Latest / Unshaken & Unafraid with Joe Pags / Sage Steele on Defying ESPN, Caitlin Clark and the Fight to Protect Women’s Sports

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Sage Steele on Defying ESPN, Caitlin Clark and the Fight to Protect Women’s Sports · Unshaken & Unafraid with Joe Pags

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: But I never got a call. I still haven't, really,
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: from any of those networks. People get uncomfortable when employees
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden find their voice and are no
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: longer afraid to speak up, even if it's in a kind,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: professional way, which is what I always tried to do,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: feeling in my heart that I had to sue ESPN
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: and Disney. That other networks are like, oh my gosh,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: oh my gosh, oh my gosh. Don't force us to
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: put shots in our bodies anymore and there won't be lawsuits.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: You watched her on ESPN. She dared take a stand
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: when it came to somebody telling her what she can
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: and can't put into her body to keep a job.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: She's out there in the fray, whether it's news, culture,
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: certainly sports. Of course, we're talking about the one and
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: the only Sage Steele. Sage, how are you? Good to
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: see you.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad to see you again, Joe. Thanks for
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: having me.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: It's an absolute pleasure. You were so nice to me
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: a long time ago. When they were coming down on
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: you like a ton of bricks, you and I connected
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: on X. And I just loved your story because you
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: could easily have given in, kept that cushy job, not
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: really made a noise. But then again, you're giving up
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: your autonomy. You're giving up your privacy. You're giving up
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: your life outside of being inside of a studio. When
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: you made that decision, how scary was that? And let's
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: fast forward to today where you're dominating in podcasts and
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: so much more.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh. Well, thank you for using the word dominating.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: It doesn't feel that way. You do it so good. But, hey,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: fake it till you make it, right? That's the word, scary.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: It was so scary in every way because all I
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: had ever done was work for people, which I loved.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: I really prided myself on being a good employee, a
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: good teammate. I loved that. I thrived in that environment.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: That's the sports environment, not just because it was at ESPN,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: but you're working together on something. Yeah. And then you
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: stand up to your company and you sue them and
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: then you settle and then you say, what do I
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: do now? And I was like, okay, I'll go back
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: to work for somebody else. And then I just started thinking,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: they'll have similar rules, especially at the traditional mainstream media companies.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: There's really no difference between any of them. And I
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: actually went on, I can't remember if we talked about
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: this last time, I went on Bill Maher's podcast on
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Club Random. And he was the one twice during that
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: hour and a half conversation with him. He was like,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: you didn't have your own show. You need to do
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: it with me. And I was like, okay, he's high.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Cause he's high.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like, he'll never remember this. Well, he
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: said it again. And then we got off the air
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: and he's like, no, I'm serious. And since he was
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: starting a podcast network at the time, club random, um,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: he was like, I'm serious. And shortly thereafter, I was
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: his first hire. Um, I, I'm so grateful for him. He,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Bill Maher, talk about diversity of thought, right? I mean,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: and he's such a leader in so many ways that
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: we never dreamt of with Bill Maher today, just common sense, right?
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: He gave me my start when it was not as
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: cool to do that with somebody who thought as differently
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: as the two of us do. And so then I
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: went on my own, though. I just really wanted to
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: try it on my own after about eight or nine months.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, I'll just, I'll eventually, you know,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: have someone else leading the way and footing the bill, basically. Yeah. No,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: that didn't happen. And I had some opportunities, but because
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: I had to survive on my own Joe for a
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: few months, five, six months and support myself in this
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: endeavor financially. And then someone came along and then they
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: want to take a percentage, right? I'm like, no, I
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: think I can do this. And I'm not sure, but
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: I'm going to try it. And even if I fail,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: at least I know, at least I will have learned. Well,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: guess what? I've continued to do it. The Sage Steele
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: show is now two and a half years in. And
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: I still, but I am still clueless about the space
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: and all the algorithms and thumbnails and crap that I
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: don't want to care about. Fortunately, I have an incredible
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: husband who's got an awesome business CEO background who now
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: is like, you go, go do your left brain activities.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: I'll take care of this. And I'm just so grateful
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: for this crazy journey.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: For those who don't know, who are watching and listening
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: many times, the rev share is 50, 50. So you
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: go in and you work your ass off, you do
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: the podcast, you're bringing in top A-list guests, and somebody
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: else gets half the money for the advertising because they're
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: the ones doing that, yet you're bringing the product. So
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: doing it on your own is not easy, but it
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: certainly is more beneficial because not only are you collecting
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: more of the revenue, obviously, but you're also deciding who
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: it is that's going to sponsor the show, who it
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: is that you're going to sit down and talk to.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: You can say no to somebody and not worry about it.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: But I want to go backward just for a second.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: When you left ESPN... Could you have been hireable by NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN?
