a little bit like. Sorry, what's Darcy's deal? I thought Matthew Macfadyen did such a good job of giving him like a really good three dimension. you Kate: Yeah, agreed. Yeah. Leslye: I found him to be so compelling when I was younger. And now at like forty-five, I'm like, what's this guy's problem exactly? Like he's rich, Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: what's he shy? Like, is that the issue? Like, is he just as confined as she is by his social it just it's kind of muddled in my opinion in the in this movie. I think Colin Firth is better, to be quite honest. Than Matthew Macfadyen, but I think in this movie, Matthew Macfadyen might be the best performance for me. And so that sold him a little bit. 100%. 100% Miriam: Y you think he's the best performance. That's interesting. Leslye: he's the best performance in this movie. When they're in the rain and they're underneath the gazebo I was astonished by him in that scene. I Miriam: Love it. Mm-hmm. Leslye: was like, you are. That was where I I drank the Darcy Kool-Aid. I was like, damn, he's just so shitty to her and then she's like shitty Miriam: Mm-hmm. Leslye: to back to him and he's like what? Like he's Kate: Yeah, really. Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: like, sorry? Miriam: I do think that they have real chemistry, Keira Knightley and him. I mean, yeah, getting so Leslye: Yes, I agree. I agree. Kate: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Miriam: close, not kissing, that's what chemistry means on screen when you're looking at them and you're totally sucked into the idea that these two people are obsessed with each other, but they can't admit it. It's great. I think Keira Knightley is amazing in it. I really love Leslye: Really? Miriam: her performance. compared to like a Jennifer Ely who's doing it like textbook perfect, I just felt Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: like her performance has a little bit more energy. She feels a little bit younger. She feels almost like a little bit more just like I'm a teen trying to have fun. And it's not like as serious as other people play it. So I thought her energy was great and I love it in it. I know you didn't like the sisters, Leslye I know you don't like those Yeah, but and again I think Br she is good. But I think Leslye: I just think they're kind of like whatever. You know. Rosamond Pike is great. Rosamond Pike is great. She understood the assignment. Yeah. Kate: Yeah. Miriam: I think Brenda Blethyn really good in it. I really, really love her performance. And Donald Sutherland is I just love him. I think he's so good. Yeah. Leslye: He would be the second best performance in the movie for me. I was like, you are so good. So basically the men were really good and then all the women were trash. Miriam: I disagree, disagree. I do want to give it to Tom Hollander, 'cause he's also really good as Mr. Collins Yeah. And he's amazing. Leslye: he's a third, third best performance in the movie. Third best performance. He's so good. He's so excellent. There was one shot where he, my God, it's something like I can't remember where they are, but it like cuts to the three men. And and his performance is per is that where they're at Rosings Park? Miriam: Yes, yes, when they're at Rosings. Yeah, when they're at with Judy Dench and they're standing in front of this incredible fresco and it's like you see the three men kind of like very composed and he just looks so ridiculous. Leslye: And there's this s somebody saying something and he makes this voice like, What the fuck? Like it's so good. It's like this tiny little moment that he knows how to make work. please, please. Miriam: his first dinner with the family where he said, I love these excellently boiled potatoes. That's a famous line for a reason. It's so excellent. And his whole proposal, Kate: That is good. Miriam: the whole proposal scene where Collins Leslye: yeah. Miriam: proposes to Keira Knightley. again, I think that the language is so witty and great where he's like he's like, I know that you have to reject me. as you know, as done by upstanding females. And she's like, Sir, I am not the sort of female who would play with a Leslye: Ha ha ha. Miriam: man. Like the the language in it is so amazing. Like the it's Leslye: I do love that she rejects both these marriage proposals And I again my my first and third favorite performances in the movie. that both of them are like, what? Like they just can't like this is the part, Kate, where I I I like half agree with you, right? Like there's parts of it that I was very taken with when I was like a teenager, early twenties, and then there was that I just am not now. I kind of find a bit cringe. But there are certain things that just tickle me. Like I don't think it's like her waiting for a man. I think it's so funny that she's this woman and everybody is like, the second I look at you, you should be happy that I'm asking you to marry me. And she