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Or were you in a way blacklisted because you dared say,
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to let you keep putting shots in
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: my arm so I can have a job. You know
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: what I mean?
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, I was hireable. I did not have any non-compete
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: that I signed whatsoever. But I never got a call.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: I still haven't really from any of those networks. I
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: do a lot of, I'll come on and give my opinion.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: They asked me to come on. Fox News all the
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: time to give my opinion. Going on Hannity Tonight, Jesse Waters,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: usually one of the two, if not both of them each,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: you know, once a week, Laura. And I'm so grateful
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: to those people who have become friends because they've encouraged
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: me to continue to get out there and gave your opinion.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Here's the thing. As most of you probably know, when
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: you're a journalist, like a true journalist, the story is
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: not about you. You don't give your opinion. Difference between
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: a journalist and an analyst. I was a journalist. And
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: my opinion didn't matter. My opinion was to ask the question.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: So it felt very uncomfortable to do that, to give
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: my opinion on whether it's sports or politics. And so
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: it's just been really, I'm grateful to Fox News for
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: always having me on. It's been fun. And obviously it's
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: helped with the growth of my show. But yeah, I
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: never got that call. I do believe there's a lot
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: of people who, I mean, My resume speaks for itself
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: at 30 years and the last 17 at ESPN. Like
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: I know how to host shows and moderate and all
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: those things. And I love it. So I don't think
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: it was ever, I was told it was never a
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: question of my talent or skillset. People get uncomfortable when
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: employees all of a sudden find their voice and are
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: no longer afraid to speak up, even if it's in
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: a kind professional way, which is what I always tried
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: to do. And I think that because I ended up
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: feeling in my heart that I had to sue ESPN
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: and Disney, that other networks are like, oh, my gosh, oh,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: my gosh, oh, my gosh. Don't force us to put
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: shots in our bodies anymore, and there won't be lawsuits, really.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: Exactly. No, it's a great point. It's Sage Steele. Go
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: and find her on all the social media, at Sage Steele.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: Go check out her YouTube. She's way behind me. Actually,
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: she's very close on YouTube with me. But go check
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: out her show. It's unbelievable. I love it. I watch
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: it all the time. I want to talk a little
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: bit more about ESPN, but not necessarily about you and ESPN,
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: if that makes sense. Rich Eisen right now is doing
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: something called This Was Sports Center, or That Was Sports Center,
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: and where he's sitting down with Dan Patrick, and he's
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: sitting down, well, hopefully he'll sit down with you, but
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: he's sitting down with many different people. No, okay, we
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: can talk about that.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: And I love him, I respect him, but I think
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: that they'd like to pretend like I'm not in any
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: of the archives at all. I think they're going to
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: pretend like I'm not.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: Well, he works for Disney again, so I think he
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: would have, when he was in an entity that worked
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: for ESPN and Disney, but You're probably right. But he's
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: sitting down with Berman and all these other people. And
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: what it all reminds me of, I started in television
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: news in 1994. I was a TV news anchor for
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: a long time. I won a bunch of awards for journalism.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: So I get the difference between being an editorialist and
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: a journalist. But when I saw the SportsCenter folks doing
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: what they were doing, it was cutting edge. It was amazing.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: It was not political whatsoever. It was irreverent. It was funny.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: You were unbelievable on there. But, of course, you're the
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: next generation now. But watching him break down what was
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: happening with Dan Patrick and Keith Olbermann before he went
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: nuts and Chris Berman and all these people, it really
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: took me back to what that used to be. Why
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: does a company like ESPN or ABC or Disney, why
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: do they decide we're not going to keep on doing
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: what's working? Let's get culturally appropriate. Let's talk about stuff
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: that we want to change somebody's thought process on an
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: issue like transgenderism that has nothing to do with sports.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: Why didn't they just ride that train, man? It was awesome.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It breaks my heart, to be honest with you,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: because it was just so unnecessary. But it all depends
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: on your leadership. And when the turn really began, the leader,
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: the president of ESPN was a man by the name
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: of John Skipper, who did a lot of good things,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: but he had a very unceremonial exit. It was a
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: big deal. And he very much supports all those woke agendas.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: He did at the time, and then you start to
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: see that in the coverage. He And many others. I mean,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: when you're the leader, obviously your ideas are passed along
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: to others beneath you. Even if they don't agree, they're
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: going to go along with it. And the type of programming,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: the type of contracts that they signed you in some
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: broadcast race deals were really interesting at that time. And
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: you have to remember, above him, Disney CEO Bob Iger
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: also falls in line very much on the left. At
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: one point, he was going to run for president in 2020.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: I forgot about that. Yeah. So, I mean, if that's
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: your leadership, then that kind of explains it. To me,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: the turning point was the 2016 election when Donald Trump
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: beat Hillary Clinton. Like that was the turning point where
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: everybody melted down and the mandate that none of us
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: were allowed to go on social media and talk politics
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: was blown out of the water that night that he
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: won when our executives began tweeting about how terrible it
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: is that Trump won. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: what's happening? And leadership allowed it. Breaks my heart because
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: to your point, I mean, if it ain't broke, don't
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: fix it. I liken that a little bit to what
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Bud Light said. did and how they screwed that up
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: so badly with Dylan Mulvaney, like just use your brain
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: and your marketing executives, the marketing intern, if they'd done
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: a little bit of homework, could have figured out pretty
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: clearly and easily that putting a man who identifies as
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: a woman wearing a sports bra and a bunch of
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: makeup is probably not the best person to appeal to
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: your average beer drinker. Like the fact that they allow that.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, so it's these boneheaded decisions that hurt Really
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: good companies.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Like what Bud Light had established for half a century
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: and ESPN. When you had the people that you named, yes,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: Keith Olbermann, who was awesome until he wasn't.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: But everybody else, Dan Patrick and Robin Roberts and all
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: of these people who were icons, the people that I watched,
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: my guy, my best friend, the man that I miss
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: to this day, Stuart Scott.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: They threw it all away. And it's like sometimes you
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: just get a little bit too cute and just stay
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: in your damn lane. And I always used to say
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: to my bosses, like, what are we doing over here?
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: What are we doing? People weren't coming to us to
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: hear our opinion on Black Lives Matter or anything. anything,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: anything political. If they want politics, there's a plethora of
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: network stations, mainstream media are now streaming that they can
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: go to to get that. And we did this, we,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: not we, they did this to themselves. I do think
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: that it's turned a little bit. I know what you think, Joe.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: I think it's turned a little bit recently and you
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: saw Pat McAfee. Yeah, I don't either. I just saw
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: it online. You saw Pat McAfee recently. walking out of
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: the tunnel at like a high school Olympic type style game.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it was, competition in Ohio. Pat
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: McAfee walking out of the tunnel with Donald Trump. So
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: things are changing.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: I didn't see that.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was, and I'm sitting there and I'm watching
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: a bunch of my colleagues who were there too. And
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: I'm laughing, cracking up, like going, oh my, in a
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: way I'm annoyed. Cause I'm like, see, see guys, it's
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: not that hard. There's all those years when they would
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: go to the white house with Barack Obama and to
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: the brackets for.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: The NCAA tournament.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Like, that was great. And it was eight years straight.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: And Andy Katz, who's awesome, he would go. And the
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: second Trump got in office, we're going to stop it.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: The point is, like, half of your audience at ESPN
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: is always going to hate Trump or love Trump or
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: hate Obama or love Obama. So just don't do any
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: of it.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: Let's be honest. A lot of what comes out of
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Hollywood these days makes a mockery of America. Somehow, we're
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: the bad guys. They make a mockery of our history,
• 12:14
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• 12:18
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• 12:23
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• 12:27
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• 12:32
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• 12:35
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• 12:38
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• 12:41
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• 12:44
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• 12:47
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• 12:53
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• 12:57
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• 12:59
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• 13:27
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• 13:31
  Speaker 2: builds something worth passing on. Listen, I didn't vote for
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Barack Obama. You're such a good point. Let me just
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: say this. I didn't like Barack Obama as a president.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: I agreed with three things that he did. And I
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: talk about it all the time. Everything else, I didn't
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: like that he did it. I thought it was great
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: that he did the brackets. As a conservative guy, I
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: was like, the president should go there and should do brackets.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: And ESPN is for all, all for one, one for all.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Like Michael Jordan said, or even Republicans buy sneakers. So
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know why they made that shift. But to
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: finish on the old SportsCenter stuff, Dan Patrick, when he
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: was being interviewed by Eisen, said, we were boy band famous.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: And he didn't expect it. And when you've got something
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: going that good, Do you think that management starts to
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: feel guilty or something about the success? Why would you
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: touch it? Leave them alone. ESPN was nothing before they
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: hit something that was different and irreverent. I mean, they
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: put CNN Sports out of business because they were so
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: good early on. What do you think that is? Does
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: management hate its own success?