turns down both these guys for different Miriam: Mm-hmm. Leslye: reasons. And both of them are like, we cannot comprehend that you just did that. we cannot compute. And I have to say like that is amusing to me. They Miriam: I mean, I think what you wanna say, Leslye is what are men to rocks and mountains? Also one of my favorite lines. Kate: Mm-hmm. Leslye: Miriam really knows this movie. Like Miriam: I love Kate: I know. Miriam: like I am personally offended. I am very upset. Well, I mean, Leslye: I know it's really dark. I I feel like you guys are mad. Kate: I feel like I I I think Miriam: again, we've fought we've had these fights before. Our friendship will survive, but I am personally offended. Yes. Kate: That this isn't one of my favorite to be clear, I did say that I liked a lot of parts of this movie. I don't know you missed that part at the beginning, but I was like, there are witty There's great, Miriam: Yeah but I could tell you didn't. I want you to love it. Can't you just love it for me? Kate: No, I know you do I Miriam: Can't you tell me one performance you liked or one scene you liked, please? What about Kate? What about when he does the hand flex? Kate: I no, I really liked the Miriam: What about when you know Leslye: I like the hand flex Kate: See, I think I don't know. I think maybe because and here's where I can really give credit where credit is due. So many of these things are reused in every romance, every rom-com you've seen since right? taking just Pride and Prejudice, the source material, right? It is regurgitated and reused and in in everything in current timeline. So the whole the hand flexing, it's in every Everything, right? Where you're supposed to swoon. Miriam: No, I don't that was something that he just did on the day, Kate, that was not in the source material. Kate: Okay, but I'm telling you it happens in other movies and books. I think the things that have grown from this like I loved Bridget Jones' Diary and that's based on the source material. Like what you were saying, Miriam, about the interior life of women, the like, okay, let's go buy ribbons and get ribbons for the ball and all of that that people love. I'm just like, okay. That's nice. I know. Miriam: Kate, they had nothing else to do. Leslye: So Kate. I think this is what I was saying about Jane Austen being a brand, And I think you said it more eloquently than I did. But I'm sorry, it's so funny to me. It's so funny to me because I think, again, there are two different things going on. You're like, I hate ribbons, right? Kate: Yeah. Leslye: But then you're also like, I hate this dynamic. But then you're also like, we're not criticizing you, we're just trying to figure it out. Like, we're just Kate: Huh. Miriam: Ha ha. Leslye: trying to like parse this out here because you're like, I like Bridget Jones's diary. And I'm like, but didn't you just say that you hated Here are my Kate: I'm a complicated person. Leslye: questions. Here are my questions, okay? Cause I I know do you like Clueless Kate: Anyway, we have twenty minutes. I really think a lot of it is the time period. That's what I'm trying to explain. Leslye: And you like Heated Rivalry. Miriam: Yeah, yeah. Kate: Yeah. Miriam: Kate, you're reminding me of someone who's like, I don't like watching any foreign films. Like to you're like, when you're like I just don't like watching any movies that take place like before 1900, you know? Like I Leslye: It is kind of wild. Miriam: it is it's like my nephews. Like if I'm like, hey, do you guys Kate: Ha ha ha. Miriam: want they're like, history? like, Kate: Okay, if this was a story about two people who maybe worked at the house, maybe I would find that more interesting than the plight of like middle class to upper class. Does that make sense? I think that's one there's one thing. I don't enjoy aristocracy based storylines. And you can maybe that's it also like saying I don't like foreign films, but I tend to not find things about the aristocracy entertaining. Leslye: Are they aristocracy, Miriam: They're not aristocracy. Leslye: Miriam? Miriam: They're they are middle class. Kate: just rich Yeah, but Miriam: that's Kate: Mr. Darcy is, isn't he? Miriam: Mr. his aunt is, but he is not. Kate: I thought he was too. Miriam: No, he that's why he's just a mister, not a Lord. And and I think that also speaks Kate: Well, Miriam Miriam: more to Jane Austen. she was very interested in class. I think that is really a big part of it. Kate: I kn I yeah. I don't it's I don't know how to explain it because I do think that there are other instances like this, like you're gonna hate me even more, but like I don't like Downton Abbey. And it's not because I can't Miriam: Well, that's insane. Kate: I think it's sort of similar to this I think when you talk about why people love Pride and Prejudice so much, why they love Leslye: Right. Kate: this movie so much, is that it gives them sort of that warm feeling. They get that romantic