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: I know exactly what it was. The executives in charge
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: of what I'm about to say, the one in particular,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: is no longer there, fortunately. But he had a lot
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: of power and he was able to do what he wanted,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: which was to keep all the talent in their place.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Make sure their head didn't get too big. Make sure
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: that they didn't believe that they were bigger than the
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: four letters. And I saw the turn once and for
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: all permanently after Stuart Scott died. They knew they couldn't
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: touch Stu and for many reasons, but they knew they couldn't.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: And once he left, once he died, Everything changed. They
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: were waiting. Because along the way, they had let Dan
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Patrick go. Dan Patrick, at the end, wanted to go.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: But you can certainly make things more difficult for them
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: to decide to leave, right? Depending on what you offer
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: them and how you treat them every single day. How
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: they treated Linda Cohn along the way. And she's off
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: doing her own thing as well now. But my goodness,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: there were so many things. You saw Susie Colburn in
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: the news recently. Other people besides the biggest, biggest, biggest names,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: although Linda's on that list too. It was ego. And
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: it was like, wait a minute, these guys and gals,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: but usually these guys on TV, they're not bigger than us.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: Who do they think they are? When in essence, ride them,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: use them, use their name and their talent and their
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: skill to bring more eyeballs to your entire network. So
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: this is what happens when you have the wrong people
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: in charge who don't fully understand business, number one, but
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: number two, let their little egos out. get in the
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: way of good business. This is the guy who didn't
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: make the basketball team in high school, had to settle
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: to be a manager and was always mad at the
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: other guys who were taller than him. These are the
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: people I'm talking about who made the decisions, who ruined
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: the network. But I do hope and pray for the
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: sake of sports fans that what I'm seeing is actually true,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: that they're slowly but surely getting back to it. I
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: just know that people like me and you and others
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: will never go back because we have found new ways
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: to get sports that don't involve politics.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: What's interesting, and I don't think this whole thing about ESPN,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: there are really hot stories I don't want to talk
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: to you about. It's Sage Steele, by the way. Go
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: follow her at Sage Steele everywhere. She's amazing. I want
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: to finish with this. Ten years ago, I stopped watching SportsCenter.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: I stopped watching ESPN. I stopped watching the NFL because
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: the NFL was allowing Colin Kaepernick to be an idiot.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: And Colin Kaepernick has his First Amendment right. He could
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: stand outside the stadium and wave a flag and hold
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: a sign. When you're wearing the uniform of a franchise
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: in a corporation that's getting all sorts of tax breaks,
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: you have to follow the rules. You don't do it
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: wearing the uniform. Stop kneeling down. Stop, you know, wearing
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: pigs on your socks, you know, to show that cops
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: are no good. He can have whatever he wants to
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: do with his First Amendment, but when you work at
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: a job, the employer gets to set the rules. They
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: allowed him to get away with that. But what turned
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: me away from SportsCenter, not that you asked, Stan Verrett
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: is a guy that I liked watching a lot. Stan
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: one day, when giving the report about Colin Kaepernick's latest hijinks, said,
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Kaepernick is doing, he's standing up for what my grandfather
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: fought for in World War II. And I sent him
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: an ex. I sent him a Twitter post. I said, Stan,
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: what are you talking about? This guy has nothing to
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: do with your grandfather and his sacrifice. Nothing whatsoever. Your
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: grandfather didn't go to war and put his life on
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: the line and make a great life for his family
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: so that a guy could kneel down, make it $ 14
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: million a year, and complain about the national anthem. That
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: isn't why he did it. And then that was it
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: for me. I shut off ESPN. Came back and called
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: me a couple of names or whatever. He didn't call
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: me like dirty names. He didn't call me foul names,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: but he was very, very sarcastic and that I don't understand.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: And probably because of my skin tone, I didn't understand.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: But for me to say that this sports guy who
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: was rich and had all of his fancy cars and
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: his mansions was somehow the same as your grandfather. And
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: he said, your grandfather wanted a Colin Kaepernick to have
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: this right. Didn't make sense to me. And that was
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: it for me. And I think there were a lot
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: of people like me who said, man, you stopped telling
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: me sports. And you started taking a side on a
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: political issue. And I wanted you just to be quiet
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: and give me the sports. Does that make sense?
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: It does. And I hear this so often from so
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: many people and Stan was like the first person I
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: ever did sports center with. And I used to really,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: really love him. Um, and then you hear or see
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: what people say about you and say, okay, well, I
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: guess there was a season for that friendship and relationship.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: And that was fine.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: It's interesting. They laid him off a few years ago.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: He's one of the last, maybe in 23, I don't know.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: There've been so many rounds of laughs. Um, And then
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: they just hired him back.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: He's back. I didn't know that.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: At ESPN. And it's like, my goodness. Because at the
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: end of the day, when you have people who are
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: choosing to be that divisive on air, as you witnessed
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: and saw and wrote him about.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: And then in public on Twitter. It was so strange.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: On Twitter, it's another level. Yeah, it's ugly. I mean,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: you are choosing to hire people and pay people a
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: lot of money to be divisive. To push people away.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: The race baiting is exhausting. And we're to the point
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: of the boy who cried wolf. Because now all those
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: moments where there might be a hint of racism or
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: something very blatant. Well, now because you create it and
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: everything is the race card, it really ruins everything. So
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know. These are self-inflicted wounds. I'm just so
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: grateful that I was there during the best times. and
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: got to witness greatness from so many people and got
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: to have so many experiences. And I mean, from 2007
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: through 2023, I'd never done, anything for that long in
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: my life, you know? And so I'm just grateful that
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: I got to be there through it all and grow
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: and it didn't end the way I wanted, but I
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: also wouldn't change that either.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Well, Sage, I'm grateful that we all were exposed to
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: who you are and I'm grateful that you and I
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: are friends and just watching you blossom in your own
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: thing It's the best thing that could have happened, even
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: though it seemed like the worst thing that could have
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: happened at the time. It's Sage Steele. Go and follow
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: her everywhere. Let's talk about Caitlin Clark. I need to
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: know if Caitlin Clark is in any way parallel to
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: what Larry Bird faced in the 1970s and 80s. I
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: think probably worse for Caitlin Clark because Larry Bird got
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Magic Johnson to say he was great early on, and
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: others were able to say, no, this guy really can play.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: But in a league that's dominated by one race of people,
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: and generally speaking, one sexual orientation of people, if you're
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: the other race and you're straight, you're already an outcast.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: And the problem is she's really, really freaking good. Is
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: that a good comparison between Bird coming in and Caitlin Clark,
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: which she faces, or is it completely different?
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: No, I think it's really smart. I hadn't thought of
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: it that way. And, you know, such a different time, right? Yeah.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Very different time. And I mean, we weren't that far
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: removed from interracial marriage being legalized. My parents were on
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: the edge of that. They got married in 1971. So
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: you only fast forward less than a decade. And so
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: it was a very different time. But I do think
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: you're right about having magic there. So the Michigan State-Indiana
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: State rivalry continued into the NBA. And to have a
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: black man say, no, no, no, this is my boy,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: and he can ball, that resonated for sure. If Kaitlyn
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Clark weren't white, this would all be completely different.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: She would not be experiencing the things that she is. Yeah,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: even if she were straight and black... I think that
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: it's completely different. But because she was seen as, you know,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: women's basketball hero coming from college, everybody got bitter about it.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, Caitlyn didn't ask
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: for any of this. Caitlyn didn't want this. She loves
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: to ball. She is a menace on the court. And
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: no one can deny the facts of what she brought. Where,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, let's remind people of her greatness, all those
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: people who want to hate on her. Just from a
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: basketball skill level... I mean, she's the all-time leading scorer
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: in NCAA tournament history. Not women's, men's and women's combined.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: All-time leader.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Wow. The ratings that she created, certainly in college hoops,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: record ratings during those women's tournaments because of her and
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: her team. And then it translated into the WNBA, which
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: then translated into what? A new collective bargaining agreement for
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: these women in 2025 that saw salaries increase more than 300%. Finally.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: and for them to no longer have to fly commercial.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: They now have private, like everything has changed. Is it
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: because of one woman? No, but she did certainly, she's
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: the face of it that began to turn the tide
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: to show everybody that, hey, there's a lot of women
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: out there that can play. But to hate the biggest
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: reason behind all the change, that just, again, it screams,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: we were talking about earlier about insecurity and ego and
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: lack thereof. And it's just, it's so sad. And, and,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: and again, for, for a group of people that talk
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: about being discriminated against and the divisiveness and the ugliness
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: and treated differently, the hypocrisy is not lost on me.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: You know, it's so, it's just, it's, it's so sad.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: And just when this league is making progress, you do
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: something so stupid to not even to choose, to choose,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: to not be able to identify yourself. What a woman is.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: It's so dumb.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: They just keep putting their foot in their mouth in
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: every way.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: I want to get into that in earnest in a second.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: And Sage Steele, go and follow her everywhere. Go take
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: her to her podcast, which is truly amazing. She's getting
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: guests that you really want to sit down and see.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: You certainly want to see how Sage interviews them. You're amazing.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: As we're watching it, is it because Magic Johnson, and
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: by the way, he said this white boy can play
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: when they were on some sort of an all high
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: school or all college team before the big rivalry, Indiana
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: State and Michigan State. He literally called back home and said,
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: this boy can play. And that changed everything. Although they
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: were animosity-filled and they hated each other and enemies during
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: the NBA years until they did that commercial together, you
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: needed Magic Johnson, a great player, who was seen by
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: many as the right race and the right whatever, to say, yes,
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: he's really that great. Do we need a WNBA superstar,
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: even a former one, to step up and say, Yeah,
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: Kaitlyn Clark really is that good, and she's good for
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: the league. Do some people who are small-minded about this
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: need somebody to give them the okay?
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Probably.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: But it's dumb. But do you need that?