historical fiction aspect out of it. That people find comfort in, and that is not something that resonates with me Leslye: I did think that Joe Wright did a better job at conveying class in this movie. Cause I think sometimes like the Downton Abbeys of it all, I don't like Downton Abbey either. Sorry, Miriam, but I Miriam: You guys are like, Kate: no. Miriam: why are we friends? Leslye: I don't like it. I think it's I think it's Miriam: I just wanna say to the audience that this is a very important point that listen, your friends can't be everything to you. Kate: Ha ha ha. Miriam: Ha. Leslye: here's the thing. I thought that this movie did, and I still think this, it does a good job of class. I like that she. is wearing like the same three dresses the whole movie. Like they're not well washed. Like when she walks in from walking to what's Bangsley's? Miriam: Mm-hmm. Can I do it? her dress is six inches deep in mud. She looks positively medieval. Also, shout out to the actress that plays Caroline Bingley She's so great. She's so good. And she wears one hat that is to Leslye: Yeah, Kelly Riley. Yeah, Kelly Riley. Yeah. Kate: she was great. She was great. Yeah. She's so good. Yeah. Yeah. Miriam: die for. It's so good. right. Leslye: Yeah, she's on Yellowstone now. I just love that you know this movie by heart, Miriam, because it's really Miriam: By heart. gosh. Kate: Ha ha ha. Leslye: sweet that you do, I feel like both of us are letting you down right now. Miriam: You can't you're letting me down, but you can't be everything to me. I have other friends that luckily that yeah, and this is why I had to get the other friends because I needed at least one friend who will watch period pieces with me. Kate: Here's what I would say. If you if we were to diversify. don't Leslye: You do? How dare you? Kate: love period pieces in general. That's not my favorite Miriam: Yeah, no shit. Kate: genre. genres. A lot of there's a lot of things that have Miriam: That's a lot of movies. Kate: but if we were For the weekend. And everyone wanted to watch a movie and you put on this movie, I wouldn't complain about it. I think when people think about loving Pride and Prejudice, the movie, they think about getting swept away in the visuals and the story Miriam: Mm. Kate: and all that, It's not something that sweeps me off my feet. Leslye: So I'm saying. Miriam: I think Kate is basically Mary Bennett, okay? let me throw another line at you guys. Yeah, Kate is Mary Bennett. She said, I think a ball is a perfectly irrational way to gain new acquaintances. It would be better if conversation Kate: I mean Miriam: instead of dancing were the order of the day. That's Kate. Kate's basically like, fuck period pieces. Let's all like have like a nice little conversation rather than like dancing and watching sumptuous cinematography. Right? Yeah, of course. Leslye: Wait, Miriam, do you have quotes written down for this movie? Miriam: But I do know most of the lines by heart. Kate: Yeah. Leslye: Often do you watch this movie? Miriam: I would say like once every six months, just to get me through. I love this movie. my god, first of all, first of all, Leslye Leslye: What? Kate: See, that's what I mean. It's a comfort. I think it's a comfort to a lot of people. Yeah. Miriam: you're judging me? For watching a movie on repeat? When we it's Pride and Prejudice. Yes. Leslye: No, no, no, no. I'm just surprised that it's Pride and Prejudice. No, I'm I feel like I'm learning about you. No, no, no. I feel like I'm learning more about you, which is what friendship is all about. Miriam: That is what friend it's just so Kate: Yeah. Miriam: nice that we're still learning. Yeah, that Leslye: But si like every six months I watch Zodiac, you know, so Kate: Go boy. Miriam: that is I mean, okay, Kate, what movie are you watching every six months? I feel like this tells a lot about us. I'm watching Pride and Prejudice. Leslye's watching Zodiac. What are you watching? Once a year. Leslye: Or once a year, if not every six months, Kate: I don't know if I have a movie I watch Leslye: yeah. Kate: once a year. Miriam: this movie. Yeah. Leslye: The Big Lebowski Kate: I did used to watch that often. Leslye: that was like when I was like deeply in love with you forever. I already liked you, but then you were like, Miriam: yeah. That was a Kate movie. Yeah. Kate: Ha ha ha. Leslye: watched it by myself and I was like, What the fuck is this movie? And then we watched it together and Kate: Yeah. Leslye: watching it a second time, I was like, This is brilliant. Kate: Yeah. Miriam: And I love when you say Leslye it became my whole personality because Big Kate: Yeah. Miriam: Lebowski was your whole personality, basically Leslye: Yeah. Yeah. Kate: Yeah. Miriam: 11th grade. Yes, yes, totally. But I do want Leslye: Yeah, until until the Royal Tenenbaums came out, that was my whole personality. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kate: Yeah, yeah, then you traded. You traded, yeah. Miriam: to just say that this movie is also very funny. Come on, there's a lot of funny scenes and lines. Kate: Miriam, did you miss the whole part where I said all the things I like about this movie? And part of it is the witty there's witty dialogue. I don't know what else you want me to say. Miriam: Maybe. I I do I think I was I was blind with rage from moment one, but I do love the I love Kate: i think you're telling me I went into it with like preconceived notions, but you have come here today. You have are you are the judge, the jury, and the executioner Miriam: Fair, fair fair. Kate: before you've been seen the evidence. Miriam: So true. one of my the funniest moments to me is when all of the Bennett's go to see Jane at Netherfield and they all come in and then the butler says, Miss Bennett, Miss Bennett, Miss Bennett, and Miss Bennett. Kate: yeah, that was good. Yeah. Miriam: supposed to receive all the Bennetts in the county. and then they all sit down at the same time and they all kind of like have the like, huh? there are just so many funny, cute moments. Leslye: Part I love the part when Kelly Riley is like, Elizabeth, let's take a walk about the room. And then they're just walking. And Miriam: yes, yeah. Leslye: I was like, these people have nothing to do. Like, this is a society Miriam: They have nothing to do. Leslye: where nothing is happening. And I yeah. Miriam: It's ribbons and walking around the room. I also think it's like very funny when she's at Mr. Darcy's house and they're like, Don't worry, he won't come. And then he shows up and she's like, my god, this is so embarrassing. Like, you know, he catches her in the act. it's really fun. Leslye: yeah. I like when she's at Rosing Parks and she's I think she's at the Collins's place and he just comes in. He just comes in and he's like, he's like, hi. And she's like, and then Miriam: Mm-hmm. Yeah, he just shows up. Leslye: he's like, how are you? You know. I just feel like I just have Miriam: He's like, I'm embarrassed, I'm gonna leave. Leslye: fun, Kate, kind of trying to think of, how to translate it. Like this is the equivalent of him sending a text and then being like, why did I send that? And like, you know, Miriam: Ha ha. Leslye: like Kate: Totally. And I do think that this movie made me understand the charm of Mr. Darcy. And I find Awkward very charming. And I think that he Miriam: They're so awkward. Kate: at first. He's just kind of a dick, but then you sort of see it unravel, the layers unravel, and he becomes just like an awkward dude. And that's my kind of guy. So I was more on board with it than than than you would have thought. Leslye: That's true. That's true. Miriam: I also I I wondered too, and I know where he does play really well, because it's like, is he awkward or does he like, I don't wanna dance? I feel like she was Leslye: No, he's pretty awkward. Yeah. Kate: No, I think he's I think he's awkward. He's just like a shy, awkward dude and it comes off as very like gruff or standoffish. Yeah. Miriam: Right. Very full of pride. I did also really Leslye: Mm. Miriam: like too when Keira Knightley has to play the piano and she's so bad. Like to me, I'm like, that's fun. Like I like Kate: Yeah. Leslye: Love. Love. Miriam: she's not being, you know, humble. She's like, No, I'm seriously really bad at this. second screen facts? Did you guys know that Rosmond Pike and Simon Woods, who plays Bingley, dated in real life? They dated. They Leslye: Adorable. Miriam: dated when they went to Oxford, then they split up, but they were friends, He's also so cute in it. I absolutely I love that guy's look. Like he just has a very good look. and then Leslye: Yes, he's perfect. Yeah. The casting is very good. He's like an Miriam: The casting is excellent. Leslye: I loved that he was like a handsome like nerd, where you could Miriam: Yes. Leslye: totally see that other women like in London or wherever it is that people are going would look at him and be like, He's kinda weird looking. You know, like he's he's really rich, but you know. Miriam: Leslye also said Keira Knightley was weird looking. I was like, she's so beautiful. Her Kate: Yeah. Leslye: She is. Miriam: eyebrows in this are amazing. And I feel like I love her eyebrows in it. Leslye: Okay. Miriam: It's really good. like wig work in this movie is so good. The hair, everybody's hair looks kind of messed up, which I really also appreciate for a period piece. Leslye: Yeah. Miriam: Like I think that's the other thing about why I like this movie is it is a period piece, but it's done in such a different way. Like everybody's dress is not perfect. Like there's a lot of messiness Kate: Yeah, I appreciate that. Miriam: to it, which really makes it feel like, I could relate to this. And I think that's another reason why people love this iteration of Pride and Prejudice Kate: I think that of all of the versions of Pride and Prejudice have come across in my life, it's the