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's pathetic. It's sad. It would certainly help, but
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: let's not hold our breath. I know that there are
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: a lot of women in the predominantly black league who
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: who support her who do think she's awesome as a
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: player and probably a person too but if you say
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: it then you're a sellout then you're you know bowing
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: down to the white man right bowing down to the
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: right winger like whatever it is i liken that to
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: um just having one coach one coach in the wnba
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: and i know a handful of them who would come
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: out and say we are not excluding anyone We are
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: just celebrating and protecting ours, women, where we have tried.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's 50, what, 53, 54 years now since
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Title IX began and the fight that so many people,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, really, that was their mission is to make
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: sure that there's equality for women. And it's all being
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: thrown out the door. Half of them, half of it
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: by some of the women who were part of that movement,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: whether it's Billie Jean King, who says, no, you're being exclusionary.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: You should absolutely invite women trans women, biological men, or
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Megan Rapinoe, who was only Megan Rapinoe, the soccer star
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: because of title nine, that it was just for women.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: But if one of those coaches would just come out
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: and say, this is nothing against any other community. You know,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: sports isn't about inclusivity. Sports is about competitiveness and made
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: the best. And in this case, woman win, meaning, meaning
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: win the roster spot, win the ball tip, At center,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: at the middle of center court, when, you know, at
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: the beginning of the game, like whatever that is, sports
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: isn't about being inclusive. Anybody can come. And guess what?
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: When it comes to winning, they don't give a crap
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: what color skin you have, what color hair you have,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: or who you sleep with, actually. Just don't be a
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: hypocrite and pick and choose where you want inclusivity.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Are you turning 65 this year? Well, happy birthday. One
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: of the things you get for your birthday, I'm not
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: sure how much of a present it is, is Medicare
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: and the opportunity to look through some questionnaire that you
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: don't really know the answers to. And it gets confusing
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: and you might be on the wrong plan. You've got
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: to get an advisor, somebody who's going to look out
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: for you. The organization I always suggest is Chapter. They
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: do it right every single time. In fact, chapter.org slash PAGS.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Go there right now to find out more about this.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Chapter is going to help you out. They're going to
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: point blank tell you this is wrong, this is a
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: bad plan, it's costing you too much money. Or it
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: might say you're on the right plan, and that's going
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: to save you time and money too. You set up
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: a phone call with them, takes less than 20 minutes,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: and on average, Americans on Medicare are saving $ 1, 100. It's
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: a simple call. Your chapter advisor is going to look
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: at your doctors, your prescriptions, what actually matters to you,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: what you desire in your plan, and they're going to
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: help you out. There are tens of thousands of plans available.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: Make sure you're on the right one. Get with chapter
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: right now. Ask chapter.org slash PAGS. Ask chapter.org slash PAGS
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: right now. Although she and I don't agree on much
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: of anything, Martina Navratilova is much smarter on this than
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Billie Jean King. In that Billie Jean King beat Bobby
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: Riggs when he was like 54, so that doesn't really
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: even count. When you've got Serena and Venus Williams both
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: saying the 200-something seated man smoked us both, that means something.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: When Megan Rapinoe and her team lost to a group
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: of 15 year old boys that means something so what
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: why doesn't the wnba come out and just say something
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: very simple this league is for human beings that are
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: xx why can't they just do that and then it
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: would exclude and it's cancer freedom who's doing it on
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: purpose to make them define a woman and royce white
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: who's doing it to make them define what a woman
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: is why won't they say this league is for women
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: and that means biologically xx that's it done move on.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: It's it's um On principle now, not good principle, where
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: they would feel like they're caving. To what?
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: To protect women? Caving to what? You know what I mean?
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: Caving to MAGA. Caving to the right, because this has
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: turned into such a political issue when it's not. It's
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: a common sense issue. And what was it? Around election
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: time two years ago, and I think the numbers probably
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: stand today, I are on the same side with this issue,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: which is the issue of common sense. Hashtag follow the science.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Remember a couple of years ago? Oh, yeah. This is
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: the most basic thing. This is the least controversial thing.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: One of the few issues in the history of mankind
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: that has never been debated. Men are men. Women are women.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: You can't change. You can cut some things off. You
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: can add some lipstick, and you can change your clothes,
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: and you can walk effeminately. You can do all those things.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: And you can change your name. But you still are
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: the sex that you were when you were born. I
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: just think they're in too deep. I think they're in
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: too deep and everybody lives in fear of, well, if
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: I cave to this, then that means this and this
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: and this and it's really sad. I actually have such
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: little respect. I'll say this though. I've gotten on men
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: a lot for not speaking up about this and some
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: of the former NFL players I worked with at ESPN,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: these big, strong football players with, you know, $ 50, $ 100
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: million in the bank. So they're not staying quiet in
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: order to keep their job or to keep money in
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: their pocket or to feed their family. That part, they're
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: already good. They're doing it because I don't want anybody
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: to think that I'm, you know, not supportive of this community.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: So shame on you men who have daughters. I imagine,
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: I guess it just hasn't happened to your daughter yet,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: which is why you're being quiet, but use that God-given platform.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Use it. They're choosing not to. However, that said, How
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: can we be frustrated with men as women if the
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: women won't say it themselves? If those athletes won't say
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: it themselves because they all know every single practice, every
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: single scrimmage in the WNBA and in women's college basketball,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: they've got who there in the scrimmages? They've got men there.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: They've got the male equipment managers practicing against the women
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: because they're bigger, taller, stronger, faster. And so that means
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: they'll be more prepared come game time, game time. Everybody
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: knows this. So if the women won't stand up for themselves,
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: At some point, I understand why men and others are like, okay,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: forget it. Like, they shouldn't have to.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: But if you're going to sit there and be silent
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: in the WNBA, when you know damn well that if
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Ennis Cantor freedom came in there, you would be dominated.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: You would probably get hurt. Yeah. So stop lying to
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: yourselves and, most importantly, to the other young girls out there. Like,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. You got me going.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: I want you going. Let's go. No, I mean, you're right. Listen, I'm,
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: I think I'm older than you are by, by a
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: good bit. I remember when title nine came in and
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: I was, I was seven or eight years old, something
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: like that. And I asked my PE teacher was a female.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: What does this mean? And her answer was, this just
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: means that girls get the same opportunities as boys. And
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: I had two older sisters at the time. I ended
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: up getting a younger sister later. I now as an
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: adult have five daughters, three grandchildren, two daughters, two granddaughters,
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: and you know, a grandson. I've got a wife. I've
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: got sisters. I've got a mother. I always have been, well,
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: of course, they should get the same opportunities. And, of course,
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: they can't play football against us. And, of course, they
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: can't play basketball against us. But they should have their
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: own games, their own leagues, and get the same opportunities. And,
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: by the way, if a female can make it, like
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Annika Stormstram tried to make it on the men's PGA Tour,
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: God bless you. If you can go play in the
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: NBA and you're a woman, go do it. But I
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: noticed that Brittany Griner, who's 6'8, isn't trying out for
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: any NBA team today because she would lose badly. She'd
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: be harmed, as you said, early on. So why have
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: we gotten so dumb in the past 53 years, whatever
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: it is? We've just gotten really stupid because what you
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: just said is so true. A guy with $ 50 million
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: in the bank who's a big, strong guy, probably supports
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: his wife and his kids and everybody else, is afraid
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: to piss off the 10%? Sage, really? Or the 5%
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: that are against this or that are for this?
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Like spineless.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: What are we doing?
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but that is why this is one
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: of those topics that I will not be quiet about.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: And people get so annoyed. But I'm just, I'm not
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: going to be quiet about it. I mean, I feel
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: like I had to fight in this industry as a sportscaster,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: as a woman, and I wasn't even playing, you know.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: And so I understand playing a sport at that time.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: I'm a journalist. So I guess I just, I fought
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: through that because I knew it's bigger than me. There
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: were a couple of women, not many on the national level,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: who came before me because that's how old I am.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: I was born in 1972, so you can do the math.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: But there's so many other women who, of course, have
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: come after me. And I wanted to make that better
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: for them because I didn't want them to feel uncomfortable
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: in the locker room as the only woman and when
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: the athletes are allowed to act like idiots and drop
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: their towel on purpose during an interview to make you
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: super uncomfortable. I was hoping that by the time they
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: get there, it wouldn't happen. So I kept fighting for it.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: And now... so many women are choosing to kind of
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: go backwards. And I really believe this. I believe that
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: silence is compliance. I do. I said it during the
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: COVID stuff. I said it during all the craziness over
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: the last five, six, ten years, frankly. But with this,
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: it is. And when you sit there quietly, you are
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: going to, like, there's some little girls who are going
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: to say, well, why should I even try? Right. You know?