one I enjoyed the most. Miriam, take that as a win where you get Miriam: Yeah. Kate: one. I just, you know, it's just not gonna be my favorite thing. I think that that's okay. Leslye: never get over I will just we'll never get over Kate not liking a a specific time period. I just I love this. I didn't know Miriam: I know. Kate: Yeah. Leslye: this about her. We're learning new things here on the podcast. Kate: Well now I'm kind of like I like challenge accepted to myself. Like, is there something during this time period that I Miriam: Yeah. Kate: enjoy? I should explore more. Miriam: I know, I think it's a lot to just write off an entire category. did you at like Judy Dench? Leslye: I wanna say like Judy Dench is like that person that you put in a movie where Miriam: yeah. Leslye: you're like, do we wanna f*ing get this party started? Like I feel like I feel like Miriam: Shit. Leslye: putting Judy Dench in a movie is like if you're a DJ being like, we Miriam: Ha ha ha. Leslye: found love in a hopeless place Kate: Ha ha ha. Miriam: Ha ha ha Leslye: and everyone's like, Judy Dench, yeah. It's like Miriam: And I do love when Judy Dench her line where she's basically like, if I had ever learned to play piano, I'd be amazing. If my if Leslye: Ha ha ha! I loved that too! I loved that too! Miriam: my daughter ever tried, also amazing. Like she's Leslye: Mm. Miriam: just so pompous. It's so great. You have a very small Leslye: It's so great. Miriam: garden. I mean, that is the that's the Jane Austen of it when when she gets to their house and Judy Dench's line where she's like, You have a very small garden. And your family is ridiculous, like it's so good. So good. Kate: So I just love the concept that Judy Dench is to acting, what Rihanna is to dance floors. like you know, like. Leslye: Yes, yes, Miriam: Yeah. Leslye: Am I wrong? She comes in and everybody's like, oh yeah! I start twerking. Miriam: I know. Leslye: Everyone's like, Don't do that. Don't do that. Miriam: Judy Dench would think of Kate not liking period pieces. It's only like ninety percent of what she does. Kate: Ha ha ha Leslye: I think Judy Dench would be into it. Genuinely, I think she but I think she'd be into it. I do. Cause I read her book about Shakespeare and she is Miriam: Hm. Leslye: really funny in terms of how she talks about acting in her life. She's really, very humble and kind of like, I hated doing Merchant of Venice. That play sucks, you know. so I think if Kate were like Judy Dench. Jane Austen is trash. Judy Dench would probably be like, You know what? You're right. Miriam: I disagree. I don't think she would say that. I don't think she would say that at all. Kate: Clarification. I don't think she's trash. Miriam: Kate, you not liking Jane Austen. Leslye: She doesn't like Jane Kate: be clear here, I Miriam: is equivalent to you not liking Shakespeare to me. Kate's like I hate Shakespeare. Kate: I do like Shakespeare. I just know. I do like Shakespeare. Miriam: Kate's like I hate Kate: I was an English major, I read a lot of Shakespeare. Leslye: Yeah, yeah. Miriam: I know Kate: this is like my home ground. I worked at a library. Leslye: I mean, it doesn't make any sense. Kate: guys. Leslye: it's like an astronaut being like, I really love gravity. What can I say? Like you're like, haven't you been studying your whole life for this? all Miriam: So Kate, final verdict, Kate. You kinda liked it. And then Kate: Yeah. No. Leslye: You liked it for our sake, so we could all stay friends. Miriam: You're like, this is okay. Leslye: And Kate: I did it. Listen, first of all, I wouldn't do that. I would just straight up tell you two the truth and you would know that because I'm a terrible Leslye: That's true. That's true. Miriam: I know. That's true. Kate: liar and I just blurt out the truth whenever I talk. I do think that there are lots of great qualities to this. I thought it was a successful version of it. The cinematography was really wonderful and added a lot to it, And Judy Dunch is a badass. So that's my final take on it. I hope you can Leslye: Cheers. Miriam: Yeah, she is. She Kate: still be my friend, Miriam, Miriam: we're still friends. We're still friends. Kate: phew Leslye: Thanks for joining us this week on How Have You Not Seen This? I'm Leslye Miriam: Miriam. Kate: And I'm Kate. Leslye: Tell us what movie we should watch at howhaveyounotseenthis.com. You can subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and follow us on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok at H-H-Y-N-S T Pod. Tune in next time for another crime against cinema. And remember, friends are not friends unless they fight about movies. I feel like Kate's Kate: Okay. Leslye: reaction to Pride and Prejudice is like Aretha Franklin's reaction to Taylor Swift. Have you seen that Miriam: Nice! Leslye: meme Beautiful gowns, beautiful gowns. she's just like, it is not for me, and I am not going to tear this down. Just because you guys want me to.