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: I've seen it. I've heard of it. I've heard from parents.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: It has been really Beautiful, though, to see so many people,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: young women, the young female athletes, because the adults in
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: the room refuse to. They have chosen to stand up.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: And to see that, to see the strength in them
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: at 18, 19, 20 years old, I wouldn't have had
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: that strength then. So we are really building, I hope,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: from the stupidity, building strong women, strong feminine women who
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: are going to stay true to themselves. But everybody I
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: think really should be, should be ashamed.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: I think that they take the lead from somebody like you,
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Riley Gaines, our friend, Chloe Cole. I think that people
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: are coming out, they're speaking out, people who really have
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: a voice that should be listened to. And your voice
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: is certainly one that should be, if it's not already
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: being listened to by everybody who's watching, listening now. Go
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: to follow Sage over everywhere at Sage Steel. Let me
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: finish with this. I can't not ask you about Sidney Sweeney.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: I know you've got to go, but Sidney Sweeney is
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: such a a problem for the left, for the, the culture,
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: the woke culture warriors. As I said, I've got five daughters.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: If they said, dad, I want to, I want to
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: be naked and put some sports items over, you know,
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: different places. I would ask them not to. And I'd
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: say that I wouldn't like them to do that, but
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: it's their body. They can do what they want. She
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: does this ad and women in sports want us to
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: believe that she's trying to show the world that she's
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: a representative of an, of a female athlete. Now keep
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: in mind, those who are complaining, don't know what a
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: female athlete is. And those who are complaining have no clue.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: what a man is versus a woman is. They can't
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: define a woman if they want, but they're really, really
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: mad at Sydney Sweeney, who, by the way, is advertising
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: a betting site. She's not trying to pretend she's an athlete.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: What is your take on that? I mean, the outrage
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: from the woke left on this topic, who is perfectly
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: fine with men competing against women, think that Sydney Sweeney
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: is somehow setting women back.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I, again, it just makes me like, oh, oh,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: bang my head against the wall. Like, what is wrong
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: with these people? I'm with you. I have two daughters.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: And if they, if I, they probably wouldn't ask me
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: because they would know better. But if I saw them
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: somehow doing some sort of advertisement like this, like Sydney
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: was sitting on top of a basketball hoop, naked, spread eagle,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't like it. Nope. I don't like it. I
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: don't like it for anybody. And that's not my body.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: My body, my choice. Right, guys? Right. So I feel
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: like Sydney, go girl. You do you. It's interesting to
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: me the jump from the American Eagle, those jeans, and
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: everybody was freaking out about that to this. I mean,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: she just went all in. I would love to know
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: how much money she's making for it. And as much
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: as I don't like it and think it's unnecessary and
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: over the top and borderline inappropriate, that is her right.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: And I support that right.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: How is she denigrating women's sports, though? How exactly are
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: they saying that she... And by the way, athletes every
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: year for ESPN get naked. Every single year. That's the thing.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: The ESPN The Body magazine forever. And so it's fine
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: if it's for an athlete. But it's not okay if
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: it's someone who's just talking about sports. And she's joking,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: by the way. Sports, sports, sports, sports. It's funny. She's
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: acknowledging the fact that this has nothing to do with sports.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: She's just... covering these with something that is used for sport.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: It's just, this is where if I'm a man, I'm like,
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: you women are insane because we can never figure you out,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: figure you out. We can never make you happy. Like
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: what the hell? Now you're crushing another woman just because
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: you don't like how she decided to make some money.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, you sound petty and you sound jealous, right?
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: And you can't pick and choose, ladies. And I also
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: find it fascinating that it's the female athletes who, again,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: some of them complaining about it were actually in the ESPN,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: the body issues, butt naked. You're fine with Sue Bird
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: and Megan Rapinoe when they were a couple posing together naked,
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: like right behind each other. And that's all fine. But
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: because she's not an athlete, she can't do it. Like,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: screw you. And finally, sorry, you get me going every time, Joe.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: I think it's so important to continue to point this
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: stuff out. These are the same women who also have
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: no problem apparently with the fact that Lindsay Clancy murdered
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: her three kids and are out there mourning for her.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: These are the same people that are standing behind the
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: governor of Massachusetts cheering and clapping emotionally as she signed
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: a bill to give women the right to kill their
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: baby up until birth.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: As it's being delivered, you can kill it. Yes.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: So the things that these women choose to celebrate versus
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: not celebrate, or at least not accept, I mean, let's
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: just keep that context. And continue to call out the hypocrisy.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: I think it is so important because it is. Silence
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: is compliance. And then we were doing this show today,
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: Actual Friends, another show I do with Dr. Drew and
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: Julian Michaels and Dave Rubin. And Drew was talking about
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: it and how he sees so many confused men with
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: the work that he does. And there's men actually like,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: you know what? These American women are crazy. I'm going
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: overseas to find a bride. You know, not like your
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: old school, but I mean, these women, we can't figure
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: them out and they're crazy and they're woke and they're
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: fine that this chick killed her baby because of her hormones. Like.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: I get it why you men can't understand us. Just
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: please don't put me in that category.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: And don't put my children in that category. Don't put
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: anybody who's got a sane mind in that category. Sage Steele,
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: go follow her everywhere. Sage, I love having you on.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: You're amazing. You're such a great, powerful voice and your
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: interviews are just top notch. Keep on doing great work, okay?
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for all of your help and
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: your kind words.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: Well, you're very welcome and come back again very soon.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: That's it for this one. Another Unshaken and Unafraid with
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Joe Pax to drop very soon. Make sure you subscribe.